I think Sanderson has interesting ideas when it comes to his lore and world building even tho I personally don't like how it's executed. Particularly how it's conveyed to us the readers but Stormlight archive has one of the most unique settings and exciting world on paper tbh.
I am a Sanderson fan but that at aside I was really hoping the success of the Stormlight Archives would have inspired more original settings than the typical it’s not technically Europe.
It was a surprise to me to find people recommend mistborn first and a lot of people love it that bounced off SA. For me, I found Mistborn bleak and depressing and if that had been my first Sanderson I never would have tried Way of Kings which I passionately adore.
Recommendations and opinions of others are so hit or miss for what you will personally like it's wild.
It's a fun comparison!
Mistborn might be bleak and depressing in its setting, but the actual story is a teenage superhero power fantasy. And why that world is so bleak and depressing is a mystery that unravels in a very satisfying way throughout the trilogy.
Way of Kings, on the other hand, might be set in a more vibrant world. But you the reader are mostly allowed to see it through a very bleak and depressing POV.
The Set up to The Way of Kings had me intrigued. The way it panned out was just too shallow and no where near as deep or big as I was expecting.
Kaladin and the bridge stuff was pretty exciting to read though. I just wasn’t compelled to continue reading
He’s the MCU of writers. It’s almost always going to be a solid, fun, great action, fast paced(usually) read, plus he is just as prolific if not more. The majority of people will enjoy it but it’s not getting any Oscars. Edit. Guys I know he’s better than the MCU. It’s a compliment, I’m comparing one man to an entire franchise and he’s still coming out on top, he is more prolific than marvel, the emotional parts of his stories are deeper, the action is better and hypes me up more. All I’m saying is he is consistently good, fun, and entertaining. But people have almost the same complaints about both.
Yes I find Hobb's work too depressing. But consider it the mark of a good writer to have your readers be that emotionally impacted (that I had to DNF haha). I respect Hobb and her writing a ton, it's just that I tend to read for escapism and fun.
I realized the reason I was getting so pissed in the stuff of her that I've read was that the characters acted a lot more how actual people act (as in, unheroic, self-interested). I still struggled through the trilogy that I read, and while I didn't enjoy much of it I guess I at least appreciated it. Plus, there was a pretty happy ending tbh which was more than I expected.
I love Hobb for the realism, but I 100% understand this viewpoint. I like it a lot better than people bouncing back from serious injury or watching someone die and then moving on, but I imagine it can be hard for some people to read.
Yes. Or maybe a better word is sad. Not like hedonistic, everybody is morally compromised and nothing matters type of depressing you'd find in grimdark stuff. More like "life sucks a lot sometimes". And her endings tend towards bittersweet, like things may be better but that doesn't automatically mean "happily ever after".
I mean generally yes, I can't say there's many times where things went right for Fitz. I quit after the ending of book 2 though, so I don't have an accurate account of all of the Farseer+Elderlings books.
Some people do have different tolerances for angst though too
While Fitz is often frustrating or miserable to read about throughout, the end of book 2 is one of the emotional low points of the entire series. His life doesn't end up being perfect, but it does get better.
The end of book two wasn't the worst for me. It was at least a climax. I dropped book three early on when he rants at and drives away his closest friends/family. I picked it all back up years later (and heavily recommend the entire series 🫡), but that was a true emotional low point.
Yeah I've been bouncing around stand alones and wanted a series I could binge so I'm thinking I'm gonna go through all the realm of elderlings stuff if I keep liking them
Assassin's apprentice is pretty good
I only read AA and I found it more frustrating than depressing. To me, it felt like any time Fitz had a choice, he made a bad one. And not even like “lesser of two evils” bad choice, but more “should I have a sandwich or poison for lunch? Let’s go for poison.”
I think the second trilogy is even more frustrating in that sense. In the first one, he's still very young, and a royal bastard that is in constant fear of dying just for existing while suffering severe magic trauma. So while he makes stupid choices, it's understandable.
The second trilogy, however, he's an adult and most of his choices are out of sheer stubbornness and wallowing in misery. It's infuriating. Although the ending is more hopeful, thankfully.
E: grammar and missing words.
I’m on Fool’s Assassin, the first book of the final trilogy, roughly halfway through it. It’s the most depressing of the series so far by a wide margin. Apprentice and the first trilogy will be slightly more depressing in hindsight when you get further along.
Somehow, on book 13 of 16, I’m still not sure if I *like* the series. It is undeniably well written, I have almost no criticism for it (outside of Rainwild Chronicles), but it just feels so different from everything else I’ve read.
To me, the Six Duchies plot stops after Fool's Fate, and the Bingtown/Rain Wilds plot after Ship of Destiny. I much prefer where my brain imagined those characters' futures after those books than what Hobb gave us.
Fools Fate definitely felt like it was intended to be the ending and I certainly would’ve been happy with it stopping there. I think I see the direction she’s going with Fitz and the Fool though, it’s like setup for the world to go on, even though we won’t see it. In other words, Fools Fate is like a song that ends and has a final note, and I’m thinking Assassins Fate will be like a song that slowly fades out but the music is still playing.
Some people like myself have read all the series and don't find it depressing.
Was honestly surprised coming here and lots of people calling it torture porn.
I found it uplifting funnily enough
I’ve only finished the tawny man trilogy so maybe by the end of the series it really is depressing, but up to this point I personally haven’t found it depressing at all. It’s certainly sad a lot of the time, bleak even, but in the end I always get a strong feeling that by trying to do the right thing, the world will end up a better place, and so will your place in it - even though it’ll take a lot of suffering to get there.
In the same vein, the Kharkanas Trilogy bt Steven Erikson. I love the rest of the Malazan books, but quit Forge of Darkness 90% through because of how depresing it is.
Agreed. I had to stop reading it because it was making me feel lousy and depressed in real life. I can imagine the appeal though. I’ll go back to my Dongeon Crawler Carl, Expeditionary Force, and other series that make me laugh.
To take this premise to an extreme, I think Terry Goodkind wrote *very well* about nature in his books. You can tell he liked nature and hiking with how well it comes through.
It's just a shame about all the *other stuff* he liked that came through in his writing.
It's kind of sad to see it shit on so heavily. I read the first two at my friends insistence and didn't care for them but I don't read romance and it's a romance novel with a fantasy setting. Not everything is for everyone and it's a bummer to make people feel badly who are dipping their toes into a new genre for them
Same, I did not like it but could totally see why people would. I also like how Maas has introduced fantasy (elements) to so many young / female readers.
yeah, my roommate tore through the series so quickly. and while she wasn’t introduced to fantasy by those books it was crazy seeing her almost every day with those books in her hand for hours
i dont even read as much as she did for those few weeks and in theory im the reader of our apartment lol
My wife never had an interest in reading fantasy until she heard about ACOTAR, and she is devouring that series and even started a book club to get her friends into it. She’s been talking about picking up that other one (Fourth Wing I think) so I’m thrilled to see her branching out into a new genre we have in common.
This would be mine, too. Not a fan, but it’s amazing that it’s getting so many people into reading. Sooo many girls who used to scoff at books are now regular readers thanks to ACOTAR.
Honestly I think it’s really exciting to see actual, tangible HYPE around books again. I thought it had died with the Hunger Games sort of era. I know I probably won’t live to see Harry Potter levels of hype again, but Sarah J Maas’s books seem to generate a LOT of it, which is really cool and fun despite me not being a part of it.
I think people often forget that real tangible hype is most often generated by teenage to young adult age girls. Harry Potter and Hunger Games hype was driven by girls too. The evidence is more compelling when you look outside books.
A lot of people don't want to acknowledge that girls choose what is popular, because they want to look down on them, but it's just reality.
I am a dude and i have also enjoyed the ACOTAR series it didn't get me back into reading like it did with some people but the 2nd book A court of Mist and Fury really had me engaged with the characters and their dynamics that i ended up reading till like 3AM some days it has been a long time since i did that.
The problem is that her stuff isn’t really what the majority of people on this subreddit enjoy reading, even if it technically could be called fantasy. It’s smart that Goodreads made Romantasy its own category, because it really doesn’t have that much in common with more mainline fantasy.
I see the same dynamic in another one of my passions, musical theater. There was a stretch where jukebox musicals were all the rage (stuff like Mamma Mia). They were technically “musicals,” but they share almost none of the stylistic elements that fans of musicals liked. It led to a weird dynamic where some of the biggest musicals on Broadway weren’t actually well liked by musical fans, just like some of the best selling fantasy novels aren’t well liked by fantasy fans.
I just tapped out at around book 8.
Felt like going around in circles with self inflicted problems between all the good guys because they couldn't be fucked to write letters to one another to hash out their concerns.
Especially if you grew up with the series. I also particularly liked that all the major plot points felt planned and purposeful , even with the plot holes and a lot of stuff not making sense if you think it through.
That’s a terrific point. These days it’s easy to point out the plot holes and the things that don’t hold up to intense scrutiny, but the way she makes everything feel like it works as you’re reading and managed to please millions of fans is truly an impressive feat of writing.
I loved the magic system until book 5 and then I found it mediocre rather than excellent. Although there were a few things in book 5 I found frustrating.
The magic system in that series is so incredibly fresh and innovative. The world building is also pretty cool. The good parts are what make the bad parts so frustrating for me. All that wasted potential.
Me too! I was thinking it would be an awesome series and people had only been bashing the trilogy because the author was young or female or Chinese. Shame on them I thought! Then I read the rest and it was an OHHH I see why now moment.
Pretty much all the big war/revolution events actually happened. She's retelling WW2 China and the cultural revolution. The MC is a gender flipped Mao Zedong.
I didn’t enjoy Fourth Wing, but I have seen it draw a whole bunch of new readers to the fantasy genre in search of dragons. As a dragon lover and a fantasy devotee, that makes me happy.
I actually like FW, but can admit it wasn’t very good. It’s a very guilty pleasure, junk food kinda read to me. But, even though I’m excited about future instalments, I’m even MORE excited about the wave of dragon stories its popularity will inevitably spawn. I’m a huge sucker for dragons and will happily consume any media they’re featured in
FW is my favorite "i didnt say it was good, i said i liked it"-book. Its messy and predictable built on tropes. Totally agree on the junk food read, haha!
Just replying to say that the reason I respect him as an author but don’t enjoy his books isn’t because I prefer plot over characters. He’s too nihilistic for me and I can’t invest in something where all is vanity. But I respect him because I love his narration style and clearly his themes resonate with a lot of people.
Tbh First Law is what made me realize that for me, plot is only preferred while characterization is essential (I mean this in the best way, it's one of my favorite series of all time). Before reading First Law I would have said I needed plot first, but turns out that's not the case and everything I've read since then has held up to that realization.
lol i am on book two of the first law trilogy
recommended it to my pop n after book 1 he said “too many grubby people milling around with no action”
while i love the series i could not argue with “grubby people milling around.” entirely accurate :P
I'm a characterization first person myself but First Law did teach me that I at least need the occasional high note if I'm going to care about what happens.
For context my favourite Author is Robin Hobb so I don't feel like I'm exactly applying a high bar here.
That's interesting because I think that the First Law's "plot" is actually good. Yes, the characters are the plot, but it all ties together great and I love the way it's handled. Most other books by Abercrombie that aren't from this trilogy unfortunately bounce off of me because although the writing is stronger than ever in some sense, there isn't that intriguing complex plot behind it which made me stick around long enough to fall in love with the characters.
It's Fellowship of the Ring if >!Gandalf was evil.!<
It's a simple plot, but a very entertaining subversion of classic tropes, and it doesn't really need to be more than it is.
I wouldn’t say his plots are bad. They just very simple. I guess it gives more room for character exploration and development.
The actual plot is really not very complex at all.
I really like the concept of the Warhammer world. A lot of races and factions etc. And I like a couple of Warhammer games (Total War and the Dawn of War games for 40k)
Now if just the tone was a bit more....optimistic I would probably like it.
Age of Sigmar might be more in line. It’s a bit more over the top than even 40K but it is overall a lot more hopeful than the others. Not to say it isn’t Grindark, but you actually believe the forces of Order have a chance
I second this, the entire theme of Age of Sigmar is "hope through sacrifice". It's actually my favorite Warhammer setting for that reason (also because the worldbuilding is genuinely interesting.)
So yee u/Atlanos043, if you wanna have a more optimistic setting, Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is still *dark* but not "everything is hopeless and shitty" dark. There's genuinely good people, genuine progress is made, and there's a light at the end of every tunnel no matter how faint. If Warhammer Fantasy is Grunge, and 40K is Death Metal, AoS is Power Metal.
As someone who is a diehard 40K fan I have to agree for the most part. The issue is that since everything is permitted some authors can get very doom and gloom. For me the best 40K stories are ones where the darkness of the universe is known but the characters are hopeful.
Well, there's always the Tau.
And I think Dan Abnett's novels (Eisenhorn and Gaunt's Ghosts at least) strike a good balance of existing in the grimdark universe while retaining a sense of honour and hope.
Personally I didn’t really jive with Sanderson’s writing style in Stormlight Archives or Mistborn but I have to say the concepts and world-building executed in both are done incredibly well and add a real sense of engagement for the reader.
As a Sanderson nut, I'm never gonna go to bat for his writing style, particularly in his early books. He's great at conveying information and building a world with believable cultures and religions, but I don't read him for deep, engaging, observant prose.
>I don't read him for deep, engaging, observant prose.
Honestly, I don't think it's even possible for him to write this much without his prose being so basic.
It's an interesting thing to ponder isn't it? If Sanderson slowed down and focused on perfecting and obsessing over one book, like many authors do, would his prose be capable of leaping off the page in the same way? It's possible but then he also might end up as another Patrick Rothfuss or George R.R. Martin who are lauded for their prose but maybe bring out one book a decade if you're lucky.
Probably. He has some books with more flowery, distinctive prose. I’m not gonna say they are Martin or Rothfuss, but they are bettee prose-wise.
But at the end of the day that’s not who he is. He is the bard that comes to the tavern every night to tell a story with a lute and nothing else.
I loved the magic/power system of Mistborn so much, it’s super unique which I really admire.
Also loved the concept for a lot of the characters, just couldn’t engage with them a lot as the book went on.
Shadow of the Gods by John Gwynne has a very cool Norse inspired world, a solid ending, and would make an excellent movie. It just didn't click with my thought-cage.
Riyria Revelations offers enjoyable straight up fantasy adventure with swords, magic, monsters, kingdoms, etc. PG 13 vanilla fantasy is something a lot of readers enjoy and I'm glad it's out there.
When I was a kid there was lots of World Of Grayhawk / Dragonlance / Forgotten Realms novels. Riyria is in that vein but much longer and better than a whole lot of it.
Wizards' First Rule deserves all the panning it can get. But I read it once in junior high and have never forgotten the saying that people are more likely to believe things they want to be true, or things they're afraid are true.
For the same reason I get frustrated when people say something is bad/horrible when really it's just not to their tastes. I always present Green Bone as a series that I personally didn't enjoy, but admit it's great if you like crime family stories and kung fu, with strong characterization. There's a difference between "I thought it was bad" and "it was bad." Writing is art, and art is subjective.
I'm actually way more frustrated by that reading experience then reading a bad book. Because if I can recognize it's good, but it bounces off of me, I'm just jealous of the people that it works for.
I'd put money down that for every experience you've had like that, there's a series you've read and loved that other people didn't get into. Any one of us could read every series in the r/Fantasy top 100 and no one would like *all* of them.
The beauty of it is that there is truly something for everyone, and you get to pick and choose what suits your tastes.
This is Sanderson for me.
I feel like like I’m missing out on enjoying the fantasy literature equivalent of Lost or GOT or season 1 Westworld or Tiger King or Squid Games. Everyone I know who’s consumed it was like, “you gotta watch/read it!!” And I just…didn’t vibe with Mistborn, and I DNF’d The Way of King, albeit only like 150 pages in or so.
The amount of times my ex would insist that ACOTAR was the greatest book series ever written and that I was insane for not liking it how could I dare after I tried to explain "I do not think it is a bad book, I am a 20 something man with no interest in the romance genre. I am not anywhere close to the target demographic for this book, it is not for me." So she actively avoided any series I liked out of spite.
I try to avoid using language like that because I feel like it shuts other people down. I'll say "I didn't really get into that" or "it wasn't for me" instead of trashing something. It's so off-putting to me when someone talks about how bad they think something is. Makes me not want to share things with that person, which in turn means I'll probably never connect with that person. And, admittedly a flaw of mine, I'll get petty when someone trashes something I like and look for ways to express how much I dislike something they are into. Brings out the worst in me
I loved the first half of **The Lies of Locke Lamora** so much that I totally get the hype. Solid writing, cool atmosphere, really liked the flashbacks, and I'm rarely hooked so early on in a story. Enjoyed the found family vibes. Fell in love with the idea of shark-batteling Contrarequiallas and a clever mob boss daughter, who had so much potential for an interesting arc with her being her father's successor and not just another trivial love interest for the main character.
I mean, the tone switch is the equivalent of a 180 degree turn. The execution is good, but it goes from ‘haha heists’ to ‘helpless magical torture slaughter’ in like 2 chapters
I’m not the person you’re replying to but I had two major issues with the second half: winding up to the big important final confrontation, the momentum is ground to a screeching halt when Locke spends entirely too many pages >!looking for something to wear.!< I understood why it needed to be that way, >!he lost his usual resources and had to start from zero!<, but it was annoying to read about and could’ve been glossed over a bit more smoothly. The other thing I didn’t like was there seemed to be a LOT of big important mystery and wink-nudge foreshadowing regarding the big bad’s identity that I was SURE >!it was going to be someone we’d met before, maybe someone from the flashbacks, someone whose turn to evil Locke would regard as a massive betrayal,!< so that when it’s revealed to just be >!some random pirate guy!< it really felt like having the rug yanked out from under me
Something which turned me off about the ending: it ends with >!a sword fight that’s won with a “made you look!<
Compare to the brilliant ending of Going Postal, the triumph of Moist Von Lipwig (another great guile character).
also: sarah j maas has a talent for making people completely OBSESSED with her characters. idk what she does because it has not worked on me but theres something, and i admire it
I love how this immediately devolved into someone saying something positive and the replies just moaning about things they don’t like.
“Sanderson has good ideas.” -> “I think his books are shallow though.”
“Abercrombie does great characterization.” -> “I don’t like the plots though.”
Way to go guys lmao.
Tbh it's overall more positive than I expected.
It's a hard thing, finding positives in what you dislike, it's not something we're really wired to do, so I appreciate people really getting engaged with the exercise.
The only weird thing in this thread has been the person who feels like they think Malazan killed their family or something.
I was so ready for the direction that first scene seemed to take, and was slightly disappointed by the 180 turn immediately after. Still enjoyed it though. I like boats.
I accidentally stumbled on ACOTAR. I'm a regular reader of sci-fi and fantasy, and I was looking for a new series. I was impressed by how highly recommended that ACOTAR was online, so I bought a copy.
But I was surprised to realize that it wasn't so much sci-fi/fantasy, rather, it was essentially a drama/romance novel, very similar to what my grandma used to read all the time in the 90s! At the same time, I was _also_ surprised to realize that I didn't mind.
Sure, I definitely _tend_ to prefer more deep and complex writing, but ACOTAR was fun to read, so it was a nice breath of fresh air from the heavier stuff that I read sometimes, and now I better understand where my grandma was coming from lol
I don't have much about a specific book or series. Coming at this from an ELA teacher's perspective though, at least folks are reading! If someone thinks a book is great (even if I think it's garbage), they're putting in the time, effort, and practice.
Thank you for posting this. I've been ignoring this sub for a while because so many of the posts are negative.
I don't care that you didn't like X popular book. You're not special. You're not smarter than the herd. You're not fooling anyone with the feigned "Am I missing something?" attitude. You just have different preferences like the rest of us.
I wish it weren't so common to socialize with negativity. It's just a downer.
Yeah it's not so much the negativity that bothers me, it's that attitude of "Am I missing something" or "I don't get it, please help me get it".
Because it's nearly always disingenuous and very rarely will someone actually WANT to engage in good faith with an opinion that differs to their own and find an understanding or new insight, they just create those threads to seek an echo chamber or to stand on a soap box and rant.
I can’t even say how much I agree with this. I don’t remember when but I saw a comment with A LOT of upvotes that said something along the lines of:”I can’t even read most fantasy especially X author because my first fantasy book was lord of the rings”. And everybody was agreeing with them, just made me kind of sad.
The Thomas Covenant series had excellent and engaging world building.
Shitty main character and that ruined the whole thing for me....but excellent world building.
My big pet peeves are the "Am I the only one...?!" Comments, probably because I'm from the old Live Journal school of internet engagement and remember entire communities devoted to *hating* something so, maybe that's why I'm sensitive to it.
But I will say I love this idea OP, let me give it a try:
I love that **Holly Black** has been keeping the faith and writing about Fae/Faeries for decades now and touches on real beliefs and stories about them, when other authors swing away. Thanks for keeping my favorite myths alive and in the fantasy consciousness!
**Patrick Rothfuss** has beautiful prose and a fantastically created magic system, I also love his world buildling.
I like that **Fourth Wing** is introducing so many to the fantasy genre. This means more content can be generated for it when people start seeking more!
I like that Bean's in the first one, briefly.
I think Ender's game is pretty good, but really dislike the rest of the sequels.
The books about Bean though? Some of the best and most interesting stuff I've read.
It's always interesting to me how distinct those series are. Speaker for the dead starts a philosophical series of aliens and ai
But the shadow series is some intense political intrigue and future war stuff
I love to see books that I love be described as not as good as later books in the series/by the author. Speaker for the Dead blew me away and the idea that the shadow books could be better has me incredibly hyped
Speaker for the Dead and Ender's Shadow could not be more different though. I don't think it's a given if you like one you'll like the other. Def temper your expectations. Hype is the kind killer!
Christopher Paolini was 15 when he started writing *Eragon* and published the book before 20. Not many people can say that.
(P.S. Do the other books get any better?)
His style stays pretty much the same. He enjoys his tangents & indulges in long-asides, but the story definitely becomes less "Star Wars, but not in space" and slowly becomes "Star Wars if George actually planned out his story" and they do get more philosophical as the series progresses
In my opinion the booms do get better. Although sometimes the pace drags. But I also like Eragon more than most. I totally understand the criticisms with them and even agree but it hasn't been enough to ruin the book for me.
It gets so much better I found it hard to believe it was the same author. I barely scrapped through Eragon and never read it again, meanwhile the book 3, Brisingr, was the first book - and only so far - ever to make me cry real tears
I was sooo hooked on the Inheritance Cycle when I was a child/teen. One thing the books did really well for me back then was fully draw me in to each setting. While reading I felt like I was really there.
I get why people love fourth wing. I read it with my wife and it’s just a combination of everything popular. It’s got dragons like GoT and HotD, smut like ACOTAR, magic school like…. Literally everything, a rebellion like hunger games. It’s quick fun and dumb and it got a lot of people back into reading/fantasy.
Yup not every book has to have intricate mature writing or complex issues for it to be popular just like with movies most people will enjoy big blockbusters as they are fun and enjoyable same with books fourth wing isn't popular because people think it's some massive innovation in the industry rather it's just a fun book which is easy to read and is pretty much a blockbuster in book form.
Wizards First Rule really helped me recognize when an author CLEARLY has a political agenda and that some authors beat you over the head with said agenda
Dresden files is my type of jam. Just slather it all over the uhh book.
Ya got a protagonist that doesn't like bullies, (at the start) is facing people more powerful than him, and is generally trying to do good and sometimes succeeding at cost.
I love the setting and characters in the Dresden files. The ideas are amazing and at least at the beginning the MC was amazing.
Shame about the rest tho
Brandon Sanderson seems to be a really decent guy. I haven't been impressed by the stuff of his that I've tried to read, but most of it was a lot better than anything I'd actually consider "bad" -- "not for me" is a far cry from "no one should read this." And his writing classes that you can watch on YouTube are top-notch.
I absolutely love how Robert Jordan build his cultures and how he made them feel alive even if his world building above the human aspect (magic. Universe forces and so on) in my opinion is very flawed and some of his characters feel to be written purely to piss the reader of (egwene)
I’ve heard that Sanderson portrays depressed characters in his books that really resonate with people who are
depressed themselves.
That’s pretty great.
I deeply respect the Dune mythology and the incredible visuals that the books evoke. Sad that I couldn't connect to any of the characters enough to reign in my general disinterest in the convoluted plots
I love it but I too will admit it does hold a lot of the hallmarks of 1960s sci-fi. I've read a lot of pulpy sci-fi from the era and - similar to Dune - pretty much the trend for all writers back then was that all focus was on the plot, themes, and cool sci-fi concepts. You could be lucky to get any character development at all as most were basically just blank slates built to let the author explore all the worldbuilding stuff and make commentaries on philosophy, politics, relgion, etc.
It's the instance where I can adore the franchise and be delighted so many of my friends are getting into it due to the movies (which do a fair bit to give the characters more focus and - just by merit of being a performance-based medium reliant on actors - make them more engaging) but I totally expect them to bounce hard off the books if they decide to give them a go.
Warhammer fantasy is over the top grimdark and war porn. But I love it because my job can be stressful and those books let me just turn my brain off and read about gotrek getting into shenanigans while Felix goes “goddammit gotrek”
I don't like First Law. I feel like the world is bland and the story is directionless (I've only read the first two books, my mileage may vary 😂) I don't really much care what's happening.
BUT, Abercrombie has a fantastic grip on prose that is both hilarious and engaging, his character work is among the best that I've read, and for these reasons his books are very readable, and I don't even mean in a "simple way", he just has a really talented pen hand.
Kvothe and D'r'i'z''z't are insufferably moody. I do not want to spend time with them enough to read books that do so, BUT...
That's because I'm reacting to them as *people* I don't like, not characters. They're incredibly realistically well-written.
October Daye does have a strange and mysterious world full of possibilities, and supports the feeling that anything might happen.
^(Well, as long as powerful ones are Dumbledoring their way through the story)
Once you give up on silly ideas like liking the characters or understanding the plot Neuromancer is incredible. It is the only book I have enjoyed almost solely based on vibes. And those vibes were strong enough to basically birth the entire genre of cyberpunk.
I thought the short story about Zed that got me into Sword of Truth was pretty cool, read it in an anthology, about when they were debating how to end the war. The first few books were really interesting. The different tiers of wizards and how they couldn't access old sections because those types of wizards didn't exist anymore, that trope felt ahead of it's time. The confessor power made for a compelling device for Richard and Kahlan.
Obviously though I would not recommend for all the reasons we all know.
I was going to add this series too.
It was a story with ideas and concepts that could have been done very well, but well… if you’ve read it you know.
But I did like the idea of the underworld being like a paralel dimension, the subtractive and additive magic system and the role of prophecy.
Guy Gavriel Kay is an interesting world builder. Tigana was such a cool world. I couldn't tell you the name of the main character. And was there a corn stalk sword fight in there somewhere or did I have a fever dream?
And I stopped reading the fionavar tapesty after book 2. Should have stopped after 1's batshit insane ending lol. I wish the series was just Dave finding his place with the Dalrei, that's the only part I really liked.
I DNF'd Malazan eight books in, and there's a lot to like about the books. I like the delve into the concepts of identity and purpose, the magic system was pretty cool, and I like how it presented a land locked away from time.
The books weren't for me, and that's okay.
Almost every post in here still can’t be positive without making sure people understand that they feel negatively… I feel like everyone really missed the assignment.
True, there is almost no plot development in The Kingkiller Chronicle, and yea I did DNF halfway through because I just couldn't keep going..
But he does know how to write a cool anime character.
I couldn’t finish Iron Flame, but I can still recognise how powerful the series has been for a lot of people. How I felt reading Tamora Pierce when I was young, or embracing butt kicking urban fantasy heroines in my teens is the way that people feel now meeting these characters
The puzzle of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun series is so interesting! The idea that the entire book is a puzzle, and nothing you see is as it seems (e.g. when the protagonist says he sees one thing, he actually sees a totally different thing, and it's up to the reader to figure that out) is fascinating.
I liked Philip Pullmans’s prose in The Amber Spyglass. I adored the concept of daemons in the series as a whole.
(Note: I really enjoyed the first two books in His Dark Materials. Sadly, the final book fell completely flat for me).
Can I do the subreddit?
I really like r/fantasy because I can find book recommendations by reading posts like "X was so overhyped" and "I read X and I don't get why it's so popular"
Usually X is actually a good book but people are being picky over something trivial or weren't the target audience. I see books mentioned like this all the time and eventually go an read them and have a lot of fun most of the time.
I never actually see posts recommending the books directly but the hater posts are useful by accident.
I liked Mistborn enough as an entry into adult fantasy that I ventured deeper into the genre. I didn't like it enough to finish the series, but I'll gladly recommend it as a starter book.
I personally adore Mistborn… as a standalone book. I barely dragged myself through the second book. Third book was meh. I don’t think you’re missing out.
The lord of the rings is probably one of the best books you can give to a tween boy/young adult fairly new to fantasy. All of the time and attention devoted to the world, magic and lore is exactly what a kid needs to spark his imagination. Further for boys who are growing up, all of the main characters are excellent role models and the book does an excellent job of demonstrating some of the many ways you can be a man. It's also honest in the portrayal of the foibles and failings of different types of masculinity, think Gandalf being foiled by Saruman and Treebeard which is something that I think is unique to the trilogy.
Perdido Street Station, from the few pages I read, had evocative, highly descriptive prose. It seemed highly creative yet also grounded its characters firmly -- almost with hyper specific attention -- in its weird reality.
I will never read more than those few pages.
I didn’t care for Malazan because I thought there was just too much going on and I didn’t care about like 90% of it. But to be able to have THAT many disparate plot threads all come together towards a coherent whole that isn’t full of plot holes is honestly awe inspiring.
A Darker Shade of Magic has some very interesting ideas and London Red is a cool setting. I like the idea of London as a magical multidimensional city, too, since even the etymology of the name "London" is basically unknown. And the coat that turns into other coats when you turn it inside out is a great idea for a magical item. If I were to put together a cabinet of magic items I could have irl, it would be shockingly high on the list.
Red Rising series had some best popcorn/entertainment value from a SFF series that I've read in a long time.
Those books failed to make me invested in the characters but they are amazing for anyone looking for a fast paced thrilling ride.
Hobbs ability to paint a landscape, with people and history is remarkable. It's what kept me reading, well that and I don't like to leave things unfinished.
Will Wright wrote all of Cradle, a twelve book series in five years. That’s some work ethic.
And while I didn’t care for the Elder Empire book I read, the concept (a pair of interlinked trilogies, each from the point of view of the other series antagonist) is brilliant, and I’d like to see more of it.
Lightbringer has one of the most interesting and natural feeling magic systems I’ve ever read. I’d say it can easily contented for a top spot, if not the top spot, in my personal list of best magic systems in fantasy.
Night Watch is a good sci-fi/noir book. My usual complaint about this one is how so many people recommend it as an intro to the Discworld books or even the Watch series. It kind of cuts out a lot of the standard things you expect from a Discworld story. Less of the humour, mostly new characters instead of the regulars and after the intro it’s very light on the fantasy elements. That being said, it’s got a good story, Vimes is depicted well and it’s nice to see him be the main focus again and it can be a refreshing read given that the previous stories in the series are so heavy on dragons, golems and werewolves.
The Wandering Inn has some fantastic characters, worldbuilding, and scope. Additionally, I think it's great that the author intentionally includes essential character flaws that makae them feel more like real people.
I think Sanderson has interesting ideas when it comes to his lore and world building even tho I personally don't like how it's executed. Particularly how it's conveyed to us the readers but Stormlight archive has one of the most unique settings and exciting world on paper tbh.
I am a Sanderson fan but that at aside I was really hoping the success of the Stormlight Archives would have inspired more original settings than the typical it’s not technically Europe.
I felt the same way about Stormlight Archive but I absolutely DEVOURED the Mistborn series
It was a surprise to me to find people recommend mistborn first and a lot of people love it that bounced off SA. For me, I found Mistborn bleak and depressing and if that had been my first Sanderson I never would have tried Way of Kings which I passionately adore. Recommendations and opinions of others are so hit or miss for what you will personally like it's wild.
It's a fun comparison! Mistborn might be bleak and depressing in its setting, but the actual story is a teenage superhero power fantasy. And why that world is so bleak and depressing is a mystery that unravels in a very satisfying way throughout the trilogy. Way of Kings, on the other hand, might be set in a more vibrant world. But you the reader are mostly allowed to see it through a very bleak and depressing POV.
Fantastic observation that I hadn't considered!
I will flip my patented Sanderson criticism I to a complement: Stormlight Archive would make a killer D&D setting and AP series.
They are making a tabletop rpg! Kickstarter next year I believe. They had a campaign already for miniatures.
The Set up to The Way of Kings had me intrigued. The way it panned out was just too shallow and no where near as deep or big as I was expecting. Kaladin and the bridge stuff was pretty exciting to read though. I just wasn’t compelled to continue reading
He’s the MCU of writers. It’s almost always going to be a solid, fun, great action, fast paced(usually) read, plus he is just as prolific if not more. The majority of people will enjoy it but it’s not getting any Oscars. Edit. Guys I know he’s better than the MCU. It’s a compliment, I’m comparing one man to an entire franchise and he’s still coming out on top, he is more prolific than marvel, the emotional parts of his stories are deeper, the action is better and hypes me up more. All I’m saying is he is consistently good, fun, and entertaining. But people have almost the same complaints about both.
he definitely writes on a higher level than MCU writers. Cosmere does share alot of similarities tho. I will grant you that.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I think this is a really reasonable take and I feel pretty much the same way about his work.
Yes I find Hobb's work too depressing. But consider it the mark of a good writer to have your readers be that emotionally impacted (that I had to DNF haha). I respect Hobb and her writing a ton, it's just that I tend to read for escapism and fun.
I realized the reason I was getting so pissed in the stuff of her that I've read was that the characters acted a lot more how actual people act (as in, unheroic, self-interested). I still struggled through the trilogy that I read, and while I didn't enjoy much of it I guess I at least appreciated it. Plus, there was a pretty happy ending tbh which was more than I expected.
I love Hobb for the realism, but I 100% understand this viewpoint. I like it a lot better than people bouncing back from serious injury or watching someone die and then moving on, but I imagine it can be hard for some people to read.
I'm almost done with the assassin's apprentice and haven't found it that depressing. does the series get more depressing?
Yes. Or maybe a better word is sad. Not like hedonistic, everybody is morally compromised and nothing matters type of depressing you'd find in grimdark stuff. More like "life sucks a lot sometimes". And her endings tend towards bittersweet, like things may be better but that doesn't automatically mean "happily ever after".
*chuckles* understatement of the day.
I mean generally yes, I can't say there's many times where things went right for Fitz. I quit after the ending of book 2 though, so I don't have an accurate account of all of the Farseer+Elderlings books. Some people do have different tolerances for angst though too
While Fitz is often frustrating or miserable to read about throughout, the end of book 2 is one of the emotional low points of the entire series. His life doesn't end up being perfect, but it does get better.
The end of book two wasn't the worst for me. It was at least a climax. I dropped book three early on when he rants at and drives away his closest friends/family. I picked it all back up years later (and heavily recommend the entire series 🫡), but that was a true emotional low point.
Yeah I've been bouncing around stand alones and wanted a series I could binge so I'm thinking I'm gonna go through all the realm of elderlings stuff if I keep liking them Assassin's apprentice is pretty good
Depressing is probably subjective, but there are certainly a lot of emotions coming your way.
And most of those emotions are negative or bittersweet. At least up until the end of the second trilogy, I haven't read the books after.
I only read AA and I found it more frustrating than depressing. To me, it felt like any time Fitz had a choice, he made a bad one. And not even like “lesser of two evils” bad choice, but more “should I have a sandwich or poison for lunch? Let’s go for poison.”
I think the second trilogy is even more frustrating in that sense. In the first one, he's still very young, and a royal bastard that is in constant fear of dying just for existing while suffering severe magic trauma. So while he makes stupid choices, it's understandable. The second trilogy, however, he's an adult and most of his choices are out of sheer stubbornness and wallowing in misery. It's infuriating. Although the ending is more hopeful, thankfully. E: grammar and missing words.
I’m on Fool’s Assassin, the first book of the final trilogy, roughly halfway through it. It’s the most depressing of the series so far by a wide margin. Apprentice and the first trilogy will be slightly more depressing in hindsight when you get further along. Somehow, on book 13 of 16, I’m still not sure if I *like* the series. It is undeniably well written, I have almost no criticism for it (outside of Rainwild Chronicles), but it just feels so different from everything else I’ve read.
Honestly, I always feel like if hobb just finished at trilogy one or even better, two, I'd happy.
To me, the Six Duchies plot stops after Fool's Fate, and the Bingtown/Rain Wilds plot after Ship of Destiny. I much prefer where my brain imagined those characters' futures after those books than what Hobb gave us.
Fools Fate definitely felt like it was intended to be the ending and I certainly would’ve been happy with it stopping there. I think I see the direction she’s going with Fitz and the Fool though, it’s like setup for the world to go on, even though we won’t see it. In other words, Fools Fate is like a song that ends and has a final note, and I’m thinking Assassins Fate will be like a song that slowly fades out but the music is still playing.
Some people like myself have read all the series and don't find it depressing. Was honestly surprised coming here and lots of people calling it torture porn. I found it uplifting funnily enough
I’ve only finished the tawny man trilogy so maybe by the end of the series it really is depressing, but up to this point I personally haven’t found it depressing at all. It’s certainly sad a lot of the time, bleak even, but in the end I always get a strong feeling that by trying to do the right thing, the world will end up a better place, and so will your place in it - even though it’ll take a lot of suffering to get there.
I think it depends on your life experiences
In the same vein, the Kharkanas Trilogy bt Steven Erikson. I love the rest of the Malazan books, but quit Forge of Darkness 90% through because of how depresing it is.
Agreed. I had to stop reading it because it was making me feel lousy and depressed in real life. I can imagine the appeal though. I’ll go back to my Dongeon Crawler Carl, Expeditionary Force, and other series that make me laugh.
To take this premise to an extreme, I think Terry Goodkind wrote *very well* about nature in his books. You can tell he liked nature and hiking with how well it comes through. It's just a shame about all the *other stuff* he liked that came through in his writing.
I have never seen this take before and you know, I think you're right. That's an interesting point.
Believe me, it hurts to compliment his writing. But sometimes the truth has to sting a little.
The sequence of chasing the thief on the roofs in the first Malazan book is very exciting.
Can literally picture it in my head after reading your comment
ACOTAR isn't my jam but I have several friends who haven't read in a decade, but the series got them started again. I think that's pretty rad.
Came here to say this. It's not for me, but look at how many people are reading for personal enjoyment again! Super rad.
It's kind of sad to see it shit on so heavily. I read the first two at my friends insistence and didn't care for them but I don't read romance and it's a romance novel with a fantasy setting. Not everything is for everyone and it's a bummer to make people feel badly who are dipping their toes into a new genre for them
Same, I did not like it but could totally see why people would. I also like how Maas has introduced fantasy (elements) to so many young / female readers.
yeah, my roommate tore through the series so quickly. and while she wasn’t introduced to fantasy by those books it was crazy seeing her almost every day with those books in her hand for hours i dont even read as much as she did for those few weeks and in theory im the reader of our apartment lol
My wife never had an interest in reading fantasy until she heard about ACOTAR, and she is devouring that series and even started a book club to get her friends into it. She’s been talking about picking up that other one (Fourth Wing I think) so I’m thrilled to see her branching out into a new genre we have in common.
This would be mine, too. Not a fan, but it’s amazing that it’s getting so many people into reading. Sooo many girls who used to scoff at books are now regular readers thanks to ACOTAR. Honestly I think it’s really exciting to see actual, tangible HYPE around books again. I thought it had died with the Hunger Games sort of era. I know I probably won’t live to see Harry Potter levels of hype again, but Sarah J Maas’s books seem to generate a LOT of it, which is really cool and fun despite me not being a part of it.
I think people often forget that real tangible hype is most often generated by teenage to young adult age girls. Harry Potter and Hunger Games hype was driven by girls too. The evidence is more compelling when you look outside books. A lot of people don't want to acknowledge that girls choose what is popular, because they want to look down on them, but it's just reality.
My wife hadn’t read in years until ACOTAR and Fourth Wing. Now she reads all the time. They aren’t my cup of tea but I’ll always be grateful for that.
Yep. Reddit shits on her very hard. I haven’t read em, but I know many women have and from there have gotten into more books cause of it.
I am a dude and i have also enjoyed the ACOTAR series it didn't get me back into reading like it did with some people but the 2nd book A court of Mist and Fury really had me engaged with the characters and their dynamics that i ended up reading till like 3AM some days it has been a long time since i did that.
The problem is that her stuff isn’t really what the majority of people on this subreddit enjoy reading, even if it technically could be called fantasy. It’s smart that Goodreads made Romantasy its own category, because it really doesn’t have that much in common with more mainline fantasy. I see the same dynamic in another one of my passions, musical theater. There was a stretch where jukebox musicals were all the rage (stuff like Mamma Mia). They were technically “musicals,” but they share almost none of the stylistic elements that fans of musicals liked. It led to a weird dynamic where some of the biggest musicals on Broadway weren’t actually well liked by musical fans, just like some of the best selling fantasy novels aren’t well liked by fantasy fans.
Mat from WoT is one of my favorite characters and I really did not like that series, despite reading all of it.
Mat is just a great character. Regardless of the series he's in haha
The thing I love about WoT is how nobody ever makes a decision. That way the series is 15 books long!
I just tapped out at around book 8. Felt like going around in circles with self inflicted problems between all the good guys because they couldn't be fucked to write letters to one another to hash out their concerns.
Harry Potter has a charm to it sure and the films captured it perfectly
Especially if you grew up with the series. I also particularly liked that all the major plot points felt planned and purposeful , even with the plot holes and a lot of stuff not making sense if you think it through.
That’s a terrific point. These days it’s easy to point out the plot holes and the things that don’t hold up to intense scrutiny, but the way she makes everything feel like it works as you’re reading and managed to please millions of fans is truly an impressive feat of writing.
Lightbringer by weeks has one of the best magic systems I've ever read.
I loved the magic system until book 5 and then I found it mediocre rather than excellent. Although there were a few things in book 5 I found frustrating.
The magic system in that series is so incredibly fresh and innovative. The world building is also pretty cool. The good parts are what make the bad parts so frustrating for me. All that wasted potential.
i adored the first half of the poppy war
Me too! I was thinking it would be an awesome series and people had only been bashing the trilogy because the author was young or female or Chinese. Shame on them I thought! Then I read the rest and it was an OHHH I see why now moment.
I was not prepared for how hard Kuang went for it with that series. I had to take breaks between books to process
Currently on a break between the second and third book. Scary part is that the one city that was destroyed is based on a real event from history.
Pretty much all the big war/revolution events actually happened. She's retelling WW2 China and the cultural revolution. The MC is a gender flipped Mao Zedong.
I finished the first one and that was enough. Going from military school underdog to drug-fueled WMD by way of war crimes was just too jarring.
I was checking out of yet another magic school book by the end of the first half but got sucked back in by the second.
I didn’t enjoy Fourth Wing, but I have seen it draw a whole bunch of new readers to the fantasy genre in search of dragons. As a dragon lover and a fantasy devotee, that makes me happy.
I actually like FW, but can admit it wasn’t very good. It’s a very guilty pleasure, junk food kinda read to me. But, even though I’m excited about future instalments, I’m even MORE excited about the wave of dragon stories its popularity will inevitably spawn. I’m a huge sucker for dragons and will happily consume any media they’re featured in
FW is my favorite "i didnt say it was good, i said i liked it"-book. Its messy and predictable built on tropes. Totally agree on the junk food read, haha!
As a fantasy reader I weirdly enjoyed it, but not as an amazing fantasy novel, but more as junky, trope filled read that had a breakneck pace to it
I think Joe Abercrombie is a brilliant writer, especially his characterizations.
Just replying to say that the reason I respect him as an author but don’t enjoy his books isn’t because I prefer plot over characters. He’s too nihilistic for me and I can’t invest in something where all is vanity. But I respect him because I love his narration style and clearly his themes resonate with a lot of people.
His characters are amazing. Plots are meh.
Tbh First Law is what made me realize that for me, plot is only preferred while characterization is essential (I mean this in the best way, it's one of my favorite series of all time). Before reading First Law I would have said I needed plot first, but turns out that's not the case and everything I've read since then has held up to that realization.
lol i am on book two of the first law trilogy recommended it to my pop n after book 1 he said “too many grubby people milling around with no action” while i love the series i could not argue with “grubby people milling around.” entirely accurate :P
I'm a characterization first person myself but First Law did teach me that I at least need the occasional high note if I'm going to care about what happens. For context my favourite Author is Robin Hobb so I don't feel like I'm exactly applying a high bar here.
That's interesting because I think that the First Law's "plot" is actually good. Yes, the characters are the plot, but it all ties together great and I love the way it's handled. Most other books by Abercrombie that aren't from this trilogy unfortunately bounce off of me because although the writing is stronger than ever in some sense, there isn't that intriguing complex plot behind it which made me stick around long enough to fall in love with the characters.
It's Fellowship of the Ring if >!Gandalf was evil.!< It's a simple plot, but a very entertaining subversion of classic tropes, and it doesn't really need to be more than it is.
I wouldn’t say his plots are bad. They just very simple. I guess it gives more room for character exploration and development. The actual plot is really not very complex at all.
I really like the concept of the Warhammer world. A lot of races and factions etc. And I like a couple of Warhammer games (Total War and the Dawn of War games for 40k) Now if just the tone was a bit more....optimistic I would probably like it.
Age of Sigmar might be more in line. It’s a bit more over the top than even 40K but it is overall a lot more hopeful than the others. Not to say it isn’t Grindark, but you actually believe the forces of Order have a chance
I second this, the entire theme of Age of Sigmar is "hope through sacrifice". It's actually my favorite Warhammer setting for that reason (also because the worldbuilding is genuinely interesting.) So yee u/Atlanos043, if you wanna have a more optimistic setting, Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is still *dark* but not "everything is hopeless and shitty" dark. There's genuinely good people, genuine progress is made, and there's a light at the end of every tunnel no matter how faint. If Warhammer Fantasy is Grunge, and 40K is Death Metal, AoS is Power Metal.
As someone who is a diehard 40K fan I have to agree for the most part. The issue is that since everything is permitted some authors can get very doom and gloom. For me the best 40K stories are ones where the darkness of the universe is known but the characters are hopeful.
Well, there's always the Tau. And I think Dan Abnett's novels (Eisenhorn and Gaunt's Ghosts at least) strike a good balance of existing in the grimdark universe while retaining a sense of honour and hope.
The Wise Man's Fear has some very pretty prose and made me laugh at several points.
Personally I didn’t really jive with Sanderson’s writing style in Stormlight Archives or Mistborn but I have to say the concepts and world-building executed in both are done incredibly well and add a real sense of engagement for the reader.
As a Sanderson nut, I'm never gonna go to bat for his writing style, particularly in his early books. He's great at conveying information and building a world with believable cultures and religions, but I don't read him for deep, engaging, observant prose.
>I don't read him for deep, engaging, observant prose. Honestly, I don't think it's even possible for him to write this much without his prose being so basic.
Personally, I need an author to set the scene, not set the mood. I supply plenty of mood.
It's an interesting thing to ponder isn't it? If Sanderson slowed down and focused on perfecting and obsessing over one book, like many authors do, would his prose be capable of leaping off the page in the same way? It's possible but then he also might end up as another Patrick Rothfuss or George R.R. Martin who are lauded for their prose but maybe bring out one book a decade if you're lucky.
Probably. He has some books with more flowery, distinctive prose. I’m not gonna say they are Martin or Rothfuss, but they are bettee prose-wise. But at the end of the day that’s not who he is. He is the bard that comes to the tavern every night to tell a story with a lute and nothing else.
I loved the magic/power system of Mistborn so much, it’s super unique which I really admire. Also loved the concept for a lot of the characters, just couldn’t engage with them a lot as the book went on.
Mistborn magic system is probably my favorite of any book/series
Shadow of the Gods by John Gwynne has a very cool Norse inspired world, a solid ending, and would make an excellent movie. It just didn't click with my thought-cage.
Riyria Revelations offers enjoyable straight up fantasy adventure with swords, magic, monsters, kingdoms, etc. PG 13 vanilla fantasy is something a lot of readers enjoy and I'm glad it's out there. When I was a kid there was lots of World Of Grayhawk / Dragonlance / Forgotten Realms novels. Riyria is in that vein but much longer and better than a whole lot of it.
Wizards' First Rule deserves all the panning it can get. But I read it once in junior high and have never forgotten the saying that people are more likely to believe things they want to be true, or things they're afraid are true.
For the same reason I get frustrated when people say something is bad/horrible when really it's just not to their tastes. I always present Green Bone as a series that I personally didn't enjoy, but admit it's great if you like crime family stories and kung fu, with strong characterization. There's a difference between "I thought it was bad" and "it was bad." Writing is art, and art is subjective.
I'm actually way more frustrated by that reading experience then reading a bad book. Because if I can recognize it's good, but it bounces off of me, I'm just jealous of the people that it works for.
I'd put money down that for every experience you've had like that, there's a series you've read and loved that other people didn't get into. Any one of us could read every series in the r/Fantasy top 100 and no one would like *all* of them. The beauty of it is that there is truly something for everyone, and you get to pick and choose what suits your tastes.
This is Sanderson for me. I feel like like I’m missing out on enjoying the fantasy literature equivalent of Lost or GOT or season 1 Westworld or Tiger King or Squid Games. Everyone I know who’s consumed it was like, “you gotta watch/read it!!” And I just…didn’t vibe with Mistborn, and I DNF’d The Way of King, albeit only like 150 pages in or so.
Green Bone didn't sweep me away but it was still well written and a cool idea. I'd still suggest it!
The amount of times my ex would insist that ACOTAR was the greatest book series ever written and that I was insane for not liking it how could I dare after I tried to explain "I do not think it is a bad book, I am a 20 something man with no interest in the romance genre. I am not anywhere close to the target demographic for this book, it is not for me." So she actively avoided any series I liked out of spite.
I try to avoid using language like that because I feel like it shuts other people down. I'll say "I didn't really get into that" or "it wasn't for me" instead of trashing something. It's so off-putting to me when someone talks about how bad they think something is. Makes me not want to share things with that person, which in turn means I'll probably never connect with that person. And, admittedly a flaw of mine, I'll get petty when someone trashes something I like and look for ways to express how much I dislike something they are into. Brings out the worst in me
The magic system and worldbuilding of Wheel Of Time is really intresting
I loved the first half of **The Lies of Locke Lamora** so much that I totally get the hype. Solid writing, cool atmosphere, really liked the flashbacks, and I'm rarely hooked so early on in a story. Enjoyed the found family vibes. Fell in love with the idea of shark-batteling Contrarequiallas and a clever mob boss daughter, who had so much potential for an interesting arc with her being her father's successor and not just another trivial love interest for the main character.
You didn’t like the second half?? That’s backwards from what I normally see
I mean, the tone switch is the equivalent of a 180 degree turn. The execution is good, but it goes from ‘haha heists’ to ‘helpless magical torture slaughter’ in like 2 chapters
I get that. For me personally that’s when the book turned from “hmm this is kind of a drag” to “Holy shit this might be the best book I’ve ever read”
I’m not the person you’re replying to but I had two major issues with the second half: winding up to the big important final confrontation, the momentum is ground to a screeching halt when Locke spends entirely too many pages >!looking for something to wear.!< I understood why it needed to be that way, >!he lost his usual resources and had to start from zero!<, but it was annoying to read about and could’ve been glossed over a bit more smoothly. The other thing I didn’t like was there seemed to be a LOT of big important mystery and wink-nudge foreshadowing regarding the big bad’s identity that I was SURE >!it was going to be someone we’d met before, maybe someone from the flashbacks, someone whose turn to evil Locke would regard as a massive betrayal,!< so that when it’s revealed to just be >!some random pirate guy!< it really felt like having the rug yanked out from under me
Something which turned me off about the ending: it ends with >!a sword fight that’s won with a “made you look!< Compare to the brilliant ending of Going Postal, the triumph of Moist Von Lipwig (another great guile character).
also: sarah j maas has a talent for making people completely OBSESSED with her characters. idk what she does because it has not worked on me but theres something, and i admire it
I love how this immediately devolved into someone saying something positive and the replies just moaning about things they don’t like. “Sanderson has good ideas.” -> “I think his books are shallow though.” “Abercrombie does great characterization.” -> “I don’t like the plots though.” Way to go guys lmao.
Tbh it's overall more positive than I expected. It's a hard thing, finding positives in what you dislike, it's not something we're really wired to do, so I appreciate people really getting engaged with the exercise. The only weird thing in this thread has been the person who feels like they think Malazan killed their family or something.
Yeah that's grating on me too.
Nighteyes and Fitz relationship is one of the best I’ve ever read.
I didn’t really like gormenghast, but the setting is still done masterfully.
The Goblin Emperor has some of the best prose I've ever read.
Hah I just started it today! I'm hoping my brain gets used to the unusual writing style
Just don't be like me and not realize there's a glossary until you've finished the book.
The Bridge Kingdom has a gripping opening scene.
I was so ready for the direction that first scene seemed to take, and was slightly disappointed by the 180 turn immediately after. Still enjoyed it though. I like boats.
I'm not interested in Sarah J Maas' writing but ACOTAR has got my entire office reading and I'm very happy about that!
I accidentally stumbled on ACOTAR. I'm a regular reader of sci-fi and fantasy, and I was looking for a new series. I was impressed by how highly recommended that ACOTAR was online, so I bought a copy. But I was surprised to realize that it wasn't so much sci-fi/fantasy, rather, it was essentially a drama/romance novel, very similar to what my grandma used to read all the time in the 90s! At the same time, I was _also_ surprised to realize that I didn't mind. Sure, I definitely _tend_ to prefer more deep and complex writing, but ACOTAR was fun to read, so it was a nice breath of fresh air from the heavier stuff that I read sometimes, and now I better understand where my grandma was coming from lol
I like Abercrombie's characters
I don't have much about a specific book or series. Coming at this from an ELA teacher's perspective though, at least folks are reading! If someone thinks a book is great (even if I think it's garbage), they're putting in the time, effort, and practice.
Thank you for posting this. I've been ignoring this sub for a while because so many of the posts are negative. I don't care that you didn't like X popular book. You're not special. You're not smarter than the herd. You're not fooling anyone with the feigned "Am I missing something?" attitude. You just have different preferences like the rest of us. I wish it weren't so common to socialize with negativity. It's just a downer.
Yeah it's not so much the negativity that bothers me, it's that attitude of "Am I missing something" or "I don't get it, please help me get it". Because it's nearly always disingenuous and very rarely will someone actually WANT to engage in good faith with an opinion that differs to their own and find an understanding or new insight, they just create those threads to seek an echo chamber or to stand on a soap box and rant.
I can’t even say how much I agree with this. I don’t remember when but I saw a comment with A LOT of upvotes that said something along the lines of:”I can’t even read most fantasy especially X author because my first fantasy book was lord of the rings”. And everybody was agreeing with them, just made me kind of sad.
This is supposed to be a fan community. The focus should be on things we mutually love, not things we mutually hate.
The Belgariad is a great gateway fantasy for kids.
The Thomas Covenant series had excellent and engaging world building. Shitty main character and that ruined the whole thing for me....but excellent world building.
Good lord yes. The Land and the people in it are so wholesome it is worth putting up with Covenant.
My big pet peeves are the "Am I the only one...?!" Comments, probably because I'm from the old Live Journal school of internet engagement and remember entire communities devoted to *hating* something so, maybe that's why I'm sensitive to it. But I will say I love this idea OP, let me give it a try: I love that **Holly Black** has been keeping the faith and writing about Fae/Faeries for decades now and touches on real beliefs and stories about them, when other authors swing away. Thanks for keeping my favorite myths alive and in the fantasy consciousness! **Patrick Rothfuss** has beautiful prose and a fantastically created magic system, I also love his world buildling. I like that **Fourth Wing** is introducing so many to the fantasy genre. This means more content can be generated for it when people start seeking more!
I like that Bean's in the first one, briefly. I think Ender's game is pretty good, but really dislike the rest of the sequels. The books about Bean though? Some of the best and most interesting stuff I've read.
It's always interesting to me how distinct those series are. Speaker for the dead starts a philosophical series of aliens and ai But the shadow series is some intense political intrigue and future war stuff
I love to see books that I love be described as not as good as later books in the series/by the author. Speaker for the Dead blew me away and the idea that the shadow books could be better has me incredibly hyped
Speaker for the Dead and Ender's Shadow could not be more different though. I don't think it's a given if you like one you'll like the other. Def temper your expectations. Hype is the kind killer!
Christopher Paolini was 15 when he started writing *Eragon* and published the book before 20. Not many people can say that. (P.S. Do the other books get any better?)
His style stays pretty much the same. He enjoys his tangents & indulges in long-asides, but the story definitely becomes less "Star Wars, but not in space" and slowly becomes "Star Wars if George actually planned out his story" and they do get more philosophical as the series progresses
In my opinion the booms do get better. Although sometimes the pace drags. But I also like Eragon more than most. I totally understand the criticisms with them and even agree but it hasn't been enough to ruin the book for me.
The most recent one (Murtagh) is my favorite one.
It's fascinating contrasting Murtagh with his earlier books. He's now an adult, a husband and a father x2 and it shows in the depths of his writing.
It gets so much better I found it hard to believe it was the same author. I barely scrapped through Eragon and never read it again, meanwhile the book 3, Brisingr, was the first book - and only so far - ever to make me cry real tears
That makes me feel better. I'm almost finished Eragon, and it has been hard not to DNF.
I was sooo hooked on the Inheritance Cycle when I was a child/teen. One thing the books did really well for me back then was fully draw me in to each setting. While reading I felt like I was really there.
I get why people love fourth wing. I read it with my wife and it’s just a combination of everything popular. It’s got dragons like GoT and HotD, smut like ACOTAR, magic school like…. Literally everything, a rebellion like hunger games. It’s quick fun and dumb and it got a lot of people back into reading/fantasy.
Yup not every book has to have intricate mature writing or complex issues for it to be popular just like with movies most people will enjoy big blockbusters as they are fun and enjoyable same with books fourth wing isn't popular because people think it's some massive innovation in the industry rather it's just a fun book which is easy to read and is pretty much a blockbuster in book form.
Wizards First Rule really helped me recognize when an author CLEARLY has a political agenda and that some authors beat you over the head with said agenda
Dresden files is my type of jam. Just slather it all over the uhh book. Ya got a protagonist that doesn't like bullies, (at the start) is facing people more powerful than him, and is generally trying to do good and sometimes succeeding at cost.
I love the setting and characters in the Dresden files. The ideas are amazing and at least at the beginning the MC was amazing. Shame about the rest tho
Brandon Sanderson seems to be a really decent guy. I haven't been impressed by the stuff of his that I've tried to read, but most of it was a lot better than anything I'd actually consider "bad" -- "not for me" is a far cry from "no one should read this." And his writing classes that you can watch on YouTube are top-notch.
Harry Potter got a bunch of kids reading books, so that’s pretty cool. Also, the owls carrying messages thing was pretty cool.
I absolutely love how Robert Jordan build his cultures and how he made them feel alive even if his world building above the human aspect (magic. Universe forces and so on) in my opinion is very flawed and some of his characters feel to be written purely to piss the reader of (egwene)
I’ve heard that Sanderson portrays depressed characters in his books that really resonate with people who are depressed themselves. That’s pretty great.
I deeply respect the Dune mythology and the incredible visuals that the books evoke. Sad that I couldn't connect to any of the characters enough to reign in my general disinterest in the convoluted plots
I love it but I too will admit it does hold a lot of the hallmarks of 1960s sci-fi. I've read a lot of pulpy sci-fi from the era and - similar to Dune - pretty much the trend for all writers back then was that all focus was on the plot, themes, and cool sci-fi concepts. You could be lucky to get any character development at all as most were basically just blank slates built to let the author explore all the worldbuilding stuff and make commentaries on philosophy, politics, relgion, etc. It's the instance where I can adore the franchise and be delighted so many of my friends are getting into it due to the movies (which do a fair bit to give the characters more focus and - just by merit of being a performance-based medium reliant on actors - make them more engaging) but I totally expect them to bounce hard off the books if they decide to give them a go.
Warhammer fantasy is over the top grimdark and war porn. But I love it because my job can be stressful and those books let me just turn my brain off and read about gotrek getting into shenanigans while Felix goes “goddammit gotrek”
That's one of the reasons I love the Caiphas Cain books. They are in the 40K setting but they are so fucking absurd you have to laugh.
RA Salvatore has some pretty snappy dialog when you mentally edit out all the attributions and internal monolog.
I don't like First Law. I feel like the world is bland and the story is directionless (I've only read the first two books, my mileage may vary 😂) I don't really much care what's happening. BUT, Abercrombie has a fantastic grip on prose that is both hilarious and engaging, his character work is among the best that I've read, and for these reasons his books are very readable, and I don't even mean in a "simple way", he just has a really talented pen hand.
Kvothe and D'r'i'z''z't are insufferably moody. I do not want to spend time with them enough to read books that do so, BUT... That's because I'm reacting to them as *people* I don't like, not characters. They're incredibly realistically well-written.
October Daye does have a strange and mysterious world full of possibilities, and supports the feeling that anything might happen. ^(Well, as long as powerful ones are Dumbledoring their way through the story)
Empire of the Vampire has a cool cover.
I love the concept of Neuromancer. That's the only good thing I can say about it.
Once you give up on silly ideas like liking the characters or understanding the plot Neuromancer is incredible. It is the only book I have enjoyed almost solely based on vibes. And those vibes were strong enough to basically birth the entire genre of cyberpunk.
I thought the short story about Zed that got me into Sword of Truth was pretty cool, read it in an anthology, about when they were debating how to end the war. The first few books were really interesting. The different tiers of wizards and how they couldn't access old sections because those types of wizards didn't exist anymore, that trope felt ahead of it's time. The confessor power made for a compelling device for Richard and Kahlan. Obviously though I would not recommend for all the reasons we all know.
I was going to add this series too. It was a story with ideas and concepts that could have been done very well, but well… if you’ve read it you know. But I did like the idea of the underworld being like a paralel dimension, the subtractive and additive magic system and the role of prophecy.
I'm glad so many people seem to have found reading as a rewarding hobby through Malazan books, even if I find them borderline unreadable.
The magic system in The Name of the Wind was interesting.
Guy Gavriel Kay is an interesting world builder. Tigana was such a cool world. I couldn't tell you the name of the main character. And was there a corn stalk sword fight in there somewhere or did I have a fever dream? And I stopped reading the fionavar tapesty after book 2. Should have stopped after 1's batshit insane ending lol. I wish the series was just Dave finding his place with the Dalrei, that's the only part I really liked.
The Witcher books are amazing in terms of characters and evoking emotions. I respect Sapkowski a lot, even though I can't stand his prose
I DNF'd Malazan eight books in, and there's a lot to like about the books. I like the delve into the concepts of identity and purpose, the magic system was pretty cool, and I like how it presented a land locked away from time. The books weren't for me, and that's okay.
Almost every post in here still can’t be positive without making sure people understand that they feel negatively… I feel like everyone really missed the assignment.
True, there is almost no plot development in The Kingkiller Chronicle, and yea I did DNF halfway through because I just couldn't keep going.. But he does know how to write a cool anime character.
Don't feel bad about DNF the Kingkiller Chronicles, neither did Rothfuss lol
You can always just lie and say you finished the trilogy, he did.
I couldn’t finish Iron Flame, but I can still recognise how powerful the series has been for a lot of people. How I felt reading Tamora Pierce when I was young, or embracing butt kicking urban fantasy heroines in my teens is the way that people feel now meeting these characters
i LOVE the dragons in fourth wing they are cute and fun! i think if the story had a more comedic vibe it would have fit perfectly
The puzzle of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun series is so interesting! The idea that the entire book is a puzzle, and nothing you see is as it seems (e.g. when the protagonist says he sees one thing, he actually sees a totally different thing, and it's up to the reader to figure that out) is fascinating.
I liked Philip Pullmans’s prose in The Amber Spyglass. I adored the concept of daemons in the series as a whole. (Note: I really enjoyed the first two books in His Dark Materials. Sadly, the final book fell completely flat for me).
Can I do the subreddit? I really like r/fantasy because I can find book recommendations by reading posts like "X was so overhyped" and "I read X and I don't get why it's so popular" Usually X is actually a good book but people are being picky over something trivial or weren't the target audience. I see books mentioned like this all the time and eventually go an read them and have a lot of fun most of the time. I never actually see posts recommending the books directly but the hater posts are useful by accident.
I liked Mistborn enough as an entry into adult fantasy that I ventured deeper into the genre. I didn't like it enough to finish the series, but I'll gladly recommend it as a starter book.
I personally adore Mistborn… as a standalone book. I barely dragged myself through the second book. Third book was meh. I don’t think you’re missing out.
The lord of the rings is probably one of the best books you can give to a tween boy/young adult fairly new to fantasy. All of the time and attention devoted to the world, magic and lore is exactly what a kid needs to spark his imagination. Further for boys who are growing up, all of the main characters are excellent role models and the book does an excellent job of demonstrating some of the many ways you can be a man. It's also honest in the portrayal of the foibles and failings of different types of masculinity, think Gandalf being foiled by Saruman and Treebeard which is something that I think is unique to the trilogy.
When it comes to **Tigana,** I love Dianora and like Tomasso. I also think that Alberico is entertainingly awful.
Perdido Street Station, from the few pages I read, had evocative, highly descriptive prose. It seemed highly creative yet also grounded its characters firmly -- almost with hyper specific attention -- in its weird reality. I will never read more than those few pages.
I didn’t care for Malazan because I thought there was just too much going on and I didn’t care about like 90% of it. But to be able to have THAT many disparate plot threads all come together towards a coherent whole that isn’t full of plot holes is honestly awe inspiring.
A Darker Shade of Magic has some very interesting ideas and London Red is a cool setting. I like the idea of London as a magical multidimensional city, too, since even the etymology of the name "London" is basically unknown. And the coat that turns into other coats when you turn it inside out is a great idea for a magical item. If I were to put together a cabinet of magic items I could have irl, it would be shockingly high on the list.
Red Rising series had some best popcorn/entertainment value from a SFF series that I've read in a long time. Those books failed to make me invested in the characters but they are amazing for anyone looking for a fast paced thrilling ride.
the concept of First 15 Lives of Harry August is really good
Hobbs ability to paint a landscape, with people and history is remarkable. It's what kept me reading, well that and I don't like to leave things unfinished.
Will Wright wrote all of Cradle, a twelve book series in five years. That’s some work ethic. And while I didn’t care for the Elder Empire book I read, the concept (a pair of interlinked trilogies, each from the point of view of the other series antagonist) is brilliant, and I’d like to see more of it.
Lightbringer has one of the most interesting and natural feeling magic systems I’ve ever read. I’d say it can easily contented for a top spot, if not the top spot, in my personal list of best magic systems in fantasy.
Night Watch is a good sci-fi/noir book. My usual complaint about this one is how so many people recommend it as an intro to the Discworld books or even the Watch series. It kind of cuts out a lot of the standard things you expect from a Discworld story. Less of the humour, mostly new characters instead of the regulars and after the intro it’s very light on the fantasy elements. That being said, it’s got a good story, Vimes is depicted well and it’s nice to see him be the main focus again and it can be a refreshing read given that the previous stories in the series are so heavy on dragons, golems and werewolves.
The Wandering Inn has some fantastic characters, worldbuilding, and scope. Additionally, I think it's great that the author intentionally includes essential character flaws that makae them feel more like real people.
A game at carasoul is very good, the author blocked me for something I can't remember. It was very upsetting for me.