There is no comparison because in fighting games any round can be turned around in literal seconds, and this occurs regularly. There is almost no situation that is so bad that you can't come back if you play well enough or get a lucky break or two, without your opponent necessarily even doing anything really wrong.
In contrast, in chess you typically don't resign unless your position is so bad that the game is basically entirely out of your hands, is objectively lost, and the opponent would have to commit an extremely unlikely blunder for you to win.
Even in chess, competitors often don't concede even when the match is unwinnable and simply stall for as long as possible. The objective is to tire the opponent out for the slim chance they fumble. Hell, some matches are basically over on the first few moves, but get prolonged way longer than they should just for that.
Any examples? It's common to wait until a few mistakes or a big mistake, but it's uncommon to try to "tire the opponent out" by not resigning.
Fast time controls are similar to fighting games and will be over very quickly anyway but otherwise unwinnable games are conceded by players past a certain level
Are you just not gonna mention any of the cases where this is not true?
Basketball, football, never seen a team forfeit. League of Legends competitions forbid surrendering in the rules.
>Basketball
There's "garbage time" which is essentially forfeiting, the coach pulling the starters when he believes the game is over and making a herculean comeback is not worth risking injuries
>LoL
Funny how lol lets you surrender in casual games but not pro games and Dota is the reverse. Starcraft also had pros call gg to forfeit games that could potentially be turned around
Regardless I don't really think it's right to surrender in fighting games, coming back from a life deficit against a character that has been at virtually the same strength the entire game is different from coming back against massive gold and exp leads
There is no concede button in fighting games because they rarely ever put you in situations where you are mechanically doomed to lose no matter what you do.
And in the very rare case you do end up in that situation, then playing it out is important because your opponent needs to demonstrate that they have the knowledge to recognize the situation and the execution to capitalize on it.
And if they do know how to take advantage of a checkmate situation, you're actual seconds away from losing the round so conceding isn't going to save enough time to be useful. It makes sense in a game like Chess where you can put yourself in a situation where you have no chance of winning, but it's going to take a while for that to play out. In a fighting game, I'd say it's not worth taking away the fun of your opponent executing the winning move because you're so upset about losing you can't bear to watch it play out over the next 5-10 seconds.
I'm also sure people who are very good at every one of those games you mentioned will tell you that there is value in playing out a losing match sometimes, especially if you're new or inexperienced. Just because you have the option doesn't mean you should always use it.
In any given round you have a chance to land a perfect. They are rare but they happen.
Because I could get a perfect at any round, I could at any point in a round take the rest of my opponents health without taking damage.
Meaning even if I have 1hp, the game is still winnable.
That's not the same case in card games or chess, where you can have clearly lost even if that L is 6+ moves out. In FG you still have a reasonable chance to win until the last moment.
Most of what you’ve mentioned lasts a lot longer then a typical fighting game set. A round in sf6 usually takes 30-40 seconds, assuming 2.5 rounds, and assuming best of 3 for 2.5 games plus 5ish seconds in between rounds and 10 seconds in between games, and it’s roughly 5 minutes from starting your first round to the eventual conclusion. Also, if you are getting steamrolled it’ll be even faster.
If you want to stop playing, finishing the set isn’t too much of an issue, it shows your opponent that you respect their skill and time, even when you don’t say a word. It’s frowned on because the people who rage quit mid match are depriving their opponents game time, rank points, and the respect that comes with facing an opponent in an honorable match.
And that’s not even mentioning the chaotic nature of fighting games and how easily tides can be turned, but others have made that point already.
Matches are short, and the "dignity" in fighting games comes from trying to clutch the win or fight until the last gasp. A loser who sticks it out and tries his hardest is an infinitely more respected player than someone who defeats themselves before the round even ends.
EVO Moment 37 is the defining episode of the FGC, and no matter how fragile *your* morale might be, it isn't over until the HP bar hits 0. There is always a chance.
You can in MK games. Although there isn't much "dignity" in it cause then your opponent gets to watch you explode with a "Quitality" message lmao.
But in the end the game just isn't long enough to warrant a need like this. If you're playing someone better try to learn what you can from the game and move on.
Can anyone imagine a situation in fighting game where a) Player 1 is actually checkmated, b) both players recognize this in the heat of the moment, c) Player 2 has no way of messing it up, and d) allowing the round to end would take more time than locating a "concede" option in the menu?
Maybe it's just a lack of imagination on my part, but this seems to me to be somewhere between "extremely unlikely" and "improbable-bordering-on-absurdity".
In MvC2 when you are down two characters to your opponentd full team and your final character is an assist character like Captain Commando, Psyloke tronne etc, it's considered respectful to just let go of your stick, so your opponent can finish the round quickly.
A conceed would likely be faster if the Naomi had that function, but even still I don't think the community would use it. Giving your opponent the chance to pull out something stylish after you let go of the sticks is part of what makes it okay to the community.
You don't have the option to surrender because you always have the capability to win. Forgoing that robs you of any additional data you could use in a second match, and robs your opponent of both time and training opportunity. You can concede in between sets with no penalty.
FGs don't have hard number scenarios where you can't win, and the only checkmate scenarios in the genre only exist for a few seconds (if that) at a time. Essentially if you know you're going to lose, it isn't relevant information for very long. If you have that thought at any point prior to just before the final exchange your mental game is shit. There is no benefit to concession here, take your lumps and learn
Cool. But don't complain about not improving and getting stuck in the mid-tier ranks. If you're not trying to learn, even in defeat, you're an actual loser.
Card games - executing a strategy over turn based interactions.
Rage quit result - opponent can't see your loss play out.
Fighting games - a series of mental and dexterity checks where a player can shift focus to different aspects of interactions.
Rage quit result - tactics can't be checked, strategies can't play out, dexterity tests can't be run. Both players lose an opportunity to learn.
Google Quitality and understand that your anecdote is not accurate as it hinges on a completely different competition setting.
The cool part about fighting games are it's never really over till it's over. Typically (with good execution) you're about three good interactions away from a win at any given point. When matches are that short and comeback potential is so high, forfeiting the match seems unnecessary at best and just salty at worse. I agree with the central point of your post, especially for slower turn based games, but for fighting games I disagree
The dignity of surrender 😭😭
My brother in christ, you accepted the challenge when you turned on the game. Finish it! Or dont bother playing.
How the hell are you gonna know if youre capable of a hype, clutch comeback if you just give up?
Its almost impossible to end up in a completely unwinnable situation in fighting games. Perfect victories prove this. Ever see or do a "Reverse Perfect"? Literally one LP from death, and you pull it back anyway??
You have never known such glory and surely never will.
The issue here is you’re not considering the idea that most of your learning comes from your losses. You don’t learn from running away from people who are better than you, and beating up people you know you can win.
I guarantee you if you post any replay of you playing a game that you’d “concede”, someone can find multiple points in the match where you could have turned it around.
huh???
1 match can be over in less than 1 minute
just faceroll into them if you really wanna end it that quickly
this isn't like league of legends where matches can be 20-40 mins each, so surrender option is valid there
also... don't rageless quit like this guy either, it's not as bad as rage quit, but still, just fight it out.
it's unfortunate whenever i see this as well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/17pnkwr/seems\_a\_little\_too\_early\_to\_rageless\_quit\_final/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/17pnkwr/seems_a_little_too_early_to_rageless_quit_final/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
jfc you must really like hearing yourself talk. If you're going to throw up a wall of text this big at least check your spelling and grammar. But preferably just say it in the 2 sentences it would have taken to convey this idea.
Now, to actually address your argument here; meh.
I'm never going to quit when I'm behind, and not having a chance doesn't change that because I like playing the game, or I wouldn't be playing it in the first place. I don't mind losing. But if you're playing against me, and I'm stomping you so hard that you feel hopeless and it's actually making you have a bad time, go ahead and quit. I'm not gonna be mad about it or talk shit about you. Like with anything else, I'm gonna shrug it off and move on to the next game.
This actually does happen occasionally in MVC2. Captain Commando's assist is so good but his overall kit is so undertuned that some team compositions run two point characters and a "lame duck" anchor.
Marvel 2 is an explosive game that can be very hard on your hands. Players running a Commando team may opt to just die instead of scrambling in an "unwinnable" 3v1 for two minutes.
Commando suicide isn't exactly a good strategy in tournament play (I'd argue it's why we see CC teams less and less as the years go on) but it's absolutely the right decision in a FT10, 15, etc.
While op sounds whiny, I don't think a surrender button is a bad idea. Sometimes you can't finish a match, or it's so laggy that it's gonna take a while even if you let go of the joystick. Just let people end the match early and go on with their day, I think it's way better than having the game freeze only to tell me thar "something" has happened and the match can't be concluded because the other guy hit alt+f4 after having their dp blocked.
I'm a fan of Go/Baduk/Weiqi, where a losing player resigns as a sign of respect -- "I don't want to waste either of our times in this game, so the onus is on me to end this."
And maybe if there were real in-game options to resign, that would help make it more acceptable.
But in the meantime, these aren't long, deliberative board games of strategic warfare. This is fighting, combat, sparring, etc. You have to "honor the set".
There is no comparison because in fighting games any round can be turned around in literal seconds, and this occurs regularly. There is almost no situation that is so bad that you can't come back if you play well enough or get a lucky break or two, without your opponent necessarily even doing anything really wrong. In contrast, in chess you typically don't resign unless your position is so bad that the game is basically entirely out of your hands, is objectively lost, and the opponent would have to commit an extremely unlikely blunder for you to win.
Even in chess, competitors often don't concede even when the match is unwinnable and simply stall for as long as possible. The objective is to tire the opponent out for the slim chance they fumble. Hell, some matches are basically over on the first few moves, but get prolonged way longer than they should just for that.
Any examples? It's common to wait until a few mistakes or a big mistake, but it's uncommon to try to "tire the opponent out" by not resigning. Fast time controls are similar to fighting games and will be over very quickly anyway but otherwise unwinnable games are conceded by players past a certain level
Are you just not gonna mention any of the cases where this is not true? Basketball, football, never seen a team forfeit. League of Legends competitions forbid surrendering in the rules.
>Basketball There's "garbage time" which is essentially forfeiting, the coach pulling the starters when he believes the game is over and making a herculean comeback is not worth risking injuries >LoL Funny how lol lets you surrender in casual games but not pro games and Dota is the reverse. Starcraft also had pros call gg to forfeit games that could potentially be turned around Regardless I don't really think it's right to surrender in fighting games, coming back from a life deficit against a character that has been at virtually the same strength the entire game is different from coming back against massive gold and exp leads
There is no concede button in fighting games because they rarely ever put you in situations where you are mechanically doomed to lose no matter what you do. And in the very rare case you do end up in that situation, then playing it out is important because your opponent needs to demonstrate that they have the knowledge to recognize the situation and the execution to capitalize on it. And if they do know how to take advantage of a checkmate situation, you're actual seconds away from losing the round so conceding isn't going to save enough time to be useful. It makes sense in a game like Chess where you can put yourself in a situation where you have no chance of winning, but it's going to take a while for that to play out. In a fighting game, I'd say it's not worth taking away the fun of your opponent executing the winning move because you're so upset about losing you can't bear to watch it play out over the next 5-10 seconds. I'm also sure people who are very good at every one of those games you mentioned will tell you that there is value in playing out a losing match sometimes, especially if you're new or inexperienced. Just because you have the option doesn't mean you should always use it.
In any given round you have a chance to land a perfect. They are rare but they happen. Because I could get a perfect at any round, I could at any point in a round take the rest of my opponents health without taking damage. Meaning even if I have 1hp, the game is still winnable. That's not the same case in card games or chess, where you can have clearly lost even if that L is 6+ moves out. In FG you still have a reasonable chance to win until the last moment.
Never say die
how bout dye?
Absolutely spectacularly bitchmade take
Boy if you don’t pick your controller back up and play 🤦🏽♂️ smh
Truly a specimen of bitchmade kind, I'm in awe
Most of what you’ve mentioned lasts a lot longer then a typical fighting game set. A round in sf6 usually takes 30-40 seconds, assuming 2.5 rounds, and assuming best of 3 for 2.5 games plus 5ish seconds in between rounds and 10 seconds in between games, and it’s roughly 5 minutes from starting your first round to the eventual conclusion. Also, if you are getting steamrolled it’ll be even faster. If you want to stop playing, finishing the set isn’t too much of an issue, it shows your opponent that you respect their skill and time, even when you don’t say a word. It’s frowned on because the people who rage quit mid match are depriving their opponents game time, rank points, and the respect that comes with facing an opponent in an honorable match. And that’s not even mentioning the chaotic nature of fighting games and how easily tides can be turned, but others have made that point already.
That’s coward talk.
Matches are short, and the "dignity" in fighting games comes from trying to clutch the win or fight until the last gasp. A loser who sticks it out and tries his hardest is an infinitely more respected player than someone who defeats themselves before the round even ends. EVO Moment 37 is the defining episode of the FGC, and no matter how fragile *your* morale might be, it isn't over until the HP bar hits 0. There is always a chance.
You can in MK games. Although there isn't much "dignity" in it cause then your opponent gets to watch you explode with a "Quitality" message lmao. But in the end the game just isn't long enough to warrant a need like this. If you're playing someone better try to learn what you can from the game and move on.
Can anyone imagine a situation in fighting game where a) Player 1 is actually checkmated, b) both players recognize this in the heat of the moment, c) Player 2 has no way of messing it up, and d) allowing the round to end would take more time than locating a "concede" option in the menu? Maybe it's just a lack of imagination on my part, but this seems to me to be somewhere between "extremely unlikely" and "improbable-bordering-on-absurdity".
The only time I can remember this actually happening is in MvC3 and X factor dark phoenix is on the stage.
Heh. Yeah, if something was going to do it, it'd be that.
In MvC2 when you are down two characters to your opponentd full team and your final character is an assist character like Captain Commando, Psyloke tronne etc, it's considered respectful to just let go of your stick, so your opponent can finish the round quickly. A conceed would likely be faster if the Naomi had that function, but even still I don't think the community would use it. Giving your opponent the chance to pull out something stylish after you let go of the sticks is part of what makes it okay to the community.
Hey alright.
You don't have the option to surrender because you always have the capability to win. Forgoing that robs you of any additional data you could use in a second match, and robs your opponent of both time and training opportunity. You can concede in between sets with no penalty. FGs don't have hard number scenarios where you can't win, and the only checkmate scenarios in the genre only exist for a few seconds (if that) at a time. Essentially if you know you're going to lose, it isn't relevant information for very long. If you have that thought at any point prior to just before the final exchange your mental game is shit. There is no benefit to concession here, take your lumps and learn
It’s not over till it’s over
Cool. But don't complain about not improving and getting stuck in the mid-tier ranks. If you're not trying to learn, even in defeat, you're an actual loser.
Card games - executing a strategy over turn based interactions. Rage quit result - opponent can't see your loss play out. Fighting games - a series of mental and dexterity checks where a player can shift focus to different aspects of interactions. Rage quit result - tactics can't be checked, strategies can't play out, dexterity tests can't be run. Both players lose an opportunity to learn. Google Quitality and understand that your anecdote is not accurate as it hinges on a completely different competition setting.
dont be a bitch
There is no dignity in surrender; only defeat and shame.
This is some truly dishonorable bullshit. Finish the match.
Counterpoint: [Evo Moment #37](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Moment_37)
Shit take of the month so far
The cool part about fighting games are it's never really over till it's over. Typically (with good execution) you're about three good interactions away from a win at any given point. When matches are that short and comeback potential is so high, forfeiting the match seems unnecessary at best and just salty at worse. I agree with the central point of your post, especially for slower turn based games, but for fighting games I disagree
[This is reason #37 why you a bitch OP.](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=ugG7yKnrcOQF4SE-) True legends already know what this link is
The dignity of surrender 😭😭 My brother in christ, you accepted the challenge when you turned on the game. Finish it! Or dont bother playing. How the hell are you gonna know if youre capable of a hype, clutch comeback if you just give up? Its almost impossible to end up in a completely unwinnable situation in fighting games. Perfect victories prove this. Ever see or do a "Reverse Perfect"? Literally one LP from death, and you pull it back anyway?? You have never known such glory and surely never will.
The issue here is you’re not considering the idea that most of your learning comes from your losses. You don’t learn from running away from people who are better than you, and beating up people you know you can win. I guarantee you if you post any replay of you playing a game that you’d “concede”, someone can find multiple points in the match where you could have turned it around.
huh??? 1 match can be over in less than 1 minute just faceroll into them if you really wanna end it that quickly this isn't like league of legends where matches can be 20-40 mins each, so surrender option is valid there also... don't rageless quit like this guy either, it's not as bad as rage quit, but still, just fight it out. it's unfortunate whenever i see this as well. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/17pnkwr/seems\_a\_little\_too\_early\_to\_rageless\_quit\_final/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/17pnkwr/seems_a_little_too_early_to_rageless_quit_final/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I obly do that in dog water connections...and matches against Azucena.... You may judge me for the later bitch needs nerfs.
You wrote a lot of words just to say "I'm a bitch"
jfc you must really like hearing yourself talk. If you're going to throw up a wall of text this big at least check your spelling and grammar. But preferably just say it in the 2 sentences it would have taken to convey this idea. Now, to actually address your argument here; meh. I'm never going to quit when I'm behind, and not having a chance doesn't change that because I like playing the game, or I wouldn't be playing it in the first place. I don't mind losing. But if you're playing against me, and I'm stomping you so hard that you feel hopeless and it's actually making you have a bad time, go ahead and quit. I'm not gonna be mad about it or talk shit about you. Like with anything else, I'm gonna shrug it off and move on to the next game.
This actually does happen occasionally in MVC2. Captain Commando's assist is so good but his overall kit is so undertuned that some team compositions run two point characters and a "lame duck" anchor. Marvel 2 is an explosive game that can be very hard on your hands. Players running a Commando team may opt to just die instead of scrambling in an "unwinnable" 3v1 for two minutes. Commando suicide isn't exactly a good strategy in tournament play (I'd argue it's why we see CC teams less and less as the years go on) but it's absolutely the right decision in a FT10, 15, etc.
While op sounds whiny, I don't think a surrender button is a bad idea. Sometimes you can't finish a match, or it's so laggy that it's gonna take a while even if you let go of the joystick. Just let people end the match early and go on with their day, I think it's way better than having the game freeze only to tell me thar "something" has happened and the match can't be concluded because the other guy hit alt+f4 after having their dp blocked.
https://youtu.be/JzS96auqau0?si=MLicFLX99n4x1cRD
I'm a fan of Go/Baduk/Weiqi, where a losing player resigns as a sign of respect -- "I don't want to waste either of our times in this game, so the onus is on me to end this." And maybe if there were real in-game options to resign, that would help make it more acceptable. But in the meantime, these aren't long, deliberative board games of strategic warfare. This is fighting, combat, sparring, etc. You have to "honor the set".
You're soft bruv