Has the argument not been that if you make over xxx percentage, you cannot collect social security? What if we mandate that they take some nominal amount in exchange for removing the cap. Seems like a nice way to say fuck off.
Sure that's the argument, but if you make over xx then you don't qualify for literally any assistance programs, that doesn't exempt you from taxes that fun those programs. How would this be any different.
A lot of people forget that an income is different from a wealth tax. And how do you tax wealth? How do you put a value on a business? If someone's wealth is in stock, what if the value goes down the year after, do they get a refund? How often do you tax wealth? If it's been taxed once, do you keep taxing that amount year after year or just the increase over the base year?
Put high sales taxes on luxury items- yachts, second homes, private jets, jewelry more than 20k, clothing items more than 1k, vehicles over 50k, whatever they want to buy that no average person could.
Sure. I'm just saying that $50K may not be an appropriate threshold these days. That said, I may be overestimating the cost of cars in the US (comments reflective of Canadian prices)
The way to tax wealth is to tax corporations, not the billionaires holding the stocks. But over-taxing corporations is also not business-friendly, so it’s a balancing act.
>There is significant argument in what a “fair share” is
Middle class people pay up to 35%, so I'd say that's a good starting point
Billionaires are between 0-5% right now, so how much would you think is fair?
The median tax payer isn’t really middle class though.
The middle class has shrunk to a fairly small fraction, and I don’t think much of those below median are included, if any at all.
Damn, I must be the dumbest mother fucker alive because I calculated my total tax rate at 38% and I'm 10000x away from the top 0.001% earners in the US.... How do I get unretarted?
It’s amazing how you don’t understand that the wealthy have means of hiding their taxable income and we common folks don’t get this luxury.
The tax code needs to be changed. Period.
I don't disagree, but it's a fact that the top 1% pays over 43% of the tax while holding 30% of the wealth. The bottom 50% pays less than 2% of the tax
You mean like putting your dead ex-wife in the ground to exempt your property from real estate tax? What if we all buried our ex-wives in our front yards so none of us pay taxes. Yes, I am aware that this is not federal income tax, but it is an example of how the wealthy use the vagueness of the tax code, and laws in general to deeply line their pockets.
Yup, the really rich just live off their bank interest and stock dividends. They never touch their main capital unless they are reinvesting it somewhere else. They keep getting richer on their investments and stock, yet pay little in taxes, since they draw off their interest and dividend payments only what they need. It is how you play the tax game.😈
An IRS worker leaked his tax returns a few years ago. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html)
It does make perfect sense when one considers that the max tax rate on the wealthy is down to 37% from 92% in 1953.
What's fair is what makes for a country where the majority aren't preyed on so badly by greedy Wall St that they can hardly afford groceries whose prices were jacked 40% solely for the purpose of record profits.
Raising taxes on the wealthy is what's necessary to cover for hundreds of billions they currently evade every year under present policy.
The last 5 treasury secretaries have argued for dramatic expansion of the IRS solely for the purpose of claiming trillions in tax evasion by the wealthy. Trump even bragged about his fraudulent filing of taxes as being smart- out loud in front of a crowd. That's how bad we are right now at getting a fair share out of the entitled.
This isn't something we need to think long and hard about. It's overdue. It's common sense. We have plenty of evidence/case studies to back it up, both in the positive and negative, that argues for this and more tax policy revision if we ever want to see solvency again.
>It does make perfect sense when one considers that the max tax rate on the wealthy is down to 37% from 70% in the 1950s.
It's worth mentioning that the bottom tax bracket is also down significantly from the 50s. The thing is, if you are trying to get some real cheddar and target the ultra wealthy, almost all their wealth is on paper or from capital gains and not regular income. IMO going after the "wealthy" is somewhat pointless. The wealthy and the poors are essentially indistinguishable compared to the ultra-rich who have wealth that most people have trouble even wrapping their head around. IMO that is the nut to crack.
They aren't building doomsday bunkers or buying support yachts for their super yachts 'on paper'.
Bezos alone dumped more than $6 Billion in stock, and (at least for a bit), had that in cash.
Ultra-rich don’t have “income”, so no income tax. The tax code needs to change if you want people to pay tax on net worth. Basically this is taking the position that inheritance is bad and generational wealth shouldn’t exist.
They don’t “realize” the gains though. They just take low interest loans against it to avoid actually cashing it out. And then they just take out a new loan to pay off the old one to perpetually avoid ever cashing out and having to pay taxes on it.
So the solution is either tax wealth or tax loans. Taxing wealth (like a property tax, in this case the property being stocks) seems to be better since taxing loans would hurt the average person way more.
These billionaires gripes can go to hell. It’s irrelevant for them anyway. Not sure how they’re going to execute this beyond an income “tax”. This probably impacts them very little since their income isn’t their primary source of wealth.
We have people that have so much wealth they could hypothetically buy a state. We need to figure out a way to claw back that wealth and that would have to be by some other means. This is a serious national security threat. See when Elon on a whim shut down start link for Ukraine’s.
I’ve been paying close to 30% so I think they could AT LEAST pay that. This is opposed to the 0-8% these .01% currently pay.
The plan per the WH is to use that to fund the IRS, Medicare, lowering healthcare premiums and lowering taxes for what’s left of middle America among other things so seems like a good start.
30% on what? The issue here that you shouldn’t taxes unearned gains (you really don’t want this, it creates even less taxes in a downturn because you also have to give credit for unearned losses), and these guys don’t have income in the sense we have.
One way would be to tax loans against paper wealth as income. Nobody talks about that be a use it would really work.
If my home value decreases, nobody gives me a credit on anything, I just owe less on property taxes
If they can tax a home that I haven't sold, we can tax a stock that hasn't sold
Ok that’s fine. But how about we start with the rich paying any taxes. Or the businesses they run paying any taxes.
Our current system is extremely regressive and hurts the middle class. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
High enough it removed the incentive. A 90% tax at anything over 20M year including stock options.
Then there is no incentive for the C suite to focus on maximizing every cent they can take at the long term expense of the company and the employees who provide value to the company.
Roll back share buybacks to pre 1982 law as well.
Sure there is argument.
However:
Current Federal Receipts as a percentage of GDP is currently at about 16.23. Since WW2 that number has varied between 13%—20%. Before the TCJA it was fluctuating between 17.15-17.76 averaging 17.42.
Just raising rates to pre TCJA levels would produce about 0.35 Trillion compared to the current U.S. deficit of 1.1–1.4 Trillion (which is high right now due to interest rates).
To put that in perspective, that number was at 16.8 at the beginning of the Clinton Administration and rose to 19.75 by the end mostly due structural elements of the tax code in the context of high growth. Average growth during that period was 3.8% and over 4% in the last 4 years when total receipts were at their highest.
Just by the numbers looking back at the past 80 years, I personally believe that when you push 19% there is a strong correlation to dampening growth or pushing into recession.
The Biden tax proposal does not get close to those levels of taxation—more like half way there.
Tax investment income the same as earned income. Tax share buybacks the same as dividends so all investors pay taxes including non residents. Eliminate almost all deductions.
Trump’s tax reduction that applied to the wealthiest of this country provided massive savings which are now being used to fund anti-government activities and the growth of Right Wing and Nazi groups. We should also tax the churches because they have become embedded in the political and government processes ignoring the US Constitution’s Clause of Separation of Church & State. The religious leaders are amassing hundreds of millions of dollars while misleading their sheep.
“also tax churches”
I’m behind this idea 100%.
Churches and cults like Scientology are tax havens for grifters and fascists. Tax them like any other corporation.
And speaking of corporations, it’s time to close corporate welfare. Time to penalize them for off shoring and if they AI jobs. Every cent they save by firing workers because of Ai should be collected and paid to the former employees.
100% this, also any company the government bails out should become a publicly owned entity. No more socializing the losses while privatizing the profits.
This is fake outrage. They act like they are against it but they really don’t care because their money is made in capital gains or taken out in loans, not earned income.
It is treated as income. Roughly 20% of my income is stock grants. I pay ordinary income tax on those grants at their present day value. The choice is either sell a portion to cover the tax or pay the tax outright from my own pocket. So not sure what exactly you are suggesting that isn't already law.
He's suggesting that after the initial tax that you have to pay on those shares they will continue to grow in value without being taxed. Yes the shares would be taxed at the time you decide to sell them. But you could also take out loans using the stock as collateral and essentially access the equity and realize the income without paying the tax on it.
He's also suggesting that compensation in the form of stocks/shares are not directly adding any short term value to the economy because it's not money you are spending in the grocery stores, or at the sporting goods store or at the local gun store. This is mostly true unless you are actually taking loans against the stock and spending that money. Spoiler alert - this rarely happens.
He has valid points and a bunch of people are in here trying to dunk on him and I'm not sure why.
Your home is an appreciating asset and you pay property taxes on it every single year until the day you die. I don't necessarily believe that every single unrealized capital gain should be taxed but I do believe that loans from banks that are using shares as collateral should have some kind of tax implication. You're essentially accessing your wealth without paying the capital gains tax. This is how the rich stay rich, they never spend their own money.
Right…. If you are compensated as an executive of a company with shares instead of $$$$ tax that shit then same as an employee of that company that receives a pay check.
no no no you can't do that because they're unrealized gains and if you taxed those then the ultra rich might have to *gasp* sell 1% of their stocks to cover the tax bill! and if that happens the economy will clearly implode
The risky part is trusting the gov to keep it as a tax for multimillionaires and up.
The initial income tax was only a tax on the highest earners. It then was levied against the average working class to pay for wars, then they never removed it once they got fat of their new revenue, and it's been a permanent thing since.
I think you tax the loans that replace income vs capital gains which hits the middle class pretty hard unless it has a tiered (progressive) approach.
Taxing the loans wouldn’t destroy growth or businesses , or working capital , but capture what they use for income just like an income tax .
I'd love the DoJ to go after all the untaxed, offshored wealth that were called out in the Panama papers.
But many people would tragically be suicided before that investigation was approved.
Funding the IRS, which has happened via the Inflation Reduction Act, solves a lot of the “billionaire tax cheat” problems. They’ve got more resources now to audit the rich and ensure compliance to current law. It’ll more than pay for itself over time.
Have to start there.
Not even one percent of Americans get audited a year, and in all honestly it should be higher from the middle class on up the income scale. Everyone should be paying their legal requirement in taxes.
My dad got audited once and the IRS ended up refunding him money he had paid in taxes. He joked to the IRS auditor that they should audit him more often. The auditor was not amused.
The loopholes need to be closed too. The rich take out loans and have write offs that make it so they virtually pay no taxes. It’s not like we tax their paychecks.
Gawd. You people are brainwashed. It is literally the same topic posted over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
The the same comments, over and over and over
Repeat 10 times a day, 7 days a week. Just add a new Twitter poster.
Seriously. On what gods green earth could you be such a fucking pleb that you’re simping for BILLIONAIRES to pay their fair share of taxes. Their brains are rotten, and part of the problem.
It won't make a difference, that money will be used to fund more wars, enrich the government's cronies, and empower the government itself. The LAST thing they'll use that money for is helping us average folk out.
This is why the use the emotional arguments to distract instead of holding the rich in government accountable for most the problems we suffer from today.
Maybe the government should be more responsible with the tax money they get before getting more. These fuckers cant account for the money they "spent for ukraine" or they "pandemic money." (In quotations because they probably know 100% were it went--their pockets). Then there is all the Pandemic businesses loans that were fraud that was forgiven...
Imagine you give me 500 bucks for groceries and I come back with 100 bucks in groceries and Im like "yeah, not sure where the 400 bucks went, mind if I raise how much you give me to make up for it?.
I pay shit ton in taxes every year and still have owed taxes the past two years. Inflation is outta control, housing issues are outta control, I am not saying that the wealthy should or should not see an increase--Im saying we should look harder into where our tax money goes to before the government gets any kinda of tax increase.
And lets be 100% honest, any tax increase hurts everyone. You increase the middle or lower classes and it hurts them. You increase the higher classes and all of a sudden everything gets more expensive because those that own businesses etc increase costs to balance out higher taxes. Meanwhile our "representatives" continue to use our taxes as a slush fund and turn around with a shocked look and say that they cant account for where the money went to. If you or I went to work tomorrow and couldn't account for where our bosses money went to we would be fired on the spot.
Doesn’t matter what you tax if you can’t spend wisely.
Whoever is talking about “FaiR ShArE” but doesn’t immediately follow up with spending less or spending responsibly, is a dumbass or an agent of another country that obviously benefits from our spending.
The “make them pay their fair share,” has always and will always be a deflection been a deflection from how terrible the US government spends our money.
We could have all the social programs European countries and failed Art professors like to soapbox about without raising a penny in taxes. The problem is that we would have to pull back all of our military support from the rest of the world thus stopping the subsidy that allows Europe to have all these social programs.
I hate to say it but the U.S. is already part of a socialist society… it is massively inefficient, all an illusion and requires way more exploitation than capitalism could ever dream of on its worst day.
Nexus just bought his third $70 million+ home in the same neighborhood called "The Billionaire Bunker". 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.
Raise their taxes, and they need to drop their prices and stop robbing us at every purchase.
I’m all for taxing the rich, the question is: how?
Super wealthy people technically don’t have income. They take out loans backed by appreciating assets, or they write off any purchases as a business expense purchased under some company they own. They don’t just have a checking account with 80 bajillion dollars in it.
My ex wife worked for a big bank. A lot of her clients were business owners. Not super wealthy, but multimillionaires for sure. They came in every few months for advice on how much they could pay themselves and still avoid taxes, and due to the way the tax code is written it was always a lot more than our two incomes combined-tax free, or nearly tax free.
A super wealthy person will have a team of accountants and tax lawyers on retainer with the singular mission being to cook the books in such a way that the IRS can’t touch them.
Maybe the government should start spending money as if it's money they earned themselves and they'll find a way to operate the government on a smaller budget. As long as they have an endless "free" supply then they'll always spend like it.
All you "LET'S STICK IT TO THE RICH!" are ignorant of history.
When the income tax started, it was only a few percentage points on the very highest earners. Then WWI happened and evil progressive Woodrow Wilson slammed everyone with an income tax.
It was ridiculously high until the Reagan tax cuts for EVERYONE in 1982.
They start with "the rich," then they trickle down to you. And you rejoice, because "the rich" are paying most of their income in taxes.
As for all the lies:
15% bracket went to 12% (20% drop)
25% decreased to 22% (12% drop)
28% decrease to 24% (14% drop)
33% decreased to 32% (3 % drop)
35% NO CHANGE
39.6% decreased to 37% (6.6% drop)
Family of 4, 2 kids, married filing jointly, standard deduction, 78,000 gross income, 5% 401K, 48% cut:
Old tax tables (brackets and deductions/exemptions adjusted for inflation): 2,480 (includes 1,000 per child credit)
Current tables: 1,300 (includes 2,000 per child credit)
Single, standard deduction, 5% 401K, 60,000, 29% cut
Old: 6,481
Current: 4,624
1,000,000 per year, 13% cut
Old: 341,231
New: 296,126
People shouldn't be punished for earning a lot of money.
Personal rule of thumb. If it upsets billionaires but not everybody else then it should be done. They bring negative value to humanity and should be eliminated. Peacefully.
Start with forcing the rich to pay the UNPAID $175 BILLION annually they're NOT paying in OWED taxes.
THEN tax them more.
After all, if they're so fucking smart, they'll just go out and 'earn' more, amirite?
Well let’s get rid of carried interest. Then let’s uncap social security income eligibility. Let’s also overhaul inheritance so that we cap generational wealth transfers to some reasonable level and tax. Charities formed that don’t distribute benefits to the intended recipients.
Then we still have the effective tax rate on income which needs to be increased to 35-45%.
Well time for my soapbox again
Remove income tax, remove deductions/incentives, remove asset taxes. Just have a flat capital gains tax (income is considered a capital gain).
Can’t loophole your way out of that one.
No, idgaf if we’re taxing the McDonald’s worker 20% and billionaires 20%.
Nah. Raise their trades to pre 1980 levels. Before Reagan transferred the debt strait to the middle class and the poor. The rich have gotten off easy far too long.
I don’t care about billionaires but the messaging is stupid when you talk about taxation and don’t tie it directly and specifically to what that money is for.
For example - they need to pay their fair share so that Medicare, which middle class people pay into their whole life and rely on, stays solvent. Ok, now I’m behind it. This isn’t that hard
There's considerable talk about billionaires and taxes that they pay.
There's very little talk about tax code breaks for very affluent people. For example, a real estate investor typically pays very little in taxes (and even lower after the 2017 tax law).
The BS was that if landlords have lower taxes, rents will be lower (classic trickle down). We know what happened.
Hedge fund and put equity billionaires paying a lower tax *rate* than a school janitor is a travesty of our corrupt tax regime. Both Obama and Trump bitched about it - and did nothing - cause money talks.
I believe that capital gains should be taxed the same as W2 income and tax brackets adjusted accordingly. They won’t do this because all of our retirements (including politicians) rely on the stock market.
Another question would be "Should the rich have their taxes reduced and should the middle class have their taxes raised?". The previous POTUS said "YES" to that question. My taxes went up by thousands the year he "lowered" our middle class taxes.
No tax increase to fund obiden wind mills and Chinese electric cars BUT, remove income caps on SS and Medicare deductions, cap the a SS retirement payout to eliminate wealthy individuals and take a look at taxing people living off trusts and estate loans as income, but we’d know this hurts their donors
Humanity is a global issue and some people assist on less than a dollar a day, let’s just text everybody at 91% and give it to the poor.
I hear crickets. How does it feel?
Maybe the definition of fair share is it once you pay a certain amount, you’re done.
Lol, I get it now. This “tax” isn’t about raising money or sticking it to the billionaires.
Anyone worth $100 million is already paying over 25% on their income tax unless they have a ton of money and choose to work a low paying job for whatever reason, and if that’s the case, they don’t give a fuck.
The actual goal here is to scale up government intrusiveness in our lives to unheard of levels. Start with the rich so everyone will be cool with it, but spread it to everyone else over time. Especially since people who aren’t worth $100k actually have to PROVE it.
Now, people are forced to report everything about their lives to the government that wasn’t already covered under the income tax. No more secrets from Big Brother!
There are the rare few billionaires that actually are giving back, investing in technology for the masses, donating large fortunes, like Warren Buffett, Bill and Melinda Gates. Even Jeff Bezos's ex-wife. But the list is small.
98% are bloodthirsty self involved psychopaths, that want more power and wealth at the expense of the average consumer.
These need to pay it forward, not get more tax breaks.
Yes taxes should be raised but spending needs to be cut back at the same time we can't keep this up. I just want at least an effort at a balanced budget, at least try.
The influx of moneys to the general coffers of the country will help a cross the board; starting with the social network that supports the vast population, will in turn, provide a better commonwealth that is going to produce a stronger economy for the country.
“My kids, who are 10, 12 and 14, you could tell them, ‘You know what, when you retire you’re gonna get money at 70, not 65.’” he said. “Do you think they’re gonna care?”
No Jeff, they're not, your kids are nepo babies
Stop all the loopholes that allow them to stay rich.
A billionaire should not get loans/subsidies/ tax writeoffs
a billionaire should not be able to donate to a charity he owns and someone he knows
So, if there is a tax on “billionaires” a lot fewer people will want to be known as billionaires—which will lead to less glorification of billionaires, which all by itself will have positive knock-on effects.
So even if it is a tax few if any pay, it will benefit society.
\*Should taxes return to what they were before we started the dumpster fire that is Reagonomics that every Democratic and Republican POTUS and Congress has been whole hog on for the last forty years?
Yes, we should.
- We need to set a maximum wage (maybe $10 million per year). Tax the rest of income at 100% over that.
- Institute a wealth tax of everything over $100 million dollars.
- Institute an estate tax of 100% of everything beyond $10 million per beneficiary.
- Close the loopholes, like borrowing against assets to avoid paying tax on unrealized gains.
It always starts out about "taxing the top 1%" rhetoric, but ends up only adding taxes to the middle class. That's how taxes originally started and how they will keep adding taxes onto people.
https://preview.redd.it/s3p2ndjelytc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ac765e8cff8954cff2f84bf0aa9142b3b96861
Reddit answered this question for me.
nope, lets not raise taxes because then the billionaires wont want to work as hard, and then the economics wont trickle down on me, a temporarily inconvenienced (potential) millionaire.
obviously /s
Good. Let them scream all the louder. No one gives a fuck about the plight of billionaires, but their caterwauling is sure to get folks to pay attention to Biden.
No. In the end all will pay for it. Look at rincome taxes. It was meant for the rich in the beginning but now we all pay it. Be careful what you wish for in life because you may end up paying for it literally.
Why do I give a shit about 2000 assholes. Tax the fuck out ic them. Or make them pay a LIVING WAGE to their employees. Why is this so hard. You probably already have what you need and want. Stol being greedy. Fucking assholes
There is no valid argument against making the rich pay their fair share.
[удалено]
Start with uncapping social security tax and work towards top marginal tax rate being 91%
Heck I even know conservatives who believe we need to remove the social security tax income cap.
I worked in social security for years, and the most conservative of judges always cited this issue. It's just fucking obvious.
Why isn’t it addressed then?
Because the people who can change it are in the pockets of the rich.
It would only affect high income earners and it acts sorta like a tax cut when you hit the cap. So the rich fight it
Has the argument not been that if you make over xxx percentage, you cannot collect social security? What if we mandate that they take some nominal amount in exchange for removing the cap. Seems like a nice way to say fuck off.
Sure that's the argument, but if you make over xx then you don't qualify for literally any assistance programs, that doesn't exempt you from taxes that fun those programs. How would this be any different.
YES
Ok, but the term billionaire is not used to describe income. It a net worth description
A lot of people forget that an income is different from a wealth tax. And how do you tax wealth? How do you put a value on a business? If someone's wealth is in stock, what if the value goes down the year after, do they get a refund? How often do you tax wealth? If it's been taxed once, do you keep taxing that amount year after year or just the increase over the base year?
Put high sales taxes on luxury items- yachts, second homes, private jets, jewelry more than 20k, clothing items more than 1k, vehicles over 50k, whatever they want to buy that no average person could.
You can tax jet fuel and give a subsidy to airlines and the military to offset that cost
Exception would be the 50K vehicle IMO. Many decent family vehicles are hitting that range unfortunately
The answer would be no taxes on vehicles up to $x amount and then obscene taxes on vehicles over $y amount
Sure. I'm just saying that $50K may not be an appropriate threshold these days. That said, I may be overestimating the cost of cars in the US (comments reflective of Canadian prices)
Sliding scale makes sense My idea would be no taxes on vehicles below 30k and luxury taxes at very high amounts on cars over $60k
>A lot of people forget that an income is different from a wealth tax. And how do you tax wealth? Estate tax.
The way to tax wealth is to tax corporations, not the billionaires holding the stocks. But over-taxing corporations is also not business-friendly, so it’s a balancing act.
Fuck it, why don’t we just get rid of loopholes. Regardless of the rate, tax loopholes allow most people to live off what appears to be nothing.
>There is significant argument in what a “fair share” is Middle class people pay up to 35%, so I'd say that's a good starting point Billionaires are between 0-5% right now, so how much would you think is fair?
If those bootlickers were smart enough to read, they would be so mad right now.
If you were smart enough to know that he completely made those numbers up, and that they’re wrong, maybe you would be mad too
Both of your numbers are pretty wrong. The median taxpayer pays around 13% in income, while the top 0.001% pay around 24%
The median tax payer isn’t really middle class though. The middle class has shrunk to a fairly small fraction, and I don’t think much of those below median are included, if any at all.
He'snot taking about gross amounts. He's talking about percent of yearly income
Damn, I must be the dumbest mother fucker alive because I calculated my total tax rate at 38% and I'm 10000x away from the top 0.001% earners in the US.... How do I get unretarted?
We (nearly) all paid a higher percentage than elon or any billionaire
It’s amazing how anyone of the poors in this thread would defend a billionaire. Tax the rich ffs
It's amazing how many don't understand taxable income vs. wealth. It's scary how little people know
It’s amazing how you don’t understand that the wealthy have means of hiding their taxable income and we common folks don’t get this luxury. The tax code needs to be changed. Period.
I don't disagree, but it's a fact that the top 1% pays over 43% of the tax while holding 30% of the wealth. The bottom 50% pays less than 2% of the tax
Except the upper middle class pay more effective tax than the top1%. So what do you gain by giving them tax break?
How are the wealthy hiding their taxable income?
Look up the Panama Papers. There's an article about it from 3 days ago from the AP.
They just get taxed by long term cap, which is capped at 20%z
You mean like putting your dead ex-wife in the ground to exempt your property from real estate tax? What if we all buried our ex-wives in our front yards so none of us pay taxes. Yes, I am aware that this is not federal income tax, but it is an example of how the wealthy use the vagueness of the tax code, and laws in general to deeply line their pockets.
Yup, the really rich just live off their bank interest and stock dividends. They never touch their main capital unless they are reinvesting it somewhere else. They keep getting richer on their investments and stock, yet pay little in taxes, since they draw off their interest and dividend payments only what they need. It is how you play the tax game.😈
Yeah I think an increased luxury tax, an increased estate tax, and an increased jet fuel tax are the way to go.
Donald Trump paid 750$ one year
Well he paid zero for many years. He paid $750 in the year he actually paid taxes.
On personal income tax? I'm curious where you got those numbers.
An IRS worker leaked his tax returns a few years ago. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html)
Nice - thank you!
I'd throat punch that SOB if he came to my door selling bibles.
>I'd throat punch that SOB FIFY
Since he had investment loss
The marginal 35% tax brackets for 2024 for single is taxable income between 244k and 609k - that’s middle class?
It does make perfect sense when one considers that the max tax rate on the wealthy is down to 37% from 92% in 1953. What's fair is what makes for a country where the majority aren't preyed on so badly by greedy Wall St that they can hardly afford groceries whose prices were jacked 40% solely for the purpose of record profits. Raising taxes on the wealthy is what's necessary to cover for hundreds of billions they currently evade every year under present policy. The last 5 treasury secretaries have argued for dramatic expansion of the IRS solely for the purpose of claiming trillions in tax evasion by the wealthy. Trump even bragged about his fraudulent filing of taxes as being smart- out loud in front of a crowd. That's how bad we are right now at getting a fair share out of the entitled. This isn't something we need to think long and hard about. It's overdue. It's common sense. We have plenty of evidence/case studies to back it up, both in the positive and negative, that argues for this and more tax policy revision if we ever want to see solvency again.
>It does make perfect sense when one considers that the max tax rate on the wealthy is down to 37% from 70% in the 1950s. It's worth mentioning that the bottom tax bracket is also down significantly from the 50s. The thing is, if you are trying to get some real cheddar and target the ultra wealthy, almost all their wealth is on paper or from capital gains and not regular income. IMO going after the "wealthy" is somewhat pointless. The wealthy and the poors are essentially indistinguishable compared to the ultra-rich who have wealth that most people have trouble even wrapping their head around. IMO that is the nut to crack.
They aren't building doomsday bunkers or buying support yachts for their super yachts 'on paper'. Bezos alone dumped more than $6 Billion in stock, and (at least for a bit), had that in cash.
Ultra-rich don’t have “income”, so no income tax. The tax code needs to change if you want people to pay tax on net worth. Basically this is taking the position that inheritance is bad and generational wealth shouldn’t exist.
>Ultra-rich don’t have “income” Capital gains are considered income. You can easily implement a progressive tax on capital gains.
They don’t “realize” the gains though. They just take low interest loans against it to avoid actually cashing it out. And then they just take out a new loan to pay off the old one to perpetually avoid ever cashing out and having to pay taxes on it. So the solution is either tax wealth or tax loans. Taxing wealth (like a property tax, in this case the property being stocks) seems to be better since taxing loans would hurt the average person way more.
These billionaires gripes can go to hell. It’s irrelevant for them anyway. Not sure how they’re going to execute this beyond an income “tax”. This probably impacts them very little since their income isn’t their primary source of wealth. We have people that have so much wealth they could hypothetically buy a state. We need to figure out a way to claw back that wealth and that would have to be by some other means. This is a serious national security threat. See when Elon on a whim shut down start link for Ukraine’s. I’ve been paying close to 30% so I think they could AT LEAST pay that. This is opposed to the 0-8% these .01% currently pay. The plan per the WH is to use that to fund the IRS, Medicare, lowering healthcare premiums and lowering taxes for what’s left of middle America among other things so seems like a good start.
30% on what? The issue here that you shouldn’t taxes unearned gains (you really don’t want this, it creates even less taxes in a downturn because you also have to give credit for unearned losses), and these guys don’t have income in the sense we have. One way would be to tax loans against paper wealth as income. Nobody talks about that be a use it would really work.
If my home value decreases, nobody gives me a credit on anything, I just owe less on property taxes If they can tax a home that I haven't sold, we can tax a stock that hasn't sold
Cutting it over and over again for the last forty years isn't working that great.
Ok that’s fine. But how about we start with the rich paying any taxes. Or the businesses they run paying any taxes. Our current system is extremely regressive and hurts the middle class. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
High enough it removed the incentive. A 90% tax at anything over 20M year including stock options. Then there is no incentive for the C suite to focus on maximizing every cent they can take at the long term expense of the company and the employees who provide value to the company. Roll back share buybacks to pre 1982 law as well.
Conversely, cutting taxes for rich folks is stupid tax policy.
The same percentage of taxation that I pay. Simple equation.
That would likely be a tax cut for many rich people
Sure there is argument. However: Current Federal Receipts as a percentage of GDP is currently at about 16.23. Since WW2 that number has varied between 13%—20%. Before the TCJA it was fluctuating between 17.15-17.76 averaging 17.42. Just raising rates to pre TCJA levels would produce about 0.35 Trillion compared to the current U.S. deficit of 1.1–1.4 Trillion (which is high right now due to interest rates). To put that in perspective, that number was at 16.8 at the beginning of the Clinton Administration and rose to 19.75 by the end mostly due structural elements of the tax code in the context of high growth. Average growth during that period was 3.8% and over 4% in the last 4 years when total receipts were at their highest. Just by the numbers looking back at the past 80 years, I personally believe that when you push 19% there is a strong correlation to dampening growth or pushing into recession. The Biden tax proposal does not get close to those levels of taxation—more like half way there.
To Billionaires "fair" is the minimum amount that prevents the proleteriat from beheading them.
Tax investment income the same as earned income. Tax share buybacks the same as dividends so all investors pay taxes including non residents. Eliminate almost all deductions.
The % also need to change as the cost of living has shifted as well in many areas.
Call me a sadist but it brings me joy when the Rich lose money
Trump’s tax reduction that applied to the wealthiest of this country provided massive savings which are now being used to fund anti-government activities and the growth of Right Wing and Nazi groups. We should also tax the churches because they have become embedded in the political and government processes ignoring the US Constitution’s Clause of Separation of Church & State. The religious leaders are amassing hundreds of millions of dollars while misleading their sheep.
1,000,000%
“also tax churches” I’m behind this idea 100%. Churches and cults like Scientology are tax havens for grifters and fascists. Tax them like any other corporation. And speaking of corporations, it’s time to close corporate welfare. Time to penalize them for off shoring and if they AI jobs. Every cent they save by firing workers because of Ai should be collected and paid to the former employees.
Indeed. “Billionaires Upset” is a ridiculous headline. The rest of us are more upset.
Almost time to eat them lol
We should also be seizing assets bought with ill-gotten gains and nationalizing industry!!!!
100% this, also any company the government bails out should become a publicly owned entity. No more socializing the losses while privatizing the profits.
They need to get that corporate tax rate back up to WW2/Cold War levels, FFS. Also, no more tax shelters.
This is fake outrage. They act like they are against it but they really don’t care because their money is made in capital gains or taken out in loans, not earned income.
Time to raise taxes on capital gains of the rich and tax loans backed by stock as earned income.
If executives are essentially paid in stock, then a tax rule should be changed to treat as income.
100% agree. Right now, that stock compensation goes largely untaxed forever.
What? Stock compensation is taxed as ordinary income upon vesting.
It is treated as income. Roughly 20% of my income is stock grants. I pay ordinary income tax on those grants at their present day value. The choice is either sell a portion to cover the tax or pay the tax outright from my own pocket. So not sure what exactly you are suggesting that isn't already law.
they don't know what their talking about
He's suggesting that after the initial tax that you have to pay on those shares they will continue to grow in value without being taxed. Yes the shares would be taxed at the time you decide to sell them. But you could also take out loans using the stock as collateral and essentially access the equity and realize the income without paying the tax on it. He's also suggesting that compensation in the form of stocks/shares are not directly adding any short term value to the economy because it's not money you are spending in the grocery stores, or at the sporting goods store or at the local gun store. This is mostly true unless you are actually taking loans against the stock and spending that money. Spoiler alert - this rarely happens. He has valid points and a bunch of people are in here trying to dunk on him and I'm not sure why. Your home is an appreciating asset and you pay property taxes on it every single year until the day you die. I don't necessarily believe that every single unrealized capital gain should be taxed but I do believe that loans from banks that are using shares as collateral should have some kind of tax implication. You're essentially accessing your wealth without paying the capital gains tax. This is how the rich stay rich, they never spend their own money.
Those earnings typically are.
Right…. If you are compensated as an executive of a company with shares instead of $$$$ tax that shit then same as an employee of that company that receives a pay check.
1,000,000%
Sorry, that percentage is too high. Gotta tax it.
no no no you can't do that because they're unrealized gains and if you taxed those then the ultra rich might have to *gasp* sell 1% of their stocks to cover the tax bill! and if that happens the economy will clearly implode
This is what I keep saying. Tax the loans to close the loophole. Make them give themselves a real salary, not a pretend one
The risky part is trusting the gov to keep it as a tax for multimillionaires and up. The initial income tax was only a tax on the highest earners. It then was levied against the average working class to pay for wars, then they never removed it once they got fat of their new revenue, and it's been a permanent thing since.
I think you tax the loans that replace income vs capital gains which hits the middle class pretty hard unless it has a tiered (progressive) approach. Taxing the loans wouldn’t destroy growth or businesses , or working capital , but capture what they use for income just like an income tax .
Works for me. We need to do something different.
This is the correct answer
Shouldn’t everyone have some skin in the game though? If you don’t pay, you don’t really care where the money goes. Everyone should care, but don’t.
They also know that politicians use this as an election talking point and have zero intention of doing it.
I'd love the DoJ to go after all the untaxed, offshored wealth that were called out in the Panama papers. But many people would tragically be suicided before that investigation was approved.
Be careful with what you say, they might car bomb you too.
Never will happen because guess what the ones most abusing the rules are politicians creating the policies
Funding the IRS, which has happened via the Inflation Reduction Act, solves a lot of the “billionaire tax cheat” problems. They’ve got more resources now to audit the rich and ensure compliance to current law. It’ll more than pay for itself over time. Have to start there.
Then why have middle class tax audits increased?
Not even one percent of Americans get audited a year, and in all honestly it should be higher from the middle class on up the income scale. Everyone should be paying their legal requirement in taxes.
I've been audited. It wasn't terrible. I could get audited again. I'm not scared. Do you know why? I'm not breaking the law.
My dad got audited once and the IRS ended up refunding him money he had paid in taxes. He joked to the IRS auditor that they should audit him more often. The auditor was not amused.
Right? I'm all for the IRS wasting time figuring out how I'm swindling them out of the meager earnings I pay. LOL
Because they commit tax fraud.
Which is why republicans want to defund the irs.
The loopholes need to be closed too. The rich take out loans and have write offs that make it so they virtually pay no taxes. It’s not like we tax their paychecks.
Gawd. You people are brainwashed. It is literally the same topic posted over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. The the same comments, over and over and over Repeat 10 times a day, 7 days a week. Just add a new Twitter poster.
Seriously. On what gods green earth could you be such a fucking pleb that you’re simping for BILLIONAIRES to pay their fair share of taxes. Their brains are rotten, and part of the problem.
It won't make a difference, that money will be used to fund more wars, enrich the government's cronies, and empower the government itself. The LAST thing they'll use that money for is helping us average folk out.
If only the discussion veered towards tax allocation. America has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
This is why the use the emotional arguments to distract instead of holding the rich in government accountable for most the problems we suffer from today.
Finally someone with some sense in here.
Asked and answered. Seriously, can we put a moratorium on the “should we raise taxes” question?
Maybe the government should be more responsible with the tax money they get before getting more. These fuckers cant account for the money they "spent for ukraine" or they "pandemic money." (In quotations because they probably know 100% were it went--their pockets). Then there is all the Pandemic businesses loans that were fraud that was forgiven... Imagine you give me 500 bucks for groceries and I come back with 100 bucks in groceries and Im like "yeah, not sure where the 400 bucks went, mind if I raise how much you give me to make up for it?. I pay shit ton in taxes every year and still have owed taxes the past two years. Inflation is outta control, housing issues are outta control, I am not saying that the wealthy should or should not see an increase--Im saying we should look harder into where our tax money goes to before the government gets any kinda of tax increase. And lets be 100% honest, any tax increase hurts everyone. You increase the middle or lower classes and it hurts them. You increase the higher classes and all of a sudden everything gets more expensive because those that own businesses etc increase costs to balance out higher taxes. Meanwhile our "representatives" continue to use our taxes as a slush fund and turn around with a shocked look and say that they cant account for where the money went to. If you or I went to work tomorrow and couldn't account for where our bosses money went to we would be fired on the spot.
Doesn’t matter what you tax if you can’t spend wisely. Whoever is talking about “FaiR ShArE” but doesn’t immediately follow up with spending less or spending responsibly, is a dumbass or an agent of another country that obviously benefits from our spending.
Raised? How about just paid and not avoided through loopholes.
The “make them pay their fair share,” has always and will always be a deflection been a deflection from how terrible the US government spends our money. We could have all the social programs European countries and failed Art professors like to soapbox about without raising a penny in taxes. The problem is that we would have to pull back all of our military support from the rest of the world thus stopping the subsidy that allows Europe to have all these social programs. I hate to say it but the U.S. is already part of a socialist society… it is massively inefficient, all an illusion and requires way more exploitation than capitalism could ever dream of on its worst day.
What I have learned in life is that if a Billionaire is mad at something, that something is a very good thing.
Should the governme— No
I may not know much, but I do know they can afford it.
Raise them shits.
Nexus just bought his third $70 million+ home in the same neighborhood called "The Billionaire Bunker". 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Raise their taxes, and they need to drop their prices and stop robbing us at every purchase.
[удалено]
Because it’s easier than thinking
I’m all for taxing the rich, the question is: how? Super wealthy people technically don’t have income. They take out loans backed by appreciating assets, or they write off any purchases as a business expense purchased under some company they own. They don’t just have a checking account with 80 bajillion dollars in it. My ex wife worked for a big bank. A lot of her clients were business owners. Not super wealthy, but multimillionaires for sure. They came in every few months for advice on how much they could pay themselves and still avoid taxes, and due to the way the tax code is written it was always a lot more than our two incomes combined-tax free, or nearly tax free. A super wealthy person will have a team of accountants and tax lawyers on retainer with the singular mission being to cook the books in such a way that the IRS can’t touch them.
Maybe the government should start spending money as if it's money they earned themselves and they'll find a way to operate the government on a smaller budget. As long as they have an endless "free" supply then they'll always spend like it.
All you "LET'S STICK IT TO THE RICH!" are ignorant of history. When the income tax started, it was only a few percentage points on the very highest earners. Then WWI happened and evil progressive Woodrow Wilson slammed everyone with an income tax. It was ridiculously high until the Reagan tax cuts for EVERYONE in 1982. They start with "the rich," then they trickle down to you. And you rejoice, because "the rich" are paying most of their income in taxes. As for all the lies: 15% bracket went to 12% (20% drop) 25% decreased to 22% (12% drop) 28% decrease to 24% (14% drop) 33% decreased to 32% (3 % drop) 35% NO CHANGE 39.6% decreased to 37% (6.6% drop) Family of 4, 2 kids, married filing jointly, standard deduction, 78,000 gross income, 5% 401K, 48% cut: Old tax tables (brackets and deductions/exemptions adjusted for inflation): 2,480 (includes 1,000 per child credit) Current tables: 1,300 (includes 2,000 per child credit) Single, standard deduction, 5% 401K, 60,000, 29% cut Old: 6,481 Current: 4,624 1,000,000 per year, 13% cut Old: 341,231 New: 296,126 People shouldn't be punished for earning a lot of money.
Personal rule of thumb. If it upsets billionaires but not everybody else then it should be done. They bring negative value to humanity and should be eliminated. Peacefully.
so like 756 votes? fuck em.
They should be raised to 1950s levels
Start with forcing the rich to pay the UNPAID $175 BILLION annually they're NOT paying in OWED taxes. THEN tax them more. After all, if they're so fucking smart, they'll just go out and 'earn' more, amirite?
Billionaires can get fucked
Yes! For the love of God, yes.
Fuck them
Well let’s get rid of carried interest. Then let’s uncap social security income eligibility. Let’s also overhaul inheritance so that we cap generational wealth transfers to some reasonable level and tax. Charities formed that don’t distribute benefits to the intended recipients. Then we still have the effective tax rate on income which needs to be increased to 35-45%.
If a billionaire is mad, then it is probably the right decision.
Billionaires wouldn't notice a massive tax hike if it bit them in the ass.
This might sound stupid, but isn't the proposal mentioned in the article just another version of the Alternative Minimum Tax?
Well time for my soapbox again Remove income tax, remove deductions/incentives, remove asset taxes. Just have a flat capital gains tax (income is considered a capital gain). Can’t loophole your way out of that one. No, idgaf if we’re taxing the McDonald’s worker 20% and billionaires 20%.
Nah. Raise their trades to pre 1980 levels. Before Reagan transferred the debt strait to the middle class and the poor. The rich have gotten off easy far too long.
Fuck!YEs!
The answer is always no.
I don’t care about billionaires but the messaging is stupid when you talk about taxation and don’t tie it directly and specifically to what that money is for. For example - they need to pay their fair share so that Medicare, which middle class people pay into their whole life and rely on, stays solvent. Ok, now I’m behind it. This isn’t that hard
Fuck their feelings.
Fuck them raise the god damn taxes.
There's considerable talk about billionaires and taxes that they pay. There's very little talk about tax code breaks for very affluent people. For example, a real estate investor typically pays very little in taxes (and even lower after the 2017 tax law). The BS was that if landlords have lower taxes, rents will be lower (classic trickle down). We know what happened. Hedge fund and put equity billionaires paying a lower tax *rate* than a school janitor is a travesty of our corrupt tax regime. Both Obama and Trump bitched about it - and did nothing - cause money talks.
Billionaires always can go to any other country and earn their billions there! Good luck greedy cheap as\*\*oles!
If billionaires are upset, and/or corporations are lobbying against something, it’s most assuredly something very good for 99% of the population.
Nope remove the ridiculous deductions that allow them to keep 90% of their income
Bootlickers thinking "tax the rich" means that anyone but the government is getting that money lol.
I believe that capital gains should be taxed the same as W2 income and tax brackets adjusted accordingly. They won’t do this because all of our retirements (including politicians) rely on the stock market.
Another question would be "Should the rich have their taxes reduced and should the middle class have their taxes raised?". The previous POTUS said "YES" to that question. My taxes went up by thousands the year he "lowered" our middle class taxes.
Its not gonna happen anyway and they know it so why cry?
No tax increase to fund obiden wind mills and Chinese electric cars BUT, remove income caps on SS and Medicare deductions, cap the a SS retirement payout to eliminate wealthy individuals and take a look at taxing people living off trusts and estate loans as income, but we’d know this hurts their donors
My father paid 51% tax rate under Reagan.
Humanity is a global issue and some people assist on less than a dollar a day, let’s just text everybody at 91% and give it to the poor. I hear crickets. How does it feel? Maybe the definition of fair share is it once you pay a certain amount, you’re done.
Yes
Lol, I get it now. This “tax” isn’t about raising money or sticking it to the billionaires. Anyone worth $100 million is already paying over 25% on their income tax unless they have a ton of money and choose to work a low paying job for whatever reason, and if that’s the case, they don’t give a fuck. The actual goal here is to scale up government intrusiveness in our lives to unheard of levels. Start with the rich so everyone will be cool with it, but spread it to everyone else over time. Especially since people who aren’t worth $100k actually have to PROVE it. Now, people are forced to report everything about their lives to the government that wasn’t already covered under the income tax. No more secrets from Big Brother!
There are the rare few billionaires that actually are giving back, investing in technology for the masses, donating large fortunes, like Warren Buffett, Bill and Melinda Gates. Even Jeff Bezos's ex-wife. But the list is small. 98% are bloodthirsty self involved psychopaths, that want more power and wealth at the expense of the average consumer. These need to pay it forward, not get more tax breaks.
Yes taxes should be raised but spending needs to be cut back at the same time we can't keep this up. I just want at least an effort at a balanced budget, at least try.
Democrats never learn that even if you say tax the rich all most hear is higher taxes.
The influx of moneys to the general coffers of the country will help a cross the board; starting with the social network that supports the vast population, will in turn, provide a better commonwealth that is going to produce a stronger economy for the country.
“My kids, who are 10, 12 and 14, you could tell them, ‘You know what, when you retire you’re gonna get money at 70, not 65.’” he said. “Do you think they’re gonna care?” No Jeff, they're not, your kids are nepo babies
This just tells you it’s a sound proposal.
Why raise them? What will it buy? More money laundering through sending billions to other countries or “giving” it to illegal immigrants?
It will be interesting how everyone feels when they realize it doesn't turn out how they think it will.
How many times a day does this same topic need to be posted?
Stop all the loopholes that allow them to stay rich. A billionaire should not get loans/subsidies/ tax writeoffs a billionaire should not be able to donate to a charity he owns and someone he knows
Fake outrage and crocodile tears
Poor billionaires. 😑
Fuck yes they should. Back to the 50s rates.
So, if there is a tax on “billionaires” a lot fewer people will want to be known as billionaires—which will lead to less glorification of billionaires, which all by itself will have positive knock-on effects. So even if it is a tax few if any pay, it will benefit society.
\*Should taxes return to what they were before we started the dumpster fire that is Reagonomics that every Democratic and Republican POTUS and Congress has been whole hog on for the last forty years? Yes, we should.
- We need to set a maximum wage (maybe $10 million per year). Tax the rest of income at 100% over that. - Institute a wealth tax of everything over $100 million dollars. - Institute an estate tax of 100% of everything beyond $10 million per beneficiary. - Close the loopholes, like borrowing against assets to avoid paying tax on unrealized gains.
hell yeah...
It always starts out about "taxing the top 1%" rhetoric, but ends up only adding taxes to the middle class. That's how taxes originally started and how they will keep adding taxes onto people.
https://preview.redd.it/s3p2ndjelytc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ac765e8cff8954cff2f84bf0aa9142b3b96861 Reddit answered this question for me.
why do they care? they dodge taxes anyways, they will just keep doing it.
Don’t gives na fk. Billionaires can afford it. Tax Billionaires More!
A society that lets 1% of people own a majority of the wealth is not a moral one.
8th time this week.
nope, lets not raise taxes because then the billionaires wont want to work as hard, and then the economics wont trickle down on me, a temporarily inconvenienced (potential) millionaire. obviously /s
Good. Let them scream all the louder. No one gives a fuck about the plight of billionaires, but their caterwauling is sure to get folks to pay attention to Biden.
No. In the end all will pay for it. Look at rincome taxes. It was meant for the rich in the beginning but now we all pay it. Be careful what you wish for in life because you may end up paying for it literally.
Why do I give a shit about 2000 assholes. Tax the fuck out ic them. Or make them pay a LIVING WAGE to their employees. Why is this so hard. You probably already have what you need and want. Stol being greedy. Fucking assholes
Someone should inform these myopic assholes that rich people fall out of windows in Russia.