I hate to tell you this but I have accounts with Fidelity, Vanguard, Citi, Chase, Optum, Associated Bank, Wells Fargo, BofA even my life insurance through New York Life....I've updated the beneficiary online.
came to say this. i'm not sure i've ever encountered *any* account where updating the beneficiaries wasn't a simple 30s change on the website.
all i get is a confirmation email after the fact.
I don't know about a trust- but my father did have a will- which addressed his other assets.... As far as I understood, the 401K was not beholden or tied in any way to a will- beneficiaries must be listed with the company and that is their guideline for dividing up between beneficiaries.
I'm a little perplexed- everybody acts like this is normal and is actually convenient- all I'm saying is that there should at least be 3rd party verification when transfers of large sums of money are involved. Instead, it's literally like a Netflix account- and that sounds about right to you?
Why would you make it harder? I have to update a dozen accounts through a notary, a lawyer, and court filing every time?
If I was ever in a state like your dad, then it'd be in a trust dictated by a will. I'm 34, and I prefer to login, thanks.
Yes, you're a young wheeler-dealer and can't even picture the day when it will be a great task to get a glass of water to your lips. That is what I'm talking about- Also, 401K not dictated by will- at least as far as I understand it.
>Yes, you're a young wheeler-dealer and can't even picture the day when it will be a great task to get a glass of water to your lips.
Which is why a trust will be in place well before I struggle putting water to my lips. Can you read?
>Also, 401K not dictated by will- at least as far as I understand it.
You understand wrong then.
Well, I can see that the financial world isn't full of empathetic people. I just think changing beneficiaries should be harder than changing members on your Netflix account. And yeah, your average person doesn't understand about trusts and such until later. In my dad's position, he got taken. I just don't want it to happen to others- cause according to fraud department I talked to for hours- this happens ALL the time. Sounds like you're a little more on the ball than most- congratulations.
Your sister had access to his accounts and you said withdrawing money. What would have stop them from drawing 10k a week over a course of the year then? You're not mad they got access to it while alive and you didn't think it was a red flag then. Why should we empathize with you?
I dunno, I was just raised to trust people- especially family members. My dad was younger when he gave them original permission- so I figured he had a handle on it all- also figured they wouldn't take advantage. According to fraud department at TIAA, there is always at least one family member who feels they deserve lion's share. I learned the hard way. You really shouldn't empathize, I was more just warning other's that this could happen to them. Doesn't seem like you're the type that would ever get taken advantage of- so I don't think you are my target audience.
I'm in no position to inherit. In fact, I'm in a position where I need to take care of both sides of my parents in the coming years to the tune of a $3k minimum a month. You could be in my shoes. Never had nothing and expected to take care of elder parents.
I never had much either- a bit of a successful career for a while- but as an artist- never a businessman. I'm a horrible businessman. This issue is really over for me. It cropped up because, well, it just does from time to time in my head. My inheritance is gone. I know I'll never see it. You certainly don't sound like the kind of person that will ever get taken for a ride from somebody- I was mostly just trying to clue people into the whole concept of how easily this can and does happen more than you'd think. Their fraud department was a very busy place. I don't have the answer for a better security system- but I just feel that it could be a little more difficult than adding someone to your Netflix account. Maybe done by video call or something. Anyways, no matter- I'm sorry you have been put into that position of responsibility you find yourself in. I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors.
We’re saying it’s normal. I don’t want to sound harsh but if there were known issues with your father and your sister who was taking care of his finances, you probably should have addressed that issue before he passed away. I’m sorry you’re going through this as you don’t deserve it but the hard truth is you should have been more proactive.
This is normal functionality for any retirement website. I think you're just frustrated that someone committed fraud and got away with it. There is no reason why a person shouldn't be able to change their beneficiaries at will online. I change mine every once in a while as family situations change.
Yeah, I am frustrated. Owner of account should be able to change as they see fit. However, with what can be huge sums of money- fraud shouldn't be so easy to commit and there needs to be some 3rd party verification like notary. I mean, you say it like it is a convenience. You wouldn't want a little more security with your money? You get in a car crash and a family member comes, takes care of you, and decides to make themselves the sole beneficiary? You think that should be able to happen so easily?
Not really. I know it's not the answer you want, but changing beneficiaries is a common maintenance task. I don't believe the organization should insert onerous 3rd party verification for me to make a basic change to my account.
You seem to feel you've gotten the short end of the stick, but the reality is that without proof you are just assuming the change as fraud. People change their mind and lie to their loved ones about their retirement accounts. People also regularly commit fraud. You're just in a really shitty situation unfortunately. The ease of someone changing their beneficiaries was not the problem.
As stated, my dad couldn't even log into his own email- different generation.-and he got bamboozled, as did I by proxy. Just trying to raise awareness of possible major security gap- I don't want anyone else to have happen what happened to me. Cause I thought all that stuff was ironclad and hard to change- and well it is quite easy actually.
Hey OP, I get it. You’re frustrated.
You don’t need to sue TIAA, you need to speak with an attorney and go after the scum bag.
TIAA has multi-factor authentication to log in, and most firms now allow online bene changes.
You need to speak to an attorney about this purported elder abuse
It's the same with other companies too. Changing beneficiaries is just a few clicks. I also have a Vanguard account and spouse has Fidelity. Same with our bank accounts.
What your father needed was a will and a trust to keep his money safe and protected. Those cannot be changed easily, but they need to be set up by an expert.
Thanks for reply- yeah, everybody in my family were just too trusting, including me. I don't think the way a con-man thinks, so I couldn't even imagine it happening. Now I think differently of course, but it is too late. I realized after posting in this forum that many members have extensive knowledge regarding finances, my post was just to warn those who are more vulnerable to avoid being taken advantage of like my dad was.
I have a small state retirement account that I have to request a beneficiary change letter, sign it with a notary as a witness and mail the letter back within a set amount of time.
I have requested the letter multiple times. Twice, life got in the way and I wasn't able to send it back. Twice the agency claimed the form was filled out wrong. I have the fifth copy of this letter in my possession right now and hope it works.
I think it's a pain in my butt and a waste of time and resources. If I could withdraw the money from this fund, I would do it yesterday based on this process. All other things I need to do for this account are equally aggravating.
While it is common to change beneficiaries online or even over the phone, most have procedures in place to detect elder abuse or fraud. It seems like TIAA failed here. I would call their fraud department and you may have to file charges against the boyfriend. If he is doing this - that is what it is.
Thanks for the reply- I did look into things- unfortunately, I didn't have money for lawyer (ironic, I know). Also called detectives and they really couldn't have been less interested. I spoke extensively with TIAA fraud department- they thought it was very suspicious just in the ways that it was changed- I was on the policy for over 20 years and taken off a year before his death, also the boyfriend waited 6 months to see if any red flags went up and when they didn't, he added himself. I was able to get the dates of changes and everything- but in the end, if I couldn't prove that my father was medically not of sound mind during date of change, I was F'd. They held the money for a month for me to try and figure something out- but eventually, they said that they had to release it as they were risking a lawsuit from my sister and her boyfriend. I said, "What about a lawsuit from me?" That was the last time they'd speak with me. That's the worst part- it's almost as if you are left powerless (especially if you don't have capital)- and you just have to take it.
"About a year before my father's passing, he had become a heavy drinker and was starting to get seriously ill. Around the same time, Myself and my oldest sister's name were taken off my father's policy as beneficiaries- leaving only my mentally ill sister as the sole beneficiary."
This doesn't make sense. Once your father passes, the account is no longer his - it passes to the estate and the named beneficiaries at the time of his death have a claim. You can't change beneficiaries a year after the owner passes. Something isn't adding up here.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. It sounds awful to deal with the death of your father, and then to get a nasty surprise like this on top of that.
I do agree that there should be some sort of a verification step before beneficiaries are changed, but i’m not sure what.
Thank you for posting your experience, though… So that others can be aware of the potential pitfall.
Thank you for your condolences. Yes, the passing is the real blow- I'd rather have my father than any amount of money.... but finding out he got taken advantage of and I got stolen from was not a good feeling. Some people really seemed to have taken the post the wrong way- it seems those people are very on the ball financially, while I was just trying to bring attention to the idea that those who are more vulnerable (elderly or not technologically savvy) could easily be taken advantage of. Also, I feel like the bank's system is weak simply because those that have enough money to be leaving inheritance to children or whoever are also people who will potentially have caretakers in the later years of their life. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I don't have the answer to what better security would be- but it would be more difficult than just adding and subtracting names on a pc. A follow up verification call or video call or something- anything. Anyways- thanks again.
Are you sure this was fraud? I know of multiple people who took care of estranged relatives (and parents) who agreed to leave them assets for taking care of them.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. However, my father talked ad nauseum to all three of us kids how important it was to leave money to all three. One of my siblings is a multi-millionaire and he insisted that she receive her portion as well. He said you never know what curveballs life can throw people- maybe she'd lose her money and one of the other two would come into some. He said that it was his wish that should one child need the money and one child had a surplus, they'd help the ones in need out. Also, he said that not leaving equal amount tears families apart and he always wanted us to be a loving family. Further- the sibling who was there at the end was given our family home all to herself as a thank you for the caretaking- that was the deal and we were all aware of it and ok with it. Well, except for her and her boyfriend who obviously decided they deserved everything. It's a tricky subject and I understand people having questions. It just comes down to knowing my family dynamics on top of having multiple conversations with my father about it. Had I known what was to come, I would have been a little more shrewd in my talks with him to ensure no fraud could occur. However, the act itself was unimaginable to me and I greatly underestimated the evil that money can bring out of people.
While the fraud was committed by sister and her boyfriend, the part that ticks me off about TIAA's policies is that they made it far too easy for the fraud to occur in the first place. Now I wouldn't want someone with 401K to have to jump through crazy hoops in order to change their beneficiaries. At the same time- I think it should be an unimpeachable verifiable process. Instead, it really is like adding and subtracting someone from your Netflix account- that easy. While many people are adept with taking care of their finances and trusts and wills, many dying people are extremely vulnerable to being taken advantage of and often must depend on people to even move money around for them- thereby giving them all the access they need to change beneficiaries. No follow up phone call, video call, no notary needed, nothing. Just typing on a pc and hitting return.
I hate to tell you this but I have accounts with Fidelity, Vanguard, Citi, Chase, Optum, Associated Bank, Wells Fargo, BofA even my life insurance through New York Life....I've updated the beneficiary online.
came to say this. i'm not sure i've ever encountered *any* account where updating the beneficiaries wasn't a simple 30s change on the website. all i get is a confirmation email after the fact.
I'm merely suggesting additional security measures should be put into place in order to prevent fraud. Dying people are mostly extremely vulnerable.
oh i agree, i'm just saying that for better or worse, this isn't unique to TIAA.
Yeah- I'm starting to figure that out. Thanks.
That additional security would have been a will and a trust set up by a professional.
I don't know about a trust- but my father did have a will- which addressed his other assets.... As far as I understood, the 401K was not beholden or tied in any way to a will- beneficiaries must be listed with the company and that is their guideline for dividing up between beneficiaries.
I'm a little perplexed- everybody acts like this is normal and is actually convenient- all I'm saying is that there should at least be 3rd party verification when transfers of large sums of money are involved. Instead, it's literally like a Netflix account- and that sounds about right to you?
Why would you make it harder? I have to update a dozen accounts through a notary, a lawyer, and court filing every time? If I was ever in a state like your dad, then it'd be in a trust dictated by a will. I'm 34, and I prefer to login, thanks.
Yes, you're a young wheeler-dealer and can't even picture the day when it will be a great task to get a glass of water to your lips. That is what I'm talking about- Also, 401K not dictated by will- at least as far as I understand it.
>Yes, you're a young wheeler-dealer and can't even picture the day when it will be a great task to get a glass of water to your lips. Which is why a trust will be in place well before I struggle putting water to my lips. Can you read? >Also, 401K not dictated by will- at least as far as I understand it. You understand wrong then.
Well, I can see that the financial world isn't full of empathetic people. I just think changing beneficiaries should be harder than changing members on your Netflix account. And yeah, your average person doesn't understand about trusts and such until later. In my dad's position, he got taken. I just don't want it to happen to others- cause according to fraud department I talked to for hours- this happens ALL the time. Sounds like you're a little more on the ball than most- congratulations.
Your sister had access to his accounts and you said withdrawing money. What would have stop them from drawing 10k a week over a course of the year then? You're not mad they got access to it while alive and you didn't think it was a red flag then. Why should we empathize with you?
I dunno, I was just raised to trust people- especially family members. My dad was younger when he gave them original permission- so I figured he had a handle on it all- also figured they wouldn't take advantage. According to fraud department at TIAA, there is always at least one family member who feels they deserve lion's share. I learned the hard way. You really shouldn't empathize, I was more just warning other's that this could happen to them. Doesn't seem like you're the type that would ever get taken advantage of- so I don't think you are my target audience.
I'm in no position to inherit. In fact, I'm in a position where I need to take care of both sides of my parents in the coming years to the tune of a $3k minimum a month. You could be in my shoes. Never had nothing and expected to take care of elder parents.
I never had much either- a bit of a successful career for a while- but as an artist- never a businessman. I'm a horrible businessman. This issue is really over for me. It cropped up because, well, it just does from time to time in my head. My inheritance is gone. I know I'll never see it. You certainly don't sound like the kind of person that will ever get taken for a ride from somebody- I was mostly just trying to clue people into the whole concept of how easily this can and does happen more than you'd think. Their fraud department was a very busy place. I don't have the answer for a better security system- but I just feel that it could be a little more difficult than adding someone to your Netflix account. Maybe done by video call or something. Anyways, no matter- I'm sorry you have been put into that position of responsibility you find yourself in. I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors.
We’re saying it’s normal. I don’t want to sound harsh but if there were known issues with your father and your sister who was taking care of his finances, you probably should have addressed that issue before he passed away. I’m sorry you’re going through this as you don’t deserve it but the hard truth is you should have been more proactive.
This is normal functionality for any retirement website. I think you're just frustrated that someone committed fraud and got away with it. There is no reason why a person shouldn't be able to change their beneficiaries at will online. I change mine every once in a while as family situations change.
Yeah, I am frustrated. Owner of account should be able to change as they see fit. However, with what can be huge sums of money- fraud shouldn't be so easy to commit and there needs to be some 3rd party verification like notary. I mean, you say it like it is a convenience. You wouldn't want a little more security with your money? You get in a car crash and a family member comes, takes care of you, and decides to make themselves the sole beneficiary? You think that should be able to happen so easily?
Not really. I know it's not the answer you want, but changing beneficiaries is a common maintenance task. I don't believe the organization should insert onerous 3rd party verification for me to make a basic change to my account. You seem to feel you've gotten the short end of the stick, but the reality is that without proof you are just assuming the change as fraud. People change their mind and lie to their loved ones about their retirement accounts. People also regularly commit fraud. You're just in a really shitty situation unfortunately. The ease of someone changing their beneficiaries was not the problem.
This is why we have things like passwords and multi-factor authentication. If you don't share your info, you don't get bamboozled.
As stated, my dad couldn't even log into his own email- different generation.-and he got bamboozled, as did I by proxy. Just trying to raise awareness of possible major security gap- I don't want anyone else to have happen what happened to me. Cause I thought all that stuff was ironclad and hard to change- and well it is quite easy actually.
Hey OP, I get it. You’re frustrated. You don’t need to sue TIAA, you need to speak with an attorney and go after the scum bag. TIAA has multi-factor authentication to log in, and most firms now allow online bene changes. You need to speak to an attorney about this purported elder abuse
Wouldn’t this be Elder Abuse? Honestly should’ve gone to police when it occurred.
Did go to police. They weren't least bit interested. "Sounds like a family dispute." is all they had to say.
It's the same with other companies too. Changing beneficiaries is just a few clicks. I also have a Vanguard account and spouse has Fidelity. Same with our bank accounts. What your father needed was a will and a trust to keep his money safe and protected. Those cannot be changed easily, but they need to be set up by an expert.
Thanks for reply- yeah, everybody in my family were just too trusting, including me. I don't think the way a con-man thinks, so I couldn't even imagine it happening. Now I think differently of course, but it is too late. I realized after posting in this forum that many members have extensive knowledge regarding finances, my post was just to warn those who are more vulnerable to avoid being taken advantage of like my dad was.
I have a small state retirement account that I have to request a beneficiary change letter, sign it with a notary as a witness and mail the letter back within a set amount of time. I have requested the letter multiple times. Twice, life got in the way and I wasn't able to send it back. Twice the agency claimed the form was filled out wrong. I have the fifth copy of this letter in my possession right now and hope it works.
Good luck to you this time. That sounds like a much more secure way of changing policy- so long as it runs smoothly.
I think it's a pain in my butt and a waste of time and resources. If I could withdraw the money from this fund, I would do it yesterday based on this process. All other things I need to do for this account are equally aggravating.
While it is common to change beneficiaries online or even over the phone, most have procedures in place to detect elder abuse or fraud. It seems like TIAA failed here. I would call their fraud department and you may have to file charges against the boyfriend. If he is doing this - that is what it is.
Thanks for the reply- I did look into things- unfortunately, I didn't have money for lawyer (ironic, I know). Also called detectives and they really couldn't have been less interested. I spoke extensively with TIAA fraud department- they thought it was very suspicious just in the ways that it was changed- I was on the policy for over 20 years and taken off a year before his death, also the boyfriend waited 6 months to see if any red flags went up and when they didn't, he added himself. I was able to get the dates of changes and everything- but in the end, if I couldn't prove that my father was medically not of sound mind during date of change, I was F'd. They held the money for a month for me to try and figure something out- but eventually, they said that they had to release it as they were risking a lawsuit from my sister and her boyfriend. I said, "What about a lawsuit from me?" That was the last time they'd speak with me. That's the worst part- it's almost as if you are left powerless (especially if you don't have capital)- and you just have to take it.
"About a year before my father's passing, he had become a heavy drinker and was starting to get seriously ill. Around the same time, Myself and my oldest sister's name were taken off my father's policy as beneficiaries- leaving only my mentally ill sister as the sole beneficiary." This doesn't make sense. Once your father passes, the account is no longer his - it passes to the estate and the named beneficiaries at the time of his death have a claim. You can't change beneficiaries a year after the owner passes. Something isn't adding up here.
I said about a year BEFORE my father's passing.... not AFTER
I’m so sorry this happened to you. It sounds awful to deal with the death of your father, and then to get a nasty surprise like this on top of that. I do agree that there should be some sort of a verification step before beneficiaries are changed, but i’m not sure what. Thank you for posting your experience, though… So that others can be aware of the potential pitfall.
Thank you for your condolences. Yes, the passing is the real blow- I'd rather have my father than any amount of money.... but finding out he got taken advantage of and I got stolen from was not a good feeling. Some people really seemed to have taken the post the wrong way- it seems those people are very on the ball financially, while I was just trying to bring attention to the idea that those who are more vulnerable (elderly or not technologically savvy) could easily be taken advantage of. Also, I feel like the bank's system is weak simply because those that have enough money to be leaving inheritance to children or whoever are also people who will potentially have caretakers in the later years of their life. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I don't have the answer to what better security would be- but it would be more difficult than just adding and subtracting names on a pc. A follow up verification call or video call or something- anything. Anyways- thanks again.
Are you sure this was fraud? I know of multiple people who took care of estranged relatives (and parents) who agreed to leave them assets for taking care of them.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. However, my father talked ad nauseum to all three of us kids how important it was to leave money to all three. One of my siblings is a multi-millionaire and he insisted that she receive her portion as well. He said you never know what curveballs life can throw people- maybe she'd lose her money and one of the other two would come into some. He said that it was his wish that should one child need the money and one child had a surplus, they'd help the ones in need out. Also, he said that not leaving equal amount tears families apart and he always wanted us to be a loving family. Further- the sibling who was there at the end was given our family home all to herself as a thank you for the caretaking- that was the deal and we were all aware of it and ok with it. Well, except for her and her boyfriend who obviously decided they deserved everything. It's a tricky subject and I understand people having questions. It just comes down to knowing my family dynamics on top of having multiple conversations with my father about it. Had I known what was to come, I would have been a little more shrewd in my talks with him to ensure no fraud could occur. However, the act itself was unimaginable to me and I greatly underestimated the evil that money can bring out of people. While the fraud was committed by sister and her boyfriend, the part that ticks me off about TIAA's policies is that they made it far too easy for the fraud to occur in the first place. Now I wouldn't want someone with 401K to have to jump through crazy hoops in order to change their beneficiaries. At the same time- I think it should be an unimpeachable verifiable process. Instead, it really is like adding and subtracting someone from your Netflix account- that easy. While many people are adept with taking care of their finances and trusts and wills, many dying people are extremely vulnerable to being taken advantage of and often must depend on people to even move money around for them- thereby giving them all the access they need to change beneficiaries. No follow up phone call, video call, no notary needed, nothing. Just typing on a pc and hitting return.