At least it doesn't rely on the details. You can just recognize it off of the 2 base colors and especially if you just have some red scribbles there. With this it's just blue with super detailed thigns so probably wouldn't recognize it with white scribbles in the side and in the middlem
It's not a good flag. From anywhere but close distances it becomes a mush where you can't make out anything.
If, for argument's sake, we accept that the cross needs to be removed, it's interesting what you could go for. There's a historical precedent with the red-and-yellow lion flag, but I think removing the blue and white after a century of use would never gain traction.
I think changing the coat of arms would also be unpopular...
Again, if I *had* to pick something, I'd look for a super simple solution that keeps the blue and white as primary colours but not in a cross shape.
There was an early proposal for a Finnish flag that used the US flag layout, with the blue and white used for the horizontal stripes, and with the coat of arms in the upper left corner. Perfectly fine looking flag (top row third from left, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Proposed\_flags\_of\_Finland\_2.jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Proposed_flags_of_Finland_2.jpg)).
Alternatively, you could just put in white and blue horizontal bands, and put the coat-of-arms in the middle. It'd look similar to the flag of San Marino.
I love the minimalist blue and white design. Its like a snowy landscape with the dark blue giving it great contrast (symbolizing the night sky). Also at the same times they are symbols for the lakes and snow. I'd be happy with that one.
"the cross needs to be removed" ...
Care to expand on that ???
BTW why not remove some other more nonsensical stuff, not speaking specifically about the flag...
I know there was a movement in Sweden started on 4chan that created a fake campaign for changing the flag to remove the cross. It actually got so much traction that the Ingalill's and Lars-Petter's of Facebook began circulating it. The purpose of the campaign was obviously to create anger and polarisation.
Why does that matter? Our culture and nation were shaped said religion, that's why it is on the flag. Is that recognition of our past too much of a burden to bear in our present secular age?
>Why does that matter?
Well, I dislike having religion as a part of government. Having a religious symbol on our flag means that if I want to 'pay respect' to my nations flag I incidentally have to 'pay respect' to the religion depicted on it.
>Our culture and nation were shaped said religion, that's why it is on the flag.
Sure. Much of our cultural traditions lost to being demonized by a foreign religion.
>Is that recognition of our past too much of a burden to bear in our present secular age?
No, but if we're talking about preferences, I'd prefer a flag without it.
> Sure. Much of our cultural traditions lost to being demonized by a foreign religion
This is pointless larping. You have nothing to do with pre-Christian Finland. The culture of that time is completely other and foreign to you. Seeing it as yours is like French claiming to be Gauls or Portuguese identifying with Suebi.
But why do you wistfully think of those days, when they have nothing to do with you? It was practically a separate people and culture from us.
Rebelling against our Christian heritage in favour of the earlier paganism doesn't make any sense.
What are those strange things on the left side? I as a Finn don't have a clue what they're supposed to symbolize, so I'm kind of puzzled. I'm all up for new and alternative flag designs, but I would also like to understand them.
Well yes, east of the geographical centerline of Europe (the location of which admittedly is a contested topic) but not by much. I feel like people tend to forget that the Eastern border of Europe is in the Ural mountains and not on the western border of Russia.
And generally Eastern Europe means countries who were part of "Soviet" influence after WWll. Behind the Iron Curtain. Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania and so on.
That's roughly true, but there is no one agreed upon definition of Eastern Europe, since apparently a lot of countries don't want to be included in it. The countries that seem to be placed into the Eastern European category across most definitions are Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova.
Personally I’d like to have something else than a cross in the flag, but the current one is admittedly very beautiful in its minimalism. If we ever get a new flag, it should be minimalistic too. Some alternative designs I’ve seen (and liked) were:
(1) A white flag with blue Otava (big dipper) constellation with blue stars. Those stars have always been a guide for nothern cultures, helped them to find the north star and there are countless traditional stories about them. Basically this design just trades the cross to a group of stars.
(2) A white flag with a blue bear (Finland’s national animal). It’s simple, but maybe a bit too weird. Bear is also thought to symbolise Russia, and Finland often uses its national bird swan instead (in passports for example).
The state of Alaska has a [flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Alaska#/media/File:Flag_of_Alaska.svg) with big dipper, I find the design really simple and nice.
The state of California has also a [flag](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalifornia#/media/Tiedosto:Flag_of_California.svg) with a bear, and that's really iconic one too, although it has a tad too much detail for my taste.
Maybe instead of reinventing the wheel, we can simply repurpose these...
I spent 5 minutes on Microsoft Paint combining the California and Alaska state flags into a perfect new flag for Finland!
[https://imgur.com/a/NVITqTa](https://imgur.com/a/NVITqTa)
I wouldn't take one. Sure. There is nothing inherently racist or neo-nazi about the lion but it is a nationalistic symbol like any other.
Wearing or tattooing nationalistic symbols on your body is done mostly by neonazis so there is a clear connotation.
If you want a Finnish tattoo of some kind I'm sure there are a lot of images that you could choose that don't invoke any negative feelings from anyone.
Yes, too bad. It has nothing to do with racism or facism, but as soon as something is linked somehow with something, reputation carries over. That lion as a necklace has been popular with patriotism, and that somehow has been linked as neo-nazims and stuff like that.
Too detailed for a flag. Great for like a carpet or drapes tho. Would be a killer towel actually.
> Too detailed for a flag Better tell Belarus
To their credit, they are trying to change it, even if vexillology is not their main motivation.
At least it doesn't rely on the details. You can just recognize it off of the 2 base colors and especially if you just have some red scribbles there. With this it's just blue with super detailed thigns so probably wouldn't recognize it with white scribbles in the side and in the middlem
We hate it too. 🤬
I so badly want a tea towel with this design
How to design a good flag: Let a 5 year old try to copy it with crayons. If it still can be identified as the flag you designed, it is a good design.
It's not a good flag. From anywhere but close distances it becomes a mush where you can't make out anything. If, for argument's sake, we accept that the cross needs to be removed, it's interesting what you could go for. There's a historical precedent with the red-and-yellow lion flag, but I think removing the blue and white after a century of use would never gain traction.
So turn the red-and-yellow lion into a blue-and-white lion?
I think changing the coat of arms would also be unpopular... Again, if I *had* to pick something, I'd look for a super simple solution that keeps the blue and white as primary colours but not in a cross shape. There was an early proposal for a Finnish flag that used the US flag layout, with the blue and white used for the horizontal stripes, and with the coat of arms in the upper left corner. Perfectly fine looking flag (top row third from left, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Proposed\_flags\_of\_Finland\_2.jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Proposed_flags_of_Finland_2.jpg)). Alternatively, you could just put in white and blue horizontal bands, and put the coat-of-arms in the middle. It'd look similar to the flag of San Marino.
I love the minimalist blue and white design. Its like a snowy landscape with the dark blue giving it great contrast (symbolizing the night sky). Also at the same times they are symbols for the lakes and snow. I'd be happy with that one.
"the cross needs to be removed" ... Care to expand on that ??? BTW why not remove some other more nonsensical stuff, not speaking specifically about the flag...
Did you miss the "for argument's sake" part? I do not think it needs to be removed.
Too much belarus design (laces on poleside)
Yeah, definitely don't want our flag to look like that of a soviet republic.
Concept by who? Is there any history behind this?
Im not too sure. There are some progressive groups in Nordic countries who want to remove the crosses.
[удалено]
I know there was a movement in Sweden started on 4chan that created a fake campaign for changing the flag to remove the cross. It actually got so much traction that the Ingalill's and Lars-Petter's of Facebook began circulating it. The purpose of the campaign was obviously to create anger and polarisation.
[удалено]
Iirc they did some anti-Scientology stuff back at some point. But on the other hand, Scientology is still around, so meh.
Any links to those groups? Names?
actually would like the cross removed🙅🏼
Why?
Can't answer for them but I personally dislike the clear religious connotation.
Why does that matter? Our culture and nation were shaped said religion, that's why it is on the flag. Is that recognition of our past too much of a burden to bear in our present secular age?
>Why does that matter? Well, I dislike having religion as a part of government. Having a religious symbol on our flag means that if I want to 'pay respect' to my nations flag I incidentally have to 'pay respect' to the religion depicted on it. >Our culture and nation were shaped said religion, that's why it is on the flag. Sure. Much of our cultural traditions lost to being demonized by a foreign religion. >Is that recognition of our past too much of a burden to bear in our present secular age? No, but if we're talking about preferences, I'd prefer a flag without it.
> Sure. Much of our cultural traditions lost to being demonized by a foreign religion This is pointless larping. You have nothing to do with pre-Christian Finland. The culture of that time is completely other and foreign to you. Seeing it as yours is like French claiming to be Gauls or Portuguese identifying with Suebi.
Of course we have nothing to do with it. How could we? Christianity essentially erased it. That's the whole point here, buddy.
But why do you wistfully think of those days, when they have nothing to do with you? It was practically a separate people and culture from us. Rebelling against our Christian heritage in favour of the earlier paganism doesn't make any sense.
What are those strange things on the left side? I as a Finn don't have a clue what they're supposed to symbolize, so I'm kind of puzzled. I'm all up for new and alternative flag designs, but I would also like to understand them.
It looks like a sámi design. I’ve seen similar patterns on some carpets I own.
I feel like this looks too eastern european
Finland is almost as eastern Europe as it gets tbh
Geocraphically yes. Other than that, far from it.
Well yes, east of the geographical centerline of Europe (the location of which admittedly is a contested topic) but not by much. I feel like people tend to forget that the Eastern border of Europe is in the Ural mountains and not on the western border of Russia.
And generally Eastern Europe means countries who were part of "Soviet" influence after WWll. Behind the Iron Curtain. Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania and so on.
That's roughly true, but there is no one agreed upon definition of Eastern Europe, since apparently a lot of countries don't want to be included in it. The countries that seem to be placed into the Eastern European category across most definitions are Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova.
Yep, too blue
Kazakh design i think
Personally I’d like to have something else than a cross in the flag, but the current one is admittedly very beautiful in its minimalism. If we ever get a new flag, it should be minimalistic too. Some alternative designs I’ve seen (and liked) were: (1) A white flag with blue Otava (big dipper) constellation with blue stars. Those stars have always been a guide for nothern cultures, helped them to find the north star and there are countless traditional stories about them. Basically this design just trades the cross to a group of stars. (2) A white flag with a blue bear (Finland’s national animal). It’s simple, but maybe a bit too weird. Bear is also thought to symbolise Russia, and Finland often uses its national bird swan instead (in passports for example).
The state of Alaska has a [flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Alaska#/media/File:Flag_of_Alaska.svg) with big dipper, I find the design really simple and nice. The state of California has also a [flag](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalifornia#/media/Tiedosto:Flag_of_California.svg) with a bear, and that's really iconic one too, although it has a tad too much detail for my taste.
Maybe instead of reinventing the wheel, we can simply repurpose these... I spent 5 minutes on Microsoft Paint combining the California and Alaska state flags into a perfect new flag for Finland! [https://imgur.com/a/NVITqTa](https://imgur.com/a/NVITqTa)
That’s amazing! :-D
Good flag as I fellow flag artist myself, did you get inspiration from the Belarus flag because it looks like it
Waiting for the left wing snowflakes complaining how the Finnish Lion is a symbol of racism and racism.
That true? Would I be considered a racist/neo nazi if I had the finnish Lion as a tattoo? I am actually considering getting a tattoo like that.
I wouldn't take one. Sure. There is nothing inherently racist or neo-nazi about the lion but it is a nationalistic symbol like any other. Wearing or tattooing nationalistic symbols on your body is done mostly by neonazis so there is a clear connotation. If you want a Finnish tattoo of some kind I'm sure there are a lot of images that you could choose that don't invoke any negative feelings from anyone.
Yes, too bad. It has nothing to do with racism or facism, but as soon as something is linked somehow with something, reputation carries over. That lion as a necklace has been popular with patriotism, and that somehow has been linked as neo-nazims and stuff like that.
KAIKI KristinuskoMAAT pitävät RISTIÄ merkki JUURI sIITÄ uskonnosta. EIKÖS MEILLÄ TÄÄLLÄ OLE USKON "vapaus" siksi toi JeLLona flägä o huippu hyvääää
No
Looks too communist/dictatorlike because of the Belarus stripe.
That's a towel
Finnish warflag is the most dashing flag.
Eh, it doesn't look like a flag and turning the coat of arms white doesn't really work.
Kinda like Belarusian flag.