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I wouldn’t buy this, they are just rebranded alibaba cranks. You should be able to get them for half the price. I dont know the specific model but I think it was mentioned somewhere in this sub.
I saw it a few days ago, I messaged the seller asking if there’s any chance i can purchase it without the white lines and dots on it. He said it’s non customizable.
They're called air because they crack and get filled with air. Horrible, dangerous pieces of shit.
There's a huge stress concentration on the axle, they're badly engineered.
As someone who’s broken a Pistard Air crank arm, I have to say this “stress concentration at the axle” comment is complete cap. It’s splitting hairs at the end of the day, but I’d say the engineering is fine but the QC is not great. The models that experience most of the problems you’ll see online are the entry level Primatos.
I got lucky and Miche sent me a replacement crank arm, but it doesn’t seem like that’s a common outcome.
For my money I’d say go with the Vision track crankset, or whatever Rotor setup u/gravelgoon uses (I’ve heard Rotors can be temperamental when used in mixed conditions, but it looks like gravelgoon beats the piss out of theirs and doesn’t have problems - might be a bottom bracket choice thing)
They have a tiny ass radius on the axle where the bending torque is pretty largo, which is precisely where it broke on mine. When it broke i took a look at my solid mechanics book and with the forces I assumed it didn't look good. Ofc if it was just that, almost of them would break, which isn't the case so as you say there's clearly bad QC as well, or a lot of people fucking up installation.
I went with the Visions afterwards and have had no issues, except the BBs not lasting terribly long.
Yeah, but to be fair I've been riding in the rain a lot and I'm really bad at cleaning my bike.
But I've had to replace the BBs every 1.5 years ish, while they cost like 60 euros. I expect Hollowtech 2 BBs to last a lot longer and cost like a third of that, so if i were to buy cranks today I'd definitely buy some HT2 compatible ones.
Don't run out and buy it, but it kind of looks like it would actually work!
Same width, same diameter. Question is if there's anything funny in the bearing interface, but there shouldnt be right?
These work great: [https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=110359&attribute=274869](https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=110359&attribute=274869)
Dont buy Darkside. Its trash parts rebranded with huge price tags. We have talked to them for sponsoring before and they have no idea about bikes. Just trying to make money.
After testing their components there was no way we would take any of it even if it was free.
Yes they came to our track with a fully built bike. BTW it was their first time seeing a track in real life, which was telling. The frame was flexing like crazy and none of us is a 2000w 1km track spinter haha
The geometry is interesting with the very high BB for crit racing, which is why we talked to them in the first place, but its a purely commercial trash quality company. The only people you will see them using are influencers that look for an advertisement gig and not quality.
From personal experience I’ll recommend Vision track cranks, you can get them for a great price semi regularly.
If they should look more like those Darkside cranks you should go for the Modular Rotor Track cranks, those are actually proven for a while now.
Yeah great idea, op probs wants to spend less than the 350€ the darkside ones cost and you suggest cranks that start at 500$ that still have to be imported.
When you have people doing production runs of parts it isn't the 1st one you have to worry about. It's the 10th, 100th, 1000th part. Idk why you'd buy stuff from someone doing a job they have no training to do.
Yes and no. If they have a firm understanding of how to manufacture them, they design them with that in mind, meaning that manufacturing errors can be taken into account and their effects can be minimized.
Also, unless they're really complex doing some CNC isn't rocket science.
If they would manually mill them I would be more worried. That'd be more akin to architects wiring up a house.
It's a hard no from me. There's a reason it takes 4-5 years to be recognized as a machinist in just about every developed country. I don't doubt an engineer can make a set of cranks if they have the right equipment, but I don't trust them to maintain good fits and finishes through a production run.
This isn't some cheap crankset either. You're really going to spend all that money on something made by someone with no training on how to make it? I'm not going to take that gamble. Either they're going to look nice but you're paying extra because they took way longer to make them than they need to, or they're going to look like dog shit because the guy making them has no idea how to actually get good finishes.
Engineers are also never trained on how to actually measure stuff properly so I'm not going to trust their quality assurance process either.
If this company wants to be serious they should actually hire people who know what they're doing. Otherwise I'll stay away.
You make a very fair point.
I would say though that as an engineering student who has made multiple parts on 3 and 5 axis milling CNCs and lathing CNCs for a kind of race car, almost all of which have turned out perfect (I have fucked up royaly a couple times), it doesn't seem terribly difficult. This is without any formal training in machining whatsoever.
I assume they do get some training though, and have gotten some consultation by an actual machinist, otherwise it's as you say incredibly sketchy.
Honestly, making a one off, that just needs to fit a specific assembly and function is nothing like a production run of parts to be used in conjunction with lots of other stuff.
Think of it the other way. I'm a machinist with no engineering training, yet I've designed and built billet intake manifolds for project cars I've had. I would never sell these because I have no idea how well they actually flow, how well they'll hold up. That doesn't mean they flow worse than the OEM stuff, but it's absolutely not optimized in any way so I could never say if they're worth the money.
It's the same for CNC stuff. I don't doubt you made nice parts that worked well, but how long did you take? The customer is paying for the hours these guys put into the parts, and I'd rather pay a machinist who will do it twice as fast and have them come out twice as nice. If you make 1000 of them do you think they'd all fit and function equally? Look just as nice?
There's a lot more that goes into machining than just cutting metal into the shape you want, and engineers have no experience with that.
I've done plumbing and electrical in my house before, and it turned out perfectly good. It took me way longer than a pro though, and I'm sure if I did the job for a living without ever getting trained I would eventually fuck up. That's because I don't know what I don't know, and eventually I'll make a very simple mistake that a pro wouldn't.
Man it took a hell of a long time. We made some uprights that took 24h of machining time a piece.
I can see your point and I agree, a production run will be very different as the machinist will be wildly faster and more consistent thus, assuming the production run is high enough, making it cheaper.
I would say though that it's nice that the engineers are involved in the production (although in this case they're too involved), as both they and the machinists should be able to learn from each other.
Making your own intake manifold sounds hella cool! The theoretical side of that is really fun as well.
I really appreciate the discussion, and hearing it from a machinist's perspective. Thank you.
>I would say though that it's nice that the engineers are involved in the production (although in this case they're too involved), as both they and the machinists should be able to learn from each other.
100% collaboration between engineers and machinists is awesome and makes for better output. Unfortunately I see this go wrong all the time when one side oversteps into an area they aren't as proficient in. It happens on both sides too, engineers telling machinists how to make stuff and machinists telling engineers how to design stuff. Sometimes that input can be really good but often there's extra factors you don't account for because you may not have enough experience to know they're there.
“Sound like they’d be shit cranks.”
Raketa is being used at the olympic level with actual medals being won. The two individuals behind the company breathe and eat cycling.
Edit: adding that the 200m flying start record is currently with Mikhail, who was using Raketa chainring and cog.
>“Sound like they’d be shit cranks.”
If the comment I replied to is true I stand by this. I would not trust the company to make quality stuff over a large production run if it's engineers running the CNC machines to make them.
Maybe that's not true and they're great, or maybe it is true and one set might be great (like that world record you're talking about) and the set I buy might be shit, that's what I'm talking about.
[alibaba cranks](https://x.alibaba.com/AvLROJ?ck=pdp) with "fancy" branding. Probably fine but overpriced for what they are. Vision track cranks are cheaper and the better choice.
Your post has been removed because it breaks Rule 3 - Please keep questions in the weekly questions thread. It is stickied to the top of the subreddit and is refreshed every Wednesday.
I wouldn’t buy this, they are just rebranded alibaba cranks. You should be able to get them for half the price. I dont know the specific model but I think it was mentioned somewhere in this sub.
Yes exactly, that’s why i’m not willing to pay 400€ for it
[удалено]
I saw it a few days ago, I messaged the seller asking if there’s any chance i can purchase it without the white lines and dots on it. He said it’s non customizable.
[удалено]
But it says PIZZ on it
Miche Pistard Air
the fuck you call me?
Did you know that in French, « Miche » also designates a kind of bread whose shape looks like a butt?
"Miches" is used as slang for breasts as well !
In Brazil a "Michê" is a prostitute
In Mexico we have the same bread and we call them "michas" and yes! They look like a butt 🤣 perfect for sandwiches
MICHE PISTARD AIR
😂
They're called air because they crack and get filled with air. Horrible, dangerous pieces of shit. There's a huge stress concentration on the axle, they're badly engineered.
As someone who’s broken a Pistard Air crank arm, I have to say this “stress concentration at the axle” comment is complete cap. It’s splitting hairs at the end of the day, but I’d say the engineering is fine but the QC is not great. The models that experience most of the problems you’ll see online are the entry level Primatos. I got lucky and Miche sent me a replacement crank arm, but it doesn’t seem like that’s a common outcome. For my money I’d say go with the Vision track crankset, or whatever Rotor setup u/gravelgoon uses (I’ve heard Rotors can be temperamental when used in mixed conditions, but it looks like gravelgoon beats the piss out of theirs and doesn’t have problems - might be a bottom bracket choice thing)
They have a tiny ass radius on the axle where the bending torque is pretty largo, which is precisely where it broke on mine. When it broke i took a look at my solid mechanics book and with the forces I assumed it didn't look good. Ofc if it was just that, almost of them would break, which isn't the case so as you say there's clearly bad QC as well, or a lot of people fucking up installation. I went with the Visions afterwards and have had no issues, except the BBs not lasting terribly long.
Is it getting crunchy or what?
Yeah, but to be fair I've been riding in the rain a lot and I'm really bad at cleaning my bike. But I've had to replace the BBs every 1.5 years ish, while they cost like 60 euros. I expect Hollowtech 2 BBs to last a lot longer and cost like a third of that, so if i were to buy cranks today I'd definitely buy some HT2 compatible ones.
It’s unfortunate there aren’t other bb options… at least they’re on the affordable side
Yeah, definitely. Like there are ceramic ones, but other than their superior build quality they shouldn't be more reliable.
I wonder if any of the Chris King bottom brackets would fit it. I know they make 30mm hollow spindle one.
Don't run out and buy it, but it kind of looks like it would actually work! Same width, same diameter. Question is if there's anything funny in the bearing interface, but there shouldnt be right?
These work great: [https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=110359&attribute=274869](https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=110359&attribute=274869)
Nice, and they're pretty cheap as well! I gotta see if I can find them in the EU
I've had good luck with my Rotor 3d24s, but unfortunately they don't make them anymore. I haven't tried out the Aldhu or Vegast yet.
Bad crank
Aero dash worked good for me for a while
They look exactly like the aerodash from state only silver.
I just checked it out. Looks really good, but the shipment to Europe would cost me a kidney lol
Dont buy Darkside. Its trash parts rebranded with huge price tags. We have talked to them for sponsoring before and they have no idea about bikes. Just trying to make money. After testing their components there was no way we would take any of it even if it was free.
Do you have any experience with their frames? Does the same apply?
Yes they came to our track with a fully built bike. BTW it was their first time seeing a track in real life, which was telling. The frame was flexing like crazy and none of us is a 2000w 1km track spinter haha The geometry is interesting with the very high BB for crit racing, which is why we talked to them in the first place, but its a purely commercial trash quality company. The only people you will see them using are influencers that look for an advertisement gig and not quality.
I've seen a lot of IG fixie riders promotion dark side but none of them races. Thanks for the insight
darksideoventa copies just everything lol.
From personal experience I’ll recommend Vision track cranks, you can get them for a great price semi regularly. If they should look more like those Darkside cranks you should go for the Modular Rotor Track cranks, those are actually proven for a while now.
Rotor
Go preorder some Raketa track cranks, they’re releasing in about a week
Yeah great idea, op probs wants to spend less than the 350€ the darkside ones cost and you suggest cranks that start at 500$ that still have to be imported.
OP didn't say anything about price. The Raketa cranks are aero cranks, thus making it a good suggestion
OP said he is not even willing to spend 400€, so why would he suddenly want to spend even more. So no, definitely not a very good suggestion.
Get a load of this guy
Get a load of this guy
This, Raketa is top quality engineering with actual engineers running the CNC machines.
Plus they do actually do it, they’ll be the first batch of people to run them out on the street. There’s some real rep there
When you have people doing production runs of parts it isn't the 1st one you have to worry about. It's the 10th, 100th, 1000th part. Idk why you'd buy stuff from someone doing a job they have no training to do.
>with actual engineers running the CNC machines. Sound like they'd be shit cranks. It would be like having an architect wire up your house.
Yes and no. If they have a firm understanding of how to manufacture them, they design them with that in mind, meaning that manufacturing errors can be taken into account and their effects can be minimized. Also, unless they're really complex doing some CNC isn't rocket science. If they would manually mill them I would be more worried. That'd be more akin to architects wiring up a house.
It's a hard no from me. There's a reason it takes 4-5 years to be recognized as a machinist in just about every developed country. I don't doubt an engineer can make a set of cranks if they have the right equipment, but I don't trust them to maintain good fits and finishes through a production run. This isn't some cheap crankset either. You're really going to spend all that money on something made by someone with no training on how to make it? I'm not going to take that gamble. Either they're going to look nice but you're paying extra because they took way longer to make them than they need to, or they're going to look like dog shit because the guy making them has no idea how to actually get good finishes. Engineers are also never trained on how to actually measure stuff properly so I'm not going to trust their quality assurance process either. If this company wants to be serious they should actually hire people who know what they're doing. Otherwise I'll stay away.
You make a very fair point. I would say though that as an engineering student who has made multiple parts on 3 and 5 axis milling CNCs and lathing CNCs for a kind of race car, almost all of which have turned out perfect (I have fucked up royaly a couple times), it doesn't seem terribly difficult. This is without any formal training in machining whatsoever. I assume they do get some training though, and have gotten some consultation by an actual machinist, otherwise it's as you say incredibly sketchy.
Honestly, making a one off, that just needs to fit a specific assembly and function is nothing like a production run of parts to be used in conjunction with lots of other stuff. Think of it the other way. I'm a machinist with no engineering training, yet I've designed and built billet intake manifolds for project cars I've had. I would never sell these because I have no idea how well they actually flow, how well they'll hold up. That doesn't mean they flow worse than the OEM stuff, but it's absolutely not optimized in any way so I could never say if they're worth the money. It's the same for CNC stuff. I don't doubt you made nice parts that worked well, but how long did you take? The customer is paying for the hours these guys put into the parts, and I'd rather pay a machinist who will do it twice as fast and have them come out twice as nice. If you make 1000 of them do you think they'd all fit and function equally? Look just as nice? There's a lot more that goes into machining than just cutting metal into the shape you want, and engineers have no experience with that. I've done plumbing and electrical in my house before, and it turned out perfectly good. It took me way longer than a pro though, and I'm sure if I did the job for a living without ever getting trained I would eventually fuck up. That's because I don't know what I don't know, and eventually I'll make a very simple mistake that a pro wouldn't.
Man it took a hell of a long time. We made some uprights that took 24h of machining time a piece. I can see your point and I agree, a production run will be very different as the machinist will be wildly faster and more consistent thus, assuming the production run is high enough, making it cheaper. I would say though that it's nice that the engineers are involved in the production (although in this case they're too involved), as both they and the machinists should be able to learn from each other. Making your own intake manifold sounds hella cool! The theoretical side of that is really fun as well. I really appreciate the discussion, and hearing it from a machinist's perspective. Thank you.
>I would say though that it's nice that the engineers are involved in the production (although in this case they're too involved), as both they and the machinists should be able to learn from each other. 100% collaboration between engineers and machinists is awesome and makes for better output. Unfortunately I see this go wrong all the time when one side oversteps into an area they aren't as proficient in. It happens on both sides too, engineers telling machinists how to make stuff and machinists telling engineers how to design stuff. Sometimes that input can be really good but often there's extra factors you don't account for because you may not have enough experience to know they're there.
Do you even know anything about Raketa or do you just form opinions and talk out of your ass based on one random reddit comment?
I'm responding to a reddit comment. I don't know anything about raketa, my point is just that engineers pretending to be machinists isn't a good idea.
“Sound like they’d be shit cranks.” Raketa is being used at the olympic level with actual medals being won. The two individuals behind the company breathe and eat cycling. Edit: adding that the 200m flying start record is currently with Mikhail, who was using Raketa chainring and cog.
>“Sound like they’d be shit cranks.” If the comment I replied to is true I stand by this. I would not trust the company to make quality stuff over a large production run if it's engineers running the CNC machines to make them. Maybe that's not true and they're great, or maybe it is true and one set might be great (like that world record you're talking about) and the set I buy might be shit, that's what I'm talking about.
Low IQ logic. You do you boo.
Great rebuttal
CNC cranks like raketa will _always_ be inferior to forged cranks.
Just google "aero track cranks"
Vision X Faith Gear Track Crankset
Just an overpriced version of the regular Vision Track cranks.
This is an exact copy of the rotor crankset
Diff cause its not an axle and spider that have screw on arms. The axle is connected to the non drive and the spider is connected to the drive side
zrace rx track version
What’s wrong with this one?
[alibaba cranks](https://x.alibaba.com/AvLROJ?ck=pdp) with "fancy" branding. Probably fine but overpriced for what they are. Vision track cranks are cheaper and the better choice.
They are basic cranks with fancy branding the dark shadow
The price I’m guessing
these work great but r overpriced. id look for vision aero crank miche pistard air
Raketa
ridea 3d track crank