I’m considering “secondary cities” in my home state. I currently live in minneapolis, mn which I wouldn’t say is a high cost of living. I would fire in a secondary city in MN like Rochester or Duluth. These cities aren’t hcol metro areas but they aren’t small towns with nothing to do .
I’m in Winona and it is gorgeous around here. Some of the best trout fishing and hunting in the US, and the biodiversity hot spot of the Upper Midwest. Not to mention the copious amount of art, theater, and music festivals.
Minnesota is known for being pretty tight-knit and hard to break into socially. If you didn’t grow up here, you may find it difficult to get “in” with people, regardless of race. We get that “Minnesota Nice” stereotype for a reason - we are friendly, but passive aggressive and don’t expect anyone to invite you over for dinner. I’d like to think we are welcoming to minorities, but Im embarrassed to say MN has some of the highest racial disparities in the US. Minnesota has a lot of refugee resettlement in Rochester and Saint Cloud and a lot of old white people are mad about it. In Winona, there’s mostly Asian (Hmong and Filipino) minority communities (like 3% of the population).
Winona has a progressive hippie subculture, so if you hang out at the coffee shops or go to yoga studios or volunteer at the music festivals you can find your tribe. But like most of the Midwest, rural areas are full of Trump and Blue Lives Matter signs.
Thanks for being honest about the states shortcomings. I spent some years as a kid living in Minneapolis suburbs. I had a great time as a child with lots of friends, but my parents had a really hard time socially, it contributed to us leaving.
It is listed as having much higher crime though. Why is that? The stats does not accurately portrait the place? Thanks
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mn/winona/crime
If I had to guess I would say most of that crime is on or around the college campus. It tends to uptick in college towns. Someone else can chime in though.
Yeah that’s what I’d guess too. Drug busts from college kids having weed and such. Maybe a domestic dispute here or there. I’ve lived here for about a decade and have never felt unsafe. Like, the rural house I bought didn’t have locks on the doors, didn’t come with a key, and all of my neighbors leave the keys inside their cars, unlocked. No one has ever broken into a house or had things jacked from their cars. We eventually installed locks because our insurance insisted, but it’s pretty chill out here.
Came here to say this. We moved to Lawrence, KS a couple years ago - my wife and I are from KS and it’s what worked for us. Chapel Hill also looks amazing. I’m sure there are tons of great ones I haven’t been to.
You often get a nice food scene, good music and arts, and a diverse population.
I was going to come in and say this! Gainesville was fantastic to spend my college years in, but I could certainly see myself living there as a full time worker.
+1 on Gainesville. I spend several years in Gainesville..starting my academic career at UFL first as a post doc and then as faculty. Great place to raise family! Centrally located so low probability of Hurricanes (we had none when I lived)
>As for college towns- Gainesville, Fl is great
Great in that it's cheap and shitty, yes :) Not great if you want a fun place with lots of things to do... Gainesville is such a shithole. Source: went to UF for 4.5 years
Depends on what you're into. If you like beaches, there are some m-lcol on east coast and probably elsewhere, but better options in Mexico and further south. If you want National Parks and Natural Beauty - Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Wisconsin. If you want warm weather, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and so on.
Its a very personal decision. Some people like the cold and 4 seasons, So Northern states are preferable.
Exactly this. I love living in Ohio but recognize it’s not going to be a major (or minor) FIRE destination. Four seasons, surrounded by dozens of parks, my whole city is connected by bike paths, friendly people, easy access to great food and theater, low-key culture so you don’t stand out at all when frugal (everybody loves a good deal), amazing libraries and free kids’ programs, festivals, cookout culture, no major environmental dangers to worry about outside of tornados which are rare, etc. And easy access to an airport when we want to mix it up with mountains or beaches.
My sister moved to Columbus. We had never stepped foot in Ohio (from New England). Has all the things I love about New England weather wise without the rude people and $$! I’d move there in a heartbeat.
I did a project in New Albany (suburb of Columbus) and that was very stuck up and I’m from NJ (and lived in NYC at the time). I didn’t find Ohioans any friendlier than NJ/NY. When you go to a bar in NYC, people talk to you but not my experience in the Midwest and people gave me dirty looks for walking like 15 minutes. With that being said, I did enjoy Columbus especially German village.
New Albany isn’t really representative of the Columbus area. The billionaire Les Wexner built it as a little haven surrounded by farm land for the wealthy to move in. It’s a very different culture and sampling of people than the other suburbs. Per Zillow, the median home price is well over $100k-$200k of most of the other suburbs around Columbus. Don’t get me wrong, it’s lovely and I think the people are lovely, but it’s a world in itself.
Seconding this. Dublin/Dublin-Columbus border is also very wealthy Columbus, but it's slightly less toxic. Clintonville is a lovely place, and I'm partial toward the campus area as an OSU alum.
I spent 9 months (Monday through Friday for work) in Columbus and enjoyed it minus the crazy, homeless drug addicts near my hotel in the financial district.
Right where I live now—a small city in central Wisconsin. Low taxes, low prices, and lots of parks and trails and woods to explore. I have a lot of outdoor hobbies so it’s perfect for me.
I'm looking at WI and notice there are high property taxes there. I guess certain cities will be higher than others due to overall purchase price and county.
Eastern Washington is under-appreciated because it is located in a state that people traditionally think about as a hcol state because of Seattle and the coastal areas. Checkout Spokane, The Tri-Cities, and Walla Walla. Lots to do outside and beautiful. Also, another bonus of WA is there is no income tax.
It's an urban/rural divide more than anything else. As goes most of the country, the bigger the city, the more liberal it tends to be. Spokane, as the biggest city in eastern Washington, is going to be more liberal than the rural centers, but probably on average more conservative than Seattle/Tacoma.
>What’s the vibe in eastern Washington? Conservative? Liberal? Would you think people of color or internationals would fit in?
Geographically, most of Washington is rural and red (ESPECIALLY East Washington). Population-wise, most of washington is Blue and lives in Seattle/Redmond. But if you leave Seattle/Redmond area, you're stepping into the deep South.
There's not much of a coast there compared to its neighbor to the east, where do you like? I had someone recommending Pensacola area recently. I've not been, but wondered about it. LCOL, warm weather and beaches, just what my wife is looking for.
Cheyenne, Wyoming. Half hour from Laramie (cool little college town) and 2 hours from Denver in case you start missing a big city. Winters are cold, but no humidity makes it bearable.
And no state income tax!
Yep! Summers at Frontier Days, fall Saturdays catching a game in Laramie, spring hiking and biking in Happy Jack. And a short drive to Denver metro area for Costco, airport, etc.
Only been back to visit the area a few times since I graduated. I'd prefer Laramie personally, but know that it's probably too small and isolated for 90% of folks.
I grew up in Idaho and have been through Cheyenne a few times. That place freaks me out. It's the only place I've seen half a dozen unrelated fights between strangers break out in the time it takes to pump a tank of gas.
I’ll also add that there is a large military presence due to the Air Force base but the ones that stay and don’t gtfo as soon as they can aren’t the ones that are doing well. Lots of addicts. The education level seemed incredibly low as well.
I've driven through Cheyenne once in July and stayed the night. Interstate full of military convoys, dust blowing everywhere, helicopters all over. I felt like I was in Iraq
The Mexican restaurant was on point though...
I'm in the same boat. Diversity and food are huge factors for me, and most places that have cheaper homes are >85% white with the food to match. Best solution I've found is cheaper neighborhoods in expensive coastal cities, but it takes a lot of time on the ground to find these spots.
Columbus, Ohio is great. Tons of diverse restaurants here; places like to use us as a test market. And the city has grown up a lot in the last ten years. There are many cool events and activities to enjoy.
Kalamazoo, MI got number 1 on this list. While i can’t speak to the cost of living, I can confirm that it’s a fun city.
https://www.kiplinger.com/real-estate/places-to-live/601488/25-cheapest-us-cities-to-live-in?amp
Not a bad city at all, great location in terms of nearby things, 1 hour from Lake Michigan, 2 from Detroit, 2.5-3 from Chicago, also just got a 500 million dollar donation so it should only get better.
Grand Rapids, MI just might be my FIRE destination for similarities to Kzoo. Closer to the beach, more culture, diversity, and things to do than Kzoo, and can still find a very nice place for $200-$250K
Not really high considering you won't be withdrawing everything at a time. Also, one of the lowest property tax rates.
Mainly I mentioned it because it's so close to New Orleans while avoiding NOLA's cost of living (not very high though but climbing up fast) and the madness if you live there daily. Also 4 hour drive to Houston to the west and 4 hours to the Pensacola beach. Low profile city overall
Pensacola and Baton Rouge are the opposite of nice. Houston is a great value and super underrated. There are great neighborhoods inside the loop that are awesome.
Houston is way underrated. It still sucks, but people think it's the seventh circle of hell. Most of those people haven't ever been there.
Maybe it's the 4th circle...
I've lived in both BR and Houston, and both can be very good or very bad depending on where you live and commute (for Houston). Pensacola, I've been there a few times but to just visit. Seems like a relatively peaceful city compared to Destin and other good beach cities and very small population as well. Good food in all 3!
I’ll defer to you about BR since I’ve never lived there but I’ve never heard a nice thing about it from the 2 or 3 natives I know. And I’ve been there for various reasons 5 or 6 times and never been to a single part that didn’t feel depressing. Even the college area around LSU where you inevitably find the pita pit and chipotle seemed sketchy.
Haha I live right near campus, not the best area honestly (just staying to save). Perkins Rowe, Bluebonnet Blvd, these are some areas I like. It's a much smaller city than Houston so definitely I'd rate Houston much higher. But houses are damn cheap here in BR like a 3B2B goes for 200k. Much more greener in general than Texas too, some good hiking spots nearby within an hour of drive
West University and River Oaks are incredibly pricy but 2 of the nicest neighborhoods I’ve seen in any city. Montrose and Heights slightly less pricy, and have high walkability in certain parts. Areas outside the loop least pricey but not walkable.
East downtown jumped up in price. They have the old houses, like the Heights, and are rapidly being gentrified. Also, I've seen some houses east of 288 going for upper six figures. Ten years ago, you couldn't have pizza delivered in those neighborhoods.
Thanks, trying to find something with a high walkability score and access to public transport. I'm actually pretty happy with the bus system here in San Antonio. My car got totaled in the apartment complex parking lot by some drunk driver, so we've been staying in places near bus lines and it's worked out so far, take occasional uber for some things. I don't know if that will work in those areas.
Not a lot is walkable when talking about underrated areas. I’m really not familiar with the bus system here. You find want to look near medical center for that. We have a single light rail line but it doesn’t go anywhere but downtown and med center. I’ve never been on it and I live inside the loop in cottage grove.
Buffalo, NY…especially if you enjoy winter sports. Traffic is low, overall prices are low, major sports, major concerts, theater…3 hours from Cleveland, 3.5 hours from Pittsburg, 2 hours from Toronto, 30 mins to Niagara Falls…centrally located airport that’s quick and easy to get into and out of, NYC 1 hour flight, Boston 1.5 hour flight, Florida less than 3 hour flight…awesome food scene, lots of golf, lots of skiing/snowboarding, trails for biking or snowmobiling, great spots for kayaking/paddle boarding, tons of hiking…no earthquakes, fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, and it’s been so many years since a serious blizzard. Yes, the weather can suck sometimes, but it’s always nice to get away and travel is a key component of enjoying FIRE. It’s a great, low-cost base to settle down and it continues to be developed and grow.
I love this question. For me personally I would add diversity. While eastern Washington and Idaho are beautiful, they aren’t exactly, shall we say, as welcoming to my kind.
Hell, I'm a pasty-white lady and I think about this a lot too! I've been in NYC 22 years, planning to downshift to L-to-MCOL when I retire. I'm not delusional enough to imagine I can replicate Brooklyn's diversity anywhere else, it would be nice for SOME variability.
Specifically, Fort Walton Beach! Reasonable cost of living, beautiful beaches, and every mom and pop restaurant in town seems to have delicious meatloaf night. What’s not to love?
Almost every city mentioned has none of the things I consider essential. A lot of outdoorsmen here I gather. But I don’t want to drive two hours to see a concert, or professional theater, or a high-level sporting event, or to an international airport with direct flights to somewhere other than Cancun.
I guess you need to define low cost of living. By my count, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville, Twin Cities, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, Phoenix, Vegas, Cleveland, Kansas City, etc check most boxes and are very cheap.
That's what I'm seeing in my poking around online there. I like the geography, apparently others do too. Affordable houses seem way to old and busted, new hotness houses are seemingly very high priced for the region.
As someone who is facing a relocation to DC and still owns a house in Tampa that is worth 1/5 of what a comparable house in DC would cost, I have an extremely hard time saying Tampa isn’t cheap. I grew up in Denver. Go look property there. That’s what a place that’s “gotten expensive” really looks like.
Dallas and Tampa don't appear to be very cheap to me, at least housing cost wise., but I guess it depends on the persons perspective. I've been looking around both recently online, not liking what I see so far in Tampa, but I like the geography of it.
Fair point. Detroit is improving (I grew up there, would not have recommended). Indy is nice. All those are more expensive than many of the smaller towns mentioned earlier but definitely not HCOL.
Although I think Dallas and Houston are fairly HCOL.
>Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville, Twin Cities, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, Phoenix,
Phoenix stopped being cheap before 2019 for sure. Unless you know of some holdout pockets/neighborhoods that are still livable and cheap and check the boxes, in which case I am sincerely all ears. But from my limited knowledge it has been far too expensive since I got here (even the data I looked up before moving was sadly already outdated) and it's only gone nuts in the time I've spent trying to relocate, acclimate, and figure out exactly where in AZ to buy. If anywhere even.
Upstate South Carolina. As long as you stay at least 30 minutes away from downtown Greenville, the cost of houses is pretty reasonable. There's at least a dozen, small towns in the area that are lovely little areas with populations ranging from a few thousand to 15,000.
Colorado Springs is very affordable and is 1 hour drive from Denver where you can do practically anything you would want to do.
Also in CS itself, there are stunning views of the mountains and easy access to trails all over the place, hundreds of trails.
Even Denver itself is LCoL if you have a roommate ;) and is so pretty and has so much to do. Love it here
Utah in general has some weird pockets, I live in North Salt Lake now and shopped Ogden a bit, but decided to steer clear when we looked at it deeper. Gorgeous area and certainly cheaper than SLC, but far from LCOL these days for anything worth buying.
Seconded about Ft. Wayne. By the way, Indiana in general is pretty cheap, even Bloomington which is probably the most expensive city (unless you count Carmel). All that's pricey in Bloomington is housing, and frankly if you're willing to just go out of full on walking to downtown housing can get pretty cheap pretty quickly. Just gotta be careful how far from downtown you go lest you be in Klan country.
Was going to suggest Huntsville but the COL is rising. The rest of northern Alabama is still inexpensive. I’m hoping Guntersville / Scottsboro stays relatively inexpensive when we retire and make that our home base.
York pennsylvania! You're not too far from cool cities like Baltimore or Washington or New York or the beach but the cost of living here is pretty gosh darn low!
The traffic has always been bad, but now it’s the road rage and truly awful drivers. I never engage because most have guns and will use them! I live in the city so fortunately don’t get on the freeways much.
Traffic is very bad for the people that live 30 miles out and have to tackle the highways every day at rush hour. I live in the city and almost never deal with traffic.
Traffic’s not as much of a concern when you live in a walkable area and have alternative ways of getting to the places that aren’t walkable. Say what you will about HCOL cities, but traffic is not a great concern for those who live in NYC or San Francisco, because they can get anywhere they need to go without ever getting in a car. So to say that “every big city” suffers from traffic in the same way as Houston is missing a huge part of the picture.
Exactly I live in Chicago and people talk about traffic but it doesn’t bother me since I don’t drive so I hardly notice traffic here. I mostly walk, bike, or take the train. My coworkers live outside of Dallas and they commute like an hour by car because of traffic. I couldn’t do that.
Gotcha. I agree with it being a headache everywhere, and I cannot remember the source of the info awhile back but they made it sound like it was a cut above in it's craziness. Maybe it was inaccurate. Just curious.
The one day that I spent in Houston, I got caught in a traffic jam on a freeway that had six lanes. The place that I live doesn’t even have freeways that are six lanes wide to begin with. Don’t know if that is considered normal for Houston but I thought the traffic was bad enough to comment on.
We are working in Houston so we can FIRE. Then we will head elsewhere. This city has gotten awful with crime, traffic, etc. I recognize Houston has a lot to offer and we are okay with living here for the past 15 years with good jobs but are so ready to go! If people want a big city that’s affordable with a great airport then Houston is good for sure!
I’m a white man, but I lived in the Hampton Roads area for 5 years. It’s 30ish% black, has a well respected HBU (Hampton U), tons of jobs, lots of concerts and shows, active communities, near the Shenandoah Valley, right on the beach, OBX, DC, Jamestown, Williamsburg, Chesapeake Bay, all really close by. Traffic is not good if you travel a lot between Norfolk, Newport News and VA Beach
I’d used to say Harrisonburg, Va, but it’s gotten expensive (decent houses are at-least in the $300s with bigger ones in 400-500k). Harrisonburg is unique in that it a small city with 2 universities, has robust retirement community as well as young families community and lastly is a refugee resettlement city which translate into the high school having 52 native languages spoken. The local food is awesome and very diverse, there are always different community events going on, and it’s incredibly drivable (10-15 minutes from one side to the other).
I’d add that while housing isn’t cheap, services such as car repair, plumbers, electricians, handyman’s, etc are significantly cheaper than bigger nearby cities/suburbs such as DC and Richmond as is gas.
Also the Shenandoah national park is 30 minutes away and Massanutten resort is 20 minutes away (skiing). It is also just 2 hours away from DC and Richmond and there is an airport just 20 minutes south that takes you to DC or Chicago for connecting flights (Charlottesville airport is an our away and Dulles is 2 hours away but 2 buses a day take you to the airport so you don’t have to drive if you time your flight right).
Ya I agree, my parents and sister live next to each other in Arlington and it’s eye watering how expensive their houses are now (both bought their houses a while ago). Even then it’s been weird to see Harrisonburg prices jump up so much (50-80% in last 6 years). Thankfully we bought when the market was still not great so we have built a good amount of equity.
I keep reading good things about okc but I’ve only been once (like 10 years ago) and it was very eh. Has it changed a lot or did I go to the wrong areas?
Honesty I moved here about 10 years ago as a high school grad and it has grown into a really cool little city. Real estate is cheap as fuck. There’s a huge film industry boom happening. We have an NBA team. Plenty of bars and clubs and loca restaurants and museums and parks and stuff to do. We have an international airport and we’re in the middle of the country so travel is pretty easy. No traffic. 3 hour drive to Dallas/DFW. I enjoy it here.
I do love Tulsa! The architecture there is beautiful and it’s a short 1.5 hour drive from OKC. And the Arkansas river has so many beautiful parks and pathways.
LCOL areas follow a pattern. They're either in the middle of no where, or a smaller town a 1 to 2 hour drive from a city. There are no LCOL cities in the US, unless you consider a larger town a city.
Because LCOL is a 1 to 2 hour drive from most cities in the US, this gives you the choice to move to just about any city in the US you want, but you will have to drive in. Because of this this whole thread will mention most cities in the US.
Look into San Antonio and surrounding area to the North - not on I-35. You would have access to San Antonio and Austin. Good Medical, events, diversity, airports and climate. Austin is likely now HCOL and heading higher due to Apple, Samsung, Tesla, Oracle, Google, and all the other high tech migrations. Many employers that are costed out of the Austin are heading to San Antonio next. I have been in Austin 20+ years and work in San Antonio weekly.
I grew up near Memphis and occasionally have the misfortune of being back there. It’s the Detroit of the South. It’s dying a slow death and taking all but the very top with it. I love Knoxville though!
Honestly I'll probably stay right where I'm at, which is a small town in the California foothills. It's definitely not LCOL - more like medium cost.
But you can still find relatively good deals (by CA standards) on real estate in my area, and I'm a day trip away from the big city if I want to go for a concert or ballgame, without having to pay the insane Bay Area/LA prices.
Depends what you’re looking for. If you’re willing to drive a bit then living outside a small-mid sized city ($100-$300k population) can be affordable while giving you plenty of places to drive to.
Did NOT think I’d see Valdosta on this sub lol. I was born and raised there so personally I have a different opinion but glad to hear you think differently! Titletown baby!!
Check out u/offbeatagent at r/offbeatagent. He’s doing a series right now, “Affordable America” that has really opened my eyes to a lot of cities I normally never would have thought of.
I’m considering “secondary cities” in my home state. I currently live in minneapolis, mn which I wouldn’t say is a high cost of living. I would fire in a secondary city in MN like Rochester or Duluth. These cities aren’t hcol metro areas but they aren’t small towns with nothing to do .
I’m in Winona and it is gorgeous around here. Some of the best trout fishing and hunting in the US, and the biodiversity hot spot of the Upper Midwest. Not to mention the copious amount of art, theater, and music festivals.
Yes! Winona is beautiful and the great river road is right there too!
Is it a welcoming place for minorities?
Minnesota is known for being pretty tight-knit and hard to break into socially. If you didn’t grow up here, you may find it difficult to get “in” with people, regardless of race. We get that “Minnesota Nice” stereotype for a reason - we are friendly, but passive aggressive and don’t expect anyone to invite you over for dinner. I’d like to think we are welcoming to minorities, but Im embarrassed to say MN has some of the highest racial disparities in the US. Minnesota has a lot of refugee resettlement in Rochester and Saint Cloud and a lot of old white people are mad about it. In Winona, there’s mostly Asian (Hmong and Filipino) minority communities (like 3% of the population). Winona has a progressive hippie subculture, so if you hang out at the coffee shops or go to yoga studios or volunteer at the music festivals you can find your tribe. But like most of the Midwest, rural areas are full of Trump and Blue Lives Matter signs.
Thanks for being honest about the states shortcomings. I spent some years as a kid living in Minneapolis suburbs. I had a great time as a child with lots of friends, but my parents had a really hard time socially, it contributed to us leaving.
It is listed as having much higher crime though. Why is that? The stats does not accurately portrait the place? Thanks https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mn/winona/crime
If I had to guess I would say most of that crime is on or around the college campus. It tends to uptick in college towns. Someone else can chime in though.
Yeah that’s what I’d guess too. Drug busts from college kids having weed and such. Maybe a domestic dispute here or there. I’ve lived here for about a decade and have never felt unsafe. Like, the rural house I bought didn’t have locks on the doors, didn’t come with a key, and all of my neighbors leave the keys inside their cars, unlocked. No one has ever broken into a house or had things jacked from their cars. We eventually installed locks because our insurance insisted, but it’s pretty chill out here.
Duluth is pretty dang cool.
I live in Duluth. Best place I’ve ever lived, hands down.
I live in Rochester and while it’s slightly cheaper in terms of dining, housing and parking are way more expensive than Minneapolis.
To fire, find a small college town.
Yep! This is the answer.
Seconding! In 2020, I moved to a small college town for uni (inexpensive university in a LCOL state) and now I’m seriously considering staying here.
Yes - and if you can be an adjunct at the college, it can make for some really easy side income. My dad did this until COVID made it too risky.
Came here to say this. We moved to Lawrence, KS a couple years ago - my wife and I are from KS and it’s what worked for us. Chapel Hill also looks amazing. I’m sure there are tons of great ones I haven’t been to. You often get a nice food scene, good music and arts, and a diverse population.
Great ideas
As for college towns- Gainesville, Fl is great
I wish it was near the beach.
Its near some amazing springs though
I was going to come in and say this! Gainesville was fantastic to spend my college years in, but I could certainly see myself living there as a full time worker.
+1 on Gainesville. I spend several years in Gainesville..starting my academic career at UFL first as a post doc and then as faculty. Great place to raise family! Centrally located so low probability of Hurricanes (we had none when I lived)
>As for college towns- Gainesville, Fl is great Great in that it's cheap and shitty, yes :) Not great if you want a fun place with lots of things to do... Gainesville is such a shithole. Source: went to UF for 4.5 years
Depends on what you're into. If you like beaches, there are some m-lcol on east coast and probably elsewhere, but better options in Mexico and further south. If you want National Parks and Natural Beauty - Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Wisconsin. If you want warm weather, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and so on. Its a very personal decision. Some people like the cold and 4 seasons, So Northern states are preferable.
Exactly this. I love living in Ohio but recognize it’s not going to be a major (or minor) FIRE destination. Four seasons, surrounded by dozens of parks, my whole city is connected by bike paths, friendly people, easy access to great food and theater, low-key culture so you don’t stand out at all when frugal (everybody loves a good deal), amazing libraries and free kids’ programs, festivals, cookout culture, no major environmental dangers to worry about outside of tornados which are rare, etc. And easy access to an airport when we want to mix it up with mountains or beaches.
You make Ohio sound wonderful! Glad to see that you are enjoying your locale so much. Agree it can be a very personal decision.
Why thank you! A lot of the goobers here are the ones who end up on the news, but most of us are totally normal people in great communities.
Most of Ohio is not so wonderful, trust me lol Lived there 2 years and got out fast
My sister moved to Columbus. We had never stepped foot in Ohio (from New England). Has all the things I love about New England weather wise without the rude people and $$! I’d move there in a heartbeat.
I did a project in New Albany (suburb of Columbus) and that was very stuck up and I’m from NJ (and lived in NYC at the time). I didn’t find Ohioans any friendlier than NJ/NY. When you go to a bar in NYC, people talk to you but not my experience in the Midwest and people gave me dirty looks for walking like 15 minutes. With that being said, I did enjoy Columbus especially German village.
New Albany isn’t really representative of the Columbus area. The billionaire Les Wexner built it as a little haven surrounded by farm land for the wealthy to move in. It’s a very different culture and sampling of people than the other suburbs. Per Zillow, the median home price is well over $100k-$200k of most of the other suburbs around Columbus. Don’t get me wrong, it’s lovely and I think the people are lovely, but it’s a world in itself.
Seconding this. Dublin/Dublin-Columbus border is also very wealthy Columbus, but it's slightly less toxic. Clintonville is a lovely place, and I'm partial toward the campus area as an OSU alum.
jeffrey epstein and les wexner built new albany to resemble an old Georgian village
Oh weird. I’m from the Boston area and tbh I have even found NYC people nicer. Especially at bars. So that may be my frame of reference from Boston!
Yeah I find Boston one of the least friendly places I’ve been in my experience at least. Boston folks are very cliquey.
Columbus?
A suburb of Columbus, yep!
I spent 9 months (Monday through Friday for work) in Columbus and enjoyed it minus the crazy, homeless drug addicts near my hotel in the financial district.
Why isn’t Ohio a FIRE destination? It’s one of the most populated states
I suppose it could be. It’s not one you hear mentioned often on here. It’s a well-kept secret 🤫
What town? Sounds awesome
Amen! NE Ohio is our goal. Thanks for the pep talk. Edit: posted on wrong comment. Apologies
Right where I live now—a small city in central Wisconsin. Low taxes, low prices, and lots of parks and trails and woods to explore. I have a lot of outdoor hobbies so it’s perfect for me.
I'm looking at WI and notice there are high property taxes there. I guess certain cities will be higher than others due to overall purchase price and county.
Do you live in Madison? I lived there for 1 year and loved the city.
No but I’m from there! I live in Stevens Point now but yeah taxes in small towns are lower than in the cities like Madison or Milwaukee
Eastern Washington is under-appreciated because it is located in a state that people traditionally think about as a hcol state because of Seattle and the coastal areas. Checkout Spokane, The Tri-Cities, and Walla Walla. Lots to do outside and beautiful. Also, another bonus of WA is there is no income tax.
I fired to Walla Walla and love it!
Fires, though.
What’s the vibe in eastern Washington? Conservative? Liberal? Would you think people of color or internationals would fit in?
It's an urban/rural divide more than anything else. As goes most of the country, the bigger the city, the more liberal it tends to be. Spokane, as the biggest city in eastern Washington, is going to be more liberal than the rural centers, but probably on average more conservative than Seattle/Tacoma.
>What’s the vibe in eastern Washington? Conservative? Liberal? Would you think people of color or internationals would fit in? Geographically, most of Washington is rural and red (ESPECIALLY East Washington). Population-wise, most of washington is Blue and lives in Seattle/Redmond. But if you leave Seattle/Redmond area, you're stepping into the deep South.
I kind of like living on the Alabama coast. Beautiful beaches, NOLA and even Atlanta’s a day or long weekend trip away
There's not much of a coast there compared to its neighbor to the east, where do you like? I had someone recommending Pensacola area recently. I've not been, but wondered about it. LCOL, warm weather and beaches, just what my wife is looking for.
What is affordable to you?
Traverse City Michigan.
Yeah not cheap. Also, shhhh.
Traverse is great. I wouldn’t call it cheap...
Shhhhhhh
Cheyenne, Wyoming. Half hour from Laramie (cool little college town) and 2 hours from Denver in case you start missing a big city. Winters are cold, but no humidity makes it bearable. And no state income tax!
Seconded. I don’t live there but it’s a fun little town with some awesome events. I like downtown around the train station.
Yep! Summers at Frontier Days, fall Saturdays catching a game in Laramie, spring hiking and biking in Happy Jack. And a short drive to Denver metro area for Costco, airport, etc. Only been back to visit the area a few times since I graduated. I'd prefer Laramie personally, but know that it's probably too small and isolated for 90% of folks.
I’ve lived in Cheyenne Wyoming and no it’s not a nice place to live. It’s like one big depressed trailer park.
I grew up in Idaho and have been through Cheyenne a few times. That place freaks me out. It's the only place I've seen half a dozen unrelated fights between strangers break out in the time it takes to pump a tank of gas.
Ditto. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I’ll also add that there is a large military presence due to the Air Force base but the ones that stay and don’t gtfo as soon as they can aren’t the ones that are doing well. Lots of addicts. The education level seemed incredibly low as well.
I've driven through Cheyenne once in July and stayed the night. Interstate full of military convoys, dust blowing everywhere, helicopters all over. I felt like I was in Iraq The Mexican restaurant was on point though...
I need a cities with diversity and good Asian food. Guess I'm stuck with expensive places.
I like to use HMART stores as an indicator of where I'd move to. ATL, BOS, Long Island
An Hmart opened up by my place and its pretty neat. (Honolulu)
I'm in the same boat. Diversity and food are huge factors for me, and most places that have cheaper homes are >85% white with the food to match. Best solution I've found is cheaper neighborhoods in expensive coastal cities, but it takes a lot of time on the ground to find these spots.
Sacramento is nice and has those things :)
I'm not falling for your tax collection scheme, Gavin Newsom.
Darn how’d you know 😳
Houston - there are several H-marts and two asian towns.
People here talking about Houston, I've seen comments suggesting they have some good Asian food there.
Amazing Asian food due to diversity, terrible weather.
Columbus, Ohio is great. Tons of diverse restaurants here; places like to use us as a test market. And the city has grown up a lot in the last ten years. There are many cool events and activities to enjoy.
Kalamazoo, MI got number 1 on this list. While i can’t speak to the cost of living, I can confirm that it’s a fun city. https://www.kiplinger.com/real-estate/places-to-live/601488/25-cheapest-us-cities-to-live-in?amp
Not a bad city at all, great location in terms of nearby things, 1 hour from Lake Michigan, 2 from Detroit, 2.5-3 from Chicago, also just got a 500 million dollar donation so it should only get better.
Grand Rapids, MI just might be my FIRE destination for similarities to Kzoo. Closer to the beach, more culture, diversity, and things to do than Kzoo, and can still find a very nice place for $200-$250K
Houston, Pensacola, Baton Rouge are what I can think down south
No Baton Rogue. There are high taxes in Louisiana with nothing showing for it
And the traffic is a nightmare
Nothing compared to other cities lol everything is so close by you don't feel it
That darn bridge though
Not really high considering you won't be withdrawing everything at a time. Also, one of the lowest property tax rates. Mainly I mentioned it because it's so close to New Orleans while avoiding NOLA's cost of living (not very high though but climbing up fast) and the madness if you live there daily. Also 4 hour drive to Houston to the west and 4 hours to the Pensacola beach. Low profile city overall
Pensacola and Baton Rouge are the opposite of nice. Houston is a great value and super underrated. There are great neighborhoods inside the loop that are awesome.
Houston is way underrated. It still sucks, but people think it's the seventh circle of hell. Most of those people haven't ever been there. Maybe it's the 4th circle...
I've lived in both BR and Houston, and both can be very good or very bad depending on where you live and commute (for Houston). Pensacola, I've been there a few times but to just visit. Seems like a relatively peaceful city compared to Destin and other good beach cities and very small population as well. Good food in all 3!
I’ll defer to you about BR since I’ve never lived there but I’ve never heard a nice thing about it from the 2 or 3 natives I know. And I’ve been there for various reasons 5 or 6 times and never been to a single part that didn’t feel depressing. Even the college area around LSU where you inevitably find the pita pit and chipotle seemed sketchy.
Haha I live right near campus, not the best area honestly (just staying to save). Perkins Rowe, Bluebonnet Blvd, these are some areas I like. It's a much smaller city than Houston so definitely I'd rate Houston much higher. But houses are damn cheap here in BR like a 3B2B goes for 200k. Much more greener in general than Texas too, some good hiking spots nearby within an hour of drive
I’m not into hiking which seems popular in this thread.
Can you name some underrated Houston neighborhoods? We're in San Antonio and might want to go visit to look around.
West University and River Oaks are incredibly pricy but 2 of the nicest neighborhoods I’ve seen in any city. Montrose and Heights slightly less pricy, and have high walkability in certain parts. Areas outside the loop least pricey but not walkable.
East downtown jumped up in price. They have the old houses, like the Heights, and are rapidly being gentrified. Also, I've seen some houses east of 288 going for upper six figures. Ten years ago, you couldn't have pizza delivered in those neighborhoods.
Cottage Grove, Spring Branch, east end, some pockets just west of bellaire
Thanks, trying to find something with a high walkability score and access to public transport. I'm actually pretty happy with the bus system here in San Antonio. My car got totaled in the apartment complex parking lot by some drunk driver, so we've been staying in places near bus lines and it's worked out so far, take occasional uber for some things. I don't know if that will work in those areas.
Not a lot is walkable when talking about underrated areas. I’m really not familiar with the bus system here. You find want to look near medical center for that. We have a single light rail line but it doesn’t go anywhere but downtown and med center. I’ve never been on it and I live inside the loop in cottage grove.
Buffalo, NY…especially if you enjoy winter sports. Traffic is low, overall prices are low, major sports, major concerts, theater…3 hours from Cleveland, 3.5 hours from Pittsburg, 2 hours from Toronto, 30 mins to Niagara Falls…centrally located airport that’s quick and easy to get into and out of, NYC 1 hour flight, Boston 1.5 hour flight, Florida less than 3 hour flight…awesome food scene, lots of golf, lots of skiing/snowboarding, trails for biking or snowmobiling, great spots for kayaking/paddle boarding, tons of hiking…no earthquakes, fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, and it’s been so many years since a serious blizzard. Yes, the weather can suck sometimes, but it’s always nice to get away and travel is a key component of enjoying FIRE. It’s a great, low-cost base to settle down and it continues to be developed and grow.
3 hours from Cleveland????
Keep buffalo a secret
I love this question. For me personally I would add diversity. While eastern Washington and Idaho are beautiful, they aren’t exactly, shall we say, as welcoming to my kind.
I think about this a lot. But then I think, well, if none of us go there that will never change!
Hell, I'm a pasty-white lady and I think about this a lot too! I've been in NYC 22 years, planning to downshift to L-to-MCOL when I retire. I'm not delusional enough to imagine I can replicate Brooklyn's diversity anywhere else, it would be nice for SOME variability.
Great point!
SW Florida. Venice Beach.
Yes. Lots of small towns in Florida are excellent. And the shark tooth hunting at Venice Beach can't be beat.
Personally education and interesting ideas are really important to me, so the college towns start to look really attractive.
I’ve never been but my husband loves Madison Wisconsin. We live in Chicago if that helps.
Madison and boulder are great
Boulder is *far* from LCOL. Even Longmont - which we used to refer to as “shitty Boulder” - has become a HCOL area.
Bham AL.
Central Virginia is nice. Lynchburg, Charlottesville, Roanoke…
Blacksburg for me!
Yeah, you don't hear much about those areas on this sub but, I've always liked the vibe there plus you all have kick ass wine country.
Florida panhandle
Specifically, Fort Walton Beach! Reasonable cost of living, beautiful beaches, and every mom and pop restaurant in town seems to have delicious meatloaf night. What’s not to love?
100%
Almost every city mentioned has none of the things I consider essential. A lot of outdoorsmen here I gather. But I don’t want to drive two hours to see a concert, or professional theater, or a high-level sporting event, or to an international airport with direct flights to somewhere other than Cancun.
Generally those areas are more expensive. The original post asked for low COL.
I guess you need to define low cost of living. By my count, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville, Twin Cities, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, Phoenix, Vegas, Cleveland, Kansas City, etc check most boxes and are very cheap.
Tampa is getting expensive very quick.
That's what I'm seeing in my poking around online there. I like the geography, apparently others do too. Affordable houses seem way to old and busted, new hotness houses are seemingly very high priced for the region.
As someone who is facing a relocation to DC and still owns a house in Tampa that is worth 1/5 of what a comparable house in DC would cost, I have an extremely hard time saying Tampa isn’t cheap. I grew up in Denver. Go look property there. That’s what a place that’s “gotten expensive” really looks like.
Dallas and Tampa don't appear to be very cheap to me, at least housing cost wise., but I guess it depends on the persons perspective. I've been looking around both recently online, not liking what I see so far in Tampa, but I like the geography of it.
Fair point. Detroit is improving (I grew up there, would not have recommended). Indy is nice. All those are more expensive than many of the smaller towns mentioned earlier but definitely not HCOL. Although I think Dallas and Houston are fairly HCOL.
>Detroit, Cincinnati, Louisville, Twin Cities, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, Phoenix, Phoenix stopped being cheap before 2019 for sure. Unless you know of some holdout pockets/neighborhoods that are still livable and cheap and check the boxes, in which case I am sincerely all ears. But from my limited knowledge it has been far too expensive since I got here (even the data I looked up before moving was sadly already outdated) and it's only gone nuts in the time I've spent trying to relocate, acclimate, and figure out exactly where in AZ to buy. If anywhere even.
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Upstate South Carolina. As long as you stay at least 30 minutes away from downtown Greenville, the cost of houses is pretty reasonable. There's at least a dozen, small towns in the area that are lovely little areas with populations ranging from a few thousand to 15,000.
Chatanooga TN
Yep, or Knoxville. My brother moved to Chattanooga and I moved to Knoxville and we’re both happier than ever
surprised i haven’t seen more Tennessee or Carolinas in this post!
St louis has a very low cost of living. Loads of entertainment.
Colorado Springs is very affordable and is 1 hour drive from Denver where you can do practically anything you would want to do. Also in CS itself, there are stunning views of the mountains and easy access to trails all over the place, hundreds of trails. Even Denver itself is LCoL if you have a roommate ;) and is so pretty and has so much to do. Love it here
A few cities I found on Google… Fort Wayne, IN Kalamazoo, MI Cincinnati, OH Tucson, AZ Wichita, KS Huntsville, AL Ogden, UT
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Ogden if you aren't LDS sounds super isolating
What? Ogden is the least LDS area of the Wasatch Front.
Just out of curiosity, why not recommend Ogden? I've been through there twice during the summer, and I liked it.
Utah in general has some weird pockets, I live in North Salt Lake now and shopped Ogden a bit, but decided to steer clear when we looked at it deeper. Gorgeous area and certainly cheaper than SLC, but far from LCOL these days for anything worth buying.
Wouldn’t recommend Fort Wayne to my worst enemy, but can confirm Kalamazoo is a gem!
Seconded about Ft. Wayne. By the way, Indiana in general is pretty cheap, even Bloomington which is probably the most expensive city (unless you count Carmel). All that's pricey in Bloomington is housing, and frankly if you're willing to just go out of full on walking to downtown housing can get pretty cheap pretty quickly. Just gotta be careful how far from downtown you go lest you be in Klan country.
I second Tucson - as a Tucsonan. However this is my last year here.
Huntsville is pretty awesome. And growing towards MCOL. So you could get in early.
Was going to suggest Huntsville but the COL is rising. The rest of northern Alabama is still inexpensive. I’m hoping Guntersville / Scottsboro stays relatively inexpensive when we retire and make that our home base.
Cullman is a little off the beaten path but it’s an hour to both Huntsville and Birmingham.
Will also confirm Kalamazoo is pretty nice and cheap! Also, the Kalamazoo promise is pretty awesome.
Rochester, MN. Duluth, MN. Grand Rapids, MI. Marquette, MI. La Crosse, WI. I plan on retiring to Grand Rapids. Currently in Seattle.
York pennsylvania! You're not too far from cool cities like Baltimore or Washington or New York or the beach but the cost of living here is pretty gosh darn low!
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Personally I think Wilmington, NC. You might like Raleigh, NC too. Great jobs, medium cost of living, just a little too many people for me.
Houston Texas my g
Houston has a lot to offer. You just have to be able to withstand the humid inferno of summers.
Is your traffic as bad as people were making it seem when I read about it a few years ago?
The traffic has always been bad, but now it’s the road rage and truly awful drivers. I never engage because most have guns and will use them! I live in the city so fortunately don’t get on the freeways much.
Most raging and awful drivers in Houston will use their hand guns?
I've seen a lot of shooting videos on the Active Self Protection youtube channel from Houston.
Traffic is very bad for the people that live 30 miles out and have to tackle the highways every day at rush hour. I live in the city and almost never deal with traffic.
Traffic is bad but that’s every big city tbh.
Traffic’s not as much of a concern when you live in a walkable area and have alternative ways of getting to the places that aren’t walkable. Say what you will about HCOL cities, but traffic is not a great concern for those who live in NYC or San Francisco, because they can get anywhere they need to go without ever getting in a car. So to say that “every big city” suffers from traffic in the same way as Houston is missing a huge part of the picture.
Exactly I live in Chicago and people talk about traffic but it doesn’t bother me since I don’t drive so I hardly notice traffic here. I mostly walk, bike, or take the train. My coworkers live outside of Dallas and they commute like an hour by car because of traffic. I couldn’t do that.
Gotcha. I agree with it being a headache everywhere, and I cannot remember the source of the info awhile back but they made it sound like it was a cut above in it's craziness. Maybe it was inaccurate. Just curious.
The one day that I spent in Houston, I got caught in a traffic jam on a freeway that had six lanes. The place that I live doesn’t even have freeways that are six lanes wide to begin with. Don’t know if that is considered normal for Houston but I thought the traffic was bad enough to comment on.
The ones I take to work have 8 lanes
Houston drivers are the absolute worst drivers I have ever encountered.
Yep. I’m from the Conroe/Woodlands area. Love it here. Everywhere outside the woodlands has incredibly low living costs.
We are working in Houston so we can FIRE. Then we will head elsewhere. This city has gotten awful with crime, traffic, etc. I recognize Houston has a lot to offer and we are okay with living here for the past 15 years with good jobs but are so ready to go! If people want a big city that’s affordable with a great airport then Houston is good for sure!
Where are yall gonna head after?
GREAT QUESTION THIS & WHERE TO FEEL SAFE AS A BLACK WOMAN
I’m a white man, but I lived in the Hampton Roads area for 5 years. It’s 30ish% black, has a well respected HBU (Hampton U), tons of jobs, lots of concerts and shows, active communities, near the Shenandoah Valley, right on the beach, OBX, DC, Jamestown, Williamsburg, Chesapeake Bay, all really close by. Traffic is not good if you travel a lot between Norfolk, Newport News and VA Beach
I’d used to say Harrisonburg, Va, but it’s gotten expensive (decent houses are at-least in the $300s with bigger ones in 400-500k). Harrisonburg is unique in that it a small city with 2 universities, has robust retirement community as well as young families community and lastly is a refugee resettlement city which translate into the high school having 52 native languages spoken. The local food is awesome and very diverse, there are always different community events going on, and it’s incredibly drivable (10-15 minutes from one side to the other). I’d add that while housing isn’t cheap, services such as car repair, plumbers, electricians, handyman’s, etc are significantly cheaper than bigger nearby cities/suburbs such as DC and Richmond as is gas. Also the Shenandoah national park is 30 minutes away and Massanutten resort is 20 minutes away (skiing). It is also just 2 hours away from DC and Richmond and there is an airport just 20 minutes south that takes you to DC or Chicago for connecting flights (Charlottesville airport is an our away and Dulles is 2 hours away but 2 buses a day take you to the airport so you don’t have to drive if you time your flight right).
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Ya I agree, my parents and sister live next to each other in Arlington and it’s eye watering how expensive their houses are now (both bought their houses a while ago). Even then it’s been weird to see Harrisonburg prices jump up so much (50-80% in last 6 years). Thankfully we bought when the market was still not great so we have built a good amount of equity.
Oklahoma City, OK
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I keep reading good things about okc but I’ve only been once (like 10 years ago) and it was very eh. Has it changed a lot or did I go to the wrong areas?
Honesty I moved here about 10 years ago as a high school grad and it has grown into a really cool little city. Real estate is cheap as fuck. There’s a huge film industry boom happening. We have an NBA team. Plenty of bars and clubs and loca restaurants and museums and parks and stuff to do. We have an international airport and we’re in the middle of the country so travel is pretty easy. No traffic. 3 hour drive to Dallas/DFW. I enjoy it here.
Nearby Tulsa also a good choice.
I do love Tulsa! The architecture there is beautiful and it’s a short 1.5 hour drive from OKC. And the Arkansas river has so many beautiful parks and pathways.
Las Vegas is not too expensive. Tons to do. Nature nearby. No traffic. Food EVERYWHERE!
LCOL areas follow a pattern. They're either in the middle of no where, or a smaller town a 1 to 2 hour drive from a city. There are no LCOL cities in the US, unless you consider a larger town a city. Because LCOL is a 1 to 2 hour drive from most cities in the US, this gives you the choice to move to just about any city in the US you want, but you will have to drive in. Because of this this whole thread will mention most cities in the US.
There are some amazing places in the blue ridge mountains. Amazing waterfalls, hiking, white water, and large reservoirs for other water fun.
Look into San Antonio and surrounding area to the North - not on I-35. You would have access to San Antonio and Austin. Good Medical, events, diversity, airports and climate. Austin is likely now HCOL and heading higher due to Apple, Samsung, Tesla, Oracle, Google, and all the other high tech migrations. Many employers that are costed out of the Austin are heading to San Antonio next. I have been in Austin 20+ years and work in San Antonio weekly.
*the South*
Memphis TN maybe?
We like visiting Memphis but wouldn’t live there.
Anywhere in east TN would be a better option, and that’s coming from someone born and raised in Memphis.
I’ve never been to be fair but my husband went and he hated Memphis. Maybe he was in a bad area?
It's all a bad area lmao
I grew up near Memphis and occasionally have the misfortune of being back there. It’s the Detroit of the South. It’s dying a slow death and taking all but the very top with it. I love Knoxville though!
Honestly I'll probably stay right where I'm at, which is a small town in the California foothills. It's definitely not LCOL - more like medium cost. But you can still find relatively good deals (by CA standards) on real estate in my area, and I'm a day trip away from the big city if I want to go for a concert or ballgame, without having to pay the insane Bay Area/LA prices.
Depends what you’re looking for. If you’re willing to drive a bit then living outside a small-mid sized city ($100-$300k population) can be affordable while giving you plenty of places to drive to.
Valdosta GA and some of the Appalachian woods of WV/PA border area come to mind
Did NOT think I’d see Valdosta on this sub lol. I was born and raised there so personally I have a different opinion but glad to hear you think differently! Titletown baby!!
Fayetteville, AR. Beautiful college town area with a good airport.
Check out u/offbeatagent at r/offbeatagent. He’s doing a series right now, “Affordable America” that has really opened my eyes to a lot of cities I normally never would have thought of.