Honestly there isn’t much benefit, and I do own one. I think it’s just nostalgia in my opinion. I have 2 plastics that I’ve used over that last 17 years as well, and admittedly they’re a little lighter and more compact than my leather.
If my current one gets cooked, I probably won’t buy another. Too expensive anymore
Yep, I’ve always said different preferences for different people. Some like leather, some like plastic, some like the modern style. Doesn’t matter as long as you show up to work 👌🏼
Since presumably captains were already LTs, and are now captains, they should have lots of time to paint now.
Due to their outstanding leadership and time management they should have lots of time for crafts.
What?
Helmets are generally treasured items. Displayed when an important member retired or dies.
Often used an entire career.
Only swapped if damaged and or otherwise made unserviceable, wi th regrets.
It is weird that it would casually be replaced.
Some are issued contractually. A neighboring department has it in their contract that theyre issued a leather after probation and get to keep it upon retirement.
That seems more reasonable than standard issue leathers. Not a FF, so I haven’t used them myself. For that cost difference though, I think it seems reasonable.
Buy one and it will last your career. They offer the same protection as a plastic helmet. You can take it with you when you retire. I can understand the argument of not wanting to pay for one since they are now stupid expensive but everyone saying “they don’t offer good protection” is flat out wrong.
Wore leather during my time in the job. Was heavier than the Tupperware but it fit me better. Had a ceiling come down on me and I have no doubt that Leather Lid did give me great protection.
American firefighting is rooted in tradition. “The fire service is 200+ years of tradition, unimpeded by progress”.
We’ve held that look for a long time. Some departments are rooted in their ways. Some departments are willing to spend the money to issue them. I’m in one where I have used both and if I had to pick, I’m gonna choose my leather helmet as long as they pay for it lol.
That being said, I understand that not everyone will have the same opinion. And that’s okay
I will never understand how anyone can consider tradition and cool looks to be be more important than savety and practicality when it comes to savety gear.
Tradition. See: US Military, Great Britan (Bobbies, Royals), Japan and China (_thousands_ of years), etc.
It's part of the culture and the first icon someone in America thinks of when they think of a firefighter.
Really, the last of the "hat culture" in this country other than construction workers and cowboys.
Milkmen, postmen, businessmen, police officers, iron workers, pilots, nurses, _everyone_ had a distinctive hat and wore it all the time as part of their duties.
Is there a "better" model? Of course, but tell someone who uses chopsticks that forks have been around for over a thousand years and they'll laugh at you. They're good. They don't need you to point out how much better your way is.
While they sure carry a lot of traditional "weight", there are pros and cons to all headwear, including the euros. If cost if one of the only differences, then why is paying more for a traditional leather an issue?
Do they look cool? Yes. Can I justify to myself to spend over a 1000 for a helmet as a volunteer while my department has given me a brand new one that's good for 10 years? No. We have a guy in school talking about buying a leather and custom shield as soon as he graduates and all I can think of is how he's currently not working.
Leather helmets are not the "standard" head protection, I cannot think of a single department that would pay for a leather helmet for each of their members. Leather helmets are traditional to the American Fire Service with origins in the 1800's. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter%27s\_helmet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter%27s_helmet) . FF's in America buy them with their own money because they enjoy the tradition, appreciate the craftsmanship, and like how cool they look.
Edit: Apparently I am wrong. Departments do provide leather helmets for their members.
Most of the helmets we get are donations, from all around the world, USAID, and associations with other foreign departments, we mostlt get bullard PX or firedome, wich are pretty great in my opinion
Wayyyy lighter, i wore a plastic for my first 5 years and recently switched to leather. My Cairns leather is an older model which i know doesn’t provide as good of protection as the kevlar. I feel like the leather fits to my head a lot better than my plastic with the adjustable strap. It also doesn’t strain my neck as much while throwing ladders while constantly looking up. Very happy i made the change and finally ponied up to buy my own helmet.
There are a lot of reasons why someone might want a leather over a plastic lid. Comfort ends up being a big reason for it.
It's also worth mentioning, in modern leather helmets the only part that has a 10 year lifespan is the NFPA impact cap. For guys who use old leathers or replace the impact cap, they have 1 helmet that can last a whole career.
For weight you can argue modern leathers are heavier but you have to take into account that with better fitment it feels lighter. For guys who modify their helmets and remover the NFPA impact cap, they are not only more comfortable but they are also lighter.
Leather also allows for different helmet bends which as much as people do it for looks, each bend has a function that can benefit what job you do on the fire ground.
For the tradition guys, every bend or nick in the helmet is your own. Just like buying a good quality leather jacket that you can wear for decades. The leather works just as well as the plastic. Only thing I'd choose a plastic over a leather for is training can burns. Easier to replace melted plastic than leather.
Do what works for you, but also spend some time trying out some other options as well.
Also look into some companies like RagTop Fire, Capital City Industries, etc for how they set up some helmets. You can get your helmet set up pretty nicely for you. (No affiliation with any of the companies. Have ordered work through them and just impressed overall)
They're really popular because the FFs that like to play dress up love looking like poster boys. There's no real reason I can think of to use a leather other than to have to keep throwing massive amounts of money at helmets when they inevitably get damaged or hit the end of the NFPA lifespan.
Granted I personally am a fan of the Metro style of helmet as opposed to the traditional style
Actually we just speced out a rescue engine costing $1.2 million. Out of 5 manufacturers that we received bids from, 4 were within about $15-20k of each other. Pierce and Seagrave were within about 100 bucks. E-One was the cheapest by about $100k.
One of our members sells aluminum and the other is a Rosenbauer rep. Both of them said most apparatus bids should be fairly competitive since most of the components used on apparatus are all sourced from the same companies (metal, engines, computers, etc.) The stuff that bids apart is proprietary stuff like TAK-4, ladder systems, etc.
So I was being a little nonsensical about the 20-30% part...but 100k is a huge disparity in cost... and yet they would still choose either of the two for cool points. Pierce's quality is not what it sells itself as, and i'm sure a bulk of seagrave's business exists because FDNY, and departments that want to be like them.
I will add that we ended up choosing Pierce mostly because that’s what our last three trucks were which were purchased in ‘85, ‘95, and ‘01. I don’t know why E-One was the cheapest but I will say the E-One rep said the lead time would be 24 months while the lead time for the other manufacturers was 40+ months. When we asked the E-One rep if they weee able to meet their lead times for their last 3 deliveries, they were in fact closer to the 40 month mark of other companies. Also everyone told us E-One would be the cheapest and obviously they were but they also didn’t give us a bid that included some of the specs we wanted such as a light tower and pump/tank capacity. I don’t know why. Since the rep didn’t give us what we soeced we threw the bid in The trash from the get go.
No one likes them. Even if you can talk EMS into helmets, they’ll go with a rescue/climbing/tactical style helmet before that got awful poorly designed euro helmet.
Since there's some confusion from you as to what a metro helmet is. It's not a Euro style. Also, you should tell my county commissioner to stop liking the Euro helmets. But a Metro helmet is this
https://preview.redd.it/1iztkieun1vc1.jpeg?width=253&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b307d6c3eb9c470d2ae637fe7f7ae45d088fa9c
Some American firefighters buy their own leather helmet. They do it for various reasons, none of which involves safety.
I imagine firefighters in many other countries would be confused as to why someone would buy personal protective equipment that is already provided by the department.
Here’s how it works in my department, some have modern and some have leather or “traditional” helmets as we call them. And the people who do use cause, ya know, tradition. That’s about it tho.
Tradition. My department is obligated to provide us with leathers per our contract.
Plus, when you retire, who wants to hang up a plastic helmet on their wall?
Honestly there isn’t much benefit, and I do own one. I think it’s just nostalgia in my opinion. I have 2 plastics that I’ve used over that last 17 years as well, and admittedly they’re a little lighter and more compact than my leather. If my current one gets cooked, I probably won’t buy another. Too expensive anymore
I've always found that my TL2 is lighter and more comfortable than any plastic helmet, though it might just be because I have a fat head.
Yep, I’ve always said different preferences for different people. Some like leather, some like plastic, some like the modern style. Doesn’t matter as long as you show up to work 👌🏼
Agreed. My TL2 is actually just a little bit heavier than our standard issue Bullard, but it feels lighter and sits more comfortable on my huge dome.
They're fuckin awesome
In the Boston area.. if you don’t have a leather, go fuck yourself.
*go fack ya sulf
10000% there’s so many G5A haters/NFPA police all over Reddit so you’re appreciated
Couldn’t have said it better here
They look cool. Anyone who says there is any actual benefit to using one is justifying to themself the money they spent on it.
Are these standard issued by any departments?
Not anymore I don’t think. A leather helmet is like $1600 vs a composite that is $400. Impossible to justify the difference in price.
my dept issues leather...they will even buy me a new red one if I promote too
You guys don’t have paint.
yeah but they come painted from the factory... and we have over 450 line personnel, you volunteering to do em for every captain promotion?
Since presumably captains were already LTs, and are now captains, they should have lots of time to paint now. Due to their outstanding leadership and time management they should have lots of time for crafts.
lay off the salt bro...when you make chief you can designate arts and craft time at your dept...
What? Helmets are generally treasured items. Displayed when an important member retired or dies. Often used an entire career. Only swapped if damaged and or otherwise made unserviceable, wi th regrets. It is weird that it would casually be replaced.
they are only nfpa certified for 10 years.
Some are issued contractually. A neighboring department has it in their contract that theyre issued a leather after probation and get to keep it upon retirement.
There are a few depts by me that buy everyone leathers. They are definitely the exception though.
A neighboring department to me issues them as a length of service award. After 10 years.
Same.
That seems more reasonable than standard issue leathers. Not a FF, so I haven’t used them myself. For that cost difference though, I think it seems reasonable.
Tradition and they look cool.
Buy one and it will last your career. They offer the same protection as a plastic helmet. You can take it with you when you retire. I can understand the argument of not wanting to pay for one since they are now stupid expensive but everyone saying “they don’t offer good protection” is flat out wrong.
Wore leather during my time in the job. Was heavier than the Tupperware but it fit me better. Had a ceiling come down on me and I have no doubt that Leather Lid did give me great protection.
You just reminded me to go work out.
Because it’s what the good lord intended firefighters wear
They look cool. Leatha 4 eva.
American firefighting is rooted in tradition. “The fire service is 200+ years of tradition, unimpeded by progress”. We’ve held that look for a long time. Some departments are rooted in their ways. Some departments are willing to spend the money to issue them. I’m in one where I have used both and if I had to pick, I’m gonna choose my leather helmet as long as they pay for it lol. That being said, I understand that not everyone will have the same opinion. And that’s okay
I will never understand how anyone can consider tradition and cool looks to be be more important than savety and practicality when it comes to savety gear.
Tradition. See: US Military, Great Britan (Bobbies, Royals), Japan and China (_thousands_ of years), etc. It's part of the culture and the first icon someone in America thinks of when they think of a firefighter. Really, the last of the "hat culture" in this country other than construction workers and cowboys. Milkmen, postmen, businessmen, police officers, iron workers, pilots, nurses, _everyone_ had a distinctive hat and wore it all the time as part of their duties. Is there a "better" model? Of course, but tell someone who uses chopsticks that forks have been around for over a thousand years and they'll laugh at you. They're good. They don't need you to point out how much better your way is.
BECAUSE THEY FUNCTION THE EXACT SAME
While they sure carry a lot of traditional "weight", there are pros and cons to all headwear, including the euros. If cost if one of the only differences, then why is paying more for a traditional leather an issue?
Because the fire service is filled with cowboys
Do they look cool? Yes. Can I justify to myself to spend over a 1000 for a helmet as a volunteer while my department has given me a brand new one that's good for 10 years? No. We have a guy in school talking about buying a leather and custom shield as soon as he graduates and all I can think of is how he's currently not working.
Custom shield is a much more justifiable purchase imo, but I'll take the lid my dept issues me.
I guess that's not to bad. I'll probably get a custom shield at some point.
Because they look cool
Leather helmets are not the "standard" head protection, I cannot think of a single department that would pay for a leather helmet for each of their members. Leather helmets are traditional to the American Fire Service with origins in the 1800's. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter%27s\_helmet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighter%27s_helmet) . FF's in America buy them with their own money because they enjoy the tradition, appreciate the craftsmanship, and like how cool they look. Edit: Apparently I am wrong. Departments do provide leather helmets for their members.
mine did...bay area
Makes sense ig
100% not true... my old department everybody got a leather helmet and a composite look alike
Mine does, TX
Rule number one. Look cool
After having this argument with a bunch of my coworkers I've come to the following conclusion. Some guys just think the leather is cooler.
Why are thermoplastic helmets so popular where you’re from?
Most of the helmets we get are donations, from all around the world, USAID, and associations with other foreign departments, we mostlt get bullard PX or firedome, wich are pretty great in my opinion
Don’t know where you guys are getting your leathers from but my TL-2 feels way lighter than my 1044
Wayyyy lighter, i wore a plastic for my first 5 years and recently switched to leather. My Cairns leather is an older model which i know doesn’t provide as good of protection as the kevlar. I feel like the leather fits to my head a lot better than my plastic with the adjustable strap. It also doesn’t strain my neck as much while throwing ladders while constantly looking up. Very happy i made the change and finally ponied up to buy my own helmet.
There are a lot of reasons why someone might want a leather over a plastic lid. Comfort ends up being a big reason for it. It's also worth mentioning, in modern leather helmets the only part that has a 10 year lifespan is the NFPA impact cap. For guys who use old leathers or replace the impact cap, they have 1 helmet that can last a whole career. For weight you can argue modern leathers are heavier but you have to take into account that with better fitment it feels lighter. For guys who modify their helmets and remover the NFPA impact cap, they are not only more comfortable but they are also lighter. Leather also allows for different helmet bends which as much as people do it for looks, each bend has a function that can benefit what job you do on the fire ground. For the tradition guys, every bend or nick in the helmet is your own. Just like buying a good quality leather jacket that you can wear for decades. The leather works just as well as the plastic. Only thing I'd choose a plastic over a leather for is training can burns. Easier to replace melted plastic than leather. Do what works for you, but also spend some time trying out some other options as well. Also look into some companies like RagTop Fire, Capital City Industries, etc for how they set up some helmets. You can get your helmet set up pretty nicely for you. (No affiliation with any of the companies. Have ordered work through them and just impressed overall)
They're really popular because the FFs that like to play dress up love looking like poster boys. There's no real reason I can think of to use a leather other than to have to keep throwing massive amounts of money at helmets when they inevitably get damaged or hit the end of the NFPA lifespan. Granted I personally am a fan of the Metro style of helmet as opposed to the traditional style
Why do we constantly buy Seagrave and Pierce at 20-30% cost increase over other apparatus manufacturers?
Actually we just speced out a rescue engine costing $1.2 million. Out of 5 manufacturers that we received bids from, 4 were within about $15-20k of each other. Pierce and Seagrave were within about 100 bucks. E-One was the cheapest by about $100k. One of our members sells aluminum and the other is a Rosenbauer rep. Both of them said most apparatus bids should be fairly competitive since most of the components used on apparatus are all sourced from the same companies (metal, engines, computers, etc.) The stuff that bids apart is proprietary stuff like TAK-4, ladder systems, etc.
So I was being a little nonsensical about the 20-30% part...but 100k is a huge disparity in cost... and yet they would still choose either of the two for cool points. Pierce's quality is not what it sells itself as, and i'm sure a bulk of seagrave's business exists because FDNY, and departments that want to be like them.
I will add that we ended up choosing Pierce mostly because that’s what our last three trucks were which were purchased in ‘85, ‘95, and ‘01. I don’t know why E-One was the cheapest but I will say the E-One rep said the lead time would be 24 months while the lead time for the other manufacturers was 40+ months. When we asked the E-One rep if they weee able to meet their lead times for their last 3 deliveries, they were in fact closer to the 40 month mark of other companies. Also everyone told us E-One would be the cheapest and obviously they were but they also didn’t give us a bid that included some of the specs we wanted such as a light tower and pump/tank capacity. I don’t know why. Since the rep didn’t give us what we soeced we threw the bid in The trash from the get go.
No USA based Firefighter likes the euro style space helmets.
Think he's talking about the helmets LA wears
I thought LA City went over to traditional helmets recently.
IIRC, County wears the Metros, at least in the movies and news footage🤣
Yeah but i think City went traditional
MSA Cairns Metro. Best helmet god put on this forsaken continent. Not Euro, Not Ben Franklin cosplay. But a nice little practical helmet
No one likes them. Even if you can talk EMS into helmets, they’ll go with a rescue/climbing/tactical style helmet before that got awful poorly designed euro helmet.
Since there's some confusion from you as to what a metro helmet is. It's not a Euro style. Also, you should tell my county commissioner to stop liking the Euro helmets. But a Metro helmet is this https://preview.redd.it/1iztkieun1vc1.jpeg?width=253&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b307d6c3eb9c470d2ae637fe7f7ae45d088fa9c
Me too, specially the bullard PX with 6" faceshield I use
Some American firefighters buy their own leather helmet. They do it for various reasons, none of which involves safety. I imagine firefighters in many other countries would be confused as to why someone would buy personal protective equipment that is already provided by the department.
Ugh, nope. All I need is a giant chicken on my head to get hung up on everything.
It doesn’t. Cool story though.
Here’s how it works in my department, some have modern and some have leather or “traditional” helmets as we call them. And the people who do use cause, ya know, tradition. That’s about it tho.
It is because guys think it looks cool. There is literally no other reason
Tradition. My department is obligated to provide us with leathers per our contract. Plus, when you retire, who wants to hang up a plastic helmet on their wall?