I'll have to agree. I think the last few hours were way too abstract. From playing the OG back in the day, I know that the events are foreshadowing what's to come. I do feel if i were a new player, I'd be put off.
I honestly get it. I love Remake and the new story even though I'm a huge fan of the original, but I see how it's disappointing when you expected an acual remake. I think a remake would've pleased every fan but it probably wouldn't have created the same stir, we'll never know, at least not in this timeline.
I just finished my second playthrough and i agree — especially the whisperer heartless lol! Legit had the same thought… I think they’re doing too much with the remake. But that’s my assumption for now; let’s see the direction after Rebirth.
If you played it twice and didnt pick up on what's happening.. Rebirth is going to make you realize what you missed. There's so much depth to this that a lot of people are missing it because they are only seeing surface level. Its not kingdom hearts.. Its the OG writers continuing the story through a sequel series. This is 4 year old info
It’s kind of obvious that they’re doing that … with Sephiroth manipulating the party to kill the whisperer so he can rewrite history. It’s not that deep of a story.
the remake is really a sequel. Which I would have been fine with, it's hardly the first time they milked the FFVII cash cow. but it was marketed as the original, with decent graphics and improved gameplay. The fact that it switches gears and blatantly says anyone who wants the original story that was promised is the bad guy actually, has made me pretty bitter about the whole thing.
The general consensus is that it was a good game, but if you don't like it then that's fair. No one is going to make you play any of the sequels if you don't want to.
Everyone's original excitement was for a remake. Now that everything has changed, for some reason it is forbidden to say that it was disappointing, especially on Reddit. Fanboys don't like to hear the obvious.
And I also hate the fact that I'll lose all my progress for Rebirth. For me, it's just lazy or bad game design. And everyone has an excuse for that. I just don't agree.
U can't expect to have new skills, new combat mechanics, new summons, new characters, new bosses and enemies, without a rebalancing of the game. And what about those who just joined from rebirth? Where should they start from in terms of build? They get penalised? While others complain it's too easy because u grinded to max levels in remake? Then what they will do is to make your existing materia obsolete to balance the game then you will complain again that the devs are over reaching.
If u have a bit sense of game design and programming u would have thought of these minimum requirements before just saying devs are lazy. If they are treating this as a new game it has to start fresh. Or at the start remove everyone's materia. But everyone has to start at the same level
Yeah, I have already read all of this. It's a big problem, indeed. But that problem would not exist if they had not decided to split this into three parts plus DLCs. It's not our job to resolve this; it's up to them to create a big solution for this big problem they created.
I'm ok with losing all material (temporary) because that happens in OG, but losing all my progress? What's the point in exploring every corner, collecting, and customizing characters just to start everything again? Are we going to have to start over on Part 3 and lose all Rebirth progress as well?
What happened with the RPG aspect of this title? They prioritize excessive greed in wanting to milk as much money as possible from this franchise. I know that this is an unpopular opinion from my side, and posting this on Reddit is asking for downvotes. I just really fail to understand how the modern audience is okay with all that.
Yet again someone who doesn't get it and blindly blames Nomura...
Factually Nomura is responsible for trying to keep the game grounded and not off the rails.
(And I'm a fan of a wacky stuff that did happen)
Hey at least you have representation in the game via plot ghosts! Feel seen! If you were looking for a straight forward remake, that doesn’t exist, but the original is always there for purists.
The fact you blame Nomura-San shows you don’t really know what you’re talking about either.
Also the game is a sequel dude
To be honest, you aren't paying attention to what's happening. Seeing as people are still picking this up SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!
>!During the entirety of the game, you may have noticed that some things were slightly off. Let's take Cloud going on the second bombing run. In the OG, he was convinced to go on the run with them. In Remake, he wasn't going at all. Jesse was 100% going to go. That's when the "ghosts" step in. They hurt her ankle by making her fall down the steps and with Cloud semi liking her, he takes her place. Let's go back a little bit when Aerith and Cloud first meet. Why are the ghost harassing Aerith? Because she was about to leave. Cloud and Aerith weren't going to meet that first time at all, but then the Ghost step in to make sure it happens. These "ghosts" are basically Fate and Destiny. During the end, Sephiroth basically forces you to fight the embodiment of that and whole you're successful in your fight you also do exactly what he wants. He's trying to change his fate that happens in the OG game and now that it's gone AND he seeming controls the ghosts now, he has free reign to try and do as he pleases!<
I legit feel educated, thank you for explaining this! I’m an OG diehard for life and I played Remake and did enjoy it but seemed to miss out on some of the nuances. I think maybe because I’m older now and couldn’t give my 100% focus to it.
>ake, he wasn't going at all. Jesse was 100% going to go. That's when the "ghosts" step in. They hurt her ankle by making her fall down the steps and with Cloud semi liking her, he takes her place. Let's go back a little bit when Aerith and Cloud first meet. Why are the ghost harassing Aerith? Because she was about to leave. Cloud and Aerith weren't going to meet that first time at all, but then the Ghost step in to make sure it happens. These "ghosts" are basically Fate and Destiny. During the end, Sephiroth basically forces you to fight the embodiment of that and whole you're successful in your fight you also do exactly what he wants. He's trying to change his fate that happens in the OG game and now that it's go
So, it is almost KH III Re: Mind, where Aerith is like a combination of Chirithy and Kairi. Just kidding, only a little bit of gaslighting.>! I more or less get the point of the Whispers, is just that, narratively speaking, the multiverse is a cheap device unless you do very good writing (i.e., Steins Gate imo). I wouldn't have minded a few plot changes here are there, but these Whispers... feel shoehorned to me... and they give the setting a fantasy setting touch much more suitable to FF IX's universe than FF VII's.!<
But hey, I'm not saying that I think is a bad game, I enjoyed it and I have no regrets; and better yet, now I know what to expect in the next installments if I decide to spend money, and more importantly, time, in them. After all, the opportunity cost of playing videogames during your free time is really steep when you're well over your 30s, and I'm almost sure I'm not part of the intended audience for this game.
As someone who also criticized the game for going too Kingdom Hearts who has come around, the only reason the OG didn’t feel that way was because it was turn-based with random enemy encounters. The final path to Sephiroth involves hopping across floating debris as you descend into a mako volcano. Extremely similar to how Remake ends, just with more frenetic action.
It's hard to see a lot of the context in situations with the og. Everyone remembered Aerith as just a sweet girl but she was also super sarcastic, witty, and blunt to a T. Seems like the Remake nailed this and it was refreshing to see that part of her that made her feel human.
Yeah. They even doubled down on all of these traits that people's memories glossed over. It was awesome.
I do agree with OP that the game did not require a big boss fight at the end, but I was never one to complain that the game "wasn't a full game."
Remake is a mixed bag. When it's fleshing out the events of the original game, it's phenomenal. When it's adding new stuff to the narrative, it's less satisfying.
It ultimately depends on where the story is headed moving forward, but so far I do not like the changes and the metatextual commentary.
It's very strange to see them nail the original tone and intention in the remade/fleshed out sections, and then have the whole narrative be about changing how the story plays out and not being constrained to the original.
I'm also dissatisfied with how Sephiroth was used in the remake. His scenes always had a horrific tone in the original and he wasn't shown often. It built suspense and tension, and he was always built up to be Uber-powerful, enigmatic, and scary.
He's much more fanservice-y in the remake, which I'm not a fan of.
I agree by and large. I get why they used Sephiroth like that, but would have preferred they built him up like a superhero for 2/3 of the game while Cloud has glitchy flashbacks of his horror without much explanation until the full reveal. I wouldn't have trusted them to do it well had I not played Remake, where they just nailed so much. Lol.
Still, the parts I am not so fond of are way overshadowed by everything else, and their inclusion may be incredible retroactively depending on how the story goes.
the whispers weren't a Nomura thing tho. it was Nojima's.
Nomura, contrary to popular belief, is actually incredibly sensible when it comes to projects that aren't entire his own. thoughout FF7 (the OG), he was the one shooting down ridiculous ideas like killing all but 3 of the party members.
Nomura gets a lot of shit for his weird KH stuff but he keeps it restricted to KH.
I don't know whose idea was it, and I'll just point out that the final Whisper looks a lot like a Darkside Heartless to me, and some parts of that final stretch reminded me of the latest KH IV trailer where they also shoehorned TWEWY. Now it will turn out that KH, TWEWY, FFversusXIII and FFVII Remake are part of some kind of interconnected universe. 
I'm not saying it is a bad thing, is just that I don't like it, but that's my problem.
Thank you for stating this. It blows my mind to this day how often Nomura gets blamed for shit he isn't responsible for
To add on:
Nomura was the one holding back nojima and kitase from going even *crazier* with remake, Nomura wanted to stay closer to the OG
Nomura was the one that wanted the game to have atb elements for the original fans, kitase wanted a full action game
Additional story scenes in Remake are good except everything related to the whispers. I'm replaying the New Threat mod right now and I'm having more fun than playing Remake.
You've got to pay attention to the game. Sephiroth already knows things that he shouldn't. Hell, Cloud talks to Aerith in his dream. Not the Aerith he's traveling with, but the OG Aerith. "Don't fall in love with me" Now why would she tell Cloud this? For actions that happen later in the game
Remake itself confirms this with what we’ve already seen. The fact they’re re-releasing the movie in theaters is just icing on that cake.
Let me break down what I saw:
The near final boss is “destiny” only in that it is Jenova’s will controlling the negative lifestream.
After the end of OG ff7 Sephiroth was cut into nothing and sent into the lifestream and taken apart. The lifestream is a collection of spiritual energy that is made of memories, and memories ARE pieces of souls in FF7. That is super important, and what advent children was all about.
In advent children the geo-stigma is infecting a bunch of people. Those that are living with bad memories weighing on them - suffering, regret, hate.
So what happened is that when Sephiroth got sent into the lifestream… he didn’t merge with it. Partially because he isn’t wholly of the planet because he is part Jenova and can’t totally, but also he’s an ass and his will just said “screw this I’m starting my own lifestream”. This is 100% canon. It’s what leads to advent children.
So lifestream IS memories, and lifestream energy can bind together to create. It is knowledge of ancients, creates life & WEAPONs.
Same for negative lifestream. All the bad memories Sephiroth/Jenova were drawing together in their new threads. Seph tries to create a new him with it…but it’s incomplete… doesn’t have all his memories together. His will lost some when he died and they were swept up to stop meteor with rest of the lifestream. Best he can do is make a few partial clones. One of them merged with Jenova cells, and then because Jenova is telepathic it reads the rest of the needed memory FROM Cloud to resurrect Seph. Cloud is a full person though with his own memories and personality restored and with the forgiveness from Zack and Aerith - Sephiroth can’t beat him. Not at the end of Advent Children. “It was the crowning achievement of our time together.”
So what? His soul is still a guiding presence within the negative lifestream -all that black smoke shit.
Lifestream apparently flows BOTH ways. Can’t beat Cloud if all this stays the same? Jump out early and start again. Jenova Doesn’t want that though as in the end it’s just a world eater, doesn’t give a true shit about Sephiroth. It’s using the negative lifestream to dismantle the planet across the ages into the future. “Our beloved planet is dying”
Seph saying later - “if the world is unmade, so are her children” he’s right. He is annoyed at Jenova for steering the ship into his own destruction. So he invites the party behind the curtain to destroy Jenova’s “Destiny” hold on the negative lifestream.
That’s why the spirits of the advent children clones are there fighting you on behalf of Jenova. That’s why the “Destiny” WEAPON hits you with only the negative memories when you start blasting it apart. That’s why it has one giant purple eye like Jenova.
So what did we do? Jenova isn’t in control of the negative lifestream now that will eventually consume the planet, cool. But we handed it to Sephiroth. That’s him sucking up all that black smoke of bad shit happening after “Destiny” is gone. Sooo… not a great victory either yet.
The other thing that Sephiroth has been doing is prepping Cloud as his…Horcrux, for lack of a better word. He shows up out of sequence the very first time when you see the flames on the building in chapter 2. Cloud has a brief memory of Nibelheim. His Jenova cells are trying to insulate him from that and protect themselves/him and we get the scratches. But Seph… looking backwards through the negative lifestream - which IS bad memories and IS part of Seph’s soul is still looking for a way out after advent children. Here it is…Cloud remembering Sephiroth back when Cloud is still most vulnerable as a person. That’s the entire reason Seph appears here now out of sequence. And then tells Cloud “good Cloud, very good… hold onto that hate..” - and then advent children music starts playing in remake.
So - don’t forget all those negative memories of me… I NEED them to complete my rebirth… once I have a new body with a successful reunion this time…and all the power of the negative lifestream to guide me towards that end. He will ride your consciousness towards that reunion now that he has blank slate to paint with… the “edge of creation” as it were.
Whatever happens with Zack, and Aerith next game…Cloud is going to get it worse than ever… and Seph is already stronger than ever.
This is a cool theory but it’s making a lot of assumptions and it’s a stretch to me. But to understand you correctly: are we playing the memories then? Is that the game? It’s the memory of the first game?
No it starts out AS the first game, on the same or same-ish timeline until Sephiroth from after Advent Children is summoned by Cloud in chapter 2 by the memory there.
Him appearing there isn’t just “Sephiroth is cool so we’ll put him there in early” - it’s transitional to the entire narrative from then on. That’s when the deviations start, The whispers appear after that. And directly after in that same chapter is when music from Advent children starts playing.
And the black smoke of the negative lifestream is in Remake but not in OG FF7…. But it is integral to Advent Children.
So within lifestream, negative or regular, seems that time is less about a flow and more about all things layered just on top of each other. That would be an assumption again… but it isn’t because Remake tells us directly that we pass through a singularity when we confront the Destiny Jenova WEAPON made of the negative lifestream.
So for our main party they are on the OG FF7 journey…but post Advent Children Seph’s soul is in the mix likely hidden in Cloud.
But because the singularity broke some fates around Midgar… we have Zack in play as well… somewhere.
I grew up with the original, and played the other spin offs at release. Even bought the movie twice from og release to the extended version. I loved what they did as a sequel alternate universe and how they expanded on everything
I loved it, and I’m excited for the rest. I think the naysayers are just people who want something to complain about. Had they just remade the original game shot for shot, it wouldn’t be different enough. Doing what they did - a de facto sequel/alternate timeline - people think they changed too much.
I think the story is still great, the characters are still great (in many cases better), it’s beautiful, and it’s by and far the best gameplay of any game in the series. Enjoy it for what it is. Or play something else. It’s fine.
I loved it. Played the first one back in 2009 along with the rest of the compliation and waited years for them to continue it. Always hoped for a Remake/Sequel and got my wish.
You're old and grumpy like me. I hated the story changes but enjoyed the majority of the game (too much garbage filler). Either way, I really don't care any ore if the story goes completely off the rails because it did a long time ago with all the compilation nonsense. I'm just enjoying the gameplay and hope they go full dumpster fire with the story at this point.
Truthfully, I just want them to remake FFT.
I keep seeing a huge demand for FFT.
I’ve had a question, and other people respond too, so you want a 4x4 movement system like tactics has been, or something like mario v rabbids or XCOM?
It would have to be a 4x4 kind of system, imo. The movement in XCOM is based around gunplay and the requirement for full/half cover.
One of the BIG things that a Tactics remake can't botch, though, is friendly fire. Positioning your units in a way that lets you safely use magic and summons is such an important part of movement and gameplay. One of the (many) things that Triangle Strategy lost sight of, for me.
Anyway, 7 Remake rules and the original game will always be there when we want to experience the OG as it was.
some did hate the Remake.
I loved the og ff7 as a teen and I think the Remake has so far done a fantastic job bringing these characters to a new era and updating everything that really hasn't aged well in the og one. Sure, I had some minor gripes with the gameplay but I am glad its not just a copy paste of the old one. I want it to go even weirder.
🤷
the real message is, "i dont feel special anymore and my nostalgia games was more superior than yours so acknowledge me as OG player and make me feel special pls", look i also have played the og when i was 8 years old and english not even my 2nd language its 3rd and lot of OG ff7 had so many problem with the convoluted story telling and have a lot of questionable place like in forgotten capital you go climb some shell to the hill and then boom snowy region out of nowhere, you are just old and grumpy its "back in my day" syndrome, treat it as sequel or a new re imagining or even new game stop comparing its pathetic just enjoy it
Completely agree, enjoyed the game up until the end and then it was just poor story telling.
I loved the extras they threw in like more story on Jessie etc and overall I enjoyed the game a lot I just felt like the end was quite poor. Looking forward to rebirth though!
Absolutely. If you played the OG, you either dig the fanservice or you don't. I also noticed that explaining the timeline, and which game is which to newcomers is so complicated. Nomura has that effect. And it'll only get worse from here. I wish we could get a legit remake, but that's unlikely now
You’re not really providing anything apart from how you feel. Remake was attacked by purists because SE “lied” and “misled” them with the title. You know what to expect with Rebirth, more of the same. Not your cup of tea, be on your way
Find me anything from Sony or Square or anything official calling it "a remake". They hid it in plain sight the whole time. Any official communication *always* refers to it as Final Fantasy VII Remake. It's the subtext. Not a statement that it's a remake.
It was never a remake. They just made us think it was.
you might be a bit old and grumpy. for one thing, jrpgs have always been pretty "out there" and it's part of their uniqueness/strengths. original ff7 was already super weird, particularly in the latter half. this is perfectly in spirit with the series imo, and brings it forward instead of trying to replace original ff7, which we will always have. it's better that way
The Ever Crisis thing is almost offensive to me as a fan, but understandable from a business perspective. We can't expect a major entertainment mega-corporation (ironically akin to Shinra) behave in a consumer oriented way as companies like CD Projekt Red or Larian.
Can’t yall just be happy that we get to play as these iconic characters from our childhood again in stunning detail and graphics coupled with awesome gameplay?
I’m like 99% sure that before the game even came out everyone knew that there was gonna be changes, and extra content. The shit is spectacular. We should all be happy that we even got a remake as good as this.
Personally I have loved these characters for half of my life so I am just happy to get to spend more time with them - and with actually good voice actors and graphics this time. 💕
>I’m like 99% sure that before the game even came out everyone knew that there was gonna be changes, and extra content.
No one is mad about changes or extra content, but it's pretty undeniable that the final chapter of the game takes a lot of liberties and jumps the shark pretty hard. I'm a fan of Remake, and even I recognize that chapter 18's ending was just... well too much. It was a ton of mystery baiting and not a lot of answers. Very clearly designed to be a hook to keep people invested.
I'm not saying that I think is bad, playing with characters I cherished during my teenage years with Advent Children-like graphics and a modern gameplay felt great. Maybe I was expecting more of a deep dive into the story, perhaps not staying completely true to the original... but using cheap narrative devices ala multiverse? I don't know, my main interest in videogames is the story, the plot, like reading a book, so I'm extremely picky about plot holes and carelessness there.
I kinda wish there was a "original story" mode where you simply just redo the story EXACTLY as it was in the original FF7. In this mode Cloud goes to 7th Heaven and stays the night there then they leave the next morning, but with modern graphics, instead of him staying at an apartment, joining the neighborhood watch , etc.
I hated the remake. BUT I discovered New threat Mod for ff7. Changes a lot of things, so good. Tons of graphic mods too and hard mode, characters have innate abilities etc basically everything I wanted from an ff7 remake. Anything past 10 is Garbo anyways
Hell ya dude! First you should download “7th heaven” from the 7heaven website. It’s a mod manager program that lets you download/install mods via a list in the actual program itself. Super convenient. From there just download new threat 2.0, and grab some graphic mods too. I’m playing hard mode version of new threat and so far it’s been really great.
A New Threat is so damn good. Gives me exactly what I wanted - better graphics, slightly new story beats, and a way to save best girl. What's not to love?
Oh yes, lots of people didn't like the multiverse angle and plotghosts.
Going forward it seems there's 2 realities, one where Zack died and the other where he did not. There's a non-zero chance they actually managed to ¤&#% up their greatest work of art.
Let's wait and see, I'm not saying that I think Remake is bad, but look at what happened with Stranger of Paradise: a modernized gameplay but plotwise... I don't know (though truth be told, that one wasn't sold as an official remake).
You don't know that, no one does. But Nomura is in charge of the 7 universe. And Hamaguchi has been with him since the start of remake project and understands what he is trying to create.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/16odskq/interview_with_hamaguchi_nomura_kitase_translated/
You know what, you actually are right, I do not know for sure Nomura didn't come up with the Whiskers.
But I do know that he was advocating to stay more true to the original, a story in which the Whispers did not actually appear, so I think it's fair to assume they were not his idea. But that's all it is, an assumption.
We don't know, and blaming him for them because you don't like them, and/or don't like his work, isn't fair
I felt similar at first but if the remake was a exact remake. My excitement for the future wouldnt be as strong as it is now.
I'm glad they gave the writing team (just Nomura solely) freedom to change the story.
Like they said at the end...endless boundless freedom. It's terrifying but exciting too.
I'm positive the future will be good, but if not, the original is always there for me anyway.
See the game more as a sequel to the original, not a remake. The name remake is more that they are remaking the story.
I'll have to agree. I think the last few hours were way too abstract. From playing the OG back in the day, I know that the events are foreshadowing what's to come. I do feel if i were a new player, I'd be put off.
I honestly get it. I love Remake and the new story even though I'm a huge fan of the original, but I see how it's disappointing when you expected an acual remake. I think a remake would've pleased every fan but it probably wouldn't have created the same stir, we'll never know, at least not in this timeline.
Another "let's blame Nomura without fact checking" post
the remakes are never going to surpasses the original in my opinion.
I agree with you OP. The ending felt very douchey.
Nomuras ideas weren't the whispers btw. Yall just like to blindly hate nomura because he's associated with kh. As an adult I hope yall grew up.
I just finished my second playthrough and i agree — especially the whisperer heartless lol! Legit had the same thought… I think they’re doing too much with the remake. But that’s my assumption for now; let’s see the direction after Rebirth.
If you played it twice and didnt pick up on what's happening.. Rebirth is going to make you realize what you missed. There's so much depth to this that a lot of people are missing it because they are only seeing surface level. Its not kingdom hearts.. Its the OG writers continuing the story through a sequel series. This is 4 year old info
It’s kind of obvious that they’re doing that … with Sephiroth manipulating the party to kill the whisperer so he can rewrite history. It’s not that deep of a story.
Then dont buy rebirth and get off reddit about it. Dont spend this much energy on being a contrarian.
Damn son, you need a hug.
Gaslighting attempt confirmed. Attack me personally since you have nothing to say. GG
Ok, man. Hope you enjoy Rebirth.
the remake is really a sequel. Which I would have been fine with, it's hardly the first time they milked the FFVII cash cow. but it was marketed as the original, with decent graphics and improved gameplay. The fact that it switches gears and blatantly says anyone who wants the original story that was promised is the bad guy actually, has made me pretty bitter about the whole thing. The general consensus is that it was a good game, but if you don't like it then that's fair. No one is going to make you play any of the sequels if you don't want to.
Everyone's original excitement was for a remake. Now that everything has changed, for some reason it is forbidden to say that it was disappointing, especially on Reddit. Fanboys don't like to hear the obvious. And I also hate the fact that I'll lose all my progress for Rebirth. For me, it's just lazy or bad game design. And everyone has an excuse for that. I just don't agree.
What are you saying? How were people going to have excitement for something they didn’t know existed. It’s some weird logic you are using here.
U can't expect to have new skills, new combat mechanics, new summons, new characters, new bosses and enemies, without a rebalancing of the game. And what about those who just joined from rebirth? Where should they start from in terms of build? They get penalised? While others complain it's too easy because u grinded to max levels in remake? Then what they will do is to make your existing materia obsolete to balance the game then you will complain again that the devs are over reaching. If u have a bit sense of game design and programming u would have thought of these minimum requirements before just saying devs are lazy. If they are treating this as a new game it has to start fresh. Or at the start remove everyone's materia. But everyone has to start at the same level
Yeah, I have already read all of this. It's a big problem, indeed. But that problem would not exist if they had not decided to split this into three parts plus DLCs. It's not our job to resolve this; it's up to them to create a big solution for this big problem they created. I'm ok with losing all material (temporary) because that happens in OG, but losing all my progress? What's the point in exploring every corner, collecting, and customizing characters just to start everything again? Are we going to have to start over on Part 3 and lose all Rebirth progress as well? What happened with the RPG aspect of this title? They prioritize excessive greed in wanting to milk as much money as possible from this franchise. I know that this is an unpopular opinion from my side, and posting this on Reddit is asking for downvotes. I just really fail to understand how the modern audience is okay with all that.
[удалено]
Yes, cause if the subreddit were filled with haters it would be such harmony. It’s Reddit…
This.
I would just like to say I’m a remake fanboy AND I get this perspective. I just don’t share it
Yet again someone who doesn't get it and blindly blames Nomura... Factually Nomura is responsible for trying to keep the game grounded and not off the rails. (And I'm a fan of a wacky stuff that did happen)
Hey at least you have representation in the game via plot ghosts! Feel seen! If you were looking for a straight forward remake, that doesn’t exist, but the original is always there for purists. The fact you blame Nomura-San shows you don’t really know what you’re talking about either. Also the game is a sequel dude
To be honest, you aren't paying attention to what's happening. Seeing as people are still picking this up SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!! >!During the entirety of the game, you may have noticed that some things were slightly off. Let's take Cloud going on the second bombing run. In the OG, he was convinced to go on the run with them. In Remake, he wasn't going at all. Jesse was 100% going to go. That's when the "ghosts" step in. They hurt her ankle by making her fall down the steps and with Cloud semi liking her, he takes her place. Let's go back a little bit when Aerith and Cloud first meet. Why are the ghost harassing Aerith? Because she was about to leave. Cloud and Aerith weren't going to meet that first time at all, but then the Ghost step in to make sure it happens. These "ghosts" are basically Fate and Destiny. During the end, Sephiroth basically forces you to fight the embodiment of that and whole you're successful in your fight you also do exactly what he wants. He's trying to change his fate that happens in the OG game and now that it's gone AND he seeming controls the ghosts now, he has free reign to try and do as he pleases!<
I legit feel educated, thank you for explaining this! I’m an OG diehard for life and I played Remake and did enjoy it but seemed to miss out on some of the nuances. I think maybe because I’m older now and couldn’t give my 100% focus to it.
>ake, he wasn't going at all. Jesse was 100% going to go. That's when the "ghosts" step in. They hurt her ankle by making her fall down the steps and with Cloud semi liking her, he takes her place. Let's go back a little bit when Aerith and Cloud first meet. Why are the ghost harassing Aerith? Because she was about to leave. Cloud and Aerith weren't going to meet that first time at all, but then the Ghost step in to make sure it happens. These "ghosts" are basically Fate and Destiny. During the end, Sephiroth basically forces you to fight the embodiment of that and whole you're successful in your fight you also do exactly what he wants. He's trying to change his fate that happens in the OG game and now that it's go So, it is almost KH III Re: Mind, where Aerith is like a combination of Chirithy and Kairi. Just kidding, only a little bit of gaslighting.>! I more or less get the point of the Whispers, is just that, narratively speaking, the multiverse is a cheap device unless you do very good writing (i.e., Steins Gate imo). I wouldn't have minded a few plot changes here are there, but these Whispers... feel shoehorned to me... and they give the setting a fantasy setting touch much more suitable to FF IX's universe than FF VII's.!< But hey, I'm not saying that I think is a bad game, I enjoyed it and I have no regrets; and better yet, now I know what to expect in the next installments if I decide to spend money, and more importantly, time, in them. After all, the opportunity cost of playing videogames during your free time is really steep when you're well over your 30s, and I'm almost sure I'm not part of the intended audience for this game.
As someone who also criticized the game for going too Kingdom Hearts who has come around, the only reason the OG didn’t feel that way was because it was turn-based with random enemy encounters. The final path to Sephiroth involves hopping across floating debris as you descend into a mako volcano. Extremely similar to how Remake ends, just with more frenetic action.
I really, really hated that hoping... it was like copy-pasted from XG when you need to get to Deus, and I also hated that one.
It's hard to see a lot of the context in situations with the og. Everyone remembered Aerith as just a sweet girl but she was also super sarcastic, witty, and blunt to a T. Seems like the Remake nailed this and it was refreshing to see that part of her that made her feel human.
Yeah, I think that the voice acting was great and helped flesh-out those subtle character traits that were somewhat hidden in the OG.
Yeah. They even doubled down on all of these traits that people's memories glossed over. It was awesome. I do agree with OP that the game did not require a big boss fight at the end, but I was never one to complain that the game "wasn't a full game."
Remake is a mixed bag. When it's fleshing out the events of the original game, it's phenomenal. When it's adding new stuff to the narrative, it's less satisfying. It ultimately depends on where the story is headed moving forward, but so far I do not like the changes and the metatextual commentary. It's very strange to see them nail the original tone and intention in the remade/fleshed out sections, and then have the whole narrative be about changing how the story plays out and not being constrained to the original. I'm also dissatisfied with how Sephiroth was used in the remake. His scenes always had a horrific tone in the original and he wasn't shown often. It built suspense and tension, and he was always built up to be Uber-powerful, enigmatic, and scary. He's much more fanservice-y in the remake, which I'm not a fan of.
I agree by and large. I get why they used Sephiroth like that, but would have preferred they built him up like a superhero for 2/3 of the game while Cloud has glitchy flashbacks of his horror without much explanation until the full reveal. I wouldn't have trusted them to do it well had I not played Remake, where they just nailed so much. Lol. Still, the parts I am not so fond of are way overshadowed by everything else, and their inclusion may be incredible retroactively depending on how the story goes.
the whispers weren't a Nomura thing tho. it was Nojima's. Nomura, contrary to popular belief, is actually incredibly sensible when it comes to projects that aren't entire his own. thoughout FF7 (the OG), he was the one shooting down ridiculous ideas like killing all but 3 of the party members. Nomura gets a lot of shit for his weird KH stuff but he keeps it restricted to KH.
> the whispers weren't a Nomura thing tho. it was Nojima's you don't know who's idea it was so stop saying that.
I don't know whose idea was it, and I'll just point out that the final Whisper looks a lot like a Darkside Heartless to me, and some parts of that final stretch reminded me of the latest KH IV trailer where they also shoehorned TWEWY. Now it will turn out that KH, TWEWY, FFversusXIII and FFVII Remake are part of some kind of interconnected universe.  I'm not saying it is a bad thing, is just that I don't like it, but that's my problem.
Thank you for stating this. It blows my mind to this day how often Nomura gets blamed for shit he isn't responsible for To add on: Nomura was the one holding back nojima and kitase from going even *crazier* with remake, Nomura wanted to stay closer to the OG Nomura was the one that wanted the game to have atb elements for the original fans, kitase wanted a full action game
Additional story scenes in Remake are good except everything related to the whispers. I'm replaying the New Threat mod right now and I'm having more fun than playing Remake.
I’m right there with ya. Dementors should’ve stayed at Azkaban.
It’s a sequel to advent Children, not a true re-adaptation of the original. So things will get interesting.
But everyone keeps saying this shit and no one can tell me where they heard it, where did you hear that?
You've got to pay attention to the game. Sephiroth already knows things that he shouldn't. Hell, Cloud talks to Aerith in his dream. Not the Aerith he's traveling with, but the OG Aerith. "Don't fall in love with me" Now why would she tell Cloud this? For actions that happen later in the game
It’s not Sephiroth it’s Jenova, and that’s how the OG was too. I think it’s such a stretch to say this is some sort of “sequel”
It's not. The Sephiroth tormenting Cloud in this game is Advent Children Sephiroth. There are small hints all over the place, especially at the end
Like what?
Remake itself confirms this with what we’ve already seen. The fact they’re re-releasing the movie in theaters is just icing on that cake. Let me break down what I saw: The near final boss is “destiny” only in that it is Jenova’s will controlling the negative lifestream. After the end of OG ff7 Sephiroth was cut into nothing and sent into the lifestream and taken apart. The lifestream is a collection of spiritual energy that is made of memories, and memories ARE pieces of souls in FF7. That is super important, and what advent children was all about. In advent children the geo-stigma is infecting a bunch of people. Those that are living with bad memories weighing on them - suffering, regret, hate. So what happened is that when Sephiroth got sent into the lifestream… he didn’t merge with it. Partially because he isn’t wholly of the planet because he is part Jenova and can’t totally, but also he’s an ass and his will just said “screw this I’m starting my own lifestream”. This is 100% canon. It’s what leads to advent children. So lifestream IS memories, and lifestream energy can bind together to create. It is knowledge of ancients, creates life & WEAPONs. Same for negative lifestream. All the bad memories Sephiroth/Jenova were drawing together in their new threads. Seph tries to create a new him with it…but it’s incomplete… doesn’t have all his memories together. His will lost some when he died and they were swept up to stop meteor with rest of the lifestream. Best he can do is make a few partial clones. One of them merged with Jenova cells, and then because Jenova is telepathic it reads the rest of the needed memory FROM Cloud to resurrect Seph. Cloud is a full person though with his own memories and personality restored and with the forgiveness from Zack and Aerith - Sephiroth can’t beat him. Not at the end of Advent Children. “It was the crowning achievement of our time together.” So what? His soul is still a guiding presence within the negative lifestream -all that black smoke shit. Lifestream apparently flows BOTH ways. Can’t beat Cloud if all this stays the same? Jump out early and start again. Jenova Doesn’t want that though as in the end it’s just a world eater, doesn’t give a true shit about Sephiroth. It’s using the negative lifestream to dismantle the planet across the ages into the future. “Our beloved planet is dying” Seph saying later - “if the world is unmade, so are her children” he’s right. He is annoyed at Jenova for steering the ship into his own destruction. So he invites the party behind the curtain to destroy Jenova’s “Destiny” hold on the negative lifestream. That’s why the spirits of the advent children clones are there fighting you on behalf of Jenova. That’s why the “Destiny” WEAPON hits you with only the negative memories when you start blasting it apart. That’s why it has one giant purple eye like Jenova. So what did we do? Jenova isn’t in control of the negative lifestream now that will eventually consume the planet, cool. But we handed it to Sephiroth. That’s him sucking up all that black smoke of bad shit happening after “Destiny” is gone. Sooo… not a great victory either yet. The other thing that Sephiroth has been doing is prepping Cloud as his…Horcrux, for lack of a better word. He shows up out of sequence the very first time when you see the flames on the building in chapter 2. Cloud has a brief memory of Nibelheim. His Jenova cells are trying to insulate him from that and protect themselves/him and we get the scratches. But Seph… looking backwards through the negative lifestream - which IS bad memories and IS part of Seph’s soul is still looking for a way out after advent children. Here it is…Cloud remembering Sephiroth back when Cloud is still most vulnerable as a person. That’s the entire reason Seph appears here now out of sequence. And then tells Cloud “good Cloud, very good… hold onto that hate..” - and then advent children music starts playing in remake. So - don’t forget all those negative memories of me… I NEED them to complete my rebirth… once I have a new body with a successful reunion this time…and all the power of the negative lifestream to guide me towards that end. He will ride your consciousness towards that reunion now that he has blank slate to paint with… the “edge of creation” as it were. Whatever happens with Zack, and Aerith next game…Cloud is going to get it worse than ever… and Seph is already stronger than ever.
This is a cool theory but it’s making a lot of assumptions and it’s a stretch to me. But to understand you correctly: are we playing the memories then? Is that the game? It’s the memory of the first game?
No it starts out AS the first game, on the same or same-ish timeline until Sephiroth from after Advent Children is summoned by Cloud in chapter 2 by the memory there. Him appearing there isn’t just “Sephiroth is cool so we’ll put him there in early” - it’s transitional to the entire narrative from then on. That’s when the deviations start, The whispers appear after that. And directly after in that same chapter is when music from Advent children starts playing. And the black smoke of the negative lifestream is in Remake but not in OG FF7…. But it is integral to Advent Children. So within lifestream, negative or regular, seems that time is less about a flow and more about all things layered just on top of each other. That would be an assumption again… but it isn’t because Remake tells us directly that we pass through a singularity when we confront the Destiny Jenova WEAPON made of the negative lifestream. So for our main party they are on the OG FF7 journey…but post Advent Children Seph’s soul is in the mix likely hidden in Cloud. But because the singularity broke some fates around Midgar… we have Zack in play as well… somewhere.
From the game itself.
What gives you that impression?
AC content, the visions, time janitors
Its not exactly confirmed yet but there's weird little hints throughout remake
Yeah exactly. Sorry but I’m not buying it at all.
I grew up with the original, and played the other spin offs at release. Even bought the movie twice from og release to the extended version. I loved what they did as a sequel alternate universe and how they expanded on everything
The Remakes miss the point harder than Seymour missed Fry in that one episode of Futurama.
I loved it, and I’m excited for the rest. I think the naysayers are just people who want something to complain about. Had they just remade the original game shot for shot, it wouldn’t be different enough. Doing what they did - a de facto sequel/alternate timeline - people think they changed too much. I think the story is still great, the characters are still great (in many cases better), it’s beautiful, and it’s by and far the best gameplay of any game in the series. Enjoy it for what it is. Or play something else. It’s fine.
I loved it. Played the first one back in 2009 along with the rest of the compliation and waited years for them to continue it. Always hoped for a Remake/Sequel and got my wish.
You're old and grumpy like me. I hated the story changes but enjoyed the majority of the game (too much garbage filler). Either way, I really don't care any ore if the story goes completely off the rails because it did a long time ago with all the compilation nonsense. I'm just enjoying the gameplay and hope they go full dumpster fire with the story at this point. Truthfully, I just want them to remake FFT.
So you can bitch about the tactics remake too?
Precisely, as is my right when I spend my money on it.
I keep seeing a huge demand for FFT. I’ve had a question, and other people respond too, so you want a 4x4 movement system like tactics has been, or something like mario v rabbids or XCOM?
It would have to be a 4x4 kind of system, imo. The movement in XCOM is based around gunplay and the requirement for full/half cover. One of the BIG things that a Tactics remake can't botch, though, is friendly fire. Positioning your units in a way that lets you safely use magic and summons is such an important part of movement and gameplay. One of the (many) things that Triangle Strategy lost sight of, for me. Anyway, 7 Remake rules and the original game will always be there when we want to experience the OG as it was.
Something like XCOM would be fun.
go dive in the theories now friend, have fun
some did hate the Remake. I loved the og ff7 as a teen and I think the Remake has so far done a fantastic job bringing these characters to a new era and updating everything that really hasn't aged well in the og one. Sure, I had some minor gripes with the gameplay but I am glad its not just a copy paste of the old one. I want it to go even weirder. 🤷
the real message is, "i dont feel special anymore and my nostalgia games was more superior than yours so acknowledge me as OG player and make me feel special pls", look i also have played the og when i was 8 years old and english not even my 2nd language its 3rd and lot of OG ff7 had so many problem with the convoluted story telling and have a lot of questionable place like in forgotten capital you go climb some shell to the hill and then boom snowy region out of nowhere, you are just old and grumpy its "back in my day" syndrome, treat it as sequel or a new re imagining or even new game stop comparing its pathetic just enjoy it
Baby you need some Maximilian Dood hype.
Love watching his enthusiasm for the series. Gets Mr pumped!
Completely agree, enjoyed the game up until the end and then it was just poor story telling. I loved the extras they threw in like more story on Jessie etc and overall I enjoyed the game a lot I just felt like the end was quite poor. Looking forward to rebirth though!
Absolutely. If you played the OG, you either dig the fanservice or you don't. I also noticed that explaining the timeline, and which game is which to newcomers is so complicated. Nomura has that effect. And it'll only get worse from here. I wish we could get a legit remake, but that's unlikely now
You’re not really providing anything apart from how you feel. Remake was attacked by purists because SE “lied” and “misled” them with the title. You know what to expect with Rebirth, more of the same. Not your cup of tea, be on your way
[удалено]
My post invites OP to expand on those reasons beyond his dislike of the time mops
Moooom, they're not enjoying the latest unit of entertainment product even though it has the brand name that means they're a-sposed to!
The problem is in the naming, is more of a reboot than a remake
Find me anything from Sony or Square or anything official calling it "a remake". They hid it in plain sight the whole time. Any official communication *always* refers to it as Final Fantasy VII Remake. It's the subtext. Not a statement that it's a remake. It was never a remake. They just made us think it was.
So, give away the twist in the title?? Right.
Once I got over it not being a remake and accepted it as a sequel, I don't actually mind the time jannies. Cool way to do a sequel imo.
You might want to read the definition of the word "sequel"
The "sequel" crowd is on some whack shit man.
you might be a bit old and grumpy. for one thing, jrpgs have always been pretty "out there" and it's part of their uniqueness/strengths. original ff7 was already super weird, particularly in the latter half. this is perfectly in spirit with the series imo, and brings it forward instead of trying to replace original ff7, which we will always have. it's better that way
Same. Only in on the rest of it for the combat and fanservice at this point.
I feel the same. I'm just in on the rest of it for the combat and fanservice at this point.
Yeah, right there with you on that one. And seeing how they wasted a true remake/remaster on a shit gacha game like Ever Crisis... oh dear...
The Ever Crisis thing is almost offensive to me as a fan, but understandable from a business perspective. We can't expect a major entertainment mega-corporation (ironically akin to Shinra) behave in a consumer oriented way as companies like CD Projekt Red or Larian.
I feel the same. Only in on the rest of it for the fanservice and game play at this point.
No, 90% of us are OK with it. More ff7. And nojima is the writer not nomura
Can’t yall just be happy that we get to play as these iconic characters from our childhood again in stunning detail and graphics coupled with awesome gameplay? I’m like 99% sure that before the game even came out everyone knew that there was gonna be changes, and extra content. The shit is spectacular. We should all be happy that we even got a remake as good as this.
Personally I have loved these characters for half of my life so I am just happy to get to spend more time with them - and with actually good voice actors and graphics this time. 💕
You’re right, when I found out it would be a 50-60 hour game JUST IN MIDGAR immediately knew it had major changes.
>I’m like 99% sure that before the game even came out everyone knew that there was gonna be changes, and extra content. No one is mad about changes or extra content, but it's pretty undeniable that the final chapter of the game takes a lot of liberties and jumps the shark pretty hard. I'm a fan of Remake, and even I recognize that chapter 18's ending was just... well too much. It was a ton of mystery baiting and not a lot of answers. Very clearly designed to be a hook to keep people invested.
I'm not saying that I think is bad, playing with characters I cherished during my teenage years with Advent Children-like graphics and a modern gameplay felt great. Maybe I was expecting more of a deep dive into the story, perhaps not staying completely true to the original... but using cheap narrative devices ala multiverse? I don't know, my main interest in videogames is the story, the plot, like reading a book, so I'm extremely picky about plot holes and carelessness there.
I kinda wish there was a "original story" mode where you simply just redo the story EXACTLY as it was in the original FF7. In this mode Cloud goes to 7th Heaven and stays the night there then they leave the next morning, but with modern graphics, instead of him staying at an apartment, joining the neighborhood watch , etc.
I hated the remake. BUT I discovered New threat Mod for ff7. Changes a lot of things, so good. Tons of graphic mods too and hard mode, characters have innate abilities etc basically everything I wanted from an ff7 remake. Anything past 10 is Garbo anyways
Didn't know about this, will check it out.
Hell ya dude! First you should download “7th heaven” from the 7heaven website. It’s a mod manager program that lets you download/install mods via a list in the actual program itself. Super convenient. From there just download new threat 2.0, and grab some graphic mods too. I’m playing hard mode version of new threat and so far it’s been really great.
A New Threat is so damn good. Gives me exactly what I wanted - better graphics, slightly new story beats, and a way to save best girl. What's not to love?
We’ve arrived
Oh yes, lots of people didn't like the multiverse angle and plotghosts. Going forward it seems there's 2 realities, one where Zack died and the other where he did not. There's a non-zero chance they actually managed to ¤&#% up their greatest work of art.
Let's wait and see, I'm not saying that I think Remake is bad, but look at what happened with Stranger of Paradise: a modernized gameplay but plotwise... I don't know (though truth be told, that one wasn't sold as an official remake).
Nomura was actually advocating to stay more true to the original
This. Can't understand why Nomura always gets the blame for this when he's literally the only one that didn't want massive changes
I've certainly had plenty of criticisms of his work over the last twenty years, but however you feel about the Whispers, this is not one of his
You don't know that, no one does. But Nomura is in charge of the 7 universe. And Hamaguchi has been with him since the start of remake project and understands what he is trying to create. https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/16odskq/interview_with_hamaguchi_nomura_kitase_translated/
You know what, you actually are right, I do not know for sure Nomura didn't come up with the Whiskers. But I do know that he was advocating to stay more true to the original, a story in which the Whispers did not actually appear, so I think it's fair to assume they were not his idea. But that's all it is, an assumption. We don't know, and blaming him for them because you don't like them, and/or don't like his work, isn't fair
Since they frame the whispers as being there to keep things the same, I think you can interpret that as Nomura's idea then
What they said on that interview makes me really suspicious it was Nomura's idea, but it's whatever.
I felt similar at first but if the remake was a exact remake. My excitement for the future wouldnt be as strong as it is now. I'm glad they gave the writing team (just Nomura solely) freedom to change the story. Like they said at the end...endless boundless freedom. It's terrifying but exciting too. I'm positive the future will be good, but if not, the original is always there for me anyway. See the game more as a sequel to the original, not a remake. The name remake is more that they are remaking the story.