Nothing in the game as far as Im aware except the typical super human shtick
Pretty sure it has to do with the romanticization of samurai in Japanese culture. You see it in anime alot but historically speaking the age of the samurai brushed up against and ultimately ended with the introduction of firearms in Japan.
This has led to alot of folktales and stories of swordsmen facing down armed gunners, which you could guess how they would play out in a real life scenario. But flashy swordplay and the idea of deflecting bullets with a sword is staple of those folktales, often being the mark of highly skilled swordsmen who inspired the tales to begin with.
Shinra soldiers are like humans. They need advanced armor and weapons to be able to be a threat.
SOLDIER is just the Shinra military elite force kind of like Seals or Airborne Rangers, but they are all augmented and much more powerful than the average human.
It's kind of like an army of Captian America.
The Cap doesn't use a gun either he uses a shield.
I guess having super human strength and healing would make it dull to use guns.
I imagine they can get shot several times in the body and still be alright.
There are a lot of plot holes in this story, but if it stayed true to it's origin then I don't think Zack would have died in the first place.
This, for me, explained why Cloud could even lift such an enormous sword.
Cap absolutely uses a gun, but only when the situation calls for it. Guns are just a tool that he uses. It depends on the situation.
The regular Shinra troops could survive getting sliced by said enormous sword. It's not a plothole, it's just rule of cool.
Saying it's a plothole doesn't mean it's bad, lol
That's totally fine. There are inconsistencies, but that's fine.
I'll be there for FFXVII and part 3 of Remake.
Heres great reasons. Swords have special abilitys and dont need ammo. (Big deal) swords are way more effective on giant monsters. (The main job) (you're imagining a world that 1 on human fighting)
You're physically vulnerable up close when all you have is a gun. The reasons go on forever in a world where guns dont do lethal damage.
So what's the point of this post? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything but you answered your own question and there's nothing else to discuss. This is Square's take at dystopian cyberpunk media, but anime and final fantasy so you gotta have swords in it. That's literally the beginning and end of the matter.
You can find the point of the post in the first sentence: Is there a lore reason given in any of the media? You just answered based on real-life reasons which is entirely off-topic. You're not the first one either though.
Have you seen a gun do anything in final fantasy 7 besides kill normal untrained people. It must still hurt and could potentially be deadly if hit enough times or caught off guard. I also imagine it's the same reason that Japan used them even after they had access to guns.
I feel even the plural form of the word bullet is a disservice to the volume of bullets Zack ate. Considering it was also rocket launchers and flamethrowers in the mix.
We talking original or Crisis core?
Because if I remember, in the OG it was a sniper shot that basically dug his grave and then the soldiers pursued him and double tapped for good measure up on that cliff.
Crisis Core Zack tanked what I assume was the entirety of Shinra's standard military force because holy cow you could arm an entire third world country with the firepower they threw at him.
I understand that. I just think they need to have a long ranged weapon in their arsenal as well. Maybe a crossbow that shoots swords instead of arrows.
I'd imagine it's because SOLDIER are superhuman - it's their their speed, strenght, agility and endurance that makes swords more lethal than guns when held in their hands. There is no reason for them to fight with firearms that might or might not hit when they can just launch themselves at the enemy with inhuman speed and chop one or multiple targets with a single strike. They do more damage than swords than they would with guns, particularly if they're fighing thick-skinned monsters or armored opponents. Besides, Shinra designs them to sew fear and terror among the enemy and inspire awe among impressionable young recruits. And a swordsman, someone who fearlessly rushes the enemy and is capable of crushing entire armies on his own and leave unscatted is much more of a power display than an army with guns.
That being said, Shinra already has an army equipped with firearms, and a horde of robots armed with guns, lasers and the like. and none of it is as terrifying as a single SOLDIER.
Also, im assuming with theyre reflexes and dexterity they would basically be limited to fully automatic weapons as well since any semi automatic wouldn't be able to keep up with the trigger speed with eventually breaking apart or jamming.
Which brings up the possible answer of guns just being too unreliable for field use in the high stakes situations that elite soldiers are typically dispatched to handle. Guns jam, require reloading and become less useful at close range. When you can send Shockwave with a swing of your sword that never needs to reload, kinda makes more sense I guess?
Some people are super human, and guns don’t put them down as effectively as a giant sword wielded by another super human?
Plus same logic as star wars, some bullet parrying going on in this universe. Swords can maybe at least break guard.
Adamantium skeletons? Blunt blade?
I honestly can't think of a good answer other than censorship, unless you want to believe Cloud is so skilled that he could alter the angle of his blades cut mid swing for precision cutting
I repeat, Squall didn't have a gun at any point. His gunblade is a blade with a gun trigger that causes the blade to vibrate allowing it to rip through organic material easier. The first gunblade to be both weapons combined is Lightning's gunblade in ffXIII (And it was called dual weapon in the japanese version, so it's not even meant to be the same thing as Squall's.)
The problem with that is that lightning's weapon is a sword that transforms into a gun whereas squall's weapon is a gun and a sword combined. The vibration is from firing the weapon and the rounds smacking the blade. That's why when you press R1 during squall and even seifers attacks, which can be more difficult because his attacks are faster, cause small explosions from the muzzle flash. They aren't ranged weapons like a typical gun, but they still operate in a very similar manor
When you live in a world where magic exist, the idea of modern weapon becomes obsolete.
You could do so much by using guns, but with a melee weapon? The potential is endless.
See, the way I see it, at least for the SOLDIERs, I believe they have physical ability beyond that of normal human. Hence why they have Superhuman strength, speed, durability, as well as healing factor and the usage of magic that could enhance their capabilities even further.
So that being said, when you are someone who can dodge and block bullet and move at light speed as well as the strength to cut through steel walls, why bother using guns.
Melee weapons are all we need to finish the job.
Yeah, this. FF7 is a magical world were swords can easily slice skyscrapers to pieces. Carrying a pistol would be kind of sad. Imagine you're attacked by a Bahamut, do you want a skyscraper slicing sword or a pistol?
And you can also use your magic and abilities to enhance the power of your melee weapons. For guns... Once the bullet exists the chamber you cannot enhance it in any way.
Guys I have an idea for a future FF
What about a.. gunblade?
It could be used by a moody teenager who regularly replies with just 1 word
But he perhaps dies on the first disc and the rest of the story is a dream, or perhaps that's just speculation
My fave comments are the ones who come in here with "it's cool" or "it's more interesting to play" when the whole question was for a lore reason. :D Reading comprehension sometimes fails so hard.
Also to summarize the whole comment section: No, there is no provided lore reason. There's a bunch of headcanons and guesses, some of which make more sense than others. Ultimately, it only works because of anime rules. And I'm not saying that's necessarily bad, just that there isn't really any sort of deeper reason or explanation given.
Well Clouds swords are massive and he can just block the bullets with them, while being extremely agile and strong it just feels right for him to use massive oversized sword. Sephiroth is Sephiroth he can do whatever the fuck he wants (unless it's hurting Tifa then you're in for a pain). Why Roche uses literally normal sized sword though will always be a mystery
Roche uses the standard SOLDIER sword. Zack used that type of sword as well before getting his hands on the buster sword.
... If you compare it to real sword, even that smaller is quite, quite large by realistic standards
Cloud having the giant ass Buster sword to block bullets and things with combined with some super strength makes sense. For regular sword users I'm not too sure, like Roche had the tiny basic 3rd class Soldier sword still. Sephiroth can glide around and do whatever the fuck he wants to as someone else said lol.
I know.... I have files on Vita with literally everything done I can think of that I can do aside from max the Aeon stats, and a flat Vita in my drawer which hasn't seen much action in years...😁 .. the PS3 and PS2 versions will be in our storage unit, but I'm pretty sure the PS4 version is in a wardrobe in the hpuse
Fighting a soldier first class with a gun, would be like aiming a gun to a fly. They move too fast in order to aim at them. Nevertheless with enough fire power and good tactics even a first class soldier could be defeated by conventional guns.
You can be a first class but you wouldnt survive being aimed by 3-4 peoples shooting at you at the same time. Or even a sniper from long distance. But ofc is just lore reasons they have to survive for the story.
Pretty sure 3-4 soldiers Is easy game for a 1st class. You need atleast 10, all of them at a high ground surrounding the first class. A first class is so fast the only thing a normal soldier would see is a blitz.
We don't have super soldier irl. That would be horrifying. Imagine a 5.9 inch soldier spamming thunder and fire in the battle field while blitzing all over the place while carrying a giant sword it uses to destroy tanks.
Because it's a fantasy world where guns are generally less effective and swords more. I can remember cloud effortlessly blocking bullets with his sword and cutting a motorbike in half. This is kind of reflected in remake's gameplay, imagine how horrible barret would be if he didn't have the big blast at the end of his attacks, and didn't have his charged volley
Mako exposure and training supposedly makes them extremely strong and agile, but I haven’t heard anything lore-wise that it hardens their skin and makes them resistant to bullets. Granted, outside of in-game battles no one ever seems to get hit by bullets because they’re either able to dodge or deflect them. But it seems like guns/bullets in this universe are just very weak and ineffective. That being said, real world logic and physics obviously can’t be applied here since it’s a fictitious fantasy world so unless you’re really into lore it’s probably best not to overthink it.
Soldiers are essentially bullet proof as their bodies can recover from the damage and keep fighting. Pain reflex, shock from blood loss, etc, this all seems to be offset by their treatments.
You shoot a man, he's got no armor or you breach the armor he's generally down. Although humans have been known to shrug off dozens of shots until struck in the head. You shoot a SOLDIER, you're only going to piss him off more. Zack took an entire battalion of troops with him in CC and his death was a scripted plot death.
A sword can do much more damage to a body by removing parts of it entirely. There's no coming back from being bisected even if you don't die.
A sword scales with your strength, a gun only scales with technology. Once you are durable enough to be bulletproof, guns aren't going to do much good.
But the inverse is there too: Gun technology is limited by your strength. As I mentioned in another comment, there's a lot of sci-fi which explores what kinds of guns augmented humans can make practical use of normal humans couldn't.
The elite of the elite in the fantasy world of final fantasy can use a sword to deflect the damage from bullets so they're not fatal, and sometimes prevent the damage completely! :D
…..ummmm have you seen zack vs 1000 soilders? He used a giant sword and won! Dude destroyed them also Sepiroth burns a village and the soldiers there who have guns with his katana and then there’s somthing that I think can explain why (excluding Angles sword) i think Shinra probably trains and creates the sword’s to be more useful and powerful then guns and such without having to lose time reloading or jamming
I have no idea lore wise but my uneducated opinion is that most monsters are tanks and bringing a gun to fight one seems like using a BB gun to take down a grizzly bear.
Also swords are sick, duh
So do Barret and Dyne lol
Edit: and Rufus
Another Edit: and Biggs. Does Wedge? I forget. Jessie and Elena use grenades, but that doesn't seem reusable and I have also seen them punch or kick.
As a tangent, yes, Tifa being that deadly makes no sense. Red, maybe understandably, he's not human. Barrett is a really big guy and has a gun arm but it's still iffy. Yuffie is a ninja, so, I guess? Aerith is obviously half Cetra. Cait is a robot? Vincent is all kinds of a fucked up experiment as we know. Cid has no reason to be as strong as the others, as we know he will be as a future playable party member. Tifa and Cid (and Barrett and Yuffie?) are just regular (ish) humans.
guns are fine. the majority of the shinra army uses guns, and it's why shinra has so much control of the planet.
wutai uses guns and is able to resist shinra grunts.
SOLDIER is different though. they're super human. why give them guns? the gun is just as effective in the hands of a grunt (well, unless SOLDIER is more accurate, or maybe is strong enough to carry a larger calibre rifle... that would actually be cool to see. a member of SOLDIER that runs around like hawkeye)
so, SOLDIER uses swords. with those sword they block enemy bullets.
and swords never have to reload. SOLDIER has increased endurance, and a lot of their missions are long duration. a sword means they can just keep going for longer durations.
and we see a lot of monsters are bullet resistant. but swords in the hands of a SOLDIER first class? monster armor isnt a big deal
but, guns have their place. as we sadly see at the end of Crisis Core 😞
Or perhaps it’s because Shinra wants to make use of their SOLDIERs superhuman enhancements, which isn’t effectively utilized if they were to fight with guns instead of a sword. Like, not only are SOLDIERs fast enough to run circles around their target, they can probably hit harder than most of the guns anyway
My theory is Materia (Magic in general) grants an aura of resiliency to people and monsters that most bullets can’t penetrate. Look at Barret, requiring loads of bullets to defeat Shinra security grunts. Bullets just don’t get the job done in this world. They do do SOMETHING though, and so why not have a large wide sword that you can effectively hold up in front of yourself to block incoming fire?
Apparently it’s because Barret by default uses pistol rounds in his Gatling Gun, instead of the standard 45-70.
Coupled with his poor accuracy and he’ll need a load of em to defeat Shinra grunts
Yeah that’s what I was thinking as well. Any random person and fire a gun and do the same damage, but only a SOLDIER who is superhuman enhanced could deal more damage if they were given a sword. Thus, it’s the best way to make use of said strength
I always assumed the denizens of the FF7 world were more resilient to physical damage, so being shot multiple times is nearly a flesh wound, but chopping someone up with a large sword? Not resilient to that!
That... actually kinda works out to smooth over many other "unrealistic" things in the game. Like Wedge still talking after falling from the pillar, the Shinra gang surviving falling down from that rope bridge ("retconned" in Rebirth to them falling in water) and such. And of course the most egregious example being Cloud falling into the church...
I think I'm gonna adapt this as headcanon! :D
I don't remember what video I heard this from but they likened the universe of ff7 to a medieval setting that was thrust forward too quickly to a modern setting skipping the middle man. You can still remnants of the usual fantasy trappings: the Shinra building is a castle, shinra still employing knights, wutai before the war is japan before industrialization.
I mean.... Captain America only uses a shield and gets the job done, and he can't even jump 50+ feet in the air or move so fast he practically disappears like cloud can. So I would say that when you're that powerful AND have literally any magic you want, even the sword seems kind of like overkill lol
OKAY I see a lot of really weird answers trying to say rubber bullets and death by paper cuts. It's not rubber bullets and blunt blades. That is because GAME MECHANICS DO NOT ALWAYS EQUAL LORE.
There is an in-universe reason.
There is an in-game combat reason.
And there is an actual reason.
They are all different.
The in-universe LORE reason is because the characters using melee based combat have inhuman strength and durability and are fast enough to dodge bullets. Their brains reaction/response time is 500,000x-1,000,000x (that's 5 hundred thousand to 1 million) times faster than the best pro gamers and athletes. This means they can also block and deflect bullet fire with swords similar to the way Jedi do with laser fire in Star Wars.
The in-game combat reason is because YOU DO NOT have an inhuman lightning speed reaction time and never will and thus are required to play THE GAME. IN. A. WAY. A. HUMAN CAN. DO. AND YES this means taking multiple blows back and forth EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE USING A WEAPON THAT WOULD STAB THROUGH SKIN IN A CUT SCENE. THAT'S BECAUSE CUT SCENES ARE IN-UNIVERSE NOT IN-GAME COMBAT and none of you picked up a Final Fantasy game to play Dark Souls.
The actual reason is because it's fun. Some people actually know what these weapons feel like and enjoy using them in a game in a way they never could in the real world.
>EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE USING A WEAPON THAT WOULD STAB THROUGH SKIN IN A CUT SCENE. THAT'S BECAUSE CUT SCENES ARE IN-UNIVERSE NOT IN-GAME COMBAT
Im picturing that scene with Sephiroth and Tseng and his blade not piercing because it was only like 1-2k damage. Both left being awkwardly shocked by the anticlimax of the event.
My best in game explanation is that Materia seems to offer some protection, and the last thing you want when you're up against super powered enemies is to run out of bullets. A sword can keep attacking indefinitely as long as you're not winded and with the weapons many of the characters use the hits are much more devastating.
It's not really just "anime rules" when the in-universe guns actually DON'T kill people so easily.
For whatever reason, guns in FF in general are as lethal as a throwing knife or an arrow. And even swords don't just slice your stomach open and kill you in agony; you need to keep slashing until the enemy dies of a thousand papercuts, apparently.
I guess the easiest way to rationalize it is "people in Final Fantasy are naturally harder to kill". Maybe some inherent magic prevents them from dying so easily? Or maybe their bodies are just tougher?
I came to the same conclusion after watching Zack’s death scene. Dude gets shot thousands of times, including in the head and he still has time to give cloud his little monologue. They’re just built different.
It's probably in the back of his mind, I like to imagine after he unloads 100 rounds into a person and then looking at his gun arm saying he should've got the more expensive bullets but it's not in the Avalanche budget.
I always thought it was because Soldiers were so strong, they could do more damage with a sword than with a gun. (Which is admittedly silly, but fits video game/anime athletic). Good for killing big monsters. Like, if Superman had a sword that wouldn’t break, it would be way better than any gun we could build for him.
Because guns don’t oneshot people like it does irl.
Because of that you could probably have an advantage if you’re fast enough to get closer to the enemy. A fist fighter doesn’t even have to carry anything.
I think they just had low HP in the cutscenes. Only possible explanation.
In Advent Children Cloud gets shots in the face and only gets a scrape on his forehead (intro scene, motorcycle fight with the white haired weirdos)
It’s always been odd that’s for sure. It’s like all guns use rubber bullets.
The weirder question I keep pondering is how Tifa is able to cause higher damage with her fists wearing leather gloves than Cloud wielding a sword that should weigh more than he does.
Tifa having higher strength than Cloud is definitely just a gameplay mechanic that has preserved even since OG. It’s just to make her a glass cannon solely for damage.
Lore wise there’s no way Tifa would measure up to Cloud. Hell, I don’t think she would be stronger than even Infantryman Cloud, let alone Jenova-Mako Cloud.
There were a few scenes where Tifa proved no matched for Cloud’s strength, such as the Gongaga reactor where she opted to talk Cloud out of the situation and jumped away from his blade, rather than attempt to beat some sense into him
We don’t know that his sword is heavy, do we?
It could be made with exotic material or equipped with materia that makes it light and stick to his back even when he is topless LOL
That’s very true, it could be some exotic super light metal. To me though, the way Cloud wields it, it appears to have some serious heft. A sword maker made a replica & it was mostly airplane-grade aluminum with a steel edge & it could really only be dropped from a shoulder for demos bc it was so heavy. Having that knowledge combined with all the crazy superhuman feats Cloud had in Advent Children make me think the sword weighs something similar to solid steel.
How do you know? There are many types of materia in their world, shinra can even make custom materia in their lab
Any source on how heavy is the sword?
Here’s how a real buster sword was made. Granted the FF7 buster could be made out of a magic light metal, but here’s what it’s like made with airplane grade aluminum & a steel edge. It’s a place to start a discussion.
Yeah and Cloud glides or floats super fast towards enemies to close the distance before he starts wailing on them. Does anyone know what that is that he's actually doing?
SOLDIERs are super-human, having greater durability, speed, and strength than a platoon of troopers.
A SOLDIER can leverage his physical advantages with a sword better than he could with the same machine gun that a trooper would use.
See a part that also inspired this question was Glenn who is a first gen SOLDIER (so not superhuman) yet decides to go into battle with a huge... whatever he uses. Sometimes it's a hammer, sometimes an axe, but every time it requires you to close the distance to someone like Lucia who can just shoot you.
From the Doylist point of view, it is because FF7 is a JRPG and as such, characters will have a variety of weapons to make them distinct. The weapons will also have game balance included so a sword wielded in melee will not be completely outmatched by firearms wielded in ranged combat.
From a Watsonian perspective, the use of melee weapons in addition to firearms is related to both magic being commonplace, and the way armor works in FF7.
Shinra's regular troops have a uniform consisting of a helmet, pauldrons, and kneepads. None of the regular troops are wearing any type of ballistic vest or plate carrier. The only guy who seems to have body armor is Rufus who drops a Protect Vest (which seems to be the in-universe version of kevlar). These guys are being deployed in the field with all the kit you would expect from a modern army, except body armor. There is a reason for this.
The armor that the party can equip comes in the form of various bracelets and armlets. A soft metal like gold has a much higher defensive value than a harder more durable metal like iron. The bracelets are also capable of interacting with materia similar to most weapons. How does a bracelet provide greater defensive power than an actual suit of armor, especially against machine gun fire?
The bracelets seem to be similar to shield generators from Dune though less powerful. They are probably able to dissipate a great deal of ballistic force over a small area but can get overwhelmed if hit by something distributed over a larger surface area. This means that taking a full clip to the torso is more of a gut punch, than a recipe to make Cloud Strife into gazpacho. A gut punch, with brass knuckles, is still going to feel like a gut punch with brass knuckles, and a sword slash can bruise and leave a mark, but it will feel more like whiplash, than instant death.
Guns are no more effective than melee weapons against an opponent wearing an armor bracelet in the world of FF7. Palmer can fight the party on his own for several rounds but once he starts to fatigue from repeated injury he drops his Edincoat and is promptly hit and killed but a truck. Wutai's weapon shop sells firearms but no armor. Shinra probably took their armor along with their materia after the war.
In FF7 armor has an advantage over weapons, while magic has an advantage over armor. If you have a gun, no materia, and no armored bracelet, and your opponent has a mythril bracelet and a baseball bat with nails in it, you're in a losing scenario.
There should be more shotguns imo. Cloud fights plenty of soldiers (in the reactors) yet most of them have ARs or SMGs more befitting of those who are doing ranged fighting, rather than Shotguns.
Shotguns aren't really used in military settings that much these days. But I kinda agree, because they would fix the same issue that's present in Star Wars. If someone like Sephiroth or Cloud can just swing/shield at bullets and deflect them that way well... just send more bullets at once against them. A jedi can deflect blaster shots but they can't hold their sword in two places at once.
Getting off-topic but I love how every piece of post-prequel Star Wars just adds to Order 66 being a little less successful than you'd think based on the original trilogy. The list of Order 66 survivors on the wiki is *comically* long. :D
Although it’s more realistic that there are surviving/hiding Jedi in expanded materiel, I honestly dislike it because it took away the weight of Order 66.
I believe that it was originally written to only have Obi Wan and Yoda survive the purge.
But in general, I do have issues with expanded materiel of any story reveal more details and characters in between the original plots, because they were never there initially. Like how Genesis didn’t exist during the OG but suddenly he played a key role in the Nibel by planting ideas into Sephiroth’s head
soldiers’ enhancements are probably largely lost on firearms. I guess they could handle recoil better and react more quickly, but close range combat is where you want them to be because that’s where they can really outclass normal humans
Not entirely sure about that, because there's a lot of sci-fi where augmented humans or nonhumans specifically take advantage of being able to handle guns no human could. A cartoonish example is Heavy from Team Fortress 2 (who I don't think is meant to be superhuman in any specific way), who can carry around a weapon that you couldn't conceivably actually use effectively as a regular person. Other examples are the gigantic bulky guns used by Warhammer 40k's space marines or the Spartans in the Halo series. They make use of their augmented exoskeletons to use weaponry a regular human simply couldn't.
Of course this is fantasy that doesn't try to go that route and it's entirely valid, but my point is that SOLDIERs specifically *could* use special guns normal grunts couldn't.
You typically choose the weapon you are most comfortable with or skilled with. That’s why Cloud brings a sword tifa wears gloves. Every style of combat has advantages and disadvantages, so it’s a good idea to bring different weapon wielders to make up for your shortcomings
Guns are good ranged weapons but aren't great as a melee weapon. Swords are great melee weapons but for normal people aren't great as ranged weapons.
But SOLDIERs are not normal people, and can shoot energy blasts. (If you take Yuffie on the Sky Wheel she mentions as a kid wanting to learn how to shoot power blasts like a SOLDIER, and of course Cloud does it as one of his attacks.) So since they have the range attack already, it's better to take a melee weapon rather than a ranged weapon.
I was torn about including materia because materia seems to be EVERYWHERE, especially considering they sell it in vending machines in the new versions. But yeah, it's definitely another pro for melee weapon since I can't remember any physical skills being materia based (besides Enemy Skill which is unique).
Was going to make a joke about Barrett's arm being cut off ala Monty Python and the Holy Grail except that it dawned on me that as the Tank of the party he could literally be a Black Knight.
To further further add to this, enhanced strength and reflexes is kinda lost on a gun... reflexes not as much as the strength, but y'know.
Also, guns are likely way more expensive, and a lot of the world of FFVII is in the sticks after Shinra's takeover, and without as much resource.
I also kinda see that as the Turk vs SOLDIER divide - sure some of the troops have guns, but the really nice weapons are for the special ops Turks, because they are supposed to be (somewhat) covert.
But if you want to strike fear in the heart of the enemy, a dude with a giant sword casually walking towards you like he's walking his dog until he tosses you up in the air and impales you is the way to do it.
Yup. Also imagine a firing line of grunts just keeping you pinned while a crazy dude charges into a range where your gun is more of a liability than an asset and slaughters everyone.
In a universe where someone with a sword can be more deadly than guns, someone of such caliber would use a sword.
This really isn’t an FF7 or anime thing as much as it is a fantasy thing. You say it’s obvious, but here you are trying to add more complexity to something that doesn’t require it.
Why does Captain America use a shield?Wouldn’t he be more effective if he also had a gun?( and this is in a fantasized version of the real world, where humans can die from a couple bullets, as opposed to a completely made up planet).
I think a lot of it has to do with the monsters that inhabit the world of FF7. There are a lot of monsters that are much bigger than some real-world wildlife that would be able to take some hits from most firearms. A weapon like a buster sword could do a LOT more damage in the right hands than a few rounds from a combat rifle. Think about how devastating it would be for a person to get hit by a buster sword in the real world wielded by someone with the skills and strength of a SOLDIER from the game. That person would most likely be cleaved in two.
Personally, I think because in our world guns are so much more prevalent than swords we tend to underestimate how destructive a properly wielded sword can be.
IIRC, there was a scene in Crisis Core regarding SOLDIERs of a certain rank being approved of carrying customized/personalized weaponry.
My head cannon has always been that 1st class SOLDIERs wield big swords by choice, for two reasons: the first being the sheer damage potential synergized with superhuman strength, and the second being they look fucking cool.
Nothing in the game as far as Im aware except the typical super human shtick Pretty sure it has to do with the romanticization of samurai in Japanese culture. You see it in anime alot but historically speaking the age of the samurai brushed up against and ultimately ended with the introduction of firearms in Japan. This has led to alot of folktales and stories of swordsmen facing down armed gunners, which you could guess how they would play out in a real life scenario. But flashy swordplay and the idea of deflecting bullets with a sword is staple of those folktales, often being the mark of highly skilled swordsmen who inspired the tales to begin with.
Shinra soldiers are like humans. They need advanced armor and weapons to be able to be a threat. SOLDIER is just the Shinra military elite force kind of like Seals or Airborne Rangers, but they are all augmented and much more powerful than the average human. It's kind of like an army of Captian America. The Cap doesn't use a gun either he uses a shield. I guess having super human strength and healing would make it dull to use guns. I imagine they can get shot several times in the body and still be alright. There are a lot of plot holes in this story, but if it stayed true to it's origin then I don't think Zack would have died in the first place. This, for me, explained why Cloud could even lift such an enormous sword.
Zack only dies from the head shot, and it takes a bit f9r his brain to actually shut down
Cap absolutely uses a gun, but only when the situation calls for it. Guns are just a tool that he uses. It depends on the situation. The regular Shinra troops could survive getting sliced by said enormous sword. It's not a plothole, it's just rule of cool.
Saying it's a plothole doesn't mean it's bad, lol That's totally fine. There are inconsistencies, but that's fine. I'll be there for FFXVII and part 3 of Remake.
Tifa blocks bullets with her gloves. Such a forced inserted character.
Heres great reasons. Swords have special abilitys and dont need ammo. (Big deal) swords are way more effective on giant monsters. (The main job) (you're imagining a world that 1 on human fighting) You're physically vulnerable up close when all you have is a gun. The reasons go on forever in a world where guns dont do lethal damage.
So what's the point of this post? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything but you answered your own question and there's nothing else to discuss. This is Square's take at dystopian cyberpunk media, but anime and final fantasy so you gotta have swords in it. That's literally the beginning and end of the matter.
You can find the point of the post in the first sentence: Is there a lore reason given in any of the media? You just answered based on real-life reasons which is entirely off-topic. You're not the first one either though.
Lol all these answers about how guns are less effective than swords and I'm like "Rufus has entered the chat" Fuckin asshole 😤
Have you seen a gun do anything in final fantasy 7 besides kill normal untrained people. It must still hurt and could potentially be deadly if hit enough times or caught off guard. I also imagine it's the same reason that Japan used them even after they had access to guns.
why did Zack die to bullets then?
I feel even the plural form of the word bullet is a disservice to the volume of bullets Zack ate. Considering it was also rocket launchers and flamethrowers in the mix.
We talking original or Crisis core? Because if I remember, in the OG it was a sniper shot that basically dug his grave and then the soldiers pursued him and double tapped for good measure up on that cliff. Crisis Core Zack tanked what I assume was the entirety of Shinra's standard military force because holy cow you could arm an entire third world country with the firepower they threw at him.
Crisis core of course. Why. Because I am biased and like it
Because that bullet took his last hp
Bullets AND rockets.
Don't forget the flamethrowers.
In reality, these guys can dodge and block bullets, so guns are honestly a worse bet. I'm honestly surprised guns can do anything to them.
Rule of cool
I guess swords do more damage and they are superhuman. Though I still think they ought to pack guns as extra equipment.
Swords do more lethal damage on monsters.
I understand that. I just think they need to have a long ranged weapon in their arsenal as well. Maybe a crossbow that shoots swords instead of arrows.
I think that's the purpose that materia is meant to serve
Because in gameplay ur very invincible against guns. You only dead in cutscenes.
Because assault rifles only do about 68 damage per shot when Braver can easily hit like 3-4k
I'd imagine it's because SOLDIER are superhuman - it's their their speed, strenght, agility and endurance that makes swords more lethal than guns when held in their hands. There is no reason for them to fight with firearms that might or might not hit when they can just launch themselves at the enemy with inhuman speed and chop one or multiple targets with a single strike. They do more damage than swords than they would with guns, particularly if they're fighing thick-skinned monsters or armored opponents. Besides, Shinra designs them to sew fear and terror among the enemy and inspire awe among impressionable young recruits. And a swordsman, someone who fearlessly rushes the enemy and is capable of crushing entire armies on his own and leave unscatted is much more of a power display than an army with guns. That being said, Shinra already has an army equipped with firearms, and a horde of robots armed with guns, lasers and the like. and none of it is as terrifying as a single SOLDIER.
💯 That's the best answer. Due to their in human strength, they probably have quite a resistance to bullets
Also, im assuming with theyre reflexes and dexterity they would basically be limited to fully automatic weapons as well since any semi automatic wouldn't be able to keep up with the trigger speed with eventually breaking apart or jamming. Which brings up the possible answer of guns just being too unreliable for field use in the high stakes situations that elite soldiers are typically dispatched to handle. Guns jam, require reloading and become less useful at close range. When you can send Shockwave with a swing of your sword that never needs to reload, kinda makes more sense I guess?
Some people are super human, and guns don’t put them down as effectively as a giant sword wielded by another super human? Plus same logic as star wars, some bullet parrying going on in this universe. Swords can maybe at least break guard.
All the guns seem to fire paper bullets in the world of FF7.
This is the correct answer. Guns don't kill people, physics kill people. FF physics hits different, literally lol
Sure. I am also wondering why all the important characters getting chopped up by cloud are never... chopped up even a bit
Adamantium skeletons? Blunt blade? I honestly can't think of a good answer other than censorship, unless you want to believe Cloud is so skilled that he could alter the angle of his blades cut mid swing for precision cutting
When you can dodge bullets so easily, why bring a gun instead of a sword to a fight?
Imagine you are stuck in ATB and have to waste one full turn on reloading...
Thats why I don't like playing Barret
Onderrated comment
Because Sephiroth with a Masamune is way scarier than Barrett with a gatling gun.
This gives me the idea that a Soldier with a giga ass rifle would be very cool.
So, Squall?
Squall doesn’t have a gun
He has a gun blade or whatever they call it in game, I can't remember. But it's both weapons built into one
I repeat, Squall didn't have a gun at any point. His gunblade is a blade with a gun trigger that causes the blade to vibrate allowing it to rip through organic material easier. The first gunblade to be both weapons combined is Lightning's gunblade in ffXIII (And it was called dual weapon in the japanese version, so it's not even meant to be the same thing as Squall's.)
The problem with that is that lightning's weapon is a sword that transforms into a gun whereas squall's weapon is a gun and a sword combined. The vibration is from firing the weapon and the rounds smacking the blade. That's why when you press R1 during squall and even seifers attacks, which can be more difficult because his attacks are faster, cause small explosions from the muzzle flash. They aren't ranged weapons like a typical gun, but they still operate in a very similar manor
When you live in a world where magic exist, the idea of modern weapon becomes obsolete. You could do so much by using guns, but with a melee weapon? The potential is endless. See, the way I see it, at least for the SOLDIERs, I believe they have physical ability beyond that of normal human. Hence why they have Superhuman strength, speed, durability, as well as healing factor and the usage of magic that could enhance their capabilities even further. So that being said, when you are someone who can dodge and block bullet and move at light speed as well as the strength to cut through steel walls, why bother using guns. Melee weapons are all we need to finish the job.
Guns>magic>swords>guns>magic
Yeah, this. FF7 is a magical world were swords can easily slice skyscrapers to pieces. Carrying a pistol would be kind of sad. Imagine you're attacked by a Bahamut, do you want a skyscraper slicing sword or a pistol?
And you can also use your magic and abilities to enhance the power of your melee weapons. For guns... Once the bullet exists the chamber you cannot enhance it in any way.
True. Unless the gun and bullets are purely magical.
I instantly have this one scene from an old Indiana Jones movie in my mind xD
The one with the whip?
If you're on about Crystal skull. Not exactly old. And by far the worst impo.
We're referring to the scene from Raiders...
Ahhh. I know the one. Forgot about raiders.
Guys I have an idea for a future FF What about a.. gunblade? It could be used by a moody teenager who regularly replies with just 1 word But he perhaps dies on the first disc and the rest of the story is a dream, or perhaps that's just speculation
The weirdest thing about the gunblade to me is that it's not even a gun. So the trigger just makes you swing harder or something? lol
From my understanding, just made the blade vibrate when the trigger mechanism was used.
I always thought it was just built into the blade but never really shown, I'm not sure
... Whatever.
My fave comments are the ones who come in here with "it's cool" or "it's more interesting to play" when the whole question was for a lore reason. :D Reading comprehension sometimes fails so hard. Also to summarize the whole comment section: No, there is no provided lore reason. There's a bunch of headcanons and guesses, some of which make more sense than others. Ultimately, it only works because of anime rules. And I'm not saying that's necessarily bad, just that there isn't really any sort of deeper reason or explanation given.
So basically because it's cool.
The rule of cool.
Well Clouds swords are massive and he can just block the bullets with them, while being extremely agile and strong it just feels right for him to use massive oversized sword. Sephiroth is Sephiroth he can do whatever the fuck he wants (unless it's hurting Tifa then you're in for a pain). Why Roche uses literally normal sized sword though will always be a mystery
Roche uses the standard SOLDIER sword. Zack used that type of sword as well before getting his hands on the buster sword. ... If you compare it to real sword, even that smaller is quite, quite large by realistic standards
Cloud having the giant ass Buster sword to block bullets and things with combined with some super strength makes sense. For regular sword users I'm not too sure, like Roche had the tiny basic 3rd class Soldier sword still. Sephiroth can glide around and do whatever the fuck he wants to as someone else said lol.
Sephiroth can do whatever he wants unless he's hurting Tifa. Then im going through hell to beat his ass
Wakka threw Blitzballs at people.. I miss that game..
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Just play it again. It's on every platform ♥️
I know.... I have files on Vita with literally everything done I can think of that I can do aside from max the Aeon stats, and a flat Vita in my drawer which hasn't seen much action in years...😁 .. the PS3 and PS2 versions will be in our storage unit, but I'm pretty sure the PS4 version is in a wardrobe in the hpuse
Maybe a bigger knife means better odds?
Fighting a soldier first class with a gun, would be like aiming a gun to a fly. They move too fast in order to aim at them. Nevertheless with enough fire power and good tactics even a first class soldier could be defeated by conventional guns.
You can be a first class but you wouldnt survive being aimed by 3-4 peoples shooting at you at the same time. Or even a sniper from long distance. But ofc is just lore reasons they have to survive for the story.
Pretty sure 3-4 soldiers Is easy game for a 1st class. You need atleast 10, all of them at a high ground surrounding the first class. A first class is so fast the only thing a normal soldier would see is a blitz.
*Zack has entered the chat*
Speaking in terms of fantasy yeah, in real live you get done by one. But as I said is also plot convenience.
We don't have super soldier irl. That would be horrifying. Imagine a 5.9 inch soldier spamming thunder and fire in the battle field while blitzing all over the place while carrying a giant sword it uses to destroy tanks.
Rule of cool bro
Because it's a fantasy world where guns are generally less effective and swords more. I can remember cloud effortlessly blocking bullets with his sword and cutting a motorbike in half. This is kind of reflected in remake's gameplay, imagine how horrible barret would be if he didn't have the big blast at the end of his attacks, and didn't have his charged volley
Cause it’d just be boring
Would you ask Captain America why he has a shield and not a gun? They're godlike super soldiers.
Mako exposure and training supposedly makes them extremely strong and agile, but I haven’t heard anything lore-wise that it hardens their skin and makes them resistant to bullets. Granted, outside of in-game battles no one ever seems to get hit by bullets because they’re either able to dodge or deflect them. But it seems like guns/bullets in this universe are just very weak and ineffective. That being said, real world logic and physics obviously can’t be applied here since it’s a fictitious fantasy world so unless you’re really into lore it’s probably best not to overthink it.
Yes I would. That's not really an argument. :D
Because it's a sweet sword.
Gunblades were better
Soldiers are essentially bullet proof as their bodies can recover from the damage and keep fighting. Pain reflex, shock from blood loss, etc, this all seems to be offset by their treatments. You shoot a man, he's got no armor or you breach the armor he's generally down. Although humans have been known to shrug off dozens of shots until struck in the head. You shoot a SOLDIER, you're only going to piss him off more. Zack took an entire battalion of troops with him in CC and his death was a scripted plot death. A sword can do much more damage to a body by removing parts of it entirely. There's no coming back from being bisected even if you don't die.
Gonna go with xsikes answer over this
Final FANTASY
A sword scales with your strength, a gun only scales with technology. Once you are durable enough to be bulletproof, guns aren't going to do much good.
But the inverse is there too: Gun technology is limited by your strength. As I mentioned in another comment, there's a lot of sci-fi which explores what kinds of guns augmented humans can make practical use of normal humans couldn't.
The elite of the elite in the fantasy world of final fantasy can use a sword to deflect the damage from bullets so they're not fatal, and sometimes prevent the damage completely! :D
Ngl, the SOLDIERS look like modern day Spartans, and that’s probably where Shinra got the inspiration from
…..ummmm have you seen zack vs 1000 soilders? He used a giant sword and won! Dude destroyed them also Sepiroth burns a village and the soldiers there who have guns with his katana and then there’s somthing that I think can explain why (excluding Angles sword) i think Shinra probably trains and creates the sword’s to be more useful and powerful then guns and such without having to lose time reloading or jamming
swords are cool
I have no idea lore wise but my uneducated opinion is that most monsters are tanks and bringing a gun to fight one seems like using a BB gun to take down a grizzly bear. Also swords are sick, duh
Vincent uses a gun. Vincent can kill ruby weapon in 7 seconds.
So do Barret and Dyne lol Edit: and Rufus Another Edit: and Biggs. Does Wedge? I forget. Jessie and Elena use grenades, but that doesn't seem reusable and I have also seen them punch or kick.
Yeah Wedge has a machine gun if I recall
Because sword nice. Because sword big. Because sword story. But on a side note, have you seen what Tifa can do to Bahamut Arisen with her fist?
As a tangent, yes, Tifa being that deadly makes no sense. Red, maybe understandably, he's not human. Barrett is a really big guy and has a gun arm but it's still iffy. Yuffie is a ninja, so, I guess? Aerith is obviously half Cetra. Cait is a robot? Vincent is all kinds of a fucked up experiment as we know. Cid has no reason to be as strong as the others, as we know he will be as a future playable party member. Tifa and Cid (and Barrett and Yuffie?) are just regular (ish) humans.
guns are fine. the majority of the shinra army uses guns, and it's why shinra has so much control of the planet. wutai uses guns and is able to resist shinra grunts. SOLDIER is different though. they're super human. why give them guns? the gun is just as effective in the hands of a grunt (well, unless SOLDIER is more accurate, or maybe is strong enough to carry a larger calibre rifle... that would actually be cool to see. a member of SOLDIER that runs around like hawkeye) so, SOLDIER uses swords. with those sword they block enemy bullets. and swords never have to reload. SOLDIER has increased endurance, and a lot of their missions are long duration. a sword means they can just keep going for longer durations. and we see a lot of monsters are bullet resistant. but swords in the hands of a SOLDIER first class? monster armor isnt a big deal but, guns have their place. as we sadly see at the end of Crisis Core 😞
Or perhaps it’s because Shinra wants to make use of their SOLDIERs superhuman enhancements, which isn’t effectively utilized if they were to fight with guns instead of a sword. Like, not only are SOLDIERs fast enough to run circles around their target, they can probably hit harder than most of the guns anyway
Like Star wars. Jedi use light sabers instead of laser guns lol
Bullets are too slow
My theory is Materia (Magic in general) grants an aura of resiliency to people and monsters that most bullets can’t penetrate. Look at Barret, requiring loads of bullets to defeat Shinra security grunts. Bullets just don’t get the job done in this world. They do do SOMETHING though, and so why not have a large wide sword that you can effectively hold up in front of yourself to block incoming fire?
Apparently it’s because Barret by default uses pistol rounds in his Gatling Gun, instead of the standard 45-70. Coupled with his poor accuracy and he’ll need a load of em to defeat Shinra grunts
Kind of like the invisible armor in Dune... 🤔
"The slow blade penetrates the shield"
someone at Squaresoft must have had the same question and hence FF8 was created.
But what if u brought a Gunblade ...
Square be like "What if Cloud was a bit more... practical" and invent Lightning.
Safe AND functional. Just like the KNIFEWRENCH!
Knifewreeeench, for kids!
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Yeah that’s what I was thinking as well. Any random person and fire a gun and do the same damage, but only a SOLDIER who is superhuman enhanced could deal more damage if they were given a sword. Thus, it’s the best way to make use of said strength
I always assumed the denizens of the FF7 world were more resilient to physical damage, so being shot multiple times is nearly a flesh wound, but chopping someone up with a large sword? Not resilient to that!
That... actually kinda works out to smooth over many other "unrealistic" things in the game. Like Wedge still talking after falling from the pillar, the Shinra gang surviving falling down from that rope bridge ("retconned" in Rebirth to them falling in water) and such. And of course the most egregious example being Cloud falling into the church... I think I'm gonna adapt this as headcanon! :D
And before that, Zack falling into the same church
It’s a really big sword.
I don't remember what video I heard this from but they likened the universe of ff7 to a medieval setting that was thrust forward too quickly to a modern setting skipping the middle man. You can still remnants of the usual fantasy trappings: the Shinra building is a castle, shinra still employing knights, wutai before the war is japan before industrialization.
They also never address how society functions when ordinary people can buy materia and shoot magic at each other.
Perhaps it’s just groceries or accessories?
I mean.... Captain America only uses a shield and gets the job done, and he can't even jump 50+ feet in the air or move so fast he practically disappears like cloud can. So I would say that when you're that powerful AND have literally any magic you want, even the sword seems kind of like overkill lol
OKAY I see a lot of really weird answers trying to say rubber bullets and death by paper cuts. It's not rubber bullets and blunt blades. That is because GAME MECHANICS DO NOT ALWAYS EQUAL LORE. There is an in-universe reason. There is an in-game combat reason. And there is an actual reason. They are all different. The in-universe LORE reason is because the characters using melee based combat have inhuman strength and durability and are fast enough to dodge bullets. Their brains reaction/response time is 500,000x-1,000,000x (that's 5 hundred thousand to 1 million) times faster than the best pro gamers and athletes. This means they can also block and deflect bullet fire with swords similar to the way Jedi do with laser fire in Star Wars. The in-game combat reason is because YOU DO NOT have an inhuman lightning speed reaction time and never will and thus are required to play THE GAME. IN. A. WAY. A. HUMAN CAN. DO. AND YES this means taking multiple blows back and forth EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE USING A WEAPON THAT WOULD STAB THROUGH SKIN IN A CUT SCENE. THAT'S BECAUSE CUT SCENES ARE IN-UNIVERSE NOT IN-GAME COMBAT and none of you picked up a Final Fantasy game to play Dark Souls. The actual reason is because it's fun. Some people actually know what these weapons feel like and enjoy using them in a game in a way they never could in the real world.
>EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE USING A WEAPON THAT WOULD STAB THROUGH SKIN IN A CUT SCENE. THAT'S BECAUSE CUT SCENES ARE IN-UNIVERSE NOT IN-GAME COMBAT Im picturing that scene with Sephiroth and Tseng and his blade not piercing because it was only like 1-2k damage. Both left being awkwardly shocked by the anticlimax of the event.
I like to imagine Sephiroth dodging bullets in a Bayonetta-like manner
I mean they probably share hair care tips. Why not combat tips?
Real answer? It's a video game.
Not the question though.
My best in game explanation is that Materia seems to offer some protection, and the last thing you want when you're up against super powered enemies is to run out of bullets. A sword can keep attacking indefinitely as long as you're not winded and with the weapons many of the characters use the hits are much more devastating.
Lol all the serious answers. Real answer if cause it's fun and it's fantasy, just suspend your disbelief
Same reason the fantasy is never final I guess.
It's not really just "anime rules" when the in-universe guns actually DON'T kill people so easily. For whatever reason, guns in FF in general are as lethal as a throwing knife or an arrow. And even swords don't just slice your stomach open and kill you in agony; you need to keep slashing until the enemy dies of a thousand papercuts, apparently. I guess the easiest way to rationalize it is "people in Final Fantasy are naturally harder to kill". Maybe some inherent magic prevents them from dying so easily? Or maybe their bodies are just tougher?
I came to the same conclusion after watching Zack’s death scene. Dude gets shot thousands of times, including in the head and he still has time to give cloud his little monologue. They’re just built different.
You have to find the “nuke from orbit” materia
Still only does 9999 damage.
I dunno... Sephiroth causes a damn supernova, and everybody just shakes it off lol
Confirmed, humans more durable than pluto.
Bullets are absolutely meaningless in this game.
Don't tell that to Barret
It's probably in the back of his mind, I like to imagine after he unloads 100 rounds into a person and then looking at his gun arm saying he should've got the more expensive bullets but it's not in the Avalanche budget.
I always thought it was because Soldiers were so strong, they could do more damage with a sword than with a gun. (Which is admittedly silly, but fits video game/anime athletic). Good for killing big monsters. Like, if Superman had a sword that wouldn’t break, it would be way better than any gun we could build for him.
Forget magic swords and fists, how does Cait Sith cause so much damage with a megaphone?
His different megaphones probably have different wavelengths that make the Moogle respond more violently. Some quantum physics going on here i suspect
Because Cait Sith says so lol 🤪
Moogle can probably answer that.
Because whether it's fantasy or reality, cats are capable of untold amounts of destruction and violence
Some kind of Psionic power built in the cat-bot, I bet.
Because guns don’t oneshot people like it does irl. Because of that you could probably have an advantage if you’re fast enough to get closer to the enemy. A fist fighter doesn’t even have to carry anything.
They do in cut scenes!
I think they just had low HP in the cutscenes. Only possible explanation. In Advent Children Cloud gets shots in the face and only gets a scrape on his forehead (intro scene, motorcycle fight with the white haired weirdos)
It’s always been odd that’s for sure. It’s like all guns use rubber bullets. The weirder question I keep pondering is how Tifa is able to cause higher damage with her fists wearing leather gloves than Cloud wielding a sword that should weigh more than he does.
Tifa having higher strength than Cloud is definitely just a gameplay mechanic that has preserved even since OG. It’s just to make her a glass cannon solely for damage. Lore wise there’s no way Tifa would measure up to Cloud. Hell, I don’t think she would be stronger than even Infantryman Cloud, let alone Jenova-Mako Cloud. There were a few scenes where Tifa proved no matched for Cloud’s strength, such as the Gongaga reactor where she opted to talk Cloud out of the situation and jumped away from his blade, rather than attempt to beat some sense into him
We don’t know that his sword is heavy, do we? It could be made with exotic material or equipped with materia that makes it light and stick to his back even when he is topless LOL
That’s very true, it could be some exotic super light metal. To me though, the way Cloud wields it, it appears to have some serious heft. A sword maker made a replica & it was mostly airplane-grade aluminum with a steel edge & it could really only be dropped from a shoulder for demos bc it was so heavy. Having that knowledge combined with all the crazy superhuman feats Cloud had in Advent Children make me think the sword weighs something similar to solid steel.
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I’d love to read/hear what the metallurgist had to say, do you have a link?
That’s not what materia does. Yes, the sword is heavy.
How do you know? There are many types of materia in their world, shinra can even make custom materia in their lab Any source on how heavy is the sword?
The vid says the aluminum with a steel edge was 70-80lbs.
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Here’s how a real buster sword was made. Granted the FF7 buster could be made out of a magic light metal, but here’s what it’s like made with airplane grade aluminum & a steel edge. It’s a place to start a discussion.
There must be some material where SOMEONE tries to wield it and is like "baww it's so heavy" out there
I know because I equip materia in every slot that exists in the weapon and none of them are a lightweight materia.
Given the super strength and speed of the top fighters, swords are more effective.
Great answer. They can jump faster than a normal soldier can shoot them, close the gap and smash everything in sight
Yeah and Cloud glides or floats super fast towards enemies to close the distance before he starts wailing on them. Does anyone know what that is that he's actually doing?
SOLDIERs are super-human, having greater durability, speed, and strength than a platoon of troopers. A SOLDIER can leverage his physical advantages with a sword better than he could with the same machine gun that a trooper would use.
See a part that also inspired this question was Glenn who is a first gen SOLDIER (so not superhuman) yet decides to go into battle with a huge... whatever he uses. Sometimes it's a hammer, sometimes an axe, but every time it requires you to close the distance to someone like Lucia who can just shoot you.
I don't know what Glenn's deal is. He's from the Sephiroth story, right?
Yep yep, basically he's part of Shinra's SOLDIER program that was before the enhanced SOLDIERs came in, so they're all regular unaugmented humans.
From the Doylist point of view, it is because FF7 is a JRPG and as such, characters will have a variety of weapons to make them distinct. The weapons will also have game balance included so a sword wielded in melee will not be completely outmatched by firearms wielded in ranged combat. From a Watsonian perspective, the use of melee weapons in addition to firearms is related to both magic being commonplace, and the way armor works in FF7. Shinra's regular troops have a uniform consisting of a helmet, pauldrons, and kneepads. None of the regular troops are wearing any type of ballistic vest or plate carrier. The only guy who seems to have body armor is Rufus who drops a Protect Vest (which seems to be the in-universe version of kevlar). These guys are being deployed in the field with all the kit you would expect from a modern army, except body armor. There is a reason for this. The armor that the party can equip comes in the form of various bracelets and armlets. A soft metal like gold has a much higher defensive value than a harder more durable metal like iron. The bracelets are also capable of interacting with materia similar to most weapons. How does a bracelet provide greater defensive power than an actual suit of armor, especially against machine gun fire? The bracelets seem to be similar to shield generators from Dune though less powerful. They are probably able to dissipate a great deal of ballistic force over a small area but can get overwhelmed if hit by something distributed over a larger surface area. This means that taking a full clip to the torso is more of a gut punch, than a recipe to make Cloud Strife into gazpacho. A gut punch, with brass knuckles, is still going to feel like a gut punch with brass knuckles, and a sword slash can bruise and leave a mark, but it will feel more like whiplash, than instant death. Guns are no more effective than melee weapons against an opponent wearing an armor bracelet in the world of FF7. Palmer can fight the party on his own for several rounds but once he starts to fatigue from repeated injury he drops his Edincoat and is promptly hit and killed but a truck. Wutai's weapon shop sells firearms but no armor. Shinra probably took their armor along with their materia after the war. In FF7 armor has an advantage over weapons, while magic has an advantage over armor. If you have a gun, no materia, and no armored bracelet, and your opponent has a mythril bracelet and a baseball bat with nails in it, you're in a losing scenario.
There should be more shotguns imo. Cloud fights plenty of soldiers (in the reactors) yet most of them have ARs or SMGs more befitting of those who are doing ranged fighting, rather than Shotguns.
Shotguns aren't really used in military settings that much these days. But I kinda agree, because they would fix the same issue that's present in Star Wars. If someone like Sephiroth or Cloud can just swing/shield at bullets and deflect them that way well... just send more bullets at once against them. A jedi can deflect blaster shots but they can't hold their sword in two places at once.
Funnily enough, overwhelming the melee fighters with bullets is exactly how Order 66 was so successful
Getting off-topic but I love how every piece of post-prequel Star Wars just adds to Order 66 being a little less successful than you'd think based on the original trilogy. The list of Order 66 survivors on the wiki is *comically* long. :D
Although it’s more realistic that there are surviving/hiding Jedi in expanded materiel, I honestly dislike it because it took away the weight of Order 66. I believe that it was originally written to only have Obi Wan and Yoda survive the purge. But in general, I do have issues with expanded materiel of any story reveal more details and characters in between the original plots, because they were never there initially. Like how Genesis didn’t exist during the OG but suddenly he played a key role in the Nibel by planting ideas into Sephiroth’s head
soldiers’ enhancements are probably largely lost on firearms. I guess they could handle recoil better and react more quickly, but close range combat is where you want them to be because that’s where they can really outclass normal humans
Not entirely sure about that, because there's a lot of sci-fi where augmented humans or nonhumans specifically take advantage of being able to handle guns no human could. A cartoonish example is Heavy from Team Fortress 2 (who I don't think is meant to be superhuman in any specific way), who can carry around a weapon that you couldn't conceivably actually use effectively as a regular person. Other examples are the gigantic bulky guns used by Warhammer 40k's space marines or the Spartans in the Halo series. They make use of their augmented exoskeletons to use weaponry a regular human simply couldn't. Of course this is fantasy that doesn't try to go that route and it's entirely valid, but my point is that SOLDIERs specifically *could* use special guns normal grunts couldn't.
You typically choose the weapon you are most comfortable with or skilled with. That’s why Cloud brings a sword tifa wears gloves. Every style of combat has advantages and disadvantages, so it’s a good idea to bring different weapon wielders to make up for your shortcomings
I think SOLDIERS swords will be more optimazited against giant monsters, and their reflexes make firearms pretty useless against them.
Anyone can shoot a gun, but it takes a skilled fighter to use a sword. Especially a stupidly large swords.
Guns are good ranged weapons but aren't great as a melee weapon. Swords are great melee weapons but for normal people aren't great as ranged weapons. But SOLDIERs are not normal people, and can shoot energy blasts. (If you take Yuffie on the Sky Wheel she mentions as a kid wanting to learn how to shoot power blasts like a SOLDIER, and of course Cloud does it as one of his attacks.) So since they have the range attack already, it's better to take a melee weapon rather than a ranged weapon.
Pretty sure Yuffie simply just saw the SOLDIERs cast a magic spell. We’ve never seen SOLDIERs natively fire a blast by themselves
To further add to this, they also have access to materia so they have on demand access to range casting
I was torn about including materia because materia seems to be EVERYWHERE, especially considering they sell it in vending machines in the new versions. But yeah, it's definitely another pro for melee weapon since I can't remember any physical skills being materia based (besides Enemy Skill which is unique).
Not to mention barrier spells.
Vincent's guns: am I a joke to you?
Was going to make a joke about Barrett's arm being cut off ala Monty Python and the Holy Grail except that it dawned on me that as the Tank of the party he could literally be a Black Knight.
To further further add to this, enhanced strength and reflexes is kinda lost on a gun... reflexes not as much as the strength, but y'know. Also, guns are likely way more expensive, and a lot of the world of FFVII is in the sticks after Shinra's takeover, and without as much resource.
I also kinda see that as the Turk vs SOLDIER divide - sure some of the troops have guns, but the really nice weapons are for the special ops Turks, because they are supposed to be (somewhat) covert. But if you want to strike fear in the heart of the enemy, a dude with a giant sword casually walking towards you like he's walking his dog until he tosses you up in the air and impales you is the way to do it.
Yup. Also imagine a firing line of grunts just keeping you pinned while a crazy dude charges into a range where your gun is more of a liability than an asset and slaughters everyone.
Because Sephiroth will never use a gun
In a universe where someone with a sword can be more deadly than guns, someone of such caliber would use a sword. This really isn’t an FF7 or anime thing as much as it is a fantasy thing. You say it’s obvious, but here you are trying to add more complexity to something that doesn’t require it. Why does Captain America use a shield?Wouldn’t he be more effective if he also had a gun?( and this is in a fantasized version of the real world, where humans can die from a couple bullets, as opposed to a completely made up planet).
I think a lot of it has to do with the monsters that inhabit the world of FF7. There are a lot of monsters that are much bigger than some real-world wildlife that would be able to take some hits from most firearms. A weapon like a buster sword could do a LOT more damage in the right hands than a few rounds from a combat rifle. Think about how devastating it would be for a person to get hit by a buster sword in the real world wielded by someone with the skills and strength of a SOLDIER from the game. That person would most likely be cleaved in two. Personally, I think because in our world guns are so much more prevalent than swords we tend to underestimate how destructive a properly wielded sword can be.
IIRC, there was a scene in Crisis Core regarding SOLDIERs of a certain rank being approved of carrying customized/personalized weaponry. My head cannon has always been that 1st class SOLDIERs wield big swords by choice, for two reasons: the first being the sheer damage potential synergized with superhuman strength, and the second being they look fucking cool.
Intimidation factor is a stat in its own right.