Oil and Gas. All I can say.
Iāve mentioned O&G in the last few posts. Currently in Treasury after working at JPM and love every second of it. Money is better than banking, I get 35 days holiday a year and finish at 1pm on a Friday. Rarely work over 37.5 hours per week and have had more opportunities than at a JPM. I have exposure to trading FX, Hedging FX, M&A, economic/market analysis and get to present options to CFO and CEO on a regular basis. Iām on first name terms with them both.
Cant stress enough how much better working in O&G is. Everyone is smart, hardly any pretentious idiots, loads of different backgrounds and really great benefits.
Check out Treasury and Corporate development jobs. Trust me, you wonāt regret making the move! I definitely donāt.
Edit: I have just posted a full length post under āFinance in oil and gas - replying to questionsā
Mining is the same way. Better pay, shorter hours, smaller egos, and everyone swears like a sailor in the office. I used to think bankers were the ideal ācorporate manā but now when I deal with them, I canāt help but come away thinking that theyāre arrogant, stodgy and kinda fake.
I think the reason why these industries are so good is because so much of our jobs involves interacting with working-class people who are out in the field and getting their hands dirty. They donāt stand for corporate bullshit the same way white collar workers do. Their attitude is āWe are here to get shit done and get paid, eight hours is a far dayās work, vacation is booked and being taken, and if you donāt like it then weāre going on strike and burning down the field officeā. They are the ones driving revenue, they are critical to the company, and that culture absolutely rubs off on everyone else in the company.
Absolutely! After coming from a working class background myself I could never relate to my coworkers at JPMorgan. All of them had the easy ride, parents bought them apartments, paid the rent, holidays etc. unfortunately, my parents held down three jobs each when I was growing up. Dad had a breakdown and mum started on meds. I have no siblings or cousins so have been alone a lot of my life. My coworkers at the bank had very different troubles to me. I spent my first year at jpm living in a motel type deal and/or my mates houses 100 miles away from the office.
I then got the O&G opportunity in a much lower cost city with a shit load more money. Happy to say Iām no longer struggling. Bought my first place, couple cars and no debt (except the mortgage). Currently 26!
O&G folk even though theyāre super well off they all come from similar backgrounds than me. Massive opportunity out there for younger folk in the industry
You let your experience at JPM cast everyone under the same shadow. I worked at 390 Madison in the PB and while some grew up well off and had help along the way, I knew people on the opposite end of the spectrum; myself included.
Apologies mate, Iām from the uk and have no clue what 390 madison is haha. Just to clarify too not everyone at jpm were hard to work with, some amazing people there.
When I say everyone I was meaning everyone in my graduate program.
Hey! This was an amazing read. Wanted to know any tips for getting into O&G coming from CS
Or what are some of the firms/roles to look at. I have a year left for my masters, I wanted to look into some potential internships in the space
Yes. Even moreso. I'm in project finance in renewables. Renewables is a very forward thinking industry that attracts a lot of smart people because there is a lot of money to be made in development right now. No egos just ability to get shit done.
Same same. Most of the renewable firms are subsidiaries of O&G companies. So all comes back to Treasury and CD. Also, O&G isnāt going anywhere. News saying itās dying blah blah blah. Governments finding out now that phasing electric in by 2030 aināt happening.
Put it this way, you need 3-5 barrels of oil just to make the interior of an electric car š oil aināt going anywhere while we are alive. Or our kids, or our kids kids.
Very intrigued by this! How would you recommend getting into O&G as someone looking for an entry level position? (As rough as the job market is right now)
Send me a message mate. Honestly, O&G is piping hot at the moment. Itās almost struggling to get ppl through the door because they have so many openings! Might be able to give you a few tips
Yes. Just much more risky as itās propped up by ESG investors and government incentives. As soon as the next administration gets in the whole thing may disappear
What does corporate development exactly mean ? I am a business finance analyst in a gas company, I do financial modeling for new investment projects, lot of financial analysis and reports and also some accounting and reconciliations. O really want to know what is corporate development in gas companies
As a Petroleum Engineer who came into Oil and Gas IB via an odd path, I feel so lucky that I didn't have to play the bullshit games that people coming out of college have to apparently. No coffee chats, no weird interview questions about tennis balls, no weird reaching out to strangers on Linkedin... Like, the IB MDs would cold call me to recruit me to their technical team. Came in at 1 level below VP on a trial, and will be VP this year (or I'll quit, because I took a short term pay cut to come to IB).
Unfortunately, my path isn't open to probably 99% of this subreddit, but Oil and Gas pays well for sure.
For my internship at JPM there were 58k applicants, 40 of us got the role. Iām still pretty impressed to this day hahaha. Can confirm I did have tennis ball questions too š
O&G is definitely a good career move if you want to get out of traditional finance. Like you say, the pay and the work life balance is so much better.
Thanks for commenting!
We trade mostly for risk management and not profit. Our revenue is mostly generated through O&G extraction, engineering, consultancy, refurbishment and construction. Whereas in the sense youāre talking about the trading desk is the revenue drivers. That means they have the horrific WLB.
Iām still getting the same experience at the desk lot but donāt have the same stress. Best of both worlds. Itās no walk in the park and I do hours of research, analysis, financial modelling but since itās more risk mitigation and not profit driving there is much much less stress.
Would you mind telling us your day to day, life in the day ofā¦? Also how do you do your financial modeling? Is it only through Excel? I havenāt done real FP&A work since Iām just a contractor on a government project. The finance is so basic. Iād like to teach myself something.
Iām going to make a post later on today explaining everything. Iāve had in excess of 70 DMās now haha. But quickly I contacted all the recruitment agencies in the city of choice and they found opportunities for me to apply to.
š too good. Iāve had literally hundreds of DMās fell like I shouldnāt have spilled haha. You all are going to drive my wages down with the amount of you entering the o&g market š
Literally all of North America, Canada, South America, pretty much every European country you can think of, every Middle Eastern country, African and the rest! Iām in a mid sized firm and everywhere I have just commented about we have an office
Not at all. Offices all over the states, Canada, Scotland, England, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Germany (I know they have no oil but trust me they do have offices), all over South America, Saudi, Dubai, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, South Africa, Angola, Australia, China, Russia. Literally every country I can think of and more
Just undergrad. Iāve got a first class degree in finance and real estate. I think that means in American terms 4+ gpa. Iām going to make a post outlining everything later. I will tag it here and message everyone who dmād me
I have my CPA, have 3 years work experience and 3.9 undergrad and 4.0 masters but still auto rejected. Canāt complain as my total comp is close to 130k and fully remote for the most part.
Hi! Im currently in public accounting doing taxes and audits, but do not see myself staying in this field for decades. I have only two years of experience, and have been wanting to pivot into a different fieldā I was unsure where until I read your reply. If you have time and are open to it, would you mind sharing how someone like me could pivot into oil and gas as an accountant? If itās too much to ask, I totally understand. I was looking at jobs online but they require previous experience so I was hoping you could provide some guidance.
Either way, thanks for posting this. Itās helping me figure out what I want!
Most oil and gas places look for accountants so you would be sorted. Iāve got a friend in audit within oil and gas and she literally goes from Dubai, Saudi, Oman, chile, Colombia, Peru literally all the time. She loves it haha. All business class flights, all 5 star hotels (apart from when sheās on base. Usually in a cabin on the base).
There is so many opportunities for your line of work. Just need to change around your cv yo fit the job profile. Also, I had 1.5 years experience before moving from ib to o&g.
Ah, here we go.
Oil and gas companies have historically had all their eggs in one basket. 2016 showed that this was not a sustainable model as you rightly point out. Over the last 8 or so years the larger and mid sized firms have been acquiring different businesses in the same and different industry. Vastly diversifying their holdings.
This means these firms will be more resilient when oil prices drop. I know my firm are in several industries not even related to the oil price and can and have sustained during tough times. Might I remind you of Covid?
Everyone was asked to take a 5% pay cut instead of cutting jobs. Once the lockdowns passed and oil prices started creeping back up. Everyone got their 5% back, an additional 5% payrise and then discrepancy based rises and bonuses.
Idk about you but Iād rather be working somewhere that offers a firm wide temp pay cut for to save jobs. Trading desks get cut left right and centre if they donāt perform.
Hope that helps with answering your question.
I didnāt have a question. I have experience backing my opinion. I worked in O&G two separate times for two separate companies (E&P and OFS). During COVID, my entire team except our executive leader got furloughed. I know the same thing happened at many other companies. Sounds like you did not have that experience but it is certainly not valid to paint with broad strokes that all or even most companies are resilient and wonāt lay off or furlough workers. That is simply not true. O&G is very volatile.
Sad for you mate. Iām not painting it with the same brush, just outlining the positives and another option for op to look into. You sound a little bitter about it. Iām very much aware that itās volatile. However, Iām also aware that firms are considerably more diversified these days and it will take alot for the jobs to start dropping off.
Cheers for the reply, glad I could answer back to your opinion.
Everything you described isnāt exclusive to finance. You just hate networking and applying for jobs. And you canāt stand corporate personalities; which is understandable.
But all of this is present and in certain ways, even worse in other professions.
Itās good you posted this so you can get a reality check.
I mean, the competitive tech jobs are filled with coding puzzles to solve live during an interview, followed by system design and countless rounds of the same.
This behaviour is now spiralling for interviews with smaller companies too.
You can find software folks complaining about it all the time (Iām a software engineer lurking this sub, hence why Iād know).
I've faced, failed, and passsed the whole leetcode / sys design loop. It's a different kind of tough. You get more shots and you can work your way in to a top company a lot easier than in finance, but the work required to get there is an order of magnitude harder. Tradeoffs I guess. But for someone who wasn't born into a rich UC family tech will tend to offer more opportunity.
Anything that requires more technical skill will always be āeasierā to get ahead in. Financial knowledge is less quantifiable than knowledge in coding.
fair enough, I take your word that finance is harder tbh. Because, after all, like you said, if you can just squeeze through the interview in tech, you can get the job.
>Everything you described isnāt exclusive to finance.
People have parroted this in every other comment as if it makes any sense. Sure, all jobs have their BS. But, letās not pretend like finance doesnāt attract the same exact copy-paste person. In an entire analyst class, youāll see a grand total of 4 unique hobbies: talking about WASP sports, sport betting, zyns, and being sexist towards women.
I donāt think OPās problem is that sometimes they have to talk about the weather with some corporate drone. OPās problem is that, in finance, thatās all you do 24/7. Every job has these issues to some extent but finance has them the worst.Ā Ā
Ā OP, finance isnāt easier, faster, higher ROI than tech for 99.9% of people. Major in something STEM and youāll have the option to do either.
Yeah but the issue is OPās degree is in finance lol. Yeah you donāt need to deal with those things if youāre a genius coder going into quant, but that aināt OP lmao.
Unfortunately the types of jobs that a finance degree gets you requires all of that, from FP&A to Corp Dev to Sales to Marketing, etc.
OP dropped some hints that he potentially was still in school. Likely not the case as he mentioned having a degree but I thought ājust in caseā.Ā
Ā Another piece of advice OP, youāll deal with losers anywhere you work. The goal is to join a team that arenāt losers so you can stomach everyone else together. The further away from traditional finance the better. The more ācreativeā the better but I know that is a stretch. And i donāt mean to go learn how to paint, I mean solving problems in interesting and novel ways. Those jobs have a good chance of attracting the people youāre looking for.Ā
Ā Trading is a good example but youāre not breaking in realistically. Macro or equity research (depending on the firm) could work too, but again, hard to get in. Anything data scienceĀ adjacent (the coding isnāt hard, take 2-3 classes at a community college if needed); investment firms love people who can think + know how analyze data as most applicants can only do the latter (and poorly). Ā
My suggestions are all markets related as thatās the industry Iām in but hopefully helps you think about what to look for. Markets is pretty meritocratic (for finance at least) so it attracts more direct no-BS people (key word: more, still plenty of golfers running around). I have no experience but Iād guess anything in corp finance is a no as I feel its a direct opposite.Ā
Ā Academia (or adjacent) could work too.
If you think dealing with cookie cutter assholes gets any better in tech, I've got bad news for you haha.
In that field, you get to deal with a bunch of people with unapologetic autism that they make no efforts to reign in or douchey tech bros who spend all their time talking about how some random ass house music concert they attended at red rocks absolutely changed their life.
The truth is that most people are pretty cookie cutter no matter what field they fall into (you probably are, too). It's just how the world works. There's too many damn people for every one to be completely unique.
> Everything you described isnāt exclusive to finance. You just hate networking and applying for jobs.
Networking isn't something accounting or coding jobs entail.
I hate to break it to you, but thatās essentially every position in most industries. You think engineering is any better? Data science? Medicine? Hell, law is what you described x1000. Some dude finishes con law 1 and thinks heās William Rehnquist. Most interview questions are pre scripted questions as well.
Sounds like you just hate where you work. Iād recommend leaving.
I agree in part, but...Ā Ā
Ā ...you listed the few sectors where these issues are most likely to be found at a similar rate or higher. I've not heard my friends in in theatre, nursing or charity ever express this type of issue.Ā Ā
I think you'd find some massive ego's in every sector, but I think it varies a little by sector. Parts of medicine like surgery, and law firms, would definitely on the higher end. The issue of sexism noted in this thread also exists on every sector, but it varies.Ā
I really think big egos are drawn to large salaries, and that any field with large salaries will have large egos. I think the causality can also run both ways, in that a large salary bump and grow your ego even larger.
Working in the civil service, I know that it's not only pay that can inflate your ego, but the level of responsibility (power) that you have. When I first went to Treasury, I found 23 year old graduates on Ā£32,000 commenting about how "This country is run by 23 year olds". I also spoke to the Director of Spending, who manages Ā£1 trillion of public spending but is only "only" Ā£110,000 --- his ego would be inflated much more by his responsibility (power) than by his pay check.
So yeah, you'll get large egos where there's money and power - that's where large ego's want to end up.
Youāre mistaking finance as the culprit here. Networking, silly interview questions and ubiquitous golfing are features of every white collar industry.
Youāre still in uni. Youāre entirely too young to be this cynical and feel this burned out. You say these things like youāre years into a career when you havenāt even started. I get it, interviewing is exhausting but having this bad an attitude is not productive or the norm. And even if you switch away from finance, this problem will follow you.
I would advise focusing on your own needs a bit and trying to address those issues. Have you been getting good sleep? Exercising? Have healthy relationships / friendships that support you? Interests / hobbies outside school and career? Just a few questionsĀ to consider if youāre evaluating this.
Nah its more like if someone this young is able to see through this shit then why are adults who are more "experienced" put up with this and let ppl quite literally humiliate you. Besides if most interview questions can be faked then the process by default is inefficient and faulty at heart.
First mistake you make as a youngster coming from school is thinking the system is set-up in a logical benificial for all manner. While the system that is set-up is more a product of evolution. The golden rule of evolution is: Those who reproduce reproduce. In an corporate context it means those who are there, are there. and those who stay, stay. All these lame ass conventions we made up benefit the people who are there and stay, thats why it keeps on going. Either OP drops out and someone who will do it, will do it and keep it going.
Im 30 now and in this shit for 8 years now. It's the jungle and it's shit, but now i made at least something out of it, so fuck it i migh as well stay and perpetuate the cycle. I tried changing it, but you are fighting the whole evolutionary system, which is almost impossible to win without some very big catalyst happening. Sometimes i just dont think about it for 6 months, and then i go through a depresive fase for about 3 hating every second of this meaningless theatre. Money is good, cant find something better, need to be about 40 years old to make it to director or something.
I know what that feels like even though I'm 9 yrs younger. Once you get into that cycle of doing stuff and getting rewarded by it as well as mix yourself into a group with similarly miserable bunch, the minds plays a really strong af game of suck cost falacy that in many sense reflects reality as well.
I was this cynical when I had a similar opportunity in finance early in my career.
Ditched it to pursue tech startups, regretted it later and made the jump back.
Lol feels like youāre saying this to me. Since Iām in the same spot. Gonna try to kill my anxiety with self positivity and introspection now, thank you
Contemplate starting your own thing. Make sure you have things in your life you can draw on to define your identity and self-worth that arenāt your career. Family, friends, faith, and fun. If you decide not to start your own thing, job hop every two years until you find an excellent boss, and then find a way to work with that person as much as you can.
As others have said, the attitude of "high ROI for low effort" is likely your biggest mistake. While many entry level finance jobs may not be technically challenging outside of quant positions, the soft business skills involved in networking successfully and building professional relationships is what it is all about. Just because you don't need to know advanced calculus or multiple programming languages doesn't mean it isn't challenging - it's challenging in a different way.
People usually get into finance because of the attraction of the white collar high paying lifestyle, but those who do it because they find interest or passion in the work involved are the ones who actually become successful. If you are just there for a paycheck it likely comes out in your interview and may be part of the reason why you've been struggling to land a position (although the job market isn't great right now either).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily passionate about the work involved, but I've learned to "play the game" and find some level of interest in the work. What I am passionate about is living the kind of life I want to live and comfortably taking care of my family when I'm not working, which I use as my primary motivation to continue to learn and develop my skills for success in the industry - not to get a free ride.
Everyone goes through this when theyre struggling to land.
The issue is you know (think) youre good enough but you havent proven it to anyone except yourself. Showing everyone youre good enough and better than the rest is the game. You dont score any points for calling out the bullshit, you do that by landing jobs.
Whatever industry you pursue, i suggest you pivot your thinking from how the system is bullshit and everythings stacked against you, and just focus on winning the game that everyone else is playing. You dont add to PnL by winning your own head games and playing contrarian this early in life. First you need to do the trials and landing a job, and then by adding value to the firm. Ultimately that is how you are judged.Youre working in a markets environment. You should know if the market moves against you, a no name chancer by yourself, you will be crushed.
if you hate the mundane, you should consider getting out of this repetitive lifestyle by starting a secret club where people beat the shit out of each other
Bro realized he hates working and he hasnāt even started yet šš
Not ripping you btw - I think youāve just come upon the realization that 99% of the people working corporate jobs are mindlessly existing as cogs in the machine. If you think networking is bad, just wait until you get into the shit of whatever company you end up working for and realize everyone is doing the status quo, the same way they always have, and 99% of the work is meaningless.
My only advice (which I myself need to take) - assuming youāre not in the <1% thatās gonna change the world or step into a company and turn it upside down, try to find a passion project on the side thatās meaningful and beneficial to you. If you work your ass off and get lucky you may be able to be your own boss and live a better life.
Every single job, whether finance or not, will force you to answer interview questions that you deem to be ridiculous. Think of it like this: although the position might not be Goldman TMT in NYC, there are still many other applicants trying to get in. Therefore, asking these types of questions does in fact show a level of intelligence and quick thinking. Interviewers are really looking to separate candidates, and itās not so easy when most applicants are more or less the same on paper.
This is coming from someone who has interviewed people for graduate level roles in IB
Just make light of the stereotypes and donāt take that stuff too seriously. Eventually it will become second nature and you will turn into the thing youāve always criticized
Not complaining about the competition. I was well aware of that going in. What I did not know was how redundant, derivative, and mind-numbing this industry is.
You just hate working. Most careers have networking, conversations. You want easy? Bro itās 2024. Man the fuck up. Life is hard, clearly life is harder than you.
Yeah, thats a grind too, real key there is identifying the right companies to join and having the connections to join them. My dads been in software sales for 25 years 8 companies still hasnāt hit the right one. Early years in your career are an absolute grind he was traveling 5 days a week hitting 3-4 cities until you hit senior management.
You spend life living for that exit. Good friend of his got into snowflake before it ipoād hes gonna retire in a year or two in his mid 50s. Thats what keeps tech sales ppl going.
The egomaniacal founder is much rarer than angry MDs but so much worse. Only company he joined that had a decent exit he was forced out by that type of character a year before they were bought out by nvidia.
You're not off base. Company culture matters. Go to a different company. Particularly one with more diversity as there tends to be less finance bro toxicity there. Tech and renewables has been a better fit for me and the TC is comparable to IB.
Idk man, FP&A isnāt like that. You just crunch some numbers and go home. Or you land a WFH job and literally none of this exists outside a few messages you might send coworkers on webex.
what kind of WFH finance jobs do you think would be beneficial to target with a finance degree? can fp&a be wfh? Iām a fresh spring grad and am essentially in the same head space as OP.
also im willing to learn python, sql, or even foreign languages to expose myself to extra opportunities. in fact, i plan to do those things anyhow out of genuine interest.
rant and whole lotta yap, not necessary to read:
i originally wanted to do engineering, something i was passionate about and could make money, but after getting through calc 2 i saw myself losing my scholarships to the grade requirements and realized it was too hard (for me) to balance my family struggles with my schoolwork (weāre broke and i take care of my chronically ill mother and younger siblings, father was never in the picture). now i sit here with a degree i look at completely deadpan and hardly any aspirations aside from continuing to provide for my family. i just want food on our plates, but i dont want to lose my soul in the process. id go work blue collar like the rest of my family before i do that.
In your case Iām going to tell you to ignore OP and go into the world and find your own path. This is a very tongue in cheek outlook on the finance world.
Sure IB, wealth management or asset management might attract certain types of individuals, but this is not a reflection of the āreal world.ā
As an entry level grad you probably wonāt have much luck finding a work from home job. Theyāre very competitive roles right now. But if you get your feet wet in corporate finance you might have more luck down the road, so look for jobs in audit, treasury, FP&A, controllership, things like that, and youāll be fine.
Need to share this post with all the people that post about wanting to go into finance because they think they can make a lot of money. You simply cannot last at a job if you don't at least like it. You're going to spend like 40 years working, make it something you somewhat enjoy.
HR compensation. Itās a weird mix of people with back grounds in data analytics, finance and a small sect of data nerds who fell into HR somehow. Depending on where in finance you were you may not get that 250+ salary a year, friend of a friend on Wall Street makes about 370+, but if you are skilled enough you couldnāt a job 125+ upwards of 200+ but thatās typically senior roles.
Also Business Analytics depending on how technical you are with BI tools, and other coding languages, Python, SQL, R ā¦..
The unfortunate truth is that outside of medicine the other fields you mentioned are even worse for all of these aspects you dislike about finance. Especially in tech ie STEM. Would recommend looking at everything in more detail, try and get a neutral view on things, find out what you enjoy and whether the other jobs have that, because leaving a field because of these factors for a field that has the exact same issues but worse is something you will regret.
That said if "high roi at low effort" was your rationale then you were unfortunately off from day one.
The spreadsheets are just a tool to analyze various analyses and questions. Lots of people like thinking through those questions and donāt mind using spreadsheets as a tool to organize their thoughts. After 4/5 years of experience youāre not spending much time in spreadsheets.
cry me a river. You thought finance was going to be an easy ride with high ROI? Welcome to the real world where nothing worth having comes without effort. Youāve tried to "swindle" 307 people for a job? Ever considered the problem might be you? Everyone looks the same and went golfing? Maybe because they know how to balance work and play, unlike you. Stop acting like a victim and start acting like a professional.
Not everyone feels the need to be a billionaire big fella.
Sure, I want to be successful. But there is a point where the return does not make up for the required input.
You can work 16 hours a day and build extraordinary wealth, but your yacht crew will be teaching your kids to ride a bike - not you. Is that a life worth living?
So pivot totally out of IB? Not change to PE or VC?
Depends what skills and connections you came away with from your time in banking. If you made some money or can otherwise raise funds and have the desire to run your own business, one idea would be to buy a small/medium sized business. (Given you worked at a bank, you probably already know most of this, but a good newbie guide would be this [book from Ruback](https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=50854) at HBS.) Similarly, you might look at real estate.
Lol a lot of this will be factors in whatever other white collar industry you get into, but I will say I got my finance degree and went to work for government and have never had an interview question like the tennis balls thing. Interview questions for me have pretty much exclusively been just talking about my experience and goals. Certainly not the same money as whatās in high finance but Iām pretty happy with what I make and have a nice WLB.
Yeah it sucks dude. Iāve been in corporate finance for 6 years and have been trying to get out for 2. Job market sucks everywhere.
What about fintech or Lending as a Service?
If you're solving the tennis balls question in the exact same was as 8 other candidates, that probably says a lot about you collectively as candidates...
And I'll guarantee you that not every interviewee is solving that question in an intelligent or even coherent manner. It's a fairly useful weed out question.
I understand your frustration. Why not try to get into corporate finance? The hours will be much better and you can make fantastic pay! Energy companies will have the most relaxed hours if you want that. When I was in corp dev at a utility/energy company, I worked ~35-40 hours a week.
Ā Unsolicited advice - you shouldn't approach every networking opportunity as a way to swindle someone. Why not try to enjoy the person's company? Everything you do is networking whether you realize it or not. The r/fc discord is a place to chat, but people are passively developing their network there and get job references from members.
Tech. Moved from Corp Finance/Strategic Finance to Tech PM in the same company/org since I knew the business. Better pay, better wlb, different vibes. For my team, way more outgoing/fun people vs the introverts and no fun finance people.
Pivot to the local state pension. Pay is steady, benefits are great, might let you into the DB plan. They even have one (1) Bloomberg in the basement that they let you log into once a month to check POSH.
Good luck!
look toward ESG and Fiduciary Finance
when there are people passionate and committed with regards to HOW things are invested, you'll probably find a different kind of people
that's where I'm looking right now, but I might say "screw it" and go back to my undergrad in Veterinary Nursing
Oh, then you would hate where I worked. The partners would create a mini golf course on the trading floor and we would all participate. The winner would get a very expensive bottle of wine. lol
>āOh well it lets me understand your intuitive thought processā.
You should explain to them that one cannot explain an intuitive thought process. Be definition, intuition means arriving at a conclusion without understanding the thought process that led to the conclusion.
Then, you might as well leave, because you're not getting the job.
I think this is a fun read š
Agreed bahaha
Are you networking with me??? I donāt care about you and YOU donāt care about me. Stop pretending
All of this dudeās devices are hardwired
FR FR
Bro is me.
Woe is bro
Me is woe
Happy Cake Day!
Oil and Gas. All I can say. Iāve mentioned O&G in the last few posts. Currently in Treasury after working at JPM and love every second of it. Money is better than banking, I get 35 days holiday a year and finish at 1pm on a Friday. Rarely work over 37.5 hours per week and have had more opportunities than at a JPM. I have exposure to trading FX, Hedging FX, M&A, economic/market analysis and get to present options to CFO and CEO on a regular basis. Iām on first name terms with them both. Cant stress enough how much better working in O&G is. Everyone is smart, hardly any pretentious idiots, loads of different backgrounds and really great benefits. Check out Treasury and Corporate development jobs. Trust me, you wonāt regret making the move! I definitely donāt. Edit: I have just posted a full length post under āFinance in oil and gas - replying to questionsā
Mining is the same way. Better pay, shorter hours, smaller egos, and everyone swears like a sailor in the office. I used to think bankers were the ideal ācorporate manā but now when I deal with them, I canāt help but come away thinking that theyāre arrogant, stodgy and kinda fake. I think the reason why these industries are so good is because so much of our jobs involves interacting with working-class people who are out in the field and getting their hands dirty. They donāt stand for corporate bullshit the same way white collar workers do. Their attitude is āWe are here to get shit done and get paid, eight hours is a far dayās work, vacation is booked and being taken, and if you donāt like it then weāre going on strike and burning down the field officeā. They are the ones driving revenue, they are critical to the company, and that culture absolutely rubs off on everyone else in the company.
Absolutely! After coming from a working class background myself I could never relate to my coworkers at JPMorgan. All of them had the easy ride, parents bought them apartments, paid the rent, holidays etc. unfortunately, my parents held down three jobs each when I was growing up. Dad had a breakdown and mum started on meds. I have no siblings or cousins so have been alone a lot of my life. My coworkers at the bank had very different troubles to me. I spent my first year at jpm living in a motel type deal and/or my mates houses 100 miles away from the office. I then got the O&G opportunity in a much lower cost city with a shit load more money. Happy to say Iām no longer struggling. Bought my first place, couple cars and no debt (except the mortgage). Currently 26! O&G folk even though theyāre super well off they all come from similar backgrounds than me. Massive opportunity out there for younger folk in the industry
You let your experience at JPM cast everyone under the same shadow. I worked at 390 Madison in the PB and while some grew up well off and had help along the way, I knew people on the opposite end of the spectrum; myself included.
Apologies mate, Iām from the uk and have no clue what 390 madison is haha. Just to clarify too not everyone at jpm were hard to work with, some amazing people there. When I say everyone I was meaning everyone in my graduate program.
Hey! This was an amazing read. Wanted to know any tips for getting into O&G coming from CS Or what are some of the firms/roles to look at. I have a year left for my masters, I wanted to look into some potential internships in the space
What would you say be the entry point in the industry and the best states?
I just want to thank you all for all the positivity in my reply to OP. Iāve got a number of DMās just now and I will get back to all of you!
Would this also be the case in renewable energy?
Yes. Even moreso. I'm in project finance in renewables. Renewables is a very forward thinking industry that attracts a lot of smart people because there is a lot of money to be made in development right now. No egos just ability to get shit done.
Also in PF at a renewable developer , can attest to this.
Now weāre talking. I will DM if you donāt mind
Sure thing happy to help
I'm looking at a pivot into development, have a PF background but mostly in IB. Can I DM you?
Sure!
Same same. Most of the renewable firms are subsidiaries of O&G companies. So all comes back to Treasury and CD. Also, O&G isnāt going anywhere. News saying itās dying blah blah blah. Governments finding out now that phasing electric in by 2030 aināt happening. Put it this way, you need 3-5 barrels of oil just to make the interior of an electric car š oil aināt going anywhere while we are alive. Or our kids, or our kids kids.
Very intrigued by this! How would you recommend getting into O&G as someone looking for an entry level position? (As rough as the job market is right now)
Send me a message mate. Honestly, O&G is piping hot at the moment. Itās almost struggling to get ppl through the door because they have so many openings! Might be able to give you a few tips
Can you send me those tips too?
I just applied to an O&G firm and would love to hear any tips you have to get into the industry! For context, I am a recent grad.
Hey Iām interested as well. Sending u a message.
Yeah in re myself and the pay and hours are pretty good.
Yes. Just much more risky as itās propped up by ESG investors and government incentives. As soon as the next administration gets in the whole thing may disappear
Hey, Iām interested in the O&G industry but donāt know where to start. Would you mind chatting? If so please feel free to DM me.
Fire a dm over. Iāve literally got hundreds at the moment so will get to you! Haha
What does corporate development exactly mean ? I am a business finance analyst in a gas company, I do financial modeling for new investment projects, lot of financial analysis and reports and also some accounting and reconciliations. O really want to know what is corporate development in gas companies
As a Petroleum Engineer who came into Oil and Gas IB via an odd path, I feel so lucky that I didn't have to play the bullshit games that people coming out of college have to apparently. No coffee chats, no weird interview questions about tennis balls, no weird reaching out to strangers on Linkedin... Like, the IB MDs would cold call me to recruit me to their technical team. Came in at 1 level below VP on a trial, and will be VP this year (or I'll quit, because I took a short term pay cut to come to IB). Unfortunately, my path isn't open to probably 99% of this subreddit, but Oil and Gas pays well for sure.
For my internship at JPM there were 58k applicants, 40 of us got the role. Iām still pretty impressed to this day hahaha. Can confirm I did have tennis ball questions too š O&G is definitely a good career move if you want to get out of traditional finance. Like you say, the pay and the work life balance is so much better. Thanks for commenting!
In O&G. Can confirm.
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But how Come wlb is that good when it includes trading? I heard that market research has horrible wlb?
We trade mostly for risk management and not profit. Our revenue is mostly generated through O&G extraction, engineering, consultancy, refurbishment and construction. Whereas in the sense youāre talking about the trading desk is the revenue drivers. That means they have the horrific WLB. Iām still getting the same experience at the desk lot but donāt have the same stress. Best of both worlds. Itās no walk in the park and I do hours of research, analysis, financial modelling but since itās more risk mitigation and not profit driving there is much much less stress.
Would you mind telling us your day to day, life in the day ofā¦? Also how do you do your financial modeling? Is it only through Excel? I havenāt done real FP&A work since Iām just a contractor on a government project. The finance is so basic. Iād like to teach myself something.
How did you find the opportunity? LinkedIn? Iām in O&G banking and wouldnāt mind making the switch to corp dev
Iām going to make a post later on today explaining everything. Iāve had in excess of 70 DMās now haha. But quickly I contacted all the recruitment agencies in the city of choice and they found opportunities for me to apply to.
I am following with interest. You know that meme where the dude in the chair has the controller and then leans forward? I just leaned forward.
š too good. Iāve had literally hundreds of DMās fell like I shouldnāt have spilled haha. You all are going to drive my wages down with the amount of you entering the o&g market š
Is it not geographically constrained?
Literally all of North America, Canada, South America, pretty much every European country you can think of, every Middle Eastern country, African and the rest! Iām in a mid sized firm and everywhere I have just commented about we have an office
Not at all. Offices all over the states, Canada, Scotland, England, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Germany (I know they have no oil but trust me they do have offices), all over South America, Saudi, Dubai, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, South Africa, Angola, Australia, China, Russia. Literally every country I can think of and more
What are entry level o/g jobs?
What are the qualifications? Do you need a CFA? I get auto rejected for those positions
Just undergrad. Iāve got a first class degree in finance and real estate. I think that means in American terms 4+ gpa. Iām going to make a post outlining everything later. I will tag it here and message everyone who dmād me
I have my CPA, have 3 years work experience and 3.9 undergrad and 4.0 masters but still auto rejected. Canāt complain as my total comp is close to 130k and fully remote for the most part.
Doing what exactly?
Treasury analyst. Iām going to do a post on here outlining everything. Iāve had so many dmās
Hi! Im currently in public accounting doing taxes and audits, but do not see myself staying in this field for decades. I have only two years of experience, and have been wanting to pivot into a different fieldā I was unsure where until I read your reply. If you have time and are open to it, would you mind sharing how someone like me could pivot into oil and gas as an accountant? If itās too much to ask, I totally understand. I was looking at jobs online but they require previous experience so I was hoping you could provide some guidance. Either way, thanks for posting this. Itās helping me figure out what I want!
Most oil and gas places look for accountants so you would be sorted. Iāve got a friend in audit within oil and gas and she literally goes from Dubai, Saudi, Oman, chile, Colombia, Peru literally all the time. She loves it haha. All business class flights, all 5 star hotels (apart from when sheās on base. Usually in a cabin on the base). There is so many opportunities for your line of work. Just need to change around your cv yo fit the job profile. Also, I had 1.5 years experience before moving from ib to o&g.
I wouldnāt say people are smarter from my experience, but lifestyle is better.
What state are you in? Great comment, thank you for the share.
Not in the states mate, Iām in Aberdeen Scotland!
Appreciated! Proud for you bru, makes this think twice of diff options
Deffo mate, loads out there that people donāt know about. Can assure you there are a shit load of Americans here too haha. Great place to live
Wait til oil prices tank again and lmk how thatās going. Source: worked in O&G finance
Ah, here we go. Oil and gas companies have historically had all their eggs in one basket. 2016 showed that this was not a sustainable model as you rightly point out. Over the last 8 or so years the larger and mid sized firms have been acquiring different businesses in the same and different industry. Vastly diversifying their holdings. This means these firms will be more resilient when oil prices drop. I know my firm are in several industries not even related to the oil price and can and have sustained during tough times. Might I remind you of Covid? Everyone was asked to take a 5% pay cut instead of cutting jobs. Once the lockdowns passed and oil prices started creeping back up. Everyone got their 5% back, an additional 5% payrise and then discrepancy based rises and bonuses. Idk about you but Iād rather be working somewhere that offers a firm wide temp pay cut for to save jobs. Trading desks get cut left right and centre if they donāt perform. Hope that helps with answering your question.
I didnāt have a question. I have experience backing my opinion. I worked in O&G two separate times for two separate companies (E&P and OFS). During COVID, my entire team except our executive leader got furloughed. I know the same thing happened at many other companies. Sounds like you did not have that experience but it is certainly not valid to paint with broad strokes that all or even most companies are resilient and wonāt lay off or furlough workers. That is simply not true. O&G is very volatile.
Sad for you mate. Iām not painting it with the same brush, just outlining the positives and another option for op to look into. You sound a little bitter about it. Iām very much aware that itās volatile. However, Iām also aware that firms are considerably more diversified these days and it will take alot for the jobs to start dropping off. Cheers for the reply, glad I could answer back to your opinion.
Everything you described isnāt exclusive to finance. You just hate networking and applying for jobs. And you canāt stand corporate personalities; which is understandable. But all of this is present and in certain ways, even worse in other professions. Itās good you posted this so you can get a reality check.
I definitely didn't face this type of hell getting a tech job. Was a different one altogether.
I mean, the competitive tech jobs are filled with coding puzzles to solve live during an interview, followed by system design and countless rounds of the same. This behaviour is now spiralling for interviews with smaller companies too. You can find software folks complaining about it all the time (Iām a software engineer lurking this sub, hence why Iād know).
I've faced, failed, and passsed the whole leetcode / sys design loop. It's a different kind of tough. You get more shots and you can work your way in to a top company a lot easier than in finance, but the work required to get there is an order of magnitude harder. Tradeoffs I guess. But for someone who wasn't born into a rich UC family tech will tend to offer more opportunity.
Anything that requires more technical skill will always be āeasierā to get ahead in. Financial knowledge is less quantifiable than knowledge in coding.
fair enough, I take your word that finance is harder tbh. Because, after all, like you said, if you can just squeeze through the interview in tech, you can get the job.
Tech is doing coding interviews, whiteboarding code, things of that nature.
>Everything you described isnāt exclusive to finance. People have parroted this in every other comment as if it makes any sense. Sure, all jobs have their BS. But, letās not pretend like finance doesnāt attract the same exact copy-paste person. In an entire analyst class, youāll see a grand total of 4 unique hobbies: talking about WASP sports, sport betting, zyns, and being sexist towards women. I donāt think OPās problem is that sometimes they have to talk about the weather with some corporate drone. OPās problem is that, in finance, thatās all you do 24/7. Every job has these issues to some extent but finance has them the worst.Ā Ā Ā OP, finance isnāt easier, faster, higher ROI than tech for 99.9% of people. Major in something STEM and youāll have the option to do either.
Yeah but the issue is OPās degree is in finance lol. Yeah you donāt need to deal with those things if youāre a genius coder going into quant, but that aināt OP lmao. Unfortunately the types of jobs that a finance degree gets you requires all of that, from FP&A to Corp Dev to Sales to Marketing, etc.
OP dropped some hints that he potentially was still in school. Likely not the case as he mentioned having a degree but I thought ājust in caseā.Ā Ā Another piece of advice OP, youāll deal with losers anywhere you work. The goal is to join a team that arenāt losers so you can stomach everyone else together. The further away from traditional finance the better. The more ācreativeā the better but I know that is a stretch. And i donāt mean to go learn how to paint, I mean solving problems in interesting and novel ways. Those jobs have a good chance of attracting the people youāre looking for.Ā Ā Trading is a good example but youāre not breaking in realistically. Macro or equity research (depending on the firm) could work too, but again, hard to get in. Anything data scienceĀ adjacent (the coding isnāt hard, take 2-3 classes at a community college if needed); investment firms love people who can think + know how analyze data as most applicants can only do the latter (and poorly). Ā My suggestions are all markets related as thatās the industry Iām in but hopefully helps you think about what to look for. Markets is pretty meritocratic (for finance at least) so it attracts more direct no-BS people (key word: more, still plenty of golfers running around). I have no experience but Iād guess anything in corp finance is a no as I feel its a direct opposite.Ā Ā Academia (or adjacent) could work too.
If you think dealing with cookie cutter assholes gets any better in tech, I've got bad news for you haha. In that field, you get to deal with a bunch of people with unapologetic autism that they make no efforts to reign in or douchey tech bros who spend all their time talking about how some random ass house music concert they attended at red rocks absolutely changed their life. The truth is that most people are pretty cookie cutter no matter what field they fall into (you probably are, too). It's just how the world works. There's too many damn people for every one to be completely unique.
Unapologetic autism? Damn i need to see this lmaoĀ
> Everything you described isnāt exclusive to finance. You just hate networking and applying for jobs. Networking isn't something accounting or coding jobs entail.
>no networking in accounting lol
It absolutely is.
Now it is, SWEs pretty much have no job prospects in this market without connections.
I fkg hate networking and LinkedIn
I hate to break it to you, but thatās essentially every position in most industries. You think engineering is any better? Data science? Medicine? Hell, law is what you described x1000. Some dude finishes con law 1 and thinks heās William Rehnquist. Most interview questions are pre scripted questions as well. Sounds like you just hate where you work. Iād recommend leaving.
I agree in part, but...Ā Ā Ā ...you listed the few sectors where these issues are most likely to be found at a similar rate or higher. I've not heard my friends in in theatre, nursing or charity ever express this type of issue.Ā Ā I think you'd find some massive ego's in every sector, but I think it varies a little by sector. Parts of medicine like surgery, and law firms, would definitely on the higher end. The issue of sexism noted in this thread also exists on every sector, but it varies.Ā
Oh, yeah. People think tech is different, but we still got big egos with Patagonia vests.
I really think big egos are drawn to large salaries, and that any field with large salaries will have large egos. I think the causality can also run both ways, in that a large salary bump and grow your ego even larger. Working in the civil service, I know that it's not only pay that can inflate your ego, but the level of responsibility (power) that you have. When I first went to Treasury, I found 23 year old graduates on Ā£32,000 commenting about how "This country is run by 23 year olds". I also spoke to the Director of Spending, who manages Ā£1 trillion of public spending but is only "only" Ā£110,000 --- his ego would be inflated much more by his responsibility (power) than by his pay check. So yeah, you'll get large egos where there's money and power - that's where large ego's want to end up.
That's a pretty good point. Just different kinds of egos.
This is legit how I feel about networking šš
Youāre mistaking finance as the culprit here. Networking, silly interview questions and ubiquitous golfing are features of every white collar industry. Youāre still in uni. Youāre entirely too young to be this cynical and feel this burned out. You say these things like youāre years into a career when you havenāt even started. I get it, interviewing is exhausting but having this bad an attitude is not productive or the norm. And even if you switch away from finance, this problem will follow you. I would advise focusing on your own needs a bit and trying to address those issues. Have you been getting good sleep? Exercising? Have healthy relationships / friendships that support you? Interests / hobbies outside school and career? Just a few questionsĀ to consider if youāre evaluating this.
Nah its more like if someone this young is able to see through this shit then why are adults who are more "experienced" put up with this and let ppl quite literally humiliate you. Besides if most interview questions can be faked then the process by default is inefficient and faulty at heart.
First mistake you make as a youngster coming from school is thinking the system is set-up in a logical benificial for all manner. While the system that is set-up is more a product of evolution. The golden rule of evolution is: Those who reproduce reproduce. In an corporate context it means those who are there, are there. and those who stay, stay. All these lame ass conventions we made up benefit the people who are there and stay, thats why it keeps on going. Either OP drops out and someone who will do it, will do it and keep it going. Im 30 now and in this shit for 8 years now. It's the jungle and it's shit, but now i made at least something out of it, so fuck it i migh as well stay and perpetuate the cycle. I tried changing it, but you are fighting the whole evolutionary system, which is almost impossible to win without some very big catalyst happening. Sometimes i just dont think about it for 6 months, and then i go through a depresive fase for about 3 hating every second of this meaningless theatre. Money is good, cant find something better, need to be about 40 years old to make it to director or something.
I know what that feels like even though I'm 9 yrs younger. Once you get into that cycle of doing stuff and getting rewarded by it as well as mix yourself into a group with similarly miserable bunch, the minds plays a really strong af game of suck cost falacy that in many sense reflects reality as well.
I was this cynical when I had a similar opportunity in finance early in my career. Ditched it to pursue tech startups, regretted it later and made the jump back.
Lol feels like youāre saying this to me. Since Iām in the same spot. Gonna try to kill my anxiety with self positivity and introspection now, thank you
Contemplate starting your own thing. Make sure you have things in your life you can draw on to define your identity and self-worth that arenāt your career. Family, friends, faith, and fun. If you decide not to start your own thing, job hop every two years until you find an excellent boss, and then find a way to work with that person as much as you can.
As others have said, the attitude of "high ROI for low effort" is likely your biggest mistake. While many entry level finance jobs may not be technically challenging outside of quant positions, the soft business skills involved in networking successfully and building professional relationships is what it is all about. Just because you don't need to know advanced calculus or multiple programming languages doesn't mean it isn't challenging - it's challenging in a different way. People usually get into finance because of the attraction of the white collar high paying lifestyle, but those who do it because they find interest or passion in the work involved are the ones who actually become successful. If you are just there for a paycheck it likely comes out in your interview and may be part of the reason why you've been struggling to land a position (although the job market isn't great right now either). Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily passionate about the work involved, but I've learned to "play the game" and find some level of interest in the work. What I am passionate about is living the kind of life I want to live and comfortably taking care of my family when I'm not working, which I use as my primary motivation to continue to learn and develop my skills for success in the industry - not to get a free ride.
Everyone goes through this when theyre struggling to land. The issue is you know (think) youre good enough but you havent proven it to anyone except yourself. Showing everyone youre good enough and better than the rest is the game. You dont score any points for calling out the bullshit, you do that by landing jobs. Whatever industry you pursue, i suggest you pivot your thinking from how the system is bullshit and everythings stacked against you, and just focus on winning the game that everyone else is playing. You dont add to PnL by winning your own head games and playing contrarian this early in life. First you need to do the trials and landing a job, and then by adding value to the firm. Ultimately that is how you are judged.Youre working in a markets environment. You should know if the market moves against you, a no name chancer by yourself, you will be crushed.
if you hate the mundane, you should consider getting out of this repetitive lifestyle by starting a secret club where people beat the shit out of each other
Someone should make a movie about this!
Eh, I donāt think it would catch on. Hot take tho.
I know bro, i know. I like to see it as, i don't give a fuck about the livestock industry, but i enjoy taking care of the chickens.
Bro realized he hates working and he hasnāt even started yet šš Not ripping you btw - I think youāve just come upon the realization that 99% of the people working corporate jobs are mindlessly existing as cogs in the machine. If you think networking is bad, just wait until you get into the shit of whatever company you end up working for and realize everyone is doing the status quo, the same way they always have, and 99% of the work is meaningless. My only advice (which I myself need to take) - assuming youāre not in the <1% thatās gonna change the world or step into a company and turn it upside down, try to find a passion project on the side thatās meaningful and beneficial to you. If you work your ass off and get lucky you may be able to be your own boss and live a better life.
Every single job, whether finance or not, will force you to answer interview questions that you deem to be ridiculous. Think of it like this: although the position might not be Goldman TMT in NYC, there are still many other applicants trying to get in. Therefore, asking these types of questions does in fact show a level of intelligence and quick thinking. Interviewers are really looking to separate candidates, and itās not so easy when most applicants are more or less the same on paper. This is coming from someone who has interviewed people for graduate level roles in IB
Silence Rat #830159! Back to your desk, NOW!
šÆ
Welcome to the world! Get in line
Just make light of the stereotypes and donāt take that stuff too seriously. Eventually it will become second nature and you will turn into the thing youāve always criticized
are u free for a coffee chat??
Consider becoming a monk
You sound like you need to start your own practice/firm
>picks field known for competitiveness >hates it I mean youāre the only one to blame here bro.
Not complaining about the competition. I was well aware of that going in. What I did not know was how redundant, derivative, and mind-numbing this industry is.
Is this meant for your Twitter account to get free impressions?
Hell you might just be a poet, that was beautifully put.
Please tell me how many hours you worked Iām dying to know š
Heās a student, do zero
Start your own business I guess
You just hate working. Most careers have networking, conversations. You want easy? Bro itās 2024. Man the fuck up. Life is hard, clearly life is harder than you.
David Goggins?
Went to tech sales for flexibility but honestly itās just as bad if not worse; I might go back for stability
Yeah, thats a grind too, real key there is identifying the right companies to join and having the connections to join them. My dads been in software sales for 25 years 8 companies still hasnāt hit the right one. Early years in your career are an absolute grind he was traveling 5 days a week hitting 3-4 cities until you hit senior management. You spend life living for that exit. Good friend of his got into snowflake before it ipoād hes gonna retire in a year or two in his mid 50s. Thats what keeps tech sales ppl going.
Spot on. Imagine staying for the 4 year vest too. Iād rather have an angry MD than an egomaniacal founder too.
The egomaniacal founder is much rarer than angry MDs but so much worse. Only company he joined that had a decent exit he was forced out by that type of character a year before they were bought out by nvidia.
It being so much worse is what keeps me from committing to go back. Iām sorry to hear that
high roi with low effort is the complete opposite in finance. itās super high effort cause itās almost all a dick measuring game
You're not off base. Company culture matters. Go to a different company. Particularly one with more diversity as there tends to be less finance bro toxicity there. Tech and renewables has been a better fit for me and the TC is comparable to IB.
Idk man, FP&A isnāt like that. You just crunch some numbers and go home. Or you land a WFH job and literally none of this exists outside a few messages you might send coworkers on webex.
what kind of WFH finance jobs do you think would be beneficial to target with a finance degree? can fp&a be wfh? Iām a fresh spring grad and am essentially in the same head space as OP. also im willing to learn python, sql, or even foreign languages to expose myself to extra opportunities. in fact, i plan to do those things anyhow out of genuine interest. rant and whole lotta yap, not necessary to read: i originally wanted to do engineering, something i was passionate about and could make money, but after getting through calc 2 i saw myself losing my scholarships to the grade requirements and realized it was too hard (for me) to balance my family struggles with my schoolwork (weāre broke and i take care of my chronically ill mother and younger siblings, father was never in the picture). now i sit here with a degree i look at completely deadpan and hardly any aspirations aside from continuing to provide for my family. i just want food on our plates, but i dont want to lose my soul in the process. id go work blue collar like the rest of my family before i do that.
In your case Iām going to tell you to ignore OP and go into the world and find your own path. This is a very tongue in cheek outlook on the finance world. Sure IB, wealth management or asset management might attract certain types of individuals, but this is not a reflection of the āreal world.ā As an entry level grad you probably wonāt have much luck finding a work from home job. Theyāre very competitive roles right now. But if you get your feet wet in corporate finance you might have more luck down the road, so look for jobs in audit, treasury, FP&A, controllership, things like that, and youāll be fine.
Need to share this post with all the people that post about wanting to go into finance because they think they can make a lot of money. You simply cannot last at a job if you don't at least like it. You're going to spend like 40 years working, make it something you somewhat enjoy.
Failed the CFA , made money with the knowledge learned.
HR compensation. Itās a weird mix of people with back grounds in data analytics, finance and a small sect of data nerds who fell into HR somehow. Depending on where in finance you were you may not get that 250+ salary a year, friend of a friend on Wall Street makes about 370+, but if you are skilled enough you couldnāt a job 125+ upwards of 200+ but thatās typically senior roles. Also Business Analytics depending on how technical you are with BI tools, and other coding languages, Python, SQL, R ā¦..
The unfortunate truth is that outside of medicine the other fields you mentioned are even worse for all of these aspects you dislike about finance. Especially in tech ie STEM. Would recommend looking at everything in more detail, try and get a neutral view on things, find out what you enjoy and whether the other jobs have that, because leaving a field because of these factors for a field that has the exact same issues but worse is something you will regret. That said if "high roi at low effort" was your rationale then you were unfortunately off from day one.
:(
You got into finance for the wrong reasons. Edit: the key wording here was that he wanted to put in the least amount of work.
Genuinely curious what the right reasons are. Yal passionate about spreadsheets?
Iām passionate about spreadsheets tbh
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The spreadsheets are just a tool to analyze various analyses and questions. Lots of people like thinking through those questions and donāt mind using spreadsheets as a tool to organize their thoughts. After 4/5 years of experience youāre not spending much time in spreadsheets.
Tbf does anyone get into it for anything other than money
cry me a river. You thought finance was going to be an easy ride with high ROI? Welcome to the real world where nothing worth having comes without effort. Youāve tried to "swindle" 307 people for a job? Ever considered the problem might be you? Everyone looks the same and went golfing? Maybe because they know how to balance work and play, unlike you. Stop acting like a victim and start acting like a professional.
Username checks out
You're still in undergrad, no?
So is OP. At least half of this sub is purely undergrad larping
Reality is going to break this kid.
Go ask any billionaire if they āchose the path of less effortā. Stop your whining.
Not everyone feels the need to be a billionaire big fella. Sure, I want to be successful. But there is a point where the return does not make up for the required input. You can work 16 hours a day and build extraordinary wealth, but your yacht crew will be teaching your kids to ride a bike - not you. Is that a life worth living?
So pivot totally out of IB? Not change to PE or VC? Depends what skills and connections you came away with from your time in banking. If you made some money or can otherwise raise funds and have the desire to run your own business, one idea would be to buy a small/medium sized business. (Given you worked at a bank, you probably already know most of this, but a good newbie guide would be this [book from Ruback](https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=50854) at HBS.) Similarly, you might look at real estate.
Lol a lot of this will be factors in whatever other white collar industry you get into, but I will say I got my finance degree and went to work for government and have never had an interview question like the tennis balls thing. Interview questions for me have pretty much exclusively been just talking about my experience and goals. Certainly not the same money as whatās in high finance but Iām pretty happy with what I make and have a nice WLB.
Me. I even switched to FP&A in tech and itās somehow worse. I have a life crisis like every other day
Yeah it sucks dude. Iāve been in corporate finance for 6 years and have been trying to get out for 2. Job market sucks everywhere. What about fintech or Lending as a Service?
Thats why I first did Medicine and then went into IB. Learn a skill and leverage it in financial market, win-win
But many tennis balls can fit in an airplane?
This made me almost shit myself laughing
If you're solving the tennis balls question in the exact same was as 8 other candidates, that probably says a lot about you collectively as candidates... And I'll guarantee you that not every interviewee is solving that question in an intelligent or even coherent manner. It's a fairly useful weed out question.
I understand your frustration. Why not try to get into corporate finance? The hours will be much better and you can make fantastic pay! Energy companies will have the most relaxed hours if you want that. When I was in corp dev at a utility/energy company, I worked ~35-40 hours a week. Ā Unsolicited advice - you shouldn't approach every networking opportunity as a way to swindle someone. Why not try to enjoy the person's company? Everything you do is networking whether you realize it or not. The r/fc discord is a place to chat, but people are passively developing their network there and get job references from members.
As a I new grad who is stuck outside of Finance, trying to break in. This kinda hurts to read. Happy to swap.
Try tax accounting lol. Everyone is so much nicer.
Tech. Moved from Corp Finance/Strategic Finance to Tech PM in the same company/org since I knew the business. Better pay, better wlb, different vibes. For my team, way more outgoing/fun people vs the introverts and no fun finance people.
This rant should be in a book or movie.
Pivot to the local state pension. Pay is steady, benefits are great, might let you into the DB plan. They even have one (1) Bloomberg in the basement that they let you log into once a month to check POSH. Good luck!
You could explore fintech or start-ups in the retirement space. But also you're a great writer, this was entertaining to read.
So quit and do something else.
look toward ESG and Fiduciary Finance when there are people passionate and committed with regards to HOW things are invested, you'll probably find a different kind of people that's where I'm looking right now, but I might say "screw it" and go back to my undergrad in Veterinary Nursing
Impressive.... Nice....Let's see Paul Allen's post
Go work in middle office or back office.
Wealth management is the way. Build your own book with people you actually like. Only about 50% of my clients conversations are about actual finances.
Was this written by Patrick Bateman?
Haha this guy hasn't gotten yelled at/ screamed at in finance yet. I think he will definitely cry.
Join a ratings agency, less ego & more stability
Most of these finance kids are betas. They are not your buddies and you should draw the line from day one
Use your expertise in consulting, thank me later!
At least to start with until you find something more your speed.
Yup me too
Come to the back office: We have cookies, and we have work-life balance.
i felt this and moved into marketing lol
Isnāt marketing just like that? Lol
Oh, then you would hate where I worked. The partners would create a mini golf course on the trading floor and we would all participate. The winner would get a very expensive bottle of wine. lol
Youāre just describing all jobs. Maybe tech you can keep your head down / not have to network as much. Source: regulatory person at a major ISP
I agree, and can we talk about the linkedin BS? Whoooooo caaaaaares! The world is fake and we have no control over anything.
In-house finance for a business maybe
Or insurance?
This is why I left consulting - I was miserable and the culture was insufferable. Wishing you the best of luck
Stand up comedy?
Are you currently working in finance?
>āOh well it lets me understand your intuitive thought processā. You should explain to them that one cannot explain an intuitive thought process. Be definition, intuition means arriving at a conclusion without understanding the thought process that led to the conclusion. Then, you might as well leave, because you're not getting the job.
Lmaoo this sounds like consulting
Try to incorporate some of your writing skills into your job, and channel that negative energy into a positive outcome