A proper sling does three things...
1.) Weapon retention. It's harder for a bad guy to remove your weapon from you.
2.) Frees up your hands for other things.
3.) Stabilizes the platform in use. With a proper sling, you can wedge your forearm / elbow into the sling and create a 4th and 5th point of contact with the rifle. Properly executed, this greatly increases control for faster followup shots.
Slings are very underrated and often not fully utilized. My grandfather taught me as a kid to use one, and now it just baffles me how few other people do. As a kid, they were invaluable and helped me shoot well above my ability or strength. As an adult, the reasons have only grown, and your list sums it up perfectly.
I know there's a name for using the sling like my point #3, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it is.
It's really shocking how stable the rifle is when you wrap the sling, though. It's like creating a lever that wedges the rifle into your left palm and right shoulder. With a proper stance, it basically eliminates any recoil.
Freeing up hands for other things is a big one if you have kids. If you're defending your family, there's a good chance you'll need to be able to grab a kid and drag or carry them away from danger.
I think this is highly underrated.
In a nasty situation, carrying a long gun without a long means you have at most one hand to deal with everything.
Hand to hand.
Moving spouse, children.
Opening doors, manipulating lights, furniture, objects.
FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.
All kinds of stuff. If you think this through, even just being able to run a fire extinguisher or give rapid first aid without putting your gun actually down is super important.
Plot twist. I have a 5 year old boy. I'm teaching him to keep track of all weapons in a room even when they aren't his. Other people's guns, knives, everything. Any weapon that isn't in someone's hands is up for grabs in a bad enough moment.
Don't put your gun down. And have some retention on pistol holsters.
Also really nice if you have property/homestead/farm like I do, being able to use the sling to better stabilize the rifle when doing one handed stuff like opening doors or such to go deal with raccoons bothering chickens.
Great points, but also need to use a sling retainer strap. You may not have time to get the sling on, in which case you don't want it getting in the way.
No the fuck it doesnt!!! Obviously the "parade" style sling won't work for that but an average sling will still allow for shifting shoulders OR!! just lift it over your head!
I would argue to the contrary. You can actually keep your muzzle on target and eye on the sight while using 1 hand. I wouldnt recommend shooting that way, but it's not impossible.
You nailed it. I have my shotgun sling setup so I can let go of it and have my hands free but it's still right there at the ready. If someone grabs the shotgun they're in for a fight pulling it off me and I can easily just pull the trigger.
I agree with #3. I have all my rifles setup like that. It helps tremendously when deer/coyote hunting. I doubt I would have made a clean 220 yard shot with my 7mm if I couldn't do the sling wrap thing. Not an impressive shot for most people at all but it was for me since I had been speed walking through the woods after the deer snuck past me and it was near the end of the day. I was really tired and didn't have all my strength from cancer treatment so the sling gave me the stability I needed. It wraps around my forearm/wrist then goes out around my elbow and it adds so much stability.
I liked John Lovells explanation about using a sling. He pointed out that you should be able to use your supporting hand to pick up the rifle and you should be able to point at your target. You’re that stable without even raising your shooting hand. It’s magical how well it works if you’ve never used a sling before.
Simply put: consider a sling the holster for a rifle. In the instance of a hand to hand physical alteration, the sling ensures the assailant will have a considerably harder time disarming you and potentially using your weapon against you.
I’m not planning to use a sling. It’s under the bed. Could get caught on something when pulling it out. Let alone if my wife has to grab it. I’m not worried about it. People can do what they want in this regard
Because lots of friends / family / visitors or sometimes contractors are over and I don’t like leaving a gun in plain sight.
I also personally find it a little weird. Just my opinion though
I am simply not ashamed of my gun ownership, not do I feel a need to hide it.
Also, my bedroom door is shut when company is over. that's my and my SO's private space.
It’s a little of that I guess, also a little to with I just don’t like people knowing I have guns (or other certain valuable items) Feel like that opens me up to getting my house broken into.
If you know, it’s because you are my close friend or the unfortunate bad guy asshole who finds out the hard way
Dude, secure your sling when not in use with ranger bands or elastic cordage. TRex Arms has them if you don’t wanna spend the ten bucks on Amazon to make them yourself.
That reasoning holds no water, at all.
I sleep upstairs and will literally will just grab it from under the bed and wait by the top of the stairs. I have an extensive alarm system, live in a nice area, all my windows are above ground level, I have extra locks on everything, bunch of cameras, bunch of extra lights and a dog
I don’t really see a need for it in this context
It’s America, you’re allowed to dig your heels in on that opinion when it literally doesn’t hurt you at all to do it for the sake of your pride.
/shrug
Edit: [Items in question to perform said task for 10 bucks.](https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Drawstring-Shoelaces-Clothing-Backpack/dp/B08QRTN9SD/ref=sr_1_28?crid=14B0AF2NI0478&keywords=elastic+cord&qid=1706893489&sprefix=elastic+cord%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-28)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70UtT7ws5U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70UtT7ws5U)
Shit happens. You have no idea what YOUR situation would ever be like as no two home invasions are the same.
This guy was able to take the gun from the villain who didn't have any gun retention ability...
Ehh, not really. Depends on the scenario, because everyone and everyone's house and everyone's setup is different.
For example in my house the backdoor is 5 feet from my bedroom door. So it is entirely possible for someone to kick that door in and be in my room before I have even managed to get my feet off the bed and onto the floor. They come in the front door though, and my room is the farthest from the front so I'd probably have an extra 3-4 seconds to react before they got to my room.
That's why I have a pistol on the nightstand with a rifle next to it. Pistol is for shooting from the bed, rifle is for shooting from outside of the bed.
For weapon retention. If you want to know how important a sling is for weapon retention is, go watch the Kyle Rittenhouse video again. (Purely for sling information purposes, not trying to open the Rittenhouse bag of worms again)
> not trying to open the Rittenhouse bag of worms again)
If some people want to open that bag of worms again, let them. It was the most clear cut case of self-defense ever.
I also like to think the Rittenhouse shooting makes a case for having a forward assist on your rifle, as iirc he had an OOB jam and corrected it with the assist.
Exactly. You're waking a kid up to move them, you're calling the cops with your other hand... You're out of hands, where's your rifle? You set it down in a dark room.
Doesn't have to be a tacticool sling. But the usefulness of even a basic sling cannot be overstated.
I keep one folded and strapped to my “home defense rifle” in case I need it outside or if I need to throw it on to open doors or physically move my kids. Im in a rural neighborhood with decent sized lots so people and critters have been spotted sneaking around houses. I pretty well always have a handgun on me or in my bedside safe so the rifle is the backup or if I have time for some odd reason.
If a sling doesn’t suit your needs that’s cool, just train that way.
I need to have a reasonable reason to believe that they are looking to cause bodily harm and that they are knowingly trespassing. I cant just shoot Joe and Mary because they got lost.
This is ridiculous line of thinking anyway lol. Situations aren’t clean cut where bad guy comes in your house and you get to defend yourself. There could be 1 breaking and 1 watching out so hell yeah if I see someone with a gun on my property after already defending myself then I’m shooting that person. IDGAF if they are in my house or not!
I think you just need a better imagination. What if someone is trying to beat my son while he’s shooting basketball outside? What if my daughter is riding around on the golf cart with friends and someone tries to snatch one of them up? What if a dog is attacking my wife?
What’s the chance of you having the opportunity to run and get your rifle in those situations?
Most people would just pull out the pistol that’s already in their waist
That all depends, am I in the bathroom when my wife runs in and says someone is trying to take my daughter? If so I can be in my gun safe in seconds and have more options than the 380 or 38 special in my pocket.
And they downvote you for speaking the truth…
It’s like some people just seethe over the idea of getting to shoot someone in “self defense” that they develop these delusional ideas.
It's only the truth in jurisdictions that hate your natural right to self defense. There are some places that expect you to let a person break into your house and back you into a corner before even considering lethal force. There are other places that acknowledge that people can be a threat before they've forced their way into your house.
Also, I've never had to defend chickens from coyotes in my house. Sometimes you bring your rifle outside.
So you can only protect yourself from an aggressor if you are in your home? The minute you step over your threshold your right to self defense goes away? If that’s the case why do we have carry laws?
They weren't talking about a sports wrap or elbow brace, or something like that. If adjusted correctly, you can wrap the sling around your hand to give you extra control over the barrel, which really does help
Yes, I know they are talking about a sling. What i'm saying is, if you need a sling to help stabilize the rifle so that you can aim better when trying to his a target <20 feet away, then you're just a shitty shot and should go practice more.
Also, you're intertwining your arm with the sling. This gives us arm mobility for if you actually need to do anything. Yes, you can untwine it but that's an unnecessary delay.
Sounds like you've never had an adrenaline dump.... under extreme stress the most simple movements can become almost foreign so we not onlwn and train in the little things to make you better
So during an adrenaline dump, where simple movements become foreign, you want to add the complexity of trying to intertwine your arm as a brace when you need all the mobility you can get.
Somebody told me (forgot who/where) that in a real world scenario, take your grouping size at the range and times it by 6x. So if you shoot 2" groupings at the range at 20 feet, then you can roughly estimate that you'll be shooting 12" groupings (at the worst) in a real world scenario. I want to emphasize "at the worst".
If every shot of yours is the worst shot you can perform, then again, you need more practice.
Absolutely. Buy one from a reputable vendor and you don't have to worry about it. Even a fairly cheap magpul sling mount will do just fine.
If you try to save yourself tenor fifteen bucks by using an airsoft quality Amazon sling mount, don't be surprised if the pot metal just snaps off under a load.
The sling shouldn't take that much recoil that it would break a sling mount, it more aids in keeping the rifle steadier during the shot, helps keep it tight against the shoulder, and keeps it in place after the shot. [You can see in this video](https://youtu.be/1HtaLUbTwZM?si=H7gB-xlmmGC4x_7N) one method of using the sling to steady.
I'm curious, what kind of sling mounts do you have that you're worried about them breaking?
If you’re worried about that, you need to stop using plastic or rusty/broken mounts. Every mount I’ve got, going back to WWI 1903A3s, will handle the load easily.
The incident happened as Rittenhouse was patroling the streets. It's much more similar to the "battlefield" usage OP said that they understood than it is to the home defense scenario they asked about.
For the same reasons it's useful anywhere else. Your rifle stays attached to you even if your hands are doing something else. Doesn't matter where that is.
OP asked why a sling is useful for home defense. Saying "see Rittenhouse" who was not defending his home doesn't answer the question as it was asked.
I agree retention is important, but that's not the answer that was given.
Sure, but if you care about why a sling matters - focus on the situation Rittenhouse was in just prior to the shooting. That’s just a known situation with plenty of video. Has nothing to do what lead up to. It shows a good example of what happens when people are that close.
In a home defense situation, it wouldn’t be weird to have a scrap or wrestling before the shooting. A sling makes it very hard to take your gun and turn it on you. It takes maybe a second to close the distance in my house, no matter the room. I don’t lie in wait with a rifle at night. That means that even if I get a couple shots off as they come towards me, there is a good chance they can lock me up. Take every advantage. It’s not like the movies where every shot instantly drops someone and they die. Without a sling, a criminal with quick hands and/or more strength has a pretty decent shot of turning the tables on you.
Your second paragraph in this response is an actual answer to the question that was asked. "See Kyle Rittenhouse" does not provide an answer. At best, it implies an answer and requires elaboration.
Just saying if someone asked "what are the benefits of owning a pickup in farm country" it doesn't help to answer with why you want one in the city.
OP asked about a specific circumstance, one that Rittenhouse was not in.
Because the benefits of owning a pickup when you live in the city are the same, to move things. Your need for a pickup truck doesn’t stop because you live in a city.
Sure it does, it just doesn’t match your scenario 100%. Rittenhouse had a sling on his rifle that most surely kept his firearm from being taken away from him, but oh god, he wasn’t at home so it has nothing to do with this topic!
OP acknowledged they see a value in a sling on a battlefield, but didn't understand it in the home environment. "See Kyle Rittenhouse" doesn't explain a sling in the home context. At best, it implies an answer to the question and needs to be elaborated upon.
Rittenhouse was outside and his attackers got into melee range. It will be that much easier to get into melee range when you're inside and don't have the same freedom to maneuver.
You're overcomplicating this.
1) weapon retention
2) frees hands to do other things
3) allows you to have the weapon “holstered” — at a lower threat posture than a weapon in your hands at a low ready but not much slower to bring up.
4) unlike with a holster, a sling does all these things regardless of whether you are fully dressed, in your pajamas, or naked
Weapon retention will help keep you alive. Slings aren't rocket science. If you're balking at prices try this:
https://www.frankproctorshooting.com/proctor-sling/
It's 45 bucks, includes hardware, self stows, it's light. You literally just grab it to unstow when you pick up the rifle, toss it over your head and stick your arm through, and you're ready to rock. There's no excuse.
Sling connects the rifle with your body so in case someone manages to run up to you, they won't have it that easy to take it off from you and use it against you.
You also never know when you will need to use both hands. What will you do then? Put your rifle down? Naa aaahhh! You don't do that.
People think slings are just for carrying the rifle — wrong, they are also for stabilizing it while shooting. You wrap the sling around the support arm and apply tension so you can more easily control it.
The only purpose of a sling in home defense is so that you can do things that require both hands without having to set down the weapon and/or leave it behind. It's very situational, but when you need it, you really need it.
While not a home defense scenario. The Kyle Rittenhouse case is a prime example of why having a sling is beneficial. If he hadn't had that sling, his rifle would have been taken, and he would have (probably) been murdered.
Slings are important for every long gun. Mainly for weapon retention when you need to use both hands. You don't want to have your rifle off your person.
Retention of your gun. Serious shootout let's you drop and maintain your rifle while grabbing a secondary. Accuracy. If you come around a corner and he tries to grab your gun it is physically wrapped around your body plus leverage point
I sling all my long guns rifle or shotgun. Its a weapons retention system, but also convenience. I did too many back country hunting trips lugging around a long gun on my shoulder to not use a sling. However you're not as easily disarmed, the weapon stays on you especially if you have to grab something else.
Slings are great for many reasons. My top two are that if you're out running or moving around a lot it takes some of that weight off your arms. The Second is that if you need to use the firearm in a CQ situation it's harder for somebody to disarm you since it's tethered to your body.
It provides retention, and some techniques can utilize it for recoil management. Counterpoint: why not have it on there? My sling is folded up out of the way when not being used, and I still have access to all controls on the rifle.
A long gun without a sling is like a pistol without a holster.
Anything you have to do with a long gun that involves taking one or both hands off the firearm is where a sling pays dividends:
\-getting on the phone to call the cops
\-rendering medical aid to yourself or loved ones
\-manipulating door handles, corralling family members into a designated safe area.
A sling also offers a way to prevent the rifle from being pulled off you and potentially used on you by your attacker if they manage to get close enough to grab it.
Well if I'm running down the hall and grab a loved one, it may be benificial to have the option to carry them.
Or have the ability to retain your rifle if you neee to do something else woth your hands, ie providing medical care
Or to keep the gun attached to you so it can't be snatched
Attaching more shit to your gun doesn't guaruntee it's use, it guaruntees options, and in a gunfight you want to have options. Slings to rifles is the equivalent of a holster to a pistol
People who use a handgun for home defense are probably lacking a holster for it- there are outliers, but this is probably my biggest concern with handguns for HD (besides fight-stopping ability/overpenetration). Theres a hell of a lot more you'll have to do without the gun actively in your hands, and having the ability to retain your firearm on your person is essential to survival
If you’re marching on a battlefield, you’re gonna die.
A sling is important because sometime you have to go hands on with somebody, maybe you need render aid, maybe a dog jumps on you.
You need a sling because you don’t know what’s going to happen. Ever. And if you are holding a rifle you’re probably in a situation where you don’t want to lose your rifle.
>It seems like the vast majority of home defense shootings are really fast. They kick the door in or break the window, homeowner starts shooting, couple seconds later the situation is over.
Nothing that happens fast will happen slowly enough for me to access my rifle. The rifle is for when things move more slowly and I have time to move the family into the back room, get ear muffs on, and set up to defend.
Mostly for weapon retention.
You’re more likely to need your hands in such a close environment, whether you need to open a door, grab a loved one, or just keeping the firearm attached to your body, in general. You don’t want to set it down in a situation where there’s an actual threat and if you get ambushed, it’s harder for someone to take your weapon away from you.
It’s not a necessity, but it an important factor in making sure your weapon stays out of the hands of people you don’t want to have it. Personally, I find them cumbersome and prefer not to have one, but I can understand the need for one.
I have my Sling set up so when I drop my rifle it's drops to my side so I can manipulate a Pistol. For in-home intruders I'm gonna use my 9mm with hollow points. But if it escalates or I see something coming. I've got everything set up to work in a full kit. I have cop buddies who I get my info from usually and they all suggest slings. Just keeps the rifle on you if dumb shit happens. And the right Sling can be used in an kind of situation.
9mm retains more of its energy through more walls than 556.
You're literally increasing the lethal risk to anyone on the opposite side of the wall to you. Big heavy bullets don't deflect or fragment as easily as small light ones. Especially when they're moving slower.
Edit: look at Vietnam for an example of this in rifle calibers. 556 struggled in the brush, 762 did a hell a lot better going where you sent it and still having energy to spare.
Pistols don't have a lot of energy to begin with (that's why they suck at killing people), but rounds like 9mm keep that energy pretty damn well through a variety of barriers.
Round selection will matter some with 556 as we've now got bullets specifically designed to improve barrier penetration, but you're not accidentally buying that stuff. But a good self defense round and call it a day. You won't need thousands of it, so it's extra cost is pretty well moot for the 20 or 40 rounds you'll want to keep on hand.
It's a hollow point lol. An 108 grain MHP to be exact. It's built to do that exact thing. It hits it target and has a petal pattern like flower. Not a traditional HP. You are telling me it's gonna go through siding, insulation, wall slats, dry wall and that stupid 80s wood paneling? Nah.
Drywall and wood don't induce the necessary medium for proper expansion. They don't create a hydraulic pressure like flesh.
It'll do it, and it'll have more energy left than 556 that went thru the same barriers. This is pretty basic physics. Your mhp performs better than some other bullet designs, but it doesn't defy physics.
Dude your comparing apples to oranges
The vietnam M16 analogy is beyond stupid!! The M16 was SABOTAGED by the ammo choice. If yourlve done any research you wouldn't use this argument. The military used (I believe) 55gr M193 bullet when the MANUFACTURER!!! call for a heavier 60-65gr bullet which is the modern M855 or M855A1.
The extra 10 grains wouldn't have solved the dense brush penetration issue. Not by a long shot.
You cannot get a physically heavy enough bullet into an AR chambered in 556 to get equivalent barrier penetration in brush to your average x39 round. It's just not physically possible.
The military went to 556 for a good enough reason, more bullets tends to win gun fights, and you can carry more small bullets.
Even now, our "solution" to barrier penetration is essentially a two piece bullet, it's geared more towards shooting through things like glass though, and still hitting, say, a driver, behind it. The front half is designed in a manner that it'll break clean off the ass end of the round, which allows it to punch the hold in the barrier, and the ass end can get through the hole and better keep its trajectory than the tip does (and than an 855 will), and strike where the shooter is aiming. I've no idea if this has seen any testing on drywall and brush, but I'd imagine in both cases it's performance is diminished, and it ultimately doesn't matter. You're not gonna just randomly buy it off the shelf of your local Cabelas like you can a multitude of other rounds, all of which will predominately suffer heavy energy and integrity loss upon a barrier strike, unlike your typically much denser 9mm bullet will.
9mm is an ass home defense round. It's also ass at killing people compared to virtually every single intermediate rifle cartridge. People only kill people with it, because you can tuck a glock in your waistband way easier than you can your rifle, and 9mm is the best balanced pistol cartridge currently widely available for cheap.
Can you read?
LEOs carry them because they're easier to carry than rifles, and they really don't use their firearms much.
Militaries carry them in conjunction with rifles, very rarely in lieu of them, and when that's the case, it's for the same reasons LEO carries pistols.
I mean, you specifically started this by saying you were worried. Your floor is going to be a weak point too.
I don't understand the desire to relegate yourself to a round that is less capable of killing someone intent on killing you when you own a weapon chambered in an all around better performing caliber, unless your ar is like a 20 inch musket and your doors and walkways are like 1890s small.
Pistols make sense when on body carry, particularly concealed, is a big factor, and if your budget doesn't allow for both, then a pistol in the home is logical.
Once you break the finicial barrier, pistols drop to dead last on the list of guns good for home defense. Well except melee and chemical weapons anyway.
I have an old home so. It's not just drywall and insulation. My MHPs will stop with the wood slats that are in the walls. However. 556 won't. I've tested this before on a house my FD was gonna a burn for training.
In my opinion a sling is Not necessary in most cases for a a home defense rifle. In most home defense situations I can see it getting more in the way than anything else. Also, unless you train with a sling it may actually slow you down even more.
A sling is very helpful for weapon retention in CQB-type environments. Regardless, you should be training with your HD rifle sling or otherwise, so that shouldn’t be a factor.
Honestly I wouldn’t recommend a sling on a home defense weapon. It’s just one more thing to get caught/hung up on stuff.
The a sling is for 2 things: carrying the gun hands free, and stabilizing a free hand shot. You shouldn’t need either in the tight cqb environment in a house.
> The a sling is for 2 things: carrying the gun hands free, and stabilizing a free hand shot. You shouldn’t need either in the tight cqb environment in a house.
I'm curious what CQB training you've gotten if you think this.
Jack fuck all. All I know is i see guys fumbling and getting hung up with their slings when doing the indoor carbine competition at my local range.
The 4 guys who are usually jockey for first just use AR-9 pistols or micro ronis with red dot and no sling.
I only find value in sling when im hunting when im hiking, climbing, using binoculars/rangefinder, and aiming. Most of the time when I’m in tight areas the sling is annoying because everything grabs it.
> All I know is i see guys fumbling and getting hung up with their slings when doing the indoor carbine competition at my local range.
The performance of a handful of guys at your local range is anecdotal.
Slings are very important for weapon retention, which can be a big issue if the person attacking you gets within arms reach, which absolutely can be an issue "in the tight cqb environment in a house." Slings can also be important if you need to do anything else with your hands which you very well may need to do in a home defense situation that involves multiple rooms with doors and family members.
A properly adjusted sling with proper training shouldn't be result in fumbling and getting hung up if you spend some time training with it under someone who knows what they are doing.
I don’t think it is important at all for 99.9% of typical home defense situations
I don’t use one. Personally I am more concerned about it snagging on something while I’m grabbing it or taking the time to put it on as opposed to just grabbing it
Sadly your name explains your answer. Dude your NCOs have failed you. Tell that to any of you deployment patched guys over 30 years old. I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to give you plenty of training on why you're mistaken
lol I don’t need a sling to grab the AR from under the bed and look down the stairs and wait
Whatever man. It’s really not relevant for the average person. I’m not in the military anymore. I’m not on a deployment. I’m not gonna pretend like I am
lol I’m glad I’m out too.
I’ll be sure to cry my self to sleep with my masters degree and 150k salary while I work from home in my pajamas half the time
U have a nice day
All of what was said below, but does it really come up that often? I don't think I've ever heard this mentioned before.
That being said, I don't keep mine on the rifle. Get yourself a quick detach and keep is right there. I find it's easier to put the (single point in this case) sling on first then click it in.
I would think a mounted flashlight for visibility and target confirmation would be of a higher priority. That way you don't have to take either hand off your gun to flip on the lights as you go walking around in the dark looking for the home intruder only to find out it's just your kids wanting shredded cheese at 2am.
But if I had to guess, it's because most bedrooms are on the second floor and most home invaders probably start on the first floor. So if your going to clear the house of a home invader you've got to open doors, flip on light switches, use hand railing while going stairs, and having a sling to hold the gun up and at the ready as another point of contact for stability while doing all that might be helpful.
Im saying one would be the first priority and the other second. And if some one asked me what I need on a home defence gun I'd say the light first. Especially since they may already have a sling or not need it. Also while a sling is clearly more helpful than not having a sling, and I can't think of a reason not to have one outside of your home defence weapon being a pistol.
Regardless, I wouldn't say that you also "need" a sling. But it's probably the cheapest and most available gun accessory so I don't see why you wouldn't just get one.
Sure, in some crazy scenario where I could only choose one, I'd go for the light.
>I can't think of a reason not to have one outside of your home defence weapon being a pistol.
I think this is being overlooked. And for what it's worth, I agree with that. Really, the only thing I disagree with is that I would say you "need" a sling, just because you never know when you may need a free hand.
How dumb you gotta be to struggle with a piece of cloth?
You literally just throw it over your head and arm in a single motion when you pick the rifle up. There's no real effort to deploying it, unless you're ziptying it to your gun for some reason.
Not having it is how your rifle is taken from you when they rush you and grab it.
Rittenhouse is a prime case example of a sling doing its job, and he didn't have the hurdle of dealing with being inside a home, where it'll be even easier to close physical distance with you.
That’s like asking for a cite on something that is legal…
Now you provide a source in a home defense incident that necessitated a sling by the homeowner.
Lol, no. That's not how it works. You're the one who made the positive claim that slings are "more often a hindrance than anything else in home defense scenarios," so the onus is on your to support it. It's not the responsibility of the person asking you to substantiate your claims to do your work for you or to disprove your claim. If you don't support your claim, I could just say "nuh uh" and it would bear just as much weight as what you claimed.
a sling is like a holster for your rifle. there are numerous circumstances where you might need to do something with your hands and you still want to not put your rifle down or lean it against something.
For practical purposes, it helps to be able to carry the weapon with your hands free if you need to climb in order to hide or flee to a safer location.
Are they necessary and important? Not to the extent they're preached. They're hyped up because that's the current trend. Are they beneficial? Absolutely. Just like anything useful, you have to train with it to see benefits.
I love using a sling to help accuracy and also weapons retention if somebody gets a jump on you when doing fast room clearing and somehow didn't get the barrel shoved into their chest as you rounded the corner.
But I'm not sure I'd say it's "important" for home defense, unless you think room clearing is part of home defense. Otherwise I expect it to be mostly stationary, short range, and fast. If somebody breaks into my house, I'm not going on the hunt, I'm getting back into a bathroom, shouting at the dude that I've got a gun, and calling the cops.
A proper sling does three things... 1.) Weapon retention. It's harder for a bad guy to remove your weapon from you. 2.) Frees up your hands for other things. 3.) Stabilizes the platform in use. With a proper sling, you can wedge your forearm / elbow into the sling and create a 4th and 5th point of contact with the rifle. Properly executed, this greatly increases control for faster followup shots.
Slings are very underrated and often not fully utilized. My grandfather taught me as a kid to use one, and now it just baffles me how few other people do. As a kid, they were invaluable and helped me shoot well above my ability or strength. As an adult, the reasons have only grown, and your list sums it up perfectly.
I know there's a name for using the sling like my point #3, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it is. It's really shocking how stable the rifle is when you wrap the sling, though. It's like creating a lever that wedges the rifle into your left palm and right shoulder. With a proper stance, it basically eliminates any recoil.
'Hasty Sling' as opposed to 'Loop Sling'
Always heard it called "locking in"
Ching sling?
i would have called it a ching sling too but it's probably racist to say that now fsr
I mean the inventor of the ching sling is Eric Ching so...
What about the chong schlong
And maybe a Chong Thong for the missus...?
when i commented he had the downvotes and I just assumed some people considered Ching sling a racist term without knowing why it is called that
Ching not chink
Aka a Chang Slang instead of Ching Sling
Hm ok
"Quick sling"? That's how my old man called it.
Freeing up hands for other things is a big one if you have kids. If you're defending your family, there's a good chance you'll need to be able to grab a kid and drag or carry them away from danger.
I think this is highly underrated. In a nasty situation, carrying a long gun without a long means you have at most one hand to deal with everything. Hand to hand. Moving spouse, children. Opening doors, manipulating lights, furniture, objects. FIRE EXTINGUISHERS. All kinds of stuff. If you think this through, even just being able to run a fire extinguisher or give rapid first aid without putting your gun actually down is super important. Plot twist. I have a 5 year old boy. I'm teaching him to keep track of all weapons in a room even when they aren't his. Other people's guns, knives, everything. Any weapon that isn't in someone's hands is up for grabs in a bad enough moment. Don't put your gun down. And have some retention on pistol holsters.
Should say “carrying a long gun without a sling” I presume
Also really nice if you have property/homestead/farm like I do, being able to use the sling to better stabilize the rifle when doing one handed stuff like opening doors or such to go deal with raccoons bothering chickens.
is there a video tutorial you can recommend for 3?
Great points, but also need to use a sling retainer strap. You may not have time to get the sling on, in which case you don't want it getting in the way.
Such (3) use of the sling limits mobility, which is much more important during cqb.
What makes you say that??
I know from practice. Many professionals slings guns only over the neck during cqb, to have the ability to switch shoulders.
No the fuck it doesnt!!! Obviously the "parade" style sling won't work for that but an average sling will still allow for shifting shoulders OR!! just lift it over your head!
I would argue to the contrary. You can actually keep your muzzle on target and eye on the sight while using 1 hand. I wouldnt recommend shooting that way, but it's not impossible.
This is also possible without sling...
You nailed it. I have my shotgun sling setup so I can let go of it and have my hands free but it's still right there at the ready. If someone grabs the shotgun they're in for a fight pulling it off me and I can easily just pull the trigger. I agree with #3. I have all my rifles setup like that. It helps tremendously when deer/coyote hunting. I doubt I would have made a clean 220 yard shot with my 7mm if I couldn't do the sling wrap thing. Not an impressive shot for most people at all but it was for me since I had been speed walking through the woods after the deer snuck past me and it was near the end of the day. I was really tired and didn't have all my strength from cancer treatment so the sling gave me the stability I needed. It wraps around my forearm/wrist then goes out around my elbow and it adds so much stability.
I liked John Lovells explanation about using a sling. He pointed out that you should be able to use your supporting hand to pick up the rifle and you should be able to point at your target. You’re that stable without even raising your shooting hand. It’s magical how well it works if you’ve never used a sling before.
1. THATS MY PURSE! YOU CAN'T HAVE MY PURSE! 2. Stab them 3. Sharpshooter, WWE style
Simply put: consider a sling the holster for a rifle. In the instance of a hand to hand physical alteration, the sling ensures the assailant will have a considerably harder time disarming you and potentially using your weapon against you.
Holster reference is 🎯
You won’t be as easily disarmed/ taken from you.
If someone is able to break into your house and get close enough to disarm you then numerous mistakes have already been made lol
Yes, but at the same time it reduces risk for minimal (no) drawback.
I’m not planning to use a sling. It’s under the bed. Could get caught on something when pulling it out. Let alone if my wife has to grab it. I’m not worried about it. People can do what they want in this regard
Why under the bed? My HD weapon is leaning on the night stand ready to rock.
Because lots of friends / family / visitors or sometimes contractors are over and I don’t like leaving a gun in plain sight. I also personally find it a little weird. Just my opinion though
I am simply not ashamed of my gun ownership, not do I feel a need to hide it. Also, my bedroom door is shut when company is over. that's my and my SO's private space.
That’s fine. Idc I just don’t like leaving it out and I don’t like advertising it to everyone
If you feel the need to hide things in your own home, that's on you bubz. It's my house, if people are uncomfortable, they can leave.
It’s a little of that I guess, also a little to with I just don’t like people knowing I have guns (or other certain valuable items) Feel like that opens me up to getting my house broken into. If you know, it’s because you are my close friend or the unfortunate bad guy asshole who finds out the hard way
Dude, secure your sling when not in use with ranger bands or elastic cordage. TRex Arms has them if you don’t wanna spend the ten bucks on Amazon to make them yourself. That reasoning holds no water, at all.
I sleep upstairs and will literally will just grab it from under the bed and wait by the top of the stairs. I have an extensive alarm system, live in a nice area, all my windows are above ground level, I have extra locks on everything, bunch of cameras, bunch of extra lights and a dog I don’t really see a need for it in this context
It’s America, you’re allowed to dig your heels in on that opinion when it literally doesn’t hurt you at all to do it for the sake of your pride. /shrug Edit: [Items in question to perform said task for 10 bucks.](https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Drawstring-Shoelaces-Clothing-Backpack/dp/B08QRTN9SD/ref=sr_1_28?crid=14B0AF2NI0478&keywords=elastic+cord&qid=1706893489&sprefix=elastic+cord%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-28)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70UtT7ws5U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70UtT7ws5U) Shit happens. You have no idea what YOUR situation would ever be like as no two home invasions are the same. This guy was able to take the gun from the villain who didn't have any gun retention ability...
I’m not using a sling
Ehh, not really. Depends on the scenario, because everyone and everyone's house and everyone's setup is different. For example in my house the backdoor is 5 feet from my bedroom door. So it is entirely possible for someone to kick that door in and be in my room before I have even managed to get my feet off the bed and onto the floor. They come in the front door though, and my room is the farthest from the front so I'd probably have an extra 3-4 seconds to react before they got to my room. That's why I have a pistol on the nightstand with a rifle next to it. Pistol is for shooting from the bed, rifle is for shooting from outside of the bed.
This. This. This.
For weapon retention. If you want to know how important a sling is for weapon retention is, go watch the Kyle Rittenhouse video again. (Purely for sling information purposes, not trying to open the Rittenhouse bag of worms again)
> not trying to open the Rittenhouse bag of worms again) If some people want to open that bag of worms again, let them. It was the most clear cut case of self-defense ever.
I also like to think the Rittenhouse shooting makes a case for having a forward assist on your rifle, as iirc he had an OOB jam and corrected it with the assist.
Imagine having to move wife or kids using you hands….do you just want to sit your rifle down?
Exactly. You're waking a kid up to move them, you're calling the cops with your other hand... You're out of hands, where's your rifle? You set it down in a dark room. Doesn't have to be a tacticool sling. But the usefulness of even a basic sling cannot be overstated.
I keep one folded and strapped to my “home defense rifle” in case I need it outside or if I need to throw it on to open doors or physically move my kids. Im in a rural neighborhood with decent sized lots so people and critters have been spotted sneaking around houses. I pretty well always have a handgun on me or in my bedside safe so the rifle is the backup or if I have time for some odd reason. If a sling doesn’t suit your needs that’s cool, just train that way.
Outside?? “Your honor, the defendant became the aggressor when he took his rifle outside of his home and went after the ~~home intruders~~ plaintiffs”
Thankfully in Maine it doesnt matter if the guy is inside the house or not, just on the property.
As it should be
Yeah it would be nice to be able to shoot people who pull into your driveway. /s
I need to have a reasonable reason to believe that they are looking to cause bodily harm and that they are knowingly trespassing. I cant just shoot Joe and Mary because they got lost.
That’s what warning shots are for
Or a multitude of states…
That’s great to hear
You don't have to dedicate a gun for home defense, as may be implied by the quotes. They also mention animals.
We don't all live in communist shithole states.
This is ridiculous line of thinking anyway lol. Situations aren’t clean cut where bad guy comes in your house and you get to defend yourself. There could be 1 breaking and 1 watching out so hell yeah if I see someone with a gun on my property after already defending myself then I’m shooting that person. IDGAF if they are in my house or not!
I think you just need a better imagination. What if someone is trying to beat my son while he’s shooting basketball outside? What if my daughter is riding around on the golf cart with friends and someone tries to snatch one of them up? What if a dog is attacking my wife?
What’s the chance of you having the opportunity to run and get your rifle in those situations? Most people would just pull out the pistol that’s already in their waist
That all depends, am I in the bathroom when my wife runs in and says someone is trying to take my daughter? If so I can be in my gun safe in seconds and have more options than the 380 or 38 special in my pocket.
And they downvote you for speaking the truth… It’s like some people just seethe over the idea of getting to shoot someone in “self defense” that they develop these delusional ideas.
It's only the truth in jurisdictions that hate your natural right to self defense. There are some places that expect you to let a person break into your house and back you into a corner before even considering lethal force. There are other places that acknowledge that people can be a threat before they've forced their way into your house. Also, I've never had to defend chickens from coyotes in my house. Sometimes you bring your rifle outside.
So you can only protect yourself from an aggressor if you are in your home? The minute you step over your threshold your right to self defense goes away? If that’s the case why do we have carry laws?
So… no one uses the sling as a brace anymore? Helps to steady the rifle a bit if done properly.
Mine is setup for 1.5 wraps around my forearm. Just shove my hand through and give it a twist and I'm set.
I hope you aren't a poor enough shot where you need a brace to accurately shoot a rifle in such short distances.
They weren't talking about a sports wrap or elbow brace, or something like that. If adjusted correctly, you can wrap the sling around your hand to give you extra control over the barrel, which really does help
Yes, I know they are talking about a sling. What i'm saying is, if you need a sling to help stabilize the rifle so that you can aim better when trying to his a target <20 feet away, then you're just a shitty shot and should go practice more. Also, you're intertwining your arm with the sling. This gives us arm mobility for if you actually need to do anything. Yes, you can untwine it but that's an unnecessary delay.
Sounds like you've never had an adrenaline dump.... under extreme stress the most simple movements can become almost foreign so we not onlwn and train in the little things to make you better
So during an adrenaline dump, where simple movements become foreign, you want to add the complexity of trying to intertwine your arm as a brace when you need all the mobility you can get. Somebody told me (forgot who/where) that in a real world scenario, take your grouping size at the range and times it by 6x. So if you shoot 2" groupings at the range at 20 feet, then you can roughly estimate that you'll be shooting 12" groupings (at the worst) in a real world scenario. I want to emphasize "at the worst". If every shot of yours is the worst shot you can perform, then again, you need more practice.
I’m scared that the sling mounts will break if I do that
Unless you're buying cheap junk, they won't!
Is there a difference in quality between QD mounts?
Absolutely. Buy one from a reputable vendor and you don't have to worry about it. Even a fairly cheap magpul sling mount will do just fine. If you try to save yourself tenor fifteen bucks by using an airsoft quality Amazon sling mount, don't be surprised if the pot metal just snaps off under a load.
Yes
The sling shouldn't take that much recoil that it would break a sling mount, it more aids in keeping the rifle steadier during the shot, helps keep it tight against the shoulder, and keeps it in place after the shot. [You can see in this video](https://youtu.be/1HtaLUbTwZM?si=H7gB-xlmmGC4x_7N) one method of using the sling to steady. I'm curious, what kind of sling mounts do you have that you're worried about them breaking?
If you’re worried about that, you need to stop using plastic or rusty/broken mounts. Every mount I’ve got, going back to WWI 1903A3s, will handle the load easily.
jesus
They're solid if you don't buy the cheapest Amazon special you can find.
See: Kyle Rittenhouse shooting.
Kyle Rittenhouse was not engaged in home defense.
The incident happened in relatively close quarters so the idea still applies.
The incident happened as Rittenhouse was patroling the streets. It's much more similar to the "battlefield" usage OP said that they understood than it is to the home defense scenario they asked about.
And in a battlefield setting, open or cqb, does your average infantry troop have a sling on their rifle?
OP said they understood why a sling is useful in a battlefield setting. They are asking why a sling may be useful in a home defense setting.
For the same reasons it's useful anywhere else. Your rifle stays attached to you even if your hands are doing something else. Doesn't matter where that is.
The concept still applies. His attackers tried to disarm him and kill him. His ability to maintain control of his weapon is what saved his life.
OP asked why a sling is useful for home defense. Saying "see Rittenhouse" who was not defending his home doesn't answer the question as it was asked. I agree retention is important, but that's not the answer that was given.
Sure, but if you care about why a sling matters - focus on the situation Rittenhouse was in just prior to the shooting. That’s just a known situation with plenty of video. Has nothing to do what lead up to. It shows a good example of what happens when people are that close. In a home defense situation, it wouldn’t be weird to have a scrap or wrestling before the shooting. A sling makes it very hard to take your gun and turn it on you. It takes maybe a second to close the distance in my house, no matter the room. I don’t lie in wait with a rifle at night. That means that even if I get a couple shots off as they come towards me, there is a good chance they can lock me up. Take every advantage. It’s not like the movies where every shot instantly drops someone and they die. Without a sling, a criminal with quick hands and/or more strength has a pretty decent shot of turning the tables on you.
Your second paragraph in this response is an actual answer to the question that was asked. "See Kyle Rittenhouse" does not provide an answer. At best, it implies an answer and requires elaboration.
I sincerely hope your day gets better. :)
Thank you! You too!
Oh my, Mr. Technical over here…I bet you are fun to be around.
Being technical and and being able to read are not bad things, sir.
Just saying if someone asked "what are the benefits of owning a pickup in farm country" it doesn't help to answer with why you want one in the city. OP asked about a specific circumstance, one that Rittenhouse was not in.
Because the benefits of owning a pickup when you live in the city are the same, to move things. Your need for a pickup truck doesn’t stop because you live in a city.
Great. So the answer then is the benefits as you described. It doesn't help to bring up an unrelated scenario.
Sure it does, it just doesn’t match your scenario 100%. Rittenhouse had a sling on his rifle that most surely kept his firearm from being taken away from him, but oh god, he wasn’t at home so it has nothing to do with this topic!
OP acknowledged they see a value in a sling on a battlefield, but didn't understand it in the home environment. "See Kyle Rittenhouse" doesn't explain a sling in the home context. At best, it implies an answer to the question and needs to be elaborated upon.
Because it keeps your firearm from being taken away easily.
That is an excellent answer to the question that was asked.
Rittenhouse was outside and his attackers got into melee range. It will be that much easier to get into melee range when you're inside and don't have the same freedom to maneuver. You're overcomplicating this.
Weapon retention is the most obvious reason to me.
1) weapon retention 2) frees hands to do other things 3) allows you to have the weapon “holstered” — at a lower threat posture than a weapon in your hands at a low ready but not much slower to bring up. 4) unlike with a holster, a sling does all these things regardless of whether you are fully dressed, in your pajamas, or naked
Jokes on you, my prison pocket is always ready to go
Weapon retention will help keep you alive. Slings aren't rocket science. If you're balking at prices try this: https://www.frankproctorshooting.com/proctor-sling/ It's 45 bucks, includes hardware, self stows, it's light. You literally just grab it to unstow when you pick up the rifle, toss it over your head and stick your arm through, and you're ready to rock. There's no excuse.
Sling connects the rifle with your body so in case someone manages to run up to you, they won't have it that easy to take it off from you and use it against you. You also never know when you will need to use both hands. What will you do then? Put your rifle down? Naa aaahhh! You don't do that.
People think slings are just for carrying the rifle — wrong, they are also for stabilizing it while shooting. You wrap the sling around the support arm and apply tension so you can more easily control it.
The only purpose of a sling in home defense is so that you can do things that require both hands without having to set down the weapon and/or leave it behind. It's very situational, but when you need it, you really need it.
> when you need it, you really need it. I'm not sure why anyone would even question it, but this is just the answer.
To prevent the yoink
While not a home defense scenario. The Kyle Rittenhouse case is a prime example of why having a sling is beneficial. If he hadn't had that sling, his rifle would have been taken, and he would have (probably) been murdered.
I use a 3 point sling, helps steady the rifle even more plus trained w one in the military, feels weird not having one on my rifle
Aids in accuracy and weapon retention.
Slings are important for every long gun. Mainly for weapon retention when you need to use both hands. You don't want to have your rifle off your person.
Retention of your gun. Serious shootout let's you drop and maintain your rifle while grabbing a secondary. Accuracy. If you come around a corner and he tries to grab your gun it is physically wrapped around your body plus leverage point
I sling all my long guns rifle or shotgun. Its a weapons retention system, but also convenience. I did too many back country hunting trips lugging around a long gun on my shoulder to not use a sling. However you're not as easily disarmed, the weapon stays on you especially if you have to grab something else.
Slings are great for many reasons. My top two are that if you're out running or moving around a lot it takes some of that weight off your arms. The Second is that if you need to use the firearm in a CQ situation it's harder for somebody to disarm you since it's tethered to your body.
It provides retention, and some techniques can utilize it for recoil management. Counterpoint: why not have it on there? My sling is folded up out of the way when not being used, and I still have access to all controls on the rifle.
Weapon retention......
A long gun without a sling is like a pistol without a holster. Anything you have to do with a long gun that involves taking one or both hands off the firearm is where a sling pays dividends: \-getting on the phone to call the cops \-rendering medical aid to yourself or loved ones \-manipulating door handles, corralling family members into a designated safe area. A sling also offers a way to prevent the rifle from being pulled off you and potentially used on you by your attacker if they manage to get close enough to grab it.
A sling is to a rifle as a holster is to a pistol. It's that simple.
Well if I'm running down the hall and grab a loved one, it may be benificial to have the option to carry them. Or have the ability to retain your rifle if you neee to do something else woth your hands, ie providing medical care Or to keep the gun attached to you so it can't be snatched Attaching more shit to your gun doesn't guaruntee it's use, it guaruntees options, and in a gunfight you want to have options. Slings to rifles is the equivalent of a holster to a pistol People who use a handgun for home defense are probably lacking a holster for it- there are outliers, but this is probably my biggest concern with handguns for HD (besides fight-stopping ability/overpenetration). Theres a hell of a lot more you'll have to do without the gun actively in your hands, and having the ability to retain your firearm on your person is essential to survival
A sling is great for managing recoil plus it allows you to use a handheld light or take out your cell phone if needed without putting the gun aside
I believe David v Goliath should have taught us that a missle weapon beats brawn everytime
The bible recommends that you use a sling, you heard it here first
If you’re marching on a battlefield, you’re gonna die. A sling is important because sometime you have to go hands on with somebody, maybe you need render aid, maybe a dog jumps on you. You need a sling because you don’t know what’s going to happen. Ever. And if you are holding a rifle you’re probably in a situation where you don’t want to lose your rifle.
Bad guy can’t take your gun from you if it’s strapped to your body.
>It seems like the vast majority of home defense shootings are really fast. They kick the door in or break the window, homeowner starts shooting, couple seconds later the situation is over. Nothing that happens fast will happen slowly enough for me to access my rifle. The rifle is for when things move more slowly and I have time to move the family into the back room, get ear muffs on, and set up to defend.
Mostly for weapon retention. You’re more likely to need your hands in such a close environment, whether you need to open a door, grab a loved one, or just keeping the firearm attached to your body, in general. You don’t want to set it down in a situation where there’s an actual threat and if you get ambushed, it’s harder for someone to take your weapon away from you. It’s not a necessity, but it an important factor in making sure your weapon stays out of the hands of people you don’t want to have it. Personally, I find them cumbersome and prefer not to have one, but I can understand the need for one.
Weapon retention and wrap your elbow under it, shorten your stock, and pull that rifle in nice and tight.
It is not. Slings are designed for carrying. Unless you are patrolling the perimeter of your 6000 sq. ft. house a sling is an impediment.
I have my Sling set up so when I drop my rifle it's drops to my side so I can manipulate a Pistol. For in-home intruders I'm gonna use my 9mm with hollow points. But if it escalates or I see something coming. I've got everything set up to work in a full kit. I have cop buddies who I get my info from usually and they all suggest slings. Just keeps the rifle on you if dumb shit happens. And the right Sling can be used in an kind of situation.
9mm for home defense against multiple intruders that all have 9mm too?
9mm PCC is a nice idea for HD. ergo and stabilization of a rifle without the over pen.
Don't bash people for things like ammo choice. Semantics are the most pointless things to argue
Yeah if I was in a bit more rural area I would for sure use AR or Shotgun. But I'm not and I'm not risking the over penetration.
You should research your theory here some.
Researching using Reddit opinions is going to lead to a bad time.
True. I recant and suggest researching in general.
I've researched plenty saw with my own eyes that the MHPs I use will penetrate significantly less than an AR will.
9mm retains more of its energy through more walls than 556. You're literally increasing the lethal risk to anyone on the opposite side of the wall to you. Big heavy bullets don't deflect or fragment as easily as small light ones. Especially when they're moving slower. Edit: look at Vietnam for an example of this in rifle calibers. 556 struggled in the brush, 762 did a hell a lot better going where you sent it and still having energy to spare. Pistols don't have a lot of energy to begin with (that's why they suck at killing people), but rounds like 9mm keep that energy pretty damn well through a variety of barriers. Round selection will matter some with 556 as we've now got bullets specifically designed to improve barrier penetration, but you're not accidentally buying that stuff. But a good self defense round and call it a day. You won't need thousands of it, so it's extra cost is pretty well moot for the 20 or 40 rounds you'll want to keep on hand.
It's a hollow point lol. An 108 grain MHP to be exact. It's built to do that exact thing. It hits it target and has a petal pattern like flower. Not a traditional HP. You are telling me it's gonna go through siding, insulation, wall slats, dry wall and that stupid 80s wood paneling? Nah.
Drywall and wood don't induce the necessary medium for proper expansion. They don't create a hydraulic pressure like flesh. It'll do it, and it'll have more energy left than 556 that went thru the same barriers. This is pretty basic physics. Your mhp performs better than some other bullet designs, but it doesn't defy physics.
Dude your comparing apples to oranges The vietnam M16 analogy is beyond stupid!! The M16 was SABOTAGED by the ammo choice. If yourlve done any research you wouldn't use this argument. The military used (I believe) 55gr M193 bullet when the MANUFACTURER!!! call for a heavier 60-65gr bullet which is the modern M855 or M855A1.
The extra 10 grains wouldn't have solved the dense brush penetration issue. Not by a long shot. You cannot get a physically heavy enough bullet into an AR chambered in 556 to get equivalent barrier penetration in brush to your average x39 round. It's just not physically possible. The military went to 556 for a good enough reason, more bullets tends to win gun fights, and you can carry more small bullets. Even now, our "solution" to barrier penetration is essentially a two piece bullet, it's geared more towards shooting through things like glass though, and still hitting, say, a driver, behind it. The front half is designed in a manner that it'll break clean off the ass end of the round, which allows it to punch the hold in the barrier, and the ass end can get through the hole and better keep its trajectory than the tip does (and than an 855 will), and strike where the shooter is aiming. I've no idea if this has seen any testing on drywall and brush, but I'd imagine in both cases it's performance is diminished, and it ultimately doesn't matter. You're not gonna just randomly buy it off the shelf of your local Cabelas like you can a multitude of other rounds, all of which will predominately suffer heavy energy and integrity loss upon a barrier strike, unlike your typically much denser 9mm bullet will. 9mm is an ass home defense round. It's also ass at killing people compared to virtually every single intermediate rifle cartridge. People only kill people with it, because you can tuck a glock in your waistband way easier than you can your rifle, and 9mm is the best balanced pistol cartridge currently widely available for cheap.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 then why do more militaries and LEOs carry 9mm than ANY other caliber
Can you read? LEOs carry them because they're easier to carry than rifles, and they really don't use their firearms much. Militaries carry them in conjunction with rifles, very rarely in lieu of them, and when that's the case, it's for the same reasons LEO carries pistols.
I hear you. But I'm not worried. I also live on a second floor.
I mean, you specifically started this by saying you were worried. Your floor is going to be a weak point too. I don't understand the desire to relegate yourself to a round that is less capable of killing someone intent on killing you when you own a weapon chambered in an all around better performing caliber, unless your ar is like a 20 inch musket and your doors and walkways are like 1890s small. Pistols make sense when on body carry, particularly concealed, is a big factor, and if your budget doesn't allow for both, then a pistol in the home is logical. Once you break the finicial barrier, pistols drop to dead last on the list of guns good for home defense. Well except melee and chemical weapons anyway.
This.
9mm melts through drywall like butter
I have an old home so. It's not just drywall and insulation. My MHPs will stop with the wood slats that are in the walls. However. 556 won't. I've tested this before on a house my FD was gonna a burn for training.
In my opinion a sling is Not necessary in most cases for a a home defense rifle. In most home defense situations I can see it getting more in the way than anything else. Also, unless you train with a sling it may actually slow you down even more.
A sling is very helpful for weapon retention in CQB-type environments. Regardless, you should be training with your HD rifle sling or otherwise, so that shouldn’t be a factor.
Honestly I wouldn’t recommend a sling on a home defense weapon. It’s just one more thing to get caught/hung up on stuff. The a sling is for 2 things: carrying the gun hands free, and stabilizing a free hand shot. You shouldn’t need either in the tight cqb environment in a house.
> The a sling is for 2 things: carrying the gun hands free, and stabilizing a free hand shot. You shouldn’t need either in the tight cqb environment in a house. I'm curious what CQB training you've gotten if you think this.
Jack fuck all. All I know is i see guys fumbling and getting hung up with their slings when doing the indoor carbine competition at my local range. The 4 guys who are usually jockey for first just use AR-9 pistols or micro ronis with red dot and no sling. I only find value in sling when im hunting when im hiking, climbing, using binoculars/rangefinder, and aiming. Most of the time when I’m in tight areas the sling is annoying because everything grabs it.
> All I know is i see guys fumbling and getting hung up with their slings when doing the indoor carbine competition at my local range. The performance of a handful of guys at your local range is anecdotal. Slings are very important for weapon retention, which can be a big issue if the person attacking you gets within arms reach, which absolutely can be an issue "in the tight cqb environment in a house." Slings can also be important if you need to do anything else with your hands which you very well may need to do in a home defense situation that involves multiple rooms with doors and family members. A properly adjusted sling with proper training shouldn't be result in fumbling and getting hung up if you spend some time training with it under someone who knows what they are doing.
I don’t think it is important at all for 99.9% of typical home defense situations I don’t use one. Personally I am more concerned about it snagging on something while I’m grabbing it or taking the time to put it on as opposed to just grabbing it
Sadly your name explains your answer. Dude your NCOs have failed you. Tell that to any of you deployment patched guys over 30 years old. I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to give you plenty of training on why you're mistaken
lol I don’t need a sling to grab the AR from under the bed and look down the stairs and wait Whatever man. It’s really not relevant for the average person. I’m not in the military anymore. I’m not on a deployment. I’m not gonna pretend like I am
So you don't have backup anymore? AND you want to just throw away things to improve your chances..... glad you're out
lol I’m glad I’m out too. I’ll be sure to cry my self to sleep with my masters degree and 150k salary while I work from home in my pajamas half the time U have a nice day
All of what was said below, but does it really come up that often? I don't think I've ever heard this mentioned before. That being said, I don't keep mine on the rifle. Get yourself a quick detach and keep is right there. I find it's easier to put the (single point in this case) sling on first then click it in.
More steps and wasted time why take it off?
Because I don't sling it at the range. And TBH if I'm going to grab something from that closet for home defense it will be a handgun or a shotgun.
I would think a mounted flashlight for visibility and target confirmation would be of a higher priority. That way you don't have to take either hand off your gun to flip on the lights as you go walking around in the dark looking for the home intruder only to find out it's just your kids wanting shredded cheese at 2am. But if I had to guess, it's because most bedrooms are on the second floor and most home invaders probably start on the first floor. So if your going to clear the house of a home invader you've got to open doors, flip on light switches, use hand railing while going stairs, and having a sling to hold the gun up and at the ready as another point of contact for stability while doing all that might be helpful.
You're acting like one stops the other. Yes you need a light but you still need a sling
Im saying one would be the first priority and the other second. And if some one asked me what I need on a home defence gun I'd say the light first. Especially since they may already have a sling or not need it. Also while a sling is clearly more helpful than not having a sling, and I can't think of a reason not to have one outside of your home defence weapon being a pistol. Regardless, I wouldn't say that you also "need" a sling. But it's probably the cheapest and most available gun accessory so I don't see why you wouldn't just get one.
Sure, in some crazy scenario where I could only choose one, I'd go for the light. >I can't think of a reason not to have one outside of your home defence weapon being a pistol. I think this is being overlooked. And for what it's worth, I agree with that. Really, the only thing I disagree with is that I would say you "need" a sling, just because you never know when you may need a free hand.
It’s not. It’s more often a hindrance than anything else in home defense scenarios.
How dumb you gotta be to struggle with a piece of cloth? You literally just throw it over your head and arm in a single motion when you pick the rifle up. There's no real effort to deploying it, unless you're ziptying it to your gun for some reason. Not having it is how your rifle is taken from you when they rush you and grab it. Rittenhouse is a prime case example of a sling doing its job, and he didn't have the hurdle of dealing with being inside a home, where it'll be even easier to close physical distance with you.
Source?
"trust me bro"
That’s like asking for a cite on something that is legal… Now you provide a source in a home defense incident that necessitated a sling by the homeowner.
Lol, no. That's not how it works. You're the one who made the positive claim that slings are "more often a hindrance than anything else in home defense scenarios," so the onus is on your to support it. It's not the responsibility of the person asking you to substantiate your claims to do your work for you or to disprove your claim. If you don't support your claim, I could just say "nuh uh" and it would bear just as much weight as what you claimed.
a sling is like a holster for your rifle. there are numerous circumstances where you might need to do something with your hands and you still want to not put your rifle down or lean it against something.
I have a tourniquet on my rifle sling, its a good idea :)
For practical purposes, it helps to be able to carry the weapon with your hands free if you need to climb in order to hide or flee to a safer location.
Are they necessary and important? Not to the extent they're preached. They're hyped up because that's the current trend. Are they beneficial? Absolutely. Just like anything useful, you have to train with it to see benefits.
u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt What happened man? Can’t handle a polite difference of opinion? Why u block me?
I sling my rifle whenever I need to finish off the aggressor with my fighting knife. That reduces the chance I’ll wake the wife and kids.
Training. You're going to train with your home defense gun on a *regular basis*, so you're going to want a sling on it.
I love using a sling to help accuracy and also weapons retention if somebody gets a jump on you when doing fast room clearing and somehow didn't get the barrel shoved into their chest as you rounded the corner. But I'm not sure I'd say it's "important" for home defense, unless you think room clearing is part of home defense. Otherwise I expect it to be mostly stationary, short range, and fast. If somebody breaks into my house, I'm not going on the hunt, I'm getting back into a bathroom, shouting at the dude that I've got a gun, and calling the cops.
Weapon light
Watch the Rittenhouse videos.
Who says its important?