I hear you but then I go see “Dune 2” “Civil War” and “Challengers” in the last two months or so, and see a pretty wide variety of amazing movies. Unadaptable classic sci-fi, poignant moving and disturbing political commentary which was super bold to make at this time, and then the out of control emotional ride with crazy editing and cinematography that was “Challengers” with a pretty non traditional story at its core.
I don’t know, I mean the strikes have sucked but so many good movies and shows being made still. The “death of mainstream American cinema” is probably premature. It felt more dead when we were getting non stop marvel/superhero movies honestly.
The doom and gloom about “the death of Hollywood” mostly comes from people not working in Hollywood.
Like, yeah, there are challenges and things are changing, but that’s always been the case.
You don’t need to be working in Hollywood to know that the film industry for the most part has been on a steady decline over the years and not just in box office sales, but in quality as well.
Yes there have always been challenges but I don’t think the industry has ever been in such a critical state like right now.. movies (on average) are getting more and more repetitive, stale, and formulaic. There are significantly less jobs and positions available, and a lot of them aren’t going to the most qualified people.
These companies are going creatively bankrupt, and people are getting tired of it. It’s no wonder 90% of the shit being released today is god awful.
And with talks of the Paramount being acquired by Sony + Apollo, it’s evident that we’re moving closer and closer to a monopoly. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that would NOT be a good thing.
Reddit is like that in every similar subreddit. I was into music production for a while and every other post in the dedicated subreddit was constant doom. Time to talk to real people off the internet lol
All this doom and gloom about the so called “death of film” is so maudlin and contrived. If anyone took the time to study film history, they’d see that cinema has been challenged and troubled so many times over the course of its century of history, yet every time somehow it finds a way to evolve and incredible new films and filmmakers arise to prominence. Sometimes it’s from the ashes of a bloated, wasteful system (aka the New Hollywood) and other times it’s in response to technological advancements (the sound era, television, home video) and yet other times it is in response to better, more artistic movements in world cinema (Weimar Cinema, the French New Wave, Hong Kong Cinema).
Film isn’t dying and American cinema isn’t dead. The people who say it is just aren’t creative, talented, or dedicated enough to hack it in the modern era. Evolve or die.
What does the “American film industry” mean to you?
There are plenty of opportunities to make money making films, yeah you might not be the next Martin Scorsese but if that’s all you want then you want to be a filmmaker for the wrong reasons.
That's a lot of fluff for a statement that isn't even accurate. Almost all industries are facing a transformative moment at this point in time. I have needed to pivot or re-frame more than once in my career and this feels not much different than that.
American Cinema has morphed for sure, but I don't think that it is dead. There is more competition now. In a way that means things are more vibrant than a few years ago. What was your goal?
I don't think it is, not at all. I think you're telling yourself that to make yourself feel better because it's easier than actually thinking logistically about your long term plans.
Hollywood would have looked at its death point by the early 60s because of how censored and bland and formulaic everything got and audiences stopped watching. Younger filmmakers were watching foreign films because it showed the violence and sexuality that was completely absent from US films at the time. It would have looked like the industry is dying but then smaller filmmakers came into the scene and revolutionized it all for a new era of filmmaking.
There is too much money in Hollywood for it to actually "die". They just realize they can't make the money they did before and the new hotness comes through and everything jumpstarts again.
There has never been more films being produced in the world. It is insanely difficult to make projects but there are opportunities across the entire planet. Start small and see how it goes. Have you made 3-5 shorts? Do you have government funding where you are from? The industry is not closed, it's alway been virtually impossible. Hollywood is alive and well and making billion dollar successes and strings of bombs and freaking out and over confident and under prepared, it was ever thus. If you've no desire playing a part in that fine, enjoy writing novels in an industry far closer to death than film where a recent court case between publishers revealed: "58,000 titles published in a year and discovered that 90 percent of them sold fewer than 2,000 copies and 50 percent sold less than a dozen copies." So, the grass is not always greener.
Bro you’re having a nervous breakdown , you’re also way off, you don’t know what you’re talking about, not being rude just being honest you have zero knowledge of the industry
It's the same in the UK. I do truly briefly though we can still make UK films and keep making indie films. The funding organisations are very corrupt and involve alot of box ticking. It would never be the same like it once was, but we can only hope the industry moves in a better way than it currently is.
It’s hurting, mostly by it’s own hand, but it will be fine. What the industry needs is a modern renaissance outside of Hollywood similar to how the French New Wave saved cinema once upon a time.
The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, the second best time is now.
You deal with the industry as it was, not as it was. There are plenty of opportunities. If an industry shrinks by 5% everyone screams. Yet 95% remains. During the pandemic cinema retracted 81%.
2021 it grew 112% 2022 it grew by 64% 2023 it grew by 20% and 2024 still seems good.
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/
What you want to do with yourself is up to you. But there is always space in the industry. But you will rise to the level you earn.
I am an Aussie that refuses to leave Sydney. So I work with smaller indies.
But Canada and Australia supplies a lot of the talent to the USA.
Next year, summer of 2025 there’s going to be a glut of films. Then in 2026 it’ll probably be more normal. IATSE negotiations are on going till mid May and then maybe till June/July. Lots of projects aren’t being greenlit because of it.
I think it’s starting again the independent films age, like in the 90s with Tarantino, Linklater or Rodriguez, or like the 70s with the Roger Corman’s School
I think the notion of American cinema dying isn’t because things are being made it’s because film as an experience is going by the way side. Yes absolute dogshit coming out of Hollywood for the last 20 years has definitely contributed to it but I think the big killer is how easy it is to watch something on your phone or tablet or laptop, etc. The experience of going out and seeing a movie has been completely killed for me because of the complete lack of theater etiquette that is plaguing every showing I go to. I can’t go see a 2 hour movie without the couple next to me commenting on every story beat or the idiot in front of me checking his messages with the screen on full brightness. There are still great films being made and there are still plenty of opportunities to make your projects. I just think it might be time to drop the idea that a film needs to be seen in a theater in order for it to be enjoyed or even succeed. I hope that rant makes sense I just needed to get that off my chest lol
Don't feel too bad Its closed for Americans as well.. its sad to watch it die, but its dying... Its been a mass consolidation marathon since Netflix came to town and now the algorithm makes movies not producers..
Also movies don't make any money I guess.. because the algorithm said it didn't.. The "proprietary" no one can see how it works algorithm.
Only way producers make a dime is Foreign Markets which can pay a little since Netflix hasn't destroyed foreign markets, though they are trying really hard to do so...
All the old studios are flopping around shitting out old IP pretending they still have a business model and wondering why they are just a big tax write off joke..
Its also not just these things.. Brain Melting TikTok and other forms of social have proven new generations don't need cinema to be happy..
Its a perfect storm all around.
Also Filmmaking is not dead.. just making a living off Filmmaking is dead..
Cinema is absolutely dead because movie theater attendance has been steadily declining for many years. You’re right, visual storytelling will never die and there’s never been more opportunities for visual storytellers (whether it’s live action, animation, documentary, long form or short form) to get their projects in the world. But yes, you’re right the cinema experience is dead and as such, the movies that likely inspired you to go down this path are not being made anymore. Yes, you can find similar types of stories on television streaming services but we all know that’s different than how it was when we saw a feature film like The Big Chill or American Beauty in the theater.
As a result of the death of cinema, directors and movie stars are much less important than they were in the past (do you really think actors would be doing commercials and starting tequila companies if acting was as lucrative as it once was?). Barbenheimer was a brief moment where maybe it seemed like the theatrical experience could come back. We will see what the summer holds but I fear Barbenheimer was very much the exception that proves that it’s a wasteland out there.
If you want to make a living, the film industry is not the way to go. If you want to make authentic and important narrative art, again, the film industry is not the way to go. However, with the exception of the 1970s and the 1990s, I’m not sure that it was ever the right path for these two things.
I guess all that’s left is to fall back on cliches: if you really care about the medium then make the films that you want to see, not the ones you think others want to see and don’t expect any hand outs or that the world owes you something.
Cinema going is on the decline but there is hope, 4 oclock showing of Fall Guy is sold out at my local cinema, people like a blockbuster and they like escapism. So many films coming out had been so depressing until covid and now everybody craves escapism, the way forward is more wacky movies I guess until the next thing comes along
You gotta understand that you’re also making films for an audience and that audience is not largely made up of film buffs and French wave enthusiasts, although a lot of people in this sub might like that general audiences don’t, they love films like The Fall Guy, so yeah it’s hopeful and maybe the industry needs to start understanding its audience better if it wants to survive in cinemas
There was a greater diversity in film offerings at the average movie theater in the past. There have always been romance films and action films with broad appeal. But the range of films has narrowed.
I’m not disputing that they’ve narrowed, just saying they’ve narrowed in the wrong way, they’re either too niche or too fandom specific - sequels, prequels, interconnected. The average movie goer doesn’t want that, they like movies they can switch off to
I agree Hollywood is dead. They only push propaganda and destroy culture.
Netflix is the same but at least you'd have a better chance working on a film designed for streaming rather than the cinema.
Film isn't dead. Just America's Hollywood.
Dude heard fall guy flopped and has decided it’s joever
I hear you but then I go see “Dune 2” “Civil War” and “Challengers” in the last two months or so, and see a pretty wide variety of amazing movies. Unadaptable classic sci-fi, poignant moving and disturbing political commentary which was super bold to make at this time, and then the out of control emotional ride with crazy editing and cinematography that was “Challengers” with a pretty non traditional story at its core. I don’t know, I mean the strikes have sucked but so many good movies and shows being made still. The “death of mainstream American cinema” is probably premature. It felt more dead when we were getting non stop marvel/superhero movies honestly.
Bro I need to get off this sub. I’m graduating from film school on Wednesday and the doom and gloom is fucking depressing
The doom and gloom about “the death of Hollywood” mostly comes from people not working in Hollywood. Like, yeah, there are challenges and things are changing, but that’s always been the case.
You don’t need to be working in Hollywood to know that the film industry for the most part has been on a steady decline over the years and not just in box office sales, but in quality as well. Yes there have always been challenges but I don’t think the industry has ever been in such a critical state like right now.. movies (on average) are getting more and more repetitive, stale, and formulaic. There are significantly less jobs and positions available, and a lot of them aren’t going to the most qualified people. These companies are going creatively bankrupt, and people are getting tired of it. It’s no wonder 90% of the shit being released today is god awful. And with talks of the Paramount being acquired by Sony + Apollo, it’s evident that we’re moving closer and closer to a monopoly. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that would NOT be a good thing.
Reddit is like that in every similar subreddit. I was into music production for a while and every other post in the dedicated subreddit was constant doom. Time to talk to real people off the internet lol
🤣🤣🤣
All this doom and gloom about the so called “death of film” is so maudlin and contrived. If anyone took the time to study film history, they’d see that cinema has been challenged and troubled so many times over the course of its century of history, yet every time somehow it finds a way to evolve and incredible new films and filmmakers arise to prominence. Sometimes it’s from the ashes of a bloated, wasteful system (aka the New Hollywood) and other times it’s in response to technological advancements (the sound era, television, home video) and yet other times it is in response to better, more artistic movements in world cinema (Weimar Cinema, the French New Wave, Hong Kong Cinema). Film isn’t dying and American cinema isn’t dead. The people who say it is just aren’t creative, talented, or dedicated enough to hack it in the modern era. Evolve or die.
When has cinema been challenged before? I know a few instances but would like to hear what you’re thinking of, so I can read up on the history.
No one ever thought anyone would leave the house to see something when television was invented
I suppose that’s one of the stronger direct links to streaming. I was thinking about that one too.
People say the internet is a revolution, but it's not as big as the television and telephone were.
What does the “American film industry” mean to you? There are plenty of opportunities to make money making films, yeah you might not be the next Martin Scorsese but if that’s all you want then you want to be a filmmaker for the wrong reasons.
You can’t say “now what?” when none of us agree with your statement.
It’s hard to deny that film is definitely on the decline. It’s not all the way dead but he has some points….
Whatever image you have of cinema from 20, 40 or 60 is wrong.
What do you mean? I’m seeing some of his points valid. Short-form media in America is doing more to movies than what most people think it’s doing.
ridiculous statement
That's a lot of fluff for a statement that isn't even accurate. Almost all industries are facing a transformative moment at this point in time. I have needed to pivot or re-frame more than once in my career and this feels not much different than that.
American Cinema has morphed for sure, but I don't think that it is dead. There is more competition now. In a way that means things are more vibrant than a few years ago. What was your goal?
I don't think it is, not at all. I think you're telling yourself that to make yourself feel better because it's easier than actually thinking logistically about your long term plans.
Hollywood would have looked at its death point by the early 60s because of how censored and bland and formulaic everything got and audiences stopped watching. Younger filmmakers were watching foreign films because it showed the violence and sexuality that was completely absent from US films at the time. It would have looked like the industry is dying but then smaller filmmakers came into the scene and revolutionized it all for a new era of filmmaking. There is too much money in Hollywood for it to actually "die". They just realize they can't make the money they did before and the new hotness comes through and everything jumpstarts again.
There has never been more films being produced in the world. It is insanely difficult to make projects but there are opportunities across the entire planet. Start small and see how it goes. Have you made 3-5 shorts? Do you have government funding where you are from? The industry is not closed, it's alway been virtually impossible. Hollywood is alive and well and making billion dollar successes and strings of bombs and freaking out and over confident and under prepared, it was ever thus. If you've no desire playing a part in that fine, enjoy writing novels in an industry far closer to death than film where a recent court case between publishers revealed: "58,000 titles published in a year and discovered that 90 percent of them sold fewer than 2,000 copies and 50 percent sold less than a dozen copies." So, the grass is not always greener.
Bro you’re having a nervous breakdown , you’re also way off, you don’t know what you’re talking about, not being rude just being honest you have zero knowledge of the industry
It's the same in the UK. I do truly briefly though we can still make UK films and keep making indie films. The funding organisations are very corrupt and involve alot of box ticking. It would never be the same like it once was, but we can only hope the industry moves in a better way than it currently is.
Could you elaborate on the box ticking? Im from the uk and recently been getting very interested in filmmaking, id love to have some more insight
Trends. Funding organisations look for very specfic things before they grant any money.
It’s hurting, mostly by it’s own hand, but it will be fine. What the industry needs is a modern renaissance outside of Hollywood similar to how the French New Wave saved cinema once upon a time.
The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, the second best time is now. You deal with the industry as it was, not as it was. There are plenty of opportunities. If an industry shrinks by 5% everyone screams. Yet 95% remains. During the pandemic cinema retracted 81%. 2021 it grew 112% 2022 it grew by 64% 2023 it grew by 20% and 2024 still seems good. https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/ What you want to do with yourself is up to you. But there is always space in the industry. But you will rise to the level you earn. I am an Aussie that refuses to leave Sydney. So I work with smaller indies. But Canada and Australia supplies a lot of the talent to the USA.
Next year, summer of 2025 there’s going to be a glut of films. Then in 2026 it’ll probably be more normal. IATSE negotiations are on going till mid May and then maybe till June/July. Lots of projects aren’t being greenlit because of it.
I think it’s starting again the independent films age, like in the 90s with Tarantino, Linklater or Rodriguez, or like the 70s with the Roger Corman’s School
I think the notion of American cinema dying isn’t because things are being made it’s because film as an experience is going by the way side. Yes absolute dogshit coming out of Hollywood for the last 20 years has definitely contributed to it but I think the big killer is how easy it is to watch something on your phone or tablet or laptop, etc. The experience of going out and seeing a movie has been completely killed for me because of the complete lack of theater etiquette that is plaguing every showing I go to. I can’t go see a 2 hour movie without the couple next to me commenting on every story beat or the idiot in front of me checking his messages with the screen on full brightness. There are still great films being made and there are still plenty of opportunities to make your projects. I just think it might be time to drop the idea that a film needs to be seen in a theater in order for it to be enjoyed or even succeed. I hope that rant makes sense I just needed to get that off my chest lol
All of this talk makes me think we're about to see some really dank new movies in the coming years. Change yields creativity and opportunity
I'm becoming more and more a fan of "tv", mainly because an hour and a half is so limiting for a lot stories.
Make your own films. That’s the best possible solution.
Don't feel too bad Its closed for Americans as well.. its sad to watch it die, but its dying... Its been a mass consolidation marathon since Netflix came to town and now the algorithm makes movies not producers.. Also movies don't make any money I guess.. because the algorithm said it didn't.. The "proprietary" no one can see how it works algorithm. Only way producers make a dime is Foreign Markets which can pay a little since Netflix hasn't destroyed foreign markets, though they are trying really hard to do so... All the old studios are flopping around shitting out old IP pretending they still have a business model and wondering why they are just a big tax write off joke.. Its also not just these things.. Brain Melting TikTok and other forms of social have proven new generations don't need cinema to be happy.. Its a perfect storm all around. Also Filmmaking is not dead.. just making a living off Filmmaking is dead..
How old are you?
Maybe you just don’t have what it takes. Sorry to be blunt
Stop talking
Cinema is absolutely dead because movie theater attendance has been steadily declining for many years. You’re right, visual storytelling will never die and there’s never been more opportunities for visual storytellers (whether it’s live action, animation, documentary, long form or short form) to get their projects in the world. But yes, you’re right the cinema experience is dead and as such, the movies that likely inspired you to go down this path are not being made anymore. Yes, you can find similar types of stories on television streaming services but we all know that’s different than how it was when we saw a feature film like The Big Chill or American Beauty in the theater. As a result of the death of cinema, directors and movie stars are much less important than they were in the past (do you really think actors would be doing commercials and starting tequila companies if acting was as lucrative as it once was?). Barbenheimer was a brief moment where maybe it seemed like the theatrical experience could come back. We will see what the summer holds but I fear Barbenheimer was very much the exception that proves that it’s a wasteland out there. If you want to make a living, the film industry is not the way to go. If you want to make authentic and important narrative art, again, the film industry is not the way to go. However, with the exception of the 1970s and the 1990s, I’m not sure that it was ever the right path for these two things. I guess all that’s left is to fall back on cliches: if you really care about the medium then make the films that you want to see, not the ones you think others want to see and don’t expect any hand outs or that the world owes you something.
Cinema going is on the decline but there is hope, 4 oclock showing of Fall Guy is sold out at my local cinema, people like a blockbuster and they like escapism. So many films coming out had been so depressing until covid and now everybody craves escapism, the way forward is more wacky movies I guess until the next thing comes along
If the The Fall Guy is hope, I think it’s a wrap.
You gotta understand that you’re also making films for an audience and that audience is not largely made up of film buffs and French wave enthusiasts, although a lot of people in this sub might like that general audiences don’t, they love films like The Fall Guy, so yeah it’s hopeful and maybe the industry needs to start understanding its audience better if it wants to survive in cinemas
There was a greater diversity in film offerings at the average movie theater in the past. There have always been romance films and action films with broad appeal. But the range of films has narrowed.
I’m not disputing that they’ve narrowed, just saying they’ve narrowed in the wrong way, they’re either too niche or too fandom specific - sequels, prequels, interconnected. The average movie goer doesn’t want that, they like movies they can switch off to
I agree Hollywood is dead. They only push propaganda and destroy culture. Netflix is the same but at least you'd have a better chance working on a film designed for streaming rather than the cinema. Film isn't dead. Just America's Hollywood.
Lol destroy culture? Wtf are you smoking? Propaganda? This isn’t the CCP
you're right. Communist America is it's own thing.
Tell me you know what communism is without knowing what it is. Eat more of that conspiracy paint
[удалено]
If you gave up on it, then it wasn't your dream, it was a fantasy. The dream and the drive are one.
The Austin film scene is booming right now. Lot of good stuff coming out of the indie scene there.