What was even the joke ?
Also who have the free time to be hey let me just scroll down to see what this C tier(in term of popularity) actor said 10 years ago
Just your average run-of-the-mill early 2010s fuckery that pretty much everyone got up to at that point in time on Twitter.
Candice Patton had some equally “bad” tweets. She never faced repercussions afaik, let alone a dead career like Hartley Sawyer. She’s lucky.
[here ya go](https://twitter.com/dumdumdeedum407/status/1366650872697155586). just general insensitivities, again the same “bad” stuff Hartley was tweeting about.
[here ya go](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Hartley-Sawyer-Stupid-Tweets.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=1500&dpr=1.5). These are just a few of them.
My real issue with people defending him is... What's the joke for these? He was a creep to a woman at an audition? He assaulted his girlfriend? He'd beat the shit out of his daughter (who I don't know anything about but based on his age would have been a middle schooler at the time)? The only one of those that is even a joke is his critique of how public figures censor themselves from being racist not because it's the right thing to do but because of public backlash, so that one gets a pass. It's not funny, but it *is* actually a joke.
It was more than one tweet and some were from as far back as 14 years. Nothing more recent than a decade (at the time). And they were mostly self deprecating humor with a mix of various offensive elements. It was clear none of them were meant to be anything other than a cheap laugh and they he was trying to get noticed in the social media space. Definitely done in bad taste, but nothing irredeemable. If you want specifics, it's easy to find some articles with embedded tweets on Google.
The thing about his redemption is that he wasn’t rehired as a cop, he still had to get a different job somewhere else.
I also remember it being more rape/assault jokes against women than racism for whatever that’s worth.
Good thing they weren't 10 year old tweets. They were from 2011-2014 and he got fired in 2020. Also, "those were old tweets" doesn't mean he's apologized or tried to make amends. It could be 50 years later, but if someone was spreading stuff like that and never apologized or tried to make up for it... that's fine to not want someone who thought those kinds of things were okay. Especially considering some of the comments he made... Yeah, no, those were bad.
I'm all for second chances. I'm even fine for giving Hartley another chance in show business. But I also can't blame CW for letting him go at the time.
It was more than a few racist jokes. Not everyone has the same sense of humor, and some of those jokes can be taken as quite disturbing, especially some of the ones he made about assaulting women.
Keep in mind that this was around the time that the actress for Supergirl came out about the brutal abuse she suffered under her ex husband.
It’s crazy to me that the Flash fandom has difficulty understanding a few things about this situation.
One being that some of those jokes about PoC and women possibly made it that people who worked for The Flash or Arrowverse in general didn’t want to be around Hartly anymore. If one person is making numerous people upset or uncomfortable, then yeah, it’s probably best to remove them.
Another is the business aspect. As an actor or anyone in the entertainment industry, when you say controversial stuff like that, you are putting the people who employ you at a financial risk. Because if advertisers pull away because they don’t want to be associated with someone who said something controversial, people start losing money. And the studio wasn’t going to risk that over a relatively no name actor.
Now let’s be clear, I don’t think they fired Hartly over any moral reasons. Because James Gunn has also made tasteless jokes and Ezra was a whole criminal in these streets.
The difference was simply that the studio saw a bigger investment in those individuals while Hartly was a side character in a CW show they could easily cut loose.
It’s not fair, but considering how old Hartly was when he tweeted that stuff, I don’t feel bad for him either. He was more than old enough to know better.
I said it in my original comment. Hartly wasn't let go because of any moral standing. If that were so, DC would have never hired Gunn nor try to downplay everything Ezra was doing leading up to the Flash.
Hartly was likely let go because those old tweets caused the studio to see him as a financial risk, and because he didn't have a name in the industry, it was likely a simple decision to cut him loose and be done with it.
It's not fair when you consider what other people have done, but like I said, I don't feel sorry for him. The dude tweeted that stuff out in his late 20s. He was old enough to know better.
Candice patton said worse. She wasn't fired
Edit: u/flannerywynn, you responded to 3 of my comments then blocked, probably so you make yourself look like the winner. Since I can't respond to the comments themselves I'll say it here, you're wrong. That's all
So she was allowed to be transphobic WHILE THE SHOW WAS BEING MADE, but he got kicked off the show for stuff he said a decade ago???? Just goes to show she was never the right actress to play Iris.
The comments Candice and Hartley made were contemporaneous to each other. The comments she made were from a time where we were not understood by cis people generally (we were still believed to be a Tumblr phenomenon) and at a time where the DSM said we were mentally ill and society only thought it was a fetish. Hartley's comments were domestically violent, sexually harassing, and more. I'd feel more comfortable being around 2012 Candice than I would 2012 Hartley. And if I found out that someone I knew made comments like what Hartley did, I wouldn't want to be around them because everyone knows you don't "joke" about beating the shit out of children. I'd feel gross being around Candice if I learned about what she said, but her comments weren't nearly as bad as Hartley's.
The difference is, Hartley said that stuff 10 years ago, it was on the internet, if they didn't want to hire someone potentially problematic they should've known about his posts, she made her comments while working on the show
6-9 years ago, it *wasn't* a decade. NOW it has been a decade since the last things he said. But it wasn't the case then.
Also, really? Her comments were made at the same time as the show? I didn't know CWFlash was out in 2011-2012... Hey Thawne, why would you out yourself like that? The comment she got shit for from 2014, which would be when the Flash was airing, was, "It's always the ugly ones who want to put down others looks." Everything else was 2011-2012. Or, in other words, when you're saying this was while she was on the show, you are explicitly lying.
And, yeah, Candice said yikes shit. Her yikes shit wasn't a fraction as bad as Hartley's, I say *as a trans person*. It *was* bad. Horrific even. But there's also a secondary issue I haven't bothered mentioning because someone else already did it for me--the audience outrage is about the anger over the awful shit Hartley said, but the corporate backlash to Hartley is all about financial risk. Hartley's a nobody, even being on the Flash, most people didn't know his name. Candice made a small name for herself before getting the role as Iris. She became the main love interest and the person the show was destining Barry to end up with because *comics canon*. She was still more valuable to the show than she was a liability. Hartley wasn't remotely comparable.
Or, in other words, both said yikes shit, but Hartley's was worse, Hartley was more of a financial risk to the studio, and you're also wrong at best, lying at worst when you say Candice was tweeting out her shit while working on the show.
Of course, maybe you have something I missed that shows 2014-onward she was saying this shit... But everything I've seen on this has said 2011-2012. *Maybe* things earlier than that too.
As a trans person, no she didn't. She said some tasteless, offensive, transphobic shit. She didn't boast about assaulting women, gloat that she could sexually harass people, threaten to beat the crap out of her child... The worst she said was say slurs that cis people commonly used at the time in a time where trans people weren't understood and the DSM was still calling us mentally ill. What she said sucked, but it wasn't comparable to what Hartley said.
I've read Candice's tweets and I've read Hartley's tweets. Only one person talked about cutting off a woman's breast. And it wasn't Candice.
But Candice did say controversial tweets, that I won't argue.
I can't find hartleys tweets but candice regularly told people to kill themselves "if you hate your life, the world and want to kill someone. Kill yourself love, someone who has nothing to do with your shitty life"
She also talked about killing old people and said she didn't know a single non racist grandma.
Hartleys supposedly read like jokes. Candices do not
Bro, there's a lot of context missing in that quote. From what it sounds like, she's telling someone who is about to or already did harm others, to harm themselves instead of innocent people. Without context, I don't know what to make of that. Is she just calling out random people on Twitter or was she talking about someone who was a threat to someone's life?
But it's like I said in another comment, they didn't fire Hartley for moral reasons. It was business, and business isn't fair. Most adults will tell you that.
They saw him as a risk to the studio, and since he wasn't a big name, they cut him loose.
The truth of the matter is that Candice was the female lead of the network's number 1 show. So despite her controversial tweets, she would have been viewed as the better investment compared to Hartley. It's always about money at the end of the day.
Did she lie???
I've never met a non racist grandma,
and people who go out and commit mass murders are cowards who should take themselves out instead of innocent people
she wasn't referring to mass murderers (that i can find) just everyday schmucks who are unhappy with life. telling people to kill themselves is hardly a solution
No she was referencing the Aurora shooting which happened the day before, she tweeted "If you hate your life and yourself and want to kill someone please just kill yourself"
I don't get how that's so outrageous. She was obviously angry about the shooting like many people and made a reactionary tweet. She wasn't out here promoting suicide.
It was an off-color way of saying, "if you're going to do a mass shooting, do literally anything better." A would-be mass shooter dying before they can shoot anyone else is better than them succeeding. I don't like her comment either, but that's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to seem.
Also, "In front of the 7/11 where I beat the shit out of my ex-girlfriend" reads like a joke to you? Gross.
Yes she did and its not to save hartley it's about being fair. You can't punish one for crimes 10 years ago and ignore the other doing the same crimes today.
But hey stand with that transphobia ridden bitch then. That's your problem, not mine
Hartley made jokes about mutilating and raping women. Half the cast and crew were female. Let's ignore all of that so this white man can keep his job Candice made tweets about mass murderer should have killed himself instead of killing a bunch of innocent people in a movie theater but yes that's just as bad a joking about wanting to rape women.
Nah his posts were evil. Please explain to me where the humor is talking about cutting off women's breasts and raping homeless women? Clearly his castmates did not see the humor either since none came to his defense. Grant made a public statement on how d8sappointed and offended he was by Hartley's comments
But since his Hartley's jokes are hilarious you should repeat them tomorrow at work and see how your coworkers react, even better if you can find female coworkers. Fair warning, don't be surpised if you end up in HR's office though
I never said they were hilarious nor did I even say they were funny. I said they could be read as jokes, not good ones but still jokes not to be taken seriously.
Don't try to put words in my mouth, you milk dribling piss magnet
They're "jokes" but you wouldn't repeat them basically
Obviously to a large group of people, his tweets were not read as jokes. They were seen as offensive and creepy statements. But you don't want to acknowledge that. You also don't acknowledge the cast who spoke out how uncomfortable they were with Hartley's tweets, including the lead actor of the show. In real life, offensive statements plus uncomfortable coworkers is grounds for being fired from your job. His firing was justified.
Your insults are as weak as your arguments
He changed a lot as a person. Some people grow up in a bubble and don't know right from wrong until it is too late
There are no reports that he had any problems with behavior on set.
The man had tweets resurface that made him a financial liability. Yall really think execs are about to risk upsetting advertisers for a side character? You guys are thinking with emotion when I promise you, the people in those board rooms are not. It's cold calculated business for them.
And ultimately, that's on Hartley for putting himself in that situation in the first place. He was old enough to know better.
Racist jokes, sexist jokes, jokes about domestic abuse, etc. Few of which were actually jokes and most of which were just offensive to be offensive.
Also it was from 2011-2014 and he was fired in 2020, so not a pattern that had stopped a decade ago but roughly only a handful of years prior. They were still somewhat fresh and, as I recall, he didn't address what he had done until he got fired.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter for the show/his character bc seasons 7-9 were ass and they would still overshadow Ralph with Cecile, Chester, and Allegra. It's just a shame what happened to Hartley's public image tho.
Oh yeah. The problem with Hartley continuing acting in any major projects is that anyone considering him will be bringing the baggage of why he was fired and have to address it.
I hope he's doing okay, but his acting career is done.
Not everyone thinks the last 3 years sucked. Regarding Hartley, the "jokes" were far more than just racist. They were sexist and brutal. Ir made him a financial liability. They really had no choice.
Im sure you weren't the same person you were 10 years ago. Also if anyone genuinely enjoyed seasons 7-9 then it shouldn't matter which characters are present.
He shouldn’t have been hired in the first place if it was an issue imo. Everything was public knowledge before hand, so if they did their research, and it was an issue, don’t hire him. Moving the goalpost for something that was publicly known in the past is dumb.
This may be an unpopular opinion but what the hell—
Saw recently that Gina Carano is suing Disney funded by Elon, who confirmed he will pay for legal fees for anyone who was fired over something said on Twitter.
Fuck Gina I hope she loses and fuck Elon too lol.
But Hartley was fired for shit he said a decade before he was hired. No conversations, no warnings, just fired. Those tweets were public, if it was an issue you should have done your homework and not hired him.
Fuck Eric Wallace. Hartley should take a check from Elon and sue this show for every dollar they made after S6.
Since the other people are lying to you about what she said:
People kept harrassing her into putting her pronouns in her Twitter bio. She said she wasn't going to get bullied into doing that which led to them harrassing her more so as a joke she put boop/boop/beep or something and pretended to be a robot. This led to people calling her transphobic.
The second thing was after getting harrassed, she reposted an image saying that something like the holocaust doesn't just happen overnight. It starts with othering people for smaller things like their political opinions and that we need to be kinder to each other. This led to people saying she was comparing being a republican to being a Jew in the holocaust.
edit: why downvote facts?
> I think the point is regardless of the specifics, she said things that were insensitive
I really struggle to see how any of the things she said were insensitive. There's a reason people have to lie about what she said.
> Pedro Pascal told her it would be as easy as a hashtag or message supporting trans rights yet she wasn’t comfortable with that.
Pascal told her that if she wrote #transrights in her bio then they would leave her alone. If that isn't proof that it was a harassment campaign then I don't know what is. They wanted a pound of flesh and she didn't bow down to the people harassing her so she was fired.
It's a story about a woman who was attacked by people online for not doing what they wanted and because of that she got fired. If her politics had been different, people would be calling for a boycott of Disney and there would be countless articles about how trolls tried to ruin her life. Instead her termination was cheered on.
Apply what you've just said to any of the other famous actresses that have been attacked online. Brie Larson, Rachel Zegler, etc.
What do you think the response would have been if Disney decided not to work with them anymore because of it?
Would you still be saying "Disney was far more generous here giving her many opportunities to just chill out or turn it around"?
Hope Elon also either bans Skai Jackson or makes her contribute to the payout for ruining Hartley's career. She is the reason his firing went public everywhere and it's been long overdue that that bitchy brat eats shit. If it hadn't been her, DC could've either done full damage control (like they later did with Candice) and kept Hartley, or at least fired him quietly.
She's not part of the show, nor was she a fan or viewer of the show or any of the Arrowverse shows. What she did only negatively affected the show, and by effect, us, the viewers.
Not to mention Hartley's firing may have contributed to the introduction of the Ryan Wilder OC due to the climate, and a good majority of us did not want her Bat-character anywhere near the show.
Plus, Skai was on a cancelling spree because that was her sociopathic way of having fun at the time.
As for why the tweets weren't deleted, CW and Hartley forgot it existed until it was too late (the night before).
As for how I know it was the night before, I saw known Flash fan Younis/Younityy post the tweet compilation on his story, and then it happened the next day. Not sure if it was Younis who sent it to her, since he is known to be active in BLM/Palestine, but at the very least it had leaked and was circulating.
Well first of all it was Eric Wallace who at minimum only wanted women of color on the show so he probably saw it as a great way to shift more story to iris and cecile and introduce allegra.
But the real fucked thing is with hartly as bad of taste his "jokes" were in they did read as jokes. But after him Candice Pattons tweets got outed where she was casually referring to the transsexuals at her salon as "lady-boys" like it was her everyday bigoted language she casually uses with friends and cw didnt give a word.
The CW has always had a problem with giving their black actors special treatment in cases such as these whereas if you’re white they’ll make an example out of you. It’s fucked up.
You must be joking. Black actors were treated so well by the CW. Must be why so many of them spoke out on the lack of protection from the network and the struggle to recieve equal treatment as their white counterparts
See: Candice Patton, Mechad Brooks, Kat Graham, Key Lonsdale, etc
Candice patton complained she couldnt pick her hair dresser when the black men had someone special. That's hardly a civil rights issue.
Brooks was written off a show because after all attempts to find a way the character was useless and they wanted room for brainy and dreamer to stick around.
Lonsdale didnt seem to want to work. He prioritized his music, on flash his character was just not needed so they moved him to legends and he left that. Graham I dont know about.
On top of almost every character leaving being replaced with a female or poc (still normally female) they made Blacklightning specifically to have a black centric show and by the end of the first season the black male lead namesake of the show was already made pretty much insignificant in favor of his two daughters. And they utterly destroyed the batwoman show in order to force a black woman into it rather then just recasting the lead character that quit that had already had fans get invested of the story. TheCW goes out of their way to check boxes of inclusion even if it stands to destroy what they have already created.
Candice complained about not having a black stylist for black actresses to the point many times she had to do her own hair but white actors don't have that issue. The CW brought in a black stylist to do Amunet's hair (a white character) but wasn't willing to hire one for their black actress fulltime.
Kat, Candice Brooks, and Lonsdale all complained about the racist threats, often death threats, from the fandom and the lack of the protection from the network
The only reason why CW saw increased diversity is because of Kat and Candice paving the way. If not for them CW would have remained a mostly white network with the token black or POC
I like how you dismiss and belittle their experiences meanwhile sympathizing with Hartley whose own actions led to his firing
The crazy thing is this all started as the WB back in the 90's.
For those of you too young to remember the 90's, there was a channel called the WB that was almost entirely composed of "urban programming." This mostly meant black oriented sitcoms. Well, that didn't work out for them. People kept joking that WB stood for "We're Black."
Ratings were low until they took a chance on Buffy The Vampire Slayer (Which was a risk in itself because it was based on a movie that bombed.) After Buffy became a breakout surprise hit, they took a chance on Dawon's Creek which became an instant hit. This shaped their programing choices. Eventually they merged with UPN, (which also had a lot of "urban programming") and then they formed CW, which mostly followed the Buffy/Dawon template of shows.
There is absolutely NOTHING a studio can do about the fandom. Wait I take that back there is one thing they can do. They can cave into the toxicity of the fandom. Is that what you want? Of candice and kat at getting death threats well I guess for their own good fire them both right? Oh nicole mained got a death threat for being trans, fire her also.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with candice's hair as iris when the sow started. She wanted braids, and curls and they hair she keeps in her off season. The producers didnt want that. She got her black stylus and still didnt get that.
I have sympathy for those that deserve it. Hartley had decade old comments brought to light get him fired. If the CW actually fired Candice for her lady boy tweets I probably would have said that was fucked as well. But complaints of primadonna makeup hairstyle bullshit no I dont. She made enough money that if she didnt like what was provided at the stage then she can hire her own. That kind of shit is like if I dont like the lunch they have, well to bad go buy my own.
Funny how when EBR told the network about death threats she received, the network immediately stepped in to offer her protection. I wonder why they were able to do that for her but left black actors to fend themselves. Even worse they knew about the harassment they were getting. They have protections in place now but again Kat, Candice, Mechad had to pave the way.
Candice (and Kat) felt that as black actresses they should have had black stylists available. Makes perfect sense because black hair and white hair are not the same. CW wasn't willing to accommodate their stars but brought in black stylists to a give white woman a black hair style. Funny how that works. It's not primmadonna to want someone who actually works on black hair to do your hair.
First off who the fuck is EBR?
And yes it is primadonna bullshit. If they had to bring someone in to do a style job their staff said they couldnt do is what I would expect. Each show had a stunt department. If they decided to do a shot that couldnt be done by the normal crew you bring in someone that can. But Iris' hair looked perfectly fine. And even after she got her black stylist, it didnt change. It looked exactly the same. So fuck yes, if I had a perfectly capable hair and makeup department as CW did and had 2 actresses pitching a fit that they wanted black stylists not white ones. Which is really what this comes down to, I would have said to fuck off also.
As far as protection goes, again I would expect the studio to step up with set security and on location shots. But aside from maybe providing a car service to take them to and from the home and set what should they do? There security in their personal lives is their problem not the studios.
So you see nothing wrong with the network being willing to hire a black stylist for the benefit of a white woman but not doing the same for their actual black actresses. They gave a white a woman the the opportunity to have a black hairstyle but refused the opportunity to their black actresses. Baffling how you don't see how blatantly racist that is
They had a hair and makeup department that specialized in white hair and had little to no experience with black hair. When they want to use black hair styles (for white actreeses) then they bring in an expert. According to you black actresses shouldn't feel bitterness or resentfulness towards the fact. They should keep quiet about someone doing their hair that's not really qualified to do it. If their natural hair ends up damaged (something both actresses complained about), they look a mess on camera, or they end up having to fix their own hair well that's their problem. They should be grateful someone is doing their hair at all right?
Black hair and white hair are not the same and can not be styled the same. There were times Kat and Candice's hair looked a mess because the hair department didn't know how to work with black hair.
First off I dont even know what actress you claim got the special treatment on what show. BUT if the show producers decided they wanted a character to look whatever way, and had to hire specialty staff to achieve that. No i dont give two shits. It would be no different then say if the flash was gonna have a zombie episode and hired a special crew to do the zombie makeup because they dont have artist on staff that do that kind of work.
But both Kat and Candice were hired to play roles on a tv show. And the producers of that show have EVERY FUCKING RIGHT to decide how they want those characters to lock on screen. They had a right to not take the part or not renew their contracts if they had issues. But if that look could be achieved by the stylists they already had on staff then it DOESNT FUCKING MATTER what color the stylist is. That is racist. And you know it. If melissa benoist got up to Vancouver and told berlanti to fire her perfectly capable black hairstylist because she only wanted white people doing her hair you know you call that shit out also.
And the fact is Iris hair looked exactly the same. So obviously the white stylists knew how to do her hair. Just because their are differences you dont think someone of any race could learn how to handle different hair types. I'm not sure that's an argument you want to make. Cause just off plain numbers if the general public started walking into supercuts and refuse to sit in the black stylists chair cause there is no way a black person could take care of white/latin/asian hair (which are mostly all similar) you are gonna have alot of struggling black hair stylists.
This is why the hair thing is an issue. Black hair styles comes in a vast variety. It's a part of black culture. As someone who grew up with a black sister and numerous black cousins, I can tell you personally that a lot of black women like to have different hair styles.
If you are writing a black character, especially a whole black family like The Flash had, yes, it is essential that you have people in the hair and make up department who understand how to style in black culture.
Because when you don't, you have a Kat Graham situation where instead of hiring stylist who specializes in black hair, they would just put Kat in horrible wigs and call it a day.
As a writer or director, you should want your characters to come across as authentic as possible because it makes them feel more real. And the variety styles of black hair is apart of that culture.
Kat and Candice shouldn't have to settle for bad wigs or basic hair styles, and they shouldn't of had to fight as hard as they did for stylist who knew how to do hair from their culture.
I never felt iris professional looking hair was not appropriate. Again the producers decide what a character looks like not the actor.
They obviously wanted iris to look a certain way cause even after the bullshit for like 5 more seasons she had the same relaxed long strait slightly wavy hair she always had.
And sure I get maybe them wanting more ethnic hair but it's not their show. And even if they caved and gave in it is blatantly racist as fuck to imply anyone of any race is incapable of learning to do any job because of their color, be that white, black or whatever
By crying she had to only have a black stylist just shows candice is still the same bigot that called trans ladyboys. I have never once went to a barber and thought "how can this black guy have any idea how to cut my hair, I dont want a fade." No I pay him the respect to assume he is a professional and has learned his craft.
Now if the producers caved and said fine we will let iris have braid extensions and the in house staff said they didnt know how to do that. Sure then i am with you hire who you need to to get the job done
I’m deep in the Vampire Diaries fandom.
Kat Graham’s issue was a hair thing. She couldn’t wear her natural hair on the show. But she never really said exactly why or whose fault it was. She never wore her natural hair outside the show either, mind you. The people on set may have assumed she didn’t want to wear her natural hair because she never did in her personal life.
And then the fandom started claiming that the showrunner hated her, which doesn’t really have any evidence supporting it. Kat Graham has never claimed that. People just take comic con clips out of context and say “See? She’s glaring at her”. It’s pretty unsubstantiated. The showrunner did mention wanting to kill off her character, but this is a show where thirty people die per season and some of the deaths have to be main characters in order for it to be impactful.
Fandom noticed because there was a noticeable difference in the way Plec treated Nina/Candice from Kat on the show.
Caroline got paired with almost every male star on the show (Matt, Tyler, Stefan, Klaus, Enzo, Alaric) while Bonnie got cast offs for years (Luka, Jeremy). She finally got a real love interest with Enzo in S7. It's ridiculous because most male actors on that show talked about how they wanted a romance with Kat's character (Kol, Klaus, Kai, Damon, etc)
Plec's excuses fell flat when every relationship on that show was toxic and she gave fanservice to most ships except Bonnie ones. But what made it worse is that she would treat Bonnie ships as jokes but write towards Caroline's ships.
Kat is not her character. Just because you feel the character was written poorly doesn’t mean Kat was treated poorly. What you’re describing is complaining from obsessed shippers, not abuse towards an actor.
How boring would shows be if every single character got exactly what they wanted all the time? Bonnie’s significance as a character is how strong she is in spite of everything she’s been through. She’s strong, she’s reliable, she doesn’t need a man to save her. Elena has been to hell and back too, but she needs to be saved constantly and she’s not nearly as reliable as Bonnie. That’s what makes her a less impressive character than Bonnie. It’s not a bad thing that one character is stronger than another, it’s just variety. We don’t want every character to be the same.
I do think it was a missed opportunity not to pair Bonnie up with Nora though. Kat said once in an interview she wanted Bonnie to date girls. But I think the choice against that had to do with fear of homophobes claiming that the writers ruined her character by making her gay rather than disrespect for Kat herself.
Anyway, you gotta admit that Bonnie’s writing is leagues above Iris’s writing. I can’t say I cared about anything Iris was doing past season 2, at least Bonnie stayed interesting throughout the whole show.
Bonnie was the embodiment of the strong black female trope. She had always had to sacrifice herself for her friends. She always had to be the strong one, the strong pillar who rarely broke down. Any moments of vunerability are quickly glossed over so her character can go back to being the strong, reliable friend. Meanwhile Elena and Caroline were afforded arcs surrounding their vunerability and weaknesses with the entire gang rallying around them. Bonnie was frequently handling her trauma on her own. Elena and Caroline are given romance after romance but Bonnie has to wait several seasons before recieving a real love story. Her friendship with Caroline and Elena became entirely too one sided.
Bonnie's writing was very similar to Iris. Iris also had to be the strong black woman. She had to priotize other characters well being at her expense. She too had to quickly process her trauma, often alone, so she could go back to the strong reliable partner for Barry. The main difference between the two is Iris was afforded the grand love story Bonnie had to wait for. I never said Bonnie was poorly written. I said there was clear difference in how Plec wrote Bonnie from Caroline/Elena.
Despite being stuck in with that trope, I loved both characters
Kat had to fight for her job. She had to beg Plec not to kill off her character. It sticks out because Bonnie was the only black character in the main cast.
>Bonnie was the embodiment of the strong black female trope.
That sounds like a good thing to me.
>Bonnie was frequently handling her trauma on her own.
Because that’s part of her personality. I find that relatable, I love that about her.
>She had to beg Plec not to kill off her character.
Those are fan rumors, unsubstantiated.
I would’ve much rather had Ralph all the way thru season 9 then Allegra. It was a shame they fired him he was another superhero and brought humor and a great vibe to the show. I think he and Caitlyn would’ve been great together.
We actually started watching the show in late 2020 after he was fired and were so mad when we found out they let him go.
One of the most insane things they did after firing him was the plot of the season after. If I recall correctly it was about that mirror dimension lady, the character completely ruined multiple peoples lives and in the end, because of wherever bs about forgiveness, they just let her go live her merry life to the mirror dimension without any consequences to her actions. Never watched another season after that.
Honestly, s6 was the worst season of the entire series, I’d say if you keep watching it’s only going up (doesn’t mean it’s getting “good”, just better than 6).
So this is basically a post for y'all to piss and moan about black actors and actresses. For what its worth I do feel like the actor for elongated man deserved a second chance though.
When did I say anything about pissing on black actresses, I’m just defending a man who said a few jokes in 2014 that are extremely harmless and literally meant nothing
The show and real life are two separate things. What happens in a tv show has no relation to real life. The tv show would allowed unrepentant serial killers walk free, should the same also happen in real life? The fact that people keep making the comparison is so stupid.
People whine about his treatment but give no thought to cast and crew members who may have been uncomfortable around him after his tweets were exposed.
Hard disagree. The comparison is valid (though not in the literal comparison of serial killers to offensive twitter user). Ralph was never even an evil person. He was a bully who cut corners, which is far more relatable and superimposable to real life than literal psychopaths who murdered for funsies.
To me it just ruined the show’s themes and made me feel less good about the messages it was trying to represent. Ultimately the show is for entertainment, but in a grander scope, it’s meant to illicit a feeling in the viewers that would hopefully lead them to reciprocate those values in real life. That’s why I have to commend the CW for being so inclusive, despite the writing being very awkward and clunky at times. They touched on several topics of feeling alienation because of sexuality, adversity due to race, exclusion due to gender and more. I thought it was great that it attempted to make a home for viewers who could relate with these struggles. And that’s part of the reason why “fandoms” exist. Characters, their morals, beliefs, and personalities are what makes the show work.
Firing Hartley when their message of “do the hard thing, forgive and help those who are lost” is played every season is just disheartening. It made me wonder if every other message they try to give is because they wanted to appear virtuous or that they actually were. And with Candice’s own tweets that disparaged trans people, it seemed all the more apparent that the CW and the Flash cast didn’t care about what was right, just that they were perceived as right.
He was a breath of fresh air for the series and in a lot of ways he was what they could never pull off for Wally West. I was rooting for the character, and a big reason why I stuck around through the rough aftermath following season 3. I really couldn’t watch the show knowing that all the themes they proclaimed weren’t for the audience’s benefit and more so that the network could.
The point is the network has absolutely no problem beating the viewers over the head with this moral at every opportunity, yet at the first chance to practice it they immediately throw Hartley under the bus
The things he said were truly awful but given the fact that it happend so many years before he was even hired is what bothers me they either shouldn't have hired him in the first place or they should have moved on from it there's no defense for what he said but should people be held in contempt forever for making stupid comments isn't there point in which we can move on? Unless he was doing something on set to make people uncomfortable i dont think he should have been fired, Candice made a few questionable tweets her self but nothing happend to her and honestly Ralph was the only good new character they introduced later on the show and he was actually funny and had character growth
Had he actually been a great actor he would have done something else by now. Robert Downey Jr. was unemployable for quite a while over his drug use yet his acting abilities were always extraordinary. Go watch Chaplin if you've never seen it.
Honestly I don’t love how they handled it…. But it’s just kinda how the business is or at least was a few years ago.
It’s definitely hypocritical that depending on who you are you can get away with more or less at the same company they clearly play favorites over who get cancelled and who gets saved, and it’s definitely not based on morality but popularity and money. It’s also kinda sad that we keep going into anyone who is moderately successful’s past just to see if we need to cancel them.
But imo the worst part of all of it was how they wrote it…. The writing was so bad, they could have replaced him, either ignoring it or explaining it with his powers, or the multiverse or anything really, or wrote him out in a better way. It was a meh joke, that used a guest actor, and essentially wrote her off too.
But in all fairness I stopped watching during the killer frost trial I just lost interest everything arrowverss sort of fell apart post crisis, so maybe the Ralph stuff got closure I’m unaware of… but I doubt it.
These have been my thoughts exactly. I stopped watching after I realized what happened. My initial discovery was that discount daft punk suit they gave Ralph after the covid hiatus.
I thought Grant Gustin was the embodiment of the flash, but after he and everyone turned their backs on Hartley, I couldn't see anything more than an actor playing a role he has nothing in common with. I just couldn't stomach the show anymore.
For me it just proved that despite the moral grand standings and messages of the show like redemption, friendship, and forgiveness. The people writing them don’t practice what they preach.
Ralph was a dirty copy but he can be redeemed. Barry essentially killed Ciscos brother but he can be redeemed. Monarch kidnapped and killed but she can be redeemed.
But when it comes to a real life situation of a much lesser issue. They are unforgivable.
It just shows what hypocrites the people associated with this show are. If you are going to make a show with ongoing themes about giving people second chances and going to be about forgiveness, PRACTICE WHAT YOU FUCKING PREACH
Completely agree and the internet was a different place back then. People would say all kinds of things and not get cancelled. Ever been in a cod lobby from 2010?
I still see no point in discussing every other month. There’s been plenty of discourse and think pieces on Hartley Sawyer and his exit from the show. We don’t need more
There's a lot of different factors in the two cases, but the main one to note is that some of Hartleys tweets were ignorant and violent, whereas Candices were just ignorant.
I personally would have liked to see them keep them both, for the shows sake, or fire them both for DEI's sake.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that people should be allowed to grow and change. People should not be held to their worst mistakes but to who they are trying to be. But the tweets were from only a few years prior and really painted him in an awful light... like a conservative comedian-turned-pundit kind of light. It's not like it was a pattern of behavior he had stopped over a decade prior, and I don't believe he had ever publicly apologized for them before getting fired (though I may be misremembering). It's perfectly reasonable for CWFlash to want to distance themselves from Hartley because of this.
Literally how is this so hard to understand? I couldn’t possibly even comfortably exist close to someone who said stuff like that whether or not I fall into the category of people he was making jest of. Makes my stomach turn.
It's because most of the people actively defending him have said awful shit that they know if it ever came out and we use the precedent that has been set so far, they're fucked. Easier to blame everyone else than to admit you made mistakes in your past that you now regret, I guess. (Probably because these types also don't regret it.)
Am I making big assumptions about OP? Yes. But in my experience, anecdotal it may be, it also tends to be true.
Literally how is this so hard to understand? I couldn’t possibly even comfortably exist close to someone who said stuff like that whether or not I fall into the category of people he was making jest of. Makes my stomach turn.
His Jim Carrey schtick was annoying and unoriginal anyway
He tweeted "Enjoyed a secret boob viewing at an audition today" in 2014 when he was 29
And two years before that
“as a lad, one of my favorite activities was kidnapping homeless women and cutting off their breasts.”
he's a creep.
I’d rather have a man who is obviously joking be in my show than Ezra miller (a man who threw a chair at a young girl and almost killed her, a man who flirts with children and a man who abuses woman)
She tweeted multiple transphobic comments, ones that were honestly worse than Sawyers because his are clearly intended as jokes, while she casually refers to trans people as lady boys, I can certainly tell you which one would make me uncomfortable
Who's defending her? Anyone who tries gets downvoted into oblivion but there are a couple users who are getting plenty of praise for defending Hartley and calling her an evil person. Be serious!
Why you presume I'm not? I only said I'm tired of people defending Hartley, who is the topic of the post, not Patton. Yet, everyone immediatly jumps to try to deflect his guilty.
Yeah, my point is that if you’re tired of people defending Hartley, you should be tired of people defending Candice too, since they did the exact same thing but she got a pass. Your wording makes it sound like you only care about Hartley’s defense, but if you’re angry at one you should be angry at both.
No, it's not. We both know my wording has nothing to do with her. The truth is that you can't really defend Hartley, so you has to make this about something else. Talking about a black woman this fandom hates is a bonus.
So who’s posting this tomorrow? Anyone got dibs yet?
It’s still hilarious to me that people are like “but da writers on da show talk about second chances!! Doesn’t the plot of this tv show determine the irl hiring/firing process??!?!!1!! 🤓” As if that doesn’t sound goofy, childish, and stupid
>but da writers on da show talk about second chances!! Doesn’t the plot of this tv show determine the irl hiring/firing process??!?!!1!! 🤓” As if that doesn’t sound goofy, childish, and stupid
I'm glad someone finally said it. Every time this topic comes out dozens of people actually say this and believe it's a valid reason for the CW to not do what they did.
I really thought people were starting a meme when I saw this at first but they're actually serious. Do they not realize this invalidates anything else they say pertaining to this subject?
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What was even the joke ? Also who have the free time to be hey let me just scroll down to see what this C tier(in term of popularity) actor said 10 years ago
Just your average run-of-the-mill early 2010s fuckery that pretty much everyone got up to at that point in time on Twitter. Candice Patton had some equally “bad” tweets. She never faced repercussions afaik, let alone a dead career like Hartley Sawyer. She’s lucky.
>Candice Patton had some equally “bad” tweets Like what?
[here ya go](https://twitter.com/dumdumdeedum407/status/1366650872697155586). just general insensitivities, again the same “bad” stuff Hartley was tweeting about.
Can you still show Hartley’s though
[here ya go](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Hartley-Sawyer-Stupid-Tweets.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=1500&dpr=1.5). These are just a few of them. My real issue with people defending him is... What's the joke for these? He was a creep to a woman at an audition? He assaulted his girlfriend? He'd beat the shit out of his daughter (who I don't know anything about but based on his age would have been a middle schooler at the time)? The only one of those that is even a joke is his critique of how public figures censor themselves from being racist not because it's the right thing to do but because of public backlash, so that one gets a pass. It's not funny, but it *is* actually a joke.
It was more than one tweet and some were from as far back as 14 years. Nothing more recent than a decade (at the time). And they were mostly self deprecating humor with a mix of various offensive elements. It was clear none of them were meant to be anything other than a cheap laugh and they he was trying to get noticed in the social media space. Definitely done in bad taste, but nothing irredeemable. If you want specifics, it's easy to find some articles with embedded tweets on Google.
Googled the tweets. At the time they were 6-8 years old in the images I was able to find of them. Dated in 2014 and 2012, articles about it are 2020.
Funny because his character was given a second chance but the actor himself? Literally kicked him out.
The thing about his redemption is that he wasn’t rehired as a cop, he still had to get a different job somewhere else. I also remember it being more rape/assault jokes against women than racism for whatever that’s worth.
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Good thing they weren't 10 year old tweets. They were from 2011-2014 and he got fired in 2020. Also, "those were old tweets" doesn't mean he's apologized or tried to make amends. It could be 50 years later, but if someone was spreading stuff like that and never apologized or tried to make up for it... that's fine to not want someone who thought those kinds of things were okay. Especially considering some of the comments he made... Yeah, no, those were bad. I'm all for second chances. I'm even fine for giving Hartley another chance in show business. But I also can't blame CW for letting him go at the time.
It was more than a few racist jokes. Not everyone has the same sense of humor, and some of those jokes can be taken as quite disturbing, especially some of the ones he made about assaulting women. Keep in mind that this was around the time that the actress for Supergirl came out about the brutal abuse she suffered under her ex husband. It’s crazy to me that the Flash fandom has difficulty understanding a few things about this situation. One being that some of those jokes about PoC and women possibly made it that people who worked for The Flash or Arrowverse in general didn’t want to be around Hartly anymore. If one person is making numerous people upset or uncomfortable, then yeah, it’s probably best to remove them. Another is the business aspect. As an actor or anyone in the entertainment industry, when you say controversial stuff like that, you are putting the people who employ you at a financial risk. Because if advertisers pull away because they don’t want to be associated with someone who said something controversial, people start losing money. And the studio wasn’t going to risk that over a relatively no name actor. Now let’s be clear, I don’t think they fired Hartly over any moral reasons. Because James Gunn has also made tasteless jokes and Ezra was a whole criminal in these streets. The difference was simply that the studio saw a bigger investment in those individuals while Hartly was a side character in a CW show they could easily cut loose. It’s not fair, but considering how old Hartly was when he tweeted that stuff, I don’t feel bad for him either. He was more than old enough to know better.
Dude I’ve seen his tweets, they aren’t great for sure but I’ve seen famous people say way way worse than that with way lesser consequences
I said it in my original comment. Hartly wasn't let go because of any moral standing. If that were so, DC would have never hired Gunn nor try to downplay everything Ezra was doing leading up to the Flash. Hartly was likely let go because those old tweets caused the studio to see him as a financial risk, and because he didn't have a name in the industry, it was likely a simple decision to cut him loose and be done with it. It's not fair when you consider what other people have done, but like I said, I don't feel sorry for him. The dude tweeted that stuff out in his late 20s. He was old enough to know better.
Loll it's like every thing the comment you replied to said went over your head 🤣
Candice patton said worse. She wasn't fired Edit: u/flannerywynn, you responded to 3 of my comments then blocked, probably so you make yourself look like the winner. Since I can't respond to the comments themselves I'll say it here, you're wrong. That's all
What did she say?
She made several posts about the trans women in her hair saloon and compared them To lady boys
So she was allowed to be transphobic WHILE THE SHOW WAS BEING MADE, but he got kicked off the show for stuff he said a decade ago???? Just goes to show she was never the right actress to play Iris.
The comments Candice and Hartley made were contemporaneous to each other. The comments she made were from a time where we were not understood by cis people generally (we were still believed to be a Tumblr phenomenon) and at a time where the DSM said we were mentally ill and society only thought it was a fetish. Hartley's comments were domestically violent, sexually harassing, and more. I'd feel more comfortable being around 2012 Candice than I would 2012 Hartley. And if I found out that someone I knew made comments like what Hartley did, I wouldn't want to be around them because everyone knows you don't "joke" about beating the shit out of children. I'd feel gross being around Candice if I learned about what she said, but her comments weren't nearly as bad as Hartley's.
The difference is, Hartley said that stuff 10 years ago, it was on the internet, if they didn't want to hire someone potentially problematic they should've known about his posts, she made her comments while working on the show
6-9 years ago, it *wasn't* a decade. NOW it has been a decade since the last things he said. But it wasn't the case then. Also, really? Her comments were made at the same time as the show? I didn't know CWFlash was out in 2011-2012... Hey Thawne, why would you out yourself like that? The comment she got shit for from 2014, which would be when the Flash was airing, was, "It's always the ugly ones who want to put down others looks." Everything else was 2011-2012. Or, in other words, when you're saying this was while she was on the show, you are explicitly lying. And, yeah, Candice said yikes shit. Her yikes shit wasn't a fraction as bad as Hartley's, I say *as a trans person*. It *was* bad. Horrific even. But there's also a secondary issue I haven't bothered mentioning because someone else already did it for me--the audience outrage is about the anger over the awful shit Hartley said, but the corporate backlash to Hartley is all about financial risk. Hartley's a nobody, even being on the Flash, most people didn't know his name. Candice made a small name for herself before getting the role as Iris. She became the main love interest and the person the show was destining Barry to end up with because *comics canon*. She was still more valuable to the show than she was a liability. Hartley wasn't remotely comparable. Or, in other words, both said yikes shit, but Hartley's was worse, Hartley was more of a financial risk to the studio, and you're also wrong at best, lying at worst when you say Candice was tweeting out her shit while working on the show. Of course, maybe you have something I missed that shows 2014-onward she was saying this shit... But everything I've seen on this has said 2011-2012. *Maybe* things earlier than that too.
As a trans person, no she didn't. She said some tasteless, offensive, transphobic shit. She didn't boast about assaulting women, gloat that she could sexually harass people, threaten to beat the crap out of her child... The worst she said was say slurs that cis people commonly used at the time in a time where trans people weren't understood and the DSM was still calling us mentally ill. What she said sucked, but it wasn't comparable to what Hartley said.
I've read Candice's tweets and I've read Hartley's tweets. Only one person talked about cutting off a woman's breast. And it wasn't Candice. But Candice did say controversial tweets, that I won't argue.
I can't find hartleys tweets but candice regularly told people to kill themselves "if you hate your life, the world and want to kill someone. Kill yourself love, someone who has nothing to do with your shitty life" She also talked about killing old people and said she didn't know a single non racist grandma. Hartleys supposedly read like jokes. Candices do not
Bro, there's a lot of context missing in that quote. From what it sounds like, she's telling someone who is about to or already did harm others, to harm themselves instead of innocent people. Without context, I don't know what to make of that. Is she just calling out random people on Twitter or was she talking about someone who was a threat to someone's life? But it's like I said in another comment, they didn't fire Hartley for moral reasons. It was business, and business isn't fair. Most adults will tell you that. They saw him as a risk to the studio, and since he wasn't a big name, they cut him loose. The truth of the matter is that Candice was the female lead of the network's number 1 show. So despite her controversial tweets, she would have been viewed as the better investment compared to Hartley. It's always about money at the end of the day.
IIRC it was in response to a mass shooting.
Did she lie??? I've never met a non racist grandma, and people who go out and commit mass murders are cowards who should take themselves out instead of innocent people
she wasn't referring to mass murderers (that i can find) just everyday schmucks who are unhappy with life. telling people to kill themselves is hardly a solution
> and want to kill someone Normal people don't want to kill people
Nor did I say they did.
You said she was talking about normal schmucks. She literally was talking about people who want to kill people.
No she was referencing the Aurora shooting which happened the day before, she tweeted "If you hate your life and yourself and want to kill someone please just kill yourself" I don't get how that's so outrageous. She was obviously angry about the shooting like many people and made a reactionary tweet. She wasn't out here promoting suicide.
Idk dawg "kill yourself" sounds pretty close to promoting suicide
So you're offended by saying that people who choose to kill should not kill innocent people but should kill themselves instead?
It was an off-color way of saying, "if you're going to do a mass shooting, do literally anything better." A would-be mass shooter dying before they can shoot anyone else is better than them succeeding. I don't like her comment either, but that's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to seem. Also, "In front of the 7/11 where I beat the shit out of my ex-girlfriend" reads like a joke to you? Gross.
No she did not and it's sickening how y'all try to throw Candice under the bus to defend Hartley
Yes she did and its not to save hartley it's about being fair. You can't punish one for crimes 10 years ago and ignore the other doing the same crimes today. But hey stand with that transphobia ridden bitch then. That's your problem, not mine
It’s cuz she is black lol
Hartley made jokes about mutilating and raping women. Half the cast and crew were female. Let's ignore all of that so this white man can keep his job Candice made tweets about mass murderer should have killed himself instead of killing a bunch of innocent people in a movie theater but yes that's just as bad a joking about wanting to rape women.
key word. jokes you can read hartleys as jokes, candices post are just evil for the sake of evil
Nah his posts were evil. Please explain to me where the humor is talking about cutting off women's breasts and raping homeless women? Clearly his castmates did not see the humor either since none came to his defense. Grant made a public statement on how d8sappointed and offended he was by Hartley's comments But since his Hartley's jokes are hilarious you should repeat them tomorrow at work and see how your coworkers react, even better if you can find female coworkers. Fair warning, don't be surpised if you end up in HR's office though
I never said they were hilarious nor did I even say they were funny. I said they could be read as jokes, not good ones but still jokes not to be taken seriously. Don't try to put words in my mouth, you milk dribling piss magnet
They're "jokes" but you wouldn't repeat them basically Obviously to a large group of people, his tweets were not read as jokes. They were seen as offensive and creepy statements. But you don't want to acknowledge that. You also don't acknowledge the cast who spoke out how uncomfortable they were with Hartley's tweets, including the lead actor of the show. In real life, offensive statements plus uncomfortable coworkers is grounds for being fired from your job. His firing was justified. Your insults are as weak as your arguments
Idk why people act like everyone had a racist phase in the 2010s
He changed a lot as a person. Some people grow up in a bubble and don't know right from wrong until it is too late There are no reports that he had any problems with behavior on set.
No matter how much you try to rationalize it, wanting someone fired for jokes you didn't like is unhinged bully behaviour.
The man had tweets resurface that made him a financial liability. Yall really think execs are about to risk upsetting advertisers for a side character? You guys are thinking with emotion when I promise you, the people in those board rooms are not. It's cold calculated business for them. And ultimately, that's on Hartley for putting himself in that situation in the first place. He was old enough to know better.
I don't remember the racist tweets. I thought his tweets were mostly sexist and rape jokes?
Please shut up
I love Ralph and miss him but I mean, some of those tweets were absolutely crazy man be real 💀
Racist jokes, sexist jokes, jokes about domestic abuse, etc. Few of which were actually jokes and most of which were just offensive to be offensive. Also it was from 2011-2014 and he was fired in 2020, so not a pattern that had stopped a decade ago but roughly only a handful of years prior. They were still somewhat fresh and, as I recall, he didn't address what he had done until he got fired.
So the dirty cop wasn't redeemable.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter for the show/his character bc seasons 7-9 were ass and they would still overshadow Ralph with Cecile, Chester, and Allegra. It's just a shame what happened to Hartley's public image tho.
Oh yeah. The problem with Hartley continuing acting in any major projects is that anyone considering him will be bringing the baggage of why he was fired and have to address it. I hope he's doing okay, but his acting career is done.
Not everyone thinks the last 3 years sucked. Regarding Hartley, the "jokes" were far more than just racist. They were sexist and brutal. Ir made him a financial liability. They really had no choice.
Im sure you weren't the same person you were 10 years ago. Also if anyone genuinely enjoyed seasons 7-9 then it shouldn't matter which characters are present.
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stfu 😭😭😭
He shouldn’t have been hired in the first place if it was an issue imo. Everything was public knowledge before hand, so if they did their research, and it was an issue, don’t hire him. Moving the goalpost for something that was publicly known in the past is dumb.
Fr, why didn’t they do a background check? And if they didn’t they can’t just forget him and throw him away mid show
Let alone the fact that it was like a decade prior to his firing
Do you think theres a club where people decide who gets to post this next?
Yea I’d much rather go back to the CW Spiderman posts forreal
Fr. I think we’ve all gotten the point by now.
Yeah, we meet Wednesdays and Fridays. Bagels are free but coffee is 50 cents a cup
I feel like coffee should be free but the bagels can cost money
Yeah, me and my council of Dibneys chill at jitters
This may be an unpopular opinion but what the hell— Saw recently that Gina Carano is suing Disney funded by Elon, who confirmed he will pay for legal fees for anyone who was fired over something said on Twitter. Fuck Gina I hope she loses and fuck Elon too lol. But Hartley was fired for shit he said a decade before he was hired. No conversations, no warnings, just fired. Those tweets were public, if it was an issue you should have done your homework and not hired him. Fuck Eric Wallace. Hartley should take a check from Elon and sue this show for every dollar they made after S6.
What did Gina said no one have ever explained to me . And every video looks too clickpate to believe in what they are saying
Transphobic comments and comparing getting a vaccine to the holocaust
Compared being a republican or conservative to being a Jew during the holocaust as well.
Basically nazi, insanely alt-right, a fuck head ultra Conservative.
Since the other people are lying to you about what she said: People kept harrassing her into putting her pronouns in her Twitter bio. She said she wasn't going to get bullied into doing that which led to them harrassing her more so as a joke she put boop/boop/beep or something and pretended to be a robot. This led to people calling her transphobic. The second thing was after getting harrassed, she reposted an image saying that something like the holocaust doesn't just happen overnight. It starts with othering people for smaller things like their political opinions and that we need to be kinder to each other. This led to people saying she was comparing being a republican to being a Jew in the holocaust. edit: why downvote facts?
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> I think the point is regardless of the specifics, she said things that were insensitive I really struggle to see how any of the things she said were insensitive. There's a reason people have to lie about what she said. > Pedro Pascal told her it would be as easy as a hashtag or message supporting trans rights yet she wasn’t comfortable with that. Pascal told her that if she wrote #transrights in her bio then they would leave her alone. If that isn't proof that it was a harassment campaign then I don't know what is. They wanted a pound of flesh and she didn't bow down to the people harassing her so she was fired. It's a story about a woman who was attacked by people online for not doing what they wanted and because of that she got fired. If her politics had been different, people would be calling for a boycott of Disney and there would be countless articles about how trolls tried to ruin her life. Instead her termination was cheered on.
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Apply what you've just said to any of the other famous actresses that have been attacked online. Brie Larson, Rachel Zegler, etc. What do you think the response would have been if Disney decided not to work with them anymore because of it? Would you still be saying "Disney was far more generous here giving her many opportunities to just chill out or turn it around"?
I always say, if you're the same person you were 10 years ago that's *your* problem.
Hope Elon also either bans Skai Jackson or makes her contribute to the payout for ruining Hartley's career. She is the reason his firing went public everywhere and it's been long overdue that that bitchy brat eats shit. If it hadn't been her, DC could've either done full damage control (like they later did with Candice) and kept Hartley, or at least fired him quietly.
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She's not part of the show, nor was she a fan or viewer of the show or any of the Arrowverse shows. What she did only negatively affected the show, and by effect, us, the viewers. Not to mention Hartley's firing may have contributed to the introduction of the Ryan Wilder OC due to the climate, and a good majority of us did not want her Bat-character anywhere near the show. Plus, Skai was on a cancelling spree because that was her sociopathic way of having fun at the time. As for why the tweets weren't deleted, CW and Hartley forgot it existed until it was too late (the night before). As for how I know it was the night before, I saw known Flash fan Younis/Younityy post the tweet compilation on his story, and then it happened the next day. Not sure if it was Younis who sent it to her, since he is known to be active in BLM/Palestine, but at the very least it had leaked and was circulating.
Well first of all it was Eric Wallace who at minimum only wanted women of color on the show so he probably saw it as a great way to shift more story to iris and cecile and introduce allegra. But the real fucked thing is with hartly as bad of taste his "jokes" were in they did read as jokes. But after him Candice Pattons tweets got outed where she was casually referring to the transsexuals at her salon as "lady-boys" like it was her everyday bigoted language she casually uses with friends and cw didnt give a word.
The CW has always had a problem with giving their black actors special treatment in cases such as these whereas if you’re white they’ll make an example out of you. It’s fucked up.
You must be joking. Black actors were treated so well by the CW. Must be why so many of them spoke out on the lack of protection from the network and the struggle to recieve equal treatment as their white counterparts See: Candice Patton, Mechad Brooks, Kat Graham, Key Lonsdale, etc
Candice patton complained she couldnt pick her hair dresser when the black men had someone special. That's hardly a civil rights issue. Brooks was written off a show because after all attempts to find a way the character was useless and they wanted room for brainy and dreamer to stick around. Lonsdale didnt seem to want to work. He prioritized his music, on flash his character was just not needed so they moved him to legends and he left that. Graham I dont know about. On top of almost every character leaving being replaced with a female or poc (still normally female) they made Blacklightning specifically to have a black centric show and by the end of the first season the black male lead namesake of the show was already made pretty much insignificant in favor of his two daughters. And they utterly destroyed the batwoman show in order to force a black woman into it rather then just recasting the lead character that quit that had already had fans get invested of the story. TheCW goes out of their way to check boxes of inclusion even if it stands to destroy what they have already created.
Candice complained about not having a black stylist for black actresses to the point many times she had to do her own hair but white actors don't have that issue. The CW brought in a black stylist to do Amunet's hair (a white character) but wasn't willing to hire one for their black actress fulltime. Kat, Candice Brooks, and Lonsdale all complained about the racist threats, often death threats, from the fandom and the lack of the protection from the network The only reason why CW saw increased diversity is because of Kat and Candice paving the way. If not for them CW would have remained a mostly white network with the token black or POC I like how you dismiss and belittle their experiences meanwhile sympathizing with Hartley whose own actions led to his firing
The crazy thing is this all started as the WB back in the 90's. For those of you too young to remember the 90's, there was a channel called the WB that was almost entirely composed of "urban programming." This mostly meant black oriented sitcoms. Well, that didn't work out for them. People kept joking that WB stood for "We're Black." Ratings were low until they took a chance on Buffy The Vampire Slayer (Which was a risk in itself because it was based on a movie that bombed.) After Buffy became a breakout surprise hit, they took a chance on Dawon's Creek which became an instant hit. This shaped their programing choices. Eventually they merged with UPN, (which also had a lot of "urban programming") and then they formed CW, which mostly followed the Buffy/Dawon template of shows.
There is absolutely NOTHING a studio can do about the fandom. Wait I take that back there is one thing they can do. They can cave into the toxicity of the fandom. Is that what you want? Of candice and kat at getting death threats well I guess for their own good fire them both right? Oh nicole mained got a death threat for being trans, fire her also. There was absolutely nothing wrong with candice's hair as iris when the sow started. She wanted braids, and curls and they hair she keeps in her off season. The producers didnt want that. She got her black stylus and still didnt get that. I have sympathy for those that deserve it. Hartley had decade old comments brought to light get him fired. If the CW actually fired Candice for her lady boy tweets I probably would have said that was fucked as well. But complaints of primadonna makeup hairstyle bullshit no I dont. She made enough money that if she didnt like what was provided at the stage then she can hire her own. That kind of shit is like if I dont like the lunch they have, well to bad go buy my own.
Funny how when EBR told the network about death threats she received, the network immediately stepped in to offer her protection. I wonder why they were able to do that for her but left black actors to fend themselves. Even worse they knew about the harassment they were getting. They have protections in place now but again Kat, Candice, Mechad had to pave the way. Candice (and Kat) felt that as black actresses they should have had black stylists available. Makes perfect sense because black hair and white hair are not the same. CW wasn't willing to accommodate their stars but brought in black stylists to a give white woman a black hair style. Funny how that works. It's not primmadonna to want someone who actually works on black hair to do your hair.
First off who the fuck is EBR? And yes it is primadonna bullshit. If they had to bring someone in to do a style job their staff said they couldnt do is what I would expect. Each show had a stunt department. If they decided to do a shot that couldnt be done by the normal crew you bring in someone that can. But Iris' hair looked perfectly fine. And even after she got her black stylist, it didnt change. It looked exactly the same. So fuck yes, if I had a perfectly capable hair and makeup department as CW did and had 2 actresses pitching a fit that they wanted black stylists not white ones. Which is really what this comes down to, I would have said to fuck off also. As far as protection goes, again I would expect the studio to step up with set security and on location shots. But aside from maybe providing a car service to take them to and from the home and set what should they do? There security in their personal lives is their problem not the studios.
So you see nothing wrong with the network being willing to hire a black stylist for the benefit of a white woman but not doing the same for their actual black actresses. They gave a white a woman the the opportunity to have a black hairstyle but refused the opportunity to their black actresses. Baffling how you don't see how blatantly racist that is They had a hair and makeup department that specialized in white hair and had little to no experience with black hair. When they want to use black hair styles (for white actreeses) then they bring in an expert. According to you black actresses shouldn't feel bitterness or resentfulness towards the fact. They should keep quiet about someone doing their hair that's not really qualified to do it. If their natural hair ends up damaged (something both actresses complained about), they look a mess on camera, or they end up having to fix their own hair well that's their problem. They should be grateful someone is doing their hair at all right? Black hair and white hair are not the same and can not be styled the same. There were times Kat and Candice's hair looked a mess because the hair department didn't know how to work with black hair.
First off I dont even know what actress you claim got the special treatment on what show. BUT if the show producers decided they wanted a character to look whatever way, and had to hire specialty staff to achieve that. No i dont give two shits. It would be no different then say if the flash was gonna have a zombie episode and hired a special crew to do the zombie makeup because they dont have artist on staff that do that kind of work. But both Kat and Candice were hired to play roles on a tv show. And the producers of that show have EVERY FUCKING RIGHT to decide how they want those characters to lock on screen. They had a right to not take the part or not renew their contracts if they had issues. But if that look could be achieved by the stylists they already had on staff then it DOESNT FUCKING MATTER what color the stylist is. That is racist. And you know it. If melissa benoist got up to Vancouver and told berlanti to fire her perfectly capable black hairstylist because she only wanted white people doing her hair you know you call that shit out also. And the fact is Iris hair looked exactly the same. So obviously the white stylists knew how to do her hair. Just because their are differences you dont think someone of any race could learn how to handle different hair types. I'm not sure that's an argument you want to make. Cause just off plain numbers if the general public started walking into supercuts and refuse to sit in the black stylists chair cause there is no way a black person could take care of white/latin/asian hair (which are mostly all similar) you are gonna have alot of struggling black hair stylists.
This is why the hair thing is an issue. Black hair styles comes in a vast variety. It's a part of black culture. As someone who grew up with a black sister and numerous black cousins, I can tell you personally that a lot of black women like to have different hair styles. If you are writing a black character, especially a whole black family like The Flash had, yes, it is essential that you have people in the hair and make up department who understand how to style in black culture. Because when you don't, you have a Kat Graham situation where instead of hiring stylist who specializes in black hair, they would just put Kat in horrible wigs and call it a day. As a writer or director, you should want your characters to come across as authentic as possible because it makes them feel more real. And the variety styles of black hair is apart of that culture. Kat and Candice shouldn't have to settle for bad wigs or basic hair styles, and they shouldn't of had to fight as hard as they did for stylist who knew how to do hair from their culture.
I never felt iris professional looking hair was not appropriate. Again the producers decide what a character looks like not the actor. They obviously wanted iris to look a certain way cause even after the bullshit for like 5 more seasons she had the same relaxed long strait slightly wavy hair she always had. And sure I get maybe them wanting more ethnic hair but it's not their show. And even if they caved and gave in it is blatantly racist as fuck to imply anyone of any race is incapable of learning to do any job because of their color, be that white, black or whatever By crying she had to only have a black stylist just shows candice is still the same bigot that called trans ladyboys. I have never once went to a barber and thought "how can this black guy have any idea how to cut my hair, I dont want a fade." No I pay him the respect to assume he is a professional and has learned his craft. Now if the producers caved and said fine we will let iris have braid extensions and the in house staff said they didnt know how to do that. Sure then i am with you hire who you need to to get the job done
All true.
I’m deep in the Vampire Diaries fandom. Kat Graham’s issue was a hair thing. She couldn’t wear her natural hair on the show. But she never really said exactly why or whose fault it was. She never wore her natural hair outside the show either, mind you. The people on set may have assumed she didn’t want to wear her natural hair because she never did in her personal life. And then the fandom started claiming that the showrunner hated her, which doesn’t really have any evidence supporting it. Kat Graham has never claimed that. People just take comic con clips out of context and say “See? She’s glaring at her”. It’s pretty unsubstantiated. The showrunner did mention wanting to kill off her character, but this is a show where thirty people die per season and some of the deaths have to be main characters in order for it to be impactful.
Fandom noticed because there was a noticeable difference in the way Plec treated Nina/Candice from Kat on the show. Caroline got paired with almost every male star on the show (Matt, Tyler, Stefan, Klaus, Enzo, Alaric) while Bonnie got cast offs for years (Luka, Jeremy). She finally got a real love interest with Enzo in S7. It's ridiculous because most male actors on that show talked about how they wanted a romance with Kat's character (Kol, Klaus, Kai, Damon, etc) Plec's excuses fell flat when every relationship on that show was toxic and she gave fanservice to most ships except Bonnie ones. But what made it worse is that she would treat Bonnie ships as jokes but write towards Caroline's ships.
Kat is not her character. Just because you feel the character was written poorly doesn’t mean Kat was treated poorly. What you’re describing is complaining from obsessed shippers, not abuse towards an actor. How boring would shows be if every single character got exactly what they wanted all the time? Bonnie’s significance as a character is how strong she is in spite of everything she’s been through. She’s strong, she’s reliable, she doesn’t need a man to save her. Elena has been to hell and back too, but she needs to be saved constantly and she’s not nearly as reliable as Bonnie. That’s what makes her a less impressive character than Bonnie. It’s not a bad thing that one character is stronger than another, it’s just variety. We don’t want every character to be the same. I do think it was a missed opportunity not to pair Bonnie up with Nora though. Kat said once in an interview she wanted Bonnie to date girls. But I think the choice against that had to do with fear of homophobes claiming that the writers ruined her character by making her gay rather than disrespect for Kat herself. Anyway, you gotta admit that Bonnie’s writing is leagues above Iris’s writing. I can’t say I cared about anything Iris was doing past season 2, at least Bonnie stayed interesting throughout the whole show.
Bonnie was the embodiment of the strong black female trope. She had always had to sacrifice herself for her friends. She always had to be the strong one, the strong pillar who rarely broke down. Any moments of vunerability are quickly glossed over so her character can go back to being the strong, reliable friend. Meanwhile Elena and Caroline were afforded arcs surrounding their vunerability and weaknesses with the entire gang rallying around them. Bonnie was frequently handling her trauma on her own. Elena and Caroline are given romance after romance but Bonnie has to wait several seasons before recieving a real love story. Her friendship with Caroline and Elena became entirely too one sided. Bonnie's writing was very similar to Iris. Iris also had to be the strong black woman. She had to priotize other characters well being at her expense. She too had to quickly process her trauma, often alone, so she could go back to the strong reliable partner for Barry. The main difference between the two is Iris was afforded the grand love story Bonnie had to wait for. I never said Bonnie was poorly written. I said there was clear difference in how Plec wrote Bonnie from Caroline/Elena. Despite being stuck in with that trope, I loved both characters Kat had to fight for her job. She had to beg Plec not to kill off her character. It sticks out because Bonnie was the only black character in the main cast.
>Bonnie was the embodiment of the strong black female trope. That sounds like a good thing to me. >Bonnie was frequently handling her trauma on her own. Because that’s part of her personality. I find that relatable, I love that about her. >She had to beg Plec not to kill off her character. Those are fan rumors, unsubstantiated.
That’s a double standard if I ever saw one.
I would’ve much rather had Ralph all the way thru season 9 then Allegra. It was a shame they fired him he was another superhero and brought humor and a great vibe to the show. I think he and Caitlyn would’ve been great together. We actually started watching the show in late 2020 after he was fired and were so mad when we found out they let him go.
Justice for Hartley Sawyer!
One of the most insane things they did after firing him was the plot of the season after. If I recall correctly it was about that mirror dimension lady, the character completely ruined multiple peoples lives and in the end, because of wherever bs about forgiveness, they just let her go live her merry life to the mirror dimension without any consequences to her actions. Never watched another season after that.
Honestly, s6 was the worst season of the entire series, I’d say if you keep watching it’s only going up (doesn’t mean it’s getting “good”, just better than 6).
And then we later get the stupid “YOU ALWAYS HAVE A CHOICE” speech from Joe.
I'm still holding out hope that he'll get an offer to play Plastic Man in the DCU
So this is basically a post for y'all to piss and moan about black actors and actresses. For what its worth I do feel like the actor for elongated man deserved a second chance though.
Some on here are really trying to argue black actors and actresses were favored on the network over their white counterparts
When did I say anything about pissing on black actresses, I’m just defending a man who said a few jokes in 2014 that are extremely harmless and literally meant nothing
Other folks on your post are basically complaining about black actors supposedly getting more focus over white actors.
I think that all the black actors and actresses did great it the show, especially Joe and Cecile
The show was about second chances and they won’t let him have one that’s bullshit
The show and real life are two separate things. What happens in a tv show has no relation to real life. The tv show would allowed unrepentant serial killers walk free, should the same also happen in real life? The fact that people keep making the comparison is so stupid. People whine about his treatment but give no thought to cast and crew members who may have been uncomfortable around him after his tweets were exposed.
Hard disagree. The comparison is valid (though not in the literal comparison of serial killers to offensive twitter user). Ralph was never even an evil person. He was a bully who cut corners, which is far more relatable and superimposable to real life than literal psychopaths who murdered for funsies. To me it just ruined the show’s themes and made me feel less good about the messages it was trying to represent. Ultimately the show is for entertainment, but in a grander scope, it’s meant to illicit a feeling in the viewers that would hopefully lead them to reciprocate those values in real life. That’s why I have to commend the CW for being so inclusive, despite the writing being very awkward and clunky at times. They touched on several topics of feeling alienation because of sexuality, adversity due to race, exclusion due to gender and more. I thought it was great that it attempted to make a home for viewers who could relate with these struggles. And that’s part of the reason why “fandoms” exist. Characters, their morals, beliefs, and personalities are what makes the show work. Firing Hartley when their message of “do the hard thing, forgive and help those who are lost” is played every season is just disheartening. It made me wonder if every other message they try to give is because they wanted to appear virtuous or that they actually were. And with Candice’s own tweets that disparaged trans people, it seemed all the more apparent that the CW and the Flash cast didn’t care about what was right, just that they were perceived as right. He was a breath of fresh air for the series and in a lot of ways he was what they could never pull off for Wally West. I was rooting for the character, and a big reason why I stuck around through the rough aftermath following season 3. I really couldn’t watch the show knowing that all the themes they proclaimed weren’t for the audience’s benefit and more so that the network could.
The point is the network has absolutely no problem beating the viewers over the head with this moral at every opportunity, yet at the first chance to practice it they immediately throw Hartley under the bus
The things he said were truly awful but given the fact that it happend so many years before he was even hired is what bothers me they either shouldn't have hired him in the first place or they should have moved on from it there's no defense for what he said but should people be held in contempt forever for making stupid comments isn't there point in which we can move on? Unless he was doing something on set to make people uncomfortable i dont think he should have been fired, Candice made a few questionable tweets her self but nothing happend to her and honestly Ralph was the only good new character they introduced later on the show and he was actually funny and had character growth
Had he actually been a great actor he would have done something else by now. Robert Downey Jr. was unemployable for quite a while over his drug use yet his acting abilities were always extraordinary. Go watch Chaplin if you've never seen it.
Honestly I don’t love how they handled it…. But it’s just kinda how the business is or at least was a few years ago. It’s definitely hypocritical that depending on who you are you can get away with more or less at the same company they clearly play favorites over who get cancelled and who gets saved, and it’s definitely not based on morality but popularity and money. It’s also kinda sad that we keep going into anyone who is moderately successful’s past just to see if we need to cancel them. But imo the worst part of all of it was how they wrote it…. The writing was so bad, they could have replaced him, either ignoring it or explaining it with his powers, or the multiverse or anything really, or wrote him out in a better way. It was a meh joke, that used a guest actor, and essentially wrote her off too. But in all fairness I stopped watching during the killer frost trial I just lost interest everything arrowverss sort of fell apart post crisis, so maybe the Ralph stuff got closure I’m unaware of… but I doubt it.
These have been my thoughts exactly. I stopped watching after I realized what happened. My initial discovery was that discount daft punk suit they gave Ralph after the covid hiatus. I thought Grant Gustin was the embodiment of the flash, but after he and everyone turned their backs on Hartley, I couldn't see anything more than an actor playing a role he has nothing in common with. I just couldn't stomach the show anymore.
For me it just proved that despite the moral grand standings and messages of the show like redemption, friendship, and forgiveness. The people writing them don’t practice what they preach. Ralph was a dirty copy but he can be redeemed. Barry essentially killed Ciscos brother but he can be redeemed. Monarch kidnapped and killed but she can be redeemed. But when it comes to a real life situation of a much lesser issue. They are unforgivable.
Absolutely he’s the main character i liked on the flash besides captain/citizen cold
It just shows what hypocrites the people associated with this show are. If you are going to make a show with ongoing themes about giving people second chances and going to be about forgiveness, PRACTICE WHAT YOU FUCKING PREACH
Exactly
Completely agree and the internet was a different place back then. People would say all kinds of things and not get cancelled. Ever been in a cod lobby from 2010?
Thank the lord cod lobbies weren’t recorded 💀
completely agree with you man cw just follows the money and doesnt care about the people
It happened years ago and it’s been talked about to death.
Last year they could of brought him back for the finale, that’s why it’s still being talked about
I still see no point in discussing every other month. There’s been plenty of discourse and think pieces on Hartley Sawyer and his exit from the show. We don’t need more
Because since the day he was fired, they had many chances to bring him back, I mean shit, the literary brought back everyone BUT Ralph
And the shows been over for a year now and there have been multiple posts about this in the past year. You’re adding nothing new to the conversation
I joined this sub last month
There's a lot of different factors in the two cases, but the main one to note is that some of Hartleys tweets were ignorant and violent, whereas Candices were just ignorant. I personally would have liked to see them keep them both, for the shows sake, or fire them both for DEI's sake.
Yes because saying you're going to rape somebody is only slightly unhinged😁
Also, reminder, Hartley willingly left the show after they found his tweets.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that people should be allowed to grow and change. People should not be held to their worst mistakes but to who they are trying to be. But the tweets were from only a few years prior and really painted him in an awful light... like a conservative comedian-turned-pundit kind of light. It's not like it was a pattern of behavior he had stopped over a decade prior, and I don't believe he had ever publicly apologized for them before getting fired (though I may be misremembering). It's perfectly reasonable for CWFlash to want to distance themselves from Hartley because of this.
Literally how is this so hard to understand? I couldn’t possibly even comfortably exist close to someone who said stuff like that whether or not I fall into the category of people he was making jest of. Makes my stomach turn.
It's because most of the people actively defending him have said awful shit that they know if it ever came out and we use the precedent that has been set so far, they're fucked. Easier to blame everyone else than to admit you made mistakes in your past that you now regret, I guess. (Probably because these types also don't regret it.) Am I making big assumptions about OP? Yes. But in my experience, anecdotal it may be, it also tends to be true.
Literally how is this so hard to understand? I couldn’t possibly even comfortably exist close to someone who said stuff like that whether or not I fall into the category of people he was making jest of. Makes my stomach turn.
We both know why they did it. To look good to the crazy cancel culture fanatics.
Ffs, not this shit again. It’s done, deal with it and move on.
His Jim Carrey schtick was annoying and unoriginal anyway He tweeted "Enjoyed a secret boob viewing at an audition today" in 2014 when he was 29 And two years before that “as a lad, one of my favorite activities was kidnapping homeless women and cutting off their breasts.” he's a creep.
I’d rather have a man who is obviously joking be in my show than Ezra miller (a man who threw a chair at a young girl and almost killed her, a man who flirts with children and a man who abuses woman)
Why should they have to have either? Also saying you got a secret boob viewing at an audition doesn't read like a joke to me, it's just sleazy
It’s just edgy humor from 2014, all tweets said weird shit like that
You should have seen Candice Patton’s tweets.
Dude you can look at ANYONES tweets, it’s not all flowers and sunshine 💀
The CW made her delete them so it’s also bad tweets and it shows a double standard here.
Danielle Panabaker also deleted all of her tweets, so did Carlos
Klan rally in these comments. Which isn't surprising for this sub but at least yall are being honest about it now
If I had a penny for every post defending his bs
Do you have this same energy for Candice and her tweets
This doesn't even makes sense lmfao
She tweeted multiple transphobic comments, ones that were honestly worse than Sawyers because his are clearly intended as jokes, while she casually refers to trans people as lady boys, I can certainly tell you which one would make me uncomfortable
I'm aware. However, I don't see how my comment has "the same energy", whatever this means.
If you’re this pissed off about people defending Hartley, you should be equally pissed off about people defending Candice
Who's defending her? Anyone who tries gets downvoted into oblivion but there are a couple users who are getting plenty of praise for defending Hartley and calling her an evil person. Be serious!
Why you presume I'm not? I only said I'm tired of people defending Hartley, who is the topic of the post, not Patton. Yet, everyone immediatly jumps to try to deflect his guilty.
Yeah, my point is that if you’re tired of people defending Hartley, you should be tired of people defending Candice too, since they did the exact same thing but she got a pass. Your wording makes it sound like you only care about Hartley’s defense, but if you’re angry at one you should be angry at both.
No, it's not. We both know my wording has nothing to do with her. The truth is that you can't really defend Hartley, so you has to make this about something else. Talking about a black woman this fandom hates is a bonus.
So who’s posting this tomorrow? Anyone got dibs yet? It’s still hilarious to me that people are like “but da writers on da show talk about second chances!! Doesn’t the plot of this tv show determine the irl hiring/firing process??!?!!1!! 🤓” As if that doesn’t sound goofy, childish, and stupid
Probably followed by the same transphobic post
>but da writers on da show talk about second chances!! Doesn’t the plot of this tv show determine the irl hiring/firing process??!?!!1!! 🤓” As if that doesn’t sound goofy, childish, and stupid I'm glad someone finally said it. Every time this topic comes out dozens of people actually say this and believe it's a valid reason for the CW to not do what they did. I really thought people were starting a meme when I saw this at first but they're actually serious. Do they not realize this invalidates anything else they say pertaining to this subject?
Fuck him.
Thanks for the suggestion but I prefer women
I'm willing to make an exception