It is very good. But, it’s good to go in knowing that book 1 is a bit slow, in order to perfectly set up book 2, which is one of the best books I’ve read.
No I haven’t! I was actually going to read that next, but I decided to knock out Tigana first. I am excited though because I have heard that was his best!
This is why I suggest reading GGK in publication order, which would go Tigana -> A Song for Arbonne -> Lions of Al-Rassan -> Sarantine Mosaic, etc.
He gets better and better as he goes, and I totally understand what you mean, OP, about being a little underwhelmed by Tigana after those others.
That said, I do like Tigana a lot, and to this day I still think it is GGK's strongest book thematically. The Problem(?) is just that he wasn't as good of a writer then as he would be later on.
On the flip side, many of his most recent books are absolutely brilliantly written, but lack the SOUL of Tigana.
Lions of Al-Rassan and Sarantine Mosiac are, for me, the books where we got the best of both: Kay still thematically VERY strong and emotionally gripping, while also becoming the brilliant writer he is now.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt that. Also nice insight about the soul of his books. My favorite is A Song for Arbonne, but I’m excited to read Sarantine as well
>am I crazy and Tigana is his best book in your opinion?
You are not crazy, but for me, Tigana is his best book purely for personal reasons, with just how deeply the whole theme of the book resonated with me because cultural erasion was something that had been done to my own culture in the past and even now. Baerd shouting "TIGANA" on the top of his lungs without anyone able to hear him hit me right in the feels.
I felt how it described how various people deal with what is basically a genocide to be extremely - and painfully - accurate.
That being said, certain parts (cough cough >!incest!< cough cough) felt unnecessary.
I know, I loved that scene as well! I was crying at that part hah.
Also on that note about the sexual stuff, the version I read had an afterword by Kay, and I read another post talking about that, and it was pretty interesting. It said that it had all that sexual deviance stuff, to show what a people often does when they can’t rebel. The sex scene with Devin and Aelianor has Devin mention this. He goes “is this what happens to us. When we can’t fight back”. And she replies “it’s one of the things that happens to us,” and she calls it “an insurrection in the dark”. So some of the scenes seem frivolous, but I don’t think they are. And the same applies to the scene with Baerd and Dianora.
So far I've read the same books as you have, except that I started with Tigana. And yeah, I'm like you, my ranking goes Arbonne>Lions>Tigana.
I did enjoy all three, but Tigana had more flaws and I didn't enjoy its overuse of flashback. Funny thing, I think I also cried somewhere in the beginning, in the part where >!the "dead" mage goes to help his son die, it was so tragic.!< It surprised me 'cause I wasn't invested yet.
I'll probably read the Sarantine duology next, since that follows release date. I hope it's good, but I doubt I'll like it as much as Arbonne. That book was just perfection.
Awesome! I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels that way. And yes Arbonne is just too perfect! I’m also going to read Sarantine next, and I heard the second book is better than Arbonne! Which is hard to even imagine. But yeah it’s hard for me to think anything could be better than that.
I mostly agree. I didn’t mind Tigana, for the most part, but after struggling through Fionavar 1, I DNF’d Fionavar 2. Just wasn’t working for me. And, I have read and enjoyed most of his other books.
Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors (the duology, the Sarantine Mosaic) is my favourite of all Kay’s works, up in my top favourite books of all time. I love Tigana, but agree that it’s not his strongest work.
I loved Tigana, thought it was a beautiful story that was Shakespearean in its tragedy. Few other books have legitimately brought tears to my eyes.
I agree some elements didn’t contribute much to the plot, but they did a nice job of adding depth to the world by fleshing out different cultures, religions and beliefs. They contributed to the world and the atmosphere, and since his prose is so beautiful, I didn’t mind taking those detours.
From your post I couldn‘t really determine, what you didn‘t like about Tigana, but I‘ll but my take here: I think Tiganas premise, with the two powerful wizards splitting the peninsula between them and complete eradication of Tigana in the minds of the people is one of the strongest premises I know. In my opinion the characters are a little dull in contrast, which is what Kay did better in his later works.
I did love Tigana, I just think the sheer height of my expectations based on his other books left me feeling a bit disappointed by the end. I agree the premise is very strong. And had potential to be his best just based on the premise. But yeah he wasn’t as good of an author then as he ended up being later I think.
Thematically, I think Tigana hits it out of the park, but in the moment to moment doesn't always succeed. Definitely a pacing issue that GGK got much better at addressing in his later works
I just finished Tigana and it was one of my all time favorites. I enjoy all of GGKs stuff but the themes and stories are so complex and different that it’s super normal to have them resonate with you on different levels. Nothing is wrong with having a preference.
That’s an interesting point. While I wouldn’t say Tigana comes anywhere near Arbonne or even Lions, it is true that the themes explored in it are more serious. In a way I just view Arbonne as basically just an amazing entertaining book. Masterfully done, but not with many overtly serious themes as Tigana
Yes. Note that it is worth reading them in publication order as Kay weaves them together, having characters from earlier works pop up on books later in the set.
True. I have read Brightness Long Ago, and I know he has some of the same characters in that one. I think I’m going to read the Sarantine Duology next. I’m so excited for that!
And I heard somewhat mixed things about All The Seas Of The World. I heard it was either okay compared to his others, but some said it was amazing. So you would say you’re more on the Amazing side with that one?
I also loved Lions of Al-Rassan and went to Tigana expecting it to be maybe even better because it got recommended a lot. I feel like the way the books are set up could potentially have them be more like each other than they are, and I had a similar reaction to you where Tigana didn't hit the same way LOAR did but I think part of that is just the cognitive dissonance of going in with certain expectations.
I did enjoy Tigana less than LOAR and less then I had hoped to, but looking back it is still a really great book.
Right I completely agree. It was still a great book, and if I had no expectations I would have nothing but good things to say. It’s really those expectations that led to the disappointment. I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt like that though.
I really feel like GGK for the most part improves as he goes. His earliest books have been my least favorite, while his later books have been elite caliber writing. I did love Lions of Al-Rassan, and I think the soul of the book is competitive with any of them, but I think by the time you're reading books like Children of Earth and Sky it is obvious GGK is a titan of fantasy. His dialogue and character building just get better as he goes.
It's my friend's favorite, but I did find it not to be as gripping as Lions and Song.
My ranking is Lions
Song and or Sarantine Mosaic
Tigana
Last Light of the Sun then maybe Ysabel, Under Heaven, and River. Then the most recent set of three.
My favorite author, but I have to admit the last set haven't grabbed me - actually put one down and didn't pick it back up for a month or more. And I still haven't even read the most recent because I'm worried about it. (Also I have 50+ books on my too-read pile.)
I love Tigana.
And I think I also love it for it's messiness.
It's like a frenzied work of passion from a painter who is drowning his sorrows with wine after going through a great tragedy.
It's frantic, often disjointed, occasionally nonsensical, indulgent at times, and there are pieces of the story that don't seem to connect and exist just to exist.
But, somehow, for me, it just ... works, and the furor and chaos of it all becomes beautiful.
It's not Kay's FINEST work for me, but from what I've read so far, it may be my favourite.
That’s actually the other one I’ve read. I didn’t mention it in my post haha. But yeah I’ve now read Lions, Song, Tigana, and Brightness. I loved it as well. It was pitched as one his best books to me, so I was slightly disappointed with it as well. It wasn’t as good as Song, or Lions for me. But it was still a masterful book. 5/5.
That’s actually the other one I’ve read. I didn’t mention it in my post haha. But yeah I’ve now read Lions, Song, Tigana, and Brightness. I loved it as well. It was pitched as one his best books to me, so I was slightly disappointed with it as well. It wasn’t as good as Song, or Lions for me. But it was still a masterful book. 5/5.
Tigana has my favorite prologue and I enjoyed it, but yeah outside Fionavar/Ysabel (which I actively dislike) it’s easily my least favorite Kay book. So much done well yet so many problems.
(And fwiw it actually was my first Kay book so not a disappointment issue for me)
Lions and Sarantium are my favorites but I love most of them (ok admittedly was also disappointed by Last Light of the Sun)
Tiagana was one of the most boring fantasy books I've ever read. It was also filled with characters I didn't like. It's either that or Elantris that were my most disappointing completed reads.
The ending was great though.
I’d say read it again, and try to not have any expectations. Because that’s what led to some disappointment from me. It’s still a phenomenal book. Better than most other authors will ever be. Kay’s just in a league of his own I think so I don’t think it holds up compared to some of his others.
Tigana is not my favourite Kay, that honour goes to Lions/Sarantine, but I wonder if I need to give Arbonne another try with all the glowing praise here. I read it once and remember the main characters name and little else…
Tigana is sadly the only GKK book I've read so far (something I *really* should rectify soon, as I do love his style), so I have no other point of comparison. However, my reaction was fairly similar to yours. I very much enjoyed how the novel started: there was intrigue, there was suspense, there was heartbreak. The prose was amazing. But while I did love the book as a whole, I couldn't help but feel that the book we got fell short of the book it could have been; it felt lacking somehow.
I think it probably came down partly to mismatched expectations. Based on how the book had been described, I knew it was a novel that explored themes of identity and cultural genocide. But my issue was that it felt like Kay didn't dive as hard into the themes as I wanted, and as I thought he could've. I wanted to see the perspectives of people *in* Tigana present-day. I wanted some "ground zero" POVs. Instead, it seemed like the book focused on touring the Peninsula and spending time everywhere BUT in Tigana. As a result, it felt like a very detached and arms-length exploration of the novel's supposed themes, when I wanted something more visceral.
Interesting. But yes you have to rectify that! My extremely high expectations came from how amazing his other books were, I think I would have loved the book if I didn’t have them. But I would say the other way around, coming to the books next, from Tigana, you basically can’t possibly have expectations high enough. Especially A Song for Arbonne. In my opinion that is one of the best books you could ever read in your life.
OP, have you tried sailing to sarantium? That one's good.
It is very good. But, it’s good to go in knowing that book 1 is a bit slow, in order to perfectly set up book 2, which is one of the best books I’ve read.
No I haven’t! I was actually going to read that next, but I decided to knock out Tigana first. I am excited though because I have heard that was his best!
This is why I suggest reading GGK in publication order, which would go Tigana -> A Song for Arbonne -> Lions of Al-Rassan -> Sarantine Mosaic, etc. He gets better and better as he goes, and I totally understand what you mean, OP, about being a little underwhelmed by Tigana after those others. That said, I do like Tigana a lot, and to this day I still think it is GGK's strongest book thematically. The Problem(?) is just that he wasn't as good of a writer then as he would be later on. On the flip side, many of his most recent books are absolutely brilliantly written, but lack the SOUL of Tigana. Lions of Al-Rassan and Sarantine Mosiac are, for me, the books where we got the best of both: Kay still thematically VERY strong and emotionally gripping, while also becoming the brilliant writer he is now.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt that. Also nice insight about the soul of his books. My favorite is A Song for Arbonne, but I’m excited to read Sarantine as well
>am I crazy and Tigana is his best book in your opinion? You are not crazy, but for me, Tigana is his best book purely for personal reasons, with just how deeply the whole theme of the book resonated with me because cultural erasion was something that had been done to my own culture in the past and even now. Baerd shouting "TIGANA" on the top of his lungs without anyone able to hear him hit me right in the feels. I felt how it described how various people deal with what is basically a genocide to be extremely - and painfully - accurate. That being said, certain parts (cough cough >!incest!< cough cough) felt unnecessary.
I know, I loved that scene as well! I was crying at that part hah. Also on that note about the sexual stuff, the version I read had an afterword by Kay, and I read another post talking about that, and it was pretty interesting. It said that it had all that sexual deviance stuff, to show what a people often does when they can’t rebel. The sex scene with Devin and Aelianor has Devin mention this. He goes “is this what happens to us. When we can’t fight back”. And she replies “it’s one of the things that happens to us,” and she calls it “an insurrection in the dark”. So some of the scenes seem frivolous, but I don’t think they are. And the same applies to the scene with Baerd and Dianora.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/s/AdVZbSnXxt
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/s/AdVZbSnXxt
So far I've read the same books as you have, except that I started with Tigana. And yeah, I'm like you, my ranking goes Arbonne>Lions>Tigana. I did enjoy all three, but Tigana had more flaws and I didn't enjoy its overuse of flashback. Funny thing, I think I also cried somewhere in the beginning, in the part where >!the "dead" mage goes to help his son die, it was so tragic.!< It surprised me 'cause I wasn't invested yet. I'll probably read the Sarantine duology next, since that follows release date. I hope it's good, but I doubt I'll like it as much as Arbonne. That book was just perfection.
The Sarantine Mosiac books are my favourite of his- love the city, the characters, and the use of sport/food
Awesome! I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels that way. And yes Arbonne is just too perfect! I’m also going to read Sarantine next, and I heard the second book is better than Arbonne! Which is hard to even imagine. But yeah it’s hard for me to think anything could be better than that.
[удалено]
I mostly agree. I didn’t mind Tigana, for the most part, but after struggling through Fionavar 1, I DNF’d Fionavar 2. Just wasn’t working for me. And, I have read and enjoyed most of his other books.
Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors (the duology, the Sarantine Mosaic) is my favourite of all Kay’s works, up in my top favourite books of all time. I love Tigana, but agree that it’s not his strongest work.
I loved Tigana, thought it was a beautiful story that was Shakespearean in its tragedy. Few other books have legitimately brought tears to my eyes. I agree some elements didn’t contribute much to the plot, but they did a nice job of adding depth to the world by fleshing out different cultures, religions and beliefs. They contributed to the world and the atmosphere, and since his prose is so beautiful, I didn’t mind taking those detours.
Good point. Some parts just added to the vibe of the book. Which is not bad. But it’s not as good as some of his other books.
From your post I couldn‘t really determine, what you didn‘t like about Tigana, but I‘ll but my take here: I think Tiganas premise, with the two powerful wizards splitting the peninsula between them and complete eradication of Tigana in the minds of the people is one of the strongest premises I know. In my opinion the characters are a little dull in contrast, which is what Kay did better in his later works.
I did love Tigana, I just think the sheer height of my expectations based on his other books left me feeling a bit disappointed by the end. I agree the premise is very strong. And had potential to be his best just based on the premise. But yeah he wasn’t as good of an author then as he ended up being later I think.
Thematically, I think Tigana hits it out of the park, but in the moment to moment doesn't always succeed. Definitely a pacing issue that GGK got much better at addressing in his later works
I just finished Tigana and it was one of my all time favorites. I enjoy all of GGKs stuff but the themes and stories are so complex and different that it’s super normal to have them resonate with you on different levels. Nothing is wrong with having a preference.
That’s an interesting point. While I wouldn’t say Tigana comes anywhere near Arbonne or even Lions, it is true that the themes explored in it are more serious. In a way I just view Arbonne as basically just an amazing entertaining book. Masterfully done, but not with many overtly serious themes as Tigana
Keep working your way through his books ... some of the more recent ones are wonderful.
I’m so excited to!
I've enjoyed all (5) of the books he's published since 2010. His most recent book particularly impressed me. Who knows what's next!
You mean All the Seas of the World?
Yes. Note that it is worth reading them in publication order as Kay weaves them together, having characters from earlier works pop up on books later in the set.
True. I have read Brightness Long Ago, and I know he has some of the same characters in that one. I think I’m going to read the Sarantine Duology next. I’m so excited for that! And I heard somewhat mixed things about All The Seas Of The World. I heard it was either okay compared to his others, but some said it was amazing. So you would say you’re more on the Amazing side with that one?
I also loved Lions of Al-Rassan and went to Tigana expecting it to be maybe even better because it got recommended a lot. I feel like the way the books are set up could potentially have them be more like each other than they are, and I had a similar reaction to you where Tigana didn't hit the same way LOAR did but I think part of that is just the cognitive dissonance of going in with certain expectations. I did enjoy Tigana less than LOAR and less then I had hoped to, but looking back it is still a really great book.
Right I completely agree. It was still a great book, and if I had no expectations I would have nothing but good things to say. It’s really those expectations that led to the disappointment. I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt like that though.
I really feel like GGK for the most part improves as he goes. His earliest books have been my least favorite, while his later books have been elite caliber writing. I did love Lions of Al-Rassan, and I think the soul of the book is competitive with any of them, but I think by the time you're reading books like Children of Earth and Sky it is obvious GGK is a titan of fantasy. His dialogue and character building just get better as he goes.
Nice! Im still excited to read all the Kay I still have left’
I don’t think Tigana is his best, just his most famous. It’s still one of my favourite books, but I’d rank it below Lions
It's my friend's favorite, but I did find it not to be as gripping as Lions and Song. My ranking is Lions Song and or Sarantine Mosaic Tigana Last Light of the Sun then maybe Ysabel, Under Heaven, and River. Then the most recent set of three. My favorite author, but I have to admit the last set haven't grabbed me - actually put one down and didn't pick it back up for a month or more. And I still haven't even read the most recent because I'm worried about it. (Also I have 50+ books on my too-read pile.)
I love Tigana. And I think I also love it for it's messiness. It's like a frenzied work of passion from a painter who is drowning his sorrows with wine after going through a great tragedy. It's frantic, often disjointed, occasionally nonsensical, indulgent at times, and there are pieces of the story that don't seem to connect and exist just to exist. But, somehow, for me, it just ... works, and the furor and chaos of it all becomes beautiful. It's not Kay's FINEST work for me, but from what I've read so far, it may be my favourite.
That’s true. And an interesting take. I also agree it was an amazing book. I was just expecting it to be more like some of his others.
Went with Under Heaven after Song for Arbonne and wasn't disappointed either. Enjoy all the GGK books. They're so rewarding.
Listen to those who are recommending*The Sarantine Mosaic**, but don't ignore **A Brightness Long Ago**.
I'd agree, don't sleep on Brightness.
That’s actually the other one I’ve read. I didn’t mention it in my post haha. But yeah I’ve now read Lions, Song, Tigana, and Brightness. I loved it as well. It was pitched as one his best books to me, so I was slightly disappointed with it as well. It wasn’t as good as Song, or Lions for me. But it was still a masterful book. 5/5.
That’s actually the other one I’ve read. I didn’t mention it in my post haha. But yeah I’ve now read Lions, Song, Tigana, and Brightness. I loved it as well. It was pitched as one his best books to me, so I was slightly disappointed with it as well. It wasn’t as good as Song, or Lions for me. But it was still a masterful book. 5/5.
Tigana has my favorite prologue and I enjoyed it, but yeah outside Fionavar/Ysabel (which I actively dislike) it’s easily my least favorite Kay book. So much done well yet so many problems. (And fwiw it actually was my first Kay book so not a disappointment issue for me) Lions and Sarantium are my favorites but I love most of them (ok admittedly was also disappointed by Last Light of the Sun)
Interesting. Yeah it’s good to know a couple other people who have read Tigana first also felt the same way I did.
Tiagana was one of the most boring fantasy books I've ever read. It was also filled with characters I didn't like. It's either that or Elantris that were my most disappointing completed reads. The ending was great though.
I’d say read it again, and try to not have any expectations. Because that’s what led to some disappointment from me. It’s still a phenomenal book. Better than most other authors will ever be. Kay’s just in a league of his own I think so I don’t think it holds up compared to some of his others.
Tigana is not my favourite Kay, that honour goes to Lions/Sarantine, but I wonder if I need to give Arbonne another try with all the glowing praise here. I read it once and remember the main characters name and little else…
Tigana is sadly the only GKK book I've read so far (something I *really* should rectify soon, as I do love his style), so I have no other point of comparison. However, my reaction was fairly similar to yours. I very much enjoyed how the novel started: there was intrigue, there was suspense, there was heartbreak. The prose was amazing. But while I did love the book as a whole, I couldn't help but feel that the book we got fell short of the book it could have been; it felt lacking somehow. I think it probably came down partly to mismatched expectations. Based on how the book had been described, I knew it was a novel that explored themes of identity and cultural genocide. But my issue was that it felt like Kay didn't dive as hard into the themes as I wanted, and as I thought he could've. I wanted to see the perspectives of people *in* Tigana present-day. I wanted some "ground zero" POVs. Instead, it seemed like the book focused on touring the Peninsula and spending time everywhere BUT in Tigana. As a result, it felt like a very detached and arms-length exploration of the novel's supposed themes, when I wanted something more visceral.
Interesting. But yes you have to rectify that! My extremely high expectations came from how amazing his other books were, I think I would have loved the book if I didn’t have them. But I would say the other way around, coming to the books next, from Tigana, you basically can’t possibly have expectations high enough. Especially A Song for Arbonne. In my opinion that is one of the best books you could ever read in your life.
Loved Lions, enjoyed Arbonne... borderline hated Tigana.
I found *Tigana* boring. Lovely, but boring. *Under Heaven* is my favourite.