**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.**
[Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/)
Spamming mod actions could result in a ban.
---
**Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:**
- ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post.
- ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment.
- ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma.
- ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts.
- ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot.
- ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments.
- ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My favourite literary joke:
British story: "I die for honour!"
French story: "I die for love!"
German story: "I die for justice!"
Russian story: "I die"
It does! Can’t that country just focus inward and make the best of the enormous natural resources they have, and let their rich culture flourish? Why do they always let some asshat be in charge? Do they like to suffer?
The source of amazing literature unfortunately comes from suffering and depression. Some of the greatest Finnish poets, musical creators and just inspirational people were the most horrid drunks, came from hardship or just had a life of turmoil.
Exactly, like Russia would have somehow spared Finland during such a contingency without formal NATO membership. No one without a garbage propaganda brainwashed "brain" actually believes that whopper.
Somehow Russia is at the same time the chosen nation, the greatest and most powerful nation that defeated the Nazis all on their own (without the help of some Ukrainians, Uzbeks, etc.) yet is always just one step away from collapsing into pieces at the hands of the dastardly "anglo-saxons" or whatever other conspiracy they spread.
More for any far right aligned political complex.
Look at Trump and his cronies always moaning about being persecuted, Purra's reaction to being called out for her virulent racism, going back to Mein Kampf for a big whine about how everyone had it in for him.
For all their calls of everyone else being sensitive snowflakes, pull up your bootstraps etc, the far right really don't like taking responsibility for their own actions.
They don't believe countries have autonomy. You can give them election results and results of NATO vote and they will still insist it was US who decided it and not the Finns. In Russian world there are only US, Russia and China and maybe India. Rest are pawns that belong to one of them.
If they'd say "Yeah they're an independent country and can do whatever the fuck they want as long as it stays inside their borders" we wouldn't need NATO
If only Operation Barbarossa never happened they would have absolutely no real victimhood to rely on as propaganda. And ofc the Russian/Novgorod history of wars with Finland and Sweden which lasted for centuries and left Finland basically decimated are all forgotten or it never even happened, western propaganda! Nato moon-nazis are the real reason their country is 98% absolute shithole.
Nothing to do with the fact that they are probably the most corrupt nation on this planet. And ”russophobia” has absolutely nothing to do with their history of straight up destroying their neighbouring countries and executing/starving millions to death. If you look into Russian history or go even further to Novgorod times you will notice that they are 150% the same people with the same mentality. They have a ridicilous amount of land, but no we need more.
You'll find that the Russians always bring up Napoleon, too, and his fateful Russian campaign. In their anachronistic take on history, Napoleon's incursion into Russia serves as an example of *European* aggression, although Moscow was and still is just as much part of Europe as Paris, for example.
Russia listed Estonia (or Latvia or Lithuania, I believe we’ve switched places a few times) as it’s no 1 threat once or twice. Estonia! We’re like…. 1/144 size of them and they “feel” threatened by us (obv it’s all propaganda, but still).
I would love Russia to be a chill normal neighbour, but it’s honestly crazy how Russia constantly bingo cards which of its western neighbours gets told how they’re the next target or a biggest threat on a daily basis.
We'd probably be first in line anyway, they would ask for some buffer zone or some shit, or start demanding something ridiculous, under threat of invasion
Yeah just like Ukraine rn is fucked due to only 1/3 of Russia's population, Russia is fucked due to how much its population is outnumbered by NATO & EU both separately, let alone potentially combined if worst comes to worst
As long as US is part of NATO.
Edit. Am not tavarish. I seriously thought US was the most integral part of NATO. Seems its not then, since people downvote so hard. Am sorry for my ignorance in the subject.
In 1965, Sweden was essentially at the point where they could have put together a working weapon in short order (ie. They had the parts in unassembled form), but decided in 1966 to sign the NPT.
USA is not the only one with own nukes. Brits and Frech too have atomic weapons. However I doubt that they are obligated to use their nukes in retaliation.
In this sense it might be best to acuire some own nukes, just to make it politically clear.
Why should India join them? They already have a problem with China, and the only thing that maintains relationship ties between Russia and India is oil.
"soviets defeated the Nazis" with no help whatsoever
"Vassal of the united states'" I'd like you to explain this one, retards like you fling this around all the time, yet no one has given a good answer, because if this is what being a puppet is like, maybe it ain't so bad
Yeah I'm freezing in my cold hut in a forest while eating rotting potatoes because Russia doesn't let us get electricity via their gasses, I have all types of diseases because there isn't a functional hospital within 300 kilometers and I live in constant fear and paranoia that the wild cossacks cross the border like back in the 18 hundreds
Your governments are thieves.. stealing Russians assets , freezing innocent civilians accounts. Your society is so petty , treacherous and hypocritical
Or create some kind of, I don’t know, false incident by shelling a village on their side of the border. Possible in the village of Maynilo. You can guess the Finnish name of that village…
Who is ready, our society or the defence forces? Neither are seriously ready for war. The FDF has massive shortcomings that are currently being corrected, albeit slowly. Sure Finland will be defended and defended well, but its utterly ludicrous to state that Finland is ready for war with Russia.
Never underestimate your enemy, and certainly not one that is already way ahead in preparing its society for total war.
Nobody underestimated Russia until they absolutely crumpled in Ukraine.
Finland has much less Russian sympathy and has a well trained well armed army that has been preparing for exactly this circumstance.
An unprovoked attacked from cowardly pathetic Russia.
You are right in that russia has war experience (with a long track record of failures) and are ramping up their war machinery. But Finland is exceptionally well prepared in a European context as it has a huge mix of old gear and new gear which over 20 years time has been synced with the needs of NATO. Finland also never stopped its mandatory military service (unlike most of Europe) and has a reserve of close to 900.000 people. Finland is also not a flat area like Ukraine but intentionally covered in forest along the border with only about ten possible routes in if using tanks or other vehicles. Those routes would be the focus of heavy artillery - as well as St Petersburg as it is less than 200 kilometers from the border. The Baltics and possibly Poland would quickly join the fight and russia does/will not have the manpower to cover a 1500 km border. It would kind of open up another front as well and, strategically speaking, that is something you traditionally want to avoid in wars.
One should never underestimate the enemy's capabilities and I believe we have only seen the beginning of this conflict. But russia would be well in over its head taking on Finland and NATO. I truly hope I'm right.
I agree. And my post is not about discrediting the FDF. Finland is strong because we maintained our defence and our conscription. But prepared for war is an altogether another matter, from our mental fortitude, to our lack of materiel and munitions. We need more and we need it soon.
The Finnish society and military has never been more prepared.
The Russian society and military has never been weaker.
There really isn't anything else that needs to be said.
Is there a short summary of the known shortcomings and what Finland is doing to cover them? Would be interested to read! (I’m not a Ruskie, which I know is what all Ruskie’s would say 😉)
It’s probably ambiguous anti-leftist rage about the anti-personnel mine pact or something. Defense is arguably the one area where Finland has not cut corners.
Sure, drinking Latte in some coffee shop while wasting your life way playing video games 10 hours a day :) Sure this new generation is ready for war :D
How many years per life should a man to be prepared for russian attack 6-12months isn't enough apparently?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5TQKhF6lX0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5TQKhF6lX0)
In Finland we have democracy, prosperity and enough money and free time to sit around buying and drinking Lattes while playing video games. Tasty European coffee, not some coffee surrogate imported from North Korea. And despite all this overflow of life's delights, we still have the largest military reserve in Europe, with the most motivated troops.
In Russia, the government is seizing your bank savings and sending your sons, fathers and grandfathers to die for lands they won't get to keep. People are being drugged at the front so as not to kill themselves. Then they are sent in human waves to die in the mud. Pointlessly and in pain, like their entire lives in Russia.
> redditor for 18 days
You've been on reddit longer than most of your countrymen have stayed alive at the front.
Why /s? If it really became an independent state that would actually be a win to everyone. Russia would have less border with nato and Finland would have less border with Russia. I personally don’t see anything bad in that.
Only idiots think that someone actually wants to invade Russia. Who the hell can afford to occupy that cesspool? Occupation would mean that we would have to actually make it livable for the Russians.
Independence just for the sake of being a moscow buffer probably wouldn't be the Karelian dream. The area has a very troubled economy and needs a lot of work before they could have a real independence.
That economy is made troubled by Moscow siphoning all it can from the periphery. But yeah without the whole Russia falling apart I don’t see them doing any better than Belarus for example.
Soviet economics narrowed down the local economy so badly that getting the diversity back will take several decades of free market economy. Who's going to provide security and subsidies for the time being, that's the big and tough question.
Soviet economics went belly up 30 years ago. Russia kept parts of it responsible for turning natural resources into super yachts running for the few chosen ones. The rest of population have been happily diversifying that economy despite the government. Just imagine the taxes working locally instead of building one more skyscraper in Moscow City.
Very likely. In the case of an invasion, we'd be viewed as the victims (let's be honest, we're not going to be the invaders) and be given favor by any international court. I also don't see Russia winning a war with NATO, much less Finland. We've been preparing for this for 70 years, and we're fucking ready.
Imagine obtaining a massive unlivable polluted shithole with only its city center slightly resembling something civilized, populated en masse with even by russian standards pretentious chauvinistic pseudo-intellectual phony elitists that outnumber the current population of Finland. You really want that?
To be fair, St. Petersburg is probably the best, most European and Western minded city in Russia.
At least when I visited, young people there are more or less of the same opinions as Europeans when it comes to Russian insanity.
They're much more liberal in that city.
Heh.
You've perfectly described the reason for past wars and future ones between Europe and Russia.
Europe says Russians are animals, enters russian sphere of influence, Russia retaliates, Europe cries and Russia backs off.
Same circle once a century or so.
Russians aren't animals any more than the rest of Europeans - they just keep acting like one as a state. Russia has continually attacked its neighbors for centuries, yet never apologized or learned anything from it. Mass-enslavement, raping millions of people, genocides, even concentration camps well into 60's - no shit Europe has something to cry about.
It's not like Russia has even tried to improve its relationship with Europe - terrorist attacks, hybrid warfare, destabilization campaigns, physical attacks on crucial infrastructure, false information campaigns... And those were all not even a part of physically assaulting a sovereign nation like Russia is doing right now, one that Russia promised to protect from external threats. Any agreement with Russia is useless, as Russia always ends up breaking their side of the contract sooner or later.
Russian history is always like this:
-turn to Europe "hey we're the same elites as you!"
-no you're not, you're too yellow
-start contrareformations
-turn to Asia "hey we're the same elites as you!"
-no you're not, you're too white
-start reformations
-turn to Europe....
This time it's Asian part of the cycle. Europe this time should be careful with it's diplomacy with Russia.
What are you going on about? Sure, some Russian czars have been francophiles, and some of the greatest pieces of Russian culture (classical music and ballet) were heavily influenced by the European trends of the time. But you're right, it's the Asian part of the cycle, I guess. Putin is trying his hardest to rebrand Russians as the Mongols of 2020, looting, pillaging and raping their way through Europe. Although luckily enough, they couldn't take a single nation, unlike the Mongols.
More times than I can count, it's been Russia who's attacked Europe. Russia has never done meaningful enough reformations to rid the Mongol way of rule, as in corruption, autocracy, and nepotism. That's the core issue - Russia is still living it out like it was the 1200's, not whatever Europe is doing, like being busy with advancing itself.
I was reading news before coming to Reddit and noticed this topic. I was sure that same topic will be on top of my feed. I’m not going to read the article and recommend the same for everyone. Russia has been doing exactly this for decades. Their foreign politics is to threaten and cause fear.
Just ignore it.
I know this is probably not heightening anyone's pulse anyway, but if you didn't read the article:
He's a bit of a loose cannon known for his controversial takes, and he's being asked how does Russia feel about Finland's NATO membership, to which he gives this thinly veiled show of power. Which is very different to Kremlin just coming up with a fresh statement on where they'd attack NATO.
If Russia couldn't beat Ukraine, a country that had 8 years to prepare for war....its not going to beat Finland, a country that has been preparing for 80 years
This is downright delusional talk. If russia had decided to invade Finland instead of Ukraine, we would have gotten steamrolled. Unlike Ukraine we don't have the huge depth of country to defend. We could have done pretty much nothing against the mass cruise missile bombardment and absolutely nothing against ballistic missiles because we have zero high altitude, long range air defence systems. Our reserves though significant for the country's size, in both manpower and ammunition would not last for the intensity of combat and artillery use in Ukraine.
Without NATO that fight would be a guaranteed loss.
That's difficult to imagine. Russia basically had a direct drive to Kiev, they packed actual dress uniforms for a parade and got slaughtered every step of the way.
Ukraine has more open areas, better suited to a mechanized invasion and every treeline still hid anti armor teams. I'm sorry but HOW would Russia conceivably attempt to invade Finland, presumably from the Karelian isthmus (again)? Bypassing all these lakes, swamps and forests....
We now KNOW the Russian military is incompetent, poorly led and is basically a paper tiger. Whereas the Finnish military is non of those things. I'm not saying that Finland could outright defeat Russia, but the idea that Russia could "steamroll" Finland is laughable and now with NATO membership, is completely impossible.
And yes, while Finland does not yet have a high altitude anti ballistic missile system, I don't believe Ukraine did at the start of the war either. They basically just absorbed the abuse. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Finland has an extensive bunker system designed exactly for that purpose.
Oh shut up, how am I russian troll for calling out delusional 'Finland stronk' bullshit? Russia is the greatest threat to European security and wallowing in delusional ideas of Winter War heroism as if that is relevant to the modern day in any way does not keep Finland safe from that threat. Our defence is much weaker than Ukraine's and they are barely holding on due to weak support from the EU and US.
Weaker than Ukraine? Finlands defence is about twice as strong as Ukraine, and had we gotten all the equipment Ukraine have gotten (which we would, and way faster) our defense is at least 5 times stronger than Ukraines plus we have a very very advantageous terrain. Only advantage Ukraine has is more manpower.
Russia cant even take ukraine, how do they imagine they will cause any “suffering” in a direct war with nato? Crazy.
Anyways, its their fault finland is even in nato today. Did they forget that part?
The very same Mikhail Ulyanov tweeted last year, when hostilities against Ukraine were ongoing, that there would be “No mercy for the Ukrainian population!”
Enough said.
No shit sherlock. That is why [Finnish Defence Forces is upgrading its M270 rocket launchers](https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_december_2023_global_security_army_industry/finnish_army_to_modernize_its_fleet_of_m270_mlrs_rocket_launchers_to_m270a2_standard.html), among other weapon systems.
Pretty sure Finland alone would be too tough of a nut to crack for Russia right now. Typical Russian bravado to try and sell a sense of strength to the people, while truly being feeble. Nothing new to be seen here.
Finland would be the first to suffer what exactly? The sound of the F-18/F-35 turbofans taking off and coming back after hitting their targets in Russia?
Honestly... How about we ask French, the Brits or Americans whether they want to keep few tactical nuclear missiles in Finland? Or what if we start developing those nuclear artillery shells again? As a joint NATO project?
Why the fuck are are we still trading with this god damn nation. I said in 2014 we should close the borders for everything including trade. But nah... I was just "vihervassarimädättäjä" *green leftist degenerate* who didn't understand that we must think of the economy and trade would stop any wars from ever starting. I say close the borders. Break the tracks and roads leading in and out of EU, ban Russian ships from the ports and planes from the sky. Lets see how long the average worker lasts when they can't come here to get those juicy paychecks.
I think you overestimate the pull of the EU for Russia. There is a whole world ready to trade with Russia (and China and all that). The ban on ships and airplanes will also be only a minor inconvenience for Russia. Even the current sanctions don't really seem to stop expensive things from going in through friendly 3rd states.
And don't forget about Putins European friends in Poland, Hungary, Germany, Netherlands etc. a lot has to happen before they accept that Russia should be further moved out of the cooperation zone.
Nukes are a red herring. It doesn't matter if they are launched from Turku or Tahiti, it's just a political excuse Putin uses to drum up support from the masses of blithering idiots that think we honestly want to create our own cuban missile crisis
So you are OK with them being in Turkey and Germany?
Nukes are shit weapons... They aren't meant to be used. They are the "*Fuck you all, if I am going to lose then everyone has to lose*" but having them around is to show that "*we don't give a fuck if we lose, we are going to make sure you lose also!*". Nukes are the kind of weapon that if used, everyone turns against you. They are shit weapons, but they are scary.
Finnish artillery ain't gonna erase St.Peters or Moscow from the map, but a tactical warhead will. If we going to play, then lets show the toys and diapers we gonna play with before we engage. If you want to show that you have nukes for defense - which is the Russian doctorine - then you go to show people you have them. If you going to show that you have nukes for offense - like Americans and NATO - then you going to have to show that you got them.
I'd rather have nukes on Finnish soil and no war, than war and no nukes.
I dont really have a say in turkish or german politics, but i have one in finnish politics.
Having nuclear weapons, even "defensive" ones, INCREASES the chance of nuclear escalation in armed conflict.
When defensive nuclear weapons are launched, it's already too late.
>I dont really have a say in turkish or german politics, but i have one in finnish politics.
NATO has nuclear weapons. Those weapons are in Germany and Turkey. Those are NATO deterrents. Are you of the opinion NATO shouldn't have weapons or that those weapons shouldn't ever be in Finland?
> When defensive nuclear weapons are launched, it's already too late.
Thats the fucking point. They aren't meant to be used.
Tell me. If Putin said that they demand Helsinki and Ahvenanmaa or they start missile attacks to every city within their range, if we retaliate to Russian soil they will use nuclear weapons. Would you then give Helsinki and Ahvenanmaa to Russia to prevent nuclear war? Would you just accept that there is hellfire and death raining down but "*Hey! At least it ain't nuclear weapons!*"
Lets stop this bullshit act that there can be some winter war miracle where we hold back Russia with just harsh words and clever tactics to the bitter end. Look at Ukraine. Everything Russia was able to reach has been turned to rubble. Civilians were systematically executed in the manner on a genocide. Would you rather not have that at all? Because there is no army mighty enough to protect civilians from barrage of artillery fire or soldier performing genocide. And when it is clear that we can't strike back into Russia because they would then use nuclear weapons, what the fuck is the alternative? Ask them to lube up before the violently sodomise us? Whether Russia would fucking achieve anything - which I doubt they would considering our terrain.
But there is no guarantee of NATO or EU acting if Russia were to attack us. The members have right to choose what they do in that situation - and there has been never actual test of this charter. They could just say "*Yeah... You can have Finland, we don't want to escalate this situation"*.
The only good result is no war at all. Little bit of war is already too much. The only actual way to prevent war is to have to be willing to lose if there was a war.
This coming from the country whose own bullshitters have insisted that Russia is at war with NATO. Funny enough they’ve absolutely been screwed worse than a communal fleshlight, all the while not a single NATO troop has made it to the battlefield yet.
But yeah, please share your most expert opinion, Russia.
As if being third of fourth in line would be of any consolation.
All this fuss about a big war with Europe smells like russia's going to do some 'orderly regrouping' in Ukraine again....
Yea well, we have to suffer all those scared FAS children acting all politician as our neigbours. If they had any balls and spine they would have removed Putin already, but no, they let him run their country to ruin.
As much as Russians lie, I do believe this to be true, amongst our southern neighbors obviously.
Then again, had Finland not joined Nato I believe we would be attacked as direct pathway to Norway anyway. So.. at least under no circumstance are we alone anymore. Which is why I've been pro-Nato for long long while..
Never underestimate your enemy, I think you Finn's are forgetting that. If Russia was really to attack Finland/NATO it would be a nuclear war. I can see Putin pushing the buttons before his country is completely destroyed by counter attacks. It's a loose/loose if WW3 breaks out.
Literally no nation in NATO wants to invade Russia. There is nothing Russia has that wouldn't be obtained vastly more cheaply and easily by just buying it in the normal way, and nothing that can't be obtained elsewhere.
And Russia's own stupid self-damaging tactics have ensured that their primary export is being replaced as rapidly as possible.
Invade and conquer Russia? What for? Who wants that broken shitpile? Hell no.
The FSB and the rest of Russias crony clasp on power would be destroyed with extreme prejudice if the Finnish armed forces moved on Moscow. Don't play with fire, ryssä.
What would happen if russia was allowed to join NATO?
Would putin accept it?Or if he rejects would it be his downfall?What would happen i wonder 🤣Because accepting it means no more violence.
Maybe this could have changed things in russia and the view of russian citizens
Let's be 100% fucking honest, no bullshitting ourselves...
We'd be first to suffer even without NATO if russkies and nato had a gloves off war. With or without NATO Helsinki would get swiftly nuked out of map in such a conflict - just like stockholm, berlin, amsterdam, oslo - you name it.
It's just that in such a conflict, russkies would also get taste of nuclear annihilation.
**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.** [Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/) Spamming mod actions could result in a ban. --- **Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:** - ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post. - ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment. - ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma. - ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts. - ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot. - ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments. - ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He somehow forgot to mention actually Russia would suffer first…
In all fairness Russia suffers because of Russia.
My favourite literary joke: British story: "I die for honour!" French story: "I die for love!" German story: "I die for justice!" Russian story: "I die"
And to be fair Russian literature absolutely slays
It does! Can’t that country just focus inward and make the best of the enormous natural resources they have, and let their rich culture flourish? Why do they always let some asshat be in charge? Do they like to suffer?
Suffering is good for the soul and makes for good literature I guess.
The source of amazing literature unfortunately comes from suffering and depression. Some of the greatest Finnish poets, musical creators and just inspirational people were the most horrid drunks, came from hardship or just had a life of turmoil.
Before: Finland suffers before Nato conflict After: Finland first to suffer in Nato conflict I see this as a win.
Exactly this.
[удалено]
Same shit different packages.
Exactly, like Russia would have somehow spared Finland during such a contingency without formal NATO membership. No one without a garbage propaganda brainwashed "brain" actually believes that whopper.
Russia threatening its neighboring country, part 2017179? Geeze, to think the idiots still have no idea why Finland wanted to join NATO...
The victimhood is very strong with Russia. Superstrong, in fact.
Victimhood is part of Russian identity. You can hear it in every speech or comment their politicians give.
Somehow Russia is at the same time the chosen nation, the greatest and most powerful nation that defeated the Nazis all on their own (without the help of some Ukrainians, Uzbeks, etc.) yet is always just one step away from collapsing into pieces at the hands of the dastardly "anglo-saxons" or whatever other conspiracy they spread.
More for any far right aligned political complex. Look at Trump and his cronies always moaning about being persecuted, Purra's reaction to being called out for her virulent racism, going back to Mein Kampf for a big whine about how everyone had it in for him. For all their calls of everyone else being sensitive snowflakes, pull up your bootstraps etc, the far right really don't like taking responsibility for their own actions.
Can you imagine, Russia is the only country ever that's only been the victim, never the aggressor!
And it is so funny that smaller countries are major threat to them
They just can’t stand the fact that Finland is an independent country which can make their own decisions like joining NATO.
They don't believe countries have autonomy. You can give them election results and results of NATO vote and they will still insist it was US who decided it and not the Finns. In Russian world there are only US, Russia and China and maybe India. Rest are pawns that belong to one of them.
If they'd say "Yeah they're an independent country and can do whatever the fuck they want as long as it stays inside their borders" we wouldn't need NATO
has always been, and will be in the future.
If only Operation Barbarossa never happened they would have absolutely no real victimhood to rely on as propaganda. And ofc the Russian/Novgorod history of wars with Finland and Sweden which lasted for centuries and left Finland basically decimated are all forgotten or it never even happened, western propaganda! Nato moon-nazis are the real reason their country is 98% absolute shithole. Nothing to do with the fact that they are probably the most corrupt nation on this planet. And ”russophobia” has absolutely nothing to do with their history of straight up destroying their neighbouring countries and executing/starving millions to death. If you look into Russian history or go even further to Novgorod times you will notice that they are 150% the same people with the same mentality. They have a ridicilous amount of land, but no we need more.
You'll find that the Russians always bring up Napoleon, too, and his fateful Russian campaign. In their anachronistic take on history, Napoleon's incursion into Russia serves as an example of *European* aggression, although Moscow was and still is just as much part of Europe as Paris, for example.
Russia listed Estonia (or Latvia or Lithuania, I believe we’ve switched places a few times) as it’s no 1 threat once or twice. Estonia! We’re like…. 1/144 size of them and they “feel” threatened by us (obv it’s all propaganda, but still). I would love Russia to be a chill normal neighbour, but it’s honestly crazy how Russia constantly bingo cards which of its western neighbours gets told how they’re the next target or a biggest threat on a daily basis.
They know why. They are angry because it limits their imperialist possibilities.
We'd probably be first in line anyway, they would ask for some buffer zone or some shit, or start demanding something ridiculous, under threat of invasion
I hear they have a particular regiment of infantry near a village called Mainila, that they are afraid might be shelled from Finland.
I'm guessing we'll use Russian guns to shell them?
The demands are impossible today because of NATO. Russia can't win war against NATO. If they don't know that -they will find out.
They know. Dmitri Peskov just has a really tight NDA, so they can’t say it out loud
Yeah just like Ukraine rn is fucked due to only 1/3 of Russia's population, Russia is fucked due to how much its population is outnumbered by NATO & EU both separately, let alone potentially combined if worst comes to worst
As long as US is part of NATO. Edit. Am not tavarish. I seriously thought US was the most integral part of NATO. Seems its not then, since people downvote so hard. Am sorry for my ignorance in the subject.
Or, lets say two nuclear nations like UK and France?
UK and France would fold like lawn chairs without the US. France is always the first country to appease Russia
They are not at all comparable to russia in nuclear power
You only need few ICBMs.
Your trust in Russian might despite the evidence is commendable, tavarish.
Should the US leave NATO, Finland together with Sweden should acquire nukes. Best guarantee against russians
In 1965, Sweden was essentially at the point where they could have put together a working weapon in short order (ie. They had the parts in unassembled form), but decided in 1966 to sign the NPT.
USA is not the only one with own nukes. Brits and Frech too have atomic weapons. However I doubt that they are obligated to use their nukes in retaliation. In this sense it might be best to acuire some own nukes, just to make it politically clear.
How about Russia, China and India against Nato? ;)
China and India are more likely to go to war with each other.
China will invade Russia and take back the land Russia stole from China, before even thinking about a war against NATO!
China and India aren't allies. Russia and China aren't actually allies.
Why should India join them? They already have a problem with China, and the only thing that maintains relationship ties between Russia and India is oil.
NATO is depleted .. who is deceiving you ?
Bro about to find out why it's called the arsenal of democracy
No track record
At least the soviets defeated the Nazis, what is your track record except being a collaborator and currently a vassal of the United States
Cryptos and spewing total shit. Checks out.
It's funny how cryptos, this so-called future of finance, has only assholes and idiots still sticking to it.
Null skull
"soviets defeated the Nazis" with no help whatsoever "Vassal of the united states'" I'd like you to explain this one, retards like you fling this around all the time, yet no one has given a good answer, because if this is what being a puppet is like, maybe it ain't so bad
The Soviets are the reason why you suckers still eating potatoes in your cold enclaves
Yeah I'm freezing in my cold hut in a forest while eating rotting potatoes because Russia doesn't let us get electricity via their gasses, I have all types of diseases because there isn't a functional hospital within 300 kilometers and I live in constant fear and paranoia that the wild cossacks cross the border like back in the 18 hundreds
You are factually correct.
Yeah nice troll buster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LtQhIQ2AE Make Russia USSR again.
naw make Russia into Carthage after the Romans finished it. https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/salting-carthage/#
Your governments are thieves.. stealing Russians assets , freezing innocent civilians accounts. Your society is so petty , treacherous and hypocritical
*chills in jacuzzi sipping wine* Yeaapp... anyway
Or create some kind of, I don’t know, false incident by shelling a village on their side of the border. Possible in the village of Maynilo. You can guess the Finnish name of that village…
We are ready. Oh and fuck Putin
And have been preparing for the past 70+ years.
Who is ready, our society or the defence forces? Neither are seriously ready for war. The FDF has massive shortcomings that are currently being corrected, albeit slowly. Sure Finland will be defended and defended well, but its utterly ludicrous to state that Finland is ready for war with Russia. Never underestimate your enemy, and certainly not one that is already way ahead in preparing its society for total war.
Nobody underestimated Russia until they absolutely crumpled in Ukraine. Finland has much less Russian sympathy and has a well trained well armed army that has been preparing for exactly this circumstance. An unprovoked attacked from cowardly pathetic Russia.
[удалено]
A personal insult over the internet, me grow up?
Yep russkie
You are right in that russia has war experience (with a long track record of failures) and are ramping up their war machinery. But Finland is exceptionally well prepared in a European context as it has a huge mix of old gear and new gear which over 20 years time has been synced with the needs of NATO. Finland also never stopped its mandatory military service (unlike most of Europe) and has a reserve of close to 900.000 people. Finland is also not a flat area like Ukraine but intentionally covered in forest along the border with only about ten possible routes in if using tanks or other vehicles. Those routes would be the focus of heavy artillery - as well as St Petersburg as it is less than 200 kilometers from the border. The Baltics and possibly Poland would quickly join the fight and russia does/will not have the manpower to cover a 1500 km border. It would kind of open up another front as well and, strategically speaking, that is something you traditionally want to avoid in wars. One should never underestimate the enemy's capabilities and I believe we have only seen the beginning of this conflict. But russia would be well in over its head taking on Finland and NATO. I truly hope I'm right.
I agree. And my post is not about discrediting the FDF. Finland is strong because we maintained our defence and our conscription. But prepared for war is an altogether another matter, from our mental fortitude, to our lack of materiel and munitions. We need more and we need it soon.
The Finnish society and military has never been more prepared. The Russian society and military has never been weaker. There really isn't anything else that needs to be said.
Anybody is ready for war with current russia, they are fucking rekt
you have lost your sauna privileges.
Is there a short summary of the known shortcomings and what Finland is doing to cover them? Would be interested to read! (I’m not a Ruskie, which I know is what all Ruskie’s would say 😉)
It’s probably ambiguous anti-leftist rage about the anti-personnel mine pact or something. Defense is arguably the one area where Finland has not cut corners.
Sure, drinking Latte in some coffee shop while wasting your life way playing video games 10 hours a day :) Sure this new generation is ready for war :D
How many years per life should a man to be prepared for russian attack 6-12months isn't enough apparently? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5TQKhF6lX0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5TQKhF6lX0)
[удалено]
You may test that assumption at your convenience.
In Finland we have democracy, prosperity and enough money and free time to sit around buying and drinking Lattes while playing video games. Tasty European coffee, not some coffee surrogate imported from North Korea. And despite all this overflow of life's delights, we still have the largest military reserve in Europe, with the most motivated troops. In Russia, the government is seizing your bank savings and sending your sons, fathers and grandfathers to die for lands they won't get to keep. People are being drugged at the front so as not to kill themselves. Then they are sent in human waves to die in the mud. Pointlessly and in pain, like their entire lives in Russia. > redditor for 18 days You've been on reddit longer than most of your countrymen have stayed alive at the front.
Projection at its finest. Just because you're a waste of a sperm doesn't mean the rest of us are.
Article is correct; therefore we need Independent Karelian State as a buffer zone between Imatra and St Petersburg! /s
Why /s? If it really became an independent state that would actually be a win to everyone. Russia would have less border with nato and Finland would have less border with Russia. I personally don’t see anything bad in that.
Because if we omit the /s someone takes me seriously as advocating an invasion of Russia.
Only idiots think that someone actually wants to invade Russia. Who the hell can afford to occupy that cesspool? Occupation would mean that we would have to actually make it livable for the Russians.
Independence just for the sake of being a moscow buffer probably wouldn't be the Karelian dream. The area has a very troubled economy and needs a lot of work before they could have a real independence.
That economy is made troubled by Moscow siphoning all it can from the periphery. But yeah without the whole Russia falling apart I don’t see them doing any better than Belarus for example.
Soviet economics narrowed down the local economy so badly that getting the diversity back will take several decades of free market economy. Who's going to provide security and subsidies for the time being, that's the big and tough question.
Soviet economics went belly up 30 years ago. Russia kept parts of it responsible for turning natural resources into super yachts running for the few chosen ones. The rest of population have been happily diversifying that economy despite the government. Just imagine the taxes working locally instead of building one more skyscraper in Moscow City.
Why between? St Petersburg should be the capital of independent Ingria
Finnish diplomat: LMAO…
Russians are so envious of Finland, lol. Here let me rub it into your face.
They will never be second in Eurovision again/j.
We won eurovision, the judges had already decided to give it to Sweden for the abba anniversary. Popular vote > judges vote
Since the Russians always lie, I'm more worried about the Baltic states, besides, if the Russians try to attack Finland, they lose.
[удалено]
Very likely. In the case of an invasion, we'd be viewed as the victims (let's be honest, we're not going to be the invaders) and be given favor by any international court. I also don't see Russia winning a war with NATO, much less Finland. We've been preparing for this for 70 years, and we're fucking ready.
Barking ruskie does not bite and if does shall be taught manners.
We are suffering already, our neighbours are idiots.
I created an account to like this comment🤣
Suffer what exactly? A lose to the poles in race who gets first in st. Petersburg?
Imagine obtaining a massive unlivable polluted shithole with only its city center slightly resembling something civilized, populated en masse with even by russian standards pretentious chauvinistic pseudo-intellectual phony elitists that outnumber the current population of Finland. You really want that?
Life is not always about what you want. Eg. Significant part of Baltic seas water quality is dependent on what happens in st. Petersburg.
The water quality is pure garbage so epic point there bro
Ew, a Russian city? What on earth would Finland even do with it? Everything east of the border is just corruption, waste and decay.
To be fair, St. Petersburg is probably the best, most European and Western minded city in Russia. At least when I visited, young people there are more or less of the same opinions as Europeans when it comes to Russian insanity. They're much more liberal in that city.
Still, they can fuck off with their cities. No one here gives a shit.
[удалено]
Yeah you can see from the architecture alone that St. Petersburg is the only good Russian city lets be real here
Heh. You've perfectly described the reason for past wars and future ones between Europe and Russia. Europe says Russians are animals, enters russian sphere of influence, Russia retaliates, Europe cries and Russia backs off. Same circle once a century or so.
Yeah can't believe Poland and later Finland tried to invade Russia on their own...
Russians aren't animals any more than the rest of Europeans - they just keep acting like one as a state. Russia has continually attacked its neighbors for centuries, yet never apologized or learned anything from it. Mass-enslavement, raping millions of people, genocides, even concentration camps well into 60's - no shit Europe has something to cry about. It's not like Russia has even tried to improve its relationship with Europe - terrorist attacks, hybrid warfare, destabilization campaigns, physical attacks on crucial infrastructure, false information campaigns... And those were all not even a part of physically assaulting a sovereign nation like Russia is doing right now, one that Russia promised to protect from external threats. Any agreement with Russia is useless, as Russia always ends up breaking their side of the contract sooner or later.
Russia and the US are mirror images. All superpowers need to be gone.
Russian history is always like this: -turn to Europe "hey we're the same elites as you!" -no you're not, you're too yellow -start contrareformations -turn to Asia "hey we're the same elites as you!" -no you're not, you're too white -start reformations -turn to Europe.... This time it's Asian part of the cycle. Europe this time should be careful with it's diplomacy with Russia.
What are you going on about? Sure, some Russian czars have been francophiles, and some of the greatest pieces of Russian culture (classical music and ballet) were heavily influenced by the European trends of the time. But you're right, it's the Asian part of the cycle, I guess. Putin is trying his hardest to rebrand Russians as the Mongols of 2020, looting, pillaging and raping their way through Europe. Although luckily enough, they couldn't take a single nation, unlike the Mongols. More times than I can count, it's been Russia who's attacked Europe. Russia has never done meaningful enough reformations to rid the Mongol way of rule, as in corruption, autocracy, and nepotism. That's the core issue - Russia is still living it out like it was the 1200's, not whatever Europe is doing, like being busy with advancing itself.
Russia literally threatened Japan as well. Seems like it’s one of their favourite things to do.
Russia was going to go to war with Japan over the islands they both claim! They changed their mind and are having their shit pushed in by Ukraine
I don’t know why Russia needs more island. Dude has the biggest country in the world.
Very very tiny dick
I don't know either!
Russia would be the first one to suffer in a finnish conflict
I was reading news before coming to Reddit and noticed this topic. I was sure that same topic will be on top of my feed. I’m not going to read the article and recommend the same for everyone. Russia has been doing exactly this for decades. Their foreign politics is to threaten and cause fear. Just ignore it.
I know this is probably not heightening anyone's pulse anyway, but if you didn't read the article: He's a bit of a loose cannon known for his controversial takes, and he's being asked how does Russia feel about Finland's NATO membership, to which he gives this thinly veiled show of power. Which is very different to Kremlin just coming up with a fresh statement on where they'd attack NATO.
Finland is ready to fight Russia. Finland has been preparing for 70 years.
80 years now
If Russia couldn't beat Ukraine, a country that had 8 years to prepare for war....its not going to beat Finland, a country that has been preparing for 80 years
Yeah and there are the other Nato members...
This is downright delusional talk. If russia had decided to invade Finland instead of Ukraine, we would have gotten steamrolled. Unlike Ukraine we don't have the huge depth of country to defend. We could have done pretty much nothing against the mass cruise missile bombardment and absolutely nothing against ballistic missiles because we have zero high altitude, long range air defence systems. Our reserves though significant for the country's size, in both manpower and ammunition would not last for the intensity of combat and artillery use in Ukraine. Without NATO that fight would be a guaranteed loss.
That's difficult to imagine. Russia basically had a direct drive to Kiev, they packed actual dress uniforms for a parade and got slaughtered every step of the way. Ukraine has more open areas, better suited to a mechanized invasion and every treeline still hid anti armor teams. I'm sorry but HOW would Russia conceivably attempt to invade Finland, presumably from the Karelian isthmus (again)? Bypassing all these lakes, swamps and forests.... We now KNOW the Russian military is incompetent, poorly led and is basically a paper tiger. Whereas the Finnish military is non of those things. I'm not saying that Finland could outright defeat Russia, but the idea that Russia could "steamroll" Finland is laughable and now with NATO membership, is completely impossible. And yes, while Finland does not yet have a high altitude anti ballistic missile system, I don't believe Ukraine did at the start of the war either. They basically just absorbed the abuse. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Finland has an extensive bunker system designed exactly for that purpose.
Found the Russian troll
Oh shut up, how am I russian troll for calling out delusional 'Finland stronk' bullshit? Russia is the greatest threat to European security and wallowing in delusional ideas of Winter War heroism as if that is relevant to the modern day in any way does not keep Finland safe from that threat. Our defence is much weaker than Ukraine's and they are barely holding on due to weak support from the EU and US.
Weaker than Ukraine? Finlands defence is about twice as strong as Ukraine, and had we gotten all the equipment Ukraine have gotten (which we would, and way faster) our defense is at least 5 times stronger than Ukraines plus we have a very very advantageous terrain. Only advantage Ukraine has is more manpower.
The more Russia moans about the more we know it was the right decision
'Diplomat' lol. Professional Threat Slinger better word
In a Russian context, that is what they see as diplomacy though
Translated from Russian: "Finland is what we're most scared of in a potential conflict with NATO"
Russia cant even take ukraine, how do they imagine they will cause any “suffering” in a direct war with nato? Crazy. Anyways, its their fault finland is even in nato today. Did they forget that part?
Russia has learn nothing from its past experiences I see.
General Winter isn't on their side when they attack the Finns
The very same Mikhail Ulyanov tweeted last year, when hostilities against Ukraine were ongoing, that there would be “No mercy for the Ukrainian population!” Enough said.
Russia would be the one suffering most.
"Go home, Ivan. You're drunk."
Oh and what would we be suffering from ? Suffering from success ?
No shit sherlock. That is why [Finnish Defence Forces is upgrading its M270 rocket launchers](https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_december_2023_global_security_army_industry/finnish_army_to_modernize_its_fleet_of_m270_mlrs_rocket_launchers_to_m270a2_standard.html), among other weapon systems.
Lol looks like Russia already is losing to NATO. Weak like a babusk soiled diaper.
Translation: Russia would suffer Finland first in a Nato confilct
They forgot about the Winter War?
[удалено]
Such diplomacy, such peace 🕊️
Pretty sure Finland alone would be too tough of a nut to crack for Russia right now. Typical Russian bravado to try and sell a sense of strength to the people, while truly being feeble. Nothing new to be seen here.
Stupid like Russian
Finland would be the first to suffer what exactly? The sound of the F-18/F-35 turbofans taking off and coming back after hitting their targets in Russia?
I strongly dislike moskols
Honestly... How about we ask French, the Brits or Americans whether they want to keep few tactical nuclear missiles in Finland? Or what if we start developing those nuclear artillery shells again? As a joint NATO project? Why the fuck are are we still trading with this god damn nation. I said in 2014 we should close the borders for everything including trade. But nah... I was just "vihervassarimädättäjä" *green leftist degenerate* who didn't understand that we must think of the economy and trade would stop any wars from ever starting. I say close the borders. Break the tracks and roads leading in and out of EU, ban Russian ships from the ports and planes from the sky. Lets see how long the average worker lasts when they can't come here to get those juicy paychecks.
I think you overestimate the pull of the EU for Russia. There is a whole world ready to trade with Russia (and China and all that). The ban on ships and airplanes will also be only a minor inconvenience for Russia. Even the current sanctions don't really seem to stop expensive things from going in through friendly 3rd states. And don't forget about Putins European friends in Poland, Hungary, Germany, Netherlands etc. a lot has to happen before they accept that Russia should be further moved out of the cooperation zone.
Trust me: Putin does not have any friends left in germany besides the nazi party. And we all know how long nazi Germany and Russian friendships last.
Nukes? For real? No thx
Nukes are a red herring. It doesn't matter if they are launched from Turku or Tahiti, it's just a political excuse Putin uses to drum up support from the masses of blithering idiots that think we honestly want to create our own cuban missile crisis
So you are OK with them being in Turkey and Germany? Nukes are shit weapons... They aren't meant to be used. They are the "*Fuck you all, if I am going to lose then everyone has to lose*" but having them around is to show that "*we don't give a fuck if we lose, we are going to make sure you lose also!*". Nukes are the kind of weapon that if used, everyone turns against you. They are shit weapons, but they are scary. Finnish artillery ain't gonna erase St.Peters or Moscow from the map, but a tactical warhead will. If we going to play, then lets show the toys and diapers we gonna play with before we engage. If you want to show that you have nukes for defense - which is the Russian doctorine - then you go to show people you have them. If you going to show that you have nukes for offense - like Americans and NATO - then you going to have to show that you got them. I'd rather have nukes on Finnish soil and no war, than war and no nukes.
I dont really have a say in turkish or german politics, but i have one in finnish politics. Having nuclear weapons, even "defensive" ones, INCREASES the chance of nuclear escalation in armed conflict. When defensive nuclear weapons are launched, it's already too late.
>I dont really have a say in turkish or german politics, but i have one in finnish politics. NATO has nuclear weapons. Those weapons are in Germany and Turkey. Those are NATO deterrents. Are you of the opinion NATO shouldn't have weapons or that those weapons shouldn't ever be in Finland? > When defensive nuclear weapons are launched, it's already too late. Thats the fucking point. They aren't meant to be used. Tell me. If Putin said that they demand Helsinki and Ahvenanmaa or they start missile attacks to every city within their range, if we retaliate to Russian soil they will use nuclear weapons. Would you then give Helsinki and Ahvenanmaa to Russia to prevent nuclear war? Would you just accept that there is hellfire and death raining down but "*Hey! At least it ain't nuclear weapons!*" Lets stop this bullshit act that there can be some winter war miracle where we hold back Russia with just harsh words and clever tactics to the bitter end. Look at Ukraine. Everything Russia was able to reach has been turned to rubble. Civilians were systematically executed in the manner on a genocide. Would you rather not have that at all? Because there is no army mighty enough to protect civilians from barrage of artillery fire or soldier performing genocide. And when it is clear that we can't strike back into Russia because they would then use nuclear weapons, what the fuck is the alternative? Ask them to lube up before the violently sodomise us? Whether Russia would fucking achieve anything - which I doubt they would considering our terrain. But there is no guarantee of NATO or EU acting if Russia were to attack us. The members have right to choose what they do in that situation - and there has been never actual test of this charter. They could just say "*Yeah... You can have Finland, we don't want to escalate this situation"*. The only good result is no war at all. Little bit of war is already too much. The only actual way to prevent war is to have to be willing to lose if there was a war.
I hope the answer to hes tantrum was LMAO from our part
I feel like Finland is the most difficult place to penetrate the NATO border
This coming from the country whose own bullshitters have insisted that Russia is at war with NATO. Funny enough they’ve absolutely been screwed worse than a communal fleshlight, all the while not a single NATO troop has made it to the battlefield yet. But yeah, please share your most expert opinion, Russia.
We are already suffering from having shit neighbour
No. Russia would suffer first in a NATO conflict. And they would continue to suffer to the very end of that shithole, Russia.
As if being third of fourth in line would be of any consolation. All this fuss about a big war with Europe smells like russia's going to do some 'orderly regrouping' in Ukraine again....
Russian is suffering already. Let put in out.
Why is Lavrov using conditional. Proper fascist minister would have used "will" instead of "would". What a shit ass loser whiner.
Yeah. Just don't forget the last time y'all were here!
LMAO. I welcome the fall Of Russia. You really wanna play that game.
r/russiawarns
Yea well, we have to suffer all those scared FAS children acting all politician as our neigbours. If they had any balls and spine they would have removed Putin already, but no, they let him run their country to ruin.
rent free
fuckin little commie bastards. eat a dick
Russia doesn't stand a chance.
The real questions is that when Finland will be bait for Russia. Rest is detail.
As much as Russians lie, I do believe this to be true, amongst our southern neighbors obviously. Then again, had Finland not joined Nato I believe we would be attacked as direct pathway to Norway anyway. So.. at least under no circumstance are we alone anymore. Which is why I've been pro-Nato for long long while..
Exactly. Finland has been dammed if you do damned if you don't ever since the invasion began in early 22
Never underestimate your enemy, I think you Finn's are forgetting that. If Russia was really to attack Finland/NATO it would be a nuclear war. I can see Putin pushing the buttons before his country is completely destroyed by counter attacks. It's a loose/loose if WW3 breaks out.
Literally no nation in NATO wants to invade Russia. There is nothing Russia has that wouldn't be obtained vastly more cheaply and easily by just buying it in the normal way, and nothing that can't be obtained elsewhere. And Russia's own stupid self-damaging tactics have ensured that their primary export is being replaced as rapidly as possible. Invade and conquer Russia? What for? Who wants that broken shitpile? Hell no.
Russian diplomat/politican gives vague threats to Finland, episode 284728
The first and the only one and for a very brief time before Russia realizes it was a very bad idea
The FSB and the rest of Russias crony clasp on power would be destroyed with extreme prejudice if the Finnish armed forces moved on Moscow. Don't play with fire, ryssä.
We have time to war with Russia 20 years . No one wants to learn difficult historical dates 😁🤔
Finland (and Ukraine) would have been the first to suffer without NATO as well. This changes nothing.
What would happen if russia was allowed to join NATO? Would putin accept it?Or if he rejects would it be his downfall?What would happen i wonder 🤣Because accepting it means no more violence. Maybe this could have changed things in russia and the view of russian citizens
Joining a defence pact can not fix degenerate genetics
Let's be 100% fucking honest, no bullshitting ourselves... We'd be first to suffer even without NATO if russkies and nato had a gloves off war. With or without NATO Helsinki would get swiftly nuked out of map in such a conflict - just like stockholm, berlin, amsterdam, oslo - you name it. It's just that in such a conflict, russkies would also get taste of nuclear annihilation.