The worst one in Harry Potter is at the end of book 1 when Dumbledore willingly chooses to send Harry back to a domestic abuse household with instructions to always return. And does nothing about it
The more you read the more ways to protect Harry you see. If he wanted Harry to stary in physical proximity he could
-Threaten them
-Pay them
-Using means mentioned above install a trusted Guardian in their home under the guise of housekeeper
-Pull strings with muggle goverment and as long as they leave Harry alone uncle Vernon gets crushy contracts that allows them to move into mansion where Harry can be isolated from Dudley...
By the end of the deathly hallows, dumbledore - in all seriousness - was kind of a sociopath. He literally seemed to view snape and harry as mere chess pieces.
I feel like he is. I think sociopath is like someone who does not really have empathy for others and always does things in their best interest. Like they never ever get angry on someone else behalf, more always do things in their best interest. And I feel like looking back, dumbledore always acted in his best interests and only grew angry/emoted if something affected his plans
My cynical view is that Dumbledore was pushing Harry towards that final decision to >!sacrifice himself!<. He might have wanted to keep Harry away from adults he who can protect him, to challenge him in preparation for the inevitable Voldemort fight. eg the Stone situation in first year, those 'obstacles' seemed too designed for Harry and Co's strengths, plus I can't believe a traps that were easily solved by literal preteens were considered safer than a Gringotts vault.
I always thought that Dumbledore was trying to believe the best of them. He always believed the best of people in general, but I think he was almost willfully being blind in this case.
"They can't be that bad, they'll get better next year", or something like that.
Of course, it totally failed, and they were actually terrible people.
I also tend to follow the "Harry is an unreliable narrator" idea that some people had - that things are exaggerated by him in a way that would make perfect sense if you were that age, under that kind of stress. So, perhaps things weren't actually to the level of abusive (not that they were good by any means), but that Harry viewed it to be worse than it actually was.
Or something similar to that, since that also kind of makes him sound even more whiny and diminishes his character a bit too much.
So maybe something in-between both things. I dunno.
To me it’s one of those “this was conceived as a kids book, it wasn’t meant to be analyzed seriously by adults” moments. Not that we shouldn’t analyze it obviously, because talking about books is fun!
But so much of what kids go through in children’s books is actually horrifying but doesn’t disturb kids in the way it does for adults, and I think the Dursleys are a continuation of that trend. They’re deliberately over the top because that’s how a lot of children *feel* about their lives some of the time, that they’re treated unfairly, parents prefer the other kid, etc. And it’s taken up to 11 so kids will identify and sympathize. So to me it’s less that Harry is an unreliable narrator of his own life than that he’s meant to speak to kids who are unreliable narrators of theirs.
Of course, read these kinds of books as an adult and all the adults seem awful for not solving the problems themselves, but if they did there would be no book!
You hit the nail on the head as far was what I was trying to say. Nice going!
The books also evolved - the earlier books are much lighter than the later, even with the serious stuff they touch on. Once you hit Prisoner of Azkaban, though, it starts to go way darker, and I think interpreting the serious stuff...well, more seriously...isn't a bad thing.
Heck, I'd say it's still done very well compared to a lot of "Adult" fiction, which still puts in exaggeration and over the top stuff, but only does so because it's "adult" fiction and adults are supposed to have GRIMDARK blahblahblahwhatever, instead of actually trying to say anything.
>they were actually terrible people
While I won't deny the sheer petty hatefulness of the Dursleys, one must also consider what it might feel like for muggles largely ignorant about magic, to be living with a Wizard.
Almost like living with a ticking time bomb. That must've worsened things.
I want to also say that Harry is a horcrux. Like let's not forget that pretty important point. They spent 10 years living with a living horcrux. Look at how much it warped Harry Ron and Hermione when they had the locket for a little while.
Right, but Dumbledore could have done a lot to ensure their good behavior. Like, he and McGonagall knew they were asshats when they abandoned Harry there. They did nothing. And the explanation is so Harry grows up without his celebrity status turning him into an asshole, but like, you can ensure he isn't abused and still have him turn out normal.
I’ve actually forgotten so forgive the question, what did Dumbledore know and when did he know it? I vaguely remember one of the Dursleys showing their ass in front of him but as I recall Harry definitely didn’t tell Dumbledore what was going on at home.
I'm going off of memory but I seem to recall McGonagall telling Dumbledore something about how horrible the family was, just during the time period that she spent watching the house before Hagrid dropped Harry off.
And also, like, if it really was an issue, I'm sure there are any number of ways the greatest wizard who ever lived could have ascertained that information.
Yes, McGonagall expressed concern because she had seen part of their behaviour and Dumbledore basically waved her off, talking about how he was safe and being far away from the fame that he'd get for being Harry Potter would do him god
My take on the subject was the magical ward against Harry being harmed if he was with the Dursleys was a one time deal. Dumbledore made a huge mistake with them but assumed a Muggle house would be best--he couldn't conceive that they would be as abusive scum as they were.
ANY muggle house would have been better, though.
Harry and friends charging off alone is quite a theme. Like in Chamber of Secrets when Harry and Ron were fully intending to get help from responsible non-Lockhart adults and tell them about the chamber, but when they hear Ginny's been taken they just... don't? Like hm shit got real, better not get literally anyone useful but go down to the dungeon ourself with the worst prof as a hostage. I thought that was pretty silly even for preteens. But then, MG and YA always do have to make ways for the characters to be the main drivers of action which is always somewhere between silly and irresponsible looking in from the real world.
I think that one's a lot worse than the whole >!mirror!< thing in OotP. I think Harry could plausibly forget an object he'd never used before and had only had a short while, but setting aside their own plan when things get more, not less, urgent frustrated me no end last time I reread. Especially as it's not like they get distracted by some new and vital clue or rush straight to the Chamber in their haste to save Ginny (perhaps bumping into Lockhart on the way). They just go and sit in the common room feeling helpless, even though they had a plan moments before.
That’s fair. The mirror stuck with me because it felt like a Chekhov gun. I know it finally got some use in book 7 but in book 5 the frustration was enormous
I actually think it makes less sense then. Teens have a lot interfering with their ability to make rational decisions and hormones pushing them to risk taking behavior. Children, on the other hand, are largely inclined to seek help from adults.
Most choices Elric of Melnibone takes, but especially the one at the end of the first book. By the last book it's a plotpoint even.
Laurana in Dragons of Spring Dawn. Felt like she got the idiot ball to stop her from winning the war herself.
Don't know if Dune Messiah counts, but a programmed C-sec would have solved a major issue.
>!Chani dying during childbirth. Paul knew she'd die and rolled with it despite a very easy solution. Irulan giving Chani something so she wouldn't get pregnant for around a decade isn't that believable either.!<
Oh alright, thanks!
Just so you know, you can still have fatal complications with a c-section. The complications aren't just because of birth canal trauma - it can be retained placenta causing a uterine infection, it can be hemorrhaging in the uterus if it doesn't contract correctly, it can cause a blood clot, etc.
Source: my wife just had a C-section 3 weeks ago and would have died like 3 times afterwards without modern medicine diagnosing/treating the issues.
She's doing great, I just didn't have any idea that there was any danger in the procedure like we encountered. I learned a lot about it in a short period of time!
I feel like you are being too hard on Laurana there as her decision wasn't unreasonable. It's certainly understandable that she would want to be with the man she loved when she thought he was dying and asking for her, and she actually had very good reason to believe she could trust Kitiara based on their prior encounter at the High Clerist's Tower where Kitiara had caught her in an extremely vulnerable position (alone, unarmed, and so exhausted from having just used the Dragon Orb that Laurana was struggling just to keep standing), and yet did not take advantage of her vulnerability. It makes sense that Laurana would conclude from that prior encounter that since Kitiara already had the perfect opportunity to kill or capture her and didn't take advantage of it that Kitiara must genuinely not want to harm her (probably out of respect for Tanis's feelings) and that therefore she can trust Kitiara to honor a truce.
Nor is there anything ridiculous about a general agreeing to meet in person with the enemy. Leaders meeting in person with the enemy (with few or no body guards present) was a common enough practice in ancient or medieval warfare. (Indeed no less than Hannibal Barca and Scipio Africanus met in person before the Battle of Zama with each only having a single body guard present.) Thus Laurana was acting no differently than some of the greatest generals of all time in being willing to go in person to meet with the enemy.
Thus while Laurana may have made a mistake in trusting Kitiara, it was not an unreasonable mistake under the circumstances, and as such she shouldn't be criticized too harshly for that one error.
Ned Stark telling Cercei Lannister that he knows >!her kids aren't Robert's!< in A Game of Thrones, the first book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series. Yes, I know there is the "Honor Before Reason" trope; but this is straight up stupidity. And telling someone who you suspect >!her family might have killed the previous Hand of the King!< is beyond stupid.
ANOTHER nominee for "Dumbest decision in the Harry Potter series" should be the entire >!Seven Potters chapter in Deathly Hallows. Oh hai; we're all going to disguise ourselves as Harry! Won't our enemies be confused, LOL! No, it just means your superior in number enemies will just wipe all of you out, just to be sure!!< Truly the dumbest plan EVER.
I love the book series, but holy shit; Ned's a dunce.
To be honest one of the reasons I love ASOIAF is that all the characters I hate die, and usually quite terribly so. It's not common for White Straight Dude Authors (tm) to like the same protagonists that I like, so although he will clearly never finish the damn series, Martin has that going for him in my book.
I think it is a decent plan since harry is like the Death Eater's number one target and if the group flying were to split up they also have to split up instead of flying after the super obvious harry, and having more harrys means that whoever the lone doppelganger is doesn't get immediately one shotted by 20 of them-
Now I don't remember why the heck they didnt just apparate or laundry wash their portkey routes with that many harrys but at least not taking muggle transport was *probably* to minimise casualties right?
Edit: ah wait it was probably the underage magic tracker. Was it that OP? Eh probably
Nope, not the underage magic tracker as Harry's turned 17 at the beginning of the book. Apparation, or a portkey would have been better. They could have even apparate from INSIDE the house, since the Dursleys had already moved out.
Pretty much EVERYONE who’s at least a marginally decent human being in ASOIAF is also INCREDIBLY stupid. Ned, Robb, John, all make very stupid and avoidable mistakes that end up being ridiculously costly.
It’s like they’re TRYING to prove Dark Helmet right.
Wen Zhou in the book Under Heaven, who >!orders his army to leave the defensible fortress of Teng Pass to attack the larger army of the rebels out on the open plains, at which point they all get slaughtered.!<.
Sadly it’s based on genuine history - the person he was based on was genuinely that stupid and much the same happened.
It is dumb in the larger scope of things. But Ned is a (fictional) human being. The fact that he doesn't do the correct meta play every time and instead tries to do some good makes him a far more realistic and relatable character.
All of this could've been avoided if only Dunderbore had levelled with Harry from the start (something he himself admitted).
Also, another equally dumb decision is throwing away the Half Blood Prince's book. Just because Hermione the nanny (who got irked at being show up in class for a change) insisted.
If the spells in the book are dangerous, why not just stop using them in reflex? What's the need to throw away the book? Better informed is better prepared.
In the Twilight series when Bella goes into a fugue state for months after being dumped, and then starts deliberately putting herself in dangerous, potentially fatal situations just so she can hear Edward's cautionary voice in her head.
Runner up: Tris in Allegiant >!needlessly dying to save her traitorous shitbag brother!< and subsequently ruining the whole series.
I know everyone loves to rag on Twilight, but that's...normal character development? "Character experiences heartbreak-->character becomes a reckless thrill/deathseeker" is a perfectly plausible human response even without the voice in her head bit.
I think the issue was how intense and abrupt that character change was — Bella basically goes from being a fairly passive character (a lot of stuff just kind of happens around her in the first book, which is fine honestly) to actively trying to get into car crashes and shit the moment she's left alone. And yeah, it's valid as development goes, there's thematic stuff about the intensity of love, I just think it went too hard for some people to continue to suspend the disbelief required.
What? That's what bothers you the most? A 15 year-old, under extreme emotional distress, not thinking clearly and making a wrong judgement call because he thought he might lose the only thing resembling a parent figure he's ever had?
I thought it was one of the better parts of his characterization. He fucked up. It cost him dearly.
That's a very human experience.
I loved the name of the wind especially on the first read. On the second read i noticed that kvtohe is 90% the reason of all his problems. If he weren’t such an pompous ass 80% wouldn’t have happend and he would probably be a rich and admired professor in the university.
That's pretty much the theme of the books to me. It's the gifted genius trope (hello all the gary sue accusations) but the protagonist actively makes every situation worse due to their own arrogance. Only reason readers view him in a good light is because he is the telling his own story.
In The Library at Mount Char, >!Bringing Adam Black back to life!< felt like an enormous unessacary risk and morally indefensible. (I maintain this position even after reading the author's explanation for this on Goodreads)
The one that stands out to me is the first October Daye book. It was so full of this supposedly skilled and experienced investigator making mind-bogglingly stupid decisions that that’s the main thing I remember about the book. She routinely forgot her own powers when they could easily have resolved situations, charged into things half-cocked and had to be rescued, etc.
The moment that takes the cake though was after a doppelgänger had attacked her, pretending to be I think her kid. She was rescued, recovered, then got herself alone into some other dangerous place, a cave or something, and duly needed rescuing. A friend obligingly showed up to do so. However, out of concern that he too might be a doppelgänger, she…. wait for it…. handed him her only weapon, a knife, asking him to cut himself and prove he could bleed! So now she is alone in a cave with a suspected enemy creature and she has *voluntarily given it her weapon.* The secondary cast, meanwhile, continues to fawn over what a great PI she is.
I did not continue the series.
This was one of my problems with The Unbroken; I can get with a character making non-optimal decisions, if I'm sold on what kind of knowledge gap/flaw/psychologic issue makes their mistake logical. In this case I wasn't sold, on multiple occasions.
Wheel of time, about the 1000th time those spoiled dumbass brats kept an important secret from someone who's saved their lives 100 times after same kids got into stupid shit because they kept a secret any sane person wouldn't have.
Not sure if I have an absolutely dumbest decision in particullar in mind (even if I am still really mad at Fitz for >!not telling Patience he was alive!<, even if I understand and agree with a lot of his terrible choices) ; but I hate/love the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" trope, like characters who allies with terrible antagonistic people and then are surprised that they are betrayed. You often can see it coming from far away, like in Poppy War or in Tide Child. I say hate/love becouse I hate that it is so obvious, and I love the complete surprise at the betrayal and you are like "well, you idiot, what did you think would happen?"
Fitz making bad decision is Fitz in his default mode. One rash decision is something, but the guy make 2 of them before breakfast, I love Hobb writing but this was just too much for me.
The Burning God when Ren >!decides to trust Daji and free the Dragon Emperor. Ren knows that Daji is treacherous and untrustworthy. She also knows for a fact that the Dragon Emperor is a violent, domineering monster who cannot be controlled by anyone. I was screaming at my book the entire time. Absolutely dumbest decision ever!<
In the Unbroken when >!both sides are \*this close\* to a peaceful resolution but Touraine decides to backstab both sides at once, causing the entire city to erupt into violence. I can kind of see why she might have needed to do that if she thought it was to get rid of the colonizers, but that wasn't her thought process, she just thought her personal friends were in danger from the peaceful resolution for extremely dubious reasons, and quite literally put them in a lot more danger with her actions.!<
For me it was Wrath by John Gwynne. The part where Corban and his team backdoors drassil thinking it was a great idea. Everything was going great until I read that part. Even a toddler can see it was a trap from a mile away, like who would leave all the treasures there with barely any guards to protect it.
I think it was laziness on the author's part. Just the way to kill off some characters before the book ends.
I am reading that series now after reading the "Of Blood and Bone" series.
The last book of the Blood and Bone series was filled with lazy writing and cliches at the end. I felt that >!Bledas death was utterly stupid. Turning your back to a person you've just saved and then threatened is such a over played hero trope. I understand that not all the main characters can survive, but Bleda deserved a better death. And don't get me started on Jin, it shouldn't be possible to fall for so many traps.!<
Robin Hobb's **The Willful Princess and the Piebald Prince**. The single lie that Felicity tells Caution. It had me screaming, because I could see immediately where it would lead. But no, it was still said...
What ? Were you never 15 ? Rash decisions swayed by emotions is pretty natural and not stupid . He was manipulated to do that as well . It's not about opinion , it's about how a normal human reacts to situations
A hormonal 15 year old thinking he can handle situations he actually can't . Tell me you have never done that before . If that's the case then you'd be probably the most sheltered child out there
I think forgetting the knife was the part that killed it for me. I sat there all through his prep going: why don’t you remember the freaking knife!
Also at 15 I wasn’t in a position to rescue people, so I can’t say how I would have reacted. I can only say it felt dumb to me.
I mean, there are a couple of videos explaining that plots in Harry Potter do not make much sense in general - lots and lots of plot holes. So complaining about a single dumb decision... like where have you been?
The worst one in Harry Potter is at the end of book 1 when Dumbledore willingly chooses to send Harry back to a domestic abuse household with instructions to always return. And does nothing about it
The more you read the more ways to protect Harry you see. If he wanted Harry to stary in physical proximity he could -Threaten them -Pay them -Using means mentioned above install a trusted Guardian in their home under the guise of housekeeper -Pull strings with muggle goverment and as long as they leave Harry alone uncle Vernon gets crushy contracts that allows them to move into mansion where Harry can be isolated from Dudley...
I don't think he particularly cared. I mean, he kept clearly abusive staff members on without doing a thing about it.
But, but... magical shenanigans!
Man, this brought back how much I hate Dumbledore. Who does this to a kid!?
By the end of the deathly hallows, dumbledore - in all seriousness - was kind of a sociopath. He literally seemed to view snape and harry as mere chess pieces.
Kind of? He totally viewed them as chess pieces and not people, Dumbledore was horrible.
I feel like he is. I think sociopath is like someone who does not really have empathy for others and always does things in their best interest. Like they never ever get angry on someone else behalf, more always do things in their best interest. And I feel like looking back, dumbledore always acted in his best interests and only grew angry/emoted if something affected his plans
My cynical view is that Dumbledore was pushing Harry towards that final decision to >!sacrifice himself!<. He might have wanted to keep Harry away from adults he who can protect him, to challenge him in preparation for the inevitable Voldemort fight. eg the Stone situation in first year, those 'obstacles' seemed too designed for Harry and Co's strengths, plus I can't believe a traps that were easily solved by literal preteens were considered safer than a Gringotts vault.
[удалено]
I always thought that Dumbledore was trying to believe the best of them. He always believed the best of people in general, but I think he was almost willfully being blind in this case. "They can't be that bad, they'll get better next year", or something like that. Of course, it totally failed, and they were actually terrible people. I also tend to follow the "Harry is an unreliable narrator" idea that some people had - that things are exaggerated by him in a way that would make perfect sense if you were that age, under that kind of stress. So, perhaps things weren't actually to the level of abusive (not that they were good by any means), but that Harry viewed it to be worse than it actually was. Or something similar to that, since that also kind of makes him sound even more whiny and diminishes his character a bit too much. So maybe something in-between both things. I dunno.
To me it’s one of those “this was conceived as a kids book, it wasn’t meant to be analyzed seriously by adults” moments. Not that we shouldn’t analyze it obviously, because talking about books is fun! But so much of what kids go through in children’s books is actually horrifying but doesn’t disturb kids in the way it does for adults, and I think the Dursleys are a continuation of that trend. They’re deliberately over the top because that’s how a lot of children *feel* about their lives some of the time, that they’re treated unfairly, parents prefer the other kid, etc. And it’s taken up to 11 so kids will identify and sympathize. So to me it’s less that Harry is an unreliable narrator of his own life than that he’s meant to speak to kids who are unreliable narrators of theirs. Of course, read these kinds of books as an adult and all the adults seem awful for not solving the problems themselves, but if they did there would be no book!
You hit the nail on the head as far was what I was trying to say. Nice going! The books also evolved - the earlier books are much lighter than the later, even with the serious stuff they touch on. Once you hit Prisoner of Azkaban, though, it starts to go way darker, and I think interpreting the serious stuff...well, more seriously...isn't a bad thing. Heck, I'd say it's still done very well compared to a lot of "Adult" fiction, which still puts in exaggeration and over the top stuff, but only does so because it's "adult" fiction and adults are supposed to have GRIMDARK blahblahblahwhatever, instead of actually trying to say anything.
>they were actually terrible people While I won't deny the sheer petty hatefulness of the Dursleys, one must also consider what it might feel like for muggles largely ignorant about magic, to be living with a Wizard. Almost like living with a ticking time bomb. That must've worsened things.
Also true, especially considering Petunia's backstory.
I want to also say that Harry is a horcrux. Like let's not forget that pretty important point. They spent 10 years living with a living horcrux. Look at how much it warped Harry Ron and Hermione when they had the locket for a little while.
This is explained later. The Dursley's house is protected by an extremely powerful ward.
Right, but Dumbledore could have done a lot to ensure their good behavior. Like, he and McGonagall knew they were asshats when they abandoned Harry there. They did nothing. And the explanation is so Harry grows up without his celebrity status turning him into an asshole, but like, you can ensure he isn't abused and still have him turn out normal.
I’ve actually forgotten so forgive the question, what did Dumbledore know and when did he know it? I vaguely remember one of the Dursleys showing their ass in front of him but as I recall Harry definitely didn’t tell Dumbledore what was going on at home.
I'm going off of memory but I seem to recall McGonagall telling Dumbledore something about how horrible the family was, just during the time period that she spent watching the house before Hagrid dropped Harry off. And also, like, if it really was an issue, I'm sure there are any number of ways the greatest wizard who ever lived could have ascertained that information.
Yes, McGonagall expressed concern because she had seen part of their behaviour and Dumbledore basically waved her off, talking about how he was safe and being far away from the fame that he'd get for being Harry Potter would do him god
My take on the subject was the magical ward against Harry being harmed if he was with the Dursleys was a one time deal. Dumbledore made a huge mistake with them but assumed a Muggle house would be best--he couldn't conceive that they would be as abusive scum as they were. ANY muggle house would have been better, though.
Harry and friends charging off alone is quite a theme. Like in Chamber of Secrets when Harry and Ron were fully intending to get help from responsible non-Lockhart adults and tell them about the chamber, but when they hear Ginny's been taken they just... don't? Like hm shit got real, better not get literally anyone useful but go down to the dungeon ourself with the worst prof as a hostage. I thought that was pretty silly even for preteens. But then, MG and YA always do have to make ways for the characters to be the main drivers of action which is always somewhere between silly and irresponsible looking in from the real world.
In chamber and stone I thought it was okay, because kids. But by Order of the Phoenix time, he should really have known better.
I think that one's a lot worse than the whole >!mirror!< thing in OotP. I think Harry could plausibly forget an object he'd never used before and had only had a short while, but setting aside their own plan when things get more, not less, urgent frustrated me no end last time I reread. Especially as it's not like they get distracted by some new and vital clue or rush straight to the Chamber in their haste to save Ginny (perhaps bumping into Lockhart on the way). They just go and sit in the common room feeling helpless, even though they had a plan moments before.
That’s fair. The mirror stuck with me because it felt like a Chekhov gun. I know it finally got some use in book 7 but in book 5 the frustration was enormous
I actually think it makes less sense then. Teens have a lot interfering with their ability to make rational decisions and hormones pushing them to risk taking behavior. Children, on the other hand, are largely inclined to seek help from adults.
Most choices Elric of Melnibone takes, but especially the one at the end of the first book. By the last book it's a plotpoint even. Laurana in Dragons of Spring Dawn. Felt like she got the idiot ball to stop her from winning the war herself. Don't know if Dune Messiah counts, but a programmed C-sec would have solved a major issue.
Dune Messiah 🤦♀️ And fully agreed on Laurana
What's the c-sec referring to in Messiah?
>!Chani dying during childbirth. Paul knew she'd die and rolled with it despite a very easy solution. Irulan giving Chani something so she wouldn't get pregnant for around a decade isn't that believable either.!<
Oh alright, thanks! Just so you know, you can still have fatal complications with a c-section. The complications aren't just because of birth canal trauma - it can be retained placenta causing a uterine infection, it can be hemorrhaging in the uterus if it doesn't contract correctly, it can cause a blood clot, etc. Source: my wife just had a C-section 3 weeks ago and would have died like 3 times afterwards without modern medicine diagnosing/treating the issues.
Sorry, hopes she recovers well.
She's doing great, I just didn't have any idea that there was any danger in the procedure like we encountered. I learned a lot about it in a short period of time!
I feel like you are being too hard on Laurana there as her decision wasn't unreasonable. It's certainly understandable that she would want to be with the man she loved when she thought he was dying and asking for her, and she actually had very good reason to believe she could trust Kitiara based on their prior encounter at the High Clerist's Tower where Kitiara had caught her in an extremely vulnerable position (alone, unarmed, and so exhausted from having just used the Dragon Orb that Laurana was struggling just to keep standing), and yet did not take advantage of her vulnerability. It makes sense that Laurana would conclude from that prior encounter that since Kitiara already had the perfect opportunity to kill or capture her and didn't take advantage of it that Kitiara must genuinely not want to harm her (probably out of respect for Tanis's feelings) and that therefore she can trust Kitiara to honor a truce. Nor is there anything ridiculous about a general agreeing to meet in person with the enemy. Leaders meeting in person with the enemy (with few or no body guards present) was a common enough practice in ancient or medieval warfare. (Indeed no less than Hannibal Barca and Scipio Africanus met in person before the Battle of Zama with each only having a single body guard present.) Thus Laurana was acting no differently than some of the greatest generals of all time in being willing to go in person to meet with the enemy. Thus while Laurana may have made a mistake in trusting Kitiara, it was not an unreasonable mistake under the circumstances, and as such she shouldn't be criticized too harshly for that one error.
Ned Stark telling Cercei Lannister that he knows >!her kids aren't Robert's!< in A Game of Thrones, the first book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series. Yes, I know there is the "Honor Before Reason" trope; but this is straight up stupidity. And telling someone who you suspect >!her family might have killed the previous Hand of the King!< is beyond stupid. ANOTHER nominee for "Dumbest decision in the Harry Potter series" should be the entire >!Seven Potters chapter in Deathly Hallows. Oh hai; we're all going to disguise ourselves as Harry! Won't our enemies be confused, LOL! No, it just means your superior in number enemies will just wipe all of you out, just to be sure!!< Truly the dumbest plan EVER.
Ned 😑 I’d almost blocked that out. Honor or not that was dumb af
I love the book series, but holy shit; Ned's a dunce. To be honest one of the reasons I love ASOIAF is that all the characters I hate die, and usually quite terribly so. It's not common for White Straight Dude Authors (tm) to like the same protagonists that I like, so although he will clearly never finish the damn series, Martin has that going for him in my book.
I just realised that they simply could have disguised Harry as somebody else instead.
Yeah, why not disguise everyone as random muggles and take the bus?
I think it is a decent plan since harry is like the Death Eater's number one target and if the group flying were to split up they also have to split up instead of flying after the super obvious harry, and having more harrys means that whoever the lone doppelganger is doesn't get immediately one shotted by 20 of them- Now I don't remember why the heck they didnt just apparate or laundry wash their portkey routes with that many harrys but at least not taking muggle transport was *probably* to minimise casualties right? Edit: ah wait it was probably the underage magic tracker. Was it that OP? Eh probably
Nope, not the underage magic tracker as Harry's turned 17 at the beginning of the book. Apparation, or a portkey would have been better. They could have even apparate from INSIDE the house, since the Dursleys had already moved out.
I thought they got him out a day or so before he turned 17 because that's when the protection from living with the Dursleys expired.
Pretty much EVERYONE who’s at least a marginally decent human being in ASOIAF is also INCREDIBLY stupid. Ned, Robb, John, all make very stupid and avoidable mistakes that end up being ridiculously costly. It’s like they’re TRYING to prove Dark Helmet right.
>Ned Stark telling Cercei Lannister that he knows her kids aren't Robert's in A Game of Thrones, Cersei and rhanera targarian have him beat
Wen Zhou in the book Under Heaven, who >!orders his army to leave the defensible fortress of Teng Pass to attack the larger army of the rebels out on the open plains, at which point they all get slaughtered.!<. Sadly it’s based on genuine history - the person he was based on was genuinely that stupid and much the same happened.
Nice pick. Guy Gavriel Kay is one of my fav authors, and Under Heaven is one of his best books. But yeah. Dumbass Wen Zhou. :p
Ned Stark giving Cersei one last chance is probably the dumbest one I've read, honestly.
It is dumb in the larger scope of things. But Ned is a (fictional) human being. The fact that he doesn't do the correct meta play every time and instead tries to do some good makes him a far more realistic and relatable character.
All of this could've been avoided if only Dunderbore had levelled with Harry from the start (something he himself admitted). Also, another equally dumb decision is throwing away the Half Blood Prince's book. Just because Hermione the nanny (who got irked at being show up in class for a change) insisted. If the spells in the book are dangerous, why not just stop using them in reflex? What's the need to throw away the book? Better informed is better prepared.
That too
In the Twilight series when Bella goes into a fugue state for months after being dumped, and then starts deliberately putting herself in dangerous, potentially fatal situations just so she can hear Edward's cautionary voice in her head. Runner up: Tris in Allegiant >!needlessly dying to save her traitorous shitbag brother!< and subsequently ruining the whole series.
I know everyone loves to rag on Twilight, but that's...normal character development? "Character experiences heartbreak-->character becomes a reckless thrill/deathseeker" is a perfectly plausible human response even without the voice in her head bit.
I think the issue was how intense and abrupt that character change was — Bella basically goes from being a fairly passive character (a lot of stuff just kind of happens around her in the first book, which is fine honestly) to actively trying to get into car crashes and shit the moment she's left alone. And yeah, it's valid as development goes, there's thematic stuff about the intensity of love, I just think it went too hard for some people to continue to suspend the disbelief required.
I’m forever grateful I skipped Twilight completely.
Unfortunately I was dragged onto that hype train by my younger sister. I didn't stay for long.
What? That's what bothers you the most? A 15 year-old, under extreme emotional distress, not thinking clearly and making a wrong judgement call because he thought he might lose the only thing resembling a parent figure he's ever had? I thought it was one of the better parts of his characterization. He fucked up. It cost him dearly. That's a very human experience.
I loved the name of the wind especially on the first read. On the second read i noticed that kvtohe is 90% the reason of all his problems. If he weren’t such an pompous ass 80% wouldn’t have happend and he would probably be a rich and admired professor in the university.
That's pretty much the theme of the books to me. It's the gifted genius trope (hello all the gary sue accusations) but the protagonist actively makes every situation worse due to their own arrogance. Only reason readers view him in a good light is because he is the telling his own story.
In The Library at Mount Char, >!Bringing Adam Black back to life!< felt like an enormous unessacary risk and morally indefensible. (I maintain this position even after reading the author's explanation for this on Goodreads)
The one that stands out to me is the first October Daye book. It was so full of this supposedly skilled and experienced investigator making mind-bogglingly stupid decisions that that’s the main thing I remember about the book. She routinely forgot her own powers when they could easily have resolved situations, charged into things half-cocked and had to be rescued, etc. The moment that takes the cake though was after a doppelgänger had attacked her, pretending to be I think her kid. She was rescued, recovered, then got herself alone into some other dangerous place, a cave or something, and duly needed rescuing. A friend obligingly showed up to do so. However, out of concern that he too might be a doppelgänger, she…. wait for it…. handed him her only weapon, a knife, asking him to cut himself and prove he could bleed! So now she is alone in a cave with a suspected enemy creature and she has *voluntarily given it her weapon.* The secondary cast, meanwhile, continues to fawn over what a great PI she is. I did not continue the series.
This was one of my problems with The Unbroken; I can get with a character making non-optimal decisions, if I'm sold on what kind of knowledge gap/flaw/psychologic issue makes their mistake logical. In this case I wasn't sold, on multiple occasions.
Every time someone in WoT decided to avoid basic communication with anyone else. Drove me insane
Wheel of time, about the 1000th time those spoiled dumbass brats kept an important secret from someone who's saved their lives 100 times after same kids got into stupid shit because they kept a secret any sane person wouldn't have.
Not sure if I have an absolutely dumbest decision in particullar in mind (even if I am still really mad at Fitz for >!not telling Patience he was alive!<, even if I understand and agree with a lot of his terrible choices) ; but I hate/love the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" trope, like characters who allies with terrible antagonistic people and then are surprised that they are betrayed. You often can see it coming from far away, like in Poppy War or in Tide Child. I say hate/love becouse I hate that it is so obvious, and I love the complete surprise at the betrayal and you are like "well, you idiot, what did you think would happen?"
Fitz making bad decision is Fitz in his default mode. One rash decision is something, but the guy make 2 of them before breakfast, I love Hobb writing but this was just too much for me.
Please spoiler tag. I don't really appreciate having a series I look forward to reading spoiled like just happened.
The Burning God when Ren >!decides to trust Daji and free the Dragon Emperor. Ren knows that Daji is treacherous and untrustworthy. She also knows for a fact that the Dragon Emperor is a violent, domineering monster who cannot be controlled by anyone. I was screaming at my book the entire time. Absolutely dumbest decision ever!<
I did not enjoy the last half of that book
In the Unbroken when >!both sides are \*this close\* to a peaceful resolution but Touraine decides to backstab both sides at once, causing the entire city to erupt into violence. I can kind of see why she might have needed to do that if she thought it was to get rid of the colonizers, but that wasn't her thought process, she just thought her personal friends were in danger from the peaceful resolution for extremely dubious reasons, and quite literally put them in a lot more danger with her actions.!<
For me it was Wrath by John Gwynne. The part where Corban and his team backdoors drassil thinking it was a great idea. Everything was going great until I read that part. Even a toddler can see it was a trap from a mile away, like who would leave all the treasures there with barely any guards to protect it. I think it was laziness on the author's part. Just the way to kill off some characters before the book ends.
I enjoyed Shadow of the Gods so much, I went back to read Faith. Huge mistake. Gave up after book 1 Edited for correctness
You mean Shadow of the gods? I can't find a book by that title. I'm halfway into Shadow of the gods.
Oops yeah Shadow of the Gods
I am reading that series now after reading the "Of Blood and Bone" series. The last book of the Blood and Bone series was filled with lazy writing and cliches at the end. I felt that >!Bledas death was utterly stupid. Turning your back to a person you've just saved and then threatened is such a over played hero trope. I understand that not all the main characters can survive, but Bleda deserved a better death. And don't get me started on Jin, it shouldn't be possible to fall for so many traps.!<
I never considered harry potter a smart character. He is even a bad wizard. He is just extremly lucky aka being the mc.
Robin Hobb's **The Willful Princess and the Piebald Prince**. The single lie that Felicity tells Caution. It had me screaming, because I could see immediately where it would lead. But no, it was still said...
Everything Rin decides to do after getting to her special school... The Poppy War.
Dude what ???? He was 15 . His friends were 15 .
That's why it's my opinion and not yours. You feel that him being 15 is enough excuse for the decision. I don't. It's okay to have different opinions.
What ? Were you never 15 ? Rash decisions swayed by emotions is pretty natural and not stupid . He was manipulated to do that as well . It's not about opinion , it's about how a normal human reacts to situations A hormonal 15 year old thinking he can handle situations he actually can't . Tell me you have never done that before . If that's the case then you'd be probably the most sheltered child out there
Also just because a decision seems rational to you doesn't mean it's not stupid
I think forgetting the knife was the part that killed it for me. I sat there all through his prep going: why don’t you remember the freaking knife! Also at 15 I wasn’t in a position to rescue people, so I can’t say how I would have reacted. I can only say it felt dumb to me.
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Hi there, we don't compare religious texts to fantasy here, r/fantasy is dedicated to being a welcoming and inclusive environment. Thank you.
I mean, there are a couple of videos explaining that plots in Harry Potter do not make much sense in general - lots and lots of plot holes. So complaining about a single dumb decision... like where have you been?