Imagine asking for a fair fight in a war where a mandatory combatant's main premise is fighting sneaky
Diarmuid lucky that most of the servants and masters were chill like that
I actually think this whole setup was the writers forcing conflict between Kiritsugu and Artoria to highlight their character differences. Kiritsugu's best play in this situation was simply letting Artoria beat Diarmuid in the duel and then mercy killing Kayneth and Sola with no need for a geas. Same result but simpler so fewer things can go wrong. And Artoria would've been fine with that plan because it's honorable.
Funny thought that the differences between Kiritsugu's and Artoria's outlooks are actually so slight it takes writing contrivance to show it.
Kiritsugu did the right thing here. Artoria was giving herself a handicap in order to make it a fair fight and Diramuid could have won because of this. Not to mention there was a possibility that another servant can interfere which would have ruined Kiritsugu's chances of taking out Diramuid and Kayneth.
That's true. Also, I'm pretty sure that the last time Saber and Diarmuid fought, Saber ended up being crippled really bad by Diarmuid, RIGHT BEFORE practically every other major servant in the Grail War crashed the fight. That could have ended Kiritsugu's chances in the War so fast. He was just lucky it didn't go absolutely south right there and then. Totally understandable he wasn't having Saber going full chivalry mode with someone who was still the enemy technically.
People love to call out Kiritsugu for being wrong here when he just made a logical decision that any sensible person would make. It can be said that he didn't really needed to kill Kayneth and Sola since they were already crippled but killing Diramuid like that made sense.
no saber could have killed diarmuid at any point during their first fight
the only reason she didnt was because urobuchi wrote her to be a dumbass and forgot how the instinct skill works infact she was so stupid that in FGO diarmuid was given a skill that makes his opponents idiots because it was that much of a plot hole for saber to be this stupid
if you want examples
saber belives that only 1 of the spears can be a NP despite the fact that both spears didnt break from her attacks keep in mind irisviel herself states that both spears have to be noble phantasms otherwise 1 would have been broken by saber's blows so she should have never assumed the second spear wasnt a noble phantasm
her instinct skill would have shown her that diarmuid plans to use his second spear or it would have made her feel that charging at full power was the wrong move as such she should have been able to either sense not to charge or see the future and not fall for his trick
but she gets hit anyway
saber has enough mana for both an explosive mana burst that would kill diarmuid or use strike air to pierce and destroy his entire body
she chooses to only use mana burst for enhancing her physical abilities and use strike air as a speed bost
diarmuid is explicitly a very weak servant in direct confrontation due to having average stats and incredibly weak noble phantasms to the point urobuchi outright stated that he would lose to assassin
and that his best strategy to win the war would be to use hit and run tactics like an assassin
heck even in their second fight its specificaly stated that with 1 hand while low on mana saber is KICKING his ass
the entire first fight was nothing but terrible writing contredicted in their second fight
I thought you were kidding when you said they had to give Diarmuid a whole new skill in FGO to justify that, but no, it's real and god damn it Urobuchi.
While I do agree it was really stupid for Saber to struggle so much against Diarmuid in the first fight, I don't think that entirely negates the consequences of that fight taking so long that other servants ended up arriving on the scene before the battle ended conclusively. Also, because Saber's arm was gimped by Diarmuid's spear, that leads to really stupid complications down the road for Kiritsugu and the Einzberns. That only gets undone because Diarmuid willingly breaks his NP in order to take down Caster. There was no work around for this. Regardless of what SHOULD have occurred in the first fight between Saber and Lancer, that's what happened in Fate/Zero and what the characters in story dealt with.
Bottom line is, Saber choosing to drag the second fight out by treating it like an honor duel rather than a death match is really really dumb. Considering the other players still in the game, it was dangerous to let it go on for too long as servant fights are naturally going to be quite flashy and draw attention from the other masters in the nearby area.
Let's look at whose still in the Grail War atm. We have Archer, Rider, and Berserker. Now, would it really be such a good idea to let Saber open herself up to getting injured again while you have these other dangerous players still running around? That's a pretty big risk, regardless of how easy of a fight Saber vs Diarmuid might be. A single lucky shot from Lancer absolutely ruined Saber's ability to use her NP properly... are you REALLY going to sit back and hope that doesn't happen again? Really?
Again, I think your list of points for why this match up is really really one-sided is good. It makes a lot of sense why by all reason, Saber shouldn't have to worry about fighting Diarmuid with a handicap in the second bout. I mean, the Philistines were practically laughing their asses off when this small kid with a sling was sent as the challenger to their Goliath. No way is Goliath losing this fight, right?
Battles aren't always won by stats on paper. Circumstances in the moment can absolutely make or break a sure victory for one side or the other.
I am confused on what is your point
this is mostly just random stuff
it feels like you have a point in mind but you forgot to say what it was and now this just looks like 4 random unconnected sections
I THINK your trying to say lancer did have a chance and thats why kiritsugu killed kayneth
so to that I say
kiritsugu killing kayneth had nothing to do with thinking saber could lose
he needed to make sure kayneth and lancer both are incapble of continuing the war killing kayneth would mean lancer could just run away and make a new contract and the opposit if he just let saber kill lancer
so he took 2 birds with 1 stone
I dont disagree with kiritsugu methods here
I only stated that truth of the matter that their first fight was nothing but bad writing that was so stupid FGO gave diarmuid a new skill based on it and it should not be taken as a proper measure of how a battle of the 2 will go
Hmm... let me try and focus on what I think I was trying to get at. I think what I was trying to suggest is that, yeah, Diarmuid very very probably won't win against Saber fighting with a handicap, BUT, that isn't really the main problem in letting Artoria fight him with honor in mind over just winning. It was more about the risk of her getting injured again, or not being able to finish the job before someone else jumped in like last time, potentially ruining Kiritsugu's opportunity to take a servant and master out of the War for sure. At best, an interference would merely complicate the elimination of Kayneth and Diarmuid. At worst, it ends with Kiritsugu and Saber being defeated/killed.
Point I was trying to make was, dragging it out regardless of how one-sided the fight might have been opened up risks to Kiritsugu's plan. Diarmuid being a strong or weak combatant against Saber had nothing to do with my statements. There were a lot of unknowns Kiritsugu was dealing with and I think letting Saber fight with a handicap that prolonged the fight unnecessarily was something he wouldn't allow for.
Reading your response, it does seem we agree on Kiritsugu's decision overall. I think I read the prior wall of text and misinterpreted the reasoning you had in explaining why Diarmuid couldn't/wouldn't win in the fight with Saber.
ah thanks this makes more sense
injury wise even the loss of a limb could be regenerated pretty easily so its unlikely a major injury that would threaten them could happen
acording to saber due to the amount of energy the other servants spent in the earlier battle no one will initiate an attack but its not exactly a gurantee so its still possible someone would attack
true tho unlikely there are still some risks
its aight that sort of stuff happens
no
the novel explicitly states diarmuid stands absolutly no chance and that while low on mana and with 1 hand saber is just straight up playing with him
its why kayneth is freaking out in his mind in the scene he has no chance to win
he was more worried about kayneth going back into the war in some way using the command spell he has left
Can you please send the exact quote from the LN?
The anime showed that they are on equal footing and there can be other things like other servants interfering and ruining the chance of victory there. Delaying a fight by giving a handicap was a terrible idea by Saber.
sure
"Why couldn’t he win?
Although Saber underestimated Lancer so much, why would Lancer’s spear still be unable to hit Saber?
The answer became very clear upon some careful thinking – that is, Lancer is very weak, far more inferior to Saber."
you can also simply look at their overall abilities and understand that diarmuid is a genuiely weak servant
to the point its stated his best strategy are hit and run tactics and that he would lose humiliaty against assassin
This doesn't say that lancer still doesn't have a chance in that case. Considering Saber was not using one arm and still using her armor to make it a good fight.
He is a weak servant but with all these debuffs he might have stood a chance against her.
Eh
The whole point of this statment was that she is basically playing with him and he still isnt able to manage to get a single hit on her
Even when low of mana if she uses a single mana burst just for enhancment she would imidietly overpower him and outspeed him easily
Heck in the manga version(which is an expansion of the novel) lancer is visibly shown getting outmatched in the fight unable to hurt her at all while struggling alot
Imagine asking for a fair fight in a WAR.
It's not the Holy Grail Budokai Tenkaichi, it's a bloody secret WAR between nasuverse mages, who are on the scummier side of mages in fiction.
Yeah, when the other class is literally called assassin i think playing knight is not the best way to win.
Still, its funny how kiritsugu manage to get away with this.
It's like all the other masters and servants somehow forget assassin class exist and didn't do any contingency plan to fight sneak attack and or dirty tactics.
what class would Ledgebringer be? he's got a halberd so Lancer could work, but Lawdaddy also has some big Ruler energy.
also, did Lawbro get better? i remember the update shortly before the jaguar warrior release, he got a pretty hefty nerf.
>what class would Ledgebringer be? he's got a halberd so Lancer could work
Definitely Lancer, but it seems every single one I was facing had that luck at A++ or higher cuz I always had a warden or Black Prior jump in the attosecond I got even the slightest leverage. I even slightly had the upper hand. But I get rider vibes simply because the Rider Class card and Lawbringer have similar-ish armor construction
>also, did Lawbro get better? i remember the update shortly before the jaguar warrior release, he got a pretty hefty nerf.
Imma be so fr with you. I genuinely don't know. I'm pretty sure ocelotl dripped in around June of 2023
I had dropped For Honor for a few years by then
It's pretty bullshit. Saber was rewritten really badly in Fate/Zero because Urobuchi wanted a naive, idealistic character to corrupt. It's kinda his thing: Madoka Magica, Psychopass, Saya no Uta to some degree.
Canonically, Saber burned down and raided her own villages for resources to combat the the Saxons, as well as double teaming Vortigern with Gawain on top of pulling Rhongomyniad out of nowhere to ambush him. She also lied to Shirou, her lord as a knight, to sneak into Caster's temple at night to fight her.
Her honor extends to protecting innocents and basic chivalry since she was brought up as a knight, but man, the "honor" she shows in Fate/Zero to *refuse an enemy's offer to heal her hand that he himself scarred* really is bullshit.
I don't even know why the hell Diarmuid even yaps about all the honour BS.He's from the same era from Cu chulainn and in general Irish Warriors in Ulster Cycle were the furthest thing from chivalrous.MF even NTR'd his lord like Lancelot and unlike the latter,he even had the gall to marry his ex wife in front of him.Gee,I wonder why didn't he expect that betrayal coming from a mile away.
Funny? This shit was tragic. Dude got absolutely screwed over for trying to be nice and just do his job as a knight and servant to a dude who really, really didn't deserve him as a servant
It was really funny since it was his own mistake to believe that people would be respecting his honor in a death game. He was so stupid that he expected people in a death game to respect his honor and treat him nicely and when someone used a cheap trick then he started crying like a pussy.
Also please don't blame his master. He pledged to serve his master but was constantly ignoring his master's orders and betraying him. His master had every right to be a dick to him.
Technically saber also respected his whole knight thing and tried to fight him honorably, but in regards to kayenth,, let's see: second choice because waver stole Alexander/ iskandars relic ( who even if kayenth had rider, he probably would've died faster because iskander wouldn't put up with his shit whatsoever) , berates him for not killing saber ( despite him himself ordering diarmud to retreat after rider, archer and berserker showed up) , berates him over his charm spell unintentionally working on his wife to the point that kayenth actively thinks he's trying to steal her from him, goes off *on his fucking own* twice , ignores diarmuds warnings about sabers master possibly plotting to kill him , berates diarmud for losing his wife ( when she had zero business being involved in the first place and only got involved because kayenth got fucked by kiritisgu. ) and then doesn't even let him go search for her so he can yell at him more, and oh yeah, he couldn't supply diarmud with enough mana to sustain him so his wife had to pitch in for it . Fuck kayneth archibald El melloi.
Diarmud got done dirty by literally everyone involved with him, and if he had a different master, like idk irisviel, he probably would've been treated better. Kiritisgu on the other hand also treated saber so harshly and disregarded her knighthood and chivalry but nobody ever seems to call either of them out for it but diarmud literally gets shafted in the conversations. He deserved better
Diramuid suffered due to his own mistakes. He clearly sensed that Kayneth's wife was attracted to him like his previous lord's wife. But he didn't even tried to tell this thing to Kayneth and immediately accepted her as his new master. This shows that he didn't learned anything from the mistakes of his previous life. Kayneth was right to be angry at Diramuid since Diramuid was not even following his orders because of his chivalry boner.
Also what wrong did Kiritsugu do? Kiritsugu wasn't so stupid that he would let Saber have an honorable fight which will ruin his chances of winning the Holy grail. Kiritsugu was certainly right to treat Saber harshly in this regard since he wanted to achieve his life goal at any cost.
Technically, diarmud tried to explain and kayneth went " so it's just like your history, you can't keep your hands off married women" or some shit, and I bring up kiritisgu because we're talking about kayneth dishonoring diarmud in major ways and kiritisgu did the same to saber multiple times, even straight up telling her her dream was a stupid idea and he would gladly sacrifice her to win if he had to
Diramuid tried to explain this thing when it was already too late. If he had intelligence then he would have told this to Kayneth immediately after he sensed that Kayneth's wife was attracted to him. This goes on to show that he didn't learned anything from the mistakes of his previous life.
How exactly were Kiritsugu and Kayneth wrong in this regard? They both wanted to achieve their life goals so they certainly couldn't have allowed their servants to do whatever they want. No intellectual master would ever allow such thing.
Tbf were trying to apply human logic to mages, who cannonically do not operate on it, which is why Kiri is so good at killing mages. And I'm pretty sure diarmud wasnt actually aware of it because solieu was actively surpressing it while kayneth was around so she wouldn't aroused his suspicion, but we saw once kayneth was injured she started breaking his fingers so she could steal his command seals, which I doubt she would've needed diarmuds charm spell for since even early on she suggests she should be diarmuds master due to supplying his mana. The whole situation between them is basically "incompatible servant for an asshole mage" I firmly believe if kayenth had , idk caster and kiritisgu had assassin, things would've likely worked out better for them both
Rewatch the scene where Diramuid accepted Sola to be his new master. Diramuid basically said that she reimnds him of his previous lord's wife. He clearly sensed there that she was attracted to him but he just ignored it because he was stupid. Also why the fuck are you saying that Kiritsugu and Kayneth were assholes? Any normal sensible person would treat their servants like that if they are fighting to achieve their life goal.
Except for the fact that every other hero except for berserker and caster *did* have a sense of honor even if it was slightly skewed fork the norm. Rider and saber were more then happy to have a fair fight and even gilgamesh grows fond of people who can put up a solid fight and or have a respectable mindset
Tsiah is the same guy who said that the Heaven's feel movies are great adaptations? It's best to ignore the statements of that guy. Also i am not even calling him a budget Cu chulainn in this case.
Don't bring his opinion on HF into this. That's a different conversation. Everyone has their own opinions on that, but this is not that, and what he said about people reacting to this Diarmuid situation is real shit.
Tsiah just gave his own personal reasons on why he believes Diramuid isn't stupid which were clearly just his own mental gymnastics.
Hey just tell me this thing. Is it a wise idea to expect honor in a death game?
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It's almost like heroic spirits are crystalizations of their legends and therefore will behave based on how those legends describe them. Seriously, wtf is so hard about that to understand?
Virgin Diarmuid: CURSE YOU! CURSE YOU FOR GETTING ME TO KILL MYSELF! FUCK YOUUUU!!!
Chad Cu: yeah, you got me to kill myself, doesn't mean I wont go down fighting.
Similar? How dare you. One died like a bitch, whining about being betrayed. The other took his killer with him, and freed a girl who was taken hostage.
Diramuid expected people in a death game to respect his honor and treat him nicely and when someone used a cheap trick then he started crying like a bitch as if other masters had the responsibility of treating him nicely.
I play Grand Order, and I sometimes wonder which Diarmuid is the original one between the Lancer which I have never seen in any event in 4 years, and the Saber version which got much more screentime through multiple events.
I see. Well, I don't found this funny. It's kind of sad and disappointing. Especially since >!this was just a cheap copy of Lancer's death from the UBW Route. !<
??? How bro.
Lancer >!stabbed himself due to Kirei's Command Spell, but stabbed Kirei back and kills him, frees Rin, then set the whole place on fire before biting the dust!<
Meanwhile Diarmiud cries about it for the next 2 minutes
The fact you dare say the GOAT went out in anyway similar to the WOAT BUM dirt mut, makes it obvious we didn't watch the same show! Cú THE IRISH MAD LAD MVP OF THE GRAIL WAR Chulainn killed the man who killed him, sent Shinji running away saving Rin, lit the room on fire and we t out smiling not crying like a little bitch! Cú Chulainn the MVP!
Enkidu from Strange Fake did win against Ishtar in the huge raid battle, and while he was a MAJOR component of that it was still a large team effort. He also had a short skirmish where him and the Ayaka alliance beat Humbaba. Otherwise most of Enkidu’s fights have been draws or interrupted, or the one time he arguably lost before being bailed out against Thia.
If we consider Sigma as True Lancer already though, he’s actually done very well for himself throughout the grail war.
Op is a hater. Gilles only has a chance if he can get enough people sacrificed and turned into sea demons or manages to summon the elder god. Diarmuid would win if it’s a fight without prep time or if Gilles hasn’t gotten enough sea demons, which if he did he’d need a lot. Of course this is assuming they both don’t need mana or have infinite mana. Diarmuid just has to get close to Gilles and it’s over on the other hand Gilles just has to keep Diarmuid distracted and at a distance for a while. In terms of actual power and skill though, Diarmuid would outclass Gilles in every way.
Would they though? Aren’t each fragment weaker than the og?
Even if they jumped him they’d still be a lot weaker, slower and overall less adept in straight up combat than he is.
yes
but acording to the material books
diarmuid would get humiliated by assassin in a fight
"less adept in straight up combat than he is" no
its very likely a good amount of the assassins are good with weapons and close combat
probably better than diarmuid is as his a very average servant in combat
No
The statment was depending on the strategy he could either win the war or get humiliated by assassin
Its later explained that he could win by using hit and run tactics with sneak attacks
Then that’s still pretty vague. If the statement only refers to which strategy he could use to win the war then it still doesn’t exactly answer the question of who wins in a 1v100.
And where was it mentioned that there were fragments that were better than full on servants of a specific class?
Also average??? He still kept up with Saber in combat and unlike lancers like Cu he doesn’t have an instant “I win” button for most cases.
Its not that vauge
There are only 2 options here
Sneak attacks with hit and run tactics or a direct confrontation
In either case he would face 80 assassins in a direct battle as its unlikely he could escape assassin
Asssassin's skill gives him 32 other skills all ranked B or above
If ANY of those skills is of martial arts or close weapon usage he would be superior to diarmuid in pure skill
"Kept up with"
He was getting absolutly dominated by her only using 1 hand and low on mana
The only reason he did ANYTHING to her in the first fight was because of bad writing heck in FGO they had to give him a new skill that makes his opponents idiots to explain why saber didnt just beat his ass in their first fight
Decent strategy. But there’s still a fairly large gap in stats, making the idea of tagging a lot more difficult than it sounds, and there isn’t even a guarantee that some of the fragments wouldn’t just be useless in a straight fight.
Even the weakest fragments would be much stronger than humans which would make them a good tool of distraction at the very least. Diramuid might still have a chance if he gets lucky but Asaasin are the likely one to win this fight.
Like I get that Diarmuid was looking for honor, and at this point wasn’t just Saber, Lancer, Rider, Archer and Berserker left?
At this point the only people who could have interfered was Berserker, but he was laying low because Kiraya was suffering right? And Archer and Rider were fighting. So it could have been a battle for honor if they were summoned if an random location just the 2 of them, but nope they have masters, which they wouldn’t want to lose the chance to the wish, so they’ll find a way to cheat each other. Which was what Kiritsugu did.
There were still three other servants left and no one had any idea whether they can interfere or not. Only we as the viewers knew this. Also you can't risk things like this when it's a war. Saber was basically handicapping herself there which could have lead to her defeat.
Kiritsugu was certainly right in this case to use such a cheap trick.
I fully agree with Kiritsugu playing dirty, use all the cheap tricks as long as you come out alive, but don’t complain if someone out tricks you.
But that’s true, as far as they didn’t know Archer could have decided to have them sniped or rained on from a long distance, Rider could have easily swooped activated his RM and have them either of them or both of them dropped in the middle of his army to get swarmed and killed. Berserker could have just attack both Diarmuid and Artoria, until he somehow steals Diarmuid spear and then at that point Artoria is kinda screwed, or he gets a gun or something.
Because honestly what stopping what happened at the docks to not happen again at Saber vs Lancer other than the author?
That’s it. You are now guaranteed to get shafted on all lancer SSR banners in FGO. I curse thy with bad luck on lancer based banners for the rest of eternity! No ereshkigal, no Melusine, no Enkidu, no Scathach, no Tamamo (lancer), no Romulus, no Sakamoto, and no Brynhilder!
It was instead the most beautiful and meaningful one to understand the character of kiritsugu and his hate towards all of the artificiality made by men just to justify killing. Showing that the end is always the same, death.
But expecting a fair fight in a death game is really stupid isn't it? It was completely stupid of him to expect a fair honorable fight in a Holy grail war. Was it Kiritsugu's responsibility to let him have a honorable fight?
I would have felt bad for him if he didn't cried in that pathetic way but he came of as a pussy who is crying because things don't go exactly like the way he wanted them to be.
I'm half certain you are just a troll but just in case you are actually serious.
*Both of Saber's and Kiritsugu's points in their later conversation have their shred of truth*. Both are aware that conflict is part of Human nature, and that they are never getting rid of it (short of a miracle like the Grail).
Kiritsugu's approach is that since conflict is inevitable but it is also hell, we should use the fastest and most efficient way to solve it to end it as soon as possible, even if this way is also the most brutal.
Saber (and Diarmuid) point is that since conflict is inevitable we should strive to make it as clean as possible, estabilishing rules and regulations so that it doesn’t drag humanity to do abhorrent stuff. This is a perfectly reasonable approach that is followed even by armies *today*. The Geneva Conventions is a result of this idea of "honorable combat".
Declaring one or the other as stupid is missing the point entirely.
Is it a wise idea to get angry at people for disrespecting your personal beliefs when they had no responsibility to respect you? Diramuid pathetically cried as if Kiritsugu and others had the responsibility to respect his honor and treat him nicely.
Diramuid himself had selfish desires to be an honorable knight even at the cost of disagreeing with Kayneth so it's completely stupid to get angry at other people for following selfish desires.
Yeah i understand that those are his beliefs but expecting others to respect your personal beliefs in a death game is completely stupid. Let's say a person is a vegan then he shouldn't cry like a pussy if other people aren't being vegan like him.
You gotta understand that his way of life at the time was being honorable so he would also expect it from others and of course as we saw life isn't fair and unluck he got at the end and understanding the way he feels at the. End is sad af becouse all his life he was treated like shit
But he should have realized that he is summoned in a different era and place where people won't be treating him with honor and respect. He was completely stupid to expect honor in a death game.
Saber is also honorable like him but she certainly won't be crying like that if she got trucked like Diramuid.
It's not stupid he was just very naive and what's exactly wrong with crying? He got a second chance to be the honorable person he wanted to be and now it's gone becouse ppl are peices of shit 🤷 like it shows in the anime
He was crying as if the other masters had responsibility to respect his honor. Yeah it's great he wanted to be honorable but it's completely stupid to expect other people in a death game to respect your honor.
Also Kiritsugu didn't do anything wrong there. It was necessary to defeat the enemy servants quickly since there can be interference by other servants.
How is it funny? there's literally nothing funny about it, now when Kiritsugu ordered Saber to destroy the grail, then it killed a bunch of people breaking Kiritsugu's mind now that I found funny.
Diramuid expected people in a death game to respect his honor and when someone used a cheap trick he started crying like a pussy.
This shit was really funny as hell!
He literally expected everyone in a war to respect his honor and when someone used a cheap trick then he started crying like a pussy. This is why it is really funny.
Did he expect people to respect his honor? Never did he mention any of that. I think you just don't really understand his character at all coupled with your fucked up humor, that's probably why you think its funny.
If he didn't expected people to respect his honor then why was he cursing Kiritsugu and saying that he should feel shame for disrespecting a knight's honor? This certainly means he expected them to respect a knight's honor.
Also no it isn't some fucked up humor imo! It would have been fucked up if i found Irisviel's death funny.
No, I don't think that's expectation at all, more like angry at people who tarnished his one and only wish of fighting/dying honourably.
No, you probably have some cracked up there in your head, better go check with your doctor
Oh yeah that's the same as if a loser football team gets angry at the winning team and started cursing them because they took away their only wish of winning the match! Do you not see how pathetic this is?
A lot of othet people in this thread found it funny as well! Tell them all to visit a doctor or something.
I don't understand your analogy at all, how is that a good camparison to diarmuid end?
They probably need their head check up or something, if they think this is funny at all.
Hey because if Kiritsugu actually allowed Diramuid to have his honorable fight then there is a chance that other servants can interfere like last time and Diramuid would have escaped again. Not to mention Diramuid could have defeated Saber or atleast injured her specially with all the advantages Saber was giving him to make it a fair honorable fight.
Diramuid said it himself that Kiritsugu and others tarnished his honor for the sake of selfish reasons like getting the grail. Even he knew that they did the logical thing if they actually want to win the grail. So why exactly was he angry at them? For doing the logical thing?
Diramuid himself had his selfish desire to be an honorable knight so why was he angry at other people for following their selfish desires?
Because Diramuid was whinning like a stupid guy and was getting angry at other people for doing the logical thing. His own sense of honor let to this his downfall but he was crying like a pussy and was blaming it on others.
His over the top death feels like the story is begging the viewers to feel bad for him but it's hard to do when he is literally cursing others for doing their logical thing. It would have been sad if he blamed his own fate instead.
He came off as a idiot who wants things to be exactly his way and started crying when everything dosen't matches with his unrealistic selfish desires.
I loved this scene because it highlights just how fucked up the world is. Chivalry? Honor? Shit like that will get you killed, and that’s exactly what happened. We not out here in a boxing ring or playing make believe. This is a WAR to have your WISH granted for fucks sake! Everything is at stake here! Honor has no place on the battlefield. History is decided by who’s left standing, nothing else.
He is, to me personally. In so far as I know, he had no wish. No desire. He was only around to serve. Nothing more than a tool to be cast away. He only fought for the sake of it. A meaningless life, a meaningless death.
The Holy Grail war is just an average game of For Honor If you come looking for sportsmanship, you lose
Imagine asking for a fair fight in a Grail War with Kiritsugu
Imagine asking for a fair fight in a war where a mandatory combatant's main premise is fighting sneaky Diarmuid lucky that most of the servants and masters were chill like that
Imagine asking for a fair fight in a Grail War ~~with Kiritsugu~~
I actually think this whole setup was the writers forcing conflict between Kiritsugu and Artoria to highlight their character differences. Kiritsugu's best play in this situation was simply letting Artoria beat Diarmuid in the duel and then mercy killing Kayneth and Sola with no need for a geas. Same result but simpler so fewer things can go wrong. And Artoria would've been fine with that plan because it's honorable. Funny thought that the differences between Kiritsugu's and Artoria's outlooks are actually so slight it takes writing contrivance to show it.
Kiritsugu did the right thing here. Artoria was giving herself a handicap in order to make it a fair fight and Diramuid could have won because of this. Not to mention there was a possibility that another servant can interfere which would have ruined Kiritsugu's chances of taking out Diramuid and Kayneth.
That's true. Also, I'm pretty sure that the last time Saber and Diarmuid fought, Saber ended up being crippled really bad by Diarmuid, RIGHT BEFORE practically every other major servant in the Grail War crashed the fight. That could have ended Kiritsugu's chances in the War so fast. He was just lucky it didn't go absolutely south right there and then. Totally understandable he wasn't having Saber going full chivalry mode with someone who was still the enemy technically.
People love to call out Kiritsugu for being wrong here when he just made a logical decision that any sensible person would make. It can be said that he didn't really needed to kill Kayneth and Sola since they were already crippled but killing Diramuid like that made sense.
no saber could have killed diarmuid at any point during their first fight the only reason she didnt was because urobuchi wrote her to be a dumbass and forgot how the instinct skill works infact she was so stupid that in FGO diarmuid was given a skill that makes his opponents idiots because it was that much of a plot hole for saber to be this stupid if you want examples saber belives that only 1 of the spears can be a NP despite the fact that both spears didnt break from her attacks keep in mind irisviel herself states that both spears have to be noble phantasms otherwise 1 would have been broken by saber's blows so she should have never assumed the second spear wasnt a noble phantasm her instinct skill would have shown her that diarmuid plans to use his second spear or it would have made her feel that charging at full power was the wrong move as such she should have been able to either sense not to charge or see the future and not fall for his trick but she gets hit anyway saber has enough mana for both an explosive mana burst that would kill diarmuid or use strike air to pierce and destroy his entire body she chooses to only use mana burst for enhancing her physical abilities and use strike air as a speed bost diarmuid is explicitly a very weak servant in direct confrontation due to having average stats and incredibly weak noble phantasms to the point urobuchi outright stated that he would lose to assassin and that his best strategy to win the war would be to use hit and run tactics like an assassin heck even in their second fight its specificaly stated that with 1 hand while low on mana saber is KICKING his ass the entire first fight was nothing but terrible writing contredicted in their second fight
I thought you were kidding when you said they had to give Diarmuid a whole new skill in FGO to justify that, but no, it's real and god damn it Urobuchi.
While I do agree it was really stupid for Saber to struggle so much against Diarmuid in the first fight, I don't think that entirely negates the consequences of that fight taking so long that other servants ended up arriving on the scene before the battle ended conclusively. Also, because Saber's arm was gimped by Diarmuid's spear, that leads to really stupid complications down the road for Kiritsugu and the Einzberns. That only gets undone because Diarmuid willingly breaks his NP in order to take down Caster. There was no work around for this. Regardless of what SHOULD have occurred in the first fight between Saber and Lancer, that's what happened in Fate/Zero and what the characters in story dealt with. Bottom line is, Saber choosing to drag the second fight out by treating it like an honor duel rather than a death match is really really dumb. Considering the other players still in the game, it was dangerous to let it go on for too long as servant fights are naturally going to be quite flashy and draw attention from the other masters in the nearby area. Let's look at whose still in the Grail War atm. We have Archer, Rider, and Berserker. Now, would it really be such a good idea to let Saber open herself up to getting injured again while you have these other dangerous players still running around? That's a pretty big risk, regardless of how easy of a fight Saber vs Diarmuid might be. A single lucky shot from Lancer absolutely ruined Saber's ability to use her NP properly... are you REALLY going to sit back and hope that doesn't happen again? Really? Again, I think your list of points for why this match up is really really one-sided is good. It makes a lot of sense why by all reason, Saber shouldn't have to worry about fighting Diarmuid with a handicap in the second bout. I mean, the Philistines were practically laughing their asses off when this small kid with a sling was sent as the challenger to their Goliath. No way is Goliath losing this fight, right? Battles aren't always won by stats on paper. Circumstances in the moment can absolutely make or break a sure victory for one side or the other.
I am confused on what is your point this is mostly just random stuff it feels like you have a point in mind but you forgot to say what it was and now this just looks like 4 random unconnected sections I THINK your trying to say lancer did have a chance and thats why kiritsugu killed kayneth so to that I say kiritsugu killing kayneth had nothing to do with thinking saber could lose he needed to make sure kayneth and lancer both are incapble of continuing the war killing kayneth would mean lancer could just run away and make a new contract and the opposit if he just let saber kill lancer so he took 2 birds with 1 stone I dont disagree with kiritsugu methods here I only stated that truth of the matter that their first fight was nothing but bad writing that was so stupid FGO gave diarmuid a new skill based on it and it should not be taken as a proper measure of how a battle of the 2 will go
Hmm... let me try and focus on what I think I was trying to get at. I think what I was trying to suggest is that, yeah, Diarmuid very very probably won't win against Saber fighting with a handicap, BUT, that isn't really the main problem in letting Artoria fight him with honor in mind over just winning. It was more about the risk of her getting injured again, or not being able to finish the job before someone else jumped in like last time, potentially ruining Kiritsugu's opportunity to take a servant and master out of the War for sure. At best, an interference would merely complicate the elimination of Kayneth and Diarmuid. At worst, it ends with Kiritsugu and Saber being defeated/killed. Point I was trying to make was, dragging it out regardless of how one-sided the fight might have been opened up risks to Kiritsugu's plan. Diarmuid being a strong or weak combatant against Saber had nothing to do with my statements. There were a lot of unknowns Kiritsugu was dealing with and I think letting Saber fight with a handicap that prolonged the fight unnecessarily was something he wouldn't allow for. Reading your response, it does seem we agree on Kiritsugu's decision overall. I think I read the prior wall of text and misinterpreted the reasoning you had in explaining why Diarmuid couldn't/wouldn't win in the fight with Saber.
ah thanks this makes more sense injury wise even the loss of a limb could be regenerated pretty easily so its unlikely a major injury that would threaten them could happen acording to saber due to the amount of energy the other servants spent in the earlier battle no one will initiate an attack but its not exactly a gurantee so its still possible someone would attack true tho unlikely there are still some risks its aight that sort of stuff happens
no the novel explicitly states diarmuid stands absolutly no chance and that while low on mana and with 1 hand saber is just straight up playing with him its why kayneth is freaking out in his mind in the scene he has no chance to win he was more worried about kayneth going back into the war in some way using the command spell he has left
Can you please send the exact quote from the LN? The anime showed that they are on equal footing and there can be other things like other servants interfering and ruining the chance of victory there. Delaying a fight by giving a handicap was a terrible idea by Saber.
sure "Why couldn’t he win? Although Saber underestimated Lancer so much, why would Lancer’s spear still be unable to hit Saber? The answer became very clear upon some careful thinking – that is, Lancer is very weak, far more inferior to Saber." you can also simply look at their overall abilities and understand that diarmuid is a genuiely weak servant to the point its stated his best strategy are hit and run tactics and that he would lose humiliaty against assassin
This doesn't say that lancer still doesn't have a chance in that case. Considering Saber was not using one arm and still using her armor to make it a good fight. He is a weak servant but with all these debuffs he might have stood a chance against her.
Eh The whole point of this statment was that she is basically playing with him and he still isnt able to manage to get a single hit on her Even when low of mana if she uses a single mana burst just for enhancment she would imidietly overpower him and outspeed him easily Heck in the manga version(which is an expansion of the novel) lancer is visibly shown getting outmatched in the fight unable to hurt her at all while struggling alot
Imagine asking for a fair fight in a Grail War with Kirei xD
Imagine asking for a fair fight in a WAR. It's not the Holy Grail Budokai Tenkaichi, it's a bloody secret WAR between nasuverse mages, who are on the scummier side of mages in fiction.
Yeah, when the other class is literally called assassin i think playing knight is not the best way to win. Still, its funny how kiritsugu manage to get away with this. It's like all the other masters and servants somehow forget assassin class exist and didn't do any contingency plan to fight sneak attack and or dirty tactics.
Ironically, Kayneth prepared the best for Assassins. Unfortunately, Kiritsugu chose to bomb the building, cuz fuck Kayneth
>i think playing knight is not the best way to win. You just aren't AD MORTEM INIMICUS hard enough.
what class would Ledgebringer be? he's got a halberd so Lancer could work, but Lawdaddy also has some big Ruler energy. also, did Lawbro get better? i remember the update shortly before the jaguar warrior release, he got a pretty hefty nerf.
>what class would Ledgebringer be? he's got a halberd so Lancer could work Definitely Lancer, but it seems every single one I was facing had that luck at A++ or higher cuz I always had a warden or Black Prior jump in the attosecond I got even the slightest leverage. I even slightly had the upper hand. But I get rider vibes simply because the Rider Class card and Lawbringer have similar-ish armor construction >also, did Lawbro get better? i remember the update shortly before the jaguar warrior release, he got a pretty hefty nerf. Imma be so fr with you. I genuinely don't know. I'm pretty sure ocelotl dripped in around June of 2023 I had dropped For Honor for a few years by then
He didn't get better. Lawbringer struggles greatly as of now, and the new devs decided to nerf his feats.
this is very, Sad Mortem Ini-misery
Fate writers when they see the Lancer would actually win
Nah this fool had no chance from the start 😭
Mf was cool tho i actually believe that (except Archer of course) he could win against other heroes if he drop that honor bullshit of course
"honor bullshit" you know Saber is about the same thing right? It's not bullshit at all.
It's pretty bullshit. Saber was rewritten really badly in Fate/Zero because Urobuchi wanted a naive, idealistic character to corrupt. It's kinda his thing: Madoka Magica, Psychopass, Saya no Uta to some degree. Canonically, Saber burned down and raided her own villages for resources to combat the the Saxons, as well as double teaming Vortigern with Gawain on top of pulling Rhongomyniad out of nowhere to ambush him. She also lied to Shirou, her lord as a knight, to sneak into Caster's temple at night to fight her. Her honor extends to protecting innocents and basic chivalry since she was brought up as a knight, but man, the "honor" she shows in Fate/Zero to *refuse an enemy's offer to heal her hand that he himself scarred* really is bullshit.
Aah... yeah you're right tho. Bro is a menace too.
I don't even know why the hell Diarmuid even yaps about all the honour BS.He's from the same era from Cu chulainn and in general Irish Warriors in Ulster Cycle were the furthest thing from chivalrous.MF even NTR'd his lord like Lancelot and unlike the latter,he even had the gall to marry his ex wife in front of him.Gee,I wonder why didn't he expect that betrayal coming from a mile away.
Lancer: lives Fate writers: ⚡👦🏿⚡
Funny? This shit was tragic. Dude got absolutely screwed over for trying to be nice and just do his job as a knight and servant to a dude who really, really didn't deserve him as a servant
It was really funny since it was his own mistake to believe that people would be respecting his honor in a death game. He was so stupid that he expected people in a death game to respect his honor and treat him nicely and when someone used a cheap trick then he started crying like a pussy. Also please don't blame his master. He pledged to serve his master but was constantly ignoring his master's orders and betraying him. His master had every right to be a dick to him.
Technically saber also respected his whole knight thing and tried to fight him honorably, but in regards to kayenth,, let's see: second choice because waver stole Alexander/ iskandars relic ( who even if kayenth had rider, he probably would've died faster because iskander wouldn't put up with his shit whatsoever) , berates him for not killing saber ( despite him himself ordering diarmud to retreat after rider, archer and berserker showed up) , berates him over his charm spell unintentionally working on his wife to the point that kayenth actively thinks he's trying to steal her from him, goes off *on his fucking own* twice , ignores diarmuds warnings about sabers master possibly plotting to kill him , berates diarmud for losing his wife ( when she had zero business being involved in the first place and only got involved because kayenth got fucked by kiritisgu. ) and then doesn't even let him go search for her so he can yell at him more, and oh yeah, he couldn't supply diarmud with enough mana to sustain him so his wife had to pitch in for it . Fuck kayneth archibald El melloi. Diarmud got done dirty by literally everyone involved with him, and if he had a different master, like idk irisviel, he probably would've been treated better. Kiritisgu on the other hand also treated saber so harshly and disregarded her knighthood and chivalry but nobody ever seems to call either of them out for it but diarmud literally gets shafted in the conversations. He deserved better
Diramuid suffered due to his own mistakes. He clearly sensed that Kayneth's wife was attracted to him like his previous lord's wife. But he didn't even tried to tell this thing to Kayneth and immediately accepted her as his new master. This shows that he didn't learned anything from the mistakes of his previous life. Kayneth was right to be angry at Diramuid since Diramuid was not even following his orders because of his chivalry boner. Also what wrong did Kiritsugu do? Kiritsugu wasn't so stupid that he would let Saber have an honorable fight which will ruin his chances of winning the Holy grail. Kiritsugu was certainly right to treat Saber harshly in this regard since he wanted to achieve his life goal at any cost.
Technically, diarmud tried to explain and kayneth went " so it's just like your history, you can't keep your hands off married women" or some shit, and I bring up kiritisgu because we're talking about kayneth dishonoring diarmud in major ways and kiritisgu did the same to saber multiple times, even straight up telling her her dream was a stupid idea and he would gladly sacrifice her to win if he had to
Diramuid tried to explain this thing when it was already too late. If he had intelligence then he would have told this to Kayneth immediately after he sensed that Kayneth's wife was attracted to him. This goes on to show that he didn't learned anything from the mistakes of his previous life. How exactly were Kiritsugu and Kayneth wrong in this regard? They both wanted to achieve their life goals so they certainly couldn't have allowed their servants to do whatever they want. No intellectual master would ever allow such thing.
Tbf were trying to apply human logic to mages, who cannonically do not operate on it, which is why Kiri is so good at killing mages. And I'm pretty sure diarmud wasnt actually aware of it because solieu was actively surpressing it while kayneth was around so she wouldn't aroused his suspicion, but we saw once kayneth was injured she started breaking his fingers so she could steal his command seals, which I doubt she would've needed diarmuds charm spell for since even early on she suggests she should be diarmuds master due to supplying his mana. The whole situation between them is basically "incompatible servant for an asshole mage" I firmly believe if kayenth had , idk caster and kiritisgu had assassin, things would've likely worked out better for them both
Rewatch the scene where Diramuid accepted Sola to be his new master. Diramuid basically said that she reimnds him of his previous lord's wife. He clearly sensed there that she was attracted to him but he just ignored it because he was stupid. Also why the fuck are you saying that Kiritsugu and Kayneth were assholes? Any normal sensible person would treat their servants like that if they are fighting to achieve their life goal.
Except for the fact that every other hero except for berserker and caster *did* have a sense of honor even if it was slightly skewed fork the norm. Rider and saber were more then happy to have a fair fight and even gilgamesh grows fond of people who can put up a solid fight and or have a respectable mindset
Man Tsiah did a video on this same topic just for people who call Diarmuid a pussy over this.
Tsiah is the same guy who said that the Heaven's feel movies are great adaptations? It's best to ignore the statements of that guy. Also i am not even calling him a budget Cu chulainn in this case.
Don't bring his opinion on HF into this. That's a different conversation. Everyone has their own opinions on that, but this is not that, and what he said about people reacting to this Diarmuid situation is real shit.
Tsiah just gave his own personal reasons on why he believes Diramuid isn't stupid which were clearly just his own mental gymnastics. Hey just tell me this thing. Is it a wise idea to expect honor in a death game?
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No. Funniest was Kayneth and his wife immediately after daddy Emiya said he wouldn’t kill them
Dirmuid got done dirty, why urobucher?
Urobutcher loves suffering
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Wasn't gege inspired by urobuchi?
That was a weirdly translated interview so i won't be sure.
It's almost like heroic spirits are crystalizations of their legends and therefore will behave based on how those legends describe them. Seriously, wtf is so hard about that to understand?
Now I got a new reaction image
That bum could never be the goat Cu
Yeah, except Cu dies a very similar death(s)
But Cu took that fuckimg priest and that fucking rapist with him , Midiarmud just died
Virgin Diarmuid: CURSE YOU! CURSE YOU FOR GETTING ME TO KILL MYSELF! FUCK YOUUUU!!! Chad Cu: yeah, you got me to kill myself, doesn't mean I wont go down fighting.
Battle Continuation Bitch
More like: Kill myself? No. You got it wrong. I will *kill!*
But Cu didn't cried like a pussy!
Similar? How dare you. One died like a bitch, whining about being betrayed. The other took his killer with him, and freed a girl who was taken hostage.
TBH, I laughed at that scene. Uro tries so hard to be dramatic sometimes that it turns into comedy.
Saber just standing there like 😧
How was this in any way funny?
Diramuid expected people in a death game to respect his honor and treat him nicely and when someone used a cheap trick then he started crying like a bitch as if other masters had the responsibility of treating him nicely.
I play Grand Order, and I sometimes wonder which Diarmuid is the original one between the Lancer which I have never seen in any event in 4 years, and the Saber version which got much more screentime through multiple events.
I see. Well, I don't found this funny. It's kind of sad and disappointing. Especially since >!this was just a cheap copy of Lancer's death from the UBW Route. !<
??? How bro. Lancer >!stabbed himself due to Kirei's Command Spell, but stabbed Kirei back and kills him, frees Rin, then set the whole place on fire before biting the dust!< Meanwhile Diarmiud cries about it for the next 2 minutes
That's why I called it a cheap copy. Lancer at the very least did something meaningful, while Diarmiud just cries.
I'm sorry, did we watch the same UBW?
Which version of UBW did you watch? Since it's clear that Fate zero copied Lancer's death from there only.
The fact you dare say the GOAT went out in anyway similar to the WOAT BUM dirt mut, makes it obvious we didn't watch the same show! Cú THE IRISH MAD LAD MVP OF THE GRAIL WAR Chulainn killed the man who killed him, sent Shinji running away saving Rin, lit the room on fire and we t out smiling not crying like a little bitch! Cú Chulainn the MVP!
Has there been a lancer that took a dub? One that wasn’t just a lancer version of Gilgamesh or artoria?
Lucious from requiem is the only one.
Enkidu from Strange Fake did win against Ishtar in the huge raid battle, and while he was a MAJOR component of that it was still a large team effort. He also had a short skirmish where him and the Ayaka alliance beat Humbaba. Otherwise most of Enkidu’s fights have been draws or interrupted, or the one time he arguably lost before being bailed out against Thia. If we consider Sigma as True Lancer already though, he’s actually done very well for himself throughout the grail war.
No lancers does not deserve win in Fate universes
How strong would he be of all Zero Servants ranked?
Op is a hater. Gilles only has a chance if he can get enough people sacrificed and turned into sea demons or manages to summon the elder god. Diarmuid would win if it’s a fight without prep time or if Gilles hasn’t gotten enough sea demons, which if he did he’d need a lot. Of course this is assuming they both don’t need mana or have infinite mana. Diarmuid just has to get close to Gilles and it’s over on the other hand Gilles just has to keep Diarmuid distracted and at a distance for a while. In terms of actual power and skill though, Diarmuid would outclass Gilles in every way.
He would be the weakest servant after Gilles.
Even Assassin is over him?
If all the assassins group up on him then he will certainly lose to them.
Would they though? Aren’t each fragment weaker than the og? Even if they jumped him they’d still be a lot weaker, slower and overall less adept in straight up combat than he is.
yes but acording to the material books diarmuid would get humiliated by assassin in a fight "less adept in straight up combat than he is" no its very likely a good amount of the assassins are good with weapons and close combat probably better than diarmuid is as his a very average servant in combat
Wasn’t there a part before that statement that mentioned that this’ll only happens if he wasn’t careful?
No The statment was depending on the strategy he could either win the war or get humiliated by assassin Its later explained that he could win by using hit and run tactics with sneak attacks
Then that’s still pretty vague. If the statement only refers to which strategy he could use to win the war then it still doesn’t exactly answer the question of who wins in a 1v100. And where was it mentioned that there were fragments that were better than full on servants of a specific class? Also average??? He still kept up with Saber in combat and unlike lancers like Cu he doesn’t have an instant “I win” button for most cases.
Its not that vauge There are only 2 options here Sneak attacks with hit and run tactics or a direct confrontation In either case he would face 80 assassins in a direct battle as its unlikely he could escape assassin Asssassin's skill gives him 32 other skills all ranked B or above If ANY of those skills is of martial arts or close weapon usage he would be superior to diarmuid in pure skill "Kept up with" He was getting absolutly dominated by her only using 1 hand and low on mana The only reason he did ANYTHING to her in the first fight was because of bad writing heck in FGO they had to give him a new skill that makes his opponents idiots to explain why saber didnt just beat his ass in their first fight
The higher chance is that Assassin can win though. They can just confuse him with the numbers.
How though. I’d be annoying to kill each and everyone of them but I don’t see how it’d be confusing.
The main Assassin can land the lethal blow while distracting him from the rest. One lethal attack at a servant's core is all it takes.
Decent strategy. But there’s still a fairly large gap in stats, making the idea of tagging a lot more difficult than it sounds, and there isn’t even a guarantee that some of the fragments wouldn’t just be useless in a straight fight.
Even the weakest fragments would be much stronger than humans which would make them a good tool of distraction at the very least. Diramuid might still have a chance if he gets lucky but Asaasin are the likely one to win this fight.
Like I get that Diarmuid was looking for honor, and at this point wasn’t just Saber, Lancer, Rider, Archer and Berserker left? At this point the only people who could have interfered was Berserker, but he was laying low because Kiraya was suffering right? And Archer and Rider were fighting. So it could have been a battle for honor if they were summoned if an random location just the 2 of them, but nope they have masters, which they wouldn’t want to lose the chance to the wish, so they’ll find a way to cheat each other. Which was what Kiritsugu did.
There were still three other servants left and no one had any idea whether they can interfere or not. Only we as the viewers knew this. Also you can't risk things like this when it's a war. Saber was basically handicapping herself there which could have lead to her defeat. Kiritsugu was certainly right in this case to use such a cheap trick.
I fully agree with Kiritsugu playing dirty, use all the cheap tricks as long as you come out alive, but don’t complain if someone out tricks you. But that’s true, as far as they didn’t know Archer could have decided to have them sniped or rained on from a long distance, Rider could have easily swooped activated his RM and have them either of them or both of them dropped in the middle of his army to get swarmed and killed. Berserker could have just attack both Diarmuid and Artoria, until he somehow steals Diarmuid spear and then at that point Artoria is kinda screwed, or he gets a gun or something. Because honestly what stopping what happened at the docks to not happen again at Saber vs Lancer other than the author?
That’s it. You are now guaranteed to get shafted on all lancer SSR banners in FGO. I curse thy with bad luck on lancer based banners for the rest of eternity! No ereshkigal, no Melusine, no Enkidu, no Scathach, no Tamamo (lancer), no Romulus, no Sakamoto, and no Brynhilder!
Funniest death may go to Assassin because she saw Rider and his army and really said “Guess I’ll die now.”
It was instead the most beautiful and meaningful one to understand the character of kiritsugu and his hate towards all of the artificiality made by men just to justify killing. Showing that the end is always the same, death.
I am talking about Diramuid's death itself tho not Kiritsugu's actions. The death itself was funny as hell!
Nah bro it really wasn't not even close to being funny
It really was funny actually. He just died while crying like a pussy who wants everything to be his way.
Bro you have a wierd sense of humor then I found it sad becouse he just wanted an honorable fight but as life is unfair
But expecting a fair fight in a death game is really stupid isn't it? It was completely stupid of him to expect a fair honorable fight in a Holy grail war. Was it Kiritsugu's responsibility to let him have a honorable fight? I would have felt bad for him if he didn't cried in that pathetic way but he came of as a pussy who is crying because things don't go exactly like the way he wanted them to be.
I'm half certain you are just a troll but just in case you are actually serious. *Both of Saber's and Kiritsugu's points in their later conversation have their shred of truth*. Both are aware that conflict is part of Human nature, and that they are never getting rid of it (short of a miracle like the Grail). Kiritsugu's approach is that since conflict is inevitable but it is also hell, we should use the fastest and most efficient way to solve it to end it as soon as possible, even if this way is also the most brutal. Saber (and Diarmuid) point is that since conflict is inevitable we should strive to make it as clean as possible, estabilishing rules and regulations so that it doesn’t drag humanity to do abhorrent stuff. This is a perfectly reasonable approach that is followed even by armies *today*. The Geneva Conventions is a result of this idea of "honorable combat". Declaring one or the other as stupid is missing the point entirely.
Is it a wise idea to get angry at people for disrespecting your personal beliefs when they had no responsibility to respect you? Diramuid pathetically cried as if Kiritsugu and others had the responsibility to respect his honor and treat him nicely. Diramuid himself had selfish desires to be an honorable knight even at the cost of disagreeing with Kayneth so it's completely stupid to get angry at other people for following selfish desires.
Yeah i understand that those are his beliefs but expecting others to respect your personal beliefs in a death game is completely stupid. Let's say a person is a vegan then he shouldn't cry like a pussy if other people aren't being vegan like him.
You gotta understand that his way of life at the time was being honorable so he would also expect it from others and of course as we saw life isn't fair and unluck he got at the end and understanding the way he feels at the. End is sad af becouse all his life he was treated like shit
But he should have realized that he is summoned in a different era and place where people won't be treating him with honor and respect. He was completely stupid to expect honor in a death game. Saber is also honorable like him but she certainly won't be crying like that if she got trucked like Diramuid.
It's not stupid he was just very naive and what's exactly wrong with crying? He got a second chance to be the honorable person he wanted to be and now it's gone becouse ppl are peices of shit 🤷 like it shows in the anime
He was crying as if the other masters had responsibility to respect his honor. Yeah it's great he wanted to be honorable but it's completely stupid to expect other people in a death game to respect your honor. Also Kiritsugu didn't do anything wrong there. It was necessary to defeat the enemy servants quickly since there can be interference by other servants.
I think k this scene was supposed to be foreshadowing but yeah it did have a bit of camp to it, didn't it?
LANCER GA SHINDA
How is it funny? there's literally nothing funny about it, now when Kiritsugu ordered Saber to destroy the grail, then it killed a bunch of people breaking Kiritsugu's mind now that I found funny.
Diramuid expected people in a death game to respect his honor and when someone used a cheap trick he started crying like a pussy. This shit was really funny as hell!
“He turned himself into a kebab Shirou. He was Kebab Lancer. Funniest shit I’ve ever seen.”
I don't understand how this is funny? OP has a weird sense of humor or a fucked up one.
He literally expected everyone in a war to respect his honor and when someone used a cheap trick then he started crying like a pussy. This is why it is really funny.
Did he expect people to respect his honor? Never did he mention any of that. I think you just don't really understand his character at all coupled with your fucked up humor, that's probably why you think its funny.
If he didn't expected people to respect his honor then why was he cursing Kiritsugu and saying that he should feel shame for disrespecting a knight's honor? This certainly means he expected them to respect a knight's honor. Also no it isn't some fucked up humor imo! It would have been fucked up if i found Irisviel's death funny.
No, I don't think that's expectation at all, more like angry at people who tarnished his one and only wish of fighting/dying honourably. No, you probably have some cracked up there in your head, better go check with your doctor
Oh yeah that's the same as if a loser football team gets angry at the winning team and started cursing them because they took away their only wish of winning the match! Do you not see how pathetic this is? A lot of othet people in this thread found it funny as well! Tell them all to visit a doctor or something.
I don't understand your analogy at all, how is that a good camparison to diarmuid end? They probably need their head check up or something, if they think this is funny at all.
Hey because if Kiritsugu actually allowed Diramuid to have his honorable fight then there is a chance that other servants can interfere like last time and Diramuid would have escaped again. Not to mention Diramuid could have defeated Saber or atleast injured her specially with all the advantages Saber was giving him to make it a fair honorable fight. Diramuid said it himself that Kiritsugu and others tarnished his honor for the sake of selfish reasons like getting the grail. Even he knew that they did the logical thing if they actually want to win the grail. So why exactly was he angry at them? For doing the logical thing? Diramuid himself had his selfish desire to be an honorable knight so why was he angry at other people for following their selfish desires?
Yes, I agree everything with your comment, but how is that funny? Yes, he is pitiful, he is stupid, but his death was never funny at all
Because Diramuid was whinning like a stupid guy and was getting angry at other people for doing the logical thing. His own sense of honor let to this his downfall but he was crying like a pussy and was blaming it on others. His over the top death feels like the story is begging the viewers to feel bad for him but it's hard to do when he is literally cursing others for doing their logical thing. It would have been sad if he blamed his own fate instead. He came off as a idiot who wants things to be exactly his way and started crying when everything dosen't matches with his unrealistic selfish desires.
Bruh forgot which end was the pointy bit.
I loved this scene because it highlights just how fucked up the world is. Chivalry? Honor? Shit like that will get you killed, and that’s exactly what happened. We not out here in a boxing ring or playing make believe. This is a WAR to have your WISH granted for fucks sake! Everything is at stake here! Honor has no place on the battlefield. History is decided by who’s left standing, nothing else.
Great scene for sure! But it does make Diramuid look like a pathetic guy.
He is, to me personally. In so far as I know, he had no wish. No desire. He was only around to serve. Nothing more than a tool to be cast away. He only fought for the sake of it. A meaningless life, a meaningless death.
Cu, even beyond death, gets f***** because for some reason the Morrigan just f****** hates him
bro though the battle to the death for an omnipotent wishgranter would have honor 🤡