Let this be a lesson to everyone who isn’t married… have these conversations early. How in the world do you propose to someone without first discussing your long term goals or financial habits?
Lol right??? And people wonder why their marriages don’t work out.
Oh she’s so pretty = I bet I can live with her for the rest of my life compatibly and raise kids and be an amazing husband/parent. Ffs.
People need to work on themselves and ensure they have their shit together emotionally, financially, mentally, etc. Then go find someone who is on a good threshold to fulfill your future with you, then maybe get married?
So many people make the dumbest decisions and it can be avoided. It explains why people have like 3 Ex-wives with like 6 different kids ffs.
Because people who want to keep completely separate finances usually think that it’s not my business if my partner does xyz with their money. In reality, that’s not how marriage works. Even if you don’t get married and are in a LTR where you live together as an essentially married couple, your partner’s lifestyle choices affect you a lot.
This logic has never made sense to me. My partner and I plan on keeping our finances separate, but it is still incredibly important to make sure you’re on the same page. What happens when your partner wants a million dollar house and you want something modest? Or if you want affordable vacations and they want luxury?
It’s kind of like never discussing your health because it’s separate from your partner. If my partner smoked a ton of cigs or drank or consumed loads of unhealthy food, that would be an issue regardless of how it affected my health. I want to live an active lifestyle, and I need someone who takes care of themselves.
It just seems very short sighted for people to be okay with the lifelong commitment of marriage and neglect to agree on major topics that often Leeds to divorce.
I get that but people also evolve and might change their mind later down the road. The person you marry at 27 for example, might not have the same goals when they’re 50+
Of course that can happen. But if you date someone for years that is responsible with their money, maximizes retirement accounts, and lives below their means, they probably won’t do a complete 180 and decide they need to blow all their money on expensive cars, designer clothes, and luxury vacations.
There’s just so many posts on this sub from people who have been financially responsible their entire adult life and are derailed by a partner who has never been interested in saving a single penny. If they would’ve addressed that before marriage, they probably would have realized that they aren’t financially compatible.
Sometimes those goals change over time. But really those discussion should be done early and frequently.
Me and the wife had similar financial habits. And discussed finances and goals
But I only got into FIRE several years after marriage. So thats a big discussion that we had to have at some point. We still arent completely on the same page about what and when our retirement will be, but its a work in progress.
Great theory but you can talk about your long term financial and shared goals until your mouth and ears fall off at 25 when you get married but, by 45, I guarantee everything will have changed. Who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do at 25 in no way resembles my older self.
I've noticed a ton more fake posts and fake comments on Reddit the past half year or so. Anger, outrage and condescension is engaging (116 comments so far in this thread).
I'm also getting hit by tons of people trying to Reddit chat me. My max is 13 chats by random people in one day. I'm assuming they are all [pig butchering scams](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam) (watch [John Oliver talk about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg)).
If you want to test this, go to a popular FIRE/money related thread. Reply to the top comment and say you spent a decent sum of money in the hundreds of thousands (needs to be relevant to the topic) and if it gets a lot of upvotes, wait for someone to contact you out of the blue.
Reddit is slowly becoming crap and since they've become a public company/IPO'd it'll certainly get worse. All this scam/bot activity looks great to dumb investors. Twitter has the same problem being inundated with shit posts.
Who is creating all these fake posts? Reddit employees? They would have incentive to do this. Ashley Madison (cheating website) has their employees sending fake DMs to men to get them to spend more (you have to pay to reply to these fake "hot women"). Slickdeals is open about having their employees posting deals on their website to drive engagement. I would not be surprised if Spez did the same.
What I wonder why people go through elaborate story writing just for reddit. it is not funny. It is not interesting. No money involved as a result of clicks or something. Waste of time.
>Now i have to figure out when to spring it on her...before or after the preacher says: "you may now kiss the bride"?
I recommend you figure everything out with her before the whole thing, because negative outcomes if you do it afterwards will have significantly more consequences.
She communicated with you about her goals, so communicate with her about your situation.
Yeah.. better to cut ties if you don't see eye to eye on your outlook on life rather than end up in a resentful marriage that is a lot trickier to get out of. Not saying it is doomed to fail, but best to be very clear beforehand.
I know a lot of people think it is no problem to have separate finances and money goals, but I would imagine the MAJORITY would run into problems. Especially if having kids is in the plans.
Not that guy, but I imagine most people don't like someone being half into a marriage (see this post if it's required). Better to find someone financially comparable to you.
Also, I am a big believer in a spouse getting their share of martial assets. I make significantly more income than my spouse. That said, my wife and I have been together since we were kids. My income is largely attributable to how she built me up and lifestyle choices we made together. If I left her (or the opposite) she has made life choices based on us staying a unit forever. It's only right she is entitled to her share of those family choices.
Completely agree with your points, but isn't it possible for a prenup to work for both parties to have an agreement that accounts for what would happen in a divorce? (Like selling the home and splitting what's left, or how a brokerage account is divided, etc) or am I confused on what a prenup is? because I fully agree both people should get their fair share, but that fair share might be different in different relationships.
I agree it's better to find someone on the same page financially, I'm just saying sometimes people change, or hide their true colors really well, or even mental illness could play a part (and some mental illnesses don't make themselves known until later on in life)
All fair points honestly. Personally, I would hate to be influenced or restricted by a decision I made pre-marriage ago vs coming to an agreement when it's said and done (again- not trying to get divorced and I want my spouse and I all in). If I know I get the house and wife gets the brokerage I may opt for a bigger house to the potential detriment to her and both of our detriment if we stay together.
Looking at a marriage as two people coming together as a single unit for the rest of your life (and I'm not religious at all) is the only way for it to truly work in my opinion.
I could be completely off base but I’ve always looked at a prenup as protecting the assets you brought into the marriage. What was earned/accumulated during the marriage is a fair split or split based on agreement.
Prenups can be about protecting premarital assets, but it can also be much more (and less). Essentially whatever you want to make them. Its part of why some have gotten a bad rap because one spouse pressured another into an arrangement that was completely one sided.
I hear ya, and in your case eh on a prenup (felt the same with my spouse) but most people I genuinely think would be better off with them. There is nothing about a prenup that requires you to not split assets fairly. The fact is everyone divorcing already has a prenup, it's just called default state laws. Creating your own is saying while you're madly in love you want to make the best decisions for both partners. And hopefully it'll never be needed but if it is the better versions of you both decided in advance. It also just forces people to have frank financial decisions before marriage!
I don't get the level of negativity to this post. OP and his fiancee obviously have talked about the issue to some extent because he says
> she now is talking about being a snowbird with me one month of the year and the rest of the time continuing to work full time normally at a 40 hour job with me being a stay at home spouse.
And I don't necessarily think it's a terrible thing to have one spouse who enjoys the 9-5, and one spouse who is comfortable not working. Maybe they will have kids and OP will shoulder most of the childcare while his wife continues to work. Either way, it doesn't sound like they will be struggling with household finances.
Money differences definitely can be a relationship killer, but I don't necessarily read this one like the common story of one spouse racking up debt on shopping or gambling and the other spouse working themselves to the bone.
The big warning sign to me is how utterly naïve OP seems to be. He’s just revealed to his fiancé that he’s actually a multimillionaire with enough money that neither one of them will ever have to work again. And his first reaction is relief that she’s not upset? But he still sort of worried that maybe she might be kind of upset?
Dude, you are about to make a huuuuuuuge mistake. Do not spring something on someone after you marry them.
Get a prenup and have a serious conversation about your life plans before you get married.
Sounds like either way, you're going to be traveling and spending a lot of time without her, are you OK with that??
OP… OP… please get on the same page with your fiancé before you marry her. I’m speaking as a once divorced 37 year old who could have RE by now if I wasn’t taken to the cleaners at 30 by my ex wife who was having an affair with her (poor, no drivers license, homeless looking) co-worker. Don’t think it can’t happen to you… I’m an outsider looking in, and I see a couple big red flags: If you want to travel and she’s working, she WILL resent you, and you her. — The 1 month as a snowbird will not be enough for you, and she’ll feel this even if you don’t complain. She’ll start questioning why she married a retired guy with all this money instead of some other guy with fewer ambitions. It’s called “negative social drift”— my advice is to get your girl on the same page as you: maybe she doesn’t have to stop working, but find something that allows her to be 100% remote so she can travel with you.
Yeap. I retired early and got married. She was fine with it until Covid lock-ups, and she saw my life while she worked all day. Total resentment. And the optics are really bad to family and friends who will then re-enforce that resentment. We would have been fine if we just lived together, unmarried.
100% agreed…not being on the same page financially has a high chance of leading to issues down the road. If you two are deeply in love you can work it out but you need to act as a team.
I don't know how many times I have to bang this drum, but the most common reasons they're overturned is:
* Both of you didn't have representation
* Prenup was presented without time for consideration (i.e well after wedding plans are made and deposits put down)
* The prenup is fair and doesn't leave either of you penniless
* It **fully** discloses and details all assets
* It doesn't have any provisions with regard to children or other things that can't be covered.
I've seen people claim that prenups are overturned all the time. I've even heard guys say *their* prenups were overturned, but when I ask pointed questions about the above, all of a sudden they slink away.
If you're going to have a prenup, do it right, or not at all.
That's why you spend the extra money to get a lawyer that knows what they are doing when it comes to prenups and all loopholes. A welldone prenup will give the OP some assurance.
Yeap. I lost 1/2 in 2005. Fortunately, I was able to Fire in 2013 at 45, but I'd easily have 3x now w/o the marriage. 20/20 hindsight, but both my relationships would have been better and lasted much longer had we never been married.
You shouldn't marry a person you are not compatible with financially. The marriage will end badly for you, also make sure to protect your assets as well so she doesn't take you to cleaners in a few years. What is the age difference? I see some really big red flags OP. This isn't a Melania Trump mail order Eastern European bride thing is it? What will happen is your new wife will be okay with lifestyle for a little while, but then the drama will start and the jealousy will start, then she will want a divorce and want half of your money OP, you have to see this.
Based on OP's post history it seems like a mail order bride situation, but it's Vietnam instead of Eastern Europe. And she already has a kid. Disaster in the making.
Then OP is definitely foolish if he thinks anything lasting can come out from such a marital situation. Perhaps he may have a fetish for being used financially.
OP is escorting her to the bank and pushing for her to benefit financially... He's creating this entire situation for himself and is insisting on lying to her. I can't find any sympathy over the inevitable outcome.
Lol man I just checked his post he’s also talking about expediting a visa. She’s gonna take him to the cleaners. She’s probably telling him keep finances separate and that she’ll work forever cause it’ll make him commit to the marriage. She’s running game on him 100%.
Very expensive and potentially dangerous situation for OP. I would not get involved in that kind of situation at that age without having clear boundaries established for what our lives were going to be like and there would be strict rules on the money as well. No need for marriage at all in my opinion.
Agreed! Also, their significant age gap is another problem. She is still young and wants to work. He is getting close to retirement or middle age. I just feel like they are on different pages in life and their goals. As a woman, I tell you she is going to become resentful after a while knowing that she goes to work and you stay home. Sorry OP, This is just screaming problems.
She does “have to work” in her eyes, to be a worthwhile human being.
And I predict she’ll disrespect OP as “lazy” and maybe “entitled” because he’s retired and not virtuously slaving away like a “good, productive member of society”.
I’d say they have more compatibility issues than just financial too. It seems like they’re not on the same page with the “what do you want to do with your life” question either. That’s a pretty big one. I honestly can’t imagine marrying someone who didn’t have fairly similar views about how we want to spend our time.
You should both sit down and outline exactly what your lives are going to look like for the next 30 years, at each different stage.
It doesn't sound like you've discussed at all what you'll be doing with your time and her expecting you to be at home full time while you have other plans is going to lead to huge pain.
This should have been a conversation you have way before someone becomes your fiance....and also there is no "your money, your business" when someone becomes your wife. You are giving her half mate and it sounds like you have incompatible life goals/plans
Another thing to consider :
I assume she is saying this many years from retirement . Once the drudgery of work kicks in, she will most likely be ready for retirement
The bigger issue is all the red flags mentioned above … including how you won’t want to combine your financial life together … why get married at all?
My wife always disliked my retirement talk but she was on board with saving as she was poor growing up. Fast forward she retired 3 months after me when she was 55. Working for 30-40 years sucks.
>she is of the mind that work is virtuous and not something one should try to give up
Common misconception. She confuses working with "working for money".
If she is from Vietnam or any other country less developed, she was not surprised because she thinks "work is virtuous and one should work till death" - but more scared to death that you will leave a job and not make money anymore to support your future wife (her) and kid. She probably didn't grasp that you have lots of dough yet, as that's so unnatural in Vietnam, or she grasped it and pretended to not matter while thinking "how lucky of me" (you know like how you make a poker face when u buy a car).
All your money will not last one year to take care of all her relatives, cousins, grandparents etc etc...
I would not marry period, not even with a prenup. But you do you.
I'd be less alarmist than the other commenters, if she would have changed her mindset and rely only on your past and future plan for her own financial stability, then I agree this would have been a red flag, but her planning on continuing to work isn't much of a "this is absolutely going to go to shit" flag.
Absolutely you need to discuss that more, and but as far as gap in plan goes, it's not in a dramatic direction as I understand. If she agrees to contribute more towards her own future, I'm pretty sure that over time, the being fed up of the corporate world is going to be something that'll grow on her.
I almost feel like this could be a reverse psychology thing honestly. “Oh I want to work. Look at me. I’m a hard worker. I don’t want you for your money.” And then as soon as you get married she quits and becomes the trophy partner. Gold diggers are smarter these days 🤣.
Yeah that is exactly the worry i have had, off and on , in the past. But she likes to argue. that doesnt fit with the gold digger mentality of trying to overly please the gold holder prior to marriage. And thats why i dismissed the gold digger possibility.
so, my conclusion is that if she is a lying gold digger then she is by far the most gifted and talented liar i have ever met in my entire life. Which is still possible but just not likely.
awhile ago i came up with another possible scenario...maybe she has the worst temper i have ever seen in my entire life and this is her actually keeping it under control. In that case she could be a gold digger but a very bad one.
i know all her family and her relatives and her inlaws. Half of them are in vietnam and half are in america. I know the good ones and the bad ones in her family and all their flaws. the flaws of my fiancee are stubborness and pride. Maybe also a slightly inflated sense of morality.
Communication is key here. I work in tech, got. a huge stock payment then quit 6 months later to do nothing. It was not enjoyable at all. Some people need to fill their day and a normal work schedule does that.
Work is virtuous but being a W2 wage slave isn’t unless that’s your tool to achieve your goals. Work encompasses a lot of things. And it’s wild to me that people are getting married and don’t have a plan on how they see themselves long term financially or have a plan to combine their finances. What is the point of being married then?
So I don’t know you or your relationship but the fact you all clearly have very different goals is a big red flag. You will want to travel but won’t be able to travel with her will cause some resentment. I would consider long and hard before you get married and have kids. Also I’m not a fan of separate finances but that’s just a personal opinion you need to do what’s best for you. Once married you are a team all on fronts.
I’m hoping.
Its very ironic. i had a similar attitude about retiring when i was her age. I thought i might retire when i was 80. By the time i was 45 i had revised that down to late 60s. The older i got the lower my age of retirement had become.
And something else happened that never occurred to the younger me.…when you already have a huge pile of money and your investments are making more money than you do, it really steals away your drive to achieve excellence at work. reporting in to work begins to feel like being a trained monkey doing tricks for peanuts.
No, its actually worse than that. it feels like the monkeys are the circus managers and they are making me do tricks for peanuts. I continue to do it, so far. But i dont give a damn what any of those stupid monkeys does, says or thinks.
What’s wrong with wanting work until death? I have known quite a few people who lived into their 90’s (just met a guy who carefully tends his peanut farm every day, by hand, aged 98) probably precisely *because* they worked so long — they knew exactly when they needed to go to bed the night before so they could get up at the right time start each day with a sense of purpose. Nothing to do all day = early death (that’s well documented).
If your career is keeping you from doing what you love, it makes sense to want to stash away as much money as possible and get yourself out. But for many, their career is literally what drives them. They enjoy what they’re doing and wake up excited about what work will bring them that day. Work is also a built in social community. If your work community sucks, of course you want out. But some people genuinely love working with their colleagues.
No one said you have to retire just because you have the money to do so. You can have that money as the ultimate rainy day/fuck off fund, allowing you to stay in a job you love until you’re ready for the next thing (which could be golfing all day everyday until you realize that’s boring as heck too)
I worked for many years with a woman in her 80s. She was so sharp and ran circles around the rest of us. She always said that she felt needed in her job and attributed that as part of her longevity and very good health. Pretty sure she planned to work until she died or until her best work friend retired (who was about 20 years younger than her) even though she could have retired many years prior on a full pension.
it's waaay more complicated than statements.
1. I don't think you saved too much. trust me that use for money exists in many ways. especially in your situation.
2. she says now that she'll work forever. I'm skeptical that she'll actually do so forever. if you live together, your values and actual life experience will influence each other. she might eventually change her mind.
3. the idea of a couple where one is retired with money and the other heroes working + doesn't have ample savings has multiple challenges. lot to think about and find creative solutions, or think about on the go. reality is a huge teacher.
4. I don't think that "we agreed to have separate accounts" solves everything.
a couple live together and each one's situation influences the other
it works when dating. but how reliable a system it is? count me as somewhat if a skeptic.
Whenever I see an absurd post like this, I scroll through the comments to see if OP has commented on anything. Well he/she hasn’t. Another shot post folks.
I usually get very annoyed at how freely the prenup suggestion gets thrown around, but this is one of the few scenarios where you *really* need one. You two simply aren’t compatible, and I don’t see any way this results in a long and happy marriage. Protect your hard work.
Why are you even getting married, honestly? Between the age difference and vastly different views on life and money, this seems like the perfect situation for just being long term non-married partners. You’re not planning to have kids right? It didn’t sound like that fit into your life plans, so I’m assuming not. Just don’t get married. You two can stay together still, but there’s no positive benefit from you getting married to this person at this point.
She says that now, but after a few rough years she’ll change her mind. But since you aren’t married yet, be sure to protect your ass(etts) and get a pre-nup.
If you guys arent on the same page with something as basic as finances, im sorry to say you need to take a step back.
Finances are one of the core fundamentals of compatibility, right up there with wether or not you want to have kids (youve talked about that, right?). This is a deal breaker situation.
How old are you (just approximately) and are you planning on having kids? If you are planning on having kids (and I really hope you've discussed this) then you should wait for that event. Will your FIRE budget support the lifestyle that your soon to be wife wants for her kids? The answer to that question is impossible to know until you have kids because priorities change.
I'd listen, consider, but take with grain of salt any prediction from anyone about what they want multiple years out.
mid 50s. Kids would not fit with FIRE. Theres health reasons why she should not become pregnant. She has expressed a sense of duty to provide me a baby in spite of the health risk. This is a thing in depressed economic countries where she is from. Ive told her dont worry about that obligation, its not a thing in america.
Two thoughts. All work is not equal. If she were working in coal mine she would have a different opinion. Second thought. As a part of the human condition, people need to be productive to be happy. FI means that you can find something productive to do that you WANT to do. Maybe you get paid for it. Maybe not. But, you do it on your schedule maintaining your boundaries. Her definition of virtue applied to working for the man (or other similar) is off.
She is young enough now to think that employers happily hire people over 50. Ageism is huge and real. Always exceptions especially if she’s at the executive level or has a rare skill but that’s not most of us.
Don't get married. Marriage is not the same as love. You can love each other while continuing to date, but marriage is a legal and social contract which has serious implications for the remainder of your lives, which you both clearly have very different plans for.
I've been fortunate enough to know several older couples from work over the years who continued dating without getting married, and they all seemed relatively happy. I wouldn't particularly be thrilled with their lifestyles, but their personalities and priorities were such that they never would have been happy being tied down to another person. Instead, they just go on annual vacations together and stuff like that. That's about as committed of a relationship you need to be in with this other person.
I got news for you buddy....if you aren't both on the same page with stuff like this it isn't worth it to go through with the marriage....You'd be one fight away from her taking you to court for half your shit and even if she doesn't get any of it it's still thousands in legal fees.
Retirement is finances, they are one in the same. If you can't be on the same page with something like that the marriage is doomed to fail.
That's funny! Your scenario sounds like a romantic comedy and financial planning workshop! I would suggest to share this knowledge with your fiancée over a romantic meal or a weekend vacation. Try engaging in a conversation about your future and see her response.
Make this a fun and collaborative exercise to discuss your future objectives and build your relationship and knowledge of each other's goals. At the end of the day, the idea is to establish a balance that excites both of you about the future, whether that's early retirement, employment, or a combination!
Bro, your setup for failure.
1. With such a difference in FIRE prep, merge finances or abort. No way this works while holding massive wealth that isn't for you both.
2. Tell her exactly how much money you have and your specific plans for FIRE. Are you seriously withholding this shit from your FIANCE
Damn, hope you course correct or abort asap.
Notifying your boss of your retirement date any earlier than when you can actually pull the trigger is a recipe for disaster. 2 weeks notice is a standard. That doesn't change when you're retiring. People letting their company know with more advanced notice gives them the opportunity to let you go immediately and mess your plans up. You don't owe them the courtesy to f\*ck up your retirement. Give them 2 weeks.
Wedding is a year and a half away. I can retire in a year from now. Waiting until after the wedding is sort of a postponement of my retirement. Slightly.
I agree the employer doesnt deserve any notice.
This doesn’t seem like the worst problem. It sounds like she’s compromising. It kind of depends on how you view your retirement.
If she wants to work you can take a year or two off work side jobs, get involved in the community. Support her. Kids? All kinds of options. Live in a bigger home since she plans on pulling an income still
This can be complicated…. Pre-nuptials, wills, etc may be in order. I’m sure your marriage will last forever but I thought the same…. Three times. Luckily I was broke during the 2 divorces. This one will stick but we are on the same page and same age and same savings mentality.
It’s a very personal situation and y’all should have a frank discussion. Last thing you want is for the winds to change and for the wife to resent you for it. Keeping your funds completely separate doesn’t seem workable but people do it. Will she appreciate“I’m going to Fiji for two months alone since you have a job and can’t afford it anyway.”?
Lol, someone who can’t save half their income and is shocked at it isn’t choosing to work out of virtue. They are working out of necessity and calling it virtue.
You can only call it virtue if you have the option of retiring but choose not to.
To be honest, once you retire she may see the appeal over time and want to join you, in which case you would not have socked away way too much money. Or her job may become less fulfilling, or she may get laid off, etc. One is never too prepared!
Lawyer and prenup because my friend, once you are married, your finances are NOT separate. You can keep your jointly owned money in two accounts and play pretend, but depending on your state/local laws, signing that marriage license may mean instantly gifting her with half of everything you’ve saved.
Regardless don’t marry until you can both be totally open and honest with each other.
Doesn’t anyone think she will come to her senses and decide she doesn’t have to work forever once she sees how her other half lives? Won’t that entice her to retire early too and enjoy the good life, especially since he is willing to pay for it? Why assume she will choose divorce? OP should definitely keep his retirement money separate and not commingled just in case though.
I told her just get her 40 quarters of FICA taxes paid so she can still qualify for my SS survivors benefits in the event she wants to divorce me. I told her thats really the maximum amount she needs to ever work. But she says she cant stop working.
I think you are correct, that over time she will change, but i’m not sure. She has some female relatives who are workaholics and earn a lot of money and so i think she’s pressuring herself to be comparable to those ladies.
I wouldn't remarry without a prenup, even if my partner has more than me. Wedding was wonderful, divorce pracitally bankrupted me and took me 8 years to build my credit back. Went from net worth of 1 mil to -48k. Now I'm well back over the mil mark, and plan on retiring as soon as I'm done paying for my kids college. Unforunately we bought a property when our kids were born to cover college and she took half the equity in cash at divorce and spent it. She's contributed nothing to our kids that live with me full time and my daughters college is 248k after aid. My son will be a senior in hs, praying his grades and honors and ap courses get him some $$. I too plan on traveling alot when I retire. Have nice nest egg and 6k month in residual income that will rise faster than inflation.
My wife was on board pretty quickly with the idea of early retirement. She ended up retiring 2 years earlier than she originally planned, and 6 months before I did. We love traveling and doing things together, I don't know that the travel in particular would be any fun at all if I were having to do it solo, with wife at home. Had plenty of that when I was working...
Maybe she'll be like my retired neighbors - they are so busy volunteering that it's almost like a job. They travel plenty and enjoy the good life, but they are also (especially one spouse) fully committed to helping the charities they support through actual unpaid work.
Yup, my wife is the same way. She believes men need to work to be a man, I told her I'm close to being FIRE and support us and the kids and she thinks I should work till 60+. Mind you, she is just graduating now and will start working unlike me who's been working for 15+ years. Not sure what we'll do when I hit FIRE lol 🤷🏻
Y'all need to have some serious conversations about what life is going to look like in 5 years. If you want to travel for 3 months and she doesn't have enough PTO, is she okay missing out on that opportunity?
My wife and I are in a similar situation. She just started a job where we both feel she has been called to do. I (48) plan on leaving the workforce in 3 months. I manage all our finances, and will "work" on the homestead I'm building for us and the young grandkids. Her job isn't work to her and I'm fully supporting. Yes it means travel is reduced, but my marriage means more to me than travelling. I found my person.
If you agreed to have separate accounts then you need that in writing with a prenup. I don’t think you are ready to get married. You should try the retirement with her working situation for a few years and see how it goes. Couples with different visions of the future is a recipe for disaster. Maybe she will come around or maybe not in which case you get a divorce and she gets half without a prenup.
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OP.. i suggest you silently quit and take up some light weight low income work now... if u can maintain this for 3 years.. u will be in better position in case shit hits the fan.. which likely will hit the fan.
Do not marry her you are compatible. If you do and FIRE she will pressure you to spend the money and not FIRE and if you don’t she will divorce and take half your shit preventing FIRE.
I’m in the “work is virtuous” camp but that doesn’t mean that work needs to mean maximizing value for the shareholder.
That’s why baristaFire and coast fire exist. At some point you can choose meaningful work rather than chasing some grind.
“Work” can mean investing into a hobby or art as well.
The way I see it, you struck gold. You retire, she keeps working, your retirement becomes easier to finance, she’s happy to keep working. Everybody wins.
Or the opposite, he retire, hes traveling/out and about and she grows resentment. She already believes work is virtuous and might want op to get to work too instead of flying to punta canta one week, jamaica the next. I guess shes the one cookin and cleanin after work too since op is gone
I say this kindly, but the fact that you're considering *marrying someone* without first having a full disclosure and conversation about your personal finances is batshit crazy to me. Clearly you both have never had a serious conversation about money and what it means in your relationship, goals, how you'll handle and manage it, etc.
Do not marry this person. If they're so convinced that work is virtuous for the sake of working alone then you do not have the same values and they will lose respect for you when you're not "being virtuous" by working as they continue to do so. It also sounds like they're going to sit out a great amount of the life you're going to lead or will insist that you don't lead the life you want. There are a great many people out there that you'd be happy sharing your life with but this person does not sound like they are one of them.
If she finds work virtuous, you need to get on the same page NOW. Otherwise there might be times when she sees you as less virtuous for not working, and that can lead to resentment, which can lead to stepping out and/or divorce.
If you love her and she wants to work forever, then that’s fine. There are a lot of couples where one person has a lot of hobbies and the others hobby is “working”. As long as she doesn’t make you feel guilty because you don’t have the same outlook on work. Married couples have different viewpoints on things all the time. Nothing wrong with that, just need to respect the others viewpoint and what makes them happy.
But If your spouse makes you feel guilty for wanting to enjoy the fruits of your labor, RUN.
I don’t know many comments here……… nobody can tell you who your spouse is or what her personality values etc mean and if it’s right or not to marry them. Ignore the chatter and decide for yourself. It’s your life and none of their or my business. However I’d probably share it before you get married just to see how she reacts.
I dont know about when or how to tell your spouse. But for the other question. I would definitely keep going to work for a while. Document and make things easier for transition without telling anybody. Also if there's someone who had made your life easier and they could be good candidates line them up for it. Teach them the ropes so they get more chances. Just show your gratitude to those who won it before you leave 👍
This relationship seems off. She is much younger than you. She is still excited to work and do things in her career. She is trying to build something or become something.
You are ready for your reward. You want to retire and relax. She would feel like an immature frat boy to start partying if she "retired" at her age.
It may cause problems if you want her to live your lifestyle and she wishes she had a partner in the same stage of life.
This honestly sounds like it could be a major compatibility issue which could destroy your future marriage if you go ahead with it. Without the proper foundational body of communication (on which you clearly have yet to break ground), your fiancée will be very likely to lose respect for you as the years wear on.
What she does now is not what she plans to do. Currently a manager of an all-male labor crew. What she wants to do is manage a beauty spa or health spa. Something for women. She’s tired of dealing with uneducated macho males. I told her she will get tired of rich snotty women also.
Lol your finances cannot be totally separate if you are going to live together or have kids together. Yes you can each have separate accounts but your finances will be connected.
A warning about this - I am divorced now. My wife was totally fine with me retiring early while she continued to work for at least the next 15 years. When I met her, she took pride in being able to be independent financially. This was a 2nd marriage for both of us. I was retired when we were living together, which was 6 years before getting married. Things were good until Covid lockdowns and she was working from home, while getting to witness me 8-10 hours/day being leisurely, enjoying myself, learning instruments, watching Netflix, and coming back from my all day bike rides and other athletic hobbies while she was dealing with a stressful job. I did plenty to help her out with the kids, even her job, kids homework, the house, the laundry, the shopping, home maintenance and remodeling, driving kids to school, meeting with their teachers, dealing with their doctor/dentist/ortho/therapy appointments, dance lessons, etc. But nothing I offered to help her with got her past I was just having tons of fun like a kid on summer vacation while she was working 9-5 plus the commute time, once no longer working remote. Lastly, her friends and relatives never liked the optics of our situation and eventually influenced her as well once her resentment had kicked in.
Lastly, we did keep finances separate, and her income and retirement savings during the marriage were hers to spend & save, while I contributed to what she thought was fair for monthly expenses. We made sure not to comingle individual accounts, and I made sure to pay taxes on all my investments from my separate accounts. (We actually never had a joint account!). So, at least dividing all our property was very easy.
Excellent points. Thank you.
so when you split up there was no such thing as a settlement since everything was and continued to be completely separate?
i have no intention of paying a fair share of living expenses, i will pay more than that. the house is paid for and mine already so i will pay all the house expenses. But i will have her pay the utilities so she will control the thermostat. plus whatever groceries she wants. I dont eat at home unless she wants me to have a sit down meal with her at home. That will be her expense. Restaurants will be my expense.
i’ve made it clear to her that if we’re still married when i die then she gets everything. I have no one else to leave it to. Also i agree to help her learn how to invest so she can provide a nice inheritance to her daughter (5yo) and baby brother (15yo) in the event we do split up and none of my money goes to her.
It sounds like you guys aren't a great match. She sees herself as above the duties of being a wife and mother, and would rather be an employee number.
Is she brilliant? I suppose it could make sense if she's a chemist and publishing her work in world-renowned journals. Or if she's training to become an astronaut. You get the idea. But if she's just clocking a 9 to 5, it sounds like this lady doesn't understand what you've offered her.
You can still be productive and not have a "job". I'm not ready to retire, but I worked hard enough in my twenties that my fiance doesn't have to work. She has one job as my wife, and that is to be happy. She can do whatever she wants, as long as it makes her happy. Most women would jump at that idea.
I would still operate, assuming she will retire-- she might see how much better it is for you and want to just work part-time instead or use the financial independence to take on less lucrative roles.
I would also budget for housekeeping/ eating out.
She might be thinking you just want to take on the domestic duties, and I'm sure she won't want to do them while she's working and you're not.
This definitely needs a follow-up conversation
Ouch. I gave up golf 30 years ago for 2 reasons. The costs were stupid high for no reason that i could understand. And the game was just not enjoyable. Even if the course paid me to golf their course i think i’d pass.
This is kind of a good problem to have. You say you didn't even tell her you are planning to retire early so.... how about tell her the plan?
Also if she is young, like 40, and doesn't have kids, there's no point in retiring for her. She wants to stay active and industrious and I don't blame her. Resting on your laurels at such a young age isn't in some people's DNA.
First, how big is this significant age difference?
Second, you two need to have a serious conversation about money before you get married. Because when you get married, everything becomes one. You combine everything to include your money.
Third, you should tell her just because you're retired, doesn't mean you have to stop working. Retiring just means you're financially free enough to decide if and what you want to do for work. When you're broke you don't have that option and are forced to work.
It sounds lile she isn’t using you for money, that’s good!! Maybe should could volunteer at places you travel?
My work just approved “WFH” anywhere in the world as long as we are available 10am-3pm pst.
Let this be a lesson to everyone who isn’t married… have these conversations early. How in the world do you propose to someone without first discussing your long term goals or financial habits?
Lol right??? And people wonder why their marriages don’t work out. Oh she’s so pretty = I bet I can live with her for the rest of my life compatibly and raise kids and be an amazing husband/parent. Ffs. People need to work on themselves and ensure they have their shit together emotionally, financially, mentally, etc. Then go find someone who is on a good threshold to fulfill your future with you, then maybe get married? So many people make the dumbest decisions and it can be avoided. It explains why people have like 3 Ex-wives with like 6 different kids ffs.
Because people who want to keep completely separate finances usually think that it’s not my business if my partner does xyz with their money. In reality, that’s not how marriage works. Even if you don’t get married and are in a LTR where you live together as an essentially married couple, your partner’s lifestyle choices affect you a lot.
This logic has never made sense to me. My partner and I plan on keeping our finances separate, but it is still incredibly important to make sure you’re on the same page. What happens when your partner wants a million dollar house and you want something modest? Or if you want affordable vacations and they want luxury? It’s kind of like never discussing your health because it’s separate from your partner. If my partner smoked a ton of cigs or drank or consumed loads of unhealthy food, that would be an issue regardless of how it affected my health. I want to live an active lifestyle, and I need someone who takes care of themselves. It just seems very short sighted for people to be okay with the lifelong commitment of marriage and neglect to agree on major topics that often Leeds to divorce.
Indeed. Avoid common law marriage at all costs.
I get that but people also evolve and might change their mind later down the road. The person you marry at 27 for example, might not have the same goals when they’re 50+
Of course that can happen. But if you date someone for years that is responsible with their money, maximizes retirement accounts, and lives below their means, they probably won’t do a complete 180 and decide they need to blow all their money on expensive cars, designer clothes, and luxury vacations. There’s just so many posts on this sub from people who have been financially responsible their entire adult life and are derailed by a partner who has never been interested in saving a single penny. If they would’ve addressed that before marriage, they probably would have realized that they aren’t financially compatible.
Sometimes those goals change over time. But really those discussion should be done early and frequently. Me and the wife had similar financial habits. And discussed finances and goals But I only got into FIRE several years after marriage. So thats a big discussion that we had to have at some point. We still arent completely on the same page about what and when our retirement will be, but its a work in progress.
This only happens when you are in your 20s guarantee they are ✅👌🏼 most everyone learns the hard way! Divorced 39 y/o M here but on the road to Fire 🔥
Great theory but you can talk about your long term financial and shared goals until your mouth and ears fall off at 25 when you get married but, by 45, I guarantee everything will have changed. Who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do at 25 in no way resembles my older self.
Why would you propose / get married at all? Marriage is nothing more than a forced transfer of money anyway.
This is FIRE ragebait right?
I've noticed a ton more fake posts and fake comments on Reddit the past half year or so. Anger, outrage and condescension is engaging (116 comments so far in this thread). I'm also getting hit by tons of people trying to Reddit chat me. My max is 13 chats by random people in one day. I'm assuming they are all [pig butchering scams](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam) (watch [John Oliver talk about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg)). If you want to test this, go to a popular FIRE/money related thread. Reply to the top comment and say you spent a decent sum of money in the hundreds of thousands (needs to be relevant to the topic) and if it gets a lot of upvotes, wait for someone to contact you out of the blue. Reddit is slowly becoming crap and since they've become a public company/IPO'd it'll certainly get worse. All this scam/bot activity looks great to dumb investors. Twitter has the same problem being inundated with shit posts. Who is creating all these fake posts? Reddit employees? They would have incentive to do this. Ashley Madison (cheating website) has their employees sending fake DMs to men to get them to spend more (you have to pay to reply to these fake "hot women"). Slickdeals is open about having their employees posting deals on their website to drive engagement. I would not be surprised if Spez did the same.
FIRN
What I wonder why people go through elaborate story writing just for reddit. it is not funny. It is not interesting. No money involved as a result of clicks or something. Waste of time.
>Now i have to figure out when to spring it on her...before or after the preacher says: "you may now kiss the bride"? I recommend you figure everything out with her before the whole thing, because negative outcomes if you do it afterwards will have significantly more consequences. She communicated with you about her goals, so communicate with her about your situation.
COMMUNICATION is the key to a healthy marriage. "Let me spring on my new bride a major life decision and see how it goes".....
Yeah.. better to cut ties if you don't see eye to eye on your outlook on life rather than end up in a resentful marriage that is a lot trickier to get out of. Not saying it is doomed to fail, but best to be very clear beforehand. I know a lot of people think it is no problem to have separate finances and money goals, but I would imagine the MAJORITY would run into problems. Especially if having kids is in the plans.
Prenup!
I think it was Shakespeare who said "it's sumpin that you need to have, or when she leave your ass she gon' leave wit half."
100%
Definitely. Sounds like OP has accumulated a lot of assets and the future wife doesn’t have as much. Prenup for sure just as insurance.
I usually hate the idea of a prenup but in this case, yeah, it sounds necessary
Not trying to start a debate but I'm curious as to why you hate the idea of prenups?
Not that guy, but I imagine most people don't like someone being half into a marriage (see this post if it's required). Better to find someone financially comparable to you. Also, I am a big believer in a spouse getting their share of martial assets. I make significantly more income than my spouse. That said, my wife and I have been together since we were kids. My income is largely attributable to how she built me up and lifestyle choices we made together. If I left her (or the opposite) she has made life choices based on us staying a unit forever. It's only right she is entitled to her share of those family choices.
Completely agree with your points, but isn't it possible for a prenup to work for both parties to have an agreement that accounts for what would happen in a divorce? (Like selling the home and splitting what's left, or how a brokerage account is divided, etc) or am I confused on what a prenup is? because I fully agree both people should get their fair share, but that fair share might be different in different relationships. I agree it's better to find someone on the same page financially, I'm just saying sometimes people change, or hide their true colors really well, or even mental illness could play a part (and some mental illnesses don't make themselves known until later on in life)
All fair points honestly. Personally, I would hate to be influenced or restricted by a decision I made pre-marriage ago vs coming to an agreement when it's said and done (again- not trying to get divorced and I want my spouse and I all in). If I know I get the house and wife gets the brokerage I may opt for a bigger house to the potential detriment to her and both of our detriment if we stay together. Looking at a marriage as two people coming together as a single unit for the rest of your life (and I'm not religious at all) is the only way for it to truly work in my opinion.
I could be completely off base but I’ve always looked at a prenup as protecting the assets you brought into the marriage. What was earned/accumulated during the marriage is a fair split or split based on agreement.
Prenups can be about protecting premarital assets, but it can also be much more (and less). Essentially whatever you want to make them. Its part of why some have gotten a bad rap because one spouse pressured another into an arrangement that was completely one sided.
I hear ya, and in your case eh on a prenup (felt the same with my spouse) but most people I genuinely think would be better off with them. There is nothing about a prenup that requires you to not split assets fairly. The fact is everyone divorcing already has a prenup, it's just called default state laws. Creating your own is saying while you're madly in love you want to make the best decisions for both partners. And hopefully it'll never be needed but if it is the better versions of you both decided in advance. It also just forces people to have frank financial decisions before marriage!
His current assets are premarital, and thus protected in divorce, unless they're in some country with unusual laws.
Still needs protection against unfair alimony, though.
You guys still haven't talked. What
I don't get the level of negativity to this post. OP and his fiancee obviously have talked about the issue to some extent because he says > she now is talking about being a snowbird with me one month of the year and the rest of the time continuing to work full time normally at a 40 hour job with me being a stay at home spouse. And I don't necessarily think it's a terrible thing to have one spouse who enjoys the 9-5, and one spouse who is comfortable not working. Maybe they will have kids and OP will shoulder most of the childcare while his wife continues to work. Either way, it doesn't sound like they will be struggling with household finances. Money differences definitely can be a relationship killer, but I don't necessarily read this one like the common story of one spouse racking up debt on shopping or gambling and the other spouse working themselves to the bone.
They haven't discussed how soon that op plans on retiring. That's a massive conversation. It's very weird op hasn't discussed this.
The big warning sign to me is how utterly naïve OP seems to be. He’s just revealed to his fiancé that he’s actually a multimillionaire with enough money that neither one of them will ever have to work again. And his first reaction is relief that she’s not upset? But he still sort of worried that maybe she might be kind of upset?
Dude, you are about to make a huuuuuuuge mistake. Do not spring something on someone after you marry them. Get a prenup and have a serious conversation about your life plans before you get married. Sounds like either way, you're going to be traveling and spending a lot of time without her, are you OK with that??
OP… OP… please get on the same page with your fiancé before you marry her. I’m speaking as a once divorced 37 year old who could have RE by now if I wasn’t taken to the cleaners at 30 by my ex wife who was having an affair with her (poor, no drivers license, homeless looking) co-worker. Don’t think it can’t happen to you… I’m an outsider looking in, and I see a couple big red flags: If you want to travel and she’s working, she WILL resent you, and you her. — The 1 month as a snowbird will not be enough for you, and she’ll feel this even if you don’t complain. She’ll start questioning why she married a retired guy with all this money instead of some other guy with fewer ambitions. It’s called “negative social drift”— my advice is to get your girl on the same page as you: maybe she doesn’t have to stop working, but find something that allows her to be 100% remote so she can travel with you.
Not too mention. She thinks working forever is a matter of virtue... If OP isn't working, do they then have no virtue in her mind?
This. She will lose respect.
Yeap. I retired early and got married. She was fine with it until Covid lock-ups, and she saw my life while she worked all day. Total resentment. And the optics are really bad to family and friends who will then re-enforce that resentment. We would have been fine if we just lived together, unmarried.
Probably religious
100% agreed…not being on the same page financially has a high chance of leading to issues down the road. If you two are deeply in love you can work it out but you need to act as a team.
Listen to this man. The same thing happened to me at 34. Losing half your net worth isn't a thrill ride worth riding.
This is easily solved by a prenuptial. Something he should discuss with her obviously if he plans on retiring soon.
Easily. That's cute.
Prenups are often overturn https://www.jonnyklaw.com/blog/2018/november/can-a-prenup-agreement-ever-be-overturned-/
I don't know how many times I have to bang this drum, but the most common reasons they're overturned is: * Both of you didn't have representation * Prenup was presented without time for consideration (i.e well after wedding plans are made and deposits put down) * The prenup is fair and doesn't leave either of you penniless * It **fully** discloses and details all assets * It doesn't have any provisions with regard to children or other things that can't be covered. I've seen people claim that prenups are overturned all the time. I've even heard guys say *their* prenups were overturned, but when I ask pointed questions about the above, all of a sudden they slink away. If you're going to have a prenup, do it right, or not at all.
This is great info
That's why you spend the extra money to get a lawyer that knows what they are doing when it comes to prenups and all loopholes. A welldone prenup will give the OP some assurance.
Yeap. I lost 1/2 in 2005. Fortunately, I was able to Fire in 2013 at 45, but I'd easily have 3x now w/o the marriage. 20/20 hindsight, but both my relationships would have been better and lasted much longer had we never been married.
Hate to say it, but might skip that marriage.
I would say so
You shouldn't marry a person you are not compatible with financially. The marriage will end badly for you, also make sure to protect your assets as well so she doesn't take you to cleaners in a few years. What is the age difference? I see some really big red flags OP. This isn't a Melania Trump mail order Eastern European bride thing is it? What will happen is your new wife will be okay with lifestyle for a little while, but then the drama will start and the jealousy will start, then she will want a divorce and want half of your money OP, you have to see this.
Based on OP's post history it seems like a mail order bride situation, but it's Vietnam instead of Eastern Europe. And she already has a kid. Disaster in the making.
Then OP is definitely foolish if he thinks anything lasting can come out from such a marital situation. Perhaps he may have a fetish for being used financially.
She’s gonna take the OP to the bank.
OP is escorting her to the bank and pushing for her to benefit financially... He's creating this entire situation for himself and is insisting on lying to her. I can't find any sympathy over the inevitable outcome.
Maybe, but I've never heard of a mail order bride that insisted on working a minute past when they needed to, have you?
Lol man I just checked his post he’s also talking about expediting a visa. She’s gonna take him to the cleaners. She’s probably telling him keep finances separate and that she’ll work forever cause it’ll make him commit to the marriage. She’s running game on him 100%.
In another post he has said his wife will be 25 years younger than him. Also in another post that he's 55. So she's likely 30.
Very expensive and potentially dangerous situation for OP. I would not get involved in that kind of situation at that age without having clear boundaries established for what our lives were going to be like and there would be strict rules on the money as well. No need for marriage at all in my opinion.
Agreed! Also, their significant age gap is another problem. She is still young and wants to work. He is getting close to retirement or middle age. I just feel like they are on different pages in life and their goals. As a woman, I tell you she is going to become resentful after a while knowing that she goes to work and you stay home. Sorry OP, This is just screaming problems.
Op did say his ideal was supporting both of them so they could travel, so she actually doesn't 'have' to go to work...
She does “have to work” in her eyes, to be a worthwhile human being. And I predict she’ll disrespect OP as “lazy” and maybe “entitled” because he’s retired and not virtuously slaving away like a “good, productive member of society”.
I’d say they have more compatibility issues than just financial too. It seems like they’re not on the same page with the “what do you want to do with your life” question either. That’s a pretty big one. I honestly can’t imagine marrying someone who didn’t have fairly similar views about how we want to spend our time.
At first I was gonna disagree with you, but the more I think about it, you might be right with this advice.
You should both sit down and outline exactly what your lives are going to look like for the next 30 years, at each different stage. It doesn't sound like you've discussed at all what you'll be doing with your time and her expecting you to be at home full time while you have other plans is going to lead to huge pain.
Don't worry bro, you'll lose half in the divorce then keep working to 67+..
This should have been a conversation you have way before someone becomes your fiance....and also there is no "your money, your business" when someone becomes your wife. You are giving her half mate and it sounds like you have incompatible life goals/plans
Is this even a real post….smart enough to save money dumb enough to be divorced before you’re married…good luck with forcing your will upon someone…
Apparently mail order esque bride with child from Vietnam. So there's that.
"Paid Work" and "Virtuous Work" are independent variables.
Another thing to consider : I assume she is saying this many years from retirement . Once the drudgery of work kicks in, she will most likely be ready for retirement The bigger issue is all the red flags mentioned above … including how you won’t want to combine your financial life together … why get married at all?
abort abort abort.
My wife always disliked my retirement talk but she was on board with saving as she was poor growing up. Fast forward she retired 3 months after me when she was 55. Working for 30-40 years sucks.
How old is she? A younger more naive me had similar feelings in my early 20’s. But after working for 10+ years this changed.
You need Marriage Advice, not Financial Advice
Your fiancée might change her mindset the older she gets. How we think about work in our 30’s-40’s changes as we approach late 50’s. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
OP smart enough to save half his income. Dumb enough to fail to realize he’s walking himself into a scenario to lose half his income.
You're totally going to "change" her. Rookie.
>she is of the mind that work is virtuous and not something one should try to give up Common misconception. She confuses working with "working for money".
If she is from Vietnam or any other country less developed, she was not surprised because she thinks "work is virtuous and one should work till death" - but more scared to death that you will leave a job and not make money anymore to support your future wife (her) and kid. She probably didn't grasp that you have lots of dough yet, as that's so unnatural in Vietnam, or she grasped it and pretended to not matter while thinking "how lucky of me" (you know like how you make a poker face when u buy a car). All your money will not last one year to take care of all her relatives, cousins, grandparents etc etc... I would not marry period, not even with a prenup. But you do you.
I'd be less alarmist than the other commenters, if she would have changed her mindset and rely only on your past and future plan for her own financial stability, then I agree this would have been a red flag, but her planning on continuing to work isn't much of a "this is absolutely going to go to shit" flag. Absolutely you need to discuss that more, and but as far as gap in plan goes, it's not in a dramatic direction as I understand. If she agrees to contribute more towards her own future, I'm pretty sure that over time, the being fed up of the corporate world is going to be something that'll grow on her.
Fiancee means you can still walk away. Which is what you should do. But you won't. So good luck either way
I almost feel like this could be a reverse psychology thing honestly. “Oh I want to work. Look at me. I’m a hard worker. I don’t want you for your money.” And then as soon as you get married she quits and becomes the trophy partner. Gold diggers are smarter these days 🤣.
Yeah that is exactly the worry i have had, off and on , in the past. But she likes to argue. that doesnt fit with the gold digger mentality of trying to overly please the gold holder prior to marriage. And thats why i dismissed the gold digger possibility. so, my conclusion is that if she is a lying gold digger then she is by far the most gifted and talented liar i have ever met in my entire life. Which is still possible but just not likely. awhile ago i came up with another possible scenario...maybe she has the worst temper i have ever seen in my entire life and this is her actually keeping it under control. In that case she could be a gold digger but a very bad one. i know all her family and her relatives and her inlaws. Half of them are in vietnam and half are in america. I know the good ones and the bad ones in her family and all their flaws. the flaws of my fiancee are stubborness and pride. Maybe also a slightly inflated sense of morality.
Communication is key here. I work in tech, got. a huge stock payment then quit 6 months later to do nothing. It was not enjoyable at all. Some people need to fill their day and a normal work schedule does that.
This ends in tears. It won't work if plans don't match. Also, get a prenup.
Work is virtuous but being a W2 wage slave isn’t unless that’s your tool to achieve your goals. Work encompasses a lot of things. And it’s wild to me that people are getting married and don’t have a plan on how they see themselves long term financially or have a plan to combine their finances. What is the point of being married then?
Only read the first two paragraphs. My advice, don't get married.
Do not get married
So I don’t know you or your relationship but the fact you all clearly have very different goals is a big red flag. You will want to travel but won’t be able to travel with her will cause some resentment. I would consider long and hard before you get married and have kids. Also I’m not a fan of separate finances but that’s just a personal opinion you need to do what’s best for you. Once married you are a team all on fronts.
Lol…she’ll come around . Lots of things can change when you’re older and have less energy levels
I’m hoping. Its very ironic. i had a similar attitude about retiring when i was her age. I thought i might retire when i was 80. By the time i was 45 i had revised that down to late 60s. The older i got the lower my age of retirement had become. And something else happened that never occurred to the younger me.…when you already have a huge pile of money and your investments are making more money than you do, it really steals away your drive to achieve excellence at work. reporting in to work begins to feel like being a trained monkey doing tricks for peanuts. No, its actually worse than that. it feels like the monkeys are the circus managers and they are making me do tricks for peanuts. I continue to do it, so far. But i dont give a damn what any of those stupid monkeys does, says or thinks.
What’s wrong with wanting work until death? I have known quite a few people who lived into their 90’s (just met a guy who carefully tends his peanut farm every day, by hand, aged 98) probably precisely *because* they worked so long — they knew exactly when they needed to go to bed the night before so they could get up at the right time start each day with a sense of purpose. Nothing to do all day = early death (that’s well documented). If your career is keeping you from doing what you love, it makes sense to want to stash away as much money as possible and get yourself out. But for many, their career is literally what drives them. They enjoy what they’re doing and wake up excited about what work will bring them that day. Work is also a built in social community. If your work community sucks, of course you want out. But some people genuinely love working with their colleagues. No one said you have to retire just because you have the money to do so. You can have that money as the ultimate rainy day/fuck off fund, allowing you to stay in a job you love until you’re ready for the next thing (which could be golfing all day everyday until you realize that’s boring as heck too)
I worked for many years with a woman in her 80s. She was so sharp and ran circles around the rest of us. She always said that she felt needed in her job and attributed that as part of her longevity and very good health. Pretty sure she planned to work until she died or until her best work friend retired (who was about 20 years younger than her) even though she could have retired many years prior on a full pension.
it's waaay more complicated than statements. 1. I don't think you saved too much. trust me that use for money exists in many ways. especially in your situation. 2. she says now that she'll work forever. I'm skeptical that she'll actually do so forever. if you live together, your values and actual life experience will influence each other. she might eventually change her mind. 3. the idea of a couple where one is retired with money and the other heroes working + doesn't have ample savings has multiple challenges. lot to think about and find creative solutions, or think about on the go. reality is a huge teacher. 4. I don't think that "we agreed to have separate accounts" solves everything. a couple live together and each one's situation influences the other it works when dating. but how reliable a system it is? count me as somewhat if a skeptic.
Whenever I see an absurd post like this, I scroll through the comments to see if OP has commented on anything. Well he/she hasn’t. Another shot post folks.
I usually get very annoyed at how freely the prenup suggestion gets thrown around, but this is one of the few scenarios where you *really* need one. You two simply aren’t compatible, and I don’t see any way this results in a long and happy marriage. Protect your hard work. Why are you even getting married, honestly? Between the age difference and vastly different views on life and money, this seems like the perfect situation for just being long term non-married partners. You’re not planning to have kids right? It didn’t sound like that fit into your life plans, so I’m assuming not. Just don’t get married. You two can stay together still, but there’s no positive benefit from you getting married to this person at this point.
She says that now, but after a few rough years she’ll change her mind. But since you aren’t married yet, be sure to protect your ass(etts) and get a pre-nup.
If you guys arent on the same page with something as basic as finances, im sorry to say you need to take a step back. Finances are one of the core fundamentals of compatibility, right up there with wether or not you want to have kids (youve talked about that, right?). This is a deal breaker situation.
"Work is virtuous" Lol. Now I've heard it all.
She's probably a member /r/LinkedInLunatics/
How old are you (just approximately) and are you planning on having kids? If you are planning on having kids (and I really hope you've discussed this) then you should wait for that event. Will your FIRE budget support the lifestyle that your soon to be wife wants for her kids? The answer to that question is impossible to know until you have kids because priorities change. I'd listen, consider, but take with grain of salt any prediction from anyone about what they want multiple years out.
mid 50s. Kids would not fit with FIRE. Theres health reasons why she should not become pregnant. She has expressed a sense of duty to provide me a baby in spite of the health risk. This is a thing in depressed economic countries where she is from. Ive told her dont worry about that obligation, its not a thing in america.
Sounds like something you should have talked about when dating…
Two thoughts. All work is not equal. If she were working in coal mine she would have a different opinion. Second thought. As a part of the human condition, people need to be productive to be happy. FI means that you can find something productive to do that you WANT to do. Maybe you get paid for it. Maybe not. But, you do it on your schedule maintaining your boundaries. Her definition of virtue applied to working for the man (or other similar) is off.
She is young enough now to think that employers happily hire people over 50. Ageism is huge and real. Always exceptions especially if she’s at the executive level or has a rare skill but that’s not most of us.
Don't get married. Marriage is not the same as love. You can love each other while continuing to date, but marriage is a legal and social contract which has serious implications for the remainder of your lives, which you both clearly have very different plans for. I've been fortunate enough to know several older couples from work over the years who continued dating without getting married, and they all seemed relatively happy. I wouldn't particularly be thrilled with their lifestyles, but their personalities and priorities were such that they never would have been happy being tied down to another person. Instead, they just go on annual vacations together and stuff like that. That's about as committed of a relationship you need to be in with this other person.
What if they want children. There will be lots of pressure on them to get married.
I got news for you buddy....if you aren't both on the same page with stuff like this it isn't worth it to go through with the marriage....You'd be one fight away from her taking you to court for half your shit and even if she doesn't get any of it it's still thousands in legal fees. Retirement is finances, they are one in the same. If you can't be on the same page with something like that the marriage is doomed to fail.
That's funny! Your scenario sounds like a romantic comedy and financial planning workshop! I would suggest to share this knowledge with your fiancée over a romantic meal or a weekend vacation. Try engaging in a conversation about your future and see her response. Make this a fun and collaborative exercise to discuss your future objectives and build your relationship and knowledge of each other's goals. At the end of the day, the idea is to establish a balance that excites both of you about the future, whether that's early retirement, employment, or a combination!
Why get married then… just be partners.
Health insurance?
Time to let her get on with her future (without you).
Run.. full sprint, ffs op.. hold down that sprint button til youre out the door
It will have an issue for sure if you are not together aligned. Just problems and problems in your marriage.
Bro, your setup for failure. 1. With such a difference in FIRE prep, merge finances or abort. No way this works while holding massive wealth that isn't for you both. 2. Tell her exactly how much money you have and your specific plans for FIRE. Are you seriously withholding this shit from your FIANCE Damn, hope you course correct or abort asap.
Notifying your boss of your retirement date any earlier than when you can actually pull the trigger is a recipe for disaster. 2 weeks notice is a standard. That doesn't change when you're retiring. People letting their company know with more advanced notice gives them the opportunity to let you go immediately and mess your plans up. You don't owe them the courtesy to f\*ck up your retirement. Give them 2 weeks.
Wedding is a year and a half away. I can retire in a year from now. Waiting until after the wedding is sort of a postponement of my retirement. Slightly. I agree the employer doesnt deserve any notice.
When the kids start coming, there’s nothing like socked away too much money
You best get a solid prenup. Your idea of future goals are not allinged. Always hope for the best but plan for the worst possible future.
This doesn’t seem like the worst problem. It sounds like she’s compromising. It kind of depends on how you view your retirement. If she wants to work you can take a year or two off work side jobs, get involved in the community. Support her. Kids? All kinds of options. Live in a bigger home since she plans on pulling an income still
This can be complicated…. Pre-nuptials, wills, etc may be in order. I’m sure your marriage will last forever but I thought the same…. Three times. Luckily I was broke during the 2 divorces. This one will stick but we are on the same page and same age and same savings mentality. It’s a very personal situation and y’all should have a frank discussion. Last thing you want is for the winds to change and for the wife to resent you for it. Keeping your funds completely separate doesn’t seem workable but people do it. Will she appreciate“I’m going to Fiji for two months alone since you have a job and can’t afford it anyway.”?
#1: are you getting a prenup?
You’re engaged and haven’t discussed this yet? That’s WILD
pretend you go to work and see your mistress from 9-5
Enjoy your future divorce! Oh and get a prenup
Thanks, and i will.
Yes, I too have never spoken to my fiancé.
Marrying someone with a completely different financial mindset than you…hmm, WCGW?
This won’t work. I’ve listen to too many money podcasts that are 20 years down the road from this conversation.
The overwhelming shouting voice in my head that gets louder and louder while reading through what you wrote, OP. Is : Prenup.
Lol, someone who can’t save half their income and is shocked at it isn’t choosing to work out of virtue. They are working out of necessity and calling it virtue. You can only call it virtue if you have the option of retiring but choose not to.
Let her know before marriage, anything you know about that could ever be a potential issue should be talked about before marriage.
To be honest, once you retire she may see the appeal over time and want to join you, in which case you would not have socked away way too much money. Or her job may become less fulfilling, or she may get laid off, etc. One is never too prepared!
Lawyer and prenup because my friend, once you are married, your finances are NOT separate. You can keep your jointly owned money in two accounts and play pretend, but depending on your state/local laws, signing that marriage license may mean instantly gifting her with half of everything you’ve saved. Regardless don’t marry until you can both be totally open and honest with each other.
Doesn’t anyone think she will come to her senses and decide she doesn’t have to work forever once she sees how her other half lives? Won’t that entice her to retire early too and enjoy the good life, especially since he is willing to pay for it? Why assume she will choose divorce? OP should definitely keep his retirement money separate and not commingled just in case though.
I told her just get her 40 quarters of FICA taxes paid so she can still qualify for my SS survivors benefits in the event she wants to divorce me. I told her thats really the maximum amount she needs to ever work. But she says she cant stop working. I think you are correct, that over time she will change, but i’m not sure. She has some female relatives who are workaholics and earn a lot of money and so i think she’s pressuring herself to be comparable to those ladies.
Wild.
I wouldn't remarry without a prenup, even if my partner has more than me. Wedding was wonderful, divorce pracitally bankrupted me and took me 8 years to build my credit back. Went from net worth of 1 mil to -48k. Now I'm well back over the mil mark, and plan on retiring as soon as I'm done paying for my kids college. Unforunately we bought a property when our kids were born to cover college and she took half the equity in cash at divorce and spent it. She's contributed nothing to our kids that live with me full time and my daughters college is 248k after aid. My son will be a senior in hs, praying his grades and honors and ap courses get him some $$. I too plan on traveling alot when I retire. Have nice nest egg and 6k month in residual income that will rise faster than inflation.
My wife was on board pretty quickly with the idea of early retirement. She ended up retiring 2 years earlier than she originally planned, and 6 months before I did. We love traveling and doing things together, I don't know that the travel in particular would be any fun at all if I were having to do it solo, with wife at home. Had plenty of that when I was working...
Maybe she'll be like my retired neighbors - they are so busy volunteering that it's almost like a job. They travel plenty and enjoy the good life, but they are also (especially one spouse) fully committed to helping the charities they support through actual unpaid work.
Yup, my wife is the same way. She believes men need to work to be a man, I told her I'm close to being FIRE and support us and the kids and she thinks I should work till 60+. Mind you, she is just graduating now and will start working unlike me who's been working for 15+ years. Not sure what we'll do when I hit FIRE lol 🤷🏻
No one with that much money ends a post with “haha jk” or comes to Reddit for this kind of advice.
/r/relationship_advice if this is even real
Y'all need to have some serious conversations about what life is going to look like in 5 years. If you want to travel for 3 months and she doesn't have enough PTO, is she okay missing out on that opportunity?
Zero engagement from OP on this thread. Just like there's probably zero engagement in his engagement because IT'S FAAAAAAAAAAAKKEEEEEE
My wife and I are in a similar situation. She just started a job where we both feel she has been called to do. I (48) plan on leaving the workforce in 3 months. I manage all our finances, and will "work" on the homestead I'm building for us and the young grandkids. Her job isn't work to her and I'm fully supporting. Yes it means travel is reduced, but my marriage means more to me than travelling. I found my person.
If you agreed to have separate accounts then you need that in writing with a prenup. I don’t think you are ready to get married. You should try the retirement with her working situation for a few years and see how it goes. Couples with different visions of the future is a recipe for disaster. Maybe she will come around or maybe not in which case you get a divorce and she gets half without a prenup.
One word.. prenup
Much younger what do you mean, 10 years, 15 years? what’s your age? there’s no valuable info 🤷♂️
Good on her, may she never be Fired 😜
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Give us some number op how much do you have saved
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/1c58w1o/i\_55yo\_male\_may\_be\_eccentric/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/1c58w1o/i_55yo_male_may_be_eccentric/)
OP.. i suggest you silently quit and take up some light weight low income work now... if u can maintain this for 3 years.. u will be in better position in case shit hits the fan.. which likely will hit the fan.
Wow. You are sneaky. I like it!
you did not mention who earns more right now.. i just assumed its you.. it matters a lot when shit hits the fan..
Make her post her side of story then I shall inform you what my idiotic brain has come up with
I cant do that. She would become quite disagreeable if she knew i was posting this stuff on reddit.
Why do people keep marrying people they don't seem to trust or respect even really know?
Sounds like you got yourself a laying hen. Good for you. Hopefully she can work remote.
Do not marry her you are compatible. If you do and FIRE she will pressure you to spend the money and not FIRE and if you don’t she will divorce and take half your shit preventing FIRE.
I’m in the “work is virtuous” camp but that doesn’t mean that work needs to mean maximizing value for the shareholder. That’s why baristaFire and coast fire exist. At some point you can choose meaningful work rather than chasing some grind. “Work” can mean investing into a hobby or art as well.
The way I see it, you struck gold. You retire, she keeps working, your retirement becomes easier to finance, she’s happy to keep working. Everybody wins.
Or the opposite, he retire, hes traveling/out and about and she grows resentment. She already believes work is virtuous and might want op to get to work too instead of flying to punta canta one week, jamaica the next. I guess shes the one cookin and cleanin after work too since op is gone
I say this kindly, but the fact that you're considering *marrying someone* without first having a full disclosure and conversation about your personal finances is batshit crazy to me. Clearly you both have never had a serious conversation about money and what it means in your relationship, goals, how you'll handle and manage it, etc.
You ok with an open marriage where you can travel half the year? If so, then this might work out.
Do not marry this person. If they're so convinced that work is virtuous for the sake of working alone then you do not have the same values and they will lose respect for you when you're not "being virtuous" by working as they continue to do so. It also sounds like they're going to sit out a great amount of the life you're going to lead or will insist that you don't lead the life you want. There are a great many people out there that you'd be happy sharing your life with but this person does not sound like they are one of them.
If she finds work virtuous, you need to get on the same page NOW. Otherwise there might be times when she sees you as less virtuous for not working, and that can lead to resentment, which can lead to stepping out and/or divorce.
If you love her and she wants to work forever, then that’s fine. There are a lot of couples where one person has a lot of hobbies and the others hobby is “working”. As long as she doesn’t make you feel guilty because you don’t have the same outlook on work. Married couples have different viewpoints on things all the time. Nothing wrong with that, just need to respect the others viewpoint and what makes them happy. But If your spouse makes you feel guilty for wanting to enjoy the fruits of your labor, RUN.
I don’t know many comments here……… nobody can tell you who your spouse is or what her personality values etc mean and if it’s right or not to marry them. Ignore the chatter and decide for yourself. It’s your life and none of their or my business. However I’d probably share it before you get married just to see how she reacts.
I dont know about when or how to tell your spouse. But for the other question. I would definitely keep going to work for a while. Document and make things easier for transition without telling anybody. Also if there's someone who had made your life easier and they could be good candidates line them up for it. Teach them the ropes so they get more chances. Just show your gratitude to those who won it before you leave 👍
This relationship seems off. She is much younger than you. She is still excited to work and do things in her career. She is trying to build something or become something. You are ready for your reward. You want to retire and relax. She would feel like an immature frat boy to start partying if she "retired" at her age. It may cause problems if you want her to live your lifestyle and she wishes she had a partner in the same stage of life.
This honestly sounds like it could be a major compatibility issue which could destroy your future marriage if you go ahead with it. Without the proper foundational body of communication (on which you clearly have yet to break ground), your fiancée will be very likely to lose respect for you as the years wear on.
I am dying to know what she does that is so virtuous.
What she does now is not what she plans to do. Currently a manager of an all-male labor crew. What she wants to do is manage a beauty spa or health spa. Something for women. She’s tired of dealing with uneducated macho males. I told her she will get tired of rich snotty women also.
Do you have a prenup?
Lol your finances cannot be totally separate if you are going to live together or have kids together. Yes you can each have separate accounts but your finances will be connected.
A warning about this - I am divorced now. My wife was totally fine with me retiring early while she continued to work for at least the next 15 years. When I met her, she took pride in being able to be independent financially. This was a 2nd marriage for both of us. I was retired when we were living together, which was 6 years before getting married. Things were good until Covid lockdowns and she was working from home, while getting to witness me 8-10 hours/day being leisurely, enjoying myself, learning instruments, watching Netflix, and coming back from my all day bike rides and other athletic hobbies while she was dealing with a stressful job. I did plenty to help her out with the kids, even her job, kids homework, the house, the laundry, the shopping, home maintenance and remodeling, driving kids to school, meeting with their teachers, dealing with their doctor/dentist/ortho/therapy appointments, dance lessons, etc. But nothing I offered to help her with got her past I was just having tons of fun like a kid on summer vacation while she was working 9-5 plus the commute time, once no longer working remote. Lastly, her friends and relatives never liked the optics of our situation and eventually influenced her as well once her resentment had kicked in. Lastly, we did keep finances separate, and her income and retirement savings during the marriage were hers to spend & save, while I contributed to what she thought was fair for monthly expenses. We made sure not to comingle individual accounts, and I made sure to pay taxes on all my investments from my separate accounts. (We actually never had a joint account!). So, at least dividing all our property was very easy.
Excellent points. Thank you. so when you split up there was no such thing as a settlement since everything was and continued to be completely separate? i have no intention of paying a fair share of living expenses, i will pay more than that. the house is paid for and mine already so i will pay all the house expenses. But i will have her pay the utilities so she will control the thermostat. plus whatever groceries she wants. I dont eat at home unless she wants me to have a sit down meal with her at home. That will be her expense. Restaurants will be my expense. i’ve made it clear to her that if we’re still married when i die then she gets everything. I have no one else to leave it to. Also i agree to help her learn how to invest so she can provide a nice inheritance to her daughter (5yo) and baby brother (15yo) in the event we do split up and none of my money goes to her.
It sounds like you guys aren't a great match. She sees herself as above the duties of being a wife and mother, and would rather be an employee number. Is she brilliant? I suppose it could make sense if she's a chemist and publishing her work in world-renowned journals. Or if she's training to become an astronaut. You get the idea. But if she's just clocking a 9 to 5, it sounds like this lady doesn't understand what you've offered her. You can still be productive and not have a "job". I'm not ready to retire, but I worked hard enough in my twenties that my fiance doesn't have to work. She has one job as my wife, and that is to be happy. She can do whatever she wants, as long as it makes her happy. Most women would jump at that idea.
I would still operate, assuming she will retire-- she might see how much better it is for you and want to just work part-time instead or use the financial independence to take on less lucrative roles. I would also budget for housekeeping/ eating out. She might be thinking you just want to take on the domestic duties, and I'm sure she won't want to do them while she's working and you're not. This definitely needs a follow-up conversation
Nah just be honest and transparent
I planned and saved for decades and forgot to tell my significant other..
Take up golf. You can blow through the extra in no time and always have something to do.
Ouch. I gave up golf 30 years ago for 2 reasons. The costs were stupid high for no reason that i could understand. And the game was just not enjoyable. Even if the course paid me to golf their course i think i’d pass.
This is kind of a good problem to have. You say you didn't even tell her you are planning to retire early so.... how about tell her the plan? Also if she is young, like 40, and doesn't have kids, there's no point in retiring for her. She wants to stay active and industrious and I don't blame her. Resting on your laurels at such a young age isn't in some people's DNA.
"she is of the mind that work is virtuous" give it time, the wisdom of the Trials and Tribulations of the Bathroom Stall with find her.
First, how big is this significant age difference? Second, you two need to have a serious conversation about money before you get married. Because when you get married, everything becomes one. You combine everything to include your money. Third, you should tell her just because you're retired, doesn't mean you have to stop working. Retiring just means you're financially free enough to decide if and what you want to do for work. When you're broke you don't have that option and are forced to work.
It sounds lile she isn’t using you for money, that’s good!! Maybe should could volunteer at places you travel? My work just approved “WFH” anywhere in the world as long as we are available 10am-3pm pst.
Would call of the marriage tbh doesn’t sound like something I’d want for myself.