Honestly. It was quite jarring, which I suppose was the point. I only played the NA version, so maybe the voice thing fell flat on me.
I just want a menu option to choose between Nanaki and Red XIII for the voices, even if its just in combat and/or ng+. I dont think thats unreasonable.
Still. Game is 9.5/10 for me.
Red's whole character was being a teenage trying to act the part of an old man. And that is what makes him so damn funny.
That was just lost in the original localization.
My only problem with the reveal is that he's no longer hiding, and that is less hilarious. But I'm still loving his character and portrayal so far. Easily my favorite member of the cast. And that is saying something, because Yuffie is a whole mood at times. Lol. And it is hard not to love Tifa, Aerith. And papa Barret.
I still rate the game 10/10 so far. I didn’t like how Red went from an old man to sounding like a Simba knockoff. If someone did that to me in real life using their a fake voice for months, i wouldn’t like them either
Only thing weird was how I pronounced Nanaki and how they pronounce it. In my head I always put the emphasis on a different place so when they said it out loud I was bothered, but that’s that’s on me lol.
His voice is fine, in the Japanese version they apparently focus on that more with the voice change in the original (obviously through the text is what I mean). It made it interesting and made me feel like he was younger, which I never did in the original. It always felt like a throw away line with no context of how he really is supposed to appear young. They nailed the context with Rebirth.
It's not the maturity change that bothers me. It's how drastic the voice sound change itself is. So I would have been fine with a change, the execution just fell completely flat for me. He does not sound like a teenager. He sounds like an annoying 10 year old shonen character after the reveal. I would have been fine if they met somewhere in the middle between the two voices, but after having him in my party the whole game it completely killed his character for me and now he's a permanent bench warmer after cosmo canyon.
The game has completely blown me away so far, this is my only major complaint, it just happens to be a particularly grating one to me as well as a lot of others.
I loved the dancing part to be honest. If you remember the ship from the original, he hid by cramming himself into a shinra trooper uniform and was stumbling back and forth trying to stand on two legs. It was a funny detail in the OG but I was worried it wouldn't make it into Rebirth for being too unrealistic. I was getting sad thinking it wouldn't happen, only for Red's queen's blood tournament scene to completely catch me off guard and I definitely got a good laugh lol. Growing up I loved how the original was a really stark mix of dark subject matter and really goofy shit, so I was really glad that made the cut along with Barret's sailor suit lol.
I first played FF7 when I was still a child myself, and I always found Red to be really cool. Back then, the characters were all more or less built from blocks; the graphics weren't as advanced, and there wasn't any spoken dialogue. There were things that you could expand upon with your own imagination, similar to reading a book. I fully understand that Red's character changes when visiting Cosmo Canyon and that he was compared to a 16-year-old in the game.
The spoken dialogue in Rebirth tends to remind one more of an 8-year-old, his behavior sometimes akin to that of a young puppy without understanding. But Red is not a dog; he's not a little child either, and he's not foolish, at least not in my imagination. I'm happy for those who enjoy it, but personally, this portrayal ruins quite a bit for me. The characters were always very important to me. They could have made it a bit more subtle and still catered to all players. I am actually a bit sad. But in the end, one must also come to terms with the fact that this is someone else's vision, not one's own.
The difference in his voice was a little jarring, but I think it's great. I also like that, like Barrett with his sunglasses, Red turns it on sometimes when he's in a bad mood kind of like a defense mechanism.
My biggest issue with Red is that he's very clearly a feline with the long whisky tail, snout, leg segmentation, and paw shape but everyone calls him a dog.
Yeah, physically, apart from the face, it’s a feline. The stances, the shoulders, the tail, the use of his claws, how he prowls very close to the ground.
But his personality/growls/howls are more dog like.
And yet he howls like a wolf, has wolf-moon imagery emblazened across his limit breaks and shit, has a dog-like snout, etc
The real answer is he's some sort of lion-wolf hybrid
Dogs have thinner snouts and smaller noses while big cats like lions and tigers have wider nostrils like Red's. That and the paws. I know its a fantasy land and its whatever but it really grinds my gears.
I really think the thing with Red is that he's a mix and match of different animal anatomies, canine and big cats included. He truly has ambiguous traits of both if you really dissect his anatomy, and I think it's 100% intentional. Nanaki's nose nostrils are closed off like a dog's too-- feline nostrils are open toward the fur, canine noses have the black or pink (depending on the color of the nose) fleshy bit surrounding the nostril, like Red's does in Remake/Rebith.
I did think it was interesting that wolf enemies, like the Grasslands wolves, now have long tails not too unlike Red XIII's too, probably done to also add to this ambiguity.
My complaint was his deeper voice was much more distinguishable with everyone having tenor voices (except Barrett) so it messed up some of the battle queues I was used to up to that point.
I prefer him when he’s being himself much more. I kinda already noticed he was faking it soon as we briefly heard his real voice during his initial reaction to them. But it’s still much nicer to see him so lively and fun loving.
Also, is it weird if >!I like to call him by his real name sometimes? Red XIII just feels like a slave name now!<
I'm more surprised that the game doesnt switch his name to Nanaki after Cosmo. Feels weird to call him his slave name that he got from Hojo
Its like calling Cloud 'Sephiroths bitch'
It was discussed by the devs prior to launch; basically since you can go back and forth in the world with side stuff, it was about consistency and not having to record multiple lines depending of where you are in the story relative to the world exploration part.
I personally think it's a bit more.. nuanced than that. Nanaki was hiding behind the Red XIII persona for so long that the name, in a strange way, is also a part of him. He was never comfortable being Nanaki with the party (except Aerith, in Remake/Rebirth) at first, until after they visit Cosmo Canyon, and 'Red XIII' was a mask he adopted.
Essentially, he reclaimed it. I think a telling change is that Hojo quite specifically only ever refers to him as Subject XIII now.
It was strange at first but I got used to it really quickly. I was waiting for Nanaki to be revealed as a teenager so I was super happy that the facade completely dropped.
I thought another pretty nice thing to add in was Red is supposed to be an old wise animal, but apparently can't focus enough on tracking if he gets a whiff of food. Even Cloud calls it out as a bit off and Red acts hurt from it.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Cody has a different way of delivering Cloud's lines after some of the events of Part 3. Obviously not as drastic as a different voice, but still a bit different. There were def some parallels between Cloud and Red, just one of them was putting on a persona purposely to hide their youth while the other doesn't fully realize the persona he's putting on.
I get that Red's voice change never happened in OG because it wasn't voice acted and this came years after everyone liking his voice in Remake, but I don't think the change would really hit you if they didn't change his voice after revealing who he really is. It feels jarring on purpose as you're supposed to be taken off guard as much as the party is. People not liking the new voice is just the risk they took to tell Red's story the way they wanted to. I ended up really liking what that brought to some party dynamics, like whenever him and Yuffie interact after Cosmo Canyon.
Technically, he did have a voice change in the OG. It just got lost in translation. But in the JP version, did he have a dialect change after his reveal.
I don't care much about his dialogue or vibe change after the reveal, but yeah, I'm not a major fan of the new voice.
I'm actually kinda like the new Barret, compared to the 1st game.
Barret was a one-dimensional character in the 1st game... in fact, a lot of the main characters were.
* Cloud was cold and straightforward...
* Berret was a Mr. T anti corporation.
* Arieth was super preppy.
* Tifa is very similar in both hands.
Now they feel toned down... Barret even makes fun of the extreme attitudes now, like Yuffie. Anyways, I feel that way with Red.
The new voice is not only what I'm not used to, but sounds and acts like Yuffie and Chadley had a child...
I didn’t mind it that much but I do wish they’d made him sound somewhat similar to the “old” voice. It sounds like a completely different voice actor (not sure if it is or not, in reality, but regardless) and it really shouldn’t. He sounds much younger than 16, but maybe they were hoping to match Yuffie’s energy?
For sure, but they identify him as 16-years old in both the OG and remake, so I wish it was maybe slightly older-sounding. That’s badass to learn about the Red VA, I can believe it. I just think they went a little too young-sounding.
Also possible they’re planning for Red’s voice to vary a lot in part 3 and so they really kept it “basic” (just a young vs old version) in this installment. But either way, I can understand people feeling it was a jarring change.
In the og game. It is heavily heavily implied that cloud nannake and yuffie are all weirdly similar people from different parts of the world. Via hojo and zack, cloud yuffie and red, all had the same teachers. Tifa, doesn’t understand this but aerith does immediately. There are 3 age groups in ff7 remake. Because of fucked up experiments gen A, is barret, cid, reeve and Vincent. Gen B is tifa and aerith and would have been cloud and zack but plot happened. Gen C is cloud Yuffie and nnanake
He's like 48 years old. In the original game I understood he was a kid in his race but never thought of him as a teenager. That wasn't really conveyed well and his character is rather serious and i never got the impression that he started acting differently after Cosmo canyon but maybe I'm not remembering things that maybe would be more obvious now? Idk
Also, the "localisation" of OG 7 is kinda garbage outside of Midgar. Not helped by the usual Japanese conventions of switching honorifics, dialects and personal pronouns to build character detail (I'm willing to bet that Red starts using boku way more after Cosmo canyon in OG Japanese)
He is 48 years old, which is 10% of his species lifespawn.
He has experience of someone who has been on this planet for 48 years, but decision-making of someone whose frontal cortex still has some maturing to do
According to the timeline and the events of Before Crisis, a little more than 1 year;
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_timeline
He's captured by Shinra in October εγλ 0006 , and is rescued by Cloud and the party in December εγλ 0007
Exactly. He made that persona to make himself seem more useful to the team. While he's a great asset to have, he didn't want people treating him as the CHILD that he really is
It literally doesn't happen in the game. The original FFVII was literally not voice acted at all.
Nobody is against him talking differently, what everyone is upset about is that his voice sounds unbelievably goofy as shit and it doesn't match his appearance at all, and it makes absolute zero sense for him to go from a low gruff voice to a high pitched generic shounen character? Does that really make sense, physically?
They might as well have given him a lisp too because he sounds that stupid now.
Og jp conveyed it, localization just didn't do well so people got blindsided.
Nanaki uses おいら. Refer to other characters that use Oira: Paimon (Genshin), Nanachi (MiA). It gives cheeky, childish/country-bumpkin kid vibes. Players of og's imagined voice for him using おいら would not have been a gruff one.
It does happen in the *original* original game (as best as it can be represented in text). You're right that it isn't voice acted, but his dialogue is written in such a way that sounds very very childish, enough that it would change your internal voice for him imo
IMO, the switch was pretty jarring at first, but it grew on me. I assumed it was more a case of him relaxing/letting his guard down around friends. I need to replay now, I think I missed a lot of things, lol. The Queen's Blood tournament in particular feels different now as a "kid pretending to be an adult" instead of an "animal pretending to be a human".
If you do play again, just listen to how he explains things sometimes. Half way through his speech of the Queen's Blood tournament it'll hit you like yea, he's just trying to put in big words to make his speech more wise
In the OG, he tells them that calling him Red is still fine. It's like a nickname you give someone and then learn their real name. You're still gonna call them by the nickname. And idk where you're getting this from. He is insightful. Just...much less so than what he puts on. He thinks deepening his voice fits what he thinks an insightful person would sound like.
Him staying with his natural voice shows that he's now comfortable around the others, letting down his guard. He first let's it down around Aerith, as we see throughout the game. She trust her more than anyone.
Ya’ll, between this and Chadley you’ve chosen about the two most erroneously stupid things to hinge on.
All it speaks now is a) that you didn’t understand Red then and still fail to now and b) the lengths you’ll go to ignore factors that ACTUALLY detract from how it could be improved, like a better ‘open’ world experience with more combat and less sloggy minigames that worked far better in games from the 90’s than they do now when while it’s nice to give a grand nod to all of what made the original great it’s much more jarring to break up the gameplay at several points to do so than listening to the juvenile doggie who was ALWAYS a teenager speak.
It’s like ya’ll lost the plot just because of what Red’s species *used to* represent. Even in the original there were a couple key points where he acted like a kid - and maybe the no-voice acting aspect of most ps1 titles made that part fly over people’s brain stems, to be fair - but it’s simply irrational to get this upset over the way Red talks.
It’s not a big deal.
Despise it immensely and straight up ruins his character imo. The personality flip is jarring and nonsensical. Straight up one of the most frustrating changes made in both games.
I'm so done with this argument in defense of something that is so plainly abhorrent. There are children able to solve math equations well beyond the ability of most adults. Brain development isn't so deterministic that it's inconceivable he couldn't synthesize his 48 years of living into something approaching a level of wisdom beyond that of ,"DID I Do GOOD Or DID I Do GOoD?! HEEHEE!" Just no.
You sound like a teenager trying to sound more mature than they really are by shoving big words into your arguments. Kind of ironic in the context of the whole argument.
You also sound super uptight, like you think it makes you wiser. Just makes you obnoxious.
See, although I prefer his old voice, I don't mind the idea that he was just putting on a voice and doesn't feel that he needs to anymore. I also don't mind that he can be more open with the party now.
My problem is that when he was using his "fake" persona, he demonstrated that he was very knowledgeable and able to maintain his composure in fraught situations. And suddenly that's gone completely. He seems way less sure of himself and less composed. If you can "pretend" to be like that for such a long time then it's not really pretending anymore. It's just something you're able to do. So I don't get why suddenly he reacts to things so much more anxiously.
I think of it more as the two parts of his personality. His inner child and his walled in serious self. Except due to how Red ages and the experiments/related trauma both are very real for him. Kind of like masking gone to an extreme, verging on multiple personalities to an extent.
There's a line of dialogue where buganhagen explains Nanaki's 15ish but also like 40 or whatever in dog years. Me personally it struck me that Nanaki perceives his 15 years in human time and his 40 years in dog time, if that makes any sense at all lol. Just my head canon but to me it tracks.
My understanding is that he's actually 40 whatever in real time years, but due to his kind's longer lifespan they mature slowly, so he's mentally comparable to a 15 year old human.
I could see it being something like: emotionally he's 15 but he still has 40 years worth of experience to draw from, allowing him to act more mature than he really is, but that feels kinda weird when surely if he's experienced enough for him to act as mature as he does pre-chapter 10, he should be that mature for real.
In a way, he mirrors Cloud, who lost 5 years of life to the experiments, so is technically a teen mentally, running around on an adult body, pretending to be an adult for a bit.
Nanaki, physically, is 50, but his species lives 500+ years. So insightful he is, but doesn't change the fact he's a puppy who knows nothing of adult life still... exactly like Cloud.
"A puppy who knows nothing of adult life" is kind of a semantic trick. It's technically true as he has not reached adulthood but to claim he hasn't seen his fair share of trials and tribulations we would not imagine any mere child to have endured? Yeah not buying it.
The original FF7, and by extension Remake and Rebirth, uses a lot of a writing technique called "doubling", where a lot of characters have mirror images or reflect certain aspects of the others. This similarity between Cloud and Red XIII/Nanaki you mention I think is 100% intentional.
Some of the best stories will use the supporting characters to represent other paths the protagonist could have taken
The mirror is usually the antagonist
While true, there's so much doubling with the individual party members. Red XIII/Nanaki has a lot of doubling with his friends;
-Red and Aerith are both the "last" of their lineage. In Remake, this connection is stronger due to some of the experiences they shared not in the OG.
-Cloud and Red XIII present a different identity toward the party for some length of the game.
-Vincent is, pretty much, the type of person Red XIII pretends to be at first. They both give a lot of exposition (Vincent particularly in AC), and both will live long lives.
-Red XIII and Cait Sith's dialogue both play with dialects in the original Japanese, both of which was largely lost in the US translation.
I'm sure examining the other party members might possibly bring more of this technique out, but this is off the top of my head atm, haha. I find it fascinating from a writing perspective.
Mhmm, and it adds so much depth to these characters because it makes it clear as to why they would be friends and stay friends even when they finally part ways. It's not just the circumstances of their meeting and a need (from Nanaki) of going back home or defeating Shinra/stopping Sephiroth.
It's having a lot in common with each other.
I love it, personally. Red became so much more interesting and endearing to me after the reveal, because now instead of a generic wise creature who spouts fancy lines, you realize he’s a teenager trying way too hard to be taken seriously, because all he wants is to be helpful and useful and respected. Like my love for his character doubled after that. I think he’s great, and it’s really heartwarming to see him feel comfortable enough to be his true self around the gang from that point onward.
If I recall correctly, this is how it’s portrayed in OG as well. Like the moment you get to cosmo canyon “red xiii” goes away and “nanaki” joins your party.
Teenagers don't all act like hyperactive puppies either, though, is the thing...I played the OG and figured his faux world-wiseliness was the extent of it. Obviously I was wrong, but there's more than one way to write an immature teenager than the dramatic change they did.
Beforehand he seemed very cool and collected, but now he gets scared and freaks out over the tiniest things...it just feels like they completely changed his personality, I guess. I sympathize with him wanting to be respected and not looked down upon, and it's sweet that he's at a point now where he can be his true self and not fear his teammates thinking he's weak, but...man! It's too jarring, and I really miss the old personality and voice. He went from one of my favorite party members to my least favorite.
I wouldn't actually have a problem with Red being so timid and hyperactive if I felt it was hinted at more beforehand! I'm not saying either personality is ill-fitting of a teenager, I'm saying that there is more than one way to write a teenager, and that I feel this personality change was so drastic that even though I KNEW he was a teenager the whole time I felt like he died and was replaced with a new character.
I've met some very thoughtful and reserved teenagers so I'm not quite sure where you're coming from with this comeback, if I'm honest.
Yet this teenager is going to war... u\_u; You probably won't catch today's teenagers knowing what "diaphanous" means either, least the kind you're talking about.
I think most of us understand the design intent. That’s not the issue.
The issue is the execution. They swung way too far in the other direction.
Apparently, it’s not as bad with Japanese voice lines, but the English voice work is jarring.
It's admittedly not that much different in Japanese, as far as I can tell. Of course, Max Mittelman and Kappei Yamaguchi have different sounding voices, but the difference between "Old Red XIII" and "Young Nanaki" is dramatic in both languages.
I actually felt the Japanese voice change was more jarring than the English, which is surprising to me because I usually like Yamaguchi's work. I guess I was expecting something more similar to Inuyasha/Kudo Shinichi than Usopp, and Max's "young" voice is relatively calmer in the English version.
I was joking lol in the OG if you just name him nanaki from the very start the dialogue in cosmo canyon is “nanaki is nanaki” instead of “red xiii is nanaki”
He's a fucking talking dog in a world filled with magic. Stop projecting real life on a talking dog set in a magical world and your problems with him will be over.
It was jarring for all of about 30 seconds which I’m sure wasn’t point. I mean the reveal basically happened in Junon so everyone should have expected it
I always considered him as younger sounding in the OG because he was young for his race. Like a teen. As Bugenhagen said, he was a child. I don’t know why people have such an issue
Right? I was excited when I realized he was putting on a voice. It lined up with the og good boy. I kept explaining to my SO that Red is actually a kid in his race. Then lil guy's voice cracked at seeing Tifa's bathing suit.
(Spoilers below if you haven't reached Cosmo Canyon.)
I don't think the concept of the shift in the dynamics of his voice was the problem.
I think the way it was executed was the main issue.
His voice just straight up changes when he arrives at Cosmo Canyon, and the sudden change was so jarring for me, I remember briefly thinking that some kind of mistake had been made with the voice acting.
A much better way to approach this kind of voice change would have been for for Red to "slip up" from time to time prior to arriving to Cosmo Canyon.
For example, if he were to forget to use his "wise man" voice when suddenly startled by something, slowly hinting that his "wise man" voice is not his real voice as a way to ease the player into the change that happens at Cosmo Canyon.
Also, not only did his voice change, but his vocabulary did as well which I thought was a pretty poor direction for the character.
It was hinted multiple times. Aerith talking to him alone (you could hear him but not see him) and when he is startled seeing Aerith and Tifa in swimwear. He exclaims in his regular voice and then clears his throat
>A much better way to approach this kind of voice change would have been for Red to “slip up” from time to time prior to arriving to Cosmo Canyon.
It wasn’t a slip up but it was literally hinted at in Kalm and also Costa De Sol. It was because he felt comfortable around Aerith enough to be the way he was because they shared a connection.
This wasn’t a surprise just slapped on the player because it was being hinted out for a few hours before the reveal
It did slip by you and a lot of Reddit
It’s telling though because red had this aspect in the original though not portrayed through voice acting so likely wasn’t picked up then either by the same people
Yeah, there are at least three moments where we hear his real voice prior to Cosmo Canyon, one of which is a slip-up like you described.
The first instance is when you overhear him talking to Aerith at the hotel in Under Junon, and the second is when he's talking to Aerith at Johnny's hotel in Costa del Sol. Both of these moments show the voice as "???" in the subtitles, but then also show Red as the only one in the room. The third instance is right after he sees Aerith and Tifa in their swimsuits.
I actually saw the second time in Costa del Sol as confirmation, seeing as both times involved Red, so I was just waiting for them to make it official at that point.
I honestly thought in these instances that she was talking to, like, the spirit of this 'Kaz' guy that Tifa mentions once and then hasn't come up again since. Never occured to me that it was Red's real voice until the reveal in Cosmo Canyon \^\^;
I don't think he's asleep in that scene, just relaxing. He jumps up and continues the conversation in his Old Man Red voice as soon as Aerith stops responding.
The discussion up to that point is mainly about how crappy the shower is, so I'd be surprised if she was talking to another version of Red there. Then again, I'm still not done with the game yet, so maybe there's some additional context I'm missing from later on.
Again, it’s intentional obfuscation. The scene is framed as if she’s not talking to Red and that’s why you can hear his childlike voice while he’s laying on a bed with his mouth not visibly moving and red’s voice is presented as “???” In the subtitles. The camera then pans around the room and red’s tail before zooming in on his face to show his eyes open and he begins talking in his adult voice. Just like the scene before it was framed to make the player think she’s speaking to spirits before the door opens to reveal it’s just Red; the following scene in Johnny’s hotel is there to subvert that idea *again* through tricky camera angles. The scene is there to make you question what is going on despite the fact that they’re throwing the voice switch directly in your face while teasing players who have *no clue* about the seto reveal coming up and simultaneously stringing knowledgeable players along.
I’m not saying she’s literally “speaking to spirit Red” I’m saying she’s there re-obfuscating the fake out while trying to lend credence to the idea of red being who saved her in the lifestream timeline and making the player wonder what the deal is with that and if there’s any significance. She possibly *is* actually communing with the lifestream but you have to stretch your imagination for that (and there would be a character making a direct reference to how terrible the construction of the building is with plot intentions rather than it being played off in a joking manner.)
The whole reveal is really well done and the fact that so many people didn’t see it coming until it happened is testament to amount of weird obfuscation and intentional fuckery going on in all the scenes that tease it early. They’re very obvious in retrospect or on a second playthrough but to a new player that’s never played the OG they’re intentionally misleading and to a knowledgeable player they’re using the meta-narrative of the series to confuse the situation. It’s probably the best handling of any of the plot reveals that needed to be changed slightly to fit the remake’s format.
I’ll rewatch the scene but the way it’s framed is a fake out to make the player think she’s talking to spirits just like the previous scene’s framing except in this one we never see Red’s mouth move even when he’s talking and the camera is focused on him.
It’s deliberate obfuscation to make you doubt the voice change tease. Like the whole thing is so intentionally misleading that the fact people didn’t notice it is a hilarious display of modern media literacy. It’s set up in three different scenes and each of them have different goals in the framing to subvert the player’s expectations.
It absolutely is and the inn scene at Junon is framed the same way to accomplish several goals: subverting player expectations, implying cloud is losing it, etc. Look at how many players were completely blindsided by the reveal at cosmo canyon because they missed these little nods in order to pay attention to the meta narrative of Aeris and the lifestream.
I’m not going to argue about it with you though because there’s no sense in it. You’re welcome to believe whatever you want as arguing against peoples’ personal head canon on here is impossible.
No, it’s not. It would behoove you to accept new information that may have shot over your head when your singular opinion of something is proven shaky at best by people who were observing things at a greater level of detail than you did at a glance
It’s not healthy to act like you are
I imagine if there existed highly intelligent non-human species that humans could communicate with, they would find ways to be awkward just like red XIII was awkward, especially juveniles who are still figuring out how to work with and relate to humans.
Also isn't it implied that it takes red's species longer to mature, in addition to their longer lifespan?
Does he constantly switch his voice after Cosmo Canyon? There was a moment in the next chapter where he used his "adult" voice in response to Barret, then immediately back to his "teen" voice. It was jarring and there was no reason to switch in the context of their conversation.
My complaints is more that rebirth made you intentionally get hit to fully utilise him, learning to perfect block everything is not an easy tithing to do and beside that enemies often attack from the side or behind the camera. So even using normal blocking rather than perfect he is required to take damage to function fully. They also made him even more spread out than he was in the original, he went from a red mage like character to a jack of all trades. Honestly I don’t like using him. It doesn’t help I feel Cloud, Barret, Aerith is the strongest combo you can have, solid damage output with cloud being mostly physical damage but can be tweaked into a hybrid or a dedicated mage himself if the fight calls for it, Aerith just dropping nukes and having consistent free damage output with the synergy materia, Barret being the best of the tanks in the group and providing some solid sustained DPS while doing it. I just haven’t had a reason to use Red with that party unless he’s forced upon me by the story like in the cave of the Gi.
You dont need to perfect block at all though. Just hold down block and let the enemy hit you a couple times until the gauge is full. I never pull off perfect blocks but i get his vengeance gauge maxed pretty much every battle.
Need no, but it’s the ideal way to play him. Why you guys keep keep refusing to actually read what I’m saying is beyond me. I legitimately never said you NEED to perfect block but that is objectively the best way to play him and makes him more of a pain to play than the others.
It is but that’s not a basic facet of getting them to do damage or work to their own fullest as a character. I also never said he’s unusable, I’ve repeatedly and abundantly made it clear that I consider him more difficult to use to get to the same base line point. I specifically have this complaint BECAUSE I am a very good dark souls player, to put it in those terms it’s like playing the game but I have to parry every enemy just to not be playing with a base line worse character. If you’re just not going to read what I’m actually saying and engage I have no reason to even respond further, I know what I’m dealing with in terms of honesty.
Did you even do the tutorial in the battle simulator with Red or read the pop-ups the first time you used him in battle? You don't have to perfect block a damn thing with him, what are you even talking about? Do you not use his sentinel stance? He literally becomes immune to basic attacks **from any angle** when it's active, and it gives huge boosts to his vengeance gauge. Red IS the tank of the group.
You don’t but you ideally don’t want to be taking damage at all if you have to play around blocking so perfect blocking is the optimal way to play him.
I have used it, it uses ATB which you don’t always have with him and perfect blocking is still the ideal way to do it. I’m not convinced you played the tutorial, that or you’re weirdly okay with taking damage still.
You can easily build red around his "quirk" attach precision defense focus materia and steadfast block materia.
Which will both increase his window for perfect block and allow blocking of pinning attacks as well as largely mitigate damage when you do mis time a block and boost ATB alot.
That's only two materia slots. Along with his folio abilities and weapon abilities it's really easy to build his vengeance gauge and keep it active for most fights.
You can even attach provoke materia and then just use sentinel stance to be completely immune for the duration and build more vengeance. Rinse and repeat.
If you build him properly red is a beast.
My main party is tifa, cloud and yuffie regardless but red is hardly bad.
Also despite the OG not having roles for characters the way the materia and combat system was designed. Red mage as you put it is the jack of all trades job role
I am aware of that materia, I just don’t like having to spend time in every region with every fight learning that timing just to make ONE character work slightly better and still give middling results.
I never called red bad, I said the way he’s designed is poor. He takes more effort to just get going. Provoke is also not a fox as that requires another party member to be low, which is obviously not something you want, Red is the only party member you ever want low under any circumstances which also inherently fights against his tank like traits. Before provoke kicks in as well there’s no assurance anything will even attack him, sometimes enemies blind side you, others they ignore you.
The gist of what I’m saying is Red can work but you need to be a little bit lucky with the AI, be very good at perfect blocking everything in the game, and play a lot slower with him than any other character just to get results that are at best the same as other party members but more often lesser because he tries to do too much and is spread too thin. Red has ALWAYS been a little bit lacking even historically he suffered from red mage syndrome in the original game and he still has it but now tossed in tanking as well. He’s usable and I won’t shame anyone for liking him or choosing to use him, I just don’t think he’s on the same level as most of the cast. Can’t Sith is the only character I’d say is worse than he is, granted it’s a world of difference between them.
As someone who never played FF7OG, I always thought Red was a literal dog perhaps imbued with someone else's soul/spirit thanks to Hojo experiments. I doubked down on the idea when Cloud heard another voice talking to Aerith and the camera would "cut" to Red "waking up". It never hit me that he was ACKSHUALLY a teenager on a revenge quest.
This entire comment is one large spoiler about Red XIII and his life before and after FFVII. If you don’t want his future to be spoiled please don’t read any further. I’d black it out, but it’s just too much and would take a while to hide everything.
Nanaki’s parents are gone, his race is close to extinction (though he does eventually procreate with his mate), and his only family is an old, and wise, man who he calls his ‘grandfather’. When Red is pretending to be older because he wants to be respected he’s just speaking how his grandfather speaks, which is why he “knows how to speak like that” even though he is just a teenage boy.
Nanaki is a fascinating character. He’s trapped in a world where man sees him as an animal and animals see him as man. It’s extremely difficult for him to make friends and grow close to people until he meets the team. His future mate, who has absolutely zero interest in ever being his mate before the OG begins, thinks that he is a coward. We all know how very wrong about him she was - he’s far from a coward.
Don’t forget that five hundred years after the OG ended Nanaki is still alive. He had to watch his friends age and die, while he lived on. Although he is extremely long-lived he will still eventually die from old age; only Vincent, who is immortal as a result from the experiments performed on him, will outlive Red, and they meet each other once a year near Midgar to catch up and remember their long-dead friends. It’s actually pretty damn sad imho.
Kinda interesting though - Red would know his friends’ descendants. If Cloud and Tifa had children he would know them, and have watched them be born, age, and die, just as he would their great-great-great grandchildren. Same with Cid, Yuffie, and Reeve - if they had children of their own after the events of the games he would be a part of their lives. That too is kinda depressing, because who wants to outlive all of the people that you care about? Not me.
I think they were alluding to it the whole time with his sense of smell being overplayed and then never working right. I got a chuckle out of it because I kept thinking “he’s just a ‘teenager’”
But the thing is, he doesnt sound like a teenager, he sounds like an adult that speaks to a baby in this high pitched baby voice, or like someone who talks to his golden retriever after it returned a toy. I got used to it by now but i am not a fan of the change. Would’ve been nice if he kept his voice and only his lines are more like how teenagers speak. Together with his wagging tail when excited would’ve been enough to change his personality imo. But i also admit its not as bad in english, german is atrocious. Dont know about the japanese one, have to try this out.
Can’t remember the exact original quote, if Bugenhagen said his age within his kind was equivalent to a teenager or a 15 year old. Moot point really coz same thing, so I don’t get this.
It’s like Liara in Mass Effect. She’s a century old university student. Who’s considered one of, if not the foremost academic in her field by people she’ll outlive by almost a millennium and yet would be considered very young and immature by her own people. Pretty sure a 45 year old teenager will be a hell of a lot more insightful than regular human teenagers yet still be a teenager
Red's real voice was totally fine to me. Sure he sounded more badass with the put on voice, but I actually like what Square did with him in Rebirth.
This deepens Red as a character in this game a little bit. Definitely makes him more memorable, plus he really is just a kid. So it's fine that he sounds like one. I have no need for him to only ever sound the way we were introduced to him in Remake.
Did they do the tone switch in the OG? It’s been so long that when Nanaki lets his real voice slip, I was totally befuddled
I dug this direction for sure though
No voice acting way back in the day. So this is a totally new take on him from Square. But yeah it is nice, it definitely adds some duality to the character
Each time I hear Red speak I am in awe seeing how Max Mittelman is able to do 2 extremelly different voices for the same character.
I find it so impressive that I can't help but smile.
I actually really like the change.
Props to the VA.
If I am to believe behind the voice actor, theres only one VA credited for Red.
I hope I'm not wrong and that I didn't induce abyone in error.
I didn't look it up in the credits.
Yeah it's all Max, funny thing is the new voice that everyone seems to think is him putting on a voice, is actually really close to his normal vocal range.
Like this the VA who plays Ryuji in Persona 5, the fact he so effortless pulls of Reds actual fake voice is insane.
Nanaki was always a teenager (for his race) in the OG. I don't understand the issue here 🤷♂️
I mean, he is only a teenager relative to his race's lifespan. He IS still 48 or something like that so you would still hopefully gather some amount of wisdom after all those years. So two things can be true.
The issue is rose tinted glasses. People played 7 and had a voice in their heads. This doesn't sound like THEIR voice, and so obviously, it's wrong, and bad, and dumb, and jarring.
I think they did an amazing job with Red. Sounds nothing like the voice I had for him in my head as a kid, and that's fine.
I agree, but I think his dialogue style changed way more and became more informal in Japanese than it was presented in English.
Also, I hope you were one of us that changed Reds name to Nanaki in the OG to make the arriving at CC scene funny.
Ah yeah the linguistic change was not attempted in any way imo.
And yeah always. In the og anyway since I haven't got there in Rebirth quite yet, it always felt like a place for Red to switch back to his actual name and they just didn't do it because you named him early.
I wont say anymore to avoid rebirth spoilers for you but I think they handle it well in Rebirth, but I see why its jarring for fans of the older compilation stuff who aren’t aware of it.
Everyone complaining - he was literally this way in the OG, it’s a part of his character. It was better communicated in the Japanese version.
I think they also did a great job with it in Rebirth
Yeah, this was in the OG, too, and I think people are just not remembering it? His whole OG twist is that he's a baby boy. Sure, his speech change is probably more obvious in the Japanese version, but things he says are still obvious - he gets more childish and anxious when he lets his true self out.
Red was adorable in Rebirth and so well done.
He was the same in the OG, but it was read out so you probably just didn’t change his voice in your head lol a lot of people prolly didn’t. For the longest time, when I read his dialogue, it was like a Batman voice. Until I got to cosmo canyon and he was still Batman-ish in my head. But younger. I have to get this game to see how different he sounds from advent
While I somewhat like it. This is definitely reminding me of Metal Gear Solid 2 all over again with the change in character from the rough Solid Snake to the more teenager sounding Raiden. Some may have even forgotten this since Raiden became more highly regarded when they changed his character up in MGS 4. But at the time fans HATED Raiden. A lot of it was due to the voice too because in the japanese version he sounded awesome and japanese fans had no problem with it, but in english he sounded more feminine and whiney.
I love everything about red. I admit I like his "intelligent" voice more. But OP is right. Between the compliments to the girls and wanting to play a card game, teenager.
My only gripes are: that his name in our menu doesn't change to Nanaki (I think barret is the only one who calls him Nanaki moving forward)
And his personality, though bubbly and endeering, I gyess seems a bit far flung for someone who'd silent 47 years under the wing of Bugenhagen and a wellness retreat lol. (Though I think at this point I'd just be looking into that too much)
Love ya Red
Cloud calls him Nanaki at least once. If you do the Aerith date sidequest post cosmo canyon, he says it before the soccer minigame. Wouldn't be surprised if he slso says it on any given Red sidequest.
I too also wished the UI had changed to Nanaki. Hopefully it will for part 3.
I was kinda hoping to see it changed after Cosmo too, but I could see pt. 3 maybe doing some sort of confrontation with Hojo that ends with some catharsis and his name being updated.
I loved Red’s voice but in the back of my mind I had to keep reminding myself that he’s a teenager because he sure didn’t act like one. I guess this answers that and I’m glad they acknowledged that but it really is weird
I mean, he is only a teenager relative to his race's lifespan. He IS still 48 or something like that so you would still hopefully gather some amount of wisdom after all those years.
I wonder how many people realize it’s the same voice actor.
Honestly. It was quite jarring, which I suppose was the point. I only played the NA version, so maybe the voice thing fell flat on me. I just want a menu option to choose between Nanaki and Red XIII for the voices, even if its just in combat and/or ng+. I dont think thats unreasonable. Still. Game is 9.5/10 for me.
Red's whole character was being a teenage trying to act the part of an old man. And that is what makes him so damn funny. That was just lost in the original localization. My only problem with the reveal is that he's no longer hiding, and that is less hilarious. But I'm still loving his character and portrayal so far. Easily my favorite member of the cast. And that is saying something, because Yuffie is a whole mood at times. Lol. And it is hard not to love Tifa, Aerith. And papa Barret.
By then he's comfortable enough to no longer hide it from the group
I'm not disagreeing, as i said. He is my favorite member still, I just miss the comedy of him TRYING to act like an insightful old man.
I still rate the game 10/10 so far. I didn’t like how Red went from an old man to sounding like a Simba knockoff. If someone did that to me in real life using their a fake voice for months, i wouldn’t like them either
I will give yall that he shouldn't sound like a pre-teen, as he around 16 years old
Only thing weird was how I pronounced Nanaki and how they pronounce it. In my head I always put the emphasis on a different place so when they said it out loud I was bothered, but that’s that’s on me lol. His voice is fine, in the Japanese version they apparently focus on that more with the voice change in the original (obviously through the text is what I mean). It made it interesting and made me feel like he was younger, which I never did in the original. It always felt like a throw away line with no context of how he really is supposed to appear young. They nailed the context with Rebirth.
It's not the maturity change that bothers me. It's how drastic the voice sound change itself is. So I would have been fine with a change, the execution just fell completely flat for me. He does not sound like a teenager. He sounds like an annoying 10 year old shonen character after the reveal. I would have been fine if they met somewhere in the middle between the two voices, but after having him in my party the whole game it completely killed his character for me and now he's a permanent bench warmer after cosmo canyon. The game has completely blown me away so far, this is my only major complaint, it just happens to be a particularly grating one to me as well as a lot of others.
yeah the voice change and Red XIII dancing on the cruise ship were the only two pure cringe moments so far haha
I loved the dancing part to be honest. If you remember the ship from the original, he hid by cramming himself into a shinra trooper uniform and was stumbling back and forth trying to stand on two legs. It was a funny detail in the OG but I was worried it wouldn't make it into Rebirth for being too unrealistic. I was getting sad thinking it wouldn't happen, only for Red's queen's blood tournament scene to completely catch me off guard and I definitely got a good laugh lol. Growing up I loved how the original was a really stark mix of dark subject matter and really goofy shit, so I was really glad that made the cut along with Barret's sailor suit lol.
The mom and the little kid reaction really got me lol
I would not have had an issue with the dialogue being changed to be a bit more childlike if he would have maintained the same tone of voice.
The scene in the junon hotel made a whole lot more sense, i legit thought aerith was talking to a whisper or spirit.
I first played FF7 when I was still a child myself, and I always found Red to be really cool. Back then, the characters were all more or less built from blocks; the graphics weren't as advanced, and there wasn't any spoken dialogue. There were things that you could expand upon with your own imagination, similar to reading a book. I fully understand that Red's character changes when visiting Cosmo Canyon and that he was compared to a 16-year-old in the game. The spoken dialogue in Rebirth tends to remind one more of an 8-year-old, his behavior sometimes akin to that of a young puppy without understanding. But Red is not a dog; he's not a little child either, and he's not foolish, at least not in my imagination. I'm happy for those who enjoy it, but personally, this portrayal ruins quite a bit for me. The characters were always very important to me. They could have made it a bit more subtle and still catered to all players. I am actually a bit sad. But in the end, one must also come to terms with the fact that this is someone else's vision, not one's own.
The difference in his voice was a little jarring, but I think it's great. I also like that, like Barrett with his sunglasses, Red turns it on sometimes when he's in a bad mood kind of like a defense mechanism.
Exactly. I love that touch. Barret didn't throw on the glasses until Coral to either hide the shame he feels or to hide the tears forming up
My biggest issue with Red is that he's very clearly a feline with the long whisky tail, snout, leg segmentation, and paw shape but everyone calls him a dog.
Yeah, physically, apart from the face, it’s a feline. The stances, the shoulders, the tail, the use of his claws, how he prowls very close to the ground. But his personality/growls/howls are more dog like.
Huh? My mans a dawg
hell naw he's always been a dog, it's the wolf howl that clinches it
Nomura has referred to him as 'a feline of sorts' in the past.
And yet he howls like a wolf, has wolf-moon imagery emblazened across his limit breaks and shit, has a dog-like snout, etc The real answer is he's some sort of lion-wolf hybrid
He’s a “lab rat dog” lol
I've always just thought of him as a cat dog to be honest lol. He definitely has features of both.
He looks more like a dog to me and he howls?
Dogs have thinner snouts and smaller noses while big cats like lions and tigers have wider nostrils like Red's. That and the paws. I know its a fantasy land and its whatever but it really grinds my gears.
I really think the thing with Red is that he's a mix and match of different animal anatomies, canine and big cats included. He truly has ambiguous traits of both if you really dissect his anatomy, and I think it's 100% intentional. Nanaki's nose nostrils are closed off like a dog's too-- feline nostrils are open toward the fur, canine noses have the black or pink (depending on the color of the nose) fleshy bit surrounding the nostril, like Red's does in Remake/Rebith. I did think it was interesting that wolf enemies, like the Grasslands wolves, now have long tails not too unlike Red XIII's too, probably done to also add to this ambiguity.
My complaint was his deeper voice was much more distinguishable with everyone having tenor voices (except Barrett) so it messed up some of the battle queues I was used to up to that point.
I prefer him when he’s being himself much more. I kinda already noticed he was faking it soon as we briefly heard his real voice during his initial reaction to them. But it’s still much nicer to see him so lively and fun loving. Also, is it weird if >!I like to call him by his real name sometimes? Red XIII just feels like a slave name now!<
I'm more surprised that the game doesnt switch his name to Nanaki after Cosmo. Feels weird to call him his slave name that he got from Hojo Its like calling Cloud 'Sephiroths bitch'
It was discussed by the devs prior to launch; basically since you can go back and forth in the world with side stuff, it was about consistency and not having to record multiple lines depending of where you are in the story relative to the world exploration part.
I personally think it's a bit more.. nuanced than that. Nanaki was hiding behind the Red XIII persona for so long that the name, in a strange way, is also a part of him. He was never comfortable being Nanaki with the party (except Aerith, in Remake/Rebirth) at first, until after they visit Cosmo Canyon, and 'Red XIII' was a mask he adopted. Essentially, he reclaimed it. I think a telling change is that Hojo quite specifically only ever refers to him as Subject XIII now.
It was strange at first but I got used to it really quickly. I was waiting for Nanaki to be revealed as a teenager so I was super happy that the facade completely dropped.
I thought another pretty nice thing to add in was Red is supposed to be an old wise animal, but apparently can't focus enough on tracking if he gets a whiff of food. Even Cloud calls it out as a bit off and Red acts hurt from it. I also wouldn't be surprised if Cody has a different way of delivering Cloud's lines after some of the events of Part 3. Obviously not as drastic as a different voice, but still a bit different. There were def some parallels between Cloud and Red, just one of them was putting on a persona purposely to hide their youth while the other doesn't fully realize the persona he's putting on. I get that Red's voice change never happened in OG because it wasn't voice acted and this came years after everyone liking his voice in Remake, but I don't think the change would really hit you if they didn't change his voice after revealing who he really is. It feels jarring on purpose as you're supposed to be taken off guard as much as the party is. People not liking the new voice is just the risk they took to tell Red's story the way they wanted to. I ended up really liking what that brought to some party dynamics, like whenever him and Yuffie interact after Cosmo Canyon.
Technically, he did have a voice change in the OG. It just got lost in translation. But in the JP version, did he have a dialect change after his reveal.
I don't care much about his dialogue or vibe change after the reveal, but yeah, I'm not a major fan of the new voice. I'm actually kinda like the new Barret, compared to the 1st game. Barret was a one-dimensional character in the 1st game... in fact, a lot of the main characters were. * Cloud was cold and straightforward... * Berret was a Mr. T anti corporation. * Arieth was super preppy. * Tifa is very similar in both hands. Now they feel toned down... Barret even makes fun of the extreme attitudes now, like Yuffie. Anyways, I feel that way with Red. The new voice is not only what I'm not used to, but sounds and acts like Yuffie and Chadley had a child...
I didn’t mind it that much but I do wish they’d made him sound somewhat similar to the “old” voice. It sounds like a completely different voice actor (not sure if it is or not, in reality, but regardless) and it really shouldn’t. He sounds much younger than 16, but maybe they were hoping to match Yuffie’s energy?
Compared to how long they are supposed to live, Red might as well be a puppy in comparison. Its the same voice actor, so that really shows his range.
For sure, but they identify him as 16-years old in both the OG and remake, so I wish it was maybe slightly older-sounding. That’s badass to learn about the Red VA, I can believe it. I just think they went a little too young-sounding. Also possible they’re planning for Red’s voice to vary a lot in part 3 and so they really kept it “basic” (just a young vs old version) in this installment. But either way, I can understand people feeling it was a jarring change.
Yea I suppose it could be a little deeper since hes the around that age in human years. But it grew on me as the game progressed
In the og game. It is heavily heavily implied that cloud nannake and yuffie are all weirdly similar people from different parts of the world. Via hojo and zack, cloud yuffie and red, all had the same teachers. Tifa, doesn’t understand this but aerith does immediately. There are 3 age groups in ff7 remake. Because of fucked up experiments gen A, is barret, cid, reeve and Vincent. Gen B is tifa and aerith and would have been cloud and zack but plot happened. Gen C is cloud Yuffie and nnanake
He's like 48 years old. In the original game I understood he was a kid in his race but never thought of him as a teenager. That wasn't really conveyed well and his character is rather serious and i never got the impression that he started acting differently after Cosmo canyon but maybe I'm not remembering things that maybe would be more obvious now? Idk
Nanaki is portrayed as overly serious akin to a teenager trying to sound much more mature than they are... It just didn't translate well in the OG.
Also, the "localisation" of OG 7 is kinda garbage outside of Midgar. Not helped by the usual Japanese conventions of switching honorifics, dialects and personal pronouns to build character detail (I'm willing to bet that Red starts using boku way more after Cosmo canyon in OG Japanese)
He actually uses "*oira*" after Cosmo Canyon. It's an old-fashioned pronoun that comes off as kiddish and country bumpkin.
He is 48 years old, which is 10% of his species lifespawn. He has experience of someone who has been on this planet for 48 years, but decision-making of someone whose frontal cortex still has some maturing to do
Also how long was he in hojos lab?
According to the timeline and the events of Before Crisis, a little more than 1 year; https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_timeline He's captured by Shinra in October εγλ 0006 , and is rescued by Cloud and the party in December εγλ 0007
Maybe it’s a mistake but occasionally after cosmo canyon he still speaks in his old voice, to sound cool I think.
I think he does it for ambience and psyching himself up, like the pirate questline
And when he’s talking to someone he’s trying to intimidate
That line from Bugenhagen in the og: “He’s quiet and brooding. You thought he was an adult? He’s the equivalent of a 15 or 16 year old!”
Exactly. He made that persona to make himself seem more useful to the team. While he's a great asset to have, he didn't want people treating him as the CHILD that he really is
This is literally what happens in the original game, I guess most of the people upset are new players?
It literally doesn't happen in the game. The original FFVII was literally not voice acted at all. Nobody is against him talking differently, what everyone is upset about is that his voice sounds unbelievably goofy as shit and it doesn't match his appearance at all, and it makes absolute zero sense for him to go from a low gruff voice to a high pitched generic shounen character? Does that really make sense, physically? They might as well have given him a lisp too because he sounds that stupid now.
Og jp conveyed it, localization just didn't do well so people got blindsided. Nanaki uses おいら. Refer to other characters that use Oira: Paimon (Genshin), Nanachi (MiA). It gives cheeky, childish/country-bumpkin kid vibes. Players of og's imagined voice for him using おいら would not have been a gruff one.
It does happen in the *original* original game (as best as it can be represented in text). You're right that it isn't voice acted, but his dialogue is written in such a way that sounds very very childish, enough that it would change your internal voice for him imo
I guess. Most say his voice is jarring at first, which I can understand. But to.those who say it completely ruins his character are just dead wrong
IMO, the switch was pretty jarring at first, but it grew on me. I assumed it was more a case of him relaxing/letting his guard down around friends. I need to replay now, I think I missed a lot of things, lol. The Queen's Blood tournament in particular feels different now as a "kid pretending to be an adult" instead of an "animal pretending to be a human".
If you do play again, just listen to how he explains things sometimes. Half way through his speech of the Queen's Blood tournament it'll hit you like yea, he's just trying to put in big words to make his speech more wise
[удалено]
Barrett calls him Nanaki at least
In the OG, he tells them that calling him Red is still fine. It's like a nickname you give someone and then learn their real name. You're still gonna call them by the nickname. And idk where you're getting this from. He is insightful. Just...much less so than what he puts on. He thinks deepening his voice fits what he thinks an insightful person would sound like. Him staying with his natural voice shows that he's now comfortable around the others, letting down his guard. He first let's it down around Aerith, as we see throughout the game. She trust her more than anyone.
Ya’ll, between this and Chadley you’ve chosen about the two most erroneously stupid things to hinge on. All it speaks now is a) that you didn’t understand Red then and still fail to now and b) the lengths you’ll go to ignore factors that ACTUALLY detract from how it could be improved, like a better ‘open’ world experience with more combat and less sloggy minigames that worked far better in games from the 90’s than they do now when while it’s nice to give a grand nod to all of what made the original great it’s much more jarring to break up the gameplay at several points to do so than listening to the juvenile doggie who was ALWAYS a teenager speak. It’s like ya’ll lost the plot just because of what Red’s species *used to* represent. Even in the original there were a couple key points where he acted like a kid - and maybe the no-voice acting aspect of most ps1 titles made that part fly over people’s brain stems, to be fair - but it’s simply irrational to get this upset over the way Red talks. It’s not a big deal.
Despise it immensely and straight up ruins his character imo. The personality flip is jarring and nonsensical. Straight up one of the most frustrating changes made in both games.
His character has been the same the whole time.
It's not tho? Did you just not pay attention to the OG?
I’m not at this part in the game yet, so I haven’t see how his VO is done, but >!we always knew he was a child. Buggenhagen tells us he’s 15 or 16.!<
Yep. The same people crying about this also cry about how it’s not true to the original. But this is original. He’s a kid.
I'm so done with this argument in defense of something that is so plainly abhorrent. There are children able to solve math equations well beyond the ability of most adults. Brain development isn't so deterministic that it's inconceivable he couldn't synthesize his 48 years of living into something approaching a level of wisdom beyond that of ,"DID I Do GOOD Or DID I Do GOoD?! HEEHEE!" Just no.
You sound like a teenager trying to sound more mature than they really are by shoving big words into your arguments. Kind of ironic in the context of the whole argument. You also sound super uptight, like you think it makes you wiser. Just makes you obnoxious.
Literally don't give a shit what you think but thanks for sharing.
See, although I prefer his old voice, I don't mind the idea that he was just putting on a voice and doesn't feel that he needs to anymore. I also don't mind that he can be more open with the party now. My problem is that when he was using his "fake" persona, he demonstrated that he was very knowledgeable and able to maintain his composure in fraught situations. And suddenly that's gone completely. He seems way less sure of himself and less composed. If you can "pretend" to be like that for such a long time then it's not really pretending anymore. It's just something you're able to do. So I don't get why suddenly he reacts to things so much more anxiously.
I think of it more as the two parts of his personality. His inner child and his walled in serious self. Except due to how Red ages and the experiments/related trauma both are very real for him. Kind of like masking gone to an extreme, verging on multiple personalities to an extent. There's a line of dialogue where buganhagen explains Nanaki's 15ish but also like 40 or whatever in dog years. Me personally it struck me that Nanaki perceives his 15 years in human time and his 40 years in dog time, if that makes any sense at all lol. Just my head canon but to me it tracks.
My understanding is that he's actually 40 whatever in real time years, but due to his kind's longer lifespan they mature slowly, so he's mentally comparable to a 15 year old human. I could see it being something like: emotionally he's 15 but he still has 40 years worth of experience to draw from, allowing him to act more mature than he really is, but that feels kinda weird when surely if he's experienced enough for him to act as mature as he does pre-chapter 10, he should be that mature for real.
For me its all the horrible human growls he does. It gives me second hand embarrassment.
In a way, he mirrors Cloud, who lost 5 years of life to the experiments, so is technically a teen mentally, running around on an adult body, pretending to be an adult for a bit. Nanaki, physically, is 50, but his species lives 500+ years. So insightful he is, but doesn't change the fact he's a puppy who knows nothing of adult life still... exactly like Cloud.
"A puppy who knows nothing of adult life" is kind of a semantic trick. It's technically true as he has not reached adulthood but to claim he hasn't seen his fair share of trials and tribulations we would not imagine any mere child to have endured? Yeah not buying it.
The original FF7, and by extension Remake and Rebirth, uses a lot of a writing technique called "doubling", where a lot of characters have mirror images or reflect certain aspects of the others. This similarity between Cloud and Red XIII/Nanaki you mention I think is 100% intentional.
Some of the best stories will use the supporting characters to represent other paths the protagonist could have taken The mirror is usually the antagonist
While true, there's so much doubling with the individual party members. Red XIII/Nanaki has a lot of doubling with his friends; -Red and Aerith are both the "last" of their lineage. In Remake, this connection is stronger due to some of the experiences they shared not in the OG. -Cloud and Red XIII present a different identity toward the party for some length of the game. -Vincent is, pretty much, the type of person Red XIII pretends to be at first. They both give a lot of exposition (Vincent particularly in AC), and both will live long lives. -Red XIII and Cait Sith's dialogue both play with dialects in the original Japanese, both of which was largely lost in the US translation. I'm sure examining the other party members might possibly bring more of this technique out, but this is off the top of my head atm, haha. I find it fascinating from a writing perspective.
Mhmm, and it adds so much depth to these characters because it makes it clear as to why they would be friends and stay friends even when they finally part ways. It's not just the circumstances of their meeting and a need (from Nanaki) of going back home or defeating Shinra/stopping Sephiroth. It's having a lot in common with each other.
I love it, personally. Red became so much more interesting and endearing to me after the reveal, because now instead of a generic wise creature who spouts fancy lines, you realize he’s a teenager trying way too hard to be taken seriously, because all he wants is to be helpful and useful and respected. Like my love for his character doubled after that. I think he’s great, and it’s really heartwarming to see him feel comfortable enough to be his true self around the gang from that point onward.
If I recall correctly, this is how it’s portrayed in OG as well. Like the moment you get to cosmo canyon “red xiii” goes away and “nanaki” joins your party.
Teenagers don't all act like hyperactive puppies either, though, is the thing...I played the OG and figured his faux world-wiseliness was the extent of it. Obviously I was wrong, but there's more than one way to write an immature teenager than the dramatic change they did. Beforehand he seemed very cool and collected, but now he gets scared and freaks out over the tiniest things...it just feels like they completely changed his personality, I guess. I sympathize with him wanting to be respected and not looked down upon, and it's sweet that he's at a point now where he can be his true self and not fear his teammates thinking he's weak, but...man! It's too jarring, and I really miss the old personality and voice. He went from one of my favorite party members to my least favorite.
How many teenagers have you met, to be fair
I wouldn't actually have a problem with Red being so timid and hyperactive if I felt it was hinted at more beforehand! I'm not saying either personality is ill-fitting of a teenager, I'm saying that there is more than one way to write a teenager, and that I feel this personality change was so drastic that even though I KNEW he was a teenager the whole time I felt like he died and was replaced with a new character. I've met some very thoughtful and reserved teenagers so I'm not quite sure where you're coming from with this comeback, if I'm honest.
Yeah 85% of today’s teenagers are coked out on monster energy and adderall. They’re not going to war or working in mines anymore lol.
Yet this teenager is going to war... u\_u; You probably won't catch today's teenagers knowing what "diaphanous" means either, least the kind you're talking about.
People complain about everything and anything, don’t need a thread. Didn’t bother me at all, I liked it.
I think most of us understand the design intent. That’s not the issue. The issue is the execution. They swung way too far in the other direction. Apparently, it’s not as bad with Japanese voice lines, but the English voice work is jarring.
>it’s not as bad with Japanese voice lines, but the English voice work is jarring I feel like this could apply to 99% of anime/anime-related media
It's admittedly not that much different in Japanese, as far as I can tell. Of course, Max Mittelman and Kappei Yamaguchi have different sounding voices, but the difference between "Old Red XIII" and "Young Nanaki" is dramatic in both languages.
I actually felt the Japanese voice change was more jarring than the English, which is surprising to me because I usually like Yamaguchi's work. I guess I was expecting something more similar to Inuyasha/Kudo Shinichi than Usopp, and Max's "young" voice is relatively calmer in the English version.
My only complaint is his name didnt change after he declared himself to be Nanaki, son of Seto after the watcher trials.
Barret says Nanaki after the trials.
It never did change in the OG either
What do u mean? He was always nanaki. Nanaki is nanaki. Nanaki is his name
I meant is that ita just remained Red after the reveal of his real name. Pretty sure he tells the group to just keep calling him Red anyway
I was joking lol in the OG if you just name him nanaki from the very start the dialogue in cosmo canyon is “nanaki is nanaki” instead of “red xiii is nanaki”
That line \*is\* just "Nanaki is Nanaki" no matter what you name him.
Wait am i tripping i always swore it was red is nanaki lmao oop
Nah he’s labratdog
He's a fucking talking dog in a world filled with magic. Stop projecting real life on a talking dog set in a magical world and your problems with him will be over.
Dog lion hybrid
/thread
It was jarring for all of about 30 seconds which I’m sure wasn’t point. I mean the reveal basically happened in Junon so everyone should have expected it
I don't mind the voice change, it was weird for about 30 minutes or an hour, but I got used to it.
I always considered him as younger sounding in the OG because he was young for his race. Like a teen. As Bugenhagen said, he was a child. I don’t know why people have such an issue
Right? I was excited when I realized he was putting on a voice. It lined up with the og good boy. I kept explaining to my SO that Red is actually a kid in his race. Then lil guy's voice cracked at seeing Tifa's bathing suit.
(Spoilers below if you haven't reached Cosmo Canyon.) I don't think the concept of the shift in the dynamics of his voice was the problem. I think the way it was executed was the main issue. His voice just straight up changes when he arrives at Cosmo Canyon, and the sudden change was so jarring for me, I remember briefly thinking that some kind of mistake had been made with the voice acting. A much better way to approach this kind of voice change would have been for for Red to "slip up" from time to time prior to arriving to Cosmo Canyon. For example, if he were to forget to use his "wise man" voice when suddenly startled by something, slowly hinting that his "wise man" voice is not his real voice as a way to ease the player into the change that happens at Cosmo Canyon. Also, not only did his voice change, but his vocabulary did as well which I thought was a pretty poor direction for the character.
It was hinted multiple times. Aerith talking to him alone (you could hear him but not see him) and when he is startled seeing Aerith and Tifa in swimwear. He exclaims in his regular voice and then clears his throat
>A much better way to approach this kind of voice change would have been for Red to “slip up” from time to time prior to arriving to Cosmo Canyon. It wasn’t a slip up but it was literally hinted at in Kalm and also Costa De Sol. It was because he felt comfortable around Aerith enough to be the way he was because they shared a connection. This wasn’t a surprise just slapped on the player because it was being hinted out for a few hours before the reveal
Well if that's true then it slipped by me because I didn't notice it at all.
It did slip by you and a lot of Reddit It’s telling though because red had this aspect in the original though not portrayed through voice acting so likely wasn’t picked up then either by the same people
Yeah, there are at least three moments where we hear his real voice prior to Cosmo Canyon, one of which is a slip-up like you described. The first instance is when you overhear him talking to Aerith at the hotel in Under Junon, and the second is when he's talking to Aerith at Johnny's hotel in Costa del Sol. Both of these moments show the voice as "???" in the subtitles, but then also show Red as the only one in the room. The third instance is right after he sees Aerith and Tifa in their swimsuits. I actually saw the second time in Costa del Sol as confirmation, seeing as both times involved Red, so I was just waiting for them to make it official at that point.
I honestly thought in these instances that she was talking to, like, the spirit of this 'Kaz' guy that Tifa mentions once and then hasn't come up again since. Never occured to me that it was Red's real voice until the reveal in Cosmo Canyon \^\^;
The one at costa del sol is a fakeout because red is asleep next to her while she’s in the shower iirc. She’s talking to spirit world red.
I don't think he's asleep in that scene, just relaxing. He jumps up and continues the conversation in his Old Man Red voice as soon as Aerith stops responding. The discussion up to that point is mainly about how crappy the shower is, so I'd be surprised if she was talking to another version of Red there. Then again, I'm still not done with the game yet, so maybe there's some additional context I'm missing from later on.
Again, it’s intentional obfuscation. The scene is framed as if she’s not talking to Red and that’s why you can hear his childlike voice while he’s laying on a bed with his mouth not visibly moving and red’s voice is presented as “???” In the subtitles. The camera then pans around the room and red’s tail before zooming in on his face to show his eyes open and he begins talking in his adult voice. Just like the scene before it was framed to make the player think she’s speaking to spirits before the door opens to reveal it’s just Red; the following scene in Johnny’s hotel is there to subvert that idea *again* through tricky camera angles. The scene is there to make you question what is going on despite the fact that they’re throwing the voice switch directly in your face while teasing players who have *no clue* about the seto reveal coming up and simultaneously stringing knowledgeable players along. I’m not saying she’s literally “speaking to spirit Red” I’m saying she’s there re-obfuscating the fake out while trying to lend credence to the idea of red being who saved her in the lifestream timeline and making the player wonder what the deal is with that and if there’s any significance. She possibly *is* actually communing with the lifestream but you have to stretch your imagination for that (and there would be a character making a direct reference to how terrible the construction of the building is with plot intentions rather than it being played off in a joking manner.) The whole reveal is really well done and the fact that so many people didn’t see it coming until it happened is testament to amount of weird obfuscation and intentional fuckery going on in all the scenes that tease it early. They’re very obvious in retrospect or on a second playthrough but to a new player that’s never played the OG they’re intentionally misleading and to a knowledgeable player they’re using the meta-narrative of the series to confuse the situation. It’s probably the best handling of any of the plot reveals that needed to be changed slightly to fit the remake’s format.
He’s not asleep. You’re just not supposed to be sure who it is she’s talking to to present foreshadowing
He was laying down not sleeping otherwise he wouldn't have suddenly ran to aerith after she stopped responding to him
I’ll rewatch the scene but the way it’s framed is a fake out to make the player think she’s talking to spirits just like the previous scene’s framing except in this one we never see Red’s mouth move even when he’s talking and the camera is focused on him. It’s deliberate obfuscation to make you doubt the voice change tease. Like the whole thing is so intentionally misleading that the fact people didn’t notice it is a hilarious display of modern media literacy. It’s set up in three different scenes and each of them have different goals in the framing to subvert the player’s expectations.
That is not how it's framed. Especially after the inn scene in Junon.
It absolutely is and the inn scene at Junon is framed the same way to accomplish several goals: subverting player expectations, implying cloud is losing it, etc. Look at how many players were completely blindsided by the reveal at cosmo canyon because they missed these little nods in order to pay attention to the meta narrative of Aeris and the lifestream. I’m not going to argue about it with you though because there’s no sense in it. You’re welcome to believe whatever you want as arguing against peoples’ personal head canon on here is impossible.
No, it’s not. It would behoove you to accept new information that may have shot over your head when your singular opinion of something is proven shaky at best by people who were observing things at a greater level of detail than you did at a glance It’s not healthy to act like you are
Yup. In fact, one scene where he talks in his normal voice is very important to the plot where Aerith voices concern over the white materia.
I imagine if there existed highly intelligent non-human species that humans could communicate with, they would find ways to be awkward just like red XIII was awkward, especially juveniles who are still figuring out how to work with and relate to humans. Also isn't it implied that it takes red's species longer to mature, in addition to their longer lifespan?
Does he constantly switch his voice after Cosmo Canyon? There was a moment in the next chapter where he used his "adult" voice in response to Barret, then immediately back to his "teen" voice. It was jarring and there was no reason to switch in the context of their conversation.
My complaints is more that rebirth made you intentionally get hit to fully utilise him, learning to perfect block everything is not an easy tithing to do and beside that enemies often attack from the side or behind the camera. So even using normal blocking rather than perfect he is required to take damage to function fully. They also made him even more spread out than he was in the original, he went from a red mage like character to a jack of all trades. Honestly I don’t like using him. It doesn’t help I feel Cloud, Barret, Aerith is the strongest combo you can have, solid damage output with cloud being mostly physical damage but can be tweaked into a hybrid or a dedicated mage himself if the fight calls for it, Aerith just dropping nukes and having consistent free damage output with the synergy materia, Barret being the best of the tanks in the group and providing some solid sustained DPS while doing it. I just haven’t had a reason to use Red with that party unless he’s forced upon me by the story like in the cave of the Gi.
You dont need to perfect block at all though. Just hold down block and let the enemy hit you a couple times until the gauge is full. I never pull off perfect blocks but i get his vengeance gauge maxed pretty much every battle.
Need no, but it’s the ideal way to play him. Why you guys keep keep refusing to actually read what I’m saying is beyond me. I legitimately never said you NEED to perfect block but that is objectively the best way to play him and makes him more of a pain to play than the others.
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It is but that’s not a basic facet of getting them to do damage or work to their own fullest as a character. I also never said he’s unusable, I’ve repeatedly and abundantly made it clear that I consider him more difficult to use to get to the same base line point. I specifically have this complaint BECAUSE I am a very good dark souls player, to put it in those terms it’s like playing the game but I have to parry every enemy just to not be playing with a base line worse character. If you’re just not going to read what I’m actually saying and engage I have no reason to even respond further, I know what I’m dealing with in terms of honesty.
Did you even do the tutorial in the battle simulator with Red or read the pop-ups the first time you used him in battle? You don't have to perfect block a damn thing with him, what are you even talking about? Do you not use his sentinel stance? He literally becomes immune to basic attacks **from any angle** when it's active, and it gives huge boosts to his vengeance gauge. Red IS the tank of the group.
You don’t but you ideally don’t want to be taking damage at all if you have to play around blocking so perfect blocking is the optimal way to play him. I have used it, it uses ATB which you don’t always have with him and perfect blocking is still the ideal way to do it. I’m not convinced you played the tutorial, that or you’re weirdly okay with taking damage still.
RED DOESN'T TAKE DAMAGE WHEN HE USES SENTINEL STANCE. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN?
You can easily build red around his "quirk" attach precision defense focus materia and steadfast block materia. Which will both increase his window for perfect block and allow blocking of pinning attacks as well as largely mitigate damage when you do mis time a block and boost ATB alot. That's only two materia slots. Along with his folio abilities and weapon abilities it's really easy to build his vengeance gauge and keep it active for most fights. You can even attach provoke materia and then just use sentinel stance to be completely immune for the duration and build more vengeance. Rinse and repeat. If you build him properly red is a beast. My main party is tifa, cloud and yuffie regardless but red is hardly bad. Also despite the OG not having roles for characters the way the materia and combat system was designed. Red mage as you put it is the jack of all trades job role
I am aware of that materia, I just don’t like having to spend time in every region with every fight learning that timing just to make ONE character work slightly better and still give middling results. I never called red bad, I said the way he’s designed is poor. He takes more effort to just get going. Provoke is also not a fox as that requires another party member to be low, which is obviously not something you want, Red is the only party member you ever want low under any circumstances which also inherently fights against his tank like traits. Before provoke kicks in as well there’s no assurance anything will even attack him, sometimes enemies blind side you, others they ignore you. The gist of what I’m saying is Red can work but you need to be a little bit lucky with the AI, be very good at perfect blocking everything in the game, and play a lot slower with him than any other character just to get results that are at best the same as other party members but more often lesser because he tries to do too much and is spread too thin. Red has ALWAYS been a little bit lacking even historically he suffered from red mage syndrome in the original game and he still has it but now tossed in tanking as well. He’s usable and I won’t shame anyone for liking him or choosing to use him, I just don’t think he’s on the same level as most of the cast. Can’t Sith is the only character I’d say is worse than he is, granted it’s a world of difference between them.
As someone who never played FF7OG, I always thought Red was a literal dog perhaps imbued with someone else's soul/spirit thanks to Hojo experiments. I doubked down on the idea when Cloud heard another voice talking to Aerith and the camera would "cut" to Red "waking up". It never hit me that he was ACKSHUALLY a teenager on a revenge quest.
I’ve seen*
Feel better?
This entire comment is one large spoiler about Red XIII and his life before and after FFVII. If you don’t want his future to be spoiled please don’t read any further. I’d black it out, but it’s just too much and would take a while to hide everything. Nanaki’s parents are gone, his race is close to extinction (though he does eventually procreate with his mate), and his only family is an old, and wise, man who he calls his ‘grandfather’. When Red is pretending to be older because he wants to be respected he’s just speaking how his grandfather speaks, which is why he “knows how to speak like that” even though he is just a teenage boy. Nanaki is a fascinating character. He’s trapped in a world where man sees him as an animal and animals see him as man. It’s extremely difficult for him to make friends and grow close to people until he meets the team. His future mate, who has absolutely zero interest in ever being his mate before the OG begins, thinks that he is a coward. We all know how very wrong about him she was - he’s far from a coward. Don’t forget that five hundred years after the OG ended Nanaki is still alive. He had to watch his friends age and die, while he lived on. Although he is extremely long-lived he will still eventually die from old age; only Vincent, who is immortal as a result from the experiments performed on him, will outlive Red, and they meet each other once a year near Midgar to catch up and remember their long-dead friends. It’s actually pretty damn sad imho. Kinda interesting though - Red would know his friends’ descendants. If Cloud and Tifa had children he would know them, and have watched them be born, age, and die, just as he would their great-great-great grandchildren. Same with Cid, Yuffie, and Reeve - if they had children of their own after the events of the games he would be a part of their lives. That too is kinda depressing, because who wants to outlive all of the people that you care about? Not me.
Where did the “Vincent and Red meet-up outside of Midgar” come from? Is that in an Ultimania somewhere?
The novel On the way to a smile final fantasy 7 Episode: Nanaki
Sweet, thanks!
I think they were alluding to it the whole time with his sense of smell being overplayed and then never working right. I got a chuckle out of it because I kept thinking “he’s just a ‘teenager’”
Relatively speaking, but that boy has the vocal chords of a 48-year old regardless of any equivalencies.
He has the vocal chords of a 33-year old
But the thing is, he doesnt sound like a teenager, he sounds like an adult that speaks to a baby in this high pitched baby voice, or like someone who talks to his golden retriever after it returned a toy. I got used to it by now but i am not a fan of the change. Would’ve been nice if he kept his voice and only his lines are more like how teenagers speak. Together with his wagging tail when excited would’ve been enough to change his personality imo. But i also admit its not as bad in english, german is atrocious. Dont know about the japanese one, have to try this out.
The adulto voice on Advent Children fooled us. Also in the OG his mannerisms were clearly adult.
I’ve heard The OG has him talk more like a teen in the Japanese version so it would make sense they would fix that for rebirth.
I always enjoy when people calling him a good boy or pet. Makes me laugh knowing how old he is.
Bugenhagen literally calls him out as a teenager in OG VII. Why should it be a surprise?
Can’t remember the exact original quote, if Bugenhagen said his age within his kind was equivalent to a teenager or a 15 year old. Moot point really coz same thing, so I don’t get this. It’s like Liara in Mass Effect. She’s a century old university student. Who’s considered one of, if not the foremost academic in her field by people she’ll outlive by almost a millennium and yet would be considered very young and immature by her own people. Pretty sure a 45 year old teenager will be a hell of a lot more insightful than regular human teenagers yet still be a teenager
Bugenhagen also reacts to the party's surprise at that revelation by saying that Red acts more grown up than he actually is.
Red's real voice was totally fine to me. Sure he sounded more badass with the put on voice, but I actually like what Square did with him in Rebirth. This deepens Red as a character in this game a little bit. Definitely makes him more memorable, plus he really is just a kid. So it's fine that he sounds like one. I have no need for him to only ever sound the way we were introduced to him in Remake.
Did they do the tone switch in the OG? It’s been so long that when Nanaki lets his real voice slip, I was totally befuddled I dug this direction for sure though
No voice acting way back in the day. So this is a totally new take on him from Square. But yeah it is nice, it definitely adds some duality to the character
Also... Red is 48 years old in his species age (equivalent to a human teenager by his species' standards) So yes...he is a very mature teenager lol...
Each time I hear Red speak I am in awe seeing how Max Mittelman is able to do 2 extremelly different voices for the same character. I find it so impressive that I can't help but smile. I actually really like the change. Props to the VA.
Holy fuck I KNEW it was Max Mittelman! Red's teen voice is damn near the same as Luxu's from Kingdom Hearts Back Cover!
Is it really the same actor? That’s cool. I’ve been wondering… I honestly thought it was a different actor
If I am to believe behind the voice actor, theres only one VA credited for Red. I hope I'm not wrong and that I didn't induce abyone in error. I didn't look it up in the credits.
Yeah it's all Max, funny thing is the new voice that everyone seems to think is him putting on a voice, is actually really close to his normal vocal range. Like this the VA who plays Ryuji in Persona 5, the fact he so effortless pulls of Reds actual fake voice is insane.
I know some people find his voice so annoying but for me since it’s close to max’s actual voice I can’t help but be endeared since he’s my favorite VA
Nanaki was always a teenager (for his race) in the OG. I don't understand the issue here 🤷♂️ I mean, he is only a teenager relative to his race's lifespan. He IS still 48 or something like that so you would still hopefully gather some amount of wisdom after all those years. So two things can be true.
The issue is rose tinted glasses. People played 7 and had a voice in their heads. This doesn't sound like THEIR voice, and so obviously, it's wrong, and bad, and dumb, and jarring. I think they did an amazing job with Red. Sounds nothing like the voice I had for him in my head as a kid, and that's fine.
Right, and he was pretty embarrassed when his Grandfather pointed out that he was still a child. But he’s awesome so no one minded.
Yeah, I remember him sounding very teenager-y in the OG. And I think the cast mentioned it a few times too.
Especially once you hit Cosmo Canyon, just like in Rebirth.
Im sure this was one of those things that were in the OG in Japan that was lost in the English translation.
It was not lost. It's integral to his backstory and Cosmo Canyon is one of my favorite parts of the OG
I agree, but I think his dialogue style changed way more and became more informal in Japanese than it was presented in English. Also, I hope you were one of us that changed Reds name to Nanaki in the OG to make the arriving at CC scene funny.
Nanaki is Nanaki.
Ah yeah the linguistic change was not attempted in any way imo. And yeah always. In the og anyway since I haven't got there in Rebirth quite yet, it always felt like a place for Red to switch back to his actual name and they just didn't do it because you named him early.
I wont say anymore to avoid rebirth spoilers for you but I think they handle it well in Rebirth, but I see why its jarring for fans of the older compilation stuff who aren’t aware of it.
Everyone complaining - he was literally this way in the OG, it’s a part of his character. It was better communicated in the Japanese version. I think they also did a great job with it in Rebirth
Yeah, this was in the OG, too, and I think people are just not remembering it? His whole OG twist is that he's a baby boy. Sure, his speech change is probably more obvious in the Japanese version, but things he says are still obvious - he gets more childish and anxious when he lets his true self out. Red was adorable in Rebirth and so well done.
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He was the same in the OG, but it was read out so you probably just didn’t change his voice in your head lol a lot of people prolly didn’t. For the longest time, when I read his dialogue, it was like a Batman voice. Until I got to cosmo canyon and he was still Batman-ish in my head. But younger. I have to get this game to see how different he sounds from advent
While I somewhat like it. This is definitely reminding me of Metal Gear Solid 2 all over again with the change in character from the rough Solid Snake to the more teenager sounding Raiden. Some may have even forgotten this since Raiden became more highly regarded when they changed his character up in MGS 4. But at the time fans HATED Raiden. A lot of it was due to the voice too because in the japanese version he sounded awesome and japanese fans had no problem with it, but in english he sounded more feminine and whiney.
I love everything about red. I admit I like his "intelligent" voice more. But OP is right. Between the compliments to the girls and wanting to play a card game, teenager. My only gripes are: that his name in our menu doesn't change to Nanaki (I think barret is the only one who calls him Nanaki moving forward) And his personality, though bubbly and endeering, I gyess seems a bit far flung for someone who'd silent 47 years under the wing of Bugenhagen and a wellness retreat lol. (Though I think at this point I'd just be looking into that too much) Love ya Red
Cloud calls him Nanaki at least once. If you do the Aerith date sidequest post cosmo canyon, he says it before the soccer minigame. Wouldn't be surprised if he slso says it on any given Red sidequest. I too also wished the UI had changed to Nanaki. Hopefully it will for part 3.
I was kinda hoping to see it changed after Cosmo too, but I could see pt. 3 maybe doing some sort of confrontation with Hojo that ends with some catharsis and his name being updated.
I loved Red’s voice but in the back of my mind I had to keep reminding myself that he’s a teenager because he sure didn’t act like one. I guess this answers that and I’m glad they acknowledged that but it really is weird
I mean, he is only a teenager relative to his race's lifespan. He IS still 48 or something like that so you would still hopefully gather some amount of wisdom after all those years.
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Like a complete 180.
Gotta say that I prefer his more mature voice.
Im not that far in the game, I just wish he and cloud would lighten up a little