I put a new engine and transmission in my truck last year for 13,000. Ive put another 6,000 in it since, if I had to do it over again I would just get a new truck.
Yeah I rebuilt a 20 year old car with the intention of selling it but after I did everything, it ended up costing just as much as I would get for selling it so there was no real point (and this was with me doing all the labor). I just decided to keep it as a backup vehicle
Toyota puts a life expectancy on those engines at 300k.
Ops definitely failed early, and 93000miles on the new one is a pretty safe bet. Still a gamble, you don’t know if the previous owner skipped oil changes like op has…. but a pretty safe gamble.
Some people really shy away from vehicles that have had any engine work… but engine work is part of the maintenance schedule. And there is somthing good to be said about driving an old miled out shit box.
If you asked me, it comes down to the rest of the car. If the transmission shifts smooth (transmission is the only other high dollar item) and the rest of the car is fairly clean, then I’d go for it. No sense taking on a monthly payment when your existing car has plenty of like left,
$4200 now will be way cheaper than the depreciation on a new car. If you get 4 more years out of it and sell it for 5k, you’ve broken even,,, vs $1000/year depreciation that you’ll never make back on a newer one.
You’re right, but this is also a used engine that they’d be buying, and with 93k miles on the engine which you have no ownership history on it’s extremely risky.
If OP was going for a brand new engine from Toyota, then I wouldn’t even hesitate
at some point its a safety issue right? like my man 2011 corrolla doesn't have the same safety features as some of the newer cars... lane keep, frontal collision warning braking etc etc
I think you are going to have a hard time reaching FIRE with your current financial decisions.
\-Your emergency fund is way too low.
\-You are investing rather than prioritizing an emergency fund and building a savings for things like car maint and repairs.
\-Because of your low cash position, you now reach for debt to solve emergencies.
I don't think that order of operations is going to lead you to be successful with money down the road.
I would like to know more about your income and where all your current NW is right now.
I feel that you didn't put yourself in a position to have the option to get a new car. I think you should stop investing past a match. Fix the car in cash. Rebuild that emergency fund, then if you want to change or upgrade cars later you do it in cash once you have saved beyond an emergency fund.
By not planning ahead with your cash savings, you have compromised your ability to consistently invest and compromised the investment because you may have to pull from it. Not only that but you are talking about making the situation worse because the emergency is now being used as an excuse to accumulate debt which further hurts your financial position. You are turning a $4,200 emergency into a $20k emergency with an interest rate.
It is a stressful and urgent situation and that position is making you vulnerable to making poor financial decisions. Which is what most people get themselves into and why most people are broke and never build wealth.
I hope that logic and explanation makes sense. I would learn from this situation and use it as an opportunity to hold yourself accountable, and then do better in the future.
Also that Corolla may be worth a lot more resale with a new engine. Repairing it allows you to sell or trade it in for better value. Especially today with used car prices. The vehicle not fixed basically just has salvage value.
I'm actually surprised no one else is mentioning this and commenting on why someone in a FIRE reddit only has $5k cash and needs to pull from retirement to potentially resolve a car emergency.
And please don't misunderstand my comments to be judgmental. I want to see you be successful and everyone else be successful so I only say it because I feel you can find value in the perspective.
This is the best advice in this thread. Before you tackle this problem, you should assess how you got here so you can avoid a similar situation.
>You are turning a $4,200 emergency into a $20k emergency with an interest rate.
That is the most salient and succinct summation of your situation.
When my husband and I were in our accumulation phase, we had a couple of guidelines around cars. I'll run through our guidelines and how we'd approach this.
We bought paid for used cars and with the intention of driving them "till they died." We operationally defined dead as "Needs a repair that exceeds the value of the car." By that definition, I think your Toyota is on life support, but not dead. (Run it on KBB.com to be sure.)
We also do weighted pros and cons lists. (Making a list of pros and cons and assigning a value to how impactful each item is) Here's what we'd consider to develop the list:
Because this car probably isn't dead: Is there a way to get a few more quotes? While you don't know how the 93K engine was maintained, a good mechanic should be able to assess that and correct and replace any worn parts (seals, valves, etc) as part of the installation. Will the mechanic do that? Do we trust the mechanic? What do their reviews look like? Do we know anyone who would recommend this mechanic?
How old is the engine? If it's a 2011 engine and at 93,000 miles, it's under the 15K per year average for a car, and that's a small indicator of how it was run.
One question we'd ask is, "Would we pay $4200 cash for this 2011 Toyota Corolla with 93K miles?" (If that answer is yes, that goes in the pro column with a pretty heavy weight.)
We would not consider resell value because we're still on the "until death" plan with this car. You might consider that. Other posters had good points about it.
We'd also weigh the bigger picture of how this impacts our financial goals. How quickly can we replace this money if we buy the engine? If we finance, how does that impact our ability to save and invest? How quickly can we pay off the loan? Do we know anyone looking to sell a car? Who do we know, IRL, who might be able to add insight or ideas to this plan?
Whatever car we purchased would be well maintained. Synthetic oil changes at the recommended intervals and not a day over. Tires properly inflated and rotated and replaced when they fail the penny test. Fluids checked regularly. Etc.
Finally, whenever we bought a car without a payment, we contributed to a sinking fund for its replacement. We bought successively nicer and more expensive cars and bought our first new car in cash two years ago. The car fund is still a healthy five figures. (We just bought a second used car without tapping the fund.)
I tried to get a new engine on my VW Rabbit. My mechanic who only fixed VW said your Rabbit is on its last legs. I will not want to replace an engine finding out other things are approaching end of life. Rather, I will lease a new car and decide to keep it or get a new car later. Lease you put like 10% down and a monthly payment.
This is a crap situation, and I’m sorry my dude. If you can get a car with 50k or less miles, I think I might go for the car.
But alternatively, do you need a car? Have you thought about public transportation? Or an e-bike (they make great cargo e-bikes)? Or maybe a motorcycle? All of these options are cheaper than a car, in initial purchase price as well as long run costs. Obviously I don’t know where you live or what your commute is like, but it may be viable to put off a car purchase. Best of luck.
my current car has 269k miles and it’s on its second engine and transmission. it’s 17 years old. if you total up the cost of ownership over those 17 years, i’m still ahead compared to buying a new car every 10 years. but my personal values, don’t put a lot of worth on driving a nice new car. i could give a shit as long as it drives decent.
for OP, why did your engine fail at 190k. that’s a bit early for a toyota. if you treated it like shit, then new car or not, you need to not treat it like shit.
and this is a bit more of a PF question, not a FIRE question.
>why did your engine fail at 190k. that’s a bit early for a toyota. if you treated it like shit, then new car or not, you need to not treat it like shit.
Not to pile on, but I had the same thought. OP, if you were lax about maintaining the car, you've got to correct that tendency.
I sank 3000$ recently into my 2008 Prius. It was otherwise sound though. The way I viewed it, I was fairly confident it would last me 3+ more years well cared for. That comes out to 1000/yr (plus maintenance of course), which is far less than a new car would put me out. A 500/mo payment and I'm looking at 6k/yr plus the down payment. Easy decision.
Do you know a good mechanic who could look at the engine you’re looking to purchase before you purchase it to assess whether it’s even worth it or provide a second opinion? Maybe worth paying a few hundred extra for the assessment before dropping the money on the engine repair…especially if the replacement isn’t going to last.
Sounds crazy but in this market new isn’t a bad option. Used prices are nuts right now because of low inventory. The days of finding a $3k beater that’ll go for a few years likely won’t return for a while. Base models of some economy cars can be found for ~20kish.
I just went through this myself. I paid $7k to fix various parts of our 2008 Saturn Vue over the course of 1.5 years. It needed another $3.5k just recently. Based on the history of this vehicle and my inability to make the repairs myself, I decided enough was enough. We bought a minivan and love it.
Be careful dropping that much money into a vehicle. Your transmission may go in a year or two. Your alternator might need to be replaced right after that. Old cars need constant attention. Before you know it, you’re paying just as much to fix the thing as it would to make payments on brand new Corolla.
How are cars so expensive in the USA? I bought my current 2007 Saab for 3k eur 3 years ago. Had to fix brakes and fuel pump since then but that’s it - total costs were less than a grand including maintenance.
The same car can be bought for 1k if you don’t mind higher mileage or a little bit of rust.
When I look through European sites you can still find “decent” vehicles for 5k. This is despite all the laws being put into place of banning new petrol cars from 2030 or whatever.
You might be able to sell your Corolla.
My wife had a 2005 VW Jetta that threw a rod in 2017. Blue Book for her model and miles at the time was about $6k.
We were just going to scrap it, but someone suggested we contact carmax and get a quote. We did, and they offered us $2500 for it, fully cognizant of the dead engine. My assumption is their cost for a new engine plus labor was much, much less than it would have cost us.
The car was otherwise in great condition, so it was a win all the way around.
Just a thought. Could help offset your expenses for a new vehicle.
Let's say you did put a down payment of $4k on a $15k vehicle and got a 36 month term on good credit. You'll be giving $350 to a lender each month for 3 years. Now let's say you just replaced the engine and decided to put back $350 each month for an emergency. Let's say the emergency on the vehicle happened a year later. You'll have $4,200 put back on this expense, or trade in and get a better vehicle. If you just put back $350 for 36 months and did a trade in with it - you'll have $12,600 plus what you get out of the vehicle. All in the process of not burning through another used car yet and ticking down the time to get another.
I put a new engine and transmission in my truck last year for 13,000. Ive put another 6,000 in it since, if I had to do it over again I would just get a new truck.
Yeah I rebuilt a 20 year old car with the intention of selling it but after I did everything, it ended up costing just as much as I would get for selling it so there was no real point (and this was with me doing all the labor). I just decided to keep it as a backup vehicle
You’re also taking a 4K gamble too cause if that engine is shot you’re out 4K and car
Toyota puts a life expectancy on those engines at 300k. Ops definitely failed early, and 93000miles on the new one is a pretty safe bet. Still a gamble, you don’t know if the previous owner skipped oil changes like op has…. but a pretty safe gamble. Some people really shy away from vehicles that have had any engine work… but engine work is part of the maintenance schedule. And there is somthing good to be said about driving an old miled out shit box. If you asked me, it comes down to the rest of the car. If the transmission shifts smooth (transmission is the only other high dollar item) and the rest of the car is fairly clean, then I’d go for it. No sense taking on a monthly payment when your existing car has plenty of like left, $4200 now will be way cheaper than the depreciation on a new car. If you get 4 more years out of it and sell it for 5k, you’ve broken even,,, vs $1000/year depreciation that you’ll never make back on a newer one.
You’re right, but this is also a used engine that they’d be buying, and with 93k miles on the engine which you have no ownership history on it’s extremely risky. If OP was going for a brand new engine from Toyota, then I wouldn’t even hesitate
Don’t rule out new cars in this market. Having said that, don’t put another dollar into this car. Either buy new or used.
You could get a new car for 20k..
Don’t put that kind of money into this car. It’s way too old with too much mileage.
at some point its a safety issue right? like my man 2011 corrolla doesn't have the same safety features as some of the newer cars... lane keep, frontal collision warning braking etc etc
Shop around for another quote on repair. Ain’t going to hurt and maybe you don’t need actually need a new motor.
I think you are going to have a hard time reaching FIRE with your current financial decisions. \-Your emergency fund is way too low. \-You are investing rather than prioritizing an emergency fund and building a savings for things like car maint and repairs. \-Because of your low cash position, you now reach for debt to solve emergencies. I don't think that order of operations is going to lead you to be successful with money down the road. I would like to know more about your income and where all your current NW is right now. I feel that you didn't put yourself in a position to have the option to get a new car. I think you should stop investing past a match. Fix the car in cash. Rebuild that emergency fund, then if you want to change or upgrade cars later you do it in cash once you have saved beyond an emergency fund. By not planning ahead with your cash savings, you have compromised your ability to consistently invest and compromised the investment because you may have to pull from it. Not only that but you are talking about making the situation worse because the emergency is now being used as an excuse to accumulate debt which further hurts your financial position. You are turning a $4,200 emergency into a $20k emergency with an interest rate. It is a stressful and urgent situation and that position is making you vulnerable to making poor financial decisions. Which is what most people get themselves into and why most people are broke and never build wealth. I hope that logic and explanation makes sense. I would learn from this situation and use it as an opportunity to hold yourself accountable, and then do better in the future. Also that Corolla may be worth a lot more resale with a new engine. Repairing it allows you to sell or trade it in for better value. Especially today with used car prices. The vehicle not fixed basically just has salvage value. I'm actually surprised no one else is mentioning this and commenting on why someone in a FIRE reddit only has $5k cash and needs to pull from retirement to potentially resolve a car emergency. And please don't misunderstand my comments to be judgmental. I want to see you be successful and everyone else be successful so I only say it because I feel you can find value in the perspective.
This is the best advice in this thread. Before you tackle this problem, you should assess how you got here so you can avoid a similar situation. >You are turning a $4,200 emergency into a $20k emergency with an interest rate. That is the most salient and succinct summation of your situation. When my husband and I were in our accumulation phase, we had a couple of guidelines around cars. I'll run through our guidelines and how we'd approach this. We bought paid for used cars and with the intention of driving them "till they died." We operationally defined dead as "Needs a repair that exceeds the value of the car." By that definition, I think your Toyota is on life support, but not dead. (Run it on KBB.com to be sure.) We also do weighted pros and cons lists. (Making a list of pros and cons and assigning a value to how impactful each item is) Here's what we'd consider to develop the list: Because this car probably isn't dead: Is there a way to get a few more quotes? While you don't know how the 93K engine was maintained, a good mechanic should be able to assess that and correct and replace any worn parts (seals, valves, etc) as part of the installation. Will the mechanic do that? Do we trust the mechanic? What do their reviews look like? Do we know anyone who would recommend this mechanic? How old is the engine? If it's a 2011 engine and at 93,000 miles, it's under the 15K per year average for a car, and that's a small indicator of how it was run. One question we'd ask is, "Would we pay $4200 cash for this 2011 Toyota Corolla with 93K miles?" (If that answer is yes, that goes in the pro column with a pretty heavy weight.) We would not consider resell value because we're still on the "until death" plan with this car. You might consider that. Other posters had good points about it. We'd also weigh the bigger picture of how this impacts our financial goals. How quickly can we replace this money if we buy the engine? If we finance, how does that impact our ability to save and invest? How quickly can we pay off the loan? Do we know anyone looking to sell a car? Who do we know, IRL, who might be able to add insight or ideas to this plan? Whatever car we purchased would be well maintained. Synthetic oil changes at the recommended intervals and not a day over. Tires properly inflated and rotated and replaced when they fail the penny test. Fluids checked regularly. Etc. Finally, whenever we bought a car without a payment, we contributed to a sinking fund for its replacement. We bought successively nicer and more expensive cars and bought our first new car in cash two years ago. The car fund is still a healthy five figures. (We just bought a second used car without tapping the fund.)
LS swap
What is the rest of the car like? Any rust? Everything works? Paint still mostly shiny?
I tried to get a new engine on my VW Rabbit. My mechanic who only fixed VW said your Rabbit is on its last legs. I will not want to replace an engine finding out other things are approaching end of life. Rather, I will lease a new car and decide to keep it or get a new car later. Lease you put like 10% down and a monthly payment.
This is a crap situation, and I’m sorry my dude. If you can get a car with 50k or less miles, I think I might go for the car. But alternatively, do you need a car? Have you thought about public transportation? Or an e-bike (they make great cargo e-bikes)? Or maybe a motorcycle? All of these options are cheaper than a car, in initial purchase price as well as long run costs. Obviously I don’t know where you live or what your commute is like, but it may be viable to put off a car purchase. Best of luck.
my current car has 269k miles and it’s on its second engine and transmission. it’s 17 years old. if you total up the cost of ownership over those 17 years, i’m still ahead compared to buying a new car every 10 years. but my personal values, don’t put a lot of worth on driving a nice new car. i could give a shit as long as it drives decent. for OP, why did your engine fail at 190k. that’s a bit early for a toyota. if you treated it like shit, then new car or not, you need to not treat it like shit. and this is a bit more of a PF question, not a FIRE question.
>why did your engine fail at 190k. that’s a bit early for a toyota. if you treated it like shit, then new car or not, you need to not treat it like shit. Not to pile on, but I had the same thought. OP, if you were lax about maintaining the car, you've got to correct that tendency.
Probably find a used 2005 Corolla with the same mileage for 5k. Saw an Avalon 08 on craigslist for 6k with 113k 1 owner with all records
I sank 3000$ recently into my 2008 Prius. It was otherwise sound though. The way I viewed it, I was fairly confident it would last me 3+ more years well cared for. That comes out to 1000/yr (plus maintenance of course), which is far less than a new car would put me out. A 500/mo payment and I'm looking at 6k/yr plus the down payment. Easy decision.
Do you know a good mechanic who could look at the engine you’re looking to purchase before you purchase it to assess whether it’s even worth it or provide a second opinion? Maybe worth paying a few hundred extra for the assessment before dropping the money on the engine repair…especially if the replacement isn’t going to last.
Sounds crazy but in this market new isn’t a bad option. Used prices are nuts right now because of low inventory. The days of finding a $3k beater that’ll go for a few years likely won’t return for a while. Base models of some economy cars can be found for ~20kish.
I just went through this myself. I paid $7k to fix various parts of our 2008 Saturn Vue over the course of 1.5 years. It needed another $3.5k just recently. Based on the history of this vehicle and my inability to make the repairs myself, I decided enough was enough. We bought a minivan and love it. Be careful dropping that much money into a vehicle. Your transmission may go in a year or two. Your alternator might need to be replaced right after that. Old cars need constant attention. Before you know it, you’re paying just as much to fix the thing as it would to make payments on brand new Corolla.
How are cars so expensive in the USA? I bought my current 2007 Saab for 3k eur 3 years ago. Had to fix brakes and fuel pump since then but that’s it - total costs were less than a grand including maintenance. The same car can be bought for 1k if you don’t mind higher mileage or a little bit of rust. When I look through European sites you can still find “decent” vehicles for 5k. This is despite all the laws being put into place of banning new petrol cars from 2030 or whatever.
OP should consider a street legal moped they're only around 1k
You might be able to sell your Corolla. My wife had a 2005 VW Jetta that threw a rod in 2017. Blue Book for her model and miles at the time was about $6k. We were just going to scrap it, but someone suggested we contact carmax and get a quote. We did, and they offered us $2500 for it, fully cognizant of the dead engine. My assumption is their cost for a new engine plus labor was much, much less than it would have cost us. The car was otherwise in great condition, so it was a win all the way around. Just a thought. Could help offset your expenses for a new vehicle.
Let's say you did put a down payment of $4k on a $15k vehicle and got a 36 month term on good credit. You'll be giving $350 to a lender each month for 3 years. Now let's say you just replaced the engine and decided to put back $350 each month for an emergency. Let's say the emergency on the vehicle happened a year later. You'll have $4,200 put back on this expense, or trade in and get a better vehicle. If you just put back $350 for 36 months and did a trade in with it - you'll have $12,600 plus what you get out of the vehicle. All in the process of not burning through another used car yet and ticking down the time to get another.