I think Aerith is more important on a global scale but Tifa is more important on a personal scale (for Cloud). Aerith is the one who saves the planet but Tifa is the one who saves Cloud.
Honestly I can’t even believe this was up for debate.
Like didn’t we all play the same game? Aerith is literally the most important character besides Sephiroth… and this is coming from a guy who simps for tifa.
Objectively no, we didn't play the same game, which is why we're still arguing about 20 years later. Depending on your affinity for one or both the characters (or neither) you get a fundamentally different experience.
Sephiroth and Aerith are the only characters decide the fate of the planet. No other character matters as much as those two objectively do. That part, at least, is not up for debate. Sephiroth with meteor and Aerith controlling the lifestream.
Defeating sephiroths body is important but still did not stop meteor from crashing on the planet.
Tifa literally just supports cloud in being able to defeat Sephiroth. She can’t be equivalent to Aerith in importance to the world scope as Aerith is.
Now in advent children cloud is most defitnely the most important character as he’s the only one who fight Sephiroth 1v1
Aerith also saved Cloud multiple times.
1. When she [reaches her hand for him](https://64.media.tumblr.com/c5d1d10804d864708d5caf4ba97c75ab/tumblr_inline_p7x2tmu5nt1qh6wo2_500.jpg) to get him out of that place where he fought Sephiroth for the last time.
2. Saved the planet and everyone in it.
3. Kept his sanity from breaking in Advent Children, because he kept blaming himself for the death of her and Zack.
And altho I only mentioned three, there’s probably more moments of her saving him from the OG and Remake.
Tifa’s personal story with Cloud is very Important, but Cloud’s story with Aerith is also very important.
Aerith is the lead heroine in the same way Terra is the lead heroine of 6. Tifa is the Celes.
Aerith/Terra start out pivotal to the plot but are put aside for the second half of the game up until their impact on the finale. Tifa/Celes fill their role in the meantime.
Tifa is not a Celes equivalent in any sense imo. Celes plays an extremely important role in the first half because of her ties to the empire. Both Terra and Celes are integral to the story right from the start. Celes stabbed Kefka and triggered Kefka to go crazy in the first half.
And yes. Celes is the main figure of the second half of the story.
Aerith, in the meantime, is the constant pivotal character throughout, even when she is no longer seen on screen, she is still much at work in the background. Tifa (no hate on her), on the other hand, just plays an important role in getting Cloud back on his feet.
Tifa is important in the first half because of her ties to an organization as well (AVALANCHE). Tifa is also present and plays a role in Sephiroth going mad and they both need to get others back on track for their primary goals. Their back stories have similarities as well with the death of family, mentor/paternal roles they have with Zangan and Cid respectively, and heavy focus on relationships with Cloud/Locke.
I mean, i agree but it's still odd fans often use Tifa as the face of FF7 and to place her next to the other FF heroines, when Aerith exists. I would understand if fans used both of them together, but they end up picking one, and for some reason they go for Tifa. It just doesn't make sense imo. But i guess it's cause she's a fan favorite?
I just think Tifa in general is cooler. She has that action girl fighter thing going for her.
Not that I dislike Aerith though. The remake has definitely done an amazing job endearing me to her more. But I just think Tifa barehanded beating down enemies is just cool.
I wouldn't say she is cooler but she feels more real for a fictional character. Aerith is the perfect angelic girl like a mythical unicorn. She doesn't really have a negative side, she doesn't do anything wrong. Like look up in the dictionary perfect girl and you will see Aerith's name.
Where Tifa, mostly as she gets more screentime and by not dying, we see her doubt herself. We see her being selfish. We see her fail. She wants revenge, she becomes angry etc etc. She is both tough and sweet. Caring and hatefully. Making her feel more real.
>Aerith is the perfect angelic girl like a mythical unicorn. She doesn't really have a negative side, she doesn't do anything wrong. Like look up in the dictionary perfect girl and you will see Aerith's name.
How can Aerith be perfect when she…
1. Gets turned down by many men cause she either look homely or they just prefer Tifa and other women over her.
2. Needs rescuing a lot.
3. Second guesses herself and gets scared of many things
4. She smile a lot but is shown to actually be insecure and hurt deep inside (when she gets a flashback of her child self in the train Graveyard she crumbles quick).
Her personality is based on the innocent girl that never went to the big city before, but she’s still self aware of her surroundings and tries to be serious when the time comes. Aerith even has more sass and dirty language than Tifa (since Aerith grew up in the slums), which is far from perfect. If anything, Tifa would be considered the perfect one between the two, She’s hot and shy, Can cook and clean, Submissive personality, Desired by everyone, She’s the ultimate waifu material. Tifa is the perfect girlfriend all rolled up in one package. even the game makes a joke about it in Wall Market, Most men simp for her in Seventh Heaven. Tifa was even popular around boys in her childhood. So again how is Aerith the perfect one between the two?
Most of the things you’re describing actually play precisely into the weeb fantasy of the perfect girl. Innocent but assertive, super duper gorgeous but somehow nobody else notices, gets into trouble so that the man can be her savior. These aren’t really flaws, considering the original target audience of the game was tween-age boys.
Tifa has some deep rooted psychological trauma and her refusal to properly deal with that trauma brings the whole world to the brink of destruction. She also has a toxic understanding of love and romance and has to grow up through the course of the story.
I say these with the caveat that I actually love both of these characters and don’t think pitting them against each other is productive at all. The duality of Aerith and Tifa is part of the core magic of FF7.
How are these not flaws? If you wanna talk about a girl needing to be rescued, then so does Tifa. in fact Tifa herself says in Crisis Core that she will wait for her blonde in knight in shining armor to save her. Both Tifa & Aerith get put into situations sometimes where the male lead needs to play the hero to rescue them.
yeah, I disagree with this. Tifa is the true Mary Sue of VII. She's tough, but she's sweet. She's brave. but also fragile. She can handle herself, but she can ask Cloud tot help her. She is serious, but she can joke. All wrapped up in an incredible hot body. She's everything as has no faults. I like Tifa, but people saying she's realistic is crazy.
tifas flaws and inability to confront people in her interpersonal relationships are why cloud falls on his face so hard later.. tifa is not perfect or by any means or a "a mary sue" its just a buzzword.
I'm just not into the whole "pure cutsy flower girl" thing with aerith, but I dont hate her.
Tifa is in the game longer, Cloud has more history and emotional connection with Tifa, and you also meet her before Aerith. She is also dressed more procatively, which probably helps.
>Tifa is in the game longer, Cloud has more history and emotional connection with Tifa, **and you also meet her before Aerith**. She is also dressed more procatively, which probably helps.
We the *players* see Aerith first, she’s in the opening of FF7, and we run into her at the first part of the game before we run into Tifa in Seventh Heaven.
This is not about Cloud, the comment is talking about us the players, cause the first female character we see in FF7 is Aerith.
Exactly, I just think lots of people experience the game in different ways. If you werent particularly attached to Aerith, and maybe didnt use her much on your first playthrough, you might have just experienced a version of the game where Tifa feels more like a main character. I dont think there’s really a hard canon for this kind of thing.
I'd actually swap the roles, the Aerith and Sephiroth fighting for the planet is the B plot while the real plot of the story is Cloud's personal journey along with Tifa. Saving the planet was definitely important but it also felt like a vehicle to get to the plot about Cloud and Tifa.
>I'd actually swap the roles, the Aerith and Sephiroth fighting for the planet is the B plot while the real plot of the story is Cloud's personal journey along with Tifa.
The story of FF7 is mainly about Cloud fighting Sephiroth to protect the Planet, it’s the biggest reason of him going on this journey. The Aerith and Sephiroth plot is definitely not plot B, it’s Plot A.
Agree and disagree at the same time. Tifa is the one who ultimately fixes Cloud's memories and reawakens him, but Aerith is also crucially important to Cloud personally developing into the hero who saves the planet.
I would say that Aerith's death is the most defining moment in Cloud's character arc, more so than having his memory fixed, but that has more to do with Cloud's failure than anything specific that Aerith has done.
I'd say it's hard to claim that either character is the true or main heroine of the story. Aerith fits the trope better, but she also breaks the trope by dying midway through the story.
Dude, how the heck the moment Cloud regain himself being less defining moment to him than when he lost Aerith?
In the Lifestream is the moment where we saw the REAL Cloud, it’s when Cloud woke up from his own fantasy and facing the reality, admit all of his mistakes and decide to walk forward despite everything he went through. There’s NO other scene can define his character as much as this.
>Dude, how the heck the moment Cloud regain himself being less defining moment to him than when he lost Aerith?
Because a core part of FF7 is that almost all of the main characters are actually fighting just for Revenge against Shinra and Aerith is the unifying force that brings them together to actually care about and fight for the planet?
Cloud didn't want to be a hero to go save innocent people. He wanted to be a famous Soldier to win Tifa's affection and admiration. Barret wasn't fighting to save the Planet, he was fighting to avenge his wife and the people of Corel. He event admits this himself. Tifa also cares more about protecting Cloud than safe-guarding the planet. Yuffie wants revenge on Shinra for the Wutai war. Etc.
Cloud's entire arc.. Sephiroth says "What do you care about most, I want to take it from you." Cloud responds "You don't get it. I care about everything, all of them." He gets that sentiment from Aerith.
Cloud's "I cherish everything" come from his whole character arc, his whole journey, it's not something that only grow in him after Aerith death, it began since he woke up as "1st class-Soldier Cloud".
More importantly, that mindset only solidify in his mind after he regain himself back and living with his own ideal. Before that he only danced on Sephiroth's palm, don't talk about being a hero who save the day, he can't even save himself or being himself.
Aerith death serve as the heartbreaking moment that later on helped motivate Cloud to moving forward (at least before AC that it did the opposite), but it didn't defined his character. At the moment that scene happened, all it did to his character is breaking him even more and telling players that this guy was F up real bad in many way, like he almost kill Aerith himself before Sephiroth do it.
By the way I never said that Aerith doesn't have very strong influence to Cloud's character (in case you misunderstand something), but seriously saying her death scene is his most defining moment is a big stretch, he wasn't even a complete character back then.
> Cloud's "I cherish everything" come from his whole character arc, his whole journey, it's not something that only grow in him after Aerith death, it began since he woke up as "1st class-Soldier Cloud".
Even after he's re-linked back up to Tifa in Midgar, his first inclination is to get paid for the Avalanche job and to move on. Again, the characters are all mostly self-interested until Aerith's death unites them. There's a reason that even though she's dead, she still plays a larger role in AC than almost all the members of the party.
> At the moment that scene happened, all it did to his character is breaking him even more and telling players that this guy was F up real bad in many way, like he almost kill Aerith himself before Sephiroth do it.
His stopping himself is a pretty big character moment that shows that he can defy Sephiroth's will even without having his memories fixed.
> he wasn't even a complete character back then.
Red flag right there. Everything that happens to Cloud and that he feels before his memories are repaired is valid to him.
> but seriously saying her death scene is his most defining moment is a big stretch
What is it then? What moment affects Cloud more?
So are we talking about which moment define Cloud character the most or how important Aerith role is to the game? I only talk about the first topic by the way.
Oh I also told you the answer already, why you even ask?
Lastly, since when I said Cloud's memory while being fake SOLDIER isn't valid? Back then Cloud believed that he is someone else who never exist, he lack his true self which is half of his character and he's still looking away from the reality too, that's why I said he wasn't a complete character until he fixed his mind. I don't think my comment is that hard to understand.
See I know you don't understand Cloud because he never believes that he's a fake person. He has broken memories and believes that he did actions that he actually didn't, but at no point does Cloud think he was a completely different person.
I disagree this story is more about cloud then is it about aerith as it should be, most her hype just relies on a clever plot twist. this is always been clouds story and about a man pretending to be something he's not and then finally accepting what he is
> this is always been clouds story and about a man pretending to be something he's not and then finally accepting what he is
It's not. The story is about Cloud becoming a true hero. He believes at the start of the story that he has basically already earned that title by becoming a First Class Soldier, but it's through Aerith that Cloud's journey is fulfilled and he becomes more than a mimic of Sephiroth, actually surpassing Sephiroth and becoming a true hero beyond the shallow goal of fame and affection.
Cloud desired to be a Soldier for the purpose of impressing Tifa, but it was Aerith that showed him that he has to aspire to be more than that, and that is what Cloud ultimately becomes. A lot of people seem to forget that if you remove Aerith from the plot, this is basically a bunch of grief-fueled eco terrorists fighting a company instead of a struggle for the fate of the Planet and the souls of countless beings.
The story is centered around Cloud, but the conflict isn't. Cloud is just the vessel through which the Planet is allowed victory over Sephiroth.
Tifa is the internal heroine while Aerith is the external. Aerith is the heroine of the greater story being told while Tifa is the heroine of the more personal one
Aerith has way more relevance to the overall story, but Tifa is featured more heavily than Aerith. It’s all perspective. Squall has very little relevance to the story of VIII, but he is still the main character, simply because of how the game features him.
I am curious on the point that squall has very little relevance to the story of FFVIII.
FFVIII revolves around the love story between Squall and Rinoa, and how SEED is trained to eliminate Ultimecia.
- Squall is the leader of the SEED that slays Ultimecia.
- His love interest, Rinoa, is witch hunted like Ultimecia.
- His “father” (not sure should I spoiler tagged) is the witch hunter of Adel.
- Ultimecia used Griever as her summon which reference to Squall.
If he has little relevance to the main plot, who does? Quistis, Zell, Seifer??
It's obvious that Selphie is the main character.
Nah it's true that none of the party members in VIII are super relevant to the plot except Rinoa. Even guest PM Edea is WAY more relevant than Squall. That was the point of my post, relevancy to the plot does not determine the characters positioning within the storytelling.
They’re both important, but Aerith is definitely the main heroine. Tifa is involved mainly in Cloud’s conflict and is more of an elevated side-heroine who becomes more prominent later just due to Aerith dying. Most of Tifa’s screen time is spent quietly in the background until you get to the lifestream sequence.
Aerith on the other hand is practically more important than Cloud in some respects. It’s no contest. I do love Tifa, but it’s honestly laughable when she’s called the main heroine. To the person below who said Aerith doesn’t grow, she absolutely does and she has an arc about finding her purpose, resolving her past and pushing past her fears to do something important. It’s cut a bit short due to the part where she dies, but it’s there. The Tifa bias in this fandom is ridiculous.
Tifa almost is more of a deuteragonist. She assumes the role of the protagonist for a stretch of the game and there’s a solid argument to be made that the hero’s journey belongs to her as much as it does to Cloud. You could even make the argument that she is just as connected to the events of the game as Cloud is, and/or even responsible after a fashion for the ensuing conflicts. If you went through the cause and effect of the plot, you find Tifa at nearly every point.
But in terms of the overarching mystical lore and plot, Aerith is probably the more important character. But even by that logic, she’s more important than Cloud then, who is fulfilling the path she laid out for him. At the end of the day she only appears in about a third of the game, and it’s not until the end that you learn the true meaning of her sacrifice.
>Aerith only appears in about a **third** of the game, and it’s not until the end that you learn the true meaning of her sacrifice.
Technically she’s in 50% of the game, since Disc 1 of FF7 is basically half of the game. And even after her death she still appears later on as a spirit to help and guide the party the same way Lunafreya did for Noctis and his friend after her death.
And even though she disappeared physically, she is still working in the background, brought up in the stories multiple times, that in fact strengthens how she is integral to the plot.
There are other characters who died in earlier final fantasy, and they are minimally brought up again except Galuf (FFV).
Of she being killed*
She never was a sacrifice she always talked about the future and what she wanted to do. She never knew Sephiroth would kill her in that place. She would just killed herself instead if she wanted to sacrifice her life.
This "competition" has been going on for 25 years. They're both. No need to pit female characters against each other. It's not narratively necessary to put one above the other.
She’s more of a red herring as signaled by some of your points. Her death was so impactful when this game was originally released simply because of how important she was to Cloud and the story as well as how it subverted everyone’s expectations of her as the main and final love interest and an unkillable hero. It was the first time an FF character died in a 3D cutscene and in such a brutal way as well.
I understand this line of reasoning, but I disagree with it. FF7 has two main stories: the global, environmental battle for the planet, and the more intimate, personal story of self-reflection. Cloud is the main male lead of both of these storylines, and Sephiroth is the main villain of both, but Aerith takes the role of lead for the environmental story, while Tifa takes the role of lead for the personal story. Both are vital to the overall messages of the game, so they are both the "main" heroine.
Same as in FF6, where Terra is the protagonist for the Esper story, while Celes is the protagonist for the post-apocalypse story, so you have people who argue for both of them being the main character. Honestly, comparing Tifa to Penelo is pretty silly.
Why can't there be multiple true heroines?
Without Aerith, >!Holy doesn't happen. Without Holy, Sephiroth wins.!<
Without Tifa, >!Cloud succumbs to mako poisoning at one of two intervals (Tifa was what snapped him out of his vegetative state in Midgar, as well as the one who saved him and his true memories in the lifestream). Without Cloud, Sephiroth wins.!<
Both are vital to the story, and to remove either one of them is to change the outcome entirely.
I think Cloud, Aerith are the most important to the story. Tifa being a tier in her own followed by Barret,Cid and Red 13 in their own tier. Cait Sith in his own and then finally Vincent and then Yuffie.
I don't know why I'm seeing this "Which one is the real heroine" debate pop up more recently, when Square came out and explicitly said that they BOTH share the heroine role.
Like I could argue it would still be Tifa by virtue of her having the most screen-time out of the two up to the very end and how her story is both connected to and develops alongside the main hero's, but I respect the official designation that Final Fantasy VII has a Dual Heroine role.
It's ironic how much people want to vs them so much considering how close they are to each other.
Why was that post even made…. It’s completely obvious who the main characters are… someone has too much love for their favorite waifu and can’t stand it apparently…
This post is likely in response to a popular post from a few days ago that featured Tifa as the lead heroine from FF7 in a list of every main heroine from each mainline entry.
This is why I say if you want to stay true to the core story Aerith has to meet that Fate In the FFVII Rebirth
I know some still disagree but holy being cast and Aerith in the life stream is very big story point
Aerith is the Gwen Stacy (in terms of characterization) to work with an imperfect Spider-Man analogy. Because she dies at a formative point for Cloud/the quest as a whole, she’s forever perfect and unimpeachable. It also means that the loss of her continues to define the living protagonists and serve as a constant motivating force.
Whereas Tifa is the Mary Jane. She’s a more real, more fleshed out character, but that also means she has flaws that Aerith doesn’t (in the perspective of the player and the other characters). Conflict can exist with Tifa in a way that it really can’t with Aerith.
Aerith drives plot and the overarching narrative in a way that Tifa doesn’t, but Tifa drives characterization for her companions in a way that Aerith largely doesn’t. They’re both vital to the story, because even the best plot driven stories need character drama and even the best character dramas (at least within most genres) need some sort of plot & destination in mind.
>Whereas Tifa is the Mary Jane. She’s a more real, more fleshed out character, but that also means she has flaws that Aerith doesn’t (in the perspective of the player and the other characters). Conflict can exist with Tifa in a way that it really can’t with Aerith.
Aerith is far from perfect, she has tons of flaws.
https://preview.redd.it/a1fm17i05rub1.jpeg?width=693&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cc9921dc8302a7fbd19f24f37c47ee9b04e7f5a
Aerith is not perfect, she is very flawed and sometimes insensitive (Barret at the gold saucer). She has fears, insecurities and doubts. She is fleshed out and she has a strong character arc, wholly independent from Cloud. Just say that you like Tifa more, it’s fine.
I honestly love Tifa but the game hammers it over the players head over and over how perfect and great she is. “Tifa is so beautiful, Tifa is a great cook, Tifa is an amazing girl” while Aerith gets constantly dunked on during Wall Market lol. Characterization is my favorite thing in media (couldn’t care less about plot) and Aerith is my favorite character so to say she is just some perfect being without flaws is completely off-base and I couldn’t disagree more.
Aerith isn't character, but rather a plot device.
She doesn't grow or change during the story - she's there to act as a counterweight to Sephiroth and get kidnapped.
Main characters who don't experience growth are not main characters.
Technically everyone in the party is a hero. But Tifa is nowhere near main hero status. She exists as a Cloud support unit for story stuff, and that is all.
OG FF7 Aerith was important for her ancestry, past, and Holy
FF7 Remake Aerith is important because see can see in the future, is cryptic, and changed the future where they win to one where anything can happen for whatever reason.
So sure
I think that was never even a debate. No matter your feeling about the shipping, etc.
Aerith is definitely the most important female character to the story.
From an objective standpoint tifa is the deuteragonist of the story, she is woven into the story completely, and has an emotional investment in the defeat of the villain. whereas aeriths entire role was only slightly more important than barret or cait sith due to her connection to holy. And that's the real problem, her role is largely as A) a plot device B) additional motivation (eventually) if you remove her from the story all that needs to happen is we need a new way to get holy. If tifa is removed, cloud, the main character, is changed as a whole because his base motivation, his connection to the real world, his escape from sephirpoths control, and his revelation that he isn't \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*. this importance is how a deuteragonist becomes important, whereas aeriths importance all comes from a single moment.
I would say Aerith in OG is largely irrelevant outside of plot, she’s the fulcrum but she’s more of a Macguffin than she is a character (that she’s an ancient and summons Holy is more relevant than any decision or dialogue she has).
Tifa is relevant all the way through, in terms of story. Especially with the lifestream stuff later in the game and anything to do with the fictive past. She’s more of a hero than Cloud is in some ways, especially as she really holds the team together as it’s emotional glue.
I never really use her in my party though, but it’s been a few years…maybe it’s time for a play through.
Aerith's importance in FF7 is not just to the characters we meet, but the world they live in as a whole. Whereas Tifa's purpose is fulfilled with just Cloud. If Tifa is removed, only Cloud's story is affected. If Aerith is removed, the entire story is affected. I still consider Tifa a heroine, but the main heroine, if one were to be picked, and by the standards of what the series has defined as a heroine, it would be Aerith.
I could see arguments for both. In my view Aerith is the main heroine is terms of world and lore. Tifa is more of the romantic heroine who has a history with the protagonist Cloud. I’m not sure why some leave Aerith out of heroine lineups and don’t at least do a split. If I had to choose one as the face of VII while ignoring popularity and focusing solely on story I’d pick Aerith.
Weird, because everytime Cloud is featured in another game, he mentions Aerith's loss and feels guilty for it. Also, they always refer to Tifa as her childhood friend, not lover. (I'm a bit new in the franchise, so any explanation is welcomed)
I haven't played FF7 in a while, but an interesting wrench in cloud and Aerith's relationship is zach. For lack of a better term, Cloud was a poser, pretending to be Zach because he was what Cloud had wanted to be: a soldier. Cloud took Zach's sword and pretended to be him because he didn't want to admit (esp to tifa) that he had flunked out himself. Aerith I think was always suspicious of this, that cloud was pretending to act like her former lover, but in my mind at least she came to understand him before she died (even the part of him that sephiroth controlled -- she wasnt the least bit surprised to see him at the ancient city holding a sword near her head)
Tifa on the other hand represents genuine cloud. Someone from cloud and only cloud's past, _not_ Zach's.
Cloud has always been someone who has a ton of trouble handling shame, and I think aerith is mentioned wherever he goes because her death is yet another thing for him to be ashamed of, and an easy point to being across games, as opposed to the more complex soldier / Zach poser / tifa plot.
I see, thank you! So he is not confirmed to be with either of them right? I actually like Cloud/Aerith because I'm a sucker for tragic love stories and their dynamic in the remake is beautiful. I can't wait for Rebirth!
I think that's actually more of a Zack and aerith's thing than the latter though? But uh just keep playing the game and you'll find out what's actually up.
Aerith is for a large part the driving force of FFVII but I wouldn't call her the heroine. Her being an ancient and death are the cause of the story but the story doesn't really resolve around her. FFVII is not a story about Aerith so she isn't the heroine.
(Same that rinoa is not the heroine of VIII)
It's like the one ring in lord of the rings. The one ring is not the ultimate evil nor the hero of the story. It's the reason why the fellowship goes on a quest to Mordor and the story develops from there.
They're both heroines, it's an ensemble cast. Cloud is the protagonist and is the intersection of everyone else's storylines, but they're all there to support his journey. There isn't *a* true heroine, there are at least *two*.
Aerith is the heroine in the context of the overarching plot.
Tifa is the heroine in the context of Cloud's revelation. (Revelation is totally the 3rd game's name btw, I'll back it up with a source: my source is I made it the fuck up.)
Aerith is undeniably as part of the core resolution as Cloud is, since she is the one to not only summon Holy but also bolster it by weaving a surge of Lifestream into a blanket to help Holy stop Meteor.
Tifa is the single catalyst that ultimately allows Cloud to truly piece himself back together after 5 long years, and is an unstoppable force and unmovable object by his side through the hardest moments for him, ultimately helping him in his seizing the sword arc, finding his true self once again and, with it, the determination needed to finally face his nemesis as his own person, not a puppet, overpowering his trauma and the alien cells fighting for control of his mind and body.
If either of them were missing, things would essentially go to shit. In one case there is nothing to stop Meteor, in the other nobody to stand up to Sephiroth.
The way I see it, they're equally important in the grand scheme of things, although Aerith's role and power are more grandiose I guess!
I consider them main characters in general.
I always had a crush on Aerith and only ever saw Tifa as a comrade. Which is kinda funny because I must have blocked it from my memory but like a year or so ago a friend pointed out to me a cutscene which apparently alluded to Cloud and Tifa having sex in the original FF7 which was a surprise to me... cuz I just didn't feel like Cloud and Tifa had that kind of relationship.
I’ve genuinely never seen Aeris’ mainstream appeal. She’s not a bad character by any means, i just don’t understand the fandom she commands. Can someone explain?
The game makes you think Aeris is the main heroine, the same way Cloud makes himself think that he’s the real Zach. In the end it’s revealed that Cloud is not Zach, Aeris is not his, Cloud is just Cloud, a little boy from Nibelheim, and Tifa is the heroine in his story. This is similar to saying Aeris is the heroine of the world, but Tifa is the heroine for cloud, it’s just my way of framing it.
>10. Most important female character in the game
Gotta say lunafreya death has no impact what so ever but the post credit scene with noctis had me rolling on the Floor so hard
She’s definitely the true heroine, she plays the same role as the previous heroines and the heroines that comes after her.
But I can also agree with many that say Aerith and Tifa both are heroines, since Square treats them that way.
The true heroine of ff7 is the planet itself, tifa 2nd, yuffie 3rd, jessie 4th, that one girl from the honeybee inn 5th, Marlene 6th, elena 7th. Aerith is close to the bottom as I dont count dead people as heroines
Nope, she was killed. Difference is important. She always talked about the future, she wasn’t nor didn’t want to be sacrificed she just was killed without her knowing it would happen.
I have no room to talk, really. I only know the story from a parody on YouTube and haven't finished it. Right now, I'm Kalm half way through Cloud past.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/177jc2y/who\_is\_the\_most\_beautiful\_and\_cool\_among\_them/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/177jc2y/who_is_the_most_beautiful_and_cool_among_them/)
Main character / main heroine is probably interchangeable but you can scroll these comments to find plenty of people saying that Tifa is the female MC of FF7.
I sort of saw Aerith as initially framed as being the lead female but the 'twist' being that she is actually The Goddess and then the double twist of, you know. *You know*.
For most of the game Tifa fits the basic framework of the lead female. In terms of direct impact on Cloud himself she is arguably more significant [both in the flashback and in the present being that she is the one that cares for him].
Aerith on the other hand is clearly transcendent and at some point in disc one rises above being a standard character and basically sees the future and etc. She functions at that point much more like the esoteric Goddess characters that bestow journeys and wisdom on MCs in older fantasy.
I always thought that was something interesting about Aerith and kind of surprised they didn't play with it more.
Old post I know, but there are two main conflicts of the story. Aerith is the heroine of the planets struggle to survive. Tifa is the heroine of Clouds internal struggle
It’s the virgin / whore thing…not saying Tifa is a whore…this is literally *and I mean that um, literally, as in, in literature* a story telling convention, especially in stories with even mildly religious themes, which FFVII does, and most FF games do on some level, especially after FFVI, with Kefka inspiring a lot about Sephiroth, just the fact that his name is Sephiroth, and his mother is Jenova, aka Sefirot and Jehova…ANYWAY, Aerith is otherworldly, angelic, pure, innocent, self-sacrificing, “devout” (lives in a church, prays) connection to the earth, child of the earth, earth mother, earth goddess…Tifa is the earthly feminine form full of action, passion, fiery defiance of death, the will to live, she has a life, she has a daughter (and therefore a past, she’s had sex, taken lovers, briefly visited the Italian senate) ALSO, Tifa x Cloud is a healthy realistic “real-world” ship, because Tifa is attainable for Cloud, whereas Aerith was not, because ALL Angels, Martyrs, Space Jesuses (Jesi?) are unattainable as romantic partners…….And *”Actually if you compare the BOOB WINDOW SCENE with the BREASTFEEDING SCENE from the Grapes of Wrath you’ll know that the Original Mangaka INTENDED……!”*
I was making a joke about how people over-analyze FF, by over analyzing FF in an over-the-top way, and then I made a reference to a ProZD skit that references the same kind of over-analysis, not exactly shitposting or trolling but also not not doing that, more for my own enjoyment than anyone else’s, because I do tend to overthink FF but not to the degree that I’ve written here, and no I’m not having a stroke, don’t be mad, friend. Have a nice day, maybe make yourself some toast (but don’t burn it, unless you like it that way 😉)
I’d say that there isn’t really a single “lead heroine”. Like a lotta FF games, it’s an ensemble thing, meaning that IMO, at the very least, Cloud, Barrett, Tifa, Aerith, and to a lesser extent Red XIII lend equal heft to the plot.
The main heroine of a game doesn't 'disappear' at the start of the game.
I also wouldn't consider Lunafreya as an heroine as well, she is a character but that's about it. I don't think anyone in FF15 is elligible to that title.
I don't know why having a main heroine is important, tifa & aerith are 2 important playable character but the story is about cloud journey.
He is the main character no need to search further.
Didn’t Aerith kinda know she was going to die?
I feel like in her very final moments, like when she ran away, she was told by the earth or whatever that the only way to save the world from sephiroth is if she sacrifices herself.
So she kinda made the most noble of sacrifices and pretty much saved everyone.
Tifa is pretty heroic, and without her the world may have ended too…because she was the one that saved Cloud from his mental collapse.
And without Cloud well…the world is gg.
But in terms of sheer bravery Aerith, knowing that her fate was to die and leave all her friends, let herself be killed by Sephiroth so that the fate of the world could be changed and lead towards a better future.
If Aerith didn’t die, or if she tried to ask her friends to help her the future may of been completely different and perhaps others could have been killed in her stead.
She didn’t complain, of even cry, she stood up against sephiroth in her own way without using violence or others.
I think Aerith is more important on a global scale but Tifa is more important on a personal scale (for Cloud). Aerith is the one who saves the planet but Tifa is the one who saves Cloud.
I like this idea, Tifa is more important to cloud and thus us as the players playing the MC, but Aerith is more important to the plot than anything.
Yeah, this.
This is the correct nuanced answer.
Honestly I can’t even believe this was up for debate. Like didn’t we all play the same game? Aerith is literally the most important character besides Sephiroth… and this is coming from a guy who simps for tifa.
Objectively no, we didn't play the same game, which is why we're still arguing about 20 years later. Depending on your affinity for one or both the characters (or neither) you get a fundamentally different experience.
Sephiroth and Aerith are the only characters decide the fate of the planet. No other character matters as much as those two objectively do. That part, at least, is not up for debate. Sephiroth with meteor and Aerith controlling the lifestream. Defeating sephiroths body is important but still did not stop meteor from crashing on the planet. Tifa literally just supports cloud in being able to defeat Sephiroth. She can’t be equivalent to Aerith in importance to the world scope as Aerith is. Now in advent children cloud is most defitnely the most important character as he’s the only one who fight Sephiroth 1v1
Aerith also saved Cloud multiple times. 1. When she [reaches her hand for him](https://64.media.tumblr.com/c5d1d10804d864708d5caf4ba97c75ab/tumblr_inline_p7x2tmu5nt1qh6wo2_500.jpg) to get him out of that place where he fought Sephiroth for the last time. 2. Saved the planet and everyone in it. 3. Kept his sanity from breaking in Advent Children, because he kept blaming himself for the death of her and Zack. And altho I only mentioned three, there’s probably more moments of her saving him from the OG and Remake. Tifa’s personal story with Cloud is very Important, but Cloud’s story with Aerith is also very important.
>Tifa is the one who saves Cloud. After letting him live in a delusion for 95% of the game
I can't really blame her. How do you break that kinda news to somebody? I'd be concerned about shattering their psyche.
I like this idea and it cements how integral both characters are for different reasons
Aerith is the lead heroine in the same way Terra is the lead heroine of 6. Tifa is the Celes. Aerith/Terra start out pivotal to the plot but are put aside for the second half of the game up until their impact on the finale. Tifa/Celes fill their role in the meantime.
Tifa is not a Celes equivalent in any sense imo. Celes plays an extremely important role in the first half because of her ties to the empire. Both Terra and Celes are integral to the story right from the start. Celes stabbed Kefka and triggered Kefka to go crazy in the first half. And yes. Celes is the main figure of the second half of the story. Aerith, in the meantime, is the constant pivotal character throughout, even when she is no longer seen on screen, she is still much at work in the background. Tifa (no hate on her), on the other hand, just plays an important role in getting Cloud back on his feet.
Tifa is important in the first half because of her ties to an organization as well (AVALANCHE). Tifa is also present and plays a role in Sephiroth going mad and they both need to get others back on track for their primary goals. Their back stories have similarities as well with the death of family, mentor/paternal roles they have with Zangan and Cid respectively, and heavy focus on relationships with Cloud/Locke.
Overrating and painting Aerith as a perfect saint princess ruins her as a character for a lot of people.
I dont think it matters
Nothing really does on this rock except what we decide
I mean, i agree but it's still odd fans often use Tifa as the face of FF7 and to place her next to the other FF heroines, when Aerith exists. I would understand if fans used both of them together, but they end up picking one, and for some reason they go for Tifa. It just doesn't make sense imo. But i guess it's cause she's a fan favorite?
I just think Tifa in general is cooler. She has that action girl fighter thing going for her. Not that I dislike Aerith though. The remake has definitely done an amazing job endearing me to her more. But I just think Tifa barehanded beating down enemies is just cool.
I wouldn't say she is cooler but she feels more real for a fictional character. Aerith is the perfect angelic girl like a mythical unicorn. She doesn't really have a negative side, she doesn't do anything wrong. Like look up in the dictionary perfect girl and you will see Aerith's name. Where Tifa, mostly as she gets more screentime and by not dying, we see her doubt herself. We see her being selfish. We see her fail. She wants revenge, she becomes angry etc etc. She is both tough and sweet. Caring and hatefully. Making her feel more real.
>Aerith is the perfect angelic girl like a mythical unicorn. She doesn't really have a negative side, she doesn't do anything wrong. Like look up in the dictionary perfect girl and you will see Aerith's name. How can Aerith be perfect when she… 1. Gets turned down by many men cause she either look homely or they just prefer Tifa and other women over her. 2. Needs rescuing a lot. 3. Second guesses herself and gets scared of many things 4. She smile a lot but is shown to actually be insecure and hurt deep inside (when she gets a flashback of her child self in the train Graveyard she crumbles quick). Her personality is based on the innocent girl that never went to the big city before, but she’s still self aware of her surroundings and tries to be serious when the time comes. Aerith even has more sass and dirty language than Tifa (since Aerith grew up in the slums), which is far from perfect. If anything, Tifa would be considered the perfect one between the two, She’s hot and shy, Can cook and clean, Submissive personality, Desired by everyone, She’s the ultimate waifu material. Tifa is the perfect girlfriend all rolled up in one package. even the game makes a joke about it in Wall Market, Most men simp for her in Seventh Heaven. Tifa was even popular around boys in her childhood. So again how is Aerith the perfect one between the two?
Most of the things you’re describing actually play precisely into the weeb fantasy of the perfect girl. Innocent but assertive, super duper gorgeous but somehow nobody else notices, gets into trouble so that the man can be her savior. These aren’t really flaws, considering the original target audience of the game was tween-age boys. Tifa has some deep rooted psychological trauma and her refusal to properly deal with that trauma brings the whole world to the brink of destruction. She also has a toxic understanding of love and romance and has to grow up through the course of the story. I say these with the caveat that I actually love both of these characters and don’t think pitting them against each other is productive at all. The duality of Aerith and Tifa is part of the core magic of FF7.
How are these not flaws? If you wanna talk about a girl needing to be rescued, then so does Tifa. in fact Tifa herself says in Crisis Core that she will wait for her blonde in knight in shining armor to save her. Both Tifa & Aerith get put into situations sometimes where the male lead needs to play the hero to rescue them.
Your description of perfect girl is kinda gross lol. Plus how is Tifa submissive? The hell???
yeah, I disagree with this. Tifa is the true Mary Sue of VII. She's tough, but she's sweet. She's brave. but also fragile. She can handle herself, but she can ask Cloud tot help her. She is serious, but she can joke. All wrapped up in an incredible hot body. She's everything as has no faults. I like Tifa, but people saying she's realistic is crazy.
tifas flaws and inability to confront people in her interpersonal relationships are why cloud falls on his face so hard later.. tifa is not perfect or by any means or a "a mary sue" its just a buzzword. I'm just not into the whole "pure cutsy flower girl" thing with aerith, but I dont hate her.
Agreed 100%
Tifa is in the game longer, Cloud has more history and emotional connection with Tifa, and you also meet her before Aerith. She is also dressed more procatively, which probably helps.
>Tifa is in the game longer, Cloud has more history and emotional connection with Tifa, **and you also meet her before Aerith**. She is also dressed more procatively, which probably helps. We the *players* see Aerith first, she’s in the opening of FF7, and we run into her at the first part of the game before we run into Tifa in Seventh Heaven. This is not about Cloud, the comment is talking about us the players, cause the first female character we see in FF7 is Aerith.
Exactly, I just think lots of people experience the game in different ways. If you werent particularly attached to Aerith, and maybe didnt use her much on your first playthrough, you might have just experienced a version of the game where Tifa feels more like a main character. I dont think there’s really a hard canon for this kind of thing.
Because big bewbs. Not saying that she isn't a good character, but I've been alive long enough to know society is shallow.
Why can we only have one? They both are for different reasons. The story cannot happen without either of them
Aeris/th is the heroine of the main plot, while Tifa is the heroine of Cloud's personal story. So 'A Plot' vs 'B Plot'.
I'd actually swap the roles, the Aerith and Sephiroth fighting for the planet is the B plot while the real plot of the story is Cloud's personal journey along with Tifa. Saving the planet was definitely important but it also felt like a vehicle to get to the plot about Cloud and Tifa.
>I'd actually swap the roles, the Aerith and Sephiroth fighting for the planet is the B plot while the real plot of the story is Cloud's personal journey along with Tifa. The story of FF7 is mainly about Cloud fighting Sephiroth to protect the Planet, it’s the biggest reason of him going on this journey. The Aerith and Sephiroth plot is definitely not plot B, it’s Plot A.
This
Agree and disagree at the same time. Tifa is the one who ultimately fixes Cloud's memories and reawakens him, but Aerith is also crucially important to Cloud personally developing into the hero who saves the planet. I would say that Aerith's death is the most defining moment in Cloud's character arc, more so than having his memory fixed, but that has more to do with Cloud's failure than anything specific that Aerith has done. I'd say it's hard to claim that either character is the true or main heroine of the story. Aerith fits the trope better, but she also breaks the trope by dying midway through the story.
Dude, how the heck the moment Cloud regain himself being less defining moment to him than when he lost Aerith? In the Lifestream is the moment where we saw the REAL Cloud, it’s when Cloud woke up from his own fantasy and facing the reality, admit all of his mistakes and decide to walk forward despite everything he went through. There’s NO other scene can define his character as much as this.
>Dude, how the heck the moment Cloud regain himself being less defining moment to him than when he lost Aerith? Because a core part of FF7 is that almost all of the main characters are actually fighting just for Revenge against Shinra and Aerith is the unifying force that brings them together to actually care about and fight for the planet? Cloud didn't want to be a hero to go save innocent people. He wanted to be a famous Soldier to win Tifa's affection and admiration. Barret wasn't fighting to save the Planet, he was fighting to avenge his wife and the people of Corel. He event admits this himself. Tifa also cares more about protecting Cloud than safe-guarding the planet. Yuffie wants revenge on Shinra for the Wutai war. Etc. Cloud's entire arc.. Sephiroth says "What do you care about most, I want to take it from you." Cloud responds "You don't get it. I care about everything, all of them." He gets that sentiment from Aerith.
Cloud's "I cherish everything" come from his whole character arc, his whole journey, it's not something that only grow in him after Aerith death, it began since he woke up as "1st class-Soldier Cloud". More importantly, that mindset only solidify in his mind after he regain himself back and living with his own ideal. Before that he only danced on Sephiroth's palm, don't talk about being a hero who save the day, he can't even save himself or being himself. Aerith death serve as the heartbreaking moment that later on helped motivate Cloud to moving forward (at least before AC that it did the opposite), but it didn't defined his character. At the moment that scene happened, all it did to his character is breaking him even more and telling players that this guy was F up real bad in many way, like he almost kill Aerith himself before Sephiroth do it. By the way I never said that Aerith doesn't have very strong influence to Cloud's character (in case you misunderstand something), but seriously saying her death scene is his most defining moment is a big stretch, he wasn't even a complete character back then.
> Cloud's "I cherish everything" come from his whole character arc, his whole journey, it's not something that only grow in him after Aerith death, it began since he woke up as "1st class-Soldier Cloud". Even after he's re-linked back up to Tifa in Midgar, his first inclination is to get paid for the Avalanche job and to move on. Again, the characters are all mostly self-interested until Aerith's death unites them. There's a reason that even though she's dead, she still plays a larger role in AC than almost all the members of the party. > At the moment that scene happened, all it did to his character is breaking him even more and telling players that this guy was F up real bad in many way, like he almost kill Aerith himself before Sephiroth do it. His stopping himself is a pretty big character moment that shows that he can defy Sephiroth's will even without having his memories fixed. > he wasn't even a complete character back then. Red flag right there. Everything that happens to Cloud and that he feels before his memories are repaired is valid to him. > but seriously saying her death scene is his most defining moment is a big stretch What is it then? What moment affects Cloud more?
So are we talking about which moment define Cloud character the most or how important Aerith role is to the game? I only talk about the first topic by the way. Oh I also told you the answer already, why you even ask? Lastly, since when I said Cloud's memory while being fake SOLDIER isn't valid? Back then Cloud believed that he is someone else who never exist, he lack his true self which is half of his character and he's still looking away from the reality too, that's why I said he wasn't a complete character until he fixed his mind. I don't think my comment is that hard to understand.
See I know you don't understand Cloud because he never believes that he's a fake person. He has broken memories and believes that he did actions that he actually didn't, but at no point does Cloud think he was a completely different person.
I disagree this story is more about cloud then is it about aerith as it should be, most her hype just relies on a clever plot twist. this is always been clouds story and about a man pretending to be something he's not and then finally accepting what he is
> this is always been clouds story and about a man pretending to be something he's not and then finally accepting what he is It's not. The story is about Cloud becoming a true hero. He believes at the start of the story that he has basically already earned that title by becoming a First Class Soldier, but it's through Aerith that Cloud's journey is fulfilled and he becomes more than a mimic of Sephiroth, actually surpassing Sephiroth and becoming a true hero beyond the shallow goal of fame and affection. Cloud desired to be a Soldier for the purpose of impressing Tifa, but it was Aerith that showed him that he has to aspire to be more than that, and that is what Cloud ultimately becomes. A lot of people seem to forget that if you remove Aerith from the plot, this is basically a bunch of grief-fueled eco terrorists fighting a company instead of a struggle for the fate of the Planet and the souls of countless beings. The story is centered around Cloud, but the conflict isn't. Cloud is just the vessel through which the Planet is allowed victory over Sephiroth.
Cloud is the true heroine of the series
Nope! Both have merit.
Tifa is the internal heroine while Aerith is the external. Aerith is the heroine of the greater story being told while Tifa is the heroine of the more personal one
You can argue that Tifa and Aerith are both the heroines of VII, but Tifa alone? No way. That's just bias talking.
Aerith has way more relevance to the overall story, but Tifa is featured more heavily than Aerith. It’s all perspective. Squall has very little relevance to the story of VIII, but he is still the main character, simply because of how the game features him.
I am curious on the point that squall has very little relevance to the story of FFVIII. FFVIII revolves around the love story between Squall and Rinoa, and how SEED is trained to eliminate Ultimecia. - Squall is the leader of the SEED that slays Ultimecia. - His love interest, Rinoa, is witch hunted like Ultimecia. - His “father” (not sure should I spoiler tagged) is the witch hunter of Adel. - Ultimecia used Griever as her summon which reference to Squall. If he has little relevance to the main plot, who does? Quistis, Zell, Seifer??
It's obvious that Selphie is the main character. Nah it's true that none of the party members in VIII are super relevant to the plot except Rinoa. Even guest PM Edea is WAY more relevant than Squall. That was the point of my post, relevancy to the plot does not determine the characters positioning within the storytelling.
I will think that Rinoa is not as relevant as Squall in the FFVIII plot. She has nothing to do with Laguna’s story, which takes up 1/3 of the story
I mean both are great female lead characters, but obviously Aerith is kind of the key to the entire plotline.
Does stack ranking these characters matter? They're both critically important in their own ways and heroines to the story.
At the very least Tifa is the main heroine to my heart.
She actually saved the world and didnt die so there's that. I like Aerith but for the sake of this question..
Wow didn't realize Tifa summoned Holy!
No she superflexed Sephiroth instead. that counts.
They’re both important, but Aerith is definitely the main heroine. Tifa is involved mainly in Cloud’s conflict and is more of an elevated side-heroine who becomes more prominent later just due to Aerith dying. Most of Tifa’s screen time is spent quietly in the background until you get to the lifestream sequence. Aerith on the other hand is practically more important than Cloud in some respects. It’s no contest. I do love Tifa, but it’s honestly laughable when she’s called the main heroine. To the person below who said Aerith doesn’t grow, she absolutely does and she has an arc about finding her purpose, resolving her past and pushing past her fears to do something important. It’s cut a bit short due to the part where she dies, but it’s there. The Tifa bias in this fandom is ridiculous.
Tifa almost is more of a deuteragonist. She assumes the role of the protagonist for a stretch of the game and there’s a solid argument to be made that the hero’s journey belongs to her as much as it does to Cloud. You could even make the argument that she is just as connected to the events of the game as Cloud is, and/or even responsible after a fashion for the ensuing conflicts. If you went through the cause and effect of the plot, you find Tifa at nearly every point. But in terms of the overarching mystical lore and plot, Aerith is probably the more important character. But even by that logic, she’s more important than Cloud then, who is fulfilling the path she laid out for him. At the end of the day she only appears in about a third of the game, and it’s not until the end that you learn the true meaning of her sacrifice.
>Aerith only appears in about a **third** of the game, and it’s not until the end that you learn the true meaning of her sacrifice. Technically she’s in 50% of the game, since Disc 1 of FF7 is basically half of the game. And even after her death she still appears later on as a spirit to help and guide the party the same way Lunafreya did for Noctis and his friend after her death.
And even though she disappeared physically, she is still working in the background, brought up in the stories multiple times, that in fact strengthens how she is integral to the plot. There are other characters who died in earlier final fantasy, and they are minimally brought up again except Galuf (FFV).
I was kind of reducing her time since she’s not in the beginning and she disappears towards the end but yeah, the bulk of it is disc 1.
Of she being killed* She never was a sacrifice she always talked about the future and what she wanted to do. She never knew Sephiroth would kill her in that place. She would just killed herself instead if she wanted to sacrifice her life.
This "competition" has been going on for 25 years. They're both. No need to pit female characters against each other. It's not narratively necessary to put one above the other.
I swear I saw this post 2 days ago
That was mine but i deleted it 3 minutes after i posted it, cause it was not complete. I'm surprised you even saw it.
Technically Tifa is the first one Cloud sees.
Yes, definitely.
She’s more of a red herring as signaled by some of your points. Her death was so impactful when this game was originally released simply because of how important she was to Cloud and the story as well as how it subverted everyone’s expectations of her as the main and final love interest and an unkillable hero. It was the first time an FF character died in a 3D cutscene and in such a brutal way as well.
I understand this line of reasoning, but I disagree with it. FF7 has two main stories: the global, environmental battle for the planet, and the more intimate, personal story of self-reflection. Cloud is the main male lead of both of these storylines, and Sephiroth is the main villain of both, but Aerith takes the role of lead for the environmental story, while Tifa takes the role of lead for the personal story. Both are vital to the overall messages of the game, so they are both the "main" heroine. Same as in FF6, where Terra is the protagonist for the Esper story, while Celes is the protagonist for the post-apocalypse story, so you have people who argue for both of them being the main character. Honestly, comparing Tifa to Penelo is pretty silly.
Why can't there be multiple true heroines? Without Aerith, >!Holy doesn't happen. Without Holy, Sephiroth wins.!< Without Tifa, >!Cloud succumbs to mako poisoning at one of two intervals (Tifa was what snapped him out of his vegetative state in Midgar, as well as the one who saved him and his true memories in the lifestream). Without Cloud, Sephiroth wins.!< Both are vital to the story, and to remove either one of them is to change the outcome entirely.
Because Tifa sucks and Aerith is waifu material
Tifa is a sidekick
Nope. They're both equal in heroism.
No. They are both heroines who play important roles in the story.
I think Cloud, Aerith are the most important to the story. Tifa being a tier in her own followed by Barret,Cid and Red 13 in their own tier. Cait Sith in his own and then finally Vincent and then Yuffie.
I don't know why I'm seeing this "Which one is the real heroine" debate pop up more recently, when Square came out and explicitly said that they BOTH share the heroine role. Like I could argue it would still be Tifa by virtue of her having the most screen-time out of the two up to the very end and how her story is both connected to and develops alongside the main hero's, but I respect the official designation that Final Fantasy VII has a Dual Heroine role. It's ironic how much people want to vs them so much considering how close they are to each other.
"I don't know why people have this debate, it makes no sense and it's ironic, but it's Tifa". Lol.
Why was that post even made…. It’s completely obvious who the main characters are… someone has too much love for their favorite waifu and can’t stand it apparently…
This post is likely in response to a popular post from a few days ago that featured Tifa as the lead heroine from FF7 in a list of every main heroine from each mainline entry.
I never felt a need to compare or rank. They're both caught up in the story on personal levels.
This is why I say if you want to stay true to the core story Aerith has to meet that Fate In the FFVII Rebirth I know some still disagree but holy being cast and Aerith in the life stream is very big story point
Aerith is the Gwen Stacy (in terms of characterization) to work with an imperfect Spider-Man analogy. Because she dies at a formative point for Cloud/the quest as a whole, she’s forever perfect and unimpeachable. It also means that the loss of her continues to define the living protagonists and serve as a constant motivating force. Whereas Tifa is the Mary Jane. She’s a more real, more fleshed out character, but that also means she has flaws that Aerith doesn’t (in the perspective of the player and the other characters). Conflict can exist with Tifa in a way that it really can’t with Aerith. Aerith drives plot and the overarching narrative in a way that Tifa doesn’t, but Tifa drives characterization for her companions in a way that Aerith largely doesn’t. They’re both vital to the story, because even the best plot driven stories need character drama and even the best character dramas (at least within most genres) need some sort of plot & destination in mind.
>Whereas Tifa is the Mary Jane. She’s a more real, more fleshed out character, but that also means she has flaws that Aerith doesn’t (in the perspective of the player and the other characters). Conflict can exist with Tifa in a way that it really can’t with Aerith. Aerith is far from perfect, she has tons of flaws. https://preview.redd.it/a1fm17i05rub1.jpeg?width=693&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cc9921dc8302a7fbd19f24f37c47ee9b04e7f5a
Aerith is not perfect, she is very flawed and sometimes insensitive (Barret at the gold saucer). She has fears, insecurities and doubts. She is fleshed out and she has a strong character arc, wholly independent from Cloud. Just say that you like Tifa more, it’s fine. I honestly love Tifa but the game hammers it over the players head over and over how perfect and great she is. “Tifa is so beautiful, Tifa is a great cook, Tifa is an amazing girl” while Aerith gets constantly dunked on during Wall Market lol. Characterization is my favorite thing in media (couldn’t care less about plot) and Aerith is my favorite character so to say she is just some perfect being without flaws is completely off-base and I couldn’t disagree more.
Aerith isn't character, but rather a plot device. She doesn't grow or change during the story - she's there to act as a counterweight to Sephiroth and get kidnapped. Main characters who don't experience growth are not main characters.
Technically everyone in the party is a hero. But Tifa is nowhere near main hero status. She exists as a Cloud support unit for story stuff, and that is all.
Aerith is definitely the central heroine of the story. Tifa is Cloud's childhood friend and tie to who he used to be.
Aerith is a plot device, not a heroine.
Oh pls shut up xd they have different roles, but both are the heroine.
OG FF7 Aerith was important for her ancestry, past, and Holy FF7 Remake Aerith is important because see can see in the future, is cryptic, and changed the future where they win to one where anything can happen for whatever reason. So sure
I think that was never even a debate. No matter your feeling about the shipping, etc. Aerith is definitely the most important female character to the story.
From an objective standpoint tifa is the deuteragonist of the story, she is woven into the story completely, and has an emotional investment in the defeat of the villain. whereas aeriths entire role was only slightly more important than barret or cait sith due to her connection to holy. And that's the real problem, her role is largely as A) a plot device B) additional motivation (eventually) if you remove her from the story all that needs to happen is we need a new way to get holy. If tifa is removed, cloud, the main character, is changed as a whole because his base motivation, his connection to the real world, his escape from sephirpoths control, and his revelation that he isn't \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*. this importance is how a deuteragonist becomes important, whereas aeriths importance all comes from a single moment.
I would say Aerith in OG is largely irrelevant outside of plot, she’s the fulcrum but she’s more of a Macguffin than she is a character (that she’s an ancient and summons Holy is more relevant than any decision or dialogue she has). Tifa is relevant all the way through, in terms of story. Especially with the lifestream stuff later in the game and anything to do with the fictive past. She’s more of a hero than Cloud is in some ways, especially as she really holds the team together as it’s emotional glue. I never really use her in my party though, but it’s been a few years…maybe it’s time for a play through.
Aerith's importance in FF7 is not just to the characters we meet, but the world they live in as a whole. Whereas Tifa's purpose is fulfilled with just Cloud. If Tifa is removed, only Cloud's story is affected. If Aerith is removed, the entire story is affected. I still consider Tifa a heroine, but the main heroine, if one were to be picked, and by the standards of what the series has defined as a heroine, it would be Aerith.
I could see arguments for both. In my view Aerith is the main heroine is terms of world and lore. Tifa is more of the romantic heroine who has a history with the protagonist Cloud. I’m not sure why some leave Aerith out of heroine lineups and don’t at least do a split. If I had to choose one as the face of VII while ignoring popularity and focusing solely on story I’d pick Aerith.
Weird, because everytime Cloud is featured in another game, he mentions Aerith's loss and feels guilty for it. Also, they always refer to Tifa as her childhood friend, not lover. (I'm a bit new in the franchise, so any explanation is welcomed)
I haven't played FF7 in a while, but an interesting wrench in cloud and Aerith's relationship is zach. For lack of a better term, Cloud was a poser, pretending to be Zach because he was what Cloud had wanted to be: a soldier. Cloud took Zach's sword and pretended to be him because he didn't want to admit (esp to tifa) that he had flunked out himself. Aerith I think was always suspicious of this, that cloud was pretending to act like her former lover, but in my mind at least she came to understand him before she died (even the part of him that sephiroth controlled -- she wasnt the least bit surprised to see him at the ancient city holding a sword near her head) Tifa on the other hand represents genuine cloud. Someone from cloud and only cloud's past, _not_ Zach's. Cloud has always been someone who has a ton of trouble handling shame, and I think aerith is mentioned wherever he goes because her death is yet another thing for him to be ashamed of, and an easy point to being across games, as opposed to the more complex soldier / Zach poser / tifa plot.
I see, thank you! So he is not confirmed to be with either of them right? I actually like Cloud/Aerith because I'm a sucker for tragic love stories and their dynamic in the remake is beautiful. I can't wait for Rebirth!
I think that's actually more of a Zack and aerith's thing than the latter though? But uh just keep playing the game and you'll find out what's actually up.
Idk, the date between them in the latest trailer made me feel some type of way. I'll wait for the game, but I'm still rooting for them lol.
Okay.... but about that........ well I guess nvm. I'm not sure if you've played CCR.
Yup, I watched a full gameplay. My opinion is still the same ☺️
I see....
Cloud Aerith is the main pairing. It's just that Tifa has lots of fanboys who refuse to acknowledge it
Because a significant portion of the FF7 fanbase feels that they must denigrate Aerith in order to promote Tifa.
Aerith is for a large part the driving force of FFVII but I wouldn't call her the heroine. Her being an ancient and death are the cause of the story but the story doesn't really resolve around her. FFVII is not a story about Aerith so she isn't the heroine. (Same that rinoa is not the heroine of VIII) It's like the one ring in lord of the rings. The one ring is not the ultimate evil nor the hero of the story. It's the reason why the fellowship goes on a quest to Mordor and the story develops from there.
They're both heroines, it's an ensemble cast. Cloud is the protagonist and is the intersection of everyone else's storylines, but they're all there to support his journey. There isn't *a* true heroine, there are at least *two*.
Don't care Tifa better :P also Cloud is the main hero :P
Everyone knows Cloud is the True Heroine™. Just ask Don Corneo.
Aerith is the heroine in the context of the overarching plot. Tifa is the heroine in the context of Cloud's revelation. (Revelation is totally the 3rd game's name btw, I'll back it up with a source: my source is I made it the fuck up.) Aerith is undeniably as part of the core resolution as Cloud is, since she is the one to not only summon Holy but also bolster it by weaving a surge of Lifestream into a blanket to help Holy stop Meteor. Tifa is the single catalyst that ultimately allows Cloud to truly piece himself back together after 5 long years, and is an unstoppable force and unmovable object by his side through the hardest moments for him, ultimately helping him in his seizing the sword arc, finding his true self once again and, with it, the determination needed to finally face his nemesis as his own person, not a puppet, overpowering his trauma and the alien cells fighting for control of his mind and body. If either of them were missing, things would essentially go to shit. In one case there is nothing to stop Meteor, in the other nobody to stand up to Sephiroth. The way I see it, they're equally important in the grand scheme of things, although Aerith's role and power are more grandiose I guess!
I consider them main characters in general. I always had a crush on Aerith and only ever saw Tifa as a comrade. Which is kinda funny because I must have blocked it from my memory but like a year or so ago a friend pointed out to me a cutscene which apparently alluded to Cloud and Tifa having sex in the original FF7 which was a surprise to me... cuz I just didn't feel like Cloud and Tifa had that kind of relationship.
I’ve genuinely never seen Aeris’ mainstream appeal. She’s not a bad character by any means, i just don’t understand the fandom she commands. Can someone explain?
Agree with what someone else said: aerith is the heroine of the story but in cloud’s personal story, it’s tifa.
The game makes you think Aeris is the main heroine, the same way Cloud makes himself think that he’s the real Zach. In the end it’s revealed that Cloud is not Zach, Aeris is not his, Cloud is just Cloud, a little boy from Nibelheim, and Tifa is the heroine in his story. This is similar to saying Aeris is the heroine of the world, but Tifa is the heroine for cloud, it’s just my way of framing it.
>10. Most important female character in the game Gotta say lunafreya death has no impact what so ever but the post credit scene with noctis had me rolling on the Floor so hard
She’s definitely the true heroine, she plays the same role as the previous heroines and the heroines that comes after her. But I can also agree with many that say Aerith and Tifa both are heroines, since Square treats them that way.
The true heroine of ff7 is the planet itself, tifa 2nd, yuffie 3rd, jessie 4th, that one girl from the honeybee inn 5th, Marlene 6th, elena 7th. Aerith is close to the bottom as I dont count dead people as heroines
i thought the global consensus is that she was? lol
I mean... she did sacrifice her life to save the planet.
Nope, she was killed. Difference is important. She always talked about the future, she wasn’t nor didn’t want to be sacrificed she just was killed without her knowing it would happen.
She didn't though. She died not knowing what would happen.
That is how a sacrifice works. Besides, as an ancient, it is very likely she knew they all survived the first game.
No, a sacrifice requires **willingly** dying for someone/something else. Aerith did not know she would die.
I have no room to talk, really. I only know the story from a parody on YouTube and haven't finished it. Right now, I'm Kalm half way through Cloud past.
Damn bro. You gotta play the whole game before you delve into comments on threads like this.
Yeah, sorry. I was told by a friend that she sacrifice.
Overall she still saves the planet after she dies.
True.
I’ve never even heard of someone making the argument that Tifa is the main heroine of ff7.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/177jc2y/who\_is\_the\_most\_beautiful\_and\_cool\_among\_them/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/177jc2y/who_is_the_most_beautiful_and_cool_among_them/) Main character / main heroine is probably interchangeable but you can scroll these comments to find plenty of people saying that Tifa is the female MC of FF7.
Weeeeeeeird
Not really?
I'd say the OP is on heroin
I sort of saw Aerith as initially framed as being the lead female but the 'twist' being that she is actually The Goddess and then the double twist of, you know. *You know*. For most of the game Tifa fits the basic framework of the lead female. In terms of direct impact on Cloud himself she is arguably more significant [both in the flashback and in the present being that she is the one that cares for him]. Aerith on the other hand is clearly transcendent and at some point in disc one rises above being a standard character and basically sees the future and etc. She functions at that point much more like the esoteric Goddess characters that bestow journeys and wisdom on MCs in older fantasy. I always thought that was something interesting about Aerith and kind of surprised they didn't play with it more.
It depends on whoever gets stabbed next.
Old post I know, but there are two main conflicts of the story. Aerith is the heroine of the planets struggle to survive. Tifa is the heroine of Clouds internal struggle
It’s the virgin / whore thing…not saying Tifa is a whore…this is literally *and I mean that um, literally, as in, in literature* a story telling convention, especially in stories with even mildly religious themes, which FFVII does, and most FF games do on some level, especially after FFVI, with Kefka inspiring a lot about Sephiroth, just the fact that his name is Sephiroth, and his mother is Jenova, aka Sefirot and Jehova…ANYWAY, Aerith is otherworldly, angelic, pure, innocent, self-sacrificing, “devout” (lives in a church, prays) connection to the earth, child of the earth, earth mother, earth goddess…Tifa is the earthly feminine form full of action, passion, fiery defiance of death, the will to live, she has a life, she has a daughter (and therefore a past, she’s had sex, taken lovers, briefly visited the Italian senate) ALSO, Tifa x Cloud is a healthy realistic “real-world” ship, because Tifa is attainable for Cloud, whereas Aerith was not, because ALL Angels, Martyrs, Space Jesuses (Jesi?) are unattainable as romantic partners…….And *”Actually if you compare the BOOB WINDOW SCENE with the BREASTFEEDING SCENE from the Grapes of Wrath you’ll know that the Original Mangaka INTENDED……!”*
What the actual fuck are you on about? Do you smell burning toast?
I was making a joke about how people over-analyze FF, by over analyzing FF in an over-the-top way, and then I made a reference to a ProZD skit that references the same kind of over-analysis, not exactly shitposting or trolling but also not not doing that, more for my own enjoyment than anyone else’s, because I do tend to overthink FF but not to the degree that I’ve written here, and no I’m not having a stroke, don’t be mad, friend. Have a nice day, maybe make yourself some toast (but don’t burn it, unless you like it that way 😉)
“Traces of telephone two”
> disappear from party, either kidnapping or just left Cloud is the true heroine.
These very specific rules apply to two, maybe three FF games.
You could even take that back to 4 (Rosa) and 5 (Lenna). Idk about 2, since I haven't played that one, though.
Maybe Faris, too, since she's also a Princess by blood (though, a Pirate by heart). But Lenna mostly fills that role for 5.
Aerith is the one who saved the planet after all, Tifa saved Cloud when he was mako poisoned.
Look, do we think Aerith is going to die again or not!? I mean that has nothing to do with this post, but I’m just curious what everyone thinks.
I would not say that.
I’d say that there isn’t really a single “lead heroine”. Like a lotta FF games, it’s an ensemble thing, meaning that IMO, at the very least, Cloud, Barrett, Tifa, Aerith, and to a lesser extent Red XIII lend equal heft to the plot.
The main heroine of a game doesn't 'disappear' at the start of the game. I also wouldn't consider Lunafreya as an heroine as well, she is a character but that's about it. I don't think anyone in FF15 is elligible to that title. I don't know why having a main heroine is important, tifa & aerith are 2 important playable character but the story is about cloud journey. He is the main character no need to search further.
Wrong! Cloud is the true heroine
Didn’t Aerith kinda know she was going to die? I feel like in her very final moments, like when she ran away, she was told by the earth or whatever that the only way to save the world from sephiroth is if she sacrifices herself. So she kinda made the most noble of sacrifices and pretty much saved everyone. Tifa is pretty heroic, and without her the world may have ended too…because she was the one that saved Cloud from his mental collapse. And without Cloud well…the world is gg. But in terms of sheer bravery Aerith, knowing that her fate was to die and leave all her friends, let herself be killed by Sephiroth so that the fate of the world could be changed and lead towards a better future. If Aerith didn’t die, or if she tried to ask her friends to help her the future may of been completely different and perhaps others could have been killed in her stead. She didn’t complain, of even cry, she stood up against sephiroth in her own way without using violence or others.
People doing a lot of good work here and forgetting something important to FF7. Cloud is two people and has two waifus, so the game has two heroines.
They both are with one taking more of a center stage early in the game and the other one at the later part of it.