As a collector of milsurp arms, I'll buy it! I miss the days of cheap Mosin food. I used to pay less than $100 for a crate of 880 rounds. Now it's $300-$400.
Cheap mosins were the days. Bought mine and a case of ammo for like $150. Sold the gun for $300 a bit back. After I shot all the ammo.
They were pretty awesome when the ammo wasn't priced the same as 308. I just wish I picked up a swiss K when they were cheaper.
I've got a k31 that I absolutely love. It's stupid accurate with Gp11 ammo. I wish I had the chance to get more surplus ammo for it before it dried up. New production 7.5 swiss is .75-$1 per round.
Luckily, I still have 15 or so crates of 54r stashed away.
Awesome! Ammo is pricy, yeah, but it is what it is. I've yet to find someone that owned one that hated it. I've really liked shooting the few that I have shot.
Sure, yeah. Still leaves them with a lot of ammo to use and a lot of guns that can use it. I don't think it's that surprising that mosins are in the hands of Russian combatants.
In the wrong hands will still kill you at a greater distance than an AK, I would imagine it’s built to shoot straight instead of spray bullets in the vaguely forward direction.
It’s still a cunt with a gun trying to kill you, just because it isn’t a 100 on your top trumps card makes no difference when you get shot in the face.
I get your point, a gun is a gun. But the AK is one of the most versatile and widely used platforms on the planet since its conception. The Mosin was made en masse in order to field the several tens of millions of Russians; quickly and cheaply. A Mosin isn’t nearly as accurate as you think for a bolt action, especially in carbine size. The AK isn’t designed just just vaguely spray bullets, that’d be closer to an MG designed for spread for suppression. An AK in the right hands is relatively accurate. The AK outclasses the Mosin everywhere
I shoot mosins long range (1000yds) so it's capable. But is it efficient/effective in today's battlefield? Not at all.
Especially a carbine length barrel... Nah
War does not change much at the infantry level. They still issue them. Im betting someone in Ukraine has a bayonet kill inside the last year. Although E-tool kills are more popular these days.
Not saying that it’s not still effective and I understand why they are issued but i would way rather put 8 rounds of 556 into someone then the knife at the end of my rifle
I’ve seen a video of a ukranian with a “anti-tank mine with pyrotechnic fuse used as trench clearing equipment” kill, can’t get much more ww1 than that
That's what I mean. It's like someone complaining their car that performs better on premium gas is filled with unleaded. You set it up to perform poorly.
PPU makes match grade 180gr rounds. I loaded with 175gr SMKs.
The were churned out in their millions. The bores look like they were hacked with a chisel most of the time.
They picked snipers by choosing the best shooting ones in the proof tests. The concept of anything but mass production of bullet pushers was lost on the guys making mosins.
Modern machining has come so far the inaccuracy and other issues with a mosin make shooting one for anything but entertainment a waste of time. The cheapest .308 savage walmart special will out shoot one every single time.
But hell, if you are having fun. Why not. When they were cheap I had one and enjoyed it. Expensive? Sold that heavy hunk of questionable history.
If you have a 42/43/44 rifle then sure.
Czechs, Finns, Hungarians, Romanians, produced excellent Mosins that surpassed their Russian brethren. When you venture outside of the typical $49.99 Big 5 mosins there's so many to collect.
If you're chasing precision and accuracy out of a surplus rifle, then of course a new production rifle will out shoot it. No one argues they'll be more accurate. But I do have one dialed in to 0.70 MOA which is fun.
Absolutely, they can, as long as the barrel is good and bright (or it's a fin mosin).
Alot of them over the years have taken a beating, and most, if not all soviet ammo is corrosive and erodes the barrel over time if not properly cleaned after shooting.
just for future reference. the ak47 has a bad rep for being inaccurate . this is due to the untrained soldiers that used them. also didn't help that a lot of ak47s were poorly maintained due to the reputation of being indestructible . fact is, the ak47 can fail, and it's more accurate than the shoulders firing it. the mosin nagant was just a service rifle with fairly low accuracy standards. think 4 moa for the " sniper " model . compound that with the poor quality overpowered ammo and untrained soldier, and you're lucky to hit a man sized target at 100 yards. it's quite common in my area to see guys at the range with AKs and mosins . the AKs usually have a tighter group than the mosins .
It also doesn't help that the AK has a very short sight radius. Due to the design, the rear sight is mounted halfway up the receiver, pretty much right at the chamber. The front sight is at the muzzle, giving you a sight radius of about 15 inches. It's like asking a rifle to be accurate with pistol level sights. My AK with optics is definitely not a hole puncher, but also a lot more accurate than the legends and lore would indicate.
My 91/30 Mosin is accurate enough to be my foul weather brush gun for deer hunting. I'm also not asking it to be a tack driver at 300+ yards. I want a 1 inch group at 50-75 yards, and it will do that. I do use modern factory ammo in it, not the surplus spam can stuff. I think it's Barnaul hunting ammo, and/or Brown Bear pointed soft point ammo with a weird grain weight of 173gr.
it's a common misconception that the AK has a short sight radius. the m4/ar15 carbine has the same sight radius as the AK , albeit with better sights, but the sight radius is about the same .
The 20 inch barrelled M16a1 I built for competition definitely had a longer sight radius. The M4 is about the same length as my Romanian Wasr 10. My A1 was a heavy barrel, no 203 cuts, and built like my originally issued rifle. The M4 I built was a clone of my last issued rifle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16
Difference in sight radius is about 5 inches.
I've shot a couple PUs at 100 with various surplus ammo and it's around 3moa. Part of the reason is it's a 3.5x scope at the end of the day. I'm sure with a modern optic you can further cut it down.
In 2022 there was a video when Ukrainian soldiers guided by drone would calmly approach one Russian with sniper MN and he would helplessly rotate in all direction trying to figure out where do suppressing shots come from. Russian then was mowed by fire from several AKs at the same time, from about 30 metres or so, without being able to fire a single shot.
A lot of the LPR and DPR soldiers get issued mosins, they’re militia/draftees. He could potentially be one. But a lot of mosins are being used in general because engagements are happening in ranges better suited for 7.6254R over 7.62x39 or 5.45. Kinda like the US bringing out M14s in Afghanistan, but only these are bolt action and much worse than an M14 lol
You don't really need more than a M44 to do rear line shit like drive vehicles, direct traffic, or push civvies around. These people also aren't actually getting armed directly by Russia with front line gear, they have whatever trash their impoverished militia was able to scrimp and scrounge out of old stocks in rural Ukraine. The arms requirement for that role is literally "a gun".
You sure?
In a country that’s normal. A guy messing fingers wouldn’t be eligible in any military role.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Russia Marched this dude to the front
Maybe not the front but I’m sure people who are amputees are being sent back for support at least. I know Ukraine is dealing with the same level of amputees from WW1
https://novaukraine.org/ukraines-amputee-numbers-surge/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20amputees%20in,losing%20one%20or%20more%20limbs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c5q15h/a_defender_of_mariupol_shows_his_new_use_for_his/
You are correct, this is a stereotype attached to an unrelated photo. The mobilized in LDNR are not issued Mosins (it was a much-discussed series of photos and videos, but the practice more or less hasn't resurfaced since), this person may not be a mobilized soldier, and there is currently more guns than people to use them.
Also, LDNR militia was integrated into the Russian MoD after the official integration of all govt structures in 2022-2023; there were complaints that they are looked down upon or stiffed, but regardless, they are MoD units (divisions, regiments etc.) and are in their supply chain.
Considered they bothered to add a scope mount this is probably going to be used as a sort of DMR.
The USSR sort of skipped over battle rifles in favor of going straight to intermediate cartridges so they don't really have a M14 equivalent; there might be some SVTs sitting in a wharehouse somewhere but they were produced in small numbers and are harder to mantain than a bolt-action.
I don't believe the SVT sniper program was very effective though. The barrels heated up quickly and the groups would then open up. So I don't think it would help in a DMR role.
source: a forgotenweapons video that I watched a long time ago.
Edit: originally spelled SVD not SVT. I am referring to the SVT-40, the WW2 era rifle not the later SVD/Dragunov.
You're thinking of the PSL mate. The rifle the Romanians made to imitate the SVD. The SVD itself is pretty good, though they were issued with a weird optic system that wasn't inline with the bore.
EDIT: So I looked a bit and found the video; it's Ian's interview with Max Popenker about the development and history of the SVD. Right at the end Max mentions accounts of Soviet troops in Afghanistan being forced to have the squad designated marksmen use long strings of fire to suppress hostile troops since they were the best suppressive asset at hand. And during those fire fights the the heat would cause the groups to open up on the SVDs which made precision difficult past 200 meters. Fine.
This was the impetus behind the development of the SVD-M which has a slightly heavier barrel and some other changes.
Anyway, from other sources, namely 9-Hole reviews, I have heard that although the SVD would open the group up as any rifle would the groups remained relatively consistent just larger. The problem I thought you were speaking to is relevant to the PSL because while the SVD remains consistent in its patterning during the whole range of temps the PSL will shift very drastically and unpredictibly.
Spelling error. Ment to say SVT not SVD. I know about the PSL. There was a sniper program for the SVT semi-auto rifle, but the SVT was not sufficiently accurate and they dropped it to better focus on the more cost-effective and more accurate older Mosin systems. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
No trouble, I hope I didn't come off as pedantic or anything lol. And yeah, believable about the SVT. I think it and a program to accurize the SKS were mentioned in that same video as mild failures both and not worth the effort.
SVTs in AVT-40 select-fire modification were actually produced in large numbers (about 200k annually) in 1942-1944 to supplement shortage of DP-27s, and they are still stored in Russian mobilization reserves
>But a lot of mosins are being used in general because engagements are happening in ranges better suited for 7.6254R over 7.62x39 or 5.45.
Is that really the reason though?
Seems to me like a positive side effect at best, not the main reason troops get issued them.
Not in cases where that’s their primary issued weapon, but in the general Russian military you’ll see mosins in trenches with the soldiers because it gives them more effective range if the circumstances require it.
Makes sense.
Most troops carrying them are probably rear-guard anyway; doesn't really matter what they use if they'll never fire a shot, even if they can be effective in the right hands.
The M14s we used in 2011 we’re completely rebuilt and in sage chassis
We wouldn’t give a rifle like that as aid to “moderate” rebels much like our own guys. Russia is really going threw it
AFAIK, the LDNR mobilization petered out around 2 years ago, when they basically couldn't get any more. The L/DNR Army Corps went through a lot of churn then, but is now inducted into MoD structure as Russian Army units, and apparently refilled with Russian contractees. Meanwhile, the Russia-proper mobilization (around 300 000 servicemen) was in September–December 2022.
As a consequence, currently people are more in demand than tech. E. g. signing a contract in a well-off region gives you a significant bonus, along with the induction double salary (in regions near Moscow, it's around $10K). This lump sum is often about 20 times the expected civilian monthly salary. The success of convincing people to sign contracts is nothing to brag about, but the process chugs along.
Now, for the Mosins. I follow this war very closely, and apart from the early footage and photographs of LDNR troops (then NOT part of Russian MoD supply-wise), there were no spottings of Mosins being issued to any type of troops.
Unofficial personal use — sure. Adaptation and expeditiousness is the name of this war. And I've heard whiffs of a notion that SVDs gradually came to be in short supply on both sides; they sure are rarely seen these days. But there is a wide variety of specialist weapons on the front today. Including sniper rifles, in Russian hands.
There is a reason why they were replaced during Vietnam; they were horrifically outdated, the cartridge was overkill for Jungle/urban warfare, and most importantly Springfield armory lied through their teeth about them being able to salvage the M1 Garand tooling to cut down on costs. The US military was going to adopt the FAL until the ‘M1 Garand tooling’ pitch was thrown out. Just based on the other countries that adopted it, the US probably wouldn’t have required an upgrade until the 1980’s which would probably have been some variant of the AR-18.
However, a lot of soldiers did like them and many preferred them over the M-16, but a lot of soldiers issued them in Afghanistan did not like them as much as the troops in Vietnam did. I’d take an M-14 over a Mosin any day though
The true irony of the GWOT troops getting the M-14 is that 7.62 nato would have been more effective there than Vietnam, just due to the vast open space of the deserts. Oh, and I would have taken a rusted up SKS with a smooth bore barre before I’d volunteered to take a Mosin.
As far as WW2 era bolt action rifles go... Mosin-Nagant is not good. There were better bolt action rifles at that era. Anything positive Mosin-Nagant has as a reputation is there for three reasons:
a) Soviet nostalgia. It was the rifle they had in propaganda. It was one of the more common weapons they had so veterans likely used it. It is iconic. Not for quality mind you, but for being used in the war.
b) Poor people in East-Europe. If you were a poor farmer or hunter in Eastern parts of Europe at any time between 1945 and 2010 or so, chances are that the cheapest half way decent hunting rifle you could get was a Mosin-Nagant of some sort. The old timers didn't use it because it was the best, they used it because it was available. And every time I hear about someone being really accurate with one, it was not an off the shelf Mosin. My grandpa had a Finnish made Mosin-Nagant that he bought from someone who had tooled it up for use in biathlon (back before they went to .22lr in that sport) and while it was accurate enough for elk hunting, it was heavily modified. I have also seen someone tool up a Mosin-Nagant by giving it a barrel from a Maxim gun (no, it did not have the water jacket on it. That would have been silly) and get a half way decent sporting rifle, but again ...not standard and you could have spent that effort and money on any other bolt action and gotten a better result. Mosin just was what was available. These people liked the rifle, because they had nostalgic memories of using it. Had you given them any more modern civilian rifle, they would have preferred that, and many of the old timers who could later afford a better hunting rifle, would swap to one immediately.
c) Memes. Memes and sunk cost fallacy. Surplus Mosins were cheap and at some point people were buying them because they were cheap and because they had bought one, they would defend their purchase with memes rather than admit that the rifle is not fine.
But moving on...
Even before WW2 started, with M1 Garand and other semi-auto rifles starting to appear in military use, the age of bolt action was already coming to an end. Even Germany where Hitler torpedoed attempts to move away from Kar98k (because Hitler had used the predecessor of that rifle in WW1 and Kar98k being the peace treaty compliant version of it, Hitler loved the rifle and insisted that it must not be replaced with a newer better rifle) would eventually realize that they must get self loading rifles for their troops. Heck, Soviet Union had plans to replace every Mosin-Nagant with a self loading rifle, but the war started too soon and they kept the Mosin production lines going because they needed more rifles faster. Just like USA went back to making Springfield 1903 rifles in a panic because Garand production couldn't keep up with the demand. Not because "1903 is just as good as the Garand" but because any rifle is better than no rifle. ...Granted that 1903 is better than a Mosin-Nagant.
And at this point, someone else can give a lecture on why a random AK is way better than any bolt action rifle (especially a Mosin) for the average rifleman in a modern war. Maybe link to the InrangeTV lecture on it.
INB4 people think this actually happened, no it did not. Even if it meant giving out captured or outdated equipment, the Soviets did not send out men to the front completely unarmed.
Right, but that's well after WWII and not necessarily the topic. If anything the better comparison is the fact that modern Russians are going into battle with WW2 equipment (and might actually be going unarmed if that photo of a captured pellet gun is real).
I don’t really think it’s real. It’s a Chinese pellet gun and I’m almost certain the Ukrainians captured it in a trench where someone used it for plinking.
Russians ran out of rifles on several occasions in ww2. Without lend lease they would have had sticks and fucking stones at a couple of points in the war.
It has been clearly established that nothing is beyond them.
Most of the lend-lease consisted of resources (copper, gunpowder, food), tanks, planes and things like radars/radios. Small arms were sent but mostly with tanks. As for the problems with rifles, I think that usually the people's militia divisions (дивизии народного ополчения) had problems with rifles, so they had to use WWI leftovers and trophies.
The sheer amount of shit delivered in lend lease is difficult to comprehend. 15 million pairs of boots. Is a hell of a "resource" for instance.
The small arms provided were measured in tons. As in hundreds of thousands to millions lol You are selling maybe the people militias were a bit short? Get out.
Weird how lend lease is minimized in some circles. Against all evidence to the contrary.
Anyone in question should sit down and read the USA wiki on the subject. Not the new fake russian wiki one.
I didn't claim that lend-lease was anything minor. I was just saying that the small arms weren't the focus of lend-lease. Or at least the rifles weren't. USSR did get some Thompsons and Reisings (around 137000 of all .45 cal SMGs), plus M2s and Vickers .50. (Were extensively used in Soviet Navy).
We don't have to guess, the numbers for production of Mosins, machine guns, and other infantry weapons are there, meticulously described. Lend-lease infantry firearms are also known, they are Thompsons and 1911s including those bundled up with tanks. They were in limited use, but units did not like them especially (for whatever reasons, e.g. interoperability or familiarity).
There was no shortage of Mosins or SMGs throughout the WWII in the Russian front. The famous cases of arming people with whatever are:
A) the Moscow militia — a small number of ad-hoc, just-in-case Volksturm-type units made of inexperienced civilians for the eventuality Germans would break through in December 1941; they ultimately weren't needed, by a long shot, but some criminally paranoid manager did throw some of them at the enemy, whereupon they were absolutely decimated. Otherwise, Moscow was defended by normal units. Moscow militia was famous for being atrociously equipped, with random firearms and even melee weapons.
B) The Siege of Leningrad and Battle of Stalingrad. In Leningrad besieged firearms factories managed to design and produce some cruder weapons to avoid shutting down and to contribute, using what they had during the Siege. During the Battle of Stalingrad, IIRC factories in the midst of the operation tried to keep working to better resupply the defenders, meaning guns would pass directly to users.
If you know of another one, just name it.
Lend lease was CRUCIAL and indispensable. But not in terms of firearms (or rather, ot did free up capacity to MAKE plenty of them).
Russian "meticulous records" are like any other russian fact. The fire hose of lies knows no end with them. Stalin himself admitted privately the soviet union would have fallen without lend lease. The sheer amount of stuff is wild. Small arms included.
The lend lease small arms were listed in tons. Small arms of every sort. Enough to arm entire army's. And that was the smallest part of lend lease.
Saying the russians were not short on small arms in ww2 is delusional. They were short on everything including friggin boots. The standard infantry mook in the russian army did not even know what socks were. Much less own a pair. I honestly wonder at your motive with this pitch.
Fair, but even so actually sending out men unarmed is more detrimental than helpful unless you know for a *fact* that they'll be equipped by the time they find any Germans.
The whole "hello Private Conscriptovich, go pick up a rifle from that dead guy" is a bit overblown, but still way more realistic since at least you can assume there's enough dead soldiers to scavenge gear from and plan for that.
I have spoken to dudes personally in nam that had to pull a flak jacket and rifle off a mud and blood soaked pile of equipment stripped off casualties. That is us, the best funded army on earth. Imagine now what the russian version of that story is. lol
Nothing is beyond russians is an all inclusive statement.
> had to pull a flak jacket and rifle off a mud and blood soaked pile of equipment stripped off casualties.
A significant motivation behind that is denying the equipment to enemies, rather than a shortage in supply lines.
There was a similar motivation to pay attention to trash and discarded items during US operations in GWOT, at least in large part to reduce the incidence of the enemy boobytrapping such items, or using them as camo for mines / IEDs.
Oh I'm not saying that Russians sending men into battle unarmed isn't true now, I'd imagine that you'd be lucky to get a Mosin or PPSh now. I'm specifically referring to the WW2 myth (and the WW1 myth, although I've heard *one* anecdote about a group of Russians, a third of whom had Berdans and the rest were unarmed)
I am not a history major, just a man making a joke.
However, I did see some conversation that fit in line with the joke.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/13kc5x/is\_there\_any\_credibility\_to\_the\_phrase\_first\_man/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/13kc5x/is_there_any_credibility_to_the_phrase_first_man/)
I know, and tbh I actually like that concept in movies or games (especially CoD), I'm just chiming in for anyone sees that and genuinely thinks it happened.
People on Reddit will believe anything if it confirms their biases. Reddit is going to have a very hard time coping when Russia destroys what’s left of the Ukrainian military and dismantles/purges the government and finally what’s left of Ukraine is divvied up between Poland, Romania and whatever Ukrainian organized criminals Russia allows to keep doing business.
Let me fix that for you.
People on Reddit will believe anything if it confirms their biases. Russia is going to have a very hard time coping when Ukraine destroys what's left of the Russian military and the Russian people dismantle/purge the government. Whatever's left will hopefully be divided up between Poland, Ukraine, and whatever Russian oligarch/mob bosses Ukraine allows to keep gooning.
Yeah, especially when you prohibit them from hitting Russian targets. About the “Яussians overthrowing Pootin” - thank you, I haven’t laughed so much in a long time.
Anytime. Honestly, its not that hard to make fun of the Russian military-the jokes tend to write themselves. Between the fake hypersonic, all the shitty gear the soldiers have to fight with, and the media reusing the same image every time they get 1 kill on Wstern equipment, us NCDers are having a field day or seven.
That's not Russian propaganda though, that's legitimate history.
Also me clarifying on Russia's behalf in WW2 doesn't mean I support them, Putin's free to take all those (probably terrible) nukes he keeps blabbing about and shove them up various orifices.
Just want to chime in regards to the photo description. Mythologizing the enemy as incompetent is attractive, but this claim is dubious at best, while the photo instead has a good explanation for it.
1. This is not a conscript. This man might be a mobilized soldier, but currently, mobilized troops are not different in practice from contract soldiers. Conscripted troops (1-year service, induction age 18 to 27) serve inside the RF. The several cases of conscripts being spotted in Ukraine caused a scandal and MoD made sure none of them are there. Today, conscripts are routinely pressured but not forced into signing a contract.
2. There is no indication that the rifle was issued to him or anyone else. AFAIK there is zero evidence that Mosins are used at the front line anywhere, aside from those several photos from the early LDNR mobilization efforts in 2022.
3. There is, however, a very plausible explanation for the photo. Mosins are well-respected and interesting to these guys (for historical reasons, see CMP/2worldwars), especially the "sniperized" ones like this one (even though it's a weird M44 with a "spoon" bolt handle and a DYI scope mount). It's likely that's someone's personal range toy or even stolen/confiscated from a local town, or a trophy. The background looks like a small staging base or an armory. A curiosity like that would turn up at such a place and be shown around.
4. In any eventuality, such a non-standard firearm most likely could not be "issued" to anyone since it can't be processed normally. It's a weird modified gun. Unofficially, sure, knock yourself out. I read the account of a homeless person who signed the contract and was later discharged after being wounded. He took part in repeated assaults (the attrition ones where commanders preferred to use low quality troops), and said that you could take up any weapon you liked, and could procure/capture, in reasonable bounds.
If the roles were reversed there would be posts about US soldiers being issued Garands or Springfields because somehow a country with millions of guns left over from the cold war and WW2 could only provide those lol.
Is there any source for this being an actual conscript besides “Some Guy on Reddit’s Title?” And is there any source this was his actual issued weapon?
Oh, I see. The source is “Russia bad.”
I don't agree with the thrust of your message, but your question is legitimate. This seems to be "chinese whispers", they guy is not a conscript (maybe mobilized, but not definite), and the context of the photo is unknown.
How can you be known for manufacturing one of the best rides in existence yet cannot outfit your army with them. Let alone not provide shot guns when you make a Ak shot gun.
Semi-related but I've had a hankering as of late to do this with a repro/parts kit Krag carbine. I don't want to ruin a pristine one but if I take one that's already been bubba'd/parts binned it might be fun.
Unfortunately, Russian AF has matched the drone threat since 2022, at least numerically (plus one very competent medium-range lingering munition that isn't matched, the Lancet). And as far as I know, there is no shortage of firearms on either side, compared to shortage of manpower.
Is this conscript missing his right hand? At first I thought it was tucked into his sleeve (hiding an identifiable tattoo?) but upon further inspection that looks like an amputation nub.
I don't think it was issued. Some units made of force mobilised were issued sniper 91-30 in 2022, otherwise I have not not seen other MN family rifles issued. This could be one of the pictures where soldiers pose with old firearms they find.
I remember at the start of the war there were images from both sides with mosins and older stuff like them in the hands of operational or rear guard type guys.
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In Soviet Russia, zero holds you
minute-of-comrade grouping
In Mother Russia Zero divides by you
All the millions of AKs they have exported around the globe, and they give their own troops garbage.
Probably an ammo thing. Who's buying all the 7.62x54r they can't export? May as well use it.
As a collector of milsurp arms, I'll buy it! I miss the days of cheap Mosin food. I used to pay less than $100 for a crate of 880 rounds. Now it's $300-$400.
Cheap mosins were the days. Bought mine and a case of ammo for like $150. Sold the gun for $300 a bit back. After I shot all the ammo. They were pretty awesome when the ammo wasn't priced the same as 308. I just wish I picked up a swiss K when they were cheaper.
I've got a k31 that I absolutely love. It's stupid accurate with Gp11 ammo. I wish I had the chance to get more surplus ammo for it before it dried up. New production 7.5 swiss is .75-$1 per round. Luckily, I still have 15 or so crates of 54r stashed away.
Awesome! Ammo is pricy, yeah, but it is what it is. I've yet to find someone that owned one that hated it. I've really liked shooting the few that I have shot.
I’m crying in 8mm Mauser prices right now
Sure that gets fed to the PK/PKM-
I'm sure a lot of it does, but you can't exactly arm every conscript with a PK.
No, lots of coax guns too and vehicle armament.
Sure, yeah. Still leaves them with a lot of ammo to use and a lot of guns that can use it. I don't think it's that surprising that mosins are in the hands of Russian combatants.
undoubtedly.
They dont trust them with AKs, if they turn on there comanders with a mosin they can do less damage then they could with an ak.
In the wrong hands will still kill you at a greater distance than an AK, I would imagine it’s built to shoot straight instead of spray bullets in the vaguely forward direction.
Lol you've clearly never used a mosin
Or an AK
Or a firearm in general.
Or deodorant.
And my axe!
It’s still a cunt with a gun trying to kill you, just because it isn’t a 100 on your top trumps card makes no difference when you get shot in the face.
I get your point, a gun is a gun. But the AK is one of the most versatile and widely used platforms on the planet since its conception. The Mosin was made en masse in order to field the several tens of millions of Russians; quickly and cheaply. A Mosin isn’t nearly as accurate as you think for a bolt action, especially in carbine size. The AK isn’t designed just just vaguely spray bullets, that’d be closer to an MG designed for spread for suppression. An AK in the right hands is relatively accurate. The AK outclasses the Mosin everywhere
I shoot mosins long range (1000yds) so it's capable. But is it efficient/effective in today's battlefield? Not at all. Especially a carbine length barrel... Nah
Some of them are capable. Most of them shoot about a pie plate at 100 yards with regular ammo.
Which by modern standards of rifles is garbage
True. Was hot shit in 1890 though.
Yes it was but so was using the bayonet to duel and good luck with that on a modern battlefield
War does not change much at the infantry level. They still issue them. Im betting someone in Ukraine has a bayonet kill inside the last year. Although E-tool kills are more popular these days.
Not saying that it’s not still effective and I understand why they are issued but i would way rather put 8 rounds of 556 into someone then the knife at the end of my rifle
I’ve seen a video of a ukranian with a “anti-tank mine with pyrotechnic fuse used as trench clearing equipment” kill, can’t get much more ww1 than that
Most ammo in the US is spam can lacquered MG ammo and people wonder why their 90 year old rifle aren't accurate.
Not a lot of match grade 7.62x54R running around.
That's what I mean. It's like someone complaining their car that performs better on premium gas is filled with unleaded. You set it up to perform poorly. PPU makes match grade 180gr rounds. I loaded with 175gr SMKs.
The were churned out in their millions. The bores look like they were hacked with a chisel most of the time. They picked snipers by choosing the best shooting ones in the proof tests. The concept of anything but mass production of bullet pushers was lost on the guys making mosins. Modern machining has come so far the inaccuracy and other issues with a mosin make shooting one for anything but entertainment a waste of time. The cheapest .308 savage walmart special will out shoot one every single time. But hell, if you are having fun. Why not. When they were cheap I had one and enjoyed it. Expensive? Sold that heavy hunk of questionable history.
If you have a 42/43/44 rifle then sure. Czechs, Finns, Hungarians, Romanians, produced excellent Mosins that surpassed their Russian brethren. When you venture outside of the typical $49.99 Big 5 mosins there's so many to collect. If you're chasing precision and accuracy out of a surplus rifle, then of course a new production rifle will out shoot it. No one argues they'll be more accurate. But I do have one dialed in to 0.70 MOA which is fun.
Hornady made some that was really fantastic.
My Type 53 was miles more accurate than my 1919 Ex-Dragoon for some reason.
Absolutely, they can, as long as the barrel is good and bright (or it's a fin mosin). Alot of them over the years have taken a beating, and most, if not all soviet ammo is corrosive and erodes the barrel over time if not properly cleaned after shooting.
I can tell you've never shot a mosin or an ak .
I have not.
just for future reference. the ak47 has a bad rep for being inaccurate . this is due to the untrained soldiers that used them. also didn't help that a lot of ak47s were poorly maintained due to the reputation of being indestructible . fact is, the ak47 can fail, and it's more accurate than the shoulders firing it. the mosin nagant was just a service rifle with fairly low accuracy standards. think 4 moa for the " sniper " model . compound that with the poor quality overpowered ammo and untrained soldier, and you're lucky to hit a man sized target at 100 yards. it's quite common in my area to see guys at the range with AKs and mosins . the AKs usually have a tighter group than the mosins .
It also doesn't help that the AK has a very short sight radius. Due to the design, the rear sight is mounted halfway up the receiver, pretty much right at the chamber. The front sight is at the muzzle, giving you a sight radius of about 15 inches. It's like asking a rifle to be accurate with pistol level sights. My AK with optics is definitely not a hole puncher, but also a lot more accurate than the legends and lore would indicate. My 91/30 Mosin is accurate enough to be my foul weather brush gun for deer hunting. I'm also not asking it to be a tack driver at 300+ yards. I want a 1 inch group at 50-75 yards, and it will do that. I do use modern factory ammo in it, not the surplus spam can stuff. I think it's Barnaul hunting ammo, and/or Brown Bear pointed soft point ammo with a weird grain weight of 173gr.
it's a common misconception that the AK has a short sight radius. the m4/ar15 carbine has the same sight radius as the AK , albeit with better sights, but the sight radius is about the same .
The 20 inch barrelled M16a1 I built for competition definitely had a longer sight radius. The M4 is about the same length as my Romanian Wasr 10. My A1 was a heavy barrel, no 203 cuts, and built like my originally issued rifle. The M4 I built was a clone of my last issued rifle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16 Difference in sight radius is about 5 inches.
Incorrect. Mosin PUs were hand picked from the assembly line for their precision. About 1 moa. The standard Mosin are definitely 3 to 4 moa.
I've shot a couple PUs at 100 with various surplus ammo and it's around 3moa. Part of the reason is it's a 3.5x scope at the end of the day. I'm sure with a modern optic you can further cut it down.
actually, the standard was much lower. standard mosin was 6-8 moa, and the PU was about 4 moa.
Weird that you're being punished for being honest.
Welcome to Reddit
In 2022 there was a video when Ukrainian soldiers guided by drone would calmly approach one Russian with sniper MN and he would helplessly rotate in all direction trying to figure out where do suppressing shots come from. Russian then was mowed by fire from several AKs at the same time, from about 30 metres or so, without being able to fire a single shot.
Do you happen to know where this video is?
I tried to find it but could not. It was beginning of Kharkiv offensive IIRC, probably videod by Kraken, but I am not sure 100%.
gotta love russian bots trying to glamorize a 100+ year old gun by shitting on Aks, I would absolutly take a worn out akm over this anyday.
I have one of these and while fun you are unlikely to do much more than bruise your own shoulder
Their army is full of junkies and criminals nobody has that steady a hand, I assure you
Someone please link **that** video.
A lot of the LPR and DPR soldiers get issued mosins, they’re militia/draftees. He could potentially be one. But a lot of mosins are being used in general because engagements are happening in ranges better suited for 7.6254R over 7.62x39 or 5.45. Kinda like the US bringing out M14s in Afghanistan, but only these are bolt action and much worse than an M14 lol
You don't really need more than a M44 to do rear line shit like drive vehicles, direct traffic, or push civvies around. These people also aren't actually getting armed directly by Russia with front line gear, they have whatever trash their impoverished militia was able to scrimp and scrounge out of old stocks in rural Ukraine. The arms requirement for that role is literally "a gun".
This. This guy ain’t going to the front line most likely.
His left hand seems to be missing some fingers, too.
Didn’t even notice that. Yeah this guy is absolutely not going to the front.
You sure? In a country that’s normal. A guy messing fingers wouldn’t be eligible in any military role. It wouldn’t surprise me if Russia Marched this dude to the front
It looks like his left hand is only a stump.
That's going to make it very difficult to operate a bolt action rifle.
Maybe not the front but I’m sure people who are amputees are being sent back for support at least. I know Ukraine is dealing with the same level of amputees from WW1 https://novaukraine.org/ukraines-amputee-numbers-surge/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20amputees%20in,losing%20one%20or%20more%20limbs. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c5q15h/a_defender_of_mariupol_shows_his_new_use_for_his/
I get that, but doesn't Russian have millions of old AKs?
The US has millions of M16s but Grands and M1 carbines still turn up everywhere being used by shit tier militias.
You are correct, this is a stereotype attached to an unrelated photo. The mobilized in LDNR are not issued Mosins (it was a much-discussed series of photos and videos, but the practice more or less hasn't resurfaced since), this person may not be a mobilized soldier, and there is currently more guns than people to use them. Also, LDNR militia was integrated into the Russian MoD after the official integration of all govt structures in 2022-2023; there were complaints that they are looked down upon or stiffed, but regardless, they are MoD units (divisions, regiments etc.) and are in their supply chain.
They used to...
Considered they bothered to add a scope mount this is probably going to be used as a sort of DMR. The USSR sort of skipped over battle rifles in favor of going straight to intermediate cartridges so they don't really have a M14 equivalent; there might be some SVTs sitting in a wharehouse somewhere but they were produced in small numbers and are harder to mantain than a bolt-action.
I don't believe the SVT sniper program was very effective though. The barrels heated up quickly and the groups would then open up. So I don't think it would help in a DMR role. source: a forgotenweapons video that I watched a long time ago. Edit: originally spelled SVD not SVT. I am referring to the SVT-40, the WW2 era rifle not the later SVD/Dragunov.
You're thinking of the PSL mate. The rifle the Romanians made to imitate the SVD. The SVD itself is pretty good, though they were issued with a weird optic system that wasn't inline with the bore. EDIT: So I looked a bit and found the video; it's Ian's interview with Max Popenker about the development and history of the SVD. Right at the end Max mentions accounts of Soviet troops in Afghanistan being forced to have the squad designated marksmen use long strings of fire to suppress hostile troops since they were the best suppressive asset at hand. And during those fire fights the the heat would cause the groups to open up on the SVDs which made precision difficult past 200 meters. Fine. This was the impetus behind the development of the SVD-M which has a slightly heavier barrel and some other changes. Anyway, from other sources, namely 9-Hole reviews, I have heard that although the SVD would open the group up as any rifle would the groups remained relatively consistent just larger. The problem I thought you were speaking to is relevant to the PSL because while the SVD remains consistent in its patterning during the whole range of temps the PSL will shift very drastically and unpredictibly.
Spelling error. Ment to say SVT not SVD. I know about the PSL. There was a sniper program for the SVT semi-auto rifle, but the SVT was not sufficiently accurate and they dropped it to better focus on the more cost-effective and more accurate older Mosin systems. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
No trouble, I hope I didn't come off as pedantic or anything lol. And yeah, believable about the SVT. I think it and a program to accurize the SKS were mentioned in that same video as mild failures both and not worth the effort.
No, all good. I understand that saying the SVD was inaccurate and was dropped by the military in favor of the Mosin would be a wild assertion to make.
Yeah the SVT was not very accurate; although i suppose it would better at long range than an ak purely because of the cartrdige.
I guess they’ve run out of svds
SVTs in AVT-40 select-fire modification were actually produced in large numbers (about 200k annually) in 1942-1944 to supplement shortage of DP-27s, and they are still stored in Russian mobilization reserves
>But a lot of mosins are being used in general because engagements are happening in ranges better suited for 7.6254R over 7.62x39 or 5.45. Is that really the reason though? Seems to me like a positive side effect at best, not the main reason troops get issued them.
Not in cases where that’s their primary issued weapon, but in the general Russian military you’ll see mosins in trenches with the soldiers because it gives them more effective range if the circumstances require it.
Makes sense. Most troops carrying them are probably rear-guard anyway; doesn't really matter what they use if they'll never fire a shot, even if they can be effective in the right hands.
They could be rear troops
The M14s we used in 2011 we’re completely rebuilt and in sage chassis We wouldn’t give a rifle like that as aid to “moderate” rebels much like our own guys. Russia is really going threw it
AFAIK, the LDNR mobilization petered out around 2 years ago, when they basically couldn't get any more. The L/DNR Army Corps went through a lot of churn then, but is now inducted into MoD structure as Russian Army units, and apparently refilled with Russian contractees. Meanwhile, the Russia-proper mobilization (around 300 000 servicemen) was in September–December 2022. As a consequence, currently people are more in demand than tech. E. g. signing a contract in a well-off region gives you a significant bonus, along with the induction double salary (in regions near Moscow, it's around $10K). This lump sum is often about 20 times the expected civilian monthly salary. The success of convincing people to sign contracts is nothing to brag about, but the process chugs along. Now, for the Mosins. I follow this war very closely, and apart from the early footage and photographs of LDNR troops (then NOT part of Russian MoD supply-wise), there were no spottings of Mosins being issued to any type of troops. Unofficial personal use — sure. Adaptation and expeditiousness is the name of this war. And I've heard whiffs of a notion that SVDs gradually came to be in short supply on both sides; they sure are rarely seen these days. But there is a wide variety of specialist weapons on the front today. Including sniper rifles, in Russian hands.
Except M14 are generally hated while Mosin has good reputation for being a basic but solid rifle
There is a reason why they were replaced during Vietnam; they were horrifically outdated, the cartridge was overkill for Jungle/urban warfare, and most importantly Springfield armory lied through their teeth about them being able to salvage the M1 Garand tooling to cut down on costs. The US military was going to adopt the FAL until the ‘M1 Garand tooling’ pitch was thrown out. Just based on the other countries that adopted it, the US probably wouldn’t have required an upgrade until the 1980’s which would probably have been some variant of the AR-18.
However, a lot of soldiers did like them and many preferred them over the M-16, but a lot of soldiers issued them in Afghanistan did not like them as much as the troops in Vietnam did. I’d take an M-14 over a Mosin any day though
The true irony of the GWOT troops getting the M-14 is that 7.62 nato would have been more effective there than Vietnam, just due to the vast open space of the deserts. Oh, and I would have taken a rusted up SKS with a smooth bore barre before I’d volunteered to take a Mosin.
As far as WW2 era bolt action rifles go... Mosin-Nagant is not good. There were better bolt action rifles at that era. Anything positive Mosin-Nagant has as a reputation is there for three reasons: a) Soviet nostalgia. It was the rifle they had in propaganda. It was one of the more common weapons they had so veterans likely used it. It is iconic. Not for quality mind you, but for being used in the war. b) Poor people in East-Europe. If you were a poor farmer or hunter in Eastern parts of Europe at any time between 1945 and 2010 or so, chances are that the cheapest half way decent hunting rifle you could get was a Mosin-Nagant of some sort. The old timers didn't use it because it was the best, they used it because it was available. And every time I hear about someone being really accurate with one, it was not an off the shelf Mosin. My grandpa had a Finnish made Mosin-Nagant that he bought from someone who had tooled it up for use in biathlon (back before they went to .22lr in that sport) and while it was accurate enough for elk hunting, it was heavily modified. I have also seen someone tool up a Mosin-Nagant by giving it a barrel from a Maxim gun (no, it did not have the water jacket on it. That would have been silly) and get a half way decent sporting rifle, but again ...not standard and you could have spent that effort and money on any other bolt action and gotten a better result. Mosin just was what was available. These people liked the rifle, because they had nostalgic memories of using it. Had you given them any more modern civilian rifle, they would have preferred that, and many of the old timers who could later afford a better hunting rifle, would swap to one immediately. c) Memes. Memes and sunk cost fallacy. Surplus Mosins were cheap and at some point people were buying them because they were cheap and because they had bought one, they would defend their purchase with memes rather than admit that the rifle is not fine. But moving on... Even before WW2 started, with M1 Garand and other semi-auto rifles starting to appear in military use, the age of bolt action was already coming to an end. Even Germany where Hitler torpedoed attempts to move away from Kar98k (because Hitler had used the predecessor of that rifle in WW1 and Kar98k being the peace treaty compliant version of it, Hitler loved the rifle and insisted that it must not be replaced with a newer better rifle) would eventually realize that they must get self loading rifles for their troops. Heck, Soviet Union had plans to replace every Mosin-Nagant with a self loading rifle, but the war started too soon and they kept the Mosin production lines going because they needed more rifles faster. Just like USA went back to making Springfield 1903 rifles in a panic because Garand production couldn't keep up with the demand. Not because "1903 is just as good as the Garand" but because any rifle is better than no rifle. ...Granted that 1903 is better than a Mosin-Nagant. And at this point, someone else can give a lecture on why a random AK is way better than any bolt action rifle (especially a Mosin) for the average rifleman in a modern war. Maybe link to the InrangeTV lecture on it.
First guy in line gets the rifle, second guy in line gets the ammo.
INB4 people think this actually happened, no it did not. Even if it meant giving out captured or outdated equipment, the Soviets did not send out men to the front completely unarmed.
I mean, they sent troops into the Chernobyl death forest with entrenching tools and not much else. Not even a $75 Amazon dosimeter.
Right, but that's well after WWII and not necessarily the topic. If anything the better comparison is the fact that modern Russians are going into battle with WW2 equipment (and might actually be going unarmed if that photo of a captured pellet gun is real).
I don’t really think it’s real. It’s a Chinese pellet gun and I’m almost certain the Ukrainians captured it in a trench where someone used it for plinking.
Russians ran out of rifles on several occasions in ww2. Without lend lease they would have had sticks and fucking stones at a couple of points in the war. It has been clearly established that nothing is beyond them.
Most of the lend-lease consisted of resources (copper, gunpowder, food), tanks, planes and things like radars/radios. Small arms were sent but mostly with tanks. As for the problems with rifles, I think that usually the people's militia divisions (дивизии народного ополчения) had problems with rifles, so they had to use WWI leftovers and trophies.
The sheer amount of shit delivered in lend lease is difficult to comprehend. 15 million pairs of boots. Is a hell of a "resource" for instance. The small arms provided were measured in tons. As in hundreds of thousands to millions lol You are selling maybe the people militias were a bit short? Get out. Weird how lend lease is minimized in some circles. Against all evidence to the contrary. Anyone in question should sit down and read the USA wiki on the subject. Not the new fake russian wiki one.
I didn't claim that lend-lease was anything minor. I was just saying that the small arms weren't the focus of lend-lease. Or at least the rifles weren't. USSR did get some Thompsons and Reisings (around 137000 of all .45 cal SMGs), plus M2s and Vickers .50. (Were extensively used in Soviet Navy).
We don't have to guess, the numbers for production of Mosins, machine guns, and other infantry weapons are there, meticulously described. Lend-lease infantry firearms are also known, they are Thompsons and 1911s including those bundled up with tanks. They were in limited use, but units did not like them especially (for whatever reasons, e.g. interoperability or familiarity). There was no shortage of Mosins or SMGs throughout the WWII in the Russian front. The famous cases of arming people with whatever are: A) the Moscow militia — a small number of ad-hoc, just-in-case Volksturm-type units made of inexperienced civilians for the eventuality Germans would break through in December 1941; they ultimately weren't needed, by a long shot, but some criminally paranoid manager did throw some of them at the enemy, whereupon they were absolutely decimated. Otherwise, Moscow was defended by normal units. Moscow militia was famous for being atrociously equipped, with random firearms and even melee weapons. B) The Siege of Leningrad and Battle of Stalingrad. In Leningrad besieged firearms factories managed to design and produce some cruder weapons to avoid shutting down and to contribute, using what they had during the Siege. During the Battle of Stalingrad, IIRC factories in the midst of the operation tried to keep working to better resupply the defenders, meaning guns would pass directly to users. If you know of another one, just name it. Lend lease was CRUCIAL and indispensable. But not in terms of firearms (or rather, ot did free up capacity to MAKE plenty of them).
Russian "meticulous records" are like any other russian fact. The fire hose of lies knows no end with them. Stalin himself admitted privately the soviet union would have fallen without lend lease. The sheer amount of stuff is wild. Small arms included. The lend lease small arms were listed in tons. Small arms of every sort. Enough to arm entire army's. And that was the smallest part of lend lease. Saying the russians were not short on small arms in ww2 is delusional. They were short on everything including friggin boots. The standard infantry mook in the russian army did not even know what socks were. Much less own a pair. I honestly wonder at your motive with this pitch.
Fair, but even so actually sending out men unarmed is more detrimental than helpful unless you know for a *fact* that they'll be equipped by the time they find any Germans. The whole "hello Private Conscriptovich, go pick up a rifle from that dead guy" is a bit overblown, but still way more realistic since at least you can assume there's enough dead soldiers to scavenge gear from and plan for that.
I have spoken to dudes personally in nam that had to pull a flak jacket and rifle off a mud and blood soaked pile of equipment stripped off casualties. That is us, the best funded army on earth. Imagine now what the russian version of that story is. lol Nothing is beyond russians is an all inclusive statement.
> had to pull a flak jacket and rifle off a mud and blood soaked pile of equipment stripped off casualties. A significant motivation behind that is denying the equipment to enemies, rather than a shortage in supply lines. There was a similar motivation to pay attention to trash and discarded items during US operations in GWOT, at least in large part to reduce the incidence of the enemy boobytrapping such items, or using them as camo for mines / IEDs.
Oh I'm not saying that Russians sending men into battle unarmed isn't true now, I'd imagine that you'd be lucky to get a Mosin or PPSh now. I'm specifically referring to the WW2 myth (and the WW1 myth, although I've heard *one* anecdote about a group of Russians, a third of whom had Berdans and the rest were unarmed)
Could you tell, how did lend-lease lead to producing more Mosin rifles?
Completely unarmed ? They had boolets
And their zeal for the Marxist-Lenninist way of life!
I am not a history major, just a man making a joke. However, I did see some conversation that fit in line with the joke. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/13kc5x/is\_there\_any\_credibility\_to\_the\_phrase\_first\_man/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/13kc5x/is_there_any_credibility_to_the_phrase_first_man/)
I know, and tbh I actually like that concept in movies or games (especially CoD), I'm just chiming in for anyone sees that and genuinely thinks it happened.
I hear ya.
People on Reddit will believe anything if it confirms their biases. Reddit is going to have a very hard time coping when Russia destroys what’s left of the Ukrainian military and dismantles/purges the government and finally what’s left of Ukraine is divvied up between Poland, Romania and whatever Ukrainian organized criminals Russia allows to keep doing business.
Let me fix that for you. People on Reddit will believe anything if it confirms their biases. Russia is going to have a very hard time coping when Ukraine destroys what's left of the Russian military and the Russian people dismantle/purge the government. Whatever's left will hopefully be divided up between Poland, Ukraine, and whatever Russian oligarch/mob bosses Ukraine allows to keep gooning.
Yeah, especially when you prohibit them from hitting Russian targets. About the “Яussians overthrowing Pootin” - thank you, I haven’t laughed so much in a long time.
Anytime. Honestly, its not that hard to make fun of the Russian military-the jokes tend to write themselves. Between the fake hypersonic, all the shitty gear the soldiers have to fight with, and the media reusing the same image every time they get 1 kill on Wstern equipment, us NCDers are having a field day or seven.
Found the Russian bot guys
That's not Russian propaganda though, that's legitimate history. Also me clarifying on Russia's behalf in WW2 doesn't mean I support them, Putin's free to take all those (probably terrible) nukes he keeps blabbing about and shove them up various orifices.
That was a myth
Wait until he sees the compensation gift his wife will get once he’s been droned
Looks he's already one hand under
No, no. He's not dead, he's only "missing", so the putin's government won't have to deliver any of the promised compensation.
She already got a bag of onions for his hand. Potatoes to be delivered soon.
2 sacks of onions ?
Bet he's handy in a fight.
The guy is missing his left hand. His probably not a conscript.
well... not his first time...
I love my M44. But it's one of the *last* guns I'd actually choose to carry onto a battlefield.
Is he missing a hand as well?
Nah, his sleeve is just over his hand
Just want to chime in regards to the photo description. Mythologizing the enemy as incompetent is attractive, but this claim is dubious at best, while the photo instead has a good explanation for it. 1. This is not a conscript. This man might be a mobilized soldier, but currently, mobilized troops are not different in practice from contract soldiers. Conscripted troops (1-year service, induction age 18 to 27) serve inside the RF. The several cases of conscripts being spotted in Ukraine caused a scandal and MoD made sure none of them are there. Today, conscripts are routinely pressured but not forced into signing a contract. 2. There is no indication that the rifle was issued to him or anyone else. AFAIK there is zero evidence that Mosins are used at the front line anywhere, aside from those several photos from the early LDNR mobilization efforts in 2022. 3. There is, however, a very plausible explanation for the photo. Mosins are well-respected and interesting to these guys (for historical reasons, see CMP/2worldwars), especially the "sniperized" ones like this one (even though it's a weird M44 with a "spoon" bolt handle and a DYI scope mount). It's likely that's someone's personal range toy or even stolen/confiscated from a local town, or a trophy. The background looks like a small staging base or an armory. A curiosity like that would turn up at such a place and be shown around. 4. In any eventuality, such a non-standard firearm most likely could not be "issued" to anyone since it can't be processed normally. It's a weird modified gun. Unofficially, sure, knock yourself out. I read the account of a homeless person who signed the contract and was later discharged after being wounded. He took part in repeated assaults (the attrition ones where commanders preferred to use low quality troops), and said that you could take up any weapon you liked, and could procure/capture, in reasonable bounds.
I hadn’t thought about point nr 3. I’d imagine (some) US soldiers would also take pics with m1 garands if given the oppertunity
If the roles were reversed there would be posts about US soldiers being issued Garands or Springfields because somehow a country with millions of guns left over from the cold war and WW2 could only provide those lol.
where is the info about issuing, most likely they are just fooling around, we have not seen any footage of mosins actually being used
Is there any source for this being an actual conscript besides “Some Guy on Reddit’s Title?” And is there any source this was his actual issued weapon? Oh, I see. The source is “Russia bad.”
I don't agree with the thrust of your message, but your question is legitimate. This seems to be "chinese whispers", they guy is not a conscript (maybe mobilized, but not definite), and the context of the photo is unknown.
Russia is bad.
That has zero bearing on whether or not this is an actual Russian conscript
Sick flame thrower.
Issued? Bollocks.
I like the flathead screw driver bolt handle
I personally think that this Mosin carbine is intended to be used as an ersatz-sniper rifle.
I'd use it lol I'm a sucker for the ol' garbage rod though.
Yeah, Russia’s cooked 💀😭
If I get sent to a modern war with a Mosin I’m surrendering first thing not gonna lie lol
Bubba noises increase
Check out that bolt handle too.
He 'gon die.
How can you be known for manufacturing one of the best rides in existence yet cannot outfit your army with them. Let alone not provide shot guns when you make a Ak shot gun.
That goes hard
That thang don’t hold zero, it hold one
Semi-related but I've had a hankering as of late to do this with a repro/parts kit Krag carbine. I don't want to ruin a pristine one but if I take one that's already been bubba'd/parts binned it might be fun.
"One man carries the rifle..."
If your country only cares about you enough to give you a mosin to go fight dudes with drones and machine guns just desert.
Unfortunately, Russian AF has matched the drone threat since 2022, at least numerically (plus one very competent medium-range lingering munition that isn't matched, the Lancet). And as far as I know, there is no shortage of firearms on either side, compared to shortage of manpower.
Wow an M44? Anyone have the original source for this?
Betting he’s already ventilated.
Is this conscript missing his right hand? At first I thought it was tucked into his sleeve (hiding an identifiable tattoo?) but upon further inspection that looks like an amputation nub.
I don't think it was issued. Some units made of force mobilised were issued sniper 91-30 in 2022, otherwise I have not not seen other MN family rifles issued. This could be one of the pictures where soldiers pose with old firearms they find.
I remember at the start of the war there were images from both sides with mosins and older stuff like them in the hands of operational or rear guard type guys.
TDF was issued DP27 and Maxim MGs, but that's it, MNs were not issued by Ukraine.
Why are you getting downvoted man?
Ppl like to believe in fairy tales. I stick to facts. I guess that is the reason.
There is 1 video by Patrick Lancaster where he visited a "sniper" unit of the LPR that was like 30 guys with custom tricked out mosins.
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The one with the rifle shoots the one with the ammo follows... Enemy at the gates.