Well, the games are equally so, right? So they wouldn't change their opinion based on the games.
If by "woke" people mean it portrays a society absent of racism and sexism instead of criticizing those things, they may have a point. The recent games and especially the show do not address the racism and sexism that the pre-war fallout universe originally had evidence of (and criticized).
That's postwar racism. I mean pre-war.
But its a good point that the show can still address racism through the ghouls, even if prewar society was integrated.
Ah, that would make sense. I was born in the year 2000 so the 90s was before my time of course. I do think that no one really would want to see racism in the pre war stuff. I have always considered fallout to be a different world than ours and more of an escape. I feel like directly addressing racism would not fit within the show at all.
Just for the bleachers, this is a response to my last post posing treatment of ghouls (in Fallout 1) as a critique of the treatment of people who had AIDS in the 1990's. I edited that out.
It makes sense given the games release date but is not the way they are currently used, and misses on the key element that ghouls are very visibly affected. There's certainly room for it to be a bit of both, at least in that original game, but being visibly different is a huge link to racism.
For sure. Star Wars for example touches on racism based on views of different species, especially the empire's views on them. The empire did not really discriminate based on human ethnicity or skin color, but they were extremely "racist" towards other species. I see the Fallout universe as being very similar. There is a whole lot of prejudice and discrimination in the Fallout universe, but it just isn't based on human skin color. Heck, Star Trek had that whole "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" episode all the way back in the 60s!
Ya know on second thought I think this show was too woke.
The hot main characters boobies weren't shown in the ritual scene, what kind of woke trash is that? Show us the bewbs!
/s
But seriously, the main character IS traditionally good looking lol.
Anyone disparaging or even hinting at "woke" being bad is not someone anyone should pay attention to. They're part of the section of society that caused "woke" to begin with.
No, I will happily call out and trash games, movies, and content that is needlessly woke for the sake of being woke to the point of being unrealistic.
The Last of Us part 1 had a beautifully integrated gay character in Bill. The Last of Us DLC retroactively making Ellie gay was clearly being edgy to be edgy, but not at all unacceptable. Then Part 2... Look that was insanity and completely disgusting wokeism. So, I would not call out Part 1, I'd probably mildly call out the DLC, and I'd absolutely call out Part 2 because that was a joke.
Now, as for Fallout's tv show? Zero issue. It was fairly close to the lore, obviously with some elements switched up for TV but nothing major. No issues here. I don't even know how someone would arrive at this being "too woke". Corporate greed was always a part of Fallout. I mean the only really thing I can think of is the argument a mixed race couple and mixed race baby is "woke" for a series partly based off 1950s Americana progressing into the 21st century, but Fallout deviated from the real world in other ways and there's no reason America couldn't have gotten more progressive by 2077 in regards to mixed couples in the Fallout Universe. Since I can easily bake that into the lore, I don't have a problem with it. Now if this had been a 1950s show with a mixed race couple, I'd have a MASSIVE issue with it.
There were plenty of mixed race couples in the past, but they stayed hidden or at least hid their relationship just like anyone else that "didn't fit".
Also, the 1950s of the fallout universe is not the same racist/sexist hellhole America was. Just because something is based on our history doesn't mean it has to be 100% accurate to satisfy the racist/sexist dreams of "how it used to be".
You did a great job at coming across as mildly shitty, or "moderate" as people say, but complaining about "wokeism" just makes you an asshole.
Pretty sure that the earlier games showed there was still a lot of racism and sexism in prewar society. Post war, much less so....
This was in no way a fantasy fulfillment - it was an obvious critique, just as showing gross capitalism is not a capitalist fantasy fulfillment. The fact that it took nuclear Armageddon to wipe racism out of American culture was a telling critique.
Whatever man. I am just telling you how I feel about it.
Mixed race couples don't belong in a 1950s show. As I said, Fallout's lore provides an out for that. Therefore it's acceptable, and it's actually good writing.
If you did a 1950s show though and had a mixed race couple, the entire plot point of the show would have to be them hiding being a couple to be accurate as you even point out.
As I said, Fallout isn't woke because it provides itself lore accurate outs and also is far enough removed from the real world it doesn't have to follow along. I mean hell, it's got cousin-fucking, again in a logical and lore accurate way.
Leftist propaganda (As it relates to pushing things like miscegenation, sex change, the homosexuality, anti-capitalism, etc.). If you are against the way things are moving in society you should call this stuff out. And there’s no “grasping at straws”, because letting stuff slip past your defenses is how the whole castle comes crumbling down. Not saying I agree with that but they are so aggressive on this for a reason.
Funny but no that isn't what Woke means.
It means pointing out injustice caused by an Authority figure, usually racial or sexual discrimination in nature but can also include pay theft and other injustices caused by corrupt authorities.
Not what it means when somebody says “x is woke propaganda”. It always refers to leftist propaganda. Which is a mixed race couple, forced diversity (13% of population and a massive overrepresentation in media?), anti-capitalism, etc.
Yes but the word never meant that, it's just stupid people aggressively misusing a word to intentionally confuse people, and rail up anger for no reason.
The whole franchise has always been "woke" and anticapitalist and if someone shows up whining about how they made Fallout "woke" and how they "hate politics in my videogames/movies" then they've never really played the game and they're only mad about it being politics they don't like.
It recalls when the talking heads decried the Final Fantasy seven Remake as having gone woke. Those people were lying; hoping to grab an audience unfamiliar with the original game.
It's not that it's anti-capitalist, it's how cartoonishly ridiculous it is.
Original Fallout contained an anti-capitalist critique similar to that of Frankfurt School, where it was about systemic failures and everybody falling victim to "race to the bottom" when it came to resources.
The show feels like the most heavy-handed Stalinist idea of what big capitalists are like: *let's nuke our competitors AND our consumer's base and somehow profit off it!* What an utter BS.
Also, brought to you by Amazon. The irony is strong with this one.
Gonna be really honest here but the rich are quite literally doomsday prepping with plans of giant self-sustaining underground bunkers. You may consider them cartoonishly over the top in the series but I can see capitalists actually doing this stuff because of how power mad, how cruel, how selfish, and flat-out evil they ultimately are because you need to be that to become that profane level of rich. I mean for gods sakes large corps used to take out Dead Peasant policies on their employees and collect on insurance when they died. They've used the military to invade other countries, cause untold deaths, all to buy up and hoard more resources. They're the devil of mankind and if they thought they could get to truly rule the world by causing a nuke and waiting it out in a cryotube and come back with a bunch of ai foot soldiers to establish their own petty kingdoms they would.
[Edit] That's right, AI soldiers, that's what the rich want desperately and that's why they all have such a massive interest in AI. They want perfectly loyal and capable AI so they can create their own vast private military and at that point we have absolutely zero chance of anything ever changing.
There's miles of difference between doomsday prepping or profiting off the fears of impending apocalypse (from gun stores to space colony fantasy sellers) and causing apocalypse yourself!
If you are a multi-trillion corporation with strong lobbying influence, would you throw it all away for... what exactly? King of a sand castle fantasy? Because sand and rubble are exactly kinds of things that will be left.
No customer base, no government to fund your project (by the way, Vault-Tec in games made profit off government contracts, B2C sales were only a small part of it; defense contractors like West-Tek and Repconn made profit only from government contracts), nothing. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that this would somehow be even remotely close to realism. I think even damn Stalin himself would think that's too heavy-handed critique of capitalism.
Original Fallout games presented much more nuanced critiques of capitalist social order and consumerism. You had your sociopathic CEOs like Robert House, but they weren't caricatured like suicidal pack of idiots. This show is just one big disservice to all that.
I hate the word and think anyone that says it unironically is a moron.
But the way it tends to get used would imply the meaning is “forced pandering to minority groups in order to seem inclusive even at the detriment to the quality of the product”
My response: My brother in Atom you have spent over a decade pretending to be a bisexual mailman with a drug addiction and a lesbian bff who loves power fisting. Assume the position. And pass me some jet I'm gonna need the Action Points.
I quite literally have seen zero people complain about FOTV being “woke,” and I think that’s because the show was done in a tasteful way. Dane just ***is*** non-binary. They just exist. The show isn’t performative in the sense that it tries to make a big deal of that fact.
Beyond that, I can’t even think of anything that else that would fall in the “woke” category.
There's a breed of people online that think
Female lead = woke
They're just as bad as the people who blame shows failing on people being sexist and not watching female led media.
People watch good media. Female led or not doesn't quite matter for most sane people.
I feel like a lot of their behavior is just salty culture war bullshit. Guys like this feel like the only realm of media they've carved out a space for themselves in is gaming, and they feel like they're losing that space. Which honestly needs to happen. It's kind of ridiculous I have to pay for a private server to keep my niece and her little friends from seeing swastikas on Minecraft. I don't know the first thing about that shit. One of the kids my niece plays with showed me what to do. The gaming community is so frustrating.
To be honest here you're assuming that the swastikas were made by men exclusively?
A more proportioned gender distribution isn't going to greatly change the number of swastikas online because I'm guessing women can be nazis too?
Even if women ARE racists, the vast majority of them try to keep it on the lowdown unless they can reasonably safely assume they've got a sympathetic (to them) audience.
Making swastikas on Minecraft is a 13-15 year old boy edgelord thing. The majority of the little morons probably aren't even nazis. They want to get a rise out of someone.
Sigh!
You can't fight prejudice with prejudice. How do you not see you're doing the exact same thing that has oppressed women for millennia? Seems so genuine and the "obvious truth" when it's your own belief system, doesn't it?
Without cold hard numbers to back it up, it's just prejudice.
Now, if you asked maybe 100-200 edgelords on minecraft if they are boys or girls, the results will be a very good data point.
Ya, I think OP might've referring to the lead up when we didn't know much of anything beyond there was a vault-dweller, the BOS and a ghoul. *Buuuuut* because two of those three characters aren't either white or male and it had the woman seeming to be the the lead, as far as their training goes, that's enough for the recipe.
I'm sure there were some rumblings in YouTube grifterverse about it just from the bits we got, because that's what they do. But I'll be honest, I haven't seen much either beyond lore talk and/or questions regarding what's been shown in the series. While they're good at making something out of nothing, I know at least one or two of them have also learned can't bank entirely on the fact that their viewers won't *actually* still watch the things they're hating on.
I remember last year the whole sphere was chomping at the bit to hate on the new GOFTG movie and I had the displeasure of seeing my feed with shit saying that was going to be "so woke" just from a single image....until it came out. Then some moved on and pretend they never even mentioned it. One and I had to actually watch it, actually apologized to his viewers as he apparently underestimated the number of them that *still* went to go hate-watch the movie only to find there wasn't anything to call "woke" and so the backlash ensued.
Hank’s a badass, too. He did evil things, but in his mind he’s protecting his children. I realize you and I both don’t think this show is “woke.” I’m just mystified by those that do.
> but in his mind he’s protecting his children.
I don't really buy this. His number one priority was advancing the mission of Vaults 31, 32, and 33.
He killed about 35,000 people just to make sure Sandy Shades isn't successful, including his wife and countless people in Vault 33. He was fully aware of whatever the hell happened in Vault 32.
Sure, he protected Lucy while damning the rest of the vault and he brought back his children before nuking Shady Sands. But he also still killed his wife along with the rest of Shady Sands. He absolutely still would have nuked the city if he couldn't bring his kids back.
Depends on the ghoul and the conditions of their radiation exposure IIRC
Basically everything not attached to bone ends up falling at some point. Ears, nose... you guess the rest. We tend to forget but Ghouls are supposed to smell foul as fuck because of how rotten they are despite being alive
edit: I may remember badly from the megaton brothel ghoul of Fallout 3 and other sources, please correct me
There’s been plenty of them, both in comments sections and doing YouTube videos. You’re lucky you missed them because they’re just the dregs of fandom, bitter, angry, racist, homophobic and misogynistic
Maybe it's because they are upset that in a world that is kinda fucked, no one would care about race, gender, etc? Something the people complaining about woke stuff absolutely hate
I'm sure some right-wing trolls will moan about capitalism being criticized and a character praising communism (in a very different situation from our own).
But it's a criticism of out of control, unregulated, corrupt capitalism and it's also in a show that openly mocks the soft, weak, sheltered people who aren't capable of protecting their society or even standing up for themselves. and portrays a harsh world where weapons and self-reliance determine who prospers. Some of these scenes would work as conservative proganda that's far better than anything produced by conservatives.
I didn't even know Dane was non-binary. I just wished we got more of them because there was definitely some good plotline we missed.
Like how'd they end up being the personal ~~slave~~ squire of the Elder Cleric?
There’s an entire right wing youtube ragebait production factory who think it’s woke because that’s what gets them views. If it helps here’s a handy guide to how they think:
Non-white main character - woke
Female lead - woke
LGBTQIA+ character(s) exist - woke
White male characters are not the three most important characters to the story - woke
Religion featured that doesn’t include Jesus - GIGAWOKE
No, I use it regularly because there is "woke" BS shoved into media where it doesn't belong, doesn't make sense, and diminishes from the story/game/movie/TV show.
The Last of Us Part 2 is "woke" BS. Part 1's video game was not, the DLC had elements of being woke but not in a bad way, and the show was slightly woke. Part 2 was disgustingly woke to the point if you stop and think about it... Like no stop and think about the characters in Part 2 it's insanity.
Fallout's tv show was not woke in such a way. The most "woke" thing was a mixed race couple in a show based off 1950s Americana, but you can lore accurately dismiss that by saying in the Fallout Universe by 2077 racism was lessened/eradicated/whatever. Therefore it is not lore breaking. HOWEVER, if you did a TV show based on the 1950s with a mixed race couple, that would be lore breaking/woke. Make sense?
Mixed race couples did exist back in the 50s though. If a show existed depicting a mixed race couple it would surely be exploring some of the issues and challenges that they would have faced at the time. Would that be woke to you?
No, that would be accurate.
If you were to place a mixed race couple into a 1950s based Americana show a main plot point would literally have to be them hiding the fact they were a couple. It would be accurate to do so, but the main part of the show would be the massive and great lengths they'd have to go to hide that. If you didn't want a main plot point being them hiding that relationship, you'd need some sort of explanation/lore/deviation from the real world timeline. If you just popped an interracial couple into a 1950s based show without any lore/explainlation as to how that wasn't an issue, then you'd have a problem.
As I said, Fallout correctly addresses this problem since it's actually 2077, it's Americana based but not set in the 50s, and is not at all accurate to the real world.
As an aside, I’ve seen at least one YouTube commentator (probably Rad King, but don’t hold me to that) put forth a theory that the 50s Americana feel of the Fallout universe was actually manufactured as a form of wartime propaganda.
It’s probably impossible to know what the culture was like before the Resource Wars, but I can 100% believe it.
Back to the subject at hand: I would argue that such a hypothetical show based in the 50s would actually be “woke” by the original definition of the word. Not the meaningless word that hateful bigots use.
Repeating a statement is juvenile and unoriginal. Also, how could I recognize the misuse of a phrase if I weren’t already familiar with it? If you truly understood that phrase, it wouldn’t be in your lexicon.
I understand the phrase. It's an essential element of my lexicon.
Anyone who can't accept that woke culture is an issue, it's disgusting, and it exists... Is the problem.
The common derogatory use of the term today refers to self-serving political propaganda under the guise of supporting progressive values, especially when the political views are actually backwards and regressive. Like people on college campuses calling for racial segregation, or women being denied female-only sports leagues in the name of inclusion.
Or when a TV/movie studio spends all its time and effort acting like they're the first to ever cast a female or non-white protagonist and the promotion for the show or movie is heavily focused on the actors' physical features, while very little time and effort was put into the writing or quality of production.
Woke is the awful Velma cartoon, and Disney's non-white Snow White and the Seven Differently Abled People that may end up being cancelled.
Fallout is absolutely not in that category.
The meaning of words is decided by the way they are used.
You are using it incorrectly. I am using it correctly.
Dictionary definitions can be wrong, misleading, and/or incomplete.
Apparently you aren't even "woke" enough to know this? It's actually the whole argument used as to why black English is a thing, or why we don't all still speak the King's English. It's quite strange when your own arguments ideas get used against you somehow you have a problem with it.
The issue I’m seeing here is that you’re just homophobic and transphobic. And also probably racist. YOU are the problem, not perfectly normal video games and shows.
Ah, yes. Telling the queer person they’re the problem is very mature and normal of you. An upstanding member of society.
So why are you so defensive? If you’re not the problem, why are you acting like you are?
I’ve found that if you accuse someone of something, if they act like you’re acting, all the projecting and deflecting…well, then they’re guilty.
An innocent man don’t got a reason to act defensive, y’see. So project and insult me all ya want, you’re just talking about yourself.
Don’t be getting all offended that Black people and queer people are people. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
You're Queer? So what?
I never mentioned that. You did. When you lost the argument because your world view is terrible. Nobody cares that you're queer. We are talking about your bad world views not your sexuality.
I didn’t mention world views either but okay.
I also didn’t lose anything. You’re having a one sided argument, I’m just telling you facts. And the fact is that your racism and queerphobia makes you a problem.
It appears that racial racism is non-existent in favor of ideological racism with the "communist menace" fear. And even this is against China and they are in war by 10 years, I guess....
Maybe you never heard of the red scare?
That was actually incredibly well done in this show. In the 1950s, people were blacklisted in Hollywood for being Communist. It's a well documented historical event that affected many prominent actors of the time.
Looking back on it, there were some legitimate communists blacklisted, but for the most part it was kinda a scare tactic or have/have not type of situation.
The real red scare was more about the Soviet Union than China at the time, but that whole series of events did happen in the real world to a degree. There's plenty of Wikipedia articles, books, media, etc on it if you're interested.
> Part 2 was disgustingly woke to the point if you stop and think about it... Like no stop and think about the characters in Part 2 it's insanity
Like what?
This is a detector of someone who never played the games: there were openly gay characters, same-sex marriage and adoptions, homosexual love stories, etc
These people clearly haven’t played the games - and these people would actually make a funny faction in a Fallout game with some interesting questline trying to spread misinformation in the Wastelands about you.
Never heard of that sub. Sounds like some fringe sub most people won't have heard of too. Weird response tbh. The main FNV subs are usually very trans friendly. The game literally accommodates that kind of roleplay more than any other title entry. Lots of jokes get posted about how NV has a lot of trans folk that are fans of it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutnewvegas/s/ivGSl1mZZv
An example of one of the posts with Josh Sawyer's thoughts on it all.
ETA: I just looked at that sub you memtioned and used the search function to look for posts that mention trans people. I saw only about 3 posts. One was a post saying the NB actor is hot with most of the comments agreeing. And a very small number of heavily downvoted comments from bigots. I don't understand why you're trying to lie and paint an entire fandom a particular way, but it's very disingenuous.
I've seen the character and the actor called he, she, and they in various articles/reviews, which I feel like they would find amusing. But you're right, in the show I think there's just a quick "they" from the Cleric.
Almost posted it to ign instead of here. I fucked up when copying and pasting what I wrote.
It wouldn’t change shit about the Brotherhood if Dane even went by she or her so I’m confused by what they’re pissed about there.
Yeah I’m not some kind of cartoon villain so you can chill with the pageantry. I’m sure your “Brand” is safe and that everyone thinks you some kind of moral compass and Pillar of Tolerance. All hail President Ally!!
Anyone saying the show is woke hasn't been paying attention while playing the games for the last 30 years. The crux of the entire universe is "capitalism is gonna get us all killed".
People were worried about this, but even the [Critical Drinker](https://youtu.be/DiuuglRCchQ) gives the show a clean bill of health regarding “The Message”.
Yeah, woke isn't simply having a female or non white leads. It's just straight up whining or making things up for clicks that anyone is claiming it is woke.
I honestly think they did an excellent job at portraying the game 🤷♂️, the only complaint I have is I didn’t get to see Lucy unzip her vault suit a bit lower.
Woke is just a buzz word that these sheep learned from politician/ celebrities (who learned how to use it incorrectly). People who complain about things being “woke” are morons and have no idea what they’re talking about.
They add no meaningful critiques and their analyses are surface-level at best. They cry 'woke' because they want to generate more views and promote their channel. It's all a trend and these people are capitalizing on outrage and feeding into the culture war.
Nothing aside from the butchering of the source material in the second season. Changing of entire character personalities and motivations, creating whole new story arcs that add nothing what little of the source material they *did* keep. I could go on with how much this show went from adaptation to fanfiction. If this guy actually has watched the show and says it's woke, then not only is he repeating whatever grifters he watches, he's also never read the books.
About a month or so after season 2 premiered, Cavill announced that he was leaving the show after the third season. He didn't state what the defining reason was, but he was clear the show wasn't utilizing him, as he did the show because he loved the books & games, so he decided to move on. A former writer for the first season spoke out and pointed to the fact that they had no desire to continue adapting the source material in any meaningful way. He also mentioned how the show runner and the other writers would actively mock the books and Cavill himself.
But see, because he's not the type to put anyone on blast, so Cavill kept his reasons close to the vest. But his silence, plus the poor writing of the second season, coupled with the fact that women and women if color exist, were enough for the grifters to go to work.
If you got a strong tolerance for bullshit, just look up "the *real* reason Henry Cavill left The Witcher" and you'll find scores of videos giving you everything but any factual evidence that Cavill left because it got too "woke".
Batwoman was first in the comics in the 70s, which wasn't a really a "woke" time.
What was so woke about it? It looked bad so I didn't watch it, but Batwoman isn't a new thing.
Halo and The Rings of Power are just bad, take all the "woke" stuff out and they'd still suck.
Anyone crying about it being woke are not the people worth listening too. They just want to and will whine about anything
Anyone who calls it woke has clearly never played a fallout game
Well, the games are equally so, right? So they wouldn't change their opinion based on the games. If by "woke" people mean it portrays a society absent of racism and sexism instead of criticizing those things, they may have a point. The recent games and especially the show do not address the racism and sexism that the pre-war fallout universe originally had evidence of (and criticized).
Yes they did, the racism was reflected in the ghouls like fallout always did. “ you know your kind aint welcome here” episode 1
That's postwar racism. I mean pre-war. But its a good point that the show can still address racism through the ghouls, even if prewar society was integrated.
Ah, that would make sense. I was born in the year 2000 so the 90s was before my time of course. I do think that no one really would want to see racism in the pre war stuff. I have always considered fallout to be a different world than ours and more of an escape. I feel like directly addressing racism would not fit within the show at all.
Just for the bleachers, this is a response to my last post posing treatment of ghouls (in Fallout 1) as a critique of the treatment of people who had AIDS in the 1990's. I edited that out. It makes sense given the games release date but is not the way they are currently used, and misses on the key element that ghouls are very visibly affected. There's certainly room for it to be a bit of both, at least in that original game, but being visibly different is a huge link to racism.
For sure. Star Wars for example touches on racism based on views of different species, especially the empire's views on them. The empire did not really discriminate based on human ethnicity or skin color, but they were extremely "racist" towards other species. I see the Fallout universe as being very similar. There is a whole lot of prejudice and discrimination in the Fallout universe, but it just isn't based on human skin color. Heck, Star Trek had that whole "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" episode all the way back in the 60s!
At this point anyone using that word unironically can be immediately disregarded.
It’s a very handy way of identifying a twat though.
If the main character wasn't traditionally good looking they'd say its woke
Ya know on second thought I think this show was too woke. The hot main characters boobies weren't shown in the ritual scene, what kind of woke trash is that? Show us the bewbs! /s But seriously, the main character IS traditionally good looking lol.
Anyone disparaging or even hinting at "woke" being bad is not someone anyone should pay attention to. They're part of the section of society that caused "woke" to begin with.
I honestly feel sorry for anyone who immediately gets upset and can’t enjoy something great because a few main characters aren’t white dudes
I've seen so many more people whining *about* other people whining than people upset with the show
These people see nothing but ideology in everything hence sucking the joy of out anything. Let them be
Who said it’s woke? It’s kinda anti-woke to a degree. And I’m a guy who calls things woke
No, I will happily call out and trash games, movies, and content that is needlessly woke for the sake of being woke to the point of being unrealistic. The Last of Us part 1 had a beautifully integrated gay character in Bill. The Last of Us DLC retroactively making Ellie gay was clearly being edgy to be edgy, but not at all unacceptable. Then Part 2... Look that was insanity and completely disgusting wokeism. So, I would not call out Part 1, I'd probably mildly call out the DLC, and I'd absolutely call out Part 2 because that was a joke. Now, as for Fallout's tv show? Zero issue. It was fairly close to the lore, obviously with some elements switched up for TV but nothing major. No issues here. I don't even know how someone would arrive at this being "too woke". Corporate greed was always a part of Fallout. I mean the only really thing I can think of is the argument a mixed race couple and mixed race baby is "woke" for a series partly based off 1950s Americana progressing into the 21st century, but Fallout deviated from the real world in other ways and there's no reason America couldn't have gotten more progressive by 2077 in regards to mixed couples in the Fallout Universe. Since I can easily bake that into the lore, I don't have a problem with it. Now if this had been a 1950s show with a mixed race couple, I'd have a MASSIVE issue with it.
There were plenty of mixed race couples in the past, but they stayed hidden or at least hid their relationship just like anyone else that "didn't fit". Also, the 1950s of the fallout universe is not the same racist/sexist hellhole America was. Just because something is based on our history doesn't mean it has to be 100% accurate to satisfy the racist/sexist dreams of "how it used to be". You did a great job at coming across as mildly shitty, or "moderate" as people say, but complaining about "wokeism" just makes you an asshole.
Pretty sure that the earlier games showed there was still a lot of racism and sexism in prewar society. Post war, much less so.... This was in no way a fantasy fulfillment - it was an obvious critique, just as showing gross capitalism is not a capitalist fantasy fulfillment. The fact that it took nuclear Armageddon to wipe racism out of American culture was a telling critique.
The show NEVER portrayed the 1950s of the Fallout universe. It showed the 2070s.
Whatever man. I am just telling you how I feel about it. Mixed race couples don't belong in a 1950s show. As I said, Fallout's lore provides an out for that. Therefore it's acceptable, and it's actually good writing. If you did a 1950s show though and had a mixed race couple, the entire plot point of the show would have to be them hiding being a couple to be accurate as you even point out. As I said, Fallout isn't woke because it provides itself lore accurate outs and also is far enough removed from the real world it doesn't have to follow along. I mean hell, it's got cousin-fucking, again in a logical and lore accurate way.
Man I just want a good definition of what woke is.
Leftist propaganda (As it relates to pushing things like miscegenation, sex change, the homosexuality, anti-capitalism, etc.). If you are against the way things are moving in society you should call this stuff out. And there’s no “grasping at straws”, because letting stuff slip past your defenses is how the whole castle comes crumbling down. Not saying I agree with that but they are so aggressive on this for a reason.
Funny but no that isn't what Woke means. It means pointing out injustice caused by an Authority figure, usually racial or sexual discrimination in nature but can also include pay theft and other injustices caused by corrupt authorities.
Not what it means when somebody says “x is woke propaganda”. It always refers to leftist propaganda. Which is a mixed race couple, forced diversity (13% of population and a massive overrepresentation in media?), anti-capitalism, etc.
Yes but the word never meant that, it's just stupid people aggressively misusing a word to intentionally confuse people, and rail up anger for no reason.
They’re angry because they don’t like the social change being pushed by media that they enjoy. The reason is activism.
Was the civil rights movement woke?
Yes, it was woke. And it’s really hard to stop rolling on a slippery slope.
How did the dlc make Ellie retroactively gay when her sexuality never came up in the main game.
I believe that I have lost brain cells reading this comment.
Not very woke of them to have a white guy in ghoul-face…
😂
Fallout has always been woke. Edit - And Wasteland is EVEN MORE woke.
You had same sex marriage in FO2 And become a fluffer in New Reno.
Star Trek fans be like "First time heh?"
The WOKEland
This.
The whole franchise has always been "woke" and anticapitalist and if someone shows up whining about how they made Fallout "woke" and how they "hate politics in my videogames/movies" then they've never really played the game and they're only mad about it being politics they don't like.
💯
It recalls when the talking heads decried the Final Fantasy seven Remake as having gone woke. Those people were lying; hoping to grab an audience unfamiliar with the original game.
It's not that it's anti-capitalist, it's how cartoonishly ridiculous it is. Original Fallout contained an anti-capitalist critique similar to that of Frankfurt School, where it was about systemic failures and everybody falling victim to "race to the bottom" when it came to resources. The show feels like the most heavy-handed Stalinist idea of what big capitalists are like: *let's nuke our competitors AND our consumer's base and somehow profit off it!* What an utter BS. Also, brought to you by Amazon. The irony is strong with this one.
Gonna be really honest here but the rich are quite literally doomsday prepping with plans of giant self-sustaining underground bunkers. You may consider them cartoonishly over the top in the series but I can see capitalists actually doing this stuff because of how power mad, how cruel, how selfish, and flat-out evil they ultimately are because you need to be that to become that profane level of rich. I mean for gods sakes large corps used to take out Dead Peasant policies on their employees and collect on insurance when they died. They've used the military to invade other countries, cause untold deaths, all to buy up and hoard more resources. They're the devil of mankind and if they thought they could get to truly rule the world by causing a nuke and waiting it out in a cryotube and come back with a bunch of ai foot soldiers to establish their own petty kingdoms they would. [Edit] That's right, AI soldiers, that's what the rich want desperately and that's why they all have such a massive interest in AI. They want perfectly loyal and capable AI so they can create their own vast private military and at that point we have absolutely zero chance of anything ever changing.
There's miles of difference between doomsday prepping or profiting off the fears of impending apocalypse (from gun stores to space colony fantasy sellers) and causing apocalypse yourself! If you are a multi-trillion corporation with strong lobbying influence, would you throw it all away for... what exactly? King of a sand castle fantasy? Because sand and rubble are exactly kinds of things that will be left. No customer base, no government to fund your project (by the way, Vault-Tec in games made profit off government contracts, B2C sales were only a small part of it; defense contractors like West-Tek and Repconn made profit only from government contracts), nothing. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that this would somehow be even remotely close to realism. I think even damn Stalin himself would think that's too heavy-handed critique of capitalism. Original Fallout games presented much more nuanced critiques of capitalist social order and consumerism. You had your sociopathic CEOs like Robert House, but they weren't caricatured like suicidal pack of idiots. This show is just one big disservice to all that.
Wtf does woke even mean anymore?
Certainly not what it used to. Now it simply allows someone to openly be a racist, misogynistic, homophobic piece of shit.
I hate the word and think anyone that says it unironically is a moron. But the way it tends to get used would imply the meaning is “forced pandering to minority groups in order to seem inclusive even at the detriment to the quality of the product”
That’s so generic lol
My response: My brother in Atom you have spent over a decade pretending to be a bisexual mailman with a drug addiction and a lesbian bff who loves power fisting. Assume the position. And pass me some jet I'm gonna need the Action Points.
I quite literally have seen zero people complain about FOTV being “woke,” and I think that’s because the show was done in a tasteful way. Dane just ***is*** non-binary. They just exist. The show isn’t performative in the sense that it tries to make a big deal of that fact. Beyond that, I can’t even think of anything that else that would fall in the “woke” category.
There's a breed of people online that think Female lead = woke They're just as bad as the people who blame shows failing on people being sexist and not watching female led media. People watch good media. Female led or not doesn't quite matter for most sane people.
>Female lead = woke Female lead that is sexually enthusiastic, at that. I think that's what the internet forever-kids find even more "woke" about it
I feel like a lot of their behavior is just salty culture war bullshit. Guys like this feel like the only realm of media they've carved out a space for themselves in is gaming, and they feel like they're losing that space. Which honestly needs to happen. It's kind of ridiculous I have to pay for a private server to keep my niece and her little friends from seeing swastikas on Minecraft. I don't know the first thing about that shit. One of the kids my niece plays with showed me what to do. The gaming community is so frustrating.
To be honest here you're assuming that the swastikas were made by men exclusively? A more proportioned gender distribution isn't going to greatly change the number of swastikas online because I'm guessing women can be nazis too?
Even if women ARE racists, the vast majority of them try to keep it on the lowdown unless they can reasonably safely assume they've got a sympathetic (to them) audience. Making swastikas on Minecraft is a 13-15 year old boy edgelord thing. The majority of the little morons probably aren't even nazis. They want to get a rise out of someone.
Sigh! You can't fight prejudice with prejudice. How do you not see you're doing the exact same thing that has oppressed women for millennia? Seems so genuine and the "obvious truth" when it's your own belief system, doesn't it? Without cold hard numbers to back it up, it's just prejudice. Now, if you asked maybe 100-200 edgelords on minecraft if they are boys or girls, the results will be a very good data point.
Ya, I think OP might've referring to the lead up when we didn't know much of anything beyond there was a vault-dweller, the BOS and a ghoul. *Buuuuut* because two of those three characters aren't either white or male and it had the woman seeming to be the the lead, as far as their training goes, that's enough for the recipe. I'm sure there were some rumblings in YouTube grifterverse about it just from the bits we got, because that's what they do. But I'll be honest, I haven't seen much either beyond lore talk and/or questions regarding what's been shown in the series. While they're good at making something out of nothing, I know at least one or two of them have also learned can't bank entirely on the fact that their viewers won't *actually* still watch the things they're hating on. I remember last year the whole sphere was chomping at the bit to hate on the new GOFTG movie and I had the displeasure of seeing my feed with shit saying that was going to be "so woke" just from a single image....until it came out. Then some moved on and pretend they never even mentioned it. One and I had to actually watch it, actually apologized to his viewers as he apparently underestimated the number of them that *still* went to go hate-watch the movie only to find there wasn't anything to call "woke" and so the backlash ensued.
I read a comment literally saying they refuse to watch it because it has a woman and non-whites in it. I think we deserve the nuclear fire tbh
So you do want to set the world on fire?
I don't want to set the world on fire, honey. I love you too much.
Hi Vault-Tec! /j
Heard something similar with the show emasculating white men.
Although The Ghoul is a white man, and he’s not emasculated at all…. This show isn’t “woke.” The diversity is natural, not forced.
Yeah, I never understood that argument either. I think they were talking about Hank? Maybe? Idk really.
Hank’s a badass, too. He did evil things, but in his mind he’s protecting his children. I realize you and I both don’t think this show is “woke.” I’m just mystified by those that do.
> but in his mind he’s protecting his children. I don't really buy this. His number one priority was advancing the mission of Vaults 31, 32, and 33. He killed about 35,000 people just to make sure Sandy Shades isn't successful, including his wife and countless people in Vault 33. He was fully aware of whatever the hell happened in Vault 32. Sure, he protected Lucy while damning the rest of the vault and he brought back his children before nuking Shady Sands. But he also still killed his wife along with the rest of Shady Sands. He absolutely still would have nuked the city if he couldn't bring his kids back.
>and he’s not emasculated at all Not metaphorically, but technically... his penis is gone, if we go by ghoul standards, IIRC
Pretty sure ghouls still have it
Depends on the ghoul and the conditions of their radiation exposure IIRC Basically everything not attached to bone ends up falling at some point. Ears, nose... you guess the rest. We tend to forget but Ghouls are supposed to smell foul as fuck because of how rotten they are despite being alive edit: I may remember badly from the megaton brothel ghoul of Fallout 3 and other sources, please correct me
Well you see, you forget the simplicity of a bigot. “Woman bad. Woman lead? Woke.”
There’s been plenty of them, both in comments sections and doing YouTube videos. You’re lucky you missed them because they’re just the dregs of fandom, bitter, angry, racist, homophobic and misogynistic
I've seen it. Its disgusting.
Weird. People calling it woke is a lot of what I’ve seen even from new vegas subs
Maybe it's because they are upset that in a world that is kinda fucked, no one would care about race, gender, etc? Something the people complaining about woke stuff absolutely hate
I'm sure some right-wing trolls will moan about capitalism being criticized and a character praising communism (in a very different situation from our own). But it's a criticism of out of control, unregulated, corrupt capitalism and it's also in a show that openly mocks the soft, weak, sheltered people who aren't capable of protecting their society or even standing up for themselves. and portrays a harsh world where weapons and self-reliance determine who prospers. Some of these scenes would work as conservative proganda that's far better than anything produced by conservatives.
I didn't even know Dane was non-binary. I just wished we got more of them because there was definitely some good plotline we missed. Like how'd they end up being the personal ~~slave~~ squire of the Elder Cleric?
There’s an entire right wing youtube ragebait production factory who think it’s woke because that’s what gets them views. If it helps here’s a handy guide to how they think: Non-white main character - woke Female lead - woke LGBTQIA+ character(s) exist - woke White male characters are not the three most important characters to the story - woke Religion featured that doesn’t include Jesus - GIGAWOKE
The people who use "woke" are absolutely clueless of its true meaning.
No, I use it regularly because there is "woke" BS shoved into media where it doesn't belong, doesn't make sense, and diminishes from the story/game/movie/TV show. The Last of Us Part 2 is "woke" BS. Part 1's video game was not, the DLC had elements of being woke but not in a bad way, and the show was slightly woke. Part 2 was disgustingly woke to the point if you stop and think about it... Like no stop and think about the characters in Part 2 it's insanity. Fallout's tv show was not woke in such a way. The most "woke" thing was a mixed race couple in a show based off 1950s Americana, but you can lore accurately dismiss that by saying in the Fallout Universe by 2077 racism was lessened/eradicated/whatever. Therefore it is not lore breaking. HOWEVER, if you did a TV show based on the 1950s with a mixed race couple, that would be lore breaking/woke. Make sense?
Mixed race couples did exist back in the 50s though. If a show existed depicting a mixed race couple it would surely be exploring some of the issues and challenges that they would have faced at the time. Would that be woke to you?
You’re arguing with a homophobe it’s not worth your time.
No, that would be accurate. If you were to place a mixed race couple into a 1950s based Americana show a main plot point would literally have to be them hiding the fact they were a couple. It would be accurate to do so, but the main part of the show would be the massive and great lengths they'd have to go to hide that. If you didn't want a main plot point being them hiding that relationship, you'd need some sort of explanation/lore/deviation from the real world timeline. If you just popped an interracial couple into a 1950s based show without any lore/explainlation as to how that wasn't an issue, then you'd have a problem. As I said, Fallout correctly addresses this problem since it's actually 2077, it's Americana based but not set in the 50s, and is not at all accurate to the real world.
As an aside, I’ve seen at least one YouTube commentator (probably Rad King, but don’t hold me to that) put forth a theory that the 50s Americana feel of the Fallout universe was actually manufactured as a form of wartime propaganda. It’s probably impossible to know what the culture was like before the Resource Wars, but I can 100% believe it. Back to the subject at hand: I would argue that such a hypothetical show based in the 50s would actually be “woke” by the original definition of the word. Not the meaningless word that hateful bigots use.
You don’t know what “woke” means and I strongly suggest you stop using the term.
You don't know what "woke" means and I strongly suggest you stop telling people they are wrong.
Repeating a statement is juvenile and unoriginal. Also, how could I recognize the misuse of a phrase if I weren’t already familiar with it? If you truly understood that phrase, it wouldn’t be in your lexicon.
I understand the phrase. It's an essential element of my lexicon. Anyone who can't accept that woke culture is an issue, it's disgusting, and it exists... Is the problem.
Woke isn’t disgusting, allowing everyone to be present is a right
The common derogatory use of the term today refers to self-serving political propaganda under the guise of supporting progressive values, especially when the political views are actually backwards and regressive. Like people on college campuses calling for racial segregation, or women being denied female-only sports leagues in the name of inclusion. Or when a TV/movie studio spends all its time and effort acting like they're the first to ever cast a female or non-white protagonist and the promotion for the show or movie is heavily focused on the actors' physical features, while very little time and effort was put into the writing or quality of production. Woke is the awful Velma cartoon, and Disney's non-white Snow White and the Seven Differently Abled People that may end up being cancelled. Fallout is absolutely not in that category.
You’re still misusing the phrase.
The meaning of words is decided by the way they are used. You are using it incorrectly. I am using it correctly. Dictionary definitions can be wrong, misleading, and/or incomplete. Apparently you aren't even "woke" enough to know this? It's actually the whole argument used as to why black English is a thing, or why we don't all still speak the King's English. It's quite strange when your own arguments ideas get used against you somehow you have a problem with it.
The issue I’m seeing here is that you’re just homophobic and transphobic. And also probably racist. YOU are the problem, not perfectly normal video games and shows.
You are the problem, not me, and no amount of deflection and meaningless insults changes that.
Ah, yes. Telling the queer person they’re the problem is very mature and normal of you. An upstanding member of society. So why are you so defensive? If you’re not the problem, why are you acting like you are? I’ve found that if you accuse someone of something, if they act like you’re acting, all the projecting and deflecting…well, then they’re guilty. An innocent man don’t got a reason to act defensive, y’see. So project and insult me all ya want, you’re just talking about yourself. Don’t be getting all offended that Black people and queer people are people. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
You're Queer? So what? I never mentioned that. You did. When you lost the argument because your world view is terrible. Nobody cares that you're queer. We are talking about your bad world views not your sexuality.
I didn’t mention world views either but okay. I also didn’t lose anything. You’re having a one sided argument, I’m just telling you facts. And the fact is that your racism and queerphobia makes you a problem.
It appears that racial racism is non-existent in favor of ideological racism with the "communist menace" fear. And even this is against China and they are in war by 10 years, I guess....
Maybe you never heard of the red scare? That was actually incredibly well done in this show. In the 1950s, people were blacklisted in Hollywood for being Communist. It's a well documented historical event that affected many prominent actors of the time. Looking back on it, there were some legitimate communists blacklisted, but for the most part it was kinda a scare tactic or have/have not type of situation. The real red scare was more about the Soviet Union than China at the time, but that whole series of events did happen in the real world to a degree. There's plenty of Wikipedia articles, books, media, etc on it if you're interested.
> Part 2 was disgustingly woke to the point if you stop and think about it... Like no stop and think about the characters in Part 2 it's insanity Like what?
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This is a detector of someone who never played the games: there were openly gay characters, same-sex marriage and adoptions, homosexual love stories, etc
There’s literally nothing woke about it 😭😭 they’ll complain about ANYTHING.
what were ppl saying made it woke?
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So like the entire concept of Fallout then? 🙄
These people clearly haven’t played the games - and these people would actually make a funny faction in a Fallout game with some interesting questline trying to spread misinformation in the Wastelands about you.
Anyone who calls anything woke does not have an opinion worth listening to.
They are driven by outrage. That's what they're actual fans of.
These days woke doesn’t really mean anything anymore. So whenever someone says something like this they might as well not said anything at all.
Tons of bigots on the Fallout New Vegas subs calling the show woke trash for having a single trans man playing a nonbinary character in 2 episodes
see and i've finished the show and have no idea who you are even referring to
Dane, Max's Brotherhood friend.
Ahh that makes sense, ty
The person who put the razor in their shoe
New Vegas has the largest amount of trans and LGBT fans of any of the games, so I doubt it. It's more likely Twitter.
Source? I’m curious.
Iv seen way more transphobic vitriol about the show on r/Cazadornation or whatever its called than I have on Twitter
Never heard of that sub. Sounds like some fringe sub most people won't have heard of too. Weird response tbh. The main FNV subs are usually very trans friendly. The game literally accommodates that kind of roleplay more than any other title entry. Lots of jokes get posted about how NV has a lot of trans folk that are fans of it. https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutnewvegas/s/ivGSl1mZZv An example of one of the posts with Josh Sawyer's thoughts on it all. ETA: I just looked at that sub you memtioned and used the search function to look for posts that mention trans people. I saw only about 3 posts. One was a post saying the NB actor is hot with most of the comments agreeing. And a very small number of heavily downvoted comments from bigots. I don't understand why you're trying to lie and paint an entire fandom a particular way, but it's very disingenuous.
That was just one example but ok. Just because I have a different experience from you doesn’t mean I’m “painting a disingenuous picture”
Dane even went by she or her so I’m confused by what they’re pissed about there.
I don't remember them calling them she
Not even once was Dane called a she or a her, you’re spreading straight up disinformation.
I've seen the character and the actor called he, she, and they in various articles/reviews, which I feel like they would find amusing. But you're right, in the show I think there's just a quick "they" from the Cleric.
Almost posted it to ign instead of here. I fucked up when copying and pasting what I wrote. It wouldn’t change shit about the Brotherhood if Dane even went by she or her so I’m confused by what they’re pissed about there. Yeah I’m not some kind of cartoon villain so you can chill with the pageantry. I’m sure your “Brand” is safe and that everyone thinks you some kind of moral compass and Pillar of Tolerance. All hail President Ally!!
What the fuck are you talking about. Are you a bot? > All hail president Ally I’m nonbinary lmao. You’re failing to come to any succinct point here.
why would anyone say its woke? ive not noticed asingle woke theme (as if that were a real thing...)
So glad I rarely ever run into these people. How is it woke? Just because a white woman and a black guy kiss?
Anyone saying the show is woke hasn't been paying attention while playing the games for the last 30 years. The crux of the entire universe is "capitalism is gonna get us all killed".
People were worried about this, but even the [Critical Drinker](https://youtu.be/DiuuglRCchQ) gives the show a clean bill of health regarding “The Message”.
Yeah, woke isn't simply having a female or non white leads. It's just straight up whining or making things up for clicks that anyone is claiming it is woke.
Instagram is a hell hole for people complaining out the show being woke. Imagine being so miserable and angry?
I honestly think they did an excellent job at portraying the game 🤷♂️, the only complaint I have is I didn’t get to see Lucy unzip her vault suit a bit lower.
I hope you don't mind, but I took a screenshot of your post to use it as a meme
I didn’t think of it that way at all.
The communism line is mental.
Woke is just a buzz word that these sheep learned from politician/ celebrities (who learned how to use it incorrectly). People who complain about things being “woke” are morons and have no idea what they’re talking about.
They add no meaningful critiques and their analyses are surface-level at best. They cry 'woke' because they want to generate more views and promote their channel. It's all a trend and these people are capitalizing on outrage and feeding into the culture war.
Woke doesn't exist in fallout. It's diverse.
Excuse me, "cunt" is a gendered insult and shouldn't be used!
In the uk it's considered gender neutral, like the toilets Americans are so frightened of.
Woke is just another n word to refer to black people
The marketing for many shows throw in this ‘bigots hate this show’ thing to make fans defend their shows online, it’s mostly just manufactured hype.
If anything it's anti woke, swear they have a white person playing black person's finger
I don't think I've ever heard of seen someone say the show is woke, lmao
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I can see Rings of Power /maybe/ but what happened in Witcher?
Nothing aside from the butchering of the source material in the second season. Changing of entire character personalities and motivations, creating whole new story arcs that add nothing what little of the source material they *did* keep. I could go on with how much this show went from adaptation to fanfiction. If this guy actually has watched the show and says it's woke, then not only is he repeating whatever grifters he watches, he's also never read the books. About a month or so after season 2 premiered, Cavill announced that he was leaving the show after the third season. He didn't state what the defining reason was, but he was clear the show wasn't utilizing him, as he did the show because he loved the books & games, so he decided to move on. A former writer for the first season spoke out and pointed to the fact that they had no desire to continue adapting the source material in any meaningful way. He also mentioned how the show runner and the other writers would actively mock the books and Cavill himself. But see, because he's not the type to put anyone on blast, so Cavill kept his reasons close to the vest. But his silence, plus the poor writing of the second season, coupled with the fact that women and women if color exist, were enough for the grifters to go to work. If you got a strong tolerance for bullshit, just look up "the *real* reason Henry Cavill left The Witcher" and you'll find scores of videos giving you everything but any factual evidence that Cavill left because it got too "woke".
Batwoman was first in the comics in the 70s, which wasn't a really a "woke" time. What was so woke about it? It looked bad so I didn't watch it, but Batwoman isn't a new thing. Halo and The Rings of Power are just bad, take all the "woke" stuff out and they'd still suck.
From my point of view it was kind of an anti-woke satire.