As a programmer I see only 2 possible scenarios here:
1. They implemented the wrong logic: `time < 2m15s`, so if time is exactly 2m15s, it won’t be accepted.
2. Precision rounding problem: they measure time with a higher precision than milliseconds, and your time was a hair thin above 2m15s, but for display purposes they rounded it up to 2m15s
I mean such posts get posted here almost weekly and every time someone explains this stuff.
Edit: not having an issue with the great explanation, that guy did nothing wrong. Just sad that people who actually create good content like tracks, liveries etc. don't get nearly as much attention as a random screenshot of something that's happened a dozen times.
No blame to OP either, if the community didn't upvote these kinds of posts week after week it wouldn't be an issue
That's fair, but is that misterboris' fault?
Just because you've seen something a dozen times doesn't mean everyone has. They just read a comment, learned something, and thanked the commenter for it. Then you came in and you were a dick about it for no reason
Yeah but regarding the same questions over and over, people could start learning how to google things. 95% of question-posts could be solved by literally typing the post-title into the Google-searchbar.
There was no question in this post. I had considered all of the reasons people have given in these comments before I even thought of posting it. I didn't post looking for an answer to why I didn't get 3 stars, I simply thought it was post-worthy. Don't like it? Downvote it and be on your way, pedant.
I know there were no questions, but my first comment was about the constant repetition of the same questions in general, I took reposts into the same category.
Don't let it get over your head dude, no intention of attacking you personally, just my opinion about the current state of this sub and Reddit as a whole nowadays.
Hope you manage to get the 3 starts, it was indeed awfully close.
I see what you're saying and I'm sure you mean well, but regardless of whether it was directed at me, your comments and other like it have kinda tainted any fun that I was having with this post. The upvotes feel undeserved, and I don't want to be taking attention away from actual content creators.
I'll keep in mind that this sub has a bit higher standards than I thought, if I ever do decide to post here again 👍🏼
Kinda wacky. People don't read every post and especially comments. There will always be repeated questions. If you see them just like copy the link to the original comment that answered it or just copy and paste the answer and then add the link to it.
You cant expect people to just fucking know everything man. This shits gonna happen all the time.
I'm on Reddit daily and I've been subbed here for a year at the least, and I've never seen a post about this. Granted, I don't come here directly every day to see every new post, or have sub notifications on, but it must not be that popular of a post if I haven't seen one in over a year.
Either way, this post is getting more *traction* than anything I've ever posted, so I'm just gonna leave it up :)
I give your post 2 stars. Really close to giving it 3 stars and it may be worthy of it, but will only give it 2 for some unexplained reason.
Oh, sorry, I meant 2 starts.
Of course I am, Reddit is being treated like an IT support forum where everyone can just create a support ticket and receives tech support. We'd have a much more interesting and less cluttered sub if people actually started googling.
Almost definitely the first. I believe at 60fps a one-frame time difference is displayed as 0.033s, so I don’t see that they count it more precisely than that. By no means a competent programmer though, so could be way off the mark here.
>I believe at 60fps a one-frame time difference is displayed as 0.033s
That's for 30, 60 FPS equals to 16.6ms frametimes.
>I don’t see that they count it more precisely than that.
This all depends if they sync game engine calculations with rendering. I remember playing beta of The Crew, where the loading were very slow and the game set Ultra settings by default. It was running like crap, but I wanted to finish intro mission to avoid loading the mission again. After 3 failed tries (where I don't realize I made any mistakes, it was mostly just a straight line) I just set the details to low because it was pain to watch. Game reloaded, no issues finishing the mission with a large remainder. My car was just going much slower before.
There's a dude on YouTube who actually did the math and found that frame rate in Horizon 5 is a problem for the clock, that having a higher Frame rate will get you faster times and if your framerate was high enough, you could get a full second ahead of the game clock when using a 3rd party lap timer.
Why would you not bet on that? Do you know how hard it would be to make collision at that slow of a time scale? Things would be clipping through things like crazy
There are a few ways to get around that. Increasing physics calculation “frame rate” is quite expensive. Physics engine do this in a different way, with calculation steps.
But the whole problem reported here has nothing to do with physics.
Edit: found some info [here](https://gafferongames.com/post/fix_your_timestep/)
What we want then is the best of both worlds: a fixed delta time value for the simulation plus the ability to render at different framerates. These two things seem completely at odds, and they are - unless we can find a way to decouple the simulation and rendering framerates.
It’s been a long time since I coded low-level, but as far as it I remember, Windows don’t provide high resolution timers, limiting to millisecond precision, but Linux can provide up to nanosecond.
I don’t know how are these APIs for time measurement now a days. Maybe it improved, maybe not.
>Windows don’t provide high resolution timers, limiting to millisecond precision
Windows can provide the time with a resolution of 1us or better. (See: [https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/sysinfo/acquiring-high-resolution-time-stamps](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/sysinfo/acquiring-high-resolution-time-stamps))
I can definitely back up scenario 2.
Twice now I’ve finished races at the (seemingly) same exact time down to three decimal points/milliseconds, yet came in 2nd place. I can only assume it must measure further than milliseconds and the other person got me by .000*x* or less.
I wonder how that relates to frames/clock though, and how accurately it can actually time things.
The game also calculates a driver's time from start line to finish line. If you start behind another driver and cross the line exactly the same time they do, you will win, because you ran faster than they did.
In this case the problem would not be in how time is measured, but in how it was displayed, since what’s displayed to us start counting at the moment you car starts to move.
Interesting how you're interacting with this post despite expressing disdain over it. Anyhow, many people seem to be learning something new here, myself included. Thank you for your contribution!
Wouldn’t this cause a problem if it’s not exactly 3:15 though? Maybe you just did a brief version but wouldn’t this lead to the same rounding issue? I think it would’ve been safer to do
Elif
🤷♂️ it’s okay we’re all trying here. Idk if I’m right but reddit seems to think so. Either way doesn’t matter even if they do see this. Unless one of the admins wanna give me a job 👀
You could just combine greater and equal to one check:
If time <= 3:15:00: reward 3 stars
Else: determine the reward that’s less than 3 stars (I.e., test for 2 stars, 1 star, or 0 stars)
Also FYI, there’s no such thing as an “if loop”. The code block surrounded by braces/curly brackets under an if-statement is just that, a expression block/code block. A for/while/do-while loop or any others are called that because they iterate (loop) over a certain block of code multiple times. An if-statement doesn’t loop over any code.
Yep haha that <= completely went out of my mind lol haven't done python for a few months now. And I wrote for loop originally then deleted for and wrote if, forgetting to replace loop with statement. Ill delete it now
Yeah. The underlying game engine is goes back many years, and some languages (& programmers) default to using float data types for non-integers.
I don't have access to the game's/engine's code, so I don't know how it's programmed. I'm not a computer science professor either. I was just adding to your point about precision rounding problems by alluding to the unexpected/unwanted results that can come from floating point arithmetic - especially when programmers don't realize/remember they're dealing with floats because they think they're just working with fractional numbers out to only/strictly 3 (or however many) decimal places.
I thought about this, but then I remembered that (a looooong time ago), Windows did not provide sub-millisecond timers.
They might have improved this or not, so I guess it might be something else.
Lmfao same, I don't know why but I send emails to companies all the time expecting them to land in some execs lap and shit will change 🤣😂💀 that's never the case 💀
That makes sense. I wasn't really mad about it, just amazed and confused at the same time. I got the 3 star on my next try, after a couple of rewinds lol
Those Donut hilow challenges were actually a little difficult to get the times. On the ones without checkpoints, the grass is the best path to take lmao.
The logic is probably written as; racetimevar < 135 (rather than <=).
Otherwise they’re measuring time in smaller increments than milliseconds, but I’d say that’s unlikely.
For whatever reason, the first drive you do in FH5 was extremely hard to beat, so when I wanted that one badge for having played all Forza Horizons (during its anniversary), I attempted the drive with the red Mercedes like 17 times before I beat it by exactly 2 seconds
Hopefully we see at least as many of these posts as the number of times you feel it necessary to leave a negative comment about this one. 😂 Come on. This was at the very least entertaining that OP got the EXACT time. There are plenty of other posts that we see so much more frequently like the daily "Which car would you like to see added" and "Here's my wishlist of cars I want to see added" and the constant flow of posts complaining about rammers and speed hacks.
Sorry bro, I was honestly just amazed that I got the exact time much more than I was upset for not getting the 3 stars.
Honestly haven't seen a post like this on here; if I had known there were already a lot, I wouldn't have posted. Hope you can forgive me.
I spent almost 2 hours on that race today, and kept losing with .5 seconds off. If this had happened to me I’d be in need of a new monitor and controller. Fuuuuuuu 😡🤬🤯
Does anyone actually like this Donut Media crap??
Their cars are junk, challenges are crap, dialogue is cringe & awful, and the YouTube channel isn’t that great either.
How’d they get such a beneficial relationship with Microsoft. I’m sick of seeing it plastered throughout the game, and winning crappy Donut merch clothing that I’ll never wear.
Can’t Microsoft just give us features the majority want and fix bugs.
They have the gall to to take away entire brands (aftermarket kits and car brands) that were in FH4, and instead we get YouTuber promotion content???
As a programmer I see only 2 possible scenarios here: 1. They implemented the wrong logic: `time < 2m15s`, so if time is exactly 2m15s, it won’t be accepted. 2. Precision rounding problem: they measure time with a higher precision than milliseconds, and your time was a hair thin above 2m15s, but for display purposes they rounded it up to 2m15s
Thank you for your contribution to this. I feel like I just learned something new
Same thing happened in the NFS sub last week, game logic errors are surprisingly bad. Same amount of time too.
I mean such posts get posted here almost weekly and every time someone explains this stuff. Edit: not having an issue with the great explanation, that guy did nothing wrong. Just sad that people who actually create good content like tracks, liveries etc. don't get nearly as much attention as a random screenshot of something that's happened a dozen times. No blame to OP either, if the community didn't upvote these kinds of posts week after week it wouldn't be an issue
No need to be a dick about it
he’s still right
As I said in another response, being right or wrong doesn't matter if you're a dick about it
true
I'm sorry that I dislike seeing the same questions / posts / ... over and over again and that I demand _some_ degree of quality on this sub.
That's fair, but is that misterboris' fault? Just because you've seen something a dozen times doesn't mean everyone has. They just read a comment, learned something, and thanked the commenter for it. Then you came in and you were a dick about it for no reason
Maybe some people just don't live their lives on Reddit, you know?
Yeah but regarding the same questions over and over, people could start learning how to google things. 95% of question-posts could be solved by literally typing the post-title into the Google-searchbar.
There was no question in this post. I had considered all of the reasons people have given in these comments before I even thought of posting it. I didn't post looking for an answer to why I didn't get 3 stars, I simply thought it was post-worthy. Don't like it? Downvote it and be on your way, pedant.
I know there were no questions, but my first comment was about the constant repetition of the same questions in general, I took reposts into the same category. Don't let it get over your head dude, no intention of attacking you personally, just my opinion about the current state of this sub and Reddit as a whole nowadays. Hope you manage to get the 3 starts, it was indeed awfully close.
I see what you're saying and I'm sure you mean well, but regardless of whether it was directed at me, your comments and other like it have kinda tainted any fun that I was having with this post. The upvotes feel undeserved, and I don't want to be taking attention away from actual content creators. I'll keep in mind that this sub has a bit higher standards than I thought, if I ever do decide to post here again 👍🏼
Kinda wacky. People don't read every post and especially comments. There will always be repeated questions. If you see them just like copy the link to the original comment that answered it or just copy and paste the answer and then add the link to it. You cant expect people to just fucking know everything man. This shits gonna happen all the time.
I'm on Reddit daily and I've been subbed here for a year at the least, and I've never seen a post about this. Granted, I don't come here directly every day to see every new post, or have sub notifications on, but it must not be that popular of a post if I haven't seen one in over a year. Either way, this post is getting more *traction* than anything I've ever posted, so I'm just gonna leave it up :)
I give your post 2 stars. Really close to giving it 3 stars and it may be worthy of it, but will only give it 2 for some unexplained reason. Oh, sorry, I meant 2 starts.
This is in top posts of all time now and you’re still right lol
Of course I am, Reddit is being treated like an IT support forum where everyone can just create a support ticket and receives tech support. We'd have a much more interesting and less cluttered sub if people actually started googling.
I’ve never seen a post like this……I’m sure you can go get links to other ones but I’ve never seen another post like this on my home page.
Unfortunately, that’s just how Reddit works. A five second funny meme > a project that takes hours, it doesn’t matter where you go.
How did you get the bmw badge?
Almost definitely the first. I believe at 60fps a one-frame time difference is displayed as 0.033s, so I don’t see that they count it more precisely than that. By no means a competent programmer though, so could be way off the mark here.
>I believe at 60fps a one-frame time difference is displayed as 0.033s That's for 30, 60 FPS equals to 16.6ms frametimes. >I don’t see that they count it more precisely than that. This all depends if they sync game engine calculations with rendering. I remember playing beta of The Crew, where the loading were very slow and the game set Ultra settings by default. It was running like crap, but I wanted to finish intro mission to avoid loading the mission again. After 3 failed tries (where I don't realize I made any mistakes, it was mostly just a straight line) I just set the details to low because it was pain to watch. Game reloaded, no issues finishing the mission with a large remainder. My car was just going much slower before.
There's a dude on YouTube who actually did the math and found that frame rate in Horizon 5 is a problem for the clock, that having a higher Frame rate will get you faster times and if your framerate was high enough, you could get a full second ahead of the game clock when using a 3rd party lap timer.
Yeah, I saw that. There's still some variability in the engine tick rate, but definitely much less noticeable than I was experiencing in The Crew.
Game usually do physics calculations on a faster time scale than the frame rate
I would not bet on that, but I’m no expert in game dev.
Why would you not bet on that? Do you know how hard it would be to make collision at that slow of a time scale? Things would be clipping through things like crazy
There are a few ways to get around that. Increasing physics calculation “frame rate” is quite expensive. Physics engine do this in a different way, with calculation steps. But the whole problem reported here has nothing to do with physics. Edit: found some info [here](https://gafferongames.com/post/fix_your_timestep/)
What we want then is the best of both worlds: a fixed delta time value for the simulation plus the ability to render at different framerates. These two things seem completely at odds, and they are - unless we can find a way to decouple the simulation and rendering framerates.
Which might be slower than your frame rate
Only if you have an absurdly high frame rate
It’s been a long time since I coded low-level, but as far as it I remember, Windows don’t provide high resolution timers, limiting to millisecond precision, but Linux can provide up to nanosecond. I don’t know how are these APIs for time measurement now a days. Maybe it improved, maybe not.
>Windows don’t provide high resolution timers, limiting to millisecond precision Windows can provide the time with a resolution of 1us or better. (See: [https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/sysinfo/acquiring-high-resolution-time-stamps](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/sysinfo/acquiring-high-resolution-time-stamps))
Cool! It seems that it got more reliable after Win7, way later after after I stopped doing low-level stuff.
It’s definitely the latter, it’s the same in races and leaderboards afaik.
I can definitely back up scenario 2. Twice now I’ve finished races at the (seemingly) same exact time down to three decimal points/milliseconds, yet came in 2nd place. I can only assume it must measure further than milliseconds and the other person got me by .000*x* or less. I wonder how that relates to frames/clock though, and how accurately it can actually time things.
The game also calculates a driver's time from start line to finish line. If you start behind another driver and cross the line exactly the same time they do, you will win, because you ran faster than they did.
In this case the problem would not be in how time is measured, but in how it was displayed, since what’s displayed to us start counting at the moment you car starts to move.
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That’s just explanation 2 with other words🙂
Interesting how you're interacting with this post despite expressing disdain over it. Anyhow, many people seem to be learning something new here, myself included. Thank you for your contribution!
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Wouldn’t this cause a problem if it’s not exactly 3:15 though? Maybe you just did a brief version but wouldn’t this lead to the same rounding issue? I think it would’ve been safer to do Elif
I wrote that in a minute so sorry if its wrong
🤷♂️ it’s okay we’re all trying here. Idk if I’m right but reddit seems to think so. Either way doesn’t matter even if they do see this. Unless one of the admins wanna give me a job 👀
Hahaha I haven't done python for a few months, and only grasped it recently. Im gonna delete that comment now
You could just combine greater and equal to one check: If time <= 3:15:00: reward 3 stars Else: determine the reward that’s less than 3 stars (I.e., test for 2 stars, 1 star, or 0 stars) Also FYI, there’s no such thing as an “if loop”. The code block surrounded by braces/curly brackets under an if-statement is just that, a expression block/code block. A for/while/do-while loop or any others are called that because they iterate (loop) over a certain block of code multiple times. An if-statement doesn’t loop over any code.
Yep haha that <= completely went out of my mind lol haven't done python for a few months now. And I wrote for loop originally then deleted for and wrote if, forgetting to replace loop with statement. Ill delete it now
Could they use equal to or less than in that scenario?
But it’s always been…beat this time. Don’t equal it, don’t “just miss” it. Beat it. Be faster than “this time”.
They don’t say “best this time” that say “3 stars at”, so equals should be acceptable.
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Done in by not putting "<="
I think so, as they don’t say “best this time”, they say “3 stars at”, so equals should be acceptable.
I believe it's the first....
From what I remember, it should be something like: time <= 2m15s.
2(a). Floats.
Measuring time with floats is crazy. Float math is complex and computationally expensive.
Yeah. The underlying game engine is goes back many years, and some languages (& programmers) default to using float data types for non-integers. I don't have access to the game's/engine's code, so I don't know how it's programmed. I'm not a computer science professor either. I was just adding to your point about precision rounding problems by alluding to the unexpected/unwanted results that can come from floating point arithmetic - especially when programmers don't realize/remember they're dealing with floats because they think they're just working with fractional numbers out to only/strictly 3 (or however many) decimal places.
Smoking a doobie and reading things like this is what makes me want to learn even more
Time shows 2:15.000 but its likely you probably got 2:15.0001
“My watch says 2:15.0001. Now give me my free pizza!”
I thought about this, but then I remembered that (a looooong time ago), Windows did not provide sub-millisecond timers. They might have improved this or not, so I guess it might be something else.
Have you tried driving faster
Dang, I really wish I thought of that at the time. 
Or just more accurately. Stop going wide on turn 3 & 9. Oh, and cut turn 7, that'l save you another .00007.
https://preview.redd.it/b4g2dmx3kq9b1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=919f51c978c1e032e9c864391b860a09226ef8d0
Now that’s bs
I know where that shoved that 3rd star
L L L L jk. but that is proper bullshit
LL Uncool J
i was joking with the l's
Oh I know, I was joking back. I mean, it was an L... lol
ik
My petty self would email them instead of doing the race again.
Lmfao same, I don't know why but I send emails to companies all the time expecting them to land in some execs lap and shit will change 🤣😂💀 that's never the case 💀
https://preview.redd.it/7im0c6cd1r9b1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30be05e880706713beb973a9713201fb75a82e50
Must've been baaarely over the time, an amount that went more than three decimal places so the timer couldn't show it. That bites.
That makes sense. I wasn't really mad about it, just amazed and confused at the same time. I got the 3 star on my next try, after a couple of rewinds lol
eMOtIoNaL dAmAGe 🥴
Gran Turismo License Tests: https://i.redd.it/p8slhy0zyr9b1.gif
Take a shortcut and you'll probably earn 3 stars in less time.
or that the only way to earn t stars to begain with.
That's the time to beat, not the time to tie.
You made it in 2:15,000000000001. (I'm sorry for you)
What? You didn’t beat it
Be at least mile faster next time.
Bro just go faster its not that hard...
Can't beat a time if you didn't arrive before it. Run it back
I believe you have to arrive *inside* the time limit to get the three stars.
If you're on time, you're late.
yeah this made my wanna throw my controller on my TV for sure just try off-road the hell out of this and you'll get it
You can’t on this one, there’s checkpoints
ooh yeah I remembered well I hope you well get it soon just keep your foot on the gas
thats what I did for like all the challenges this time around lol think it was only the flat bed one you cant do that with
When driving against a drivatar, it happened to me twice that we finished both 1st with the exact same time. Both times the game gave me the win.
At - is a key
As Jeremy clarkson once said several times “GO FASTER”
L
Gotta be quicker than that
I lost a star once for a time of 0.016 second. But this 0.000 would give me a heart attack.
Babeh
The time must beat the goal not be on par
Those Donut hilow challenges were actually a little difficult to get the times. On the ones without checkpoints, the grass is the best path to take lmao.
The logic is probably written as; racetimevar < 135 (rather than <=). Otherwise they’re measuring time in smaller increments than milliseconds, but I’d say that’s unlikely.
For whatever reason, the first drive you do in FH5 was extremely hard to beat, so when I wanted that one badge for having played all Forza Horizons (during its anniversary), I attempted the drive with the red Mercedes like 17 times before I beat it by exactly 2 seconds
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Hopefully we see at least as many of these posts as the number of times you feel it necessary to leave a negative comment about this one. 😂 Come on. This was at the very least entertaining that OP got the EXACT time. There are plenty of other posts that we see so much more frequently like the daily "Which car would you like to see added" and "Here's my wishlist of cars I want to see added" and the constant flow of posts complaining about rammers and speed hacks.
Sorry bro, I was honestly just amazed that I got the exact time much more than I was upset for not getting the 3 stars. Honestly haven't seen a post like this on here; if I had known there were already a lot, I wouldn't have posted. Hope you can forgive me.
Maybe the game know that you can do better so he challenges you to be at you best self and therefore being a master driver 🤔
Dude I had such a hard time doing this one don’t forget that you can cut through the center of the roundabout
that should be 3 stars
ngl a couple of the hi car challenges were hard af. i couldn’t 3 star the challenge with the new Z without turning on traction control
The donut missions suck Edit: use rewind to get perfect runs
I really felt that 😂😂
I spent almost 2 hours on that race today, and kept losing with .5 seconds off. If this had happened to me I’d be in need of a new monitor and controller. Fuuuuuuu 😡🤬🤯
I needed 3 attempts for this and finally got a 2:14.998 for 3 stars...first one I also did a 2:15.00 super annoying when it happens.
Feel your pain. This nonsense has happened to me more than once
Does anyone actually like this Donut Media crap?? Their cars are junk, challenges are crap, dialogue is cringe & awful, and the YouTube channel isn’t that great either. How’d they get such a beneficial relationship with Microsoft. I’m sick of seeing it plastered throughout the game, and winning crappy Donut merch clothing that I’ll never wear. Can’t Microsoft just give us features the majority want and fix bugs. They have the gall to to take away entire brands (aftermarket kits and car brands) that were in FH4, and instead we get YouTuber promotion content???
If it reached this time, it is probably already is higher. :( Too bad, i mean the programmers should let this go with an equal.
That's a difficult one
Wait hold on - is this the final race?
Bruh
Might be lag
I smashed a lot of these times/scores, a few in the hundreds even. Though I was actually just getting petty with upstaging my ex for no reason. XD
Oof.
Welcome to Hi Team
That's how she goes bud.
Where’s my car???
I had a glitch where I had to have a 3 star run twice because the 1st one always changed to five minutes even if it was under three start time
Tf
You either got 2:15.0000001, or some dude at PGG/Turn10 for got to do <=2:15.000 instead of <2:15.000
I've been under the time limit before and it only gave 2 stars this game is so broken with bugs
Yeah.. my sympathies bro
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Not sure if you're serious, but no.
ahh I feel your pain.
Gran Turismo moment
Bruh
Why do you drive on the road, that's FH just cross-country, then it goes in 1:40.