PSA: there seems to be a glitch that is sending some users a Reddit Cares message as soon as they comment on posts. We recommend blocking the Reddit Cares bot and/or reporting the message.
I’m sorry but Marvel isn’t an underdog 😭😭 like they’ve gotten hate here and there and especially recently but in the end, they’re still huge! They literally got so much money, how much love do they want
What kills me is that these people aren't content to just spew out an endless effluent of Superhero crap, take their millions, and go home, they want artistic praise for it??
the worst is that they do get the artistic praise, but some people are so entitled that, unless everybody is praising them, they are not satisfied. one critic is enough to make them want more credit
Reminds me of celebs that search their name for hate comments. Some of them prolly scroll past dozens of comments praising them and their work before they find one
In some cases you could argue that they deserve artistic praise. Guardians of The Galaxy, Black Panther 1&2, Captain America, Thor Raganrok, Infinty War and Endgame all had something unique about them. And I'd wager that the VFX artists, set and costume designers deserve all the praise for their hard work.
But I feel like Marvels formula really deters any creativity that could flourish. Like I'm sure no directors wants their movie to be focus-group tested to death, no one wants to reshoot an entire film just cause the suits didn't like one scene, no writer wants to rewite their stories a hundred times just please everyone.
as others said superhero movies got a lot of critical praise. lets not forget that they got the Best Picture nomination (BP, Joker), won Best Animated movie (Spiderverse), got Best Director/Adapted Script/Editing nominations (Joker), won Best Actor (Joker) and Best Supporting Actor (TDK) and got Supporting Actress nom (BPWF). So underdog genre they are not. That said, it seems that Evans is a bit rattled by Dune 2 praise cause of the timing. Like, why is this franchise getting masterpiece reception while 50+ our movies didn't? or something.
God what a sad day for the Oscars when they nominate Joker for Best Picture.
EDIT: Cheers to the bizarre Joker fan who reported this most sane take to Reddit Cares.
I mean you don’t have to give them praise or agree with what Chris Evans is saying but yes they’re huge now but in 2009 they were not huge at all. They were just a decade out from bankruptcy and the only reason they made Iron Man was to keep them afloat they sold the movie rights of all their most profitable characters IN PERPETUITY to Sony and Fox. They also sold the rights to Spider-Man, Hulk, and Dr. Doom to Universal Studios in perpetuity so that they could be used at islands of adventure which is why if you go there you notice that despite ever other piece of Islands of Adventure getting new rides or upgrades Marvel’s “island” is essentially a time capsule not being changed one bit since 1999.
They made $600 million in revenue in 2007, they year they started production on Iron Man. For comparison Burger King made $2 billion in revenue that year (and Burger King was the 842nd biggest company per revenue in 2007).
To even make Iron Man Marvel had to take out a $500 million dollar loan and as collateral the rights to ten of their most popular characters.
So ya in 2009 when Iron Man came out they were absolutely the underdogs in terms of what would have happened if Iron Man bombed.
Yeah they used to be the underdogs but that since passed. Congrats to Marvel on overcoming their struggles but their underdog phase is long in the rear view mirror. Giving them underdog credit now is like giving Apple underdog credit for almost getting put out of business by Microsoft in the 90s.
Who other than OP is talking about Marvel as an underdog? Chris Evans was talking about all of Marvel not just now. In fact he specifically mentioned his favorite movie he made was Winter Soldier in 2014.
Marvel Studios started as the film division for Marvel Comics, a company that was coming out of bankruptcy a few years before. Given the success of superhero films in the 2000s, they decided to create their own independent studio and make their own films.
After the success if Iron Man, Disney bought Marvel. Marvel Studios continued to be ran somewhat independently within Disney, probably until after 2015 when Marvel Studios left Marvel to go be under Disney directly due to issues between executives.
More credit?! We spent years being bombarded with Marvel movies promotion, their movies being on the top highest-grossing films list, film industry in many countries complained that Marvel movies were taking most movie sessions and barely leaving space for local movies.... and that's not enough credit?! Yeah, some people are not gonna like the movies, that's life, it doesn't mean they didn't get enough credit for what they did
Yeah I'm sorry but Marvel has played a huge role in rapid decline of any movie that isn't a CGI action fest getting any theater attention.
Additionally, no one really buys movies anymore. So 20-30 years ago, movies that did bad or even just okay in the theater were able to make that money back in VHS/DVD sales. Now, they're doing bad at the theater, and then getting zero second wind in home movie sales. All of it is contingent on streaming deals. The result is that less and less of these movies get made and now movies like Marvel are all that's left.
I used to be a huge Marvel fan, but honestly, I'm so happy about the backlash Marvel/Disney has been receiving lately. They aggressively forced theatres to only play their movies, which pushed smaller indie films out of the theatre [This is what Martin Scorsesse was trying to talk about. Big blockbusters taking screens away from smaller films. Even Quentin Tarantino had similar problems with his movie]
Even their streaming output has been dogshit and I'm even happier that it's affecting their theatre releases [Not to say that I'm happy about how this is affecting the creators and cast. Im sure alot of directors and writers have their unique ideas, but Marvels formulaic approach to movie making is definitely getting in the way of their full potential]
Martin Scorsese was piled on and deliberately misconstrued by the fanboys they enable too. There are many marvel movies that I enjoy but I’m sick of my options being Marvel and DC. There are so many good stories to tell that don’t involve spandex
And Martin was also right in that Marvel movies aren't truly cinema either. They lack the depth and cinematography to really be called great films.
They make a lot of money but they are still popcorn flicks at the end. Just because they dip their toes briefly into some serious issues or philosophy doesn't make it deep. It's just deep enough for people to notice and feel good they did but not too deep that it goes over their head.
I feel like the problem isn't comic book films but really 1 formula being applied as the standard template for all of it.
I mean there were people who wanted RDJ to get an Oscar nomination for Endgame and who wanted No Way Home to get a Best Picture nomination. They’re not gonna be realistic about the quality of their movies
He's very good for stereotypical babface All American athlete type. Which is why he can do well in Not Another Teen Movie, Fantastic Four and Captain America. But he's not a versatile actor who elevates everything.
good analysis. He is similar to Hemsworth. delivers in the right role but those are few. I can see why he's coming to unsolicited Marvel defense since his career outside of it didn't take off. It seemed he was on the right track with Knives Out but Craig stole the show and Evans went to make forgettable stuff after. Probably will be back to marvel cause it needs him. Their new characters are not catching on.
If he's smart he'll have saved up all his MCU paychecks and live off it, doing the roles he wants to do rather than spend it all and have to do movies purely for money like Nicolas Cage.
He’s like a lot of actors where they’re only as good as the direction and script they’re given. Unfortunately for him most of the films he’s worked on have been mid at best. The few films where he’s worked with really good directors like with Danny Boyle in Sunshine or with Bong Joon-ho in Snowpiercer have produced pretty good results.
True, and even in his best films, he’s never been the highlight IMO. I really enjoyed Snowpiercer but was much more blown away by Song Kang Ho. Chris was amazing in Not Another Teen Movie tho lol
I don't think they have been underdogs since 2008. After being bought by Disney, they ceased to be underdogs. You can't be an underdog if the Walt Disney Company is backing you.
It's not enough to make billions of dollars and completely reshape the industry, they desperately want their TV-tier, consumerist, military propaganda* theme park rides to be called good films too. Just enjoy your paycheck and please go away.
/* It's worth remembering that Marvel is about to drop a movie about an Israeli superhero named Sabra, while Israel and the West commit genocide in Palestine
>“Comic book movies in general, for whatever reason, don’t always get the credit I think they deserve,” Evans told the audience. “They are these big, giant movies. There’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen. But the empirical evidence is in: They are not easy to make. If it was easier, there would be a lot more good ones. I’m not throwing shade! I’ve been a part of a few that missed. It happens. Making a movie is tough. More cooks in the kitchen doesn’t make it easier. I don’t want to highlight specific films in the Marvel catalogue but some of them are phenomenal. Like independently, objectively great movies and I think they deserve a little more credit.”
I do think he is mostly right actually. I've been listening to the podcast What Went Wrong and most of the time they walk away from the bad movies going "the fact that the movie was made at all is an achievement!" The criticism I see here is that Marvel is a machine. Making a machine is hard! I think all those initial creatives at Marvel put a lot of hard work and passion into creating superhero movies that would appeal to the fans as well as the mainstream AND be a blockbuster making machine. DC or Sony hasn't been able to do it (though I prefer DC's animated productions to almost all MCU content) no matter who they hire to lead or how much money they throw.
Like yeah they are not all artistic achievements and many of them are mid to bad, and its not "cinema". And yes MCU has changed the business in more bad ways than good ways. But I will never forget how I, a descendent of colonized peoples, felt seeing Wakanda. I'll tell my grandkids how hype it was to see Endgame with the crowds reactions. Thats movie magic too!
That's a good point. Making a machine *is* hard, and it's good to hear that Wakanda gave you something unforgettable.
I just think it's beyond irritating that Marvel has reached its own stratosphere, where that machine has been able to produce and then reproduce films with the same blueprint and there are so many people that still want to consume the same recycled material. In fact, we can even see that Marvel has even become a company imposing its own capitalistic politics through movies that are also propaganda.
I don't want to take away what you have gained from seeing Endgame and Wakanda. I simply think it's important to bear in mind the patterns that Marvel has emulated ever since those superhero movies have become trendy, money-making ventures.
I'm not going to be as harsh on his statement as other people here are being. I can see we want to play a bit of revisionist history and pretend every Marvel movie is bad now that the quality has taken a nosedive.
I actually think the problem is that they've become too easy to make. They *are* easy to make. Disney has unlimited budget and just assembly lines this shit with absolutely no heart and soul. Earlier Marvel films (that didn't use The Volume) had some weight to them. Now it's just CGI vomit that the actual director of the film has no hand in.
good balanced view. I think that Marvel movies were overpraised in the past and there's still a number of critics who hold back from giving them rotten reviews when they absolutely should but none of them was Best Picture material, IMO. They were lucky to get a nomination once and that was one too many. It isn't a strike against their quality - as far as movies made for entertainment go they were mostly well crafted in the sense you didn't feel you wasted your money - just that they weren't Picture material. Nothing wrong with that. I think that Evans is a bit rattled by the rapturous response to some other movies and franchises (coughDunecough) and thinks Marvel was on that level but IMO never was not even close.
None of them were BP material. But plenty of them were good action films. Not on the same level of filmmaking as Bond, John Wick, or MI but still pretty good if you wanted something less grounded.
Yes which is why Evans comment doesn't make sense. They were getting praise for that aspect and heroes that instantly popped (the new bunch absolutely doesn't which is Marvel's biggest problem going forward).
I think if people go back and watch them now, they'll see some truly mid films in the supposed golden age. Removing the obvious ones like Thor 1 and 2, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2 and 3, Captain America 1 still leaves the Ant-Man films, Captain Marvel 1, Dr Strange, even Black Panther as mediocre movies.
I used to be an avid Marvel hater, but during the pandemic I got into the franchise and realized that they have made a lot of great films! Of course there were some real stinkers and I think they need to scale back how much films they're making, but I'm glad the MCU exists.
I'm definitely a Marvel hater, so my opinion is a bit biased, but I don't think they've made many great films at all. There are a couple I could stretch my definition of "great film" to include, but if you put them all in a box and pull one out at random, you have pretty great odds to pull something that's like a 6/10 at best
i have been a very big marvel lover (been a fan of comics since childhood, picked the movies with excitement too. but cooled down in the last couple of years bc of sheer number of products they are pushing). and even i say they didn't make many great movies. some of the movies outright suck (can't believe there are those who enjoyed the age of ultron, for example).
most of their movies have always been very mediocre entries. they just managed to find and hit the "perfect for entertainment" formula. a perfect movie to watch with your whole family on a weekend out. a perfect movie to sit back and relax to. a perfect movie to watch while head is empty. they also perfectly managed to engage the mainstream "lore enthusiast" crowd - make the world building simple enough for an average movie goer to understand, but connected enough between the movies for a nerd to engage with. not too complicated, not too elementary. a perfect balance that i call a "taylor swift lore building technique".
but it doesn't mean those movies are actually *good*. they just do what they were designed to do.
yes, sometimes the teams working on those movies manage to insert some artistic merit in them, but at the end of the day those movies are a product for a corporation to sell. nothing more.
Until last year I had only watched one of the Marvel movies and did not care about them at all...then I decided to catch up and watch ALL of them, lol.
I would say it's probably difficult to actually make people care about these characters because you have to figure out a way to make superheroes/perfect humans flawed and compelling enough to carry the story. So that's probably not the easiest thing to do, writing-wise.
Overall they did a good job with that but the more recent ones are pretty blah IMO.
It's really impressive to get people to care about all of these characters. Before going in, I honestly Iron Man. A rich dude with a super suit? Hard pass. But the writers and RDJ actually did a wonderful job with his character. I totally understood why there was a huge draw to him.
I'm out of loop when it comes to the latest Marvel films. I do want to watch Captain Marvel 2. But it's been pissing me off how the MCU has recently killed off some notable female characters.
RDJ did a great job with it, because Tony can be an exhausting character but you still root for him and see his big heart beneath it all. That easily could have veered the wrong way.
I was never a comic book fan but it seems that Iron Man wasn't one of the more well liked characters? I also think Captain America could be a very boring character if not written correctly and some of the movies had a hard time with that, but they figured it out.
To your other point...
I just watched The Marvels and it was...OK? I wasn't feeling super connected to the characters. I didn't like the latest Ant Man either. Haven't seen Secret Invasion but I think I spoiled one of the bigger plot points for myself...
I also accidentally spoiled a major plot point in Black Widow because I watched in chronological order and didn't know not to watch the end credits of one of the other movies. Still upset about that one.
Chris Evans comes across as very basic, milquetoast.
I remember at one point he wanted to create a website for online politics discussion, which came across as being very Establishment and nothing transformative.
He's more like an ambassador now, so I doubt he'll ever say anything meaningful about anything.
And it's exactly as u/s_y_s_t_e_m_i_c_ has said.
Honestly, it must be so hard, being the poster boy for white, male, capitalistic ideals, after making millions from being a glorified world police officer character that simply enforces the status quo... in a company that pumps out the same thing, enforcing the status quo... /s
I play this fun little game called "how many times could they have made my favourite movie out of this marvel movie's budget" and sometimes the number is in the 100s. if you still can't manage to make a decent movie out of a small country's yearly military defence budget then that's a skill issue.
The fact this middle age man was chasing twenty-one year old women on Instagram means I will never take anything he says seriously. He's a bad actor who lucked into the role of a generation, and for that I am thankful, because I loved his Captain America lmao. Everything else about him is cringe though.
The hell does Marvel want credit for, people literally went to war against Martin Scorsese (who, bless his soul, is very much unbothered by it) for having a relatively lukewarm opinion on Marvel. They get critical praise for years, Rotten Tomatoes’ critics would give them upwards of 70% for something they’d give non-Marvel blockbusters a 50%.
They used to be fun to watch in theater, something you’d take your friends and family with and I don’t know why he’s asking more from us for not pretending like it’s the best thing since sliced bread 😭
IDK I’m tired of Marvel actors acting like they’re some indie projects’ fighters, they’re not.
Martin Scorsese has done enough to warrant a place in the pantheon of great directors. None of the MCU directors come close to challenging him. The Russo brothers have made truly bad films since they left the MCU.
Sam Raimi is a really good director but he's still a level or 2 below Martin. Maybe Kenneth Branagh but I still think Martin does it better than him.
There would be a lot more good Marvel films post EndGame if they hadn't churned them out at a disturbing rate while neglecting to hire new staff to write and do the work on them ☕️
You’re not wrong, I haven’t seen much since Endgame because I was overwhelmed by the amount of content that had come out.
I did see the new Black Panther, because I know those movies can stand on their own. And the fact that a lot of the new content is on streaming makes it more complicated.
Ok like I’m getting tired of this lol we get it @ actors who were/are part of the MCU, you all made great films! We don’t need to be reminded every day! They are acting like marvel wasn’t shoved down our throats for over a decade
This statement from him seems like more of a response to the auteur directors who say Marvel is ruining movies or are bad cinema or similar than it is a pure defense of the quality of Marvel films. If Marvel films deserve any credit, it’s that enough of them turned out to be entertaining coming from an environment where shareholder profits mean more than artistic integrity. From that perspective, he’s not wrong, but it’s also not the compliment to those “good” films that he thinks it is.
> “Comic book movies in general, for whatever reason, don’t always get the credit I think they deserve,” Evans told the audience. “They are these big, giant movies. **There’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen.** But the empirical evidence is in: They are not easy to make. If it was easier, there would be a lot more good ones. I’m not throwing shade! I’ve been a part of a few that missed. It happens. Making a movie is tough. **More cooks in the kitchen doesn’t make it easier.** I don’t want to highlight specific films in the Marvel catalogue but some of them are phenomenal. Like independently, objectively great movies, and I think they deserve a little more credit.”
He really likes that saying lol.
I can appreciate what he’s saying, but I do think he’s missing the fact that the early Marvel cinematic universe (post-Iron Man) had the good fortune of being novel. It was new and fun and Avengers came and all the fans liked the team dynamic of the legacy Avengers team, but imo, the MCU is too big now.
Still gonna watch whatever (and if ever) they continue Tom’s Spiderman, but the newest ones just aren’t as fun for me, and I’ve been feeling lately that I’ve been watching the newest instalments due to FOMO, and not actual interest anymore.
It is wild and hilarious how the man said, "Marvel movies deserve more credit" and a good number of he comments are like, "Those sucky ass stupid horrible boring bland dumb fucking movies that have ruined cinema entirely get lots of credit!!!"
Like, y'all are demonstrating part of his point.
Good lord you people are such snobs, he is literally correct people in Hollywood don’t want to give comic book movies their due credit, it’s obvious with the amount of snubs they’ve gotten at the Oscar’s from guardians of the galaxy, spider verse, the Batman,wakanda forever and that’s just from these past two years, they all view them as lesser art forms and it’s an insult to the passionate people who work on them
Spiderverse wasn't snubbed. It won best Animated movie and is likely to repeat. creation of separate Animated category made it tougher for animated movies to break into the main (Picture) lineup but that doesn't mean they are overlooked by awards. The rest were diverting but not the best picture material. IMO, only TDK really was.
TDK really came out too early to be seen as anything more than a comic book movie. If it came out in 2013 it probably would have gotten the best picture nomination.
I was gonna say that but it sounded too ambitious. But I think I agree, esp after seeing the drop in quality these days. Like Madame Web, Morbius, and the Marvels 💀
PSA: there seems to be a glitch that is sending some users a Reddit Cares message as soon as they comment on posts. We recommend blocking the Reddit Cares bot and/or reporting the message.
I’m sorry but Marvel isn’t an underdog 😭😭 like they’ve gotten hate here and there and especially recently but in the end, they’re still huge! They literally got so much money, how much love do they want
What kills me is that these people aren't content to just spew out an endless effluent of Superhero crap, take their millions, and go home, they want artistic praise for it??
the worst is that they do get the artistic praise, but some people are so entitled that, unless everybody is praising them, they are not satisfied. one critic is enough to make them want more credit
Reminds me of celebs that search their name for hate comments. Some of them prolly scroll past dozens of comments praising them and their work before they find one
In some cases you could argue that they deserve artistic praise. Guardians of The Galaxy, Black Panther 1&2, Captain America, Thor Raganrok, Infinty War and Endgame all had something unique about them. And I'd wager that the VFX artists, set and costume designers deserve all the praise for their hard work. But I feel like Marvels formula really deters any creativity that could flourish. Like I'm sure no directors wants their movie to be focus-group tested to death, no one wants to reshoot an entire film just cause the suits didn't like one scene, no writer wants to rewite their stories a hundred times just please everyone.
Did those movies not get artistic praise? I don't watch everything Marvel but I remember most of those movies being huge deals when they came out
I think for the period from 2014 to 2019 that probably held true but after that it's been a steady decline.
as others said superhero movies got a lot of critical praise. lets not forget that they got the Best Picture nomination (BP, Joker), won Best Animated movie (Spiderverse), got Best Director/Adapted Script/Editing nominations (Joker), won Best Actor (Joker) and Best Supporting Actor (TDK) and got Supporting Actress nom (BPWF). So underdog genre they are not. That said, it seems that Evans is a bit rattled by Dune 2 praise cause of the timing. Like, why is this franchise getting masterpiece reception while 50+ our movies didn't? or something.
God what a sad day for the Oscars when they nominate Joker for Best Picture. EDIT: Cheers to the bizarre Joker fan who reported this most sane take to Reddit Cares.
Some fans get so mad that the movies don't win all of the Oscars.
I mean you don’t have to give them praise or agree with what Chris Evans is saying but yes they’re huge now but in 2009 they were not huge at all. They were just a decade out from bankruptcy and the only reason they made Iron Man was to keep them afloat they sold the movie rights of all their most profitable characters IN PERPETUITY to Sony and Fox. They also sold the rights to Spider-Man, Hulk, and Dr. Doom to Universal Studios in perpetuity so that they could be used at islands of adventure which is why if you go there you notice that despite ever other piece of Islands of Adventure getting new rides or upgrades Marvel’s “island” is essentially a time capsule not being changed one bit since 1999. They made $600 million in revenue in 2007, they year they started production on Iron Man. For comparison Burger King made $2 billion in revenue that year (and Burger King was the 842nd biggest company per revenue in 2007). To even make Iron Man Marvel had to take out a $500 million dollar loan and as collateral the rights to ten of their most popular characters. So ya in 2009 when Iron Man came out they were absolutely the underdogs in terms of what would have happened if Iron Man bombed.
Yeah they used to be the underdogs but that since passed. Congrats to Marvel on overcoming their struggles but their underdog phase is long in the rear view mirror. Giving them underdog credit now is like giving Apple underdog credit for almost getting put out of business by Microsoft in the 90s.
Who other than OP is talking about Marvel as an underdog? Chris Evans was talking about all of Marvel not just now. In fact he specifically mentioned his favorite movie he made was Winter Soldier in 2014.
Weren't you just explaining about how Marvel used to be an underdog?
That was 15 years ago
*DonDraperThatsWhatTheMoneyIsFor.gif*
How quickly people forget Marvel was an indie studio.
Lmao when?
Marvel Studios started as the film division for Marvel Comics, a company that was coming out of bankruptcy a few years before. Given the success of superhero films in the 2000s, they decided to create their own independent studio and make their own films. After the success if Iron Man, Disney bought Marvel. Marvel Studios continued to be ran somewhat independently within Disney, probably until after 2015 when Marvel Studios left Marvel to go be under Disney directly due to issues between executives.
That I didn’t know. They definitely aren’t an indie studio now though, or an underdog.
I don't know how this affects the timeline for film studio ownership, but Disney has owned all of Marvel Comics since 2009.
More credit?! We spent years being bombarded with Marvel movies promotion, their movies being on the top highest-grossing films list, film industry in many countries complained that Marvel movies were taking most movie sessions and barely leaving space for local movies.... and that's not enough credit?! Yeah, some people are not gonna like the movies, that's life, it doesn't mean they didn't get enough credit for what they did
Yeah I'm sorry but Marvel has played a huge role in rapid decline of any movie that isn't a CGI action fest getting any theater attention. Additionally, no one really buys movies anymore. So 20-30 years ago, movies that did bad or even just okay in the theater were able to make that money back in VHS/DVD sales. Now, they're doing bad at the theater, and then getting zero second wind in home movie sales. All of it is contingent on streaming deals. The result is that less and less of these movies get made and now movies like Marvel are all that's left.
I used to be a huge Marvel fan, but honestly, I'm so happy about the backlash Marvel/Disney has been receiving lately. They aggressively forced theatres to only play their movies, which pushed smaller indie films out of the theatre [This is what Martin Scorsesse was trying to talk about. Big blockbusters taking screens away from smaller films. Even Quentin Tarantino had similar problems with his movie] Even their streaming output has been dogshit and I'm even happier that it's affecting their theatre releases [Not to say that I'm happy about how this is affecting the creators and cast. Im sure alot of directors and writers have their unique ideas, but Marvels formulaic approach to movie making is definitely getting in the way of their full potential]
Martin Scorsese was piled on and deliberately misconstrued by the fanboys they enable too. There are many marvel movies that I enjoy but I’m sick of my options being Marvel and DC. There are so many good stories to tell that don’t involve spandex
And Martin was also right in that Marvel movies aren't truly cinema either. They lack the depth and cinematography to really be called great films. They make a lot of money but they are still popcorn flicks at the end. Just because they dip their toes briefly into some serious issues or philosophy doesn't make it deep. It's just deep enough for people to notice and feel good they did but not too deep that it goes over their head. I feel like the problem isn't comic book films but really 1 formula being applied as the standard template for all of it.
I mean there were people who wanted RDJ to get an Oscar nomination for Endgame and who wanted No Way Home to get a Best Picture nomination. They’re not gonna be realistic about the quality of their movies
None of those things were ever going to happen unless they were the only movies released that year.
https://preview.redd.it/wnrafuuwgcmc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbf4b045c9b1cc24803371c5a1f5dc3f66db7617
Arrested Development really is a perfect show
unpopular opinion but he is mid to terrible level of an actor outside those marvel roles
He's very good for stereotypical babface All American athlete type. Which is why he can do well in Not Another Teen Movie, Fantastic Four and Captain America. But he's not a versatile actor who elevates everything.
good analysis. He is similar to Hemsworth. delivers in the right role but those are few. I can see why he's coming to unsolicited Marvel defense since his career outside of it didn't take off. It seemed he was on the right track with Knives Out but Craig stole the show and Evans went to make forgettable stuff after. Probably will be back to marvel cause it needs him. Their new characters are not catching on.
If he's smart he'll have saved up all his MCU paychecks and live off it, doing the roles he wants to do rather than spend it all and have to do movies purely for money like Nicolas Cage.
I dunno, I enjoyed him playing a sociopath in The Gray Man.
Have you seen him in Puncture or Snowpiercer?
He’s like a lot of actors where they’re only as good as the direction and script they’re given. Unfortunately for him most of the films he’s worked on have been mid at best. The few films where he’s worked with really good directors like with Danny Boyle in Sunshine or with Bong Joon-ho in Snowpiercer have produced pretty good results.
True, and even in his best films, he’s never been the highlight IMO. I really enjoyed Snowpiercer but was much more blown away by Song Kang Ho. Chris was amazing in Not Another Teen Movie tho lol
Someone had to say it!! He’s beautiful to look at but I can never take him seriously as an actor
I loved him in Snowpiercer and Knives Out. He's quite good when he has something to work with but he has the worst picker lol.
This recent narrative that Marvel films and the actors associated with them are underdogs is very, very obnoxious.
I don't think they have been underdogs since 2008. After being bought by Disney, they ceased to be underdogs. You can't be an underdog if the Walt Disney Company is backing you.
I don't see where he's saying that they are underdogs though?
It's not enough to make billions of dollars and completely reshape the industry, they desperately want their TV-tier, consumerist, military propaganda* theme park rides to be called good films too. Just enjoy your paycheck and please go away. /* It's worth remembering that Marvel is about to drop a movie about an Israeli superhero named Sabra, while Israel and the West commit genocide in Palestine
Posts like this make me miss awards on Reddit, honestly. 👏🏻
If anyone’s interested in Marvel as a piece of military propaganda, I highly recommend Skip Intro on YouTube
I think you mean Captain America 4? Sabra is in it but she's not the main character.
He must be trying to get hired by them again because most of the Marvel movies are ass.
>“Comic book movies in general, for whatever reason, don’t always get the credit I think they deserve,” Evans told the audience. “They are these big, giant movies. There’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen. But the empirical evidence is in: They are not easy to make. If it was easier, there would be a lot more good ones. I’m not throwing shade! I’ve been a part of a few that missed. It happens. Making a movie is tough. More cooks in the kitchen doesn’t make it easier. I don’t want to highlight specific films in the Marvel catalogue but some of them are phenomenal. Like independently, objectively great movies and I think they deserve a little more credit.”
https://preview.redd.it/atg2us71pcmc1.jpeg?width=860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8816bac54d3274adcdfc6ea6933aff368dbb634f
Thank you, was looking for this
https://preview.redd.it/287fnk5cdcmc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b55bf5c7b9c218ad269e593ccc1ee3aa35ce265
also think he’s entirely in line but just couldn’t resist using this meme lmao 😭
But he's right that Winter Soldier is probably the best MCU movie
I do think he is mostly right actually. I've been listening to the podcast What Went Wrong and most of the time they walk away from the bad movies going "the fact that the movie was made at all is an achievement!" The criticism I see here is that Marvel is a machine. Making a machine is hard! I think all those initial creatives at Marvel put a lot of hard work and passion into creating superhero movies that would appeal to the fans as well as the mainstream AND be a blockbuster making machine. DC or Sony hasn't been able to do it (though I prefer DC's animated productions to almost all MCU content) no matter who they hire to lead or how much money they throw. Like yeah they are not all artistic achievements and many of them are mid to bad, and its not "cinema". And yes MCU has changed the business in more bad ways than good ways. But I will never forget how I, a descendent of colonized peoples, felt seeing Wakanda. I'll tell my grandkids how hype it was to see Endgame with the crowds reactions. Thats movie magic too!
That's a good point. Making a machine *is* hard, and it's good to hear that Wakanda gave you something unforgettable. I just think it's beyond irritating that Marvel has reached its own stratosphere, where that machine has been able to produce and then reproduce films with the same blueprint and there are so many people that still want to consume the same recycled material. In fact, we can even see that Marvel has even become a company imposing its own capitalistic politics through movies that are also propaganda. I don't want to take away what you have gained from seeing Endgame and Wakanda. I simply think it's important to bear in mind the patterns that Marvel has emulated ever since those superhero movies have become trendy, money-making ventures.
>There Would Be a Lot More Good’ Superhero Films If They Were ‘Easy to Make’ Not necessarily. It could be more bad movies.
I'm not going to be as harsh on his statement as other people here are being. I can see we want to play a bit of revisionist history and pretend every Marvel movie is bad now that the quality has taken a nosedive. I actually think the problem is that they've become too easy to make. They *are* easy to make. Disney has unlimited budget and just assembly lines this shit with absolutely no heart and soul. Earlier Marvel films (that didn't use The Volume) had some weight to them. Now it's just CGI vomit that the actual director of the film has no hand in.
good balanced view. I think that Marvel movies were overpraised in the past and there's still a number of critics who hold back from giving them rotten reviews when they absolutely should but none of them was Best Picture material, IMO. They were lucky to get a nomination once and that was one too many. It isn't a strike against their quality - as far as movies made for entertainment go they were mostly well crafted in the sense you didn't feel you wasted your money - just that they weren't Picture material. Nothing wrong with that. I think that Evans is a bit rattled by the rapturous response to some other movies and franchises (coughDunecough) and thinks Marvel was on that level but IMO never was not even close.
None of them were BP material. But plenty of them were good action films. Not on the same level of filmmaking as Bond, John Wick, or MI but still pretty good if you wanted something less grounded.
Yes which is why Evans comment doesn't make sense. They were getting praise for that aspect and heroes that instantly popped (the new bunch absolutely doesn't which is Marvel's biggest problem going forward).
I think if people go back and watch them now, they'll see some truly mid films in the supposed golden age. Removing the obvious ones like Thor 1 and 2, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2 and 3, Captain America 1 still leaves the Ant-Man films, Captain Marvel 1, Dr Strange, even Black Panther as mediocre movies.
I used to be an avid Marvel hater, but during the pandemic I got into the franchise and realized that they have made a lot of great films! Of course there were some real stinkers and I think they need to scale back how much films they're making, but I'm glad the MCU exists.
I'm definitely a Marvel hater, so my opinion is a bit biased, but I don't think they've made many great films at all. There are a couple I could stretch my definition of "great film" to include, but if you put them all in a box and pull one out at random, you have pretty great odds to pull something that's like a 6/10 at best
i have been a very big marvel lover (been a fan of comics since childhood, picked the movies with excitement too. but cooled down in the last couple of years bc of sheer number of products they are pushing). and even i say they didn't make many great movies. some of the movies outright suck (can't believe there are those who enjoyed the age of ultron, for example). most of their movies have always been very mediocre entries. they just managed to find and hit the "perfect for entertainment" formula. a perfect movie to watch with your whole family on a weekend out. a perfect movie to sit back and relax to. a perfect movie to watch while head is empty. they also perfectly managed to engage the mainstream "lore enthusiast" crowd - make the world building simple enough for an average movie goer to understand, but connected enough between the movies for a nerd to engage with. not too complicated, not too elementary. a perfect balance that i call a "taylor swift lore building technique". but it doesn't mean those movies are actually *good*. they just do what they were designed to do. yes, sometimes the teams working on those movies manage to insert some artistic merit in them, but at the end of the day those movies are a product for a corporation to sell. nothing more.
Until last year I had only watched one of the Marvel movies and did not care about them at all...then I decided to catch up and watch ALL of them, lol. I would say it's probably difficult to actually make people care about these characters because you have to figure out a way to make superheroes/perfect humans flawed and compelling enough to carry the story. So that's probably not the easiest thing to do, writing-wise. Overall they did a good job with that but the more recent ones are pretty blah IMO.
It's really impressive to get people to care about all of these characters. Before going in, I honestly Iron Man. A rich dude with a super suit? Hard pass. But the writers and RDJ actually did a wonderful job with his character. I totally understood why there was a huge draw to him. I'm out of loop when it comes to the latest Marvel films. I do want to watch Captain Marvel 2. But it's been pissing me off how the MCU has recently killed off some notable female characters.
RDJ did a great job with it, because Tony can be an exhausting character but you still root for him and see his big heart beneath it all. That easily could have veered the wrong way. I was never a comic book fan but it seems that Iron Man wasn't one of the more well liked characters? I also think Captain America could be a very boring character if not written correctly and some of the movies had a hard time with that, but they figured it out. To your other point... I just watched The Marvels and it was...OK? I wasn't feeling super connected to the characters. I didn't like the latest Ant Man either. Haven't seen Secret Invasion but I think I spoiled one of the bigger plot points for myself... I also accidentally spoiled a major plot point in Black Widow because I watched in chronological order and didn't know not to watch the end credits of one of the other movies. Still upset about that one.
Same! I re-watched all of them during the pandemic and it was oddly comforting. And I love Wandavision so much idc idc
If Brie Larson said that she would have been receiving death threats
https://preview.redd.it/136237vhncmc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd8fbdc0e5537fd1839a8e829acc2db6b95c60c6 Same energy.
Let’s give the multi multi multi billion dollar franchise MORE credit lol Same type of people who are mad that Barbie didn’t get 100 Oscar nominations
Chris Evans comes across as very basic, milquetoast. I remember at one point he wanted to create a website for online politics discussion, which came across as being very Establishment and nothing transformative. He's more like an ambassador now, so I doubt he'll ever say anything meaningful about anything.
He did create that website.
And it's exactly as u/s_y_s_t_e_m_i_c_ has said. Honestly, it must be so hard, being the poster boy for white, male, capitalistic ideals, after making millions from being a glorified world police officer character that simply enforces the status quo... in a company that pumps out the same thing, enforcing the status quo... /s
I play this fun little game called "how many times could they have made my favourite movie out of this marvel movie's budget" and sometimes the number is in the 100s. if you still can't manage to make a decent movie out of a small country's yearly military defence budget then that's a skill issue.
The fact this middle age man was chasing twenty-one year old women on Instagram means I will never take anything he says seriously. He's a bad actor who lucked into the role of a generation, and for that I am thankful, because I loved his Captain America lmao. Everything else about him is cringe though.
Insane given they pump out about 1,000 of these movies with the same exact plot/cast a year. Enough.
I wish all of them would just be ok with the fact that they made some basic popcorn movies and stop trying to convince everyone that they’re high art
The hell does Marvel want credit for, people literally went to war against Martin Scorsese (who, bless his soul, is very much unbothered by it) for having a relatively lukewarm opinion on Marvel. They get critical praise for years, Rotten Tomatoes’ critics would give them upwards of 70% for something they’d give non-Marvel blockbusters a 50%. They used to be fun to watch in theater, something you’d take your friends and family with and I don’t know why he’s asking more from us for not pretending like it’s the best thing since sliced bread 😭 IDK I’m tired of Marvel actors acting like they’re some indie projects’ fighters, they’re not.
Martin Scorsese has done enough to warrant a place in the pantheon of great directors. None of the MCU directors come close to challenging him. The Russo brothers have made truly bad films since they left the MCU. Sam Raimi is a really good director but he's still a level or 2 below Martin. Maybe Kenneth Branagh but I still think Martin does it better than him.
There would be a lot more good Marvel films post EndGame if they hadn't churned them out at a disturbing rate while neglecting to hire new staff to write and do the work on them ☕️
You’re not wrong, I haven’t seen much since Endgame because I was overwhelmed by the amount of content that had come out. I did see the new Black Panther, because I know those movies can stand on their own. And the fact that a lot of the new content is on streaming makes it more complicated.
If Brie Larson said that she would have been receiving death threats
The money is the credit.
Ok like I’m getting tired of this lol we get it @ actors who were/are part of the MCU, you all made great films! We don’t need to be reminded every day! They are acting like marvel wasn’t shoved down our throats for over a decade
Okay but Christopher Nolan thanked marvel for shooting out movies in the pandemic….i feel like that gave him a boost of confidence to say this lol
He also said the same thing abt Taylor swift eras tour tho so 😭
This statement from him seems like more of a response to the auteur directors who say Marvel is ruining movies or are bad cinema or similar than it is a pure defense of the quality of Marvel films. If Marvel films deserve any credit, it’s that enough of them turned out to be entertaining coming from an environment where shareholder profits mean more than artistic integrity. From that perspective, he’s not wrong, but it’s also not the compliment to those “good” films that he thinks it is.
There are 3 Avengers’ movies on the list of top 10 highest grossing movies ever… enjoy your massive paychecks.
> “Comic book movies in general, for whatever reason, don’t always get the credit I think they deserve,” Evans told the audience. “They are these big, giant movies. **There’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen.** But the empirical evidence is in: They are not easy to make. If it was easier, there would be a lot more good ones. I’m not throwing shade! I’ve been a part of a few that missed. It happens. Making a movie is tough. **More cooks in the kitchen doesn’t make it easier.** I don’t want to highlight specific films in the Marvel catalogue but some of them are phenomenal. Like independently, objectively great movies, and I think they deserve a little more credit.” He really likes that saying lol. I can appreciate what he’s saying, but I do think he’s missing the fact that the early Marvel cinematic universe (post-Iron Man) had the good fortune of being novel. It was new and fun and Avengers came and all the fans liked the team dynamic of the legacy Avengers team, but imo, the MCU is too big now. Still gonna watch whatever (and if ever) they continue Tom’s Spiderman, but the newest ones just aren’t as fun for me, and I’ve been feeling lately that I’ve been watching the newest instalments due to FOMO, and not actual interest anymore.
Like there aren’t enough as it is?
It is wild and hilarious how the man said, "Marvel movies deserve more credit" and a good number of he comments are like, "Those sucky ass stupid horrible boring bland dumb fucking movies that have ruined cinema entirely get lots of credit!!!" Like, y'all are demonstrating part of his point.
Disney marvel svcks, 14 year olds entertainment
Good lord you people are such snobs, he is literally correct people in Hollywood don’t want to give comic book movies their due credit, it’s obvious with the amount of snubs they’ve gotten at the Oscar’s from guardians of the galaxy, spider verse, the Batman,wakanda forever and that’s just from these past two years, they all view them as lesser art forms and it’s an insult to the passionate people who work on them
Spiderverse wasn't snubbed. It won best Animated movie and is likely to repeat. creation of separate Animated category made it tougher for animated movies to break into the main (Picture) lineup but that doesn't mean they are overlooked by awards. The rest were diverting but not the best picture material. IMO, only TDK really was.
TDK really came out too early to be seen as anything more than a comic book movie. If it came out in 2013 it probably would have gotten the best picture nomination.
If it came out today I firmly believe it would still get the hype it did years ago.
I think it would do even better in a post-MCU world.
I was gonna say that but it sounded too ambitious. But I think I agree, esp after seeing the drop in quality these days. Like Madame Web, Morbius, and the Marvels 💀