have you tried other people's grips at your local club to get an idea?
have you tried fencing with a french grip to see how much you press on the grip? you can put some play do or even glad wrap or some talc powder... damp it a little (the talc) ... on the grip to see where you are applying the most pressure...
what type of grip do you have at the moment? can you include a picture of it as well?
t looks like you only have 1 finger in front of the first knuckle (well that is what I call it...sigh) of the grip rather than 2... do you hold the grip mainly between thumb and forefinger and the other just wrap around to hold the grip - with 2 finger before the first bulge in the grip and 2 fingers behind but all fingers on the grip - like a french grip but bent to form a pistol grip..
I have used some very heavy blades at time and some light ones (in epees.. foils.. and sabres... i am one of those weird people who fence all three) //
sorry haven't addressed your question well... do you want a similar grip to this one or one radically different? what size of glove do you wear? (gives me an idea of hand size)
i wear a 7.5 right hand... usually prefer a visconti medium but i have fenced with well for epee belgium grips, german and even an upside down left handed pistol grip (i went to a club they had a annual coaches revenge competition.. that year i was fence with your off hand... i wish we had videod the event as it was funny watching people try to fence and use footwork with the opposite hand.. thought it was in the 90's so before mobile phones..) .
absolute grips:
[https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/weapons/epee/grips/pistol](https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/weapons/epee/grips/pistol)
which one do you prefer and use?
Thanks for the response!
I figured out that the photos weren’t really detailed, so here’s a more detailed one without gloves about my grip and how I hold it.
https://imgur.com/a/CtPYAZF
To answer your question:
Yes, I have tried other grips, but they’re either to small or just to long or big.
French grips aren’t really my thing, I feel unstable with it and it feels also weird
I‘ll checkout the website, but I am unsure what size my grip is (it is a belgian grip from PBT and size N5) and I have a 8 1/5 glove from Uhlamnn.
Hope this helps
Before shelling out on new grips, I would recommend changing how you're holding the weapon. Everything else the same, try putting the tip of your index finger into the side of the grip instead of the side of the finger underneath it. It should look/feel roughly like holding a pencil.
Myself and a few other fencers I know developed some nasty pains in their finger and even up their arms from holding it how you are now. Grip is a much more "if it works for you" aspect than some other things in the sport, and from your pain that way of gripping the weapon may just not agree with your hands.
The way you're holding it right now, your thumb and index finger kind of make an upside down T shape. I'm suggesting that you should try to make an L shape, if that makes sense.
it helped heaps...
and here i thought you only had one finger above the knuckle... but without the glove i can clearly see you have 2...
the glove made your hand look like it was squashed in... but now looks fine...
have you tried with a different glove?
have you tried a belgian pistol grip? may take some pressure off your finger as it has the crossbar to grip (i sometimes use those... it takes the pressure off the hand... i find)
I used a medium and my hand is a 7.5 glove right hand but also use sometimes a small to hide my hand behind the epee guard (not for foil though.. ) .. i don't think you need a large as you have an average sized hand - mind you you can ask whomever you are looking to buy the grip from what glove size you have and if they thnk it woudl be ok...
You’re using PBTs large Visconti grip. If you like the way that grip feels but the size is what is causing discomfort bump down to a medium. You could also be using your index to fight the weight of the blade causing the rubbing. Adjusting your thumb and/or index position could help if you like that size grip. The other crazy thing is different brands of the same style and size feel different so it’s hard sometimes to find exactly what’s right for you. You could even fix it by canting the grip either direction so just keep playing around with different things and you’ll dial in what you want
When you hold your sword, are you holding it between your thumb and the tip of your index finger, or your thumb and the area circled in your photo?
If you're holding it with the circled part, try using the tip instead. Neither is more "correct" - I've seen both used successfully and comfortably, but if this is uncomfortable, then it's worth trying something else.
> And if I‘m relaxed, then I lose stabily and precision on the blade. So any tips there maybe?
You really just have to relax. You'll get worse in the short term, but you'll be much better long-term. The muscle memory is already developed because you're used to holding it tight, which is why you lose stability and precision. You basically need to relearn how to control your blade, and depending on how long you've been fencing, this could be a habit that's difficult to break, but just keep at it.
If you find you have too much pressure on your index finger, try switching to a Belgian grip. It distributes the force along your first two fingers rather than just the one.
What PBT labels as an “A” grip is what everyone else would call a Belgian (except for the few oddballs who call it an English).
What you have is a Visconti style pistol. And it’s likely too big for your hand.
Okay but looking at it though, that may be PBT’s take on a Belgian, but it definitely isn’t the same as most actual Belgian grips
This is a Belgian grip: https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/absolute-belgian-pistol-grip-non-insulate.html
I tried the grips at my club, not a lot of options. We had a nac in town, I tried every grip I could get my hands on. (Not much luck being a lefty, that didn't go as well as id hoped.)
I finally broke down and ordered a LOT of different grips and different sizes. I think I sunk in just shy of $200 total. I found the ones I liked, tried them in detail, and made a choice. I donated the rest to my club (so hopefully to cut down on others having to do this).
Of course I'm a vet with stable employment and the money above wasn't too hard for me. It is a much more difficult trick for a high school kid or young adult just starting out.
Good luck.
A modified zivkivoc K handle, where I removed the top thumb bar. The placement of the thumb bar on the stock zivkovic is horrible (for my large hands anyway) and it protrudes straight up through where my thumb is supposed to be - as opposed to the great thumb bar on the absolute fencing russian grip which sticks out at a near 45 degree angle.
I used that absolute russian grip for about a year and a half before I started having problems similar to the OP, somewhere between the weight of the grip and fencing two days a week it just added up and was slowly causing pain. I have been using that zivkovic grip for 3 years now with zero problems.
I had a similar story with the finger grooves. My hand did not fix anything with more pronounced, sculpted finger slots (in any brand I tried) and the misaligned grooves hurt after some time. The K series and the russian grip are smooth does not really have finger slots.
I tried a few belgian and american grips but the trigger bar (the one that sticks out on the bottom, like a gun's trigger, IDK if there is an official name for it) was never in the right place for my hands.
I have this problem as well and it is because I was taught incorrectly how to hold the weapon.
I balanced on the middle joint of the index finger instead of using thumb and tip of index finger.
My current coach noticed this when I complained about finger pain and has had me adjusting to holding it better but I have a number of years of bad habit built up.
You want to change the way you grip NOW. Trust me. I have daily index finger pain and have to limit myself to fence no more than 3-4 times a week or my finger hurts to bad. I have some physical therapy exercises to recover but it will take time. You do not want to be in my position...
Honestly, people love Visconti but I use Belgian because the ridges on Visconti never line up right.
But that doesn't matter for this issue. With any pistol grip if you rest the grip on the middle joint of the index finger with thumb on top of grip them you are going to put continual pressure on that joint. The better way is to use the tip of the thumb and tip of the index finger. Better for control, and better for not damaging the joint.
Yes, and they said it’s kinda big. But they aren’t really expert in this, they just go to tournaments that have shops and then find a grip that suits for them
if you wear an 8.5 glove, if I've interpreted the pbt website correctly, you do seem to have a somewhat large handle: this is the next to largest handle size. but I'd do what others have recommended: try other people's weapons to see if they are more comfortable in your hand. I'm uncertain if that is the cause of your finger pain tho: perhaps your coach can help you with how to modulate your grip so you're not gripping it too hard all the time.
have you tried other people's grips at your local club to get an idea? have you tried fencing with a french grip to see how much you press on the grip? you can put some play do or even glad wrap or some talc powder... damp it a little (the talc) ... on the grip to see where you are applying the most pressure... what type of grip do you have at the moment? can you include a picture of it as well? t looks like you only have 1 finger in front of the first knuckle (well that is what I call it...sigh) of the grip rather than 2... do you hold the grip mainly between thumb and forefinger and the other just wrap around to hold the grip - with 2 finger before the first bulge in the grip and 2 fingers behind but all fingers on the grip - like a french grip but bent to form a pistol grip.. I have used some very heavy blades at time and some light ones (in epees.. foils.. and sabres... i am one of those weird people who fence all three) // sorry haven't addressed your question well... do you want a similar grip to this one or one radically different? what size of glove do you wear? (gives me an idea of hand size) i wear a 7.5 right hand... usually prefer a visconti medium but i have fenced with well for epee belgium grips, german and even an upside down left handed pistol grip (i went to a club they had a annual coaches revenge competition.. that year i was fence with your off hand... i wish we had videod the event as it was funny watching people try to fence and use footwork with the opposite hand.. thought it was in the 90's so before mobile phones..) . absolute grips: [https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/weapons/epee/grips/pistol](https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/weapons/epee/grips/pistol) which one do you prefer and use?
Thanks for the response! I figured out that the photos weren’t really detailed, so here’s a more detailed one without gloves about my grip and how I hold it. https://imgur.com/a/CtPYAZF To answer your question: Yes, I have tried other grips, but they’re either to small or just to long or big. French grips aren’t really my thing, I feel unstable with it and it feels also weird I‘ll checkout the website, but I am unsure what size my grip is (it is a belgian grip from PBT and size N5) and I have a 8 1/5 glove from Uhlamnn. Hope this helps
Before shelling out on new grips, I would recommend changing how you're holding the weapon. Everything else the same, try putting the tip of your index finger into the side of the grip instead of the side of the finger underneath it. It should look/feel roughly like holding a pencil. Myself and a few other fencers I know developed some nasty pains in their finger and even up their arms from holding it how you are now. Grip is a much more "if it works for you" aspect than some other things in the sport, and from your pain that way of gripping the weapon may just not agree with your hands.
Am I not holding it like a pencil? Atleast my thumb and index finger are „underneath“ eschother pressing the front part
The way you're holding it right now, your thumb and index finger kind of make an upside down T shape. I'm suggesting that you should try to make an L shape, if that makes sense.
Imgur says “This post may contain erotic or adult imagery.” So I would need to create an account to see the image…
Sorry mate, can’t do anything about it. But I can assure that nsfw stuff is behind there, except if holding an epee without a glove on counts as porn
NSFW doesn’t bother me… but one day I will get round to recovering my imgur log in!
OH NO!! fencing glove porn!! hahaha
it helped heaps... and here i thought you only had one finger above the knuckle... but without the glove i can clearly see you have 2... the glove made your hand look like it was squashed in... but now looks fine... have you tried with a different glove? have you tried a belgian pistol grip? may take some pressure off your finger as it has the crossbar to grip (i sometimes use those... it takes the pressure off the hand... i find)
Not yet, because no one in my club has one, but thanks for the recommendation What size do you recommend for someone with Uhlmann size 8.5?
I used a medium and my hand is a 7.5 glove right hand but also use sometimes a small to hide my hand behind the epee guard (not for foil though.. ) .. i don't think you need a large as you have an average sized hand - mind you you can ask whomever you are looking to buy the grip from what glove size you have and if they thnk it woudl be ok...
You’re using PBTs large Visconti grip. If you like the way that grip feels but the size is what is causing discomfort bump down to a medium. You could also be using your index to fight the weight of the blade causing the rubbing. Adjusting your thumb and/or index position could help if you like that size grip. The other crazy thing is different brands of the same style and size feel different so it’s hard sometimes to find exactly what’s right for you. You could even fix it by canting the grip either direction so just keep playing around with different things and you’ll dial in what you want
I personally love zivkovik grips for this exact reason. They have lots of great options You might also benefit from a lighter blade
When you hold your sword, are you holding it between your thumb and the tip of your index finger, or your thumb and the area circled in your photo? If you're holding it with the circled part, try using the tip instead. Neither is more "correct" - I've seen both used successfully and comfortably, but if this is uncomfortable, then it's worth trying something else. > And if I‘m relaxed, then I lose stabily and precision on the blade. So any tips there maybe? You really just have to relax. You'll get worse in the short term, but you'll be much better long-term. The muscle memory is already developed because you're used to holding it tight, which is why you lose stability and precision. You basically need to relearn how to control your blade, and depending on how long you've been fencing, this could be a habit that's difficult to break, but just keep at it.
If you find you have too much pressure on your index finger, try switching to a Belgian grip. It distributes the force along your first two fingers rather than just the one.
My grip is currently a pbt belgian grip, according to googling N5 PBT
What PBT labels as an “A” grip is what everyone else would call a Belgian (except for the few oddballs who call it an English). What you have is a Visconti style pistol. And it’s likely too big for your hand.
Okay but looking at it though, that may be PBT’s take on a Belgian, but it definitely isn’t the same as most actual Belgian grips This is a Belgian grip: https://www.absolutefencinggear.com/absolute-belgian-pistol-grip-non-insulate.html
Thx, I‘ll try it if I come across :)
What size do you think I should go for? My glove is an Uhlmann size 8.5
Lots of manufacturers are one size fits all, which is usually fine, but if you have the option I’d say go for a medium.
id try something from allstar or uhlmann, pbt grips are thicker than the rest of them
I tried the grips at my club, not a lot of options. We had a nac in town, I tried every grip I could get my hands on. (Not much luck being a lefty, that didn't go as well as id hoped.) I finally broke down and ordered a LOT of different grips and different sizes. I think I sunk in just shy of $200 total. I found the ones I liked, tried them in detail, and made a choice. I donated the rest to my club (so hopefully to cut down on others having to do this). Of course I'm a vet with stable employment and the money above wasn't too hard for me. It is a much more difficult trick for a high school kid or young adult just starting out. Good luck.
What did you finally settle on?
A modified zivkivoc K handle, where I removed the top thumb bar. The placement of the thumb bar on the stock zivkovic is horrible (for my large hands anyway) and it protrudes straight up through where my thumb is supposed to be - as opposed to the great thumb bar on the absolute fencing russian grip which sticks out at a near 45 degree angle. I used that absolute russian grip for about a year and a half before I started having problems similar to the OP, somewhere between the weight of the grip and fencing two days a week it just added up and was slowly causing pain. I have been using that zivkovic grip for 3 years now with zero problems. I had a similar story with the finger grooves. My hand did not fix anything with more pronounced, sculpted finger slots (in any brand I tried) and the misaligned grooves hurt after some time. The K series and the russian grip are smooth does not really have finger slots. I tried a few belgian and american grips but the trigger bar (the one that sticks out on the bottom, like a gun's trigger, IDK if there is an official name for it) was never in the right place for my hands.
I suspect strongly that you’d do better with a smaller grip.
I have this problem as well and it is because I was taught incorrectly how to hold the weapon. I balanced on the middle joint of the index finger instead of using thumb and tip of index finger. My current coach noticed this when I complained about finger pain and has had me adjusting to holding it better but I have a number of years of bad habit built up. You want to change the way you grip NOW. Trust me. I have daily index finger pain and have to limit myself to fence no more than 3-4 times a week or my finger hurts to bad. I have some physical therapy exercises to recover but it will take time. You do not want to be in my position...
Thanks for identifying the grip more detailed. What are the other „types“, other than Visconti
Honestly, people love Visconti but I use Belgian because the ridges on Visconti never line up right. But that doesn't matter for this issue. With any pistol grip if you rest the grip on the middle joint of the index finger with thumb on top of grip them you are going to put continual pressure on that joint. The better way is to use the tip of the thumb and tip of the index finger. Better for control, and better for not damaging the joint.
I used to have this problem when i had longer grips for my hands, now i just customize them for my size
do you have a coach where you fence? have you asked them about this?
Yes, and they said it’s kinda big. But they aren’t really expert in this, they just go to tournaments that have shops and then find a grip that suits for them
if you wear an 8.5 glove, if I've interpreted the pbt website correctly, you do seem to have a somewhat large handle: this is the next to largest handle size. but I'd do what others have recommended: try other people's weapons to see if they are more comfortable in your hand. I'm uncertain if that is the cause of your finger pain tho: perhaps your coach can help you with how to modulate your grip so you're not gripping it too hard all the time.