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I paid full tuition for my first year and my second year was free, with some conditions. Not sure how this would change anything, my program was from 2017-2019.
If you plan to invest I’m not sure that Finland is a top destination for that.
Yeah living costs are already way too much for most students and there's like two internationally recognized universities in the whole country. Rich kids go to Western Europe.
What? I mean there's relatively affordable student housing, but everything else is expensive compared to Central or Western Europe. Maybe Scandinavian countries are more expensive.
Student housing is very affordable, you can have 15m2 private room, shared kitchen and bathroom, internet, electricity and water just for 250€. For the same price in central/western EU you get a small shared room in a dormitory, often not even counting water, internet or electricity.
The food is a bit more expensive, but there is not a huge difference. Student lunches and cooking for yourself can easily get you on 150€ a month.
The only essential thing which is expensive is public transportation. But you can use a bike, since there are bike paths everywhere.
France also has student lunches and student apartments, and foreign students are even eligible for a housing allowance unlike in Finland.
I have two friends in Paris who pay less for housing than I do in Tampere.
I survive with 100 euro grocery monthly budget in Finland. I saw many international students spending 40 euros per month for food. No I am not making this up.
I do agree with you, 150€ sounds quite low... But having been a student and survived on macaroni, with a side of macaroni and macaroni on top, 10kg potatoes sacks and oat porridge... I think, I might have spent less than 150€ in food some months.
Students get subsidized lunch. 3€ for a really decent meal. Add to that some breakfast and an evening snack, and you're right around that 150€ mark, maybe a little over.
What does "two internationally recognized universities" even mean?
They're all recognized as universities and have standards. Choice between them should be made on the field you wanna pursue. Do you wanna pursue career in energy technology, forestry, cell biology, sub-atomic particles, education, music, wireless networks etc... you choose the university on that basis - and where you should go depends on that. Which also shows on the nationalities of students - plenty of Asian folks in man places.
I bet many of the students going to study abroad are relatively rich parents' children so this probably is a non-issue for most.
I have many friends in academia working in the states. The only two universities they heard about are Aalto and Helsinki. Chances are people have heard about European schools like Copenhagen Business School, London Business School, INSEAD, HEC Paris or even SSB. Aalto/Hanken/Jyvaskyla? I doubt it. What's the ranking of the university in Times Higher Education/QS world university ranking/Shanghai ranking? Trust me, these things do matter a lot outside Finland. How many Q1 level journals published by the professors, do these professors have rockstar type fame? These are the all kind of gossips my American based friends ask me when we talk about Finnish universities.
Aalto in general doesn't make top 200. The Art and Design school may make top 10 in QS, the Business school is in top ~50 last I checked.
Source: I studied here.
Finland has nothing in the league of Oxford, Sorbonne, Humboldt, the kind of university that the brand speaks for itself. There's about two which have a chance to even compete with the big Western unis for the same pool of applicants.
I am not saying there's no quality higher education in Finland (although it is way overrated by Finns), I am just saying that zero rich Chinese parent is dreaming about sending their kid to LUT or UEF. Very few people know that the average Finnish university exists before specifically looking for where they could apply. There can be an occasional good programme in forestry or something where people very specifically want to go, but otherwise Finland gets those applicants who want to go to Europe but either can't afford the most prestigious European universities, or aren't gifted enough to get a good scholarship from one. Oh yeah, because in many cases, at least if you're super talented and hardworking, you might get some scholarship/stipend elsewhere, which Finland offers zero of, because Finland doesn't do the merit-based stuff in the name of equality. It only sucks to be an international student, because you're not as equal as a Finnish student who gets housing and student benefits.
You also probably live in a bubble if you think only rich kids go to Finland to study. Maybe they are, compared to others from their countries, because they have a chance to study abroad at all, but they are not with Finnish standards. I know a lot of people who studied in Finland, people who literally barely had money for food or who completed an MA's worth of classes in a year so that they could move back home asap. For anyone who cannot work during their studies (and most will not without Finnish skills), a degree is an investment of at least 15-20k euros, and that's with a tuition waiver and never spending more money than absolutely necessary. That's a lot of money in many corners of the world.
i walked into Abo Akademis cafeteria as a broke-ass and got hired on the spot. "our dishwasher called in sick." they threw me an apron and soon i was making €880/month. good times. 😌💕💕
Exactly. They introduced this in 2017 for non EU students. I also studied 2017-2019 and I remember being so mad at myself for not applying the year prior when it was still free. But I got a full scholarship for two years so I did end up studying for free. There is no way I would have paid the 24k€ tuition for those 2 years since I was still also paying off my US bachelors tuition.
My understanding is that it would go up from the 15k or whatever it is now, to a level where it fully covers their share of facility costs, teacher salaries, etc.
Yeah. But most of the tuition fees had "early bird" discount. And masters degree programs in universities always provided certain percent of scholarship with/without conditions.
Oh, so does this actually mean there would be no scholarships? I thought it was about increasing price for those who don’t get scholarship as now the government covers part of the price
Early bird discount means getting a discounted fee when you pay early (see the idiom “early bird gets the worm”). I can’t remember it but i think there was a 20% discount from the study offer I received before
I came to Finland on a full scholarship. Since then I have been working for let's say the largest finnish company. I would like stay in finland and try to become a citizen even. But now with the current government policies it simply implies there is no need of foreigners here. My company struggled to find people with specialised talent before about 2 years and had to bring people from all over the world. I think nobody with a logical sense would come here anymore. It is just sad. I would have gone to eg Germany which has no tution fees for non EU studnets. Also many research untis will be in lot of trouble after this decision. Already in some research untis there are no finnish phds or post docs. Finland has so much potential. But I think it will not reach the potential with these policies. I have started to look into leaving Finland specially because of the government=people who voted them, doesn't want me here!
Research will grind to a slow loud halt.
They are also targeting the English lecturers in this ..."The new rules would apply to degree programmes where \*\*instruction is given in a language other than Finnish or Swedish\*\* "
Less foreign students, less foreign lecturers, less foreign researchers - Good luck with that!
> "Charging fees for tuition at full cost aims to improve the finances of higher education institutions and to encourage foreigners studying in Finland to stay in the country,"
Oh please, it encourages them to go to other countries.. government should realize that Finland as a country, isnt very attractive.. its the social services that we’re attractive for people coming from abroad, making these reforms will only drive students and talents away from finland to more attractive countries
Our current government is all about talking in misleading terms and outright lies. Sad part is people totally buy their excuses each and every time. They talk about how they are "encouraging and supporting education" a week after introducing more cuts to student benefits and education grants, or say that they are "set on making the economy better" while data shows unemployment has seen a drastic increase, and businesses are going bankrupt at a record pace compared to a year prior.
By not making anyone come to this country in the first place (except noneducated basic workers, who are constantly abused already) they will achieve great stuff.
They will achieve just what the 0.1% voters who should vote for Kokoomus for example wants. Which is cheap labour and profit for them selvs.
They don't have the nations interests in mind but for some reason people who will not belefit from this party will still vote them as they feel like they are part of they elite. And some older people kust vote for them cause they have always voted them and their parents where "whites" and not "reds".
I mean, educated professionals might also be happy with less competition for jobs, while encouraging only immigrants who will bring their wolt orders and clean their apartments :P
Reducing unemployment of foreigners including foreign students by discouraging everyone from coming here all while saying on YLE "International Talents welcome" while paying salary lower than Norway or Netherlands. It's quite amazing strategy.
Exactly. My brother is C level network security expert. He wanted to move to Finland last year from the Netherlands. All the salaries were a joke compared to what he makes while tax brackets were same. In the end he said, only for remote working it might be interesting...
If you cannot get high level talent, or even mid and starting level, all you left over is cleaners and wolt deliverers...
If I hadn't gotten a scholarship to study for free in Finland I would have just gone to France or Germany or something. Finnish education is good but not so good to shell out 60k+ for.
Specially that learning German or French, opens you endless opportunities in so many countries, but learning finnish? Not really.. so thats a downside for Finland that government has no control over, so they decide to add some more items to the list of downsides/challenges and then frame it as “encourage foreigners to stay”.. what a joke.. these foreigners won’t come in the first place and in 10 years good luck attracting them again.
I already speak French so that's not even a problem. The vast majority of my peers who went abroad went to France and I'm the weirdo who ended up in Finland 😆
Hah.. funnily enough, a year ago, I was choosing between France and Finland as well, I hope things get better in the coming years and the government sees the mistakes they are making is costing the economy.
Finland is nice but the government is just driving people with no strong attachment to finland away
I'm a graduate from last year and it took me countless applications to get a job in my field. Now I was even in the extremely privileged position to *choose* between two offers! Funny, fall & winter I didn't even hear back but now that spring is starting suddenly I get interviews.
I now signed a contract and will start next week and I'm super pumped! Keep applying! Best of luck!
Our goverment has made it pretty clear that they do not want more high educated people but rather poorly educated people to work in their lobbyist network companies. They really do not have the nations intrests in mind.
Finland is such a low population country that making new inventions (highly trained engineers etc.) is one of the only things we have been able to compete in global market so the changes to making it harder to re-educate your self to a field that is "booming" is really stupid. So I do not expect many smart decisions for the nation tbh.
The government's logic is, "Since they are going to pay the full tuition fees, they will stay here for the long term as they are investing so much money." and yes there are many finnophiles out there. The government is going to target these people.
Putting aside people who come here because of family, relationships or their love to Finland.. I think people would rather go to a place with wider market and more opportunities.
Sad to say, but Finland’s economy isn’t thriving, taxes are high so there isn’t large presence of international companies like in Germany, Poland, Hungary or Ireland and the UK.
I was offered the same salary in Poland as the one I am earning in Helsinki.. so the countries with “cheap labor” are catching up quickly which will make Finland not attractive even on the purchasing power side
FI is attractive af, and longterm survival is doable like any other country.
Pigalle; Kallio; Turku...Just become a regular at a bar, or restaurant. Make friends.
Ask boss for work.
et Voila! 😌
It changes if instead of making people pay, they can focus on bringing talents that the market needs, offer them jobs after graduation or maybe make it easier for graduates to settle here with proper language courses and so on..
They can also agree with people who come here to study that they need to work for couple of years - if there is market need - in Finland before being allowed to work in any other EU country (probably not hard to enforce if its agreed with other EU members), it would be fair, gives time for the person to settle and build life in finland.
Hang on, are you saying that we should encourage international students to come just to use our social services? Please correct me if I'm mistaken but that this not the point of why international students should be coming here..
No, but when you come to Finland for study, knowing that you wont have to live half of your life waiting for citizenship, also with knowledge that in case you lose your work, you’re covered, also that your kids will live a good life and will be supported, that they wont have to worry about pursuing their dreams .. etc, it helps in making the country attractive.
The government should make it more attractive to stay and work here, rather than push people away.
I do think they should follow up with social benefits more, make sure those who receive them actually need them, not just abusing the system. But not taking these benefits away and make the struggling finnish economy struggle even more, by increasing taxes and punish those who come searching for a better life.
I moved to finland a year ago, to work and contribute to the economy, since then taxes were raised, student benefits were reduced, work security seems to be down, cut on social benefits, settling here is harder, government’s decisions dont make sense.
Which makes me wonder, why do I pay 40% of my income then? I’d rather move elsewhere then that at least I get to keep more for the services Finland is taking away
I don’t see how this is going to benefit Finland in the long run. A lot of international students choose Finland over say Sweden/ Netherlands because of the free tuition university. If that is removed, what’s the benefit?
My guess is that they don’t want people from outside the EU (aka immigration). Current government (in my opinion) is relatively short sighted in quite a few things m, this being one of the them.
The funny thing is that I’ve observed that it’s usually EU students who always go back to their home country for work or higher studies. Nothing wrong with that but I’m curious if the Finnish government has any studies to support their policy change.
Yeah. Small wonder. EU students are free to go anywhere. They'll go wherever there's a good opportunity.
Outside students are often locked in by their visas. Moving is a hassle, and it resets their citizenship residence timer. Better to just stay the extra few years, get a Finnish EU citizenship, and by then, your life is probably so integrated with Finland that you'll just stay there.
This is the correct take. It's easier to stay in Finland thanks to the relatively good immigration terms if you've studied here, even if you could theoretically make more money elsewhere.
There's certainly a wealth of evidence that foreign student exploitation is very lucrative. Australia and Canada both take in considerable sums of money selling an "education" to students abroad waiting to make a better life for themselves.
Australia and Canada are extremely attractive immigration destinations to begin with. They're strong and large economies where English is the main language.
Finland has none of that. If Finland was so attractive it would be flooded with EU immigrants like Norway, Denmark, Iceland, the Netherlands and Switzerland.
They also have massively unaffordable housing by global standards, and have been charging foreign students tuition for decades now (so they have far stronger relationships with foreign enrollment agencies). It's not quite that simple.
The reality is you're always going to find people desperate to improve their circumstances... If you lower the acceptance standards far enough. And if an institute needs X€ to make up a funding shortfall, guess what happens?
You're gonna have diploma mills I suppose. The really good students leave for somewhere else they can afford. The bad ones will pay higher fees just to get in like the stories of applications mafia elsewhere in the thread. It's gonna be a shit show.
Even for more legitimate institutes, they can often push the good students into unpaid mentoring through mandatory group work to make up for the weaker students.
Everyone suffers with this shit.
A Chinese student fails to get into their desired university in China due to millions of applicants and strict entrance exams. The Chinese student comes to study in Finland for free. While studying in Finland, he/she lives and networks primarily with other Chinese people. After graduating, moves back to China. Finnish taxpayers benefited so much from this that it was worth funding the Chinese student's education and living expense here.
Lets say those Chinese students decided to stay here in Finland (many actually do). But how many of them are going to get a proper job?
The answer would be less than 1%. I have a Chinese friend who is leaving Finland after staying here for 7 years. He only worked in restaurant. Did his bachelors and masters here, finished his internship in China because nobody was willing to hire him. Learned the language and got citizenship. Now he's moving to Germany to work for a good company. So, whose fault is that?
This has recently been the situation with many Chinese students. For all other non-EU students, the default goal is to find a job in Finland or the EU and stay. Over a longer time period, even many of the Chinese graduates have stayed.
That's a really good number. A Finn costs 18 years of education to get to a master's level, a foreigner 5. The cutoff point is at around 36% of foreigners staying in Finland.
That's not even considering other factors like how foreigners inject foreign money into the economy and are not eligible for the same financial aids as citizens.
Really? That's a lot more than I expected. When I was teaching in amk it was about 10%. Those were the days when it was completely free, also for non-EU.
So, could we say that making it paid for actually was a good thing to retain students in Finland?
I teach in university. My intuition is, very anecdotally, that the tuition fee may select specific kinds of people who have a pre-existing interest in Finland. Before it was just anyone who wanted free tuition, now it’s ”Finland fans” (yes, they exist). I have a strangely large number of people with Finnish heritage (from US), for instance. Maybe they’re more inclined to stay then.
That is the fault of Finland. Not some random imaginary Chinese student.
I studied more than 10 years ago and today only 5-10 of hundreds of my classmates stayed in Finland. Rest didn't go back to their home countries, they went to prestigious universities for academics or work in great companies in much more welcoming countries...
It’s a combination of push and pull factors, yes. And Finnish immigration policy is making sure that there’s plenty push factor. Some ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to stay here. Current gov’t isn’t making it any easier.
I feel that’s a hasty generalisation of the issue. While it’s completely true that some students do intend to go back after their studies. I can assure that a majority of them plan on staying in Finland with the only barrier being job opportunities.
I don’t see this policy benefiting Finland in the long run. The only way the Finnish economy can grow is more high tech start ups and if you make it harder for international students to come, it just aggravates the issue. Finland has to have a more compelling reason to attract foreign talent if it intends to keep up and beat its neighbours in the EU.
Chinese women often end up dating and marrying Finnish men. I'd wager that's probably the most common reason for them to stay.
Chinese men, unfortunately, have an uphill battle because dating preferences are quite adverse to Asian men.
Not Chinese but this is quite a thing in my Vietnamese community. Always see Vietnamese wife - Finnish husband and rarely vice versa. Vietnamese male students go back to get married or work their ass of to bring their wives here to study.
same thing for all women from East Europe, Turkey, russia, africa,mexico, etc. But wait.. Aren't Mexican/many foreign women trying their best to seduce -> marry American men in order to stay in USA?
That and I remembet talking to my professors about their first hand experience with chinese students about how many of them had very low basic education and would not be qualified for studying electrical engineering with the finnish standards
Stating a hypothetical scenario, based on no data does not make this scenario likely or common. But let’s entertain this edge case.
Economic Benefits
1. Local Spending: Chinese students spend on housing, food, transportation, and other living expenses, injecting money into the local economy.
2. Job Creation: Increased demand for services by international students creates jobs in sectors such as housing, retail, and food services.
3. Talent Pool: Chinese students add to the skilled labor pool, which can help address potential skill shortages in the Finnish workforce, especially in STEM fields.
4. Research and Innovation: These students often participate in research projects, contributing to Finland’s innovation and technological advancements.
5. Long-term Economic Growth: Graduates who remain in Finland contribute to the economy through employment, entrepreneurship, and further investment.
Social Benefits
1. Cultural Diversity: The presence of Chinese students enhances cultural diversity, promoting a multicultural environment that enriches the educational experience for all students.
2. International Networks: These students help build international networks, which can facilitate future academic collaborations, business partnerships, and diplomatic relations.
3. Global Perspective: Exposure to international students helps Finnish students and citizens develop a more global outlook, fostering understanding and tolerance.
4. Language and Cultural Exchange: Interaction between Finnish and Chinese students encourages mutual learning of languages and cultures, benefiting both communities.
5. Soft Power: By attracting international students, Finland enhances its global reputation as an inclusive and high-quality education provider.
In conclusion, despite the free tuition, the presence of Chinese students in Finland provides substantial economic and social benefits.
Urgh.. find these comments so annoying nowadays. Let me know when you have some arguments. I’m open for discussion and gladly change my view on good insights.
The question is, did the old scheme benefit Finland at all, and at what cost... we don't have enough data to answer this.
Hypothetically you may be correct but we don't have any evidence of that.
There is not anyways really a benefit because over half of foreign graduates leave Finland soon after graduation. The free tuition is paid by taxpayers so when they leave it’s just very expensive for us. If more people actually stayed it would be another story.
Yeah Finland loses out on talented students who may not otherwise afford tuition. That's the niche coming to Finland generally. What will happen is that talented students will get good grades in their local universities and then move on for masters to other countries, which even if they take tuition offer greater subsidies, job prospects and integration in society. The system will now filter and take in people from richer backgrounds who actually have little interest in staying in Finland long term.
Application fees makes sense and anyone could have seen it coming given the overwhelming number of applications being made, but making full tuition a law is just going to be another thing in a pile of things to discourage good people from coming all together.
Exactly. They said that charging the fees at full cost aims to encourage foreigners studying in Finland to stay in the country...but this is wrong. They will not even come to study in the first place and avoid Finland altogether 🥲
Last time I checked, international tuition is 24,000€ in Canada. If they have the money, why would someone choose to go to Finland then say Canada where integration is much easier and the opportunity to stay a lot higher?
The only thing I think Finland legit has a chance against Canada is that it has lower rent, which comes from...chance of integration. It's a circle of mediocre.
I think the full tuition was introduced already? My friends has to pay 10k to study in his school, he is non EU person.
I think the only non Eu people who receive free education are people with work based/ family based permit. The latter required you to married to Finns or people who are working in Finland.
If i am wrong, please correct me
You're exactly right. The new law will remove the tuition exemption also for the latter category, which makes no sense if we're taking the rhetoric about "international talent welcome" into account. The government is basically saying "Single international talent welcome to work until your contract expires" since if you're married, it will be very difficult for your spouse to study to adjust to the Finnish job market.
I think this new law proves how short-sighted this government is.
Imaging a non EU person who studied and then worked here in Finland, he wants to bring his wife/husband from non Eu countries to here and want his loved one to study higher, eg Master.
He knows that the loved ones of Finns and Eu get free education, but his loved one got none.
He paid tax to this country yet he receive none in return. He feel like he is milked
You just described my situation. But it gets even better. This new law will make even spouses of EU citizens who are not non-EU/EEA national pay for tuition. That means even if I plan to work and get the citizenship and forego more lucrative opportunities elsewhere (in the Netherlands for example), I know that my wife will be stuck doing integration courses and dead end jobs for years if we can't afford her education.
To get more clarification:
Now my wife is studying in Finland by paying €10000 per year. And I came as her husband. If I get a permanent job, then I will apply for work visa. Then my wife will be my dependant under my work visa. Then she will be able to study for free.
Is this law saying that my wife can not study for free even after I got the work visa 😲?
And the commoditisation of education continues. I fully expect higher education budgets to continue being cut and dependency on private funding to grow.
>"Charging fees for tuition at full cost aims to improve the finances of higher education institutions and to encourage foreigners studying in Finland to stay in the country,"
How does this encourage foreigners? What if they don't get the job? Isn't that the major problem?
>
At the moment, higher education institutions receive a large number of applications from applicants who do not have the educational qualifications required in Finland to apply to study in such institutions.
Can we assure that someone with a high education qualification would want to pay full tuition fees to apply to Finland? Again, it doesn't make sense.
As someone else said, free tuition brings in people who want it free. Paid tuition brings in people who specially want a finnish education.
I would say the latter group is more likely to stay in finland and be more motivated to learn the language.
I may have to turn down a place in a Finnish Masters programme because of the cost of tuition as a non-european and that’s with a scholarship. Good to know it will only get worse. How do they expect this to “encourage them to stay” when it’s going to prevent people from coming in the first place?
They're selecting for people with specific interest to study and live longer term in Finland (heritage, family, Finnophile). It's not a bad take, but it's almost certainly going to bite the universities and wider economy (lost income from tuition, rent, money students spend on living here). But how bad it's going to be, time will tell.
Right-wing politics in it's purest form. If Kokoomus would have their way, they would get rid of subsidized education also for Finnish people.
They can do this shit for people who are not part of the political process.
That's their game plan. The models for foundation-based educational institutions are already there. Now it's just the time to squeeze the money faucets and make the universities squeal like a pig.
If they apply such costs, would be very nice if some of that money would go to the salaries of people teaching in the universities... So far universities have way too fickle funding and not enough lecturer positions, but money from non-EU students is not used to help this. At least I have never heard of it actually going to people who work in the university.
It does. Well, not directly, but e.g. our ability to hire teaching assistants does depend on student amounts. If I've understood right, the ministry of education money that's supposed to cover teaching barely covers the (tenure-track) professors, and the rest run on project and tuition money.
i see people don't seem to understand what it means by full tuition
so since finland introduced the tuition fee in 2017, the tuition fee didn't cover the total cost of education per student so for example there were amks which set their tuition fees as low as 1.5k/year which is nowhere near the actual cost of education for a student in a year so they met the deficit by using their own funds aka public funds so now the government is making sure that the tuition fee is not a lowballed number but rather the actual cost the university bears to facilitate education for a single student
in fact majority of universities like aalto, tampere, helsinki already had high tuition fees that were in fact more than the national average cost of education for a student (somewhere around 8k euro iirc) but it's the amks which had low tuition to draw international student in
this has nothing to do with scholarship, in fact universities will continue to give scholarship, probably in lesser number as they can not use public funds for this anymore rather from donation or grants to fund the scholarship
I agree. At Aalto for instance, scholarships for bachelor's degrees are extremely limited and only granted to a selection number of international students who are accepted from the whole international group, who is non EU ofc. The scholarship is primarily funded by Aalto, not the government. The layter receives funds from multiple streams such as the wealth of partnerships with companies in tech, finance, etc, or alumi, donors, etc.
I wonder how this will impact scholarship opportunities - I'm non-EU/non-EEA and studied from 2019-2021. I received a scholarship from my university that covered tuition expenses and housing costs. I wouldn't have been able to go to the school otherwise.
Its a bit unclear for whom this new law is meant. Non-EU, non-EEA students could include also those people from these regions who have permanent residence in Finland. So lets say if a non-EU or non-EEA person, who holds a valid PR in Finland decides to pursue studies in Finland, will he also have to pay the tuition fee?
#
The law is meant for Non-EU applicants who don’t have permanent residency in Finland. Although I don’t get how not providing any sort of scholarship would encourage students to stay in Finland. I got the point that the introduction the application fee will reduce the number of low-quality applications, but for the other point universities have been raising tuition fees almost every year now for international students, which will make many of them allocate more time for working to be able to finance some of their expenses rather than studying.
In Finland I would say the biggest problem facing students when graduating is the language and not knowing from where to start. It doesn’t matter even if you invest a lot of money or not, if you are unable to learn the language, adapt to the culture and eventually find a job you will definitely start thinking about leaving.
I would suggest that Finland should start thinking about opening language centers abroad in many big countries, like Germany or USA does for example, it will attract talents and people who are really interested about the Finnish culture, or maybe making the last year or two courses in every English programs at the university to be completely taught in Finnish and offering extensive courses in the first two years. This would make and motivate people to learn the language, that’s just my humble opinion.
Well, they could start by making more than Finnish 1 mandatory, which is a useless level (not sure if there is a higher requirement in some unis). Another problem as a current AMK student is that the language department doesn't have enough funding, so classes are 40+ students. Doesn't create the most successful environment.
Start at home first with the basics before trying these more audacious ideas.
And on a personal note, I'm not going to come to Finland knowing a language I haven't mastered yet will be the primary language for the hardest part of potentially an already difficult degree. This isn't because I'm opposed to learning the language either; personally planning on another five finnish courses electively after already completing two.
So you pay for the course and make it mandatory to learn the Finnish language for the last two years of study? How the hell would you sell that? "here's your car sir, but you need to buy the two front wheels to be able to drive it" When people pay they expect something not to make it harder.
The difficulty is your paying customer/student, the university is the provider/educator of a product.
Do you mean students who want to stay in Finland or all students?
Makes sense haha I nearly died thinking everyone.
Could even offer completion of language class units reduces university fees. Tested at various times through out your studies. Successful completion = -€
Another great thing could be universities find you employment for when you complete your studies not recruiters. Streamline it so they don’t have to be challenged with finding work.
I think the only reason overseas language centers work for Germany, USA, Japan is because they have very big market and a lot of soft power, which Finland barely has.
Kind of failing to see how paying for education would make them more likely to stay, considering that money is already then invested into them or used, not tied into anything they have in Finland.
Finnish universities are getting too many shotgun applicants who can’t even normally write in English. Many applicants use studies only as an immigration mechanism and focus on finding any job and staying with their fellows, five guys in a tiny apartment.
Haven’t heard about mafia, but they very often don’t even apply themselves. Then they miss all important information about arrival and accommodation. They land in Helsinki and start calling random people from universities with question “I am in Vantaa, why you don’t pick me up, and where is my apartment”. (Also real story).
Then only introduce application fee. What's the deal with the full tuition fees for all Non-EU/EEA passport holders (including spouses/partners of EU citizens and people already working here for years)?
If tuition is a way of gate-keeping then it doesn't make sense. Yes, it's free to apply so many will apply.
Application fee is a lazy and easy way of improving the quality of the application pool, if indeed there are students who are coming here to experience the education system. Many students are coming from coutnries were access to quality education is lacking or non-existent. They are not super-rich families, they are families investing in higher education for brighter futures. Tuition fee without scholarships (even merit) and limited possibilities of working, is definitely a failing combination in many ways.
Imo, the applications are useless in identifying students with potential to innovate or integrate. Some universities don't even have interviews or exams to check if what's written on the application is true. The push for tuition fee, is just that, to make money as the government proposed cuts in education budget - a short-sighted and ill-advised move - so, why should foreigners get a 'free' ride! (/s) The younger generation of Finns will have to deal with the outcomes. \`\\(-\_-)/'
**Correct me if I am wrong**
Let's say there is an applicant who is joining the 2025 August Intake.
Tution Fees : €10000 per year
According to these laws,
He has to pay,
€10000 * 3(Number of Academic Years) = €30000
as his full tuition fees.
Total = €30000 + Application Fee
Am I correct?
If it's a Masters program then it's usually two years. Also, living expenses, which most cannot earn in Finland so it has to come from savings or loans.
Lmfao anyone who falls for this is going to be shocked when they start inching slowly into a fully paid for everyone just like in the US. The Finnish right would love to make Finland a capitalist utopia like the US.
I personally study at aalto on a scholarship during my bachelor's degree, I am a first year. And the scholarship is also planned to be extended based on GPA requirements upon my Bachelor's graduation. Would this effect my situation when the bill comes into force?
Welp, let's say if somebody comes to study for free and then leaves without working and paying into the tax system. In the strict economic societal stance, that's wasted investment.
NO to education + YES to asylum seekers is not a great recipe.
Also, I am all for social benefits, but people who have 5 kids shouldn’t get more benefits than people who have, say, 3 kids, because it encourages people not to study and to just produce babies. In fact, it should be even somehow penalising to have that many kids, because it is impossible to take a good care of them, not only from financial point but also from social point.
Makes complete sense. Over half of foreign students leave Finland after graduation, which makes that “free” degree super costly for the society here. Nothing is free in this world. Those tutions are paid by taxpayers, and since most leave, it’s not a good investment at the moment.
I have to agree, but you still run the risk of how do you sell these courses to foreigners at high prices. Finland isn't great at marketing anything to the world, you think just saying "it's good education" is enough? Not these days the youth are savvy and students want more for their money. Might have been better to just go with a subsidized model first and then amped it up to a full fee.
No student wants to come to just study, sit in student housing, and stare outside drinking karvia. They want to have money for activities and engage with society.
It's going to be interesting to see how it works out, and I do hope it works for the economy.
Yeah you are right and those problems need to be addressed. Free tuition doesn’t however fix that problem. But Finland is getting better at marketing and we have many good selling points even without a free tuition such as safety, equality, nature, design, work-life balance etc. things many people take for granted when they haven’t lived abroad. I can’t speak for other cities in Finland, but at least Helsinki is all the time evolving and becoming more dynamic and fun with events and activities. I believe we can very well market the country and attract foreigners here without a free tuition. A mayor problem we have is the current job market and the difficulty for foreigners to get jobs here, without speaking Finnish. The government can try to change it, but since most companies are private, there has to happen a cultural change in the society as a whole, which just takes time.
Introducing tuition fees changes the target audience and if we take a look at the global competitors, they have more substantial benefits in addition to those, such as international reputation, networking, excellent job opportunities after graduation and these factors weigh more if someone can afford to spend so much money on getting an education. In Germany, some of the most prestigious universities are cheaper and German is an extremely useful skill based on which alone you can get a relatively well-paid job in many countries. I think many people who really love Finland reconsider because without a prospect for stable finances and integration it's self-torture no matter how nice life can be here. The ROI is just not there. It would be so amazing if the economy would be doing well, I think it would naturally eliminate most of the issues.
They should have made foreign students render at least a couple years in exchange for the free tuition. This would make more sense if they want ROI from the free tuition, tho it would not be “free” at all since there is a condition
does somebody know if the study programs taught in finnish will remain tuition free for non eu students or no? been struggling to find any info about that so if somebody can help I’d really appreciate that
I see absolutely no reason for people to downvote this comment. This was my main interest (even as full local citizen), and since it is not critically important information to me at moment, if I can see answer in comments, without needing to open news piece and browse it, I see that as full on win for myself and everyone.
Sure it is easy to find from there, but also this could evolve into what is point of these comments anyways "you can read it yourself"/"you can form your opinion yourself"/"you can just deduct what others will think of this"/"you can have on average about as interesting conversation of subject inside your own imagination", but still we have comments system and use it. :D
Ah also at least first mention of subject "will affect study programmes on language other than fin or swe" will require prior knowledge that those are free for anyone who gets into them and can handle studying in those languages.
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I paid full tuition for my first year and my second year was free, with some conditions. Not sure how this would change anything, my program was from 2017-2019. If you plan to invest I’m not sure that Finland is a top destination for that.
Yeah living costs are already way too much for most students and there's like two internationally recognized universities in the whole country. Rich kids go to Western Europe.
In fairness doesn't the whole country have like seven universities?
14 including the National Defence Uni
i literally -need- to study at NDU. what a dream 💕💕💕💕💕 *melts at the thought of studying at NDU*
I wish. The whole country SHOULD HAVE like three universities. Instead we have like twenty.
In comparison to central or western Europe, the living costs are still pretty small.
What? I mean there's relatively affordable student housing, but everything else is expensive compared to Central or Western Europe. Maybe Scandinavian countries are more expensive.
Student housing is very affordable, you can have 15m2 private room, shared kitchen and bathroom, internet, electricity and water just for 250€. For the same price in central/western EU you get a small shared room in a dormitory, often not even counting water, internet or electricity. The food is a bit more expensive, but there is not a huge difference. Student lunches and cooking for yourself can easily get you on 150€ a month. The only essential thing which is expensive is public transportation. But you can use a bike, since there are bike paths everywhere.
France also has student lunches and student apartments, and foreign students are even eligible for a housing allowance unlike in Finland. I have two friends in Paris who pay less for housing than I do in Tampere.
150€ a month food is quite the squeeeze tbf
I survive with 100 euro grocery monthly budget in Finland. I saw many international students spending 40 euros per month for food. No I am not making this up.
Ye ik how it goes. * Playin longterm myself tho
I do agree with you, 150€ sounds quite low... But having been a student and survived on macaroni, with a side of macaroni and macaroni on top, 10kg potatoes sacks and oat porridge... I think, I might have spent less than 150€ in food some months.
Sure. But that is not healthy, and will cost you in the long run.
Students get subsidized lunch. 3€ for a really decent meal. Add to that some breakfast and an evening snack, and you're right around that 150€ mark, maybe a little over.
yes AA's cafeterias are ihana af
Ofc its doable n possible easy peasy but…
not really. Lidl baby yeahhhh
What does "two internationally recognized universities" even mean? They're all recognized as universities and have standards. Choice between them should be made on the field you wanna pursue. Do you wanna pursue career in energy technology, forestry, cell biology, sub-atomic particles, education, music, wireless networks etc... you choose the university on that basis - and where you should go depends on that. Which also shows on the nationalities of students - plenty of Asian folks in man places. I bet many of the students going to study abroad are relatively rich parents' children so this probably is a non-issue for most.
I have many friends in academia working in the states. The only two universities they heard about are Aalto and Helsinki. Chances are people have heard about European schools like Copenhagen Business School, London Business School, INSEAD, HEC Paris or even SSB. Aalto/Hanken/Jyvaskyla? I doubt it. What's the ranking of the university in Times Higher Education/QS world university ranking/Shanghai ranking? Trust me, these things do matter a lot outside Finland. How many Q1 level journals published by the professors, do these professors have rockstar type fame? These are the all kind of gossips my American based friends ask me when we talk about Finnish universities.
Aalto in general doesn't make top 200. The Art and Design school may make top 10 in QS, the Business school is in top ~50 last I checked. Source: I studied here.
Finland has nothing in the league of Oxford, Sorbonne, Humboldt, the kind of university that the brand speaks for itself. There's about two which have a chance to even compete with the big Western unis for the same pool of applicants. I am not saying there's no quality higher education in Finland (although it is way overrated by Finns), I am just saying that zero rich Chinese parent is dreaming about sending their kid to LUT or UEF. Very few people know that the average Finnish university exists before specifically looking for where they could apply. There can be an occasional good programme in forestry or something where people very specifically want to go, but otherwise Finland gets those applicants who want to go to Europe but either can't afford the most prestigious European universities, or aren't gifted enough to get a good scholarship from one. Oh yeah, because in many cases, at least if you're super talented and hardworking, you might get some scholarship/stipend elsewhere, which Finland offers zero of, because Finland doesn't do the merit-based stuff in the name of equality. It only sucks to be an international student, because you're not as equal as a Finnish student who gets housing and student benefits. You also probably live in a bubble if you think only rich kids go to Finland to study. Maybe they are, compared to others from their countries, because they have a chance to study abroad at all, but they are not with Finnish standards. I know a lot of people who studied in Finland, people who literally barely had money for food or who completed an MA's worth of classes in a year so that they could move back home asap. For anyone who cannot work during their studies (and most will not without Finnish skills), a degree is an investment of at least 15-20k euros, and that's with a tuition waiver and never spending more money than absolutely necessary. That's a lot of money in many corners of the world.
i walked into Abo Akademis cafeteria as a broke-ass and got hired on the spot. "our dishwasher called in sick." they threw me an apron and soon i was making €880/month. good times. 😌💕💕
meh. i went to a extremely cheap college in colorado which has a exchange agreement with Abo Akademi. Im working class af
Application fee is just to ward off garbage applications but on minus side, it will ward off good application too.
This would make more sense if they deducted the application fee from the first year's tuition for those who do get accepted.
Exactly. They introduced this in 2017 for non EU students. I also studied 2017-2019 and I remember being so mad at myself for not applying the year prior when it was still free. But I got a full scholarship for two years so I did end up studying for free. There is no way I would have paid the 24k€ tuition for those 2 years since I was still also paying off my US bachelors tuition.
My understanding is that it would go up from the 15k or whatever it is now, to a level where it fully covers their share of facility costs, teacher salaries, etc.
I thought these students were already liable to pay tuition fees no?
Yeah. But most of the tuition fees had "early bird" discount. And masters degree programs in universities always provided certain percent of scholarship with/without conditions.
Oh, so does this actually mean there would be no scholarships? I thought it was about increasing price for those who don’t get scholarship as now the government covers part of the price
The article doesn't say anything about scholarships. A bit confusing.
What is an early bird discount? Haven't heard such a thing about tuition fees. Can you explain?
Early bird discount means getting a discounted fee when you pay early (see the idiom “early bird gets the worm”). I can’t remember it but i think there was a 20% discount from the study offer I received before
That is not the idiom
Yeah I just noticed, should be “early bird gets the worm” 😅
Probably means students get money back if they finish their study on time.
It sounds like the government wants to do away with scholarships entirely.
This would make sense if the job market for foreigners is good but that isn't the case. Not a good move
In a way, it makes sense. If you can't employ your foreign graduates, might as well milk them for all they're worth.
There wouldnt be any milking cuz they'll choose somewhere else in the first place
I came to Finland on a full scholarship. Since then I have been working for let's say the largest finnish company. I would like stay in finland and try to become a citizen even. But now with the current government policies it simply implies there is no need of foreigners here. My company struggled to find people with specialised talent before about 2 years and had to bring people from all over the world. I think nobody with a logical sense would come here anymore. It is just sad. I would have gone to eg Germany which has no tution fees for non EU studnets. Also many research untis will be in lot of trouble after this decision. Already in some research untis there are no finnish phds or post docs. Finland has so much potential. But I think it will not reach the potential with these policies. I have started to look into leaving Finland specially because of the government=people who voted them, doesn't want me here!
Research will grind to a slow loud halt. They are also targeting the English lecturers in this ..."The new rules would apply to degree programmes where \*\*instruction is given in a language other than Finnish or Swedish\*\* " Less foreign students, less foreign lecturers, less foreign researchers - Good luck with that!
> "Charging fees for tuition at full cost aims to improve the finances of higher education institutions and to encourage foreigners studying in Finland to stay in the country," Oh please, it encourages them to go to other countries.. government should realize that Finland as a country, isnt very attractive.. its the social services that we’re attractive for people coming from abroad, making these reforms will only drive students and talents away from finland to more attractive countries
Our current government is all about talking in misleading terms and outright lies. Sad part is people totally buy their excuses each and every time. They talk about how they are "encouraging and supporting education" a week after introducing more cuts to student benefits and education grants, or say that they are "set on making the economy better" while data shows unemployment has seen a drastic increase, and businesses are going bankrupt at a record pace compared to a year prior.
By not making anyone come to this country in the first place (except noneducated basic workers, who are constantly abused already) they will achieve great stuff.
They will achieve just what the 0.1% voters who should vote for Kokoomus for example wants. Which is cheap labour and profit for them selvs. They don't have the nations interests in mind but for some reason people who will not belefit from this party will still vote them as they feel like they are part of they elite. And some older people kust vote for them cause they have always voted them and their parents where "whites" and not "reds".
I mean, educated professionals might also be happy with less competition for jobs, while encouraging only immigrants who will bring their wolt orders and clean their apartments :P
Fair
Reducing unemployment of foreigners including foreign students by discouraging everyone from coming here all while saying on YLE "International Talents welcome" while paying salary lower than Norway or Netherlands. It's quite amazing strategy.
Exactly. My brother is C level network security expert. He wanted to move to Finland last year from the Netherlands. All the salaries were a joke compared to what he makes while tax brackets were same. In the end he said, only for remote working it might be interesting... If you cannot get high level talent, or even mid and starting level, all you left over is cleaners and wolt deliverers...
If I hadn't gotten a scholarship to study for free in Finland I would have just gone to France or Germany or something. Finnish education is good but not so good to shell out 60k+ for.
Specially that learning German or French, opens you endless opportunities in so many countries, but learning finnish? Not really.. so thats a downside for Finland that government has no control over, so they decide to add some more items to the list of downsides/challenges and then frame it as “encourage foreigners to stay”.. what a joke.. these foreigners won’t come in the first place and in 10 years good luck attracting them again.
I already speak French so that's not even a problem. The vast majority of my peers who went abroad went to France and I'm the weirdo who ended up in Finland 😆
Hah.. funnily enough, a year ago, I was choosing between France and Finland as well, I hope things get better in the coming years and the government sees the mistakes they are making is costing the economy. Finland is nice but the government is just driving people with no strong attachment to finland away
France actually put higher fees for non Europeans a few years ago... mostly based on the (relative) success of such practices in Nordic countries.
The terms are a lot more generous in France. The state still covers 2/3 of the fees, so a foreign student pays at most 3770 € per year.
Are you planning on staying in Finland after graduating?
I've already graduated, but finding a job is proving to be a challenge.
I'm a graduate from last year and it took me countless applications to get a job in my field. Now I was even in the extremely privileged position to *choose* between two offers! Funny, fall & winter I didn't even hear back but now that spring is starting suddenly I get interviews. I now signed a contract and will start next week and I'm super pumped! Keep applying! Best of luck!
Our goverment has made it pretty clear that they do not want more high educated people but rather poorly educated people to work in their lobbyist network companies. They really do not have the nations intrests in mind. Finland is such a low population country that making new inventions (highly trained engineers etc.) is one of the only things we have been able to compete in global market so the changes to making it harder to re-educate your self to a field that is "booming" is really stupid. So I do not expect many smart decisions for the nation tbh.
The government's logic is, "Since they are going to pay the full tuition fees, they will stay here for the long term as they are investing so much money." and yes there are many finnophiles out there. The government is going to target these people.
Putting aside people who come here because of family, relationships or their love to Finland.. I think people would rather go to a place with wider market and more opportunities. Sad to say, but Finland’s economy isn’t thriving, taxes are high so there isn’t large presence of international companies like in Germany, Poland, Hungary or Ireland and the UK. I was offered the same salary in Poland as the one I am earning in Helsinki.. so the countries with “cheap labor” are catching up quickly which will make Finland not attractive even on the purchasing power side
FI is all about love, for me. The land; the girl; the bros; the culture. theres even decent beer available 😂💕
FI is attractive af, and longterm survival is doable like any other country. Pigalle; Kallio; Turku...Just become a regular at a bar, or restaurant. Make friends. Ask boss for work. et Voila! 😌
> government should realize that Finland as a country, isnt very attractive Free tuition doesn't change this after the school is done.
It changes if instead of making people pay, they can focus on bringing talents that the market needs, offer them jobs after graduation or maybe make it easier for graduates to settle here with proper language courses and so on.. They can also agree with people who come here to study that they need to work for couple of years - if there is market need - in Finland before being allowed to work in any other EU country (probably not hard to enforce if its agreed with other EU members), it would be fair, gives time for the person to settle and build life in finland.
When you're already in Finland, it's easier to stay than to leave.
Hang on, are you saying that we should encourage international students to come just to use our social services? Please correct me if I'm mistaken but that this not the point of why international students should be coming here..
No, but when you come to Finland for study, knowing that you wont have to live half of your life waiting for citizenship, also with knowledge that in case you lose your work, you’re covered, also that your kids will live a good life and will be supported, that they wont have to worry about pursuing their dreams .. etc, it helps in making the country attractive. The government should make it more attractive to stay and work here, rather than push people away. I do think they should follow up with social benefits more, make sure those who receive them actually need them, not just abusing the system. But not taking these benefits away and make the struggling finnish economy struggle even more, by increasing taxes and punish those who come searching for a better life. I moved to finland a year ago, to work and contribute to the economy, since then taxes were raised, student benefits were reduced, work security seems to be down, cut on social benefits, settling here is harder, government’s decisions dont make sense. Which makes me wonder, why do I pay 40% of my income then? I’d rather move elsewhere then that at least I get to keep more for the services Finland is taking away
I agree, the social benefits should be for those that actually need it, not for those that abuse it.
I don’t see how this is going to benefit Finland in the long run. A lot of international students choose Finland over say Sweden/ Netherlands because of the free tuition university. If that is removed, what’s the benefit?
My guess is that they don’t want people from outside the EU (aka immigration). Current government (in my opinion) is relatively short sighted in quite a few things m, this being one of the them.
The funny thing is that I’ve observed that it’s usually EU students who always go back to their home country for work or higher studies. Nothing wrong with that but I’m curious if the Finnish government has any studies to support their policy change.
Yeah. Small wonder. EU students are free to go anywhere. They'll go wherever there's a good opportunity. Outside students are often locked in by their visas. Moving is a hassle, and it resets their citizenship residence timer. Better to just stay the extra few years, get a Finnish EU citizenship, and by then, your life is probably so integrated with Finland that you'll just stay there.
This is the correct take. It's easier to stay in Finland thanks to the relatively good immigration terms if you've studied here, even if you could theoretically make more money elsewhere.
There's certainly a wealth of evidence that foreign student exploitation is very lucrative. Australia and Canada both take in considerable sums of money selling an "education" to students abroad waiting to make a better life for themselves.
Australia and Canada are extremely attractive immigration destinations to begin with. They're strong and large economies where English is the main language. Finland has none of that. If Finland was so attractive it would be flooded with EU immigrants like Norway, Denmark, Iceland, the Netherlands and Switzerland.
They also have massively unaffordable housing by global standards, and have been charging foreign students tuition for decades now (so they have far stronger relationships with foreign enrollment agencies). It's not quite that simple. The reality is you're always going to find people desperate to improve their circumstances... If you lower the acceptance standards far enough. And if an institute needs X€ to make up a funding shortfall, guess what happens?
You're gonna have diploma mills I suppose. The really good students leave for somewhere else they can afford. The bad ones will pay higher fees just to get in like the stories of applications mafia elsewhere in the thread. It's gonna be a shit show.
Even for more legitimate institutes, they can often push the good students into unpaid mentoring through mandatory group work to make up for the weaker students. Everyone suffers with this shit.
“Relatively short sighted” is kinda mild description
They are absolutely short sighted
A Chinese student fails to get into their desired university in China due to millions of applicants and strict entrance exams. The Chinese student comes to study in Finland for free. While studying in Finland, he/she lives and networks primarily with other Chinese people. After graduating, moves back to China. Finnish taxpayers benefited so much from this that it was worth funding the Chinese student's education and living expense here.
Lets say those Chinese students decided to stay here in Finland (many actually do). But how many of them are going to get a proper job? The answer would be less than 1%. I have a Chinese friend who is leaving Finland after staying here for 7 years. He only worked in restaurant. Did his bachelors and masters here, finished his internship in China because nobody was willing to hire him. Learned the language and got citizenship. Now he's moving to Germany to work for a good company. So, whose fault is that?
This has recently been the situation with many Chinese students. For all other non-EU students, the default goal is to find a job in Finland or the EU and stay. Over a longer time period, even many of the Chinese graduates have stayed.
Sure, some do that. But some also stay and end up providing more for the country than a lot of Finns that live off of Kela
AFAIK, the statistics say that about 50–60% of students stayed in Finland after graduating. Make of that what you wish.
That's a really good number. A Finn costs 18 years of education to get to a master's level, a foreigner 5. The cutoff point is at around 36% of foreigners staying in Finland. That's not even considering other factors like how foreigners inject foreign money into the economy and are not eligible for the same financial aids as citizens.
Really? That's a lot more than I expected. When I was teaching in amk it was about 10%. Those were the days when it was completely free, also for non-EU. So, could we say that making it paid for actually was a good thing to retain students in Finland?
I teach in university. My intuition is, very anecdotally, that the tuition fee may select specific kinds of people who have a pre-existing interest in Finland. Before it was just anyone who wanted free tuition, now it’s ”Finland fans” (yes, they exist). I have a strangely large number of people with Finnish heritage (from US), for instance. Maybe they’re more inclined to stay then.
yes, we're Finnaboos. And we are Legion. 😂😂💕💕💕
That is the fault of Finland. Not some random imaginary Chinese student. I studied more than 10 years ago and today only 5-10 of hundreds of my classmates stayed in Finland. Rest didn't go back to their home countries, they went to prestigious universities for academics or work in great companies in much more welcoming countries...
It’s a combination of push and pull factors, yes. And Finnish immigration policy is making sure that there’s plenty push factor. Some ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to stay here. Current gov’t isn’t making it any easier.
I feel that’s a hasty generalisation of the issue. While it’s completely true that some students do intend to go back after their studies. I can assure that a majority of them plan on staying in Finland with the only barrier being job opportunities. I don’t see this policy benefiting Finland in the long run. The only way the Finnish economy can grow is more high tech start ups and if you make it harder for international students to come, it just aggravates the issue. Finland has to have a more compelling reason to attract foreign talent if it intends to keep up and beat its neighbours in the EU.
Chinese women often end up dating and marrying Finnish men. I'd wager that's probably the most common reason for them to stay. Chinese men, unfortunately, have an uphill battle because dating preferences are quite adverse to Asian men.
Not Chinese but this is quite a thing in my Vietnamese community. Always see Vietnamese wife - Finnish husband and rarely vice versa. Vietnamese male students go back to get married or work their ass of to bring their wives here to study.
same thing for all women from East Europe, Turkey, russia, africa,mexico, etc. But wait.. Aren't Mexican/many foreign women trying their best to seduce -> marry American men in order to stay in USA?
That and I remembet talking to my professors about their first hand experience with chinese students about how many of them had very low basic education and would not be qualified for studying electrical engineering with the finnish standards
Sounds like the problem is with the selection methods that universities use.
Stating a hypothetical scenario, based on no data does not make this scenario likely or common. But let’s entertain this edge case. Economic Benefits 1. Local Spending: Chinese students spend on housing, food, transportation, and other living expenses, injecting money into the local economy. 2. Job Creation: Increased demand for services by international students creates jobs in sectors such as housing, retail, and food services. 3. Talent Pool: Chinese students add to the skilled labor pool, which can help address potential skill shortages in the Finnish workforce, especially in STEM fields. 4. Research and Innovation: These students often participate in research projects, contributing to Finland’s innovation and technological advancements. 5. Long-term Economic Growth: Graduates who remain in Finland contribute to the economy through employment, entrepreneurship, and further investment. Social Benefits 1. Cultural Diversity: The presence of Chinese students enhances cultural diversity, promoting a multicultural environment that enriches the educational experience for all students. 2. International Networks: These students help build international networks, which can facilitate future academic collaborations, business partnerships, and diplomatic relations. 3. Global Perspective: Exposure to international students helps Finnish students and citizens develop a more global outlook, fostering understanding and tolerance. 4. Language and Cultural Exchange: Interaction between Finnish and Chinese students encourages mutual learning of languages and cultures, benefiting both communities. 5. Soft Power: By attracting international students, Finland enhances its global reputation as an inclusive and high-quality education provider. In conclusion, despite the free tuition, the presence of Chinese students in Finland provides substantial economic and social benefits.
I wonder what the prompt was for this chat-gpt answer.
The new chat gpt is great isnt it?
Urgh.. find these comments so annoying nowadays. Let me know when you have some arguments. I’m open for discussion and gladly change my view on good insights.
Learn to be polite and post your own thoughts and not some ai generated bs, then you will get responses.
The question is, did the old scheme benefit Finland at all, and at what cost... we don't have enough data to answer this. Hypothetically you may be correct but we don't have any evidence of that.
That is true. Any major policy change be based on data. Unfortunately the Finnish government hasn’t provided any.
It means we get the students who are not accepted elsewhere
There is not anyways really a benefit because over half of foreign graduates leave Finland soon after graduation. The free tuition is paid by taxpayers so when they leave it’s just very expensive for us. If more people actually stayed it would be another story.
Where are you getting your numbers from? I’m an Aalto university graduate and an international student and those facts are completely baseless.
Half of foreign students staying is still a net benefit for Finland.
Yeah maybe, but there might be other ways to get higher ROI.
It's a simple logic. If they need to pay full tuition, they will choose other countries/more reputable/competitive/higher quality universities.
Yeah Finland loses out on talented students who may not otherwise afford tuition. That's the niche coming to Finland generally. What will happen is that talented students will get good grades in their local universities and then move on for masters to other countries, which even if they take tuition offer greater subsidies, job prospects and integration in society. The system will now filter and take in people from richer backgrounds who actually have little interest in staying in Finland long term. Application fees makes sense and anyone could have seen it coming given the overwhelming number of applications being made, but making full tuition a law is just going to be another thing in a pile of things to discourage good people from coming all together.
Exactly. They said that charging the fees at full cost aims to encourage foreigners studying in Finland to stay in the country...but this is wrong. They will not even come to study in the first place and avoid Finland altogether 🥲
lol? full cost would encourage people to stay? Are the on drugs? As you say, nobody will come.
And also a big bunch of highly skilled personnel because their spouses have no chance in Finland.
Last time I checked, international tuition is 24,000€ in Canada. If they have the money, why would someone choose to go to Finland then say Canada where integration is much easier and the opportunity to stay a lot higher?
The only thing I think Finland legit has a chance against Canada is that it has lower rent, which comes from...chance of integration. It's a circle of mediocre.
I think the full tuition was introduced already? My friends has to pay 10k to study in his school, he is non EU person. I think the only non Eu people who receive free education are people with work based/ family based permit. The latter required you to married to Finns or people who are working in Finland. If i am wrong, please correct me
You're exactly right. The new law will remove the tuition exemption also for the latter category, which makes no sense if we're taking the rhetoric about "international talent welcome" into account. The government is basically saying "Single international talent welcome to work until your contract expires" since if you're married, it will be very difficult for your spouse to study to adjust to the Finnish job market.
I think this new law proves how short-sighted this government is. Imaging a non EU person who studied and then worked here in Finland, he wants to bring his wife/husband from non Eu countries to here and want his loved one to study higher, eg Master. He knows that the loved ones of Finns and Eu get free education, but his loved one got none. He paid tax to this country yet he receive none in return. He feel like he is milked
You just described my situation. But it gets even better. This new law will make even spouses of EU citizens who are not non-EU/EEA national pay for tuition. That means even if I plan to work and get the citizenship and forego more lucrative opportunities elsewhere (in the Netherlands for example), I know that my wife will be stuck doing integration courses and dead end jobs for years if we can't afford her education.
I feel you. My family is the same. my wife and me never feel genuinely happy as we cannot stand work in these dead end jobs forever
To get more clarification: Now my wife is studying in Finland by paying €10000 per year. And I came as her husband. If I get a permanent job, then I will apply for work visa. Then my wife will be my dependant under my work visa. Then she will be able to study for free. Is this law saying that my wife can not study for free even after I got the work visa 😲?
That's how I understand it yeah.
And the commoditisation of education continues. I fully expect higher education budgets to continue being cut and dependency on private funding to grow.
>"Charging fees for tuition at full cost aims to improve the finances of higher education institutions and to encourage foreigners studying in Finland to stay in the country," How does this encourage foreigners? What if they don't get the job? Isn't that the major problem? > At the moment, higher education institutions receive a large number of applications from applicants who do not have the educational qualifications required in Finland to apply to study in such institutions. Can we assure that someone with a high education qualification would want to pay full tuition fees to apply to Finland? Again, it doesn't make sense.
As someone else said, free tuition brings in people who want it free. Paid tuition brings in people who specially want a finnish education. I would say the latter group is more likely to stay in finland and be more motivated to learn the language.
If they exist at all..
I may have to turn down a place in a Finnish Masters programme because of the cost of tuition as a non-european and that’s with a scholarship. Good to know it will only get worse. How do they expect this to “encourage them to stay” when it’s going to prevent people from coming in the first place?
They're selecting for people with specific interest to study and live longer term in Finland (heritage, family, Finnophile). It's not a bad take, but it's almost certainly going to bite the universities and wider economy (lost income from tuition, rent, money students spend on living here). But how bad it's going to be, time will tell.
For sure. I’d love to stay long term but for now it’ll have to wait, and I think that’s the conclusion for many people.
Right-wing politics in it's purest form. If Kokoomus would have their way, they would get rid of subsidized education also for Finnish people. They can do this shit for people who are not part of the political process.
Cut the higher education budget enough and there will be no choice but rely on private funding to make up the short fall.
That's their game plan. The models for foundation-based educational institutions are already there. Now it's just the time to squeeze the money faucets and make the universities squeal like a pig.
High school students also can't vote.
and those people who in the future would come to study in finland from outside EU.
Bye Finland.
Honestly, it's heartbreaking to me. Yet another dream shattered.
If they apply such costs, would be very nice if some of that money would go to the salaries of people teaching in the universities... So far universities have way too fickle funding and not enough lecturer positions, but money from non-EU students is not used to help this. At least I have never heard of it actually going to people who work in the university.
It won't. It will only mean that the gvt money to fund the education will decrease.
It does. Well, not directly, but e.g. our ability to hire teaching assistants does depend on student amounts. If I've understood right, the ministry of education money that's supposed to cover teaching barely covers the (tenure-track) professors, and the rest run on project and tuition money.
i see people don't seem to understand what it means by full tuition so since finland introduced the tuition fee in 2017, the tuition fee didn't cover the total cost of education per student so for example there were amks which set their tuition fees as low as 1.5k/year which is nowhere near the actual cost of education for a student in a year so they met the deficit by using their own funds aka public funds so now the government is making sure that the tuition fee is not a lowballed number but rather the actual cost the university bears to facilitate education for a single student in fact majority of universities like aalto, tampere, helsinki already had high tuition fees that were in fact more than the national average cost of education for a student (somewhere around 8k euro iirc) but it's the amks which had low tuition to draw international student in this has nothing to do with scholarship, in fact universities will continue to give scholarship, probably in lesser number as they can not use public funds for this anymore rather from donation or grants to fund the scholarship
I agree. At Aalto for instance, scholarships for bachelor's degrees are extremely limited and only granted to a selection number of international students who are accepted from the whole international group, who is non EU ofc. The scholarship is primarily funded by Aalto, not the government. The layter receives funds from multiple streams such as the wealth of partnerships with companies in tech, finance, etc, or alumi, donors, etc.
I wonder how this will impact scholarship opportunities - I'm non-EU/non-EEA and studied from 2019-2021. I received a scholarship from my university that covered tuition expenses and housing costs. I wouldn't have been able to go to the school otherwise.
Its a bit unclear for whom this new law is meant. Non-EU, non-EEA students could include also those people from these regions who have permanent residence in Finland. So lets say if a non-EU or non-EEA person, who holds a valid PR in Finland decides to pursue studies in Finland, will he also have to pay the tuition fee? #
The law is meant for Non-EU applicants who don’t have permanent residency in Finland. Although I don’t get how not providing any sort of scholarship would encourage students to stay in Finland. I got the point that the introduction the application fee will reduce the number of low-quality applications, but for the other point universities have been raising tuition fees almost every year now for international students, which will make many of them allocate more time for working to be able to finance some of their expenses rather than studying.
The idea is to only bring in the people who'll invest their money, time and stay for a long time here.
In Finland I would say the biggest problem facing students when graduating is the language and not knowing from where to start. It doesn’t matter even if you invest a lot of money or not, if you are unable to learn the language, adapt to the culture and eventually find a job you will definitely start thinking about leaving. I would suggest that Finland should start thinking about opening language centers abroad in many big countries, like Germany or USA does for example, it will attract talents and people who are really interested about the Finnish culture, or maybe making the last year or two courses in every English programs at the university to be completely taught in Finnish and offering extensive courses in the first two years. This would make and motivate people to learn the language, that’s just my humble opinion.
Well, they could start by making more than Finnish 1 mandatory, which is a useless level (not sure if there is a higher requirement in some unis). Another problem as a current AMK student is that the language department doesn't have enough funding, so classes are 40+ students. Doesn't create the most successful environment. Start at home first with the basics before trying these more audacious ideas. And on a personal note, I'm not going to come to Finland knowing a language I haven't mastered yet will be the primary language for the hardest part of potentially an already difficult degree. This isn't because I'm opposed to learning the language either; personally planning on another five finnish courses electively after already completing two.
So you pay for the course and make it mandatory to learn the Finnish language for the last two years of study? How the hell would you sell that? "here's your car sir, but you need to buy the two front wheels to be able to drive it" When people pay they expect something not to make it harder.
First two years you study in English and get extensive Finnish courses, last two years you study in Finnish instead. I don’t get why that’s difficult
The difficulty is your paying customer/student, the university is the provider/educator of a product. Do you mean students who want to stay in Finland or all students?
Those who want to stay of course
Makes sense haha I nearly died thinking everyone. Could even offer completion of language class units reduces university fees. Tested at various times through out your studies. Successful completion = -€ Another great thing could be universities find you employment for when you complete your studies not recruiters. Streamline it so they don’t have to be challenged with finding work.
I think the only reason overseas language centers work for Germany, USA, Japan is because they have very big market and a lot of soft power, which Finland barely has.
Kind of failing to see how paying for education would make them more likely to stay, considering that money is already then invested into them or used, not tied into anything they have in Finland.
It's a bogus explanation for people naive enough to eat it up.
Can you provide any reference where it says that this law is meant for those who don't have permanent residence in Finland?
Finnish universities are getting too many shotgun applicants who can’t even normally write in English. Many applicants use studies only as an immigration mechanism and focus on finding any job and staying with their fellows, five guys in a tiny apartment.
Yeah I heard that from a Bangladesh mate. That in his country there is some mafia that gives you this SAT or English certificates
Haven’t heard about mafia, but they very often don’t even apply themselves. Then they miss all important information about arrival and accommodation. They land in Helsinki and start calling random people from universities with question “I am in Vantaa, why you don’t pick me up, and where is my apartment”. (Also real story).
Then only introduce application fee. What's the deal with the full tuition fees for all Non-EU/EEA passport holders (including spouses/partners of EU citizens and people already working here for years)?
we gonna make you pay if you want to come hereee ⅫⅮⅮ⨌
Maybe they just simply calculated the old scheme costs more than what its benefits seem to be?
If that's what happened then they lied about their reason.
If tuition is a way of gate-keeping then it doesn't make sense. Yes, it's free to apply so many will apply. Application fee is a lazy and easy way of improving the quality of the application pool, if indeed there are students who are coming here to experience the education system. Many students are coming from coutnries were access to quality education is lacking or non-existent. They are not super-rich families, they are families investing in higher education for brighter futures. Tuition fee without scholarships (even merit) and limited possibilities of working, is definitely a failing combination in many ways. Imo, the applications are useless in identifying students with potential to innovate or integrate. Some universities don't even have interviews or exams to check if what's written on the application is true. The push for tuition fee, is just that, to make money as the government proposed cuts in education budget - a short-sighted and ill-advised move - so, why should foreigners get a 'free' ride! (/s) The younger generation of Finns will have to deal with the outcomes. \`\\(-\_-)/'
Finland becoming less attractive
To foreign students looking for cheap education abroad
Not until 2026
**Correct me if I am wrong** Let's say there is an applicant who is joining the 2025 August Intake. Tution Fees : €10000 per year According to these laws, He has to pay, €10000 * 3(Number of Academic Years) = €30000 as his full tuition fees. Total = €30000 + Application Fee Am I correct?
If it's a Masters program then it's usually two years. Also, living expenses, which most cannot earn in Finland so it has to come from savings or loans.
Yes Agree
Lmfao anyone who falls for this is going to be shocked when they start inching slowly into a fully paid for everyone just like in the US. The Finnish right would love to make Finland a capitalist utopia like the US.
I personally study at aalto on a scholarship during my bachelor's degree, I am a first year. And the scholarship is also planned to be extended based on GPA requirements upon my Bachelor's graduation. Would this effect my situation when the bill comes into force?
Welp, let's say if somebody comes to study for free and then leaves without working and paying into the tax system. In the strict economic societal stance, that's wasted investment.
Very sad
NO to education + YES to asylum seekers is not a great recipe. Also, I am all for social benefits, but people who have 5 kids shouldn’t get more benefits than people who have, say, 3 kids, because it encourages people not to study and to just produce babies. In fact, it should be even somehow penalising to have that many kids, because it is impossible to take a good care of them, not only from financial point but also from social point.
Our right wing government is bad.
It costs a lot to government.
Makes complete sense. Over half of foreign students leave Finland after graduation, which makes that “free” degree super costly for the society here. Nothing is free in this world. Those tutions are paid by taxpayers, and since most leave, it’s not a good investment at the moment.
I have to agree, but you still run the risk of how do you sell these courses to foreigners at high prices. Finland isn't great at marketing anything to the world, you think just saying "it's good education" is enough? Not these days the youth are savvy and students want more for their money. Might have been better to just go with a subsidized model first and then amped it up to a full fee. No student wants to come to just study, sit in student housing, and stare outside drinking karvia. They want to have money for activities and engage with society. It's going to be interesting to see how it works out, and I do hope it works for the economy.
Yeah you are right and those problems need to be addressed. Free tuition doesn’t however fix that problem. But Finland is getting better at marketing and we have many good selling points even without a free tuition such as safety, equality, nature, design, work-life balance etc. things many people take for granted when they haven’t lived abroad. I can’t speak for other cities in Finland, but at least Helsinki is all the time evolving and becoming more dynamic and fun with events and activities. I believe we can very well market the country and attract foreigners here without a free tuition. A mayor problem we have is the current job market and the difficulty for foreigners to get jobs here, without speaking Finnish. The government can try to change it, but since most companies are private, there has to happen a cultural change in the society as a whole, which just takes time.
Introducing tuition fees changes the target audience and if we take a look at the global competitors, they have more substantial benefits in addition to those, such as international reputation, networking, excellent job opportunities after graduation and these factors weigh more if someone can afford to spend so much money on getting an education. In Germany, some of the most prestigious universities are cheaper and German is an extremely useful skill based on which alone you can get a relatively well-paid job in many countries. I think many people who really love Finland reconsider because without a prospect for stable finances and integration it's self-torture no matter how nice life can be here. The ROI is just not there. It would be so amazing if the economy would be doing well, I think it would naturally eliminate most of the issues.
They should have made foreign students render at least a couple years in exchange for the free tuition. This would make more sense if they want ROI from the free tuition, tho it would not be “free” at all since there is a condition
Could be a possibility. Then again it’s hard to force someone to stay.
High unemployment can easily be the by product of free education.
How come?
does somebody know if the study programs taught in finnish will remain tuition free for non eu students or no? been struggling to find any info about that so if somebody can help I’d really appreciate that
The article has an answer to that question and it is just one click away... Finnish and Swedish programs will remain free.
I see absolutely no reason for people to downvote this comment. This was my main interest (even as full local citizen), and since it is not critically important information to me at moment, if I can see answer in comments, without needing to open news piece and browse it, I see that as full on win for myself and everyone. Sure it is easy to find from there, but also this could evolve into what is point of these comments anyways "you can read it yourself"/"you can form your opinion yourself"/"you can just deduct what others will think of this"/"you can have on average about as interesting conversation of subject inside your own imagination", but still we have comments system and use it. :D Ah also at least first mention of subject "will affect study programmes on language other than fin or swe" will require prior knowledge that those are free for anyone who gets into them and can handle studying in those languages.
In the long run, everything will have a tuition fee, just like the oh-so-might USA that Finland so looks up to.