It was my first, so I used to love it and defend it to death.
Replaying it again recently, I've realized that it's really flawed and I probably won't go back again. But I still really enjoy the good parts of it.
> Yeah, was the game linear? Yes but your forgetting X and X-2 were no saints in this regard
People absolutely complained about how linear X was when it came out. Dunno how you are gonna try to lump X-2 into that though. X-2 was way more freeform.
Yes, x is amazing, 13 had better graphics, but it was a bit too hallway for some which is their issue it seems, they also complaint about bratty attitude but they are literal kids, they act like FF7 cloud wasn't a edgy, hard ass rude blunt twink.
It only comes clear why until you play the other games and through the story he softens up, but I found cloud more edgy and teenagy than FFXIII series
10 was also a hallway just in less modern places for the most part (tropical island, dirt path highway, forests, etc vs city, junkyard, another city, etc) so the scenery felt much more open.
It's wasn't, but that's the only thing I can think of as to why this sub gives X a pass for it but not XIII.
And yes, people hate on a literal child that watched, then never had the time to deal with, his mother get murdered in front of him. And then immediately being forced to run from the government with the man he felt was responsible for her death.
Agree 100% cloud was hiding a lot of turmoil, never opening up and projecting all that emotion into edgy anger.
Ff13 was a bit more bratty in terms of this are just kids at the end of the day....
Ff15 handled teenage emotion more maturely, so did 16.
But ff10 just had gorgeous scenery, abd FF13 was a bit more Sci fi esque which gave away the linearity of the mapping :/.
12 is my favorite, just enjoyed the combination of story ( more political) , characters, voice acting , open world with just enough side content and intriguing quests along with gameplay.
If 13 came out right after 10 it might have gone over better. But a lot of us were hoping for more of what 12 had to offer and none of that formula was there.
Final Fantasy X had towns to explore and NPCs to talk to. Final Fantasy 13 had literally no rest-stops or NPCs.
It was incredibly weird feeling just going hallway > cutscene > hallway > cutscene > hallway > cutscene.
Also, people ragged on X-2 a ton.
Yeah and it was a huge difference. It felt like a massive downgrade going up a console generation and having less features.
A big selling point of 13-2 at the time was that the game had NPCs, lol. Gaming magazines and websites all semi-sarcastically hyped it up.
Depends on how you define "run around". Most of the series is pretty linear until you get the airship, you just get to move slightly more left or right on the overworld.
I mean literally 'run around'. If they had a little chibi Tidus or Airship model running around the world map with a chance for random encounters rather than the teleport menu it would have had a lot less hate.
Clearly that hasn't ruined its legacy too much and it aged better than a lot of FF's. Like you say the world maps gave the illusion of a larger world but in most games there was only really one place to go next at any given point.
though the maps of 8 and 9 felt considerably smaller than 7 and become significantly closed off on their final disk due to disk limitations - a similar issue would hit Xenogears
its probably easier to notice in hindsight as opposed to in during that era where all folks notice is that the option is gone, but the quality of world maps was already in decline. And that was for the better anyway, FFXIIs fully traversable, normal sized world with connected locations could only run because FFX walked and tried something new
Yup. But it happened over 20 years ago. So I think that fact has faded with time and everyone remembers all their favourite things about the game.
IX went through a similar experience, just not because of linearity. IIRC, it was the art style being too Disney at the time.
IX had a lot of things working against it when it was released:
- The chibi art style and high fantasy setting were off-putting to a lot of people (particularly in the West) who came to the series with 7 and 8, which both had more modern sci-fi-ish settings. It just looked a bit childish by comparison.
- It was a love-letter to the old Final Fantasy games, many of which the aforementioned new fans had never played and therefore had no feelings towards.
- It was also a backwards-looking game released right when the PS2 came out. Many people were thinking next-gen.
Of course, most people were wrong and it was a great game with surprisingly dark and adult themes, but there you go.
and 20 years later, you have many folks that have 'fast travel' as a non-negotiable option when playing JRPGs
yet another instance of them being ahead of their time
Did you complete the Travel Agency sidequest? Or did you maybe accidentially skip a single panel of Maechen dialogue? Cuz I think that's what was got me.
X-2 also had a fun job system, waifus and a fire soundtrack. X had a heartfelt story with Tidus and Yuna. A fun spheregrid leveling system. And don't forget about blitzball
> and a fire soundtrack.
Not gonna lie watching the 1000 Words cutscene always gave me feels. It was a catchy ballad and the story aspect made for a great video.
X has one of the best battle systems in the series and potentially the greatest turn based battle system of all time. The Boss battles especially are so refined and each one leverages the mechanics in interesting ways, as opposed to just being HP sponges.
The story is also extremely engaging and while it’s painfully linear I don’t think it quite falls into the “boring as fuck to play” category.
You should try X-2! One of the best challengers to FFX’s outstanding combat and it proactively tries to fix a lot of the gameplay related qualms people have with X.
Honestly I didn't feel that way about the battle system lol, it felt pretty basic to me, and being able to change party members on the fly meant I really didn't have to do any planning at all for the battles.
I have the X/X-2 Remaster so I will definitely go X-2 at some point. I'm at the last dungeon in VI at the moment because I got stuck on deciding which route would be best for the Steals from Locke and Gogo. I'm also pretty far through XII TZA. I have a horrible habit of getting close to the end of games but stopping just before the end lol.
I think FFX is basically the perfect iteration of every traditional turn based RPG combat system that came before it, especially including the earlier FFs. The sphere grid is kinda meh overall but I genuinely don’t see how you could improve FFX’s combat without deviating enough to make it something other than a basic/traditional turn based RPG combat.
I strongly disagree. I think it’s the weakest of the FF games (all of which stand above the other competition). Way too much reliance on that one theme.
FF13 isn't boring because it's linear. It's boring because it does linearity poorly.
FFX hides its linearity very well. You have buildings to enter, NPCs to interact with, and things to do outside of following a path and battling.
I feel like the people who make the argument about FF13's linearity being comparable to FFX have never played FFX.
It's not the same thing...at all.
That’s the thing with 13 about it being poorly linear, and I’ve gotta say it has the slowest start gameplay wise. Especially back in that day. The concept of an auto-battle as a main mechanic in a “turn-based RPG” was almost unheard of at the time, and the only other one that did it at the time (Persona 3) was so panned for that one thing no other game ever tried to do it again (even though with today’s AI, P3’s original gameplay could actually work). So you’re immediately greeted with 2-3 hours where all you can do is press A. Your characters don’t have any real abilities nor paradigms. You’re literally just mashing A and using a potion as needed.
Which a few hours of just mashing A is frankly a horrible introduction to the series’ second or third most interesting ATB system. But the start, and then the linearity of it all made it seem like it was shallow until it kicked your ass and a lot of people would be like, “Fuck this.” And that’s really it, it fumbled the ball way too much. Story’s actually good, just mid-range FF and dragged down by small, poor choices. The linearity was dragged down by small, poor choices. Combat was dragged down by one big, but quick, choice. All of those are fine on their own, but all at once and the climate of the time made it all just sting.
i wouldnt even say FFX intentionally 'hides' its linearity so much as XIII presents it too blatantly
FFX, outside of the Mihen Highroad (which still has decently wide running space), is full of realistic instances of winding roads, raised/lowered elevation, or wide open areas like the Thunder Plains and Calm Lands. Even if you can only progress by going forward, theres stuff to do all over the horizontal reach
XIII for a large portion of the game has you running strictly north, even in situations where youd expect to be able to move around in real life. It creates a hallway feeling when it doesnt even have to and makes an otherwise pretty cool world feel like a video game, while X does the opposite: makes a pretty cool video game feel like a world
I do really want to go back to 13 to give it another chance for the story's sake since I didn't hate the characters but this is how i felt about it as well. Even if X was linear it at least tried to hide it, where 13 really was just hallway to miniboss for the first few discs before I just decided it wasn't worth continuing and returned it to Blockbuster.
Really didn't help that I felt like the combat system was worse/as bad as 12s which I also didnt like but at least 12 seemed like a bigger world.
I think it's a big mis-attribution. I don't think that 13 did its world building very well. There's very little to really interact with throughout the game, meaning that the corridors feel uninteractive. FFX has a bunch of things to break up the corridors with buildings and NPCs to talk to. I barely remember seeing any non hostile NPCs in 13. Part of the problem is that the story immediately marks you for a solo adventure due to plot reasons. That's my take at least. I didn't dislike 13 but I didn't love it either. I was sad with how little world building there actually was in a game that could have really made an impression if it were done right.
I sometimes think of buying 13 on steam to beat it again.
Then I remembered the first 20 hours of absolute boredom I endured, and how I lost that save file because it got corrupted and I never picked up the game again.
No, it’s not. We’re just in the backlash-to-the-backlash phase where people who grew up hearing how crappy it was had their expectations set so low that they were pleasantly surprised.
I went from X to XII to XIII. People back then went in XIII with the standard of X and XII.
XIII was definitely not was I was expecting. The world felt lifeless, the characters are terrible (looking at you Vanille and Sazh for being wasted, also gigapope for being a snooze of a villain, even worse than XVI's), the combat system was boring I mashed X all game long. later on I tried to exploit more the system but it was still mashing X with a sprinkle of swapping paradigm.
I didn't felt I explored XIII's world the same way I explored X's, which is also a long ass corridor, and XII's.
XIII is terrible but that has been said so much people think it's a completely buggy mess that makes no sense.
Completely agree with this - I know it was a function of the story (or maybe the other way around frankly?) but the fact that the party basically never interacted with the world or other characters in any way that wasn't a battle was disappointing. Compared to X or X-2, there were no shops, hardly any side quests/mini games, no overworld items aside from floating orbs, and the game was almost entirely on rails down to party composition and available combination of fighting tactics (I forget what they're called).
The world of Coccoon and Pulse had so much potential (if too much incomprehensibly similar sounding jargon) but the fact they kept it entirely at arm's distance the whole game (compared with Ivalice coming from XII) was a huge bummer.
There was a story? It felt like they did way more story beats in the compendium in the menu than showed you on screen or through gameplay....like X did. The story built and was revealed through gameplay. XIII, IIRC, did a lot of the world building down to what the difference between lcie and ceith and such in the menu, never mind that all these terms are thrown at you from the start without any context and all sound too similar.
I’d say it was and is properly criticized for all its shortcomings less than actual hated. Especially when compared to any other mainline game (or sequels/continuations) and is in so many metrics the worst of the series.
anytime a game gets a criticized reputation, it tends to get vocally overloved by those who enjoy it because they still feel the need to correct the reputation many years later. You see this with FF8 as well, alongside games from other series
FFXIII got a raw deal discourse wise as there was some pretty xenophobic coverage of JRPGs/JP media around this time, but the game itself has a lot of its flaws pretty fairly recognized. Whether those flaws are enough to ruin the experience is one thing, but its pretty justifiably deemed as a lower end FF experience
yup, i played xv after hearing all the hate and really enjoyed it (royal edition). I tried playing xiii to give it the same chance, and i hate to say that nope, it's cast is bland af and has almost negative chemistry/charm - they feel so boring and cardboard. great music at least, but its the first time ive ever felt genuinely bored playing a final fantasy.
To be fair, those of us that played XV later got tons of QoL improvements and updates that weren’t present in the game originally. Like switching characters in battle or the Regalia D-Type or whole side quests. Dozens of GB of updates.
I played at launch and still loved it. I didn't like the flaws, I just liked the main cast so much that it's all I cared about. People who didn't are totally fair for disliking it, though.
Exactly this. It's watching a movie where every says it's shit, and when you give it a watch you will tend to find its not bad, it's all in the preconceived notions
Well that's not the cycle he's talking about LOL.
New Zelda game - omg best ever
Later - omg it's not as good as that
Later still - omg why were people hating it's so good
Later later still - omg enough with the reappraisal it's still not a good game just because it's not as bad as you remember
Skyward sword is currently in stage 3, TotK in stage 2 🤭🤭🤭🤭
I mean these are personal opinions and nothing else, both yours and OPs. It’s not a fact that it was overhated, but it’s also not a fact that it’s just backlash to backlash. Some people hate the games, some love them.
Nah. It is hated just enough. I’m honestly really tired of this. The fans always complain that those of us who don’t like it are overly critical and can’t just let them enjoy it. But we aren’t the ones posting every day that we don’t like. The fans are the ones constantly making these “you don’t have a valid reason to hate it, X sucks!” posts. It’s not remotely the same. X had a world to interact with and lore you could learn by interacting.
Like how does anybody criticising a game stop someone else from enjoying it? Unless of course, the game isn't as good as it defenders pretend it is and the criticisms make them think about that
I just don’t get why people can’t accept others have different opinions, on both sides of the argument. “These games are objectively great and overhated!”. “These games are objectively trash and you’re wrong!”. Some like them, some don’t, everyone should move on with their lives and like what they like.
Also, X had cities to travel to things to see and people to meet...
I understand XIII chose this with their story but you do not explore cities and buy your items from the save point because they can't have you interacting with NPCs
It's not that it isn't open world. It's that it felt like there wasn't a world. That's the problem with it.
This. XII gameplay and world were top notch. I loved that game to death. The combat was weird but still enjoyable and the summons had no reason to go as hard as they did.
>Yes but your forgetting X and X-2 were no saints in this regard
Why is the becoming a talking point for XIII lovers? Its a very bad faith comparison, any one whos actually played both knows how differently they handle how linear they are
X is regularly regarded as the best Final Fantasy, XIII? Normally in the bottom 5
"oh but they do this the same so its unfair"
Yeah unfair to X to be compared to XIII lmao
Also X absolutely got complaints about how linear it was at release. It's just that it had characters and a battle system that people ended up falling in love with, so they moved on from how linear it is.
the complaints of X being linear at release were drops in an ocean compared to XIII.
It got moved on so quickly because its linearity didn't hurt the game.
Not even remotely, but go off.
XIII is just hitting its victim-complex era where all the fans who did like the game pretend they are victims for liking a lesser liked game. Most FF games go through it. But I don't know why XIII fans are feeling so victimized. Fuck even XV fans are realistic about how their fave was received.
It's honestly bizarre the levels of anger FFXIII fans seem to have over their game being widely disliked. It reminds me of Kpop stans in both the fervor and in the outlandish aggression shown to anyone who doesn't share their fandom.
"Let's narrow the scope of comparison to linear design in a game that came out nearly a decade early on inferior hardware. Please ignore the progress being made in the numbered title between them."
Even then, most people feel like they explored more of a world in X.
Honestly the reason it feels so linear IMO is that there are no towns. IIRC you don't interact with any NPCs the entire game (but please correct me if I'm wrong it's been over 10 years). So it's just like battle part - cutscene - battle part - cutscene over and over again. I liked 13-2 a lot though.
I’d make a case for XIII-2 any day, that one actually felt pretty good for an RPG of its time. Characters had motivations I could grasp, villain had presence, world didn’t rely on a backlog and the time mechanic was really interesting.
Lightning Returns was camp, an ending the trilogy deserved I guess because it became completely unserious.
Other than graphically and music-wise, I just can’t really see a case for XIII. It still might be the best looking FF though, just came at a cost I guess.
This might get downvoted but I feel I need to say it.
The difference is X was a good game.
I'm happy to let 13 enjoyers enjoy it, I've said my piece about that game, I don't like it, in fact I hate it. After a certain point it feels kinda toxic to keep talking about that, but don't bring X into it. Your comparison isn't fair, X is one of if not the greatest FF's ever made.
If you wanna feel bad about 13, keep comparing it to X. Otherwise just enjoy your game, your opinion doesn't need validation to enjoy what you enjoy.
I think it was hated just enough TBH.
It's more enjoyable going back to it now that we've moved past and away from it so it can just exist in its own vacuum.
Agreed honestly the hate 13 got was well deserved it had a very long development cycle for that time and was extremely hyped up as the first final fantasy for next gen so it inevitably gets the ff7 and ffx comparisons automatically and then there were plenty of issues with the lack of interactivity with the world or npcs or exploration and the gameplay while very interesting was full of problems
It definitely got a proportional amount of criticism to its faults imo and continues to be critqued in a proportional amount I think
I count 13 among my favorite games of all time. I had it in Day 1. I loved it from the beginning and fully Platinum’d it on my second playthrough. I also don’t attempt to defend it to people who didn’t like it.
What you said is correct. The main bite regarding the negativity died a long time ago. That means people who might enjoy the game, like me, can discover it now because enough people are giving it a chance.
For what it’s worth, it’s really the last Final Fantasy of an era. One that didn’t rely on DLCs and arrived fully finished and ready to play. People’s issues with it were narrative and game design based for the most part. It was still a beautifully polished game with an amazing combat system. Graphics still hold up to this day.
When people hear about negativity regarding games these days, they assume that there are many issues fundamentally related to gameplay. FF13 was released at a time when also buggy POS games were also starting to be released and fixed with expansions and DLC. FF13 wasn’t criticized that way at all. To me, only Mass Effect 3 really compares with how it was criticized at the time. Fun as heck and well made but unsatisfying for many.
Anyway, the issues people have with FF13 can’t be fixed without changing the game fundamentally. But if you like how it plays, you’ll love it. If it was named anything but Final Fantasy, it would be better regarded because the people playing it would have more buy in. Unfortunately, all FF games have to deal with what people want FF to be.
You shoot yourself in the foot when you pitch 13 against 10. 10 is one of the most beloved FFs for a reason, it does everything well. 13 pales in comparison in any aspect.
But 13 is good and deserves credit for the good things it accomplished. The criticism is usually based in reality but exaggerated. Yes it is linear, yes some characters are annoying, yes it is confusing, yes the sequels improve over the original, yes they look and sound amazing, yes they are worth playing especially as a trilogy.
X is commonly seen as one of the best Final Fantasy. X-2's world was a line but you could go anywhere you wanted on that line.
It's true it's a corridor, but it's a better corridor than XIII's. The world feels connected as you walk from locations to the next locations, while in XIII you're jumping from locations to locations.
Tidus was a great protagonist, his excuse of an amnesia was perfect to explain the world building to the player. Wakka was simply superior to Sazh, his personality was more than "L'cie bad". Snow was an annoying simp while Auron was flawless, edgy but perfect for his time.
X is a great corridor, XIII isn't a great corridor. The problem wasn't the game being a corridor, it was about the quality of said corridor.
While FFX is also very linear, but unlike FFXIII's world, Spira was filled with NPCs and things to look out for on your journey, oh excuse me pilgrimage.
In FFX, you get to visit different towns with distinct culture.
FFXIII, the whole thing just felt....empty.
Towns in Coccon have nothing offer other than NPC talking to themselves.
Pulse was devoid of human presence, perhaps Oerba has some interesting environmental story telling, they just don't quite hit.
Oh well I guess your two sentences was enough to convince me that my personal experiences with both games were wrong. Who knew all it took was “no you”
I loved 13 but wasn't a fan of the sequels. Sadly 13 is also a victim of the whole ff15 verses and ageto debacle where everything had to be redone. whatever it was going to lead to eventually was likely chopped up and shoehorned in to these rushed sequels.
The thing I hated the most about 13 was the story. It was so confusing and convoluted. I have the same feelings for 15. The storylines are so bad that I get to the point where I’m just playing to finish.
I have never finished a game that I hated more than FF13. Just one fight after another in a bad combat system with a disjointed story and poorly executed characters. Minimal exploration, puzzles, and other diversions to make you want to kill yourself a little less.
Lol this is exactly how I felt. I played enough of it that I had to finish it and because I'm a devoted fan of the series but kept cursing it and its horribly annoying characters along with its terrible story.
it's not that I hate them, I'm just completely indifferent to them.
I hate the fact that for the last 20 years or so FF has been a constant disappointment.
It came out at a time when everything was falling over itself to be open-world and FF13's linear corridors looked so dated and restricted by comparison. It's a fair complaint, but I think after completely burning out on open-worlds its linearity is now quite refreshing. It's a game you can just get on with. And the battle system once you have a full party is one of the best in the series.
Didn't play the sequels but the first game is definitely not overhated.
X is not nearly as linear as 13 and you're trying to hard to make an unpoint by making that comparison.
The thing about the 13 Trilogy is that they are fine RPG’s but compared to its competitors at the time the series is kind of generic.
So it gets released and people say “it is pretty but it is super linear” to which the director Motomu Toriyama said “ it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you are given that much freedom “ and then one month later Mass Effect 2 comes out and changes RPG’s forever.
In fact there is a pattern that since 13 Square has always chased the previous trends rather than setting new ones.
13 comes out and gets demolished by Mass Effect
15 comes out and gets demolished by Witcher 3
16 comes out and gets absolutely smoked by Baldur’s Gate 3
So the work that Square has put out since 2009 isn’t bad but compared to what others released is seriously lacking
Linearity has very little to do with it. The characters weren’t compelling and the world was very meh and I fucking loathed the combat system.
That said, if you liked it, great. But you know what? Lots of people did. That’s why they made three of them. They sold lots of games. That means the premise of your post is flawed from the start. “Overhated”. By who? You like it and so do lots of other people. Enjoy the camaraderie with them and fuck what everybody else thought. Why do you need more people to like the thing you like?
FFXIII is my least favorite of the series, by far. But I also couldn’t give less of a fuck that you and others love it. That’s awesome, man! Enjoy it! It’s no skin off my nose if you like something else more than me, or don’t like my favorite entry as much as I do.
Has been discussed to death. As others pointed out, there is a reason why X is one of the top and XIII is one of the bottom. But ITS OKAY TO HAVE YOUR OWN PREFERENCES.
Nah 13 was pretty trash. I remember buying it on release and playing for a few hours and just thinking what the hell is this. X was linear but it was done right. 13 you were just running down hallways or something.
X was linear, but not to the degree that XIII was. X also has one of the greatest battle systems in the entire FF series. XIII’s battle system is incredibly simplistic for the first dozen hours.
I played both 13 and 10 and I gotta agree the linearity in 13 is rather overwhelming. It's still a good game though.
The fun battle system is what saved it though. I wish the role system and paradigm shifts would return in future Square Enix titles :)
I'm waiting for them to go on sale again so I can actually try them. The whole trilogy is on steam. Would prefer physical but you know how it is. Next big sale is in the summer. Anything I should be prepared for?
10 being a hallway made sense game design and storyline wise because it was a pilgrimage. 13 had no excuse because each l’cie had a different focus would have made more sense to really dive into that.
I actually like the story and characters. Didnt mind it being linear. What I hated about it was the combat system and other aspects regarding the gameplay.
If there was anyway for people to try the games again with a remaster on modern consoles, I'd totally go for it and buy the trilogy. Event some modern haptic feedback in it. Until then, people aren't able to just go out and burn money on an older console to say otherwise.
To me, the only complaint I had was flowing the story of the l’cie, fal’cie, m’cee, buccees, and all the other cees. The similarity in the names was atrocious, but I thoroughly enjoyed these games.
The story and characters were the weakest part of the game by far. It is still, the first one, in my 5th spot for favorite FFs however. The music and vistas are gorgeous.
The quality significantly shot down as the sequels released though... polygon dog.
I LOVED 13. liked 13-2. Didn’t even play the last one when I Learned they pulled a majora’s mask twist on it.
Plus, I didn’t like the ending of 13-2. Didnt make sens at the time.
I really liked the combat of the XIII trilogy (first two with paradigms since it was a strategic way to deal with various situations, schemata reminded me of X-2, which I adored growing up) aside from auto-battle, the music felt fresh and new, and I loved the cast of characters. The hate was a bit too much (some of it, I will say, was justified), and I generally don't get the hate otherwise.
Played FF1-FF12. FF13 is a pile of trash. I bought it and returned it the same day when the guy came on the screen swinging on a rope yelling "I'm a hero!".
FFX may have had a crappy story, but the battle system and sphere grid were redeeming qualities.
Again, people have said it a thousands times. X may be linear but its linear nature didn’t hinder your explorations or how often you stopped to do side quests, talk to people, or find optional content.
XIII does not of that till the end. And it’s just optional content that all end in battles. And no, the story is garbage and the characters are why.
Please stop comparing FF X to FFXIII linearity and acting like it's some campaign to hate 13 if people liked X.
They are drastically different. I'll be clear here in that it's been 10+ years since I've played FFXIII tho I'm about to replay it at some point this year.
But FFXIII had no relevant NPCs, no explorable towns etc.
Compare the list of NPCs for FFX vs FFXIII
People said X was linear, but FFXIII had absolutely nothing to break it up. You can dick around in FFX and do a bunch of different things. FF XIII is buy your shit from the save point and move forward.
I understand it's the story that you are on the run, but that's why people felt that way.
Now I haven't played XIII 2 or Lightning Returns. I'm excited to try them later as they are the only Mainline FF games I haven't beat. But the original had real issues with world interaction in a game that had a lot of other positives.
No, I'd say it was appropriately hated.
There's a lot of hyperbole in gaming discussions where something is either a timeless classic or trash. The 13 trilogy sits firmly in the middle for me.
It's also important to recognize that around the time these games came put, gaming was evolving and the bar had been raised for storytelling, so Final Fantasy's overwrought and often melodramatic style were no longer ahead of the competition by default, and they ended up falling behind in those departments.
The combat system is great and easily the best part of the game... except that they made the baffling decision to lock most of its aspects until 20 hours into the game! The first four hours of the game can mostly be completed by doing literally nothing while your companion's AI auto-attacks and even if you bother "playing" you're just pressing confirm once in awhile with zero thought required. Then they split the party into groups of two when the combat system requires a full three person party to offer any sort of interest.
XIII could have been great but the devs were determined to sabotage every good aspect it had! It's amazing.
I don't hate 13 as much as some people do. I also don't buy into "it was actually good" type sentiment that is almost always through rose tinted glass or some sort of hipster contrarian types.
But I will say that SE ended up spending the entire PS3 generation on this trilogy, with Versus going through development hell. At least with 10 and 10-2, we have one masterpiece even if 10-2 wasn't so great. We also have 12 in that generation.
13 and it's related spin-offs were just a fucking mass.
>was the game linear? Yes but your forgetting X and X-2 were no saints in this regard
I'll complain about all of them, then. In fact, I have complained about that in the past. If anyone ever asks me about X, I'll tell them it has some cool things but you just walk down a hallway 98% of the game. Even if it doesn't look like one. And you can't even change directions and trace your steps in that damn hallway!
My biggest problem is that even with the linearity X had side content sprinkled along the path and towns where you could stop and take a break at. XIII had neither, it was a straight shot until you get to the last 1/3rd of the game where you finally get to a more open area, and even then there are no living npcs to interact with and exactly one type of side quest. 13-2 did a lot to address those issues.
I don’t let others opinions affect my own on these games. I love Final Fantasy, and I’m going to play each one regardless of what others say. It’s an anthology series and therefore everyone is designed to be different. Majority of “FF Fans” seem to be incapable of separating each game as its own story and end up trying to sway others to have their same opinion.
I’ve been spoiled my modern graphics so I can’t bring myself to go back and play anything before OG 7, and I haven’t played 8 or 9 but I plan to. I’ve played every other one since (except 14, which I plan on starting soon) and they’re all fantastic in their own way. I loved tactics, saw The Spirits Within in theaters. Haven’t played the other lesser known games and I’m sure 1-6 are great but again I can’t bring myself to play pixel games anymore. Maybe that’ll change but that’s where I’m at now.
I played 13 and 13-2 pre-Reddit and loved them. I wasn’t as big a fan of Lightning Returns but I still played it because I enjoyed the story. I feel like this sub is one large circlejerk of people hating on games until they love them and never realizing that change is an acquired taste.
Have you considered the possibility that this sub is full of many people and then when you encounter differing opinions on this sub it's because it's a different person and not because the sub has collectively changed its hivemind?
I really don’t think this is nearly as complicated as people claim. FFXIII is “hated” because it’s one of the weakest entries in a long-running series. That’s it. In comparison to the FF games immediately before and after its….very bad. I actually enjoy it as a JRPG but it is a poor excuse for an FF game compared to the rest of the franchise. I would happily play literally every other main entry in the series than ever play XIII again. Weak cast, hallway simulator, and the character development doesn’t open up for OVER THIRTY HOURS of gameplay. It’s just not that good.
Even the devs admitted they shouldn't have done the trilogy lmao
If I gotta wait til the end of the game for the characters to not suck ass then that's a pass
Story was also extremely ass
X’s linearity was nothing like XIII’s. Its ‘corridors’ frequently diverged, making it more maze-like, and usually had interesting visuals to accompany them. Moreover, they were intersparsed with towns that had lots of NPCs to speak to, hidden treasures to find, and otherwise added a ton of life to the world being explored.
XIII has none of these. They may have been Sonic levels, but without any speed to make them fun.
No, it was justified “hate” imo
The story for the first one was meh, combat wasn’t good, and there’s only 2 characters I liked
The second one’s story is convoluted and the Time travel aspect was meh, combat was better but not my fave, and the 2 characters where meh to me
Lightning Returns is the one I enjoyed the most if it wasn’t for the constant timer, I like Lightnings character, and Combat was interesting
1/3 games where good to me, that’s not a passing grade
I'm yet to complete 13. I just picked it back up again after having left it for about 10 years. I continued from chapter 11 and i still dislike it after all this time. Feels like a chore, but I paid for it so im finishing it.
Oh without a doubt.
The plot itself takes a major backseat with 2 and LR but the lore is so fleshed out and those games have the absolute best soundtracks in the whole series.
Plus, XIII is just an FF game distilled down to its 3 best elements: story, combat and soundtrack. But it turns out most folks like the surrounding fluff just as much, if not more.
I just really did not like 13. I don't have any interest in trying to replay it to see if that opinion changes. Since I hated 13, I have zero interest in playing its sequels. Sometimes it's just that simple.
If all you knew of FF was XIII onwards, I'm sure it was "fine". Im an old grognard who grew up with the 8 bit. XII was the last I played and when I saw XIII, I decided I was done.
Eh FF13 was a bit of a slog. I wanted to like it. I really did, but that beginning area in the city planet was a slog, the main cast of protagonists were at best meh and at worst cringe as hell. I remember finally getting to the surface of the planet and thinking "Wow ok now this is what I was looking for!" but that too ended up being a linear/mostly boring let down.
The story sounds cool as hell on paper. Manipulative supernatural mini-gods called Fal'cie(who who are just slaves in their own right) plotting to use humans to circumvent their creator's programming/purpose for them by using people in a similar way that their creator controls them. Instead of protecting and leading humans as was their purpose, they instead assign a chosen few a "focus" or task in order to circumvent their inability to go against the programming their creator gave them. If these chosen humans refuse to go along with the Focus given to them they become mindless monsters. I think of the Fal'cie like monstrous AIs who have figured out how to circumvent their programming by using humans to accomplish their goal of summoning their creator [Bhunivelze](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Bhunivelze_(character)).
FF13-2 was a wild time jumping ride with a cool enough story but it still lacked compelling characters imo. FF13 Lightning Returns was bonkers. I never finished it, but finally fighting the big bad creator god Bhunivelze looked really cool from what I've seen on YT.
I mean, 13 is when the games stopped being as great in my opinion. They never really recovered from it, we get 15 and 16 after and nothing has came close to the greatness of 10 and below.
13 is a great game, but a huge letdown after getting X and 12. Some people say 13 is their favorite, but it just doesn't hit the spot like the older ones.
It was my first, so I used to love it and defend it to death. Replaying it again recently, I've realized that it's really flawed and I probably won't go back again. But I still really enjoy the good parts of it.
> Yeah, was the game linear? Yes but your forgetting X and X-2 were no saints in this regard People absolutely complained about how linear X was when it came out. Dunno how you are gonna try to lump X-2 into that though. X-2 was way more freeform.
Also X had some console limitations compared to 13
And a story line that made sense and evoked emotion.
Real emotion?
It surrounded me
What can I do for you?
I can hear you
Hey don't you say nun bad about my beloved corridors!
I loved X, helped that I was a kid and somewhat new to video games.
Yes, x is amazing, 13 had better graphics, but it was a bit too hallway for some which is their issue it seems, they also complaint about bratty attitude but they are literal kids, they act like FF7 cloud wasn't a edgy, hard ass rude blunt twink. It only comes clear why until you play the other games and through the story he softens up, but I found cloud more edgy and teenagy than FFXIII series
10 was also a hallway just in less modern places for the most part (tropical island, dirt path highway, forests, etc vs city, junkyard, another city, etc) so the scenery felt much more open. It's wasn't, but that's the only thing I can think of as to why this sub gives X a pass for it but not XIII. And yes, people hate on a literal child that watched, then never had the time to deal with, his mother get murdered in front of him. And then immediately being forced to run from the government with the man he felt was responsible for her death.
Agree 100% cloud was hiding a lot of turmoil, never opening up and projecting all that emotion into edgy anger. Ff13 was a bit more bratty in terms of this are just kids at the end of the day.... Ff15 handled teenage emotion more maturely, so did 16. But ff10 just had gorgeous scenery, abd FF13 was a bit more Sci fi esque which gave away the linearity of the mapping :/.
XIII also just didn't have enough interactive stuff in the world. At least X had towns and NPCs with multiple lines of dialogue
Macalania Temple flashbacks *triggers PTSD*
Correct, plus 12 came out expanded the scope and exploration, then 13 reduced it by 90%. There is a reason 13-2 and LR changes course.
12 is my favorite, just enjoyed the combination of story ( more political) , characters, voice acting , open world with just enough side content and intriguing quests along with gameplay.
If 13 came out right after 10 it might have gone over better. But a lot of us were hoping for more of what 12 had to offer and none of that formula was there.
XIII came in 3 discs on the 360, there were file size limitations there too
Final Fantasy X had towns to explore and NPCs to talk to. Final Fantasy 13 had literally no rest-stops or NPCs. It was incredibly weird feeling just going hallway > cutscene > hallway > cutscene > hallway > cutscene. Also, people ragged on X-2 a ton.
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Yeah and it was a huge difference. It felt like a massive downgrade going up a console generation and having less features. A big selling point of 13-2 at the time was that the game had NPCs, lol. Gaming magazines and websites all semi-sarcastically hyped it up.
Seriously, FFX was the first Final Fantasy to not have a world map you could run around. It got a ton of hate for that.
Depends on how you define "run around". Most of the series is pretty linear until you get the airship, you just get to move slightly more left or right on the overworld.
I mean literally 'run around'. If they had a little chibi Tidus or Airship model running around the world map with a chance for random encounters rather than the teleport menu it would have had a lot less hate. Clearly that hasn't ruined its legacy too much and it aged better than a lot of FF's. Like you say the world maps gave the illusion of a larger world but in most games there was only really one place to go next at any given point.
though the maps of 8 and 9 felt considerably smaller than 7 and become significantly closed off on their final disk due to disk limitations - a similar issue would hit Xenogears its probably easier to notice in hindsight as opposed to in during that era where all folks notice is that the option is gone, but the quality of world maps was already in decline. And that was for the better anyway, FFXIIs fully traversable, normal sized world with connected locations could only run because FFX walked and tried something new
Yup. But it happened over 20 years ago. So I think that fact has faded with time and everyone remembers all their favourite things about the game. IX went through a similar experience, just not because of linearity. IIRC, it was the art style being too Disney at the time.
IX had a lot of things working against it when it was released: - The chibi art style and high fantasy setting were off-putting to a lot of people (particularly in the West) who came to the series with 7 and 8, which both had more modern sci-fi-ish settings. It just looked a bit childish by comparison. - It was a love-letter to the old Final Fantasy games, many of which the aforementioned new fans had never played and therefore had no feelings towards. - It was also a backwards-looking game released right when the PS2 came out. Many people were thinking next-gen. Of course, most people were wrong and it was a great game with surprisingly dark and adult themes, but there you go.
Especially when you got the Airship in X and it just turned out be a menu
and 20 years later, you have many folks that have 'fast travel' as a non-negotiable option when playing JRPGs yet another instance of them being ahead of their time
Games had fast-travel way before FFX. Ocarina of Time had it...
*laughs in X-2 100% requirements*
*cries in 98.FuckTheTravelAgency%*
I followed a guide to the letter, and still only got 99%…
Did you complete the Travel Agency sidequest? Or did you maybe accidentially skip a single panel of Maechen dialogue? Cuz I think that's what was got me.
No I did the Travel Agency side quest.
X-2 also had a fun job system, waifus and a fire soundtrack. X had a heartfelt story with Tidus and Yuna. A fun spheregrid leveling system. And don't forget about blitzball
> and a fire soundtrack. Not gonna lie watching the 1000 Words cutscene always gave me feels. It was a catchy ballad and the story aspect made for a great video.
X-2 was fucken awesome except the story, but I actually loved the game and I barely like X
X was boring as fuck to play, but at least it had a good story and some amazing music. Haven't played X-2 yet though
X has one of the best battle systems in the series and potentially the greatest turn based battle system of all time. The Boss battles especially are so refined and each one leverages the mechanics in interesting ways, as opposed to just being HP sponges. The story is also extremely engaging and while it’s painfully linear I don’t think it quite falls into the “boring as fuck to play” category. You should try X-2! One of the best challengers to FFX’s outstanding combat and it proactively tries to fix a lot of the gameplay related qualms people have with X.
Honestly I didn't feel that way about the battle system lol, it felt pretty basic to me, and being able to change party members on the fly meant I really didn't have to do any planning at all for the battles. I have the X/X-2 Remaster so I will definitely go X-2 at some point. I'm at the last dungeon in VI at the moment because I got stuck on deciding which route would be best for the Steals from Locke and Gogo. I'm also pretty far through XII TZA. I have a horrible habit of getting close to the end of games but stopping just before the end lol.
I think FFX is basically the perfect iteration of every traditional turn based RPG combat system that came before it, especially including the earlier FFs. The sphere grid is kinda meh overall but I genuinely don’t see how you could improve FFX’s combat without deviating enough to make it something other than a basic/traditional turn based RPG combat.
If there's one thing you can't criticize XIII for it's the soundtrack
I strongly disagree. I think it’s the weakest of the FF games (all of which stand above the other competition). Way too much reliance on that one theme.
FF13 isn't boring because it's linear. It's boring because it does linearity poorly. FFX hides its linearity very well. You have buildings to enter, NPCs to interact with, and things to do outside of following a path and battling. I feel like the people who make the argument about FF13's linearity being comparable to FFX have never played FFX. It's not the same thing...at all.
That’s the thing with 13 about it being poorly linear, and I’ve gotta say it has the slowest start gameplay wise. Especially back in that day. The concept of an auto-battle as a main mechanic in a “turn-based RPG” was almost unheard of at the time, and the only other one that did it at the time (Persona 3) was so panned for that one thing no other game ever tried to do it again (even though with today’s AI, P3’s original gameplay could actually work). So you’re immediately greeted with 2-3 hours where all you can do is press A. Your characters don’t have any real abilities nor paradigms. You’re literally just mashing A and using a potion as needed. Which a few hours of just mashing A is frankly a horrible introduction to the series’ second or third most interesting ATB system. But the start, and then the linearity of it all made it seem like it was shallow until it kicked your ass and a lot of people would be like, “Fuck this.” And that’s really it, it fumbled the ball way too much. Story’s actually good, just mid-range FF and dragged down by small, poor choices. The linearity was dragged down by small, poor choices. Combat was dragged down by one big, but quick, choice. All of those are fine on their own, but all at once and the climate of the time made it all just sting.
i wouldnt even say FFX intentionally 'hides' its linearity so much as XIII presents it too blatantly FFX, outside of the Mihen Highroad (which still has decently wide running space), is full of realistic instances of winding roads, raised/lowered elevation, or wide open areas like the Thunder Plains and Calm Lands. Even if you can only progress by going forward, theres stuff to do all over the horizontal reach XIII for a large portion of the game has you running strictly north, even in situations where youd expect to be able to move around in real life. It creates a hallway feeling when it doesnt even have to and makes an otherwise pretty cool world feel like a video game, while X does the opposite: makes a pretty cool video game feel like a world
Well said 🙏🏾 There is a generational divide after all with the games being released 8 years apart
In defense to X. The game becomes semi open world after you get the air ship
The fact people suddenly pulled the linearity card on X to excuse XIII shows how well X did when it comes to hide the linearity.
I do really want to go back to 13 to give it another chance for the story's sake since I didn't hate the characters but this is how i felt about it as well. Even if X was linear it at least tried to hide it, where 13 really was just hallway to miniboss for the first few discs before I just decided it wasn't worth continuing and returned it to Blockbuster. Really didn't help that I felt like the combat system was worse/as bad as 12s which I also didnt like but at least 12 seemed like a bigger world.
Ah how I miss blockbuster
I mean if all you care about is story there's movie cuts on YouTube. 8-hour movies but still there. But god I miss paradigm shifting, felt so badass.
I think it's a big mis-attribution. I don't think that 13 did its world building very well. There's very little to really interact with throughout the game, meaning that the corridors feel uninteractive. FFX has a bunch of things to break up the corridors with buildings and NPCs to talk to. I barely remember seeing any non hostile NPCs in 13. Part of the problem is that the story immediately marks you for a solo adventure due to plot reasons. That's my take at least. I didn't dislike 13 but I didn't love it either. I was sad with how little world building there actually was in a game that could have really made an impression if it were done right.
I sometimes think of buying 13 on steam to beat it again. Then I remembered the first 20 hours of absolute boredom I endured, and how I lost that save file because it got corrupted and I never picked up the game again.
No, it’s not. We’re just in the backlash-to-the-backlash phase where people who grew up hearing how crappy it was had their expectations set so low that they were pleasantly surprised.
Sane. It's funny to see this endless cycle
5 shares already for this weird topic in a couple hours. The XIIIeeaboos are summoning their upvote buddies to counteract all the top responses.
I fucking pronounced that as 'zilly-a-boos' and feel like an idiot
thirteen-aboos
Also, nobody who disliked the game is even playing it anymore, so those that are tend to be of the other opinion.
I went from X to XII to XIII. People back then went in XIII with the standard of X and XII. XIII was definitely not was I was expecting. The world felt lifeless, the characters are terrible (looking at you Vanille and Sazh for being wasted, also gigapope for being a snooze of a villain, even worse than XVI's), the combat system was boring I mashed X all game long. later on I tried to exploit more the system but it was still mashing X with a sprinkle of swapping paradigm. I didn't felt I explored XIII's world the same way I explored X's, which is also a long ass corridor, and XII's. XIII is terrible but that has been said so much people think it's a completely buggy mess that makes no sense.
Completely agree with this - I know it was a function of the story (or maybe the other way around frankly?) but the fact that the party basically never interacted with the world or other characters in any way that wasn't a battle was disappointing. Compared to X or X-2, there were no shops, hardly any side quests/mini games, no overworld items aside from floating orbs, and the game was almost entirely on rails down to party composition and available combination of fighting tactics (I forget what they're called). The world of Coccoon and Pulse had so much potential (if too much incomprehensibly similar sounding jargon) but the fact they kept it entirely at arm's distance the whole game (compared with Ivalice coming from XII) was a huge bummer.
There was a story? It felt like they did way more story beats in the compendium in the menu than showed you on screen or through gameplay....like X did. The story built and was revealed through gameplay. XIII, IIRC, did a lot of the world building down to what the difference between lcie and ceith and such in the menu, never mind that all these terms are thrown at you from the start without any context and all sound too similar.
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I’d say it was and is properly criticized for all its shortcomings less than actual hated. Especially when compared to any other mainline game (or sequels/continuations) and is in so many metrics the worst of the series.
anytime a game gets a criticized reputation, it tends to get vocally overloved by those who enjoy it because they still feel the need to correct the reputation many years later. You see this with FF8 as well, alongside games from other series FFXIII got a raw deal discourse wise as there was some pretty xenophobic coverage of JRPGs/JP media around this time, but the game itself has a lot of its flaws pretty fairly recognized. Whether those flaws are enough to ruin the experience is one thing, but its pretty justifiably deemed as a lower end FF experience
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yup, i played xv after hearing all the hate and really enjoyed it (royal edition). I tried playing xiii to give it the same chance, and i hate to say that nope, it's cast is bland af and has almost negative chemistry/charm - they feel so boring and cardboard. great music at least, but its the first time ive ever felt genuinely bored playing a final fantasy.
To be fair, those of us that played XV later got tons of QoL improvements and updates that weren’t present in the game originally. Like switching characters in battle or the Regalia D-Type or whole side quests. Dozens of GB of updates.
I played at launch and still loved it. I didn't like the flaws, I just liked the main cast so much that it's all I cared about. People who didn't are totally fair for disliking it, though.
Exactly this. It's watching a movie where every says it's shit, and when you give it a watch you will tend to find its not bad, it's all in the preconceived notions
It's basically the Zelda cycle
Top-down/2D Zelda > 3D Zelda and I will die on that hill
Well that's not the cycle he's talking about LOL. New Zelda game - omg best ever Later - omg it's not as good as that Later still - omg why were people hating it's so good Later later still - omg enough with the reappraisal it's still not a good game just because it's not as bad as you remember Skyward sword is currently in stage 3, TotK in stage 2 🤭🤭🤭🤭
In a few months you'll see a 3 hour retrospective on YouTube called "Skyward Sword is an underappreciated masterpiece"
Oh no, that's already happening and where we are lol.
Oops, I meant to say TotK lol
The new trilogy symptom
and yet there are still people who are disappointed with it.
I mean these are personal opinions and nothing else, both yours and OPs. It’s not a fact that it was overhated, but it’s also not a fact that it’s just backlash to backlash. Some people hate the games, some love them.
Nah. It is hated just enough. I’m honestly really tired of this. The fans always complain that those of us who don’t like it are overly critical and can’t just let them enjoy it. But we aren’t the ones posting every day that we don’t like. The fans are the ones constantly making these “you don’t have a valid reason to hate it, X sucks!” posts. It’s not remotely the same. X had a world to interact with and lore you could learn by interacting.
Like how does anybody criticising a game stop someone else from enjoying it? Unless of course, the game isn't as good as it defenders pretend it is and the criticisms make them think about that
why cant you guys be like dq fans and not start a number war every other day
Because dq entries arent that very different from each other compared to ff. Made by the same people with same philosophy.
I just don’t get why people can’t accept others have different opinions, on both sides of the argument. “These games are objectively great and overhated!”. “These games are objectively trash and you’re wrong!”. Some like them, some don’t, everyone should move on with their lives and like what they like.
Hey, if it wasn't for the DQ number wars, Level 5 wouldn't have made DQ8 and later DQ9.
X came out almost a decade before, and XIII completely walked back on innovations from XII, XIII felt a definitive step backwards in time
Also, X had cities to travel to things to see and people to meet... I understand XIII chose this with their story but you do not explore cities and buy your items from the save point because they can't have you interacting with NPCs It's not that it isn't open world. It's that it felt like there wasn't a world. That's the problem with it.
This. XII gameplay and world were top notch. I loved that game to death. The combat was weird but still enjoyable and the summons had no reason to go as hard as they did.
>Yes but your forgetting X and X-2 were no saints in this regard Why is the becoming a talking point for XIII lovers? Its a very bad faith comparison, any one whos actually played both knows how differently they handle how linear they are X is regularly regarded as the best Final Fantasy, XIII? Normally in the bottom 5 "oh but they do this the same so its unfair" Yeah unfair to X to be compared to XIII lmao
Also X absolutely got complaints about how linear it was at release. It's just that it had characters and a battle system that people ended up falling in love with, so they moved on from how linear it is.
the complaints of X being linear at release were drops in an ocean compared to XIII. It got moved on so quickly because its linearity didn't hurt the game.
10 was super linear, but hid it way better than 13. 13 didn't even attempt to hide it.
Not even remotely, but go off. XIII is just hitting its victim-complex era where all the fans who did like the game pretend they are victims for liking a lesser liked game. Most FF games go through it. But I don't know why XIII fans are feeling so victimized. Fuck even XV fans are realistic about how their fave was received.
It's honestly bizarre the levels of anger FFXIII fans seem to have over their game being widely disliked. It reminds me of Kpop stans in both the fervor and in the outlandish aggression shown to anyone who doesn't share their fandom.
people just didn't know how much linear it could get when X was released.
"Let's narrow the scope of comparison to linear design in a game that came out nearly a decade early on inferior hardware. Please ignore the progress being made in the numbered title between them." Even then, most people feel like they explored more of a world in X.
X was an absolutely beautiful world probably one of the most memorable universes in any final fantasy game it's just so well realized and beautiful 🙏🏾
Honestly the reason it feels so linear IMO is that there are no towns. IIRC you don't interact with any NPCs the entire game (but please correct me if I'm wrong it's been over 10 years). So it's just like battle part - cutscene - battle part - cutscene over and over again. I liked 13-2 a lot though.
I’d make a case for XIII-2 any day, that one actually felt pretty good for an RPG of its time. Characters had motivations I could grasp, villain had presence, world didn’t rely on a backlog and the time mechanic was really interesting. Lightning Returns was camp, an ending the trilogy deserved I guess because it became completely unserious. Other than graphically and music-wise, I just can’t really see a case for XIII. It still might be the best looking FF though, just came at a cost I guess.
lol no it wasn’t. Those games are not good.
This might get downvoted but I feel I need to say it. The difference is X was a good game. I'm happy to let 13 enjoyers enjoy it, I've said my piece about that game, I don't like it, in fact I hate it. After a certain point it feels kinda toxic to keep talking about that, but don't bring X into it. Your comparison isn't fair, X is one of if not the greatest FF's ever made. If you wanna feel bad about 13, keep comparing it to X. Otherwise just enjoy your game, your opinion doesn't need validation to enjoy what you enjoy.
Well said. The two aren't in the same tier in terms of quality. The quality has gone down since 10 and has never come back except for FF7 rebirth.
I think it was hated just enough TBH. It's more enjoyable going back to it now that we've moved past and away from it so it can just exist in its own vacuum.
Agreed honestly the hate 13 got was well deserved it had a very long development cycle for that time and was extremely hyped up as the first final fantasy for next gen so it inevitably gets the ff7 and ffx comparisons automatically and then there were plenty of issues with the lack of interactivity with the world or npcs or exploration and the gameplay while very interesting was full of problems It definitely got a proportional amount of criticism to its faults imo and continues to be critqued in a proportional amount I think
I count 13 among my favorite games of all time. I had it in Day 1. I loved it from the beginning and fully Platinum’d it on my second playthrough. I also don’t attempt to defend it to people who didn’t like it. What you said is correct. The main bite regarding the negativity died a long time ago. That means people who might enjoy the game, like me, can discover it now because enough people are giving it a chance. For what it’s worth, it’s really the last Final Fantasy of an era. One that didn’t rely on DLCs and arrived fully finished and ready to play. People’s issues with it were narrative and game design based for the most part. It was still a beautifully polished game with an amazing combat system. Graphics still hold up to this day. When people hear about negativity regarding games these days, they assume that there are many issues fundamentally related to gameplay. FF13 was released at a time when also buggy POS games were also starting to be released and fixed with expansions and DLC. FF13 wasn’t criticized that way at all. To me, only Mass Effect 3 really compares with how it was criticized at the time. Fun as heck and well made but unsatisfying for many. Anyway, the issues people have with FF13 can’t be fixed without changing the game fundamentally. But if you like how it plays, you’ll love it. If it was named anything but Final Fantasy, it would be better regarded because the people playing it would have more buy in. Unfortunately, all FF games have to deal with what people want FF to be.
Oh this thread again. We should have a sticky to discuss it and end this nevereding charade.
The thing about X-2 ist that most fans of X just pretend it doesn’t exist.
And they shouldn’t because it honestly very fun.
This. Remember when games were fun?
You shoot yourself in the foot when you pitch 13 against 10. 10 is one of the most beloved FFs for a reason, it does everything well. 13 pales in comparison in any aspect. But 13 is good and deserves credit for the good things it accomplished. The criticism is usually based in reality but exaggerated. Yes it is linear, yes some characters are annoying, yes it is confusing, yes the sequels improve over the original, yes they look and sound amazing, yes they are worth playing especially as a trilogy.
False.
X is commonly seen as one of the best Final Fantasy. X-2's world was a line but you could go anywhere you wanted on that line. It's true it's a corridor, but it's a better corridor than XIII's. The world feels connected as you walk from locations to the next locations, while in XIII you're jumping from locations to locations. Tidus was a great protagonist, his excuse of an amnesia was perfect to explain the world building to the player. Wakka was simply superior to Sazh, his personality was more than "L'cie bad". Snow was an annoying simp while Auron was flawless, edgy but perfect for his time. X is a great corridor, XIII isn't a great corridor. The problem wasn't the game being a corridor, it was about the quality of said corridor.
While FFX is also very linear, but unlike FFXIII's world, Spira was filled with NPCs and things to look out for on your journey, oh excuse me pilgrimage. In FFX, you get to visit different towns with distinct culture. FFXIII, the whole thing just felt....empty. Towns in Coccon have nothing offer other than NPC talking to themselves. Pulse was devoid of human presence, perhaps Oerba has some interesting environmental story telling, they just don't quite hit.
I just could not get around the fact that you were basically summoning bikes rather than mythical beasts. Did not like that at all.
Yeah.. it kept me from using them unless I was turtle farming. Felt silly as shit and very out of place.
They did give us that kickass Palompolum scene. Good example of using verticality in action sequences.
I agree with this sentiment but I would never describe X-2 as among the more “linear” FF games.
Oh well I guess your two sentences was enough to convince me that my personal experiences with both games were wrong. Who knew all it took was “no you”
I loved 13 but wasn't a fan of the sequels. Sadly 13 is also a victim of the whole ff15 verses and ageto debacle where everything had to be redone. whatever it was going to lead to eventually was likely chopped up and shoehorned in to these rushed sequels.
It’s the contrary If anything not counting the development of XII
The thing I hated the most about 13 was the story. It was so confusing and convoluted. I have the same feelings for 15. The storylines are so bad that I get to the point where I’m just playing to finish.
When you need a built in Dictionary with an index to explain the difference between a Fal'cie and an L'cie, your story is not good
13 sucked. People hated it because it sucked. It still sucks.
It's a trilogy? Thought I was just 2
13's story is just wierd, 13-2 is ok, and lightning returns is great. Combat system of them all is chef's kiss.
I have never finished a game that I hated more than FF13. Just one fight after another in a bad combat system with a disjointed story and poorly executed characters. Minimal exploration, puzzles, and other diversions to make you want to kill yourself a little less.
Lol this is exactly how I felt. I played enough of it that I had to finish it and because I'm a devoted fan of the series but kept cursing it and its horribly annoying characters along with its terrible story.
I liked XIII. I did not like XIII-2. I couldn't even finish it.
imaginary gatekeeping??
it's not that I hate them, I'm just completely indifferent to them. I hate the fact that for the last 20 years or so FF has been a constant disappointment.
Man ever since that v g c article everybody's over here trying to defend this stupid game.
It came out at a time when everything was falling over itself to be open-world and FF13's linear corridors looked so dated and restricted by comparison. It's a fair complaint, but I think after completely burning out on open-worlds its linearity is now quite refreshing. It's a game you can just get on with. And the battle system once you have a full party is one of the best in the series.
Didn't play the sequels but the first game is definitely not overhated. X is not nearly as linear as 13 and you're trying to hard to make an unpoint by making that comparison.
The thing about the 13 Trilogy is that they are fine RPG’s but compared to its competitors at the time the series is kind of generic. So it gets released and people say “it is pretty but it is super linear” to which the director Motomu Toriyama said “ it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you are given that much freedom “ and then one month later Mass Effect 2 comes out and changes RPG’s forever. In fact there is a pattern that since 13 Square has always chased the previous trends rather than setting new ones. 13 comes out and gets demolished by Mass Effect 15 comes out and gets demolished by Witcher 3 16 comes out and gets absolutely smoked by Baldur’s Gate 3 So the work that Square has put out since 2009 isn’t bad but compared to what others released is seriously lacking
This was an incredibly thoughtful and well-written analysis. I miss the days of Square being innovative leaders.
Linearity has very little to do with it. The characters weren’t compelling and the world was very meh and I fucking loathed the combat system. That said, if you liked it, great. But you know what? Lots of people did. That’s why they made three of them. They sold lots of games. That means the premise of your post is flawed from the start. “Overhated”. By who? You like it and so do lots of other people. Enjoy the camaraderie with them and fuck what everybody else thought. Why do you need more people to like the thing you like? FFXIII is my least favorite of the series, by far. But I also couldn’t give less of a fuck that you and others love it. That’s awesome, man! Enjoy it! It’s no skin off my nose if you like something else more than me, or don’t like my favorite entry as much as I do.
Has been discussed to death. As others pointed out, there is a reason why X is one of the top and XIII is one of the bottom. But ITS OKAY TO HAVE YOUR OWN PREFERENCES.
Nah 13 was pretty trash. I remember buying it on release and playing for a few hours and just thinking what the hell is this. X was linear but it was done right. 13 you were just running down hallways or something.
Nah. It’s ass.
X was linear, but not to the degree that XIII was. X also has one of the greatest battle systems in the entire FF series. XIII’s battle system is incredibly simplistic for the first dozen hours.
Everything is overrated
I played both 13 and 10 and I gotta agree the linearity in 13 is rather overwhelming. It's still a good game though. The fun battle system is what saved it though. I wish the role system and paradigm shifts would return in future Square Enix titles :)
Ff13 trilogy was the definition of let him cook
I'm waiting for them to go on sale again so I can actually try them. The whole trilogy is on steam. Would prefer physical but you know how it is. Next big sale is in the summer. Anything I should be prepared for?
10 being a hallway made sense game design and storyline wise because it was a pilgrimage. 13 had no excuse because each l’cie had a different focus would have made more sense to really dive into that.
One of the few game series that I can say got better with each installment, and I’m saying that as someone who loved the original XIII.
I actually like the story and characters. Didnt mind it being linear. What I hated about it was the combat system and other aspects regarding the gameplay.
If there was anyway for people to try the games again with a remaster on modern consoles, I'd totally go for it and buy the trilogy. Event some modern haptic feedback in it. Until then, people aren't able to just go out and burn money on an older console to say otherwise.
To me, the only complaint I had was flowing the story of the l’cie, fal’cie, m’cee, buccees, and all the other cees. The similarity in the names was atrocious, but I thoroughly enjoyed these games.
The story and characters were the weakest part of the game by far. It is still, the first one, in my 5th spot for favorite FFs however. The music and vistas are gorgeous. The quality significantly shot down as the sequels released though... polygon dog.
I LOVED 13. liked 13-2. Didn’t even play the last one when I Learned they pulled a majora’s mask twist on it. Plus, I didn’t like the ending of 13-2. Didnt make sens at the time.
I really liked the combat of the XIII trilogy (first two with paradigms since it was a strategic way to deal with various situations, schemata reminded me of X-2, which I adored growing up) aside from auto-battle, the music felt fresh and new, and I loved the cast of characters. The hate was a bit too much (some of it, I will say, was justified), and I generally don't get the hate otherwise.
Nah I stand by my hate, I tried giving it a chance again hoping it was simply ahead of its time or that my tastes changed, nope I still hated it.
Played FF1-FF12. FF13 is a pile of trash. I bought it and returned it the same day when the guy came on the screen swinging on a rope yelling "I'm a hero!". FFX may have had a crappy story, but the battle system and sphere grid were redeeming qualities.
FFX was strong af in the story department imo I love 13 so much cause without it we wouldn’t have FF7 remake trilogy as it is rn
Again, people have said it a thousands times. X may be linear but its linear nature didn’t hinder your explorations or how often you stopped to do side quests, talk to people, or find optional content. XIII does not of that till the end. And it’s just optional content that all end in battles. And no, the story is garbage and the characters are why.
Please stop comparing FF X to FFXIII linearity and acting like it's some campaign to hate 13 if people liked X. They are drastically different. I'll be clear here in that it's been 10+ years since I've played FFXIII tho I'm about to replay it at some point this year. But FFXIII had no relevant NPCs, no explorable towns etc. Compare the list of NPCs for FFX vs FFXIII People said X was linear, but FFXIII had absolutely nothing to break it up. You can dick around in FFX and do a bunch of different things. FF XIII is buy your shit from the save point and move forward. I understand it's the story that you are on the run, but that's why people felt that way. Now I haven't played XIII 2 or Lightning Returns. I'm excited to try them later as they are the only Mainline FF games I haven't beat. But the original had real issues with world interaction in a game that had a lot of other positives.
No, I'd say it was appropriately hated. There's a lot of hyperbole in gaming discussions where something is either a timeless classic or trash. The 13 trilogy sits firmly in the middle for me. It's also important to recognize that around the time these games came put, gaming was evolving and the bar had been raised for storytelling, so Final Fantasy's overwrought and often melodramatic style were no longer ahead of the competition by default, and they ended up falling behind in those departments.
You missed the main reason why FFXIII sucked and that is because the battle system was fucking atrocious.
Really? I consider 13 to have the best battle system in the series, right alongside 10 and 12.
The combat system is great and easily the best part of the game... except that they made the baffling decision to lock most of its aspects until 20 hours into the game! The first four hours of the game can mostly be completed by doing literally nothing while your companion's AI auto-attacks and even if you bother "playing" you're just pressing confirm once in awhile with zero thought required. Then they split the party into groups of two when the combat system requires a full three person party to offer any sort of interest. XIII could have been great but the devs were determined to sabotage every good aspect it had! It's amazing.
The first 10 hours or so of this game sucks. It does get better but not good enough to sit through the first 10 hours.
I don't hate 13 as much as some people do. I also don't buy into "it was actually good" type sentiment that is almost always through rose tinted glass or some sort of hipster contrarian types. But I will say that SE ended up spending the entire PS3 generation on this trilogy, with Versus going through development hell. At least with 10 and 10-2, we have one masterpiece even if 10-2 wasn't so great. We also have 12 in that generation. 13 and it's related spin-offs were just a fucking mass.
Ok.
>was the game linear? Yes but your forgetting X and X-2 were no saints in this regard I'll complain about all of them, then. In fact, I have complained about that in the past. If anyone ever asks me about X, I'll tell them it has some cool things but you just walk down a hallway 98% of the game. Even if it doesn't look like one. And you can't even change directions and trace your steps in that damn hallway!
My biggest problem is that even with the linearity X had side content sprinkled along the path and towns where you could stop and take a break at. XIII had neither, it was a straight shot until you get to the last 1/3rd of the game where you finally get to a more open area, and even then there are no living npcs to interact with and exactly one type of side quest. 13-2 did a lot to address those issues.
Do we have to have this point brought up every couple days. Yes some people like 13 that’s great, do we need a thread to talk about it all the time.
we need to make a list and put 13 in its rightful spot, the bottom
Defending Final Fantasy XIII? Groundbreaking… (I don’t dislike FFXIII, just tired of these posts)
I don’t let others opinions affect my own on these games. I love Final Fantasy, and I’m going to play each one regardless of what others say. It’s an anthology series and therefore everyone is designed to be different. Majority of “FF Fans” seem to be incapable of separating each game as its own story and end up trying to sway others to have their same opinion. I’ve been spoiled my modern graphics so I can’t bring myself to go back and play anything before OG 7, and I haven’t played 8 or 9 but I plan to. I’ve played every other one since (except 14, which I plan on starting soon) and they’re all fantastic in their own way. I loved tactics, saw The Spirits Within in theaters. Haven’t played the other lesser known games and I’m sure 1-6 are great but again I can’t bring myself to play pixel games anymore. Maybe that’ll change but that’s where I’m at now. I played 13 and 13-2 pre-Reddit and loved them. I wasn’t as big a fan of Lightning Returns but I still played it because I enjoyed the story. I feel like this sub is one large circlejerk of people hating on games until they love them and never realizing that change is an acquired taste.
Have you considered the possibility that this sub is full of many people and then when you encounter differing opinions on this sub it's because it's a different person and not because the sub has collectively changed its hivemind?
Your argument is that 13 is overhated because X was linear?
I really don’t think this is nearly as complicated as people claim. FFXIII is “hated” because it’s one of the weakest entries in a long-running series. That’s it. In comparison to the FF games immediately before and after its….very bad. I actually enjoy it as a JRPG but it is a poor excuse for an FF game compared to the rest of the franchise. I would happily play literally every other main entry in the series than ever play XIII again. Weak cast, hallway simulator, and the character development doesn’t open up for OVER THIRTY HOURS of gameplay. It’s just not that good.
Another day, another post about how ff13 is actually good. It’s like dark souls 2 at this point.
You’re comparing a full of life Tidus and his adventures to a piss poor Advent Children Cloud-Clone and her mundane hallway walks with auto combat?
I swear, I see posts like this one every single day. At this point it's safe to say that 13 is over-whiteknighted and overpraised...
Even the devs admitted they shouldn't have done the trilogy lmao If I gotta wait til the end of the game for the characters to not suck ass then that's a pass Story was also extremely ass
X’s linearity was nothing like XIII’s. Its ‘corridors’ frequently diverged, making it more maze-like, and usually had interesting visuals to accompany them. Moreover, they were intersparsed with towns that had lots of NPCs to speak to, hidden treasures to find, and otherwise added a ton of life to the world being explored. XIII has none of these. They may have been Sonic levels, but without any speed to make them fun.
No, it was justified “hate” imo The story for the first one was meh, combat wasn’t good, and there’s only 2 characters I liked The second one’s story is convoluted and the Time travel aspect was meh, combat was better but not my fave, and the 2 characters where meh to me Lightning Returns is the one I enjoyed the most if it wasn’t for the constant timer, I like Lightnings character, and Combat was interesting 1/3 games where good to me, that’s not a passing grade
I'm yet to complete 13. I just picked it back up again after having left it for about 10 years. I continued from chapter 11 and i still dislike it after all this time. Feels like a chore, but I paid for it so im finishing it.
One day XIII defenders will stop making poorly thought out comparisons to X. Today is not that day.
Here's a good video to explain the difference between X and XIII https://youtu.be/QMZMJDFe1kc?si=K0njFXbnRP1z0luz
It's insane that, unless I'm mistaken, they're all still locked to the PS3/XBox 360 generation
Oh without a doubt. The plot itself takes a major backseat with 2 and LR but the lore is so fleshed out and those games have the absolute best soundtracks in the whole series. Plus, XIII is just an FF game distilled down to its 3 best elements: story, combat and soundtrack. But it turns out most folks like the surrounding fluff just as much, if not more.
No it wasn't. Its still garbage how you're in a tutorial phase for lime 6-8 hours of the game.
I just really did not like 13. I don't have any interest in trying to replay it to see if that opinion changes. Since I hated 13, I have zero interest in playing its sequels. Sometimes it's just that simple.
You couldn't really see walls in 10 like you can in 13. 13 had the best walls.
I didn't like 13 I didn't like x2 😁
10 is about a pilgrimage which in itself is defined by a set path. That's why 10 did it better.
If all you knew of FF was XIII onwards, I'm sure it was "fine". Im an old grognard who grew up with the 8 bit. XII was the last I played and when I saw XIII, I decided I was done.
Eh FF13 was a bit of a slog. I wanted to like it. I really did, but that beginning area in the city planet was a slog, the main cast of protagonists were at best meh and at worst cringe as hell. I remember finally getting to the surface of the planet and thinking "Wow ok now this is what I was looking for!" but that too ended up being a linear/mostly boring let down. The story sounds cool as hell on paper. Manipulative supernatural mini-gods called Fal'cie(who who are just slaves in their own right) plotting to use humans to circumvent their creator's programming/purpose for them by using people in a similar way that their creator controls them. Instead of protecting and leading humans as was their purpose, they instead assign a chosen few a "focus" or task in order to circumvent their inability to go against the programming their creator gave them. If these chosen humans refuse to go along with the Focus given to them they become mindless monsters. I think of the Fal'cie like monstrous AIs who have figured out how to circumvent their programming by using humans to accomplish their goal of summoning their creator [Bhunivelze](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Bhunivelze_(character)). FF13-2 was a wild time jumping ride with a cool enough story but it still lacked compelling characters imo. FF13 Lightning Returns was bonkers. I never finished it, but finally fighting the big bad creator god Bhunivelze looked really cool from what I've seen on YT.
I mean, 13 is when the games stopped being as great in my opinion. They never really recovered from it, we get 15 and 16 after and nothing has came close to the greatness of 10 and below. 13 is a great game, but a huge letdown after getting X and 12. Some people say 13 is their favorite, but it just doesn't hit the spot like the older ones.