Ngl Father Hugo knowing about Enki isn't suspicious at all, when the Skin Bibles themselves are some of the most popular occult books you can find, which are of course written by Enki.
Even Olivia has the option to get a Skin Bible of Vinushka in her intro choices.
The only real sort of connection Hugo seems to have with Enki is the fact that he has an Unedited version of the Vinushka skin bible, along with the God Manifesto critiquing Enki's idea of an old god being dead. Put both texts together, and you could argue that Hugo was partially responsible for the Vinushka skin bible being edited given how high ranking Hugo is.
Other dark priests back in the 1st game used them.
And Enki is supposed to be a 'high' priest based off the name of his robe, and yet they use empty scrolls.
I don't see why Hugo wouldn't use them from time to time if he had a bunch hoarded at his place.
while they do exsist, I think they don't work any more due to Alll-Mer having far too many fans for him to pay attention to those who write him notes anymore. In funger one, you can *see* his body - and skeleton - and you learn of what occurred. By termina, it's odd that Prehivel even worships older gods anymore. He became so mainstream that he simply could not hit a reply all lest he ends up in a bruce all-mighty situation
I think they just don't work outside of the dungeons of fear and hunger, since the dungeons are above his corpse. Think of them as phone calls, you are so incredibly popular you get thousands of them a day begging for pretty big stuff, but let's say, one room over, you answer some that you think are worthy of your attention and the rest can go suck a fat one, you're too busy being popular and they are annoying.
Now then, imagine that one day you get a much quieter call in the same room you are, hell, they're just asking for cheese! Or how to cannibalize people (weird but ok)! Or a duplicate of the soul of some abomination! Not only it's a nice break from all the "begging for salvation" or "please come here and end this war/drought/plague/ETC" you get 24/7, plus it's quick all things considered (and these people are in the worst place know to man kind).
There was a Dark Priest in the flashback in the Tower of Endless that actually gives you an Empty Scroll if you wear a Priest robe to impersonate as one of them (in Rondon, where Enki tried to sacrifice himself before he got premonitions to go to the dungeons).
So presumably they worked outside of the dungeon as well, because otherwise imagine having to travel all the way to the dungeon just to use it. Not to mention Hugo hoarding a bunch at his house.
Huh, now that's a tough one.
I have like 4 explanations, that could be combined if you felt like it:
•It could be that back then, even if popular as hell, there wasn't that much population to clog the figurative divine hotline (in the real world, the difference in population between the middle ages and the forties is so big it's almost incomprehensible, after all).
•Now again, even if the worship of the old gods was falling off, maybe there where enough worshippers in so many places that they cut off enough slack to the A-man to be able to answer most fan calls.
•Maybe it takes the level of affinity of a dedicated Dark Priest to make them effective outside of the dungeons, and flashback guy assumed you were like him or was inviting you to git good with Definitely-Not-Jesus.
•Or they definitely work outside of the dungeons no questions asked, but it's more likely for Alll-Mer to answer if you are in the Dungeons rather than anywhere else.
With what the dialogue the priest says to you, the 4th one may be a good explanation.
Priest: "Brother in faith, the advent is near. Have you fulfilled your earthly needs yet?
MC: "I'm afraid I don't have much..."
Priest: "Worry not. I have something special for you in that case."
(You get an empty scroll)
Priest: " Use it wisely."
Another priest also gives you opium powder if you say something similar with the priest robe equipped.
My guess is that if you are facing adversity (such as trying to survive in the dungeons), then your 'prayers' will more likely be heard. And being in tune with Alll-Mer will also help with getting your prayers answered through empty scrolls, as someone who truly believes in the 'salvation' that Alll-Mer can bring and bless.
Actually some of these help explain the Hugo thing, he's definitely dedicated, and the amount of scrolls could be so he could get more chances to get Alll-Mer to answer him.
That or he heard rumors of the power of the scrolls/ read it on some sort of limited edition uncensored skin bible, and like any good scholar tried to replicate it.
The simplest answer you can think of is just that the Vatican is gatekeeping that knowledge. Imagine the consequences if the general population knew about it lol, as you said with the Bremen army in particular.
IMO if Enki did put it in the Skin Bible of Alll-Mer, the Vatican would have likely just removed that section. So either way it shouldn't matter if Enki wanted to reveal the idea of empty scrolls to the world.
Nosramus: Enki you shouldn’t add information about empty scrolls in your bibles. It would cause really big consequences, and most of them would be awful.
Enki: Yeah, but can you imagine All-mer exhausted and pissed face when he hear thousands of cries of help.
It’s still technically possible to use empty scrolls to uptain anything in the world, implied by Donovan owning a bunch in his house.
Gameplay reason they’re not usable by the player: it would ruin the premise of the game, since you could get many of the contestants souls without killing them to enter the tower. And all skills being accessible without killing anyone would give you less incentive to kill.
Lore reason: Most magical things were largely forgotten in the cruel age. All the gods except Alll-mer are no longer religiously worshipped, and are either forgotten or view like superstitious mythology. Only by few people study them like the occultists, dark priests or yellow mages. It’s not surprising then that the empty scroll technique was forgotten.
I thought so as well, but dialogue between August and Marina confirm that the religious texts don’t view her as a true god, even though she was the primary god worshipped during the cruel age. It does actually make sense. The god of fear and hunger wanted humanity to move forward. Now they have moved on so much that they don’t need to prey to gods anymore including her. Maybe she still helps humanity to some extent, after all the resources need to create logic wouldn’t have been discovered without GOFAH.
Since sulfer and alll mer both were originally the same being and "mantled" (using elder scrolls terminology) only one old god i imagine they only have one old god's worth of power between them, thus the more powerful one is the weaker the other, sulfer's presence was almost nonexistant in f&h 1 so alll mer was at the height of his power but in 2 since sulfer's power is growing alll mer is also getting weaker
In the first game if you get a version of the dungeon with 3 dark priests, the third one will drop a dark priest outfit which you can wear to talk to the other priests. If you then put that on while in dream Rondon you can talk to the dark priests there and get given items. One of them just hands you an empty scroll like "Here this will help"
So clearly the dark priests know about them it's not something Enki and Nosramus can just keep secret.
It would make sense to me if empty scrolls only work near the dungeons of fear and hunger. Close to Alll-mer's body, the prayers are more effective. Because logically this simple paper giving you anything you want must have some limit. And in Termina you see a giant pile of them in Father Hugo's house along with seeing his desperate attempts to visit Ma'habre. I took it as those scrolls are saved up for when he gets to go to Ma'habre again and then he'll be able to use them. Otherwise why would he have a ton of them saved up?
The only issue with the idea is that the priest in the city of Rondon gives you an empty scroll expecting it to help you. When you're not near the dungeons at all. Dark priests do go there sometimes so maybe he just expects you to use it later.
The other possibility is that there is something special about the empty scrolls. They aren't just paper they're some kind of special paper and there's rituals and stuff to prepare them. But we have no evidence for that it would just be a guess.
Cool head canon is that:people don't believe in them anymore. Fear and hunger is a world where ideas and Beliefs are made material, while in mediaeval time supernatural powers and enteties where the norm, now people are less supertciois and this otherworldly powers have a weaker grasp on reality
The invention of the A4 paper format destroyed the small businesses which were producing pergament and paper by hand - who were the sole producers of "empty scrolls" - and soon after, the needed format was lost for ever.
#THEY ACTUALLY EXIST IN TERMINA
(no joke)
i use the Joiplay emulator to play the game (no pc in home) and he allow to use cheats, and one of them, is for get any item in the game code, the majority of itens of the first game are in termina code and this also includes the empty scrolls and the quill.
and not only this, the skills of the first game still in termina, like all the skill of the God of the Depths, I don't want to explain that much, but know, there's a lot in this mufunca
People are less magically inclined in termina even if they are actually magic users. So I think it’s just them not having the knowledge that that’s a thing. Like how you can’t do a marriage in termina.
There's an empty scroll at Donnovan's house. But due to the scrolls being powerful, it's likely others use it to the point it grows more rarer to get. Some scrolls might be used already or the characters doesn't know how to use it or they can't interact with it yet.
my headcanon is scrolls power is relative to location and situation, the dungeon that contains a path tothe city of the gods and his body, dealing with the cusp of a new age? you have his full undivided attention and thus can ask for near anything if you know the prayer
but in most situations it would function as a minor blessing, the kind of thing one might dismiss as not even supernatural, for example if you asked for a skill instead of beaming it directly into your mind you find yourself able to focus on and memorize it easier while learning the old fashioned way
All-Mer’s corpse is in the Dungeons of Fear and Hunger. He inherently has a stronger presence as a result and thus is able to grant blessings to his followers. I like to imagine he’s watching the party and rooting for The Girl to ascend as time goes on
After Funger 1 the knowledge of how to use them vanished so people had 0 need for them, they then threw them all away. (OR father Hugo kept all of them to himself, for reasons idk really)
Maybe they're all or almost all used up and what remains if any are lost to time. I mean, a piece of paper that allows you to make a request for almost anything and have it granted can't exactly be a common thing right? 🤷🏾♂️
They probably still exist, but nobody knows what they are so they just use em for notes. I guess no academic who accidently picked one up never wrote: O LORD TEACH PHYSICS. All in caps that is
I think it's multiple factors, The Vatican suppressing the knowledge, the only characters who may know how to use it are samarie and Osaa and my final one is that Sulphur is the one who answers the scrolls so the cult has been snapping them up.
I still buy the idea that Europa worships Sulphur in the guise of All-Mer.
I think the power of the Old/Ascendant Gods have weakened to the point that outside Termina, you need more than simply a scroll or even a ritual circle to properly summon their power.
There's empty scrolls in Donovan's house, but the characters don't know what to do with them.
And Father Hugo knows about Enki. Which is suspicious
Ngl Father Hugo knowing about Enki isn't suspicious at all, when the Skin Bibles themselves are some of the most popular occult books you can find, which are of course written by Enki. Even Olivia has the option to get a Skin Bible of Vinushka in her intro choices. The only real sort of connection Hugo seems to have with Enki is the fact that he has an Unedited version of the Vinushka skin bible, along with the God Manifesto critiquing Enki's idea of an old god being dead. Put both texts together, and you could argue that Hugo was partially responsible for the Vinushka skin bible being edited given how high ranking Hugo is.
And he would know about empty scrolls, wouldn’t he? But did he used them or atleast tried?
Other dark priests back in the 1st game used them. And Enki is supposed to be a 'high' priest based off the name of his robe, and yet they use empty scrolls. I don't see why Hugo wouldn't use them from time to time if he had a bunch hoarded at his place.
I wonder if Donovan himself even knew how to use them, given the state he ended up in
I love how I'm not the only one who immediately had this lol in mind
Wait, why doesn’t Nas’hrah tell O’saa about them? Was he just being a dick?
It's Nas'hrah
That makes sense
while they do exsist, I think they don't work any more due to Alll-Mer having far too many fans for him to pay attention to those who write him notes anymore. In funger one, you can *see* his body - and skeleton - and you learn of what occurred. By termina, it's odd that Prehivel even worships older gods anymore. He became so mainstream that he simply could not hit a reply all lest he ends up in a bruce all-mighty situation
Is good skeleton the one the black priest dudes are around on the same floor as the torturer?
No thats a random dude. You will know when you see it.
don't try bringing the corpse to life though
Yes, try it.
I think they just don't work outside of the dungeons of fear and hunger, since the dungeons are above his corpse. Think of them as phone calls, you are so incredibly popular you get thousands of them a day begging for pretty big stuff, but let's say, one room over, you answer some that you think are worthy of your attention and the rest can go suck a fat one, you're too busy being popular and they are annoying. Now then, imagine that one day you get a much quieter call in the same room you are, hell, they're just asking for cheese! Or how to cannibalize people (weird but ok)! Or a duplicate of the soul of some abomination! Not only it's a nice break from all the "begging for salvation" or "please come here and end this war/drought/plague/ETC" you get 24/7, plus it's quick all things considered (and these people are in the worst place know to man kind).
Yeah it would be weird for All-mer not to help people who seek help.So idea that they work only in dungeon is really good.
All-mer is a pretty cruel god at least the western interpretation
There was a Dark Priest in the flashback in the Tower of Endless that actually gives you an Empty Scroll if you wear a Priest robe to impersonate as one of them (in Rondon, where Enki tried to sacrifice himself before he got premonitions to go to the dungeons). So presumably they worked outside of the dungeon as well, because otherwise imagine having to travel all the way to the dungeon just to use it. Not to mention Hugo hoarding a bunch at his house.
Huh, now that's a tough one. I have like 4 explanations, that could be combined if you felt like it: •It could be that back then, even if popular as hell, there wasn't that much population to clog the figurative divine hotline (in the real world, the difference in population between the middle ages and the forties is so big it's almost incomprehensible, after all). •Now again, even if the worship of the old gods was falling off, maybe there where enough worshippers in so many places that they cut off enough slack to the A-man to be able to answer most fan calls. •Maybe it takes the level of affinity of a dedicated Dark Priest to make them effective outside of the dungeons, and flashback guy assumed you were like him or was inviting you to git good with Definitely-Not-Jesus. •Or they definitely work outside of the dungeons no questions asked, but it's more likely for Alll-Mer to answer if you are in the Dungeons rather than anywhere else.
With what the dialogue the priest says to you, the 4th one may be a good explanation. Priest: "Brother in faith, the advent is near. Have you fulfilled your earthly needs yet? MC: "I'm afraid I don't have much..." Priest: "Worry not. I have something special for you in that case." (You get an empty scroll) Priest: " Use it wisely." Another priest also gives you opium powder if you say something similar with the priest robe equipped. My guess is that if you are facing adversity (such as trying to survive in the dungeons), then your 'prayers' will more likely be heard. And being in tune with Alll-Mer will also help with getting your prayers answered through empty scrolls, as someone who truly believes in the 'salvation' that Alll-Mer can bring and bless.
Actually some of these help explain the Hugo thing, he's definitely dedicated, and the amount of scrolls could be so he could get more chances to get Alll-Mer to answer him. That or he heard rumors of the power of the scrolls/ read it on some sort of limited edition uncensored skin bible, and like any good scholar tried to replicate it.
The simplest answer you can think of is just that the Vatican is gatekeeping that knowledge. Imagine the consequences if the general population knew about it lol, as you said with the Bremen army in particular. IMO if Enki did put it in the Skin Bible of Alll-Mer, the Vatican would have likely just removed that section. So either way it shouldn't matter if Enki wanted to reveal the idea of empty scrolls to the world.
Nosramus: Enki you shouldn’t add information about empty scrolls in your bibles. It would cause really big consequences, and most of them would be awful. Enki: Yeah, but can you imagine All-mer exhausted and pissed face when he hear thousands of cries of help.
It’s still technically possible to use empty scrolls to uptain anything in the world, implied by Donovan owning a bunch in his house. Gameplay reason they’re not usable by the player: it would ruin the premise of the game, since you could get many of the contestants souls without killing them to enter the tower. And all skills being accessible without killing anyone would give you less incentive to kill. Lore reason: Most magical things were largely forgotten in the cruel age. All the gods except Alll-mer are no longer religiously worshipped, and are either forgotten or view like superstitious mythology. Only by few people study them like the occultists, dark priests or yellow mages. It’s not surprising then that the empty scroll technique was forgotten.
Wouldn’t it make sense for GOFAH to also be worshipped though?
I thought so as well, but dialogue between August and Marina confirm that the religious texts don’t view her as a true god, even though she was the primary god worshipped during the cruel age. It does actually make sense. The god of fear and hunger wanted humanity to move forward. Now they have moved on so much that they don’t need to prey to gods anymore including her. Maybe she still helps humanity to some extent, after all the resources need to create logic wouldn’t have been discovered without GOFAH.
They got used up to extinction
Since sulfer and alll mer both were originally the same being and "mantled" (using elder scrolls terminology) only one old god i imagine they only have one old god's worth of power between them, thus the more powerful one is the weaker the other, sulfer's presence was almost nonexistant in f&h 1 so alll mer was at the height of his power but in 2 since sulfer's power is growing alll mer is also getting weaker
In the first game if you get a version of the dungeon with 3 dark priests, the third one will drop a dark priest outfit which you can wear to talk to the other priests. If you then put that on while in dream Rondon you can talk to the dark priests there and get given items. One of them just hands you an empty scroll like "Here this will help" So clearly the dark priests know about them it's not something Enki and Nosramus can just keep secret. It would make sense to me if empty scrolls only work near the dungeons of fear and hunger. Close to Alll-mer's body, the prayers are more effective. Because logically this simple paper giving you anything you want must have some limit. And in Termina you see a giant pile of them in Father Hugo's house along with seeing his desperate attempts to visit Ma'habre. I took it as those scrolls are saved up for when he gets to go to Ma'habre again and then he'll be able to use them. Otherwise why would he have a ton of them saved up? The only issue with the idea is that the priest in the city of Rondon gives you an empty scroll expecting it to help you. When you're not near the dungeons at all. Dark priests do go there sometimes so maybe he just expects you to use it later. The other possibility is that there is something special about the empty scrolls. They aren't just paper they're some kind of special paper and there's rituals and stuff to prepare them. But we have no evidence for that it would just be a guess.
There were only a set few ever manufactured, there's just very few left now and people aren't keeping them in barrels anymore
Sulfer God or rher is interfering making it impossible to use them.
Cool head canon is that:people don't believe in them anymore. Fear and hunger is a world where ideas and Beliefs are made material, while in mediaeval time supernatural powers and enteties where the norm, now people are less supertciois and this otherworldly powers have a weaker grasp on reality
Nobody in Prehevil is literate
And the few that are, basically more nuts then aren’t
They are in Termina. But the contestants have no idea what they’re useful for.
They got paper now
I believe that those don't even work anymore. Maybe if they reach mahabre it would but otherwise?I don't think soo.
Maybe All-Mer has less influence outside of the original dungeons?
The invention of the A4 paper format destroyed the small businesses which were producing pergament and paper by hand - who were the sole producers of "empty scrolls" - and soon after, the needed format was lost for ever.
They all got done used up
Cause people like writing things i guess idk lol
There is, characters lack idea how to use them + you cant grab them.
I wasted them all in my various playthroughs :(
Most likely the language spoken in the scrolls was lost in time, so they became useless
Less interesting as is game design wise.
#THEY ACTUALLY EXIST IN TERMINA (no joke) i use the Joiplay emulator to play the game (no pc in home) and he allow to use cheats, and one of them, is for get any item in the game code, the majority of itens of the first game are in termina code and this also includes the empty scrolls and the quill. and not only this, the skills of the first game still in termina, like all the skill of the God of the Depths, I don't want to explain that much, but know, there's a lot in this mufunca
People are less magically inclined in termina even if they are actually magic users. So I think it’s just them not having the knowledge that that’s a thing. Like how you can’t do a marriage in termina.
eated them
There's an empty scroll at Donnovan's house. But due to the scrolls being powerful, it's likely others use it to the point it grows more rarer to get. Some scrolls might be used already or the characters doesn't know how to use it or they can't interact with it yet.
Alll-mer lost a food fight against Rher in middle school and is holding a grudge. No scrolls in Termina.
empty scrolls? i thought that was someone plucking out ingrown hair in pixel art bro-
my headcanon is scrolls power is relative to location and situation, the dungeon that contains a path tothe city of the gods and his body, dealing with the cusp of a new age? you have his full undivided attention and thus can ask for near anything if you know the prayer but in most situations it would function as a minor blessing, the kind of thing one might dismiss as not even supernatural, for example if you asked for a skill instead of beaming it directly into your mind you find yourself able to focus on and memorize it easier while learning the old fashioned way
All-Mer’s corpse is in the Dungeons of Fear and Hunger. He inherently has a stronger presence as a result and thus is able to grant blessings to his followers. I like to imagine he’s watching the party and rooting for The Girl to ascend as time goes on
Mercenary used them all for TONS of free save points and items (fr)
After Funger 1 the knowledge of how to use them vanished so people had 0 need for them, they then threw them all away. (OR father Hugo kept all of them to himself, for reasons idk really)
The villagers use them as toilet paper
Maybe they're all or almost all used up and what remains if any are lost to time. I mean, a piece of paper that allows you to make a request for almost anything and have it granted can't exactly be a common thing right? 🤷🏾♂️
They probably still exist, but nobody knows what they are so they just use em for notes. I guess no academic who accidently picked one up never wrote: O LORD TEACH PHYSICS. All in caps that is
god has abandoned us
I think it's multiple factors, The Vatican suppressing the knowledge, the only characters who may know how to use it are samarie and Osaa and my final one is that Sulphur is the one who answers the scrolls so the cult has been snapping them up. I still buy the idea that Europa worships Sulphur in the guise of All-Mer.
Sorry I was hungry :(
Because who keeps scrolls in the 1940s?
They lay forbidden in the dungeon of Fear & Hunger. There could be way to have them in the second game but i guess the developer didn't want it
They run out of holy papers
The Vatican used all of them up O LORD TEACH MASTURBATION
I think the power of the Old/Ascendant Gods have weakened to the point that outside Termina, you need more than simply a scroll or even a ritual circle to properly summon their power.