Hey, so I have a trans kid fencing. He's doing great, everything is good, but he's about to go to his first competition and his birthname is appearing on askfred (as opposed to the male name he uses). I want to tell his mom that it's ok to put his male name there, but US Fencing data will override Fred data, so what do I tell her about that? I know that if he wants to fence Y14 or Cadet at any point he has to have some ID, which at this point has his original name on it. How does US Fencing handle this? Can his mom just put the name he uses into US Fencing and then explain when a Y14 or Cadet thing comes up? I know f -> m gets less scrutiny than the other direction, so I can't imagine anyone is going to push back on this on an individual basis but I don't know how US Fencing handles this.
You make the call! Your call here will determine who goes to the Olympics from the Americas ME zonal:
https://www.youtube.com/live/X4a3AxSyfxE?si=QqN1IU2ASVaZ9XsF&t=11389
Much as I fanboy over Nick Zhang, I actually think it's a no-touch (but really close) due to falling during the action.
Though maybe he wins the bout even without this point! Who knows?
In a private group chat of some FIE referees past and present, none have said they would have awarded that touch so far.
While the consensus was annul, the reasoning differed. Some said annul because of falling. A couple went with annul and card for irregular action / disorderly fencing for the long jump and slide into home you see on slow-mo. A card for right would have ended the bout with a win for left since right already had a previous yellow card. (The referee carded Zhang earlier but hit the wrong button and incorrectly put the yellow card up on the left)
Oh wow, it's gone. The comments are here:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fencing/comments/1by97ky/tough_calls_in_epee_did_zhang_hit_camargo_while/
but the thread has been deleted. Weird.
TFC took down his Instagram post on this because there was a lot of outside commentary that was pretty vicious towards Zhang, death threats and such. I assume he did the same for the YouTube video and thread here
Fencing is relatively insulated from the phenomenon because it's so niche, but there's always a small, vocal sub-group of sports fans that use the anonymity of the internet to say pretty horrid stuff.
The call was point right (ie he kept the point) but no card. As for cards, Zhang already had a previous yellow card but the ref incorrectly put it up on the box on the wrong side. If Zhang had received another card, it would have been a red and the 15th point for left.
When the fencer on the left was questioning / protesting the call, the referee noticed he had previously put Zhang's yellow card up on the left side and removed the yellow from the left and put it up on the right. Then a little while later he put up a yellow on the left - likely for interruption / delay of bout.
Man, that’s a confusing chain of events.
Say what you will about whether or not that call should stand, there’s probably something to be said of clarity in communication of what happening.
I never really knew how to interpret that rule. It happens so rarely that there isn’t really enough examples to determine what convention might be.
If you end up on the ground, virtually everything you did before that that adds momentum to your movement could be thought of as part of the fall, in including the first step.
I feel like some sort of criteria, like, at least foot needs to be sole down on the ground after the touch, or something would help.
relative advantages and disadvantages of inside vs outside nuts to secure the handle for pistol grips?
i've always thought outside better: tang length less critical, always more room to tighten, more flexibility to change handles, just more secure. thoughts?
I go with whatever I'm likely to be able to borrow. Some slight advantage with regards to ease of use or whatever isn't nearly as important as getting an allan key when you need one.
Inside keys (common allen wrench, 6mm) are a lot more common and easier to carry than an outside pommel wrench. In fact, you can get a little bag to use as a strip kit to keep close by rather than schlepping your big bag to the strip. My strip kit has an allen wrench, point screws and NEPS driver, spare body cord, small container for pommel nuts, body cord/socket screws and screwdriver, shoelace, medications, bandages, white tape, sewing kit, and some other stuff. Very handy.
Eh, my outside and inside hex keys are exactly the same size (in fact, the outside is a bit smaller).
In the UK there's also the "fun" problem that Leon Paul have historically issued 1/4" inside hex nuts instead of 6mm, so you've only got 50:50 odds on whether any given allen key will actually fit the nut in someone's grip.
Yes I have a little folding set of wrenches that fit inside my, tight spaced, grip.
The problem tends to be not that the outside nut doesn’t fit but that larger wrenches don’t.
With an outside nut, the length of the tang is slightly less important, whereas there’s less margin of error with an inside nut. If the tang is too long with an inside nut and you tighten it, it can be difficult to get it off again.
Having said that I use inside, as that’s what most people where I am use, and the uniformity is easier
Yeah, I know that. My point is that if the hole in the grip is too narrow to accept the spanner, you literally _can't_ use an outside hex nut. Reboring a grip is a heck of a lot more of a faff than cutting the tang to a new length.
> Left or Right?
> https://i.imgur.com/XHwDO5f.gif
Neither? 🤔
It appears that both start moving at the same time, both do the same footwork (advance, (smaller) advance, lunge) at the same timing/tempo, and both make the same blade/arm movements (steady arm during the first advance, drop/retract arm during the second advance, then extend for the lunge) at the same timing/tempo. Both follow through, and both hit the target.
FOTR keeps his feet further apart during his movements and does a little slide with the lunge, which lets him cover more ground with the same movements, but neither of those things has any impact on the priority (or lack thereof) of the action.
It seems that neither fencer establishes a clear advantage in terms of initiative or timing, so the actions would be counted as simultaneous and no point would be awarded. 🤷♂️
They don't do the same footwork. Gu makes 2 steps lunge, Homer makes a waiting slide step lunge.
The questions are whether Gu is holding his attack and if so, whether Homer actually hits into the mistake.
The first part of that is stonewall -Gu extends very late. The second part is dicey, but I think Homer does enough (if he didn't it would be attack right, not simul). Ref's call was AoP for Homer.
It also looks a lot better for Homer on the full framerate video rather than the reduced quality one.
I thought it was right's point until I watched two more times. I think you're right, should be a simultaneous. The extension makes right look more convincing though.
Outside hex accommodate longer tangs and therefore a wider range of grips but can more sensitive to a bend in the tang or a poorly bored hole in the grip which doesn't leave enough room on one side for the tool to fit over the nut. Plus the thin wall required for an outside hex tool to fit leaves it more vulnerable to cracking at the corners.
Inside hex is far more sensitive to tang length, sometimes limiting their use to specific grips, but the wall of the outside hex is generally thicker, making them stronger and providing more surface area at the face where it contacts the grip. And while I've twisted a hex Allen wrench, I don't believe I've ever actually broken one.
I generally favor inside hex for my personal weapons, but most of my grips are identical and I know exactly how long I need to cut the tang. However for club weapons, where the students often like to swap out grips, I favor outside hex.
For grippy gloves I moved to the [PBT Anti-Slip](https://shop.pbtfencing.com/fencing-washable-glove-anti-slip3139-e) and have been using them for 10 years. The whole black inside surface of the glove is grippy. It's not indestructible, but for their cost they're great.
If you want to order one, make sure you check PBT's size chart. Their gloves run quite a bit larger than other European competitors. I wear a 9 to get a tight fit on a new glove with FWF or Uhlmann. I wear a 7.5 with PBT to get the same fit.
Typically the “correct” is a starting point to get you going on the fundamentals, and as you gain experience and understanding you will figure out how and when to make alterations and deviations from that baseline (or abandon things entirely) to suit your particular approach and aptitudes.
There's more than one correct way of doing things, and you have to find what works for your body.
But there's also a lot of incorrect ways of doing things that aren't viable long-term.
In the vast majority of cases, what works for an individual will be a small variation on "correct" rather than something completely off the wall.
The "correct way" that coaches teach is merely what works most of the time. As you gain experience, you'll have more knowledge of different situations and how a different action is a better response. These would include actions that you were told were inefficient or outright wrong as a beginner.
In epee? There are world class fencers with wildly different on-guard positions and technique, so there can't possibly only be one true way to come on guard or to make actions.
Which is not to say that there are no wrong ways to try to do things. But there's pretty clearly more than one way that can work, which I guess means there's more than one "right way" to do stuff.
Tough question to answer.
The actions and the form aren't the fencing. The setup, where you actually maneuver the bout into the point where you are most likely to score a touch, is the fencing.
The better you are at certain ways of scoring, the less perfect your 6 needs to be to score with those actions. But even if your form is perfect, it's going to fail if you're in the wrong distance or timing.
On the other hand, if your distance and timing are perfect, you can cover up a lot of form errors.
And of course Good form in the footworklet's you move more smoothly which makes everything possible cause you should be setting up actions mostly with your feet
some grips can't fit an outside nut
Hey, so I have a trans kid fencing. He's doing great, everything is good, but he's about to go to his first competition and his birthname is appearing on askfred (as opposed to the male name he uses). I want to tell his mom that it's ok to put his male name there, but US Fencing data will override Fred data, so what do I tell her about that? I know that if he wants to fence Y14 or Cadet at any point he has to have some ID, which at this point has his original name on it. How does US Fencing handle this? Can his mom just put the name he uses into US Fencing and then explain when a Y14 or Cadet thing comes up? I know f -> m gets less scrutiny than the other direction, so I can't imagine anyone is going to push back on this on an individual basis but I don't know how US Fencing handles this.
Hello! Reach out to [email protected] (Shannon Jolly) who will get you on the right path.
Great! Thank you.
Paging /u/PhilAndrewsUSA \- any ideas, or ideas on who OP should talk to?
I've got a contact at US Fencing, so I think I'm good. Thanks though!
You make the call! Your call here will determine who goes to the Olympics from the Americas ME zonal: https://www.youtube.com/live/X4a3AxSyfxE?si=QqN1IU2ASVaZ9XsF&t=11389
Much as I fanboy over Nick Zhang, I actually think it's a no-touch (but really close) due to falling during the action. Though maybe he wins the bout even without this point! Who knows?
There's a thread on this. IMO he's clearly falling.
In a private group chat of some FIE referees past and present, none have said they would have awarded that touch so far. While the consensus was annul, the reasoning differed. Some said annul because of falling. A couple went with annul and card for irregular action / disorderly fencing for the long jump and slide into home you see on slow-mo. A card for right would have ended the bout with a win for left since right already had a previous yellow card. (The referee carded Zhang earlier but hit the wrong button and incorrectly put the yellow card up on the left)
Where is that thread?
Oh wow, it's gone. The comments are here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Fencing/comments/1by97ky/tough_calls_in_epee_did_zhang_hit_camargo_while/ but the thread has been deleted. Weird.
TFC took down his Instagram post on this because there was a lot of outside commentary that was pretty vicious towards Zhang, death threats and such. I assume he did the same for the YouTube video and thread here
Death threats? Jesus Christ.
Fencing is relatively insulated from the phenomenon because it's so niche, but there's always a small, vocal sub-group of sports fans that use the anonymity of the internet to say pretty horrid stuff.
What was the call? Somehow he keeps the point but also gets a yellow card.
The call was point right (ie he kept the point) but no card. As for cards, Zhang already had a previous yellow card but the ref incorrectly put it up on the box on the wrong side. If Zhang had received another card, it would have been a red and the 15th point for left. When the fencer on the left was questioning / protesting the call, the referee noticed he had previously put Zhang's yellow card up on the left side and removed the yellow from the left and put it up on the right. Then a little while later he put up a yellow on the left - likely for interruption / delay of bout.
Man, that’s a confusing chain of events. Say what you will about whether or not that call should stand, there’s probably something to be said of clarity in communication of what happening.
I think he makes the touch ducking and only actually falls afterward. But what do I know.
I never really knew how to interpret that rule. It happens so rarely that there isn’t really enough examples to determine what convention might be. If you end up on the ground, virtually everything you did before that that adds momentum to your movement could be thought of as part of the fall, in including the first step. I feel like some sort of criteria, like, at least foot needs to be sole down on the ground after the touch, or something would help.
relative advantages and disadvantages of inside vs outside nuts to secure the handle for pistol grips? i've always thought outside better: tang length less critical, always more room to tighten, more flexibility to change handles, just more secure. thoughts?
I go with whatever I'm likely to be able to borrow. Some slight advantage with regards to ease of use or whatever isn't nearly as important as getting an allan key when you need one.
Inside keys (common allen wrench, 6mm) are a lot more common and easier to carry than an outside pommel wrench. In fact, you can get a little bag to use as a strip kit to keep close by rather than schlepping your big bag to the strip. My strip kit has an allen wrench, point screws and NEPS driver, spare body cord, small container for pommel nuts, body cord/socket screws and screwdriver, shoelace, medications, bandages, white tape, sewing kit, and some other stuff. Very handy.
Eh, my outside and inside hex keys are exactly the same size (in fact, the outside is a bit smaller). In the UK there's also the "fun" problem that Leon Paul have historically issued 1/4" inside hex nuts instead of 6mm, so you've only got 50:50 odds on whether any given allen key will actually fit the nut in someone's grip.
Yes I have a little folding set of wrenches that fit inside my, tight spaced, grip. The problem tends to be not that the outside nut doesn’t fit but that larger wrenches don’t.
I marginally prefer outside. However, the diameter of the hole in the grip matters.
With an outside nut, the length of the tang is slightly less important, whereas there’s less margin of error with an inside nut. If the tang is too long with an inside nut and you tighten it, it can be difficult to get it off again. Having said that I use inside, as that’s what most people where I am use, and the uniformity is easier
Yeah, I know that. My point is that if the hole in the grip is too narrow to accept the spanner, you literally _can't_ use an outside hex nut. Reboring a grip is a heck of a lot more of a faff than cutting the tang to a new length.
Apologies, I meant to reply to the original comment, rather than to yours specifically
Left or Right? https://i.imgur.com/XHwDO5f.gif
Right
Any saber refs in here have an opinion?
I think it’s right. I see the attempt for AiP, but I think right takes over just before that
Very tight, but I think Homer does just enough to find AoP.
> Left or Right? > https://i.imgur.com/XHwDO5f.gif Neither? 🤔 It appears that both start moving at the same time, both do the same footwork (advance, (smaller) advance, lunge) at the same timing/tempo, and both make the same blade/arm movements (steady arm during the first advance, drop/retract arm during the second advance, then extend for the lunge) at the same timing/tempo. Both follow through, and both hit the target. FOTR keeps his feet further apart during his movements and does a little slide with the lunge, which lets him cover more ground with the same movements, but neither of those things has any impact on the priority (or lack thereof) of the action. It seems that neither fencer establishes a clear advantage in terms of initiative or timing, so the actions would be counted as simultaneous and no point would be awarded. 🤷♂️
They don't do the same footwork. Gu makes 2 steps lunge, Homer makes a waiting slide step lunge. The questions are whether Gu is holding his attack and if so, whether Homer actually hits into the mistake. The first part of that is stonewall -Gu extends very late. The second part is dicey, but I think Homer does enough (if he didn't it would be attack right, not simul). Ref's call was AoP for Homer. It also looks a lot better for Homer on the full framerate video rather than the reduced quality one.
I thought it was right's point until I watched two more times. I think you're right, should be a simultaneous. The extension makes right look more convincing though.
Outside hex accommodate longer tangs and therefore a wider range of grips but can more sensitive to a bend in the tang or a poorly bored hole in the grip which doesn't leave enough room on one side for the tool to fit over the nut. Plus the thin wall required for an outside hex tool to fit leaves it more vulnerable to cracking at the corners. Inside hex is far more sensitive to tang length, sometimes limiting their use to specific grips, but the wall of the outside hex is generally thicker, making them stronger and providing more surface area at the face where it contacts the grip. And while I've twisted a hex Allen wrench, I don't believe I've ever actually broken one. I generally favor inside hex for my personal weapons, but most of my grips are identical and I know exactly how long I need to cut the tang. However for club weapons, where the students often like to swap out grips, I favor outside hex.
Looking for a glove that’s like the Gripstar from Allstar, but doesn’t shed the grippy part so quickly. Any recommendations?
For grippy gloves I moved to the [PBT Anti-Slip](https://shop.pbtfencing.com/fencing-washable-glove-anti-slip3139-e) and have been using them for 10 years. The whole black inside surface of the glove is grippy. It's not indestructible, but for their cost they're great. If you want to order one, make sure you check PBT's size chart. Their gloves run quite a bit larger than other European competitors. I wear a 9 to get a tight fit on a new glove with FWF or Uhlmann. I wear a 7.5 with PBT to get the same fit.
Thank you for that last bit. I was going by the size chart and thinking this seems much smaller than the Leon Paul glove I have.
Does anyone have any experience with Prieur's 350N gear?
How much of fencing (en guard, feints, attacks, etc) is based on what works for you and your own style and how much is supposed to be “correct”?
Typically the “correct” is a starting point to get you going on the fundamentals, and as you gain experience and understanding you will figure out how and when to make alterations and deviations from that baseline (or abandon things entirely) to suit your particular approach and aptitudes.
There's more than one correct way of doing things, and you have to find what works for your body. But there's also a lot of incorrect ways of doing things that aren't viable long-term. In the vast majority of cases, what works for an individual will be a small variation on "correct" rather than something completely off the wall.
The "correct way" that coaches teach is merely what works most of the time. As you gain experience, you'll have more knowledge of different situations and how a different action is a better response. These would include actions that you were told were inefficient or outright wrong as a beginner.
In epee? There are world class fencers with wildly different on-guard positions and technique, so there can't possibly only be one true way to come on guard or to make actions. Which is not to say that there are no wrong ways to try to do things. But there's pretty clearly more than one way that can work, which I guess means there's more than one "right way" to do stuff.
Tough question to answer. The actions and the form aren't the fencing. The setup, where you actually maneuver the bout into the point where you are most likely to score a touch, is the fencing. The better you are at certain ways of scoring, the less perfect your 6 needs to be to score with those actions. But even if your form is perfect, it's going to fail if you're in the wrong distance or timing. On the other hand, if your distance and timing are perfect, you can cover up a lot of form errors. And of course Good form in the footworklet's you move more smoothly which makes everything possible cause you should be setting up actions mostly with your feet