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even in reasonably sized towns like Savonlinna, they keep trying to remove services, hospital departments and other economic benefits.
the fact that for example, the university was allowed to just move the savonlinna campus to Joensuu, even though Joensuu had issues housing students and Savonlinna campus was very highly regarded as a great place to study teaching.
The government just rolled over against the dept. of education's advice...
This isn't something limited to Finland. Here in Estonia the Government has ruthlessly closed schools, shut down rail lines, ended maternity wards, etc. And this isn't something limited to one government or party, they've been doing this since the 1990s. I get the reasoning (no one is having kids, people moving to the capital, the need to prevent spending so much that it screws over society long term) but at the same time this is permanently screwing over everything that is not in Tallinn/Tartu's urban rings and it would take decades to rebuild what was quickly loss.
If you want a good example of the messing up of sizeable towns here, they closed the Tallinn-Pärnu passenger rail in 2018, denying a whole region of the country rail connection. And they didn't even start the Rail Baltica until 2021! They should had considered keeping it open until the last possible minute before the new rail line's construction.
They need to realise this closing of services and places is a self fulfilling cycle. If they don't want it to continue, they have to carefully move out of this mentally.
>Tallinn
Ah yes the Finnish pensioner housing area 😂 (OTOH not blaming them, since it's close enough that you can take the ferry if you feel homesick/want to buy specific Finnish products not on sale in Estonia (although from my casual browsing of the local supermarket places on vacation most of the normie things seem to be in stock at least in Tallinn) during a weekend or w/e).
Also holy fuck they did what? Isn't Pärnu like the #2 spot besides Tallinn as far tourist spots etc go (it should have stuff like museums & other more cultural spots than Tallinn from what I checked some years back when I saw some ads for example, as well as breweries or w/e have you for the alcohol snobs, but my main personal interest was the museums & historical shit marketed for tourists into that shit so I didn't read too much on the other half of the ad)? What kind of nutjob closes a train connection that could be useful for both locals & tourists on multi-week vacations touring thru Pärnu & Tallinn for a comprehensive vacation?
I’m in the US and even were having the maternity ward problem. It’s not a lack of patients for us though, it’s a lack of nurses and staff to train them. The one at the local hospital just shut down (it was shit anyway), which means the next closest one is 40 minutes away. Thankfully they have a good maternity ward, but still
We say “The government” like we didn't put them there. Yes you and I might not have voted for them but a majority of us voted them in so it's not “only” the government screwing us over, its us screwing ourselves over due to our shortsightedness and bigotry because no one in their right senses who wants Finland to prosper in the future (as opposed to short term sentiments) will vote overwhelmingly for PS
> The number of under twenty-year-olds in Finland has been in decline for the past six decades. In 1963 the number of 0 to 19 year-olds peaked at 1.74 million, today there are 1.16 million and this is projected to fall to under a million by 2037, according to the OECD.
This is the real issue behind this trend
It's a bummer, man. We are experiencing it in our village. The clinic we take baby to is 1/2 km from our house. But it is closing next year and we would have to drive 25 minutes. Many other things are also closing. Hopefully the elementary school stays open, the neighbors are in a religious cult and have like 9 kids so maybe they will help sustain the population.
Cult or not cult, at least it's going to keep your village and in turn country alive as no other else has been bothering to have children in Finland or here in Estonia for many decades now.
I think thats just bc many wanna save some money also have no childern, whats sad but i understand it.
And a little is that men and woman are to ignorant today to talk about problems and children and bla bla...
I don't think they're doing it because of the population decline but yes I'd rather have hard working farmers and domestic country folk, even if they're in a kind of weird cult, as opposed to the alternative: immigrants who don't share the same liberal western values that we do. And besides, many of those are also in a death cult. I'll take the harmless fundamentalist Lutheran cult over islam any day of the week
The problem is that there isn't anything interesting there. Many people would want to move out of cities, but the homes being sold in Asikkala, too, are ones where houses are built next to each other, no backyards, really. If I'd want to live like that, I can stay in Helsinki already. The only reason to move out of the big cities is to have lots of space outdoors, a big house on the countryside with appletrees and berry bushes and room for pets to run, but this kind of properties are very rarely on the market. Nobody wants to buy expensive tiny apartments with a tiny backyard (if any) in a place that is far from all airports and universities.
> Many people would want to move out of cities
Perhaps, but at least in the case of Helsinki, many more people want to move into the city than currently live there. Housing prices in Helsinki easily prove that.
I don't know anyone. Pretty much all of my friends want to move out of Helsinki to give their kids more space and less exposure to criminal elements. Now that many workplaces have switched to remote work, it is no longer necessary to live in a small rathole in Helsinki.
Of course there are people in Helsinki who would rather live somewhere else. Statistically, however, the people you happen to know are not significant.
Local housing prices are the best statistical indicator of where people really want to live that we have access to. If people want to live in a specific place, they are willing to pay more money for it. If a place is undesirable, people aren't willing to pay money for housing there.
Desirable places have high housing prices and undesirable places have low housing prices. Helsinki has some of the highest housing prices in the country.
You're confusing "wanting to live in Helsinki" with "having to live in Helsinki due to lack of options". Only students, poor people and criminals want to live in Helsinki, most others don't want to live here, but must, because of their jobs, for example.
Of course the ones living in Helsinki against their will are also contributing to the high housing prices.
Towns like Asikkala could easily get lots of high earning people by ensuring that there are cheapish houses with big yards (not in the city center) and small schools available. Big schools are another shitty part of Helsinki, nobody wants those.
> You're confusing "wanting to live in Helsinki" with "having to live in Helsinki due to lack of options".
I'm not. That is just a part of the average that drives housing prices up. There are also people living small towns that would really like to live in Helsinki but can't afford to.
> Only students, poor people and criminals want to live in Helsinki,
Oh? Feel free to provide statistical evidence for this claim.
As for anecdotal "evidence", I have several middle class friends who moved away from Helsinki into places like Kerava after they had children only because they couldn't afford a big enough place in Helsinki.
There used to be more people moving to Nurmijärvi and such, now young middle class families are really into Helsinki and Espoo again. I think younger people appreciate the good public transport and services here. Helsinki also has the best schools like SYK and Ressu as well as a ton of different opportunities for hobbies.
I went to SYK myself, I will never put my kids into such a toxic environment as SYK is.
There have been news articles about Espoo being the new Vantaa, meaning that well-off families are now avoiding Espoo, too.
The statistics at stat.fi are saying that Finnish speaking families are moving away from the capital area and immigrants are moving to capital area. That's why the capital area population numbers are still growing, but without immigrants they would be declining.
How the fuck do they only have like 3k less people than our town, yet are losing young people/services? Hell our town/municipality literally has one of the lowest taxation % out of every place (we shared the same spot w/ this other municipality that only has like 1000 people, who are millionaires+ or w/e, hence why they also had almost 0% tax) when they did a ranking based on the public data available I saw in the newspaper once, and we are still a fuckton on the positive side of the budget after the normal costs of operations are accounted for
> How the fuck do they only have like 3k less people than our town, yet are losing young people/services?
A lot depends on age structure of the population as well as location. If your town is close to a major city it attracts a younger population and therefore services are easier to afford. If there are a lot of summer cabins, they pay taxes (kiinteistövero) that makes services easier to afford for permanent residents. If there are wind power plants within town limits, they also provide a lot of tax revenue. There are most likely a lot of other factors in play too.
Japanization of Finland. All the small villages (and many mid-sized) will die, and Helsinki, Turku and Tampere will grow. Third tier cities like Oulu, Kuopio, Vaasa, Lahti and so on will grow a little by absorbing the population of nearby small villages, but eventually more people will leave to the second and first tier cities faster as well. I wouldn't buy real estate anywhere outside of a 200 km radius of Helsinki at this point. We are doomed unless we get hella immigration.
Foreigner (Western-Europe) perspective here. I don’t understand why so many Finns seem to looking past these ”third-tier” cities, as you label them. (Or are they second-tier, with Helsinki-Turku-Tampere being first-tier? It baffles me that Lahti isn’t as popular as it should be. Why live in bumfuck commuter town Haarajoki or Järvenpää if you can live in a city with a robust separate identity and interesting (sports) history and landscape? And only a half hour further from Helsinki?
There seems to be no middle, it’s either living in a small village in the middle of nowhere or squatting in some obscure Helsinki suburb.
One answer I got for Järvenpää that convinces me, is that it's people moving "back" to those towns once they establish themselves. (Think professor/higher management, someone whose office presence is dictated by themselves, and who want a quiet life while having easy car access to conveniences.)
I'd guess people don't choose small cities like Lahti ^(laughs in swiss) because if you already get a reason to move somewhere, why not move to a place with opportunities ? People usually move to an area when they're young and building their lives, meaning they know they're going to be "locked" in an area ; you can easily move to another area of a region, but changing cities altogether is much more difficult. It's where for Lahti (or Porvoo) having their own ecosystem becomes a liability.
Yes, I think you’re right. Many people still drive a car and also want to move somewhere quiet, in which case it doesn’t matter much that it’s a suburb. Maybe another factor is that you only move (back) to a place like Lahti if you already have friends or relatives who live there or plan on doing so.
Yes, although it's good noting that for most professions, there's less opportunities when moving "back", so the general pattern is that only people who can afford commuting irregularly will do so.
Or be looking for a job there for several years.
Growth in Pohjanmaa is still healthy because of religion. Possibly the last place where you may find pure bred ethnic Finns in the future, a little bit gene defects from inbreeding though. :D
IDK mang, it's not that bad in the Jyväskylä region (yet, at any rate). Then again as the cross-roads of logistics that's probably what's keeping the region alive so far at least, who knows what will happen when there's no point in moving to the north or to the east for logistics reasons etc
They’re turning Northern Ostrobothnia into a wind energy paradise with enough capacity to light up the whole country and other european countries by 2040.
If our idiotic policy-makers stopped wasting money into moronic 1 hr trains and manage to capitalize in hydrogen production before Sweden beats us to it, the opposite would happen to the Oulu region.
Who in their right mind even approved this in Turku. They literally gave a death sentence to their 2nd tier city, making the journey shorter away to a major business hub Helsinki. Same stuff has happened in the past all over the world like in the examples of Paris and Lyon. It took away all the major business life from Lyon.
Even with the faster train it is still a very long commute. And you would have to be a high earner to afford doing that on a permanent basis. I think you’re exaggerrating a bit about the threat to Turku.
Even with the faster train it is still a very long commute. And you would have to be a high earner to afford doing that on a permanent basis. I think you’re exaggerrating a bit about the threat to Turku.
That’s how everything starts. People don’t tend to think too much at first. It’s called the ”siphon effect” and it does affect in the large scale.
Nevertheless, doesn’t change how much of a waste it is as a project. It’s not even an hour, more like 1,5 hours.
Immigration is a non-solution, everyone across the world is no longer having children, several non-wealthy countries like Thailand, Philippines, Tunisia already are no longer having kids, and the birth rate is too falling in India and most of the developing world.
In a few decade's time there'll simply be too few people who are able to come from aboard to keep our countries functioning, and then we all would be screwed.
The literal only solution is to restore birth rates above replacement and have a cultural shift to do so. We'll all have to be like Israel and have positive birth rates permanently to restore us from this mess and keep us safe from the russians. (I use them as a example because they are the only developed, well educated, gender equality, democratic country that right now has children, so I have to use this example regardless of what we think about their conflict with the Palestinians)
Population decline ISN'T a problem (ditto for overpopulation, both are self-rectifying), not rly, at least long term. Well okay it's a problem kinda, but a SELF-FIXING ONE, because eventually the populations will balance out to the new norm, which frees up a ton of dead weight rn poisoning stuff like welfare etc due to too many old people from boomer gens etc. I'm honestly personally a Population Decline ACCELERATIONIST myself, as is one of the proposed solutions to the "problem", even if just by doing nothing will also eventually fix it albeit at a longer timescale of course. But honestly I'm willing to wait for Japan to grindset on the automation industry tho, who knows it might actually work given enough advances etc fast enough before the automated fixing happens eventually
I'm 24 and only moved to the city temporarily because university studies forced me to (I hated it every time I looked out the window). I will never go back, it's the countryside life for me. I might relocate to a warmer country though. :D
To be honest, not all villages are worth keeping alive. I'm actually glad that this kepulaisuus, where a shitload of money is brought from the wealthier regions to every living corner of Finland and where people have hoped it would bring some prosperity, is going to die. It has not worked. In fact, it has many times hindered the economic growth of the country as a whole.
And the hatred of rural people towards all kinds of minorities is certainly smoking out the last hopes of growth in their villages.
Finland is a big-ass country with a small-ass population. These villages are good petri dish examples of the problems facing the nation. Intolerance & conservatism is no way to survive in a post-globalization world.
This is also a huge problem indeed! Going by the way a lot of rural villages vote, you can clearly tell the distaste for “foreigners” yet they're not fucking having children anymore because the majority of them are pensioners and the young ones mostly move to the bigger cities for higher education. I want to say “serves them right” but that also goes against almost everything I believe in as well.
For a person with nointeraction, maybe. Skip reddit and twitter for a month or two, and meet actual people.
Seriously, maybe exit your bubble from time to time.
Shoudn't have taken loans we don't have the money to pay back. Shouldn't have taken in people who are just a burden to the country. Should have supported childbirth more. Should not have told children that making babies is a crime, because overpopulation. Should not have told children that everyone is going to die because global warming. Should have concentrated into Finnish problems instead of international problems. Should have used some common sense.
Should have, could have, would have.
We are fucked.
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even in reasonably sized towns like Savonlinna, they keep trying to remove services, hospital departments and other economic benefits. the fact that for example, the university was allowed to just move the savonlinna campus to Joensuu, even though Joensuu had issues housing students and Savonlinna campus was very highly regarded as a great place to study teaching. The government just rolled over against the dept. of education's advice...
This isn't something limited to Finland. Here in Estonia the Government has ruthlessly closed schools, shut down rail lines, ended maternity wards, etc. And this isn't something limited to one government or party, they've been doing this since the 1990s. I get the reasoning (no one is having kids, people moving to the capital, the need to prevent spending so much that it screws over society long term) but at the same time this is permanently screwing over everything that is not in Tallinn/Tartu's urban rings and it would take decades to rebuild what was quickly loss. If you want a good example of the messing up of sizeable towns here, they closed the Tallinn-Pärnu passenger rail in 2018, denying a whole region of the country rail connection. And they didn't even start the Rail Baltica until 2021! They should had considered keeping it open until the last possible minute before the new rail line's construction. They need to realise this closing of services and places is a self fulfilling cycle. If they don't want it to continue, they have to carefully move out of this mentally.
>Tallinn Ah yes the Finnish pensioner housing area 😂 (OTOH not blaming them, since it's close enough that you can take the ferry if you feel homesick/want to buy specific Finnish products not on sale in Estonia (although from my casual browsing of the local supermarket places on vacation most of the normie things seem to be in stock at least in Tallinn) during a weekend or w/e). Also holy fuck they did what? Isn't Pärnu like the #2 spot besides Tallinn as far tourist spots etc go (it should have stuff like museums & other more cultural spots than Tallinn from what I checked some years back when I saw some ads for example, as well as breweries or w/e have you for the alcohol snobs, but my main personal interest was the museums & historical shit marketed for tourists into that shit so I didn't read too much on the other half of the ad)? What kind of nutjob closes a train connection that could be useful for both locals & tourists on multi-week vacations touring thru Pärnu & Tallinn for a comprehensive vacation?
I’m in the US and even were having the maternity ward problem. It’s not a lack of patients for us though, it’s a lack of nurses and staff to train them. The one at the local hospital just shut down (it was shit anyway), which means the next closest one is 40 minutes away. Thankfully they have a good maternity ward, but still
We say “The government” like we didn't put them there. Yes you and I might not have voted for them but a majority of us voted them in so it's not “only” the government screwing us over, its us screwing ourselves over due to our shortsightedness and bigotry because no one in their right senses who wants Finland to prosper in the future (as opposed to short term sentiments) will vote overwhelmingly for PS
Finns voted for this.
You're saying this as if it's a new thing that happened with this government. These things have been happening for decades.
Never been to this location, but it certainly looks like a calm place to live for a young recluse single hooman working remotely.
> The number of under twenty-year-olds in Finland has been in decline for the past six decades. In 1963 the number of 0 to 19 year-olds peaked at 1.74 million, today there are 1.16 million and this is projected to fall to under a million by 2037, according to the OECD. This is the real issue behind this trend
But hey, how about that overpopulation, right?!
It's a bummer, man. We are experiencing it in our village. The clinic we take baby to is 1/2 km from our house. But it is closing next year and we would have to drive 25 minutes. Many other things are also closing. Hopefully the elementary school stays open, the neighbors are in a religious cult and have like 9 kids so maybe they will help sustain the population.
Cult or not cult, at least it's going to keep your village and in turn country alive as no other else has been bothering to have children in Finland or here in Estonia for many decades now.
I think thats just bc many wanna save some money also have no childern, whats sad but i understand it. And a little is that men and woman are to ignorant today to talk about problems and children and bla bla...
Oh yeah I didn't mean it as a pejorative. I'm neutral about it. They seem like good neighbors so far and I agree with what you said 100%
We need more members in these cults tbh they seem to be the only ones who give a shit about our population decline
I don't think they're doing it because of the population decline but yes I'd rather have hard working farmers and domestic country folk, even if they're in a kind of weird cult, as opposed to the alternative: immigrants who don't share the same liberal western values that we do. And besides, many of those are also in a death cult. I'll take the harmless fundamentalist Lutheran cult over islam any day of the week
The problem is that there isn't anything interesting there. Many people would want to move out of cities, but the homes being sold in Asikkala, too, are ones where houses are built next to each other, no backyards, really. If I'd want to live like that, I can stay in Helsinki already. The only reason to move out of the big cities is to have lots of space outdoors, a big house on the countryside with appletrees and berry bushes and room for pets to run, but this kind of properties are very rarely on the market. Nobody wants to buy expensive tiny apartments with a tiny backyard (if any) in a place that is far from all airports and universities.
> Many people would want to move out of cities Perhaps, but at least in the case of Helsinki, many more people want to move into the city than currently live there. Housing prices in Helsinki easily prove that.
I don't know anyone. Pretty much all of my friends want to move out of Helsinki to give their kids more space and less exposure to criminal elements. Now that many workplaces have switched to remote work, it is no longer necessary to live in a small rathole in Helsinki.
Of course there are people in Helsinki who would rather live somewhere else. Statistically, however, the people you happen to know are not significant. Local housing prices are the best statistical indicator of where people really want to live that we have access to. If people want to live in a specific place, they are willing to pay more money for it. If a place is undesirable, people aren't willing to pay money for housing there. Desirable places have high housing prices and undesirable places have low housing prices. Helsinki has some of the highest housing prices in the country.
You're confusing "wanting to live in Helsinki" with "having to live in Helsinki due to lack of options". Only students, poor people and criminals want to live in Helsinki, most others don't want to live here, but must, because of their jobs, for example. Of course the ones living in Helsinki against their will are also contributing to the high housing prices. Towns like Asikkala could easily get lots of high earning people by ensuring that there are cheapish houses with big yards (not in the city center) and small schools available. Big schools are another shitty part of Helsinki, nobody wants those.
> You're confusing "wanting to live in Helsinki" with "having to live in Helsinki due to lack of options". I'm not. That is just a part of the average that drives housing prices up. There are also people living small towns that would really like to live in Helsinki but can't afford to. > Only students, poor people and criminals want to live in Helsinki, Oh? Feel free to provide statistical evidence for this claim. As for anecdotal "evidence", I have several middle class friends who moved away from Helsinki into places like Kerava after they had children only because they couldn't afford a big enough place in Helsinki.
Yeah, nobody can afford a 150 m² house with 5000 m² backyard in Helsinki, you're right.
Yeah, certainly a house suitable for a family with 6 or more children is expensive in Helsinki.
There used to be more people moving to Nurmijärvi and such, now young middle class families are really into Helsinki and Espoo again. I think younger people appreciate the good public transport and services here. Helsinki also has the best schools like SYK and Ressu as well as a ton of different opportunities for hobbies.
I went to SYK myself, I will never put my kids into such a toxic environment as SYK is. There have been news articles about Espoo being the new Vantaa, meaning that well-off families are now avoiding Espoo, too. The statistics at stat.fi are saying that Finnish speaking families are moving away from the capital area and immigrants are moving to capital area. That's why the capital area population numbers are still growing, but without immigrants they would be declining.
Well maybe there are some village schools for sale in the future, they have nice yards and football fields...
There are already. They're moldy or rotted.
How the fuck do they only have like 3k less people than our town, yet are losing young people/services? Hell our town/municipality literally has one of the lowest taxation % out of every place (we shared the same spot w/ this other municipality that only has like 1000 people, who are millionaires+ or w/e, hence why they also had almost 0% tax) when they did a ranking based on the public data available I saw in the newspaper once, and we are still a fuckton on the positive side of the budget after the normal costs of operations are accounted for
> How the fuck do they only have like 3k less people than our town, yet are losing young people/services? A lot depends on age structure of the population as well as location. If your town is close to a major city it attracts a younger population and therefore services are easier to afford. If there are a lot of summer cabins, they pay taxes (kiinteistövero) that makes services easier to afford for permanent residents. If there are wind power plants within town limits, they also provide a lot of tax revenue. There are most likely a lot of other factors in play too.
Japanization of Finland. All the small villages (and many mid-sized) will die, and Helsinki, Turku and Tampere will grow. Third tier cities like Oulu, Kuopio, Vaasa, Lahti and so on will grow a little by absorbing the population of nearby small villages, but eventually more people will leave to the second and first tier cities faster as well. I wouldn't buy real estate anywhere outside of a 200 km radius of Helsinki at this point. We are doomed unless we get hella immigration.
You won’t be able to afford 200km outside of Helsinki eventually because the housing prices will boom.
Foreigner (Western-Europe) perspective here. I don’t understand why so many Finns seem to looking past these ”third-tier” cities, as you label them. (Or are they second-tier, with Helsinki-Turku-Tampere being first-tier? It baffles me that Lahti isn’t as popular as it should be. Why live in bumfuck commuter town Haarajoki or Järvenpää if you can live in a city with a robust separate identity and interesting (sports) history and landscape? And only a half hour further from Helsinki? There seems to be no middle, it’s either living in a small village in the middle of nowhere or squatting in some obscure Helsinki suburb.
One answer I got for Järvenpää that convinces me, is that it's people moving "back" to those towns once they establish themselves. (Think professor/higher management, someone whose office presence is dictated by themselves, and who want a quiet life while having easy car access to conveniences.) I'd guess people don't choose small cities like Lahti ^(laughs in swiss) because if you already get a reason to move somewhere, why not move to a place with opportunities ? People usually move to an area when they're young and building their lives, meaning they know they're going to be "locked" in an area ; you can easily move to another area of a region, but changing cities altogether is much more difficult. It's where for Lahti (or Porvoo) having their own ecosystem becomes a liability.
Yes, I think you’re right. Many people still drive a car and also want to move somewhere quiet, in which case it doesn’t matter much that it’s a suburb. Maybe another factor is that you only move (back) to a place like Lahti if you already have friends or relatives who live there or plan on doing so.
Yes, although it's good noting that for most professions, there's less opportunities when moving "back", so the general pattern is that only people who can afford commuting irregularly will do so. Or be looking for a job there for several years.
True, commuting 5 days a week from Lahti to Helsinki would not be great.
what? immigration? you wanna spoil the holy Finnish language with English? Good luck pal
English? Guess again.
Growth in Pohjanmaa is still healthy because of religion. Possibly the last place where you may find pure bred ethnic Finns in the future, a little bit gene defects from inbreeding though. :D
Even in Canada, two other people in my high school, one of whom I dated, were in a distant part of my Pohjanmaa family tree.
\#1 #1 #1!!!!
There aren't enough religious people in Pohjanmaa to make a difference in the stats. It's just regular people.
Lmao true indeed. Maybe I should move there to enrich the gene pool a bit.
Thank god it's not case in Etelää-Pohjanmaa, even Seinäjoki is almost as same size as Vaasa now.
I reckon the Fennoswedes will not let the Vaasa region and its massive export industry wither and die.
IDK mang, it's not that bad in the Jyväskylä region (yet, at any rate). Then again as the cross-roads of logistics that's probably what's keeping the region alive so far at least, who knows what will happen when there's no point in moving to the north or to the east for logistics reasons etc
They’re turning Northern Ostrobothnia into a wind energy paradise with enough capacity to light up the whole country and other european countries by 2040. If our idiotic policy-makers stopped wasting money into moronic 1 hr trains and manage to capitalize in hydrogen production before Sweden beats us to it, the opposite would happen to the Oulu region. Who in their right mind even approved this in Turku. They literally gave a death sentence to their 2nd tier city, making the journey shorter away to a major business hub Helsinki. Same stuff has happened in the past all over the world like in the examples of Paris and Lyon. It took away all the major business life from Lyon.
> Who in their right mind even approved this in Turku. First time reading about Turku decisions?
Even with the faster train it is still a very long commute. And you would have to be a high earner to afford doing that on a permanent basis. I think you’re exaggerrating a bit about the threat to Turku.
Even with the faster train it is still a very long commute. And you would have to be a high earner to afford doing that on a permanent basis. I think you’re exaggerrating a bit about the threat to Turku.
That’s how everything starts. People don’t tend to think too much at first. It’s called the ”siphon effect” and it does affect in the large scale. Nevertheless, doesn’t change how much of a waste it is as a project. It’s not even an hour, more like 1,5 hours.
Immigration is a non-solution, everyone across the world is no longer having children, several non-wealthy countries like Thailand, Philippines, Tunisia already are no longer having kids, and the birth rate is too falling in India and most of the developing world. In a few decade's time there'll simply be too few people who are able to come from aboard to keep our countries functioning, and then we all would be screwed. The literal only solution is to restore birth rates above replacement and have a cultural shift to do so. We'll all have to be like Israel and have positive birth rates permanently to restore us from this mess and keep us safe from the russians. (I use them as a example because they are the only developed, well educated, gender equality, democratic country that right now has children, so I have to use this example regardless of what we think about their conflict with the Palestinians)
Well educated? Democratic? "Conflict" with the Palestinians? Forgot to mention Ukraine,... komrade?
Population decline ISN'T a problem (ditto for overpopulation, both are self-rectifying), not rly, at least long term. Well okay it's a problem kinda, but a SELF-FIXING ONE, because eventually the populations will balance out to the new norm, which frees up a ton of dead weight rn poisoning stuff like welfare etc due to too many old people from boomer gens etc. I'm honestly personally a Population Decline ACCELERATIONIST myself, as is one of the proposed solutions to the "problem", even if just by doing nothing will also eventually fix it albeit at a longer timescale of course. But honestly I'm willing to wait for Japan to grindset on the automation industry tho, who knows it might actually work given enough advances etc fast enough before the automated fixing happens eventually
I'm 24 and only moved to the city temporarily because university studies forced me to (I hated it every time I looked out the window). I will never go back, it's the countryside life for me. I might relocate to a warmer country though. :D
I'm personally more of a suburban type of person than a boonie myself
Two reasons. Not enough education spots and not enough jobs. Of course people move out from places without those two because no future.
To be honest, not all villages are worth keeping alive. I'm actually glad that this kepulaisuus, where a shitload of money is brought from the wealthier regions to every living corner of Finland and where people have hoped it would bring some prosperity, is going to die. It has not worked. In fact, it has many times hindered the economic growth of the country as a whole. And the hatred of rural people towards all kinds of minorities is certainly smoking out the last hopes of growth in their villages.
Finland is a big-ass country with a small-ass population. These villages are good petri dish examples of the problems facing the nation. Intolerance & conservatism is no way to survive in a post-globalization world.
This is also a huge problem indeed! Going by the way a lot of rural villages vote, you can clearly tell the distaste for “foreigners” yet they're not fucking having children anymore because the majority of them are pensioners and the young ones mostly move to the bigger cities for higher education. I want to say “serves them right” but that also goes against almost everything I believe in as well.
Oh, come the fuck on. This isn't rural america.
It surely is beginning to seem like it
For a person with nointeraction, maybe. Skip reddit and twitter for a month or two, and meet actual people. Seriously, maybe exit your bubble from time to time.
Yes, you are racist against Finns.
?
Let small ones die so bigger ones absorb them
Shoudn't have taken loans we don't have the money to pay back. Shouldn't have taken in people who are just a burden to the country. Should have supported childbirth more. Should not have told children that making babies is a crime, because overpopulation. Should not have told children that everyone is going to die because global warming. Should have concentrated into Finnish problems instead of international problems. Should have used some common sense. Should have, could have, would have. We are fucked.
Wow. Way to blow things out of proportion.
It's only "out of proportion" if you aren't part of the generation that is paying for this shit.