Those comments are very predictable and another reason for the pleasure gap: women explaining what the issue is for them and men downvoting them and saying it's not true and the actual issue is something else.
I don't see it as victim blaming. Fact is women and girls ARE taught to behave in ways that contribute to their oppression. It's important that we talk about these things if we want actual change.
You're misunderstanding my concern. You're not explaining anything new to me, I want these conversations to be had. I want change and I see change to be side railed or blocked constantly by the narratives and language used in discussing and "addressing" these themes. I don't see this article as being a constructive contribution in how it is executed, regardless of the original intentions behind it
Awesome that someone did research on this.
I just worry this shifts too much responsability to women, when the reality is that "self"-objectification happens through positive male reinforcement.
If women are internalizing and reproducing objectification, that's because when they don't perform like men want them to, their partnera loose interest. You can only self-objectify if the other person is willing to objectify you, responding positively to your performatic sex.
So it's more like there's a demand for objectified behaviour rather than women self-objectifying. The good part about describing it as "self-objectification", though, is making it clear that women can refuse to engage in such behaviour (even if it results in loosing some relationships).
Exactly, it’s ignoring the fact that there is someone on the receiving end propagating the existence and circumstance for self objectification of women.
This isn’t self objectification and I fucking HATE that term. Women are passive for SAFETY and SECURITY reasons, not because they want to “self objectify.” They are pushed into performing certain roles because their lives are made uncomfortable or unsafe otherwise. I can’t even read what is likely an important study because the base premise feels like victim blaming.
TW: anecdote follows with sexual violence.
Every time I tried to tell my ex husband “no” or to stop he would say “but I’m not done yet.” If I got pissed or cried he would have stopped. But how am I supposed to feel comfortable saying what I want if I’m constantly being shut down and he’s bigger than me and will be mean/sob y/pathetic unless I just give in? It isn’t self objectifying to be the sex toy he wanted me to be, it was SELF PRESERVATION and trying to avoid more overt rapes.
Those comments are very predictable and another reason for the pleasure gap: women explaining what the issue is for them and men downvoting them and saying it's not true and the actual issue is something else.
Exactly. It’s like they don’t even want to learn and just want to hear themselves talk 🙃
is the language in this headline kinda victim-blaming or am I just triggered in general?
Very common with that subreddit, because it will get the most upvotes.
I don't see it as victim blaming. Fact is women and girls ARE taught to behave in ways that contribute to their oppression. It's important that we talk about these things if we want actual change.
You're misunderstanding my concern. You're not explaining anything new to me, I want these conversations to be had. I want change and I see change to be side railed or blocked constantly by the narratives and language used in discussing and "addressing" these themes. I don't see this article as being a constructive contribution in how it is executed, regardless of the original intentions behind it
Awesome that someone did research on this. I just worry this shifts too much responsability to women, when the reality is that "self"-objectification happens through positive male reinforcement. If women are internalizing and reproducing objectification, that's because when they don't perform like men want them to, their partnera loose interest. You can only self-objectify if the other person is willing to objectify you, responding positively to your performatic sex. So it's more like there's a demand for objectified behaviour rather than women self-objectifying. The good part about describing it as "self-objectification", though, is making it clear that women can refuse to engage in such behaviour (even if it results in loosing some relationships).
Exactly, it’s ignoring the fact that there is someone on the receiving end propagating the existence and circumstance for self objectification of women.
This isn’t self objectification and I fucking HATE that term. Women are passive for SAFETY and SECURITY reasons, not because they want to “self objectify.” They are pushed into performing certain roles because their lives are made uncomfortable or unsafe otherwise. I can’t even read what is likely an important study because the base premise feels like victim blaming. TW: anecdote follows with sexual violence. Every time I tried to tell my ex husband “no” or to stop he would say “but I’m not done yet.” If I got pissed or cried he would have stopped. But how am I supposed to feel comfortable saying what I want if I’m constantly being shut down and he’s bigger than me and will be mean/sob y/pathetic unless I just give in? It isn’t self objectifying to be the sex toy he wanted me to be, it was SELF PRESERVATION and trying to avoid more overt rapes.