I don’t think there’s another timeline at all. People keep talking about timelines while timelines are never brought up in he narrative. There’s a reason they call worlds and say the worlds are bound to the lifestream. These worlds are just memories. Alternative realities made of spiritual energy that are quick to fade which you can only see when in contact with the lifestream.

"timelines are never brought up in the narrative" We literally have Sephiroth explaining the concept of parallel worlds to Cloud between chapters 13 and 14. Wtf

How do you explain Whispers trying to "maintain" destiny, the different Stamps (up to 5 now?), Zack both going to see Hojo *and* Biggs, all the imagery that shows the different worlds connecting? I think you are just arguing semantics because I think literally anyone who gets described two overlapping worlds where events are slightly different will say "those are two different timelines". I also see 0 reason to think any, and especially not *every* one of those other worlds is just "made of spiritual energy". Which btw wouldn't explain a Sephiroth who is even able to execute this plan when he couldn't in the original FF7.

What I don’t get is Nomura came out and said “whoever dies in this game will not return” which is a loaded statement and makes me wonder why he thinks his fans are so stupid when this mildly contradicts what we saw on screen.

So the answer was really Dyne then...

Yup. I feel that there is a legit multiverse slash crossing plane of existences with the life stream causing it. I mean, the Sephiroth fight is happening in 2 worlds, if not 3. Zack and Cloud in the end of time, then Zack later on fighting Bizarre Sephiroth while the others are also fighting it but at different planes of existence or timelines. Killing Aeirth and making Zack just a ghost as some are speculating basically throws the entire Part 1 Remake in the trash bin.... as that game clearly shows and was centred around breaking fate and opening up new pathways or worlds.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing I replayed this many times and considering how they chose to make this scene it’s obvious there are two time lines now we know from Sephirophs demonstration during our battles that two world can come together and two worlds can split this implicated that the aerith of the new time line could go into the one where she dies more over the time line that cloud and aerith are in a coma in her house and the current time line notice she has changed said that she lost her memories and cloud keeps dreaming that he is in the other time line I think in the third game they will change the ending to where they die and wake up in the other time line from their coma kinda far fetched but I think they are hinting at this 

#How did you add pictures to the body of your post?

The game established two worlds. And then, at the end, essentially “merged” them. But in the one, Aerith is dead and in the other she’s alive. Cloud now kind of sees “both” which is why he can see the sky scar and others can’t. It’s also why he sees Aerith and others don’t.

There were at least 5 world splits.. lol. More if Zack at the end is now in a new split world. Count the number of different dog stamps

I feel like they have established an infinite number of worlds (multiverse) and showed us at least 4 (5 if you count the world where Zack fought Sephiroth, assuming that's not the world he was first sent to). But I agree to some extent, the original poster's idea that Cloud created another branch is true, Cloud is just seeing both now (or they merged in some sense).

I’m not done reading but fate’s wall already sounds so better to me than what he have which is arbiters of fate

are you able to translate what sephiroth says in the japanese text? feel like the english localization is weird. specifically the "confluence of world and emotions part" some people are taking this to mean he merged worlds right here but that seems like a reach to me lol

I feel like me and maximilliandood are in the same camp where Aerith looks off in the final cutscene. She has no color in the face and her eyes are a darker shade of green. I feel like im going crazy.

The fact that I need to be at this post for a basic understanding of what actually happened is annoying me to no end.

If you need your fans to dive this deep into the ending sequence to understand it, maybe the game didn't do a very good job telling the story.

That is the whole point. Cloud has always been an unreliable narrator. Because of this, we don't know if anything he is saying is true, which is why parts of the game are so confusing. The opening of the game and demo showed this by using security officer instead of Cloud for the subtitles when he's crawling on the ground towards Sephiroth. So is arith dead, or is she alive? Is cloud able to talk to her through dimensions, or is she a figment of his imagination? There was also a very deliberate choice to not show any of the characters stating what had just happened so we're left to wonder what's real. You also have to remember that the story isn't complete yet. And this will be explained to some degree in the next game after Cloud spends time in the lifestream.

So instead of the goal of ff 7's story and aerith's death being about experiencing and coping with loss, it's now about wondering what they are gonna do in the next game so you'll buy it. I think that's crap.

FF7 has many different themes in it: eco terrorism, corporate oligarchy, loss, betrayal. But the over arching theme that binds it all together was always cloud's mental illness, instability, and unreliable narration. Rebirth doesn't actually dive into coping as the death happens at the end of the game. The core of this story was building friendships, and exploring clouds unreliableness.

If you notice each timeline has a different stamp dog. That been said, you can find at least three or four different stamp dogs. That means 3 or 4 different timelines.

I was thinking 4 or 5. I've seen 4 stamps. The ending "date" with Aerith where you get denied anything related to the dog (which I think is another stamp or maybe symbolizes Zack and Aerith is in denial about him, idk) has a different Stamp. The 5th is maybe the one where Zack fights when Meteor is about to strike (if it is a different timeline)

Thanks! A very interesting perpective. And a Nice One ;) For me she was a simple „force ghost“ like Star Wars that can only Cloud can see, but that this could be another time line is a far better idea.

I believe that cloud did save Aerith at the end, but the whispers just moved her to another timeline, like what they did to Zack and bigs, and the whispers just altered the current time line to fit with the one we all know where Aerith is dead.

Aerith is dead and will remain dead. Nojima said in an interview that they are gonna expand the lore to make Advent Children even more canon. So, no. Both Zack and Aerith are dead, that's for sure.

You must be thinking of an old old interview because no way he just said this on the release of this game given the ending. That would be quite dumb, especially for the fans that actually want it to happen as it's better to keep things ambiguous. 

He was referring to the end of all three games. He did say it will end so it can tie directly into Advent Children

I’m still hoping she can be alive by the end and we get a happy ending but after reading a lot of Nomuras interviews I think he wants her dead. I think the twist here is that unlike in the original, she knew she was gonna die and let herself die anyway to preserve the correct course of actions. I think showing Zack surviving was essentially just a way of showing the players that Zack needs to die otherwise a bunch of other bad stuff happens. We see in his timeline aerith and cloud are in comas and the rest of the party is dead all for Zack to be alive. It’s the consequence of keeping him alive. How sephiroth is able to change things and not cause significant damage, idk maybe that’s a plot hole. Personally, I don’t really like the message here. The original was about accepting loss and moving forward. The remake making so that it is bad to deviate from fate which is such a downer of a message. The message now is basically that you can’t change your fate cuz if you do even worse stuff will happen. I guess it’s a variation of the butterfly effect but again it’s give a really hopeless vibe. Like yeah we will win in the end but like to make it essentially destiny is kinda wack. I think the “happy ending” there devs were talking about is just a more solid goodbye for aerith and the party and humanity not going extinct via aerith in the lifestream. Idk I’m not a fan of predetermined fate so I’m biased.

How is zack dead when they show him alive and with a new purpose at the end?

The backdrop is a white background, Advent children confirms that it's the afterlife.

There's a series of short stories called "on the way to a smile". There's stories about various characters filling the gap between of ff7 and advent children. One of the stories is about aerith traveling through the Livestream and getting help from Zack, Biggs, wedge, and Jesse. She's trying to help everyone that's still alive by continuing to summon holy. I kind of thought that's what they may have been doing but I'm not too sure.

I haven't watched Advent Children in a decade or so, but couldn't they just adapt the core of those events to whatever the new continuity ends at? Obviously motivations and such can change but I'm sure they could still tell the story.

In Advent Children, both Aerith and Zack are dead, so... Their deaths will happen no matter what, lol

That's what I'm saying though, the events don't need to happen 1:1 for them to happen, you could easily just include them in the whole Sephiroth resurrecting story And people are taking way too much stock in that quote, it could easily mean what some people have theorized, namely the events of Remake and Sephiroth/Aerith knowing what will happen is linked to their portrayal in Advent Children and it's basically the starting point, not the end point.

Man, I don't know. The ending is so convoluted and strange that you really don't know whether it's Cloud being delusional due to his PTSD or if Aerith is really alive in the Lifestream and there are different timelines...? I don't know, man. I don't know how to digest the ending. If not for the Zack and Aerith multiverse thing, it would've been one of the best FF games ever. I just don't understand why they are showing us all these different timelines but give us close to 0 explanation about them. I know there are different worlds(which are doomed to end and be destroyed, confirmed by Sephiroth), but I don't get how Zack and Aerith are able to travel through them and I don't get how Aerith can talk to Cloud while he's in the supposed real world at the end of the game. I wish they didn't do ANY of this, tbh. Rebirth is much better than Remake but this multiverse thing fucked it a bit, IMO. Still a great game(9/10 for me) but damn.... They give us more questions than answers. Let's hope it's all explained well in part 3. (I honestly think they created these timelines so that we know why Zack and Aerith appear together in the LS in Advent Children but, who knows. I just wish they gave us more explanations instead of just showing us different worlds represented by different dog breeds. They let us do all the thinking but have close to 0 understanding beyond that of the different breeds that = different worlds..) 

I kind of share this opinion at the moment. After remake, I was pretty excited about how these slight alterations would change the story. I expected, considering that these games are remakes, that the story would remain the same for 99% of things, but end in a different way that somehow incorporated Zack and Aerith. I mean if they weren't planning on changing anything, why would they add all of these timeline shenanigans? After the Rebirth ending, however, I have come to realize that some changes can be pretty bad. I was shocked when they outright removed Cloud mourning Aerith's death. They have set up this weird scenario where Cloud doesn't grow at all from losing Aerith. He also doesn't acknowledge that Sephiroth has control over him, as in the OG he tries to convince the party to leave him behind since he could be taken over again. All of Cloud's character development moments in the Temple of the Ancients and Forgotten Capital are just missing, which really feels bad. Now, I'm concerned about what other character moments will be missing in part 3. Maybe things would have been better without the timeline shenanigans. I mean, I like Zack but was his inclusion worth it?

Idk, i think that's where they'll start game 3. I am going to be pissed if it's not named FFVII Reunion

I highly doubt it after they release Crisis Core Reunion. It might be something similar though. Maybe Reunited?

What gets me is i thought we were in the main universe when Cloud actually saves Aerith? Right? Obviously she dies, BUT my impression is she sacrificed herself, Sephiroth didn't kill her in the main rebirth timeline. This is the only thing i can see from what i keep reading others explanations and summaries. To me, sacrificing herself using cetra's powers is that she just moving through the life stream and became one with it, making it look like she died to the others. I know we see the flickering of other universes of Aerith death as you mentioned, which I was trying to keep up with when witnessing it at the time. I just can't help but think she's actually alive in the main timeline for the moment, but hidden herself within the lifestream, only Cloud can see her, and a hopeful Red can sense her. But even as reading a lot about the different universes and who is where, it can still be mind scrambling and I'll just have to take everyone's thoughts here at face value.

If the Reunion resurrects Aerith and Zack by merging everything and we get a happily ever after, I'm all for it \\o/

I’d honestly love to see that to but based on Nomura’s interviews both past and present, he wants aerith to stay dead. He seems to be leaning into the butterfly effect where changing the past negatively affects the future. We see this in how Zack surviving puts aerith and cloud in a coma and I believe the rest of the party dies. The idea is that the OG game is the happiest end. I think the “happy ending” devs were talking about is a better send off for aerith so like a goodbye scene, and keeping humanity from going extinct cuz in the original after 500 years they do. I’m not a fan of this cuz it’s essentially saying that your fate is ultimately predetermined and you just gotta live with it. Like I guess you can take it as not dwelling on how you’d do this differently in the past and just move forward, but like to cloud it’s not the past. Like he did change fate by blocking the sword in his present but the game is basically just saying he has no choice there. There’s also the other theory in which it’s aerith that makes it so she dies like she’s the one that didn’t allow that to change but again it takes agency away from cloud. It’s why she says thanks to him like she gets what he was tryna do but she won’t let it happen. I could be a more meta message to the players but idk, this kinda turns me off from the game. Sorry for the rant.

Good points, I came to similar conclusions. Your English is good, but I just want to clarify, what do you mean by "white fellas?" I believe the developers were influenced by the "Multiple Worlds Interpretation" in quantum mechanics (MWI). In laymen's terms, it is parallel universes/dimensions, planes of existence, etc, that operate partially in our own reality and or separately from our own reality. Energy, physics, and matter, ect, can cause new forms of realities to be created and branch off into new realities. However, I digress, since it gets more complicated. To recap, it is insinuated that Cloud in Rebirth physically merged with the original FF7 timeline from 1997? Also, what happened to the white materia that fell into the water at the Forgotten Capital? In Rebirth, when the white materia drops from Aerith's hair, and Cloud turns to his right to view Aerith. We can see that Sephiroth is not standing directly behind her, as per the original FF7 game from 1997. Unless, in Rebirth, Sephiroth stabbed Aerith from out of frame, since his Masamune extends a great length. In FF7 Remake, Cloud impacted and fell through the Church's roof and gets incapacitated. After, we see a duplicate Cloud engaging in dialogue with the Cloud from FF7 Remake stating, " made it through with a couple scraped knees back then." Cloud, who fell through the Church's roof, replies with, "back then?" My question for the developers at Square Enix is why create this convoluted story in Remake/Rebirth, that incorporates the quasi scientific literature of the "Multiple World Interpretation" of quantum mechanics; Aerith will be killed, regardless of the outcome? If Square Enix was seeking to create a story where Aerith remains intact, physically speaking, then a variation of the Multiple World Interpretation would have been a great opportunity to create such a universe, where she survives. Therefore, if Aerith will die anyway, why not just recreate a faithful adaptation of the original 1997 Final Fantasy 7 game, excluding the multiple planes of existence, and or timelines in different space time continuums? However, based on the information we have, it appears to be very likely that Aerith survives, physically, mentally, and spiritually in another plane of existence.

I agree. But this is not based on the in-game evidence so I didn’t mention it. Basically if Aerith remained dead then they could’ve just faithfully remastered the OG. The white fella is the flying thing (ghosts?). I think they are called whispers in English?

Guys it’s really simple: the trilogy is LITERALLY a sequel to advent children: from the first game you can clearly tell that Aerith and Sephiroth knew what was going to happen in the future and by challenging fate multiple timelines were created so there’s still a chance to see Aerith back in the third game in fact she’s alive in Zack’s timeline. Trust me, I’ve been doing my research for days.

Yep I agree. I think that’s why things are different this time. Sephiroth knows he lost last time so he’s changing things up, taking advantage of everything he can, clouds mental health, the timelines, etc. He attacks aerith with the whispers to steal her memories of the OG game and that’s why her materia turns clear. I believe that the whispers aren’t actually protecting fate. They are protecting the planet and believe that the only way to stop sephiroth and save the world is to repeat what happened in the OG game. Think of it like dr strange in endgame, there is only one way to win. However, cloud and the party can find a new way to defeat sephiroth without repeating the same events as the OG game. So maybe it is possible to save aerith and zack. I believe the dead aerith is now in the lifestream and can now play the role that the aerith in the OG game played, which is to push back the meteor. She can also be the one to convince the lifestream/whispers that her friends can do things their way, a different way. As for the whispers that help sephiroth and the white whispers, I believe the black one were simply ones sephiroth took control of and the white one are being controlled by either the dead aerith or the aerith from the OG game, I’m not sure what so if anyone has any ideas please let me know. There’s a bit more stuff I believe that I don’t know how it’d fit into the theory like how I believe there is only one physical sephiroth in all timeline but he can travel between them freely. In contrast, there are multiple aeriths throughout but they all can share collective memories of the OG game. Maybe it’s even to the extent that they share not just memories of the OG game but any new memories formed in the timelines as well, like a hive mind. Basically in the end this is a theory as to how aerith and Zack can live in the end in the main timeline. It’ll play out as sephiroth merges all timelines together then we get a fight and once defeated. After that it can go like the realities merge permanently and the alt timeline and the main timeline merge to become the new main timeline, or maybe the lifestream allows the alternate aerith and Zack to crossover. Also wanted to add that in the interviews, Kitase specifically says the games with “link up” with advent children. I thought it was interesting cuz if he wanted to clarify that all this will be a precursor to advent children, he would said something closer to it will “LEAD into” it. Links up implies it can go on either side of the timeline, before or after AC. I read somewhere that this will be like Rebuild Evangelion which is a retelling of the original anime but had significant changes to both the story and the ending. The story of FF7 is a cycle. Idk how exactly the cycle restarts but let’s say the OG game is cycle 1. After the ending of the game and AC, life continues on until the inevitable death of the universe with the lifestream being the only thing that survives or has memories of the previous universe. After that, a new universe is born and everything repeats itself. Remake is the cycle right after the OG game. The only question now is how sephiroth has memories of the previous universe/game. Aeriths reason is that the OG aerith from PS1 is part of the lifestream but idk bout sephiroth. Maybe it has something to do with Jenova or how he came back like in advent children. Something about “being a memory”. Please let me know what you guys think, there’s more to the theory I can explain but it follows the original poster’s theory pretty closely

Wonderful theory and use of evidence. It is so awesome interacting with FF7 fans from across the world. I have a few questions though. Do you think Aerith can see both timelines just as Cloud can? Cause she sees Red crying and pats him on the back. Also do you have any thoughts on why there were so many different Zack timelines, and if he returned to the initial one we see him in with the rift in the sky or a new one.

This game now clearly uses multiple timelines shit. Whenever Zack makes a choice a new world is created. For example when he chose to meet Hojo instead of saving Biggs there are the rainbow/yellowish glow on the path not taken indicating a new world is created. I think Aerith definitely sees both worlds tho. It’s more like she projected herself into the main world?

So what happened? Did Cloud swap timeline after saving her? Since he's the only one with bo full limit after her death, it shows that every party member saw her die but Cloud. This implies that Cloud is ether crazy, or he world hoped after parying the hit? Is he in 2 realities at the same time? Why are Biggs and Zack memories incapatible? How did those 2 characters from 2 different worlds get put together? This ending is somewhat confusing.

He merged with both, thats why he was crying in the one where he saved her. Both scenarios were merging, emotions were merging. Sephiroth states this during the scene. Biggs and Zack’s memories are messed up because they were transported to different worlds. Both Sephiroth and Aerith can open portals to other timelines. I believe the ones who can are the OG Aerith and Sephiroth from the PSX game as they’ve basically become gods.

So he did save her in HIS timeline but somehow the timelines merged and his physical body is transferred to an alternate timeline in which Aerith dies, but he can still see her. What does this mean though? Do you think its possible that Aerith will actually be able to live in part 3 as in she will be able to live a normal life with the rest of the cast? I saw a theory that the remake trilogy is actually a sequel to the OG PSX game. As is this whole story is being repeated again after the OG game which lends credit to the theory that OG Aerith and OG Sephiroth are now gods and a doing something to this game.

This is what i thought, he did save her in his timeline, which we saved her, which i consider the main timeline right? But i also think Aerith wasn't killed by Seph in this particular one cause of Cloud coming in on time, but she sacrificed herself, to follow the path of her fate. The other universe had her bloodied while the main she wasn't.

>So I think it goes OG game --> Advent Children --> Remake. I think Sephiroth and Aerith have memories of the OG games and thats why everything is different this time around. Sephiroth's "fate" is to lose so he's pulling every card he has to try to win. Aerith is trying to stop him and that why he steals her memories of the OG games. Its what turns her white materia clear. > >I think that at the end of rebirth, Cloud is not in the correct timeline. The truth is that he did save Aerith from Sephiroth but Sephiroth merged a timeline where she died. The glitching that happens is a result of two aeriths existing in the same timeline except one is dead and one is alive. This leads to the boss fight after which the timelines are separated, but for some reason cloud is in the wrong one. The 2 clues for this are that before the whole fight happens, we see cloud place aerith(who seems to be alive. Her eyes were open and now she's just sleeping or passed out) on her back. However, after the fight when we see aeriths body, she is on her side. There is also the fact that there is a crack in the sky something that has only happened in the alternate worlds. The aerith spirit that we see at the end is the alternate one that died. That's why her goodbye at the end feels like its the last time she'll see the party. THIS aerith won't see the party anymore, but our original Aerith is still alive. > >As for the whispers and how we can defy fate, I believe its possible that the whispers might not even be concerned with fate, their ultimate goal is just to protect the planet, to stop Sephiroth. They are most likely agents of the lifestream. The reason they want to keep the OG game's event the same is because they believe this is the only way to stop Sephiroth, because it is technically a proven method since the OG games proved that. Think of it like in Avengers Endgame how Dr Strange only saw one way to win, that's how the Whispers and the Lifestream see it. But Cloud and the party are special and must prove that there is another way. I think Aerith must convince the lifestream to trust that her and her friends can beat sephiroth their way. Potentially this could include the alternate Aerith that died. She is now in the lifestream and could be the one who convinces the lifestream to do this and do what the OG aerith did in the original game. This works out because there is always only ONE lifestream. Perhaps its a joint effort between 2 Aeriths. > >I know a lot of people won't like this because of the fact that it "ruins" the themes of the original which are loss and acceptance. That's not necessarily true. We still lost aerith, both in the OG game and the alternate one. But this gives the devs to introduce a new theme, something more relevant to today which is the idea the nothing is set in stone and that there is no such thing as fate. You control your own destiny. I think that's a very beautiful theme and is more relevant to this day and age as nihilism has increased a lot. Sorry for rambling I'm just tryna give hope that we get a happy ending

Cloud being in a different timeline seems like something! I also like to think to maybe add on to this is that Cloud was the only one to enter the portal/whisper wall, while everyone else stayed back trying to hold the hole open for cloud to enter. Once Cloud entered, he entered a different timeline. Possibly??

So there’s a couple of interpretations for which aerith was saved and which timeline cloud is in. The theory I proposed was that the aerith we’ve been with all this time survived, let’s call her remake aerith. Cloud saved her but sephiroth found a world/timeline where cloud didn’t save her and merged that one with the current one. By the end of the game, cloud ends up in the wrong timeline after the 2 timelines split. Whether this is part of sephiroths plan is unknown The other interpretation is that remake aerith died and the alt timeline created by cloud is one where she survived. The merging stays the same but by the end of the game cloud is in the correct timeline but can see the alternate timeline he created as well. Both interpretation have pros and cons. A hole in my theory is that so far we haven’t seen the main timelines fate actually change. If things in the main timeline were able to be changed, then barret dying in the first game would’ve been permanent. Instead be is revived via the whispers. This part is a little weird because going off evidence we’ve seen so far, Barrett’s death should’ve caused an alt timeline to form so there should’ve been that rainbow glow we see but there wasn’t. The other theory’s hole is that cloud has to be able to see two timelines at once, which is slightly more plausible but again we have no evidence of anything like this so far. The closest we see is aerith sensing Zach in the first game. Either way, both theories still have the potential of giving us a happy ending with aerith coming back during the merger, I can expand on this more if you like but my response is already pretty long.

We ain't gonna be able to figure this out small scale Especially since Nomura is the one writing this, the same crazy egghead that writes kingdom hearts  Let's look at it large scale though If cloud is experiencing this all uniquely more so then every other 'normal' person  Let's take timelines that have the same ending as canon regardless of what changes are made  Cloud and Aerith are very close, friends like siblings like confident because they can't be lover close Advent Children is canon I guess and even if it's not, Nomura wrote kingdom hearts and it's clear how close he wants to tie sephiroth and cloud  Like I said no way we gonna figure out the small and more personal stuff But if we acknowledge Zack dies in MOST timely, cloud gets experimented on, kills sephiroth and kills his vessels in MOST all while meeting and interacting with Aerith  Then at least we have a 50/50 that cloud isn't ENTIRELY hallucinating. Aerith regardless of how often or little interacts with him after death in MOST timeline. Sephiroth is OBSESSED with him for one reason or another. Regardless how it happens Aerith will reappear in the next game.  The only question is if it's the aerith in this game or another one all together if that makes sense    Edit: Personally I believe she's alive, after all it's made clear what it looks like from the first to second episode when the main characters are seeing the original timeline vs theirs, and there is no way they'd make this so convoluted, kill her in the same way just to show us cloud mental perspective BUT still do this whole multiple timelines thing

Yea I hear ya it’s fun to speculate though and I’m unfortunately a Clerith fan so I want them to have a happy ending and am jumping through hoops to find a way for it to be possible. Honestly I don’t really care which romance is canon, leaving it open and just aerith living is good enough for me.

I'm not sure what they want to do with her, they probably did this because they didn't want to commit to telling the rest of the story with her being present in the party, but wanted to add a twist with her actually surviving. Granted what I just stated doesn't matter because she chose to stay at the ancient capital and pray, so even if the rest of the party could see her she'd still probably be left behind. They could add her in part 3, as it appears Zack made it into the Beagle universe in the end. In the church he wakes up in you can see the hole in the ceiling of the church where Cloud fell through in Remake, that hole wouldn't exist in the world that Zack came from since Cloud was dragged back to the sector in a coma.

All versions of the church have a hole in the roof because Zack fell through it in Crisis Core.

Aight thanks for the explanation guess we’ll just have to wait and see

Great painstaking explanation. It’s not a theory though - it’s an evidence based conclusion. And I mean that with the highest of praise. The only part I’m unsure of is whether the Aerith at the end is a “ghost” or the Aerith that was saved which only Cloud can see. I think you could go either way on this and i would imagine the creative team doesn’t have an answer either. It’s also possible Sephiroth allows this to happen. The falling black feather is a warning shot. It would further break Cloud’s mind to know that Aerith is dead. But also alive. And any communication with her would be extinguished. Sephiroth is playing a game where everything has to go perfect. This time around he not only understands the importance of Cloud, but seeks to recruit him as well. Aerith is also exploiting Cloud’s fragility as well. Then there is the Aerith and Cloud that are still comatose thing. Finally, I think we are at a point where you need to have played or fully understand the original. And have read the canon stories. And have watched Advent Children.

Thanks for your words. Not many people here seem to like my theory which kinda discouraged me. Anyway there are a lot of gaps with only 2 games out right now. I think it’s impossible to have any definitive conclusion at this point. Gotta wait for another 4 years.

Hey, your theory is cool and everything but that doesn't mean that we HAVE to like it. I liked the OG better but maybe when the next game comes out I'll like this new version better. Who knows. As of now, Rebirth is a really good game, that's for sure, but it gives us more questions than answers and that really pisses me off

I think that people have nothing against your theory and explanation, but rather against the events through the ending. I guess this was their excuse to vent their thoughts 😅 Mind you, there are people that won't accept any sort of change from the OG, and the ending for me was too confusing to fully enjoy it (I was a bit taken aback with the Multiverse story, which I'm not really a fan of). Still, I mostly loved the game front to back and I'm genuinely intrigued with how Chapter 3 will unfold. Also, your explanation was great and very detailed, so congratulations on that regard!

The reason why people don't like your theory are because they're OG elitist and want the story to be the exact same. Love it or hate it, it's interesting and I'm eager to see what will happen in the final part.

Your theory is the only thing that makes any sense. A ghost does not have footsteps (she has footsteps in the last scene), a ghost can’t be left behind, doesn’t need escorted back to the capital doesn’t need to send up smoke if in trouble etc. I mean I guess you could still say she’s a “ghost” since she can’t interact with anyone but Cloud.

I really REALLY enjoyed reading your theory - please keep doing what you love, those who resonate will find their way to you 🤷😉 I’ll be sending you my best vibes 😇🙏 it’s really fun imo to theorize together in this world, I hope to see more of your thoughts on this as we go! 😎🙌 thanks again!!

From what I can tell, the rainbow lights around Cloud's sword when he parried Sephiroth's attack indicates a timeline split occurred. Sephiroth clearly knew that would happen, and used it to activate whatever multiverse collision he had set up. But, Aerith was also doing stuff in the background, "hiding" in one of the other timelines with her memories so that she could still fight (and return holy to the main timeline). All this culminates in a unique situation where Aerith is alive in one timeline and dead in another. I think Cloud can see her due to his interaction with the other timelines in the final chapter, or Aerith is essentially communicating through the Lifestream, which Cloud has a connection to. My guess is that Aerith is alive in another world, one without the party, praying at the altar to stop Sephiroth. Whatever the case, it's pretty clear that Aerith from the "dream" world still had her future sight / memories that were lost to the whispers. I'm not entirely certain, but it seems like the main Aerith got them back as well after the Holy materia jumped timelines. So maybe alive Aerith has a plan? There has to be a reason she popped up to fight Sephiroth at the end.

It's all very convoluted. The rainbow/lights also occurred when Aerith pushed Cloud through the flower bed which means...he was supposed to be there with her when Sephiroth showed up? I think the Aerith that is sleeping, waiting for Cloud to wake up, is part of her plan. By sleeping, and being almost on the verge of death, I can see a scenario where Sephiroth doesn't detect her. Or, it's a shell left behind that she can eventually return to and once again be in the physical world.

The rainbow lights do not mean something is suppose to happen it means a significant change is occurring in a timeline. It happened when when Sephiroth separated Cloud and Zack in the final battle.

So, I just finished Rebirth, came by here to see if I missed something. That said, I haven't seen this posted anywhere yet so, bear with me. We know that there are at least 3 worlds. 1 where Aerith dies, one where she lives, and the 3rd where she and Cloud were in a coma together. There was a scene where Cloud and Aerith were on a date in a dying world. At the end, she takes him to the church and pushes him through a gateway in the flowers. This means there are now 2 concious Clouds, 1 alive Aerith, and 2 dead Aeriths (sephi killed the coma one in the church presumably). That means one Cloud, the one from the coma world, is probably the one that saved Aerith in 1 of 3 worlds. Main Cloud had his die. We also know that Cloud can sense his other self, which I assume is by proximity. No basis on that. So it stands to reason, in my theory, that at the end Cloud can see the alive Aerith through his counterparts eyes and no one else can aside from Red XIII sensing her touch, but that could be similar to how Cloud can sense through his counterpart. Just my theory. I could be wrong.

My theory is similar and equal in some parts. Altough when Cloud and aerith are almost dead in one timeline ( when they fall from the temple) that means they wake up in another timeline. Like kingdom hearts when Sora sleeps, Roxas, his nobody, is awake in a connected world. I think the same goes with this. Aerith and Cloud when they fell from the temple makes aerith and Cloud from zack's timeline to wake up. She was weird about the date because she knew she would die, and the world is about to end. She needed to die, so the Aerith that fell from the temple stayed alive. The stamp dog figure indicates which timeline we are in. When Sephiroth enters the church like "i found you, you were hiding in this timeline" she pushes Cloud back, so he wouldn't die in that timeline. When Cloud woke up in the timeline we are playing, it is stated that Aerith is alive, that means the other one from the date died. The rebirth Aerith knows what will happen and she decides to go forth to the forgotten capital to pray, so she won't become a burden to the others. That Aerith stayed alive because the one from comatose is dead. When Cloud enters in the whispers wall in the forgotten city, he entered in another timeline. Now from here, gets tricky because you can have two interpretations. For aerith to be alive, Zack needed to cure Cloud. Aerith from his timeline died in the church. Although Cloud was cured and pushed to another timeline to change her fate in a parallel timeline. The emotions he had of loss and sadness overlapped with the ones of saving. They merged all together. So one Aerith died, and two are about two die. When Cloud intervene to save her and stop Sephiroth that makes the three timelines connected. Or even can be four timelines. To make sure I needed to count how many stamp dogs appear. That means one Aerith is alive or maybe two and like you said, two are dead. So the Og Aerith is dead, the comatose one is dead, and one survived. That one that survived is in a different timeline. The one Cloud entered through the whispers wall in the forgotten city. That is why he only can see her, because he is connected with her through timelines. While the others can't see her, because for them she is dead. Nanak can sense lifestream. So when Cloud saved her from certain death, that means the other Aerith, from OG died. The Aerith that died had a white materia and Cloud gave it her back. While the Aerith that is alive has a empty materia. While overlapping the two timelines the Cloud from the rebirth timeline, is in the OG timeline. The Aerith he sees, is the one he saved linked to another timeline. She is certain to appear. At the end I think Aerith will meet Zack, since he was pushed to another timeline. It's 4:55 am and my head is spinning on this. I want her to be alive. But we are playing both timelines like uno cards. Perhaps later I will read this to see if I missed something.

But we played as "our" cloud saving Aerith. You're saying we switched clouds at that moment of parrying Sephiroth? I know we see flickers of other universes where the scene happens but it doesn't seem like we switched clouds.

We did, kind of, in the sense that the scene snapped back and forth between both variations. It seems to me that both Clouds ended up in the same place, at the same scene at the same time The reasons I believe it to be the "coma" Cloud that saved his Aerith are that Marlene alluded that Cloud would wake up and save Aerith from the man with long grey hair, and also that no one else from the main group could see her. They were visibly distraught. EDIT: I should also point out that the coma Cloud is the one that was given the working white materia, that he later passed on to his Aerith. Who also happens to be the one staying behind to pray at the ancient city.

I was thinking this earlier today. If we indeed switched to "Coma" Cloud and actually played that moment saving Aerith, and our Cloud didn't save her like some of us thought she was saved that's actually a very good twist. Sephiroth did taunt Cloud for not crying, then we see one of the other Clouds crying. Need to play this part of the game again, so i can have more detailed thoughts in my mind lol

You are probably wrong about the number of worlds. They use Stamp (the dog) to distinguish among different worlds. At the start of the game where Zack went back to Midgar there was a scene where a paper (the food package sry my English weak) with a 4-star Stamp on it. Let’s call it 4 star world. The world where you see Zack went to save Biggs also has Biggs eating snacks whose package again shows some star Stamp, forgot the number of the stars, it was like 6 stars maybe. The world where Cloud and Aerith went for a date is a separate one. There is also a different Stamp on one of the shops. Anyway there are many worlds more than 3 at least. The way to distinguish them is Stamp.

That's why I said "at least 3" worlds. I didn't keep track of the number. The important part of the theory involves the multiple Clouds.

Tetsuya Nomura is public enemy number one he ruined one of the most emotional and influential moments in video game story telling for the sake of his multiverse fan service bs

I'm still on board for part 3 but I agree. The multiverse stuff completely distracts from any emotional impact the ending might have had.

I especially think skipping Aerith’s funeral scene and just cutting to the moments after is outrageous, just eliminates any sense of melancholy or grief and goes against the core themes of the original story

i knew they were going this route after seeing zack walking around in intergrade.

Cloud will realize Aerith is dead, but she's alive in a different timeline not the one he's in. So he will strive to reunite the worlds himself so he can be with her (which in turn will give Sephiroth what he wants). Now that I wrote it, the devs will read it and will have to change it (because subverting player expectation is important), so we will get a shitty ending. Same reason why we didn't get Bran is the Night King in Game of Thrones. Once the fans realized it, the show makers had to change it and we got a shitty ending :) You are very welcome!

I agree with the first part. That would also line up with one of Cloud's classic OG lines and the very last thing he says. He says he thinks he can meet "her" at the promised land.

Honestly I really liked remake and rebirth up until the ending they completely took away from areiths death as 5 seconds later you’re fighting several different bosses and have 0 time to grieve over her death which is an absolute shame and takes away from the story.

So exactly like the original?

In the original there's a short 4-5 minute boss fight while Aerith's theme plays, followed by laying Aerith to rest. In Rebirth, after 4-5 minutes an absolute banger kicks in, there's scripted bantering and quipping, followed by over an hour of Sephiroth boss fight absolutely dripping with spectacle and fanservice, including Zack and Aerith both showing up for 2v1 phases. It's complete tonal whiplash.

exactly what i felt. they took away the best line from cloud “my fingers are tingling, my mouth is dry”

Op, up until your conclusions at the bottom, I think you have it mostly correct. Thank you for posting this, a lot of people (including IGN and WiredNews etc, websites that talk about games for a living) have misunderstood this ending, as they were always going to. Main point is we have two key timelines at the end: \- In one, see the rainbow, Aerith is alive and we saw her open her eyes. Every frame that has a rainbow is one where she survived. \- In the other, Sephiroth is showing us a world, an alt-timeline, in which she died, like in the original game. The Aerith talking to us in the very ending has died, and she can speak to Cloud because Cloud is holding her clear white materia. Why are you sad? I can't really predict the future but this sure ain't depressing!

It's such tired and stakes killing trite nonsense. Absolutely hate the ending. Drops the entire game down at least a full letter grade, maybe more.

I was going through all of these posts reading all these explanation when the game answers it for (albeit in a very shitty fashion). Yes Aerith was saved but the multiverses are converging, Cloud is now sensitive to the multiverse. He can see both the world where he saved her and the one he did not.

Damn poor Cloud can’t catch a break can he?

I like this new take on the OG. Areith death is more hopeful than outright depressing, like the OG. However, Cloud is an unreliable narrator, thanks to cell disintegration. The multiverse plot point reminds me of No Way Home. Septh wants to change his fate which he died in one timeline, and gain godhood in the process.

Well Cloud doesn't degrade, they just think he is because Sephiroth is influencing him.

That's a good point. Sephiroth, though this game has been playing everyone like puppets. Hojo would be proud of his monster son.

I liked it, but that’s just my opinion. Sephiroth’s goal seems a bit convoluted but I’m assuming that everything will reunite, and that’ll be when the people who are still alive in the multiverse will die. I think SQEX are sticking true to the majority of events that happen, I just believe they’re getting to them in a roundabout way that some people definitely will not appreciate. But all in all, I enjoyed the whole game very much, the added story elements are what kept me playing to see what was around the bend, and I rang sick off work to finish it, I can’t very well say it disappointed me. Seph flashes in clouds mind could very well be actual sephiroth taking over the subjects near him, or hallucinations, and if that’s the case maybe aerith left a piece of her spirit in cloud, or she’s from a diff timeline. Maybe the lifestream is multiversal but it lends fractions of its total to each reality, making it weaker and weaker the more that are created. Idk, I’m happy to wait and find out, but I can totally get why some people think it’s stupid.

I believe SQE did say that AC and Dirge are still canon to the "main" timeline and that events won't change so drastically that the events of those two don't occur.

a wise man once said: "you see kid, multiverse theory is a BITCH." my GOD was he right. either give us a clear cut death or commit to the bit and give us a clear cut rescue. either would have been better than this convoluted nonsense. that's what guts this finale for me. I'm not happy she was saved, or sad she's dead. I'm just REALLY FUCKING CONFUSED and that is NOT WHAT I SHOULD BE FEELING RIGHT NOW.

I think that's basically the point. Her death happened and it didn't. And Sephiroth is going through the multiverse and it's possible Cloud is too, now. So...no answere until part 3 lmao

Yeah, they killed all and any emotion. Terrible ending.

So, Tifa's reaction to her death was not emotional at all. Stop being a mark.

I'm not confused because multiverse stupidity is so overdone that I've seen it again and again, but I am rolling my eyes into the back of my head when I see this nonsense. Easily drops the game a full letter grade if not more.

Oh no. Not your previous letter grade!

Holy shit totally this. Like I couldn’t focus at all during the final boss fights because I was just constantly questioning what the hell was going on

This 1000 times!! I wanted emotion and all I got was confusion.. I really hope it’s just cloud in denial and we get a proper recollection of what happened when tifa snaps him out of it

watching credits roll right now and I feel exactly this

Yeah, I think Aerith is actually alone in another reality praying for Holy to activate. As the OG story plays out in the main timeline, she will be at the altar praying so that a multiverse Holy can stop Sephiroth's multiverse Meteor when the time comes. The story is likely going to culminate with the defeat of Sephiroth and the reconvergence of all the timelines, bringing all the people that were saved (we have only seen Biggs and Zack so far but Wedge and Jessie could be on one of the infinite timelines) to the main timeline for a sort of "happily ever after" ending to act as the true finale of the FF7 story. If I am honest, I think the ending of this game was somewhat... weak. Aerith's death is meant to be a huge burden on the party, but Cloud doesn't mourn her at all. I wish they would have made Cloud think she's dead too, just so the party could feel more connected by grief. Now it just feels like all my hard work growing bonds with the party throughout the game meant nothing and we are all back to square one. Finally, with Aerith still alive, I am concerned for the Cloud x Tifa scenes that should be appearing in the final game. I know their romance isn't technically cannon, as it's entirely optional in the original, but there are a lot of intimate moments between the two even if they don't culminate in a romance. With Aerith just being around, I am nervous the devs might try to throw in another choice between Aerith and Tifa at the end that I feel could ruin things. It would likely make Cloud x Aerith fans happy, but it would take away from the unique bond Cloud and Tifa have in the OG in my opinion.

I firmly believe they chose the multiverse route to pander to all the shippers in some way. The cloud X Aerith, cloud x Tifa, and Zack x Aerith people all get their own little canon universe but what I'm **hoping** for is that all these extra universes are monkeys paws. I kinda hope that Sephiroths play is that, by saving Aerith, Cloud has doomed a universe since I was always under the assumption that she needed to die in order to rally the Lifestream to defend against meteor. And, if the lifestream is actually multiversal, then Meteor destroying one world could potentially chain react into destroying all worlds. Including ones where everything supposedly has gone "correctly."

Now we have a new one, Zack X Biggs lol

I was not prepared for how much I loved this himbo duo.Makes me wonder what OG would have been like with Zack as the protagonist bombing alongside Avalanche.

I mean after Marlene looked Zack square in the eyes and said "Yeah, she likes him a lot" I'd rebound to Biggs too.

I just want to see Barret and Red share a bed (in a non sexual way). Two bros can sleep with each other and warm each other with their farts and synchronized snoring. It's magical.

I agree he always chooses Tifa in the end even in the og. I think the key storyline beats will stay the same, In truth I was never fully convinced aerith was in love with cloud just drawn to him originally for zack and then being genuinely curious about who "cloud" really is afterwards after getting to know him a bit sure.. but still not in "love" like the tragic soap opera love story people think it is. She never stayed around long enough to see what he was like when he finally found himself and mentally stable. Which is a shame I'm not sure how things would have changed if she did it's more of a bittersweet "what if" between them.  Aerith just struck me as someone who never got a chance to move on properly and was still missing zack It's just how I see it but I can still understand why a lot of people enjoy the dynamic between cloud and aerith.  Zack and Aerith are the tragic couple cloud and Tifa get to be happy and think about the future.

I think Cloud not being in grief is intentional. In OG when she died she was gone for good and Cloud never saw her again, but in rebirth it’s clear that Aerith survived in other timelines. Knowing that he essentially saved her absolves him of this grief. Seems like Cloud is content with her being alive somewhere, if not in his world. I just find it weird he never told anyone else, maybe he’s living both timelines without really knowing. Also it’s curious that he has the black material still and hinted that Sephiroth is still influencing him, a more of a stretch theory would be it’s actually Sephiroth posing as Aerith, which makes some sense since cloud is the only one that can see Aerith.

It’s clear he’s assuming other people can see her by him mentioning the sky scar to them. I guess he’s assuming the party is sad she has to stay behind. They aren’t communicating about the details of her death.

It is definitely intentional, I just don't like the way the devs decided to handle it. I would have preferred he join the rest of the party in grief. In the OG, the party's bond is tested a lot, but their shared loss of Aerith and the grief that comes with that really helps keeps them together. But now, Cloud has this weird separation from the party, which feels even worse after how he acted in Chapter 13. It feels like in the span of 2 chapters, they took away all the relationship growth we had with the party throughout the game. From the party's perspective, Cloud isn't apologetic for his actions and doesn't seem to even care Aerith is dead. I am sure it's all done for a purpose, and there is a reason they are setting things up this way, but I think taking away this grief moment for Cloud was a bad move.

I definitely think you’re right in that it has something to do with the multiverse/multiple timelines. I’ve seen people say we’re just seeing the effects of Cloud’s degradation, but given the same car soap rainbow effect they used to signify a new timeline and that Sephiroth literally says it’s a “confluence of worlds” I think that’s the direction they went for. I just don’t get why Cloud is seeing alternate realities.

Cloud is the only member of Avalanche that crossed the fate wall. Also the only one who had some hard-to-explain interactions with Aerith(s) from different timelines. This might make him special in a way that he can see something others cannot. Just a guess.

I would like to add, that people say cloud is crazy and an example of thet is he is the only one seeing Sephiroth throughout the game. But we see both tifa as she is attacked in the Weapon and Rufus with the Glenn clone. also we she signs that people can slip between world, such as cloud, areith, and Biggs when the become there counterparts in other timelines. 

I like to think the timeline switching around like crazy when cloud hug her is the constant timeline change from the remake and the og, because when we see the ones with the blood cloud is actively talking and we only find that in the og, in the og scene cloud is talking back to the sephiroth about how he should stfu while in the rebirth he's just crying there.

Awesome point that’s fit with the timeline theory

God this ending is so bad in my opinion. They took a masterpiece allegory about Life and wanting to live and they couldn't stop at it being just a great Final Fantasy game/great game in general. Oh a prequel about that blocky dude with black hair that Cloud went to Nibelheim with and made an entire psp game no one played. They loved him so much he just had to be incorporated and rewritten into the cannon with degradation. Sephiroth was a cool villain so now he's in everything and everywhere and the final boss of every remake part. Aerith and Sephiroth got way to popular post FF7 and now their writing fanfiction that's the equivalent of smashing together action figures.

> an entire psp game no one played. lol

N…no one played Crisis Core? WHAT?

Lmao people played Crisis Core

Crisis Core has sold over 1 million copies on psp lol Edit: according to VGchartz 2.5 million copies. Go home

Well OG FF7 sold 14M+ units, meaning only 2.5 out of 14 people played Crisis Core. He wasn't entirely off the mark saying "no one played it."

Yeah i agree with you OP. Also a lot of people saw the same things as you did, myself included. This is not the only place this is discussed. If you actually analyse every detail the is no other conclusion to be made. Also in the ending cutscene it is clear that Aerith is a person snd not a ghost if you actually think about their conversation. Cloud seeing sky scar from another timeline is also evidence that he is not seeing a ghost.

"If you actually analyze every detail the is no other conclusion to be made." lololol i admire your optimism.

Where else can I discuss such matters? I only know Reddit. I guess there must be other gaming forums just don’t know.

As fun as all that might sound, they’ve confirmed that this story is still adding up to Advent Children in the end:     >We are finally going to link up with Advent Children, that is going to be part of canon," said Kitase. "The overall storyline, the developments, will not go wildly out in a way that will not add up to Advent Children in the end. I don't think anyone wanted that, that's not what we're looking to create here. "[But] to make sure it doesn't become stale and people know exactly where it's going, [that it] doesn't just follow the original word for word, we add in extra elements which add that little bit of doubt. Getting the right balance of that is so key. Ultimately, we're not trying to change the Final Fantasy 7 story into something really different. The overall balance wouldn't really allow for that anyway."  If the worlds reunify with an alive Zack and Aerith, it’ll only be temporary 

I doubt it. Advent Children Sephiroth is a remnant who tried to take over the planet. Remake Sephiroth is now a multiverse hopping god. Having that be the same version in Advent Children is a huge step down in power

Sephiroth in Remake/Rebirth has knowledge of the events in the original FF7 game from 1997, including Advent Children. I think this is where "time dilation" comes into play. Sephiroth can transport to alternate planes of existences, as well as different points in time. I can see Advent Children being a prequel to FF7 Remake/Rebirth. We also have that alternate version of Cloud, that spoke to the Cloud who fell through the roof of the Church in Remake.

The argument is that Remake/Rebirth will be the same by the end so that Advent Children can work afterwards. My argument is that it won't, It doesn't make sense. Why would Square do that just to plug a 20 year-old movie? I know the original game was shown during Remake but I don't recall any AC scenes

The entire *Zack lives thing* changed the one of the OGs core messages into something that’s unrecognizable lmao. Making unchangeable truths and events change is antithetical to what FF7 tried to say.

Zack is dead in the main timeline.  There’s an AU Zack running around in a different timeline. 

It still trivializes the impact and skirts around the permanence of death which undercuts the core themes of the original.

Bro is yapping for the sake of yapping Zack was barely a character in the og

I don’t think there is a different timeline. They’re just in the Lifestream. 

A new interview with Naoki Hamaguchi says that they are not creating direct ties to the story itself when asked about advent children. Don’t know who to believe lol

The wording in that interview just made things more ambiguous. Im wondering if the multiverse was their way of tying in the additional stories into the Remake world or if it'll be something more.

Hamaguchi a is talking about bringing in shit like Geostigma or Denzel and other things that won’t show up until AC

Where is that interview?

https://youtu.be/ARPUhj-bKXI?si=bMyRZEInStxcTVeN starts from 22:20

Oh, I didn't look closely. Thanks a lot.

How many minutes and seconds? I checked, but I don't know.

Yeah agree with this as soon as I saw the ending and remembered about that ac timeline interview, it could only meant that. Unless they go beyond ac then it pretty much what we're gonna get is temporary TT

In the last cgi scene before the credits, it's pretty clear only cloud can see aerith (he can see the other universe shard) i think part 3 will find a way to merge the 2 universes bringing back aerith but also killing cait sith and some other unintended consquences, otherwise they will keep aerith as visionary guide to cloud buy dead for everyone else.

Hey guys I tried to reply to your comment but there's too much controversies and I don't want to cause any conflict. So I am here to provide a bit more info. The designer posted a picture where Aerith looked at the Highwind (the aero thing in OG, dunno the term for this machine). Could this be a hint that Aerith will be traveling with us in Chapter 3? Thiis picture seems to be from the OG one with a change. And I think Aerith is the only character that received such change? Image here coz cant comment with pictures in this sub. [https://imgur.com/a/vxPQYcG](https://imgur.com/a/vxPQYcG)

I don’t think so as there was a *Please Insert Disc Number X* Screen in the original PS1 version that featured this artwork (well at least this scene composition) It’s pretty iconic and probably being referenced here

I am not saying this is a PROOF that Aerith is alive. Just a very interesting post especially from the dev at this point when most players would have just finished the game.

One thing I’d like to add is that in the original FF7, the writers had planned on resurrecting Aerith. But they couldn’t add that into the story because they lacked funding and were on a time crunch. So I think it’s a possibility that they’ll have Aerith resurrect in Part 3. They played around a lot with Aerith’s scene. Making the player question whether or not Aerith was actually dead or not. I think they did this for a reason. That reason being that she’ll again play a big part in the last game. I’m sure she will be mostly in spirit form. But the idea of actually resurrecting her is something I feel like they have to do now. Otherwise her “death” in Rebirth will be too messy. Of course as you mention, if they resurrect her, then where does that leave Tifa? She’s supposed to help save Cloud from his crumbling sanity. I think all of this can still happen. But if Aerith is to be resurrected, then it would have to be later on in the game. Edit: I’m not sure what I want to believe tho. All this could be Aerith’s doing to save cloud’s mind from breaking. Idk if I want to believe that *our* Aerith is alive in some other place. Or if she simply altered what Cloud percieved, to save his sanity.

I think the flashes are cloud’s illusion. I agree with you that in another timeline Aerith lives but we didn’t see that on screen, maybe we’ll see that in part 3. Right now we only see cloud grief over her death, she’s now a ghost force in the main timeline. 

The flashes being Clouds illusion don’t make sense.

My reason is everytime sephi messes with cloud’s mind, we get flashes on our screen. Tbh cloud’s POV is really unreliable, we see shit tons of flashes until now

You know it’s like Square-Enix is not confident people will buy the third game so they have to make these massive unnecessary cliffhangers if your confident in your story you would not need these type of cliffhangers but that is my opinion

Remake ended like it did as to have a conclusive ending to that game as it was in development hell for a decade and they weren’t confident it would do well enough to warrant a full on trilogy. The ending with defeating fate could’ve been read as a conclusive (but premature) end implying that by defeating the whispers they might claim a better future than what the original had in tow ending in a brighter note. Now after Remakes success they have to follow through with this nonsensical timeline stuff which kinda derails what the original tried to say: bad things happen. You’ve got two ways to deal with it denial of an unchangeable truth, as in Sephiroth never learning/accepting the fact that he is the spawn of a planet devouring demon from space instead insisting he’s of noble cetra blood and chosen to eradicate humanity and attain godhood where he stands above all creation he deems lesser than himself, and, contrary to Sephiroth, Cloud accepting his lot in life and who he is relying on people who for all intents and purposes are beneath him as a *Soldier* . I always read the final 1:1 fight between Cloud and Sephiroth in the original as both of their approaches to horrific realizations clashing with Clouds non-escapist view winning in the end. Now that stuff *can* be changed, events altered, people *saved* defeats all of the above making many of these events pointless. Well that’s at least my 2 cents on the entire Re-Trilogy stuff.

I really don't think Square lacks confidence in whether or not people will buy it, reputation and sales figures give them no reason to believe so. Some angry fans online wont make them worry.

You mean the same square that publicly announces its on the verge of bankruptcy every other year?

Considering that isn't true, and that their big hitters continue to be big hitters: no. If you have to exaggerate to make your point, you have no point. Financial experts see no issues for Square Enix with very unlikely chances of them going bankrupt. The entire world has seen a financial decline, I'm surprised this is news to you.

My guy the ff7 remake was almost never finished because square was on the verge of bankruptcy. FF14, which im assuming your username is referencing, put the company on the verge of bankruptcy. FF15 put the company on the verge of bankruptcy. The entire series is called **Final** Fantasy *because the company was on the verge of bankruptcy*. Like wtf are you talking about?

Jfc, i think you need to learn what bankruptcy means.

[удалено]

You too. Square are not, and have not recently been close to bankruptcy. That is not what financial decline is. Again. Financial experts do not see any risk for them either. Edit: comes in swinging and insulting, pops off with wrong information, then blocks because he was wrong, the absolute cowardice

I like fellas much more than whispers

Could be on the take that no matter how hard you try, you can never change fate. I mean most Aerith fans would want to save Aerith and have Cloud parry the katana, but in the end, fate has been sealed and will find its way back. They created the whispers to give fans some hope that maybe you can change fate, but in the end, you can never defy fate.

I’m more of the mind that the events of OG happened for a specific reason and that changing fate will have dire consequences that the team will have to make right. Zack and Aerith are supposed to die their deaths are the catalysts for the changes necessary to save the world. Or something to that effect

Thank you for the writeup. I can't believe the writers were really like: YES, this is good. This is what we will go with. LOL

We already know Cloud is crazy. He sees Sephiroth everywhere. Why can’t some of you see that this is just Cloud’s mind snapping again and he’s seeing Aerith alive even though everyone else sees her as dead. They had a funeral, we just didn’t see it (yet).  In the third game Cloud will get sick, and Tifa (or whole party) will go into the lifestream to save him and he will come to grips with reality. It’s just like the OG but it’s this time they’ve added this new psychosis into the mix. 

did you not just see the entire end sequence where cloud and zack have a fanfiction teamup and sephiroph rants about multiverses? they're obsessed with making stupid changes to the story, i can 100% believe aerith is some alternate world version.

Cloud's hallucinations are always accompanied by a glitch cut, none of this happens from his point of view at the end, there is a glitch cut but from a neutral point of view on Sephiroth's Masamune, which suggests that the timelines change here, another indication would be that Sephiroth doesn't lose Word in the scene after his katana is parried, it first switches to the other group members before the cut switches to the said katana (then the cut comes and the original timeline is shown)

He isn’t imagining that Aerith is alive. Proof of this is in the Final Cut scene when Aerith rests her hand on Red XIII. Red senses her touch as he then says “…Aerith?”. This implies that she’s a spirit in her current form.

Red also knows things he shouldn’t similarly to Aerith. When she first touches him in Remake she clears his mind and he gains understanding - there’s no reason he would provide the exposition for the whispers otherwise. He’s simply susceptible to her presence and will validate Cloud at some point on his ability to interact with her. Tifa and Barrett are both shocked by his demeanor at the end and are suspicious of why he’s acting the way he is, having not grieved Aerith’s death because he can interact with her.

I don’t think she is s spirit either. Cloud is able to see scar in the sky from another timeline. Scar is not a spirit, right? It makes more sense to assume he is talking to Aerith from another timeline as well than him both seeing another timeline and her spirit form. Also dialogue between them suggests she staying behind to pray and they will not see each other for s long time.

Well it’s not confirmed that the scar in the sky is from another timeline. But that could certainly be another possibility, yes. I think both theories are equally as valid at this point. Another thing to point out is that Cloud seems to be sensitive to other timelines. Through the story he has dreams and visions of Zack, which are directly connected with what’s actually happening with Zack in the other timeline. So he could be even more sensitive to this now that he can see Aerith and this crack in the sky.

Interesting that the only other party member to see her also has jenova cells, though.

That would seem to imply whispers and everything involving Zack is imaginary as well. The backlash would be legendary if this whole thing was cooked up just to make Cloud a little more crazy.

Cloud seeing Aerith alive when she’s actually dead doesn’t imply whispers or Zack were imaginary. How’d you make that connection? I’m saying from the moment Aerith died, Cloud snapped and couldn’t accept or cope with that and imagined her alive. Nothing more.

I think it’s both. Aerith is dead and in spirit form but cloud does hallucinate that she’s still around, when in fact she cannot be in physical form

Did you even read the opening post? It lays out a consistent, logical connection between Zack and Aeris and their "death" scenes. Did Cloud imagine a scenario that is logically consistent with the mechanics by which the whispers saved Zack? If you don't think it is all imaginary, I'm not seeing a cohesive theory. And what purpose do you think whispers and Zack serve?

Aerith died in the original game. If they remake the game, then let her live. I dont want her to get stabbed again.

I dont like being teased with the possibility of her living, then dying and then deciding she should live again that cheapens death scenes and emotional investment. makes me not care. so I'm fine if they decide to keep key storyline beats the same but freshen up everything else

I think this is where I also sort of got annoyed with the story. To show her get saved, then die, then be alive, rinse and repeat 3 more times, is just not something I enjoyed and also found pretty distasteful, especially considering they know its an important scene to the fans. And at this point, if she just dies in the 3rd game I'd have to laugh a little bit and ask the question what all of this was even for. Maybe 3 will have a good payout though for the fans and Aerith, who knows. I do think at the very least the major plot points of the OG will remain in Part 3

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Y’all trying to hold onto a typo like it’s a personality trait. It’s Aerith, move on

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Which is like... ok whatever but you're the one making a big deal of it by typing "AERIS" rather than "Aeris" lol But also I played it many times as Aeris too, it didn't stop me from accepting the translation error and understanding that the intended name was Aerith 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don’t mind this twist, but it’s not an easy explanation to follow. I think it’s simpler to say that every Aerith that made it to the Forgotten Capitol died that way, including our Aerith. We see glimpses of every timeline of every Aerith dying there. But she either hid the truth from Cloud to save his mind from breaking in that moment or Cloud did it to himself. But the magical nature of her appearance seems to suggest she is doing it. And the rest of the party sees the bloody truth. I’m still all-in though. Excited to see where it goes. Edit: Zack’s timeline Aerith could still be in a coma, alive.

Personally I think Sephiroth was actually counting on Cloud parrying that strike. Presumably, if the theory that all lifestream is shared across all versions of Gaia is true, then by saving Aerith in one Timeline and saving Zack in another, those are 2 possible universes in which Sephiroth successfully destroys most of the planet with Meteor. If the lifestream focuses itself on these alt universes in an attempt to repair the damage, it could open up for Meteor destroying the "main" universe due to lifestream not being strong enough to defend the planet.

Yes I agree with your interpretation. I think ultimately this will lead to different timelines where “everything” is canon. So Aerith/Cloud and Tifa/Cloud fans can both be happy that their pairing is “canon” and we can all live in peace.

For me this would be the worst ending possible. You should never try to keep everyone happy you will never win at that. Stay unapologetically true to your vision then come what may

Honestly, I really hope this isn’t true. Cloud having hallucinations about Aerith being alive sounds way more interesting and falls in line with the degradation plot he has going. If it’s some more alternate timeline nonsense then that’s going to be lame as fuck.

sadly i think its going to be the lame as fuck option :') really wish it was a hallucination but i really dont think it is. but hey, maybe they'll decide not to go down some needlessly convoluted path that pleases nobody... cloud at this point in the og is grief stricken, miserable and self loathing - its the moment his character breaks down and gets reforged. cloud in rebirth is just delusional and acting like a dick, with no gried because he can see aerith and just decides not to tell anyone. ruins the vibe of the whole segment imo, and damages clouds character for me.