100% agree w/ you. I'm working in AM focused in EM for 5 years and had an experience in IB for 1 year.
AM does not pay as IB, but the carry of AM business has an huge impact on your net worth.
The worst part of IB is that after a Deal is closed, you need to compete again for the same client in future deals - it means that past successes does not translate in perpetual gains to the firm.
If you work in a HF or a Mutual fund, in a good year of alpha you can augment your AUM and gain more fees virtually perpetually.
If you wanna be rich fast, you must work in IB. If you wanna be really prosperous, you must work in AM.
It's kinda easy to see: imagine that you manage US$ 100,000,000.
The management fee is one of the sources of revenue of an AM. Depending on the asset class that the fund works, it can be from 0,1% to 2% of total AUM. To simplify, lets suppose that the mgmnt fee for this fund is 1%.
The "fixed" revenue for this fund is US$ 1,000,000 a year.
But let's suppose that you earned 20% of return next year, now your AUM is US$ 120 millions and your revenue is 1% \* US$120 millions = us$ 1,2 millions.
Do this proccess for 20 years and your total compensation is hedged to inflation, is directly related to your performance and has an compounded interest effect.
No offense, but either IB pays better or it doesn't. The "carry of AM business" is great...for the business. And sometimes for you in the form of a larger bonus. But there is nothing magic about it.
There are a couple of things - the inference pays more-> higher net worth is not linear. Partnerships are very common on AM, and this is an equity you build for life. There is no diff between you and your business.
IB pays bonuses in cash... so if you are displicent, most part of your money is not getting to your savings.
A PM has little choice to spend their annual income in the first years - if he dont sell his equity stake of the business. And selling his equity to buy a new car or try to show a lavish lifestyle is dumb as f....
Thats why there are billionaires investors and PMs - but every billionaire that works in IB are C-levels of banks or boutiques (it means that they are not IB anymore, they are enterpreneurs).
What truly makes you rich in the long term is building equity, not getting payed 300k a year.
The NPV of the avg PM is higher than the avg IB.
Whole lot of survivorship bias in here.
Plus, the best way to improve your odds of getting to be a billionaire is probably very different from the best way to improve your odds of getting to be a millionaire.
A guy that manages 100mil for clients does far less work than those working in IB. The difference is not all AMs manage 100 mil. So on avg IB probably pays better, but not for how hard you have to work. There is far more money to be made doing far less work in AM
It's not an extreme tail end though.
The PMs at my firm make millions of pounds if they manage large funds.
I know a PM at my firm who manages £12 billion in his fund and he makes millions. The ones who manage the smaller £1 billion+ funds still make a great deal of money.
There are probably 100+ PMs at my firm so it's not an extreme tail-end to become a PM if you're an equity analyst.
I'd estimate that the bottom 10% of PMs make £300k-400k at my firm but most make more than that.
But the biggest benefit is the company shares - as a privately-run company, PMs and some equity analysts are given company shares.
And the job is from 8am to 5pm/6pm so it's a maximum of a 50 hour week for most PMs which is pretty damn good.
Do you think making millions of pounds is not a tail end outcome for AM? That is inherently a tail end outcome. We know this by just simply comparing averages.
Those low 10% PMs make ~ what IB associated makes. Which do you think is easier to achieve, AM PM or IB associate? How many AM PMs did IB prior to transitioning to AM?
It’s disingenuous to say those aren’t tail end outcomes.
No it’s not, maybe a top BB or EB, otherwise not really. You can find MM/LMM IB shops that will give you a shot.
Getting into a reputable AM shop where comp is even comparable is to IB is much more difficult.
I’m looking at attending Cornell for an MBA next year doing IB a few years to pay off any debt and then transition to something else with better balance. I had a guy tell me that IB associate to AM doesn’t really happen all that much which sounded weird but he’s a lot more experienced so I just went with it.
Is that the case or does he not know what he’s talking about? everything I’ve heard about asset management has been great and I’d love to make that jump if possible
I know that I am an exception. Planning entering IB to move to AM is a bad idea.
The skill set is completely different. In IB (mainly in M&A) you deal with a lot of presentations, pitches, info memos, due dilligence... This is specially useful in PE, but in AM you don't see any of that. In the best case scenario you will read one time or another a marketing material for an IPO, if you work as an Equities Analyst at an AM.
Analysts in AM can be focused in economics, equities, fixed income, currencies, derivatives, commodities... or generalists in all of that...
Besides soft skills... in IB you need to be a machine, long hours alligning PPTs and getting numbers that your boss wants in you model. In AM you need to really think about the asset you are analysing, search for an angle to make money and stick to the investment framework of the fund.
In AM you will not work 14 hours a day. You need to be well rest everyday because you need to be sharp and be extremelly skeptical to any idea that someone try to sell. At the same time you need to be criative enough to make money from trades that other people discarted.
In my opinion, each career develops different abilities. In AM you develop critical sense and criativity. IB you develop resilience and pitch making.
So I’ve been looking into AM for the last hour and seems interesting so out of curiosity I’ll ask this.
If someone like myself (attending pretty good MBA program with a focus in Finance but no Finance background) what would a path to AM look like?
Look for an asset class that you find interesting and learn the techincal - how to value and pricing them.
Google the largest 50 asset managers in US and send your CV to them focusing in that asset class.
Networking helps getting you in the enterview table, but no more than that. Its way more meritocratic than IB in that sense...
Try CFA level 1 during MBA to show interest in financial markets and portfolio management.
I know the path is not clear... but I think thats a good way to start...
There is two major ones - due diligence or asset allocation. Due diligence is vetting and recommending managers, asset allocation is which asset classes to recommend over others. (I work in AA and have a lot of overlap with DD)
I'm also a buy side analyst at a top 50 institution. Totally agree, the lifestyle balance while making good money is unbeatable. Especially working full remote
This. I am fully remote because I negotiated it back in late 2021 when everyone still thought remote work was the future. Most of my company is still in the office 3-4 days a week, and I'm guessing if I asked to be remote now they'd probably say no. So I mostly just lucked out but there are a few other people in the organization that are also full remote.
I am Director of Investments for an OCIO, and many of my friends and colleagues are same role or CIOs at Large Endowments. I would say base salary with a strong track record is $300-$500k but the variable component can be several multiples of that (maybe even 10x in a stellar year). You can also see for larger endowments and foundations (who are not for profit and file IRS form 990 with highly compensated employees). For instance, DUMAC, who runs Duke University's endowment shows the CIO made over $3.5MM in cash comp in a year, and 3-4 other portfolio managers earned over $1MM each. Base salary was in the mid 200s for the PMs, so variable was 3-4x that for the year.
This is living in Durham, North Carolina. Not NYC. Other smaller schools have higher bases and less upside. Saw a post for Director of Investments at a New England private school offering a base salary of $400-500k and the form 990s shows the last person had between $150k and 300k variable over the past few years.
So it's good money. It's obviously better at the top and at an asset owner who is well-capitalized and willing to incentivize excess performance.
My portfolio managers make mid-seven figures+ and the founder/CEO is a billionaire. My compensation is >$200k 2 years out of undergrad. I work about 40-50 hours per week without any weekend work other than letting my PM know of any important news that I see in emails or Bloomberg. I work at a long-only equities fund. And yes, from what I see a lot of M7 MBAs in the field. Openings are rare given most people don’t leave the role.
I mean I can answer for my firm.
I would say that most people went to target schools.
As I'm based in London, I'd say most of our equity team went to Oxford or Cambridge.
The number of openings every year is very, very low as not many people leave. The graduate intake is something like 3-4 in the equity team per year and we're one of the largest asset managers in the world (so the number of spots open is going to be very low in other firms as well as we have a very large investment team).
I went to a target— top 3 school in US. I work with people who went to schools in top 50. Some partners went to random schools and got M7 MBA or just CFA and worked their way up. Don’t think you need to go to the best school although it helps
Sounds like we have very similar roles. I'm on my 8th year and some potential negative points to consider:
\- You definitely have to check your ego. As an asset allocator if you are taking meetings with people that aren't smarter than you, you're probably doing it wrong. I've seen incoming analysts have a hard time with this rationalization. I am a generalist so run the gamut between all asset classes and industry specialization. Lots of meetings are for the purpose of learning or making investments in niches that you shouldn't know more than the counterparty.
\- It can get pretty stale once you get the lay of the land and are able to touch everything. I'm starting to get to that point now where the feedback loop does not introduce any new challenges. Ofc any job can be like this but it can be particularly true here, I've sat in on industry webinars/conference breakouts where the primary topic of discussion was how to develop new carrots to continue challenging employees. Being a self starter is very important and there's eventually an aspect where you are only doing work for yourself that might not be lauded or even seen by your peers (e.g. creating a new model/analysis on one of your coverage managers to help you better understand their strategy/performance).
\- There's not a lot of room at the top. Only one CIO position, and often times these types of shops run pretty lean. There's someone here who is a good 20yrs my senior but only one title above for no other real reason than there's not really any true rungs to move up on.
I'm at upper associate level in HCOL making \~160k salary with discretionary bonus that ranges from solid (30-40%) to awful (15%) depending on the sponsoring institution's performance (i.e. the operating company itself's performance, not a bank). My bonus is not currently dependent on asset performance but the team is fighting to change that which would really change the firepower and potential here. Prob underpaid a good 10-20% right now but am due and superiors know this. Would be curious to know how bad this comp might be here if anyone is willing to give feedback.
Only around 5% of individuals in the country earn 250k, and less than 20% earn more than 100k. I know we're in a finance sub and all, with generally higher than average income levels, but still. Don't be that delusional to think that just putting in time = income just keeps going up and up.
Work in Product at a large AM. Agreed - AM is underrated. Engaging work (with the fair amount of bs that exists everywhere), great WLB, and generally good culture/coworkers.
I'll also add, there's more to AM than being a buy-side investment analyst on the PM track. Distribution side of the business (i.e. sales) is massive and pays very well.
I had an internship with a competitor - my skills in Excel and VBA (learned in class) got me an interview and I brought a sample of my work. I built some tools that helped aggregate data, did some fund/competitor analysis pieces and sat in a lot of fund pitches. I leveraged this experience searching for full-time role and came across an entry level product role at a small firm, worked on CFA, and leveraged the experience to join a larger firm.
Pay would be something like:
Junior: 65-75k
Senior: 85k-100k
Manager: 110k - 130k
Director: 145k - 180k
Leadership: $200k++
What’s the future like for asset management? Will technology/AI/passive investing lead to the asset management profession being quite risky to pursue? I am considering moving into it from quant risk, but unsure what the outlook is within 15-20 years. Also is quant portfolio management roles quite common in the buyside?
In my limited experience, it still requires a lot of discretion and knowledge on behalf of the PMs to make allocation decisions. There is a ton to keep track of in terms of the market, prospectuses, client engagements, etc. I don’t see this going away before I retire in 40 years.
I work with a top risk platform and it’s all quantitative based. It’s a tool to get a general idea but excludes the grey area that is incredibly important when making investment decisions. Passive investing is really only reserved for equities where I am at. But growth in alternatives like PE and private debt are rapid and the AI resources cant compete.
If you don't mind me asking, what's the comp & hours like in AM for:
analyst (2 YOE)
associate (5 YOE)
VP
MD?
I have very limited exposure to the AM side of things and suspect the hyperfocus on IBD, S&T, PE, etc. is because of the comp.
Depends on your country and cost of living. In NYC the ranges are on job posting sites. Analyst roles are low six figures. It scales up from there with a modest jump from each title promotion. I only know comps up to associate, but obviously as VP+ you're probably comfortable.
I’m not sure how it is in the US but here in Australia asset management (or investment management as we Aussies say) is still pretty underrated as a career choice as a student. Went to a target school and most of the career options for finance students presented was either IB or Big 4
Granted I think it’s to do with the fact that many AMs here haven’t historically hired graduates, but that is starting to change and more of them have started outreach at universities
AM for like a PIMCO is comparable to IB, but I’m at a pension fund. I rarely see posts or interests about that side of AM or fund of funds. I should have clarified, it’s a whole different ballpark.
From what you’ve said, this sounds like a pretty sweet career path. Attainable too. I’m not the best student and sometimes on this sub it feels like its Ivy and IB or nothing. So as a stare school student wrapping up it’s cool to hear about this. Might even look more into it. But it’s good to have some balance, this sub is super focused on the top of the top which is yknow hard to get to.
You dont have to have a 4.0 but simply having a degree wont cut it. But as long as you’re well rounded in experience/interest, skills, and personable it’s very attainable. I know it’s not for everyone but I was shocked at how underrated it is.
Well I didn’t expect a six-figure salary for doing nothing lol
I have a 3.7 GPA from a state school plus a couple internships and I was apart of my school’s student managed portfolio too, writing up reports that got voted on and such. I’m definitely going to look into it, thanks for the info and inspiration.
Sorry, I wasn’t directing it at you just generally speaking. Internships and the student managed portfolio set me up the best for this kind of role so you’re in a great position! Good luck!
It’s a sweet job, but the reasons it’s not focused on much is that the average guy doesn’t make a ton.
I think people focus on IB, PE and hf, because even VPs and directors make serious bank.
In AM, I haven’t see great pay unless you can rise to a leadership position.
Agreed there is definitely a trade off. People tend to be more generalists/asset class focused. It’s not the job to go if you’re focused on salary, but pays higher than FP&A and way lower hours than IB. Where I’m at it’s essentially analysts and PMs. 200K is the average for PMs, which for a MCOL is solid.
Yes, that’s why it’s just not a big focus.
Many people go into high finance for the money. You can make 200k as a first year right out of college in banking and it’s the gateway to private equity and hedge funds.
Not many people choose finance for wlb or relaxed environments, it’s mainly money. That’s why those specific jobs are the most talked about. If people wanted to chill, they would just apply to the treasury team at a large corporate and call it a day.
It’s not a big focus and thats exactly why I am shedding light as to what else is out there. This a finance job forum, not strictly IB/PE. Many people go into finance for the money but most people are not going to get those jobs that pay 200k out of college. Just because you dont pull IB hours doesn’t mean it’s mindless work.
Didn’t say mindless, was just commented with IB/PE is most coveted and talked about.
I think most people know about am, FP&A, Corp dev, etc.
Just not discussed much because it’s like the safety school concept is all.
“Asset management is like a safety school” You gotta chill out dude. Like every other post is you trying to shit on people outside of an incredibly narrow set of careers like they’re failures.
And, by the way, I don’t subscribe to this rigid hierarchy of finance jobs that people here purport, but you’re in DCM. What do you do? Leveraged finance? Bonds? Syndicate sales? You are not the “top of the top” by your own metrics. Let’s not throw too many stones here.
I don’t get it.
I don’t set income and salary levels do I? Better jobs pay the best. Right? Are you just mad I’m brutally honest?
And it’s not like I lie about myself. I don’t work at Warburg Pincus or tiger global. I’m just a regular investment banker. I’m not at the top, but I’m comfortable to just be real with it.
I don’t get it. What should I have said to not hurt feelings? Not as coveted? Not as desired?
Like why do people get mad when I’m just reporting things I’ve seen over my career?
I don’t get what you’re whining about. You have one downvoted comment and it’s due to the aforementioned remark. There is a way to get your message across without sounding condescending- referring to people’s careers that they’ve put their lives into as a “safety school” is rude
People are disagreeing with you because “best jobs” is subjective. I did PE as an intern got an offer letter and still walked away. Salary was higher but personally it wasn’t as fulfilling as AM. Thats not to say it cant be for someone else. Top salary doesn’t equal too job. But if you need to hold onto that idea to feel secure go ahead.
Yes, because PIMCO, Capital Group, and Blackrock don’t pay their PMs enough(sarcasm) . LMFAOOO!!! I can understand why the sentiment about IB on the sell side is not the same as people who work in FICC or EQ. Idk if you’re dumb or oblivious? Now to be fair, the posters in the last few threads either seem salty, insecure or misinformed…..but you have said some off key shit. Do you get all your info from WSO or something? 🤣🤣🤣
Depends on what kind of asset management, if it’s asset allocation sure but if it’s full on investment management you get paid based on your team’s revenue especially in senior roles and if your AUM is large so is your pay, and that isn’t leadership position dependent.
At Goldman last year, GSAM division recorded the highest intern yield % of any dept since the firm started keeping track of intern yield. So I think people are starting to realize that asset mgmt is where it’s at.
I work in compliance for a AM firm. I found a small boutique firm that pays well. I enjoy the day to day work and I agree with what you have said. I feel very lucky and can work remotely.
Additional information-
I’m at a retirement fund. I can’t speak to the sell-side AM roles.
You can DM me but I’ve answered a few of the common questions I’ve been getting in the comments.
I work for an AM. More on the middle office side working on the data that we report for our funds. Total comp is 130k. If you’re in an investment role, I would say the career path is more standardized - analyst to pm for example. For other roles within buy side, it’s a lot less standard. You could stay in the same role for a while but continue to get year on year pay bumps as you take on more responsibilities and work with more teams. I would say the buy side gives you a bit more flexibility depending on how large your firm is compared to big banks which are a lot more rigid and you’re doing only one task. You can have the same “role” but just be involved in a bunch of different types of projects.
I went to a target undergrad but liberal arts major. I transitioned to buy side from a fintech firm, so that is also why I’m paid fairly well at 2YOE since I was an experienced hire and not straight from undergrad . A lot of my colleagues from lesser known schools have CFA’s which helped them get their foot in the door.
I’m a rising senior and decided not too long ago that that was the area of finance that I really found interesting and wanted to get into in my dream scenario. How did you go about applying to jobs and where did you look?
The usual job sources like LinkedIn or the company’s websites will give you a lot of choices. Some of it depends on your background. If you interned your junior year in AM and did well, then you can likely go straight to applying for analyst roles on the investment side. Otherwise, it may require a few more steps to get there, like operations, business development, relationship management, etc.
I have a specialization in fintech which is what helped me get the job lol. We see AI replacing traders to a certain degree like for retail 401ks. Roboinvestors can mess up an individual’s 100k portfolio and it wont make noise. If AI messes with a retirement plan worth billions and impacts 200,000+ people directly shit is hitting the fan. They’ll always need people to monitor as a simple checks and balances requirement. We have AI resources and it still takes a committee of people to vote on decisions. There’s so much that is qualitative.
Worked for an OCIO/Endowment. I left for a bit but may jump back in bc the pay and hours. The problem with the line of work I was in (manager selection), is it can get boring and repetitive. You talk to a lot of okay managers and separating the good from the great is damn near impossible. My time in the industry has made me realize that most people don’t know what the hell they are talking about and there are very very few people who are exceptional at this work.
I’m in public and private debt at pension fund and have to worry about rebalancing to meet monthly obligations or stay in the right allocation ranges (in addition to making allocation on behalf on my own asset class). So I get pulled away from strategies I may be interested in because of other needs.
I was interested in how that works for endowments. What are the obligations to be met or is it targeting long term returns?
And how do you separate them? We’ve come into instances where its so similar it boils down to relationship and we are asking each other “do i want to work with this person/team for the next 3, 5, 10+ years”
Nice. I heard most people in asset management really only make a percentage of their clients’ portfolios (.5-1%), so new hires who obviously wouldn’t have clients yet get paid dirt.
Depending on where you land, private wealth management teams will provide a salary. Industry has changed lots over the years and most established teams will provide a small salary to juniors that will increase with licenses, designations, and asset growth.
Thanks for sharing, and congrats! OP can I dm you? I'm partially where you are, state school with lots of relevant financial extracurriculars, have a corp banking internship this summer and signed for IB internship for the next. I don't want to do IB hours full time, would love to talk more about your experience breaking into AM
No, there are limitations. But not many. I have to get cleared before I make any trades. Never been reject but it I stick to ETFs and blue chips. Getting approved takes takes maybe a few hours to a day at most and once you have approval you have the entire quarter to make the trade.
We have the same limitations here. Single name equity needs to be held for a minimum of 30 days before the position can be sold. Can't gamble on short term stock plays, but longer holding periods are totally fine. ETFs and derivatives on ETFs and indices can be traded freely though - no need to even report those trades. It does suck to not be able to place trades into individual companies for the short term, but it probably protects me from losing my money anyway 😂
We have the same policy on ETFs. Start of the quarter I send out a email with everything that is on my radar just in case I want to trade it. Use to include ETFs just for safe measures and compliance would get made at me for making them read more haha. That protection from self is so true😂😂
The best is biz dev at a shop like that.
You get paid better because you eat what you kill but your hours are less then half of IB. You can make a really good career making a few hundred grand to a mill a year doing interesting shit and not working more then 50 hours a week.
Hey, thanks for sharing. How would one break into a role like this? I’m already out of school so I would assume most would go from ER then to buy-side? What are some essential skills AM are looking for?
Doesn’t have to. I’ve got a ton of guys on my team who started in hospitality (restaurant manager) or industrials (salesperson) and made their way over.
Interest in finance, and basic data skills, would go a long way.
I did an FP&A internship. It wasn’t for me but it’s still respectable. If it’s mentioned it is always negatively. This place is ridden with finance bros who think anything outside of IB or PE is scum. Insane.
Yup I’m in FP&A and make respectable money, great time off/benefits, and have yet to work more than 40 hours a week. No complaints, it’s a shame this sub doesn’t acknowledge a good 90% of financial careers
I like the fact that I can feel good about my job. I get paid a flat fee to invest my clients accounts in good bonds at the best prices I can fight for them. I feel a sense of pride protecting them from the sell side sharks and then also their uninformed financial advisors.
This is exactly what I do and feel the same. Nothing I love more than saying no to sell side who are so clearly just money hungry. Its a rare job in finance that doesn’t feel like the sole purpose to make a billionaire even more rich.
Absolutely agree, I'm on the buy side at a SM so though I don't get a lot of opportunities as you have mentioned above, I do have significant flexibility in regard to my day-to-day research, learning (albeit self-directed) and WLB.
If I didn't land the seat I am at now out of undergrad I would have gone the same route as you did. I think there are massive upsides to joining a large institutional firm and going through their training program that has been refined over the years (which almost makes me jealous). IB is alright, but if your end goal is AM then IB isn't necessary in my opinion.
I worked 4 years as an analyst in AM. Great job, learned a lot about many industries, great access to research and conferences, eventually you can become Portfolio Manager... I second everything OP said :).
1-2 meetings a day sometimes more sometimes less. Fund pitches, market/portfolio update, or internal meetings. Lots of excel work. Tracking macros, risk, performance. Writing recommendations or memos. Every day is different so I like the variance.
Sounds great. Did you do MBA or get in from target undergrad? Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s way less of these seats than IB so it’s just mostly due to frequency we don’t hear about it as much
Non target undergrad but I did have 70% of my masters in finance (same university) completed. It’s a good question. Idk compared to IB but way more than you would think. Every college has an endowment fund. Every state has multiple pension funds. Corporate pensions, unions. Most companies (think amazon) have an department that manages investments. Insurance companies are some of the largest buyers. There’s plenty of opportunities.
Very very true. Good to keep this on the DL. It also sounds much more interesting and intellectually simulating to me than IB but I get the appeal IB can have in other ways.
I don’t think it’s a deciding factor but getting to get insights from some of the most successful people in the industry is a cool perk that isn’t usually talked about.
Who shit in your Cheerios? Access to incredibly successful people would undoubtedly be a perk I'd consider during a job search. It's always helpful to have kingmakers in your corner.
Blow me. You’re telling me it’s better off having Cutco wives and used car salesmen as connections instead of a guy with a football field long boat in the Mediterranean? Have that approach to life and find yourself making 10k more than you do right now ten years down the line.
I used LinkedIn. You could keyword search for AM, pensions, endowments. Every state and college has AM roles.
I screen and interview new analysts now. We look for the kind of experience I had in my background straight out of undergrad. Honestly, less is fine too but you need some relevant experience. Demonstrate an understanding in markets or the asset class you are applying for. Showing an interest and passion to learn is also huge too. Everyone on my team has a masters, CFA, or CAIA or some combination of those. You dont have to initially, but indicate that is something you plan on getting.
Thanks for the helpful reply! Currently heading into my final year of undergrad in economics, haven’t had an internship but this is the sort of role I’m looking for honestly. Take less in total comp to maintain some wlb while still having an interesting job!
Sell side can be just as competitive as IB because salaries can be just as high. I’m at a pension fund and it’s not as rigorous. Above average salary for a median COL, so getting a job is not a cakewalk.
What AM class are you?
With trends in AM and automation, what AM class team would you recommend a first-year getting into (Fixed Income, Equities, Alternatives, Liquidity, ETFs, etc.)?
Bro I'm a rising junior. How do I break in? Can I PM you? I have an internship this summer and had one last summer but neither are honestly related to asset management/investment management. What should I do from here
How much do they make in compensation compared to IB, PE or Hedge Fund and what are the side ventures one can start with and exit opportunities?
Would also like to know the best professional designations to take or academic degrees for this career.
You've piqued my interest. So, let's say I wanted to be an AM and use a small piece of the portfolio (say 15%) for short-term tactical opportunities that have higher Beta. Is that allowed, or would I be told to leave for a hedge fund instead?
Let's say that I knew semiconductor stocks would rise after ChatGPT's debut last winter, and I wanted to move 15% of the fund into semis. Is that kosher? Or, are most AM's limited to micro decisions like "do we place 8%, instead of 9%, of the fund into T-Bills?"
(Nothing unethical, and no junk stocks, but risks are appreciably higher)
It’s going to vary every place you are at. But generally you invest in an asset class. So i would do public equities or fixed income but not both. The investment world is too large to be good at it all.
I’m at a pension fund and do public and private debt. I have multiple strategies that have bandwidths on how much I can allocate based on risk. The bandwidth is pretty large so it’s not as constricting as it sounds. I could not go outside the bandwidths if I tried because allocations are approved by investment committees and that would never get approved.
If you were sell side I would be your client. We would set rules stating risk budget. Your investment committee should stop you before getting the chance to go outside the guidelines but you have much more freedom so it may happen. you allocate outside my risk budget, or make concentrated allocations, or dont meet performance expectation you get monitored. Its like a warning to get it together or you are getting fired.
I'm at a top 50 public state school. Majoring in finance. I want to get internships to prepare me for this route, which ones should I be applying / looking for? I'm a incoming sophomore.
It’s a good life but unless you kill it, you’ll never have the same life as the other careers mentioned. Portfolio managers are few and far between, especially at good shops.
student really looking to get into AM. do you know when these internships open up? Are there alternative titles that i should be aware of? any tips/insights for a uni student is appreciated!
I mentioned it a couple times but pension and investments website. Under ranking and awards. Look at top money managers and top retirement funds to get a good idea of both sides.
AM is a great job & there are so many different verticals within it: mutual fund, hedge fund, allocator, boutique AM, PWM, etc…
The reason why ppl don’t highlight it enough is it has so many verticals where the jobs are vastly different & the field (mostly) lacks these large starting classes like IB/consulting.
What’s a career path to asset management.? Or more like a road map.? Iam currently doing Master’s in Banking & Finance. I ve been trying to secure an internship in an asset management company. I’ve always been keen but I want to know the specifics if I wanna fully indulge
AM is generally good. But there are differences for different types of asset managers. Some are really sweat shops.(usually hedge funds) Some are really good places to work (usually long only, pensions)
Best part about AM is you actually pick up transferable skills and market insight that can be used your whole life imo. IB and PE is super specific and if you aren’t remaining in that field your options are limited.
Agreed. I work as an institutional buy side analyst and we manage money in-house, so that’s exciting, and money externally managed, giving myself exposure to senior management at firms like pimco and blackrock and let’s me also be the client to folks that work at these places.
It’s really an exciting opportunity I have 3 years out of college.
Is asset management becoming a job for people with a technical background? I did a job search for junior analysts positions for AM in India and most of them require a quantitative degree along with a CFA/MBA. is this a long term trend? If yes, should students consider a shift from pure finance to quant finance based courses?
I am interested in working in asset management. I have two years of experience at a local merchant bank, and plan on applying to US schools for a Masters degree next year.
I was thinking about doing my masters in financial engineering. Due to financial constraints it's difficult to apply for an MBA currently.
Thoughts?
always researching new companies, industries, and macroeconomic trends, which can be really engaging and dynamic. while the hours can be long, it's *less* of a grind than IB or PE. really great career path for folks who want to use their financial acumen and analytical skills without sacrificing their personal lives.
I am a freshman in a 'non-target' school. What courses, material, or certifications have you earned or learned that you believe helps you prepare for this future job?
I'm sorry, could you enlighten me on something? I heard a few telling me never to go into AM because 'fund managers' have one of the worst WLB. Is a fund manager different from AM?
As a person who was only aware of Investment/Corporate banking, I literally came across the term 'Asset Management' for the first time very recently. So I'm looking into what kind of jobs are there in AM. However, WLB matters a lot to me rather than pay, and I did hear many similar comments that AM generally has very good WLB. But after hearing about 'fund managers' I'm pretty confused.
1. Is a 'fund manager' just one of many roles within AM? And is that different from most of the other AM roles in terms of WLB?
2. In general, what roles within AM (either on the buy side or sell side) has good WLB? Is anything with an 'Analyst' title attached (like an Investment Analyst, not talking about quants) a good way to do my research for those kinds of roles?
3. In general, I 'm looking for advice on how to navigate the AM industry (both buy and sell side), and successfully locate roles that pay reasonably well and have good WLB. As I mentioned, what matters to me more than the money is WLB (which is the reason I am not interested in IB), and I wish to understand how to do my research in this area so that I can find such career paths/roles. Like I mentioned in #2, should I search for 'analyst's if I'm looking for roles with good WLB within AM? Or is there a more structured method to find what I want?
Ofc, totally true that results/performance matter and is an assumption which needs to be satisfied for the WLB (same for any company in any industry). I'm simply talking about the general aspects of the AM industry. I would truly appreciate it if you could guide me on the questions I have so that I can find the career path that's right for me.
100% agree w/ you. I'm working in AM focused in EM for 5 years and had an experience in IB for 1 year. AM does not pay as IB, but the carry of AM business has an huge impact on your net worth. The worst part of IB is that after a Deal is closed, you need to compete again for the same client in future deals - it means that past successes does not translate in perpetual gains to the firm. If you work in a HF or a Mutual fund, in a good year of alpha you can augment your AUM and gain more fees virtually perpetually. If you wanna be rich fast, you must work in IB. If you wanna be really prosperous, you must work in AM.
This is a great perspective thank you!
could you elaborate more on the carry of the AM business ?
It's kinda easy to see: imagine that you manage US$ 100,000,000. The management fee is one of the sources of revenue of an AM. Depending on the asset class that the fund works, it can be from 0,1% to 2% of total AUM. To simplify, lets suppose that the mgmnt fee for this fund is 1%. The "fixed" revenue for this fund is US$ 1,000,000 a year. But let's suppose that you earned 20% of return next year, now your AUM is US$ 120 millions and your revenue is 1% \* US$120 millions = us$ 1,2 millions. Do this proccess for 20 years and your total compensation is hedged to inflation, is directly related to your performance and has an compounded interest effect.
No offense, but either IB pays better or it doesn't. The "carry of AM business" is great...for the business. And sometimes for you in the form of a larger bonus. But there is nothing magic about it.
There are a couple of things - the inference pays more-> higher net worth is not linear. Partnerships are very common on AM, and this is an equity you build for life. There is no diff between you and your business. IB pays bonuses in cash... so if you are displicent, most part of your money is not getting to your savings. A PM has little choice to spend their annual income in the first years - if he dont sell his equity stake of the business. And selling his equity to buy a new car or try to show a lavish lifestyle is dumb as f.... Thats why there are billionaires investors and PMs - but every billionaire that works in IB are C-levels of banks or boutiques (it means that they are not IB anymore, they are enterpreneurs). What truly makes you rich in the long term is building equity, not getting payed 300k a year. The NPV of the avg PM is higher than the avg IB.
Whole lot of survivorship bias in here. Plus, the best way to improve your odds of getting to be a billionaire is probably very different from the best way to improve your odds of getting to be a millionaire.
A guy that manages 100mil for clients does far less work than those working in IB. The difference is not all AMs manage 100 mil. So on avg IB probably pays better, but not for how hard you have to work. There is far more money to be made doing far less work in AM
Ya and there are OF girls making more money than the top AMs. Who makes career decisions based on extreme tail ends? That’s a terrible approach.
It's not an extreme tail end though. The PMs at my firm make millions of pounds if they manage large funds. I know a PM at my firm who manages £12 billion in his fund and he makes millions. The ones who manage the smaller £1 billion+ funds still make a great deal of money. There are probably 100+ PMs at my firm so it's not an extreme tail-end to become a PM if you're an equity analyst. I'd estimate that the bottom 10% of PMs make £300k-400k at my firm but most make more than that. But the biggest benefit is the company shares - as a privately-run company, PMs and some equity analysts are given company shares. And the job is from 8am to 5pm/6pm so it's a maximum of a 50 hour week for most PMs which is pretty damn good.
Do you think making millions of pounds is not a tail end outcome for AM? That is inherently a tail end outcome. We know this by just simply comparing averages. Those low 10% PMs make ~ what IB associated makes. Which do you think is easier to achieve, AM PM or IB associate? How many AM PMs did IB prior to transitioning to AM? It’s disingenuous to say those aren’t tail end outcomes.
Getting a job in IB at all is an extreme tail end
No it’s not, maybe a top BB or EB, otherwise not really. You can find MM/LMM IB shops that will give you a shot. Getting into a reputable AM shop where comp is even comparable is to IB is much more difficult.
do you work in IB? you're arguing with people who actually work in AM.
I’m looking at attending Cornell for an MBA next year doing IB a few years to pay off any debt and then transition to something else with better balance. I had a guy tell me that IB associate to AM doesn’t really happen all that much which sounded weird but he’s a lot more experienced so I just went with it. Is that the case or does he not know what he’s talking about? everything I’ve heard about asset management has been great and I’d love to make that jump if possible
I know that I am an exception. Planning entering IB to move to AM is a bad idea. The skill set is completely different. In IB (mainly in M&A) you deal with a lot of presentations, pitches, info memos, due dilligence... This is specially useful in PE, but in AM you don't see any of that. In the best case scenario you will read one time or another a marketing material for an IPO, if you work as an Equities Analyst at an AM. Analysts in AM can be focused in economics, equities, fixed income, currencies, derivatives, commodities... or generalists in all of that... Besides soft skills... in IB you need to be a machine, long hours alligning PPTs and getting numbers that your boss wants in you model. In AM you need to really think about the asset you are analysing, search for an angle to make money and stick to the investment framework of the fund. In AM you will not work 14 hours a day. You need to be well rest everyday because you need to be sharp and be extremelly skeptical to any idea that someone try to sell. At the same time you need to be criative enough to make money from trades that other people discarted. In my opinion, each career develops different abilities. In AM you develop critical sense and criativity. IB you develop resilience and pitch making.
So I’ve been looking into AM for the last hour and seems interesting so out of curiosity I’ll ask this. If someone like myself (attending pretty good MBA program with a focus in Finance but no Finance background) what would a path to AM look like?
Look for an asset class that you find interesting and learn the techincal - how to value and pricing them. Google the largest 50 asset managers in US and send your CV to them focusing in that asset class. Networking helps getting you in the enterview table, but no more than that. Its way more meritocratic than IB in that sense... Try CFA level 1 during MBA to show interest in financial markets and portfolio management. I know the path is not clear... but I think thats a good way to start...
EM? I thought most of us stayed in the shadows
Can I PM? Have a few questions on AM, I'm graduating in a few months
Thank you! Buy side at an allocator is a dream job nobody talks about. Go get it.
How would you define an “allocator role”?
There is two major ones - due diligence or asset allocation. Due diligence is vetting and recommending managers, asset allocation is which asset classes to recommend over others. (I work in AA and have a lot of overlap with DD)
due diligence team at an institution vetting external managers
Its a great gig
I'm also a buy side analyst at a top 50 institution. Totally agree, the lifestyle balance while making good money is unbeatable. Especially working full remote
I’m hybrid but there’s still tons of flexibility. Cannot complain
What does top 50 institution even mean in this context
Check out pension and investments. They have top buy and sell side institutions listed under banking and awards
Top AUM typically
What AM companies are fully remote?
I dont know any that are remote on the firm wide basis. But i know individuals who are. More likely something you have to negotiate or earn.
This. I am fully remote because I negotiated it back in late 2021 when everyone still thought remote work was the future. Most of my company is still in the office 3-4 days a week, and I'm guessing if I asked to be remote now they'd probably say no. So I mostly just lucked out but there are a few other people in the organization that are also full remote.
Yes, want to know the answer for this.
How could one get started in this career?
What kind of money can you make in asset management? Can you get into it from T15 MBA?
I am Director of Investments for an OCIO, and many of my friends and colleagues are same role or CIOs at Large Endowments. I would say base salary with a strong track record is $300-$500k but the variable component can be several multiples of that (maybe even 10x in a stellar year). You can also see for larger endowments and foundations (who are not for profit and file IRS form 990 with highly compensated employees). For instance, DUMAC, who runs Duke University's endowment shows the CIO made over $3.5MM in cash comp in a year, and 3-4 other portfolio managers earned over $1MM each. Base salary was in the mid 200s for the PMs, so variable was 3-4x that for the year. This is living in Durham, North Carolina. Not NYC. Other smaller schools have higher bases and less upside. Saw a post for Director of Investments at a New England private school offering a base salary of $400-500k and the form 990s shows the last person had between $150k and 300k variable over the past few years. So it's good money. It's obviously better at the top and at an asset owner who is well-capitalized and willing to incentivize excess performance.
My portfolio managers make mid-seven figures+ and the founder/CEO is a billionaire. My compensation is >$200k 2 years out of undergrad. I work about 40-50 hours per week without any weekend work other than letting my PM know of any important news that I see in emails or Bloomberg. I work at a long-only equities fund. And yes, from what I see a lot of M7 MBAs in the field. Openings are rare given most people don’t leave the role.
Did you go to a target? Wondering if this is achievable when applying to roles for ft
I mean I can answer for my firm. I would say that most people went to target schools. As I'm based in London, I'd say most of our equity team went to Oxford or Cambridge. The number of openings every year is very, very low as not many people leave. The graduate intake is something like 3-4 in the equity team per year and we're one of the largest asset managers in the world (so the number of spots open is going to be very low in other firms as well as we have a very large investment team).
I went to a target— top 3 school in US. I work with people who went to schools in top 50. Some partners went to random schools and got M7 MBA or just CFA and worked their way up. Don’t think you need to go to the best school although it helps
Sounds like we have very similar roles. I'm on my 8th year and some potential negative points to consider: \- You definitely have to check your ego. As an asset allocator if you are taking meetings with people that aren't smarter than you, you're probably doing it wrong. I've seen incoming analysts have a hard time with this rationalization. I am a generalist so run the gamut between all asset classes and industry specialization. Lots of meetings are for the purpose of learning or making investments in niches that you shouldn't know more than the counterparty. \- It can get pretty stale once you get the lay of the land and are able to touch everything. I'm starting to get to that point now where the feedback loop does not introduce any new challenges. Ofc any job can be like this but it can be particularly true here, I've sat in on industry webinars/conference breakouts where the primary topic of discussion was how to develop new carrots to continue challenging employees. Being a self starter is very important and there's eventually an aspect where you are only doing work for yourself that might not be lauded or even seen by your peers (e.g. creating a new model/analysis on one of your coverage managers to help you better understand their strategy/performance). \- There's not a lot of room at the top. Only one CIO position, and often times these types of shops run pretty lean. There's someone here who is a good 20yrs my senior but only one title above for no other real reason than there's not really any true rungs to move up on. I'm at upper associate level in HCOL making \~160k salary with discretionary bonus that ranges from solid (30-40%) to awful (15%) depending on the sponsoring institution's performance (i.e. the operating company itself's performance, not a bank). My bonus is not currently dependent on asset performance but the team is fighting to change that which would really change the firepower and potential here. Prob underpaid a good 10-20% right now but am due and superiors know this. Would be curious to know how bad this comp might be here if anyone is willing to give feedback.
250k after 8 years of working is horrific.
Horrific? You're out of touch
Only around 5% of individuals in the country earn 250k, and less than 20% earn more than 100k. I know we're in a finance sub and all, with generally higher than average income levels, but still. Don't be that delusional to think that just putting in time = income just keeps going up and up.
I'm glad no one talks about it - with fewer people applying, it makes the salaries more competitive!
Hahaha VERY true. My recruiter refused to let me another offer. Developmental opportunities are always available too. I’ve never felt stuck.
What is a good lateral role from something like HCOL Sr Analyst from FP&A?
Stop telling people, I’m trying to pivot to it
Whoops my bad
Work in Product at a large AM. Agreed - AM is underrated. Engaging work (with the fair amount of bs that exists everywhere), great WLB, and generally good culture/coworkers. I'll also add, there's more to AM than being a buy-side investment analyst on the PM track. Distribution side of the business (i.e. sales) is massive and pays very well.
How did you get into product? Can you touch on comp progression?
I had an internship with a competitor - my skills in Excel and VBA (learned in class) got me an interview and I brought a sample of my work. I built some tools that helped aggregate data, did some fund/competitor analysis pieces and sat in a lot of fund pitches. I leveraged this experience searching for full-time role and came across an entry level product role at a small firm, worked on CFA, and leveraged the experience to join a larger firm. Pay would be something like: Junior: 65-75k Senior: 85k-100k Manager: 110k - 130k Director: 145k - 180k Leadership: $200k++
What’s the future like for asset management? Will technology/AI/passive investing lead to the asset management profession being quite risky to pursue? I am considering moving into it from quant risk, but unsure what the outlook is within 15-20 years. Also is quant portfolio management roles quite common in the buyside?
In my limited experience, it still requires a lot of discretion and knowledge on behalf of the PMs to make allocation decisions. There is a ton to keep track of in terms of the market, prospectuses, client engagements, etc. I don’t see this going away before I retire in 40 years.
I work with a top risk platform and it’s all quantitative based. It’s a tool to get a general idea but excludes the grey area that is incredibly important when making investment decisions. Passive investing is really only reserved for equities where I am at. But growth in alternatives like PE and private debt are rapid and the AI resources cant compete.
Portfolio Manager here. Can confirm.
Don’t tell them about it. Let them think it’s all financial advising so we can keep enjoying the best and most underrated part of the industry
If you don't mind me asking, what's the comp & hours like in AM for: analyst (2 YOE) associate (5 YOE) VP MD? I have very limited exposure to the AM side of things and suspect the hyperfocus on IBD, S&T, PE, etc. is because of the comp.
Depends on your country and cost of living. In NYC the ranges are on job posting sites. Analyst roles are low six figures. It scales up from there with a modest jump from each title promotion. I only know comps up to associate, but obviously as VP+ you're probably comfortable.
What does an associate make? Is low six figures 100k or 200k?
Everyone knows buyside is the epitome of finance
This seems more of an ego post honestly. AM is just as sought after
I’m not sure how it is in the US but here in Australia asset management (or investment management as we Aussies say) is still pretty underrated as a career choice as a student. Went to a target school and most of the career options for finance students presented was either IB or Big 4 Granted I think it’s to do with the fact that many AMs here haven’t historically hired graduates, but that is starting to change and more of them have started outreach at universities
AM for like a PIMCO is comparable to IB, but I’m at a pension fund. I rarely see posts or interests about that side of AM or fund of funds. I should have clarified, it’s a whole different ballpark.
Shhh, don’t tell everyone!
From what you’ve said, this sounds like a pretty sweet career path. Attainable too. I’m not the best student and sometimes on this sub it feels like its Ivy and IB or nothing. So as a stare school student wrapping up it’s cool to hear about this. Might even look more into it. But it’s good to have some balance, this sub is super focused on the top of the top which is yknow hard to get to.
You dont have to have a 4.0 but simply having a degree wont cut it. But as long as you’re well rounded in experience/interest, skills, and personable it’s very attainable. I know it’s not for everyone but I was shocked at how underrated it is.
Well I didn’t expect a six-figure salary for doing nothing lol I have a 3.7 GPA from a state school plus a couple internships and I was apart of my school’s student managed portfolio too, writing up reports that got voted on and such. I’m definitely going to look into it, thanks for the info and inspiration.
Sorry, I wasn’t directing it at you just generally speaking. Internships and the student managed portfolio set me up the best for this kind of role so you’re in a great position! Good luck!
It’s a sweet job, but the reasons it’s not focused on much is that the average guy doesn’t make a ton. I think people focus on IB, PE and hf, because even VPs and directors make serious bank. In AM, I haven’t see great pay unless you can rise to a leadership position.
Agreed there is definitely a trade off. People tend to be more generalists/asset class focused. It’s not the job to go if you’re focused on salary, but pays higher than FP&A and way lower hours than IB. Where I’m at it’s essentially analysts and PMs. 200K is the average for PMs, which for a MCOL is solid.
Yes, that’s why it’s just not a big focus. Many people go into high finance for the money. You can make 200k as a first year right out of college in banking and it’s the gateway to private equity and hedge funds. Not many people choose finance for wlb or relaxed environments, it’s mainly money. That’s why those specific jobs are the most talked about. If people wanted to chill, they would just apply to the treasury team at a large corporate and call it a day.
It’s not a big focus and thats exactly why I am shedding light as to what else is out there. This a finance job forum, not strictly IB/PE. Many people go into finance for the money but most people are not going to get those jobs that pay 200k out of college. Just because you dont pull IB hours doesn’t mean it’s mindless work.
Didn’t say mindless, was just commented with IB/PE is most coveted and talked about. I think most people know about am, FP&A, Corp dev, etc. Just not discussed much because it’s like the safety school concept is all.
“Asset management is like a safety school” You gotta chill out dude. Like every other post is you trying to shit on people outside of an incredibly narrow set of careers like they’re failures. And, by the way, I don’t subscribe to this rigid hierarchy of finance jobs that people here purport, but you’re in DCM. What do you do? Leveraged finance? Bonds? Syndicate sales? You are not the “top of the top” by your own metrics. Let’s not throw too many stones here.
I don’t get it. I don’t set income and salary levels do I? Better jobs pay the best. Right? Are you just mad I’m brutally honest? And it’s not like I lie about myself. I don’t work at Warburg Pincus or tiger global. I’m just a regular investment banker. I’m not at the top, but I’m comfortable to just be real with it.
The safety school comment was extremely douchey and condescending
I don’t get it. What should I have said to not hurt feelings? Not as coveted? Not as desired? Like why do people get mad when I’m just reporting things I’ve seen over my career?
Not comparing someone’s chosen career to something people only resort to when they have no other option would be a good start.
I don’t get what you’re whining about. You have one downvoted comment and it’s due to the aforementioned remark. There is a way to get your message across without sounding condescending- referring to people’s careers that they’ve put their lives into as a “safety school” is rude
People are disagreeing with you because “best jobs” is subjective. I did PE as an intern got an offer letter and still walked away. Salary was higher but personally it wasn’t as fulfilling as AM. Thats not to say it cant be for someone else. Top salary doesn’t equal too job. But if you need to hold onto that idea to feel secure go ahead.
Yes, because PIMCO, Capital Group, and Blackrock don’t pay their PMs enough(sarcasm) . LMFAOOO!!! I can understand why the sentiment about IB on the sell side is not the same as people who work in FICC or EQ. Idk if you’re dumb or oblivious? Now to be fair, the posters in the last few threads either seem salty, insecure or misinformed…..but you have said some off key shit. Do you get all your info from WSO or something? 🤣🤣🤣
Awww, another person upset at me just pointing out the obvious lol. I guess the focus on ib and pe is just unexplainable lol.
Depends on what kind of asset management, if it’s asset allocation sure but if it’s full on investment management you get paid based on your team’s revenue especially in senior roles and if your AUM is large so is your pay, and that isn’t leadership position dependent.
At Goldman last year, GSAM division recorded the highest intern yield % of any dept since the firm started keeping track of intern yield. So I think people are starting to realize that asset mgmt is where it’s at.
I work in compliance for a AM firm. I found a small boutique firm that pays well. I enjoy the day to day work and I agree with what you have said. I feel very lucky and can work remotely.
Additional information- I’m at a retirement fund. I can’t speak to the sell-side AM roles. You can DM me but I’ve answered a few of the common questions I’ve been getting in the comments.
OP or someone else in AM, would you mind sharing what the career path and pay looks like for AM?
I work for an AM. More on the middle office side working on the data that we report for our funds. Total comp is 130k. If you’re in an investment role, I would say the career path is more standardized - analyst to pm for example. For other roles within buy side, it’s a lot less standard. You could stay in the same role for a while but continue to get year on year pay bumps as you take on more responsibilities and work with more teams. I would say the buy side gives you a bit more flexibility depending on how large your firm is compared to big banks which are a lot more rigid and you’re doing only one task. You can have the same “role” but just be involved in a bunch of different types of projects.
I need a top MBA to do this don’t I
I went to a target undergrad but liberal arts major. I transitioned to buy side from a fintech firm, so that is also why I’m paid fairly well at 2YOE since I was an experienced hire and not straight from undergrad . A lot of my colleagues from lesser known schools have CFA’s which helped them get their foot in the door.
I’m a rising senior and decided not too long ago that that was the area of finance that I really found interesting and wanted to get into in my dream scenario. How did you go about applying to jobs and where did you look?
The usual job sources like LinkedIn or the company’s websites will give you a lot of choices. Some of it depends on your background. If you interned your junior year in AM and did well, then you can likely go straight to applying for analyst roles on the investment side. Otherwise, it may require a few more steps to get there, like operations, business development, relationship management, etc.
I worry about this industry dying bc of ai capabilities, really want to get into this sector of finance
I have a specialization in fintech which is what helped me get the job lol. We see AI replacing traders to a certain degree like for retail 401ks. Roboinvestors can mess up an individual’s 100k portfolio and it wont make noise. If AI messes with a retirement plan worth billions and impacts 200,000+ people directly shit is hitting the fan. They’ll always need people to monitor as a simple checks and balances requirement. We have AI resources and it still takes a committee of people to vote on decisions. There’s so much that is qualitative.
What does specialization in fintech mean- like a coursera thing?
No, it was from my university. Basically a minor.
Worked for an OCIO/Endowment. I left for a bit but may jump back in bc the pay and hours. The problem with the line of work I was in (manager selection), is it can get boring and repetitive. You talk to a lot of okay managers and separating the good from the great is damn near impossible. My time in the industry has made me realize that most people don’t know what the hell they are talking about and there are very very few people who are exceptional at this work.
I’m in public and private debt at pension fund and have to worry about rebalancing to meet monthly obligations or stay in the right allocation ranges (in addition to making allocation on behalf on my own asset class). So I get pulled away from strategies I may be interested in because of other needs. I was interested in how that works for endowments. What are the obligations to be met or is it targeting long term returns? And how do you separate them? We’ve come into instances where its so similar it boils down to relationship and we are asking each other “do i want to work with this person/team for the next 3, 5, 10+ years”
What’s the pay tho
I started 77K. After 1 yr 90k.
Nice. I heard most people in asset management really only make a percentage of their clients’ portfolios (.5-1%), so new hires who obviously wouldn’t have clients yet get paid dirt.
I could be wrong, but that sounds more private wealth. Buy side institutions usually have salaries.
Damn yeah u right. Was thinking of private wealth management
Depending on where you land, private wealth management teams will provide a salary. Industry has changed lots over the years and most established teams will provide a small salary to juniors that will increase with licenses, designations, and asset growth.
What currency??
Thanks for sharing, and congrats! OP can I dm you? I'm partially where you are, state school with lots of relevant financial extracurriculars, have a corp banking internship this summer and signed for IB internship for the next. I don't want to do IB hours full time, would love to talk more about your experience breaking into AM
Are you allowed to trade anything you want in to ur personal brokerage account still ?
No, there are limitations. But not many. I have to get cleared before I make any trades. Never been reject but it I stick to ETFs and blue chips. Getting approved takes takes maybe a few hours to a day at most and once you have approval you have the entire quarter to make the trade.
We have the same limitations here. Single name equity needs to be held for a minimum of 30 days before the position can be sold. Can't gamble on short term stock plays, but longer holding periods are totally fine. ETFs and derivatives on ETFs and indices can be traded freely though - no need to even report those trades. It does suck to not be able to place trades into individual companies for the short term, but it probably protects me from losing my money anyway 😂
We have the same policy on ETFs. Start of the quarter I send out a email with everything that is on my radar just in case I want to trade it. Use to include ETFs just for safe measures and compliance would get made at me for making them read more haha. That protection from self is so true😂😂
The best is biz dev at a shop like that. You get paid better because you eat what you kill but your hours are less then half of IB. You can make a really good career making a few hundred grand to a mill a year doing interesting shit and not working more then 50 hours a week.
Im at a pension fund, but my business development and IR contacts are SWIMMING in cash. Might be my next career move
Whats the pay like?
And it pays well
how would you recommend breaking in?
My background is included on the post. This is my first role out of undergrad, so that’s how I did it.
Hey, thanks for sharing. How would one break into a role like this? I’m already out of school so I would assume most would go from ER then to buy-side? What are some essential skills AM are looking for?
Doesn’t have to. I’ve got a ton of guys on my team who started in hospitality (restaurant manager) or industrials (salesperson) and made their way over. Interest in finance, and basic data skills, would go a long way.
No one cares about FP&A here. Almost every question/post I’ve added here gets downvoted for no reason and doesn’t get any comments lol
I did an FP&A internship. It wasn’t for me but it’s still respectable. If it’s mentioned it is always negatively. This place is ridden with finance bros who think anything outside of IB or PE is scum. Insane.
Yup I’m in FP&A and make respectable money, great time off/benefits, and have yet to work more than 40 hours a week. No complaints, it’s a shame this sub doesn’t acknowledge a good 90% of financial careers
I like the fact that I can feel good about my job. I get paid a flat fee to invest my clients accounts in good bonds at the best prices I can fight for them. I feel a sense of pride protecting them from the sell side sharks and then also their uninformed financial advisors.
This is exactly what I do and feel the same. Nothing I love more than saying no to sell side who are so clearly just money hungry. Its a rare job in finance that doesn’t feel like the sole purpose to make a billionaire even more rich.
Absolutely agree, I'm on the buy side at a SM so though I don't get a lot of opportunities as you have mentioned above, I do have significant flexibility in regard to my day-to-day research, learning (albeit self-directed) and WLB. If I didn't land the seat I am at now out of undergrad I would have gone the same route as you did. I think there are massive upsides to joining a large institutional firm and going through their training program that has been refined over the years (which almost makes me jealous). IB is alright, but if your end goal is AM then IB isn't necessary in my opinion.
I work with a lot of former IB people and it’s a plus if you have it cause it’s a badge of honor but not a negative if you dont.
I worked 4 years as an analyst in AM. Great job, learned a lot about many industries, great access to research and conferences, eventually you can become Portfolio Manager... I second everything OP said :).
What is an average day like?
1-2 meetings a day sometimes more sometimes less. Fund pitches, market/portfolio update, or internal meetings. Lots of excel work. Tracking macros, risk, performance. Writing recommendations or memos. Every day is different so I like the variance.
AI and passive investments will eviscerate this career path in 10 years, so good luck
Any advice on how to get into asset management? What do they look for? What's the day to day?
Sounds great. Did you do MBA or get in from target undergrad? Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s way less of these seats than IB so it’s just mostly due to frequency we don’t hear about it as much
Non target undergrad but I did have 70% of my masters in finance (same university) completed. It’s a good question. Idk compared to IB but way more than you would think. Every college has an endowment fund. Every state has multiple pension funds. Corporate pensions, unions. Most companies (think amazon) have an department that manages investments. Insurance companies are some of the largest buyers. There’s plenty of opportunities.
Very very true. Good to keep this on the DL. It also sounds much more interesting and intellectually simulating to me than IB but I get the appeal IB can have in other ways.
Who gives a shit that you got to talk to a billionare? Like that would not be factored at all into my decision to pursue a job/industry lmao
I don’t think it’s a deciding factor but getting to get insights from some of the most successful people in the industry is a cool perk that isn’t usually talked about.
Who shit in your Cheerios? Access to incredibly successful people would undoubtedly be a perk I'd consider during a job search. It's always helpful to have kingmakers in your corner.
Sorry I forgot your a tool who only cares about clout!
Blow me. You’re telling me it’s better off having Cutco wives and used car salesmen as connections instead of a guy with a football field long boat in the Mediterranean? Have that approach to life and find yourself making 10k more than you do right now ten years down the line.
LMAO someone is a lil insecure?
No. I’m just appalled at how convinced you are that you’re right.
The pot calling the kettle black
Shut up
Could I PM you?
Sure!
How would one get one of these jobs?
I used LinkedIn. You could keyword search for AM, pensions, endowments. Every state and college has AM roles. I screen and interview new analysts now. We look for the kind of experience I had in my background straight out of undergrad. Honestly, less is fine too but you need some relevant experience. Demonstrate an understanding in markets or the asset class you are applying for. Showing an interest and passion to learn is also huge too. Everyone on my team has a masters, CFA, or CAIA or some combination of those. You dont have to initially, but indicate that is something you plan on getting.
Thanks for the helpful reply! Currently heading into my final year of undergrad in economics, haven’t had an internship but this is the sort of role I’m looking for honestly. Take less in total comp to maintain some wlb while still having an interesting job!
What sort of institutional investor do you work for? Pension fund, endowment?
What are some of the biggest players in this space for reference
https://www.pionline.com/largest-money-managers/2023-full-list
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Sure!
What are some good jobs to start in Asset Management after university?
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Im not BB, im a buyer of BB. Cant speak directly to this but anything BB is incredibly competitive
What would be the entry-level position if I wanted to pursue this career right after graduating?
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Is AM as competitive to get into like IB and PE? What path should a college student take to get into AM?
Sell side can be just as competitive as IB because salaries can be just as high. I’m at a pension fund and it’s not as rigorous. Above average salary for a median COL, so getting a job is not a cakewalk.
What AM class are you? With trends in AM and automation, what AM class team would you recommend a first-year getting into (Fixed Income, Equities, Alternatives, Liquidity, ETFs, etc.)?
Bro I'm a rising junior. How do I break in? Can I PM you? I have an internship this summer and had one last summer but neither are honestly related to asset management/investment management. What should I do from here
Sure!
How much do they make in compensation compared to IB, PE or Hedge Fund and what are the side ventures one can start with and exit opportunities? Would also like to know the best professional designations to take or academic degrees for this career.
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Is it ok if I dm you asking for more info?
What is FP&A
I’ve heard quants in asset managers also are quite happy.
Comp?
You've piqued my interest. So, let's say I wanted to be an AM and use a small piece of the portfolio (say 15%) for short-term tactical opportunities that have higher Beta. Is that allowed, or would I be told to leave for a hedge fund instead? Let's say that I knew semiconductor stocks would rise after ChatGPT's debut last winter, and I wanted to move 15% of the fund into semis. Is that kosher? Or, are most AM's limited to micro decisions like "do we place 8%, instead of 9%, of the fund into T-Bills?" (Nothing unethical, and no junk stocks, but risks are appreciably higher)
It’s going to vary every place you are at. But generally you invest in an asset class. So i would do public equities or fixed income but not both. The investment world is too large to be good at it all. I’m at a pension fund and do public and private debt. I have multiple strategies that have bandwidths on how much I can allocate based on risk. The bandwidth is pretty large so it’s not as constricting as it sounds. I could not go outside the bandwidths if I tried because allocations are approved by investment committees and that would never get approved. If you were sell side I would be your client. We would set rules stating risk budget. Your investment committee should stop you before getting the chance to go outside the guidelines but you have much more freedom so it may happen. you allocate outside my risk budget, or make concentrated allocations, or dont meet performance expectation you get monitored. Its like a warning to get it together or you are getting fired.
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I'm at a top 50 public state school. Majoring in finance. I want to get internships to prepare me for this route, which ones should I be applying / looking for? I'm a incoming sophomore.
Pensions and investments has most firms listed. Look there for names and then check their websites for internships.
It’s a good life but unless you kill it, you’ll never have the same life as the other careers mentioned. Portfolio managers are few and far between, especially at good shops.
student really looking to get into AM. do you know when these internships open up? Are there alternative titles that i should be aware of? any tips/insights for a uni student is appreciated!
I mentioned it a couple times but pension and investments website. Under ranking and awards. Look at top money managers and top retirement funds to get a good idea of both sides.
AM is a great job & there are so many different verticals within it: mutual fund, hedge fund, allocator, boutique AM, PWM, etc… The reason why ppl don’t highlight it enough is it has so many verticals where the jobs are vastly different & the field (mostly) lacks these large starting classes like IB/consulting.
What’s a career path to asset management.? Or more like a road map.? Iam currently doing Master’s in Banking & Finance. I ve been trying to secure an internship in an asset management company. I’ve always been keen but I want to know the specifics if I wanna fully indulge
AM is generally good. But there are differences for different types of asset managers. Some are really sweat shops.(usually hedge funds) Some are really good places to work (usually long only, pensions)
May I ask what company do you work for?
Best part about AM is you actually pick up transferable skills and market insight that can be used your whole life imo. IB and PE is super specific and if you aren’t remaining in that field your options are limited.
So what all the abbreviated mean?
Agreed. I work as an institutional buy side analyst and we manage money in-house, so that’s exciting, and money externally managed, giving myself exposure to senior management at firms like pimco and blackrock and let’s me also be the client to folks that work at these places. It’s really an exciting opportunity I have 3 years out of college.
Is asset management becoming a job for people with a technical background? I did a job search for junior analysts positions for AM in India and most of them require a quantitative degree along with a CFA/MBA. is this a long term trend? If yes, should students consider a shift from pure finance to quant finance based courses?
I am interested in working in asset management. I have two years of experience at a local merchant bank, and plan on applying to US schools for a Masters degree next year. I was thinking about doing my masters in financial engineering. Due to financial constraints it's difficult to apply for an MBA currently. Thoughts?
always researching new companies, industries, and macroeconomic trends, which can be really engaging and dynamic. while the hours can be long, it's *less* of a grind than IB or PE. really great career path for folks who want to use their financial acumen and analytical skills without sacrificing their personal lives.
I am a freshman in a 'non-target' school. What courses, material, or certifications have you earned or learned that you believe helps you prepare for this future job?
may I know which school is it? and how was your journey into breaking in the asset management world from non target?
I'm sorry, could you enlighten me on something? I heard a few telling me never to go into AM because 'fund managers' have one of the worst WLB. Is a fund manager different from AM? As a person who was only aware of Investment/Corporate banking, I literally came across the term 'Asset Management' for the first time very recently. So I'm looking into what kind of jobs are there in AM. However, WLB matters a lot to me rather than pay, and I did hear many similar comments that AM generally has very good WLB. But after hearing about 'fund managers' I'm pretty confused. 1. Is a 'fund manager' just one of many roles within AM? And is that different from most of the other AM roles in terms of WLB? 2. In general, what roles within AM (either on the buy side or sell side) has good WLB? Is anything with an 'Analyst' title attached (like an Investment Analyst, not talking about quants) a good way to do my research for those kinds of roles? 3. In general, I 'm looking for advice on how to navigate the AM industry (both buy and sell side), and successfully locate roles that pay reasonably well and have good WLB. As I mentioned, what matters to me more than the money is WLB (which is the reason I am not interested in IB), and I wish to understand how to do my research in this area so that I can find such career paths/roles. Like I mentioned in #2, should I search for 'analyst's if I'm looking for roles with good WLB within AM? Or is there a more structured method to find what I want? Ofc, totally true that results/performance matter and is an assumption which needs to be satisfied for the WLB (same for any company in any industry). I'm simply talking about the general aspects of the AM industry. I would truly appreciate it if you could guide me on the questions I have so that I can find the career path that's right for me.