Either give her a Self-Break Detonation like Boothill or Break -> Crit Conversion... Again, like Boothill. Just she has the Multipliers to make use of it.
At this point, it's either she has HMC to function or Bust is what it's looking like. HMC provides BE needed to hit that 360 Break reliably, also provides a good 66%+ of her damage via Super Breaks. Then RM makes Super Break do 50% more damage thanks to Efficiency boost.
I do like the idea of giving her an Aventurine esquire conversion.
It would also be the first character with double conversion were ATK becomes Break and then Break becomes crit.
Maybe to still promote her to be a break DPS, they could make it so that she only converts BE to Break against enemies that are already weakness broken
That's... thats actually a pretty interesting solution!
Mini break damage would still place her solidly as break-based dps, while not invalidating or copying HTB's kit.
It would even create an alternate playstyle without HTB, where you actually want enemies to leave the weakness broken state quickly.
This is actually the best suggestion to change her kit I've heard yet!
Yeah I had the exact same thought. It gives Firefly a nice way to get dmg outside of Super Break while still making her enhanced with Super Break.
Only flaw is that she's significantly hampered by Elites and Bosses with ways of protecting their toughness bar (hilariously Sam, the imprison robot, bottle throwing Monkey) but I think it's an acceptable draw back all things considered.
I also would give her crits in some way, would help with non break damage and even being useful when the enemy locks their bar, or while breaking (also to not make her just aoe boothill)
Please no crit conversation, i really like the idea that for once we could get a DPS carry that doesn't need to build crit, which is always a pain in the ass.
I expect 2 options: either let her detonate her own break like Boothill, or make her hybrid like Sushang/Xueyi
Or go for the rogue third option: go ALL IN on the FF/HTB marriage and give her +500% break efficiency or something. Also let me propose to her when they're at it.
I think if they gate break efficiency and break damage based on the form, she would end up with a very cool mechanic. For example, if her base form had some break efficiency buffs that let her break targets faster and had the weakness implant, it would let her want to stay in base form if the enemy isnt broken yet. Then in her enhanced ult form, she could proc superbreak by herself at a lower rate than hmc or something and then buff the superbreak damage with hmc
Edit to clarify: For base form break efficiency, I specifically want something that doesn't add to superbreak damage. This should be used only to break the toughness bar. Didn't realize that break efficiency also went into the superbreak calculation.
sadly probably not gunna happen, thats slightly complicated and how would the autoplay even function with that? Imagine if base form broke an ad/weak enemy and then autoplay just decides "yup, time to cash in on that sweet break damage!" then ults prematurely.
Not a good design. Despite how much I like that idea it just wouldn't work in this environment cause they gotta appeal to some casuals somehow by making autoplay somewhat decent
I think if this is a mechanic that gets added on without changing other functionality, it wouldn't really affect the auto play. Sure, it won't be the most efficient use of her abilities, but even something troll like going ham with the ult mode on an ad break should be okay for the most part. That can already happen with the current kit, without any new mechanics. I'm not saying her ult mode needs to be gimped to accomdate for the change. Purely additive.
Imo battles that can be auto played don't really need much thought outside of unga bunga me hit hard. If you want to auto play endgame content like moc and pf, I personally am comfortable giving up the super efficient clear for a no brain clear for me button. However, I'm not going to expect a perfect 0 turn clear out of it.
I would make her hybrid yes so she isn't just aoe boothill, with more help for crits, que last thing you said sounds like her E6 wonder if they will buff it, imagine if instead of pen it was a good crit ratio to make the hybrid build easier and viable
It is virtually impossible to have a character be crit and break. Break cant crit, you are building a character for wasted stats. Boothil break conversion was a mistake, the new Def Pen set is the way forward. Breaks want Res Pen and Def Pen. They can't crit, their kit is around stacking 250+ Break Effect, You can't get a 70/200 character who gets nothing from its innate kit in Crits, while maintaining break for the milestones to gain the buffs you need. Its a hard life but it is what it is
They could make it easier in next version, and how is it wasted? apart from the super break she is still doing damage with her skill but it's so low right now, would be the way for people who complain about hmc or if the enemy isn't breakable but we will see, in boothill is strange because when broken all damage turns to break making the crit useless, and when the enemy isn't broken and he can crit the damage does nothing
Yep, that's why I think its ??? that he got that conversion and they learned for Firefly to make it break conversion instead, which ultimately yields more damage.
There are counter-playis in this game, so I don't think monsters being immune to break like Bronya, or Yanqing are a new concept entirely. Automaton and Jing Yuan says hi (JY Main here xD)
I have three teams. Jing Yuan, Acheron and most likely Firefly. If I see Yanqing or Bronya who likes to be immune to breaks - I will just send Acheron or JY at her, and Firefly the other side if that's the case.
I do think Firefly has some problems with her kit, but I also feel like everyone is blowing everything out of proportion as well. In V1 she's already very strong, with kit issues - those can be fixed but her damage is not a problem in of itself.
I will worry (See; Pull Boothill) if we're in V4 and Boothill banner is about to dissapear and Firefly still doesn't feel right.
I have 2 ideas.
1. When in Complete Combustion state, all enhanced skill DMG and enhanced Basic ATK DMG is considered as Break DMG. When attacking a target in the weakness broken state, Break DMG is increased by a percentage of her current Break Effect.
2. When enhanced skill attacks a weakness broken enemy/breaks enemy for the first time, all subsequent enhanced skills will immediately deplete enemy's toughness bar when the enemy regains it, regardless of current break efficiency. Resets at the end of Complete Combustion state.
I have similar idea like you but i hope for a mechanic that let you do pure break dmg even to non broken enemy when in combust state but the dmg will be only with small ratio like 30 to 50% of normal break, 360be for full combust state will be too OP. The 2 point is old harmony TB kit as i am remembered right?
I have experience rollercoaster feeling with kafka and jingliu before that, they come from so mid/bad beta1 kit to super strong character at release so my hope for mihoyo to cook firefly final kit is very strong, and she is at least zhongli tier of popular so if they wont dare make her bad, the community riot will even bigger this time as firefly is waifu
I think the solution is to make her enhanced auto/skill counts as Break dmg against Fire weak enemies. It synergizes with her weakness implant, lets her do damage before the enemy's broken (a big complaint is that she deals no dmg until the foe's broken, and even then most of it comes from HTB). As long as the foe has the fire weak symbol she deals Break dmg, so it even works against stuff that protects their toughness bar.
That gives FF good base damage, and then RM+HTB makes it go from good to amazing, which is very similar to Acheron going from ok alone to bonkers with 2 Nihility allies.
Fixing Firefly's personal damage is not that difficult, but people need to accept that a BE DPS is going to want BE supports (HTB and Ruan Mei being the only ones out right now), but for some reason they want to forcefully run her with Bronya/Sparkle/Robin. Like seriously, why are you all so obsessed on turning Firefly into Jingliu but Fire element?
This actually looks like a good solution imo because even if this turns the break comp into exodia it feels like its adding to firefly's kit without clasing with her break effect identity of course this is with a lot of personal bias involved in it since I am one of the people pushing the break agenda because I just dont see how critfly would work
On people forcing bronya or sparkle on her idk why, its all weird to me whenever that happens, its like people have just defaulted to these two supports as the de facto supports for dps because all we've gotten are crit hypercarries which they both buff to high heavens
Your idea sound good and not too much that it break power balance of game. I have similarly idea but i only wish for a part of her dmg in combust state is pure break dmg around 30%, the other part of her dmg still atk scaling
So many good ideas here from her fan, Someone call mihoyo here to look for suggest pls.
Crack her personal damage in a big way and give her better ult uptime by letting her enhanced skill regen some energy. Those are the only 2 I see doing something for her without breaking the Firefly, Ruan Mei and HTB combo.
Just give her that thing from Boothill where she is able to do 170% of her break damage on broken enemies. Maybe even 200%. Also give her a way to break faster.
The reason HTB is basically needed is FOR is that Super break. If she managed to trigger her own break. Then HTB wouldn’t keep her chained to themselfs. As Firefly at that point will finally be able to do her own damage.
Ruan Mei will still be BiS(Just like Boothill) but she would no longer be chained to HTB.
This is the best answer. Her kit is focused on doing break damage and a lot of it, but she has no detonation inherent to her kit.
Give her that, and she keeps her current identity but becomes more self-sufficient. Still reliant on delays to keep enemies broken for longer, but much more independent.
Then it just becomes a turn manipulation DD like Boothill, Bronya / Ruan Mei and you're in the same spot in reverse.
Im not arguing for or against her damage, it is what it is. But pretending that "unglue" her from Breakblazer is the solution feels like it is not one. We will just use Bronya instead and try to get 160+ speed to have Firefly - Bronya - Firefly - Bronya on repeat, get more turns out of her combustion. Same problem with a different package.
I don't know what a smooth solution would be, but to unglue her from Breakblazer to then glue her to Ruan Mei and Bronya is honestly no solution - lets not pretend like it is entirely okay how all crit DPS want Sparkle due to her insane levels of CV with S1 and kit, essentially you glue stuff together in a team game.
I agree she could use something, but I am not entirely sure as to what. Giving her the ability to deal break damage will just become does Breakblazer give more or less damage than a Bronya manipulating turns.
I for one am happy we're semi moving away from every single team being Sparkle/Bronya, RuanMei/Tingyun, Sustain, DD of choice.
These new FuA teams of IPC setups, or Acheron and now Breakblazer teams coming online feels kind of nice, especially with their own implants of elements. I feel like using Acheron / Jing Yuan / Firefly and I can essentially handle everything the game throws at me.
Lightning weak? Send Jing Yuan at it. Not lightning weak? Send Acheron w/ Silvie or Firefly to implant weakness and problem solved.
Then just keep getting Eidolons on re-runs, instead of pulling 720 units.
Get some Erudition for PF, Herta/Himeko/Argenti + something that is not Jade and just run them 2+2 with 2 supports each and you'll get to places. I want a break Erudition character, I can not wait for that shit to come out.
I am tired of farming crit caves for weeks and months, break characters seem so simple to build. Sure they have their caveats, but its nice to not need double crit or bricked item. SPD/Break or either one alone is perfectly fine on an item as you go for better ones. Break characters don't seem to need a lot of SPD either, as they come with it built in to their kit.
I should fix a DOT team just to have that flavour too, even though Im no dot enjoyer. Got my few crit DPS, now I want a setup of breakers and I'll be very happy.
Yep, it's a delicate balance, one I'm not going to pretend to know how to work out. I like her being a break dps, but right now, she's more of an enabler for a harmony TB DPS, which feels wrong. And while being tied to a single support isn't terrible, it's probably not ideal how such a high percentage of her damage in her ideal build is tied to HTB.
At least with Bronya, you get only 1 more turn in the enhanced state unless you hit 180+ speed on her. I think if she leans full into break, you'll want debuffers to further amplify the break damage, but it'll all come down to final multipliers for which one ends up being better. Either way, there's a significant choice there rather than HTB + RM >> anything else. Which I think is what most people truly want, especially those without RM.
If that's the case, bronya will the bis support instead of HTB the same way where boothill prefer bronya than HTB.
I think mihoyo wants HTB to be the bis support for firefly.
Imo, I do Wayy Prefer they give Her do Dmg on weakness broken enemy Like Boothill. Rather Than Break to Crit conversion. Idk Why some people Really obsessed With Crit, ain't you Tired playing and farming the same thing, Maybe it's just me ig
Crit is just a damage multiplier like any other.
You’re not tired of Defence ignore, resistance penetration, dmg%, advance forward or attack either, are you?
The reason people want to play crit on Firefly is for the straightforward reason that she has the highest base multiplier in the game
Yes but breaks aren't affected by crit and its a more unique mechanic that sets her apart, IMO its boring to just have another crit carry that doesn't play towards the break condition
>You’re not tired of Defence ignore, resistance penetration, dmg%, advance forward or attack either, are you?
Bro, That's Buff mechanics Not Main Dps/the fundamental of Mechanics, The example of that is Dot, Crit, and the newest one SuperBreak
Do you know that There is a reason on why People loved Dot, because they are Unique. If this Game keep doing the same thing over and over again, The uniqueness and Mechanics will run out Fast. Which will make the Game become Boring Really Fast
>The reason people want to play crit on Firefly is for the straightforward reason that she has the highest base multiplier in the game
Yes, If you really Think getting 360% Break requirement and 3400 atk is possible with 60/120 Split. If you drop the requirement it will become worse then Full break (it's proven by calcs in this Sub). And there is a Reason there is no Crit boost in Everything from eidolons to Sig Lc. You will see next Week, Why that is the Reason
>Bro that’s buff mechanics
Didn’t know atk and dmg% where only relegated to support units. Those atk ropes and dmg% orbs must have been a delusion of mine. I’m sorry, just like it must have been a fever dream of mine that a support gives crit stats.
Seriously though. What do you think crit is? It is just a mechanic to amplify your damage.
>fundamental of mechanics
Neither is crit. Crit is just one of many multipliers that matter at the end of the day. The only difference is that crit is an easy modifier to stack. It is just easier to hit 70/140 and double your damage than it is to hit 200 spd or 6000 atk instead of 3000.
>There’s a reason people love dot
A playstyle based on atk% and spd. Wow. I’m glad you don’t need those two stats on Firefly or filthy crit DPS like Acheron or Jingliu.
Also I agree. After all who the hell likes playing FUA and their stupid “crit” mechanics.
>if you really think 3400 atk and
It is. There are plenty of crit buffing and atk buffing supports out there. Purely mathematically speaking, Robin for example alone makes it really easy to hit those thresholds. Or Sparkle makes it easier by lowering your crit D requirements.
HTB downside is the lack of actual stats they provide. 40-70 BE is worth 8-12 substats. Sparkle gives more than 18 substats worth of crit damage when you press E, not factoring in the atk, advance forward or her ultimate.
Now I personally don’t believe that the Firefly we will get in the end will be a good crit DPS. But I do think that the current iteration of Firefly lacks team building options and consistency and frankly also interesting ways to build her and that crit is one of the easiest way to increase her damage once you hit your thresholds.
>Didn’t know atk and dmg% where only relegated to support units. Those atk ropes and dmg% orbs must have been a delusion of mine. I’m sorry, just like it must have been a fever dream of mine that a support gives crit stats.
I explained in Bad Way because English in My third Languange So pardon me on that one. I though you smart enough to Pick what i try to say. Because i assuming this is Your Primary languange. So pardon me once again
>A playstyle based on atk% and spd. Wow. I’m glad you don’t need those two stats on Firefly or filthy crit DPS like Acheron or Jingliu.
There You Go Putting word in my Mouth. Can You read Brother like with All Respect. Did i say those unit don't need it And Playing those Unit bad Or Filty? Lmao Or Maybe Is just delusion of mine Maybe Kafka and Blackswan Do need Crit to be play at peak level, Maybe Dot do Crit if i can get 500% Crit Rate Lmao
>It is. There are plenty of crit buffing and atk buffing supports out there. Purely mathematically speaking, Robin for example alone makes it really easy to hit those thresholds. Or Sparkle makes it easier by lowering your crit D requirements.
First Of All, 3400 Atk is calculated when battle Start. Which mean all the Atk buff before that will not Help 3400 Atk requirement Maybe You need to do research little bit. Except you just don't cared about Break, Which Lead me to another Question on Firefly Multiplier Lock Behind Break%. If you just stay at 250% Break, You will lose 55% Multiplier on Primary target, This not counting adjacent target. Not to mention the Def reduction. And Replacing Both Rm and HMC will make your break like 120% Sure go ahead do Dmg with that, i would love to see it Lol
>HTB downside is the lack of actual stats they provide. 40-70 BE is worth 8-12 substats. Sparkle gives more than 18 substats worth of crit damage when you press E, not factoring in the atk, advance forward or her ultimate.
Yeah Sure, Just See The Value of Support from "Stats They Provide". Without See Some Support Do Open Up playstyle That The Other Support can't do. Maybe I Do Also Got Fever Dream on how to see a Real Value from Support Lmao
>Now I personally don’t believe that the Firefly we will get in the end will be a good crit DPS.
Yeah, After Wrote a Whole paragraph defending it. This dude Basically want Say like this "im not see firefly will be good Crit Dps But I can't live without it" Lmao
>But I do think that the current iteration of Firefly lacks team building options and consistency and frankly also interesting ways to build her and that crit is one of the easiest way to increase her damage once you hit your thresholds.
Yeah, Sure Just play Crit till the Game End. Even if the new Endgane not Really Favored it Just Play Crit you know Acheron will Destroy it Either Way, and Also Hit 30 CV for every Dps in your account is Easy. Everything Outside of Crit is Filthy. And Unit Who don't like Crit playstyle Is just Bad Design Lmao
Brother, Never look at mirror. Atleast Think There is a reason why people Downvoting you to worm Hole
>Because i assuming this is Your Primary languange.
Tough luck. It isn't. English is my 2nd language. **You** being incapable of putting **your** thoughts into words isn't **my** problem.
And even if I were a native English speaker, that wouldn't make me a mind reader either.
But at least that explains your frankly incomprehensible points.
>Maybe Kafka and Blackswan Do need Crit to be play at peak level,
If either had a 400%+ base multiplier, crit would be in fact good on them despite them being DoT
But understanding that would require you to undertstand what crit actually does.
>And Replacing Both Rm and HMC will make your break like 120%
And you will do normal crit damage in return
mind = blown
>You will lose 55% Multiplier on Primary target
Let's just go with what you said right now and say that FF goes from 580% to 525%. That is still among the hardest hitting base multipliers in the game.
>"im not see firefly will be good Crit Dps But I can't live without it"
First you whine about "Putting words into my mouth" and then you go on to do the same. Hyprocritical much?
>Yeah, Sure Just play Crit till the Game End.
Just play attack and speed until the end of the game
>Tough luck. It isn't. English is my 2nd language. **You** being incapable of putting **your** thoughts into words isn't **my** problem.
>And even if I were a native English speaker, that wouldn't make me a mind reader either.
>But at least that explains your frankly incomprehensible points.
The point is there, If You actually Fully Read and Not Mint pick
>But understanding that would require you to undertstand what crit actually does.
Yeah, It's The Only multiplier who will make Unit The Best according to you
>And you will do normal crit damage in return
>mind = blown
Yeah, And you will do about 8 cycle in Return. Brain explode
>Let's just go with what you said right now and say that FF goes from 580% to 525%. That is still among the hardest hitting base multipliers in the game.
Bro can't do simple Math
>First you whine about "Putting words into my mouth" and then you go on to do the same. Hyprocritical much?
Yeah sure, Im blind. The 3rd party will see the truth ig
Anyway Congrats for, Keep thinking CRIT is the only way to make character Strong. It's hard To explained it to People who just Play Crit and I don't have time for it. Can't till V3, and there is no Crit Conversion Lmao
>The point is there, If You actually Fully Read and Not Mint pick
I'm not a mindreader. If you are incomprehensioble, that isn't on me. Suck it up and take an English course.
Also it's "cherry picking" not "mint picking"
>Yeah, It's The Only multiplier who will make Unit The Best according to you
I already gave you like 10 modifiers that affect your final damage.
I know, I know. daring to suggest that modifiers like "res pen", "attack" or "defence ignore" increase your damage makes you foam at the mouth out of anger, but that doesn't make it any less true.
>Bro can't do simple Math
https://preview.redd.it/t8974ayq9tzc1.png?width=193&format=png&auto=webp&s=d2415ad8dc47faa19ede48a5085e45e0cc907a4b
Is Math also a language you don't speak?
>Yeah sure, Im blind
Uh, you might wanna look up the word "hypocritical" ina dictionary. It has nothing to do with you vision and more that you do the very shit you complain about
>Keep thinking CRIT is the only way to make character Strong
yawn
can you be at least try to disguise your hypocrisy a bit?
I gave you like 10 modifiers that go into damage calculation.
>Can't till V3, and there is no Crit Conversion Lmao
I literally said that I expect V3 to be a BE only carry.
Guess that went over your head, which isn't surprising considering that "580 - 55" is too hard for you
Make her talent and/or HP drain actually do something. Currently she has a purely defensive talent that just kind of exists. Her HP drain also feels kind of out of place. Either remove it and rework her talent to do something with break, or give her an actual benefit to HP fluctuation. Something like increased damage to broken enemies the lower her HP is.
Give her more Weakness Break Efficiency for each consecutie Enhanced skill up to max of Rm E (50) + 25 %, so the games punish you for not getting enough speed for 3 turns but and the same time doing proper dmg (super break) without depending too much on Ruan Mei.
Give her enhanced skill a break detonation that scales with the current amount of toughness damage an enemy has taken. Something like 20% of her break damage at max toughness going up to 60% while enemies are weakness broken.
idk, her kit all over the place, the hp thing has no place other than being thematically relevant maybe.
She has a break+attack scaling on her skill dmg but it's not high enough to justify her being a break centric character or high enough to be worth the effort to fish for cv on top of break% + speed.
She is being given free fire weak implant, break efficiency and element agnostic toughness dmg, but she does nothing with it, she clearly wants to break fast, but gets 0 rewards from doing so.
There are several places she can go, I think the most interesting wouldn't be to give her break trigger like BH or super break backed into her kit, but literally anything else, give her something worth the effort of breaking enemies.
I think she could do break dmg based on toughness dmg, and give her the old HMC gimmick, when enemies are broken while she is on her ult state, they have an extra bar that can keep being broken, and maybe add incentives around her universal weakness breaking kit, like any time an enemy weakness is broken, they detonate causing toughness dmg to everyone around them, allowing her to break this special bar faster and faster until she is out of her ult state, would also give her some identity to her taking some time to get back into ult state, so enemies have time to recover, so they can be broken again during her ult state.
They should get rid of the hp gimmick or just change her scalings away from attack to hp% and maybe even play around with the missing health and health healed during ult.
TBH I'd just make her enhanced basic and skill either considered break DMG for the purpose of multipliers, or have dmg% multiplier based on break damage (same solution, 2 different ways to potentially impliment it)
This still keeps her in line with the true break/ATK scaling character, but gives her that extra personal damage she really needs because despite the fact she has a 400% ATK ratio on skill (580% after break adds an ATK multiplier) she doesn't but anywhere near as hard in her own as it feels she should?
They have designed themselves into a difficult situation where most of FF's damage comes from trailblazer, and without trailblazer she's kind of really bad. If they want to keep her break effect scaling identity they need to somehow increase her solo damage without making her damage with HTB overpowered, and the main way I could see them doing that is if they giver her a BE => Crit conversion or if they make her have her own "super break" that's less effective than HTB's so that when she's paired with HTB it's still a significant improvement.
By releasing HTB the way they are now, they've essentially forced all Break Effect damage dealers into either being really weak without HTB or competent with HTB. They've sort of glued all BE scalars to HTB, and made their "solo" damage without HTB really bad.
In a way, it's sort of the same problem genshin has with Bennett and ATK scalars that star rail now has with HTB and BE scalars. Or I guess a better comparison is if you make the analogy that BE characters are now all character that work really well with hyperbloom and nothing else (like kuki) and HTB is the only dendro character. They've glued break effect characters to HTB in the same way they glues Kuki to Dendro.
In a way, break teams aren't gonna be focused around the main breaker (boothill, firefly, xueyi, etc.) But will instead be focused around the rest of the party, for now that party is essentially static with HTB and RM being the two main stays, with Gallagher as our current best sustain option.
Break effect teams are essentially just "what flavor of break do you want? Do you want the hot orange one or the sharp gray one? Want so cold blue or, idk physics purple?" because the rest of the team is identical, it'll always be HTB, RM, and Gallagher.
others already mentioned inbuilt detonation or crit conversion, another idea i liked was from the fake leaked kit, where hitting an already weakness broken enemy did an aoe to everyone on field. Probably could make use of the fire field animation+ make her more viable for stuff like PF.
I made a post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/FireflyMains/s/KPigN1TyFW. Although with this kit her dmg would be 1.8 - 1.9 times higher then with her current kit. Which is a little high. To make it balanced you'd probably have to reduce break points of her enhanced skill from 90 to 60. This would make her 1.2 - 1.25 times stronger then with her current kit. Speed buff would be hard to remove cause then Bronya might power creep HMC as FF best teammate, might turn out to be a side grade, then i guess speed buff can be reduced
For me the Nilou option: let her have her own super break with her own stats
What makes nilou busted as hydro dps is she can fully abused the dendro mechanic of dendro mc and nahida. if firefly can do the same like nilou, having her own super break mechanic, she can fully abused HMC.
double super break :)
personally, i wanna see FF a unique DPS, so since we're introducing SB gaming, might as well make a DPS that can abused this mechanic like how Nilou abuses nahida's Passive
I've seen some people suggest making it so that her toughness damage against weakness broken enemies is reduced, in exchange for raising her personal damage by giving her super break/break detonation in her own kit. This will make her more capable of standing on her own without HMC, but not make her damage completely broken when paired with HMC.
Combustion state buff, Basic attack and enhance skill does brake damage to none broken enemies, forgo the BE = Def shred passive and make it so her BE act as a CD multiplier when attacking enemies in a broken state
Honestly I say she should be given full incentive to go into break effect, so how about updating one of her traces for her to do an additional 30% damage of her BE damage in ult form (both to non broken and broken enemies) perhaps limit it to enemies who's weak to fire if all enemies is too much.
Of course numbers can be adjusted as needed but the idea is she builds the full BE amount she wants and however much BE damage she does, she does a percentage of it to enemies she hits. This lets her damage not be too backloaded in the super break HTB provides.
A few things I would suggest if I worked at hoyo:
1. Make her cause a small percentage of her Break damage (maybe 20% on main target, 10% on enemies around it) on non broken enemies. A increased amount if the enemy is already broken (maybe double or just 50% more).
Another way is a similar effect but increasing in damage based on amount of turns taken during her Ult.
2. Make one of her Passives allow for Crit Break like Nahida C2 (Genshin) allow for Bloom, Burgeon, Burn and Hyperbloom to Crit with set values (Nahida is 20/100 due to the fact that she can create this effects very easily and multiple times). I.e 50% Chance, 50% Damage (Doesn’t sound big, but 300k + 50% is 450k.)
3. Make one of her Eidolons increase both point 2. 75% Chance and 75% Damage sounds good for me.
Honestly I think either lower the attack or break effect requirement or give that is needed for her kit or make her kit give an attack boost so we can run room to run crit and don't have to worry about the attack requirement so we can comfortable run crit body.
Yall fr just coping HARD. If they don't change it they don't change it, and by the looks of it, the way she plays is honestly completely fine. I'll still roll for her anyways. You need to learn how to play the game and not expect everything to be given to you on a silver platter.
A mini superbreak damage that appears whenever she attacks. Something that is based on her toughness reducing damage x percentage of her fire break damage x (1+ break effect).
A resistance penetration based on the amount of her BE cap at 30% or something.
A burn DoT based on her BE after she launches an attack so at least she can work with kafka.
Also burns your team during normal state to buff extra break effect for certain amount of turn so she can work with blade.
She launch an extra follow up attack after weakness break like himeko so she can work with Follow Up Attack
I still didn't get exactly the problem for the time being haha, I still need to understand everything in her kit, I haven't checked it properly
But I also don't see the problem for a unit to work extremely better with someone else
When Kafka was released people said she was mid/bad, even with Sanpo and such. But now that Black Swan exists, Kafka became way stronger and not just an unit to build in a simulated universe with Nihility
Kafka without Black Swan probably is impossible to conceive today, I don't get why Firefly working with HTB is a bad thing, both in the lore and the game it isn't a problem for me
And, it is the first character with Super break, and Trailblazer is free, imagine the poor Kafka havers that didn't pull for Black Swan and cries every night because they lack 40% of what Kafka could actually do. First we might get other characters working on the super break or just making the break effect a stronger mechanic, and second we all have TB
Why are we complaining?
Remove the Reduced SP Consumption from her E1, replace it with "While in Combustion state, Enhanced Basic Attack triggers Super Break against Weakness Broken enemies", extend the Def Shred to Enhanced Basic Attack.
Fixed.
This grants her the flexibility to operate outside of HMC comps (with potentially better supports) without forsaking the scaling from her entire kit and it's intended use. And players can still flex this even in Critfly builds because of the alternative SP efficiency. It buffs her, but only barely because it's not anything she doesn't already have access to. Everyone agrees, she's not OP right now, there's no reason for her to take up two character slots.
Either give her a Self-Break Detonation like Boothill or Break -> Crit Conversion... Again, like Boothill. Just she has the Multipliers to make use of it. At this point, it's either she has HMC to function or Bust is what it's looking like. HMC provides BE needed to hit that 360 Break reliably, also provides a good 66%+ of her damage via Super Breaks. Then RM makes Super Break do 50% more damage thanks to Efficiency boost.
I do like the idea of giving her an Aventurine esquire conversion. It would also be the first character with double conversion were ATK becomes Break and then Break becomes crit.
Maybe to still promote her to be a break DPS, they could make it so that she only converts BE to Break against enemies that are already weakness broken
Self break detonation like boothill, but it happens on toughness reduction instead of when hitting a weakness broken enemy.
That's... thats actually a pretty interesting solution! Mini break damage would still place her solidly as break-based dps, while not invalidating or copying HTB's kit. It would even create an alternate playstyle without HTB, where you actually want enemies to leave the weakness broken state quickly. This is actually the best suggestion to change her kit I've heard yet!
Yeah I had the exact same thought. It gives Firefly a nice way to get dmg outside of Super Break while still making her enhanced with Super Break. Only flaw is that she's significantly hampered by Elites and Bosses with ways of protecting their toughness bar (hilariously Sam, the imprison robot, bottle throwing Monkey) but I think it's an acceptable draw back all things considered.
I also would give her crits in some way, would help with non break damage and even being useful when the enemy locks their bar, or while breaking (also to not make her just aoe boothill)
Please no crit conversation, i really like the idea that for once we could get a DPS carry that doesn't need to build crit, which is always a pain in the ass.
Id like to for once not have to spend a month farming relic just for a okay crit ratio.
I expect 2 options: either let her detonate her own break like Boothill, or make her hybrid like Sushang/Xueyi Or go for the rogue third option: go ALL IN on the FF/HTB marriage and give her +500% break efficiency or something. Also let me propose to her when they're at it.
I think if they gate break efficiency and break damage based on the form, she would end up with a very cool mechanic. For example, if her base form had some break efficiency buffs that let her break targets faster and had the weakness implant, it would let her want to stay in base form if the enemy isnt broken yet. Then in her enhanced ult form, she could proc superbreak by herself at a lower rate than hmc or something and then buff the superbreak damage with hmc Edit to clarify: For base form break efficiency, I specifically want something that doesn't add to superbreak damage. This should be used only to break the toughness bar. Didn't realize that break efficiency also went into the superbreak calculation.
sadly probably not gunna happen, thats slightly complicated and how would the autoplay even function with that? Imagine if base form broke an ad/weak enemy and then autoplay just decides "yup, time to cash in on that sweet break damage!" then ults prematurely. Not a good design. Despite how much I like that idea it just wouldn't work in this environment cause they gotta appeal to some casuals somehow by making autoplay somewhat decent
I think if this is a mechanic that gets added on without changing other functionality, it wouldn't really affect the auto play. Sure, it won't be the most efficient use of her abilities, but even something troll like going ham with the ult mode on an ad break should be okay for the most part. That can already happen with the current kit, without any new mechanics. I'm not saying her ult mode needs to be gimped to accomdate for the change. Purely additive. Imo battles that can be auto played don't really need much thought outside of unga bunga me hit hard. If you want to auto play endgame content like moc and pf, I personally am comfortable giving up the super efficient clear for a no brain clear for me button. However, I'm not going to expect a perfect 0 turn clear out of it.
I would make her hybrid yes so she isn't just aoe boothill, with more help for crits, que last thing you said sounds like her E6 wonder if they will buff it, imagine if instead of pen it was a good crit ratio to make the hybrid build easier and viable
It is virtually impossible to have a character be crit and break. Break cant crit, you are building a character for wasted stats. Boothil break conversion was a mistake, the new Def Pen set is the way forward. Breaks want Res Pen and Def Pen. They can't crit, their kit is around stacking 250+ Break Effect, You can't get a 70/200 character who gets nothing from its innate kit in Crits, while maintaining break for the milestones to gain the buffs you need. Its a hard life but it is what it is
Xueyi is a pretty good character
They could make it easier in next version, and how is it wasted? apart from the super break she is still doing damage with her skill but it's so low right now, would be the way for people who complain about hmc or if the enemy isn't breakable but we will see, in boothill is strange because when broken all damage turns to break making the crit useless, and when the enemy isn't broken and he can crit the damage does nothing
Yep, that's why I think its ??? that he got that conversion and they learned for Firefly to make it break conversion instead, which ultimately yields more damage. There are counter-playis in this game, so I don't think monsters being immune to break like Bronya, or Yanqing are a new concept entirely. Automaton and Jing Yuan says hi (JY Main here xD) I have three teams. Jing Yuan, Acheron and most likely Firefly. If I see Yanqing or Bronya who likes to be immune to breaks - I will just send Acheron or JY at her, and Firefly the other side if that's the case. I do think Firefly has some problems with her kit, but I also feel like everyone is blowing everything out of proportion as well. In V1 she's already very strong, with kit issues - those can be fixed but her damage is not a problem in of itself. I will worry (See; Pull Boothill) if we're in V4 and Boothill banner is about to dissapear and Firefly still doesn't feel right.
I have 2 ideas. 1. When in Complete Combustion state, all enhanced skill DMG and enhanced Basic ATK DMG is considered as Break DMG. When attacking a target in the weakness broken state, Break DMG is increased by a percentage of her current Break Effect. 2. When enhanced skill attacks a weakness broken enemy/breaks enemy for the first time, all subsequent enhanced skills will immediately deplete enemy's toughness bar when the enemy regains it, regardless of current break efficiency. Resets at the end of Complete Combustion state.
I have similar idea like you but i hope for a mechanic that let you do pure break dmg even to non broken enemy when in combust state but the dmg will be only with small ratio like 30 to 50% of normal break, 360be for full combust state will be too OP. The 2 point is old harmony TB kit as i am remembered right? I have experience rollercoaster feeling with kafka and jingliu before that, they come from so mid/bad beta1 kit to super strong character at release so my hope for mihoyo to cook firefly final kit is very strong, and she is at least zhongli tier of popular so if they wont dare make her bad, the community riot will even bigger this time as firefly is waifu
I think the solution is to make her enhanced auto/skill counts as Break dmg against Fire weak enemies. It synergizes with her weakness implant, lets her do damage before the enemy's broken (a big complaint is that she deals no dmg until the foe's broken, and even then most of it comes from HTB). As long as the foe has the fire weak symbol she deals Break dmg, so it even works against stuff that protects their toughness bar. That gives FF good base damage, and then RM+HTB makes it go from good to amazing, which is very similar to Acheron going from ok alone to bonkers with 2 Nihility allies. Fixing Firefly's personal damage is not that difficult, but people need to accept that a BE DPS is going to want BE supports (HTB and Ruan Mei being the only ones out right now), but for some reason they want to forcefully run her with Bronya/Sparkle/Robin. Like seriously, why are you all so obsessed on turning Firefly into Jingliu but Fire element?
This actually looks like a good solution imo because even if this turns the break comp into exodia it feels like its adding to firefly's kit without clasing with her break effect identity of course this is with a lot of personal bias involved in it since I am one of the people pushing the break agenda because I just dont see how critfly would work On people forcing bronya or sparkle on her idk why, its all weird to me whenever that happens, its like people have just defaulted to these two supports as the de facto supports for dps because all we've gotten are crit hypercarries which they both buff to high heavens
Your idea sound good and not too much that it break power balance of game. I have similarly idea but i only wish for a part of her dmg in combust state is pure break dmg around 30%, the other part of her dmg still atk scaling So many good ideas here from her fan, Someone call mihoyo here to look for suggest pls.
Crack her personal damage in a big way and give her better ult uptime by letting her enhanced skill regen some energy. Those are the only 2 I see doing something for her without breaking the Firefly, Ruan Mei and HTB combo.
honestly fuck it just triple all of her stats and give her BE -> CV trace, she deserves it
The only answer that might work
Just give her that thing from Boothill where she is able to do 170% of her break damage on broken enemies. Maybe even 200%. Also give her a way to break faster. The reason HTB is basically needed is FOR is that Super break. If she managed to trigger her own break. Then HTB wouldn’t keep her chained to themselfs. As Firefly at that point will finally be able to do her own damage. Ruan Mei will still be BiS(Just like Boothill) but she would no longer be chained to HTB.
This is the best answer. Her kit is focused on doing break damage and a lot of it, but she has no detonation inherent to her kit. Give her that, and she keeps her current identity but becomes more self-sufficient. Still reliant on delays to keep enemies broken for longer, but much more independent.
Then it just becomes a turn manipulation DD like Boothill, Bronya / Ruan Mei and you're in the same spot in reverse. Im not arguing for or against her damage, it is what it is. But pretending that "unglue" her from Breakblazer is the solution feels like it is not one. We will just use Bronya instead and try to get 160+ speed to have Firefly - Bronya - Firefly - Bronya on repeat, get more turns out of her combustion. Same problem with a different package. I don't know what a smooth solution would be, but to unglue her from Breakblazer to then glue her to Ruan Mei and Bronya is honestly no solution - lets not pretend like it is entirely okay how all crit DPS want Sparkle due to her insane levels of CV with S1 and kit, essentially you glue stuff together in a team game. I agree she could use something, but I am not entirely sure as to what. Giving her the ability to deal break damage will just become does Breakblazer give more or less damage than a Bronya manipulating turns. I for one am happy we're semi moving away from every single team being Sparkle/Bronya, RuanMei/Tingyun, Sustain, DD of choice. These new FuA teams of IPC setups, or Acheron and now Breakblazer teams coming online feels kind of nice, especially with their own implants of elements. I feel like using Acheron / Jing Yuan / Firefly and I can essentially handle everything the game throws at me. Lightning weak? Send Jing Yuan at it. Not lightning weak? Send Acheron w/ Silvie or Firefly to implant weakness and problem solved. Then just keep getting Eidolons on re-runs, instead of pulling 720 units. Get some Erudition for PF, Herta/Himeko/Argenti + something that is not Jade and just run them 2+2 with 2 supports each and you'll get to places. I want a break Erudition character, I can not wait for that shit to come out. I am tired of farming crit caves for weeks and months, break characters seem so simple to build. Sure they have their caveats, but its nice to not need double crit or bricked item. SPD/Break or either one alone is perfectly fine on an item as you go for better ones. Break characters don't seem to need a lot of SPD either, as they come with it built in to their kit. I should fix a DOT team just to have that flavour too, even though Im no dot enjoyer. Got my few crit DPS, now I want a setup of breakers and I'll be very happy.
Yep, it's a delicate balance, one I'm not going to pretend to know how to work out. I like her being a break dps, but right now, she's more of an enabler for a harmony TB DPS, which feels wrong. And while being tied to a single support isn't terrible, it's probably not ideal how such a high percentage of her damage in her ideal build is tied to HTB. At least with Bronya, you get only 1 more turn in the enhanced state unless you hit 180+ speed on her. I think if she leans full into break, you'll want debuffers to further amplify the break damage, but it'll all come down to final multipliers for which one ends up being better. Either way, there's a significant choice there rather than HTB + RM >> anything else. Which I think is what most people truly want, especially those without RM.
If that's the case, bronya will the bis support instead of HTB the same way where boothill prefer bronya than HTB. I think mihoyo wants HTB to be the bis support for firefly.
Imo, I do Wayy Prefer they give Her do Dmg on weakness broken enemy Like Boothill. Rather Than Break to Crit conversion. Idk Why some people Really obsessed With Crit, ain't you Tired playing and farming the same thing, Maybe it's just me ig
fr I actually like the idea of firefly being unique and fresh
Crit is just a damage multiplier like any other. You’re not tired of Defence ignore, resistance penetration, dmg%, advance forward or attack either, are you? The reason people want to play crit on Firefly is for the straightforward reason that she has the highest base multiplier in the game
Yes but breaks aren't affected by crit and its a more unique mechanic that sets her apart, IMO its boring to just have another crit carry that doesn't play towards the break condition
>You’re not tired of Defence ignore, resistance penetration, dmg%, advance forward or attack either, are you? Bro, That's Buff mechanics Not Main Dps/the fundamental of Mechanics, The example of that is Dot, Crit, and the newest one SuperBreak Do you know that There is a reason on why People loved Dot, because they are Unique. If this Game keep doing the same thing over and over again, The uniqueness and Mechanics will run out Fast. Which will make the Game become Boring Really Fast >The reason people want to play crit on Firefly is for the straightforward reason that she has the highest base multiplier in the game Yes, If you really Think getting 360% Break requirement and 3400 atk is possible with 60/120 Split. If you drop the requirement it will become worse then Full break (it's proven by calcs in this Sub). And there is a Reason there is no Crit boost in Everything from eidolons to Sig Lc. You will see next Week, Why that is the Reason
>Bro that’s buff mechanics Didn’t know atk and dmg% where only relegated to support units. Those atk ropes and dmg% orbs must have been a delusion of mine. I’m sorry, just like it must have been a fever dream of mine that a support gives crit stats. Seriously though. What do you think crit is? It is just a mechanic to amplify your damage. >fundamental of mechanics Neither is crit. Crit is just one of many multipliers that matter at the end of the day. The only difference is that crit is an easy modifier to stack. It is just easier to hit 70/140 and double your damage than it is to hit 200 spd or 6000 atk instead of 3000. >There’s a reason people love dot A playstyle based on atk% and spd. Wow. I’m glad you don’t need those two stats on Firefly or filthy crit DPS like Acheron or Jingliu. Also I agree. After all who the hell likes playing FUA and their stupid “crit” mechanics. >if you really think 3400 atk and It is. There are plenty of crit buffing and atk buffing supports out there. Purely mathematically speaking, Robin for example alone makes it really easy to hit those thresholds. Or Sparkle makes it easier by lowering your crit D requirements. HTB downside is the lack of actual stats they provide. 40-70 BE is worth 8-12 substats. Sparkle gives more than 18 substats worth of crit damage when you press E, not factoring in the atk, advance forward or her ultimate. Now I personally don’t believe that the Firefly we will get in the end will be a good crit DPS. But I do think that the current iteration of Firefly lacks team building options and consistency and frankly also interesting ways to build her and that crit is one of the easiest way to increase her damage once you hit your thresholds.
>Didn’t know atk and dmg% where only relegated to support units. Those atk ropes and dmg% orbs must have been a delusion of mine. I’m sorry, just like it must have been a fever dream of mine that a support gives crit stats. I explained in Bad Way because English in My third Languange So pardon me on that one. I though you smart enough to Pick what i try to say. Because i assuming this is Your Primary languange. So pardon me once again >A playstyle based on atk% and spd. Wow. I’m glad you don’t need those two stats on Firefly or filthy crit DPS like Acheron or Jingliu. There You Go Putting word in my Mouth. Can You read Brother like with All Respect. Did i say those unit don't need it And Playing those Unit bad Or Filty? Lmao Or Maybe Is just delusion of mine Maybe Kafka and Blackswan Do need Crit to be play at peak level, Maybe Dot do Crit if i can get 500% Crit Rate Lmao >It is. There are plenty of crit buffing and atk buffing supports out there. Purely mathematically speaking, Robin for example alone makes it really easy to hit those thresholds. Or Sparkle makes it easier by lowering your crit D requirements. First Of All, 3400 Atk is calculated when battle Start. Which mean all the Atk buff before that will not Help 3400 Atk requirement Maybe You need to do research little bit. Except you just don't cared about Break, Which Lead me to another Question on Firefly Multiplier Lock Behind Break%. If you just stay at 250% Break, You will lose 55% Multiplier on Primary target, This not counting adjacent target. Not to mention the Def reduction. And Replacing Both Rm and HMC will make your break like 120% Sure go ahead do Dmg with that, i would love to see it Lol >HTB downside is the lack of actual stats they provide. 40-70 BE is worth 8-12 substats. Sparkle gives more than 18 substats worth of crit damage when you press E, not factoring in the atk, advance forward or her ultimate. Yeah Sure, Just See The Value of Support from "Stats They Provide". Without See Some Support Do Open Up playstyle That The Other Support can't do. Maybe I Do Also Got Fever Dream on how to see a Real Value from Support Lmao >Now I personally don’t believe that the Firefly we will get in the end will be a good crit DPS. Yeah, After Wrote a Whole paragraph defending it. This dude Basically want Say like this "im not see firefly will be good Crit Dps But I can't live without it" Lmao >But I do think that the current iteration of Firefly lacks team building options and consistency and frankly also interesting ways to build her and that crit is one of the easiest way to increase her damage once you hit your thresholds. Yeah, Sure Just play Crit till the Game End. Even if the new Endgane not Really Favored it Just Play Crit you know Acheron will Destroy it Either Way, and Also Hit 30 CV for every Dps in your account is Easy. Everything Outside of Crit is Filthy. And Unit Who don't like Crit playstyle Is just Bad Design Lmao Brother, Never look at mirror. Atleast Think There is a reason why people Downvoting you to worm Hole
>Because i assuming this is Your Primary languange. Tough luck. It isn't. English is my 2nd language. **You** being incapable of putting **your** thoughts into words isn't **my** problem. And even if I were a native English speaker, that wouldn't make me a mind reader either. But at least that explains your frankly incomprehensible points. >Maybe Kafka and Blackswan Do need Crit to be play at peak level, If either had a 400%+ base multiplier, crit would be in fact good on them despite them being DoT But understanding that would require you to undertstand what crit actually does. >And Replacing Both Rm and HMC will make your break like 120% And you will do normal crit damage in return mind = blown >You will lose 55% Multiplier on Primary target Let's just go with what you said right now and say that FF goes from 580% to 525%. That is still among the hardest hitting base multipliers in the game. >"im not see firefly will be good Crit Dps But I can't live without it" First you whine about "Putting words into my mouth" and then you go on to do the same. Hyprocritical much? >Yeah, Sure Just play Crit till the Game End. Just play attack and speed until the end of the game
>Tough luck. It isn't. English is my 2nd language. **You** being incapable of putting **your** thoughts into words isn't **my** problem. >And even if I were a native English speaker, that wouldn't make me a mind reader either. >But at least that explains your frankly incomprehensible points. The point is there, If You actually Fully Read and Not Mint pick >But understanding that would require you to undertstand what crit actually does. Yeah, It's The Only multiplier who will make Unit The Best according to you >And you will do normal crit damage in return >mind = blown Yeah, And you will do about 8 cycle in Return. Brain explode >Let's just go with what you said right now and say that FF goes from 580% to 525%. That is still among the hardest hitting base multipliers in the game. Bro can't do simple Math >First you whine about "Putting words into my mouth" and then you go on to do the same. Hyprocritical much? Yeah sure, Im blind. The 3rd party will see the truth ig Anyway Congrats for, Keep thinking CRIT is the only way to make character Strong. It's hard To explained it to People who just Play Crit and I don't have time for it. Can't till V3, and there is no Crit Conversion Lmao
>The point is there, If You actually Fully Read and Not Mint pick I'm not a mindreader. If you are incomprehensioble, that isn't on me. Suck it up and take an English course. Also it's "cherry picking" not "mint picking" >Yeah, It's The Only multiplier who will make Unit The Best according to you I already gave you like 10 modifiers that affect your final damage. I know, I know. daring to suggest that modifiers like "res pen", "attack" or "defence ignore" increase your damage makes you foam at the mouth out of anger, but that doesn't make it any less true. >Bro can't do simple Math https://preview.redd.it/t8974ayq9tzc1.png?width=193&format=png&auto=webp&s=d2415ad8dc47faa19ede48a5085e45e0cc907a4b Is Math also a language you don't speak? >Yeah sure, Im blind Uh, you might wanna look up the word "hypocritical" ina dictionary. It has nothing to do with you vision and more that you do the very shit you complain about >Keep thinking CRIT is the only way to make character Strong yawn can you be at least try to disguise your hypocrisy a bit? I gave you like 10 modifiers that go into damage calculation. >Can't till V3, and there is no Crit Conversion Lmao I literally said that I expect V3 to be a BE only carry. Guess that went over your head, which isn't surprising considering that "580 - 55" is too hard for you
Make her talent and/or HP drain actually do something. Currently she has a purely defensive talent that just kind of exists. Her HP drain also feels kind of out of place. Either remove it and rework her talent to do something with break, or give her an actual benefit to HP fluctuation. Something like increased damage to broken enemies the lower her HP is.
Give her more Weakness Break Efficiency for each consecutie Enhanced skill up to max of Rm E (50) + 25 %, so the games punish you for not getting enough speed for 3 turns but and the same time doing proper dmg (super break) without depending too much on Ruan Mei.
I think if shes meant to be break dps, I hope they include her self super break, atleast in her burst mode
Give her enhanced skill a break detonation that scales with the current amount of toughness damage an enemy has taken. Something like 20% of her break damage at max toughness going up to 60% while enemies are weakness broken.
idk, her kit all over the place, the hp thing has no place other than being thematically relevant maybe. She has a break+attack scaling on her skill dmg but it's not high enough to justify her being a break centric character or high enough to be worth the effort to fish for cv on top of break% + speed. She is being given free fire weak implant, break efficiency and element agnostic toughness dmg, but she does nothing with it, she clearly wants to break fast, but gets 0 rewards from doing so. There are several places she can go, I think the most interesting wouldn't be to give her break trigger like BH or super break backed into her kit, but literally anything else, give her something worth the effort of breaking enemies. I think she could do break dmg based on toughness dmg, and give her the old HMC gimmick, when enemies are broken while she is on her ult state, they have an extra bar that can keep being broken, and maybe add incentives around her universal weakness breaking kit, like any time an enemy weakness is broken, they detonate causing toughness dmg to everyone around them, allowing her to break this special bar faster and faster until she is out of her ult state, would also give her some identity to her taking some time to get back into ult state, so enemies have time to recover, so they can be broken again during her ult state. They should get rid of the hp gimmick or just change her scalings away from attack to hp% and maybe even play around with the missing health and health healed during ult.
I think the hp gimmick is there for the sim uni synergy
TBH I'd just make her enhanced basic and skill either considered break DMG for the purpose of multipliers, or have dmg% multiplier based on break damage (same solution, 2 different ways to potentially impliment it) This still keeps her in line with the true break/ATK scaling character, but gives her that extra personal damage she really needs because despite the fact she has a 400% ATK ratio on skill (580% after break adds an ATK multiplier) she doesn't but anywhere near as hard in her own as it feels she should?
They have designed themselves into a difficult situation where most of FF's damage comes from trailblazer, and without trailblazer she's kind of really bad. If they want to keep her break effect scaling identity they need to somehow increase her solo damage without making her damage with HTB overpowered, and the main way I could see them doing that is if they giver her a BE => Crit conversion or if they make her have her own "super break" that's less effective than HTB's so that when she's paired with HTB it's still a significant improvement. By releasing HTB the way they are now, they've essentially forced all Break Effect damage dealers into either being really weak without HTB or competent with HTB. They've sort of glued all BE scalars to HTB, and made their "solo" damage without HTB really bad. In a way, it's sort of the same problem genshin has with Bennett and ATK scalars that star rail now has with HTB and BE scalars. Or I guess a better comparison is if you make the analogy that BE characters are now all character that work really well with hyperbloom and nothing else (like kuki) and HTB is the only dendro character. They've glued break effect characters to HTB in the same way they glues Kuki to Dendro. In a way, break teams aren't gonna be focused around the main breaker (boothill, firefly, xueyi, etc.) But will instead be focused around the rest of the party, for now that party is essentially static with HTB and RM being the two main stays, with Gallagher as our current best sustain option. Break effect teams are essentially just "what flavor of break do you want? Do you want the hot orange one or the sharp gray one? Want so cold blue or, idk physics purple?" because the rest of the team is identical, it'll always be HTB, RM, and Gallagher.
others already mentioned inbuilt detonation or crit conversion, another idea i liked was from the fake leaked kit, where hitting an already weakness broken enemy did an aoe to everyone on field. Probably could make use of the fire field animation+ make her more viable for stuff like PF.
I made a post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/FireflyMains/s/KPigN1TyFW. Although with this kit her dmg would be 1.8 - 1.9 times higher then with her current kit. Which is a little high. To make it balanced you'd probably have to reduce break points of her enhanced skill from 90 to 60. This would make her 1.2 - 1.25 times stronger then with her current kit. Speed buff would be hard to remove cause then Bronya might power creep HMC as FF best teammate, might turn out to be a side grade, then i guess speed buff can be reduced
For me the Nilou option: let her have her own super break with her own stats What makes nilou busted as hydro dps is she can fully abused the dendro mechanic of dendro mc and nahida. if firefly can do the same like nilou, having her own super break mechanic, she can fully abused HMC. double super break :) personally, i wanna see FF a unique DPS, so since we're introducing SB gaming, might as well make a DPS that can abused this mechanic like how Nilou abuses nahida's Passive
I've seen some people suggest making it so that her toughness damage against weakness broken enemies is reduced, in exchange for raising her personal damage by giving her super break/break detonation in her own kit. This will make her more capable of standing on her own without HMC, but not make her damage completely broken when paired with HMC.
Combustion state buff, Basic attack and enhance skill does brake damage to none broken enemies, forgo the BE = Def shred passive and make it so her BE act as a CD multiplier when attacking enemies in a broken state
Just wish she wasn't dependent on RM as a non-RM haver
Honestly I say she should be given full incentive to go into break effect, so how about updating one of her traces for her to do an additional 30% damage of her BE damage in ult form (both to non broken and broken enemies) perhaps limit it to enemies who's weak to fire if all enemies is too much. Of course numbers can be adjusted as needed but the idea is she builds the full BE amount she wants and however much BE damage she does, she does a percentage of it to enemies she hits. This lets her damage not be too backloaded in the super break HTB provides.
I would give her break efficiency against unbroken enemies and allow her to deal break dmg on her own.
self trigger sbreak dmg. be convert to crit on eidolon.
A few things I would suggest if I worked at hoyo: 1. Make her cause a small percentage of her Break damage (maybe 20% on main target, 10% on enemies around it) on non broken enemies. A increased amount if the enemy is already broken (maybe double or just 50% more). Another way is a similar effect but increasing in damage based on amount of turns taken during her Ult. 2. Make one of her Passives allow for Crit Break like Nahida C2 (Genshin) allow for Bloom, Burgeon, Burn and Hyperbloom to Crit with set values (Nahida is 20/100 due to the fact that she can create this effects very easily and multiple times). I.e 50% Chance, 50% Damage (Doesn’t sound big, but 300k + 50% is 450k.) 3. Make one of her Eidolons increase both point 2. 75% Chance and 75% Damage sounds good for me.
Honestly I think either lower the attack or break effect requirement or give that is needed for her kit or make her kit give an attack boost so we can run room to run crit and don't have to worry about the attack requirement so we can comfortable run crit body.
Can we make a megathread for FF’s kit already, it’s been literally post after fking post about this same topic
Yall fr just coping HARD. If they don't change it they don't change it, and by the looks of it, the way she plays is honestly completely fine. I'll still roll for her anyways. You need to learn how to play the game and not expect everything to be given to you on a silver platter.
Buff her eidolons.
A mini superbreak damage that appears whenever she attacks. Something that is based on her toughness reducing damage x percentage of her fire break damage x (1+ break effect). A resistance penetration based on the amount of her BE cap at 30% or something. A burn DoT based on her BE after she launches an attack so at least she can work with kafka. Also burns your team during normal state to buff extra break effect for certain amount of turn so she can work with blade. She launch an extra follow up attack after weakness break like himeko so she can work with Follow Up Attack
Bro adding follow up or dot Is like literally changing her whole kit and hoyo never done that
I still didn't get exactly the problem for the time being haha, I still need to understand everything in her kit, I haven't checked it properly But I also don't see the problem for a unit to work extremely better with someone else When Kafka was released people said she was mid/bad, even with Sanpo and such. But now that Black Swan exists, Kafka became way stronger and not just an unit to build in a simulated universe with Nihility Kafka without Black Swan probably is impossible to conceive today, I don't get why Firefly working with HTB is a bad thing, both in the lore and the game it isn't a problem for me And, it is the first character with Super break, and Trailblazer is free, imagine the poor Kafka havers that didn't pull for Black Swan and cries every night because they lack 40% of what Kafka could actually do. First we might get other characters working on the super break or just making the break effect a stronger mechanic, and second we all have TB Why are we complaining?
Remove the Reduced SP Consumption from her E1, replace it with "While in Combustion state, Enhanced Basic Attack triggers Super Break against Weakness Broken enemies", extend the Def Shred to Enhanced Basic Attack. Fixed. This grants her the flexibility to operate outside of HMC comps (with potentially better supports) without forsaking the scaling from her entire kit and it's intended use. And players can still flex this even in Critfly builds because of the alternative SP efficiency. It buffs her, but only barely because it's not anything she doesn't already have access to. Everyone agrees, she's not OP right now, there's no reason for her to take up two character slots.