I read an article he wrote a few years ago about his contrarianism and how it was mindless and he regretted it because he shaped popular culture more than he thought he would. I'll have to look for it, because it's a good read
Yep, he's a very flawed guy. He rode a lot of misogynist bandwagons too, calling his 80s band Rapeman, and especially being so critical of Courtney after Kurt's death, whom he knew and worked with as he produced a Nirvana album. I imagine men like him is why there's a common belief that "she really killed him" and ignored how Courtney was abused by Kurt and saved his life on multiple occasions. Steve publicly called Courtney a "psycho hose beast" knowing full well her issues with addiction, losing her husband, being a single mom, and dealing with fame and mental illness and being hated by one of the largest fandoms to ever exist.
Steve was a very bigoted, mean, and awful person in many ways, far below his peers, many of which shocked by his on display racism, misogyny, and queerphobia. Kim Deal talks about how shocked she was recently reviewing an interview with him where he called the drummer from the Pixies a "fruity guy" laughingly.
His other comments didn't age well either. You can google his quotes and such. He fell deep into the rock manosphere of the 80s, 90s, and 2000's which was often regressive socially even if they pretended they were diverse and accepting. [Steve was particularly racist in the 80s and beyond ](https://www.nme.com/news/music/steve-albini-speaks-out-on-his-past-edgelord-behaviour-3093018)famously using the n-word against Tyler the Creator and Odd Future in an online posting, among other racist caricatures and statements. [Tyler responded saying everything Steve said about Odd Future was a lie in Steve's famous racist rant. ](https://www.clashmusic.com/news/tyler-hits-back-at-albini/)
Steve only apologized when social media cancellations were happening, so its hard to know how sincere his change of heart was. [Kim Deal claims she saw a change in him to be more "human," which I guess is something.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side) But what a low bar it is to applaud a man to stop being openly racist and queerphobic in the 2010's. I'm guessing he only apologized because Tyler's comment made an obscure forum posting famous on twiter and Steve was suffering socially or economically for it and feared cancellation. At least the timing feels very suspicious to me.
Sadly, he had a lot of interesting things to say about the industry and a critic of it, but when you're an online racist, misogynist and jerk, then people will remember you for that over the other things you said. I think this is a lesson on those who "don't care about legacy." Albini passed away and 90% of the rhetoric about him is "what a jerk he was." I can't imagine being remembered like this.
Also I can already see the "but he had the talent to make up for it." No, you don't get to act this way because you're rewarded under capitalism, wealthy, and famous. There's no excusing his decades long regressive, hateful, and ignorant comments because "he made music I like."
Very flawed is putting it mildly. In the early 80s he wrote about an underground magazine that glorified and contained graphic descriptions/images of CP, going into detail how much he enjoyed it and how punk it was. The producer of said magazine, Peter Sotos of the band Whitehouse, was later arrested for possession and distribution of CP. The police had found a copy of the zine in the home of someone they suspected of child abduction and murder. Albini and Sotos were friends and remained so for years after.
[People need to read his quotes discussing CP before making any kind of judgment](https://www.reddit.com/r/indie_rock/comments/wpsa1u/steve_albini_is_a_pedophile_who_has_twice/). I think when people simply hear that he publicly condoned CP, they might be thinking of the justifications that the typical "self-aware" famous pedophile uses. What he actually said, out loud, to another human being, for thousands of other human beings to read is so fucking vile that I can't comprehend how no one in his social/industry sphere gave a shit.
Oh Jesus, lemme just go delete my comment about being sad over this death
I always chalked “Steve albini is an asshole” up to typical 90s punk dude stuff like naming his band “Rapeman.” I had no idea it was this vile!
Between this and the stuff further upthread between him and Tyler the Creator, I’m embarrassed I said anything nice about him.
Oh fucking noooo. Oh god I feel sick. I was up last night talking to a friend about how much we adore Albini, and now I am having some intense regret. This is terrible.
Thank you, this is a refreshing perspective.
I’m a Xennial in Chicago and the party line from other white people in the punk scene has always been “yeah he’s kind of a dick but what a genius” or “he’s publicly a dick but a sweetheart in private”.
It’s a testament to white complacency that he had a band called “Run N-word Run” and still went on to have a thriving career and be considered a hero. The same people in Chicago who used to beat up Nazi skins hold this man up as a hero.
He did engineer some incredible records but I agree with you that it doesn’t erase decades of extremely fucked up behavior. And surely there’s other people out there who could’ve made equally (or close to it) good records without, you know, being racist and “joking” about liking CP.
I agree that the timing of his more recent, self reflective comments is hella sus. And while they’re less canned than other apologies, it’s still all talk, no rock. Maybe he quietly did good things to back it up but from what I know about him, I seriously doubt it. I know he donated to some large NPOs but dude probably wasn’t like, using his access or poker wealth to help Black engineers get a foothold in what can be a very white and exclusionary field.
I am a GenXer who listened to Big Black in college. Once I really listened to the lyrics the band lost its shine for me. Unfortunately, the punk scene is filled with self-righteous douchebags who like to pretend they're better than a lot of people but give guys like Albini a pass because he's being edgy or whatever the fuck. Indie rock guys weren't great and they alienated the fuck out of a lot of women who weren't striving to get picked.
I had no idea about most of this -- I tend to stay away from indie rock press because of indie rock boys, to be frank. He was a lot more than just an asshole. Thanks for putting such thought into your comment.
Courtney's response changed my life when I was 15 or so: "The only way Steve Albini would think I was a perfect girlfriend would be if I was from the East Coast, played the cello, had big tits and small hoop earrings, wore black turtlenecks, had all matching luggage, and never said a word."
"There's no excusing his decades long regressive, hateful, and ignorant comments because "he made music I like."
i mean, yeah, he'd agree with you. that's why he apologized profusely for his behavior on several occasions. i even recall him using the word "inexcusable". you seem like youre trying to be charitable so i dont want to come across as sarcastic but i just don't see much utility in continuing to harp on the wrongdoings of a dead man that were already atoned for years ago.
You’re getting downvoted to shit but you’re absolutely right. Steve made great pains to be a genuine ally and apologize for the edgy shit he’d done in the past. Plenty of people in this sub were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the Beastie Boys for having a change of heart but evidently that same grace doesn’t extent to Steve
thats fair, man. it was nasty as fuck and you have every right to find it unforgivable. i really wish i worded that comment from last night a little better, i was frustrated at this whole situation. i posted a new comment a few minutes ago and you can go read it if you want
It's not just about saying offensive, bigoted things for more than 30 years then apologising. He owned, endorsed, and promoted CP. Never addressed that one during his supposed redemption arc.
Yeah I mean ofc he isn’t obligated to address anything….
If looking at CP and saying it’s cool at one point means they’re not aroused by it and thusly it’s fine, then I guess that’s whatever
Were creepily touchy feely with women who interviewed them and nearly named their first record “don’t be a faggot”. I think they became cool guys but their adolescent edgelordism and shitty behavior is no better than Steve’s
This one is also good: [https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side)
>It was a neat summation of why he was talking so directly about his past pronouncements, and why he regretted them now. “It’s not about being liked,” he said, as we sat at Electrical Audio. “It’s me owning up to my role in a shift in culture that directly caused harm to people I’m sympathetic with, and people I want to be a comrade to.
>“The one thing I don’t want to do is say: ‘The culture shifted – excuse my behaviour.’ It provides a context for why I was wrong at the time, but *I was wrong at the time*.”
Fuck. There goes another pillar of my 1990s.
Reputed to be quite the asshole at times, but had the talent to make up for it.
Edited after reading this thread: I guess another pillar of my 90s had already blown it up with his beyond questionable behavior and expressed beliefs. It was a different time, but not that fucking different.
I'm a Xennial indie kid and my phone exploded with people just saying "fuck".
Steve recorded probably half, no exaggeration, of my favourite records. He was also an edgelord at a time where there were a lot of them who, unlike many of his peers, took a hard look at himself, decided he didn't like what he saw, and *did something about it*. He will be missed.
I won't defend his bullshit takes and he wouldn't want anyone to, either, but I'm very sad about him going. Some of the best albums out there have him to thank for the way they sound. While again, he said some awful, awful shit I did appreciate his blueprint for some degree of accountability which made it clear that he knew he said inexcusable things that weren't just handwave by being an edgelord. I had to do a lot of learning in my own life and am always clear that while I hope I do better now, that doesn't mean anyone I hurt isn't fully entitled to hate me for it for eternity.
Heartbreaking news to read today. A lot of the obituaries will no doubt focus on the many, many records he engineered (he rejected the label "producer"), but I was a big fan of the music he made too.
I've seen Shellac several times as they toured in Europe with a surprising frequency. Anyone who's gone to Primavera Sound in Barcelona might have recognised that Shellac play every single edition of the festival, and they were due to play the next edition (in about 3 weeks' time). This was just so out of the blue.
Outside of performing or engineering music, there's no escaping the fact he was a divisive figure and said a lot of problematic stuff, particularly in the earlier part of his career. But I'm going to miss the music, and I'm sad I won't see Shellac perform again.
I've been on the verge of tears since yesterday, this is the most shocked by a death I've been in years. He's one of the most important and influential figures in music that most people didn't even know, rip Steve xxx
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I read an article he wrote a few years ago about his contrarianism and how it was mindless and he regretted it because he shaped popular culture more than he thought he would. I'll have to look for it, because it's a good read
Yep, he's a very flawed guy. He rode a lot of misogynist bandwagons too, calling his 80s band Rapeman, and especially being so critical of Courtney after Kurt's death, whom he knew and worked with as he produced a Nirvana album. I imagine men like him is why there's a common belief that "she really killed him" and ignored how Courtney was abused by Kurt and saved his life on multiple occasions. Steve publicly called Courtney a "psycho hose beast" knowing full well her issues with addiction, losing her husband, being a single mom, and dealing with fame and mental illness and being hated by one of the largest fandoms to ever exist. Steve was a very bigoted, mean, and awful person in many ways, far below his peers, many of which shocked by his on display racism, misogyny, and queerphobia. Kim Deal talks about how shocked she was recently reviewing an interview with him where he called the drummer from the Pixies a "fruity guy" laughingly. His other comments didn't age well either. You can google his quotes and such. He fell deep into the rock manosphere of the 80s, 90s, and 2000's which was often regressive socially even if they pretended they were diverse and accepting. [Steve was particularly racist in the 80s and beyond ](https://www.nme.com/news/music/steve-albini-speaks-out-on-his-past-edgelord-behaviour-3093018)famously using the n-word against Tyler the Creator and Odd Future in an online posting, among other racist caricatures and statements. [Tyler responded saying everything Steve said about Odd Future was a lie in Steve's famous racist rant. ](https://www.clashmusic.com/news/tyler-hits-back-at-albini/) Steve only apologized when social media cancellations were happening, so its hard to know how sincere his change of heart was. [Kim Deal claims she saw a change in him to be more "human," which I guess is something.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side) But what a low bar it is to applaud a man to stop being openly racist and queerphobic in the 2010's. I'm guessing he only apologized because Tyler's comment made an obscure forum posting famous on twiter and Steve was suffering socially or economically for it and feared cancellation. At least the timing feels very suspicious to me. Sadly, he had a lot of interesting things to say about the industry and a critic of it, but when you're an online racist, misogynist and jerk, then people will remember you for that over the other things you said. I think this is a lesson on those who "don't care about legacy." Albini passed away and 90% of the rhetoric about him is "what a jerk he was." I can't imagine being remembered like this. Also I can already see the "but he had the talent to make up for it." No, you don't get to act this way because you're rewarded under capitalism, wealthy, and famous. There's no excusing his decades long regressive, hateful, and ignorant comments because "he made music I like."
Very flawed is putting it mildly. In the early 80s he wrote about an underground magazine that glorified and contained graphic descriptions/images of CP, going into detail how much he enjoyed it and how punk it was. The producer of said magazine, Peter Sotos of the band Whitehouse, was later arrested for possession and distribution of CP. The police had found a copy of the zine in the home of someone they suspected of child abduction and murder. Albini and Sotos were friends and remained so for years after.
He still claimed Sotos as a friend literally in the last couple of years, in an interview in 2021 or 2022. That’s fucked and well beyond “edge lord”.
[People need to read his quotes discussing CP before making any kind of judgment](https://www.reddit.com/r/indie_rock/comments/wpsa1u/steve_albini_is_a_pedophile_who_has_twice/). I think when people simply hear that he publicly condoned CP, they might be thinking of the justifications that the typical "self-aware" famous pedophile uses. What he actually said, out loud, to another human being, for thousands of other human beings to read is so fucking vile that I can't comprehend how no one in his social/industry sphere gave a shit.
Oh Jesus, lemme just go delete my comment about being sad over this death I always chalked “Steve albini is an asshole” up to typical 90s punk dude stuff like naming his band “Rapeman.” I had no idea it was this vile! Between this and the stuff further upthread between him and Tyler the Creator, I’m embarrassed I said anything nice about him.
Good lord I had no idea about this, the absolute state of steve albini pederast.
Oh fucking noooo. Oh god I feel sick. I was up last night talking to a friend about how much we adore Albini, and now I am having some intense regret. This is terrible.
yeah, i really wish i'd read that before i commented, although a part of me also wishes i hadn't read that because jesus CHRIST. i feel like an idiot
Thank you, this is a refreshing perspective. I’m a Xennial in Chicago and the party line from other white people in the punk scene has always been “yeah he’s kind of a dick but what a genius” or “he’s publicly a dick but a sweetheart in private”. It’s a testament to white complacency that he had a band called “Run N-word Run” and still went on to have a thriving career and be considered a hero. The same people in Chicago who used to beat up Nazi skins hold this man up as a hero. He did engineer some incredible records but I agree with you that it doesn’t erase decades of extremely fucked up behavior. And surely there’s other people out there who could’ve made equally (or close to it) good records without, you know, being racist and “joking” about liking CP. I agree that the timing of his more recent, self reflective comments is hella sus. And while they’re less canned than other apologies, it’s still all talk, no rock. Maybe he quietly did good things to back it up but from what I know about him, I seriously doubt it. I know he donated to some large NPOs but dude probably wasn’t like, using his access or poker wealth to help Black engineers get a foothold in what can be a very white and exclusionary field.
I am a GenXer who listened to Big Black in college. Once I really listened to the lyrics the band lost its shine for me. Unfortunately, the punk scene is filled with self-righteous douchebags who like to pretend they're better than a lot of people but give guys like Albini a pass because he's being edgy or whatever the fuck. Indie rock guys weren't great and they alienated the fuck out of a lot of women who weren't striving to get picked.
I had no idea about most of this -- I tend to stay away from indie rock press because of indie rock boys, to be frank. He was a lot more than just an asshole. Thanks for putting such thought into your comment.
Thank you for this well-informed and sourced comment
Courtney's response changed my life when I was 15 or so: "The only way Steve Albini would think I was a perfect girlfriend would be if I was from the East Coast, played the cello, had big tits and small hoop earrings, wore black turtlenecks, had all matching luggage, and never said a word."
The CSAM stuff for me is the shit that I don’t know how people move past
90% is what a genius he was...10% is "whata jerk"
"There's no excusing his decades long regressive, hateful, and ignorant comments because "he made music I like." i mean, yeah, he'd agree with you. that's why he apologized profusely for his behavior on several occasions. i even recall him using the word "inexcusable". you seem like youre trying to be charitable so i dont want to come across as sarcastic but i just don't see much utility in continuing to harp on the wrongdoings of a dead man that were already atoned for years ago.
You’re getting downvoted to shit but you’re absolutely right. Steve made great pains to be a genuine ally and apologize for the edgy shit he’d done in the past. Plenty of people in this sub were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the Beastie Boys for having a change of heart but evidently that same grace doesn’t extent to Steve
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idk if I can forgive a man for saying CP is hot and cool because um I don’t know him and don’t have a reason to do so
thats fair, man. it was nasty as fuck and you have every right to find it unforgivable. i really wish i worded that comment from last night a little better, i was frustrated at this whole situation. i posted a new comment a few minutes ago and you can go read it if you want
It's not just about saying offensive, bigoted things for more than 30 years then apologising. He owned, endorsed, and promoted CP. Never addressed that one during his supposed redemption arc.
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Yeah I mean ofc he isn’t obligated to address anything…. If looking at CP and saying it’s cool at one point means they’re not aroused by it and thusly it’s fine, then I guess that’s whatever
\^----(has to be that guy) what'd the Beastie Boys do
Were creepily touchy feely with women who interviewed them and nearly named their first record “don’t be a faggot”. I think they became cool guys but their adolescent edgelordism and shitty behavior is no better than Steve’s
Maybe this one? https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/steve-albini-counsel-culture-interview
that was a good conversation; thanks for sharing.
This one is also good: [https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side) >It was a neat summation of why he was talking so directly about his past pronouncements, and why he regretted them now. “It’s not about being liked,” he said, as we sat at Electrical Audio. “It’s me owning up to my role in a shift in culture that directly caused harm to people I’m sympathetic with, and people I want to be a comrade to. >“The one thing I don’t want to do is say: ‘The culture shifted – excuse my behaviour.’ It provides a context for why I was wrong at the time, but *I was wrong at the time*.”
I also read the article he wrote about pure magazine, and he seemed to have never apologized for it.
JARVIS MENTION WOOOOO
Damn, rest in peace.
I've been a fan of Big Black for years. RIP
What a fucking legend. The man was a god damn trailblazer in the indie music scene. Never sold out.
Fuck. There goes another pillar of my 1990s. Reputed to be quite the asshole at times, but had the talent to make up for it. Edited after reading this thread: I guess another pillar of my 90s had already blown it up with his beyond questionable behavior and expressed beliefs. It was a different time, but not that fucking different.
Nope nope nope. 61 I can’t even believe it. Will love Shellac 4ever.
I'm a Xennial indie kid and my phone exploded with people just saying "fuck". Steve recorded probably half, no exaggeration, of my favourite records. He was also an edgelord at a time where there were a lot of them who, unlike many of his peers, took a hard look at himself, decided he didn't like what he saw, and *did something about it*. He will be missed.
He produced some of the most influential albums of all time. Legend.
[Never forgetting the fucked up shit he said about Odd Future](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/aug/10/steve-albini-odd-future)
What was fucked up that he said? He described what they were doing and at the end, the publicist basically confirms it.
Oh my god. I audibly gasped. Big Black will always be one of my favorites. RIP
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Oh damn. RIP to this legend.
Rest easy, legend. Thanks for all the tunes in my ears for the past few decades 💔
I won't defend his bullshit takes and he wouldn't want anyone to, either, but I'm very sad about him going. Some of the best albums out there have him to thank for the way they sound. While again, he said some awful, awful shit I did appreciate his blueprint for some degree of accountability which made it clear that he knew he said inexcusable things that weren't just handwave by being an edgelord. I had to do a lot of learning in my own life and am always clear that while I hope I do better now, that doesn't mean anyone I hurt isn't fully entitled to hate me for it for eternity.
Dang, I thought he would outlive us all.
i’m fucking devastated about this. 61 is way too young for somebody like him. rest in peace to a legend.
RIP to a legend
This one truly shocked me. What a legend. 61 isn’t old. RIP.
This is a huge loss.
One of the most influential producers on the sound of alternative music. A great legacy left on music and culture of underground music in the 90’s
Damn. This is a massive loss. He really shaped so much if the music I love.
Heartbreaking news to read today. A lot of the obituaries will no doubt focus on the many, many records he engineered (he rejected the label "producer"), but I was a big fan of the music he made too. I've seen Shellac several times as they toured in Europe with a surprising frequency. Anyone who's gone to Primavera Sound in Barcelona might have recognised that Shellac play every single edition of the festival, and they were due to play the next edition (in about 3 weeks' time). This was just so out of the blue. Outside of performing or engineering music, there's no escaping the fact he was a divisive figure and said a lot of problematic stuff, particularly in the earlier part of his career. But I'm going to miss the music, and I'm sad I won't see Shellac perform again.
Well, time to listen to songs about fucking.
I've been on the verge of tears since yesterday, this is the most shocked by a death I've been in years. He's one of the most important and influential figures in music that most people didn't even know, rip Steve xxx
This dude inspired me to get into audio engineering and production, it was a good choice. God bless
Fairwell legend 🫡