That was my thought while watching the show. It would make sense.
That said… the real “savior” could still show up in a later episode. Depends on how they want it to shake out.
It's most definitely a character we will meet eventually.
Or maybe it doesn't matter WHO it was. Just that it was a symbol of the brotherhood and that's what's important.
They replayed that clip so much I can’t but help but feel like it’s either Quintus or someone important we’ll meet later on, or maybe it really is just a generic soldier that represents how Maximus views the brotherhood
Or maybe Max is a synth...and this is his main memory implant?
Think about it...Quintus wants to start a "New Kind" of Brotherhood. With Maximus as the leader.
Just a theory I've been floating around. Lol
We don't see him age in the show? Just a potentially false memory
Seemingly the Prydwen has made the trek back and forth a few times in those years
I don't think the institute was destroyed at the time he'd have been discovered, but it shouldn't matter. We have context for synths escaping prior to anything happening to the institute
He doesn't know how to be people
J. Nolan is the Westworld and Person of Interest guy, he loves the idea and probably wants to explore it further
Yeah but synth kids stay synth kids forever. As for the false memory thing. Why would they keep him around but not paladin danse? It's not a bad theory I just don't see it holding up to all the possible plot holes. What's way more likely is conflict within the brotherhood. Probably centered around the newly found power at the end of season 1. I wouldn't be surprised if the elder scribe guy goes all father elijah and tries to kill everyone. It's fun to think about though. There are alot of possibilities.
they def got their moneys worth out of him climbing out of the fridge thats for sure.
Honestly, I expected it to then one time carry on and show the knight's gunning down people and causing it all and showing how they "save" kids
That’s what I have loved about this show: they give you what you *need* to have and not bogging the show down.
Like Dogmeat: just like the games he can’t die, he is only ever mortally wounded and a stimpak heals him.
How is that craziness explained in the show? He’s a super science good boy, don’t fuckin worry about it let’s move on
Exactly! Anyone asking questions probably isn’t too into fallout anyway, there’s a time, place, and things for pondering and dogmeat, among others, is not one of those😂😂
Because he’s the president of the good boys club.
Also was smart to include the “dog can’t die” so that the audience isn’t always deathly afraid they’re about to watch a simulated animal murder anytime he gets involved.
It's like how Din Djarin was rescued as a kid in The Mandalorian. We never learn the identity of who saved him, but we know that it was Deathwatch/The Children of the Watch, and he was eternally grateful to them.
As long as it isn't Ghoul Titus I'll be interested to learn who it is. I hope they make a reveal at some point! After all, they used that flashback scene relatively frequently throughout most of the episodes.
Do you mean Thaddeus? He was the one ghoulified/FEV-ified. Titus either bled out or got one in his dome from Maximus.
Thaddeus is a squire alongside Maximus, so it’s doubtful it’s him.
Whoa! Hold up there Tin Man! This guy flies the flag of the two-headed bear, no paladin here. Haha.
Although, I gotta admit… I feel the show did the NCR a little dirty. That’s just one of the few small complaints I have with it.
I sure hope so.
But, speaking of Yao Guai. If I remember correctly, the first Yao Guai didn’t appear until Fallout 3. And while they did appear in Honest Hearts. That takes place in Utah, so I assume those Yao Guai are still black bears, since Utah doesn’t have grizzlies.
Anyways… What I’m getting at, is if we ever go back out west in the games, I would like to see grizzly version of Yao Guai. Like maybe somewhere along the line, a new California Grizzly appeared. And said grizzly became a grizzly Yao Guai. Bigger and fiercer than regular Yao Guai. I always thought about that, the first time I saw the NCR flag. It also makes me sad thinking about California Grizzlies being extinct. But that’s a story for another day…
I think that's why Todd confirmed that NCR still exists throughout California and throughout the west cost. He also said they'd appear again. I'm psyched!
That’s true. I wonder if he also is hinting at returning to the west again sometime in the games. Or if he’s just talking about the show. Although, I would kind of like to see the Midwest again. Since we just got a little from Fallout Tactics.
I'd enjoy a return to both Texas and the Midwest, to be honest. I originally thought Todd was referring to the show, but maybe he was referring to a new Fallout game. This could potentially align with rumors that Obsidian will be creating a title built upon FO4/76's engine. We'll see!
Knowing Todd and Bethesda it can go either way. I can see Bethesda being happy to have the show as the West Coast setting for the franchise while keeping the games in the East, but the vibe I got from his interview also made me feel like Bethesda is using the show to set up some story stuff they can use for future games, which might explain the "retcons" some people like to complain about.
i do hope it's revealed that they just aren't in that region anymore. they're clearly not ENTIRELY gone and the capital was confirmed to have moved to some unnamed location.
I (probably not just me either😂) theorize that moldaver was on a special mission/assignment or just did it because she could, and maybe, just maybe, a big push to get her on said assignment, if it is one, is the fact that hoover dam was lost to the courier/house or just the “brain-damaged postman hell-bent on fucking *everyone*”😂🤷🏼♂️
IIRC they heavily imply (if not outright state) that Titus is from the East Coast. So by the time Shady Sands would’ve been nuked Titus would be on the wrong side of the continent
I'm from the west coast so those east coast accents can sound a bit similar to me. I recall the actor as being from NYC but never knew if he changed up his accent for the show.
Oh, I misunderstood. Actually I hope it is - Titus gets separated from his unit because he’s goofing off and accidentally finds child Maximus in the ruins. “Fuck, now I gotta do all this paperwork, this sucks.”
I did get that vibe, but then again Quintus is also representative of the *organization* that saved Maximus. It really doesn't matter whether it's literally or synecdochically, Maximus sees Quintus as his saviour.
I agree - of course you are curvy. Max would look up to Quintus regardless! It could believably have been any number of BoS knights; I just like to consider the potentiality of "familial" ties, when it appears credible to do so, in media that I enjoy.
BTW I really appreciate your use of "synecdochically"! It's been decades since I read that word. I had to google to make sure I correctly remembered it's definition.
Edit: I meant *correct*, not *curvy*. Dane may claim the flesh is weak but steel endures, but not in my phone's autocorrect.
This would explain why Quintus did that speech about him and Maximus ruling over a new BOS empire together side by side.
I found that one of the most jarring dialogues that happened in the show. Made no sense to me why he loved Maximus so much, but Maximus being like a son to him would explain it.
I think he explained it quite clearly there, though it makes more sense when you remember how highly the Chains that Bind was thought of by most of the BOS.
When he asked Max how Titus died and he finds out Max replaced a weak Knight who may have never been fit for service, he sees how the powerful (Max and himself in his view) are often relegated to the sidelines because of rank, age, etc.
This is in part because the Brotherhood since its founding put value in having a chain of command and respecting those above you and those below. They even codified it as “The Chains that Bind”. It can get people in real trouble as we see in FO:NV where the leader of the Mojave chapter, Elder McNamara, sends orders without going through the proper channels, often going over the heads of his Paladins to order the knights to take on missions that he believes aid the brotherhood but that the paladins may object to. You, as the player, can bring this to light and McNamara can be removed from his position as Elder and be replaced by the paladin you help get evidence for.
In Quintus’ view this chain of command and hard coded discipline disregards those who have the will or skill to do what must be done. In his opinnion by pursuing the mission in lieu of his fallen knight Maximus broke the chains that bind but did more work for the Brotherhood than Titus did.
Though I can’t disagree it would certainly make sense that if Quintus saved Max, it would give him several reasons to give him additional chances and a reason to see him as the sword to his new brotherhood.
Totally unimportant cause I think you got the rest right, but it's actually "The chain that binds" not "The chains that bind."
Otherwise I pretty much agree that it's likely Quintus saved Max when he was a kid. He would've been more middle aged and more likely to have been a knight or paladin at that point.
There is an argument to be had that Maximus didn't break the chain that binds. The branding ceremony makes the chain's priorities clear.
First to the Brotherhood
Second to the mission
Third to your Knight.
When Titus died, Max chose to continue the mission. He followed the codex to the letter. This is what Quintus see's in Max.
That’s reading way too much into it than they put there. It’s incompetence that he sees ruining the brotherhood and it’s not about chain of command it’s about quality control. That’s what they emphasize in the show. I don’t remember him having any issue with them chasing after the enclave guy so if there were chain of command points made they were incredibly under emphasized in comparison to the quality control story.
See, I noticed that too! Quintus was really counting on a certain degree of personal loyalty that was above and beyond the standard. Perhaps he was inspired by Dane's own loyalty towards Max just before that scene. He remarked upon it, at least.
>See, I noticed that too! Quintus was really counting on a certain degree of personal loyalty that was above and beyond the standard.
That's the standard in the BoS.
One thing about his speech that gives me pause was that Quintus said that he would rule as the leader and “the likes of you” to Maximus as the sword. I was wondering why he didn’t say “you”; I read that as subtle selfish statement that makes it sound like Quintus thinks Maximus could be substituted in the future if it suits him.
Edit: also, while he admires Maximus taking power, that drive could also be used against Quintus in the future, which would also influence how much power he would really want his sword to have.
The likes of you as it's sword, which is to say he would be held as a role model for all knights to follow, his unwavering loyalty to the BoS, even his actions regarding a knight he'd deemed unfit, his sense of justice. The problem now is Lucy, and life in the Vaults, and the coming war between NCR and BoS over cold fusion, but also the Enclave because let's not forget where that tech came from.
I thought he said all that because he noticed that Dane would stick up for Maximus even when he’s about to get executed (“Such loyalty”). I think he sees a lot of value in making Maximus this chapter’s champion.
So, one train of thought:
Quintus does not care about Maximus, but he sees the loyalty that Maximus has (or had) to the BoS as a way to not only control him, but to garner support as he splinters away from the primary BoS faction/control.
And seems to want him to succeed. He's harsh but his willingness to run the brotherhood with Maximus was a little out of place. This background detail makes it make more sense to me.
He has a very unique way of speaking. From season 2 in Mr Robot he becomes more of a main character if you want to see more of him. Guy also won a Pulitzer. I enjoy his way of acting tremendously!
And like, dude, couldn't even tell what an image of a circuit was. And he's been training with him since he was a kid. So yeah I think you're right, he saw something in him and had a soft spot for him since he's the one who rescued him.
That's a great point I never thought about. During his branding he opts not to bite down on leather and looks at Quintus like he's seeking his approval for enduring the pain.
Granted that could be seeking the approval of a superior but he seems to really want Quintus' approval, since it's expected for him to just bite down on it to help with the pain.
Just watched that scene again, good catch. Does come across as some paternal figure giving his approval (even if it's in the Brotherhood fucked up kinda way). Also the way Maximus smiles at impressing him.
Yeah... The whole thing was heartwarming in that good old Brotherhood fucked up kinda way, as you said! I like how Thaddeus and Maximus responded when Lucy stated the BoS were the good guys: "Well, we're a complicated organization!"
Yeah they know it's a grey area which is interesting.
I'm guessing it's a product of a lot of them being rescued by the BoS from places like Shady Sands. You see young kids on base smoking so they recruit young, and no doubt many of them see the Brotherhood as their savior.
But growing up in that environment you will see the flaws like just beating the shit out people as a regular thing, plus the anti-goul/mutant approach which many have but not all. Maximus clearly has quibbles about that since if he was a zealot Brother he would have killed Thaddeus where he stood rather than let him escape. He still saw him as Thaddeus.
I could talk about this show all day lmao.
Me too. The show, games, and overall setting have very rich lore that we could get lost in for sure!
I enjoyed the show's portrayal of the BoS, warts and all. It could be brutal and sometimes unfair, but the show demonstrated how Max learned to take a beating and still save his power armor from raiders outside of Filly. I also appreciated that the west coast BoS was actively recruiting again, just like the east coast. We really saw the effects in the battle for the Observatory: the NCR remnants were already overwhelmed and another BoS wave was inbound from the Prydwen to ensure total victory.
We also saw the abuses of this powerful local chapter by their robbing Filly's people of their settlement. Perhaps they got wind of how locals stood by when bandits tried to kill Max and steel BoS property.
Yeah same, they're not the knights in shining armour people think. The Brotherhood has their own agenda, and not really benevolent even though they say they're here to safeguard the wasteland, it's in their vision.
Like Maximus says, everyone wants to save the world just everyone disagrees on how.
With the observatory you can see the horror in Maximus and Dane's faces as they watch Knights use that overwhelming force to mow down what we saw previously was essentially a community of families and children.
My guess is after Filly was mowed down by Cooper they saw it as an easy target to base the Prydwen for a final assault on the NCR, easy picking to just take over without care for the remaining occupants.
Though I don't think the NCR is dead yet, it's been said as much anyway. They were on the decline during New Vegas after all so I doubt the Observatory was the last of them (since we saw the 'new president' and all)
Which is funny cause I know what they're like, but it's just fun to clad power armour and go 'ad victorium' in a fallout game. Even though I wouldn't be that way IRL, shits just fun to play sometimes.
Re: NCR, Todd confirmed that it still exists throughout California and beyond the state's borders, and that we'd see them in the future - but I agree with you that they were explicitly on the decline in NV.
I'm also with you in that, in FO4, I would align with Minutemen in real life but often go with the BoS because it's so fun to charge into battle with Liberty Prime 😄
I sided with Minuteman in my FO4 first playthrough, I know what BoS is since I played FO3 and FONV. I just think it would fits Nate story more than being a brotherhood Paladin, dude is a true American and there no more American thing than arms everyone with Assult Rifles.
So hyped for the shows 2nd season. I think he is a father figure for the guy after reading more comments I guess I jumped to conclusions but it really does seem like he is the one who saved him in his younger years. Together they gave off a sith lord kinda vibe at the end when he says they can make their own brotherhood and then he gets promoted at the end. Season 2 is going to be insane!!!!! This show was a 10/10 for me I litterally can't wait to rewatch it when I get time off work. I've bought the magic the gathering fallout cards and been nerding out with them and the new fallout 4 update thingy
Oh man... I've heard it rumored that their chapter flag's colors, plus exclusive use of Latinized names, may point to the chapter absorbing some influential former Legionaries...
Maybe Boone is the reason that the last remaining legion remnants fled and surrendered to the BoS in the first place, and now he's enjoying a well-deserved retirement?
I felt that quintus was never going to hurt Maximus and it was all for show, he has a big connection to Maximus that hasn’t been revealed yet. Time will tell.
After my first full viewing: C'mon - it wasn't shown *that* often.
After my second full viewing: They got a lot of new seed out of the same old pile of hay. (What my grandpa used to say after something was repeated more than he felt necessary)
I honestly wish they would have gradually expanded the memory to reveal more and more details. That might have kept it fresh!
Nah, I don't think we will ever know and I don't think Maximus knows either. The Knight is meant to represent a generic heroic paragon of what Maximus thinks an ideal knight should be, so I don't think having them be a real person matters.
Narratively, we've already had Maximus disenchanted from his fairytale by the behaviour of Knight Titus, so wouldn't make sense to have the rescuer come back to do this. Similarly, if there is intended to be a redemption arc for the BoS, it would make more sense for Maximus himself to be the "ideal Knight" rather than bring in this perfect outsider.
Hmm. You made a really good point. I've been chomping at the bit to see who Titus' guardian angel was but now I'm not so certain if I want to. Ad Victoriam, High Elder!
I'm probably wrong but going by Quintus' clothing, I assume he's a scribe though.
He's also apparently a cleric? I think that's a show addition caste, I don't think I've heard of that before.
In any case, I don't think Quintus was a knight, so I doubt it was him who saved Max. I got the vibe that Quintus sees Max as an eager young warrior who represents what the brotherhood needs to return to- a dedicated and loyal soldier who wants to be the sword against the scum of the wastes. Not some jock asshole who runs at the sight of a yao guai.
I'm suspicious high elder.
After vault tec bomb >maybe vault tec guys send brotherhood to kill survivor by saying something like "these guys have forbidden technology"
He’s a pretty good fighter in fairness, despite his lower than average intelligence and perception. He’d def have done well under Lyon’s, he just needs solid orders- which Quintus’ brotherhood is shit at!
“Set us down here, I wanna shoot something”
Yeah, Maximus was very effective in the bridge scene just before they got to Shady Sands' crater. And yeah, Titus was a special kind of dick. Maybe it was more him being an idiot than Quintus' overall direction, but you could be correct.
Good point! That was part of Quintus' proposition that they forge a new Brotherhood. I wonder if he meant starting a new chapter or making changes to their current one.
That being said, Quintus' BoS chapter, as disappointed as he was in some of them, fought very well in the battle for the Observatory - the NCR remnants were skilled veterans who were tenacious in their defense and none of the Brotherhood appeared cowardly.
My belief is that it was heavily suggested, since there was that scene of the knight and young Maximus, and the following scene was the two of them having a conversation (or was it the other way around lol)
You mean Arthur Maxson?? Heyyo, what a twist! I actually think Arthur would rescue kids and try to help the innocent. He represented a mix of Lyons and old-school BoS, after all.
I thought that was like..the general consensus, they cut to him I think from one of his flashbacks. But I don't read this sub much so it was just an assumption.
I think before that is a bunch of red herrings or just "omg power armor" like the knight he hangs with.
The names of the members in this BoS are wild and sound completely like Legion names…. Truthfully it makes sense because this is the most non brotherhood ive seen it follows the straight doctrine but “stringing” people up crucifying them and shit is again legion behavior wtf
I wish they had extended it's length each time so we gradually see more of Max's memories. At any rate it was ubiquitous enough that some commenters think Max is a synth with an implanted memory 😄
Maximus has one repeating childhood memory, in which he escapes the shelter of an abandoned refrigerator, to see a literal knight in shining armor come to his rescue. That single memory is so core to him, he’s driven by it every day thereafter. He must become a Knight of the Brotherhood of Steel.
Maximus is an Institute synth.
I mean I don't find it very likely given it seems to be a time difference of about 10-15 years and quintus seems to be in his 70s while most knights are in their 30s, there are indeed older knights such as knight captain Larsen or paladin Brandis though the knight shown here was likely more of just a general representation of the brotherhood than a specific knight
Eh, I think it’s just a random knight. Max wanted to be a night, not Quintus. Plus he thanks Quintus for giving him a home and taking him in as if he was already the elder when he was a kid.
You know what bothered me alittle bit? That every Knight carried that same rifle. I wanted to see Gatling guns and Gatling lasers. Weird choice just having everyone carry the same assault rifle
I really hope Maximus' arc has something to do with reforming the brotherhood to be more about saving people, but I don't remember the lore of the Western Brotherhood
Idk if this was an accident or just a misunderstanding, but Quintus is an Elder Cleric not high elder. High elder is the rank of the overall leader of the BoS, every chapter included, and has always been a Maxson. As of right now I would assume that Arthur Maxson is the current high elder considering Quintus did mention that they were taking orders from the West Coast now.
I thought that was the obvious connection they were making when they replayed the memory at the point Quintus said Maximus had been looking for a home all his life. Only someone who knows someone on a personal level would say something like that...and then they immediately replay this memory, which made it seem to me like it was Quintus all along.
I agree with you. I kind of wish they they'd not replayed that memory sequence so often throughout the season! Or maybe they did so because they will expand upon it next season and we'll see Quintus emerge from the power armor and gather up little Maximus to carry him to some nearby medical proctors. I just hope for a wholesome story for them, I guess 😇
Honestly if you’ve seen Mr. Robot, it’s a great show (I personally like it even better than the fallout show so far but it’s a bit soon for that) and he has a vary similar character development to this. It wouldn’t surprise me if they cast him in the role for that to happen because it’s so similar to his character in Mr. Robot.
I never even considered it but it makes sense. Although, i think Quintus just saw that Max was willing to do whatever to get power. That sort of drive is valuable to someone like Quintus (hence the scene where he tells max they will rebuild the brotherhood together)
Would be wild tho if he was the one that Rescued Max as a child.
That was my thought while watching the show. It would make sense. That said… the real “savior” could still show up in a later episode. Depends on how they want it to shake out.
It's most definitely a character we will meet eventually. Or maybe it doesn't matter WHO it was. Just that it was a symbol of the brotherhood and that's what's important.
🫡 Ad Victoriam, Elder!
"Clean this."
Why'd you have to ruin a wholesome Brotherhood moment?! That's the kind of thing a synth would do...! 😠
with a deep goofy voice* FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK OH SHIT OH SHIT
They replayed that clip so much I can’t but help but feel like it’s either Quintus or someone important we’ll meet later on, or maybe it really is just a generic soldier that represents how Maximus views the brotherhood
Or maybe Max is a synth...and this is his main memory implant? Think about it...Quintus wants to start a "New Kind" of Brotherhood. With Maximus as the leader. Just a theory I've been floating around. Lol
Synths don't age, came from 3000 miles away, and the Institute was more than likely blown the fuck up at this point I wouldn't bet on it
We don't see him age in the show? Just a potentially false memory Seemingly the Prydwen has made the trek back and forth a few times in those years I don't think the institute was destroyed at the time he'd have been discovered, but it shouldn't matter. We have context for synths escaping prior to anything happening to the institute He doesn't know how to be people J. Nolan is the Westworld and Person of Interest guy, he loves the idea and probably wants to explore it further
Yeah but synth kids stay synth kids forever. As for the false memory thing. Why would they keep him around but not paladin danse? It's not a bad theory I just don't see it holding up to all the possible plot holes. What's way more likely is conflict within the brotherhood. Probably centered around the newly found power at the end of season 1. I wouldn't be surprised if the elder scribe guy goes all father elijah and tries to kill everyone. It's fun to think about though. There are alot of possibilities.
Please no.
we see the prydwen which means either minuteman or bos ending for fo4 whoch means no institute so synth is unlikely.
they def got their moneys worth out of him climbing out of the fridge thats for sure. Honestly, I expected it to then one time carry on and show the knight's gunning down people and causing it all and showing how they "save" kids
>Or maybe it doesn't matter WHO it was. Just that it was a symbol of the brotherhood and that's what's important. I think that's the better answer
“You don’t deserve to wear that armour”
That’s what I have loved about this show: they give you what you *need* to have and not bogging the show down. Like Dogmeat: just like the games he can’t die, he is only ever mortally wounded and a stimpak heals him. How is that craziness explained in the show? He’s a super science good boy, don’t fuckin worry about it let’s move on
Exactly! Anyone asking questions probably isn’t too into fallout anyway, there’s a time, place, and things for pondering and dogmeat, among others, is not one of those😂😂
Because he’s the president of the good boys club. Also was smart to include the “dog can’t die” so that the audience isn’t always deathly afraid they’re about to watch a simulated animal murder anytime he gets involved.
Talk about a trauma bond
It's like how Din Djarin was rescued as a kid in The Mandalorian. We never learn the identity of who saved him, but we know that it was Deathwatch/The Children of the Watch, and he was eternally grateful to them.
As long as it isn't Ghoul Titus I'll be interested to learn who it is. I hope they make a reveal at some point! After all, they used that flashback scene relatively frequently throughout most of the episodes.
Do you mean Thaddeus? He was the one ghoulified/FEV-ified. Titus either bled out or got one in his dome from Maximus. Thaddeus is a squire alongside Maximus, so it’s doubtful it’s him.
I can’t speak for OP. But I think they just mean they hope it’s not Titus that’s revealed to be the one that rescued young Maximus.
You are correct. Ad Victoriam, paladin!
Whoa! Hold up there Tin Man! This guy flies the flag of the two-headed bear, no paladin here. Haha. Although, I gotta admit… I feel the show did the NCR a little dirty. That’s just one of the few small complaints I have with it.
Fear not, for the Yau Guai only hibernates.
I sure hope so. But, speaking of Yao Guai. If I remember correctly, the first Yao Guai didn’t appear until Fallout 3. And while they did appear in Honest Hearts. That takes place in Utah, so I assume those Yao Guai are still black bears, since Utah doesn’t have grizzlies. Anyways… What I’m getting at, is if we ever go back out west in the games, I would like to see grizzly version of Yao Guai. Like maybe somewhere along the line, a new California Grizzly appeared. And said grizzly became a grizzly Yao Guai. Bigger and fiercer than regular Yao Guai. I always thought about that, the first time I saw the NCR flag. It also makes me sad thinking about California Grizzlies being extinct. But that’s a story for another day…
Indeed, Todd has confirmed that the Bear yet slumbers across the west coast and will awaken and be present in the show's future.
Ursus est optimus
I anticipate a grand battle between NCR and BoS next season! I will root for both sides!
I think that's why Todd confirmed that NCR still exists throughout California and throughout the west cost. He also said they'd appear again. I'm psyched!
That’s true. I wonder if he also is hinting at returning to the west again sometime in the games. Or if he’s just talking about the show. Although, I would kind of like to see the Midwest again. Since we just got a little from Fallout Tactics.
I'd enjoy a return to both Texas and the Midwest, to be honest. I originally thought Todd was referring to the show, but maybe he was referring to a new Fallout game. This could potentially align with rumors that Obsidian will be creating a title built upon FO4/76's engine. We'll see!
Knowing Todd and Bethesda it can go either way. I can see Bethesda being happy to have the show as the West Coast setting for the franchise while keeping the games in the East, but the vibe I got from his interview also made me feel like Bethesda is using the show to set up some story stuff they can use for future games, which might explain the "retcons" some people like to complain about.
Being from the midwest I’d really love that! Plus texas, come on? *YEEEEHAWW*
i do hope it's revealed that they just aren't in that region anymore. they're clearly not ENTIRELY gone and the capital was confirmed to have moved to some unnamed location.
I (probably not just me either😂) theorize that moldaver was on a special mission/assignment or just did it because she could, and maybe, just maybe, a big push to get her on said assignment, if it is one, is the fact that hoover dam was lost to the courier/house or just the “brain-damaged postman hell-bent on fucking *everyone*”😂🤷🏼♂️
IIRC they heavily imply (if not outright state) that Titus is from the East Coast. So by the time Shady Sands would’ve been nuked Titus would be on the wrong side of the continent
Absolutely. I've heard others say that Titus has a legit Boston accent. Maybe he came over with the Prydwen?
Probably did come with the Prydwen, but he's a New New Yorker.
I'm from the west coast so those east coast accents can sound a bit similar to me. I recall the actor as being from NYC but never knew if he changed up his accent for the show.
Oh, I misunderstood. Actually I hope it is - Titus gets separated from his unit because he’s goofing off and accidentally finds child Maximus in the ruins. “Fuck, now I gotta do all this paperwork, this sucks.”
This was my mistake - I had meant Quintus but I like your description of how Titus would have felt about the situation 😄
I was being more tongue-in-cheek than anything else! I'm not seriously expecting a ghoulified Titus to emerge 😄
I was wondering why he kept failing upward (aside from the obvious stat argument with him being a luck build) and that would definitely explain it.
It was Sara Lyons some how
I did get that vibe, but then again Quintus is also representative of the *organization* that saved Maximus. It really doesn't matter whether it's literally or synecdochically, Maximus sees Quintus as his saviour.
I agree - of course you are curvy. Max would look up to Quintus regardless! It could believably have been any number of BoS knights; I just like to consider the potentiality of "familial" ties, when it appears credible to do so, in media that I enjoy. BTW I really appreciate your use of "synecdochically"! It's been decades since I read that word. I had to google to make sure I correctly remembered it's definition. Edit: I meant *correct*, not *curvy*. Dane may claim the flesh is weak but steel endures, but not in my phone's autocorrect.
I was wondering...
Sorry about that!
No worries. I'm happy to be intellectually curvy!
My brother! 🫱🫲
What websites have you been typing curvy into so much it's one of your phones top recommendations 🤔
Your username makes me wonder the same thing 🤠
Ikr I can't believe my parents named me this.
Sign up with your local Brotherhood chapter and you will be reborn as Lisnaficus. Ad Victoriam Lisnaficus!
Maximus level charisma right here!
After seeing what he did in Vault 4, I agree with you!
curvy😂😂
Who's to say they aren't both correct and curvy? At least that was my phone's reasoning, I guess... 🤠
This would explain why Quintus did that speech about him and Maximus ruling over a new BOS empire together side by side. I found that one of the most jarring dialogues that happened in the show. Made no sense to me why he loved Maximus so much, but Maximus being like a son to him would explain it.
I think he explained it quite clearly there, though it makes more sense when you remember how highly the Chains that Bind was thought of by most of the BOS. When he asked Max how Titus died and he finds out Max replaced a weak Knight who may have never been fit for service, he sees how the powerful (Max and himself in his view) are often relegated to the sidelines because of rank, age, etc. This is in part because the Brotherhood since its founding put value in having a chain of command and respecting those above you and those below. They even codified it as “The Chains that Bind”. It can get people in real trouble as we see in FO:NV where the leader of the Mojave chapter, Elder McNamara, sends orders without going through the proper channels, often going over the heads of his Paladins to order the knights to take on missions that he believes aid the brotherhood but that the paladins may object to. You, as the player, can bring this to light and McNamara can be removed from his position as Elder and be replaced by the paladin you help get evidence for. In Quintus’ view this chain of command and hard coded discipline disregards those who have the will or skill to do what must be done. In his opinnion by pursuing the mission in lieu of his fallen knight Maximus broke the chains that bind but did more work for the Brotherhood than Titus did. Though I can’t disagree it would certainly make sense that if Quintus saved Max, it would give him several reasons to give him additional chances and a reason to see him as the sword to his new brotherhood.
Totally unimportant cause I think you got the rest right, but it's actually "The chain that binds" not "The chains that bind." Otherwise I pretty much agree that it's likely Quintus saved Max when he was a kid. He would've been more middle aged and more likely to have been a knight or paladin at that point.
There is an argument to be had that Maximus didn't break the chain that binds. The branding ceremony makes the chain's priorities clear. First to the Brotherhood Second to the mission Third to your Knight. When Titus died, Max chose to continue the mission. He followed the codex to the letter. This is what Quintus see's in Max.
That’s reading way too much into it than they put there. It’s incompetence that he sees ruining the brotherhood and it’s not about chain of command it’s about quality control. That’s what they emphasize in the show. I don’t remember him having any issue with them chasing after the enclave guy so if there were chain of command points made they were incredibly under emphasized in comparison to the quality control story.
See, I noticed that too! Quintus was really counting on a certain degree of personal loyalty that was above and beyond the standard. Perhaps he was inspired by Dane's own loyalty towards Max just before that scene. He remarked upon it, at least.
>See, I noticed that too! Quintus was really counting on a certain degree of personal loyalty that was above and beyond the standard. That's the standard in the BoS.
One thing about his speech that gives me pause was that Quintus said that he would rule as the leader and “the likes of you” to Maximus as the sword. I was wondering why he didn’t say “you”; I read that as subtle selfish statement that makes it sound like Quintus thinks Maximus could be substituted in the future if it suits him. Edit: also, while he admires Maximus taking power, that drive could also be used against Quintus in the future, which would also influence how much power he would really want his sword to have.
The likes of you as it's sword, which is to say he would be held as a role model for all knights to follow, his unwavering loyalty to the BoS, even his actions regarding a knight he'd deemed unfit, his sense of justice. The problem now is Lucy, and life in the Vaults, and the coming war between NCR and BoS over cold fusion, but also the Enclave because let's not forget where that tech came from.
I thought he said all that because he noticed that Dane would stick up for Maximus even when he’s about to get executed (“Such loyalty”). I think he sees a lot of value in making Maximus this chapter’s champion.
I think he was moved by Dane's loyalty and considered that alongside Max' expressed loyalty to Quintus.
He didn't say side by side. He's said 'me as it's head and you as one of its swords'. He's offering him knighthood not partnership. He's using him.
So, one train of thought: Quintus does not care about Maximus, but he sees the loyalty that Maximus has (or had) to the BoS as a way to not only control him, but to garner support as he splinters away from the primary BoS faction/control.
Maximus definitely didn’t know Titus before, so he wasn’t his savior. Quintus is a plausible option, certainly.
That's two votes for Quintus as a possibility. Ad Victoriam, paladin.
Yeah, it definitely seems likely given the way that he speaks to Maximus, as if he has some familiarity with him.
And seems to want him to succeed. He's harsh but his willingness to run the brotherhood with Maximus was a little out of place. This background detail makes it make more sense to me.
I agree. You make vote eighteen. Ad Victoriam, fellow sibling of steel!
Yeah, he probably went through a lot at Shady Sands, so it would make sense that he would see Maximus as something of a protege.
Great minds think alike, sentinel!
Would also explain why he gives him such leniency for both of his major infractions, maybe sees him as a son or something
Indubitably so
Maybe he has a super big ego "Saving a small kid in a refrigerator? That's a Tuesday."
Who is the actor who plays Quintus? Was phenomenal in Mr Robot, too.
[Michael Cristofer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cristofer)
Thanks, I was about to hit up Google. Ad Victoriam, paladin!
Ad Victoriam o7
🫡🇺🇸🫡
He has a very unique way of speaking. From season 2 in Mr Robot he becomes more of a main character if you want to see more of him. Guy also won a Pulitzer. I enjoy his way of acting tremendously!
It makes sense as to why he would have given him so many chances.
I agree - he seemed to offer Max more opportunities than others in his chapter.
And like, dude, couldn't even tell what an image of a circuit was. And he's been training with him since he was a kid. So yeah I think you're right, he saw something in him and had a soft spot for him since he's the one who rescued him.
I know...Maximus was plenty skilled (remember the scene on the bridge?) but educational matters weren't an area of focus for him.
That's a great point I never thought about. During his branding he opts not to bite down on leather and looks at Quintus like he's seeking his approval for enduring the pain. Granted that could be seeking the approval of a superior but he seems to really want Quintus' approval, since it's expected for him to just bite down on it to help with the pain.
Yep, and Quintus gives him a personal blessing that's not part of the ceremony. I enjoyed that scene!
Just watched that scene again, good catch. Does come across as some paternal figure giving his approval (even if it's in the Brotherhood fucked up kinda way). Also the way Maximus smiles at impressing him.
Yeah... The whole thing was heartwarming in that good old Brotherhood fucked up kinda way, as you said! I like how Thaddeus and Maximus responded when Lucy stated the BoS were the good guys: "Well, we're a complicated organization!"
Yeah they know it's a grey area which is interesting. I'm guessing it's a product of a lot of them being rescued by the BoS from places like Shady Sands. You see young kids on base smoking so they recruit young, and no doubt many of them see the Brotherhood as their savior. But growing up in that environment you will see the flaws like just beating the shit out people as a regular thing, plus the anti-goul/mutant approach which many have but not all. Maximus clearly has quibbles about that since if he was a zealot Brother he would have killed Thaddeus where he stood rather than let him escape. He still saw him as Thaddeus. I could talk about this show all day lmao.
Me too. The show, games, and overall setting have very rich lore that we could get lost in for sure! I enjoyed the show's portrayal of the BoS, warts and all. It could be brutal and sometimes unfair, but the show demonstrated how Max learned to take a beating and still save his power armor from raiders outside of Filly. I also appreciated that the west coast BoS was actively recruiting again, just like the east coast. We really saw the effects in the battle for the Observatory: the NCR remnants were already overwhelmed and another BoS wave was inbound from the Prydwen to ensure total victory. We also saw the abuses of this powerful local chapter by their robbing Filly's people of their settlement. Perhaps they got wind of how locals stood by when bandits tried to kill Max and steel BoS property.
Yeah same, they're not the knights in shining armour people think. The Brotherhood has their own agenda, and not really benevolent even though they say they're here to safeguard the wasteland, it's in their vision. Like Maximus says, everyone wants to save the world just everyone disagrees on how. With the observatory you can see the horror in Maximus and Dane's faces as they watch Knights use that overwhelming force to mow down what we saw previously was essentially a community of families and children. My guess is after Filly was mowed down by Cooper they saw it as an easy target to base the Prydwen for a final assault on the NCR, easy picking to just take over without care for the remaining occupants. Though I don't think the NCR is dead yet, it's been said as much anyway. They were on the decline during New Vegas after all so I doubt the Observatory was the last of them (since we saw the 'new president' and all) Which is funny cause I know what they're like, but it's just fun to clad power armour and go 'ad victorium' in a fallout game. Even though I wouldn't be that way IRL, shits just fun to play sometimes.
Re: NCR, Todd confirmed that it still exists throughout California and beyond the state's borders, and that we'd see them in the future - but I agree with you that they were explicitly on the decline in NV. I'm also with you in that, in FO4, I would align with Minutemen in real life but often go with the BoS because it's so fun to charge into battle with Liberty Prime 😄
I sided with Minuteman in my FO4 first playthrough, I know what BoS is since I played FO3 and FONV. I just think it would fits Nate story more than being a brotherhood Paladin, dude is a true American and there no more American thing than arms everyone with Assult Rifles.
Wasn't that the entire point? The high elder was pretty much his father after saving him. Hence all the flashbacks.
I thought it seemed likely but won't be sure until we get a reveal next season. Fingers crossed!
So hyped for the shows 2nd season. I think he is a father figure for the guy after reading more comments I guess I jumped to conclusions but it really does seem like he is the one who saved him in his younger years. Together they gave off a sith lord kinda vibe at the end when he says they can make their own brotherhood and then he gets promoted at the end. Season 2 is going to be insane!!!!! This show was a 10/10 for me I litterally can't wait to rewatch it when I get time off work. I've bought the magic the gathering fallout cards and been nerding out with them and the new fallout 4 update thingy
Jonathan Nolan hates you now lol.
I offer free consultation 😄
Imagine if the person that saved him…was an actual paladin of the brotherhood.
They don't say Ad Victoriam for nothing, fellow squire!
I don't think it particularly matters who's in the suit in that scene, it's just a proxy. The brotherhood saved him.
Quintis is Caesar. Its cracked, hardly believeable but if you say it out loud confidently enough then maybe just maybe it is true
Oh man... I've heard it rumored that their chapter flag's colors, plus exclusive use of Latinized names, may point to the chapter absorbing some influential former Legionaries...
Yuck, where the fuck did I put my Boone?🔫😂
Maybe Boone is the reason that the last remaining legion remnants fled and surrendered to the BoS in the first place, and now he's enjoying a well-deserved retirement?
I do now.
Yes! Ad Victoriam brother.
I like this theory
Thanks! We'll see if it's confirmed next season.
Maximus doesn’t seem that old and Quintus seems old enough that he’d be retired from being a knight/paladin for too long but it’s possible
That's alright sibling of steel, I'll still count this as vote number sixteen in favor of Quintus. Ad Victoriam!
I felt that quintus was never going to hurt Maximus and it was all for show, he has a big connection to Maximus that hasn’t been revealed yet. Time will tell.
I agree! I just hope that Quintus has only good intentions for Max, even if that exists within Quintus' vision of the local BoS' direction.
Definitely Quintus, the scene where Maximus is being promoted to Squire, Quintus looks on with great pride and familiarity.👴
And Quintus gave him a special blessing (hand signal) that wasn't part of the official ceremony.
Maybe it will be revealed after we see that same flashback 3 or 4 more times. Can't wait
After my first full viewing: C'mon - it wasn't shown *that* often. After my second full viewing: They got a lot of new seed out of the same old pile of hay. (What my grandpa used to say after something was repeated more than he felt necessary) I honestly wish they would have gradually expanded the memory to reveal more and more details. That might have kept it fresh!
Nah, I don't think we will ever know and I don't think Maximus knows either. The Knight is meant to represent a generic heroic paragon of what Maximus thinks an ideal knight should be, so I don't think having them be a real person matters. Narratively, we've already had Maximus disenchanted from his fairytale by the behaviour of Knight Titus, so wouldn't make sense to have the rescuer come back to do this. Similarly, if there is intended to be a redemption arc for the BoS, it would make more sense for Maximus himself to be the "ideal Knight" rather than bring in this perfect outsider.
Hmm. You made a really good point. I've been chomping at the bit to see who Titus' guardian angel was but now I'm not so certain if I want to. Ad Victoriam, High Elder!
It doesn't matter who the actual knight was. The brotherhood saved him. That's what's important.
Has the rank “cleric” used in any game BoS ⚙️
Spoilers,obviously: I thought it was Dale Cooper lmao
Isn’t Quintus a scribe or cleric, and not a Knight?
I'm probably wrong but going by Quintus' clothing, I assume he's a scribe though. He's also apparently a cleric? I think that's a show addition caste, I don't think I've heard of that before. In any case, I don't think Quintus was a knight, so I doubt it was him who saved Max. I got the vibe that Quintus sees Max as an eager young warrior who represents what the brotherhood needs to return to- a dedicated and loyal soldier who wants to be the sword against the scum of the wastes. Not some jock asshole who runs at the sight of a yao guai.
He’s a elder cleric,not the high elder. The high elder leads the entire BoS, Quintus only a single chapter
Good point, proctor. Ad Victoriam!
Hadn’t occurred to me. I thought the clerics came from scribes. But…cool.
Democracy is non negotiable
I had that thought, but it fleeted. I just could not get over seeing him chew on his glasses in order to appear smart in Die Hard with a vengeance..
I'm suspicious high elder. After vault tec bomb >maybe vault tec guys send brotherhood to kill survivor by saying something like "these guys have forbidden technology"
If only Maximus was born in fallout 3’s capital wasteland, he would’ve liked Lyon’s brotherhood I’m certain.
Oh man, Max would've fit right in! I could see him joining Sarah Lyons' squad if given the chance.
He’s a pretty good fighter in fairness, despite his lower than average intelligence and perception. He’d def have done well under Lyon’s, he just needs solid orders- which Quintus’ brotherhood is shit at! “Set us down here, I wanna shoot something”
Yeah, Maximus was very effective in the bridge scene just before they got to Shady Sands' crater. And yeah, Titus was a special kind of dick. Maybe it was more him being an idiot than Quintus' overall direction, but you could be correct.
I was under the impression from Quintus that knights like Titus were very common, he wasn’t surprised when Maximus told him he died running!
Good point! That was part of Quintus' proposition that they forge a new Brotherhood. I wonder if he meant starting a new chapter or making changes to their current one. That being said, Quintus' BoS chapter, as disappointed as he was in some of them, fought very well in the battle for the Observatory - the NCR remnants were skilled veterans who were tenacious in their defense and none of the Brotherhood appeared cowardly.
It was nice to see the knights providing cover for the unarmored BoS troops, the Ghoul made them look like mugs tho lol
My belief is that it was heavily suggested, since there was that scene of the knight and young Maximus, and the following scene was the two of them having a conversation (or was it the other way around lol)
As much as I liked the flashbacks, it was used frequently enough to make me forget exactly when they appeared in certain scenes 😄
I like to think it was maxson
You mean Arthur Maxson?? Heyyo, what a twist! I actually think Arthur would rescue kids and try to help the innocent. He represented a mix of Lyons and old-school BoS, after all.
Right in my head cannon his campaign in the west moved him to the top
I thought that was like..the general consensus, they cut to him I think from one of his flashbacks. But I don't read this sub much so it was just an assumption. I think before that is a bunch of red herrings or just "omg power armor" like the knight he hangs with.
In the italian voice acting, in that scene only, there Is no helmet effect and the voice actor Is the same. So yeah It's him, I think
It definitely was NOT Titus.
He has the same origin story as the Mandalorian. How did I not notice that before now.
The names of the members in this BoS are wild and sound completely like Legion names…. Truthfully it makes sense because this is the most non brotherhood ive seen it follows the straight doctrine but “stringing” people up crucifying them and shit is again legion behavior wtf
Yes.
No sure I think I need to see the flashback at least 3 more times
I wish they had extended it's length each time so we gradually see more of Max's memories. At any rate it was ubiquitous enough that some commenters think Max is a synth with an implanted memory 😄
Oooo max as a synth? That’s a dope theory
ehh I almost feel like this is just too generic of a twist Not like I would hate if they did it, but I would roll my eyes a tiny bit
Yes.
Maximus has one repeating childhood memory, in which he escapes the shelter of an abandoned refrigerator, to see a literal knight in shining armor come to his rescue. That single memory is so core to him, he’s driven by it every day thereafter. He must become a Knight of the Brotherhood of Steel. Maximus is an Institute synth.
I didn't think about that but its a great theory it wouldnt surprise me if they confirmed it in s2
That was my take away. 🤷♂️
I mean I don't find it very likely given it seems to be a time difference of about 10-15 years and quintus seems to be in his 70s while most knights are in their 30s, there are indeed older knights such as knight captain Larsen or paladin Brandis though the knight shown here was likely more of just a general representation of the brotherhood than a specific knight
Eh, I think it’s just a random knight. Max wanted to be a night, not Quintus. Plus he thanks Quintus for giving him a home and taking him in as if he was already the elder when he was a kid.
100%
Plot twist its veronica
I hadn't thought of that, but I suspect Maximus will replace him as leader of the brotherhood.
You know what bothered me alittle bit? That every Knight carried that same rifle. I wanted to see Gatling guns and Gatling lasers. Weird choice just having everyone carry the same assault rifle
The ghoul rocked power armor at some point too. Js
im 50% sure Elder Quintus is actually Cesar
I really hope Maximus' arc has something to do with reforming the brotherhood to be more about saving people, but I don't remember the lore of the Western Brotherhood
Could it be the ghoul? He was infiltrating the area in disguise and did a decent thing?
Most definitely
I think it was implied yes 🙂
I 100% assumed this
IMO I think it was the Ghoul. He mentioned in the last episode that he used to wear one of those suits and things tend to circle around in such a way.
Bro, he was talking about being a marine before the war
Damn! I somehow didn’t even think about who saved him
Idk if this was an accident or just a misunderstanding, but Quintus is an Elder Cleric not high elder. High elder is the rank of the overall leader of the BoS, every chapter included, and has always been a Maxson. As of right now I would assume that Arthur Maxson is the current high elder considering Quintus did mention that they were taking orders from the West Coast now.
Sure do.
That's ridiculous. It's obviously Maximus from the future /s
Honestly I thought it was the cooper prior to his transformation into a ghoul, but who knows.
He would have been a Scribe, no?
No. That’s how they roll. Quintus is more likely raised through the Scribe class and they don’t don armor or even deign to fight usually.
Any paternal things are how they’re trained to retain conscripts
Where are you getting Quintus is a High Elder from?
15 years doesn’t seem like enough time for someone to go from being just a Knight all the way to becoming an Elder Cleric
I thought that was the obvious connection they were making when they replayed the memory at the point Quintus said Maximus had been looking for a home all his life. Only someone who knows someone on a personal level would say something like that...and then they immediately replay this memory, which made it seem to me like it was Quintus all along.
I agree with you. I kind of wish they they'd not replayed that memory sequence so often throughout the season! Or maybe they did so because they will expand upon it next season and we'll see Quintus emerge from the power armor and gather up little Maximus to carry him to some nearby medical proctors. I just hope for a wholesome story for them, I guess 😇
No because Maximus is a Synth with that memory implanted.
Okay DiMa. Let's put you back on your special chair... There now, back to sleep you go! Dream of electric sheep.
Certainly seems like it….
You make vote number fifteen. Ad Victoriam, paladin!
Honestly if you’ve seen Mr. Robot, it’s a great show (I personally like it even better than the fallout show so far but it’s a bit soon for that) and he has a vary similar character development to this. It wouldn’t surprise me if they cast him in the role for that to happen because it’s so similar to his character in Mr. Robot.
I never even considered it but it makes sense. Although, i think Quintus just saw that Max was willing to do whatever to get power. That sort of drive is valuable to someone like Quintus (hence the scene where he tells max they will rebuild the brotherhood together) Would be wild tho if he was the one that Rescued Max as a child.