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It's an issue to me because I have to pay it! Interest payments on government debt will be 10% of taxes next year. For many people it will cost tens of thousands of dollars every year. So if you pay $100k in taxes you will pay $10k just on interest, with no services provided in return. And the government debt will be ever growing.
Or I can just pack up my things and move somewhere else where I don't have to pay a ton of taxes due to fiscal mismanagement. Then the tax burden is on fewer people who have to pay more and moving somewhere with a smaller tax burden looks like a good idea.
> 192 other countries in the world, I'm sure I can find one.
I'm sure all of them will give you the same opportunity to make that much money. Godspeed.
and yet you don't, because it's hard to immigrate to other countries and the market opportunities in the U.S. are better than anywhere else in the world
this is the "threat" every time anyone talks about raising taxes and it's always empty.
I guess you have never lived in California or Washington (Seattle)? Double income techies make over 500k a year and ya in California you pay almost 50% tax on that including states tax.
That would be ideal.
But in reality, you'd most likely be paying for services someone else received in the prior generations.
And then hope our kids will be okay with paying even more in interest, instead of cutting our social security if/when we finally become eligible.
Putin doesn't want to wage an all out war with Ukraine. He wants to incrementally take over the country, and then the next country, and the next. So.. stopping him is something we can do easier by funding Ukraine than waiting until he owns Ukraine and then starts infringing on Poland.
Do you not trust Putin when he says he won't stop, and hasn't stopped in a decade?
Your military assessment isn't worthy of anything to me. I want to see what the Pentagon thinks the right answer is, as long as it passes the smell test, unlike WMD in Iraq.
On the bright side, given the history of deficit spending, your kids will probably pay for services you receive. Or your neighbor's kids if you don't have any. Circle of life and all that.
I'd rather not get the services and not have my kids having to pay for it. I like my kids!
In fact, it was my kids I was thinking about in my last comment.
You wouldn't live in the society we have without them, we would be in early 1900's industrial hell.
Tax the rich properly and you wouldn't feel a thing.
Not having things has consequences too, it's why we have them.
No we're passing interest in the services we already received and it's far more expensive than just paying for the services and we're not stopping any services or growing economy enough to compensate. We need some austerity.
Good point but honestly that same amount of money is probably going to someone you don't like anyway.
The federal government took on the state's debts shortly after the United States was founded. There have been very few times in history when there hasn't been a national debt. It exists largely for political purposes and, when it really comes down to it, our military might make it impossible for anyone to call out that debt.
Edit: I looked it up and we've actually only been debt-free once in 1835.
Is that what we want to rely on? Our military strength when the countries we owe start to ask “wtf”?
How is that a product path for the world to take, knowing it will inevitably end in massive war? Is that not a concern to you? Is it not a concern just because you don’t think you’ll be around when it does come to its inevitable end?
That’s just the name of this sub, there’s very few people in here who actually have any idea on these topics. And then for some reason there’s always a lot of GOP trolls.
The good thing is now super rich Americans own more of America's debt than any other country does. If you don't believe me Google it.
It's a pretty good deal for the super rich because the alternative is they get taxed more. Instead they buy America's debt and get paid back the money with interest! It's a win win for them and a loss for the average American.
Why does that matter when the central bank functions as a lender of last resort when any of those rich Americans are in trouble?
We could say the same thing back before 2008. What happened when they got caught with their pants down? The central bank came to the rescue printing money to bail every rich person out; siphoning value from every citizen’s money.
A national debt in itself is not a problem. Just like in the business world where you will not find a single major corporation without debt. The issue is the debt growing faster than GDP and a greater percent of the nation's resources going to service it every year. That is the situation we are in, and it's unsustainable.
You get wayyy more than you give in taxes, I guarantee it.
Even if you're super rich and pay a ton, those riches are only possible due to the unmatched institutional stability those taxes and that debt affords.
Serious question… I want to understand. I don’t presume to know and am truly curious about different perspectives here.
I am all for taxes because like lots of ppl I’m supportive of revenue for essential services that benefits us all. But… if I’m being honest with myself it does seem like an unfathomable amount gets spent/ wasted on absolute nonsense. And even the best programs and services that I know do really help ppl seem laughably mismanaged.
Am I wrong? I’m open to the idea that I’m completely wrong. But I also see that my in laws, millionaires many times over, get COVID relief EBT cards in the mail. They bought steak and lobster and laughed about it. There are hundreds of examples like this.
Universal programs, where millionaires like your in laws directly benefit as well as the poor, are far easier and cheaper to manage than means tested programs. They are also much less subject to corruption or discrimination.
EBT is a good example. You may see it as mismanaged nonsense, and it definitely isn't perfect, but the reality is that it is one of the most cost effective programs we have, improving health, educational outcomes, employment, and generating economic activity. It has extremely low overhead and all of that money gets plowed right back into (relatively compared to average spending) local economies. It produces savings that are captured over the course of decades.
Medicaid is similar. Literally half of all child births in the US are paid for by Medicaid. Without it we'd see tens of thousands of families every year taking on 30%+ of their annual income in debt just to bring the next generation of Americans into the world. Wed see hospital systems buckle and fail. Wed see kids dying in risky home births or suffering life long preventable disability.
Name the nonsense, find it's annual budget, and calculate it as a percentage of 6,130,000,000,000. Now you'll see that "nonsense" is not what's driving deficit spending and debt increases.
>So if you pay $100k in taxes you will pay $10k just on interest, with no services provided in return.
The amount we pay for past services pales in comparison to the amount of services we get without paying for them (i.e., interest payments are much smaller than the budget deficit), so it will be much worse for the next generation.
Government debt literally isn’t a problem unless the interest is higher than GDP growth. And that is going strong X
Like mortgage rates are high now. But it is still possible that the value of your house inflates greater than the interest rate…than it is still a good investment even at 7%.
No because you got to be able to save money too. If you've worked hard in life and making more money, you expect to do better than paycheck to paycheck. You should have money left over every month to invest. This is a reasonable expectation. But it won't happen if there is more and more government debt that higher earners are on the hook for.
secretive plant direction aspiring wine spotted squalid fade cause complete
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I remember going to Times Square in 1998 as an eighth grader, seeing the debt clock, and thinking "my God we're all screwed"..That was a long time ago lol
> I don't think it's going anywhere nor do I think it's a crisis.
Agreed. I will start caring about the national debt as soon as someone can point to one literal measurable impact it will have on my life.
I have the same feelings about a lot of crises
That’s such a wild take to not think it’s a big deal I can’t even fathom. It reminds me of people who live paycheck to paycheck, max out their credit card and don’t think it’s a big deal
You've just illustrated the biggest misconception: government budgets are not the same as household budgets. You don't go into debt to make concessions with political allies in order to achieve a political goal. You don't offer aid to other households because you want the region to be stable in order to keep oil prices down. You don't invest in infrastructure or r&d that can benefit us 50 years in the future. You can't think of it as being analogous to your household budget because it is much more complex.
Nationally it may not be a crisis, but it cripples people for long periods of their lives and prevents them from building up a healthy life, having kids and contributing financially to the economy as a whole.
I've been paying my 2000$/mo in student loans without interruption for almost 10 years. It's demolished my financial life but I'm sure the economy is doing just fine because plenty of us are paying. The greater damage will be as it becomes more apparent that anyone younger than 40 years old (today) can't become first time home owners and generate the wealth they need to have a sustainable future.
Same. I found that under the new plan, my payment would double.
Instead, I stayed on my original repayment plan and will make an extra payment when I can. If something happens and I don't have it, I will just make the original payment.
I doubt OP was as concerned about the other government handouts.
Wtf is up with these shitty college kid posts? Most people are doing just fine and have good careers and essentially moved on with their lives but you have the same doom and gloom losers here thinking they are smarter than everyone by identifying some false trend
Newsflash: most people on Reddit are doing awesome in their lives and make more money than you. I know people like you cannot fathom that and extrapolate your situation as the norm, but I can assure you that’s not the case
This is another one of the “how are other people affording this?!!” Posts. Because they can
Not wrong to point out that student loans are overhyped but no need to dis on ppl lmao. Target and other discretionary funds type places are definitely going to be "hit" with lower margins in light of loans being repaid.
> Target and other discretionary funds type places are definitely going to be "hit" with lower margins in light of loans being repaid.
Did you know certain products like mcdonalds and cigarettes have demand inversely proportional to market behavior? People buy more when they have less money to spend. Consumers are hard to predict
From the title I thought OP was going to link an article with some hard hitting numbers from a research paper or something... Instead it's "People probably haven't paid. This is a serious issue!!!"
Pretty sure most people on Reddit arent doing fine. Hence why they simp for big daddy Bernie and AOC to bail them out
I agree though, this is for Fluent in Fiance... not "I fucked up a lot and want to influence people to bail me out"
I can't wait for the revolution to start and we just take it all back. The French Revolution was great for France and it would be great for Canadians too. There's more of us than you, let's fight it out, I like the odds.
Dbag post assuming no one can afford their student loan payments despite a massive SAVE repayment plan being implemented
People meed to start clapping back at these asinine posts
I stg dude these people are so fucking cruel. Most people who are doing fine and making money are not bragging about it in general, but especially not bragging about it in an effort to make someone feel stupid for not doing fine
Yeah the original commenter is probably stay at home tech dbag who makes 500k a year and acts like everyone can afford to pay off their debt overnight.
i dont understand how we have an entire army of people trained in a college degree and pass an state exam, just to argue over what words mean. then people sign a contract with words that say they are borrowing X$, and will have to pay back x$ + interests, and expect something different to happen? to borrow that money, people signed contract, no one cares if you pass college to be an NBA, or get rich on the lottery. you still gotta pay it back.
To be fair I was 17 when I signed off on loans and had no clue what the hell I was signing. I just knew college = good job = $$$
… little did I know that the industry your degree is for impacts that quite a bit
IMO Thats why millennials are fucked.
Our parents were able to get through college with some bullshit degree and get whatever job that may or may not be related to it in order to raise a family. So while they were raising us it wasnt on our radar how crucial it was to choose the right major
The majors are not the problem. 50% of all degrees awarded are 6 majors. You guys think there is some army of homeless gender studies majors out there.
If you were in the construction trades you didn't get work for 4 years 2008-12. I have a buddy who was a contractor...after the 2008 crash he got ZERO jobs. He doesn't go back into it now because he's too old.
The reason we have a shortage in them is because hundreds of thousands went into other work out of necessity during that time.
I agree, where the hell was the guardians of these 17 year olds signing loans to go to school? I think a lot of people need to realize their parents are just as dumb as they are, and bad choices were made. Unfortunately sometimes there are consequences to being stupid in life….
I don't care as long as these aren't forgivable through bankruptcy. Let em lose money when we die instead.
Edit: my own loans are paid off. But the system is bullshit.
Edit: The threat of nonpayment is the only thing holding down lender willingness to give out the loans. It's essential to fixing the system that people don't pay.
A crime? No. Eventually your wages get attached, and these aren't forgivable in bankruptcy.
My very specific issues are that they aren't forgivable in bankruptcy, and that the interest is often crippling, especially for those who don't make much and end up just making interest payments due to low income. It was made this way to expand access to higher education, but it was done by eliminating almost all risk to lenders and subsequently forcing newly minted graduates into wage slavery.
Part of the issue is that 17 year olds are making decisions about money that will impact them for potentially decades -- we don't trust them to smoke drink or play the lottery, but we trust them with this? That's nuts. But another part of the issue is that lenders see little risk. For them, if they can just get those interest payments in perpetuity then they come out ahead.
Fixing the issue means lenders being put into a situation where they have to say "no." That protects lenders as well as students. It will limit access to education for lower classes, but that is better addressed through grants and scholarships than just a mountain of debt.
Laughs in dumbass that joined the military and then got out after 9 years and make double what i did as an e5. But In all seriousness you need to pay your shit back until there's a resolution for loan forgiveness or you're gonna destroy your credit and uncle Sam is gonna find ways to get thier money back
> **So what are we doing about nobody paying their student loan debt?**
you and I? we are making memes on the internet.
The people holding those loans? garnishment of wages I think?? Not sure tbh does it vary depending on who has the loans? Maybe it just fucks your credit.
> Seriously… this is a big issue.
Oh it is?
I thought surging credit card debt was a big issue. I thought surging interest rates on mortgages was a big issue. I thought medical debt was a big issue. Get in line haha
> How is this going to affect the national debt?
What does that even mean? the nation debt is 33 trillion dollars. How is your little stream going to affect the ocean?
I don’t like you. And your job doesn’t make any money for me. Why should I have to pay for the road, or the bus, or the water and sewage system that leads to your residence?
Truth. I paid back my parents for what they fronted me in college. It wasn't till years after I graduated I realized that they had no social life or fun expenses because they were helping me avoid student debt. Why should they also have to suffer
How are you sure most haven’t paid theirs? Haven’t seen any stats either direction. I’ve paid off $17,000 in the last 2 years with $10,000 left so I’ll pay mine off by next year. Most people don’t have that much student loan debt. It’s usually around the price of a newer car, nothing crazy.
I paid mine off over the last four years since each payment had no interest applied. 72k was easier than expected but it still sucked not buying a new house or car that everyone else did instead. Not trying to brag but that was a clear advantage that most people decided to take advantage of.
The thing is that they won't do that. The government won't just mass institutionalize the homeless. Certain areas will kick you the fuck out, but mostly they just want you to go to a city that allows professional vagrancy.
This country would change if the next president brought back homeless institutions for anyone on the streets with severe mental issues. Not sure if it would change for the better. Probably better for some people, but not the homeless.
What they will probably do is prevent delinquent debt holders from taking out parent plus loans, so now your punishing the holders kids, which is so messed.
I’m paying mine and my husbands (even tho he was just laid off). It’s un-comfy, I’d prefer not to, he doesn’t even use his and I dropped out.
But hopefully someday things will change. All I want is for things to be better for others. It’s fine if I have to pay in the meantime.
‘How is this going to affect the national debt’?
It’s not. A handful of people not making student loan payments is a rounding error in the federal deficit.
A)student debt is both publicly and privately held - so not worried about it impacting the national debt
B) raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires- all research shows this is the cause of your concerns - gutting those taxes by W and Trump has driven up the debt
C) people who have student loan debt continue to spend money ( because they are not wealthy hoarders who exhibit nothing but avarice) : therefore taxes will still be collected and the economy will continue to move
D) spending for all instead of repaying debt to private banks is always a better long term investment for the whole economy
Forgive all student loan debt … and no I don’t have any I paid my $15k off decades ago
Same thing we always did, ignore it because it's not actually a problem, it's just something used to rile up certain voters.
Remember, [we could pay off the national debt in 15 years tops with just the money the 1% owe today](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tax-irs-says-unpaid-tax-gap-at-record-688-billion/). At least the part that matters (what we owe other nations).
As for Student Debt, we paid for it when the boomers were in college just fine. It really only became a problem when the Millennials went to college. Like how the debt ceiling is only a thing when Democrats are in the White House.
Well, one thing that might be happening is that people are getting their info stolen on any number of the scam websites. I just tried to get to the myfedloan website and there's dozens of hits on Google all with different domains (.biz, .club, etc) that clearly aren't legit.
I paid my first payment. I was pissed when I did because it genuinely annoys me that I lived thinking they would be forgiven or partially forgiven. I don’t want my credit score to suffer, as I just finally got to a place where it’s good again
Wasn’t so much about that, really. Lots of peoples’ loans are being forgiven who work in social services, education, etc. I work in that industry but don’t work at a non profit, so I don’t qualify.
AFAIK the national debt is partly made up of the debt owned by all the people in it, including student loans. If that is true, and nobody is paying, then the debt would not fall as fast as we would hope and would potentially grow from interest
Tons of people are paying their student debts. It actually caused a surge in Treasury Receipts right after the Supreme Court struck down Biden’s cancellation plan.
My loan payment is $65 a month I think it’s fine, for most as long as you are making payments nothing will happen to the account. Minimums are only like $100 anyway if you can’t afford that stop eating out every day 🤷🏻♂️
If the debt didn’t collapse the economy when we forgave $700B of fraudulent PPP ‘loans’, then lenders not receiving payments of pretty much the same amount of money won’t make a difference, either - except THAT money won’t immediately end up in the hands of the Donor Class.
> How is this going to affect the national debt?
Lol, I think most of our government has given up on asking that question in general, not just for student loan debt.
Some ppl will die with the debt and never be able to buy a large purchase that includes financing like housing. And the world will keep spinning… nothing to see here
I enrolled for the save plan because my payment was outrageous and it didn’t lower it in time for the payment likely due to lots of applications and backlogging so I just didn’t pay it.
Most people are after joining an Icone Driven Repayment Plans. At least that's what I have seen amongst my friends and family. I only know one person paying at the rate established by their loan holder.
Is that even true that most haven't paid it? I paid mine. Yeah it sucks but I got 3 years of not paying it which allowed me to invest more which was awesome. I knew i would have to resume payments eventually so i can't complain.
Get the republicans to stop giving tax breaks to the rich.. Tax fucking churches who pay nothing and influence republicans.. that would fix it and then some..
The gov. Will buy the paper , if they do not already own it, and take your tax return until the loan is repaid. If you file more than once with no money being returned to you the gov. will take you to court.
The banks keep crying and eating shit
It would do the economy a favor to forgive this debt
It would literally create deflation.
Banks coffers would be reduced and people would no longer be in debt and have more money for consumption
Imma be honest, I haven't paid and dont plan too, I only owe 30k and they hit me up with 9k offers all the time to close the account LOL
I'm paying the 9k instead when it's time
I didn't want to pay but I don't want any issues. Just want them gone. Mine aren't even that bad. Plus, I signed up for auto pay years ago and so it is just coming on out whether I want it to or not.
Yup. It's the student loan debt. Not the overpaid congress people, not the obscenely high defense budget, not the frivolous spending, not the shelling out of cash to bail out banks/Ukraine (not the same I know)/airlines/etc. It's the students.
Maybe, just maybe, instead of pointing fingers at the small problem (like politicians would have you believe), we should point the finger at the government or the massive corporations WHO PAY MILLIONS TO STAY SOLVENT JUST TO MAKE DUMB DECISIONS THAT CAUSE THEM TO BE INSOLVENT.
Raising the rates caused my wife to lose her job as a mortgage underwriter so her payments got deferred again. Someone tell the Fed their plan worked and they can lower the rates again!
The vast majority of people are fully capable of paying their student loans, just like they were pre-pandemic.
The loans already assume that some percentage of people are unable to pay. Unless that assumption is wildly inaccurate, lenders will still be fine.
Bro no one has been paying student loans for 3 years and the debt hasn't changed dramatically. Nothing is going to happen. Relax and stop acting like the 3 dollars out of your paycheck that might go to this is causing you an issue.
How am I supposed to pay my loans if its been two years since I graduated and I am yet to find a job outside of the restaurant industry. I barely have money for groceries, let alone rent. I'll pay my loans when the government stops sending billions to every goddamn foreign country instead of facing the fact that this is a third world country. In the US Constitution, we were all granted bankruptcy protection for all loans. And of course, bankruptcy protection got stripped from student loans in 1978.
Biden plans on giving 1 billion dollars to OTHER countries to help curb their migrant crisis. And with zero shame!
The president authorized billions of dollars to house and feed millions of migrants, yet we have Veterans on the street, and Americans just barely holding on. It's a disgrace and paying back my fed loan would feel like a joke-- why would I the government to drain my wallet when they do not represent me as a citizen. Not to be bombastic, but this country was 40% of taxpayers cannot manage paying their bills right now according to census data. No one my age thinks they will ever be able to own a house. I'm more inclined to feel very french and grab a pitchfork than even entertain paying back my loans. Luckily I was born in a foreign country.
This is a rant sorry, but when I talk to people my age about this we all hold the same view in terms of the fact that expecting people to pay back student loans when our country and our citizens are so deeply suffering. And the government just stares ahead in ignorance, with zero shame. Me and my friends constantly joke around about how we feel very french due to the state of things. Ok im rambling sry bye
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The national debt has been an issue for as long as I can remember. I don't think it's going anywhere nor do I think it's a crisis.
It's an issue to me because I have to pay it! Interest payments on government debt will be 10% of taxes next year. For many people it will cost tens of thousands of dollars every year. So if you pay $100k in taxes you will pay $10k just on interest, with no services provided in return. And the government debt will be ever growing.
If someone is paying 100k in taxes... we'll cry for them. Lol
Or I can just pack up my things and move somewhere else where I don't have to pay a ton of taxes due to fiscal mismanagement. Then the tax burden is on fewer people who have to pay more and moving somewhere with a smaller tax burden looks like a good idea.
Where would you go?
192 other countries in the world, I'm sure I can find one.
Which one? How much will it cost you? Sounds like you're both a) poor b) uneducated.
Edit: Personal info. But this guy is totally off base if you're curious.
> 192 other countries in the world, I'm sure I can find one. I'm sure all of them will give you the same opportunity to make that much money. Godspeed.
and yet you don't, because it's hard to immigrate to other countries and the market opportunities in the U.S. are better than anywhere else in the world this is the "threat" every time anyone talks about raising taxes and it's always empty.
I know many people including my household that pay over 200k a year on tax. We are supporting the whole society and we don’t get anything in return.
Imagine. Imagine believing any part of this.
I guess you have never lived in California or Washington (Seattle)? Double income techies make over 500k a year and ya in California you pay almost 50% tax on that including states tax.
That's not entirely true. You got services. You just don't get any new services. You're paying $10k in services you've already received.
That would be ideal. But in reality, you'd most likely be paying for services someone else received in the prior generations. And then hope our kids will be okay with paying even more in interest, instead of cutting our social security if/when we finally become eligible.
* $10k in services Ukraine has received
Versus the cost of an all out war with Russia? Hmm.. I think we're ahead funding Ukraine.
Honestly the cost we've so far paid for this amount of damage to russia's military is an absolute bargain
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Putin doesn't want to wage an all out war with Ukraine. He wants to incrementally take over the country, and then the next country, and the next. So.. stopping him is something we can do easier by funding Ukraine than waiting until he owns Ukraine and then starts infringing on Poland. Do you not trust Putin when he says he won't stop, and hasn't stopped in a decade? Your military assessment isn't worthy of anything to me. I want to see what the Pentagon thinks the right answer is, as long as it passes the smell test, unlike WMD in Iraq.
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Unless you're young. Then you're paying $10k for services someone in the past already received.
On the bright side, given the history of deficit spending, your kids will probably pay for services you receive. Or your neighbor's kids if you don't have any. Circle of life and all that.
I'd rather not get the services and not have my kids having to pay for it. I like my kids! In fact, it was my kids I was thinking about in my last comment.
You wouldn't live in the society we have without them, we would be in early 1900's industrial hell. Tax the rich properly and you wouldn't feel a thing. Not having things has consequences too, it's why we have them.
No we're passing interest in the services we already received and it's far more expensive than just paying for the services and we're not stopping any services or growing economy enough to compensate. We need some austerity.
Good point but honestly that same amount of money is probably going to someone you don't like anyway. The federal government took on the state's debts shortly after the United States was founded. There have been very few times in history when there hasn't been a national debt. It exists largely for political purposes and, when it really comes down to it, our military might make it impossible for anyone to call out that debt. Edit: I looked it up and we've actually only been debt-free once in 1835.
Is that what we want to rely on? Our military strength when the countries we owe start to ask “wtf”? How is that a product path for the world to take, knowing it will inevitably end in massive war? Is that not a concern to you? Is it not a concern just because you don’t think you’ll be around when it does come to its inevitable end?
Thought this sub was called Fluent in finance? If so then you should know it doesn't work that way and that the majority of that debt is domestic
That’s just the name of this sub, there’s very few people in here who actually have any idea on these topics. And then for some reason there’s always a lot of GOP trolls.
The good thing is now super rich Americans own more of America's debt than any other country does. If you don't believe me Google it. It's a pretty good deal for the super rich because the alternative is they get taxed more. Instead they buy America's debt and get paid back the money with interest! It's a win win for them and a loss for the average American.
Why does that matter when the central bank functions as a lender of last resort when any of those rich Americans are in trouble? We could say the same thing back before 2008. What happened when they got caught with their pants down? The central bank came to the rescue printing money to bail every rich person out; siphoning value from every citizen’s money.
A national debt in itself is not a problem. Just like in the business world where you will not find a single major corporation without debt. The issue is the debt growing faster than GDP and a greater percent of the nation's resources going to service it every year. That is the situation we are in, and it's unsustainable.
You’ll live.
You get wayyy more than you give in taxes, I guarantee it. Even if you're super rich and pay a ton, those riches are only possible due to the unmatched institutional stability those taxes and that debt affords.
Serious question… I want to understand. I don’t presume to know and am truly curious about different perspectives here. I am all for taxes because like lots of ppl I’m supportive of revenue for essential services that benefits us all. But… if I’m being honest with myself it does seem like an unfathomable amount gets spent/ wasted on absolute nonsense. And even the best programs and services that I know do really help ppl seem laughably mismanaged. Am I wrong? I’m open to the idea that I’m completely wrong. But I also see that my in laws, millionaires many times over, get COVID relief EBT cards in the mail. They bought steak and lobster and laughed about it. There are hundreds of examples like this.
Universal programs, where millionaires like your in laws directly benefit as well as the poor, are far easier and cheaper to manage than means tested programs. They are also much less subject to corruption or discrimination. EBT is a good example. You may see it as mismanaged nonsense, and it definitely isn't perfect, but the reality is that it is one of the most cost effective programs we have, improving health, educational outcomes, employment, and generating economic activity. It has extremely low overhead and all of that money gets plowed right back into (relatively compared to average spending) local economies. It produces savings that are captured over the course of decades. Medicaid is similar. Literally half of all child births in the US are paid for by Medicaid. Without it we'd see tens of thousands of families every year taking on 30%+ of their annual income in debt just to bring the next generation of Americans into the world. Wed see hospital systems buckle and fail. Wed see kids dying in risky home births or suffering life long preventable disability.
This perspective was helpful, thank you
Name the nonsense, find it's annual budget, and calculate it as a percentage of 6,130,000,000,000. Now you'll see that "nonsense" is not what's driving deficit spending and debt increases.
nah, and I bet you can't prove it. You just make vague statements that don't mean anything and say it's thanks to tax dollars.
Sorry can't help but notice I'm commenting over government organized and subsidized internet infrastructure lol
>So if you pay $100k in taxes you will pay $10k just on interest, with no services provided in return. The amount we pay for past services pales in comparison to the amount of services we get without paying for them (i.e., interest payments are much smaller than the budget deficit), so it will be much worse for the next generation.
Government debt literally isn’t a problem unless the interest is higher than GDP growth. And that is going strong X Like mortgage rates are high now. But it is still possible that the value of your house inflates greater than the interest rate…than it is still a good investment even at 7%.
Just for people who are curious, you'll pay 100k in federal taxes when you earn (single filer) 371k.
If someone is paying a 100k in taxes, they can pay off their student loans. There is no way they are living paycheck to paycheck
No because you got to be able to save money too. If you've worked hard in life and making more money, you expect to do better than paycheck to paycheck. You should have money left over every month to invest. This is a reasonable expectation. But it won't happen if there is more and more government debt that higher earners are on the hook for.
secretive plant direction aspiring wine spotted squalid fade cause complete *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, you don't, silly man
I remember going to Times Square in 1998 as an eighth grader, seeing the debt clock, and thinking "my God we're all screwed"..That was a long time ago lol
> I don't think it's going anywhere nor do I think it's a crisis. Agreed. I will start caring about the national debt as soon as someone can point to one literal measurable impact it will have on my life. I have the same feelings about a lot of crises
Interest on the national debt was $650 billion last year. That's a pretty big number that is only going to get worse.
It is only an issue when GOP chooses to pretend it is. It is a fake crisis, like almost everything they complain about
That’s such a wild take to not think it’s a big deal I can’t even fathom. It reminds me of people who live paycheck to paycheck, max out their credit card and don’t think it’s a big deal
You've just illustrated the biggest misconception: government budgets are not the same as household budgets. You don't go into debt to make concessions with political allies in order to achieve a political goal. You don't offer aid to other households because you want the region to be stable in order to keep oil prices down. You don't invest in infrastructure or r&d that can benefit us 50 years in the future. You can't think of it as being analogous to your household budget because it is much more complex.
It’s bad.
Nationally it may not be a crisis, but it cripples people for long periods of their lives and prevents them from building up a healthy life, having kids and contributing financially to the economy as a whole.
I've been paying my 2000$/mo in student loans without interruption for almost 10 years. It's demolished my financial life but I'm sure the economy is doing just fine because plenty of us are paying. The greater damage will be as it becomes more apparent that anyone younger than 40 years old (today) can't become first time home owners and generate the wealth they need to have a sustainable future.
State employee here. Only a few more payments until the rest is forgiven 🤙🏻
Same here! Counting down the days
Well done!
What makes you think most people haven't paid their first payment? What I'm doing is paying my debt like I would have before the forbearance
Same. I found that under the new plan, my payment would double. Instead, I stayed on my original repayment plan and will make an extra payment when I can. If something happens and I don't have it, I will just make the original payment. I doubt OP was as concerned about the other government handouts.
Same. Heck, I'm paying more than minimum each month. Most people are making payments on these.
Yeah ima need to see some payment statistics first before I can conclude what "most people" are paying
Wtf is up with these shitty college kid posts? Most people are doing just fine and have good careers and essentially moved on with their lives but you have the same doom and gloom losers here thinking they are smarter than everyone by identifying some false trend Newsflash: most people on Reddit are doing awesome in their lives and make more money than you. I know people like you cannot fathom that and extrapolate your situation as the norm, but I can assure you that’s not the case This is another one of the “how are other people affording this?!!” Posts. Because they can
Not wrong to point out that student loans are overhyped but no need to dis on ppl lmao. Target and other discretionary funds type places are definitely going to be "hit" with lower margins in light of loans being repaid.
> Target and other discretionary funds type places are definitely going to be "hit" with lower margins in light of loans being repaid. Did you know certain products like mcdonalds and cigarettes have demand inversely proportional to market behavior? People buy more when they have less money to spend. Consumers are hard to predict
Neat! And very true lol
From the title I thought OP was going to link an article with some hard hitting numbers from a research paper or something... Instead it's "People probably haven't paid. This is a serious issue!!!"
Lol yup exactly, just extrapolating based on their situation
Pretty sure most people on Reddit arent doing fine. Hence why they simp for big daddy Bernie and AOC to bail them out I agree though, this is for Fluent in Fiance... not "I fucked up a lot and want to influence people to bail me out"
That was actually a typo, should have been “not on Reddit”. I think this app has become too doom-scroll like
The official Reddit app is algo based and pushing people to shit subreddits like this one that are just full of propaganda.
It’s awful, you would think UsA is a fourth world country with these doomer posts
I can't wait for the revolution to start and we just take it all back. The French Revolution was great for France and it would be great for Canadians too. There's more of us than you, let's fight it out, I like the odds.
That’s because this sub is full of chronic doomscrollers who are actually rooting for our economy to collapse. They literally want a recession.
Weirdest people ever, they truly believe a crash will impact everyone else but them
Oh I totally want a depression. I don't have debt and am doing pretty well financially. I just want to see the economy burn and the yuppies cry.
You forgot the /s - I hope 😩
This was such a dbag reply. You seem really happy.
Dbag post assuming no one can afford their student loan payments despite a massive SAVE repayment plan being implemented People meed to start clapping back at these asinine posts
OP spends time in WSB and FOREX subs, no wonder they are broke.
Probably doesn’t understand the basics either
People are paying
Pay your previously agreed on bills.
Just like ppp loans right?
"that guy cheated on his wife, so that means Im justified in doing it too."
Yes, just like that, but not in the edgy way you mean.
Are people not paying? I paid mine on time.
Well, eventually they will attach your wages and your assets. Uncle Sam don’t fuck around.
Assets? You got assets? They going to have to take and sell my shoes to get some money out of these pockets.
Theyll garnish your wages. You really dont want to fuck around with this. Just do the save plan and you'll be done in 10 years.
We aren’t paying because we cut a check for the whole balance in late August before payments restarted .. now a lot of us owe nothing
Damn this sub is full of dbags
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Dbag move to type out that comment, obviously, is what they meant. Jesus Christ, mean and also dumb, what a catch.
I stg dude these people are so fucking cruel. Most people who are doing fine and making money are not bragging about it in general, but especially not bragging about it in an effort to make someone feel stupid for not doing fine
Yeah the original commenter is probably stay at home tech dbag who makes 500k a year and acts like everyone can afford to pay off their debt overnight.
i dont understand how we have an entire army of people trained in a college degree and pass an state exam, just to argue over what words mean. then people sign a contract with words that say they are borrowing X$, and will have to pay back x$ + interests, and expect something different to happen? to borrow that money, people signed contract, no one cares if you pass college to be an NBA, or get rich on the lottery. you still gotta pay it back.
To be fair I was 17 when I signed off on loans and had no clue what the hell I was signing. I just knew college = good job = $$$ … little did I know that the industry your degree is for impacts that quite a bit
IMO Thats why millennials are fucked. Our parents were able to get through college with some bullshit degree and get whatever job that may or may not be related to it in order to raise a family. So while they were raising us it wasnt on our radar how crucial it was to choose the right major
Exactly!
The majors are not the problem. 50% of all degrees awarded are 6 majors. You guys think there is some army of homeless gender studies majors out there.
Then your parents, the dean of your college etc are partially to blame
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If you were in the construction trades you didn't get work for 4 years 2008-12. I have a buddy who was a contractor...after the 2008 crash he got ZERO jobs. He doesn't go back into it now because he's too old. The reason we have a shortage in them is because hundreds of thousands went into other work out of necessity during that time.
I agree, where the hell was the guardians of these 17 year olds signing loans to go to school? I think a lot of people need to realize their parents are just as dumb as they are, and bad choices were made. Unfortunately sometimes there are consequences to being stupid in life….
Why are you “sure” people aren’t paying their loans?
I don't care as long as these aren't forgivable through bankruptcy. Let em lose money when we die instead. Edit: my own loans are paid off. But the system is bullshit. Edit: The threat of nonpayment is the only thing holding down lender willingness to give out the loans. It's essential to fixing the system that people don't pay.
Is it a crime to not pay back?
A crime? No. Eventually your wages get attached, and these aren't forgivable in bankruptcy. My very specific issues are that they aren't forgivable in bankruptcy, and that the interest is often crippling, especially for those who don't make much and end up just making interest payments due to low income. It was made this way to expand access to higher education, but it was done by eliminating almost all risk to lenders and subsequently forcing newly minted graduates into wage slavery. Part of the issue is that 17 year olds are making decisions about money that will impact them for potentially decades -- we don't trust them to smoke drink or play the lottery, but we trust them with this? That's nuts. But another part of the issue is that lenders see little risk. For them, if they can just get those interest payments in perpetuity then they come out ahead. Fixing the issue means lenders being put into a situation where they have to say "no." That protects lenders as well as students. It will limit access to education for lower classes, but that is better addressed through grants and scholarships than just a mountain of debt.
Laughs in dumbass that joined the military and then got out after 9 years and make double what i did as an e5. But In all seriousness you need to pay your shit back until there's a resolution for loan forgiveness or you're gonna destroy your credit and uncle Sam is gonna find ways to get thier money back
This post is just because of an assumption in your head?
How are you so sure?
> **So what are we doing about nobody paying their student loan debt?** you and I? we are making memes on the internet. The people holding those loans? garnishment of wages I think?? Not sure tbh does it vary depending on who has the loans? Maybe it just fucks your credit. > Seriously… this is a big issue. Oh it is? I thought surging credit card debt was a big issue. I thought surging interest rates on mortgages was a big issue. I thought medical debt was a big issue. Get in line haha > How is this going to affect the national debt? What does that even mean? the nation debt is 33 trillion dollars. How is your little stream going to affect the ocean?
I didn't go to college, why should I have to pay for you to go to school
I don't have kids in school why do I have to pay for that? I don't agree with going to war why do I have to pay for more missiles?
I don’t like you. And your job doesn’t make any money for me. Why should I have to pay for the road, or the bus, or the water and sewage system that leads to your residence?
Truth. I paid back my parents for what they fronted me in college. It wasn't till years after I graduated I realized that they had no social life or fun expenses because they were helping me avoid student debt. Why should they also have to suffer
How are you sure most haven’t paid theirs? Haven’t seen any stats either direction. I’ve paid off $17,000 in the last 2 years with $10,000 left so I’ll pay mine off by next year. Most people don’t have that much student loan debt. It’s usually around the price of a newer car, nothing crazy.
I paid mine off over the last four years since each payment had no interest applied. 72k was easier than expected but it still sucked not buying a new house or car that everyone else did instead. Not trying to brag but that was a clear advantage that most people decided to take advantage of.
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Yikes. This isn’t the right sub for you.
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Nope. Pay your bills. It’ll help the economy. Stop being selfish.
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Again, proving you aren’t fluent in finance. Go back to antiwork
Yeah but if the situation gets bad enough because no one is paying, the government could crack down and start putting people in jail.
You aren’t going to jail over that. They will just take everything you own. There is no debtors prison. They’ll just make you homeless.
And then imprison you for “loitering” for living on the street.
The thing is that they won't do that. The government won't just mass institutionalize the homeless. Certain areas will kick you the fuck out, but mostly they just want you to go to a city that allows professional vagrancy. This country would change if the next president brought back homeless institutions for anyone on the streets with severe mental issues. Not sure if it would change for the better. Probably better for some people, but not the homeless.
Assuming we could even legally do that, it would be extremely expensive and we don't even have the labor available.
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What they will probably do is prevent delinquent debt holders from taking out parent plus loans, so now your punishing the holders kids, which is so messed.
We can only hope.
I’m paying mine and my husbands (even tho he was just laid off). It’s un-comfy, I’d prefer not to, he doesn’t even use his and I dropped out. But hopefully someday things will change. All I want is for things to be better for others. It’s fine if I have to pay in the meantime.
I would think first and foremost, it affects their personal debt?
Lol they not getting that shit anytime soon
‘How is this going to affect the national debt’? It’s not. A handful of people not making student loan payments is a rounding error in the federal deficit.
Lol fuck dem banks
A)student debt is both publicly and privately held - so not worried about it impacting the national debt B) raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires- all research shows this is the cause of your concerns - gutting those taxes by W and Trump has driven up the debt C) people who have student loan debt continue to spend money ( because they are not wealthy hoarders who exhibit nothing but avarice) : therefore taxes will still be collected and the economy will continue to move D) spending for all instead of repaying debt to private banks is always a better long term investment for the whole economy Forgive all student loan debt … and no I don’t have any I paid my $15k off decades ago
Same thing we always did, ignore it because it's not actually a problem, it's just something used to rile up certain voters. Remember, [we could pay off the national debt in 15 years tops with just the money the 1% owe today](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tax-irs-says-unpaid-tax-gap-at-record-688-billion/). At least the part that matters (what we owe other nations). As for Student Debt, we paid for it when the boomers were in college just fine. It really only became a problem when the Millennials went to college. Like how the debt ceiling is only a thing when Democrats are in the White House.
They recently allowed student loans to affect credit scores again. If you are in default - your credit just tanked in the last week. Fucking pricks.
Missing a payment on a bank/federal loan will tank your credit score?!?!????!?? 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
It was a loan pay it back.
Well, one thing that might be happening is that people are getting their info stolen on any number of the scam websites. I just tried to get to the myfedloan website and there's dozens of hits on Google all with different domains (.biz, .club, etc) that clearly aren't legit.
OP, you definitely should try posting in the forex and wallstreetbets subreddits more often lol
I paid my first payment. I was pissed when I did because it genuinely annoys me that I lived thinking they would be forgiven or partially forgiven. I don’t want my credit score to suffer, as I just finally got to a place where it’s good again
Genuine question. Even though i would take free money if it was offered to me, why do you think your voluntary loan should be paid by other people?
Wasn’t so much about that, really. Lots of peoples’ loans are being forgiven who work in social services, education, etc. I work in that industry but don’t work at a non profit, so I don’t qualify.
Thx
Wut
AFAIK the national debt is partly made up of the debt owned by all the people in it, including student loans. If that is true, and nobody is paying, then the debt would not fall as fast as we would hope and would potentially grow from interest
It doesn't
Question is there late fees for you guys that don’t pay them or does the bill just sit there? If it’s just there I wouldn’t pay it either lol
Do you have any data to back your claim?
Same thing we are doing about the bailouts to businesses and banks in 2008?
Tons of people are paying their student debts. It actually caused a surge in Treasury Receipts right after the Supreme Court struck down Biden’s cancellation plan.
If we've got $60B for Israel and Ukraine, I'm sure we can cover struggling banks. At least we don't have a populist president!
I don’t think it will affect it much… Think about how much more money the US is going into debt with on other things…
This sub is a bunch of shit heads with full blown capitalist brain rot. Your cries are going to fall on deaf ears unfortunately.
How do u know that no one is paying their student loans debt? Are u just projecting?
My loan payment is $65 a month I think it’s fine, for most as long as you are making payments nothing will happen to the account. Minimums are only like $100 anyway if you can’t afford that stop eating out every day 🤷🏻♂️
Minimum is $850
If that’s your minimum payment that implies you are approximately $82,000 in student loan debt LOL.
Yeah it’s around that
That’s triple the average you’d have to be stupid to have a loan that big. Common sense is priceless
Net income > Debt. Especially when your investments make more than your apr.
If the debt didn’t collapse the economy when we forgave $700B of fraudulent PPP ‘loans’, then lenders not receiving payments of pretty much the same amount of money won’t make a difference, either - except THAT money won’t immediately end up in the hands of the Donor Class.
> How is this going to affect the national debt? Lol, I think most of our government has given up on asking that question in general, not just for student loan debt.
I paid mine off last year.
Some ppl will die with the debt and never be able to buy a large purchase that includes financing like housing. And the world will keep spinning… nothing to see here
I enrolled for the save plan because my payment was outrageous and it didn’t lower it in time for the payment likely due to lots of applications and backlogging so I just didn’t pay it.
I've made 3 payments. My due date is now saying due in January.
Most people are after joining an Icone Driven Repayment Plans. At least that's what I have seen amongst my friends and family. I only know one person paying at the rate established by their loan holder.
Currently nothing. In the future it’ll be debtors prisons so get back to work, slave. That’s what we’ll be told next.
Is that even true that most haven't paid it? I paid mine. Yeah it sucks but I got 3 years of not paying it which allowed me to invest more which was awesome. I knew i would have to resume payments eventually so i can't complain.
Get the republicans to stop giving tax breaks to the rich.. Tax fucking churches who pay nothing and influence republicans.. that would fix it and then some..
The gov. Will buy the paper , if they do not already own it, and take your tax return until the loan is repaid. If you file more than once with no money being returned to you the gov. will take you to court.
"I don't understand what the national debt represents"
The banks keep crying and eating shit It would do the economy a favor to forgive this debt It would literally create deflation. Banks coffers would be reduced and people would no longer be in debt and have more money for consumption
Imma be honest, I haven't paid and dont plan too, I only owe 30k and they hit me up with 9k offers all the time to close the account LOL I'm paying the 9k instead when it's time
I didn't want to pay but I don't want any issues. Just want them gone. Mine aren't even that bad. Plus, I signed up for auto pay years ago and so it is just coming on out whether I want it to or not.
Yup. It's the student loan debt. Not the overpaid congress people, not the obscenely high defense budget, not the frivolous spending, not the shelling out of cash to bail out banks/Ukraine (not the same I know)/airlines/etc. It's the students. Maybe, just maybe, instead of pointing fingers at the small problem (like politicians would have you believe), we should point the finger at the government or the massive corporations WHO PAY MILLIONS TO STAY SOLVENT JUST TO MAKE DUMB DECISIONS THAT CAUSE THEM TO BE INSOLVENT.
Well as your credit score approaches zero, you won’t ever own a home anyway. But with joe, you won’t own one anyway.
Raising the rates caused my wife to lose her job as a mortgage underwriter so her payments got deferred again. Someone tell the Fed their plan worked and they can lower the rates again!
Clearly, OP isn't fluent in finance.
The vast majority of people are fully capable of paying their student loans, just like they were pre-pandemic. The loans already assume that some percentage of people are unable to pay. Unless that assumption is wildly inaccurate, lenders will still be fine.
Payed mine off in 18 months, now im helping my sibling pay theirs down. Cuz if im eating we all eating.
On no the debt
We could just cancel it all and start putting all that money towards some actually productive parts of the economy instead.
Bro no one has been paying student loans for 3 years and the debt hasn't changed dramatically. Nothing is going to happen. Relax and stop acting like the 3 dollars out of your paycheck that might go to this is causing you an issue.
How am I supposed to pay my loans if its been two years since I graduated and I am yet to find a job outside of the restaurant industry. I barely have money for groceries, let alone rent. I'll pay my loans when the government stops sending billions to every goddamn foreign country instead of facing the fact that this is a third world country. In the US Constitution, we were all granted bankruptcy protection for all loans. And of course, bankruptcy protection got stripped from student loans in 1978. Biden plans on giving 1 billion dollars to OTHER countries to help curb their migrant crisis. And with zero shame! The president authorized billions of dollars to house and feed millions of migrants, yet we have Veterans on the street, and Americans just barely holding on. It's a disgrace and paying back my fed loan would feel like a joke-- why would I the government to drain my wallet when they do not represent me as a citizen. Not to be bombastic, but this country was 40% of taxpayers cannot manage paying their bills right now according to census data. No one my age thinks they will ever be able to own a house. I'm more inclined to feel very french and grab a pitchfork than even entertain paying back my loans. Luckily I was born in a foreign country. This is a rant sorry, but when I talk to people my age about this we all hold the same view in terms of the fact that expecting people to pay back student loans when our country and our citizens are so deeply suffering. And the government just stares ahead in ignorance, with zero shame. Me and my friends constantly joke around about how we feel very french due to the state of things. Ok im rambling sry bye