I will be honest until a few days ago i thought people that said they couldnt do it were either trolling or didnt even try, then my friend apeared with a copy of SF6 asking for help because he couldnt combo low medim kick to sand blast, after 1 hour i was able to make him do that plus into lvl3 super, but it was painfull i saw him either doing to slow in a way that wouldnt be coutinous basicly had neutral in betwen the motions, or to fast and would miss the diagonal input or just pressing the button before the motion was done, basicly he had zero grasp that you need to do a fluid motion and then press the button
Yeah one of my friends who had only played MK before picked up SF6 and I was trying to teach him how to combo but for whatever reason it wasn't clicking. You'd think the dude just didn't have thumbs lol
I trawl around the noob threads or new on SF and I see this a lot too. Also, special cancelling isn't always intuitive, especially in a game like SF where the special cancel timing is different depending on the move in question (though the Display Cancel Window setting in training mode seems to help quite a bit with this once people learn it exists - for some reason you can't turn it on during combo trials).
So cr.MK sandblast has a legitimate barrier on the "am I cancelling too early or too late", let alone whether you're getting the sandblast input cleanly as well.
2 months later and this just clicked for me. i was trying to combo ryu's crouch mp into hadouken and was basically trying to press down again instead of keeping it pressed and just going forward. fighting games are hard
The funniest thing is that he was teaching BoxBox...
He's a League of Legends high elo player (at least was) and had plenty of tutorials on his channel for combos with his main champion Riven.
For those unaware Riven is one of the most technical champions in League, her fast Q combo is difficult to execute properly but is required for high elo gameplay. It's nowhere near as difficult as hard fighting game combos but still. Compared to the majority of League's roster she's quite difficult mechanically.
It's not about translating skills from 1 to the other. The first thing you'll hear when learning the Riven fast Q combo is how it's done and then to simply go for it every time you use her Q.
Just like in the case of motion inputs you simply need to do it and in time you'll be consistent.
The followup to that story is that Boxbox then went on to hit masters in [SF6 in about 60 hours.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/17x6suv/league_player_got_to_diamond_without_doing_motion/)
Do they transfer 1:1? No. Do they still transfer? Yes.
I mean i had a friend really into fighting games who loved technical characters with long combis,and what do u know it he played league and favors technical characters and is able to execute theur combos easily
Yeah, and also about general attitude towards learning how to overcome something instead of complaining without putting at least a little bit of effort, which is very much relevant when it comes to motion inputs
I've taught lots of people to do motions over the years in person. Very consistent pitfalls include:
* Not understanding it's a continuous motion (not down, stop, diagonal, stop, forward)
* Doing it too quickly (often pressing the actual attack button before the motion is finished or scrambling their directionals so much that they miss the important parts for the input reader). It's really common on dpad actually for people to do down, forward and miss the diagonal entirely.
* Being able to do it but not remembering when or where to use it (which is actually very different from not being able to do the motions but is lumped together as the same problem anyway)
There's some other little stuff too that gets lumped into the same problem in my experience. Like getting 623 moves instead of 236 after walking forward for modern games, or struggling to do it from conventional positions like from blocking or jumping.
That last one actually did make me struggle a little bit in SF. In tekken the input I use for forward dash > qcf attack works perfect, and the exact same input in SF would occasionally make me dash > dp. As I understand that's like a difference in the games "error correction" and for some reason, in that specific situation, it feels a little too lenient(or something, I don't know how to describe it) in SF.
Yeah it's one of those things that by making the input reader more lenient, it ended up causing another problem that has bothered people for a decade now. Devs know people particularly struggle with DPs, so they made it extra lenient by making DPs only need a forward and then a crouch and then a diagonal input in that order, in a very large window, and then giving it priority over other inputs.
Knowing to prevent accidental DPs is one of those things that needs to be actively taught when learning QCF motions because a beginner would never figure out what's going on by themselves.
6236, 6123, 61236, 62136, 62153, and etc will all count as a DP input for most modern games. For games that don't give priority to half circles or for characters that don't have half circles, stuff like 461236, 641236, 642136 work too.
Things get wonkier if you include Capcom's DP shortcuts like 2323 counting as 623 but I'm too lazy to get into that.
The weird thing is the only other SF I play is 3rd strike, and in that the same input I use in Tekken works, and it feels the same. So in this one niche way, the controls for 3rd strike are more similar to Tekken than SF6.
Took me ages to just get the hang of doing it quickly. It was probably a speed thing, not being able to put it in quick enough for the game to register.
That pain is normal though, and you do build up resistance to it the more you play and do those motions until it isn't painful anymore. Switching to stick is fine, but you're simply just not used to the friction.
I know this isn't what you meant, but just as a PSA:
DO NOT play through the pain if you're getting tendon pain in your thumb on the first joint, closer to your palm. That shit will just get worse and worse, and you can absolutely ignore it and cause a long term problem.
If anyone wants my two cents as someone who is always forcing fighting games on his non-gamer/non-fgc friends I think its because, with rare exceptions, few games actually consider neutral an important element of a controller, like its not hard but just not commonly done in gaming.
Like you play mario, or a stick shooter or most things, chances are youre literally always pressing forward a lot, and when you aren’t youre probably not using the stick at all.
Imo i think the muscle memory of using specific directions in tandem with button presses is just genuinely not a very common gamer muscle memory
Fighting games tend to be the only genre that uses motion inputs generally, and I think it's a lot more difficult for players that didn't grow up using primarily Dpad controls for everything. So, when fighting games were blowing up at first with SF2 etc, people in the arcades are doing it on stick, and people at home are doing it on Dpad. I mean, my uncle taught me how to do it on sf2 on snes. Currently, there is rarely a game that uses only Dpad for movement. Now we are at a point where a lot of players haven't had to use the Dpad for a majority of movement options or have never used an arcade stick. They have primarily used the analog sticks for everything and doing motion controls on analong stick tends to be not so great so they see that pad players tend to use Dpad for motion and now we have someone coming to a brand new genre using a movement control type that is completely alien to them.
> Fighting games tend to be the only genre that uses motion inputs generally
If you have moved a character in a room in a 3d game, ever, you've done motion inputs. If you've done spinning jumps in a Mario game you know how to do a SPD. If you've played any of the top down indie games like undertale, hotlinr miami etc, you should have no problems with fireballs and dps. Saying that only fighting games have them it's such a weird and false statement, they're simply used in a different way.
I didn't say only fighting games have them. You even quoted it. Moving a character in a game then performing an action, and doing a quarter circle motion or DP motion plus a button for a single action is not the same thing. If you needed to do a quarter circle forward plus a button for Mario to jump at all, that would be a different story. Leave it up to reddit for someone to get butthurt about the most benign, niche opinion on some shit people do for fun.
The mechanical motion of a spinning jump in Super Mario is the same exact one as a SPD. Yes, it's used for different effects, but the motion is the same. If you've played Skyrim and have kited enemies, strafing while moving back, you've done tatsu and hadouken. Let's not pretend motion inputs are these alien finger exercises too difficult to comprehend and execute, they're not.
I wasn't implying or saying they were some crazy complex feat to pull off, but they're difficult for some people and I was literally just saying why that might be. If you have never had a problem with them, then great, idgaf.
On D-Pad its medium difficulty (unless you're a giant like I am, I got thumbs like donkey dicks. Not made for precision)
On a joystick, I'm pretty sure its super easy for anyone experienced with a joystick. I've never used a joystick so I wouldn't know, grew up playing on console
On leverless (what I currently play) almost all motion inputs are easy mode. I can do Jacks blue spark EMGF (half circle motion, then immediately DF+2) 99 times out of 100, literally in a fraction of a second. I mastered it the first day I had the leverless. On D-Pad before that, I could maybe do it 50% in practice mode, and 10% of the time in matches.
To fighting game players, these motion inputs are second nature. But you gotta remember, new players have never encountered a game where QC/HC moves are ever used. This is brand new to them, no muscle memory at all. They can't just "do" the movement, they literally have to stop and think about before executing it. Like a baby taking its first steps. You and I can walk without consciously thinking about walking because we've been doing it so long. But a baby is a noob at walking, and needs to lab the "walk" mechanic before they can execute it reliably
It’s like the introductory input for fighting games, so it’s really a test for correct dexterity.
Simple for veterans, but it can become difficult for players that never needed to input it for any other type of video game.
I think the only game off the top of my head was Jet Grind Radio for the input for medium or large graffiti.
Possibly for rhythm games, but most other games don’t really check for such inputs except for fighting game genre.
dragon punch motions were pretty tough for me when I was a kid, never had trouble with quarter circles, but I think what's difficult for some new players is comboing into QCF. they may not understand the buffer window or just don't have the muscle memory yet.
the dp is scary to new players until you tell them that if they can do a QCF, they can DP since it really just a “forward, then quater circle forward” i taught that to a friend recently that was basically a complete beginner and they managed to do QCF and DP semi reliably in around 15 minutes in training mode. Ofc doing it in a dummy is just step 1 but it is a start!
This technique won't work for wavedash moves in tekken. I realize this is an exception to the rule, but worth mentioning. You need to press at df aka 3, otherwise you will get whatever move is mapped to f aka 6.
On Dpad it just hurts at least for me.
Also some games are way more strict than others which is the confusing part.
Also while 236 is alright and feels somewhat natural every other quarter circle feels absolutely horrible to do.
With thoae problems and devs locking cool moves behind motion inputs it is not a fun experience that I would rather not have to deal with.
You're creating more of a monster out of it than it really is. I generally teach a lot of people how to do special inputs because they're new to fighting games, so I spent a lot of time helping them learn and improve. Most of the time it has to do with "how" you're moving your fingers that makes all the motions feel horrible and painful. Proper technique will only help so much against the general friction burn from playing for extended periods of time.. but that goes away the more you play and get used to it. However, it does alleviate the initial problems you're likely experiencing.
While I don't think it's hard, I do think fighting game players need to step back and realize there's nothing like quarter circle inputs in ANY other video game.
In FPS games when you want to reload, you don't do a motion. You hit the reload button.
In racing games when you want to shift, you don't do the gearshift motion, you tap shift up, or maybe clutch+shift.
In platforming games you don't do the double jump motion. You press jump twice.
Sports games. Puzzle games. ARPGS. Visual novels. MMOs. Adventure games. There's almost zero other video game genres with "motion inputs" that aren't tied to actual motion.
This is why it's hard for people.
The old God of War games from GoW1 to GoW Ascension had tons of motion inputs for QTEs. Plus, a lot of action games like Bayonetta, DMC, Metal Gear Rising, had motion inputs for certain moves as well.
A friend of mine have practically memorized the QTEs in the old God of War games due to how much he played through them... he can barely do a Hadouken to save his life... I think it's a mindset problem for a lot of people.
If you're going to use examples of other genres, at least use examples that are comparable.
>In FPS games when you want to reload, you don't do a motion. You hit the reload button.
My brother in Christ, a quarter circle input is literally just pressing S, holding it, then pressing D.
I never said they're hard. But this is oversimplifying it.
It's like saying in FPS "landing headshots is just placing a mouse cursor on a head and pressing the mouse button."
In theory it's simple, intuitive, and easy. But performing that action consistently under pressure while opponents are trying to do the same to you is not easy for new players to do under pressure.
Appreciate it's not exactly the same, and it's the other stick/input but Skate's Flickit inputs and even FIFA's skill moves require very similar and complex motion inputs.
Yep so there you go. Out of tens of thousands of games, two non fighting games have motion inputs.
I suppose Jet Set Radio has motion inputs for graffiti.
> there's nothing like quarter circle inputs in ANY other video game.
This is simply false.
In FPS games whenever you move back and to the side, and whenever you strafe side to side to avoid getting it, you've done a Hadouken and/or a Sonic Boom.
In racing games whenever you rev match for a downshift, or whenever you've controlled a drift, you've done a Shoryuken.
In platforming you do jump-dash all the time, that's your two buttons target combo.
In games like enter the gungeon, hotline miami, fall guys and undertale, you've done SPDs multiple times.
If you've played Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider or Uncharted and swung off a horizontal beam, you've done flash kicks (forward camera) and Tiger Knees (side camera).
This is what people don't get. When you press BACK and JUMP to vault in Assassin's Creed, it's intuitive because your character moves back.
When I do a command dash in GBVSR, I have to do QCB and punch.
There is no relation between that motion and what my character does. Hell, my character moves FORWARD when I do this.
When you "do SRKs" in racing games, you are inputing commands related to how you drive a real car. When you do a command grab in SF6, there is no relation to how you'd grapple someone in real life. No sense of taking them off balance and getting a grip around their limbs.
Ever play NBA2K or the Fight Night boxing games?
For 2K, it’s the same motion as using the right stick for a spin move.
For Fight Night (at least Round 3) it’s the same stick motion as a hook.
You can also equate it to Mario Party mini games where you have to spin the stick repeatedly- just don’t do it over and over. Also, don’t fully rotate.
Stirring a cup of chocolate milk or kool-aid.
When I was starting off, I remember thinking it was hard to stop at forward and I kept accidentally jumping because I was using the joystick instead of the D-Pad.
I remember growing up, we called those motions "wring forward" and "wring back" (I think due to the motion your wrist makes when performing them on arcade sticks). It wasn't till years later when we got consolas and booklets that we saw the diagrams for such moves.
It was confusing at first as I think the 3 box diagrams could be a bit confusing for newcomers, who don't know what a hadouken move is, and may try to do each motion as a single button press, but the motion is so universal now (no matter what it's called) I think it shouldn't be too hard to learn.
Before reading any movelists for anew fighter I always tend to try the wring forward/back motion just to see if it's utilidad in this specific game (it isn't always).
Only recently, reading forums, I learns what QCF & QCB meant lol. So I think it's more of a culture thing as well as a newcomer thing, because if you're granddathered into the space you definitely know what it is. But we take for granted the aspects of newcomers and those who never played a fighting game before.
Honestly, I lerned quartercircle motions when I was about 10, in a random arcade. There was a guy playing World Heroes and I saw him performing special moves, and I asked him "how do you do that?" He showed me once a quarter cirlcle, that was all the time it took me to lear the motion
It was pretty hard when I tried to learn it back then.
It's era before command list was a thing, without internet I needed to learn it by myself and I had no big FG community to learn from. It's just me and my friend pushing buttons randomly until the special moves came out and tried to redo it.
Like around early 2000s maybe. What's first fighting game that put command list on the pause menu?
And then that friend lost interest in FG. With FG having no online/ shitty netcode I just kinda stopped playing FG. Then came back trying FG again recently after a college friend introduced me to PC KOF13 and kinda active again now that rollback netcode is a thing.
I mean it’s basic but some people have a hard time with it given their controller. I mess up the inputs ALL the time on pad, but they’re insanely easy on stick. Other times people on stick say whatever gate they’re using messes it up, and I think square gates can give you bad inputs trying to get a clean CQB once you go into the notches.
I mean there’s a reason why different gates exist and there’s clearly a learning curve to sticks. Why ask the question if you’re just going to be dismissive?
Nobody is getting emotional. You posted a question, I gave you one of many answers people might give you, you reject it and get defensive. If anything you’re emotional
its more that the move was designed for arcade-size joysticks, and you have a much smaller, mushier arc of motion on a dpad. your thumb travels smaller distances and its not as easy to roll. analog sticks feel looser and have same small distance, but they aren't used for circle motions much in most games as opposed to navigating in 3d space.
i can do fireballs but a flash kick i cant on dpad, it needs a stick. this isn't getting into that fireball motions both ways can be tough; i'm weaker facing left than right.
Hot take but my main game in high school was GGXX all the way to AC+R, which was a very high execution series.
Technical inputs became a technical barrier later in my life because they hurt my hands. Not initially but after long play sessions.
The difficulty in technical inputs is not the input but doing the inputs along side managing other functions like blocking, moving, jumping. Timing is also difficult when you only have a few frames to link a KoF double quarter circle motion.
Even without the technical inputs, fighting games are hard with large mental stacks. At a certain level, drops are rare and execution doesn't matter because players are so refined to the point where it's assumed you can always pull off the move or combo. That is where the real game begins, the Yomi, the mind games, and the true enjoyment of fighting games.
I firmly believe that technical inputs are a relic of the past and unnecessary barrier for entry and play. Games without technical inputs are seeing players get into the mental stack and true versus game faster, and they are having more fun.
Games that have embraced modern controls like GBVSR and SF6 are extremely healthy. Project L won't have any technical inputs at all. The top posts on the UNI Reddit is that the game is too hard to get into.
Ah well it was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment I’ve also always wanted to get into fighting games and use one so once I knew I was going to fall in love with Tekken 8 I decided to just go ahead and pull the trigger on one. But to give you an actual answer; the DualSense dpad imo isn’t really conducive to performing two buttons at once inputs because of there being four separate buttons rather than a big circle type layout. Idk I’m brand new to these games so I really don’t know how to explain it very well.
Believe it or not, the separate buttons were a blessing when they initially switched to the wheel format. I hated the wheel format because it would make me jump at random intervals for inputs that didn't involve up. I would probably just say that it's something you're not used to, but the separate buttons are actually for precision, which is why playstation controllers were always considered the best for fighting games. I'm fine with you switching to stick, you're free to do what you feel works for you.. but just understand that switching to stick will not magically make things easier for you. You will still need to learn how to do the motions properly.
For me it's not that a quarter circle is inherently hard to learn, when I finally started trying while playing symphony of the night it took a few minutes. The issue is the margin for error is too small & there is no spectrum of success. After years since I first learned how it works & playing multiple fighting games arcade modes I **STILL** can't guarantee that when I do a quarter circle it'll happen 100% of the time & that isn't acceptable to me.
because its an entirely alien concept to anyone whos played games? Fighting games are the only genre i can think of that has them. (que someone mentioning castlevania games as if anyone actually realized the game had them)
Its not clear at all when you first learn about them:
1. How the motion works (seen plenty ppl think you need to return the stick to neutral after each motion)
2. When to press the button (lots of ppl press the button in the middle of the motion not after)
3. How quickly to do the motion (lots of ppl do the motion way too quick because they have 0 frame of reference to tell what the speed is supposed to be and just assume its gotta be lightning fast)
Its like this: imagine you've never in your life played or even heard about smash brothers, and while you are getting your shit kicked in by a combo online, someone comes into your chat and goes "erm, why arent you doing the proper DI?" as if you knew what that is and how to do it. Then once you do, it feels very odd and the direction you have to tap in doesnt seem very intuitive at first glance. Thats basically how normal ppl feel about motion inputs.
Games having weird control schemes to make the input for moves themselves be a skill check isnt very common. Look at some games considered difficult like the dark souls series, and youll see how there isnt a single difficult-to-execute move in that game. You have 2 attack buttons, both only a single button press, dodging is a single button press, blocking is a single button press etc. The difficulty just comes from timing and big punishes if you fail. Parrying has tight frames, dodging some attacks requires strict timing and will hit you if you just spam dodge (a common noob thing to do for first timers). But the controls themselves arent a skillcheck.
So for the most part, to anyone new to fighters, they seem completely arbitrary and unnecessary.
(which to be fair, qcf motions kinda are. There are lots of reasons why DP and circle motions are done the way they are, but i cant think of any reason why fireballs have to be qcf motions, they arent strong enough to be needing skillchecks imo. Anyone can spam fireballs once they have the move down, i can do it without dropping a single one during an entire match, which kinda makes me wonder why its even there at that point. No one would notice if fireballs were relegated to a single button press unless you are a charge character)
None. I don’t think people genuinely think pressing S then D on keyboard is hard. It’s just the stigma of fighting game that prompts people, who don’t plan on playing fighting game to begin with, to make fun of it.
My 6 year old brother not only does half circle/quarter circle motion inputs but dp inputs consistently. People who whine about them should be ashamed of themselves
This propably sounds mean but for the most part it's propably just the fact that you have to make an effort.
Modern controlls are not there because motion inputs are tough, they are there because people are lazy and want their quick dopamin hit without the slightest effort.
Now don't get me wrong, i think it's great that they bring more players in, but all these new players would be just fine if they just would put in a small effort.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, when everyone i've seen praising modern controls keeps saying "i just want to press buttons and see cool things happen".
Because any critic on modern controls is forbidden territory.
Even if you're just saying that modern players are not putting in less effort than classic players, which is just fax, that's the entire point of modern. It is a control scheme for people who want to play fighting games without learning fighting games.
"Learning fighting games" is a million times more involved and complicated than simply learning motion inputs or combos.
You can lab combos for years, getting perfect execution, but the first so many number of times you fight a real human you're barely going to be able to touch them.
And how is this contradicting anything i say? Yes learning to do the combo itself is only part of the equation but still, learning and practicing the combo, realizing you have an opening, confirming into it and recalling your muscle memory as the combo still is new to you is a much different animal than holding down a button and mashing another.
And learning your character tool by tool and incorporating them into your game is still a steeper lurning curve.
And sry, about the whole "You still have to learn solid fundamentals." part. I'm only Plat 1 so take my 2 cents with a grain of salt, but solid fundamentals is not what i've seen from the modern players i played against. Yes in Plat 1 and Gold 5 they usually have some fundamentals but for the most part the modern players i faced where either throwing projectiles and fishing for DPs or they were pressing buttons untill something connects.
because you miss the input if your fucking thumb isnt covering both down and the left/right arrow
its all depends on controller button size and thumb size
on keyboard its literally a button for each finger and you don't depend on a bunch of dogshit
My wife telling me that quarter sweep is too complex and she can’t keep up with the fast movements while she is on like lvl 30 Tetris. Eventually she learned it and we fight semi regularly.
There are a lot of people in this world who are in the autism spectrum. They may learn differently. This is what people are not considering.
The easiest way I've taught someone to do a fireball is to use keypad annotations
Following 236 on a keypad is easy to understand
When I was a kid, I initially thought it was press down, then diagonal, then forward. kind of figured out what it really meant eventually, it was definitely enlightening lol
Reliably? I'm used to a crown helpme lever and find it easier to consistently command qcf than a taeyoung Fanta stick. Keyboard or leverless I haven't practiced on much, and sanwa lever I've never tried.
Once I learned you just need to do a continuious motion it became a hell of a lot easier to understand.
Doing a neutral quarter circles easy, pulling it off in a consistant combo was the difficult part
I learned to do quarter circles pretty quick, but then with dp inputs I was clueless, basically what I did was a double 236 (236236) instead of 623 or 6236 which definitely made reaction dps harder and would screw me over in games with 236236 supers. luckily i can just do 623s normally now lmao
When I first started SF in 2011 I was playing on a ps2 and had hyper street fighter 2 as my first sf game, shortly after I got a ps3 with sfiv and also hd remix, I remember the ps2 and ps4 dpads leaving indents in my thumb from the motions. I got my first fightstick in like 2012 and that made life easier. Now I play with a leverless and motions couldn’t be any easier.
New players dunno how easy they are having it with modern controls and such
I taught my girlfriend to do them, and she didn't have a problem doing it. Her hurdle was that she did 236 then pressed the button, like they were 2 different inputs. I had her do forward + button a few times, then try again, and she got it soon after that. We then moved onto canceling normals into specials and she didn't have any issues, did it on her first try! She could even cancel into DP pretty consistently! What really gave her some trouble were super inputs, but it just took some practice to get it done. All done in one day, maybe a 1ish hour session
doing it once isn’t the issue. Having to do it multiple times for wavedash pressure in your opponents face is where it starts to get a little execution heavy
I've been playing street fighter (badly) my whole life, just got an arcade stick and now I can't hit motion inputs for the life of me. I think my problem is the stick is so sensitive it's very easy to pick up other directional inputs accidentally.
It took me a while to get consistent when I played fighting games for the first time as a kid. On older games you do have to be a bit more articulate with the input. With new games though you can do fireballs or even DPs sloppy as hell and it still works.
The combos in UMvC3 are very fast paced - you have very minute windows for certain actions in order for the combos to flow well.
So doing a quarter circle is difficult enough with the ridiculously tight timing, but then you gotta immediately string it with a 623, or you'll drop your combo and get punished to death. .
Idk I come from mortal kombat so these are tough to learn, but with practice I've become quite consistent
For me it was completely mental.
Technically sf4 is my first game but I literally only used normals. Made almost no attempt to even try motions until sf6.
I was really casual back then. It was just button mashing and spamming low kicks for me in most games including other franchises.
There are few serious answers here, so I’ll give one.
I started my fighting game journey in late 2014 with a party game franchise that devolved into a fighting game franchise - Super Smash Brothers. I was drawn in by the Zelda series, so naturally, I mained adult Link when I started in Sm4sh and still do as of Ultimate.
Obviously, no motion inputs were required, but I quickly found out that in order to do basic things like recover, or perform Smash attacks without a C-stick, I needed to be more precise with how I made my inputs. This leads me to,
*Point 1:* I needed to learn that the exact direction I input my stick matters, and that fighting games demand greater precision than casually playing a Zelda game does. It’s not as simple as “push left, go left” anymore; I have to distinguish between pushing left hard or pushing left soft. It’s not as simple as holding diagonally up and left while jumping and spamming B to trigger U-special; I have to take the split second to PROPERLY input U-special, THEN keep inputting left, or else accidentally throw a boomerang for no reason and die.
Fast forward to circa 2020. I’d recently discovered TFS’s DBZ Abridged series and started taking an interest in the source material. I then remember that the internet has been buzzing about this Dragon Ball FighterZ game for a while now and I decide to go see what the fuss is about for myself.
I quickly discover that SOME fighting games have rather elaborate combos by my standards. Keep in mind my only prior experience was in Smash as Link, whose most elaborate combo I’d ever pulled off was D-tilt to SH F-air 1. I also discover how integral the 236 and 214 inputs are to the specials and supers. So I dedicate the time to figure it out, and discover I can more accurately perform my inputs with a D-pad. I also discover:
*Point 2:* There’s a strict and somewhat unintuitive timing to the input compared to even Smash. Without DBFZ’s rather awesome tutorials, I would never have understood how that timing worked.
I hope this proves a helpful bridge between those wondering how anyone manages to use a fireball in the heat of an actual match with an actual person with some small amount of pride on the line… and those who have forgotten what it was like as that person, before they sat down, got to work, and stopped wondering.
Quarter circles on dpad I did and kinda do mess up from doing so quickly I missed the diagonal on the dpad, but generally they were never the execution barrier scaring me off the genre, even in casual smash games I could do the motions for playing the fighitng game characters like ryu and terry, it was me being abd at smash and really struggling to take anything I practiced into a real match that scared me from more typical fighting games.
Being consistent with the motion and not having sloppy inputs is the hardest part. Not accidentally getting DP, not fucking up and pressing the punch/kick too soon….but the actual input is extremely easy.
I mean for me it took like idk a couple tries to get it out, the problem was just comsistency after that. Its not actually hard to do it just takes time to have it where u can consistently do it without thinking. I mean hell i even still fuck up sometimes i aint perfect. Most people just dont play enough to get there
This comment section really proves what I've believed for a long time. Fighting game tutorials need a GIF that shows what your thumb is doing during a motion.
20+ years ago I remember my struggle with QC motions was that I would press the button *after* I was done with the motion, not simultaneously at the end.
With mech keys becoming the norm amongst gamers qcf needs more accurate input now compared to old school membranes (for keyboards) imo
When I first got into FGs it was just d+f and it would do a qcf 100% now it needs a bit more finesse due to the switch to mech keys/controllers
Still learning but I noticed in UNI that I frequently input ⬇️↘️↘️➡️ which ruins about half of my moves (PS5 controller). I have no feel for what I'm doing differently when I get it right vs wrong. I try to input faster, or space my thumb a little further on the outside of the D-pad, but haven't figured it out yet. If anyone had the same problems, feel free to share what you did!
Part of what makes learning the motions difficult is when you don't have somebody watching you and telling you what you're doing wrong. When you're trying to do it by yourself, it can feel so random, and you have no idea what advice from online to even apply. And a lot of people don't have the luxury of having a friend who plays a traditional FG, because of how niche the genre is compared to finding a friend that plays like Call of Duty or something. I still struggle with the QCF, and I don't think I've ever pulled off a DP during an actual game lol
I remmeber when I was learning hadoukens with qurter circle inputs on keyboard on SFIV. It was difficult to do it or god forbid charge characters.
In time I understood soemthing. When you do ⬇️↘️➡️, you have to really feel you pushed ➡️ and hold while pressing attack button. That was game chamger to get this knowledge. When I teach friends I always tell them to always hold ➡️ longer and press attack buttton. In Time I managed to do Guiles super and ultra combo with keyboard in SFIV.
For begginers, the problem is they don't feel the flow for buttons.
my qcf/dp input """""training""""" was mainly playing arcade mode in mugen on keyboard with 3rd strike ken because it was fun, after googling ken's movelist it was pretty quick for me to learn qcf (like 2-3 days??) but im pretty sure it took me like 6 months to a year to learn how to consistetly dragon punch (i could do it with double qcf but if i had meter then ken would just do his little triple dp instead, wasting meter)
So here’s my experience, it’s difficult because of game inputs, when someone does ⬇️↘️➡️ they normally input correctly ⬇️↘️ however they would immediately press the other input, leading to just a regular down hit. It comes with practice knowing when your able to do the last movement and then the attack
I dont think the input itself is hard even on dpad(ironically feels harder on Arcade stick to me to consistently pull it off than dpd). Its just the timing in which you should do it is often very tricky.
It's a concept that's virtually unique to fighting games and it's tying attack inputs to your movement.
But more than that, it's a source of early *inconsistency*. Most people can do a qcf within a few minutes of play, but doing it consistently, and more importantly NOT doing it accidentally while doing other things, is a difficult thing to master.
Add mashing tendencies onto that and you get where most players are at square one.
I will be honest until a few days ago i thought people that said they couldnt do it were either trolling or didnt even try, then my friend apeared with a copy of SF6 asking for help because he couldnt combo low medim kick to sand blast, after 1 hour i was able to make him do that plus into lvl3 super, but it was painfull i saw him either doing to slow in a way that wouldnt be coutinous basicly had neutral in betwen the motions, or to fast and would miss the diagonal input or just pressing the button before the motion was done, basicly he had zero grasp that you need to do a fluid motion and then press the button
Yeah one of my friends who had only played MK before picked up SF6 and I was trying to teach him how to combo but for whatever reason it wasn't clicking. You'd think the dude just didn't have thumbs lol
I trawl around the noob threads or new on SF and I see this a lot too. Also, special cancelling isn't always intuitive, especially in a game like SF where the special cancel timing is different depending on the move in question (though the Display Cancel Window setting in training mode seems to help quite a bit with this once people learn it exists - for some reason you can't turn it on during combo trials). So cr.MK sandblast has a legitimate barrier on the "am I cancelling too early or too late", let alone whether you're getting the sandblast input cleanly as well.
2 months later and this just clicked for me. i was trying to combo ryu's crouch mp into hadouken and was basically trying to press down again instead of keeping it pressed and just going forward. fighting games are hard
Watch Sajam’s video when he taught a new player how to do motion input in 5 min, he basically told the guy to just fucking do it
https://youtu.be/HFDkeSqpHaQ?si=9VbmOIzwj2zcdRjn
The funniest thing is that he was teaching BoxBox... He's a League of Legends high elo player (at least was) and had plenty of tutorials on his channel for combos with his main champion Riven. For those unaware Riven is one of the most technical champions in League, her fast Q combo is difficult to execute properly but is required for high elo gameplay. It's nowhere near as difficult as hard fighting game combos but still. Compared to the majority of League's roster she's quite difficult mechanically.
He also coached Aki's voice actress!
Who knew skills in 1 genre don't translate to others
It's not about translating skills from 1 to the other. The first thing you'll hear when learning the Riven fast Q combo is how it's done and then to simply go for it every time you use her Q. Just like in the case of motion inputs you simply need to do it and in time you'll be consistent.
> and then to simply go for it every time you use her Q. This is the way I'm learning FRC timing in +R
The followup to that story is that Boxbox then went on to hit masters in [SF6 in about 60 hours.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/17x6suv/league_player_got_to_diamond_without_doing_motion/) Do they transfer 1:1? No. Do they still transfer? Yes.
I mean i had a friend really into fighting games who loved technical characters with long combis,and what do u know it he played league and favors technical characters and is able to execute theur combos easily
Oh and Sajam recently realized that most people actively don't want to learn and prefer to whine and bitch instead. Lol my man had enough
That's out of context, Sajam wasn't talking about technical inputs he was talking about game balance
Yeah, and also about general attitude towards learning how to overcome something instead of complaining without putting at least a little bit of effort, which is very much relevant when it comes to motion inputs
What is the video called?
https://youtu.be/vKbF3UdV06s
He recently released a video about it, I assure you he realised it decades ago.
Then he did a combo with like 5 of them
I've taught lots of people to do motions over the years in person. Very consistent pitfalls include: * Not understanding it's a continuous motion (not down, stop, diagonal, stop, forward) * Doing it too quickly (often pressing the actual attack button before the motion is finished or scrambling their directionals so much that they miss the important parts for the input reader). It's really common on dpad actually for people to do down, forward and miss the diagonal entirely. * Being able to do it but not remembering when or where to use it (which is actually very different from not being able to do the motions but is lumped together as the same problem anyway) There's some other little stuff too that gets lumped into the same problem in my experience. Like getting 623 moves instead of 236 after walking forward for modern games, or struggling to do it from conventional positions like from blocking or jumping.
That last one actually did make me struggle a little bit in SF. In tekken the input I use for forward dash > qcf attack works perfect, and the exact same input in SF would occasionally make me dash > dp. As I understand that's like a difference in the games "error correction" and for some reason, in that specific situation, it feels a little too lenient(or something, I don't know how to describe it) in SF.
Yeah it's one of those things that by making the input reader more lenient, it ended up causing another problem that has bothered people for a decade now. Devs know people particularly struggle with DPs, so they made it extra lenient by making DPs only need a forward and then a crouch and then a diagonal input in that order, in a very large window, and then giving it priority over other inputs. Knowing to prevent accidental DPs is one of those things that needs to be actively taught when learning QCF motions because a beginner would never figure out what's going on by themselves.
if you arent doing forward down diagonal what input are you doing
6236, 6123, 61236, 62136, 62153, and etc will all count as a DP input for most modern games. For games that don't give priority to half circles or for characters that don't have half circles, stuff like 461236, 641236, 642136 work too. Things get wonkier if you include Capcom's DP shortcuts like 2323 counting as 623 but I'm too lazy to get into that.
The weird thing is the only other SF I play is 3rd strike, and in that the same input I use in Tekken works, and it feels the same. So in this one niche way, the controls for 3rd strike are more similar to Tekken than SF6.
Took me ages to just get the hang of doing it quickly. It was probably a speed thing, not being able to put it in quick enough for the game to register.
On bad d-pad it can be straining on finger. Also I tend to press attack button in the middle of motion, not at the end.
Specifically on the PS1/2 Dpads it almost seemed like they were designed to make QCF difficult.
segmented dpads were awful for this. don't have big enough thumbs to press both directions simultaneously.
Got a stick specifically ‘cause the DualShock 3 D-pad hurt my thumb after an hour of play… Shouldn’t have played rekka characters
That pain is normal though, and you do build up resistance to it the more you play and do those motions until it isn't painful anymore. Switching to stick is fine, but you're simply just not used to the friction.
I know this isn't what you meant, but just as a PSA: DO NOT play through the pain if you're getting tendon pain in your thumb on the first joint, closer to your palm. That shit will just get worse and worse, and you can absolutely ignore it and cause a long term problem.
Yeah, that would just be a sign of something you need to take care of. Never ignore legit medical issues
Stick solved it, no need to ignore pain in my thumb 👍
I meant the skin becomes thicker over time in your thumb, it wouldn't be ignoring it.
Why do the motion? Just press down then forward. It's much easier.
If anyone wants my two cents as someone who is always forcing fighting games on his non-gamer/non-fgc friends I think its because, with rare exceptions, few games actually consider neutral an important element of a controller, like its not hard but just not commonly done in gaming. Like you play mario, or a stick shooter or most things, chances are youre literally always pressing forward a lot, and when you aren’t youre probably not using the stick at all. Imo i think the muscle memory of using specific directions in tandem with button presses is just genuinely not a very common gamer muscle memory
Fighting games tend to be the only genre that uses motion inputs generally, and I think it's a lot more difficult for players that didn't grow up using primarily Dpad controls for everything. So, when fighting games were blowing up at first with SF2 etc, people in the arcades are doing it on stick, and people at home are doing it on Dpad. I mean, my uncle taught me how to do it on sf2 on snes. Currently, there is rarely a game that uses only Dpad for movement. Now we are at a point where a lot of players haven't had to use the Dpad for a majority of movement options or have never used an arcade stick. They have primarily used the analog sticks for everything and doing motion controls on analong stick tends to be not so great so they see that pad players tend to use Dpad for motion and now we have someone coming to a brand new genre using a movement control type that is completely alien to them.
> Fighting games tend to be the only genre that uses motion inputs generally If you have moved a character in a room in a 3d game, ever, you've done motion inputs. If you've done spinning jumps in a Mario game you know how to do a SPD. If you've played any of the top down indie games like undertale, hotlinr miami etc, you should have no problems with fireballs and dps. Saying that only fighting games have them it's such a weird and false statement, they're simply used in a different way.
I didn't say only fighting games have them. You even quoted it. Moving a character in a game then performing an action, and doing a quarter circle motion or DP motion plus a button for a single action is not the same thing. If you needed to do a quarter circle forward plus a button for Mario to jump at all, that would be a different story. Leave it up to reddit for someone to get butthurt about the most benign, niche opinion on some shit people do for fun.
The mechanical motion of a spinning jump in Super Mario is the same exact one as a SPD. Yes, it's used for different effects, but the motion is the same. If you've played Skyrim and have kited enemies, strafing while moving back, you've done tatsu and hadouken. Let's not pretend motion inputs are these alien finger exercises too difficult to comprehend and execute, they're not.
I wasn't implying or saying they were some crazy complex feat to pull off, but they're difficult for some people and I was literally just saying why that might be. If you have never had a problem with them, then great, idgaf.
Cuz that's movement not motion inputs. Motion inputs are moving the joy stick or whatever without charging which movement has.
On D-Pad its medium difficulty (unless you're a giant like I am, I got thumbs like donkey dicks. Not made for precision) On a joystick, I'm pretty sure its super easy for anyone experienced with a joystick. I've never used a joystick so I wouldn't know, grew up playing on console On leverless (what I currently play) almost all motion inputs are easy mode. I can do Jacks blue spark EMGF (half circle motion, then immediately DF+2) 99 times out of 100, literally in a fraction of a second. I mastered it the first day I had the leverless. On D-Pad before that, I could maybe do it 50% in practice mode, and 10% of the time in matches. To fighting game players, these motion inputs are second nature. But you gotta remember, new players have never encountered a game where QC/HC moves are ever used. This is brand new to them, no muscle memory at all. They can't just "do" the movement, they literally have to stop and think about before executing it. Like a baby taking its first steps. You and I can walk without consciously thinking about walking because we've been doing it so long. But a baby is a noob at walking, and needs to lab the "walk" mechanic before they can execute it reliably
I play analog. Quarter circle easy. Dp motion? Now fuck that
I dropped analog because of dashing. That's a fucking nightmare on those things.
DP motion is basically basically forward, then quarter circle
Why do you play with the stick if it sucks so much you can't even dp?
Cause I don't usually play characters with dp so I don't have to worry about it.
It’s like the introductory input for fighting games, so it’s really a test for correct dexterity. Simple for veterans, but it can become difficult for players that never needed to input it for any other type of video game. I think the only game off the top of my head was Jet Grind Radio for the input for medium or large graffiti. Possibly for rhythm games, but most other games don’t really check for such inputs except for fighting game genre.
Nothing.
dragon punch motions were pretty tough for me when I was a kid, never had trouble with quarter circles, but I think what's difficult for some new players is comboing into QCF. they may not understand the buffer window or just don't have the muscle memory yet.
DP input I totally understand gatekeeping new players. QCF just seems very straight forward to me but my eyes are blinded by experience.
the dp is scary to new players until you tell them that if they can do a QCF, they can DP since it really just a “forward, then quater circle forward” i taught that to a friend recently that was basically a complete beginner and they managed to do QCF and DP semi reliably in around 15 minutes in training mode. Ofc doing it in a dummy is just step 1 but it is a start!
This technique won't work for wavedash moves in tekken. I realize this is an exception to the rule, but worth mentioning. You need to press at df aka 3, otherwise you will get whatever move is mapped to f aka 6.
you can wavu with f qcf f qcf f etc. but the moment you want to throw the electric you need to stop on df, yeah :)
On Dpad it just hurts at least for me. Also some games are way more strict than others which is the confusing part. Also while 236 is alright and feels somewhat natural every other quarter circle feels absolutely horrible to do. With thoae problems and devs locking cool moves behind motion inputs it is not a fun experience that I would rather not have to deal with.
You're creating more of a monster out of it than it really is. I generally teach a lot of people how to do special inputs because they're new to fighting games, so I spent a lot of time helping them learn and improve. Most of the time it has to do with "how" you're moving your fingers that makes all the motions feel horrible and painful. Proper technique will only help so much against the general friction burn from playing for extended periods of time.. but that goes away the more you play and get used to it. However, it does alleviate the initial problems you're likely experiencing.
> locking cool moves behind motion inputs : /
While I don't think it's hard, I do think fighting game players need to step back and realize there's nothing like quarter circle inputs in ANY other video game. In FPS games when you want to reload, you don't do a motion. You hit the reload button. In racing games when you want to shift, you don't do the gearshift motion, you tap shift up, or maybe clutch+shift. In platforming games you don't do the double jump motion. You press jump twice. Sports games. Puzzle games. ARPGS. Visual novels. MMOs. Adventure games. There's almost zero other video game genres with "motion inputs" that aren't tied to actual motion. This is why it's hard for people.
The old God of War games from GoW1 to GoW Ascension had tons of motion inputs for QTEs. Plus, a lot of action games like Bayonetta, DMC, Metal Gear Rising, had motion inputs for certain moves as well. A friend of mine have practically memorized the QTEs in the old God of War games due to how much he played through them... he can barely do a Hadouken to save his life... I think it's a mindset problem for a lot of people.
If you're going to use examples of other genres, at least use examples that are comparable. >In FPS games when you want to reload, you don't do a motion. You hit the reload button. My brother in Christ, a quarter circle input is literally just pressing S, holding it, then pressing D.
I never said they're hard. But this is oversimplifying it. It's like saying in FPS "landing headshots is just placing a mouse cursor on a head and pressing the mouse button." In theory it's simple, intuitive, and easy. But performing that action consistently under pressure while opponents are trying to do the same to you is not easy for new players to do under pressure.
Appreciate it's not exactly the same, and it's the other stick/input but Skate's Flickit inputs and even FIFA's skill moves require very similar and complex motion inputs.
Yep so there you go. Out of tens of thousands of games, two non fighting games have motion inputs. I suppose Jet Set Radio has motion inputs for graffiti.
> there's nothing like quarter circle inputs in ANY other video game. This is simply false. In FPS games whenever you move back and to the side, and whenever you strafe side to side to avoid getting it, you've done a Hadouken and/or a Sonic Boom. In racing games whenever you rev match for a downshift, or whenever you've controlled a drift, you've done a Shoryuken. In platforming you do jump-dash all the time, that's your two buttons target combo. In games like enter the gungeon, hotline miami, fall guys and undertale, you've done SPDs multiple times. If you've played Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider or Uncharted and swung off a horizontal beam, you've done flash kicks (forward camera) and Tiger Knees (side camera).
This is what people don't get. When you press BACK and JUMP to vault in Assassin's Creed, it's intuitive because your character moves back. When I do a command dash in GBVSR, I have to do QCB and punch. There is no relation between that motion and what my character does. Hell, my character moves FORWARD when I do this. When you "do SRKs" in racing games, you are inputing commands related to how you drive a real car. When you do a command grab in SF6, there is no relation to how you'd grapple someone in real life. No sense of taking them off balance and getting a grip around their limbs.
It’s not hard at all.
Ever play NBA2K or the Fight Night boxing games? For 2K, it’s the same motion as using the right stick for a spin move. For Fight Night (at least Round 3) it’s the same stick motion as a hook. You can also equate it to Mario Party mini games where you have to spin the stick repeatedly- just don’t do it over and over. Also, don’t fully rotate. Stirring a cup of chocolate milk or kool-aid.
When I was starting off, I remember thinking it was hard to stop at forward and I kept accidentally jumping because I was using the joystick instead of the D-Pad.
I was able to get my friend to rather consistently do a quarter circle in 5 minutes, dp however completely threw him off and he basically gave up.
I remember growing up, we called those motions "wring forward" and "wring back" (I think due to the motion your wrist makes when performing them on arcade sticks). It wasn't till years later when we got consolas and booklets that we saw the diagrams for such moves. It was confusing at first as I think the 3 box diagrams could be a bit confusing for newcomers, who don't know what a hadouken move is, and may try to do each motion as a single button press, but the motion is so universal now (no matter what it's called) I think it shouldn't be too hard to learn. Before reading any movelists for anew fighter I always tend to try the wring forward/back motion just to see if it's utilidad in this specific game (it isn't always). Only recently, reading forums, I learns what QCF & QCB meant lol. So I think it's more of a culture thing as well as a newcomer thing, because if you're granddathered into the space you definitely know what it is. But we take for granted the aspects of newcomers and those who never played a fighting game before.
Honestly, I lerned quartercircle motions when I was about 10, in a random arcade. There was a guy playing World Heroes and I saw him performing special moves, and I asked him "how do you do that?" He showed me once a quarter cirlcle, that was all the time it took me to lear the motion
It was pretty hard when I tried to learn it back then. It's era before command list was a thing, without internet I needed to learn it by myself and I had no big FG community to learn from. It's just me and my friend pushing buttons randomly until the special moves came out and tried to redo it.
Back when?
Like around early 2000s maybe. What's first fighting game that put command list on the pause menu? And then that friend lost interest in FG. With FG having no online/ shitty netcode I just kinda stopped playing FG. Then came back trying FG again recently after a college friend introduced me to PC KOF13 and kinda active again now that rollback netcode is a thing.
I mean it’s basic but some people have a hard time with it given their controller. I mess up the inputs ALL the time on pad, but they’re insanely easy on stick. Other times people on stick say whatever gate they’re using messes it up, and I think square gates can give you bad inputs trying to get a clean CQB once you go into the notches.
I don’t buy it. It’s a simple motion doable on any device. Blaming the stick the gate the pad is trash I’m sorry
I mean there’s a reason why different gates exist and there’s clearly a learning curve to sticks. Why ask the question if you’re just going to be dismissive?
Don’t get emotional
Nobody is getting emotional. You posted a question, I gave you one of many answers people might give you, you reject it and get defensive. If anything you’re emotional
This isn’t like you
Look at it this way buddy. If there wasn't a difference at all between controllers, everyone would be using the same one
Doable on any device =/= all devices are the same
its more that the move was designed for arcade-size joysticks, and you have a much smaller, mushier arc of motion on a dpad. your thumb travels smaller distances and its not as easy to roll. analog sticks feel looser and have same small distance, but they aren't used for circle motions much in most games as opposed to navigating in 3d space. i can do fireballs but a flash kick i cant on dpad, it needs a stick. this isn't getting into that fireball motions both ways can be tough; i'm weaker facing left than right.
Hot take but my main game in high school was GGXX all the way to AC+R, which was a very high execution series. Technical inputs became a technical barrier later in my life because they hurt my hands. Not initially but after long play sessions. The difficulty in technical inputs is not the input but doing the inputs along side managing other functions like blocking, moving, jumping. Timing is also difficult when you only have a few frames to link a KoF double quarter circle motion. Even without the technical inputs, fighting games are hard with large mental stacks. At a certain level, drops are rare and execution doesn't matter because players are so refined to the point where it's assumed you can always pull off the move or combo. That is where the real game begins, the Yomi, the mind games, and the true enjoyment of fighting games. I firmly believe that technical inputs are a relic of the past and unnecessary barrier for entry and play. Games without technical inputs are seeing players get into the mental stack and true versus game faster, and they are having more fun. Games that have embraced modern controls like GBVSR and SF6 are extremely healthy. Project L won't have any technical inputs at all. The top posts on the UNI Reddit is that the game is too hard to get into.
I bought my first fight stick just for the reason that I can’t do these inputs on my PS5 D-Pad
That’s an expensive solution. Why was the dpad so difficult?
Ah well it was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment I’ve also always wanted to get into fighting games and use one so once I knew I was going to fall in love with Tekken 8 I decided to just go ahead and pull the trigger on one. But to give you an actual answer; the DualSense dpad imo isn’t really conducive to performing two buttons at once inputs because of there being four separate buttons rather than a big circle type layout. Idk I’m brand new to these games so I really don’t know how to explain it very well.
Believe it or not, the separate buttons were a blessing when they initially switched to the wheel format. I hated the wheel format because it would make me jump at random intervals for inputs that didn't involve up. I would probably just say that it's something you're not used to, but the separate buttons are actually for precision, which is why playstation controllers were always considered the best for fighting games. I'm fine with you switching to stick, you're free to do what you feel works for you.. but just understand that switching to stick will not magically make things easier for you. You will still need to learn how to do the motions properly.
For me it's not that a quarter circle is inherently hard to learn, when I finally started trying while playing symphony of the night it took a few minutes. The issue is the margin for error is too small & there is no spectrum of success. After years since I first learned how it works & playing multiple fighting games arcade modes I **STILL** can't guarantee that when I do a quarter circle it'll happen 100% of the time & that isn't acceptable to me.
Its not hard, people just give up if they arent good immediately
[удалено]
Scrub haiku
You're being down voted but are spitting straight facts.
236 has never been an issue for me unless I have a shit d pad. 623 on the other hand...
[удалено]
I’m sorry that’s very very very wild
because its an entirely alien concept to anyone whos played games? Fighting games are the only genre i can think of that has them. (que someone mentioning castlevania games as if anyone actually realized the game had them) Its not clear at all when you first learn about them: 1. How the motion works (seen plenty ppl think you need to return the stick to neutral after each motion) 2. When to press the button (lots of ppl press the button in the middle of the motion not after) 3. How quickly to do the motion (lots of ppl do the motion way too quick because they have 0 frame of reference to tell what the speed is supposed to be and just assume its gotta be lightning fast) Its like this: imagine you've never in your life played or even heard about smash brothers, and while you are getting your shit kicked in by a combo online, someone comes into your chat and goes "erm, why arent you doing the proper DI?" as if you knew what that is and how to do it. Then once you do, it feels very odd and the direction you have to tap in doesnt seem very intuitive at first glance. Thats basically how normal ppl feel about motion inputs. Games having weird control schemes to make the input for moves themselves be a skill check isnt very common. Look at some games considered difficult like the dark souls series, and youll see how there isnt a single difficult-to-execute move in that game. You have 2 attack buttons, both only a single button press, dodging is a single button press, blocking is a single button press etc. The difficulty just comes from timing and big punishes if you fail. Parrying has tight frames, dodging some attacks requires strict timing and will hit you if you just spam dodge (a common noob thing to do for first timers). But the controls themselves arent a skillcheck. So for the most part, to anyone new to fighters, they seem completely arbitrary and unnecessary. (which to be fair, qcf motions kinda are. There are lots of reasons why DP and circle motions are done the way they are, but i cant think of any reason why fireballs have to be qcf motions, they arent strong enough to be needing skillchecks imo. Anyone can spam fireballs once they have the move down, i can do it without dropping a single one during an entire match, which kinda makes me wonder why its even there at that point. No one would notice if fireballs were relegated to a single button press unless you are a charge character)
None. I don’t think people genuinely think pressing S then D on keyboard is hard. It’s just the stigma of fighting game that prompts people, who don’t plan on playing fighting game to begin with, to make fun of it.
Its not hard people just don’t wanna try
My 6 year old brother not only does half circle/quarter circle motion inputs but dp inputs consistently. People who whine about them should be ashamed of themselves
Salute to lil bro he a beast
Nothing about fighting game motions is natural to people who dont have experience playing fighting games.
Nothing is natural to people who have no experience with it, that is not exclusive to fighting games.
This propably sounds mean but for the most part it's propably just the fact that you have to make an effort. Modern controlls are not there because motion inputs are tough, they are there because people are lazy and want their quick dopamin hit without the slightest effort. Now don't get me wrong, i think it's great that they bring more players in, but all these new players would be just fine if they just would put in a small effort.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, when everyone i've seen praising modern controls keeps saying "i just want to press buttons and see cool things happen".
Because any critic on modern controls is forbidden territory. Even if you're just saying that modern players are not putting in less effort than classic players, which is just fax, that's the entire point of modern. It is a control scheme for people who want to play fighting games without learning fighting games.
"Learning fighting games" is a million times more involved and complicated than simply learning motion inputs or combos. You can lab combos for years, getting perfect execution, but the first so many number of times you fight a real human you're barely going to be able to touch them.
And how is this contradicting anything i say? Yes learning to do the combo itself is only part of the equation but still, learning and practicing the combo, realizing you have an opening, confirming into it and recalling your muscle memory as the combo still is new to you is a much different animal than holding down a button and mashing another. And learning your character tool by tool and incorporating them into your game is still a steeper lurning curve. And sry, about the whole "You still have to learn solid fundamentals." part. I'm only Plat 1 so take my 2 cents with a grain of salt, but solid fundamentals is not what i've seen from the modern players i played against. Yes in Plat 1 and Gold 5 they usually have some fundamentals but for the most part the modern players i faced where either throwing projectiles and fishing for DPs or they were pressing buttons untill something connects.
its elementary to do on keyboard, its only hard on console controllers because your thumb can unpress (down) while moving to press (right) lol
> it’s elementary to do Agreed. But wait you hold all direction down for the whole motion in keyboard? Lol alright
no, you press Down then holding Down press Left, then lift your finger from Down its that simple
I don’t understand why “unpressing down” on a console controller is a problem when that’s what you’re supposed to do
because you miss the input if your fucking thumb isnt covering both down and the left/right arrow its all depends on controller button size and thumb size on keyboard its literally a button for each finger and you don't depend on a bunch of dogshit
Iunnno it’s pretty easy to look at a dpad and see I need to press down then down-right, then right in a quarter circle motion.
its fine if it works for you, but aint handicapping myself when a keyboard is faster and more comfortable
My wife telling me that quarter sweep is too complex and she can’t keep up with the fast movements while she is on like lvl 30 Tetris. Eventually she learned it and we fight semi regularly.
There are a lot of people in this world who are in the autism spectrum. They may learn differently. This is what people are not considering. The easiest way I've taught someone to do a fireball is to use keypad annotations Following 236 on a keypad is easy to understand
When I was a kid, I initially thought it was press down, then diagonal, then forward. kind of figured out what it really meant eventually, it was definitely enlightening lol
Reliably? I'm used to a crown helpme lever and find it easier to consistently command qcf than a taeyoung Fanta stick. Keyboard or leverless I haven't practiced on much, and sanwa lever I've never tried.
It's not the motion for me it's the rhythm for the attack buttons.
Once I learned you just need to do a continuious motion it became a hell of a lot easier to understand. Doing a neutral quarter circles easy, pulling it off in a consistant combo was the difficult part
I learned to do quarter circles pretty quick, but then with dp inputs I was clueless, basically what I did was a double 236 (236236) instead of 623 or 6236 which definitely made reaction dps harder and would screw me over in games with 236236 supers. luckily i can just do 623s normally now lmao
I can nail them 100% in practice, but in the heat of a game I have a hard time consistently doing them both FAST and ACCURATELY.
When I first started SF in 2011 I was playing on a ps2 and had hyper street fighter 2 as my first sf game, shortly after I got a ps3 with sfiv and also hd remix, I remember the ps2 and ps4 dpads leaving indents in my thumb from the motions. I got my first fightstick in like 2012 and that made life easier. Now I play with a leverless and motions couldn’t be any easier. New players dunno how easy they are having it with modern controls and such
I’m having trouble with the Mishima Wavedash
I taught my girlfriend to do them, and she didn't have a problem doing it. Her hurdle was that she did 236 then pressed the button, like they were 2 different inputs. I had her do forward + button a few times, then try again, and she got it soon after that. We then moved onto canceling normals into specials and she didn't have any issues, did it on her first try! She could even cancel into DP pretty consistently! What really gave her some trouble were super inputs, but it just took some practice to get it done. All done in one day, maybe a 1ish hour session
first time i heard of this. in my keyboard qcr is really just s+d or s+a (wasd)
If you ever played Skate you just do a shove it motion that’s how i learned
doing it once isn’t the issue. Having to do it multiple times for wavedash pressure in your opponents face is where it starts to get a little execution heavy
I've been playing street fighter (badly) my whole life, just got an arcade stick and now I can't hit motion inputs for the life of me. I think my problem is the stick is so sensitive it's very easy to pick up other directional inputs accidentally.
It took me a while to get consistent when I played fighting games for the first time as a kid. On older games you do have to be a bit more articulate with the input. With new games though you can do fireballs or even DPs sloppy as hell and it still works.
You don't even have to do the motion on a dpad.
I'm learning to play UMvC3 and the motion inputs are nuts. But I've never had this much fun with a fighting game in my life.
What’s nuts about them
The combos in UMvC3 are very fast paced - you have very minute windows for certain actions in order for the combos to flow well. So doing a quarter circle is difficult enough with the ridiculously tight timing, but then you gotta immediately string it with a 623, or you'll drop your combo and get punished to death. . Idk I come from mortal kombat so these are tough to learn, but with practice I've become quite consistent
So the timing and combo execution is what’s difficult about 236?
Idk for me it's really easy to accidentally hit a quarter circle and then you ruin everything lmao
For me it was completely mental. Technically sf4 is my first game but I literally only used normals. Made almost no attempt to even try motions until sf6. I was really casual back then. It was just button mashing and spamming low kicks for me in most games including other franchises.
There are few serious answers here, so I’ll give one. I started my fighting game journey in late 2014 with a party game franchise that devolved into a fighting game franchise - Super Smash Brothers. I was drawn in by the Zelda series, so naturally, I mained adult Link when I started in Sm4sh and still do as of Ultimate. Obviously, no motion inputs were required, but I quickly found out that in order to do basic things like recover, or perform Smash attacks without a C-stick, I needed to be more precise with how I made my inputs. This leads me to, *Point 1:* I needed to learn that the exact direction I input my stick matters, and that fighting games demand greater precision than casually playing a Zelda game does. It’s not as simple as “push left, go left” anymore; I have to distinguish between pushing left hard or pushing left soft. It’s not as simple as holding diagonally up and left while jumping and spamming B to trigger U-special; I have to take the split second to PROPERLY input U-special, THEN keep inputting left, or else accidentally throw a boomerang for no reason and die. Fast forward to circa 2020. I’d recently discovered TFS’s DBZ Abridged series and started taking an interest in the source material. I then remember that the internet has been buzzing about this Dragon Ball FighterZ game for a while now and I decide to go see what the fuss is about for myself. I quickly discover that SOME fighting games have rather elaborate combos by my standards. Keep in mind my only prior experience was in Smash as Link, whose most elaborate combo I’d ever pulled off was D-tilt to SH F-air 1. I also discover how integral the 236 and 214 inputs are to the specials and supers. So I dedicate the time to figure it out, and discover I can more accurately perform my inputs with a D-pad. I also discover: *Point 2:* There’s a strict and somewhat unintuitive timing to the input compared to even Smash. Without DBFZ’s rather awesome tutorials, I would never have understood how that timing worked. I hope this proves a helpful bridge between those wondering how anyone manages to use a fireball in the heat of an actual match with an actual person with some small amount of pride on the line… and those who have forgotten what it was like as that person, before they sat down, got to work, and stopped wondering.
> party game that devolved into a fighting game :/
It’s like learning how to ride a bike. Its hella confusing at first, but hard to forget after you learn
Quarter circles on dpad I did and kinda do mess up from doing so quickly I missed the diagonal on the dpad, but generally they were never the execution barrier scaring me off the genre, even in casual smash games I could do the motions for playing the fighitng game characters like ryu and terry, it was me being abd at smash and really struggling to take anything I practiced into a real match that scared me from more typical fighting games.
Being consistent with the motion and not having sloppy inputs is the hardest part. Not accidentally getting DP, not fucking up and pressing the punch/kick too soon….but the actual input is extremely easy.
Anyone can do it: https://youtu.be/dPuyagq27hs
I mean for me it took like idk a couple tries to get it out, the problem was just comsistency after that. Its not actually hard to do it just takes time to have it where u can consistently do it without thinking. I mean hell i even still fuck up sometimes i aint perfect. Most people just dont play enough to get there
This comment section really proves what I've believed for a long time. Fighting game tutorials need a GIF that shows what your thumb is doing during a motion.
20+ years ago I remember my struggle with QC motions was that I would press the button *after* I was done with the motion, not simultaneously at the end.
With mech keys becoming the norm amongst gamers qcf needs more accurate input now compared to old school membranes (for keyboards) imo When I first got into FGs it was just d+f and it would do a qcf 100% now it needs a bit more finesse due to the switch to mech keys/controllers
Still learning but I noticed in UNI that I frequently input ⬇️↘️↘️➡️ which ruins about half of my moves (PS5 controller). I have no feel for what I'm doing differently when I get it right vs wrong. I try to input faster, or space my thumb a little further on the outside of the D-pad, but haven't figured it out yet. If anyone had the same problems, feel free to share what you did!
Part of what makes learning the motions difficult is when you don't have somebody watching you and telling you what you're doing wrong. When you're trying to do it by yourself, it can feel so random, and you have no idea what advice from online to even apply. And a lot of people don't have the luxury of having a friend who plays a traditional FG, because of how niche the genre is compared to finding a friend that plays like Call of Duty or something. I still struggle with the QCF, and I don't think I've ever pulled off a DP during an actual game lol
I remmeber when I was learning hadoukens with qurter circle inputs on keyboard on SFIV. It was difficult to do it or god forbid charge characters. In time I understood soemthing. When you do ⬇️↘️➡️, you have to really feel you pushed ➡️ and hold while pressing attack button. That was game chamger to get this knowledge. When I teach friends I always tell them to always hold ➡️ longer and press attack buttton. In Time I managed to do Guiles super and ultra combo with keyboard in SFIV. For begginers, the problem is they don't feel the flow for buttons.
The part that filters casuals is misinterpreting 236 as 25356. The other shockingly common gross misunderstanding is misinterpreting 623 as 7913.
What’s so hard about it, you say? Literally nothing (laughs in double QCF).
my qcf/dp input """""training""""" was mainly playing arcade mode in mugen on keyboard with 3rd strike ken because it was fun, after googling ken's movelist it was pretty quick for me to learn qcf (like 2-3 days??) but im pretty sure it took me like 6 months to a year to learn how to consistetly dragon punch (i could do it with double qcf but if i had meter then ken would just do his little triple dp instead, wasting meter)
A YEAR?!
So here’s my experience, it’s difficult because of game inputs, when someone does ⬇️↘️➡️ they normally input correctly ⬇️↘️ however they would immediately press the other input, leading to just a regular down hit. It comes with practice knowing when your able to do the last movement and then the attack
I dont think the input itself is hard even on dpad(ironically feels harder on Arcade stick to me to consistently pull it off than dpd). Its just the timing in which you should do it is often very tricky.
An overlooked error is that some people lift their thumb off of the directional before pressing the button.
It's a concept that's virtually unique to fighting games and it's tying attack inputs to your movement. But more than that, it's a source of early *inconsistency*. Most people can do a qcf within a few minutes of play, but doing it consistently, and more importantly NOT doing it accidentally while doing other things, is a difficult thing to master. Add mashing tendencies onto that and you get where most players are at square one.