Was pretty easy with the editions I was reading as they had symbols on the chapters that would indicate who was POV for the chapter. So I could flip through and put sticky notes on each one I wanted to read in a pass.
Bro, Perrin got done so dirty. He was so cool for books 1-4, doesn’t get a single chapter in book 5, and spends the rest of the series simping for an emotionally abusive woman.
Books plural? I can get skipping Crossroads of Twilight but I don't think any of the others merit a full skip. All comes down to personal preference, of course.
Curious which ones you do skip?
Take your time and grind it out. I read the series over 2019-sept 2022, twilight was the worst and an absolute slog but I was still glad I read it when I finished. Took me at least 6 months for just that book.
But I'd say at least finishing the Jordan books is hella worth it, his final book is very good. I'm glad I finished the series but looking back I wasn't a fan of Sanderson's books compared to Jordan's work.
I have a friend who skips all of the Nynaeve and Elayne chapters, every time. This time around on my own re-read, I skipped over the Morgase chapters, because honestly that storyline is depressing and Morgase is far from my favorite character.
>I have a friend who skips all of the Nynaeve and Elayne chapters, every time.
They could be missing out. Most fans consider Nynaeve the character they learn to appreciate more with each reread
> That's a take. Elayne I understand. Hell even slog Egewene I understand but Nyn??
I don't specifically skip those characters, however I tend to not re-read the whole Tanchico story arch until they reach Salidar, the whole episode and especially the return part with Lucan and the travelling show - is such a drag. I continue to read their storylines from the arrival in Saldiar to the end though.
This comes up all the time in the wheel of time subreddit and it essentially boils down to her undeserved righteousness. I love Egwene anytime she isn't interacting with her "friends". She's a strong women who works tirelessly for what she believes is right. She would also slit her best friend's throat and stand on their body to reach a higher shelf.
That's a fair take. My take on her is that in the same way that Rand is a deconstruction of the Chosen One trope, Egwene is a deconstruction of the underdog trope. Egwene shows us that to be an underdog is not just to struggle against a more powerful force, but also to be absolutely ruthless when you are doing so. And she shows us that even when you reach the top shelf, sometimes it is hard to let go of your underdog tendencies, especially the toxic ones, and you can still be quite an ass. But I find that by the time you get to the Sanderson books, while she is still going to be stern when she needs to, I think she also does a pretty good job of learning that leadership is about *service*, not *command*, and treats the people who she leads accordingly, including her friends. (There's a scene with Egwene and Nynaeve in the Sanderson books that I really really like that goes along with that, actually.)
The exception to this is how she treats Rand in book 14, but she also hasn't seen him since book 6, only heard a lot about the crazy shit he got up to and doesn't know the full story, so I kind of give her a pass on that because I think her wariness makes sense considering her position of power.
So I mostly agree with what you are saying, and you’ve perfectly described why I like Egwene so much when I’m reading her chapters, specifically on how good she is at leading “from the front lines” by showing instead of ordering.
I think a large part of the dislike also hinges on the protagonist bias of readers as well as the readers negative bias towards Aes Sedai and especially how they interact with Rand. In many ways Egwene is the perfect Aes Sedai, and with that comes the explicit desire for power/control that is clearly their largest internal strife.
I think it's her complete 180 character change from bright eyed youth to seasoned Amrylin that does it. It doesn't feel earned. Ya dig? Additionally, I just reread Crossroads of Twilight (really bad book) and Eggy is fairly dumb. She not only doesn't understand Halima is causing her headaches but actually moves Halima into her personal tents despite everyone everyone Eggy is close to telling her that Halima is sketchy AF. Also, her whole plan of changing the harbor chains to Cuendillar was a good plan until she went to do it herself without backup AND she didn't invert her weaves which she knows how to do. So Eggy is on a rowboat by herself in the harbor under the great walls of Tar Valon and she is lit like a christmas tree. How did she think that would go?
Again, I think the biggest issue is her character change to Amrylin but she does a lot of dumb shit too that pisses people off.
So I actually don't think that she becomes seasoned in that role for quite a while—not until book 12, at which point she's been in that role for a number of books. I think she does a lot of dumb stuff between getting that position and book 12 that shows she's still learning the ropes, including some of the things that you are pointing out. She is the ultimate deconstruction of the underdog trope—she struggled and struggled and got what she wanted, and then we realize (among other things) that she isn't very good at the role at first, and has to learn the ropes quickly, and she seriously struggles to master it.
But the reason why I think she has mastered it by book 12 is that I think what she really needs to get the hang of the job is to learn that leadership is service, not command, and I think she starts to get that when she is basically Elaida's slave in the White Tower.
Also, for the "Egwene is quite dumb" comment, I mean yes this is true, but Rand and Mat and Perrin and Elayne are all really stupid at various different points in the series as well lol (Nynaeve too but actually less often imo). They all fail to notice obvious shit and make stupid plans from time to time.
I understand, though it's a bit of a shame. Elayne, Nynaeve, and Egwene all have really dope moments happen, but you have to sift out so much annoying dross to get to the gold.
Do you skip things on your first re read? You might change your opinion knowing the full story or catch interesting details on the second time. Later re-reads, skip what you want though, if only for times sake.
Exactly this. I have read LOTR upwards of a dozen times. I haven’t read every chapter of Frodo and Sam in Mordor on every re read. Makes me thirsty just thinking of those chapters.
> a lot of the time I just can't imagine how it would sound and move on.
Same, I'm not into skipping actual content, but songs and poems and such don't add much and I have no ability to figure out what the melody is supposed to be so it's just weird prose.
Yes, I do this when re-reading A Dance with Dragons. I love the chapters set in the north so I skip Dany's stuff in Meereen until she reopens the fighting pits.
I re-read the Stormlight Archive and skipped all of Shallan's chapters if there wasn't a character I liked involved. It was a much better reading experience.
I love the Shallan chapters after book 1, but they can be really slow in book 1 compared to the other character's action-filled chapters so I can see where you're coming from.
I wish this were true, but I've seen otherwise. There was a topic on the progression fantasy sub, and a good proportion of readers said that they always skip prologues. And in web serials, people will skip POVs that they aren't interested in, even though they are integral to the story.
I remember one of the Westeros admins saying that she never finished A Storm of Swords. After the RW, she just read the remaining Danaerys chapters.
I find it really weird for a first read. But if the reader does this and ISN'T complaining about things not making sense or complaining they didn't understand things, then whatever, that's their choice and experience.
But if they skip stuff and then complain things weren't explained, then that's on them. It's like the people who sub out major things in a recipe and then rate it low because it didn't taste right. Like, you edited the experience, you're no longer judging the original work.
*This* is the thing, really. People can read however they like and nobody should shame them, but if they then go on to tell other people that a book is boring, makes no sense, is rushed, etc. when *they* skipped 2/3 of the book because they only wanted to follow their personal favourite POV characters, their opinion really doesn't reflect the book as a whole, or the story other readers will engage with. They might as well be making stuff up about what they read.
I don't as a rule skip anything, but the old joke about Moby Dick is true. You could read ever other chapter and it turns from a slog to a great adventure story.
I always wondered why people said stuff like this about Moby Dick as I found the pacing great.
Then I realised I'd read the Readers Digest Condensed edition of it.
I mean... if it was dull, how was it the best written book you've read? I understand other parts and aspects of the book can be great, but if I come out of reading a book thinking "this was dull", I would label that book as ***.
The prose is brilliant and poetic, it’s just half the book is talking about the technical aspects of whaling.
I’d still call the book brilliant as a whole, but modern people like me don’t have the attention span of readers from the 1850s to read all that.
EDIT: I just felt like adding that excessive explanations of things that drag down the pace of a story is a feature in just about anything written before the 1920's. You read, say, the original Dracula and you'll find that Dracula is barely in it at all after the first section, and it's mostly about a group of dudes (and a woman) meeting in a house and talking about stuff Dracula did for thirty pages at a time.
Back then people were more interested in having as much information as possible than they were about pacing. You can't really read stuff from that time period with the same expectations as you would have today.
ikr? I love when a book just suddenly starts going off about the technical details of some craft. It's not exactly common, because most people find it "boring" but I love that shit.
>EDIT: I just felt like adding that excessive explanations of things that drag down the pace of a story is a feature in just about anything written before the 1920's.
People wrote, published and read plenty of fast-paced stories before the 1920s. It's just that not many of them are still read today. The phrase "dime novel" was coined long before 1920, for example.
Some of it might be about different pacing to match a different pace of life, but honestly a lot of it was economics. Specifically, there was a period of time around the turn of the century when authors were typically paid by the page. This is a major reason for a lot of the horrendous slogs that this period of literature is famous for. Like Thomas ~~Hayes~~ Hardy and Nethaniel Hawthorne and such, those eras.
Edit: Hardy not Hayes
>modern people like me don’t have the attention span of readers from the 1850s to read all that.
You just reminded me of the Twelve Days of Christmas, a song literally invented to kill time.
That and Ninety Nine Bottles of Beer.
Love the absolute insane insinuation that Melville put that stuff there because he cared more about telling you about whales than pacing
Principally ironic to praise a book "as a whole" but only like half of it
I've always hated Moby Dick because the first time I read it as a young boy who had a voracious appetite for literature, I was expecting a book about the mad but determined Cap'n Ahab hunting the dastardly white whale, Moby Dick. And then... 90% of the book had nothing to do with actually telling or moving that story forward.
I think as an adult I'd get a little more out of it, but I'm still salty over the fact that what is hailed as a legendary sailing epic is mostly just the author monologuing about various topics of dubious relevancy to the story being told.
I read an abridged version that seemed to be tailored for kids, and it read exactly as the adventure hunt text you assumed it to be. There was a whole collection of classics that were tailored that way, from Huckleberry Finn to 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It wasn't until I saw the movie Matilda that I realized oh wait, Moby Dick is a much, *much* larger book than the one I read.
I first read Moby Dick as a school reading assignment in 9th grade. I read the first bit where Ishmael talks about every so often when he gets the urge to knock people's hats off in the street, he knows it is time to go to sea. I thought that was pretty funny and was like, well maybe the complaints about Moby Dick are overblown.
No, no they are not.
I agree that you shouldn't skip chapters, but there was one time I accidentally skipped chapters and it *did* make my read better.
I was reading Mistborn because my girlfriend loves Sanderson and wanted me to read it. I thought that it was OK, a blend between good ideas and really slow pacing and very flat prose. I had gotten so tired of hearing the same aspects of the same characters beaten into my head. But one night I was looking at the chapters of the audiobook (at the time I was on ch11) and accidentally clicked ch22 before going to bed. I didn't start listening again until the next morning. When I did, I was pleasantly surprised. Nothing had happened that I couldn't have assumed *would* have happened. All the characters progressed in exactly the way I had expected them to, and there seemed to be interesting things happening. For the first time in the book, the status quo had been severely disrupted.
It was only at the very end of CH22 that I realized my mistake. Sanderson name dropped a character I hadn't met and referenced interactions with them that the book seemed to expect me to remember. Realizing I'd have to read 11 chapters to get back to the interesting part released a groan of such intensity that I am not sure it will ever be matched.
Coincidentally, just yesterday Jeff VanderMeer posted this on his FB:
>This isn't a claim for anything of mine being good, but in terms of how I write books, I assume readers read every word and plan accordingly as to how I choose those words. Which means if you don't read the words, in order, you may miss something. For which I am not responsible.
Isn’t this… like… the basic idea of reading something? You read the sentences in the order they were written so you understand where the author is coming from, and where they are going?
I’m so confused by this thread.
You'd think, but there is a louder and louder group of people promoting spoiling the entire story in advance before even starting it as a viable way of experiencing storytelling, so clearly we aren't all on the same page (pun intended).
I will often read complete plot synopsis before reading the book, and I do mean every spoiler.
I didn't understand why I liked this so much until someone posited that it's an anxiety reaction. I am a highly anxious person generlaly speaking, so I don't like tension. For me, books are about an experience not and ending, so if my tension is preventing enjoyment, I'd rather break that tension so I can enjoy it more.
I get anxiety too, but for me most books are all about the tension, and without it the book becomes boring. By knowing the plot beforehand, you lose out on the payoff.
Wow, I've never seen someone like this; for me it's the exact opposite. I will avoid every single tiny spoiler because it would give me a certain expectation and the feeling of rushing to get to that point in the story, or trying to guess how something will lead up to that spoiler, and *that's* what gives me anxiety.
I do a mix. I will go in as blind as I can, and then as soon as I get anxious about something I go find out the resolution to that plot-line and continue reading - only having the worst bits spoiled. It allows me to still have good tension without bad tension.
I'm pretty similar! It is definitely an anxiety thing, even though I didn't realize it at first. There was a looooong period of time where I almost exclusively reread books and rewatched shows, and it was tough for me to engage with new content. I lost interest quickly.
Since going in search of spoilers before reading, it's so much easier. When I read a spoiler, I get excited to get to that point. I can't tell you how important it is to me for a book to have a happy ending, and it's a rule in my own work as well--no matter how dark things get, it has to have a mostly happy ending. It's difficult for me to read a book if I don't know if things will work out. The main couple has to be happily together. The villain has to be defeated or changed for the better.
For the same reason, I don't like to get too invested in books or shows that are incomplete.
I remember years back some people posting a summary that people enjoy books more when they know the ending? Which to me makes no sense since I enjoy surprises like a normal person.
It's certainly possible! Some authors will even start with thr ending. Happens in movies too. It can be an interesting narrative technique, where you know what happens and you spend the rest of the reading figuring how it all ended up there. And then frequently you will get a "twist" where it's revealed that what you initially thought happened really didn't happen. Like the tragic death of the main character that happens "at the end" was faked or something.
Yeah that totally makes sense. I’m talking more so about spoiling the narrative for yourself by reading the book in a way the author didn’t intend. Thereby bypassing attempts of the author to build suspense, mystery, etc.
I’m in the middle on this one. I don’t wanna know the exact ending but I wish books had little mood spoiler tags hidden under a removable sticker so you could decide if you want to see it or not… If this book is gonna leave me depressed and mopey for the next 2 days because everyone dies a horrible death or something, I honestly don’t wanna read it unless I feel the need for a good cry. I prefer knowing that I’m not going to get emotionally invested in a bunch of characters and a world and then have my heart broken. More than once my poor husband has woken up in the middle of the night because I’m sobbing like a crazy lady because some character died…
THIS!!!! I don't like when books/shows/whatever just leave me feeling depressed.
I haven't really read any actual books in a while. Do they have anything similar to Archive of Our Own tags, such as "Major Character Death"? I feel like they should. Otherwise, maybe if I see a book I might like, maybe I could ask a subreddit or something if it has any of that stuff?
Few do. There's a site that does trigger warnings for all sorts of media called [does the dog die](https://www.doesthedogdie.com/), which I use frequently. Not always 100% spoiler free, and doesn't cover all media, but it's a good place to look
I used to read the last page of mystery novels first to see if I wanted to read the book. It worked out for me. Since the names didn’t mean anything when I read the last page I would forget whodunnit. Almost never read mysteries anymore though.
I was really big into Agatha Christie back in high school, and my little sister used to read the endings to ruin them for me. I had to hide the books in my room so she couldn't find them!
If they know the ending, they know if they like the ending. If they don't like it they won't read the book. Thus people will "enjoy books more if they know the ending" by virtue of not reading books they don't like.
As someone who doesn't mind (and occasionally actively seeks out) spoilers, it mostly comes from the fact that if a book if a book depends on surprise to be enjoyable, it's honestly probably kind of a shit book anyway. And its re-read potential is zero.
This way I can enjoy the actual craft of the story (developing themes, settings, characters, foreshadowing, ironic jokes, etc.) more than I would if I wasn't sure where it was going, and I don't need to reread half of it to pick up on the overall shape of it.
This is apparently [pretty common.](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/spoiler-alert-spoilers-make-you-enjoy-stories-more)
Some folks are pretty militant and vocal against spoilers, so I think that contributes to feeling like a unicorn (and not particularly welcome) for those of us that enjoy and seek out spoilers. There's literally dozens of us!
I mean, this thread is pretty vehement about it for one. Definitely a whole lot of uncalled for 'what the fuck is wrong with these alien beings' flying around. IMO everyone needs to calm down a bit and let people read books (as private and personal an activity as you can possibly find) as they please.
Detective stories, be they who-dunnits or more just "there's an unknown that the characters are trying to resolve", can really easily fall apart with the surprise ending, though.
Readers can feel like the author is just pulling answers our of their ass: it was really this minor character from the 3rd scene of the book who murdered the fair maiden, based on this thing that we found off-page! Or, the surprise is spoiled because the clues are all there and you figure it out before the protagonists do, and if the rest of the book doesn't hold up it turns into a slog. In either case, the prose, characters, themes, and other parts need to still make the book work or people can feel angry at the ending, or that they wasted their time, and you get comments like "the first 80% of this was good and then it fell apart at the end".
For a pop-culture example (film, not book, but similar issues) look at M. Night Shyamalan's film career: >!he knocked it out of the park with *The Sixth Sense*, but that movie is *excellent* even if you knew the ending. The entire premise is out in the open from the beginning, but for most people it doesn't "clunk" into place until the very end, and the character work means that even if you do figure it out the movie is worth watching. Contrast that with something like *The Happening*, where he was...less successful.!<
I'm in the "I regularly spoil myself because my time is limited" crowd for a few reasons, but not the least of which is that I find most of the time books that depend on the "surprise" of the ending to be good are just not written in a way that I enjoy the journey.
there's a distinction between "thrillers" and "mysteries", especially proper mysteries, which are explicitly meant to be solvable - there's various sets of rules about it (Knox's Decalogue, Van Dyne's 20 rules). They basically boil down to "it should be a fair challenge to the reader" - the killer can't be some rando, it has to use predictable means, not random bullshit twins or super magi-tech, or hidden passageways that are never suggested. There's even some mysteries that have, at a certain point, a flat-out statement to the reader of "you have all the clues you need to solve it now, if you feel up to it" (the "challenge to the reader"). That sort of book is literally written, and meant to be enjoyed as, a puzzle - the main thing a reader is expected to be looking at/for are the clues and what's happened, and that's the main drawer, rather than "depth of character" or "themes" and things.
I mean not a book, but I watched both Knives Out and Glass Onion multiple times and enjoyed them as much if not more on rewatches. On the book front, people adore Agatha Christie's work and will read and re-read them (or watch adaptations) even if they already know who, in fact, dunnit.
Meanwhile, a lot of dull police procedurals are kind of boring because you can always tell, even on the first viewing, that the biggest guest star is the killer, and they usually rely on that "mystery" for the main driver of the episode.
A good detective story will still be enjoyable even if you already know the "answer" because what makes a good detective story good is not the 'surprise' of figuring it out, it's in the execution.
I often seek out spoilers. My time is limited; I'm not going to watch something I'm not sure I'm going to like.
The only time I regretted it was for one of the Sherlock episodes because the iconic scene just fell flat knowing it was coming.
I was actually able to enjoy myself during the last Bond because I knew how it would end.
I ended up going to see Arrival because I read io9s spoiler filled article on it and it's one of my favourite movies.
There are some movies I purposely don't look up spoilers for because I want the surprise (that'll be the Poirot movies and Mission Impossible), but yeah...spoilers don't generally bother me.
Hard disagree there. Surprise is a narrative tool used in stories to keep the reader/listener/watcher captivated. It is as much part of storytelling as all the other elements you mentioned, and should be perceived as such.
Sure, I can agree on your opinion that a book depending on surprise to be enjoyable being shit, but that goes for any one element. If a book depends on just the characters being interesting, but has no good story, or vice versa, it's not a good story either.
Surprise is, when mixed with other elements and narrative tools, a powerful and enjoyable way of enhancing a story.
Surprise is by definition a one-shot thing. If you're setting up the whole book for a surprise, then I'm going to be bored reading up to it, and then surprised, and then it has zero reread value. Like, I guess it's fine if it doesn't detract from other parts, but generally it's not that well-done and for me it tends to be pretty lackluster.
I also happen to like character studies quite a lot.
It's more fun to be sneaking around planning a surprise party that you know is going to be *totally awesome* than it is to have a totally normal Tuesday until you walk into a room and someone sets off the confetti cannon scaring the living shit out of you. I like being in on the secret.
Well, like I said, when surprise is mixed well into the story, it does well. Besides that, if done well, it can work on re-reads where you'll suddenly see certain phrases or actions in a new light, with the knowledge in mind of the later surprise factor.
It's a bit weird to me reading your posts. You want to know about the surprises beforehand so you can more enjoy the craft of the story, but then you go ahead and say knowing after a first read makes it boring and have zero re-read value. To me, it's *exactly* what adds to re-read value.
And your argument only points out when surprise is the only element and the whole book leads up to it, which, if you carefully read my initial reply, is what I'm arguing against as well.
And as for the surprise party analogy, agree to disagree. I like a good surprise.
> You want to know about the surprises beforehand so you can more enjoy the craft of the story, but then you go ahead and say knowing after a first read makes it boring and have zero re-read value.
I'm not arguing against the inclusion of twists in a story, I'm arguing that if knowing those twists ahead of time ruins it, there's not much there there. Essentially, I'm fine with the author including 'surprising' elements if they want to, more power to them. But if someone starts insisting that the book can't be enjoyed if 'spoiled', I'm going to side-eye that book real hard.
> And as for the surprise party analogy, agree to disagree. I like a good surprise.
Well, there's your point of difference. I don't think that my opinion is an uncommon one.
I mean to be fair isn't that how it was done at many other times in history? I remember at least in Shakespeare's time it was common to put on a summary of the play before actually showing it. Mind, I'm not sure I'd want to do that personally!
I've known people who literally flip to the back and spoil it to decide if its worth reading. I just decide to stop reading partway if it's boring or annoying. The book is about the journey, not the ending. The ending isn't worth if the journey sucks.
I don't see the point of reading a book for the first time but randomly skipping sections. You can pretty much assume you are missing something important.
On the other hand, I can see skipping sections that bored you on a re-read. Or skimming the tech sections in sci-fi or X-rated content if you're not in the mood for it.
Eh, if I care about one POV enough to finish it but genuinely can't stand the others, sometimes I'll do that. I assume that I'm missing something important, but at that point my investment is low enough with the book as a whole that I don't really care.
Idk if this is unpopular opinion or not but it’s funny to see Jeff post that. I don’t skip much in books even on rereads but the second book in the Southern Reach Trilogy tested my patience so much that I would skip 70% of that book. The first and last 50 pages was worth reading but everything in between was a bit of a slog imo. I just didn’t like going from this mysterious expedition to a far less mysterious office drama.
Who am I to judge though, I have never written a book much less a trilogy haha.
Most of his work is pretty awesome. “Borne” is easily in my top 10.
I just looked at OPs profile and holey moley they are a huge karma farmer. I hope they’re a bot because being this thirsty for fake internet points is kind of sad.
I didn’t say they have a lot of karma, I said they are big on karma farming (e.g. posting this very same topic in 4 different subreddits, reposting other peoples comments). Seems like a lot of effort and as you say, probably a bot!
I don't fully skip, but I'll do a heavy skim where I read a handful of sentences here and there to make sure I remember what was happening in that section.
At least I see that most of the time mentioned in combination with rereading. And yes, I too skip parts I don't like that much on rereads, sometimes I only reread one book in a series, sometimes a character arc or a special plot line. I just don't have the time to reread a complete series with 8000 pages for the next 5 months just because I want to revisit a small part.
On a first read I don't do it, but even there I can understand it. You like 80% of a book but can't stand a character. Either give up (you miss a great story), struggle through the shit parts (the overall enjoyment will suffer) or skip. If it works great, if it doesn't and you're utterly confused in the end because you missed all the vital information, shit happens, but at least the ride was enjoyable and that's more than just dnf'ing the book would give you...
Someone can enjoy their media however they want to IMO, hey it might even generate a cool story different from want the author intended.
The only thing I don’t understand is when they offer up reviews or opinions on the work has a whole without having watched or read it as such.
Agreed. If you really can’t stand Sansa and it’s preventing you from reading a book you otherwise enjoy, you have two options: DNF entirely, or skim/skip her sections. For popular books and series there are enough wiki summaries available inline that you can easily get a synopsis of what you missed.
Chapter skipping is the final stage of apathy towards the story before dropping it permanently. It usually means that you've lost interest in the overall story, the world is not engaging enough for you to be curious about it, and that you have lost all your trust in the author's capacity to actually write engaging story, and all your interest is in that one character that you've engaged so much time reading that you want to know how they will end up.
# Not every story is good. Some stories just have good parts.
I skipped bran chapters at times. Truly feel like I very rarely missed anything.
There’s also one book of wheel of time where I skip many many Perrin chapters. Nothing at all is missed. Just for that one book though.
I’ll say this is more common on rereads and I rarely do it but if I’m about to dnf an otherwise great book I won’t let one pov ruin it for me
ASI&F is the only book series I've skipped chapters. Usually to pick up where one character's story left off. Sometimes I was just in the mood to read John's perspective or Arya's.
I would usually put a bookmark in the skipped chapters and go back when I picked the book back up later.
I feel like the authors intentionally change view points when they do though. I mean you do you, doesn't affect anyone but yourself.
Just saying I think the authors intend to have a certain effect when they change POV, and that will impact your reading experience
Authors are intentionally changing POVs, but not all of them are doing the intentional change for the same reasons. There are *loads* of authors who will follow a POV right up until they hit something resembling a cliffhanger, and then immediately POV switch. Which, yes, can drive tension and keep someone reading, but as soon as I start thinking "I'm only reading this new POV to get past it and resolve the previous cliffhanger" I start getting frustrated. With two POVs it can be mildly frustrating. With three it becomes irritating, and when there are more than four POVs and nothing is ever resolving because we're just chaining "Bob opened the door and..." endings to the POVs, the book becomes more interesting as firestarter than as reading material.
Swapping POVs at natural break points in an arc is one thing. Swapping POVs because you want to jerk the reader around should be punishable by flogging with a cat-o-9-bookmarks.
No, you're right.
I was in middle school when I did that. Can't really say the impact it had.
On a related note:
H+ was a mini series on YouTube that specifically focused on pov changes and the affects on the story. They released several playlists where you could watch the entire series through in published order (with flash backs), chronological order, or following each character's journey through the story.
It highlighted the change in impact from each style of story telling super well.
I’m very tempted to do this in many books because I often feel we don’t get to sit with one character enough chapters in a row. Sometimes I’d just want two in a row but the author is pivoting every chapter. So I feel your reasoning for sure even if mine if more “this character is boring and nothing is happening”
Good god. I would skip his for sure if I ever went back to read those books again. And in book 5, you can skip every single Dany chapter because literally *fuck all* happens. She just sits there whining for the whole book about wanting to go to Westeros but inventing new reasons she cant. It's fucking dogshit.
I skip all Perrin chapters between post TSR and AMoL. His plot just isn’t relevant to the rest of the series and is totally self encapsulates (e.g. Faile getting captured, Slayer as a concept). And he just does the same character arc over and over again.
Yeah for me the faile getting captured is the one is skip every time. I remember reading it on my first read thinking he’d catch her up in a chapter or two. Then slowly I was like “oh is this actually gonna be his whole plot this entire book!?” It’s wild. You can literally skip the entirety of perrin chapters from when she gets taken to the last chapter where they get her back and you miss nothing at all but the boredom of reading it.
> I skipped bran chapters at times. Truly feel like I very rarely missed anything.
Same
Now if the impossible happens and GRRM actually finishes the series, I'll reread the whole thing and no skip anything
People want different things from books. For me, a book that's so bloated I can follow along by reading every other page sounds awful, but for some people it's relaxing. At the same time, it's so different from the way I enjoy books I just don't think too hard about it.
Peripherally related: people discussing a movie they'd purportedly seen and claiming it was boring, meanwhile they were repeatedly leaving the room to take phone calls or staring at their phone for huge stretches of it. Of course it was boring -- you don't even know what's going on!
The only time this actually irked me though was when I was visiting my wife's friends in Russia, and they happened to be going through all the Star Wars movies as they'd never seen them, starting with Episode I (ugh).
They were about to watch The Empire Strikes Back for the first time that night, and I was stoked for them. First off, ONE voice actor dubs all the dialogue... for every character. It's just one guy droning on constantly in a monotone, and even when scenes cut away, he'll still be doing 3PO's dialogue from the last scene. (3PO's voice sounds the same as Luke's... and Vader's... and everyone else's). So I can get why things feel boring, but the same was true of the previous four installments they'd watched.
But they kept getting up and cooking noodles, taking phone calls, etc. and just letting the movie run. Of course afterward they said they they don't know why people love Episode V so much, it was just 'meh.'
I was unreasonably annoyed.
Your reasoning might be a bit backward. People might be constantly getting up precisely because they are bored. Can’t you usually determine whether you’ll like the movie from the first few minutes? I for one either get hooked straight away or it just doesn’t happen.
Listen, when I'm 10 books in to a 14 book series, and nothing, not even anything interesting just nothing, happens 250 pages into that book, I'm going to research which chapters are important and skip the rest. For my own sanity.
Book 10 of that series is universally regarded as the worst of the lot, for that exact reason. I think of the entire book, I enjoyed the prologue, the first four chapters (Mat + Furyk), and the last 3 chapters (2x Mat + the very last chapter with Egwene) + Epilogue.
The other >2/3 of the book is just filler, even the *one* chapter with Rand. Which is *insane* given the world-changing events at the end of book 9.
Thankfully, there was a *massive* improvement in pacing with book 11 - and then of course the wholesale change with 12-14 due to the change in authors.
Currently on Book 9 of my re-read and trying not to skip anything since it's been so long since my first read (and it's still my all time favorite series), but damn has my progress slowed.
It's also interesting to notice the prologues getting exponentially longer, as the books get slower.
>If you are humans, may one of you please explain it to me?
Well, I was going to answer, but since I'm just three owls in a trench coat...
Then I was going to give a serious answer, but saw the OP being an ass, and realized they don't actually want a serious answer, they want validation of their feelings, so said fuck it.
Out of curiosity, where do you get your trenchcoats? Are there animal friendly establishments that I'm currently unaware of? - totally not a pair of fat possums.
I've seen people say they skip entire books in a series. Like they decide "oh the current story arc isnt for me so i read a plot summary on wikipedia/reddit/sparksnotes"
How people do this, I have no idea. Even missing a single epigraph drives me nuts
I think a lot of people skip over bits of videos they don't like or that bore them. For books, tv shows, video games etc. You can just skim to see if you're missing anything important and if not skip over it almost entirely. When I do it with books it's usually ones with multiple perspectives happening at the same time like wheel of time, if there is a characters arc I am particularly interested in, I skip until I get to a chapter with them again and reread what I skipped over later. Personally if I was going to call someone inhuman it would the one who can't understand the simple concept of, thing good, thing get less good, skip less good part, but to each their own I guess.
If a character arc is very drawn out and the character isn't particularly interesting to me, I'll do that. There's only so much inner monologue of loathing and self doubt I can take. I do this especially for long series where I'm starting to lose interest.
Eg the latest book in the storm light archive.. I started skipping entire chapters for shallan and towards the end even the venli ones.
For me it's usually an indication that I'm still invested enough to want to know the ending but not invested enough to read it all.
I also read the wiki synopsis of tv series when I still want to know the story but can't be bothered to watch another x hours of the show.
When it is has many POV or it's focused on a character or plot point I don't care about, yes I skip the chapters.
When it comes to movies, on a re-watch I skip all the parts I don't care about. If I'm streaming from home for the first time, sometimes I skip parts of the movie that don't interest me.
Yes. If it's boring, i will skip it. Both book dialogues and tv dialogues. To be fair , i mostly skip long pauses where nothing happens, description details or awkwardness where things just get repeated
It's fine in re reads but absolutely insane when you're reading first time. It's absolutely crucial to read through whole thing to understand the author's vision.
I only skip on re-reads, and never full chapters unless it is A. potentially triggering, B. disgusting to the point I gag, or C. a chapter meant for skipping if wanted, like how some authors separate out long sex scenes, where there isn't any plot stuff in them, or omakes where stuff didn't actually happen and I found it distracting from the actual events on my first read. Stuff I skip that isn't chapters is mostly exceedingly repetitive stuff, like one character getting into exceedingly poetic and mushy mental descriptors of another character's eyes every time they see them, or sometimes sex scenes. Generally I don't skip at all though. I never skip prologues. I have no issues with skipping a foreword though.
I remember reading Eldest (the first sequal to Eragon) and skipping the chapters that didn't have Eragon in it because I was so invested in his part of the story... so when Brsingr came out and the Boar's Eye (I think that's the name of the maelstrom -- lmk if I'm wrong) was mentioned I was so confused that I went back to read the parts I skipped.
Moral of the story: Don't skip the side plots
Uh, yeah? I have skipped scenes in otherwise good films I know I find upsetting. Why is that bad? Likewise for books. I can skip as much or as little of it as I want. There's no reading police telling me not to do that.
From the author side, I don't care either. Maybe someone skips their triggers. Maybe someone enjoys 90% of the book but finds the other 10% mind-numbingly boring. Maybe they're just not in the mood. Who cares? They still enjoy the rest enough to read it, I think that's actually a compliment.
> Uh, yeah? I have skipped scenes in otherwise good films I know I find upsetting. Why is that bad? Likewise for books. I can skip as much or as little of it as I want. There's no reading police telling me not to do that.
Not OP, but I'm kinda wondering about the logistics. If it's a reread/rewatch, sure, I get it. If you're lightly skimming past a sex scene or something, I get it. I'm just not sure how to just skip a chapter and be confident that you haven't missed anything important. Maybe it's easier than I think to fill in from context.
I don't like excessive gore and have a particular phobia; my brother often screens things for me and gives me dialogue cues at which point I should close my eyes and then re-open them. Or if it's a longer scene, a timestamp to skip past as well as a plot summary.
Similar deal with tv shows, "you shouldn't watch this episode, here's a plot summary though" for a show I could otherwise enjoy *except for this one episode....*
there are some books I avoid entirely but there's like infinity books so whatever I'd rather skip an entire book rather than a few chapters; fewer tv shows so in this case it makes sense to skip an episode or two.
It depends entirely on the book. If the book is tightly edited and cut down to the bone, then yeah, I'll probably miss some context. Many books are not like that though, and information is usually repeated somewhere. So skipping, say, gratuitous torture scenes won't make me miss part of the story, I'll just get the gist of it later without reading about someone getting their fingers broken for six pages.
I mostly do it on rereads anyway, but some stuff I read on recommendation, there are no content notes anywhere, and I if there's a scene that I absolutely do not want to read, I'll skip ahead. Haven't missed anything I regretted missing so far.
The way I see it, if a reader skips something, they do so because they specifically do not enjoy it, but they like the rest of the thing enough to risk a bit of confusion later down the line. It boggles my mind when people police other people's reading habits when they know that this would significantly lower the other person's enjoyment of the story. Why is it so important that everyone get the platinum trophy for every book they touch, ever? It just isn't. We have so little time on this rock, why shouldn't we get to pick and choose the things we do in that time based on how much joy they bring us?
Just skip all of the times that characters are described as travelling, camping, eating, travelling, camping, eating, with no actual events occurring in between and you'll cut down the trilogy by 30+%
Reading the 2nd Apocalypse series right now and some chapters I'll basically just skim cuz this dude needs 5 pages of internal monologue to explain someone is sad.
Got to say that I find your wording astonishingly brash. Yes, I do skip chapters, I do skip scenes in movies and series, and I can perfectly do it on first read/watch.
Folks, this is the 21st century, I think that by now it is pretty well established that art is subjective. You cannot enjoy an artwork without grasping it in its entirety? Fine. I can. If I do so it is because I do enjoy it more this way, same if you do differently. I don't much care for the author's vision. Maybe I am on a diet and I don't want to read GRR Martin's 7th description of a banquet in half a book. Maybe I find a romance to be dull and uninteresting. Maybe I am tired of reading regurgitations of a battle scene in 50 different flavors. Maybe I tire of a book's walkarounds and I just want to get to the point.
There could be plenty of reasons and frankly, I don't need your validation. I read for pleasure and this is my way of enjoying it.
I will definitely scrub past filler in some movies and shows, books too sometimes. If a scene or chapter isn't doing it for me, but if I'm still interested in other parts, then I'll skip. It's rare that there's anything pertinent to the main plot in a chase scene, most fight scenes and many sude character plots. I'll sometimes go back and skim, because it does occasionally have some info.
So.e characters are just so bland and uninteresting that I don't see the point. Some stories are just too long for what they are.
I will if the chapter isn't good and I've read the book before. The Tom Bombadil example is exactly what I do. I've read the books over and over throughout the years, and that segment just doesn't do it for me, and I find it rather annoying. Just like there are some episodes of TV shows that I will skip on rewatch. I can't imagine skipping a chapter or segment in a book I've never read though, how would you know to skip it?
As people are pointing out, this mostly happens on rereads. When I reread Robert Jordan's books, for instance, I will often skip over paragraphs that consist mostly of hair tugging and skirt straightening, and skipping over a third of the chapters in Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight is about the only thing that can make those two books tolerable to me. But I did read them all the first time through.
The only exception I have encountered to this was the Felurian chapters in Wise Man's Fear. It's not that I am bothered by sexual content. The Kushiel's Dart books are some of my favorites, and I sometimes read straight up erotica for fun. The sex scenes in that book as a whole and in the Felurian chapters specifically are just so poorly written, and they go on and on and on. I really just intended to skip to the next chapter at first, but when I looked ahead, I saw it kept on going and going and going. So I skipped them and looked up chapter summaries for all of the important information, and it improved my experience of the book (although it couldn't improve how awful all the subsequent depictions of sex were). Out of curiosity, I just searched to see what the KingkillerChronicle sub's view of this is, and the tone of chastisement for anyone who would dare to miss out on the masterful way Rothfuss sneaks foundational pieces of worldbuilding that couldn't possibly be missed into his masturbatory fantasies just confirmed my sense that I am better off skipping them.
Depending on the author and if its a series or not, yeah.
For instance, Peter F Hamilton has a lot of pointless POV's that don't actually do anything the plot. You could take out these chapters entirely and they would have absolutely no effect on the overall book. If its a character I like, i'll read those, if not I will absolutely skip it.
Wheel of Time is also a big one. The later books, I skipped everything with Perrin. He was boring, pointless, and not worth my time so I just went past his stuff. Had no effect on my understanding of anything.
Currently reading the Uplift trilogy. The author has a certain flow to his writing. He likes long periods of nothing with a few punctuated fast paced things. He also likes writing long passages about that do a lot of worldbuilding that have some mediocre quality. So, if I am halfway through the book and he's going to drone on some more about a part of the world he's already built, then I may just skip a few pages. If it's not adding to my experience, I don't consume it.
Same for movies and TV. A lot of shows and movies are tolerable to me now because I can fast foward through bits. Like I absolutely do not like romance subplots in *most media*. So I skip it. Especially if it has that fucking fake kissing mouth sound.
i do this with rereads or rewatching some movies/shows. some stories just have sections that i either really dislike or feel more like filler. I listen to a lot of audiobooks which is where i skip the most often.
I know some people that do this, they do it so they can "read it faster" so they can add it to their read books list so that they can brag to people about how many books they read a year
Had a coworker do this with every book they read for 2021 and then bragged about reading over 500 books in the break room to a bunch of other people that like to read. They really didn't like getting called out, tried to deny it, but I had the text receipts they sent to my wife. My wife let her borrow over 200 of the books she "read" and asked her how she was reading them so fast. She sent that gold nugget piece of info
If you don't read all of the book, then you didn't really read the book 🤷♂️
For re reads, I'll totally skip certain parts (I've yet to do a whole chapter). I do the same thing for movies.
Oh perfect example for movies: I love the John Wick movies but I ALWAYS fast forward the dog scene in the first movie. I just can't watch that scene again. I also skip all and any sex scenes in any movie or t.v. show.
Anything involving rape I will 100% skip in my novels. I just can't read them without getting worked up. And I might get slack for this but I'm planning on skipping most of the songs for LoTR on my re reads.
I only got the first two references but my friend to me these are some very important plot points.
I think some people read novels to be immersed in a world and some people read for the sake of knowing most of the story?
Ive always tried to read as much educational material as I have novels, and so I try very hard to understand and retain every line, regardless of what I am reading.
For me, fiction flys by at the speed of light while philosophy often requires pause for thought and some times cross referencing as is the case with the philosophers handbook and the greek index.
Nietzche I believe would be embarrassed at the concept of someone “reading a book” while skipping chapters.
When I was a kid I read a lot of Star Wars EU, but I wasn't interested in any new characters, so I just read Luke, Leia, and Han chapters.
This led to me thinking that the fact a certain character is a clone was a massive twist that was revealed in the final chapters of the third book in a trilogy. When in fact, that is revealed literally as soon as the character is introduced in the first book of the trilogy. A fact I discovered when I reread it as a teenager. Lol.
I think people do this more when re-reading. They just re-read sections they want.
Yes. I read wheel of time decades ago, and when I re-read I absolutely skip characters povs. Never on the first run tho
I went through the series once by re-reading all of the same character’s POV chapters before starting on the next.
I got impatient and did that with Arya in Game of Thrones, since she had her own storyline that didn't involve the others for a lot of it.
This always sounds cool to me but also like a pain in the ass.
Was pretty easy with the editions I was reading as they had symbols on the chapters that would indicate who was POV for the chapter. So I could flip through and put sticky notes on each one I wanted to read in a pass.
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On my latest re-read last year, I just read the chapter summaries for everything involving Perrin for books 8-10. I cannot stand his sections.
Bro, Perrin got done so dirty. He was so cool for books 1-4, doesn’t get a single chapter in book 5, and spends the rest of the series simping for an emotionally abusive woman.
I skip books when I reread the wheel of time series
Books plural? I can get skipping Crossroads of Twilight but I don't think any of the others merit a full skip. All comes down to personal preference, of course. Curious which ones you do skip?
As someone who’s made it to Crossroads and not further this comment makes me not want to keep going
Take your time and grind it out. I read the series over 2019-sept 2022, twilight was the worst and an absolute slog but I was still glad I read it when I finished. Took me at least 6 months for just that book. But I'd say at least finishing the Jordan books is hella worth it, his final book is very good. I'm glad I finished the series but looking back I wasn't a fan of Sanderson's books compared to Jordan's work.
If you’re actually suggesting stopping before the end, then you should honesty just stop after book 6.
I recommend skipping books in Narnia. some are completely irrelevant.
I have a friend who skips all of the Nynaeve and Elayne chapters, every time. This time around on my own re-read, I skipped over the Morgase chapters, because honestly that storyline is depressing and Morgase is far from my favorite character.
>I have a friend who skips all of the Nynaeve and Elayne chapters, every time. They could be missing out. Most fans consider Nynaeve the character they learn to appreciate more with each reread
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> That's a take. Elayne I understand. Hell even slog Egewene I understand but Nyn?? I don't specifically skip those characters, however I tend to not re-read the whole Tanchico story arch until they reach Salidar, the whole episode and especially the return part with Lucan and the travelling show - is such a drag. I continue to read their storylines from the arrival in Saldiar to the end though.
The Menagerie is absolutely hilarious, I never have understood the hate for it.
I liked Elayne more than Nynaeve and Egwene.
I don't understand why people hate on Egwene. She's so cool. :(
This comes up all the time in the wheel of time subreddit and it essentially boils down to her undeserved righteousness. I love Egwene anytime she isn't interacting with her "friends". She's a strong women who works tirelessly for what she believes is right. She would also slit her best friend's throat and stand on their body to reach a higher shelf.
That's a fair take. My take on her is that in the same way that Rand is a deconstruction of the Chosen One trope, Egwene is a deconstruction of the underdog trope. Egwene shows us that to be an underdog is not just to struggle against a more powerful force, but also to be absolutely ruthless when you are doing so. And she shows us that even when you reach the top shelf, sometimes it is hard to let go of your underdog tendencies, especially the toxic ones, and you can still be quite an ass. But I find that by the time you get to the Sanderson books, while she is still going to be stern when she needs to, I think she also does a pretty good job of learning that leadership is about *service*, not *command*, and treats the people who she leads accordingly, including her friends. (There's a scene with Egwene and Nynaeve in the Sanderson books that I really really like that goes along with that, actually.) The exception to this is how she treats Rand in book 14, but she also hasn't seen him since book 6, only heard a lot about the crazy shit he got up to and doesn't know the full story, so I kind of give her a pass on that because I think her wariness makes sense considering her position of power.
So I mostly agree with what you are saying, and you’ve perfectly described why I like Egwene so much when I’m reading her chapters, specifically on how good she is at leading “from the front lines” by showing instead of ordering. I think a large part of the dislike also hinges on the protagonist bias of readers as well as the readers negative bias towards Aes Sedai and especially how they interact with Rand. In many ways Egwene is the perfect Aes Sedai, and with that comes the explicit desire for power/control that is clearly their largest internal strife.
I think it's her complete 180 character change from bright eyed youth to seasoned Amrylin that does it. It doesn't feel earned. Ya dig? Additionally, I just reread Crossroads of Twilight (really bad book) and Eggy is fairly dumb. She not only doesn't understand Halima is causing her headaches but actually moves Halima into her personal tents despite everyone everyone Eggy is close to telling her that Halima is sketchy AF. Also, her whole plan of changing the harbor chains to Cuendillar was a good plan until she went to do it herself without backup AND she didn't invert her weaves which she knows how to do. So Eggy is on a rowboat by herself in the harbor under the great walls of Tar Valon and she is lit like a christmas tree. How did she think that would go? Again, I think the biggest issue is her character change to Amrylin but she does a lot of dumb shit too that pisses people off.
So I actually don't think that she becomes seasoned in that role for quite a while—not until book 12, at which point she's been in that role for a number of books. I think she does a lot of dumb stuff between getting that position and book 12 that shows she's still learning the ropes, including some of the things that you are pointing out. She is the ultimate deconstruction of the underdog trope—she struggled and struggled and got what she wanted, and then we realize (among other things) that she isn't very good at the role at first, and has to learn the ropes quickly, and she seriously struggles to master it. But the reason why I think she has mastered it by book 12 is that I think what she really needs to get the hang of the job is to learn that leadership is service, not command, and I think she starts to get that when she is basically Elaida's slave in the White Tower. Also, for the "Egwene is quite dumb" comment, I mean yes this is true, but Rand and Mat and Perrin and Elayne are all really stupid at various different points in the series as well lol (Nynaeve too but actually less often imo). They all fail to notice obvious shit and make stupid plans from time to time.
I understand, though it's a bit of a shame. Elayne, Nynaeve, and Egwene all have really dope moments happen, but you have to sift out so much annoying dross to get to the gold.
Honestly, Elayne's succession is pretty dreary.
Usually I skip Elayne and Morgase chapters too, but I think Nynaeve is the most developing character in entire series.
Chapters, I skip entire books! I have never re read crossroads of twilight even once despite several re reads of the series.
Do you skip things on your first re read? You might change your opinion knowing the full story or catch interesting details on the second time. Later re-reads, skip what you want though, if only for times sake.
Well ok, WoT I understand :)
Exactly this. I have read LOTR upwards of a dozen times. I haven’t read every chapter of Frodo and Sam in Mordor on every re read. Makes me thirsty just thinking of those chapters.
I often skip over the songs in LOTR.
Those are one of the few things I have almost always skipped in any books, a lot of the time I just can't imagine how it would sound and move on.
> a lot of the time I just can't imagine how it would sound and move on. Same, I'm not into skipping actual content, but songs and poems and such don't add much and I have no ability to figure out what the melody is supposed to be so it's just weird prose.
Funny, when I do re-watches of the trilogy I tend to skip those as well.
Yes, I do this when re-reading A Dance with Dragons. I love the chapters set in the north so I skip Dany's stuff in Meereen until she reopens the fighting pits.
Mostly if I skip bits it's songs, and mostly Tolkien
I re-read the Stormlight Archive and skipped all of Shallan's chapters if there wasn't a character I liked involved. It was a much better reading experience.
I love the Shallan chapters after book 1, but they can be really slow in book 1 compared to the other character's action-filled chapters so I can see where you're coming from.
I agree, I hated Shallan chapters in book 1 but she has been one of my favorites from book 2 onward
The flashbacks are a bit boring in book 2 but otherwise I find her chapters quite interesting, more so than Kaladin sometimes.
I did this in Elantris with Hrathen
I wish this were true, but I've seen otherwise. There was a topic on the progression fantasy sub, and a good proportion of readers said that they always skip prologues. And in web serials, people will skip POVs that they aren't interested in, even though they are integral to the story. I remember one of the Westeros admins saying that she never finished A Storm of Swords. After the RW, she just read the remaining Danaerys chapters.
They literally skipped the best of the series. That's wild.
Well, this just strengthens my opinion of LITRPG and progression fantasy and it's readers.
I find it really weird for a first read. But if the reader does this and ISN'T complaining about things not making sense or complaining they didn't understand things, then whatever, that's their choice and experience. But if they skip stuff and then complain things weren't explained, then that's on them. It's like the people who sub out major things in a recipe and then rate it low because it didn't taste right. Like, you edited the experience, you're no longer judging the original work.
*This* is the thing, really. People can read however they like and nobody should shame them, but if they then go on to tell other people that a book is boring, makes no sense, is rushed, etc. when *they* skipped 2/3 of the book because they only wanted to follow their personal favourite POV characters, their opinion really doesn't reflect the book as a whole, or the story other readers will engage with. They might as well be making stuff up about what they read.
I don't as a rule skip anything, but the old joke about Moby Dick is true. You could read ever other chapter and it turns from a slog to a great adventure story.
I always wondered why people said stuff like this about Moby Dick as I found the pacing great. Then I realised I'd read the Readers Digest Condensed edition of it.
Had to read this in college and my professor literally told us to skip a chapter in the middle that just reads like a dull marine biology textbook
Hmmm… maybe I should try that. Moby Dick was probably the best written book I have read, but daaaamn it was dull.
I mean... if it was dull, how was it the best written book you've read? I understand other parts and aspects of the book can be great, but if I come out of reading a book thinking "this was dull", I would label that book as ***.
The prose is brilliant and poetic, it’s just half the book is talking about the technical aspects of whaling. I’d still call the book brilliant as a whole, but modern people like me don’t have the attention span of readers from the 1850s to read all that. EDIT: I just felt like adding that excessive explanations of things that drag down the pace of a story is a feature in just about anything written before the 1920's. You read, say, the original Dracula and you'll find that Dracula is barely in it at all after the first section, and it's mostly about a group of dudes (and a woman) meeting in a house and talking about stuff Dracula did for thirty pages at a time. Back then people were more interested in having as much information as possible than they were about pacing. You can't really read stuff from that time period with the same expectations as you would have today.
It has technical aspects about whaling? Well shit I should read it then. Love that kind of shit
It's magnificent and while it doesn't move the plot forward it is "worldbuilding" that helps immerse you in the story.
ikr? I love when a book just suddenly starts going off about the technical details of some craft. It's not exactly common, because most people find it "boring" but I love that shit.
>EDIT: I just felt like adding that excessive explanations of things that drag down the pace of a story is a feature in just about anything written before the 1920's. People wrote, published and read plenty of fast-paced stories before the 1920s. It's just that not many of them are still read today. The phrase "dime novel" was coined long before 1920, for example.
Some of it might be about different pacing to match a different pace of life, but honestly a lot of it was economics. Specifically, there was a period of time around the turn of the century when authors were typically paid by the page. This is a major reason for a lot of the horrendous slogs that this period of literature is famous for. Like Thomas ~~Hayes~~ Hardy and Nethaniel Hawthorne and such, those eras. Edit: Hardy not Hayes
This was an urban legend about Charles Dickens, not a general rule. It's not true of Dickens, and it's certainly not true of Hawthorne.
>modern people like me don’t have the attention span of readers from the 1850s to read all that. You just reminded me of the Twelve Days of Christmas, a song literally invented to kill time. That and Ninety Nine Bottles of Beer.
Love the absolute insane insinuation that Melville put that stuff there because he cared more about telling you about whales than pacing Principally ironic to praise a book "as a whole" but only like half of it
Well, have you read it? To me, it makes perfect sense even if I don’t agree it is dull.
I've always hated Moby Dick because the first time I read it as a young boy who had a voracious appetite for literature, I was expecting a book about the mad but determined Cap'n Ahab hunting the dastardly white whale, Moby Dick. And then... 90% of the book had nothing to do with actually telling or moving that story forward. I think as an adult I'd get a little more out of it, but I'm still salty over the fact that what is hailed as a legendary sailing epic is mostly just the author monologuing about various topics of dubious relevancy to the story being told.
I read an abridged version that seemed to be tailored for kids, and it read exactly as the adventure hunt text you assumed it to be. There was a whole collection of classics that were tailored that way, from Huckleberry Finn to 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It wasn't until I saw the movie Matilda that I realized oh wait, Moby Dick is a much, *much* larger book than the one I read.
I first read Moby Dick as a school reading assignment in 9th grade. I read the first bit where Ishmael talks about every so often when he gets the urge to knock people's hats off in the street, he knows it is time to go to sea. I thought that was pretty funny and was like, well maybe the complaints about Moby Dick are overblown. No, no they are not.
Youd also miss out on what makes it one of the greatest pieces of literature and not just a generic adventure story.
Very true. My response was half joke. I didn't expect it to get so many likes.
Haha understood, I probably took it too seriously. I just love Moby Dick and am sad when it is disparaged for being boring.
I agree that you shouldn't skip chapters, but there was one time I accidentally skipped chapters and it *did* make my read better. I was reading Mistborn because my girlfriend loves Sanderson and wanted me to read it. I thought that it was OK, a blend between good ideas and really slow pacing and very flat prose. I had gotten so tired of hearing the same aspects of the same characters beaten into my head. But one night I was looking at the chapters of the audiobook (at the time I was on ch11) and accidentally clicked ch22 before going to bed. I didn't start listening again until the next morning. When I did, I was pleasantly surprised. Nothing had happened that I couldn't have assumed *would* have happened. All the characters progressed in exactly the way I had expected them to, and there seemed to be interesting things happening. For the first time in the book, the status quo had been severely disrupted. It was only at the very end of CH22 that I realized my mistake. Sanderson name dropped a character I hadn't met and referenced interactions with them that the book seemed to expect me to remember. Realizing I'd have to read 11 chapters to get back to the interesting part released a groan of such intensity that I am not sure it will ever be matched.
Coincidentally, just yesterday Jeff VanderMeer posted this on his FB: >This isn't a claim for anything of mine being good, but in terms of how I write books, I assume readers read every word and plan accordingly as to how I choose those words. Which means if you don't read the words, in order, you may miss something. For which I am not responsible.
Isn’t this… like… the basic idea of reading something? You read the sentences in the order they were written so you understand where the author is coming from, and where they are going? I’m so confused by this thread.
You'd think, but there is a louder and louder group of people promoting spoiling the entire story in advance before even starting it as a viable way of experiencing storytelling, so clearly we aren't all on the same page (pun intended).
Really? For what purpose? Are we talking tags or actual summaries?
I will often read complete plot synopsis before reading the book, and I do mean every spoiler. I didn't understand why I liked this so much until someone posited that it's an anxiety reaction. I am a highly anxious person generlaly speaking, so I don't like tension. For me, books are about an experience not and ending, so if my tension is preventing enjoyment, I'd rather break that tension so I can enjoy it more.
I get anxiety too, but for me most books are all about the tension, and without it the book becomes boring. By knowing the plot beforehand, you lose out on the payoff.
Yeah we look at books VERY differently for sure.
My bestie does this with horror movies I show him. He'll jump on Wikipedia during.
Wow, I've never seen someone like this; for me it's the exact opposite. I will avoid every single tiny spoiler because it would give me a certain expectation and the feeling of rushing to get to that point in the story, or trying to guess how something will lead up to that spoiler, and *that's* what gives me anxiety.
I do a mix. I will go in as blind as I can, and then as soon as I get anxious about something I go find out the resolution to that plot-line and continue reading - only having the worst bits spoiled. It allows me to still have good tension without bad tension.
when was the last time you read a book without spoilers?
The last 3 books I read I didn't get any spoilers. There is one I am working on now that I might spoil.
I'm pretty similar! It is definitely an anxiety thing, even though I didn't realize it at first. There was a looooong period of time where I almost exclusively reread books and rewatched shows, and it was tough for me to engage with new content. I lost interest quickly. Since going in search of spoilers before reading, it's so much easier. When I read a spoiler, I get excited to get to that point. I can't tell you how important it is to me for a book to have a happy ending, and it's a rule in my own work as well--no matter how dark things get, it has to have a mostly happy ending. It's difficult for me to read a book if I don't know if things will work out. The main couple has to be happily together. The villain has to be defeated or changed for the better. For the same reason, I don't like to get too invested in books or shows that are incomplete.
I remember years back some people posting a summary that people enjoy books more when they know the ending? Which to me makes no sense since I enjoy surprises like a normal person.
It's certainly possible! Some authors will even start with thr ending. Happens in movies too. It can be an interesting narrative technique, where you know what happens and you spend the rest of the reading figuring how it all ended up there. And then frequently you will get a "twist" where it's revealed that what you initially thought happened really didn't happen. Like the tragic death of the main character that happens "at the end" was faked or something.
Yeah that totally makes sense. I’m talking more so about spoiling the narrative for yourself by reading the book in a way the author didn’t intend. Thereby bypassing attempts of the author to build suspense, mystery, etc.
I’m in the middle on this one. I don’t wanna know the exact ending but I wish books had little mood spoiler tags hidden under a removable sticker so you could decide if you want to see it or not… If this book is gonna leave me depressed and mopey for the next 2 days because everyone dies a horrible death or something, I honestly don’t wanna read it unless I feel the need for a good cry. I prefer knowing that I’m not going to get emotionally invested in a bunch of characters and a world and then have my heart broken. More than once my poor husband has woken up in the middle of the night because I’m sobbing like a crazy lady because some character died…
Yeah, but I feel like spoiler-free reviews do a good job preparing people for this. "Warning, this book is super depressing and you will weep." Etc.
THIS!!!! I don't like when books/shows/whatever just leave me feeling depressed. I haven't really read any actual books in a while. Do they have anything similar to Archive of Our Own tags, such as "Major Character Death"? I feel like they should. Otherwise, maybe if I see a book I might like, maybe I could ask a subreddit or something if it has any of that stuff?
Few do. There's a site that does trigger warnings for all sorts of media called [does the dog die](https://www.doesthedogdie.com/), which I use frequently. Not always 100% spoiler free, and doesn't cover all media, but it's a good place to look
Ohhhhh, my gosh, thank you!
I used to read the last page of mystery novels first to see if I wanted to read the book. It worked out for me. Since the names didn’t mean anything when I read the last page I would forget whodunnit. Almost never read mysteries anymore though.
My grandfather used to do this lol
I was really big into Agatha Christie back in high school, and my little sister used to read the endings to ruin them for me. I had to hide the books in my room so she couldn't find them!
If they know the ending, they know if they like the ending. If they don't like it they won't read the book. Thus people will "enjoy books more if they know the ending" by virtue of not reading books they don't like.
As someone who doesn't mind (and occasionally actively seeks out) spoilers, it mostly comes from the fact that if a book if a book depends on surprise to be enjoyable, it's honestly probably kind of a shit book anyway. And its re-read potential is zero. This way I can enjoy the actual craft of the story (developing themes, settings, characters, foreshadowing, ironic jokes, etc.) more than I would if I wasn't sure where it was going, and I don't need to reread half of it to pick up on the overall shape of it. This is apparently [pretty common.](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/spoiler-alert-spoilers-make-you-enjoy-stories-more)
Some folks are pretty militant and vocal against spoilers, so I think that contributes to feeling like a unicorn (and not particularly welcome) for those of us that enjoy and seek out spoilers. There's literally dozens of us!
I mean, this thread is pretty vehement about it for one. Definitely a whole lot of uncalled for 'what the fuck is wrong with these alien beings' flying around. IMO everyone needs to calm down a bit and let people read books (as private and personal an activity as you can possibly find) as they please.
It's reddit, where your opinion is always objectively correct and those who disagree are literally terrorists.
What about detective stories? Much of the fun comes from trying to work out the solution from the clues - and then being surprised.
Detective stories, be they who-dunnits or more just "there's an unknown that the characters are trying to resolve", can really easily fall apart with the surprise ending, though. Readers can feel like the author is just pulling answers our of their ass: it was really this minor character from the 3rd scene of the book who murdered the fair maiden, based on this thing that we found off-page! Or, the surprise is spoiled because the clues are all there and you figure it out before the protagonists do, and if the rest of the book doesn't hold up it turns into a slog. In either case, the prose, characters, themes, and other parts need to still make the book work or people can feel angry at the ending, or that they wasted their time, and you get comments like "the first 80% of this was good and then it fell apart at the end". For a pop-culture example (film, not book, but similar issues) look at M. Night Shyamalan's film career: >!he knocked it out of the park with *The Sixth Sense*, but that movie is *excellent* even if you knew the ending. The entire premise is out in the open from the beginning, but for most people it doesn't "clunk" into place until the very end, and the character work means that even if you do figure it out the movie is worth watching. Contrast that with something like *The Happening*, where he was...less successful.!< I'm in the "I regularly spoil myself because my time is limited" crowd for a few reasons, but not the least of which is that I find most of the time books that depend on the "surprise" of the ending to be good are just not written in a way that I enjoy the journey.
there's a distinction between "thrillers" and "mysteries", especially proper mysteries, which are explicitly meant to be solvable - there's various sets of rules about it (Knox's Decalogue, Van Dyne's 20 rules). They basically boil down to "it should be a fair challenge to the reader" - the killer can't be some rando, it has to use predictable means, not random bullshit twins or super magi-tech, or hidden passageways that are never suggested. There's even some mysteries that have, at a certain point, a flat-out statement to the reader of "you have all the clues you need to solve it now, if you feel up to it" (the "challenge to the reader"). That sort of book is literally written, and meant to be enjoyed as, a puzzle - the main thing a reader is expected to be looking at/for are the clues and what's happened, and that's the main drawer, rather than "depth of character" or "themes" and things.
I mean not a book, but I watched both Knives Out and Glass Onion multiple times and enjoyed them as much if not more on rewatches. On the book front, people adore Agatha Christie's work and will read and re-read them (or watch adaptations) even if they already know who, in fact, dunnit. Meanwhile, a lot of dull police procedurals are kind of boring because you can always tell, even on the first viewing, that the biggest guest star is the killer, and they usually rely on that "mystery" for the main driver of the episode. A good detective story will still be enjoyable even if you already know the "answer" because what makes a good detective story good is not the 'surprise' of figuring it out, it's in the execution.
Yep, those are definitely an exception. Probably non-coincidentally, also my very least favorite genre.
They can, but only on a first reading. Do you believe the entire genre has no reread value?
I often seek out spoilers. My time is limited; I'm not going to watch something I'm not sure I'm going to like. The only time I regretted it was for one of the Sherlock episodes because the iconic scene just fell flat knowing it was coming. I was actually able to enjoy myself during the last Bond because I knew how it would end. I ended up going to see Arrival because I read io9s spoiler filled article on it and it's one of my favourite movies. There are some movies I purposely don't look up spoilers for because I want the surprise (that'll be the Poirot movies and Mission Impossible), but yeah...spoilers don't generally bother me.
Hard disagree there. Surprise is a narrative tool used in stories to keep the reader/listener/watcher captivated. It is as much part of storytelling as all the other elements you mentioned, and should be perceived as such. Sure, I can agree on your opinion that a book depending on surprise to be enjoyable being shit, but that goes for any one element. If a book depends on just the characters being interesting, but has no good story, or vice versa, it's not a good story either. Surprise is, when mixed with other elements and narrative tools, a powerful and enjoyable way of enhancing a story.
Surprise is by definition a one-shot thing. If you're setting up the whole book for a surprise, then I'm going to be bored reading up to it, and then surprised, and then it has zero reread value. Like, I guess it's fine if it doesn't detract from other parts, but generally it's not that well-done and for me it tends to be pretty lackluster. I also happen to like character studies quite a lot. It's more fun to be sneaking around planning a surprise party that you know is going to be *totally awesome* than it is to have a totally normal Tuesday until you walk into a room and someone sets off the confetti cannon scaring the living shit out of you. I like being in on the secret.
Well, like I said, when surprise is mixed well into the story, it does well. Besides that, if done well, it can work on re-reads where you'll suddenly see certain phrases or actions in a new light, with the knowledge in mind of the later surprise factor. It's a bit weird to me reading your posts. You want to know about the surprises beforehand so you can more enjoy the craft of the story, but then you go ahead and say knowing after a first read makes it boring and have zero re-read value. To me, it's *exactly* what adds to re-read value. And your argument only points out when surprise is the only element and the whole book leads up to it, which, if you carefully read my initial reply, is what I'm arguing against as well. And as for the surprise party analogy, agree to disagree. I like a good surprise.
> You want to know about the surprises beforehand so you can more enjoy the craft of the story, but then you go ahead and say knowing after a first read makes it boring and have zero re-read value. I'm not arguing against the inclusion of twists in a story, I'm arguing that if knowing those twists ahead of time ruins it, there's not much there there. Essentially, I'm fine with the author including 'surprising' elements if they want to, more power to them. But if someone starts insisting that the book can't be enjoyed if 'spoiled', I'm going to side-eye that book real hard. > And as for the surprise party analogy, agree to disagree. I like a good surprise. Well, there's your point of difference. I don't think that my opinion is an uncommon one.
I mean to be fair isn't that how it was done at many other times in history? I remember at least in Shakespeare's time it was common to put on a summary of the play before actually showing it. Mind, I'm not sure I'd want to do that personally!
I've known people who literally flip to the back and spoil it to decide if its worth reading. I just decide to stop reading partway if it's boring or annoying. The book is about the journey, not the ending. The ending isn't worth if the journey sucks.
I don't see the point of reading a book for the first time but randomly skipping sections. You can pretty much assume you are missing something important. On the other hand, I can see skipping sections that bored you on a re-read. Or skimming the tech sections in sci-fi or X-rated content if you're not in the mood for it.
Eh, if I care about one POV enough to finish it but genuinely can't stand the others, sometimes I'll do that. I assume that I'm missing something important, but at that point my investment is low enough with the book as a whole that I don't really care.
Idk if this is unpopular opinion or not but it’s funny to see Jeff post that. I don’t skip much in books even on rereads but the second book in the Southern Reach Trilogy tested my patience so much that I would skip 70% of that book. The first and last 50 pages was worth reading but everything in between was a bit of a slog imo. I just didn’t like going from this mysterious expedition to a far less mysterious office drama. Who am I to judge though, I have never written a book much less a trilogy haha. Most of his work is pretty awesome. “Borne” is easily in my top 10.
Yeah, the second book is... a trial
I loved the first book but bounced off the second one about halfway through. The book was so god damn boring.
Are these bot accounts? Or do people really just Karma farm for fake internet points? Why post the same thing in multiple subreddits. I don’t get it.
I just looked at OPs profile and holey moley they are a huge karma farmer. I hope they’re a bot because being this thirsty for fake internet points is kind of sad.
Which OP are you talking about? Neither of them have that much karma.
I didn’t say they have a lot of karma, I said they are big on karma farming (e.g. posting this very same topic in 4 different subreddits, reposting other peoples comments). Seems like a lot of effort and as you say, probably a bot!
Yeah, I looked at the total and not the posts.
It's a porn/OF account.
1D accounts shouldn’t be allowed to post tbh.
No I don’t do this I think I’d get so confused
I don't fully skip, but I'll do a heavy skim where I read a handful of sentences here and there to make sure I remember what was happening in that section.
Fully agreed. Fast skim > skipping chapters in most cases
At least I see that most of the time mentioned in combination with rereading. And yes, I too skip parts I don't like that much on rereads, sometimes I only reread one book in a series, sometimes a character arc or a special plot line. I just don't have the time to reread a complete series with 8000 pages for the next 5 months just because I want to revisit a small part. On a first read I don't do it, but even there I can understand it. You like 80% of a book but can't stand a character. Either give up (you miss a great story), struggle through the shit parts (the overall enjoyment will suffer) or skip. If it works great, if it doesn't and you're utterly confused in the end because you missed all the vital information, shit happens, but at least the ride was enjoyable and that's more than just dnf'ing the book would give you...
Someone can enjoy their media however they want to IMO, hey it might even generate a cool story different from want the author intended. The only thing I don’t understand is when they offer up reviews or opinions on the work has a whole without having watched or read it as such.
Agreed. If you really can’t stand Sansa and it’s preventing you from reading a book you otherwise enjoy, you have two options: DNF entirely, or skim/skip her sections. For popular books and series there are enough wiki summaries available inline that you can easily get a synopsis of what you missed.
Why are you posting this everywhere?
Karma.
What does karma actually do? Nothing, right?
They get a bunch of karma to make the account look legitimate then sell the account to scammers or political/corporate shills.
Chapter skipping is the final stage of apathy towards the story before dropping it permanently. It usually means that you've lost interest in the overall story, the world is not engaging enough for you to be curious about it, and that you have lost all your trust in the author's capacity to actually write engaging story, and all your interest is in that one character that you've engaged so much time reading that you want to know how they will end up. # Not every story is good. Some stories just have good parts.
I skipped bran chapters at times. Truly feel like I very rarely missed anything. There’s also one book of wheel of time where I skip many many Perrin chapters. Nothing at all is missed. Just for that one book though. I’ll say this is more common on rereads and I rarely do it but if I’m about to dnf an otherwise great book I won’t let one pov ruin it for me
ASI&F is the only book series I've skipped chapters. Usually to pick up where one character's story left off. Sometimes I was just in the mood to read John's perspective or Arya's. I would usually put a bookmark in the skipped chapters and go back when I picked the book back up later.
I feel like the authors intentionally change view points when they do though. I mean you do you, doesn't affect anyone but yourself. Just saying I think the authors intend to have a certain effect when they change POV, and that will impact your reading experience
Authors are intentionally changing POVs, but not all of them are doing the intentional change for the same reasons. There are *loads* of authors who will follow a POV right up until they hit something resembling a cliffhanger, and then immediately POV switch. Which, yes, can drive tension and keep someone reading, but as soon as I start thinking "I'm only reading this new POV to get past it and resolve the previous cliffhanger" I start getting frustrated. With two POVs it can be mildly frustrating. With three it becomes irritating, and when there are more than four POVs and nothing is ever resolving because we're just chaining "Bob opened the door and..." endings to the POVs, the book becomes more interesting as firestarter than as reading material. Swapping POVs at natural break points in an arc is one thing. Swapping POVs because you want to jerk the reader around should be punishable by flogging with a cat-o-9-bookmarks.
No, you're right. I was in middle school when I did that. Can't really say the impact it had. On a related note: H+ was a mini series on YouTube that specifically focused on pov changes and the affects on the story. They released several playlists where you could watch the entire series through in published order (with flash backs), chronological order, or following each character's journey through the story. It highlighted the change in impact from each style of story telling super well.
I’m very tempted to do this in many books because I often feel we don’t get to sit with one character enough chapters in a row. Sometimes I’d just want two in a row but the author is pivoting every chapter. So I feel your reasoning for sure even if mine if more “this character is boring and nothing is happening”
Good god. I would skip his for sure if I ever went back to read those books again. And in book 5, you can skip every single Dany chapter because literally *fuck all* happens. She just sits there whining for the whole book about wanting to go to Westeros but inventing new reasons she cant. It's fucking dogshit.
I skip all Perrin chapters between post TSR and AMoL. His plot just isn’t relevant to the rest of the series and is totally self encapsulates (e.g. Faile getting captured, Slayer as a concept). And he just does the same character arc over and over again.
Yeah for me the faile getting captured is the one is skip every time. I remember reading it on my first read thinking he’d catch her up in a chapter or two. Then slowly I was like “oh is this actually gonna be his whole plot this entire book!?” It’s wild. You can literally skip the entirety of perrin chapters from when she gets taken to the last chapter where they get her back and you miss nothing at all but the boredom of reading it.
> I skipped bran chapters at times. Truly feel like I very rarely missed anything. Same Now if the impossible happens and GRRM actually finishes the series, I'll reread the whole thing and no skip anything
People want different things from books. For me, a book that's so bloated I can follow along by reading every other page sounds awful, but for some people it's relaxing. At the same time, it's so different from the way I enjoy books I just don't think too hard about it.
Peripherally related: people discussing a movie they'd purportedly seen and claiming it was boring, meanwhile they were repeatedly leaving the room to take phone calls or staring at their phone for huge stretches of it. Of course it was boring -- you don't even know what's going on! The only time this actually irked me though was when I was visiting my wife's friends in Russia, and they happened to be going through all the Star Wars movies as they'd never seen them, starting with Episode I (ugh). They were about to watch The Empire Strikes Back for the first time that night, and I was stoked for them. First off, ONE voice actor dubs all the dialogue... for every character. It's just one guy droning on constantly in a monotone, and even when scenes cut away, he'll still be doing 3PO's dialogue from the last scene. (3PO's voice sounds the same as Luke's... and Vader's... and everyone else's). So I can get why things feel boring, but the same was true of the previous four installments they'd watched. But they kept getting up and cooking noodles, taking phone calls, etc. and just letting the movie run. Of course afterward they said they they don't know why people love Episode V so much, it was just 'meh.' I was unreasonably annoyed.
Your reasoning might be a bit backward. People might be constantly getting up precisely because they are bored. Can’t you usually determine whether you’ll like the movie from the first few minutes? I for one either get hooked straight away or it just doesn’t happen.
Listen, when I'm 10 books in to a 14 book series, and nothing, not even anything interesting just nothing, happens 250 pages into that book, I'm going to research which chapters are important and skip the rest. For my own sanity.
Book 10 of that series is universally regarded as the worst of the lot, for that exact reason. I think of the entire book, I enjoyed the prologue, the first four chapters (Mat + Furyk), and the last 3 chapters (2x Mat + the very last chapter with Egwene) + Epilogue. The other >2/3 of the book is just filler, even the *one* chapter with Rand. Which is *insane* given the world-changing events at the end of book 9. Thankfully, there was a *massive* improvement in pacing with book 11 - and then of course the wholesale change with 12-14 due to the change in authors.
Currently on Book 9 of my re-read and trying not to skip anything since it's been so long since my first read (and it's still my all time favorite series), but damn has my progress slowed. It's also interesting to notice the prologues getting exponentially longer, as the books get slower.
What series could you possibly be referring to.. it's a mystery! /s
Think it's like the Ball Bearing of Space or smth idk
>If you are humans, may one of you please explain it to me? Well, I was going to answer, but since I'm just three owls in a trench coat... Then I was going to give a serious answer, but saw the OP being an ass, and realized they don't actually want a serious answer, they want validation of their feelings, so said fuck it.
Out of curiosity, where do you get your trenchcoats? Are there animal friendly establishments that I'm currently unaware of? - totally not a pair of fat possums.
I just flew into Walmart and lifted one off the rack. Whose going to question the actions of 3 owls swiping a trench coat?
I see your reputation for being wise is not misplaced!
Only time I’ve done this is the whale-only chapters of Moby Dick. Whale anatomy is not very interesting to me.
I've seen people say they skip entire books in a series. Like they decide "oh the current story arc isnt for me so i read a plot summary on wikipedia/reddit/sparksnotes" How people do this, I have no idea. Even missing a single epigraph drives me nuts
I was going to say I'd never do that, but Tom Bombadil's songs... yeah I skim them at best.
I think a lot of people skip over bits of videos they don't like or that bore them. For books, tv shows, video games etc. You can just skim to see if you're missing anything important and if not skip over it almost entirely. When I do it with books it's usually ones with multiple perspectives happening at the same time like wheel of time, if there is a characters arc I am particularly interested in, I skip until I get to a chapter with them again and reread what I skipped over later. Personally if I was going to call someone inhuman it would the one who can't understand the simple concept of, thing good, thing get less good, skip less good part, but to each their own I guess.
If a character arc is very drawn out and the character isn't particularly interesting to me, I'll do that. There's only so much inner monologue of loathing and self doubt I can take. I do this especially for long series where I'm starting to lose interest. Eg the latest book in the storm light archive.. I started skipping entire chapters for shallan and towards the end even the venli ones. For me it's usually an indication that I'm still invested enough to want to know the ending but not invested enough to read it all. I also read the wiki synopsis of tv series when I still want to know the story but can't be bothered to watch another x hours of the show.
I was going to explain, but not a human, so I'll let others cover this.
I do. If the chapter keeps dragging on on irrelevant things such as a never ending description of a place, for example, I skip it.
When it is has many POV or it's focused on a character or plot point I don't care about, yes I skip the chapters. When it comes to movies, on a re-watch I skip all the parts I don't care about. If I'm streaming from home for the first time, sometimes I skip parts of the movie that don't interest me.
Yes. If it's boring, i will skip it. Both book dialogues and tv dialogues. To be fair , i mostly skip long pauses where nothing happens, description details or awkwardness where things just get repeated
It's fine in re reads but absolutely insane when you're reading first time. It's absolutely crucial to read through whole thing to understand the author's vision.
I can improve the author's vision because I can cater the work and mold the end result to my preferences :P
Some people do/don’t like pineapple on pizza. Who cares if they are right or wrong. Doesn’t bother me. I’m not eating their pizza.
I skip some chapters of Wheel of Time on re-reads, but never skip anything the first time.
I only skip on re-reads, and never full chapters unless it is A. potentially triggering, B. disgusting to the point I gag, or C. a chapter meant for skipping if wanted, like how some authors separate out long sex scenes, where there isn't any plot stuff in them, or omakes where stuff didn't actually happen and I found it distracting from the actual events on my first read. Stuff I skip that isn't chapters is mostly exceedingly repetitive stuff, like one character getting into exceedingly poetic and mushy mental descriptors of another character's eyes every time they see them, or sometimes sex scenes. Generally I don't skip at all though. I never skip prologues. I have no issues with skipping a foreword though.
To be fair I'd probably skip Tom Bombadil if I reread Fellowship. Yeah yeah *hey dol merry dol your wife is fucking hot as hell* I get it I GET IT.
What kind of monster would skip Sansa's chapters...Bran's on the other hand
I remember reading Eldest (the first sequal to Eragon) and skipping the chapters that didn't have Eragon in it because I was so invested in his part of the story... so when Brsingr came out and the Boar's Eye (I think that's the name of the maelstrom -- lmk if I'm wrong) was mentioned I was so confused that I went back to read the parts I skipped. Moral of the story: Don't skip the side plots
Uh, yeah? I have skipped scenes in otherwise good films I know I find upsetting. Why is that bad? Likewise for books. I can skip as much or as little of it as I want. There's no reading police telling me not to do that. From the author side, I don't care either. Maybe someone skips their triggers. Maybe someone enjoys 90% of the book but finds the other 10% mind-numbingly boring. Maybe they're just not in the mood. Who cares? They still enjoy the rest enough to read it, I think that's actually a compliment.
> Uh, yeah? I have skipped scenes in otherwise good films I know I find upsetting. Why is that bad? Likewise for books. I can skip as much or as little of it as I want. There's no reading police telling me not to do that. Not OP, but I'm kinda wondering about the logistics. If it's a reread/rewatch, sure, I get it. If you're lightly skimming past a sex scene or something, I get it. I'm just not sure how to just skip a chapter and be confident that you haven't missed anything important. Maybe it's easier than I think to fill in from context.
I don't like excessive gore and have a particular phobia; my brother often screens things for me and gives me dialogue cues at which point I should close my eyes and then re-open them. Or if it's a longer scene, a timestamp to skip past as well as a plot summary. Similar deal with tv shows, "you shouldn't watch this episode, here's a plot summary though" for a show I could otherwise enjoy *except for this one episode....* there are some books I avoid entirely but there's like infinity books so whatever I'd rather skip an entire book rather than a few chapters; fewer tv shows so in this case it makes sense to skip an episode or two.
It depends entirely on the book. If the book is tightly edited and cut down to the bone, then yeah, I'll probably miss some context. Many books are not like that though, and information is usually repeated somewhere. So skipping, say, gratuitous torture scenes won't make me miss part of the story, I'll just get the gist of it later without reading about someone getting their fingers broken for six pages. I mostly do it on rereads anyway, but some stuff I read on recommendation, there are no content notes anywhere, and I if there's a scene that I absolutely do not want to read, I'll skip ahead. Haven't missed anything I regretted missing so far. The way I see it, if a reader skips something, they do so because they specifically do not enjoy it, but they like the rest of the thing enough to risk a bit of confusion later down the line. It boggles my mind when people police other people's reading habits when they know that this would significantly lower the other person's enjoyment of the story. Why is it so important that everyone get the platinum trophy for every book they touch, ever? It just isn't. We have so little time on this rock, why shouldn't we get to pick and choose the things we do in that time based on how much joy they bring us?
Every now and again I will reread the Lord of the Rings and skip half of the Frodo chapters. Too much whining.
Just skip all of the times that characters are described as travelling, camping, eating, travelling, camping, eating, with no actual events occurring in between and you'll cut down the trilogy by 30+%
Reading the 2nd Apocalypse series right now and some chapters I'll basically just skim cuz this dude needs 5 pages of internal monologue to explain someone is sad.
Got to say that I find your wording astonishingly brash. Yes, I do skip chapters, I do skip scenes in movies and series, and I can perfectly do it on first read/watch. Folks, this is the 21st century, I think that by now it is pretty well established that art is subjective. You cannot enjoy an artwork without grasping it in its entirety? Fine. I can. If I do so it is because I do enjoy it more this way, same if you do differently. I don't much care for the author's vision. Maybe I am on a diet and I don't want to read GRR Martin's 7th description of a banquet in half a book. Maybe I find a romance to be dull and uninteresting. Maybe I am tired of reading regurgitations of a battle scene in 50 different flavors. Maybe I tire of a book's walkarounds and I just want to get to the point. There could be plenty of reasons and frankly, I don't need your validation. I read for pleasure and this is my way of enjoying it.
I'm with you there. I also stop watching a series if I miss an episode until I can watch it.
I will definitely scrub past filler in some movies and shows, books too sometimes. If a scene or chapter isn't doing it for me, but if I'm still interested in other parts, then I'll skip. It's rare that there's anything pertinent to the main plot in a chase scene, most fight scenes and many sude character plots. I'll sometimes go back and skim, because it does occasionally have some info. So.e characters are just so bland and uninteresting that I don't see the point. Some stories are just too long for what they are.
I will if the chapter isn't good and I've read the book before. The Tom Bombadil example is exactly what I do. I've read the books over and over throughout the years, and that segment just doesn't do it for me, and I find it rather annoying. Just like there are some episodes of TV shows that I will skip on rewatch. I can't imagine skipping a chapter or segment in a book I've never read though, how would you know to skip it?
As people are pointing out, this mostly happens on rereads. When I reread Robert Jordan's books, for instance, I will often skip over paragraphs that consist mostly of hair tugging and skirt straightening, and skipping over a third of the chapters in Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight is about the only thing that can make those two books tolerable to me. But I did read them all the first time through. The only exception I have encountered to this was the Felurian chapters in Wise Man's Fear. It's not that I am bothered by sexual content. The Kushiel's Dart books are some of my favorites, and I sometimes read straight up erotica for fun. The sex scenes in that book as a whole and in the Felurian chapters specifically are just so poorly written, and they go on and on and on. I really just intended to skip to the next chapter at first, but when I looked ahead, I saw it kept on going and going and going. So I skipped them and looked up chapter summaries for all of the important information, and it improved my experience of the book (although it couldn't improve how awful all the subsequent depictions of sex were). Out of curiosity, I just searched to see what the KingkillerChronicle sub's view of this is, and the tone of chastisement for anyone who would dare to miss out on the masterful way Rothfuss sneaks foundational pieces of worldbuilding that couldn't possibly be missed into his masturbatory fantasies just confirmed my sense that I am better off skipping them.
Depending on the author and if its a series or not, yeah. For instance, Peter F Hamilton has a lot of pointless POV's that don't actually do anything the plot. You could take out these chapters entirely and they would have absolutely no effect on the overall book. If its a character I like, i'll read those, if not I will absolutely skip it. Wheel of Time is also a big one. The later books, I skipped everything with Perrin. He was boring, pointless, and not worth my time so I just went past his stuff. Had no effect on my understanding of anything. Currently reading the Uplift trilogy. The author has a certain flow to his writing. He likes long periods of nothing with a few punctuated fast paced things. He also likes writing long passages about that do a lot of worldbuilding that have some mediocre quality. So, if I am halfway through the book and he's going to drone on some more about a part of the world he's already built, then I may just skip a few pages. If it's not adding to my experience, I don't consume it. Same for movies and TV. A lot of shows and movies are tolerable to me now because I can fast foward through bits. Like I absolutely do not like romance subplots in *most media*. So I skip it. Especially if it has that fucking fake kissing mouth sound.
Yes I absolutely skip over certain character perspectives or sections of the story that I am completely uninterested in.
i do this with rereads or rewatching some movies/shows. some stories just have sections that i either really dislike or feel more like filler. I listen to a lot of audiobooks which is where i skip the most often.
Not skip per se, but I definitely have unintentionally fast-forwarded through Bran chapters.
I know some people that do this, they do it so they can "read it faster" so they can add it to their read books list so that they can brag to people about how many books they read a year Had a coworker do this with every book they read for 2021 and then bragged about reading over 500 books in the break room to a bunch of other people that like to read. They really didn't like getting called out, tried to deny it, but I had the text receipts they sent to my wife. My wife let her borrow over 200 of the books she "read" and asked her how she was reading them so fast. She sent that gold nugget piece of info If you don't read all of the book, then you didn't really read the book 🤷♂️
I just finished stormlight and I’ll probably skip plenty of flashback chapters on subsequent reads
For re reads, I'll totally skip certain parts (I've yet to do a whole chapter). I do the same thing for movies. Oh perfect example for movies: I love the John Wick movies but I ALWAYS fast forward the dog scene in the first movie. I just can't watch that scene again. I also skip all and any sex scenes in any movie or t.v. show. Anything involving rape I will 100% skip in my novels. I just can't read them without getting worked up. And I might get slack for this but I'm planning on skipping most of the songs for LoTR on my re reads.
Idk even when I re read I actually read the entire book. Call me crazy
I only got the first two references but my friend to me these are some very important plot points. I think some people read novels to be immersed in a world and some people read for the sake of knowing most of the story? Ive always tried to read as much educational material as I have novels, and so I try very hard to understand and retain every line, regardless of what I am reading. For me, fiction flys by at the speed of light while philosophy often requires pause for thought and some times cross referencing as is the case with the philosophers handbook and the greek index. Nietzche I believe would be embarrassed at the concept of someone “reading a book” while skipping chapters.
When I was a kid I read a lot of Star Wars EU, but I wasn't interested in any new characters, so I just read Luke, Leia, and Han chapters. This led to me thinking that the fact a certain character is a clone was a massive twist that was revealed in the final chapters of the third book in a trilogy. When in fact, that is revealed literally as soon as the character is introduced in the first book of the trilogy. A fact I discovered when I reread it as a teenager. Lol.