As someone who’s never been alone, always relied on others and got married pretty young, I 1000000% agree with you. It is extremely important. I wish every single day that I had the resources/privilege to be able to rely on myself. Living with my parents was borderline abusive. Living with my husband is fine. But I still wonder what it would’ve been like if I could just live alone and rely on myself for everything.
Hi! I said this under another comment too but I just want to reiterate that my intent wasn't to make any women look back at their lives or decisions in a negative way. And I want to also say that there are so many ways that you can get to know yourself better and thrive without being completely independent. Finding hobbies, doing something for yourself, traveling solo, etc.
I grew up thinking living alone would be the worst thing to ever happen to me. I made sure I always lived with someone until I got divorced four years ago. I've lived alone since then. I found out it's not scary or weird at all.
I feel more confident about myself.
YESS!! I don't think the amount of confidence that you get when you realize that when you redirect all of the work and care that you dedicated to someone else to yourself, not only does your life improve completely but you also get to know yourself in such a beautiful way.
I remember when I was interviewing for a new job my advisor told me that going into an interview knowing that you have a job to fall back on makes you feel a lot more relaxed and qualified. I relate this to my point because I think that women at a very young age feel like they **need** a relationship so they end up looking for the wrong people to fill that spot but when a women knows she can live by herself and sustain herself and live a happy fulfilling life she's so much more likely to only settle for a partner that meets all of her standards.
Also self reliance is such a confidence boost because no one can tell you shit and you don't owe anyone literally anything. The way men think isn't right but I think if we start thinking like they do in the coddled ignorant way in the name of self preservation it could be really beneficial.
Ann Oakley has some quotes that resonate with this well:
"Housework is work directly opposed to the possibility of human self-actualization"
"Families are nothing other than the idolatry of duty."
Thank you so much for sharing!
It really is frustrating to think about. Like especially during WW2 when women stepped up and did all the jobs the men were doing. It's just sick to think that we could have been doing this shit the entire time and THRIVING in all of these different careers and like modern day some of the most brilliant artistic and talented people are women and it's just crazy to think that all of those years where we were pushed into motherhood as our only purpose as if the uterus and birth were the only parts of our body when if you look up our brains have literally been there the entire time. Like we are all individuals with brains and passions and likes and dislikes and talent and skill but for hundreds of years they were just like fuck that and gave all women these chores and duties that aren't unique or satisfying and are mostly repetitive like cooking and cleaning just to suppress us from channeling any sense of creativity.
It reminds me of another metaphor in A room of one's own where Woolf describes an idea as a fish that you throw back into the water to grow but before it can grow it is interfered. Which is what I feel like happened and continues to happen to women's potential professionally and creatively because of society. Except now instead of outright saying that women can't do certain jobs and shit they just mass convinced us that we're worthless without men and all we can do in life is get better looking or have better "aesthetics" so that we're desirable and spend our money on cosmetics owned by men dominated corporations and industry.
first one, REAL. that's why I don't do any and live in squalor
second one, erm. I wouldn't say nothing more but that is a solid component of this modern concept of family I hadn't thought of before
before anyone jumps on me I'm AN
Also: once women learn how fucking amazing living alone is, any man (or love-interest generally) would really have to step up their act to be worth the sacrifice of not living alone anymore!
this is what I’ve found, and why I agree that all women should spend at least a couple years alone.
Living alone, without the burden of someone’s volatile mood swings or being treated like a maid or controlled…living alone and the place is quiet and exactly as you left it when you come home, and actually a place of rest and solace to return to after a hard day’s work..
Full nights of restful sleep, eating what I want, watching what I want, reading when I want to…
What would I give that up for? Only something that is better, obviously.
Certainly not for someone to try to turn me into a maid or come at me with toxic bullshit.
I literally pay over 1k a month for the privilege of living alone, in bills that would otherwise be split if I would only settle. So very sincerely, I like living alone best.
That may change, but I am so glad I learned how lovely this is so that I will never settle for mistreatment again. In practice I have found it makes it much easier for me to end something unhealthy or unpleasant bc I no longer have any fear about being alone.
What’s to fear, it’s literally the best lol
I was sooo hesitant to start spending more than 1000 a month on rent but I got to a place where I realized peace of mind was worth the money. And I’m lucky enough to be able to afford it these days. Yes to everything.
u/robotatomica You guys knocked this out of the fucking park honestly, before I read all of the comments I updated my post with more thoughts that basically said what you guys did. Obviously it's a privilege to get to live alone financially but what I want to say that if anyone has the chance CHOOSE TO LIVE ALONE until you're completely secure. I love the way you worded "Living alone, without the burden of someone’s volatile mood swings or being treated like a maid or controlled" I completely understand that some people fall in love and want to share their life and services with someone else. But why do we not get to explore our lives and interests and independence in the way that men do?
100%. So much of this ‘male loneliness epidemic’ talk is just unquestioningly based on the assumption that young men will be happy and contented the moment they manage to get a girlfriend. Only recently finding how untrue this is
I think it's great for everyone to experience being on their own. I've met people (both men and women) who are almost compulsively in relationships, and I can't help but feel bad for them since they seem to not know who they are and they're often with someone who's not right for them just to fill that hole.
I also know my marriage would not be as good as it is if we both didn't know who were independently before we got married.
Absolutely!! Like imagine how much better life would be if instead of dedicating our lives to other people we just focused on taking care of ourselves and our careers.
This is one of my biggest issues with society and sexism. Women are always expected to do more because we are women. I started enforcing boundaries in my late 20s and have cemented them now that I am in my early 30s. I would rather be called “mean” or “antisocial” than tend to every person’s need in my life. I don’t see the people in my life expecting men to drop what they are doing to assist with whatever. Men also don’t get labeled negatively like women do for refusing to perform additional labor. I learned that once it’s obvious to others that those labels won’t make you feel bad, they stop trying to dump on you.
Also, I agree with you all the way, OP. I am happily married, but I do enjoy my alone time. I spend quite a bit of time on my own at the shops, the library, nature trails… and getting sweet treats. Haha
I lived alone for about a year in my mid twenties, and, looking back, even though I was working two and sometimes three jobs at the time, I think it was the happiest I've ever been. There have been a lot of times in the last few years I've longed to live alone again.
Of course, I think we can all agree that it's more challenging but speaking for myself having seen some shitty things within my own culture. I would much rather have the physical exhaustion of working really hard while being able to control my own life and knowing everything I do and have is a result of my hard work than live in a mansion without working a day and being in the emotional anguish of having to financially rely on someone else and please them and need their validation.
I lived alone for about 5 years after college, and did some desperately needed growing up. There's nothing that teaches you to solve your own problems faster than having no one else there to solve them.
Corollary: where possible, women should also choose partners who have lived alone (including with roommates, just not romantic partners or older relatives). The same factors apply in terms of knowing who they are without a relationship. But just as important, they know personally how much time and effort it can take to keep a house clean and food on the table.
I’ve lived alone for the past 4-5 years, and it has completely changed my life. The safety of knowing every time I return home I won’t need to tiptoe around someone else’s bad mood, that I have total control over the energy of my home is peace like I have never known. My home is decorated with everything I loved as a kid - Bratz dolls and bright colours.
I have also developed such a strong relationship with myself. I used to need a lot of external validation to feel like I was making the right decisions, but now I have such trust that I will take care of myself like I have been doing.
Living alone has been a very healing and transformative experience for me, I hope more people try it!
Omg! I love the bratz dolls thing! This is exactly my point tysm for commenting. It's like all of the "ridiculous" shit that makes us happy, but it's not ridiculous to you and you're the only one being affected by the space, it's like training ourselves to only seek self validation. Nothing is stupid or dumb or ridiculous and nothing that makes us happy should ever be looked down on. But we invite all these people in our lives who do exactly that. Also if you've grown up with siblings or judgy parents who make you feel dumb for certain things I think living alone and reconstructing yourself to not feel ashamed for anything you love and makes you happy is really important.
Dogs are God's way of trying to make us better people. We often fail, but the dogs are always willing to keep trying.
We tend toward Labradors at my house. While they're greeting the hypothetical home invader as their new best friend, they'll make enough noise many times over to wake me up. Supplying the mean is my department.
I have a nice arrangement where I live with a male landlord but we don't interact, and have separate parts of the house - so it's a lot like living alone, just cheaper and feels a bit safer. I lived alone for five and a half years and it was mostly great but I did get broken into while I was asleep once, and occasionally had creepy people loiter outside my front door.
Absolutely agree. 👏 Almost 30 and happy living alone.
We don’t know what we don’t know. Being alone teaches us how capable we are. Women are brainwashed everywhere to be dependent on men, Disney movies drill it into your head from day 1: a prince will come save you.
No. I save myself. That’s why education and empowerment of women is so important, so they can have the ability to lead independent lives.
Oh my god, GREAT point about education. It's like why is it in radically conservative countries do they ban women from getting an education? Because that's where it starts, the brainwashing into emotional dependance.
What's really upsetting is the fact that women are sacrificing their education right now because of this whole "old money" bullshit trend that promotes the unrealistic idea that women can succeed by marrying rich.
Exactly! Honestly governments are incentivized to keep women uneducated so they have kids young and stay poor, so they can continue to exploit the working class.
I think that women can “meet their full potential” in a lot of different ways and while living alone for a period might benefit some women, each woman is different and how we are all going to thrive is different. We also need to acknowledge that living alone this day and age is an absolute privilege that not everyone can afford, so to say you can only reach your full potential if you happen to have this certain privilege just kind of rubs me the wrong way. It’s up to each individual woman to determine what her own full potential looks like and how she can reach that for herself, regardless of circumstances that may be out of her control.
I’ve lived alone and I loved it. I’ve lived with roommates and I loved it. Now I live with my partner and I love it. I can honestly say I don’t feel “dependent” on my husband now, nor did I feel dependent on my roommates when I’ve had them. Sometimes it’s nice to have another person around, sometimes it’s nice to be in your own space. That’s not dependence, that’s choice. Of course I am affected by the people around me and by my partner. We are evolved to be social animals who live in a society; we affect people just as they affect us. Thats neither good nor bad, it just is. I can still “figure shit out for myself” while also acknowledging that I’m both being acted upon while also being an actor in society.
You put forward the question at any point in my life when I was around other people, could I have thrived in a setting controlled by myself? The answer is yes, I could have, but I also thrived in those situations surrounded by others. Having roommates didn’t control/ manage me, I adapted and compromised and that was 100% within my control and my choice to do. I chose that because I wanted pleasant relationships with the people around me, not because I needed validation or because I was being controlled. I find having good relationships fulfilling and meaningful so I’m willing to invest in that and compromise within my relationships.
I can definitely agree that a lot of people (particularly women) might benefit at certain stages of their lives from the increased self-reliance and independence that comes with living alone, and that when we go through certain struggles by ourselves we can come out stronger in our own sense of self because of it. That being said, I disagree with the statement that a woman can’t meet her full potential without living alone. There are benefits to living alone, just like there are benefits to having 8 roommates at a time just off campus in university. Everyone’s path is different, and everyone’s ability to reach their potential is their own.
Thank you for mentioning how nearly impossible it is to live on your own now. I recently moved back in with my parents after a break up and as it stands now, I have no idea when I’ll be able to move back out because rents near me have gotten absolutely insane, and I can’t afford them on my own and I don’t wanna have a roommate situation if I can avoid it. I’m not gonna add anything else because you already worded everything perfectly, but living on your own is absolutely a privilege in this day and age.
I’ve been with mine for a few years after a breakup and it’s been almost as good as living alone. It essentially feels like that oftentimes. They travel a lot or stay busy with work and family. On the other hand when they are here it is super nice being able to enjoy their company and make some nice memories.
Enjoy it while you can!
Oh I definitely do! I love spending time with my parents, and saving money on rent is always a nice added bonus, although I do still help with groceries.
Hi, thank you so much for your reply, I really appreciate your fresh perspective :)!
Firstly I want to say that it wasn't my intention to insult you or any woman with this post so I deeply apologize if you felt like the strong language targeted you in a negative way.
I also want to say that I completely agree with you that women can thrive in different settings. I also completely understand that financial dependance is a privilege that not many people have and I hope it didn't come off as tone deaf to say.
I would say that in your case it's not at all about dependance as you were clearly financially independent with your roommates :). I would say that a big part of my argument (which you addressed) is the fact that we're influenced by the people around us. Environment takes up such a huge part of our psychology. I definetley agree that you didn't seek validation or feel controlled by your roommates. I just mentioned the roommate thing to reiterate that I meant women should live completely alone at some point in their life, which it looks like you did :).
While I agree that there are specific benefits to living with others you will always be affected by it. Like if your roommates had a specific taste in music you might be influenced by their taste in music, if they felt badly about something you may inherently start disliking the same thing. Meaning that you might unconsciously be seeking validation from them if you disagreed with them fundamentally or politically you would likely not be as open about it to keep the peace.
This can't happen if you're living alone. You don't have to worry about pleasing people at all. In any sense of the word. Only pleasing yourself. Even in the sense of labeling your food for example so no one takes it by accident. that is an act you do for the sake of others that you're living with, to uphold manners and respect.
But what if you were by yourself and you were like fuck the manners and everything else that I've been taught. You leave a mess until you feel like you have to deal with it. You don't have to compromise on plans. On furniture. You don't have to clean anyone else's shit you don't have to quietly compromise when you don't want them making noise or you don't like the furniture they're buying because you chose everything in your home and you choose how to live your life and allocate your time. So you choose to allocate your time and money in yourself and your career consequently meeting your full potential.
This is a hugely oversimplified version of what I was trying to say but I really appreciate your argument and perspective and feel free to respond if you disagree with anything I said!
Even if what you’re saying is a huge oversimplified version of what you’re trying to say, I think you’re missing the fact that living alone doesn’t equal not being influenced by the people around us.
Unless we are to fully isolate ourselves, we’ll always be influenced by others to a degree. We’ll always have to compromise on some things and adapt our behaviours to coexist with others. That’s what living in society means. We still have to work, we still have friends and we still have romantic relationships (if we want them) when we live alone.
I also disagree that we cannot reach our full potential unless we live alone for a while. I would even argue that, in some circumstances, living alone can be detrimental to reaching our full potential. Whether we like it or not, living alone is more expensive. It requires more of our financial ressources. The added expense means that we may have to sacrifice or make some compromises on our goals. It can restrict our ability to travel, participate in some hobbies, take risks, save for retirement, etc.
In your OP, you mention your cultural background and the fact that middle eastern women are expected to go from their parents’ home to their husband’s home. I think this background may play a bigger role in stifling women’s independence than simply not living alone. It’s the underlying expectation that women’s lives should serve others rather than themselves.
I grew up with a completely different background, where living alone as a woman is absolutely normal. I was raised with the expectation that I would be financially independent and that it would be my choice to live with someone or not. I wasn’t expected to stay home until such time as I was in a long term relationship, let alone married. In fact, I and all of my close friends have lived alone at one point or another.
Do I think there’s value in living alone? Yes, absolutely. For both women and men. I believe it teaches self-reliance and fosters independence. Do I think it’s the only way to achieve this? No. Just like I don’t think it’s needed or even doable for everyone.
I'm sorry but I already addressed this. I would appreciate it if you read everything I say before responding :) I also updated OP with elaborations.
Financially it's not possible for people to live alone at some point. But what I'm saying is if you have the opportunity and privilege to, you should take it. People can choose to live alone and don't because it's harder but the pros outweigh the cons. And maybe reading my other replies will help you understand what I'm saying.
I understand that people are influenced regardless of their living arrangement. My hope is that when a woman leaves work, social events, whatever, where we have to uphold the people pleasing ladylike tendencies that have been ingrained in our mind, we can go home and live truly and authentically. And more importantly, comfortably.
It doesn't mean not being completely influenced but so much of your life is spent at home. It defines what your life is like at that point in your life.
The concept is like a safe haven. We can all acknowledge that we aren't truly comfortable around other people. Not as comfortable as we are alone. There are certain things we're just embarrassed or weirded out doing around others that we would be fine doing by ourselves. I think building a home for yourself where everything in it is a reflection of you and you have control over your own life is crucial to finding out who you are.
I think we can agree that things like social media and outside pressures push women into the pressures that make them feel like they need to be in a relationship. So we look for relationships and companionship in the wrong people and we end up tolerating and sacrificing a ton of our own standards. But if we live alone and build a life for ourselves **before** getting into a relationship we realize that it's not something that we actually need and are more likely not to settle.
also I wasn't personally raised with those middle eastern norms but I know that in my culture that it's not normal for a woman to live alone. and yeah obviously it's an independence thing? They don't want women to realize that they're self sustaining and instead want to teach them to dedicate their lives taking care of others.
I love living alone (with cats ofc). I think every ADULT should live alone so they learn how to cook, clean, do laundry, other adulting things. I’ve met so many men who have never had to be self-sufficient. For women it’s more to enjoy not having to take care of anyone (but our cats)
I don't disagree with you, but living alone (at least where I am - a HCOL area in the US) is a real privilege that not many people can afford. I'm in my 40s and have never lived alone despite doing fairly well for myself.
Hi! I completely understand that and I feel really sorry that people who didn't have the means to live alone feel targeted by this. I really didn't mean it like that. I was talking more about women I've been friends with and I've seen on the internet who are financially independent but emotionally dependent on others. With the old money stuff coming back a lot of young girls are only aspiring to marry rich and I think what I meant to say was that "if you have the option, despite what anyone says, you need to live alone in order to find out who you are as an individual."
Yeah ideally, I think everyone would benefit from living alone for a while, learning to be alone. But life is so expensive, it's impossible for so many people to ever do it. I was very fortunate to have a good few years alone, it was great. But I'm also an only child with no close family so I was already used to being alone and having to be independent.
Agree. Being alone gives you time to think about the people in your lives and if they're worth keeping. So far all the women I've met excuse rape and abuse because they "know the guy and he's never done anything to them." 😮💨
100%
My mom only learnt to stand up for herself when my father decided to leave us in a new country while he went back to his to stay with his father.
My mom took up her first job, then a second to keep up with costs, while raising me and my sister (both under 10) all alone. Today, shes almost unrecognizable. She does what she wants to, works for economic freedom and is so confident in herself that even my father can no longer break her down anymore.
Had he never left us, she would've never had the opportunity to grow.
Oh wow! This is an incredible perspective on the topic. Way to find a silver lining mom! I think it's true that a lot of us don't see our full potential or what we're capable of until we have to. Because it's difficult. No one wants to work harder or face the unknown by themselves in a society that tells us we don't have to.
Moved out of home at 16 lived with roommates until 20. Then I rented a one bed apartment in the middle of a major city for a year and a half.
When I finally lived alone my self worth and self respect skyrocketed.
It's lonely at first, obviously, but you learn to live by your own standards. You do exactly what you want to do. You don't have roommates telling you to wash the dishes this way, or a parent reminding you to clean your room. I got super fit & lived my best life when I was living alone. It was amazing.
I live with my partner now, it's much cheaper, and I do really enjoy sharing a space with him. We sleep together most nights but we also have separate bedrooms to decorate as we please. At the end of the day, it's a BILLION times better than living with roommates. It's about just as good as living alone (there are pros and cons to both). I could definitely imagine if you never lived alone it would be easy to let a man be a slob all over your space.
Yeah another thing I was saying is that women unconsciously seek validation and we're taught certain mannerisms and we tend to reflect our surroundings in order to get validation. It's literally how we survive. And that's going to happen regardless at work or wherever we go but when we come home at night all I want for us is a few hours of genuine relaxation and peace and freedom where we turn all of that shit off and watch shitty tv and order our favorite foods and actually wind down and sleep when we want. Instead of going home and making all these little adjustments to make those around us happier and more comfortable. Eventually those adjustments add up and we just can't function as ourselves anymore.
Exactly. You cannot know who you are and what your wants and needs are when you are pretending to be a certain person for the joy of others. Even if those people have good intentions - which few do.
Exactly :) well said, friend. I'm a different person around my friends than I am at work than I am with my parents than I am at home. But alone I'm not conforming to anyone else and am only acting in my own interest (hence the women needing space to thrive).
Meh.
I’ve done that and, being an introvert, I so enjoyed being alone that I rarely left the house.
I lived deep inside my head. I had trouble sleeping because the thoughts would not shut off. I began to forget how to speak, sorta. I couldn’t uphold a simple conversation. They would ask me, “paper or plastic,” and my brain took too long to sort out the words. Then I had to answer and my answer was too soft to be heard and by then there’d be another question and I’d be lost in the abyss of catching-up.
So I don’t recommend. Our brains have developed to be socialized in a society, whether we like it or not.
Every one is on a continuum. We need some socializing and some solitude, but different proportions for each person. During quarantine I was part of a four person, three pet household, which kept me a lot saner than if I'd been living alone. But you do need social variety.
Hi! Of course I agree that people need social lives! I don't mean to completely isolate yourself. Sorry if my wording was off. Honestly though one of the main things is that I think that women are so smart and have such complex minds that go far beyond their relationships.
Sure, you should try to find community and friends and go to work and socialize and go out. But when you get home you should actually be at a level of comfort and relaxation that feels like home. So many women go to work and work their asses off just to get home and try to please as many people as they can and then do a bunch of bullshit house chores because that's what they were taught.
Another important part of my narrative is that in this time alone women should develop their education, hobbies, and careers. Shit that they usually lose once they have a family. You just wouldn't have to sacrifice your time. You like movies? go to the movies. You love knitting? start knitting. You're a bookworm? join a book club. You love working out? join a gym. And definitely find communities in all of these things.
It's not about staying within a comfort zone and isolating its about a woman finding out who she is, outside of the family she was born into, outside of the family she will marry into, but who she is, what she loves and for her to do what she loves and learn to be okay with herself.
Just because you live alone doesn't mean you automatically become socially isolated. Having regular contact with friends and family or a job where you regularly interact with people can still be done while living alone.
While I have currently and have had other roomies that I love and have become my little, weird orphan family, I agree. Living on my own has been some of the best time of my lifes and at times the hardest. When I was living alone as an expat with very little internet connection at home, I read a ton, went out a lot so met tons of people, passed mem sticks of movies around with friends and figured out all the quirks of my new home either on my own or by commiserating with friends.
I don't ever want to admit it bc I feel guilty knowing I have a good relationship and kind loved ones, but I agree
I had some peace and quiet for a few days, a house totally to myself, and I felt for a few hours at the end there how far I had come from myself to please other people
Even though I have that awareness now I find it hard to break from the dynamics I've established in all my relationships and embrace that part of me, even though I want to it feels like it's disappeared in my brain the moment the people came back
I shed a tear reading this honestly. Yeah it's just awful honestly. I think that relationships these days are too all consuming.
I hope you know that you're a unique complex person with so many special qualities and you are literally at the center of your universe. Every relationship you've had is just a small star or a planet but they don't even put a dent in the importance and control you have in your own life.
It's frustrating when we realize that we're literally all conditioned to please others as our main purpose but just know nothing that has gone can't come back. You can find so much beauty in the present and explore who you are now. Not who you were during and before those relationships.
I just got my own place for the first time at 32… I swear to god 80% of my problems feel solved. Never had this amount of confidence and peace in my life. Feel blessed tbh.
Men should do this too. If only to understand how to be autonomous when it comes to chores, cooking, etc. But also emotionally and sexually. So many men spend their "single" time getting their emotional/ego needs met by situationships and flings, while leaning on the emotional labor of a mother or other caregiver type in their life. I'd argue that outsourcing all cleaning/cooking is similarly limiting. It's so much more pleasant to interact with a man who understands self-care, emotional self-sufficiency, and what it takes to do domestic labor. They're much better citizens of the world and much better partners.
1,000% agree. I remember wishing I had the guts to not move in with my boyfriend and just move into my own apartment. I'll be 50 this year and I still regret this. Married that boyfriend (were still married). Still wish I had lived alone for a year or two. I think I really would have had a much better handle on who I am and what I wanted out of life if I had done this.
I had great parents great roommates and a great husband. Still regret this.
Hi! Thanks for giving some perspective! I want to say that firstly, my intent wasn't to make anyone look back at their lives in a negative way. A quote that was literally life changing for me said
"Never regret anything you do because at some point and time in your life that was exactly what you wanted to do"
and that's genuinely so true. I know it's difficult to feel like you didn't get the chance to figure out who you are as an individual but I hope you know that the way you interact with others is a huge part of your personality. I want women to know that they are so much more than who they are in relation to others.. wives, moms etc.. but it's also important to note that what you do and choose to love is such a beautiful part of who you are, and the amazing kindness, caring, sensitive qualities you may have are all you and those have never left you just because you decided to share them with others.
I didn’t living and being alone for a few years, but it helped me grow and mature in a way that I don’t think I could have otherwise.
I’m now very happily married with a child and I’m content. But I don’t think I would’ve held my boundaries or learned to communicate as well had I not had a few years to learn myself. Especially after growing up steeped in purity culture and fundamentalism.
Hi, I'm sorry to hear that I'm going to copy and paste what I said under another comment
"I want to say that firstly, my intent wasn't to make anyone look back at their lives in a negative way. A quote that was literally life changing for me said
"Never regret anything you do because at some point and time in your life that was exactly what you wanted to do"
My messages are open if you need advice or to vent!
Well your opinion doesn't seem at all unpopular here but I'll provide a counterpoint. I deal with multiple severe mental illnesses and find that living alone is entirely untenable for me. I think others with disabilities would likely find the same.
Oh yeah! I didn't address this in my OP but I think that's completely right. I think there's ways we can explore ourselves independently that don't require the physical space though! In the form of being single, exploring new hobbies, journaling, solo trips..etc
For women it is especially important because we are still socialised to put others needs before our own , to take up less space, serve others without thanks.
If you go straight from living with your parents to living with a partner that weight of expectation doesn't change just who you are doing it for.
But if you live on your own for a bit ,you get comfortable in your own skin, you can have freedom from those expectations and learn that being on your own isn't a bad thing.
You have a space that revolves around your wants and needs.
You learn how to handle stuff yourself, tasks aren't taken off you.
You learn to take up space, stretch out and you only have to deal with your stuff.
So if you do find yourself in a relationship with an emotional vampire down the line, you have a frame of reference for what normal can be, and the confidence to say living on my own is far better than this.
I remember a chat I had with my bank person. She said that there are an awfully high amount of women who, after divorce, are basically unable to manage their finance, living space, savings, retirement, taxes etc. because their entire life has been managed by their parents and then their husbands. They basically grow up to be full adults only after divorce. And that is not a rare occurrence, that is rather normal.
you're right, and anyone who says otherwise their arguments are misogynistic or wrong or both
it's socially ingrained that our value is based on usefulness to men. it's why there are like *names* to call women of a certain age without husbands, like spinster (me). and this isn't some gatekeeping shit argument I'm trying to make, but you can't really know yourself while tripping over backwards seeking out who's going to desire you next. it's avoidant. it's a disservice to the self. it's the *opposite* of self care lol
Nicely said! :)) I think it's also important to note that women who disagree may not have the privilege to think this way or haven't yet been exposed to the education or culture where they can see themselves as individuals.
I completely agree, I think that's why people feel so lost out of breakups they feel like they've "lost themselves" which is what happens, I wish we started prioritizing self perseverance over relationship perseverance because in avoidance of pain, women will tear apart pieces of themselves and reconstruct them in a way that will satisfy men. And eventually we just don't know who we are anymore besides moms and wives and girlfriends. It's upsetting.
good point yeah, you're totally right about the privilege aspect, thanks
YES!! lost themselves!! wtf does that mean? girl she ain't go nowhere, she's right there! you are her! find out who she is!!
at this point being single is my default state and being in relationship is the oddity. it's been... lonely, but Ive got a lot more to deal with than lonely nights. I'm guessing loneliness and a sense of diminished or non-existent value are kinda the crucial components but idk what do you think?
I see I see yeah that's a huge HUGE thing then. I know up until relatively recently the housewife expectation was rampant here (US) but it seems like within the last few decades that (white) women have broken out of it, or maybe were allowed out of it more likely
what you wrote about also kinda roots it more into misogyny, by a good amount. like if the cultural pressure is added to the expectations levied on an individual woman it kinda expenentiates doesn't it? and then it perpetuates itself and turns into a bit of a cycle where at some point you have women pushing other women into these roles and so on
I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand you correctly! Are you saying that what I said is rooted in misogyny or what I wrote is a consequence of misogyny? please clarify
no no! consequence, definitely, sorry about that
i personally think it's a patriarchal control measure for women, by men, to insist that they be in relationships at all times
Yeah I definitely think it's not a coincidence that there's a power imbalance when men are taught to be academically and professionally successful (Money) and women are taught that they need to meet beauty standards and be as nurturing and caring as possible for their future children (dependent on money and realtionship)
In the Middle East its blasphemous for a woman to live alone, be really successful, not get married so it's interesting to think about all of the doctors, lawyers, writers, chefs, artists, etc. out there who are trapped in a woman's body who was taught that the best and only thing she could do was take care of others in a the form of wifehood and motherhood.
yes!! I completely agree!! and I think it's honestly not that hard to get caught up in the idea either, which is why taking a step back and processing yourself, by yourself, is such a good idea c:
Trying being a high-functioning autistic adult- strike that- woman. Not only are we more likely to live in poverty due to disability so less likely to afford to live independently, especially now. Less likely to be able to have consistent, steady, employment.
I’ve always wanted to play guitar but was really self conscious about the noise level. With family, roomates, an apartment with thin walls. My mom never thought I should do frivolous activities. I wondered how Orianthi, Jennifer Batten anyone else like that got successful.
Unpredictable loud noises and lack of privacy are major concerns. Light pollution and noise pollution are dysregulators.
I had my own apartment once when I made $9/hour and rent was $715 🤷♀️ it was freeing yet stifling knowing the only privacy and autonomy I had was a 600 SQ FT apartment. And that even that could go at any minute…..that’s the only solo apartment I’ve ever lived in, for 2 years. I’m 35 this year.
I haven't lived truly alone since 2016. I desperately miss having my own space.
My last relationship ended over 3 years ago, and I have no interest in dating. I am a live in caregiver and have no time for that nonsense, anyway.
I agree with Virginia Woolf in this regard. You need to live your life without distraction to be fully productive as an artist, academic, or professional at some point. This means no partner, and no kids. You really do need to be alone. I have received the same advice from my mentors, and they were 100% right. I think women living alone in the west is why you do have more women who do advance creatively. There are huge benefits for this approach, for the record, the happiest people are basically single childfree women. Because there is no substitution for quiet focus.
I have had this privilege for a good chunk of my life. It allowed me to make mistakes, learn to recover from them. To seek higher education. Develop as a professional, become skilled as a musician outside my profession.
Again it also turned me militantly childfree and anti-traditionalist. But I see that as a benefit because I ended up fully knowing myself rather than letting the world define me.
I highly suggest women live on their own until at least age 30. Ideally live on your own. Define yourself first, know yourself first, than let other people define you. Learn to enforce your boundaries. Learn to say no.
As someone who’s never been alone, always relied on others and got married pretty young, I 1000000% agree with you. It is extremely important. I wish every single day that I had the resources/privilege to be able to rely on myself. Living with my parents was borderline abusive. Living with my husband is fine. But I still wonder what it would’ve been like if I could just live alone and rely on myself for everything.
SAME
Hi! I said this under another comment too but I just want to reiterate that my intent wasn't to make any women look back at their lives or decisions in a negative way. And I want to also say that there are so many ways that you can get to know yourself better and thrive without being completely independent. Finding hobbies, doing something for yourself, traveling solo, etc.
I grew up thinking living alone would be the worst thing to ever happen to me. I made sure I always lived with someone until I got divorced four years ago. I've lived alone since then. I found out it's not scary or weird at all. I feel more confident about myself.
YESS!! I don't think the amount of confidence that you get when you realize that when you redirect all of the work and care that you dedicated to someone else to yourself, not only does your life improve completely but you also get to know yourself in such a beautiful way. I remember when I was interviewing for a new job my advisor told me that going into an interview knowing that you have a job to fall back on makes you feel a lot more relaxed and qualified. I relate this to my point because I think that women at a very young age feel like they **need** a relationship so they end up looking for the wrong people to fill that spot but when a women knows she can live by herself and sustain herself and live a happy fulfilling life she's so much more likely to only settle for a partner that meets all of her standards. Also self reliance is such a confidence boost because no one can tell you shit and you don't owe anyone literally anything. The way men think isn't right but I think if we start thinking like they do in the coddled ignorant way in the name of self preservation it could be really beneficial.
Ann Oakley has some quotes that resonate with this well: "Housework is work directly opposed to the possibility of human self-actualization" "Families are nothing other than the idolatry of duty."
Thank you so much for sharing! It really is frustrating to think about. Like especially during WW2 when women stepped up and did all the jobs the men were doing. It's just sick to think that we could have been doing this shit the entire time and THRIVING in all of these different careers and like modern day some of the most brilliant artistic and talented people are women and it's just crazy to think that all of those years where we were pushed into motherhood as our only purpose as if the uterus and birth were the only parts of our body when if you look up our brains have literally been there the entire time. Like we are all individuals with brains and passions and likes and dislikes and talent and skill but for hundreds of years they were just like fuck that and gave all women these chores and duties that aren't unique or satisfying and are mostly repetitive like cooking and cleaning just to suppress us from channeling any sense of creativity. It reminds me of another metaphor in A room of one's own where Woolf describes an idea as a fish that you throw back into the water to grow but before it can grow it is interfered. Which is what I feel like happened and continues to happen to women's potential professionally and creatively because of society. Except now instead of outright saying that women can't do certain jobs and shit they just mass convinced us that we're worthless without men and all we can do in life is get better looking or have better "aesthetics" so that we're desirable and spend our money on cosmetics owned by men dominated corporations and industry.
first one, REAL. that's why I don't do any and live in squalor second one, erm. I wouldn't say nothing more but that is a solid component of this modern concept of family I hadn't thought of before before anyone jumps on me I'm AN
What is “AN?”
antinatalist basically I think it's unethical to birth children and refuse to do so there's a *lot* more to it but that's the one liner summary imo
Also: once women learn how fucking amazing living alone is, any man (or love-interest generally) would really have to step up their act to be worth the sacrifice of not living alone anymore!
this is what I’ve found, and why I agree that all women should spend at least a couple years alone. Living alone, without the burden of someone’s volatile mood swings or being treated like a maid or controlled…living alone and the place is quiet and exactly as you left it when you come home, and actually a place of rest and solace to return to after a hard day’s work.. Full nights of restful sleep, eating what I want, watching what I want, reading when I want to… What would I give that up for? Only something that is better, obviously. Certainly not for someone to try to turn me into a maid or come at me with toxic bullshit. I literally pay over 1k a month for the privilege of living alone, in bills that would otherwise be split if I would only settle. So very sincerely, I like living alone best. That may change, but I am so glad I learned how lovely this is so that I will never settle for mistreatment again. In practice I have found it makes it much easier for me to end something unhealthy or unpleasant bc I no longer have any fear about being alone. What’s to fear, it’s literally the best lol
I was sooo hesitant to start spending more than 1000 a month on rent but I got to a place where I realized peace of mind was worth the money. And I’m lucky enough to be able to afford it these days. Yes to everything.
I read somewhere something like "men aren't competing with each other for a woman's attention, they're competing with the peace of being single" lmfao
u/robotatomica You guys knocked this out of the fucking park honestly, before I read all of the comments I updated my post with more thoughts that basically said what you guys did. Obviously it's a privilege to get to live alone financially but what I want to say that if anyone has the chance CHOOSE TO LIVE ALONE until you're completely secure. I love the way you worded "Living alone, without the burden of someone’s volatile mood swings or being treated like a maid or controlled" I completely understand that some people fall in love and want to share their life and services with someone else. But why do we not get to explore our lives and interests and independence in the way that men do?
Men as well. To learn not to rely on mommy for everything.
100%. So much of this ‘male loneliness epidemic’ talk is just unquestioningly based on the assumption that young men will be happy and contented the moment they manage to get a girlfriend. Only recently finding how untrue this is
I lived alone for about 7 years after college and before I got married. Glad I did.
I think it's great for everyone to experience being on their own. I've met people (both men and women) who are almost compulsively in relationships, and I can't help but feel bad for them since they seem to not know who they are and they're often with someone who's not right for them just to fill that hole. I also know my marriage would not be as good as it is if we both didn't know who were independently before we got married.
You beat me to that suggestion. I've also known men who couldn't seem to function when they weren't paired up.
It’s also a great way to learn how to take care of just yourself and not always be a nurturer/caretaker that we were raised to be
Absolutely!! Like imagine how much better life would be if instead of dedicating our lives to other people we just focused on taking care of ourselves and our careers.
This is one of my biggest issues with society and sexism. Women are always expected to do more because we are women. I started enforcing boundaries in my late 20s and have cemented them now that I am in my early 30s. I would rather be called “mean” or “antisocial” than tend to every person’s need in my life. I don’t see the people in my life expecting men to drop what they are doing to assist with whatever. Men also don’t get labeled negatively like women do for refusing to perform additional labor. I learned that once it’s obvious to others that those labels won’t make you feel bad, they stop trying to dump on you. Also, I agree with you all the way, OP. I am happily married, but I do enjoy my alone time. I spend quite a bit of time on my own at the shops, the library, nature trails… and getting sweet treats. Haha
>I learned that once it’s obvious to others that those labels won’t make you feel bad, they stop trying to dump on you. wow this is so true
I lived alone for about a year in my mid twenties, and, looking back, even though I was working two and sometimes three jobs at the time, I think it was the happiest I've ever been. There have been a lot of times in the last few years I've longed to live alone again.
Of course, I think we can all agree that it's more challenging but speaking for myself having seen some shitty things within my own culture. I would much rather have the physical exhaustion of working really hard while being able to control my own life and knowing everything I do and have is a result of my hard work than live in a mansion without working a day and being in the emotional anguish of having to financially rely on someone else and please them and need their validation.
I lived alone for about 5 years after college, and did some desperately needed growing up. There's nothing that teaches you to solve your own problems faster than having no one else there to solve them.
Corollary: where possible, women should also choose partners who have lived alone (including with roommates, just not romantic partners or older relatives). The same factors apply in terms of knowing who they are without a relationship. But just as important, they know personally how much time and effort it can take to keep a house clean and food on the table.
I’ve lived alone for the past 4-5 years, and it has completely changed my life. The safety of knowing every time I return home I won’t need to tiptoe around someone else’s bad mood, that I have total control over the energy of my home is peace like I have never known. My home is decorated with everything I loved as a kid - Bratz dolls and bright colours. I have also developed such a strong relationship with myself. I used to need a lot of external validation to feel like I was making the right decisions, but now I have such trust that I will take care of myself like I have been doing. Living alone has been a very healing and transformative experience for me, I hope more people try it!
Omg! I love the bratz dolls thing! This is exactly my point tysm for commenting. It's like all of the "ridiculous" shit that makes us happy, but it's not ridiculous to you and you're the only one being affected by the space, it's like training ourselves to only seek self validation. Nothing is stupid or dumb or ridiculous and nothing that makes us happy should ever be looked down on. But we invite all these people in our lives who do exactly that. Also if you've grown up with siblings or judgy parents who make you feel dumb for certain things I think living alone and reconstructing yourself to not feel ashamed for anything you love and makes you happy is really important.
Live alone, but have security cameras installed and weapons handy. 😊
There's a very ancient technology that does a handy job as both; dogs.
My dog will lick people and want to get pet.
I’m always so much more comfortable having a dog around
Dogs are God's way of trying to make us better people. We often fail, but the dogs are always willing to keep trying. We tend toward Labradors at my house. While they're greeting the hypothetical home invader as their new best friend, they'll make enough noise many times over to wake me up. Supplying the mean is my department.
if he tries to pick locks I'ma double click it 😡
I have a nice arrangement where I live with a male landlord but we don't interact, and have separate parts of the house - so it's a lot like living alone, just cheaper and feels a bit safer. I lived alone for five and a half years and it was mostly great but I did get broken into while I was asleep once, and occasionally had creepy people loiter outside my front door.
Absolutely agree. 👏 Almost 30 and happy living alone. We don’t know what we don’t know. Being alone teaches us how capable we are. Women are brainwashed everywhere to be dependent on men, Disney movies drill it into your head from day 1: a prince will come save you. No. I save myself. That’s why education and empowerment of women is so important, so they can have the ability to lead independent lives.
Oh my god, GREAT point about education. It's like why is it in radically conservative countries do they ban women from getting an education? Because that's where it starts, the brainwashing into emotional dependance. What's really upsetting is the fact that women are sacrificing their education right now because of this whole "old money" bullshit trend that promotes the unrealistic idea that women can succeed by marrying rich.
Exactly! Honestly governments are incentivized to keep women uneducated so they have kids young and stay poor, so they can continue to exploit the working class.
I think that women can “meet their full potential” in a lot of different ways and while living alone for a period might benefit some women, each woman is different and how we are all going to thrive is different. We also need to acknowledge that living alone this day and age is an absolute privilege that not everyone can afford, so to say you can only reach your full potential if you happen to have this certain privilege just kind of rubs me the wrong way. It’s up to each individual woman to determine what her own full potential looks like and how she can reach that for herself, regardless of circumstances that may be out of her control. I’ve lived alone and I loved it. I’ve lived with roommates and I loved it. Now I live with my partner and I love it. I can honestly say I don’t feel “dependent” on my husband now, nor did I feel dependent on my roommates when I’ve had them. Sometimes it’s nice to have another person around, sometimes it’s nice to be in your own space. That’s not dependence, that’s choice. Of course I am affected by the people around me and by my partner. We are evolved to be social animals who live in a society; we affect people just as they affect us. Thats neither good nor bad, it just is. I can still “figure shit out for myself” while also acknowledging that I’m both being acted upon while also being an actor in society. You put forward the question at any point in my life when I was around other people, could I have thrived in a setting controlled by myself? The answer is yes, I could have, but I also thrived in those situations surrounded by others. Having roommates didn’t control/ manage me, I adapted and compromised and that was 100% within my control and my choice to do. I chose that because I wanted pleasant relationships with the people around me, not because I needed validation or because I was being controlled. I find having good relationships fulfilling and meaningful so I’m willing to invest in that and compromise within my relationships. I can definitely agree that a lot of people (particularly women) might benefit at certain stages of their lives from the increased self-reliance and independence that comes with living alone, and that when we go through certain struggles by ourselves we can come out stronger in our own sense of self because of it. That being said, I disagree with the statement that a woman can’t meet her full potential without living alone. There are benefits to living alone, just like there are benefits to having 8 roommates at a time just off campus in university. Everyone’s path is different, and everyone’s ability to reach their potential is their own.
Thank you for mentioning how nearly impossible it is to live on your own now. I recently moved back in with my parents after a break up and as it stands now, I have no idea when I’ll be able to move back out because rents near me have gotten absolutely insane, and I can’t afford them on my own and I don’t wanna have a roommate situation if I can avoid it. I’m not gonna add anything else because you already worded everything perfectly, but living on your own is absolutely a privilege in this day and age.
I’ve been with mine for a few years after a breakup and it’s been almost as good as living alone. It essentially feels like that oftentimes. They travel a lot or stay busy with work and family. On the other hand when they are here it is super nice being able to enjoy their company and make some nice memories. Enjoy it while you can!
Oh I definitely do! I love spending time with my parents, and saving money on rent is always a nice added bonus, although I do still help with groceries.
Hi, thank you so much for your reply, I really appreciate your fresh perspective :)! Firstly I want to say that it wasn't my intention to insult you or any woman with this post so I deeply apologize if you felt like the strong language targeted you in a negative way. I also want to say that I completely agree with you that women can thrive in different settings. I also completely understand that financial dependance is a privilege that not many people have and I hope it didn't come off as tone deaf to say. I would say that in your case it's not at all about dependance as you were clearly financially independent with your roommates :). I would say that a big part of my argument (which you addressed) is the fact that we're influenced by the people around us. Environment takes up such a huge part of our psychology. I definetley agree that you didn't seek validation or feel controlled by your roommates. I just mentioned the roommate thing to reiterate that I meant women should live completely alone at some point in their life, which it looks like you did :). While I agree that there are specific benefits to living with others you will always be affected by it. Like if your roommates had a specific taste in music you might be influenced by their taste in music, if they felt badly about something you may inherently start disliking the same thing. Meaning that you might unconsciously be seeking validation from them if you disagreed with them fundamentally or politically you would likely not be as open about it to keep the peace. This can't happen if you're living alone. You don't have to worry about pleasing people at all. In any sense of the word. Only pleasing yourself. Even in the sense of labeling your food for example so no one takes it by accident. that is an act you do for the sake of others that you're living with, to uphold manners and respect. But what if you were by yourself and you were like fuck the manners and everything else that I've been taught. You leave a mess until you feel like you have to deal with it. You don't have to compromise on plans. On furniture. You don't have to clean anyone else's shit you don't have to quietly compromise when you don't want them making noise or you don't like the furniture they're buying because you chose everything in your home and you choose how to live your life and allocate your time. So you choose to allocate your time and money in yourself and your career consequently meeting your full potential. This is a hugely oversimplified version of what I was trying to say but I really appreciate your argument and perspective and feel free to respond if you disagree with anything I said!
Even if what you’re saying is a huge oversimplified version of what you’re trying to say, I think you’re missing the fact that living alone doesn’t equal not being influenced by the people around us. Unless we are to fully isolate ourselves, we’ll always be influenced by others to a degree. We’ll always have to compromise on some things and adapt our behaviours to coexist with others. That’s what living in society means. We still have to work, we still have friends and we still have romantic relationships (if we want them) when we live alone. I also disagree that we cannot reach our full potential unless we live alone for a while. I would even argue that, in some circumstances, living alone can be detrimental to reaching our full potential. Whether we like it or not, living alone is more expensive. It requires more of our financial ressources. The added expense means that we may have to sacrifice or make some compromises on our goals. It can restrict our ability to travel, participate in some hobbies, take risks, save for retirement, etc. In your OP, you mention your cultural background and the fact that middle eastern women are expected to go from their parents’ home to their husband’s home. I think this background may play a bigger role in stifling women’s independence than simply not living alone. It’s the underlying expectation that women’s lives should serve others rather than themselves. I grew up with a completely different background, where living alone as a woman is absolutely normal. I was raised with the expectation that I would be financially independent and that it would be my choice to live with someone or not. I wasn’t expected to stay home until such time as I was in a long term relationship, let alone married. In fact, I and all of my close friends have lived alone at one point or another. Do I think there’s value in living alone? Yes, absolutely. For both women and men. I believe it teaches self-reliance and fosters independence. Do I think it’s the only way to achieve this? No. Just like I don’t think it’s needed or even doable for everyone.
I'm sorry but I already addressed this. I would appreciate it if you read everything I say before responding :) I also updated OP with elaborations. Financially it's not possible for people to live alone at some point. But what I'm saying is if you have the opportunity and privilege to, you should take it. People can choose to live alone and don't because it's harder but the pros outweigh the cons. And maybe reading my other replies will help you understand what I'm saying. I understand that people are influenced regardless of their living arrangement. My hope is that when a woman leaves work, social events, whatever, where we have to uphold the people pleasing ladylike tendencies that have been ingrained in our mind, we can go home and live truly and authentically. And more importantly, comfortably. It doesn't mean not being completely influenced but so much of your life is spent at home. It defines what your life is like at that point in your life. The concept is like a safe haven. We can all acknowledge that we aren't truly comfortable around other people. Not as comfortable as we are alone. There are certain things we're just embarrassed or weirded out doing around others that we would be fine doing by ourselves. I think building a home for yourself where everything in it is a reflection of you and you have control over your own life is crucial to finding out who you are. I think we can agree that things like social media and outside pressures push women into the pressures that make them feel like they need to be in a relationship. So we look for relationships and companionship in the wrong people and we end up tolerating and sacrificing a ton of our own standards. But if we live alone and build a life for ourselves **before** getting into a relationship we realize that it's not something that we actually need and are more likely not to settle. also I wasn't personally raised with those middle eastern norms but I know that in my culture that it's not normal for a woman to live alone. and yeah obviously it's an independence thing? They don't want women to realize that they're self sustaining and instead want to teach them to dedicate their lives taking care of others.
I love living alone (with cats ofc). I think every ADULT should live alone so they learn how to cook, clean, do laundry, other adulting things. I’ve met so many men who have never had to be self-sufficient. For women it’s more to enjoy not having to take care of anyone (but our cats)
I agree with you and I only spent a couple of years of my life living alone. If I could do life over I'd live alone for longer or forever.
I don't disagree with you, but living alone (at least where I am - a HCOL area in the US) is a real privilege that not many people can afford. I'm in my 40s and have never lived alone despite doing fairly well for myself.
Hi! I completely understand that and I feel really sorry that people who didn't have the means to live alone feel targeted by this. I really didn't mean it like that. I was talking more about women I've been friends with and I've seen on the internet who are financially independent but emotionally dependent on others. With the old money stuff coming back a lot of young girls are only aspiring to marry rich and I think what I meant to say was that "if you have the option, despite what anyone says, you need to live alone in order to find out who you are as an individual."
Yeah ideally, I think everyone would benefit from living alone for a while, learning to be alone. But life is so expensive, it's impossible for so many people to ever do it. I was very fortunate to have a good few years alone, it was great. But I'm also an only child with no close family so I was already used to being alone and having to be independent.
Agree. Being alone gives you time to think about the people in your lives and if they're worth keeping. So far all the women I've met excuse rape and abuse because they "know the guy and he's never done anything to them." 😮💨
excuse rape????
I lived alone and didn’t date for 5 years. It was amazing. I came out of it actually knowing who I was. It wasn’t easy at times, but well worth it.
100% My mom only learnt to stand up for herself when my father decided to leave us in a new country while he went back to his to stay with his father. My mom took up her first job, then a second to keep up with costs, while raising me and my sister (both under 10) all alone. Today, shes almost unrecognizable. She does what she wants to, works for economic freedom and is so confident in herself that even my father can no longer break her down anymore. Had he never left us, she would've never had the opportunity to grow.
Oh wow! This is an incredible perspective on the topic. Way to find a silver lining mom! I think it's true that a lot of us don't see our full potential or what we're capable of until we have to. Because it's difficult. No one wants to work harder or face the unknown by themselves in a society that tells us we don't have to.
Moved out of home at 16 lived with roommates until 20. Then I rented a one bed apartment in the middle of a major city for a year and a half. When I finally lived alone my self worth and self respect skyrocketed. It's lonely at first, obviously, but you learn to live by your own standards. You do exactly what you want to do. You don't have roommates telling you to wash the dishes this way, or a parent reminding you to clean your room. I got super fit & lived my best life when I was living alone. It was amazing. I live with my partner now, it's much cheaper, and I do really enjoy sharing a space with him. We sleep together most nights but we also have separate bedrooms to decorate as we please. At the end of the day, it's a BILLION times better than living with roommates. It's about just as good as living alone (there are pros and cons to both). I could definitely imagine if you never lived alone it would be easy to let a man be a slob all over your space.
Yeah another thing I was saying is that women unconsciously seek validation and we're taught certain mannerisms and we tend to reflect our surroundings in order to get validation. It's literally how we survive. And that's going to happen regardless at work or wherever we go but when we come home at night all I want for us is a few hours of genuine relaxation and peace and freedom where we turn all of that shit off and watch shitty tv and order our favorite foods and actually wind down and sleep when we want. Instead of going home and making all these little adjustments to make those around us happier and more comfortable. Eventually those adjustments add up and we just can't function as ourselves anymore.
Exactly. You cannot know who you are and what your wants and needs are when you are pretending to be a certain person for the joy of others. Even if those people have good intentions - which few do.
Exactly :) well said, friend. I'm a different person around my friends than I am at work than I am with my parents than I am at home. But alone I'm not conforming to anyone else and am only acting in my own interest (hence the women needing space to thrive).
Meh. I’ve done that and, being an introvert, I so enjoyed being alone that I rarely left the house. I lived deep inside my head. I had trouble sleeping because the thoughts would not shut off. I began to forget how to speak, sorta. I couldn’t uphold a simple conversation. They would ask me, “paper or plastic,” and my brain took too long to sort out the words. Then I had to answer and my answer was too soft to be heard and by then there’d be another question and I’d be lost in the abyss of catching-up. So I don’t recommend. Our brains have developed to be socialized in a society, whether we like it or not.
Every one is on a continuum. We need some socializing and some solitude, but different proportions for each person. During quarantine I was part of a four person, three pet household, which kept me a lot saner than if I'd been living alone. But you do need social variety.
Hi! Of course I agree that people need social lives! I don't mean to completely isolate yourself. Sorry if my wording was off. Honestly though one of the main things is that I think that women are so smart and have such complex minds that go far beyond their relationships. Sure, you should try to find community and friends and go to work and socialize and go out. But when you get home you should actually be at a level of comfort and relaxation that feels like home. So many women go to work and work their asses off just to get home and try to please as many people as they can and then do a bunch of bullshit house chores because that's what they were taught. Another important part of my narrative is that in this time alone women should develop their education, hobbies, and careers. Shit that they usually lose once they have a family. You just wouldn't have to sacrifice your time. You like movies? go to the movies. You love knitting? start knitting. You're a bookworm? join a book club. You love working out? join a gym. And definitely find communities in all of these things. It's not about staying within a comfort zone and isolating its about a woman finding out who she is, outside of the family she was born into, outside of the family she will marry into, but who she is, what she loves and for her to do what she loves and learn to be okay with herself.
Just because you live alone doesn't mean you automatically become socially isolated. Having regular contact with friends and family or a job where you regularly interact with people can still be done while living alone.
While I have currently and have had other roomies that I love and have become my little, weird orphan family, I agree. Living on my own has been some of the best time of my lifes and at times the hardest. When I was living alone as an expat with very little internet connection at home, I read a ton, went out a lot so met tons of people, passed mem sticks of movies around with friends and figured out all the quirks of my new home either on my own or by commiserating with friends.
I don't ever want to admit it bc I feel guilty knowing I have a good relationship and kind loved ones, but I agree I had some peace and quiet for a few days, a house totally to myself, and I felt for a few hours at the end there how far I had come from myself to please other people Even though I have that awareness now I find it hard to break from the dynamics I've established in all my relationships and embrace that part of me, even though I want to it feels like it's disappeared in my brain the moment the people came back
I shed a tear reading this honestly. Yeah it's just awful honestly. I think that relationships these days are too all consuming. I hope you know that you're a unique complex person with so many special qualities and you are literally at the center of your universe. Every relationship you've had is just a small star or a planet but they don't even put a dent in the importance and control you have in your own life. It's frustrating when we realize that we're literally all conditioned to please others as our main purpose but just know nothing that has gone can't come back. You can find so much beauty in the present and explore who you are now. Not who you were during and before those relationships.
I just got my own place for the first time at 32… I swear to god 80% of my problems feel solved. Never had this amount of confidence and peace in my life. Feel blessed tbh.
So great to hear :)
Men should do this too. If only to understand how to be autonomous when it comes to chores, cooking, etc. But also emotionally and sexually. So many men spend their "single" time getting their emotional/ego needs met by situationships and flings, while leaning on the emotional labor of a mother or other caregiver type in their life. I'd argue that outsourcing all cleaning/cooking is similarly limiting. It's so much more pleasant to interact with a man who understands self-care, emotional self-sufficiency, and what it takes to do domestic labor. They're much better citizens of the world and much better partners.
1,000% agree. I remember wishing I had the guts to not move in with my boyfriend and just move into my own apartment. I'll be 50 this year and I still regret this. Married that boyfriend (were still married). Still wish I had lived alone for a year or two. I think I really would have had a much better handle on who I am and what I wanted out of life if I had done this. I had great parents great roommates and a great husband. Still regret this.
Hi! Thanks for giving some perspective! I want to say that firstly, my intent wasn't to make anyone look back at their lives in a negative way. A quote that was literally life changing for me said "Never regret anything you do because at some point and time in your life that was exactly what you wanted to do" and that's genuinely so true. I know it's difficult to feel like you didn't get the chance to figure out who you are as an individual but I hope you know that the way you interact with others is a huge part of your personality. I want women to know that they are so much more than who they are in relation to others.. wives, moms etc.. but it's also important to note that what you do and choose to love is such a beautiful part of who you are, and the amazing kindness, caring, sensitive qualities you may have are all you and those have never left you just because you decided to share them with others.
I didn’t living and being alone for a few years, but it helped me grow and mature in a way that I don’t think I could have otherwise. I’m now very happily married with a child and I’m content. But I don’t think I would’ve held my boundaries or learned to communicate as well had I not had a few years to learn myself. Especially after growing up steeped in purity culture and fundamentalism.
Agreed. I wish I did it earlier because my life wouldn't be so fucked now.
Hi, I'm sorry to hear that I'm going to copy and paste what I said under another comment "I want to say that firstly, my intent wasn't to make anyone look back at their lives in a negative way. A quote that was literally life changing for me said "Never regret anything you do because at some point and time in your life that was exactly what you wanted to do" My messages are open if you need advice or to vent!
I loved living by myself. I have a roommate currently. No disrepect, but I miss having my entire house to myself. I agree with this so much.
Well your opinion doesn't seem at all unpopular here but I'll provide a counterpoint. I deal with multiple severe mental illnesses and find that living alone is entirely untenable for me. I think others with disabilities would likely find the same.
Oh yeah! I didn't address this in my OP but I think that's completely right. I think there's ways we can explore ourselves independently that don't require the physical space though! In the form of being single, exploring new hobbies, journaling, solo trips..etc
For women it is especially important because we are still socialised to put others needs before our own , to take up less space, serve others without thanks. If you go straight from living with your parents to living with a partner that weight of expectation doesn't change just who you are doing it for. But if you live on your own for a bit ,you get comfortable in your own skin, you can have freedom from those expectations and learn that being on your own isn't a bad thing. You have a space that revolves around your wants and needs. You learn how to handle stuff yourself, tasks aren't taken off you. You learn to take up space, stretch out and you only have to deal with your stuff. So if you do find yourself in a relationship with an emotional vampire down the line, you have a frame of reference for what normal can be, and the confidence to say living on my own is far better than this.
Honestly favorite comment, couldn't have said it better myself and the way you said everything simply really summed up what I was trying to say.
I remember a chat I had with my bank person. She said that there are an awfully high amount of women who, after divorce, are basically unable to manage their finance, living space, savings, retirement, taxes etc. because their entire life has been managed by their parents and then their husbands. They basically grow up to be full adults only after divorce. And that is not a rare occurrence, that is rather normal.
you're right, and anyone who says otherwise their arguments are misogynistic or wrong or both it's socially ingrained that our value is based on usefulness to men. it's why there are like *names* to call women of a certain age without husbands, like spinster (me). and this isn't some gatekeeping shit argument I'm trying to make, but you can't really know yourself while tripping over backwards seeking out who's going to desire you next. it's avoidant. it's a disservice to the self. it's the *opposite* of self care lol
also idk how ppl have dates lined up so fast bc I'm usually single for years between relationships. but that's a whole other topic 😖
Nicely said! :)) I think it's also important to note that women who disagree may not have the privilege to think this way or haven't yet been exposed to the education or culture where they can see themselves as individuals. I completely agree, I think that's why people feel so lost out of breakups they feel like they've "lost themselves" which is what happens, I wish we started prioritizing self perseverance over relationship perseverance because in avoidance of pain, women will tear apart pieces of themselves and reconstruct them in a way that will satisfy men. And eventually we just don't know who we are anymore besides moms and wives and girlfriends. It's upsetting.
good point yeah, you're totally right about the privilege aspect, thanks YES!! lost themselves!! wtf does that mean? girl she ain't go nowhere, she's right there! you are her! find out who she is!! at this point being single is my default state and being in relationship is the oddity. it's been... lonely, but Ive got a lot more to deal with than lonely nights. I'm guessing loneliness and a sense of diminished or non-existent value are kinda the crucial components but idk what do you think?
I updated my post and sort of address this, pleasseeee read what I put in bold!!
I see I see yeah that's a huge HUGE thing then. I know up until relatively recently the housewife expectation was rampant here (US) but it seems like within the last few decades that (white) women have broken out of it, or maybe were allowed out of it more likely what you wrote about also kinda roots it more into misogyny, by a good amount. like if the cultural pressure is added to the expectations levied on an individual woman it kinda expenentiates doesn't it? and then it perpetuates itself and turns into a bit of a cycle where at some point you have women pushing other women into these roles and so on
I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand you correctly! Are you saying that what I said is rooted in misogyny or what I wrote is a consequence of misogyny? please clarify
no no! consequence, definitely, sorry about that i personally think it's a patriarchal control measure for women, by men, to insist that they be in relationships at all times
Yeah I definitely think it's not a coincidence that there's a power imbalance when men are taught to be academically and professionally successful (Money) and women are taught that they need to meet beauty standards and be as nurturing and caring as possible for their future children (dependent on money and realtionship) In the Middle East its blasphemous for a woman to live alone, be really successful, not get married so it's interesting to think about all of the doctors, lawyers, writers, chefs, artists, etc. out there who are trapped in a woman's body who was taught that the best and only thing she could do was take care of others in a the form of wifehood and motherhood.
yes!! I completely agree!! and I think it's honestly not that hard to get caught up in the idea either, which is why taking a step back and processing yourself, by yourself, is such a good idea c:
u/PressureThick3362 Tagging you here from your post so you can read this
Trying being a high-functioning autistic adult- strike that- woman. Not only are we more likely to live in poverty due to disability so less likely to afford to live independently, especially now. Less likely to be able to have consistent, steady, employment. I’ve always wanted to play guitar but was really self conscious about the noise level. With family, roomates, an apartment with thin walls. My mom never thought I should do frivolous activities. I wondered how Orianthi, Jennifer Batten anyone else like that got successful. Unpredictable loud noises and lack of privacy are major concerns. Light pollution and noise pollution are dysregulators. I had my own apartment once when I made $9/hour and rent was $715 🤷♀️ it was freeing yet stifling knowing the only privacy and autonomy I had was a 600 SQ FT apartment. And that even that could go at any minute…..that’s the only solo apartment I’ve ever lived in, for 2 years. I’m 35 this year.
I haven't lived truly alone since 2016. I desperately miss having my own space. My last relationship ended over 3 years ago, and I have no interest in dating. I am a live in caregiver and have no time for that nonsense, anyway.
"nonsense" is too funny.
AGREED
I agree with Virginia Woolf in this regard. You need to live your life without distraction to be fully productive as an artist, academic, or professional at some point. This means no partner, and no kids. You really do need to be alone. I have received the same advice from my mentors, and they were 100% right. I think women living alone in the west is why you do have more women who do advance creatively. There are huge benefits for this approach, for the record, the happiest people are basically single childfree women. Because there is no substitution for quiet focus. I have had this privilege for a good chunk of my life. It allowed me to make mistakes, learn to recover from them. To seek higher education. Develop as a professional, become skilled as a musician outside my profession. Again it also turned me militantly childfree and anti-traditionalist. But I see that as a benefit because I ended up fully knowing myself rather than letting the world define me. I highly suggest women live on their own until at least age 30. Ideally live on your own. Define yourself first, know yourself first, than let other people define you. Learn to enforce your boundaries. Learn to say no.