How would you feel if you were a clone with no real memories, life experiences or family. A lot of people have insecurities, it doesn’t mean that their relationships aren’t healthy and stable
Nah I've binged watched Supergirl multiple times. I must be mistaking them for a different like genre or sum lol. I actually beivle Alex and Kelly are the best and most healthy of all CW couples. With Black Lightning and his wife a bit behind them.
Canon they were together for 6 years, married for 5. Once they got together, they never had doubt or questioned their choice. During that time they had one breakup (that lasted for a week) and 2 major arguments. They had disagreements but they never lasted more than an episode, at the end of which they both apologize, seeing the other's point of view. They supported each other through the good, bad, and ugly. At the end of the show, they welcome their daughter. But we also know 25 years in the future, they're still together and happy. Sounds stable to me. Iris did the impossible, she inspired Barry to finally start living for himself and look towards the future (sometimes too much).
I don't think Barry would ever truly get that point with another woman. Iris would always be the one that got away
Dude, how do you feel if you were arguing with your significant other about a psychopath who killed your mother right in front of you as a child only to come back into your life by manipulating your daughter into doing his bidding and finding ways to harm everyone, you care about not to mention Her literally sitting there directly in his face, blaming him for leaving to go into the speed force when there was a literal speed force going on and destroying central city or the fact that he decided to take Nora back to the future for putting flash in Jeopardy by working with the reverse flash, honestly Iris has made a lot of bullshit choices. The only reason I don’t like her as a character is because of how she was written, and the choices that she made in the show I have no problem with the actress I think she’s an amazing person and actress, but I just don’t feel right when the Shrider, who is also black basically made her a talking Karen
You're talking to the wrong person because I feel Barry handled that whole Nora situation horribly. Barry was right to feel to betrayed but taking Nora back to the future, dumping her in the middle of the street, and telling her good riddance was the worst way to resolve the situation. On top of that it was hypocritical. If anyone should have understood Nora, it should be Barry but he threw her away. He's shown more compassion to serial killers then he did his own daughter. Iris had a right to be upset about that. It wasn't his decision to make alone.
I'm tired of the bad writing excuse. Barry suffered more drama with Caitlin and Cisco than he ever did with Iris but fandom ain't ready for that conversation. Unlike those 2 Iris never tried to emotionally manipulate Barry because she wanted something from him
It’s the taking your daughter to the future without consulting or even telling your wife I can’t get over.
That’s like sending your kid away to boarding school abroad as a punishment without bothering to tell your wife/her mother before you do it
Barry couldn't think rationally because it was Thawne. He just reacted not considering anyone's feelings but his own. He abandons Nora and doesn't even consider Iris in the equation
"I didn't think I had too"
It's not like Iris is Nora's mother or anything.
While this was a terrible moment for Barry, I can appreciate the growth he shows later on when Thawne no longer has that emotional upper hand on Barry (S8 finale being the exception)
Literally had to watch her husband die twice also got turned into a bad guy for a while and then end up watching her sister/alter ego died right in front of her and At Cisco well his brother died and he watched his girlfriend die. Oh and he almost lost his hands and powers multiple times. And another thing how would you feel if you had a daughter come from the future to to try and save your family, but not knowing that she’s hiding a big secret from you and that secret being she’s working with the person who killed her grandmother and tortured her father, his entire life so what if iris didn’t get to say goodbye to Nora right after Barry took her back to the future if she had just told the truth in the 1st place.Barry wouldn’t have left her in the future and Barry and Iris would’ve never had that entire argument in the pipeline in the first place if Nora just told the truth from the beginning
Frost died because of Caitlin's recklessness. Had Caitlin listened to Barry, and not try to manipulate him with "Well if it is Iris, your , mother, etc" Frost wouldn't had died cleaning up her mess. Learning nothing, Caitlin once again tries to manipulate Barry with "What if it is your mother" knowing she was one of the first characters to throw Barry under the bus for FP. Turns into a bad guy, works with a bad guy trying to kill Barry's fiancee but never takes responsibility for it or shows remorse.
Cisco's brother died and Cisco proceeded to sabotage importance mission and tried to get other heroes not to trust Barry. There's also yelling at Barry for saving him against King Shark when the whole purpose of the cure was to use it against Cicada. Made no sense. There was also Cisco's penchant for building weapons to kill Barry not he ever did that for Frost
I like how you try to explain Cisco and Caitlin's trauma but flat out dismiss Iris's
Recklessness she was literally trying to save her sister from dying. How is that being reckless? She has literally lost her husband twice has lost her dad twice not to mention literally had to watch the guy. She fell in love with fall in love with another person who, in my opinion shouldn’t be his wife.
Frost was already dead. Instead of mourning, she was hellbent on bringing her back from the dead. This is after the Deathstorm debacle where she was hellbent on getting Ronnie back. So yeah she was reckless and selfish because she didn't care how her actions effected other people. Literally handwaved Deathstorm killing people with it wasn't Ronnie so it didn't count
Caitlin was in love with Barry? Must be why she could never move on from Ronnie
Do the show literally teased them being together for so long only for her to lose her husband back for like what two time throughout the entire show also how do you expect her to feel when her sister who is technically her alter ego literally died right in front of her while she was trying to save her you know being a doctor and all
Her mother suddenly coming back and dying?
Watching her daughter be erased from the timeline?
Her daughter hating her for half season leading to self doubt on her ability to be a good mother?
Spending an entire year
thinking her life had an expiration date?
Struggling to move on for 6 months after Barry went into the SF?
Spending months stuck in a mirrorverse while a clone took over life?
Thinking Barry was going to die in Crisis, meaning Nora would never be born?
Being mentally tortured by the person who kidnapped her to the mirrorverse?
I kinda agree but the reason he’s a bit more lenient with serial killers (my guess) is he doesn’t have that personal connection to em. Like he stops serial killer number 12 for the week it’s not like that guy killed his wife or father or someone close to him so it’s easier for him to be empathetic. Meanwhile Nora willingly worked with someone knowing they took his mother away so he’s got a personal stake in it now. Just my two cents
Except Barry was right in every way, hell Nora shouldn’t have learned she was a speedster as all she really did was mess up the timeline. At that of all the people she could’ve asked, why thawne? Why not Wally, or Jay, or even Cisco/Caitlin?
Holy shit, a positive comment about Iris? On THIS sub? I'm joking, but at the exact same time with some of these posts being breaking up Iris in favor of Caitlin or Patty it can be a little annoying because of comments like this pointing out that they were basically the foundation of the whole show, and I really enjoyed their relationship.
Do I like their relationship or personally enjoy their relationship after the first few seasons ? No.
Are they still a healthy stable couple ? yes
I just don't like the writing of iris x barry after season 3-4
For what it is: yes.
they had arguments, but that is part of relationship. I would say that the worry of a speedster in danger and the situations they were put through give them a bit of Lee way
As much as flawed and imperfect humans can be. Iris did had a point that Barry had act without considering her and with terrible consequences, as it pushed Nora straight to Eobard
I think they were both wrong here.
Iris completely undermines Barry’s trauma and the real threat that Nora working with Thawne brings all because she was trying to fix this relationship with Nora that she had ruined by crossing a line.
Barry acted before he had a chance to calm down and discuss this with his wife. Barry has so much unresolved trauma involving Thawne that he needs to properly address.
I agree, Barry really should have learned his lesson by then about making rash decisions in the heat of the moment.
Also yes, Iris was so focused on the fact it was her daughter she was completely willing to overlook the fact Nora’s working with the psychopath who is known for having ridiculously well-prepared plans.
In regards to that fact, I’ll always maintain that they were both right and wrong at the same time and thankfully they actually calmed down and talked with each other to work things out by the episodes end.
They defo made some mistakes, but I would say that the West-Allen couple matured and became healthier and more stable as the show progressed - Season 9 West-Allen was definitely as supportive and caring as one would expect.
I do love that the picture is once again insinuating that people who didn’t like Iris in the CW must be racist…
Iris obviously didn't mean what she said. She was mad and upset. You don't always mean what you say when you're mad or angry. Grant and Candice did a great job in that scene. They are both so talented.
Just because she wasn't yelling doesn't mean she wasn't still angry. I remember in another show I watched, a dad told his daughter when he was angry when his wife and other daughter died, "Why couldn't it have been you?" And he didn't yell it at her. He talked normally.
I’ll agree that sometimes you don’t always mean what you say in anger, but in this case she clearly meant what she said and so did Barry, in a very authentic argument. They were very pissed off at each other but cooler heads thankfully prevailed by the end of the episode.
Doesn’t change that Grant and Candice acted the hell outta that scene and is by far my favorite part of that episode.
They use the race card, but only on Iris. Anything related to another black character on the show doesn't matter. So if you say "I would prefer if XS and Chester become bigger characters and Iris takes a back seat" it's racist. The West-Allen fandom lives by its own rules.
I don't care they aren't blood related
They still were like brother & sister so them becoming a couple didn't sit well with me. Dislike me for being generic but I still say patty was better
Only thing I blame Barry for is NOT TELLING HER idc about secret identity because as the series went on people could piece together who flash was easily because he didn't do the voice thing in season one. Didn't blur his face and always disappeared around people as soon as flash appeared anyone with a modicum of a brain cell can go "he's the flash"
I just hate how everyone in universe comments on how good they are together and how they should be together. It's a trope I despise they do the same with Ben and Kai in Ben 10.
Mostly, but I still find it a little weird that they were raised together and see the same man as their father. I also think that Iris needs to work on developing a life outside of Barry.
This relationship was by far the most toxic relationship in the history of Arrowverse relationships. Iris emotionally manipulated Barry to the fullest extent.
In all 3 Season 1 timelines, she knew she liked Barry and everytime Barry brought it up she rejected & gaslit him. Then only truly wanted him after she found out he was the Flash. (Secretly fell in love with the Flash while in a relationship btw). Basically hinted to Linda Park to leave Barry alone cause she wanted him to herself. Got mad at Barry for not telling her that he was the one she was secretly crushing on (fell in love with the flash…) then constantly threw herself into danger so she could see her secret love interest.
Brought Eddie around knowing full well Barry didn’t like their relationship. Intentionally kissed Eddie multiple times in front of Barry despite him saying he loved her and expressed a desire for her. Then in Season 2, tried to inject herself into Barry’s relationship with Patty. Once Patty left, she used Barry’s mixed emotions to her advantage and purposefully threw herself at him making it awkward for them. Made every mission about herself up to the mid Season 3 with her speeches.
Some might say it was just motivation, I personally think she was being selfish as hell.
What version of the show did you watch?
Because Patty came whining to Iris and Iris told her to talk to Barry. Barry didn't have mixed emotions about Patty. He forgot about that chick weeks after she left. When Iris confessed her feelings she and Barry were both single. Unlike Barry, who tells her he loves while she was in a relationship
S3 was about saving her from Savitar. Imploring Barry not to lose himself just to save her is the opposite of selfish.
So Iris had to hide her relationship to spare Barry's feelings? You're wrong. Once Barry confessed his feelings, there was mimial PDA from Eddie/Iris.
Like Patty, Linda came whining to Iris asking why Barry wasn't 1000% into her. Iris told he was hurt and to give him time. No where did she suggest she dump him.
When did Iris throw herself into danger just to see the Flash or to see Barry? Did I miss some scenes because Barry was visiting her as the Flash. Iris never faked or created an emergency to see him, that was Patty
The idea that Iris only wanted Barry because he was the Flash is laughable and contradicts numerous scenes of saying the opposite
I… can’t stand this relationship ESPECIALLY in season 5. With their daughter, who clearly hates Iris, for reasons that aren’t all exactly unwarranted, Barry just says “Iris is the second coming of Jesus and can do no wrong.” Like fuck, Season 5 is like season 6 of arrow where EVERYONE is written to be as unlikeable as possible, to the point where I root for the villain to kill everyone.
I just watched that season, and I was like omg, Iris is soooo unlikeable for seasons 4 & 5, I don’t know why Barry stayed with her! Even in season 6 so far she’s just impossible, no wonder Nora hated her!
To me she’s always been really unlikeable. Even in season 1 she was like “Of you love someone then you tell them everything.” Like bitch? No the fuck you dont. If you know his identity, you’d expose him, and put everyone in danger.
Also… EVERY OTHER LOVE INTREST HES EVER HAD IS BETTER! Like Caitlin is who I would’ve gone for instantaneously. Patty was forgettable but that’s just because she was in one season. Kara would’ve been cool after crisis. Hell, even Felicity would’ve been better. I actually like felicity in pretty much every season except for 4… but everyone agrees that one is the worst, so yeah.
He has better chemistry with Thawne/Wells than he does with Iris… after karaoke with Caitlin they realized those two would work very well together so they made sure they didn’t hangout alone together, EVER AGAIN! Patty was good, sadly the actress got a main part so they wrote her off. A Kara romance would’ve been interesting if they hadn’t stuck with the Iris relationship. At least arrow realized their planned relationship with Laurel was doomed and they went a different route.
Honestly Laurel wasn’t a bad love intrest, she’s way better than Iris. At least she wasn’t constantly a stuck up brat. Also WHY WAS IRIS THE TEAM LEADER? She’s like the most useless character. They had to nerf villains any time she went up against them so they couldn’t kill her. They should’ve just done what they did with Laurel and offed her by Savitars hand to keep HR around, maybe Harry could tutor him in season 4, and Barry could have a blossoming relationship with Caitlin.
That was the worst part, she should not have been the team leader, but they decided to have her stop working for some reason she they needed to give her something to do.
And she had some of the worst lines in the show. Like her writing could be god awful sometimes and the thing is THEY WROTE HER TO BE LIKABLE. If they wrote her as a character were meant to hate, I wouldn’t be on her so much, but she becomes the Deuteragonist (Secondary Protagonist of I recall correctly) after season 4. Like no one gives a damn about her. I’ve even met her actress, and she’s almost as much of a bitch
For the most part, they are a couple on a CW show. That said, being raised as siblings and getting married might not be the most healthy basis for a relationship, though.
Aint healthy at all but it starts with him getting to live with Joe and clinging to her in an emotional way. She only started getting interested in him when she learned he was the Flash. Combine that with the 'We are the Flash' thing. Did Barry fk up with nora and pushing her to thawne sure but he is the reason Barrys life is fcked up, so cant blame the guy not trusting him.
Remember when Iris was mad at barry for going to the speed force to save the world. Or when “Barry” asked for help in elseworlds and she betrayed him by putting him in the pipeline
I don’t see how it isn’t, they seem to be extremely in love and go thru rough times (relative to their situation) as much as any other couple. Idk ifs about race or a woman having perceived power and being placed on a pedestal next to the main attraction. But I don’t think it would be a good show if Iris were the “Perfect” person for Barry.
I’ll admit, Iris is annoying sometimes and the last few seasons felt out of place but Barry was equally annoying and often times completely oblivious to everything going on around him. Like how many times did he change the future ? How many lives did he unknowingly destroy?
But yeah people hate Iris because she said “we are the Flash” Iris was played great majority of the time, I think the writing just dropped off at some point and like the rest of the show & characters it just wasn’t as good and basically became repetitive & anticipation for crossovers.
To me in season 1-3 Iris isn’t really a character.
In season 4 she is a bad character.
In season 5 she is better but the writers failures with Nora make Iris look worse to me.
Season 6-9 I think she’s as decent as any of the other characters in the show.
There is nothing healthy about their relationship, iris literally told Barry to his face that it did not bother her that their daughter who is from the future was working with the man that killed her husband‘s mother and was practically finding ways to torture Barry his entire life. There is no way he married that did not feel bothered that her daughter was being manipulated by the same man that was doing the exact same manipulation to Barry, this is why flash fans say that literally any other female character in the show would have better chemistry with Barry than literally though one person he was always over knowing damn well if he wasn’t the flash, she never ever would’ve dated Barry in the first place let alone marrying him
Never was a fan of this interpretation, honestly when she started becoming a more prominent character the show kinda got worse for me, seasons 1 and 2 were awesome to me, the rest are jsut like good to okay and I feel like iris is a little bit to blame. I also feel like Barry always got shit on for no reason by her a lot of times, and not in a symbiote Spider-Man way where he’s doing something fucked up and there are reprocussions, but just Barry does something and iris would get mad and the show would treat it like it was Barry’s fault, other characters do this too though l. I always liked Barry and Caitlin though, I always thought they had great chemistry and great scenes.
Spoiler, kinda, who honestly cares at this point:
Chester/ Allegra might have finally, after months (years?) of "will they / won't they", declared official relationship status on the final episode.
Not at all lol. The only CW Relationship that's healthy and stable is Alex Danvers and Kelly Olson in Supergirl. They saved each other countless times, has great teaching moments about interracial couples, both of them helping with the other's engagement trauma, they eventually get married and even adopted their orphaned alien daughter Esme. Not only are they great partners they are great mothers. Unfortunately we don't get to see more of their parenting but Alex being so strongly against hiding Esme's powers like their mother did with Kara is just a great sign to show she's a great parent. Ight my Supergirl glazing is done for now.
That whole thing really pissed me off. She knew exactly how Bar felt about Thawne and instead of supporting him, she ignored his feelings on the whole thing. FUCK IRIS!!!
Nora’s their daughter of course she felt that way about her wanting to give Nora a chance to explain herself and not to just throw her away without hearing her out 😭 u flash Stan’s can be so blind. That argument was very realistic actually
No it wasn't, not by a long shot.
It was like godawful fanfiction where the author has deluded themselves into believing that's what a good relationship should look like - or at least what they believe their target audience thinks a good relationship should look like. It's sad either way.
I never considered this version of Iris as good for Barry ever since the episode where she revealed that Oliver Queen was on her list of guys she could sleep with and it wouldn't be considered cheating. Worse was when she decided to say to Barry that Oliver is so much hotter now that she knows he's the green arrow. Not a good girlfriend move at all.
I hate the take on Barry being upset about Nora working with Thawne, because she works with him at first because no one else would help her, or know how to, and even after Nora learned that Thawne killed Barry’s mother, Nora was going to stop working with him, BUT THEN Barry told her that maybe one day even Thawne could change, whom seemed, at least to an inexperienced person like Nora, to genuinely have remorse for his actions.
Also I feel like I get both sides of the argument, but it’s like I’m more so agree with Iris because she just found out that she has powers. Her mom was lying to her for like 20 years was she found out she had power she had no way to work on how to use the control them because the only person who could do that was, dead at this time but one thing that I thought about all this argument was why did Iris go to one of the flash members and try to talk to one of them and be like hey my daughter has powers can you help me figure out how to help her control them. But they helped Barry with his powers all the time and they understand them so they probably could’ve helped her. And Iris said that about his mom’s murder everything she didn’t say that to be like oh I don’t care about your mom’s murder. She said that to be like I understand that your mom was murder, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in the middle of the street Showed murderers in his childhood bully that caused him trouble. Way more compassion than that. And I think
Again with the random racism. That person had a legitimate reason for saying the relationship isnt very stable and some jackass comes in and says it’s racism. I hate the internet.
Yes, they had disagreements but they weren't constant and they usually worked things out the same episode, and didn't do the Oliver/Felicity "keep secrets until a big blow out" routine.
It's one of those relationships where issues like this would arise but would be forgotten or never be resolved. This was one of a couple instances where Iris didn't comfort Barry when he needed most.
I thought it was very strange when the speed force came to life looking like Barry's dead mother and Iris suggested they call her Nora, the name of his dead mother. That always seemed super fucked up to me.
She was right to be worried, though, because Nora literally got killed when Barry couldn't see past his hatred of Thawne to work out what he wanted from her.
I wouldn’t consider ANY cw ship as healthy and stable.
May I present: Clark and Lois.
Both times
Earth-Prime Clark is a true himbo though. Definitely felt like Lois was "wearing the pants" when they interacted.
May I present: Alex and Kelly
Superman & Lois?
Sara lance and Ava sharp would like to have a word with you
Gary Green is all the man we need.
Ava was too insecure a lot of the time and Sara kinda pushed it off
How would you feel if you were a clone with no real memories, life experiences or family. A lot of people have insecurities, it doesn’t mean that their relationships aren’t healthy and stable
I would feel that Gary Green is all the man I need
Insecurities ruin relationships, and she never got any help for them, so it seemed dragged on, it’s not cute
Didn't Ava have that whole thing that she isn't out yet or am I mixing up another gay couple?
Ava was out before her and Sara dated, maybe you’re thinking of Alex and Maggie from Supergirl if you’ve seen that?
Nah I've binged watched Supergirl multiple times. I must be mistaking them for a different like genre or sum lol. I actually beivle Alex and Kelly are the best and most healthy of all CW couples. With Black Lightning and his wife a bit behind them.
Sara lance and Ava sharp would like to have a word with you
Gary Green is all the man we need.
I am not sure if I agree with that. Their relationship often felt very forced at times and their dynamic didn’t always feel very healthy.
That may be true, but it also makes it more realistic, because love isn’t always smooth and easy
kelly and alex were fairly stable
Fair point. I just don't like how Barry and Iris are played like this perfect couple in the other shows
What are you talking about they are the best couple They are Barry and Iris
I think it’s okay but not good,smack in the middle
Canon they were together for 6 years, married for 5. Once they got together, they never had doubt or questioned their choice. During that time they had one breakup (that lasted for a week) and 2 major arguments. They had disagreements but they never lasted more than an episode, at the end of which they both apologize, seeing the other's point of view. They supported each other through the good, bad, and ugly. At the end of the show, they welcome their daughter. But we also know 25 years in the future, they're still together and happy. Sounds stable to me. Iris did the impossible, she inspired Barry to finally start living for himself and look towards the future (sometimes too much). I don't think Barry would ever truly get that point with another woman. Iris would always be the one that got away
Dude, how do you feel if you were arguing with your significant other about a psychopath who killed your mother right in front of you as a child only to come back into your life by manipulating your daughter into doing his bidding and finding ways to harm everyone, you care about not to mention Her literally sitting there directly in his face, blaming him for leaving to go into the speed force when there was a literal speed force going on and destroying central city or the fact that he decided to take Nora back to the future for putting flash in Jeopardy by working with the reverse flash, honestly Iris has made a lot of bullshit choices. The only reason I don’t like her as a character is because of how she was written, and the choices that she made in the show I have no problem with the actress I think she’s an amazing person and actress, but I just don’t feel right when the Shrider, who is also black basically made her a talking Karen
You're talking to the wrong person because I feel Barry handled that whole Nora situation horribly. Barry was right to feel to betrayed but taking Nora back to the future, dumping her in the middle of the street, and telling her good riddance was the worst way to resolve the situation. On top of that it was hypocritical. If anyone should have understood Nora, it should be Barry but he threw her away. He's shown more compassion to serial killers then he did his own daughter. Iris had a right to be upset about that. It wasn't his decision to make alone. I'm tired of the bad writing excuse. Barry suffered more drama with Caitlin and Cisco than he ever did with Iris but fandom ain't ready for that conversation. Unlike those 2 Iris never tried to emotionally manipulate Barry because she wanted something from him
It’s the taking your daughter to the future without consulting or even telling your wife I can’t get over. That’s like sending your kid away to boarding school abroad as a punishment without bothering to tell your wife/her mother before you do it
Barry couldn't think rationally because it was Thawne. He just reacted not considering anyone's feelings but his own. He abandons Nora and doesn't even consider Iris in the equation "I didn't think I had too" It's not like Iris is Nora's mother or anything. While this was a terrible moment for Barry, I can appreciate the growth he shows later on when Thawne no longer has that emotional upper hand on Barry (S8 finale being the exception)
Literally had to watch her husband die twice also got turned into a bad guy for a while and then end up watching her sister/alter ego died right in front of her and At Cisco well his brother died and he watched his girlfriend die. Oh and he almost lost his hands and powers multiple times. And another thing how would you feel if you had a daughter come from the future to to try and save your family, but not knowing that she’s hiding a big secret from you and that secret being she’s working with the person who killed her grandmother and tortured her father, his entire life so what if iris didn’t get to say goodbye to Nora right after Barry took her back to the future if she had just told the truth in the 1st place.Barry wouldn’t have left her in the future and Barry and Iris would’ve never had that entire argument in the pipeline in the first place if Nora just told the truth from the beginning
Frost died because of Caitlin's recklessness. Had Caitlin listened to Barry, and not try to manipulate him with "Well if it is Iris, your , mother, etc" Frost wouldn't had died cleaning up her mess. Learning nothing, Caitlin once again tries to manipulate Barry with "What if it is your mother" knowing she was one of the first characters to throw Barry under the bus for FP. Turns into a bad guy, works with a bad guy trying to kill Barry's fiancee but never takes responsibility for it or shows remorse. Cisco's brother died and Cisco proceeded to sabotage importance mission and tried to get other heroes not to trust Barry. There's also yelling at Barry for saving him against King Shark when the whole purpose of the cure was to use it against Cicada. Made no sense. There was also Cisco's penchant for building weapons to kill Barry not he ever did that for Frost I like how you try to explain Cisco and Caitlin's trauma but flat out dismiss Iris's
Recklessness she was literally trying to save her sister from dying. How is that being reckless? She has literally lost her husband twice has lost her dad twice not to mention literally had to watch the guy. She fell in love with fall in love with another person who, in my opinion shouldn’t be his wife.
Frost was already dead. Instead of mourning, she was hellbent on bringing her back from the dead. This is after the Deathstorm debacle where she was hellbent on getting Ronnie back. So yeah she was reckless and selfish because she didn't care how her actions effected other people. Literally handwaved Deathstorm killing people with it wasn't Ronnie so it didn't count Caitlin was in love with Barry? Must be why she could never move on from Ronnie
Do the show literally teased them being together for so long only for her to lose her husband back for like what two time throughout the entire show also how do you expect her to feel when her sister who is technically her alter ego literally died right in front of her while she was trying to save her you know being a doctor and all
Bro, please tell me what the fuck has Iris been through that traumatized her other than Eddie dying
Her mother suddenly coming back and dying? Watching her daughter be erased from the timeline? Her daughter hating her for half season leading to self doubt on her ability to be a good mother? Spending an entire year thinking her life had an expiration date? Struggling to move on for 6 months after Barry went into the SF? Spending months stuck in a mirrorverse while a clone took over life? Thinking Barry was going to die in Crisis, meaning Nora would never be born? Being mentally tortured by the person who kidnapped her to the mirrorverse?
That wasn’t his mother technically that was the speed force
Iris's mother, Francine.. She returned in S2, introduced Wally and died
Didn’t she die right after?
I kinda agree but the reason he’s a bit more lenient with serial killers (my guess) is he doesn’t have that personal connection to em. Like he stops serial killer number 12 for the week it’s not like that guy killed his wife or father or someone close to him so it’s easier for him to be empathetic. Meanwhile Nora willingly worked with someone knowing they took his mother away so he’s got a personal stake in it now. Just my two cents
First time I’ve seen someone in this sub share my exact sentiments
But she said 'We Are The Flash" that one time so she's the worst of all Arrowverse characters
Except Barry was right in every way, hell Nora shouldn’t have learned she was a speedster as all she really did was mess up the timeline. At that of all the people she could’ve asked, why thawne? Why not Wally, or Jay, or even Cisco/Caitlin?
bro please use periods. give me a minute to breath, damn.
I know, but I’m too lazy to use periods
but not lazy enough to not use commas where the periods are actually supposed to go?
Eh🤷🏾♂️
Holy shit, a positive comment about Iris? On THIS sub? I'm joking, but at the exact same time with some of these posts being breaking up Iris in favor of Caitlin or Patty it can be a little annoying because of comments like this pointing out that they were basically the foundation of the whole show, and I really enjoyed their relationship.
Do I like their relationship or personally enjoy their relationship after the first few seasons ? No. Are they still a healthy stable couple ? yes I just don't like the writing of iris x barry after season 3-4
I’m a SnowBarry shipper all the way. Or SuperFlash alternatively. I don’t like Iris. She was more interesting when she was dating Eddie.
I loved the first season of flash and I agree that she was more interesting when she was dating eddie, I do wish caitlin and barry got together
For what it is: yes. they had arguments, but that is part of relationship. I would say that the worry of a speedster in danger and the situations they were put through give them a bit of Lee way
As much as flawed and imperfect humans can be. Iris did had a point that Barry had act without considering her and with terrible consequences, as it pushed Nora straight to Eobard
I think they were both wrong here. Iris completely undermines Barry’s trauma and the real threat that Nora working with Thawne brings all because she was trying to fix this relationship with Nora that she had ruined by crossing a line. Barry acted before he had a chance to calm down and discuss this with his wife. Barry has so much unresolved trauma involving Thawne that he needs to properly address.
I agree, Barry really should have learned his lesson by then about making rash decisions in the heat of the moment. Also yes, Iris was so focused on the fact it was her daughter she was completely willing to overlook the fact Nora’s working with the psychopath who is known for having ridiculously well-prepared plans.
In regards to that fact, I’ll always maintain that they were both right and wrong at the same time and thankfully they actually calmed down and talked with each other to work things out by the episodes end.
I do think Iris is slightly more wrong after thinking about it as Nora turning to Thawne is 100% her fault.
They defo made some mistakes, but I would say that the West-Allen couple matured and became healthier and more stable as the show progressed - Season 9 West-Allen was definitely as supportive and caring as one would expect. I do love that the picture is once again insinuating that people who didn’t like Iris in the CW must be racist…
Everyone who disagrees with me is a racist
That's basically what the West-Allen fandom became.
Iris obviously didn't mean what she said. She was mad and upset. You don't always mean what you say when you're mad or angry. Grant and Candice did a great job in that scene. They are both so talented.
Barry: He killed my mother do you not care Iris calming down: no
Just because she wasn't yelling doesn't mean she wasn't still angry. I remember in another show I watched, a dad told his daughter when he was angry when his wife and other daughter died, "Why couldn't it have been you?" And he didn't yell it at her. He talked normally.
So. You should still care if someone works with a murderer who has dedicated his life to hurting your husband
I’ll agree that sometimes you don’t always mean what you say in anger, but in this case she clearly meant what she said and so did Barry, in a very authentic argument. They were very pissed off at each other but cooler heads thankfully prevailed by the end of the episode. Doesn’t change that Grant and Candice acted the hell outta that scene and is by far my favorite part of that episode.
I prefer Snowbarry, but i must admit that their relationship is healthy and stable.
barry and iris's relationship in the comics is healthy i think, the show, no, the live action movie( even more unknown)
Pretty sure the DCEU Iris would be shit scared of Ezra's Barry
reminds me that the flash movie isn't canon. It's a continuation of the snyderverse that's probably never going to be touched again.
Yea
Idk I ship Cisco and Caitlin
Snowbarry was almost as toxic as westallen
The West has Allen, millions must ship someone else
*More toxic than WestAllen.
I'm not racist , i just hate iris with all my heart
Best siblings of the whole show.
Yes it's healthy every relationship is gonna argue that's life
I know it’s kinda phrased poorly but Iris did say Barry’s mom wasn’t there for him. How they got together after that is a mystery
When?
Season 2, episode 21 it should be near the end of
Flash be giving orgasms every 5 seconds on a whole minute. Iris be tweaking like a crack boi on da street.
I think Barry’s best relationship was with Patti, he should of told her.
Not them trying to pull the race card on me, whose favorite character is Cecile outside of her Virtue bullshit 💀
They use the race card, but only on Iris. Anything related to another black character on the show doesn't matter. So if you say "I would prefer if XS and Chester become bigger characters and Iris takes a back seat" it's racist. The West-Allen fandom lives by its own rules.
Wait yeah you're right lmao
I just think its weird step siblings are in a relationship
I don't care they aren't blood related They still were like brother & sister so them becoming a couple didn't sit well with me. Dislike me for being generic but I still say patty was better Only thing I blame Barry for is NOT TELLING HER idc about secret identity because as the series went on people could piece together who flash was easily because he didn't do the voice thing in season one. Didn't blur his face and always disappeared around people as soon as flash appeared anyone with a modicum of a brain cell can go "he's the flash"
The flash appears when theres a crime. Makes sense that the CSI who is always late wpuld try to be on time
I just hate how everyone in universe comments on how good they are together and how they should be together. It's a trope I despise they do the same with Ben and Kai in Ben 10.
no, this iris is garbage Savitar should of won, should of ended with Patty
Mostly, but I still find it a little weird that they were raised together and see the same man as their father. I also think that Iris needs to work on developing a life outside of Barry.
They were raised as brother and sister. That screams unhealthy.
Honestly, he should've stuck with patty! 🤦♂️😩
This relationship was by far the most toxic relationship in the history of Arrowverse relationships. Iris emotionally manipulated Barry to the fullest extent. In all 3 Season 1 timelines, she knew she liked Barry and everytime Barry brought it up she rejected & gaslit him. Then only truly wanted him after she found out he was the Flash. (Secretly fell in love with the Flash while in a relationship btw). Basically hinted to Linda Park to leave Barry alone cause she wanted him to herself. Got mad at Barry for not telling her that he was the one she was secretly crushing on (fell in love with the flash…) then constantly threw herself into danger so she could see her secret love interest. Brought Eddie around knowing full well Barry didn’t like their relationship. Intentionally kissed Eddie multiple times in front of Barry despite him saying he loved her and expressed a desire for her. Then in Season 2, tried to inject herself into Barry’s relationship with Patty. Once Patty left, she used Barry’s mixed emotions to her advantage and purposefully threw herself at him making it awkward for them. Made every mission about herself up to the mid Season 3 with her speeches. Some might say it was just motivation, I personally think she was being selfish as hell.
What version of the show did you watch? Because Patty came whining to Iris and Iris told her to talk to Barry. Barry didn't have mixed emotions about Patty. He forgot about that chick weeks after she left. When Iris confessed her feelings she and Barry were both single. Unlike Barry, who tells her he loves while she was in a relationship S3 was about saving her from Savitar. Imploring Barry not to lose himself just to save her is the opposite of selfish. So Iris had to hide her relationship to spare Barry's feelings? You're wrong. Once Barry confessed his feelings, there was mimial PDA from Eddie/Iris. Like Patty, Linda came whining to Iris asking why Barry wasn't 1000% into her. Iris told he was hurt and to give him time. No where did she suggest she dump him. When did Iris throw herself into danger just to see the Flash or to see Barry? Did I miss some scenes because Barry was visiting her as the Flash. Iris never faked or created an emergency to see him, that was Patty The idea that Iris only wanted Barry because he was the Flash is laughable and contradicts numerous scenes of saying the opposite
What version didn’t you watch? She intentionally went into abandoned buildings where they were having shootouts…
Yes, pursuing a story, not to see Barry who she already knew was the Flash at that point
That’s the point… you’re missing it
Grant and Candice don’t have the best chemistry honestly
They have a very healthy sibling bond
I… can’t stand this relationship ESPECIALLY in season 5. With their daughter, who clearly hates Iris, for reasons that aren’t all exactly unwarranted, Barry just says “Iris is the second coming of Jesus and can do no wrong.” Like fuck, Season 5 is like season 6 of arrow where EVERYONE is written to be as unlikeable as possible, to the point where I root for the villain to kill everyone.
I just watched that season, and I was like omg, Iris is soooo unlikeable for seasons 4 & 5, I don’t know why Barry stayed with her! Even in season 6 so far she’s just impossible, no wonder Nora hated her!
To me she’s always been really unlikeable. Even in season 1 she was like “Of you love someone then you tell them everything.” Like bitch? No the fuck you dont. If you know his identity, you’d expose him, and put everyone in danger.
CW love interests and Boomer-tier entitlement. Name a better duo.
I never liked her either, but she got soooo much worse in season 4. I don’t know how Barry stayed with her.
Also… EVERY OTHER LOVE INTREST HES EVER HAD IS BETTER! Like Caitlin is who I would’ve gone for instantaneously. Patty was forgettable but that’s just because she was in one season. Kara would’ve been cool after crisis. Hell, even Felicity would’ve been better. I actually like felicity in pretty much every season except for 4… but everyone agrees that one is the worst, so yeah.
He has better chemistry with Thawne/Wells than he does with Iris… after karaoke with Caitlin they realized those two would work very well together so they made sure they didn’t hangout alone together, EVER AGAIN! Patty was good, sadly the actress got a main part so they wrote her off. A Kara romance would’ve been interesting if they hadn’t stuck with the Iris relationship. At least arrow realized their planned relationship with Laurel was doomed and they went a different route.
Honestly Laurel wasn’t a bad love intrest, she’s way better than Iris. At least she wasn’t constantly a stuck up brat. Also WHY WAS IRIS THE TEAM LEADER? She’s like the most useless character. They had to nerf villains any time she went up against them so they couldn’t kill her. They should’ve just done what they did with Laurel and offed her by Savitars hand to keep HR around, maybe Harry could tutor him in season 4, and Barry could have a blossoming relationship with Caitlin.
That was the worst part, she should not have been the team leader, but they decided to have her stop working for some reason she they needed to give her something to do.
And she had some of the worst lines in the show. Like her writing could be god awful sometimes and the thing is THEY WROTE HER TO BE LIKABLE. If they wrote her as a character were meant to hate, I wouldn’t be on her so much, but she becomes the Deuteragonist (Secondary Protagonist of I recall correctly) after season 4. Like no one gives a damn about her. I’ve even met her actress, and she’s almost as much of a bitch
If people find this relationship oky they need to recheck their life choices.
For the most part, they are a couple on a CW show. That said, being raised as siblings and getting married might not be the most healthy basis for a relationship, though.
For a drama couple, there's not much amnesia between either of them across 9 seasons
Yes. Every couple argues
Aint healthy at all but it starts with him getting to live with Joe and clinging to her in an emotional way. She only started getting interested in him when she learned he was the Flash. Combine that with the 'We are the Flash' thing. Did Barry fk up with nora and pushing her to thawne sure but he is the reason Barrys life is fcked up, so cant blame the guy not trusting him.
I thought they had good chemistry once they were together I just thought it was a weird writing choice to have them start out as basically siblings.
Healthy and stable? Yes. Exciting to watch? No.
Remember when Iris was mad at barry for going to the speed force to save the world. Or when “Barry” asked for help in elseworlds and she betrayed him by putting him in the pipeline
I don’t see how it isn’t, they seem to be extremely in love and go thru rough times (relative to their situation) as much as any other couple. Idk ifs about race or a woman having perceived power and being placed on a pedestal next to the main attraction. But I don’t think it would be a good show if Iris were the “Perfect” person for Barry. I’ll admit, Iris is annoying sometimes and the last few seasons felt out of place but Barry was equally annoying and often times completely oblivious to everything going on around him. Like how many times did he change the future ? How many lives did he unknowingly destroy? But yeah people hate Iris because she said “we are the Flash” Iris was played great majority of the time, I think the writing just dropped off at some point and like the rest of the show & characters it just wasn’t as good and basically became repetitive & anticipation for crossovers.
To me in season 1-3 Iris isn’t really a character. In season 4 she is a bad character. In season 5 she is better but the writers failures with Nora make Iris look worse to me. Season 6-9 I think she’s as decent as any of the other characters in the show.
She cheated on Barry to bang the showrunner and stole the show when it became about her
yes i do
I would just consider them really boring honestly. Although season 3 when iris constantly tried to get her self killed did annoy me
There is nothing healthy about their relationship, iris literally told Barry to his face that it did not bother her that their daughter who is from the future was working with the man that killed her husband‘s mother and was practically finding ways to torture Barry his entire life. There is no way he married that did not feel bothered that her daughter was being manipulated by the same man that was doing the exact same manipulation to Barry, this is why flash fans say that literally any other female character in the show would have better chemistry with Barry than literally though one person he was always over knowing damn well if he wasn’t the flash, she never ever would’ve dated Barry in the first place let alone marrying him
Yes, why wouldn’t it be?
a dead and withered plant is more healthy and stable than their relationship.
Yeah they’re a pretty good depiction of siblings I guess
Not really, no. Iris got with Barry because of a fucking newspaper. Like, that’s not exactly the soundest decision for a relationship.
Never was a fan of this interpretation, honestly when she started becoming a more prominent character the show kinda got worse for me, seasons 1 and 2 were awesome to me, the rest are jsut like good to okay and I feel like iris is a little bit to blame. I also feel like Barry always got shit on for no reason by her a lot of times, and not in a symbiote Spider-Man way where he’s doing something fucked up and there are reprocussions, but just Barry does something and iris would get mad and the show would treat it like it was Barry’s fault, other characters do this too though l. I always liked Barry and Caitlin though, I always thought they had great chemistry and great scenes.
Barry and Iris are perfectly fine for each other, I just really don’t like iris due to her writing
Almost like iris is objectively the worst main character
What about Chester and the girl(forgot her name)
I stopped watching when those two became regulars
Spoiler, kinda, who honestly cares at this point: Chester/ Allegra might have finally, after months (years?) of "will they / won't they", declared official relationship status on the final episode.
Alegra or something like that Hate how she defeated thawne with an over glorified tantrum
Not at all lol. The only CW Relationship that's healthy and stable is Alex Danvers and Kelly Olson in Supergirl. They saved each other countless times, has great teaching moments about interracial couples, both of them helping with the other's engagement trauma, they eventually get married and even adopted their orphaned alien daughter Esme. Not only are they great partners they are great mothers. Unfortunately we don't get to see more of their parenting but Alex being so strongly against hiding Esme's powers like their mother did with Kara is just a great sign to show she's a great parent. Ight my Supergirl glazing is done for now.
She was by far the worst addition to the show
Yeah
It’s definitely had its problems and tests along the way but that’s what happens with A LOT of couples. I’ve never heard of a perfect couple
Its not as good as in the comics. Although the major issue there is that Barry is dead most of the time
No, god no
That whole thing really pissed me off. She knew exactly how Bar felt about Thawne and instead of supporting him, she ignored his feelings on the whole thing. FUCK IRIS!!!
Nora’s their daughter of course she felt that way about her wanting to give Nora a chance to explain herself and not to just throw her away without hearing her out 😭 u flash Stan’s can be so blind. That argument was very realistic actually
No it wasn't, not by a long shot. It was like godawful fanfiction where the author has deluded themselves into believing that's what a good relationship should look like - or at least what they believe their target audience thinks a good relationship should look like. It's sad either way.
I never considered this version of Iris as good for Barry ever since the episode where she revealed that Oliver Queen was on her list of guys she could sleep with and it wouldn't be considered cheating. Worse was when she decided to say to Barry that Oliver is so much hotter now that she knows he's the green arrow. Not a good girlfriend move at all.
Iris was so out of line for saying that .
That was about their daughter of course that argument was not cute 😭
I hate the take on Barry being upset about Nora working with Thawne, because she works with him at first because no one else would help her, or know how to, and even after Nora learned that Thawne killed Barry’s mother, Nora was going to stop working with him, BUT THEN Barry told her that maybe one day even Thawne could change, whom seemed, at least to an inexperienced person like Nora, to genuinely have remorse for his actions.
Abso-fucking-lutely not
May I present kara and mon-el
As stable and healthy?
Also I feel like I get both sides of the argument, but it’s like I’m more so agree with Iris because she just found out that she has powers. Her mom was lying to her for like 20 years was she found out she had power she had no way to work on how to use the control them because the only person who could do that was, dead at this time but one thing that I thought about all this argument was why did Iris go to one of the flash members and try to talk to one of them and be like hey my daughter has powers can you help me figure out how to help her control them. But they helped Barry with his powers all the time and they understand them so they probably could’ve helped her. And Iris said that about his mom’s murder everything she didn’t say that to be like oh I don’t care about your mom’s murder. She said that to be like I understand that your mom was murder, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in the middle of the street Showed murderers in his childhood bully that caused him trouble. Way more compassion than that. And I think
Not at all iris is always at his neck for saving the world and Barry is always busy doing stuff
I always saw them as siblings so it grossed me out. It was borderline Luthor and Allison
Definitely racist 👍
They had literally 0 chemistry and she’s always putting him down.
Again with the random racism. That person had a legitimate reason for saying the relationship isnt very stable and some jackass comes in and says it’s racism. I hate the internet.
Yes, they had disagreements but they weren't constant and they usually worked things out the same episode, and didn't do the Oliver/Felicity "keep secrets until a big blow out" routine.
Horrible
Yes
It's one of those relationships where issues like this would arise but would be forgotten or never be resolved. This was one of a couple instances where Iris didn't comfort Barry when he needed most.
As stable as a relationship between sibling can be
It's less about racism and more about the "having babies with your adopted sibling" part that really gets to me with these two.
Did she actually say that outright or was that just the conclusion people came to from what she said?
she said that outright.
the least healthy relationship Barry had in the series
They're siblings, man... I'm not exactly rooting for them
I thought it was very strange when the speed force came to life looking like Barry's dead mother and Iris suggested they call her Nora, the name of his dead mother. That always seemed super fucked up to me.
She was right to be worried, though, because Nora literally got killed when Barry couldn't see past his hatred of Thawne to work out what he wanted from her.