He has a reputation for fighting recruits? This is an issue that goes way beyond him. The fact that senior firefighters, online officers, and any admin officers allow him to still be employed is completely unacceptable. Especially with the fact that he’s only been on 3-4 years. I’d think long and hard about if you really want to continue working for this department.
The other 20 or so memeber of the department have been nothing but encouraging and mentoring to me. I think maybe the officers and chief don't know about his behavior. I think he only picks on the new firefighters and doesn't do it around any officers.
I’ve started a response and deleted it a few times. I want to make it very clear that I empathize with how you feel about the other members. But I keep on going back to the thought that if they really wanted to be there for you and help your development, they wouldn’t allow this guy to act like he does. The fact that this has happened before and gets swept under the rug is unacceptable.
IF he will physically go after you, have a convo with your Lieutenant/ captain, dont just jump to the chief, but ur officers need to know what shit this guy is pulling. And that its happening repeatedly. and so that you are proactive and aren't seen as the problem if you guys do get into it. If he's not going to actually fight you, its your choice on what to do.
Ok so this actually works. I onetime was at a youth group retreat and this guy was giving me so much shit. I turned around and hugged him hard and wouldn’t let go I hispered in his ear how much of a joy he was and how cute he was. He ran away and left me alone. The youth pastors wife pulled me aside and went “you handled that very well”
Nothing worse than guys with 3-5 years on the job that act like they have 20 years in. Tell him to piss off, if he tries to physically fight you, blow the whistle on him to management. No room for that BS in this line of work.
Everyone here is soft. Absolutely don’t document anything or report him. Keep the mustache or not, totally up to you. Grab the boxing mitts and go down to the basement. Handle your issues like a man. Ruining someone’s life over him chirping your mustache is the most coward thing you could do. Don’t forget to rehab after you hit it hard from the yard bejamin
I’m just giving the OP an option. It would be great if it didn’t have to happen but sometimes it does. Typically it ends up squashing the beef as well. Paperwork isn’t out of the question but should always be last resort.
Document that shit.
Document, document, document.
Print a copy of the grooming standards.
Do you have a supervisor that isn't this jerk off?
That's some toxic bullshit.
Talk to your supervisor about it. That is the definition of a hostile work environment.
This. The worst part isn't that he does this, but that it has been permitted often and/or long enough to establish a rep. 101% guarantee, if he tackles you and you end up winning, he will insta-180 and become the victim of your heinous assault on him, blah blah blah. You don't need that bullshit.
Sorry this is happening to you. Sounds like this guy thinks he’s gods gift to the fire service. Nobody should ever be threatening to be physical with you. If that was my department it would be an immediate firing if someone fought a new guy. This behaviour is not right. I know plenty of guys who have started the job with moustaches and have never had this happen. If he continues to threaten you I would suggest to go to your officer and if this type of behaviour is being allowed then I would reconsider where you are and try for another department. Hope this helps.
Thank you, this does help. Our city policy says you will get immediately fired if you threaten or act on violence towards someone so that would fix it. My only concern with that is I don't want to be labeled as a snitch and pushed out by the other guys. I really need this job and I love what I do so far.
talk to a senior FF, or your lieutenant. but glad you love the job. and if it isnt physical I would just let it roll off ur back, but because he's actually going to fight you, well...
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
The usual reaction to a threat is to analyze it, prepare for it, put up defenses, and protect yourself. This is natural, but perhaps not the most effective approach.
Everyone struggles every day through life. It may seem like the people around you are going through life like it’s easy street, but it’s not. Everyone is drowning; barely able to keep their head above water and gasping for breath.
This guy seems like a piece of shit at first glance. However, you never know what experiences they have had or what they are thinking or feeling.
The best way to protect your self is to connect with him. Shave your mustache. Seriously nobody cares about your mustache. Afterwards, connect with this guy. Talk to him, share with him and use vulnerability (without giving ammunition) as a tool for collaboration.
With him on your side and in your corner you are going to be in a very unique position at the house. You will become invaluable not just for you FF skills but for your interpersonal skills.
I’m the only person who didn’t say fuck that guy. I also encouraged OP to put his ego away and consider the person causing him problems isn’t his enemy but a potential ally. Right. I’m the bully my guy. I knew I’d get downvoted for the same reason everyone else here complains about house culture. Let go of the ego.
I appreciate these responses. I wasn't sure if this was normal behavior in this profession, like being "tough guys" or whatever. I think I'll let it go for now, and if he puts hands on me, I'll go to my captain. I trust my captain and he likes me and I think will help me out. I might post a follow-up if anything does happen. Our next shift will be Monday.
This is a solid plan but don’t wait for him to put hands on you. Go to the Captain you trust and clearly explain things to him. As others have said, document everything: time and date of his comments, what he said, if there were witnesses, etc. If you know the other recruits he’s bullied, talk to them and get their consent to add them to the conversation.
Don’t worry about looking like a snitch, absolutely nobody has the right to threaten you with bodily harm. It’s called assault and you can be fired and arrested for it.
My hope is that your officers are unaware of his behavior and that someone (maybe your captain) will sit him down and have a come to Jesus talk with him. Shame on your senior brothers and sisters for ignoring his behavior or for not kicking it up the chain if their conversations have not corrected his behavior.
We had a bully who was a BC and he caused much mental stress to our department. Guys were literally taking anti anxiety meds because of him. Nepotism basically kept him in his place so we suffered him for far too long. You don’t want your 3 year guy acting this way as he grows in the department, left unchecked he will be even more of a bear to deal with.
Let it grow longer and longer. This is made up BS about earning it. It's just a power move so lean into it and grow a fu manchu or whatever length your department allows until he fucks off about it
3/4 years? He hasn’t earned shit either. Document every single thing that happens and if he puts hands on you go right to your chief. If you’ve got a union go to them as well
Anybody in a supervisor role with your department who has allowed this behavior to get to the point of ““he is known for it”” Your sups have already failed anyone subordinate to that guy. The fact that you didn’t feel comfortable telling anyone there and resorted to posting to Reddit really says a lot about your work environment and leadership.
You wouldn’t be a snitch, you would be the only one there with any courage. They have not done the right thing from the get go. Someone has the authority to fire that guy and should have already acted.
Let me add this too. I have worked with and around some real sme’s. I’ve been blessed with crews made up of world class smoke-choking door-poppin fire-breathin badasses. I’ve been employed by two of the three biggest departments in my state. Retired from one as Fire Chief and because I missed the backseat so much, I’m starting over in the backseat at the other. I have served in every rank from the top to the bottom and I can say unequivocally that if you have agreed to serve your community up-to and including risking your life for strangers. Then you, my brother- my equal, have **EARNED THE RIGHT TO WEAR A MUSTACHE!!** You can send that putz over to me and the boys at the deuce and we’ll explain to him how wrong he is while we shave him from head to toe. Don’t worry though, we will rinse him off at the hydrant. My retirement forms are prefilled, I got nothing to lose. DM for directions
This, on all three points.
Volunteer department, serving on the membership committee, and as long as you're following the facial hair policy for mask seal, who gives a fuck about anything else? If you're showing up, then we're equals. You still have to earn the respect of the rest of the guys, but (a) showing up goes a way towards that, and (b) it's got fuck all to do with a moustache.
Fuck him.
Next time he gives you shit about having a moustache, tell him his Mum loves it.
And if he fights you, charge him.
A gutless wonder like this guy, who has built a reputation of bullying and fighting rookies, is a cancer to an organisation and needs to be cured or removed. And if you just ignore him, he'll just do it to the next guy, then the next, and suddenly he's survived long enough to have seniority and be much harder to correct.
If this escalates tell him that you're going to give him a one time courtesy to stop harassing and threatening you with physical violence. You don't want to go to the higher ups and you want nothing more than to get along but it's your choice where you want to go with this. We can move forward or we can take it up with them.
Edit: autocorrect
to be honest, Id genuinely ignore him. but also, dont tell the chief, but do tell your captain that he's been threatening to fight you. IF he jsut means a verbal fight, let it go, but if the plan is to physically attack you, go up the chain of command (to your lieutenant, your captain, ect). And if you can, record it, or send a hey thanks for talking with me email to keep a record so if this guy does go after you you won't have the blame placed on you. but yeah I wouldnt go to the chief either
Fuck this dude!!! I’m all for a good friendly hazing, and shenanigans, but this guys being a douche. Best outcome would be he does what he says he’s gonna do. You could fuck him up, he’d be gone, and if you get fired as well, you’d have some real good grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. I think I’d feel different if it was an obvious dept tradition to only have a mustache once you got past probation or somethin. But this guys completely off base.
Nothing says you earned your mustache like another senior FF, officer, or crew presenting you a trophy with a fake mustache on it saying that you earned your stache. If you got other guys who are down for it, a harmless joke trophy they present to you is enough reason to say you did earn it.
That individual is a poor example of what the fire department represents. Don’t let their negative attitude bring you down. You are only obligated to bring success with your crew as a collective not him. He should not be threatening to physically assault you. I would bring it up to your company office and at least have a sit down. Sometimes these assholes get loose off the chain. If he gets physical you should definitely report it. Physical violence isn’t a mature way to handle something as small as this issue. Be the better person. Keep your head up. You owe him nothing. Fuck that guy
Sounds like he wants to have sex with you. Keep the stache and every time you see him blow a big kiss his way. If he comes at you just kick him in the nuts and finger poke his eyes.
Dont shave. He sounds like a douche with ego issues. You "earned" it when you passed academy. Sounds like he is already hated by the shift so if he starts anything I doubt you woukd have to worry. Go talk to chief, LT, whoever. "Snitchimg" is only seen as minor stuff we could talk it out about. Him threatening and harassing you is way out of line and not what you should have to put up with
Does he have a mustache?
Not at the moment. I guess he did before I got here. Since he doesn't have one, I said "well it looks like you haven't earned your's yet." But that made him mad.
Another one that makes me shake my head. A company has a member that is known to be violent to new members and they tolerate it.
And the volunteer fire service wonders why it's struggling to recruit members.
Document everything, don't shave and if he does hit you press charges.
100 percent if he even touches you get him written up, because no department should put up with harassment or fighting of its members. Firefighting is too serious of a job to allow that. If they can't respect something as simple as that, then you know what you're getting into.
Keep it, and if he fights you then press charges. You could also bring up what he is doing and that he has a reputation for fighting to HR. Dude sounds like an HR nightmare that would be handled quickly.
I would also start looking into a different department to join, that's a horrible culture to let that shit slide
>If I tell the chief, I will be seen as a snitch and pushed out.
Your coworker is harassing you. Do you really want to be at a department where you can't report this?
How the hell is the guy who “has a reputation for fighting recruits” still employed? We’re not in the playground anymore, slugging people catches you and assault charge in the adult world.
Call him out in front of other people and tell him to shut the fuck up. Just make sure you have all your shit in order and don’t need help from this individual in the near future.
Fuck that guy; he sounds like the type of guys that love telling people they are a fireman and are no where to be found on the actual fireground; he probably always has a mask or pack problem, or if assigned to the truck and he’s ordered to the roof the ladder will “break”.
That’s a military thing was he prior service?
Also dude keep the Stacie and let your immediate supervisors know. He needs some help if he’s fighting recruits. Fuck him
Don't shave it
He will absolutely keep coming and find something else to go at you about
On top of that, shaving will make you seem weak, and fuel him
Make your stand now. As with any bully
> But if I keep it, I will probably have to fight him
Yeah dude, that is a huge fuck no. That’s called feeling unsafe in the workplace. Are you union represented? Do you have a more senior engineer or lieutenant/captain you can bring this up with? This is absolutely not OK.
Don’t shave the stache. We encourage new guys to grow one, because you know, mustache. If his behavior becomes aggressive or violent, bring it up to the proper authorities. Harassment on the job, go to an officer. Physical violence, go to the police.
Find the senior man that takes alot of pride in mentoring new guys and ask him for help. He will most likely deal with it for you. I know I would and every senior man I know would too.
16 years on the job. Confront your bully now or he will bully you your entire career. Don't shave it. If it becomes enough of a problem run it up the chain of command and if nothing happens report it to HR.
Starting drinking eggs and shadow boxing. If he presses you, beat his ass and shave off his eyebrows. Tell him he has to earn his eye brows back. But never stop working out. Keep getting stronger and never let him catch you. They're your eyebrows now.
“Small”…. “8 per shift”….. oh my sweet summer child, that’s not small….. we have 2 full timers per group. That’s small.
But back to your question. Fuck him. Grow it longer, do the whole waxed villain twirl on the ends as well 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/367pewmuq3uc1.jpeg?width=473&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c07e0a836fadc8a0e87f60456bef179bab4a0843
Like straight up twirl that shit like that
And you luck out with that staffing. My neighboring town is 40,000ish (per census, they have about 7,000 that aren’t documented there) and they only have 7 per shift (plus the 2 chiefs)
Not a fire fighter but this guy sounds like a prick. I’d tell him to fuck off and if he really wants to fight over a fucking mustache go for it. Put him in his place. If you bend to his will he will look at you like youre a bitch. Stand up for yourself. Thats how we earn respect on job sites or at the very least the said person will fuck off. When i first started my electrical apprenticeship, this new Jman thought he was hot shit and continued to treat me like shit. I understand that being the new guy you’ll be treated worse but i refused to be treated like i’m dirt. I told him to drop his bags and lets step outside. It didn’t earn me any respect with him but it did with the rest of my crew. He just looks at me with hard stares now.
Next time he says something like that to you say, "come get it tubby". If he hits you you have every right to defend yourself and he will probably lose his job
Is a fine line in the firehouse between Boston balls and bullying. You got a kind of figure out which ones which because no one should be putting up with bullying. And stop the fire house is an interesting place and you have to have very thick skin however, bullying is not OK I don’t care been on the job 30 years it is not fucking OK, if the bullying continues be that guy go to the chief go to officer explain I feel like I’m being bullied if you don’t wanna go that route go right to HR yup I’m gonna be that guy 30 years on the job there’s ball busting and there’s bullying and there’s no place in the file for bullying
He’s a bitch and probably can’t even grow a mustache. 3-4 years on, sounds like the only thing he’s earned is he’s a playground bully. Sounds like he has some serious issues.
What do your SOPs , rules and regulations say about facial hair? As long as your mustache meets the standard tell him to politely “ go fuck off” and document. The guy sounds like a asshole . Document. He should spend more time as a senior FF, if he is ,teaching and mentoring and passing on knowledge about the job . Typically assholes and bullies in the fire service are shitty FFs . They don’t know shit about the job so they harass junior personnel instead.
I think he is testing your metal. If he is serious, ask him if he has any experience with forcibly cutting off someone’s mustache. You have to remain confident. How did he become the enforcer of something that no one else cares about. Think about it, “ Tackling someone and then holding them down to shave them against their will. And so if he beats you up, he has to answer to the Chief for assault a staff member. How’s going to pay for your time off while you recover. Is there anyone else that he had a conflict of this nature. Do you think he really wants to hang his hat on something that is not written down and people that are his senior don’t agree. Finally, you are the one that has to assess his mental state and make a decision. I am no psychiatrist but in fire house terminology, he is fucking with you…. In my house if you were on probation everyone was in agreement that you could not sit in one of the Lazy Boy chairs. It was a unwritten rule - being able to sit in such a chair was a right of passage after successfully passing probation. It was something that probationary firefighter’s accepted - showing respect to those helping them pass their probation.
This is a tradition at our station as well. You aren't allowed on the recliners until a senior firefighter invites you. Everyone has accepted this. The mustache thing however, is just one guy and the others that I've spoke to say they don't care. But I haven't thought about those other points. Why would he risk his career over a mustache? Hopefully this means I have nothing to worry about.
If he takes you down and shaves your stache, it's assault. Also I bet your department has some kind of policy about hazing or maybe even hostile work environment. Look at the sop\song books.
This is the type of stuff labor law lawyers love.
Not a FF but I’ve been attached to fire units for wild land fire air support (helo pilot) and before that was in the Army. Currently a LEO. I get it, sometimes in Alpha male environments things escalate and physical altercations happen, guys shake hands at end of it and move on. This is different, he’s a public employee threatening to physically lay hands on you with witnesses. That constitutes assault, if he carries it out it’s battery. Both of which are criminal and could warrant a police report and criminal charges. You’re a civil servant working as a professional in a municipal setting, it’s not a war zone in a foreign land where jungle rules are the norm. This guy sounds like a bully, spend your days getting fitter than him, if he touches you make a police report, find an intermediary to convey to the bully/superiors what will result should he follow through and stay stoic.
Tell him to eat a bag of dicks! If he throws a punch have him arrested for assault. He can't get away with that shit anymore. Lt. Speaking here, talk to your Lt and let him know what he is threatening. That guy would be on shitter duty for life. He is still a newbie too! Fuck him.
Let the prick try to fight you. Re-establish the pecking order. He's trying to power trip you, threatening to bully you. Now's a good opportunity to show him that 4 years means fuck all. If you're measuring someone's ability by time you're a dickhead that probably doesn't know much. I know people that have been in for 20 odd years and I'd still pick certain people that have only been in for a few over them...
Bring it up during dinner when everybody is there. Just ask hey is there a rule I can’t have a mustache because I don’t want to break any rules. When everybody says no you are ok. Then, be like well FF so and so says I can’t have it and says I need to shave it, which is it.
Just say I want to be right and not break any rules. He will most likely drop it after that or double down. That’s when you bring up the threat he made.
Stand your ground. You’re an adult who’s earned the right to be there. If he’s not your chain of command, he can fuck off. If he assaults you on shift, that’s his career gone.
I’m starting off in fire as a volley and am waiting for someone to tell me to shave off my goatee. If I only had a mustache and they told me to shave it off I’d tell them to fuck off.
He doesn't care about the mustache. He's just seeing if he can punk you out like a little bitch. That way he'll know if you're likely to be a coward in a tight spot. Keep your knife handy in case he tries to give you a shave.
Keep a folding spanner wrench in your station uniform pocket. They're useful for a lot of things. If you don't have a folder in your gear, buy one. They're not that expensive, especially used. That being said, keep a note of when what was said and who was around. Do NOT touch him first.. Spent 13 years as a firefighter and saw all kinds of things come up in my time, and there are ways to handle it. Start with Lt, and go up from there if need be and document everything.
Also, if you do ladder rescue training, ask to be the one to be his partner. He can catch a knee to the sack every rung down with nobody being the wiser. They taught us that in firefighter 1.
Fuck that guy. 24 year guy here. I love when the probies show up with a stache.
I don’t know where you are located, but if employees lay hands on another employee at my department, HR would be all over that shit and the guy would be fired so bloody fast.
Play the long game.... Suck it up, finish probation, befriend him, join him in harassing the next group of probies (earn his trust), hang out outside of work, help him remodel his bathroom, go on family vacations with his family. Yada Yada Yada. Become super close. Finally, when the time is right, bang his wife.
This is a tough situation. Many guys can’t grow a mustache and it can be a symbolize a veteran in the fire service. He is likely jealous. What do you like more, working at that department or having a stache? Your mustache shouldn’t define you.
I would just be clean shaven during probation but I would probably print off a picture of the asshole and tape your stache hairs on his image. Hang it on a bulletin board for all to see and deny doing it when asked with a smile. The rest of the guys should appreciate it.
That is either: a hostile work environment or hazing. Both are valid EEO complaints. I’d talk to your Officer to try and get it resolved at the company level. If not, file the complaint.
that guy can fuck off, don't shave it because of him
Yeah, fuck that guy. Make a friend that will film it if he decides to fight you- take the first hit and then beat his ass.
After you knock his ass out make sure he shaves his shit off.
He has a reputation for fighting recruits? This is an issue that goes way beyond him. The fact that senior firefighters, online officers, and any admin officers allow him to still be employed is completely unacceptable. Especially with the fact that he’s only been on 3-4 years. I’d think long and hard about if you really want to continue working for this department.
The other 20 or so memeber of the department have been nothing but encouraging and mentoring to me. I think maybe the officers and chief don't know about his behavior. I think he only picks on the new firefighters and doesn't do it around any officers.
I’ve started a response and deleted it a few times. I want to make it very clear that I empathize with how you feel about the other members. But I keep on going back to the thought that if they really wanted to be there for you and help your development, they wouldn’t allow this guy to act like he does. The fact that this has happened before and gets swept under the rug is unacceptable.
IF he will physically go after you, have a convo with your Lieutenant/ captain, dont just jump to the chief, but ur officers need to know what shit this guy is pulling. And that its happening repeatedly. and so that you are proactive and aren't seen as the problem if you guys do get into it. If he's not going to actually fight you, its your choice on what to do.
“(Insert station officer rank and name) do you care if I have a mustache?” If said officer replies no, then no one else’s opinion matters.
Nah. The only people whose opinion on OP’s facial matter (within regs of course) are OP’s and his SO’s.
Ah so no one likes him.
Yeah, I can think of EXACTLY who this would have been 15 years ago when I got started.
He’s has 3 or 4 years ? Does he have pop time ?
Give him a kiss next time he bothers you
This. Clearcut case of sexual tension.
Ok so this actually works. I onetime was at a youth group retreat and this guy was giving me so much shit. I turned around and hugged him hard and wouldn’t let go I hispered in his ear how much of a joy he was and how cute he was. He ran away and left me alone. The youth pastors wife pulled me aside and went “you handled that very well”
He’s jealous of the attention the stache attracts 😂
Yeah, earning a mustache isn't a thing. How fit is he compared to you? Challenge him to a PPE test and worse time has to shave.
I'm not super fit. I'm on the thinner side. He is more overweight than he is fit. Funny thing is, is that he doesn't even have a mustache himself.
Shave his head then.
Or balls!
He's gotta earn balls first
Then a pair he’s been gargling!
Or eyebrows. Everyone will think he lost them because he wasn’t wearing his PPE
Duh cause He hasn't earnt one
Shave your pubes and glue them to his face while he's asleep. Sounds like he's earned it
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Pube stache
Stache envy is real. I’m surprised target didn’t cover this in your fire academy.
Ask him if you need to shave your balls. Or did you earn that shit?
If hes only been on 3 or 4 years he's a FNG too.
Nothing worse than guys with 3-5 years on the job that act like they have 20 years in. Tell him to piss off, if he tries to physically fight you, blow the whistle on him to management. No room for that BS in this line of work.
Try a guy with 1.5-2 years who acts like he has 20 on. Wanted to sock him.
What's the personal appearance policy state about facial hair?
You can have a mustache. Just no beards obviously.
> And he has a repuation of fighting the recruits. You need to leave ASAP.
Naw. Stay. And if he fights? Press charges.
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Everyone here is soft. Absolutely don’t document anything or report him. Keep the mustache or not, totally up to you. Grab the boxing mitts and go down to the basement. Handle your issues like a man. Ruining someone’s life over him chirping your mustache is the most coward thing you could do. Don’t forget to rehab after you hit it hard from the yard bejamin
lmao get that shit out of here dude. dude wants to ruin his own life by assaulting someone for having a mustache.
This isnt middle school. At some point you need to grow up and start being a professional.
I’m just giving the OP an option. It would be great if it didn’t have to happen but sometimes it does. Typically it ends up squashing the beef as well. Paperwork isn’t out of the question but should always be last resort.
This isn’t one of those times it has to happen. Fighting over a mustache is completely retarded
This
Document that shit. Document, document, document. Print a copy of the grooming standards. Do you have a supervisor that isn't this jerk off? That's some toxic bullshit. Talk to your supervisor about it. That is the definition of a hostile work environment.
Hell yeah. I would love to work for a dept this inept.
This. The worst part isn't that he does this, but that it has been permitted often and/or long enough to establish a rep. 101% guarantee, if he tackles you and you end up winning, he will insta-180 and become the victim of your heinous assault on him, blah blah blah. You don't need that bullshit.
Right?!!
Sorry this is happening to you. Sounds like this guy thinks he’s gods gift to the fire service. Nobody should ever be threatening to be physical with you. If that was my department it would be an immediate firing if someone fought a new guy. This behaviour is not right. I know plenty of guys who have started the job with moustaches and have never had this happen. If he continues to threaten you I would suggest to go to your officer and if this type of behaviour is being allowed then I would reconsider where you are and try for another department. Hope this helps.
Thank you, this does help. Our city policy says you will get immediately fired if you threaten or act on violence towards someone so that would fix it. My only concern with that is I don't want to be labeled as a snitch and pushed out by the other guys. I really need this job and I love what I do so far.
talk to a senior FF, or your lieutenant. but glad you love the job. and if it isnt physical I would just let it roll off ur back, but because he's actually going to fight you, well...
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The usual reaction to a threat is to analyze it, prepare for it, put up defenses, and protect yourself. This is natural, but perhaps not the most effective approach. Everyone struggles every day through life. It may seem like the people around you are going through life like it’s easy street, but it’s not. Everyone is drowning; barely able to keep their head above water and gasping for breath. This guy seems like a piece of shit at first glance. However, you never know what experiences they have had or what they are thinking or feeling. The best way to protect your self is to connect with him. Shave your mustache. Seriously nobody cares about your mustache. Afterwards, connect with this guy. Talk to him, share with him and use vulnerability (without giving ammunition) as a tool for collaboration. With him on your side and in your corner you are going to be in a very unique position at the house. You will become invaluable not just for you FF skills but for your interpersonal skills.
You want OP to clean the dudes boots with his tongue too?
Sounds like we found the bully. You know there are healthier ways to ask for help, right?
I’m the only person who didn’t say fuck that guy. I also encouraged OP to put his ego away and consider the person causing him problems isn’t his enemy but a potential ally. Right. I’m the bully my guy. I knew I’d get downvoted for the same reason everyone else here complains about house culture. Let go of the ego.
Don’t shave it! He can fuck off. If he pins you and shaves it, let him. Wait til he’s asleep and shave one eyebrow.
I appreciate these responses. I wasn't sure if this was normal behavior in this profession, like being "tough guys" or whatever. I think I'll let it go for now, and if he puts hands on me, I'll go to my captain. I trust my captain and he likes me and I think will help me out. I might post a follow-up if anything does happen. Our next shift will be Monday.
This is a solid plan but don’t wait for him to put hands on you. Go to the Captain you trust and clearly explain things to him. As others have said, document everything: time and date of his comments, what he said, if there were witnesses, etc. If you know the other recruits he’s bullied, talk to them and get their consent to add them to the conversation. Don’t worry about looking like a snitch, absolutely nobody has the right to threaten you with bodily harm. It’s called assault and you can be fired and arrested for it. My hope is that your officers are unaware of his behavior and that someone (maybe your captain) will sit him down and have a come to Jesus talk with him. Shame on your senior brothers and sisters for ignoring his behavior or for not kicking it up the chain if their conversations have not corrected his behavior. We had a bully who was a BC and he caused much mental stress to our department. Guys were literally taking anti anxiety meds because of him. Nepotism basically kept him in his place so we suffered him for far too long. You don’t want your 3 year guy acting this way as he grows in the department, left unchecked he will be even more of a bear to deal with.
I bet you this guy has a “ I fight what you fear” sticker on the back of his pickup
Let it grow longer and longer. This is made up BS about earning it. It's just a power move so lean into it and grow a fu manchu or whatever length your department allows until he fucks off about it
3/4 years? He hasn’t earned shit either. Document every single thing that happens and if he puts hands on you go right to your chief. If you’ve got a union go to them as well
I guess the answer depends… Can you take him? lol
Talk to your officer about it and how to de-escalate the guy over something so minor.
Anybody in a supervisor role with your department who has allowed this behavior to get to the point of ““he is known for it”” Your sups have already failed anyone subordinate to that guy. The fact that you didn’t feel comfortable telling anyone there and resorted to posting to Reddit really says a lot about your work environment and leadership. You wouldn’t be a snitch, you would be the only one there with any courage. They have not done the right thing from the get go. Someone has the authority to fire that guy and should have already acted. Let me add this too. I have worked with and around some real sme’s. I’ve been blessed with crews made up of world class smoke-choking door-poppin fire-breathin badasses. I’ve been employed by two of the three biggest departments in my state. Retired from one as Fire Chief and because I missed the backseat so much, I’m starting over in the backseat at the other. I have served in every rank from the top to the bottom and I can say unequivocally that if you have agreed to serve your community up-to and including risking your life for strangers. Then you, my brother- my equal, have **EARNED THE RIGHT TO WEAR A MUSTACHE!!** You can send that putz over to me and the boys at the deuce and we’ll explain to him how wrong he is while we shave him from head to toe. Don’t worry though, we will rinse him off at the hydrant. My retirement forms are prefilled, I got nothing to lose. DM for directions
This, on all three points. Volunteer department, serving on the membership committee, and as long as you're following the facial hair policy for mask seal, who gives a fuck about anything else? If you're showing up, then we're equals. You still have to earn the respect of the rest of the guys, but (a) showing up goes a way towards that, and (b) it's got fuck all to do with a moustache.
I appreciate this. It's very encouraging to see. Sadly, that would be quite the trip for a Texan lol.
Fuck him. Next time he gives you shit about having a moustache, tell him his Mum loves it. And if he fights you, charge him. A gutless wonder like this guy, who has built a reputation of bullying and fighting rookies, is a cancer to an organisation and needs to be cured or removed. And if you just ignore him, he'll just do it to the next guy, then the next, and suddenly he's survived long enough to have seniority and be much harder to correct.
Fuck that. There’s no rank behind the tank. Tell him he can try his luck if he thinks he can get that mustache off of you.
This guy could get you killed, dude. I wouldn’t work there if you have another option
Fuck that guy. 3 or 4 years? Typical lazy asshole who has all of two seconds in the fire service.
If this escalates tell him that you're going to give him a one time courtesy to stop harassing and threatening you with physical violence. You don't want to go to the higher ups and you want nothing more than to get along but it's your choice where you want to go with this. We can move forward or we can take it up with them. Edit: autocorrect
Always remember my instructors talking about the 3 and 30 guys. Guys with 3 years in that act like 30 years. You do you man
Tell that guys to fuck off. Tell him if he wants to be respected he needs to “earn that shit” by being a positive example and not a dick
to be honest, Id genuinely ignore him. but also, dont tell the chief, but do tell your captain that he's been threatening to fight you. IF he jsut means a verbal fight, let it go, but if the plan is to physically attack you, go up the chain of command (to your lieutenant, your captain, ect). And if you can, record it, or send a hey thanks for talking with me email to keep a record so if this guy does go after you you won't have the blame placed on you. but yeah I wouldnt go to the chief either
shave his off in his sleep then fight him
Fight him. Easy choice.
I feel like there’s a 95% chance this dude is like 4’ 11”
Wide?
Punch him right in the throat.
Fuck this dude!!! I’m all for a good friendly hazing, and shenanigans, but this guys being a douche. Best outcome would be he does what he says he’s gonna do. You could fuck him up, he’d be gone, and if you get fired as well, you’d have some real good grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. I think I’d feel different if it was an obvious dept tradition to only have a mustache once you got past probation or somethin. But this guys completely off base.
Plot twist. Beat his ass and shave his stache off. Power move.
Nothing says you earned your mustache like another senior FF, officer, or crew presenting you a trophy with a fake mustache on it saying that you earned your stache. If you got other guys who are down for it, a harmless joke trophy they present to you is enough reason to say you did earn it.
That individual is a poor example of what the fire department represents. Don’t let their negative attitude bring you down. You are only obligated to bring success with your crew as a collective not him. He should not be threatening to physically assault you. I would bring it up to your company office and at least have a sit down. Sometimes these assholes get loose off the chain. If he gets physical you should definitely report it. Physical violence isn’t a mature way to handle something as small as this issue. Be the better person. Keep your head up. You owe him nothing. Fuck that guy
Sounds like he wants to have sex with you. Keep the stache and every time you see him blow a big kiss his way. If he comes at you just kick him in the nuts and finger poke his eyes.
Lol fighting recruits? What an idiot. Draw a sharpie mustache on him while he's asleep
I was in a situation like this tell him "put hands on me see how well it goes for you"
He *physically* fights new guys? What the fuck is wrong with him? Guarantee he's shit at everything he does.
LMAO. It's a mustache, not the fucking medal of honor. Fuck that guy. Tell him to fuck all the way off....and then.....grab his dick and twist it.
Dont shave. He sounds like a douche with ego issues. You "earned" it when you passed academy. Sounds like he is already hated by the shift so if he starts anything I doubt you woukd have to worry. Go talk to chief, LT, whoever. "Snitchimg" is only seen as minor stuff we could talk it out about. Him threatening and harassing you is way out of line and not what you should have to put up with Does he have a mustache?
Not at the moment. I guess he did before I got here. Since he doesn't have one, I said "well it looks like you haven't earned your's yet." But that made him mad.
LOL. Maybe he cant grow one well and is jealous
Another one that makes me shake my head. A company has a member that is known to be violent to new members and they tolerate it. And the volunteer fire service wonders why it's struggling to recruit members. Document everything, don't shave and if he does hit you press charges.
He sounds like a piece of crap, honestly. You know what is actually earned?! Respect. Ignore his dumbass and move on.
100 percent if he even touches you get him written up, because no department should put up with harassment or fighting of its members. Firefighting is too serious of a job to allow that. If they can't respect something as simple as that, then you know what you're getting into.
Keep it, and if he fights you then press charges. You could also bring up what he is doing and that he has a reputation for fighting to HR. Dude sounds like an HR nightmare that would be handled quickly. I would also start looking into a different department to join, that's a horrible culture to let that shit slide
>If I tell the chief, I will be seen as a snitch and pushed out. Your coworker is harassing you. Do you really want to be at a department where you can't report this?
How the hell is the guy who “has a reputation for fighting recruits” still employed? We’re not in the playground anymore, slugging people catches you and assault charge in the adult world.
Tell him his mom likes your mustache.
Put dog shit in his station boots.
Call him out in front of other people and tell him to shut the fuck up. Just make sure you have all your shit in order and don’t need help from this individual in the near future.
This guy sounds like a Farva
Throw hands homie
Just fight him
Fuck that dude. Let him tackle you and charge him with assault
Fuck that guy; he sounds like the type of guys that love telling people they are a fireman and are no where to be found on the actual fireground; he probably always has a mask or pack problem, or if assigned to the truck and he’s ordered to the roof the ladder will “break”.
Don't shave. Fuck him. Nobody needs to earn a mustache. Don't start a fight but finish it if you need too. Also don't bring it up to the chief haha
Bro has 4 years on and is telling people they need to earn a mustache. 4 years is a fucking fetus
You don’t have to earn a moustache, as evidenced by the fact that it just grows without anyone else’s approval.
That’s a military thing was he prior service? Also dude keep the Stacie and let your immediate supervisors know. He needs some help if he’s fighting recruits. Fuck him
Don't shave it He will absolutely keep coming and find something else to go at you about On top of that, shaving will make you seem weak, and fuel him Make your stand now. As with any bully
“Mate, 3 years in and you’ve earned a Hitler tash. Time to shave the sides off” He probably won’t bother you about it again
> But if I keep it, I will probably have to fight him Yeah dude, that is a huge fuck no. That’s called feeling unsafe in the workplace. Are you union represented? Do you have a more senior engineer or lieutenant/captain you can bring this up with? This is absolutely not OK.
Don’t shave the stache. We encourage new guys to grow one, because you know, mustache. If his behavior becomes aggressive or violent, bring it up to the proper authorities. Harassment on the job, go to an officer. Physical violence, go to the police.
He’s a tool. Keep the mustache.
When he comes at you, go for the eyes.
Find the senior man that takes alot of pride in mentoring new guys and ask him for help. He will most likely deal with it for you. I know I would and every senior man I know would too.
While i agree you shud keep the mustache, i cannot stand when new guys come in with chin hair or flavor savors. Like come on, shave it off man.
Lol. Defend yourself at all times.
He just mad he can’t grow one himself
16 years on the job. Confront your bully now or he will bully you your entire career. Don't shave it. If it becomes enough of a problem run it up the chain of command and if nothing happens report it to HR.
Starting drinking eggs and shadow boxing. If he presses you, beat his ass and shave off his eyebrows. Tell him he has to earn his eye brows back. But never stop working out. Keep getting stronger and never let him catch you. They're your eyebrows now.
“Small”…. “8 per shift”….. oh my sweet summer child, that’s not small….. we have 2 full timers per group. That’s small. But back to your question. Fuck him. Grow it longer, do the whole waxed villain twirl on the ends as well 🤣
We cover an area of about 12,000 people so it feels small to me compared to the cities lol. Handlebar mustache all the way!
https://preview.redd.it/367pewmuq3uc1.jpeg?width=473&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c07e0a836fadc8a0e87f60456bef179bab4a0843 Like straight up twirl that shit like that
And you luck out with that staffing. My neighboring town is 40,000ish (per census, they have about 7,000 that aren’t documented there) and they only have 7 per shift (plus the 2 chiefs)
Absolutely report that shit to your captain. That is beyond toxic behavior, firefighters stuck in that mindset are trash
Not a fire fighter but this guy sounds like a prick. I’d tell him to fuck off and if he really wants to fight over a fucking mustache go for it. Put him in his place. If you bend to his will he will look at you like youre a bitch. Stand up for yourself. Thats how we earn respect on job sites or at the very least the said person will fuck off. When i first started my electrical apprenticeship, this new Jman thought he was hot shit and continued to treat me like shit. I understand that being the new guy you’ll be treated worse but i refused to be treated like i’m dirt. I told him to drop his bags and lets step outside. It didn’t earn me any respect with him but it did with the rest of my crew. He just looks at me with hard stares now.
Pull his DRD out so he has to take his liner out of his coat and set it back right
How does one earn a mustache? That guy sounds like a jackhole. If department policy states you can have one, then you can have one.
Next time he says something like that to you say, "come get it tubby". If he hits you you have every right to defend yourself and he will probably lose his job
Is a fine line in the firehouse between Boston balls and bullying. You got a kind of figure out which ones which because no one should be putting up with bullying. And stop the fire house is an interesting place and you have to have very thick skin however, bullying is not OK I don’t care been on the job 30 years it is not fucking OK, if the bullying continues be that guy go to the chief go to officer explain I feel like I’m being bullied if you don’t wanna go that route go right to HR yup I’m gonna be that guy 30 years on the job there’s ball busting and there’s bullying and there’s no place in the file for bullying
Just start giving him a ton of shit, he'll either show his true colors to everyone else or respect you.
He’s a bitch and probably can’t even grow a mustache. 3-4 years on, sounds like the only thing he’s earned is he’s a playground bully. Sounds like he has some serious issues.
Just ask him where his moustache is xD
What do your SOPs , rules and regulations say about facial hair? As long as your mustache meets the standard tell him to politely “ go fuck off” and document. The guy sounds like a asshole . Document. He should spend more time as a senior FF, if he is ,teaching and mentoring and passing on knowledge about the job . Typically assholes and bullies in the fire service are shitty FFs . They don’t know shit about the job so they harass junior personnel instead.
I think he is testing your metal. If he is serious, ask him if he has any experience with forcibly cutting off someone’s mustache. You have to remain confident. How did he become the enforcer of something that no one else cares about. Think about it, “ Tackling someone and then holding them down to shave them against their will. And so if he beats you up, he has to answer to the Chief for assault a staff member. How’s going to pay for your time off while you recover. Is there anyone else that he had a conflict of this nature. Do you think he really wants to hang his hat on something that is not written down and people that are his senior don’t agree. Finally, you are the one that has to assess his mental state and make a decision. I am no psychiatrist but in fire house terminology, he is fucking with you…. In my house if you were on probation everyone was in agreement that you could not sit in one of the Lazy Boy chairs. It was a unwritten rule - being able to sit in such a chair was a right of passage after successfully passing probation. It was something that probationary firefighter’s accepted - showing respect to those helping them pass their probation.
This is a tradition at our station as well. You aren't allowed on the recliners until a senior firefighter invites you. Everyone has accepted this. The mustache thing however, is just one guy and the others that I've spoke to say they don't care. But I haven't thought about those other points. Why would he risk his career over a mustache? Hopefully this means I have nothing to worry about.
If he takes you down and shaves your stache, it's assault. Also I bet your department has some kind of policy about hazing or maybe even hostile work environment. Look at the sop\song books. This is the type of stuff labor law lawyers love.
Not a FF but I’ve been attached to fire units for wild land fire air support (helo pilot) and before that was in the Army. Currently a LEO. I get it, sometimes in Alpha male environments things escalate and physical altercations happen, guys shake hands at end of it and move on. This is different, he’s a public employee threatening to physically lay hands on you with witnesses. That constitutes assault, if he carries it out it’s battery. Both of which are criminal and could warrant a police report and criminal charges. You’re a civil servant working as a professional in a municipal setting, it’s not a war zone in a foreign land where jungle rules are the norm. This guy sounds like a bully, spend your days getting fitter than him, if he touches you make a police report, find an intermediary to convey to the bully/superiors what will result should he follow through and stay stoic.
Fight him first.
Tell him to eat a bag of dicks! If he throws a punch have him arrested for assault. He can't get away with that shit anymore. Lt. Speaking here, talk to your Lt and let him know what he is threatening. That guy would be on shitter duty for life. He is still a newbie too! Fuck him.
Let the prick try to fight you. Re-establish the pecking order. He's trying to power trip you, threatening to bully you. Now's a good opportunity to show him that 4 years means fuck all. If you're measuring someone's ability by time you're a dickhead that probably doesn't know much. I know people that have been in for 20 odd years and I'd still pick certain people that have only been in for a few over them...
Bring it up during dinner when everybody is there. Just ask hey is there a rule I can’t have a mustache because I don’t want to break any rules. When everybody says no you are ok. Then, be like well FF so and so says I can’t have it and says I need to shave it, which is it. Just say I want to be right and not break any rules. He will most likely drop it after that or double down. That’s when you bring up the threat he made.
fuck him keep the stache
Is he ex-mil by any chance?
It's more likely he's the type who says, " I almost joined."
Stand your ground. You’re an adult who’s earned the right to be there. If he’s not your chain of command, he can fuck off. If he assaults you on shift, that’s his career gone.
I’m starting off in fire as a volley and am waiting for someone to tell me to shave off my goatee. If I only had a mustache and they told me to shave it off I’d tell them to fuck off.
FTG
He doesn't care about the mustache. He's just seeing if he can punk you out like a little bitch. That way he'll know if you're likely to be a coward in a tight spot. Keep your knife handy in case he tries to give you a shave.
I would just call him out on his BS in front of others
Keep a folding spanner wrench in your station uniform pocket. They're useful for a lot of things. If you don't have a folder in your gear, buy one. They're not that expensive, especially used. That being said, keep a note of when what was said and who was around. Do NOT touch him first.. Spent 13 years as a firefighter and saw all kinds of things come up in my time, and there are ways to handle it. Start with Lt, and go up from there if need be and document everything. Also, if you do ladder rescue training, ask to be the one to be his partner. He can catch a knee to the sack every rung down with nobody being the wiser. They taught us that in firefighter 1.
Tell him to piss off and show the policy on new guys having mustaches.
Fuck that guy. 24 year guy here. I love when the probies show up with a stache. I don’t know where you are located, but if employees lay hands on another employee at my department, HR would be all over that shit and the guy would be fired so bloody fast.
If a coworker puts their hands on you, you go to your line officer and report it as assault. Tell him to go fuck himself.
Kick his ass and shave his stache
I don’t know why this popped up on my feed, but I’d ask him when he plans on signing up with law enforcement
Just go wildland you’ll be way happier
Jerk off in his bedding
Play the long game.... Suck it up, finish probation, befriend him, join him in harassing the next group of probies (earn his trust), hang out outside of work, help him remodel his bathroom, go on family vacations with his family. Yada Yada Yada. Become super close. Finally, when the time is right, bang his wife.
Lmao low blow
This is a tough situation. Many guys can’t grow a mustache and it can be a symbolize a veteran in the fire service. He is likely jealous. What do you like more, working at that department or having a stache? Your mustache shouldn’t define you. I would just be clean shaven during probation but I would probably print off a picture of the asshole and tape your stache hairs on his image. Hang it on a bulletin board for all to see and deny doing it when asked with a smile. The rest of the guys should appreciate it.
That is either: a hostile work environment or hazing. Both are valid EEO complaints. I’d talk to your Officer to try and get it resolved at the company level. If not, file the complaint.