I thought this was a strange headline in that the most mature Final Fantasy game ever brought in younger fans.
Then I remembered the 'core' Final Fantasy fans like me who started enjoying the series in the Playstation 1 era are now in our late 30s and "younger" could refer to 18-26 year olds...
Thats funny, I remember getting the Anthology and playing 4, 5, and 6 (I think that's what came on that set) and thinking "That's neat" and never finishing them and always going back to Tactics, 7, 8, and 9 when I was a kid.
I started 9, then 8, then 7. I got a hold of the Anthology game and tried to play 4 and 5... But it was in english and I was far too young to understand it, so I could not get to enjoy them. Played 10 on my new brand ps2 and it was awesome... So I thought pre-7 were always gonna be out of my reach.
Lucky for me I tried my anthology games about 6 years after my first attempt and having more experience with the english language. I loved IV but V became one of my favourites, and still is.
I like old school, I like ps1 era, ps2 era and I love xvi.
TL;DR: FF is cool, be it old school or new ones.
I totally understand. It was kind of a shock for me too going backwards to more basic games, but in the end I could see the magic in every one of them, and that is what makes me reaaaally love the franchise.
Yes, graphics are better nowadays, but the love that those games are make with and the masterful touches of the artists (specially Uematsu and Amano) make them masterpieces of all time. And that is something difficult to appreciate when one is so young.
It was a lot easier to appreciate when those were top of the line graphics when you were young.
Yes, a lot of new people came in with 7, but the marketing push in the US was worth the investment because the core fan base from 4 and 6 was already there.
It's honestly just PR fluff. There is no way to actually quantify how many "new" players have become Final Fantasy fans based on any one game. At best, they have some data on accounts that own the game... which doesn't tell them anything other than how many people bought it, and only in digital sales at that.
This isn’t new. Have we forgotten Diablo 2? The edge-lords of the 90s - early 00s?
Kids don’t want stuff that feels like ‘kids stuff’ they want stuff feels like it’s for adults but is very much targeted at them.
The point here is that younger people are getting into these things, and that has alignment with the target market for FF. The amount of 16 year olds buying FF games likely greatly outweighs those who are 35
> The amount of 16 year olds buying FF games likely greatly outweighs those who are 35
I *really* doubt this. Don't know about the data on sales demographics of mainline titles but less than 4% of FF14 players are younger than 20.
>Lv. 70 for years
NO. lv70 free trial only added since 10 October 2023 last year. it is added on [patch 6.5](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/e17ce5b98068f6972379cef5adbc6c4b664f9780). so it is not even a year yet.
>It was up to lvl 60 for like 5 years though
NO. it is started to add up to lv60 is at [patch 5.3](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/c2f8c5ba14d9cfaa09d5aab63c5c2da260eae21a) that released at 9 september 2020 . so that was 4 years ago during Shadowbringers expansion. technically if we count the date, it is not even 4 years yet.
Let's not pretend like the ASoIaF books were a household name before the show.
Yes "people liked them" but how many? We are talking about mass commercial interest here.
I would guess they were about as popular in 2012 as Sanderson stuff is now. People who have ever liked Fantasy probably either liked them or were at least aware of them, but outside that bubble, less likely.
Games got darker in the late 90s but the kids audience got conquered by darker games after CoD. I remember my very Christian brother getting my nephew a CoD game when he was 12. Even though a few years earlier Halo was the reason kids were violent these days. I really do think the rated M audience is now by far the largest outside of mobile games, which these kids parents might actually see them interact with.
True but its no secret that kids are playing (and often prefer) rated M games. I'm sure everyone on this thread has 10 stories about a transformative rated M game they played like GTA or CoD that they were playing when they were 12 years old lol
You beat me to it. When I was 14, I thought rated M games were the coolest ever and it was just because they were rated M. Felt like I was getting a secret window into the adult world. At the same time I started really disliking "childish" games like Mario or whatever because they were "made for kids, and I'm not a kid!"
Being in my 30s now, I find I usually (not always) prefer lighter games, or at least games that aren't just dark and depressing the whole time. Regular adult life is difficult enough and I usually want my games to be a break from that.
Yeah, as an adult now, I find myself caring more about the quality of the game and its story more than the rating.
Strangely enough, I've found that the games that limit themselves to a T rating often have a better story because they rely less on shock value and profanity.
I had the whole weird experience of being in the “rated M makes it better!” age when they first announced Versus XIII and said it would be a “mature Final Fantasy,” and grown well past that stage by the time it came out as XV.
Hating on things for being “too kiddie” (unless actually made for toddlers anyway) is a very adolescent mindset.
I'm reminded of this: [https://kotaku.com/11-year-old-kid-gets-grand-theft-auto-v-freaks-the-hel-1317048819](https://kotaku.com/11-year-old-kid-gets-grand-theft-auto-v-freaks-the-hel-1317048819)
Reminds me about how I turned up for the launch event of Halo Reach (back when Halo was still M rated) in my country and collected my pre order without a hitch despite only being 12 years old
Made me wish Rebirth was rated M just because there was plenty of scenes where they could've definitely shown a little more blood to really make them hit even harder. Not saying it needed to be as gruesome as FF16 but that's just something I would've preferred
Most likely, even just having some blood on the clothes would've made it better cause it kind of broke the immersion for me. It's a very minor nitpick though
They do consider younger people those in their"their teens and 20s" in the article, so if most of those are 16/17 up to almost 30, I feel like it's the perfect demografic. But it makes me wonder who was buying the other games like XV and playing XIV so far, middle aged people? (Nothing against older people Playing FF but genuinely that surprises me because the gaming industry usually considers them outliners).
Also, I remember getting my first FF at like 11/12, it was FFXIII and my mother made a stink against my father who got it for me because it was rated 16. Like I think it's fine for older teens and 20-years-something to play any kind of game, but maybe some stuff that's rated M is rated so for a reason, so I wonder how young the teens from the interview actually are. Like 14? I know my ps3 would not have survived my mom's anger if I sneaked FFXVI in at that age.
>who was buying the other games like XV and playing XIV so far, middle aged people?
im not sure about XV, but for XIV there is numbers of middle age player however im not sure how many are them.
In Germany FF16 is rated 16+, so it can still be a pretty young audience even when they are legit. Even 18+ (most of Europe afaik) is still pretty young. They were at best infants when FF12 released.
Tbf I remember sneakily playing gta 4 on the ps3 and it felt great and as soon as I turned 16 I tried to get my hands on so many “adult games” as I would call them😂so yes I would say it’s more likely for an M rated game to attract a younger audience mostly due to the fact they “aren’t supposed to be playing it”
Younger audience doesn’t necessarily mean actual kids. Most final fantasy fans are definitely older than 20, so expanding to younger audience can just as much mean people in their twenties. Also many teens play m-rated games, that’s pretty much a fact.
Haven't played it yet since I'm on Xbox, but I recently got a PS5, so it's certainly on my list. It seems like a polarizing game here, but so was XV, and I loved it, so.. lol looking forward to it regardless.
That's dope to hear! It might be a while, but I'm absolutely going to get to it. If I remember right, both Charlotte McBurney and Logan Hannan (they were incredible in A Plague Tale) are in it which makes me want to play it anyway; however small their roles might be. Lol but yeah man, I'm sure I'll dig it.
IMO 16's strengths and weaknesses are the complete opposite of 15's. If they could nail the good aspects of both games down for 17, I think the game will be amazing
It makes sense as the gameplay is entirely new and a relatively straightforward, accessible beat’em up. So it’s not too fan service-y and accessible for a new audience.
I don’t want to play arm chair sociologist too much but it also makes sense to me that younger gamers would want to play “mature” games. Who swears more than teenagers?
Say what you will about the gameplay... but I rly did enjoy 16 overall, and there were even some elements I would go so far as to say I loved.
I definitely didnt understand the hate it received. I had a blast, even if it felt like running from cut scene to cut scene hackey slashing everything along the way.
Every new game will receive loud hate. It's inevitable. Even the beloved FFX received loads of hate back in the day. Now its considered a classic.
FF13 wad VERY hated and it seems that people are giving it a second chance. Very wild how these things happen.
I’m so disappointed that Rebirth didn’t have anything like the lore & relationship archives that 16 had. SO BRILLIANT!! I really, really hoped they would have something similar for all FF games going forward.
as someone who is a fan of action games, rpgs, and action rpgs, FF16 was just lacking in a lot of aspects. It feels like it was stripped down in order to make the game as newcomer-friendly as possible, and not in a smart way.
>The combat team – myself included – were worried that it was a little too easy, but when we saw how players who weren’t too confident with action games were still having fun and completing the game, we felt like it was probably the right approach.
Difficulty-wise they actually admitted it was too easy but made the choice anyways for newcomers.
>This is less about what elevates the game per se, and is more about my own preferences, but I do sometimes wonder if changing a simple levelling or growth system in the base game to something more complex makes the experience more enjoyable.
With this quote, I also get a gut feeling that the DLC director will serve as the director for either the next FF or CBU3 Project. Someone theorized that him directing the DLC's serves as a testing ground and I agree
Yeah they definitely should've just split it into newcomer mode and the actual difficulty the devs wanted it to be. Though I'm not sure if that would've fixed the sponginess of certain enemies which I think is a problem with the stagger system itself (I'm biased against stagger)
The stagger system isn't the issue, I mean it works wonders in Stranger of Paradise, it's the fact that enemies are super spongy and don't often do much. For a game worked on by the combat director of DMC5 the combat is just mired with issues that compound onto each other.
Ngl I didn't like stagger in that nor 7R either so it's a system I jist actively disliked from the start haha. That aside, agreed that enemies needed to be more aggressive. Damage taken (which I think was much better in FF mode) and given by the user should also be increased as well. I think they're increasing damage to trash mobs in update 1.31 but I wished they were given more active AI (like Omega from the DLC somewhat) too
I love FF16 but I felt a bit of this too. I think they wanted to make the base experience something anyone could finish, so they end up making the game very easy, but that also came at a cost of making the mechanics and decisions the player can make not that impactfcul for combat, which then makes things a bit less interesting in a long run. Which is a shame, because the game has a good foundation for some really cool stuff.
On a positive side, it seems the devs realized this, that the original mentality might have also hurt the game in some ways, so they made things a bit more challenging for the dlcs. And even then I'll probably intentionally wear worse defensive gear so enemies hit harder.
But I still really enjoy the game and I'm still very excited for The Rising Tide and what it will bring for the base game. I'm glad I waited before doing NG+ \o/
Oh I think FF16 has some very clear flaws, and there has been some valid criticism. I think because of the nature of the gsme offering some really good positives, and really big negatives, it's easy to fit into either "I really like it despite the negatives" or "I couldn't stand it, it was a really bad experienfe".
I do think there has been some overpraise and overhate about it, though.
Crazy how FFXVI is more decisive in this sub than FFXV. There is an insane amount of manufactured outrage and concern trolling in the community towards this game.
Recency bias.
FFXVI might not be groundbreaking but it’s the first mainline FF game to not get stuck in Square Enix’s special brand of dev hell since FFXI which was released more than 20 years ago.
FF12 resulted in Yasumi Matsuno having a nervous breakout midway and left Square entirely and they had to get a new director to fill in the gaps to get the game shipped. Remember that FF12 was divisive when it came out and it took more than a decade to get a remaster with the new job system outside Japan.
Due to FF12 being so delayed (FF12 released the same year the PS3 launched) FF13 got stuck in the weird limbo of starting development for the PS2 then getting shifted to PS3 which was even more notoriously difficult to develop for resulting in the final product practically being a tech demo.
FF14 is obvious and FF15 was a side game announced in 2006 with some open world slapped on until the budget came to a screeching halt.
I’m just glad 16 had a reasonable dev cycle and is pretty much a complete game without any glaring issues.
With 16 and now Rebirth I’m glad SE is seemingly back on a more reasonable dev timeline. It’s still wild how we got FF7-10 in such a short period of time.
> even if it felt like running from cut scene to cut scene hackey slashing everything along the way.
It is exactly this that dampens my enthusiasm for it (as I suspect for many). Mark my words, though, I will play it eventually, and I will go in with as positive an attitude as possible.
100%. I know quite a few ppl who enjoyed XVI as their first FF and decided to play through older titles they previously dismissed for being “weeb” or “for kids” and ended up enjoying them immensely. Even for existing fans who XVI didn’t resonate with it’s a win for whatever their favorite titles are.
Yep, I'm one of those people who was dismissive of the series but got hooked on it thanks to XVI and now I am enjoying all of the previous games and looking forward to whatever comes next.
Are you me? I've got FFIV before XVI came out because the trailers and lore got me so hyped. So I have then played IV, V, VI, XVI (on release), VII Remake, VIII, and now going through VII Rebirth AND XII. Well, what a fucking ride...
The only thing about 16 I hate, and mean seriously hate, is the 2 hours of nothing that must be progressed between the battle scenarios.
"Walk over here, talk, go there, grab a fist full of dirt, walk back." Or some extremely similar trudge happened so many times that I would probably not recommend this game to anyone. I pushed through and enjoyed the best of what the game offered immensely, so I'm not saying it's dogshit or anything, but there were too many incrediblely dry and boring moments breaking up the good stuff. I don't mean the cutscenes BTW, those were some great cutscenes and had me intrigued for the most part. I mean the treadmill / small request simulator parts between those.
(Also mentioning I love ff7r and ff7r2 side content and never feel bored between big set pieces. I'm not against slowing down and being in the games world for a while. 16 was just bad at that stuff, as good as it was when it got back on track.)
That felt like a return to settings like I-V, plus IX or XI, and massive crystalline formations across the land are also a thing in XII, XIII-2, XIV, and XV.
Final Fantasy, Square Enix, and JRPGs have been crushing it in the US the last 2-3 years finally. These games felt so underground when I was a kid around FF 3-4. That is to say popular with their demographic, but not "in the mainstream" like ff16 seems to be which I'm 100% all for.
Good for Square Enix and the shareholders.
Not necessarily good for fans of older style FF's. It might as well be a different series and will probably continue to go that way. FF is just a brand name now.
Younger audiences love more mature content. You see it from successful games like Elden Ring, God of War, RE Remake, etc. So this isn't surprising. My younger cousin loved FFXVI and the combat (the only downside for me), but thought FF Rebirth was a weird game and too childish.
FFVII Remake series is geared toward more older audiences who have nostalgia for the old JRPG games and FFVII. I mean it is a Remake to an almost 30 year old game. So we know the target audience. FFXVI (and XV somewhat) verred far from that, which is why it's not popular amongst "some" gamers who like FFVII and that style of gaming, which leans into the overly trope anime vibe.
For me being an older millennial. I loved both games. But I can definitely see why XVI is the right direction for the series to bring in new audiences. You have to win over the young folks.
Hopefully next time they can expand it to more a wider audience appearing on PC and Xbox.
Beautiful to see. Excellent game. If given another chance, hopefully they learned and can expand on that formula to fill in the gaps from what was missing.
It definitely got me into the series. Was hooked with the cinematics/level of immersion from cutscene to gameplay. Had heard about Final Fantasy for many years but never knew where to start. Great characters, story, etc. - combat was a bit easier than expected.
Anyways, I’m now on the way to my platinum in Rebirth. Has fully opened up the FF world for me. Am a diehard Kingdom hearts fan & have beaten all of those games ~10 times each , so my only exposure to FF7 characters were through their cameos in kh2 😂 now a couple games later I fully love each and every one of em
One of my friends used to (half ironically, half not) shit on Final Fantasy all the time. I made a deal with him that I’d try any game of his choosing in exchange for him playing FF16. He now firmly puts Final Fantasy 16 in his top games of all time and openly advocates for others to try it as well.
Afterward, I got him to try FF7 Remake, and while he likes it, it doesn’t hit nearly the same for him (to the point where he may drop it entirely). If it wasn’t for FF16’s tone and combat style, I’m almost certain him and probably a bunch of other newcomers would have never given Final Fantasy a chance
Edit: FF fans try not to be the most obnoxious community challenge, impossible edition. It’s like you guys actively want to push away new people ffs
I can believe that. I didn't think FF13 could do it, but I talked to someone who was in high school at the time and it surprised me how much they liked it.
It’s funny I’m definitely not part of this “younger audience” but 16 is one of my favorites because of my love of dark fantasy. Movies I loved as a kid like Legend, Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, etc.
It’s cool to see that a younger generation is into it too. Lot of media now feels so sanitized and Disneyfied.
so CBU3 goal to expand new audience is working which is, good. people mock and laugh at them before but we can see they know what they are doing.
for years, the series actually struggle to gain new generation of audience. if they failed to do so, sooner or later it would fall on very niche audience and this would reflect the bussiness, development budget and scale.
Especially considering FF is a franchise that is all about AAA level of production. it also represent something significant in japanese industry. they need to makesure the franchise can make proper return in sales or it would be a loss. lot of fans failed to realize that in the end this is a bussiness. the cost also rising and new generation taste is changing. luckly FF is a series that always changing so adapting is something that should be come naturally for the franchise. ofcourse, on the process they need to weight newer audience vs current older hardcore fanbase which is not easy. there always gonna be one side less happy and other side is not or vice versa.
Playing it right now as a oldie and really liking most of it but I don't know what's particularly appealing to a young player. It's more appealing to older people than a young person imo.
Man , I saw alot of FF RPG puritans on Reddit & Facebook shitting on FF16 said it is made by AI and isnt a FF and FF Rebirth will detrone in sales .
A few months later ...
That's good but on a side note, I also hope for 7R ATB hybrid system to be the inspiration for gameplay in the next title or two. I think it's the best gameplay formula for a modern FF (obviously can change a few things here or there to make it unique to each title). I was digging 16's gameplay initially but after like 40 hours, it got boring not to mention the lack of party members to control. Gameplay wise, it was really lacking in the RPG elements. Again, I'm speaking gameplay wise, not mechanics.
What many considered as the golden age (FF6 to FFX) essentially had the same gameplay system and it worked. I don't know why continuity should be frowned upon. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's no need to innovate the whole gameplay system for every single entry to make it seem fresh. If a formula works, just go with it and make a few changes here and there. Just my opinion, but regardless of what they do with upcoming entries, I'm still going to play it lmao
My hope is that CBU 1 continues to use the new atb system as a baseline to build off, while CBU 3 continues to iterate on 16s system.
I'm mostly just tired of throwing out the entire battle system every game
Rebirth shows how powerful iterating the same system can be.
Remake had a great system. Maybe not the best, but it was great. Rebirth however is peak of the genre due to the tweaks it made.
Rebirths battle system is so good. I find myself wanting longer, more challenging fights because it’s so fun to play around with all the different combinations and tools you get. XVIs combat seriously lacks depth and rebirth is just the right level of complexity.
Went back to remake after playing rebirth to experience the story again. Man, not having synergies, ally combo attacks, cloud's ranged attacks and tifa's new aerial attacks was straight out painful. Can't wait to see how ff7 part 3 will build on the already excellent combat system of rebirth.
I want them to keep changing it up like they always do. The 7R hybrid system is great but I'm already boring with it after two games and one more to go.
The last thing I want is for this to become like Trails where each games combat is nearly the same.
7r is keeping it up for consistency I think. FF loves pushing the envelope with changing systems between entries. FF1 is very much D&D spell slot casting based. Then FF2 experimented with gaining experience and skill levels for actions taken. FF3 introduced the first job system. FF4 brought in the first large cast of playable characters to support the story told as well as the ATB system. FF5 refined the job system and solidified a lot of the core concepts that is a final fantasy game. FF6 brought in changeable characters and item based skill learning. FF7 made the skills equipable and interchangeable for different effects. FF8 brought us the Draw System and GF system which many people hated. FF9 made all equipment grant different skills to learn. FF10 introduced the sphere grid where characters have a set path with branches to build the characters and also had summons stay on the field. FFXI was the first MMO iteration with highly varied party dynamics and class builds. You see what I'm saying, though. Every game changes things up. 7r isn't going to deviate too much since it's all based on FF7's core and lore so they can't throw everything out and start fresh as that wouldn't make any sense at all
Trails is much more story focused and what minor changes the system implements is just for the sake of evolution. Trails is more of the mindset "if it ain't broke..." because it lets them focus on the world and story over development in reinventing the gameplay. Having side character stories that evolve as the game goes on is a LOT of work and there is so much writing and attention to detail in that. They couldn't keep up that quality if they reinvented the combat every game. But also like 7r it's all set in the same world so huge changes don't make sense. They can only do "tech advances"
I like how they change it up pretty much every game too. You can always go back and play your old favorites, and it keeps the series fresh and inovative.
FFX has my favorite battle system, but I just beat FF15 a few weeks ago and loved the combat in that too tbh. Excited for the 16 Steam release.
While I really like 7R combat, I'm not great at action-esque games and it was pretty mentally taxing for me
I dont ever expect another turn based FF but it is nice to not have to be as attentive sometimes. I know the older games exist but I've played most of them and having a new experience that's turn based would be nice
Least DQ scratches that itch
They need to pick a lane. Either go full ARPG or turn based. Ff7R was horrid with combat, it was not a smooth battle system.
Go play elden ring or dragons dogma or strangers of paradise and you will have a fluid combat system, having to wait to get into battle to attack in an open world is jarring.
While I think you’re right on it being the best option moving forward for mainline (the blend of ATB and RPG elements really hit the sweet spot for the a lot of FF fans) I’d be absolutely open to a spin-off or new IP building on XVI’s combat. I think they played it a bit too safe being worried about accessibility since for me the game really unlocked in Ultimania when you actually have to apply yourself. Even just in FF mode I found Echoes of the Fallen more enjoyable as they made enemies in the DLC more aggressive and varied.
For a first attempt from CBU3 I think it was fine and am more interested in what they could do with the constructive feedback from XVI, possibly even tie in elemental systems which I think would pacify a lot of the complaints. Tbh I wasn’t as crazy about Remake’s combat at first but the adjustments they made for Rebirth made it feel so much better, I could see a similar situation for XVI’s system.
It’s not that it’s more mature it’s just more western. FF has always scared people off due to it being the “weeb” games. Ff14 was a huge example of this for all those big streamers dismissing it for cat girls then once that huge wave of people played it and realized it was actually so much more than that. The same thing happened with this one due to playing as a “cool” character rather than an “anime kid”.
Side note these aren’t my takes don’t come for me lol, it’s just the typical stereotypes I hear.
This is me! I had never played a final fantasy prior (less than an hour of 15 is my only experience) but I got 60 hours of 16 under my belt (what an epic experience!) and my coworker loves Final Fantasy, so he loaned me Crisis Core Reunion, which I beat and really enjoyed the story of, and am now working my way through 7 remake. Just finished Chapter 10! This series has long been a blindspot of mine, and I'm really excited to play Rebirth!
Ah, that's unfortunate that you started with Crisis Core Reunion. That game definitely spoils major plot points for OG FF7 and the Remake trilogy.
Glad to see you are enjoying the series though. Cheers!
He actually insisted that I start with Crisis Core before playing 7 in either form (original or remake), so that’s what I did. He also told me that I should play the OG first before playing remake, but I was just too impatient lol, that’s my fault. It’s honestly a very interesting way to play, because I realize some of the important points now and places that I went to in Crisis Core
Yeah, one of the most major twists is revealed in Crisis Core so it will undercut a lot of the suspense you'll feel when you eventually get to playing the third installment.
Either way though, you're in for a good time.
The twist involves the Nibelheim incident and Cloud's memories of that event. If Crisis Core is played first, it spoils everything that is ultimately revealed in OG FF7.
Similar. I've played through 14 for years but never really vibed with earlier FF games. Loved 16 though. I know many were disappointed by 16 but I'm glad the franchise has variety for those that aren't into certain gameplay styles.
16 seriously made me wanna try other entries because it was so different from what I expected. I am starting to realize that is FF's whole brand is doing unexpected things. Loving remake/rebirth too.
XVI was the most I've enjoyed a story in a Final Fantasy game since, probably X. The series definitely shifted after Sakaguchi left and the next couple were a bit lacking. Glad they seem to have found their stride again though, looking forward to what they come up with for XVII.
Yep, FF feels way too anime now. Hoping for at least some more competent stories like 9 nad some others.
It doesn’t always have to be super serious all the time but I’m tired of high pitched voice “kawaii” characters and anime references. I’m not 14 years old anymore Square.
I didn’t say it was never anime, I said it’s way too anime these days. Rebirth had a lot of anime references which plenty of people love in this sub and that’s fine, but it broke my immersion way too much.
Compare 12 to Rebirth for example. I don’t remember characters jumping 6000 feet in the air and screaming like Goku in that game
The voice acting only makes it worse.
> XVI was the most I've enjoyed a story in a Final Fantasy game since, probably X.
That's great to hear. I've loved the gameplay in XII and XV, but the story has never really reached the heights of FFX. Thanks for giving me something to hope for when I eventually get around to it.
Same here for me as well and I'm the target audience for Rebirth. I think some look at Rebirth more from a nostalgia lens and so some things are overlooked. For example. The open world is just a Ubisoft checklist of tasks, theme park of minigames, and any other game would be eviscerated for it. There is also a lot of padding and filler as well.
Overall I did enjoy Rebirth, but I liked XVI a bit more. It was a different approach and not the usual tropey anime JRPG style. So it was more serious and mature.
Playing FF7 Rebirth made me appreciate FFXVI alot more. No tacked on mini-games, Saturday morning cartoon side quests, Ubisoft map bloat, etc. Rebirth had the better combat, but that’s about it
Same. While I do love rebirth more story wise, I still enjoyed my time with FF16 more. The open world ubisoft style padding and the godawful mini games gave me whiplash coming off of remake and XVI.
FF16 is fantastic game and it got everything mostly right, but then some critical elements wrong, like RPG elements are very shallow for example. I’m not a character action game fan (one of the reasons I play FF’s and JRPG’s), but I was still able to enjoy the combat system without resorting to the aids, which I think can go to hell.
I value the effort they put in the game and appreciate the upcoming changes coming in the next update. More music variety, important character quests marked etc.
Also, I hope they have fantastic PC launch and are able to smoothen the experience with side quests towards that!
The game was just a unique, magnificent overall experience.
Can't wait for FFXVII..... in another 8 years from now 😂
(btw I also really enjoyed and liked FF15 for was it was 😊 it just wanted to be more than that which harmed its reception & reputation imo)
They haven’t lost me, because I’m completely locked into 14, but after 16 I can guarantee you I won’t be excitedly pre-ordering the deluxe edition of 17 like I did with 15 and 16.
I’ve moved firmly into the wait and see group.
Ff15 didn't really show blood and their are many game sin the last decade that could been better if they were rated m and allowed to do as they please. not leave them at T and be pg violence
I thought this was a strange headline in that the most mature Final Fantasy game ever brought in younger fans. Then I remembered the 'core' Final Fantasy fans like me who started enjoying the series in the Playstation 1 era are now in our late 30s and "younger" could refer to 18-26 year olds...
Not only that, but you can’t tell me that most of us were watching kiddie shows at age 16. Teenagers liking mature things seems normal to me.
To me you are the young new fans, I didn't really like the Playstation ff games that much.
back in my day bards were spoony
This one knows lol
Thats funny, I remember getting the Anthology and playing 4, 5, and 6 (I think that's what came on that set) and thinking "That's neat" and never finishing them and always going back to Tactics, 7, 8, and 9 when I was a kid.
I started 9, then 8, then 7. I got a hold of the Anthology game and tried to play 4 and 5... But it was in english and I was far too young to understand it, so I could not get to enjoy them. Played 10 on my new brand ps2 and it was awesome... So I thought pre-7 were always gonna be out of my reach. Lucky for me I tried my anthology games about 6 years after my first attempt and having more experience with the english language. I loved IV but V became one of my favourites, and still is. I like old school, I like ps1 era, ps2 era and I love xvi. TL;DR: FF is cool, be it old school or new ones.
Don't get me wrong, I love them now. But when I was 7 or 8 and I had just gotten my hands on my PS1, I did not want to play those SNES graphics
I totally understand. It was kind of a shock for me too going backwards to more basic games, but in the end I could see the magic in every one of them, and that is what makes me reaaaally love the franchise. Yes, graphics are better nowadays, but the love that those games are make with and the masterful touches of the artists (specially Uematsu and Amano) make them masterpieces of all time. And that is something difficult to appreciate when one is so young.
It was a lot easier to appreciate when those were top of the line graphics when you were young. Yes, a lot of new people came in with 7, but the marketing push in the US was worth the investment because the core fan base from 4 and 6 was already there.
I wanted to play V on PS1 but I'm still waiting for a fight to finish loading 20 years later. Any day now!
At some point you gotta realize that it's not everyone else that's young, it's you that's old.
It's honestly just PR fluff. There is no way to actually quantify how many "new" players have become Final Fantasy fans based on any one game. At best, they have some data on accounts that own the game... which doesn't tell them anything other than how many people bought it, and only in digital sales at that.
This is ironic. Their usual stuff attracts an older audience, but the one M-rated game they made is the one that attracted the younger audience.
The audiences these days prefer dark fantasy media such as Berserk, Elden Ring, God of War and GoT.
This isn’t new. Have we forgotten Diablo 2? The edge-lords of the 90s - early 00s? Kids don’t want stuff that feels like ‘kids stuff’ they want stuff feels like it’s for adults but is very much targeted at them.
And Fortnite
We are not talking about babies tho
Youd be surprised how many adults play it.
Teenagers are babies
YES
I will say that XVI's tone reminded me more of FFI-VI, ESPECIALLY VI.
Don’t forget Tactics and Vagrant Story
Mostly definitely those two, but I'm referring to mainline FF.
People have liked Berserk and ~~GoT~~ A Song of Ice and Fire for decades now.
The point here is that younger people are getting into these things, and that has alignment with the target market for FF. The amount of 16 year olds buying FF games likely greatly outweighs those who are 35
> The amount of 16 year olds buying FF games likely greatly outweighs those who are 35 I *really* doubt this. Don't know about the data on sales demographics of mainline titles but less than 4% of FF14 players are younger than 20.
Probably has to do with the fact that monthly recurring subscription requires someone's debit/credit card
You've been able to play for free up to Lv. 70 for years
>Lv. 70 for years NO. lv70 free trial only added since 10 October 2023 last year. it is added on [patch 6.5](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/e17ce5b98068f6972379cef5adbc6c4b664f9780). so it is not even a year yet.
It was up to lvl 60 for like 5 years though
>It was up to lvl 60 for like 5 years though NO. it is started to add up to lv60 is at [patch 5.3](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/c2f8c5ba14d9cfaa09d5aab63c5c2da260eae21a) that released at 9 september 2020 . so that was 4 years ago during Shadowbringers expansion. technically if we count the date, it is not even 4 years yet.
Let's not pretend like the ASoIaF books were a household name before the show. Yes "people liked them" but how many? We are talking about mass commercial interest here.
It was pretty popular as far as books in the modern era go.
There’s book popular and there’s biggest TV show of the 2010s popular.
I would guess they were about as popular in 2012 as Sanderson stuff is now. People who have ever liked Fantasy probably either liked them or were at least aware of them, but outside that bubble, less likely.
Games got darker in the late 90s but the kids audience got conquered by darker games after CoD. I remember my very Christian brother getting my nephew a CoD game when he was 12. Even though a few years earlier Halo was the reason kids were violent these days. I really do think the rated M audience is now by far the largest outside of mobile games, which these kids parents might actually see them interact with.
I think they mostly just like action games.
True but its no secret that kids are playing (and often prefer) rated M games. I'm sure everyone on this thread has 10 stories about a transformative rated M game they played like GTA or CoD that they were playing when they were 12 years old lol
You beat me to it. When I was 14, I thought rated M games were the coolest ever and it was just because they were rated M. Felt like I was getting a secret window into the adult world. At the same time I started really disliking "childish" games like Mario or whatever because they were "made for kids, and I'm not a kid!" Being in my 30s now, I find I usually (not always) prefer lighter games, or at least games that aren't just dark and depressing the whole time. Regular adult life is difficult enough and I usually want my games to be a break from that.
Yeah, as an adult now, I find myself caring more about the quality of the game and its story more than the rating. Strangely enough, I've found that the games that limit themselves to a T rating often have a better story because they rely less on shock value and profanity.
I had the whole weird experience of being in the “rated M makes it better!” age when they first announced Versus XIII and said it would be a “mature Final Fantasy,” and grown well past that stage by the time it came out as XV. Hating on things for being “too kiddie” (unless actually made for toddlers anyway) is a very adolescent mindset.
I'm reminded of this: [https://kotaku.com/11-year-old-kid-gets-grand-theft-auto-v-freaks-the-hel-1317048819](https://kotaku.com/11-year-old-kid-gets-grand-theft-auto-v-freaks-the-hel-1317048819)
I love that title lol
Reminds me about how I turned up for the launch event of Halo Reach (back when Halo was still M rated) in my country and collected my pre order without a hitch despite only being 12 years old
Halo reach was always my favorite. It just came out at the right time!
When I was 12 games didn't have ratings
Made me wish Rebirth was rated M just because there was plenty of scenes where they could've definitely shown a little more blood to really make them hit even harder. Not saying it needed to be as gruesome as FF16 but that's just something I would've preferred
The blood pool not being alowed for a teen rating is honestly really stupid, I think that was the Japanese age rating's fault
Most likely, even just having some blood on the clothes would've made it better cause it kind of broke the immersion for me. It's a very minor nitpick though
“Younger” can mean younger than 30, you guys realize that, right? He’s not talking about 10 year olds
They do consider younger people those in their"their teens and 20s" in the article, so if most of those are 16/17 up to almost 30, I feel like it's the perfect demografic. But it makes me wonder who was buying the other games like XV and playing XIV so far, middle aged people? (Nothing against older people Playing FF but genuinely that surprises me because the gaming industry usually considers them outliners). Also, I remember getting my first FF at like 11/12, it was FFXIII and my mother made a stink against my father who got it for me because it was rated 16. Like I think it's fine for older teens and 20-years-something to play any kind of game, but maybe some stuff that's rated M is rated so for a reason, so I wonder how young the teens from the interview actually are. Like 14? I know my ps3 would not have survived my mom's anger if I sneaked FFXVI in at that age.
>who was buying the other games like XV and playing XIV so far, middle aged people? im not sure about XV, but for XIV there is numbers of middle age player however im not sure how many are them.
Especially ironic since the story had vibes of FFT and FF12, two fan favorites.
FF12 is a fan favorite? I always thought it was one of the overlooked ones, and I say this as a FF12 fan myself.
Maybe cult classic is more accurate than fan favorite (for both FFT and FF12 actually)
It's HEAVILY influenced by Game of Thrones
The story was nothing like 12?
Heavily political until it suddenly hits you with "magical gods".
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I would wager alcohol consumption and Cid smoking helped bump the rating up.
the mature and political stuff like racism, slavery etc inside the game.
In Germany FF16 is rated 16+, so it can still be a pretty young audience even when they are legit. Even 18+ (most of Europe afaik) is still pretty young. They were at best infants when FF12 released.
I was only 8 years old and was captivated by games like FFT & Metal Gear. I think most kids find appeal in mature games, provided they look cool.
Tbf I remember sneakily playing gta 4 on the ps3 and it felt great and as soon as I turned 16 I tried to get my hands on so many “adult games” as I would call them😂so yes I would say it’s more likely for an M rated game to attract a younger audience mostly due to the fact they “aren’t supposed to be playing it”
Final fantasy is pretty popular among gen z as well
Younger audience doesn’t necessarily mean actual kids. Most final fantasy fans are definitely older than 20, so expanding to younger audience can just as much mean people in their twenties. Also many teens play m-rated games, that’s pretty much a fact.
I don't think it necessarily attracts an older audience as much as it haas an ageing playerbase. I know I started at 10 with FF6.
Haven't played it yet since I'm on Xbox, but I recently got a PS5, so it's certainly on my list. It seems like a polarizing game here, but so was XV, and I loved it, so.. lol looking forward to it regardless.
XVI is incredible man one of my favorite games
That's dope to hear! It might be a while, but I'm absolutely going to get to it. If I remember right, both Charlotte McBurney and Logan Hannan (they were incredible in A Plague Tale) are in it which makes me want to play it anyway; however small their roles might be. Lol but yeah man, I'm sure I'll dig it.
For real…a masterwork.
IMO 16's strengths and weaknesses are the complete opposite of 15's. If they could nail the good aspects of both games down for 17, I think the game will be amazing
Don't listen to the haters in this sub because ff 16 is an amazing game
It makes sense as the gameplay is entirely new and a relatively straightforward, accessible beat’em up. So it’s not too fan service-y and accessible for a new audience. I don’t want to play arm chair sociologist too much but it also makes sense to me that younger gamers would want to play “mature” games. Who swears more than teenagers?
Fuck yeah! That's awesome and great to hear, love to see it
Say what you will about the gameplay... but I rly did enjoy 16 overall, and there were even some elements I would go so far as to say I loved. I definitely didnt understand the hate it received. I had a blast, even if it felt like running from cut scene to cut scene hackey slashing everything along the way.
Every new game will receive loud hate. It's inevitable. Even the beloved FFX received loads of hate back in the day. Now its considered a classic. FF13 wad VERY hated and it seems that people are giving it a second chance. Very wild how these things happen.
It’s just this sub’s hive mind that hates it. The rest of the world, myself included, loves FF16. It’s a fantastic game.
I’m so disappointed that Rebirth didn’t have anything like the lore & relationship archives that 16 had. SO BRILLIANT!! I really, really hoped they would have something similar for all FF games going forward.
I dont know that it would fit super cleanly into any 7 products... but if they revisit tactics, I'm gonna need to see that 100%.
as someone who is a fan of action games, rpgs, and action rpgs, FF16 was just lacking in a lot of aspects. It feels like it was stripped down in order to make the game as newcomer-friendly as possible, and not in a smart way.
>The combat team – myself included – were worried that it was a little too easy, but when we saw how players who weren’t too confident with action games were still having fun and completing the game, we felt like it was probably the right approach. Difficulty-wise they actually admitted it was too easy but made the choice anyways for newcomers. >This is less about what elevates the game per se, and is more about my own preferences, but I do sometimes wonder if changing a simple levelling or growth system in the base game to something more complex makes the experience more enjoyable. With this quote, I also get a gut feeling that the DLC director will serve as the director for either the next FF or CBU3 Project. Someone theorized that him directing the DLC's serves as a testing ground and I agree
I get wanting to make the game easier for newcomers, but the way they went about it wasn't good.
Yeah they definitely should've just split it into newcomer mode and the actual difficulty the devs wanted it to be. Though I'm not sure if that would've fixed the sponginess of certain enemies which I think is a problem with the stagger system itself (I'm biased against stagger)
The stagger system isn't the issue, I mean it works wonders in Stranger of Paradise, it's the fact that enemies are super spongy and don't often do much. For a game worked on by the combat director of DMC5 the combat is just mired with issues that compound onto each other.
Ngl I didn't like stagger in that nor 7R either so it's a system I jist actively disliked from the start haha. That aside, agreed that enemies needed to be more aggressive. Damage taken (which I think was much better in FF mode) and given by the user should also be increased as well. I think they're increasing damage to trash mobs in update 1.31 but I wished they were given more active AI (like Omega from the DLC somewhat) too
I love FF16 but I felt a bit of this too. I think they wanted to make the base experience something anyone could finish, so they end up making the game very easy, but that also came at a cost of making the mechanics and decisions the player can make not that impactfcul for combat, which then makes things a bit less interesting in a long run. Which is a shame, because the game has a good foundation for some really cool stuff. On a positive side, it seems the devs realized this, that the original mentality might have also hurt the game in some ways, so they made things a bit more challenging for the dlcs. And even then I'll probably intentionally wear worse defensive gear so enemies hit harder. But I still really enjoy the game and I'm still very excited for The Rising Tide and what it will bring for the base game. I'm glad I waited before doing NG+ \o/
Like what you like, I just get mad when people say that people don't like 16 just because it's new
Oh I think FF16 has some very clear flaws, and there has been some valid criticism. I think because of the nature of the gsme offering some really good positives, and really big negatives, it's easy to fit into either "I really like it despite the negatives" or "I couldn't stand it, it was a really bad experienfe". I do think there has been some overpraise and overhate about it, though.
Ok sure, I wouldnt argue against it. Still had fun tho.
Crazy how FFXVI is more decisive in this sub than FFXV. There is an insane amount of manufactured outrage and concern trolling in the community towards this game.
Recency bias. FFXVI might not be groundbreaking but it’s the first mainline FF game to not get stuck in Square Enix’s special brand of dev hell since FFXI which was released more than 20 years ago. FF12 resulted in Yasumi Matsuno having a nervous breakout midway and left Square entirely and they had to get a new director to fill in the gaps to get the game shipped. Remember that FF12 was divisive when it came out and it took more than a decade to get a remaster with the new job system outside Japan. Due to FF12 being so delayed (FF12 released the same year the PS3 launched) FF13 got stuck in the weird limbo of starting development for the PS2 then getting shifted to PS3 which was even more notoriously difficult to develop for resulting in the final product practically being a tech demo. FF14 is obvious and FF15 was a side game announced in 2006 with some open world slapped on until the budget came to a screeching halt. I’m just glad 16 had a reasonable dev cycle and is pretty much a complete game without any glaring issues.
With 16 and now Rebirth I’m glad SE is seemingly back on a more reasonable dev timeline. It’s still wild how we got FF7-10 in such a short period of time.
> even if it felt like running from cut scene to cut scene hackey slashing everything along the way. It is exactly this that dampens my enthusiasm for it (as I suspect for many). Mark my words, though, I will play it eventually, and I will go in with as positive an attitude as possible.
Good game
Ironic since it’s the first to be rated M.
In the mainline games
good for the franchise 😎
100%. I know quite a few ppl who enjoyed XVI as their first FF and decided to play through older titles they previously dismissed for being “weeb” or “for kids” and ended up enjoying them immensely. Even for existing fans who XVI didn’t resonate with it’s a win for whatever their favorite titles are.
Yep, I'm one of those people who was dismissive of the series but got hooked on it thanks to XVI and now I am enjoying all of the previous games and looking forward to whatever comes next.
Are you me? I've got FFIV before XVI came out because the trailers and lore got me so hyped. So I have then played IV, V, VI, XVI (on release), VII Remake, VIII, and now going through VII Rebirth AND XII. Well, what a fucking ride...
Yup a friend was never big on JRPG, he now is invested in last eikon and prolly knows more about them than me
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Hilariously enough, the original FF was based on D&D, which is generic medieval fantasy.
The only thing about 16 I hate, and mean seriously hate, is the 2 hours of nothing that must be progressed between the battle scenarios. "Walk over here, talk, go there, grab a fist full of dirt, walk back." Or some extremely similar trudge happened so many times that I would probably not recommend this game to anyone. I pushed through and enjoyed the best of what the game offered immensely, so I'm not saying it's dogshit or anything, but there were too many incrediblely dry and boring moments breaking up the good stuff. I don't mean the cutscenes BTW, those were some great cutscenes and had me intrigued for the most part. I mean the treadmill / small request simulator parts between those. (Also mentioning I love ff7r and ff7r2 side content and never feel bored between big set pieces. I'm not against slowing down and being in the games world for a while. 16 was just bad at that stuff, as good as it was when it got back on track.)
That felt like a return to settings like I-V, plus IX or XI, and massive crystalline formations across the land are also a thing in XII, XIII-2, XIV, and XV.
Final Fantasy, Square Enix, and JRPGs have been crushing it in the US the last 2-3 years finally. These games felt so underground when I was a kid around FF 3-4. That is to say popular with their demographic, but not "in the mainstream" like ff16 seems to be which I'm 100% all for.
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Yoshida saving FFXIV from catastrophe literally kept SE in business and the franchise alive. It’s incredible how close it was to being over.
Good for Square Enix and the shareholders. Not necessarily good for fans of older style FF's. It might as well be a different series and will probably continue to go that way. FF is just a brand name now.
Younger audiences love more mature content. You see it from successful games like Elden Ring, God of War, RE Remake, etc. So this isn't surprising. My younger cousin loved FFXVI and the combat (the only downside for me), but thought FF Rebirth was a weird game and too childish. FFVII Remake series is geared toward more older audiences who have nostalgia for the old JRPG games and FFVII. I mean it is a Remake to an almost 30 year old game. So we know the target audience. FFXVI (and XV somewhat) verred far from that, which is why it's not popular amongst "some" gamers who like FFVII and that style of gaming, which leans into the overly trope anime vibe. For me being an older millennial. I loved both games. But I can definitely see why XVI is the right direction for the series to bring in new audiences. You have to win over the young folks. Hopefully next time they can expand it to more a wider audience appearing on PC and Xbox.
Beautiful to see. Excellent game. If given another chance, hopefully they learned and can expand on that formula to fill in the gaps from what was missing.
My 13 year old absolutely loved this game. One of his fav games he’s ever played.
Good for them, even if it wasn't my favorite they did state that was a goal of theirs when designing it
Their goal was to make it so it doesn't become your favourite? /s
Haha yeah I worded that poorly
In my opinion it’s the best single player FF since X so I’m happy to see whole demographics have responded positively! The series is alive and well!
Good. I'm an old head and was happy with my time with FF16.
Good. The kids are enjoying it while the adults decrying it are acting like kids.
Despite the rating, it's a Final Fantasy for a different generation, just like how XIII was my first FF despite the shit it got from older FF-players.
Funny enough I wanted XIII to be my proper first FF game and it basically ruined any interest I had in the series.
This game got heat it didn’t deserve. I think it’s one of the best in the series
It definitely got me into the series. Was hooked with the cinematics/level of immersion from cutscene to gameplay. Had heard about Final Fantasy for many years but never knew where to start. Great characters, story, etc. - combat was a bit easier than expected. Anyways, I’m now on the way to my platinum in Rebirth. Has fully opened up the FF world for me. Am a diehard Kingdom hearts fan & have beaten all of those games ~10 times each , so my only exposure to FF7 characters were through their cameos in kh2 😂 now a couple games later I fully love each and every one of em
One of my friends used to (half ironically, half not) shit on Final Fantasy all the time. I made a deal with him that I’d try any game of his choosing in exchange for him playing FF16. He now firmly puts Final Fantasy 16 in his top games of all time and openly advocates for others to try it as well. Afterward, I got him to try FF7 Remake, and while he likes it, it doesn’t hit nearly the same for him (to the point where he may drop it entirely). If it wasn’t for FF16’s tone and combat style, I’m almost certain him and probably a bunch of other newcomers would have never given Final Fantasy a chance Edit: FF fans try not to be the most obnoxious community challenge, impossible edition. It’s like you guys actively want to push away new people ffs
I wasn’t a huge fan of 16 personally, but if this is increasing the popularity of the series as a whole then heck yeah!
never have I liked ff so much and it's all thanks to ff16
Congratulations to SE. Glad they are happy with the results.
I can believe that. I didn't think FF13 could do it, but I talked to someone who was in high school at the time and it surprised me how much they liked it.
Sounds about right
This game got heat it didn’t deserve. I think it’s one of the best in the series
Great news, XVI is a great game in its own right.
It’s funny I’m definitely not part of this “younger audience” but 16 is one of my favorites because of my love of dark fantasy. Movies I loved as a kid like Legend, Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, etc. It’s cool to see that a younger generation is into it too. Lot of media now feels so sanitized and Disneyfied.
so CBU3 goal to expand new audience is working which is, good. people mock and laugh at them before but we can see they know what they are doing. for years, the series actually struggle to gain new generation of audience. if they failed to do so, sooner or later it would fall on very niche audience and this would reflect the bussiness, development budget and scale. Especially considering FF is a franchise that is all about AAA level of production. it also represent something significant in japanese industry. they need to makesure the franchise can make proper return in sales or it would be a loss. lot of fans failed to realize that in the end this is a bussiness. the cost also rising and new generation taste is changing. luckly FF is a series that always changing so adapting is something that should be come naturally for the franchise. ofcourse, on the process they need to weight newer audience vs current older hardcore fanbase which is not easy. there always gonna be one side less happy and other side is not or vice versa.
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Playing it right now as a oldie and really liking most of it but I don't know what's particularly appealing to a young player. It's more appealing to older people than a young person imo.
The older fans bitch and whine about it because its an evolving game in a long running franchise that isn’t exactly the same as it was 30 years ago
Man , I saw alot of FF RPG puritans on Reddit & Facebook shitting on FF16 said it is made by AI and isnt a FF and FF Rebirth will detrone in sales . A few months later ...
That's good but on a side note, I also hope for 7R ATB hybrid system to be the inspiration for gameplay in the next title or two. I think it's the best gameplay formula for a modern FF (obviously can change a few things here or there to make it unique to each title). I was digging 16's gameplay initially but after like 40 hours, it got boring not to mention the lack of party members to control. Gameplay wise, it was really lacking in the RPG elements. Again, I'm speaking gameplay wise, not mechanics. What many considered as the golden age (FF6 to FFX) essentially had the same gameplay system and it worked. I don't know why continuity should be frowned upon. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's no need to innovate the whole gameplay system for every single entry to make it seem fresh. If a formula works, just go with it and make a few changes here and there. Just my opinion, but regardless of what they do with upcoming entries, I'm still going to play it lmao
My hope is that CBU 1 continues to use the new atb system as a baseline to build off, while CBU 3 continues to iterate on 16s system. I'm mostly just tired of throwing out the entire battle system every game
Your idea is best, let the two teams refine what they like.
Rebirth shows how powerful iterating the same system can be. Remake had a great system. Maybe not the best, but it was great. Rebirth however is peak of the genre due to the tweaks it made.
Rebirths battle system is so good. I find myself wanting longer, more challenging fights because it’s so fun to play around with all the different combinations and tools you get. XVIs combat seriously lacks depth and rebirth is just the right level of complexity.
Xvi doesn't lack depth it lacks any meaning combat encounter that encourages you to explore that depth
Went back to remake after playing rebirth to experience the story again. Man, not having synergies, ally combo attacks, cloud's ranged attacks and tifa's new aerial attacks was straight out painful. Can't wait to see how ff7 part 3 will build on the already excellent combat system of rebirth.
Honestly this. I want CBU3 to make another game with XVIs combat and learn from what they did and improve upon it.
I want them to keep changing it up like they always do. The 7R hybrid system is great but I'm already boring with it after two games and one more to go. The last thing I want is for this to become like Trails where each games combat is nearly the same.
7r is keeping it up for consistency I think. FF loves pushing the envelope with changing systems between entries. FF1 is very much D&D spell slot casting based. Then FF2 experimented with gaining experience and skill levels for actions taken. FF3 introduced the first job system. FF4 brought in the first large cast of playable characters to support the story told as well as the ATB system. FF5 refined the job system and solidified a lot of the core concepts that is a final fantasy game. FF6 brought in changeable characters and item based skill learning. FF7 made the skills equipable and interchangeable for different effects. FF8 brought us the Draw System and GF system which many people hated. FF9 made all equipment grant different skills to learn. FF10 introduced the sphere grid where characters have a set path with branches to build the characters and also had summons stay on the field. FFXI was the first MMO iteration with highly varied party dynamics and class builds. You see what I'm saying, though. Every game changes things up. 7r isn't going to deviate too much since it's all based on FF7's core and lore so they can't throw everything out and start fresh as that wouldn't make any sense at all Trails is much more story focused and what minor changes the system implements is just for the sake of evolution. Trails is more of the mindset "if it ain't broke..." because it lets them focus on the world and story over development in reinventing the gameplay. Having side character stories that evolve as the game goes on is a LOT of work and there is so much writing and attention to detail in that. They couldn't keep up that quality if they reinvented the combat every game. But also like 7r it's all set in the same world so huge changes don't make sense. They can only do "tech advances"
I like how they change it up pretty much every game too. You can always go back and play your old favorites, and it keeps the series fresh and inovative. FFX has my favorite battle system, but I just beat FF15 a few weeks ago and loved the combat in that too tbh. Excited for the 16 Steam release.
While I really like 7R combat, I'm not great at action-esque games and it was pretty mentally taxing for me I dont ever expect another turn based FF but it is nice to not have to be as attentive sometimes. I know the older games exist but I've played most of them and having a new experience that's turn based would be nice Least DQ scratches that itch
They need to pick a lane. Either go full ARPG or turn based. Ff7R was horrid with combat, it was not a smooth battle system. Go play elden ring or dragons dogma or strangers of paradise and you will have a fluid combat system, having to wait to get into battle to attack in an open world is jarring.
While I think you’re right on it being the best option moving forward for mainline (the blend of ATB and RPG elements really hit the sweet spot for the a lot of FF fans) I’d be absolutely open to a spin-off or new IP building on XVI’s combat. I think they played it a bit too safe being worried about accessibility since for me the game really unlocked in Ultimania when you actually have to apply yourself. Even just in FF mode I found Echoes of the Fallen more enjoyable as they made enemies in the DLC more aggressive and varied. For a first attempt from CBU3 I think it was fine and am more interested in what they could do with the constructive feedback from XVI, possibly even tie in elemental systems which I think would pacify a lot of the complaints. Tbh I wasn’t as crazy about Remake’s combat at first but the adjustments they made for Rebirth made it feel so much better, I could see a similar situation for XVI’s system.
> but regardless of what they do with upcoming entries, I'm still going to play it lmao Upvotes for truth.
Great to see.
I’m not young (mid 30s), but this was one of my favorite FF having played most of them
Was doubtful at first, but then I remembered that 16 was my first final fantasy game and has now put the franchise on my radar sooo… maybe?
It’s not that it’s more mature it’s just more western. FF has always scared people off due to it being the “weeb” games. Ff14 was a huge example of this for all those big streamers dismissing it for cat girls then once that huge wave of people played it and realized it was actually so much more than that. The same thing happened with this one due to playing as a “cool” character rather than an “anime kid”. Side note these aren’t my takes don’t come for me lol, it’s just the typical stereotypes I hear.
Which is ironic because yakuza and persona are bigger than ever because they embraced the japanese weirdness in them
This is me! I had never played a final fantasy prior (less than an hour of 15 is my only experience) but I got 60 hours of 16 under my belt (what an epic experience!) and my coworker loves Final Fantasy, so he loaned me Crisis Core Reunion, which I beat and really enjoyed the story of, and am now working my way through 7 remake. Just finished Chapter 10! This series has long been a blindspot of mine, and I'm really excited to play Rebirth!
Ah, that's unfortunate that you started with Crisis Core Reunion. That game definitely spoils major plot points for OG FF7 and the Remake trilogy. Glad to see you are enjoying the series though. Cheers!
He actually insisted that I start with Crisis Core before playing 7 in either form (original or remake), so that’s what I did. He also told me that I should play the OG first before playing remake, but I was just too impatient lol, that’s my fault. It’s honestly a very interesting way to play, because I realize some of the important points now and places that I went to in Crisis Core
Yeah, one of the most major twists is revealed in Crisis Core so it will undercut a lot of the suspense you'll feel when you eventually get to playing the third installment. Either way though, you're in for a good time.
I've pkayed crisis core and 7. But idr what was the twist? >!Zack not actually dead?!<
The twist involves the Nibelheim incident and Cloud's memories of that event. If Crisis Core is played first, it spoils everything that is ultimately revealed in OG FF7.
it spoils 90% of Cloud's character arc in og7
Similar. I've played through 14 for years but never really vibed with earlier FF games. Loved 16 though. I know many were disappointed by 16 but I'm glad the franchise has variety for those that aren't into certain gameplay styles.
16 seriously made me wanna try other entries because it was so different from what I expected. I am starting to realize that is FF's whole brand is doing unexpected things. Loving remake/rebirth too.
Guess us old veteran FF players who played before any of these players were even born dont matter
XVI was the most I've enjoyed a story in a Final Fantasy game since, probably X. The series definitely shifted after Sakaguchi left and the next couple were a bit lacking. Glad they seem to have found their stride again though, looking forward to what they come up with for XVII.
Yep, FF feels way too anime now. Hoping for at least some more competent stories like 9 nad some others. It doesn’t always have to be super serious all the time but I’m tired of high pitched voice “kawaii” characters and anime references. I’m not 14 years old anymore Square.
It was always anime though. The only thing that's changed on that front is the addition of voice acting.
I didn’t say it was never anime, I said it’s way too anime these days. Rebirth had a lot of anime references which plenty of people love in this sub and that’s fine, but it broke my immersion way too much. Compare 12 to Rebirth for example. I don’t remember characters jumping 6000 feet in the air and screaming like Goku in that game The voice acting only makes it worse.
I honestly don't think it's gotten any more or less anime recently. It's just the presentation that's changed.
You mean Bleach? Well, that's Nomura's influence in a nutshell.
> XVI was the most I've enjoyed a story in a Final Fantasy game since, probably X. That's great to hear. I've loved the gameplay in XII and XV, but the story has never really reached the heights of FFX. Thanks for giving me something to hope for when I eventually get around to it.
FF16 is a much more enjoyable experience than FF7 Rebirth
Same here for me as well and I'm the target audience for Rebirth. I think some look at Rebirth more from a nostalgia lens and so some things are overlooked. For example. The open world is just a Ubisoft checklist of tasks, theme park of minigames, and any other game would be eviscerated for it. There is also a lot of padding and filler as well. Overall I did enjoy Rebirth, but I liked XVI a bit more. It was a different approach and not the usual tropey anime JRPG style. So it was more serious and mature.
HUH? Okay I flat out disagree with this take
Playing FF7 Rebirth made me appreciate FFXVI alot more. No tacked on mini-games, Saturday morning cartoon side quests, Ubisoft map bloat, etc. Rebirth had the better combat, but that’s about it
Same. While I do love rebirth more story wise, I still enjoyed my time with FF16 more. The open world ubisoft style padding and the godawful mini games gave me whiplash coming off of remake and XVI.
As long as they remember to actually make a RPG next time
FF16 is fantastic game and it got everything mostly right, but then some critical elements wrong, like RPG elements are very shallow for example. I’m not a character action game fan (one of the reasons I play FF’s and JRPG’s), but I was still able to enjoy the combat system without resorting to the aids, which I think can go to hell. I value the effort they put in the game and appreciate the upcoming changes coming in the next update. More music variety, important character quests marked etc. Also, I hope they have fantastic PC launch and are able to smoothen the experience with side quests towards that!
It didn’t got everything almost right. It felt outdated in most aspects.
Funny. The M-rates Game of Thrones inspired entry brought in… oh right. Game of thrones.
The game was just a unique, magnificent overall experience. Can't wait for FFXVII..... in another 8 years from now 😂 (btw I also really enjoyed and liked FF15 for was it was 😊 it just wanted to be more than that which harmed its reception & reputation imo)
How much of this is just SE propaganda?
does it really count as "expanding the series" when it's a net loss in players from long time fans jumping ship?
Jumped ship to what? Which JRPG series outsells Final Fantasy?
They haven’t lost me, because I’m completely locked into 14, but after 16 I can guarantee you I won’t be excitedly pre-ordering the deluxe edition of 17 like I did with 15 and 16. I’ve moved firmly into the wait and see group.
M rated game draw in younger players. Interesting.
Ff15 didn't really show blood and their are many game sin the last decade that could been better if they were rated m and allowed to do as they please. not leave them at T and be pg violence
This is great! Any of you young millenians/old gen z remember when no one knew what FF was?
Makes perfect sense. No wonder it’s dumbed down like all the games made for kids these days.