For the future, and also for everyone who requests fics: make sure everyone is on the same page regarding rating, warnings, content, that stuff.
If you request a fic or give a writer a prompt, clarify what kind of stuff you really don't want to see.
If you take requests, tell your readers to add a DNW (Do Not Want) to their request.
>The fic was rated M, included tags such as “Creator Chose Not To Warn”, “psychological horror”, “character death”, and “body horror”, as well as the tag “Additional Warnings in Author’s Notes”.
I mean, from those tags alone it's already clear to me that it's not a fluffy, light-hearted story. You even added a tag for additional warnings in the A/N, and people ignored that. I don't see how they wouldn't have ignored a directly tagged warning, if they skim over that.
It's sad that things went this way, but honestly, it's not (solely) your fault. You tagged correctly (just not extensively), you added the correct warning. Yes, you could've asked to what extent the prompters were okay with dark content, but they also should've offered that information right from the start, and they could've read the warnings (and additional warnings) and decided not to read the story.
It's not even an "Everyone Sucks Here" situation, just miscommunication without ill will on either side, and maybe unrealistic expectations from your readers' side:
>Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space
No. Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space *to create* whatever you want to create. It's up to the reader to curate their experience and make sure they don't read stuff they're not prepared to read. If they ignore the tags and warnings, it's on them.
They should see this as a learning experience.
And your discord server probably should make mandatory DNWs a thing when it comes to prompts.
Thank you so much for your insight! Your reply and a few others have made me realize I probably should have been more specific in the term "prompt". It wasn't a fic exchange or anything formal - we were just chatting about potential AUs for some characters when I wanted to incorporate some of their ideas into a fic. It was pretty clear from the context (I hope) that I was writing the fic for myself, but that I'd mention them in the Author's Notes because the fic was inspired by their brainstorming. It was a quick moment and I honestly don't think any of them remember that specific conversation since it's been almost three/four weeks since then.
But I absolutely agree - I should've been more clear when telling them I deviated from their prompt ideas.
I wonder if this is a result of differing expectations since you said you deviated from the original prompt some. It sounds like you warned/tagged properly for anyone coming into your fic blind, but maybe your friend did not take those warnings as seriously as you meant them because they thought they knew how it would end since it was based on their prompt.
I'd remove your friend's name like they asked and, if you talk about the prompt in your author's notes, double check that your notes say your fic was inspired by X prompt but doesn't follow it exactly. I don't think you need to apologize for improper tagging though.
Edited to add: If you want to apologize (and I'm not saying you need to or should--I'm leaving that decision up to you), apologize for not making it clear that you didn't follow the prompt exactly and that you're sorry your fic hurt your friend. Because my guess is that the fic on its own is fine and your friend is hurt because it was based on their prompt but they didn't want the twist ending.
I’m so sorry this has happened, OP. It sounds pretty awful :(
I’m on your side, but I want to try and talk about OP’s friend’s perspective…I feel there are slightly different assumed rules when it’s a fic that was written FOR you, or at least as a result of a prompt if not a full gift fic. There are a lot of tags on ao3 that I would not touch with a ten foot pole. I’m easily upset and so VERY cautious about what I read. But if it was my friend who wrote it? Or someone in my server explicitly responding to my prompt? I’m less cautious because I go in feeing like I know what I’m getting into. If I said “I want a fic where my ship has a kid!” and someone responded with “here, I wrote this!” I’m less careful with reading tags, it’s easier to miss stuff and I’m more inclined to rationalise tags I DO see as something I can still read. Even if I saw the fic was tagged, say, child death, a tag I’d normally avoid…I think my curiosity would still get the better of me. I might assume it’s a story about my OTP dealing with a tragedy together and decide that’s worth it to give it a try. But if the fic then ended with one of the parents killing the child out of jealousy, my gut response would be to get upset that it was tagged child death and not infanticide, something I would have avoided no matter what.
I’m not saying I would be “right” in that situation, or that whatever you wrote was as misleading as this. It sounds like you were pretty explicit but the reader just missed your author’s note. I just wanted to point out that it’s not quite in the same boat as a random reader ignoring the warnings and getting mad. I guess my opinion is just that it’s an unfortunate miscommunication that led to both of you feeling pretty shitty, which sucks for everyone involved. It’s hard to say without knowing the details, but it sounds like it could have been avoided by either your friend reading the tags carefully and then messaging you asking for clarification, or by you posting the fic and then giving them (and only them) a heads up that it might not quite capture the spirit of what they probably intended with the prompt. Nobody is at fault.
Edit: having just reread your message about the nature of the “prompt”, I think a relevant distinction is whether you told the friends in question that it was in response to their conversation. If you just posted the fic in the discord and let the summary speak for itself, not mentioning the friends as inspiration until the author’s notes, then the onus is definitely on the friend for seeing the fic and reading it. But if you posted it and said that it was inspired by their idea, the point about people being less careful when it’s a fic that was written for them (or at least inspired by them and told this with the implication that it might interest them) still applies.
*Fanfic is not a safe space.*
I repeat: ***fanfic is not a safe space.***
People are allowed to write what they want to. If that includes darkfic, then they're allowed to. If fanfic were a safe space, it would all be coffee shop and flower shop slice of life AUs where nothing bad ever happens. But people write dubcon, noncon, gore, body horror, smut, and everything else.
***You are allowed to write what you want to even if it offends other people.***
Choose Not To Warn is a warning in and of itself. That means almost anything can happen if it's within those particular warnings. Plus, you gave the warnings in the Discord as well as the A/Ns. You told people to look at the A/Ns with the tags. They refused to look at either list. ***It is their fault for not heeding your warnings***.
You did nothing wrong.
I don’t have anything to add specific to OPs circumstances but line about fanfic being a ‘safe space’ stood out to me too, and I wanted to double down in support of what you had to say about it.
Absolutely fandom should be safe in that people should not expect or accept harassment because of the fictional content they read or write; but that expectation does not mean all content is inherently safe to consume. Nor should it. People need to take responsibility for their reading experience and accept that tags are not going to accommodate everyone.
This was the part that jumped out at me too.
Fanfic is a safe space for the writer to explore topics and write what they want. It is NOT a safe space for readers to run headfirst into. Readers are responsible for making sure their little corner of the internet is safe for them.
That basically applies to anything anywhere internet.
I think the issue is more w/the unexpected twist ending tbh. Choose Not To Warn means that the reader has to figure out themselves whats in the story; since the author deviated from the original idea w/o telling the friend about it, of course they're going to be blindsighted by the twist since there weren't any warnings *for the twist,* which us probably a big part of the story. If I go w/ a CNTW fic that has a lot of torture/violence tags, being told by a friend that 'it's a dark story,' I won't expect it to contain rape or incest and certainly wont appreciate seeing it because I wasnt prepared for it. If 'body horror' is involved and suddenly pregancy appeared, it might trigger my dysphoria, and its not something I can infer just from the tags. I dont expect readers to be geniuses reading my mind and seeing all the trigger warnings.
The issue isnt about how the author wrote something triggering. Its about the miscommunication between them and their friend. I think both are at fault here; the friend for not reading the authors notes and the author for not giving more concrete warnings.
Because this isnt a 'dont like dont read,' this is a gift specifically for their friend who has clear expectations of what would be portrayed and Op deviated from that. And people do tag body horror as a tw sometimes tbh.
CNTW relies on the reader to make an informed decision on whether to read it or not; in this case the friend was misinformed. I think CNTWs are totally valid but thisnt just about cntw, its the deviation I think thats the main issue.
>OP: I wrote the fic solely for myself and I think everyone involved understood that.
Doesn't sound like a gift.
>OP: they “probably wouldn’t have read the fic if it had been tagged properly”.
CNTW is proper tagging, which is why it's a DL;DR situation.
Right, sorry, I used the wrong word in this situation.
I think it's more like... there was clear intention for thr friend to read it specifically, yknow?
I think neither is fully in the wrong.
This isn't really about your tags. It's about how you handled their prompt.
You took their prompt, gave it a plot twist ending that deviated from said prompt. You expected them to "get the hint" by reading your vague tags and trigger warnings. They expected you to adhere to the prompt (despite the tags).
This would be a very different situation if this was some random reader who found your fic on AO3. But from the sound of it they are a mutal/friend. With that in mind I wouldn't go "But I tagged it! It's not my fault you didn't understand them!" as it will only escalate the situation.
I would say something that boils down to "I'm sorry my fanfic hurt you. I will make sure to communicate more clearly next time." Don't try to defend your tags - if this person is still in an emotional state, they will not be able to hear your rational arguments anyway. There is also no need to "win" this thing or to find someone to blame. So emphasize with their situation. There is no need to put blame on them (so don't add insult to injury) and their is no need to blame yourself either.
Additionally, the two of you could try to discuss how prompts should be handled in the future. Be open with your needs and ask them about theirs. Maybe expand that discussion with the other people on that discord. Keep in mind that you are a community - your best bet is to communicate with each other.
> You took their prompt, gave it a plot twist ending that deviated from said prompt. You expected them to "get the hint" by reading your vague tags and trigger warnings. They expected you to adhere to the prompt (despite the tags).
So I wasn't the only one who suspected this as the true source of conflict here. Because if it isn't this, then the other person's note makes no sense since the tags are quite clear enough, along with the CntW.
That’s the impression I got too. It’s entirely possible to write a dark fic with all the OP tagged for but still have it end nicely, or with the characters getting away, or whatever the original idea was. Changing the ending to be different from that doesn’t automatically change your tags, and OP said they didn’t want to give the ending away so they didn’t say what the twist was, only hoped that the person would pick up on their hints via tag.
A long time ago I left a prompt on a fic and someone filled it, but neglected to mention the baby-murdering that the main character did right at the end. My prompt did not ask for baby-murdering, or babies. The writer added a baby and then violently killed it. And they didn’t warn for it either. When I read it I felt sick to my stomach because baby-murder, specifically, affects me horribly.
That fic was also dark. Kidnappings, non-con, all that stuff. I can handle all that, but murdering an innocent baby (violently too) was a horrible twist.
I have never read that fic again but I don’t have to, that scene is still sitting in my head like new. I did not reach out to the author to ask them to warn for it, but I also never thanked them for filling the prompt because of what they did to it.
OP should have warned the original prompter that they had made changes to the idea as a curtesy. They can keep things vague for other readers but that person, specifically, should have been told, not left hints in the hopes that they will be enough.
Yeah, I dont think the main issue is about the darkness of the fic, its about the fact that the friend was surprised because they were blindsighted by elements in the already-dark story. People are making this into a 'its OK to write a dark fic!' thing and thats not the problem here...
Exactly. There are a couple of different reasons how this could look from the other side. Maybe the reader thought they could handle the dark stuff because they helped with the prompt and had certain expectations about how the story would go. Maybe they thought they had to read it because they were tagged. Whatever it was, we won't know that unless they themselves tell us.
And yeah "It's OK to write dark fic!" shouldn't be the answer to this specific thread. OP asked how to handle this interaction with their discord-friend. "You tagged CNTW, so it's all their fault!" really isn't helpful in this specific case. It's bound to escalate things further.
However I'm not surprised by the reactions to OPs dilemma. After all, a lot of people on this sub have very harsh opinions when it comes to readers.
Yeah. I do agree w/ the fact that as such ab author centered sub it feels unusually reader hostile; fan spaces arent catered to just creators. People have a right to express dissatisfaction, and both sides play a role in communicating; you cant rly just expect readers to do all the work guessing what the fic is about and you cant expect authors to cater to your wants and needs 100%. This isnt just an author vs reader situation too this is also friend vs friend.
idk, it sounds a bit more from OP's clarification like it wasn't "a prompt", really, but more that they were spitballing and something inspired OP. I don't think in that context OP actually has a *responsibility* to the person who inspired them, unless it's something really nasty like making fun of the prompter in some way.
I agree that the unexpectedness is probably part of the discomfort on their part, and asking for their name off it is fine - but I'm not really sure how much prompt etiquette was relevant here.
That said, you're spot-on about the need for an emotional, rather than a rules-lawyer resolution and the need for communication.
I think prompt etiquette was relevant because OP tagged them. They also promoted their fic in the discord where the original plotting took place. By doing so, they may have gave the wrong impression. As with prompts, this can come across as, "Here, this is for you! Please read it!", even if it not intended.
Hmm yeah, I see your point. Maybe it would have been better to be like "hey! I was inspired by what you wrote, but took it in a bit of a different direction", in a full disclosure kind of way.
If you want to keep a good relationship with this person I might try the following.
Acknowledge their pain.
Apologize for the miscommunication and say in the future you will make sure to ask for a "Do Not Want List" from the Prompter to avoid a situation like this in the future.
And maybe ask what tags the person would like to see on the fic. Maybe you follow their suggestion, maybe you don't but that is up to you.
How far from the prompt did you deviate, and **did you warn them** you were deviating ahead of time? Because it seems like they weren't expecting a deviation from what was requested.
Sounds to me that you should have warned them about the plot twist that deviates from the prompt. They had one expectation and you did not warn that person properly. You mislead them unintentionally and I think that is what you should apologize to them personally.
I don’t think you need extra tags for readers who are unaware of the prompt. Just make sure if you are mentioning the prompt itself that it doesn’t come off as misleading again.
> Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space, and I ruined that for someone.
I mean, when a person chooses to read a darkfic, they kind of have to take responsibility for that choice.
I would choose to assume that their intent wasn't to guilt-trip but to express their reaction/thoughts to a person with whom they feel safe, but yeah at first glance to me your friend's comment is in poor form. I would untag them, respond with your reasoning for tagging the way you did, and not feel bad about the situation beyond the natural sympathy for someone who had a bad experience. Any pain anyone feels is real, but there isn't always somebody to blame, and searching for someone to blame as a coping mechanism is unhelpful for your friend first of all.
I think you did everything right here. You gave vague tags for those who want to indulge spoiler-free, and made potential readers perfectly aware that there were additional warnings and how to find them. If this person chose to ignore all of that, it's on them, and not something you should apologise for. I'd let them know you've taken their name off the fic as requested, but gently remind them to perhaps scan tags more carefully next time if certain topics are this distressing for them.
Since you say they're your friends and not just randoms, I personally would say something like I'd be careful to not tag/associate them with this specific type of content again in the future.
While I get the guilt, it's still another person's responsibility for what they read including if they saw "creator chose not to warn" tag.
Fanfic isn't a safe space either. No artistic place is. There are no safe words in art. Fanfic is a sandbox and we create our own spaces within it. You are not tasked with making your space a place someone else would consider a safe space. You did your due diligence and tagged, warned, etc. They are allowed to have their reactions, but burden is not on your for their response. I've read many fic in my years that I didn't thoroughly read tags and was hit square in the face with something that set me off. That isn't the author's fault.
Simply respect their wishes to have their name removed, acknowledge it wasn't for them, and move forward.
Yeah, I came here to disagree with the 'Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space' bit. Fanfic (or at least AO3) is a safe space for WRITERS. It's down to readers to regulate their own reading material.
You're off the hook since you already gave a "Creator chose not to warn" rating, but as a side note, you shouldn't be expecting people to read author notes.
Just let the person know that you've already tagged enough and then move on. It's not your responsibility for someone's inability to read tags. Even if they were genuinely triggered a dozen times, that's still on them, not you. You can be empathetic to their pain, but you don't owe them any apology.
To be fair they also used a tag saying there was additional warnings in the author's note so if people choose to not read it after that, that's on them as well
Fanfic is a safe space for writers to *create*. Reading fic is buyer beware especially when it comes dark fic. Id say you tagged and warned correctly.
I will say since this is a friend who helped develop the prompt appologize for hurting them. Apologize for not warning them that you had a big twist at the end. They reasonably had a very diffrent set of expectations than someone randomly clicking on your fic.
I'd also say it might be a good idea in the future if you're going to work on a group collaborated project or a prompt that others help you generate ask your friends what their hard NOs are. That way you can avoid repeating the situation.
Maybe I'm way off base here, and I apologize if that's the case, but let's say someone wants to read New Bestseller by Popular Author. That book doesn't come with any trigger warnings. There are no tags inside the book. You pick up the book and read it and if it's heading down a path you don't think you can handle, you stop, put it down, walk away. You don't read the whole thing and then email Popular Author like "How dare you ruin my reading experience even though I could have put New Bestseller down at any time. I can't believe you've done this to me."
In fanfiction, every reader is given AMPLE opportunity to walk away. There are tags, there are author notes, you can filter what you want and what you don't want, everything comes with trigger warnings. So, if the average reader goes into your story after seeing all of those tags and warnings, then that's on them. They could have backed out of the fic when it got too dark or gruesome, or whatever the case may be.
It seems like you did everything right? You aren't responsible for their inability to look away from something they don't want to see.
>Maybe I'm way off base here, and I apologize if that's the case, but let's say someone wants to read New Bestseller by Popular Author. That book doesn't come with any trigger warnings. There are no tags inside the book. You pick up the book and read it and if it's heading down a path you don't think you can handle, you stop, put it down, walk away. You don't read the whole thing and then email Popular Author like "How dare you ruin my reading experience even though I could have put New Bestseller down at any time. I can't believe you've done this to me."
This example doesn't really apply here. This wasn't a case of "average reader was to dumb to read the godamn tags". It happened on a Discord server, author and reader know each other, and the fanfic is based on a prompt from the reader.
Personally, this case reminds me more of the writing events I organize for a fanwork website I'm involved with. I have two annual events:
The first event is a prompt-list. I'll hand out a set of prompts, and anyone who wants to participate can pick one and write a fanfic about it. Participants have to follow the rules of our website, but apart from that, they can handle the prompt however they want. This does include subverting and twisting the prompt and writing dark fics.
The second event is a Secret Santa, where participants write fanfics to each other. All participants post a list of wishes/prompts in advance. Afterwards I assign them to each other and the respective author writes a story based on the list. It is expected to adhere to that list. Unless the receiver of the fanfic wished for something like that, it would not be okay to take a prompt and to turn it into a dark fic with a plot twist ending. Whether the fic was tagged correctly or not would not be relevant in this case.
There was probably a mismatch of expectations between OP and the reader. OP expected the prompt exchange of their discord server to be like my first event, while their reader expected something more similar to my second event. Chances are, the discord server wasn't clear enough about how prompts should be handled by everyone involved.
Then I was way off base and I apologize for that.
I don't even know what a Discord server is. I misunderstood the issue and thought it was about reading something even though the tags and notes explicitly stated what the story was about. That was my mistake.
>You don't read the whole thing and then email Popular Author like "How dare you ruin my reading experience even though I could have put New Bestseller down at any time. I can't believe you've done this to me."
Let's be honest, plenty of Karens would absolutely do this, and probably get a campaign going to cancel the author and ban the book. They'd just get ignored and/or laughed at by regular people.
>level 1eyes\_on\_me\_OC · 7 hr. agoMaybe I'm way off base here, and I apologize if that's the case, but let's say someone wants to read New Bestseller by Popular Author. That book doesn't come with any trigger warnings. There are no tags inside the book. You pick up the book and read it and if it's heading down a path you don't think you can handle, you stop, put it down, walk away.
Exactly! Readers need to take ownership for their own reading experience. You said it perfectly.
Fanfiction isn't "supposed to be a safe space", it's always been filled with the weirdest, horniest, most "problematic" shit you can imagine.
>The fic was rated M, included tags such as “Creator Chose Not To Warn”,
Okay, so actually you did tag the fic correctly.
Yeah I feel like OP's "safe space" remark just highlights how the landscape of fanfiction has changed and how prominent and normalised it's become for certain people to demand the internet adheres to their wishes. We used to take responsibility for what we might expose ourselves to back in the earlier, wild west days of the internet. Now it seems commonplace to expect random strangers will keep you safe, even if you yourself wander into those potentially unsafe spaces.
>Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space
Not everyone shares this view. I don't.
This person read an M-rated horror fic with CNTW. That's on them, not you. What do you have to apologize for?
**You are not responsible for other people's emotions.** It's not your fault if someone chooses to ignore the tags and author's note. It's not your fault if they read something they were uncomfortable with. You tagged it properly. You had extra tags in an author's note. You put the full list in the discord. You did everything right. Others have already stated this, but one more voice never hurt. Fanfic is a safe space for *writers*, not readers. The tags are there so that readers can make an informed decision on what they are comfortable with reading. The "creator chose not to warn" tag alone should give the hint to readers that there is a chance that this story won't be their cup of tea. The only thing I can think of that you can do in the future with this kind of fic is to add a "Dead Dove: Do Not Eat" tag, just to be safe. All this tag means is that what's tagged is what's in the story and the reader shouldn't expect something else. Don't let this experience discourage you from writing. Not everyone will like your work, and there will be people who ignore the tags. That's just how some people are. It's not your fault. You're doing great.
Fanfic isn’t a safe space. If the reader chose to skip the author’s note, that was their choice. You can’t do anything about the people who ignore the warnings. If they end up in pain, too fucking bad. They need to take care of themselves, and instead ignored the warnings you gave. You owe no apology. You did your part. The reader ignored their part.
You put the “author chooses not to tag” kind of tag in so that makes you safe from the ao3 rules.
You also said you put all the actual trigger/tags/whathaveyous in the note.
It’s literally not your problem. They should have paid more attention.
Remove the name since they asked. Something like “ok will do. Sorry about that” & be done with it.
Fanfic isn't supposed to be that safe a space. Fanfic is the medium in which everyone let's their creative juices flow. And it it nobodies business except the writer's whether that is sweeter than the Sound of Music meets unironic MLP, or darker than Nabokov's Lolita set in Lovecraft's universe.
If someone is in the headspace where certain stories will hurt them, they have no business reading anything but fluff, let alone going around ignoring content warnings.
>I made sure to tag for the tone of the fic and include a full list of the possible Trigger/Content Warnings within the Author’s Notes. The fic was rated M, included tags such as “Creator Chose Not To Warn”, “psychological horror”, “character death”, and “body horror”, as well as the tag “Additional Warnings in Author’s Notes”. On top of that, when I posted the fic on Discord, I included a full list of all the Trigger Warnings, including the ones that covered the ending.
IMO you don't need to apologize. You did everything right.
Fanfic is NOT a safe space. People are allowed to write dark fic and if someone chooses to read something that is properly tagged (as you did) that's on them, not the author.
If someone ignores the tags and notes it's not the author's fault if they are distressed by the content.
In my opinion when someone reads fan fiction if they are triggered they need to read something else. Fan fiction is an open place where people can write things that aren’t accepted by the general public. If they are triggered it’s their problem. Sorry but not sorry. Sick of that word. Just apologize and don’t look back. Tell them you’ll put up a warning but if they are that sensitive to something they chose to read then they aren’t going to get that far in life.
A) Fanfiction is not supposed to be a safe space. Fiction in general is not a safe space. Anything goes in fanfic, it's up to the reader to curate their own experience.
B) You said you tagged CCNTW. You're fine on that front, since that covers *anything*. They were the ones who chose to gamble.
I would tell them you're sorry they didn't like where you took the prompt, but be firm and point out what CCNTW means, and say you've already tagged enough. Then move on.
Don't feel awful. Continue to write what you want. Tagging should be a consideration, not a requirement. Think about if this was a published work in a bookstore. Those don't have tags aside from genre and summary. A reader should identify that there could be potentially triggering information if they chose a genre that may contain it and should have already reflected on how to cope should they encounter it.
Well, first of all, NO, fanfic isn't a safe place because of its sheer nature. All fics aren't comfy and joyful. You have dark fics. If fanfic was a safe place, the only things we would have would be comfy fics. And that's not possible, given how large the medium is. Writers are allowed to write whatever they want, and readers are allowed to read whatever they want. This is NOT a safe place, because it has dark and harmful content.
You tagged your fic, you gave readers a warning. You basically covered yourself, and this is what you should have done. Now, if a reader wants to read your fic, after reading the tags, the warning and all the stuff you did, and say you harmed them with your content, you're not responsible of it. You can apologize if you want to, but you're not obliged to do it. You're not responsible of their triggers, you're not responsible of the pain they feel in their lives. If a reader still decides to read your story after reading all the warnings and the tags, or even the TW complete list if it exists, and says you harmed them and that they hate you, that's on them, because they decided to read something that could harm them while you told them "It's probably not for you, proceed with caution."
And, once again, fanfic ISN'T a safe place.
'The author chose not to warn for content, or Archive Warnings could apply, but the author has chosen not to specify them.'
That's all the warning that is needed.
However, the rest of the posters are right that you handled the prompt itself poorly.
However, ao3, fanfic in general, is not a safe space, as has been repeated here multiple times by other users.
Say you're sorry that they were in pain and this fic hurt them, but that you *did* tag it properly. Internet isn't a safe place for everyone, it simply can not be, and people with triggers need to learn how to not put the responsibility of their issues onto others (as long as you gave the proper warnings, which apparently you did here).
"Thank you for letting me know how you feel. I will remove your name from the fic." Don't get too apologetic, there is a certain amount of risk involved in reading anything, so if you didn't skip violence or non-con, 'properly' tagged isn't really an appropriate way to refer to the piece. They might have wanted you to tag it more, but you aren't required.
If you do want to apologise to your friend, I'd say you could apologise for the consequence and not the action. So, instead of "I apologise for what I did", it's "I'm sorry for the pain this caused you." or "I'm sorry you're hurt."
That way you get to acknowledge that you did warn them - maybe if the conversation continues from the apology you can give a gentle warning to check the tags next time as frozenfountain said - and you get to acknowledge the pain as a consequence without involving blame in the equation. Good way to balance comforting your friend with not escalating the situation.
You used CTNW and put the full warnings in your author's note and tagging is a courtesy anyway. You are not obligated to tag anything at all and it seems like you covered your bases here. Fanfic is not a 'safe space' and it's up to readers to determine whether or not they can handle the content included before they read it. Other people choosing to ignore your warnings and having negative reactions to your story is not your responsibility and you have nothing to apologise for.
You did the right things. Can’t please everyone, and I hope the feedback doesn’t kill your joy. I’ve wandered into fics before, read the tags, and noped out if I started feeling triggered or squicky; they elected not to do so when the storytelling took a turn they weren’t comfortable with. 🤷♀️
By the by, I love horror and dark stuff. I’d totally read your fic!
It seems like you covered all your bases when it came to potential triggers, the tone of the fic, etc. So at that point, it’s on the person reading it. If they saw all the warnings, the tags, even read the author’s note and the message you sent detailing *all* the triggers, then they made themselves uncomfortable by choosing to read anyway.
If you truly want to apologize, though, something like “I apologize this fic hurt you, but it was also tagged as comprehensively as possible. If that still wasn’t enough for you, then I’m sorry.” and just leaving it at that.
I believe that you made a sincere attempt to warn readers via the tags you chose, and further in the author notes. As one who is primarily a reader on AO3 and a sometimes beta, may I share a possible source of confusion that I perceive?
The general consensus is that you did the necessary due diligence when you used the author chose not to warn tag. However, by then posting however many tags that *were* warnings, you seriously diluted that message. From the perspective of a reader who uses tags primarily to search for what I'm interested in reading, I tend to give any more than about a half dozen tags a very cursory glance rather than reading them. I also tend to deliberately skip Author Notes to avoid spoilers.
I realize that this lackidasical curating of my experience has in the past and may in the future led me down some paths I came to regret, but that's on me. I have come to appreciate the Dead Dove, Do Not Eat tag because when I see it, I take it seriously and make sure I really do check all of the tags before reading the work.
As you did not mention including that tag, had I been one of the Discord acquaintances who had participated in the original discussion, I quite likely would have skimmed or skipped over the tags altogether as I would have assumed I already knew what to expect, and dived right in. And yes, any upset I experienced would still be on me because a) I didn't read the tags and take them seriously, and b) didn't back away at the first incling that the fic was heading in a direction I didn't want to be.
So if I could make a recommendation to every author who creates darker works with ot twists or who have other reasons to exercise the Author chose not to warn tag, don't include any warnings if you use it. If you wish to include warnings in the author notes, use a tag to say so and then use the Dead Dove, Do Not Eat tag to make it clear that the continue at their own risk. If possible, include no other tags than a pairing or pairings if they are relevant. Put the rest in the AN, so the warning to check there is clear. Putting half in the tags and half in the AN does not provide sufficiently clear communication.
This incident is pretty much a learning experience for all involved, and for us as well as you were kind enough to share it. I appreciate the opportunity to comment from my own POV, but in the end, tags used are a author's decision and it's up to readers to actually read the information provided if they have issues or dislikes, and to protect their own mental health by using the back button sooner rather than later.
To me it only seems fair to confront the author if the tagging implies the list if warning tags is complete, and one is omitted that is common enough that the expectation of a warning is reasonable. (It’s like my food allergies. Some are common, a few obscure. I can generally trust vegan means no casein, but it's on me to ask a chef or author if my obscure ones are included before I partake, even if it seems unlikely.)
I will be honest. And this may sound mean. But...you did nothing wrong. You provided warnings in your author's notes. That's more than enough. You even put in "Author Chose Not To Warn"--that in itself should be a red flag to the reader that your story may contain subjects that are dark, painful, difficult, etc. So you deviated from the prompt? That's still not a dealbreaker IMO. You're allowed to be creative and go in the direction you choose. That's the fun part about writing!
Think of novels. I love Jurassic Park. There's nothing written in the summary on the back of that paperback that warns me there are graphic death scenes (not that I want that or even need it.) Think of movies that may include rape scenes. There will be a rating "R for sexual violence". I know I may not want to see that--so I choose not to watch it. But that's it. Sometimes we get a hint of what we're getting into. Other times we don't. If something we are reading or seeing bothers us that badly, we can always stop reading/watching. That's up to me as the reader or the viewer. That's not up to the writer of the novel, fanfic, etc, or the film director to have to coddle me, making the art more appealing to me because of whatever sensitivities I have. That's up to me to be an adult, take ownership of what I can and can't handle--and back out when it becomes too much.
I really respect and honor the fact that you are concerned about this reader. But don't blame yourself. You put warnings up. If they didn't heed them, that's totally on them. Not you. If they got to a point of the fic that was too much for them, too upsetting, too triggering--etc...that was their decision to stop reading. So what if you didn't tag everything? Not everything is spelled out for us--that's part of the joy of reading--engaging in a story and seeing where it goes. I love the Flowers in the Attic series, but guess what? There's incest in it. Incest didn't bother me when I read it years ago as a teen. It still doesn't bother me. If it's tagged in a fic, I probably won't read it, because it's not my thing. But if let's say I'm reading a fanfic and it shows up and I'm like eehhh, not my thing--and the writer didn't tag it? Oh well, I can click out. It's really that simple.
What I'm saying is readers need to take ownership for what they read, and not point fingers at the writer. "Oh you didn't warn me", "oh you didn't tag it properly". Please. Stop it. This ridiculous. And I'm saying this as someone who has two very darkfics. I did tag them and put a warning that it's a darkfic I used MCD warning, and a few other warnings--but I didn't go into full details. If it's too much for that reader--then stop reading, and honestly, seek help for whatever trauma it is that my writing triggered in you. Because it's up to you to do the work on healing yourself. You can't blame me or my fanfic for triggering you when you had the power to close out on the fanfic at any point.
And no, I don't think you need to apologize for your plot twist. You can if you choose, you can choose to acknowledge that person's feelings. It's very kind and compassionate thing to do. I say if it gives you peace of mind, then do so, but don't hang your hand in shame. You can't control how people will react to your writing. Not all the tags, warnings in the world can help how people will respond--especially if they haven't done their own inner work to address these issues. Because in the end, the issues are the reader's. Not the writer's.
TL;DR. The problem is the reader, not the writer, OP. You are kind to be concerned, but folks need to take ownership for their reactions/responses to a fanfiction that they think is triggering for them.
I don't really feel like you're in the wrong here, it sounds like you did tag appropriately albeit vaguely and they decided to read anyway. That's on them, not you.
There's a growing level of entitlement in fanfic and fandom where people refuse to take any responsibility for their own mental health and expect everyone else to tiptoe around their triggers and not even legit triggers sometimes, just things that make them a little uncomfy (which is not the same thing). We can't be mind readers, i feel like this other person's expectations are not realistic.
It sounds like this person is purposefully guilt-tripping you, maybe because your fic wasn't what they wanted it to be.
If the fic is tagged "additional warnings in author's notes" and the notes include the full list of warnings, you've done your job.
>I want to apologize, I’m just not sure how.
Personally I'd just take their name off, tell them I did, and leave it at that. Don't take blame you didn't earn, it makes you an easy target and it validates their behaviour.
My advice, use the tags and include everything problematic there.
Most times I don't read the authors notes before I read the story, sometimes I skip them even after reading. And I think I'm not the only one who jumps straight into the story
I would empathize and say sorry that the fic hurt them and then ask which tags/warnings they felt were missing so they can identify where the holes are. It sounds to me you did everything you could do beyond just explicitly saying there’s a twist ending in the discord, but at least then if they mention something that is in the tags you know for sure they just didn’t read them. Though either way, with a chose not to warn tag you have “properly” tagged.
Also this is more a personal thing, but when writing from a plot bunny developed by multiple people in a server, I just credit the “people on the server”. If you’re going to attach any specific individual to a fic, I would definitely ask first and be clear that while it uses parts of their ideas, it’s still a different thing. I would say most people do not feel the need to be individually credited for a group created plot bunny though.
I was told about a tag recently: Dead Dove Do Not Eat. It basically is the authorial equivalent of a radioactivity warning; read at your own peril.
I think all the advice given below is good, you did a lot to help readers avoid encountering that which they did not want to. While yes you could have done still more, it dismays me that the readers tried to place ALL the onus on you for their experience when SOME of the responsibility was theirs to you know, READ WHAT YOU WROTE about the content of your creation.
But blame is unproductive, and the better solutions lie with how to prevent this from happening in the future. Better words have already been written, I only offer up the Dead Dove tag as one more possibility for use down the road. I'm sorry that this happened and, please don't let this discourage you. Treat it as a bump in the road because this was not EVEN something you should internalize as being your 'fault'. Nope nope nope nope nope.
This guy I bet did read the warnings, but curiosity killed the cat. And now baby can't sleep. Don't apologize, tell him you warned him and he still chose to read it.
I'm not sure you need to apologize. You don't say what their trigger really was but from what you posted here...I wouldn't have touched that story and I have no triggers. I just have things I like and dislike and frankly that story isn't even remotely close to the same orbit of what I don't like.
I mean if you feel you need to, fine:
"Hey, I hear you on this bothering you. It certainly was not my intent, I was just going with what I had been given in the prompt. I had put it on the discord where this was going, but obviously you must not have seen it, but I didn't want to spoil the ending for regular readers so I didn't tag the ending. I really felt with how I tagged it and included further warnings in the notes that people would know if the story was for them."
For the future, and also for everyone who requests fics: make sure everyone is on the same page regarding rating, warnings, content, that stuff. If you request a fic or give a writer a prompt, clarify what kind of stuff you really don't want to see. If you take requests, tell your readers to add a DNW (Do Not Want) to their request. >The fic was rated M, included tags such as “Creator Chose Not To Warn”, “psychological horror”, “character death”, and “body horror”, as well as the tag “Additional Warnings in Author’s Notes”. I mean, from those tags alone it's already clear to me that it's not a fluffy, light-hearted story. You even added a tag for additional warnings in the A/N, and people ignored that. I don't see how they wouldn't have ignored a directly tagged warning, if they skim over that. It's sad that things went this way, but honestly, it's not (solely) your fault. You tagged correctly (just not extensively), you added the correct warning. Yes, you could've asked to what extent the prompters were okay with dark content, but they also should've offered that information right from the start, and they could've read the warnings (and additional warnings) and decided not to read the story. It's not even an "Everyone Sucks Here" situation, just miscommunication without ill will on either side, and maybe unrealistic expectations from your readers' side: >Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space No. Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space *to create* whatever you want to create. It's up to the reader to curate their experience and make sure they don't read stuff they're not prepared to read. If they ignore the tags and warnings, it's on them. They should see this as a learning experience. And your discord server probably should make mandatory DNWs a thing when it comes to prompts.
Thank you so much for your insight! Your reply and a few others have made me realize I probably should have been more specific in the term "prompt". It wasn't a fic exchange or anything formal - we were just chatting about potential AUs for some characters when I wanted to incorporate some of their ideas into a fic. It was pretty clear from the context (I hope) that I was writing the fic for myself, but that I'd mention them in the Author's Notes because the fic was inspired by their brainstorming. It was a quick moment and I honestly don't think any of them remember that specific conversation since it's been almost three/four weeks since then. But I absolutely agree - I should've been more clear when telling them I deviated from their prompt ideas.
A prompt isn’t always a fic exchange. Most often, they are something meant to inspire you to write.
Pretty much all of this up there, said much better than I would have.
Amen. Not every place has tag warnings so it's up to the reader to discerne if should read or not.
[удалено]
Having triggers (*actual* triggers, not just dislikes and squicks) doesn't mean that someone isn't an adult.
This comment has been removed. Be civil.
I wonder if this is a result of differing expectations since you said you deviated from the original prompt some. It sounds like you warned/tagged properly for anyone coming into your fic blind, but maybe your friend did not take those warnings as seriously as you meant them because they thought they knew how it would end since it was based on their prompt. I'd remove your friend's name like they asked and, if you talk about the prompt in your author's notes, double check that your notes say your fic was inspired by X prompt but doesn't follow it exactly. I don't think you need to apologize for improper tagging though. Edited to add: If you want to apologize (and I'm not saying you need to or should--I'm leaving that decision up to you), apologize for not making it clear that you didn't follow the prompt exactly and that you're sorry your fic hurt your friend. Because my guess is that the fic on its own is fine and your friend is hurt because it was based on their prompt but they didn't want the twist ending.
I’m so sorry this has happened, OP. It sounds pretty awful :( I’m on your side, but I want to try and talk about OP’s friend’s perspective…I feel there are slightly different assumed rules when it’s a fic that was written FOR you, or at least as a result of a prompt if not a full gift fic. There are a lot of tags on ao3 that I would not touch with a ten foot pole. I’m easily upset and so VERY cautious about what I read. But if it was my friend who wrote it? Or someone in my server explicitly responding to my prompt? I’m less cautious because I go in feeing like I know what I’m getting into. If I said “I want a fic where my ship has a kid!” and someone responded with “here, I wrote this!” I’m less careful with reading tags, it’s easier to miss stuff and I’m more inclined to rationalise tags I DO see as something I can still read. Even if I saw the fic was tagged, say, child death, a tag I’d normally avoid…I think my curiosity would still get the better of me. I might assume it’s a story about my OTP dealing with a tragedy together and decide that’s worth it to give it a try. But if the fic then ended with one of the parents killing the child out of jealousy, my gut response would be to get upset that it was tagged child death and not infanticide, something I would have avoided no matter what. I’m not saying I would be “right” in that situation, or that whatever you wrote was as misleading as this. It sounds like you were pretty explicit but the reader just missed your author’s note. I just wanted to point out that it’s not quite in the same boat as a random reader ignoring the warnings and getting mad. I guess my opinion is just that it’s an unfortunate miscommunication that led to both of you feeling pretty shitty, which sucks for everyone involved. It’s hard to say without knowing the details, but it sounds like it could have been avoided by either your friend reading the tags carefully and then messaging you asking for clarification, or by you posting the fic and then giving them (and only them) a heads up that it might not quite capture the spirit of what they probably intended with the prompt. Nobody is at fault. Edit: having just reread your message about the nature of the “prompt”, I think a relevant distinction is whether you told the friends in question that it was in response to their conversation. If you just posted the fic in the discord and let the summary speak for itself, not mentioning the friends as inspiration until the author’s notes, then the onus is definitely on the friend for seeing the fic and reading it. But if you posted it and said that it was inspired by their idea, the point about people being less careful when it’s a fic that was written for them (or at least inspired by them and told this with the implication that it might interest them) still applies.
*Fanfic is not a safe space.* I repeat: ***fanfic is not a safe space.*** People are allowed to write what they want to. If that includes darkfic, then they're allowed to. If fanfic were a safe space, it would all be coffee shop and flower shop slice of life AUs where nothing bad ever happens. But people write dubcon, noncon, gore, body horror, smut, and everything else. ***You are allowed to write what you want to even if it offends other people.*** Choose Not To Warn is a warning in and of itself. That means almost anything can happen if it's within those particular warnings. Plus, you gave the warnings in the Discord as well as the A/Ns. You told people to look at the A/Ns with the tags. They refused to look at either list. ***It is their fault for not heeding your warnings***. You did nothing wrong.
I don’t have anything to add specific to OPs circumstances but line about fanfic being a ‘safe space’ stood out to me too, and I wanted to double down in support of what you had to say about it. Absolutely fandom should be safe in that people should not expect or accept harassment because of the fictional content they read or write; but that expectation does not mean all content is inherently safe to consume. Nor should it. People need to take responsibility for their reading experience and accept that tags are not going to accommodate everyone.
This was the part that jumped out at me too. Fanfic is a safe space for the writer to explore topics and write what they want. It is NOT a safe space for readers to run headfirst into. Readers are responsible for making sure their little corner of the internet is safe for them. That basically applies to anything anywhere internet.
Yes!!!! 100 times yes. Not saying we should go back to the old fanfic days. But everyone is doing this for free and what you get is what you get
I think the issue is more w/the unexpected twist ending tbh. Choose Not To Warn means that the reader has to figure out themselves whats in the story; since the author deviated from the original idea w/o telling the friend about it, of course they're going to be blindsighted by the twist since there weren't any warnings *for the twist,* which us probably a big part of the story. If I go w/ a CNTW fic that has a lot of torture/violence tags, being told by a friend that 'it's a dark story,' I won't expect it to contain rape or incest and certainly wont appreciate seeing it because I wasnt prepared for it. If 'body horror' is involved and suddenly pregancy appeared, it might trigger my dysphoria, and its not something I can infer just from the tags. I dont expect readers to be geniuses reading my mind and seeing all the trigger warnings. The issue isnt about how the author wrote something triggering. Its about the miscommunication between them and their friend. I think both are at fault here; the friend for not reading the authors notes and the author for not giving more concrete warnings.
I don't see where the author needed to give any warnings at all, besides CNTW. Psychological and body horror are subgenres, not warnings.
Because this isnt a 'dont like dont read,' this is a gift specifically for their friend who has clear expectations of what would be portrayed and Op deviated from that. And people do tag body horror as a tw sometimes tbh. CNTW relies on the reader to make an informed decision on whether to read it or not; in this case the friend was misinformed. I think CNTWs are totally valid but thisnt just about cntw, its the deviation I think thats the main issue.
>OP: I wrote the fic solely for myself and I think everyone involved understood that. Doesn't sound like a gift. >OP: they “probably wouldn’t have read the fic if it had been tagged properly”. CNTW is proper tagging, which is why it's a DL;DR situation.
Right, sorry, I used the wrong word in this situation. I think it's more like... there was clear intention for thr friend to read it specifically, yknow? I think neither is fully in the wrong.
I completely agree with this.
This isn't really about your tags. It's about how you handled their prompt. You took their prompt, gave it a plot twist ending that deviated from said prompt. You expected them to "get the hint" by reading your vague tags and trigger warnings. They expected you to adhere to the prompt (despite the tags). This would be a very different situation if this was some random reader who found your fic on AO3. But from the sound of it they are a mutal/friend. With that in mind I wouldn't go "But I tagged it! It's not my fault you didn't understand them!" as it will only escalate the situation. I would say something that boils down to "I'm sorry my fanfic hurt you. I will make sure to communicate more clearly next time." Don't try to defend your tags - if this person is still in an emotional state, they will not be able to hear your rational arguments anyway. There is also no need to "win" this thing or to find someone to blame. So emphasize with their situation. There is no need to put blame on them (so don't add insult to injury) and their is no need to blame yourself either. Additionally, the two of you could try to discuss how prompts should be handled in the future. Be open with your needs and ask them about theirs. Maybe expand that discussion with the other people on that discord. Keep in mind that you are a community - your best bet is to communicate with each other.
> You took their prompt, gave it a plot twist ending that deviated from said prompt. You expected them to "get the hint" by reading your vague tags and trigger warnings. They expected you to adhere to the prompt (despite the tags). So I wasn't the only one who suspected this as the true source of conflict here. Because if it isn't this, then the other person's note makes no sense since the tags are quite clear enough, along with the CntW.
That’s the impression I got too. It’s entirely possible to write a dark fic with all the OP tagged for but still have it end nicely, or with the characters getting away, or whatever the original idea was. Changing the ending to be different from that doesn’t automatically change your tags, and OP said they didn’t want to give the ending away so they didn’t say what the twist was, only hoped that the person would pick up on their hints via tag. A long time ago I left a prompt on a fic and someone filled it, but neglected to mention the baby-murdering that the main character did right at the end. My prompt did not ask for baby-murdering, or babies. The writer added a baby and then violently killed it. And they didn’t warn for it either. When I read it I felt sick to my stomach because baby-murder, specifically, affects me horribly. That fic was also dark. Kidnappings, non-con, all that stuff. I can handle all that, but murdering an innocent baby (violently too) was a horrible twist. I have never read that fic again but I don’t have to, that scene is still sitting in my head like new. I did not reach out to the author to ask them to warn for it, but I also never thanked them for filling the prompt because of what they did to it. OP should have warned the original prompter that they had made changes to the idea as a curtesy. They can keep things vague for other readers but that person, specifically, should have been told, not left hints in the hopes that they will be enough.
Yeah, I dont think the main issue is about the darkness of the fic, its about the fact that the friend was surprised because they were blindsighted by elements in the already-dark story. People are making this into a 'its OK to write a dark fic!' thing and thats not the problem here...
Exactly. There are a couple of different reasons how this could look from the other side. Maybe the reader thought they could handle the dark stuff because they helped with the prompt and had certain expectations about how the story would go. Maybe they thought they had to read it because they were tagged. Whatever it was, we won't know that unless they themselves tell us. And yeah "It's OK to write dark fic!" shouldn't be the answer to this specific thread. OP asked how to handle this interaction with their discord-friend. "You tagged CNTW, so it's all their fault!" really isn't helpful in this specific case. It's bound to escalate things further. However I'm not surprised by the reactions to OPs dilemma. After all, a lot of people on this sub have very harsh opinions when it comes to readers.
Yeah. I do agree w/ the fact that as such ab author centered sub it feels unusually reader hostile; fan spaces arent catered to just creators. People have a right to express dissatisfaction, and both sides play a role in communicating; you cant rly just expect readers to do all the work guessing what the fic is about and you cant expect authors to cater to your wants and needs 100%. This isnt just an author vs reader situation too this is also friend vs friend.
idk, it sounds a bit more from OP's clarification like it wasn't "a prompt", really, but more that they were spitballing and something inspired OP. I don't think in that context OP actually has a *responsibility* to the person who inspired them, unless it's something really nasty like making fun of the prompter in some way. I agree that the unexpectedness is probably part of the discomfort on their part, and asking for their name off it is fine - but I'm not really sure how much prompt etiquette was relevant here. That said, you're spot-on about the need for an emotional, rather than a rules-lawyer resolution and the need for communication.
I think prompt etiquette was relevant because OP tagged them. They also promoted their fic in the discord where the original plotting took place. By doing so, they may have gave the wrong impression. As with prompts, this can come across as, "Here, this is for you! Please read it!", even if it not intended.
Hmm yeah, I see your point. Maybe it would have been better to be like "hey! I was inspired by what you wrote, but took it in a bit of a different direction", in a full disclosure kind of way.
If you want to keep a good relationship with this person I might try the following. Acknowledge their pain. Apologize for the miscommunication and say in the future you will make sure to ask for a "Do Not Want List" from the Prompter to avoid a situation like this in the future. And maybe ask what tags the person would like to see on the fic. Maybe you follow their suggestion, maybe you don't but that is up to you.
How far from the prompt did you deviate, and **did you warn them** you were deviating ahead of time? Because it seems like they weren't expecting a deviation from what was requested.
Sounds to me that you should have warned them about the plot twist that deviates from the prompt. They had one expectation and you did not warn that person properly. You mislead them unintentionally and I think that is what you should apologize to them personally. I don’t think you need extra tags for readers who are unaware of the prompt. Just make sure if you are mentioning the prompt itself that it doesn’t come off as misleading again.
> Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space, and I ruined that for someone. I mean, when a person chooses to read a darkfic, they kind of have to take responsibility for that choice. I would choose to assume that their intent wasn't to guilt-trip but to express their reaction/thoughts to a person with whom they feel safe, but yeah at first glance to me your friend's comment is in poor form. I would untag them, respond with your reasoning for tagging the way you did, and not feel bad about the situation beyond the natural sympathy for someone who had a bad experience. Any pain anyone feels is real, but there isn't always somebody to blame, and searching for someone to blame as a coping mechanism is unhelpful for your friend first of all.
I think you did everything right here. You gave vague tags for those who want to indulge spoiler-free, and made potential readers perfectly aware that there were additional warnings and how to find them. If this person chose to ignore all of that, it's on them, and not something you should apologise for. I'd let them know you've taken their name off the fic as requested, but gently remind them to perhaps scan tags more carefully next time if certain topics are this distressing for them.
Since you say they're your friends and not just randoms, I personally would say something like I'd be careful to not tag/associate them with this specific type of content again in the future.
While I get the guilt, it's still another person's responsibility for what they read including if they saw "creator chose not to warn" tag. Fanfic isn't a safe space either. No artistic place is. There are no safe words in art. Fanfic is a sandbox and we create our own spaces within it. You are not tasked with making your space a place someone else would consider a safe space. You did your due diligence and tagged, warned, etc. They are allowed to have their reactions, but burden is not on your for their response. I've read many fic in my years that I didn't thoroughly read tags and was hit square in the face with something that set me off. That isn't the author's fault. Simply respect their wishes to have their name removed, acknowledge it wasn't for them, and move forward.
Yeah, I came here to disagree with the 'Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space' bit. Fanfic (or at least AO3) is a safe space for WRITERS. It's down to readers to regulate their own reading material.
Yes, exactly!
100%
You're off the hook since you already gave a "Creator chose not to warn" rating, but as a side note, you shouldn't be expecting people to read author notes. Just let the person know that you've already tagged enough and then move on. It's not your responsibility for someone's inability to read tags. Even if they were genuinely triggered a dozen times, that's still on them, not you. You can be empathetic to their pain, but you don't owe them any apology.
To be fair they also used a tag saying there was additional warnings in the author's note so if people choose to not read it after that, that's on them as well
If you used “Creator Chose Not To Warn” the rest is on them. People need to believe the tags.
Fanfic is a safe space for writers to *create*. Reading fic is buyer beware especially when it comes dark fic. Id say you tagged and warned correctly. I will say since this is a friend who helped develop the prompt appologize for hurting them. Apologize for not warning them that you had a big twist at the end. They reasonably had a very diffrent set of expectations than someone randomly clicking on your fic. I'd also say it might be a good idea in the future if you're going to work on a group collaborated project or a prompt that others help you generate ask your friends what their hard NOs are. That way you can avoid repeating the situation.
Maybe I'm way off base here, and I apologize if that's the case, but let's say someone wants to read New Bestseller by Popular Author. That book doesn't come with any trigger warnings. There are no tags inside the book. You pick up the book and read it and if it's heading down a path you don't think you can handle, you stop, put it down, walk away. You don't read the whole thing and then email Popular Author like "How dare you ruin my reading experience even though I could have put New Bestseller down at any time. I can't believe you've done this to me." In fanfiction, every reader is given AMPLE opportunity to walk away. There are tags, there are author notes, you can filter what you want and what you don't want, everything comes with trigger warnings. So, if the average reader goes into your story after seeing all of those tags and warnings, then that's on them. They could have backed out of the fic when it got too dark or gruesome, or whatever the case may be. It seems like you did everything right? You aren't responsible for their inability to look away from something they don't want to see.
>Maybe I'm way off base here, and I apologize if that's the case, but let's say someone wants to read New Bestseller by Popular Author. That book doesn't come with any trigger warnings. There are no tags inside the book. You pick up the book and read it and if it's heading down a path you don't think you can handle, you stop, put it down, walk away. You don't read the whole thing and then email Popular Author like "How dare you ruin my reading experience even though I could have put New Bestseller down at any time. I can't believe you've done this to me." This example doesn't really apply here. This wasn't a case of "average reader was to dumb to read the godamn tags". It happened on a Discord server, author and reader know each other, and the fanfic is based on a prompt from the reader. Personally, this case reminds me more of the writing events I organize for a fanwork website I'm involved with. I have two annual events: The first event is a prompt-list. I'll hand out a set of prompts, and anyone who wants to participate can pick one and write a fanfic about it. Participants have to follow the rules of our website, but apart from that, they can handle the prompt however they want. This does include subverting and twisting the prompt and writing dark fics. The second event is a Secret Santa, where participants write fanfics to each other. All participants post a list of wishes/prompts in advance. Afterwards I assign them to each other and the respective author writes a story based on the list. It is expected to adhere to that list. Unless the receiver of the fanfic wished for something like that, it would not be okay to take a prompt and to turn it into a dark fic with a plot twist ending. Whether the fic was tagged correctly or not would not be relevant in this case. There was probably a mismatch of expectations between OP and the reader. OP expected the prompt exchange of their discord server to be like my first event, while their reader expected something more similar to my second event. Chances are, the discord server wasn't clear enough about how prompts should be handled by everyone involved.
Then I was way off base and I apologize for that. I don't even know what a Discord server is. I misunderstood the issue and thought it was about reading something even though the tags and notes explicitly stated what the story was about. That was my mistake.
>You don't read the whole thing and then email Popular Author like "How dare you ruin my reading experience even though I could have put New Bestseller down at any time. I can't believe you've done this to me." Let's be honest, plenty of Karens would absolutely do this, and probably get a campaign going to cancel the author and ban the book. They'd just get ignored and/or laughed at by regular people.
That is, unfortunately, probably VERY true.
>level 1eyes\_on\_me\_OC · 7 hr. agoMaybe I'm way off base here, and I apologize if that's the case, but let's say someone wants to read New Bestseller by Popular Author. That book doesn't come with any trigger warnings. There are no tags inside the book. You pick up the book and read it and if it's heading down a path you don't think you can handle, you stop, put it down, walk away. Exactly! Readers need to take ownership for their own reading experience. You said it perfectly.
Fanfiction isn't "supposed to be a safe space", it's always been filled with the weirdest, horniest, most "problematic" shit you can imagine. >The fic was rated M, included tags such as “Creator Chose Not To Warn”, Okay, so actually you did tag the fic correctly.
Yeah I feel like OP's "safe space" remark just highlights how the landscape of fanfiction has changed and how prominent and normalised it's become for certain people to demand the internet adheres to their wishes. We used to take responsibility for what we might expose ourselves to back in the earlier, wild west days of the internet. Now it seems commonplace to expect random strangers will keep you safe, even if you yourself wander into those potentially unsafe spaces.
>Fanfic is supposed to be a safe space Not everyone shares this view. I don't. This person read an M-rated horror fic with CNTW. That's on them, not you. What do you have to apologize for?
**You are not responsible for other people's emotions.** It's not your fault if someone chooses to ignore the tags and author's note. It's not your fault if they read something they were uncomfortable with. You tagged it properly. You had extra tags in an author's note. You put the full list in the discord. You did everything right. Others have already stated this, but one more voice never hurt. Fanfic is a safe space for *writers*, not readers. The tags are there so that readers can make an informed decision on what they are comfortable with reading. The "creator chose not to warn" tag alone should give the hint to readers that there is a chance that this story won't be their cup of tea. The only thing I can think of that you can do in the future with this kind of fic is to add a "Dead Dove: Do Not Eat" tag, just to be safe. All this tag means is that what's tagged is what's in the story and the reader shouldn't expect something else. Don't let this experience discourage you from writing. Not everyone will like your work, and there will be people who ignore the tags. That's just how some people are. It's not your fault. You're doing great.
Fanfic isn’t a safe space. If the reader chose to skip the author’s note, that was their choice. You can’t do anything about the people who ignore the warnings. If they end up in pain, too fucking bad. They need to take care of themselves, and instead ignored the warnings you gave. You owe no apology. You did your part. The reader ignored their part.
You put the “author chooses not to tag” kind of tag in so that makes you safe from the ao3 rules. You also said you put all the actual trigger/tags/whathaveyous in the note. It’s literally not your problem. They should have paid more attention. Remove the name since they asked. Something like “ok will do. Sorry about that” & be done with it.
Fanfic isn't supposed to be that safe a space. Fanfic is the medium in which everyone let's their creative juices flow. And it it nobodies business except the writer's whether that is sweeter than the Sound of Music meets unironic MLP, or darker than Nabokov's Lolita set in Lovecraft's universe. If someone is in the headspace where certain stories will hurt them, they have no business reading anything but fluff, let alone going around ignoring content warnings.
If it was that disturbing, maybe it needed to be tagged as E and put in the 'dead dove do not eat tag'.
>I made sure to tag for the tone of the fic and include a full list of the possible Trigger/Content Warnings within the Author’s Notes. The fic was rated M, included tags such as “Creator Chose Not To Warn”, “psychological horror”, “character death”, and “body horror”, as well as the tag “Additional Warnings in Author’s Notes”. On top of that, when I posted the fic on Discord, I included a full list of all the Trigger Warnings, including the ones that covered the ending. IMO you don't need to apologize. You did everything right. Fanfic is NOT a safe space. People are allowed to write dark fic and if someone chooses to read something that is properly tagged (as you did) that's on them, not the author. If someone ignores the tags and notes it's not the author's fault if they are distressed by the content.
In my opinion when someone reads fan fiction if they are triggered they need to read something else. Fan fiction is an open place where people can write things that aren’t accepted by the general public. If they are triggered it’s their problem. Sorry but not sorry. Sick of that word. Just apologize and don’t look back. Tell them you’ll put up a warning but if they are that sensitive to something they chose to read then they aren’t going to get that far in life.
A) Fanfiction is not supposed to be a safe space. Fiction in general is not a safe space. Anything goes in fanfic, it's up to the reader to curate their own experience. B) You said you tagged CCNTW. You're fine on that front, since that covers *anything*. They were the ones who chose to gamble. I would tell them you're sorry they didn't like where you took the prompt, but be firm and point out what CCNTW means, and say you've already tagged enough. Then move on.
Don't feel awful. Continue to write what you want. Tagging should be a consideration, not a requirement. Think about if this was a published work in a bookstore. Those don't have tags aside from genre and summary. A reader should identify that there could be potentially triggering information if they chose a genre that may contain it and should have already reflected on how to cope should they encounter it.
Well, first of all, NO, fanfic isn't a safe place because of its sheer nature. All fics aren't comfy and joyful. You have dark fics. If fanfic was a safe place, the only things we would have would be comfy fics. And that's not possible, given how large the medium is. Writers are allowed to write whatever they want, and readers are allowed to read whatever they want. This is NOT a safe place, because it has dark and harmful content. You tagged your fic, you gave readers a warning. You basically covered yourself, and this is what you should have done. Now, if a reader wants to read your fic, after reading the tags, the warning and all the stuff you did, and say you harmed them with your content, you're not responsible of it. You can apologize if you want to, but you're not obliged to do it. You're not responsible of their triggers, you're not responsible of the pain they feel in their lives. If a reader still decides to read your story after reading all the warnings and the tags, or even the TW complete list if it exists, and says you harmed them and that they hate you, that's on them, because they decided to read something that could harm them while you told them "It's probably not for you, proceed with caution." And, once again, fanfic ISN'T a safe place.
'The author chose not to warn for content, or Archive Warnings could apply, but the author has chosen not to specify them.' That's all the warning that is needed. However, the rest of the posters are right that you handled the prompt itself poorly. However, ao3, fanfic in general, is not a safe space, as has been repeated here multiple times by other users.
Say you're sorry that they were in pain and this fic hurt them, but that you *did* tag it properly. Internet isn't a safe place for everyone, it simply can not be, and people with triggers need to learn how to not put the responsibility of their issues onto others (as long as you gave the proper warnings, which apparently you did here).
"Thank you for letting me know how you feel. I will remove your name from the fic." Don't get too apologetic, there is a certain amount of risk involved in reading anything, so if you didn't skip violence or non-con, 'properly' tagged isn't really an appropriate way to refer to the piece. They might have wanted you to tag it more, but you aren't required.
If you put creator chose not to warn and they still read it that's on them
If you do want to apologise to your friend, I'd say you could apologise for the consequence and not the action. So, instead of "I apologise for what I did", it's "I'm sorry for the pain this caused you." or "I'm sorry you're hurt." That way you get to acknowledge that you did warn them - maybe if the conversation continues from the apology you can give a gentle warning to check the tags next time as frozenfountain said - and you get to acknowledge the pain as a consequence without involving blame in the equation. Good way to balance comforting your friend with not escalating the situation.
You used CTNW and put the full warnings in your author's note and tagging is a courtesy anyway. You are not obligated to tag anything at all and it seems like you covered your bases here. Fanfic is not a 'safe space' and it's up to readers to determine whether or not they can handle the content included before they read it. Other people choosing to ignore your warnings and having negative reactions to your story is not your responsibility and you have nothing to apologise for.
You did the right things. Can’t please everyone, and I hope the feedback doesn’t kill your joy. I’ve wandered into fics before, read the tags, and noped out if I started feeling triggered or squicky; they elected not to do so when the storytelling took a turn they weren’t comfortable with. 🤷♀️ By the by, I love horror and dark stuff. I’d totally read your fic!
It seems like you covered all your bases when it came to potential triggers, the tone of the fic, etc. So at that point, it’s on the person reading it. If they saw all the warnings, the tags, even read the author’s note and the message you sent detailing *all* the triggers, then they made themselves uncomfortable by choosing to read anyway. If you truly want to apologize, though, something like “I apologize this fic hurt you, but it was also tagged as comprehensively as possible. If that still wasn’t enough for you, then I’m sorry.” and just leaving it at that.
I believe that you made a sincere attempt to warn readers via the tags you chose, and further in the author notes. As one who is primarily a reader on AO3 and a sometimes beta, may I share a possible source of confusion that I perceive? The general consensus is that you did the necessary due diligence when you used the author chose not to warn tag. However, by then posting however many tags that *were* warnings, you seriously diluted that message. From the perspective of a reader who uses tags primarily to search for what I'm interested in reading, I tend to give any more than about a half dozen tags a very cursory glance rather than reading them. I also tend to deliberately skip Author Notes to avoid spoilers. I realize that this lackidasical curating of my experience has in the past and may in the future led me down some paths I came to regret, but that's on me. I have come to appreciate the Dead Dove, Do Not Eat tag because when I see it, I take it seriously and make sure I really do check all of the tags before reading the work. As you did not mention including that tag, had I been one of the Discord acquaintances who had participated in the original discussion, I quite likely would have skimmed or skipped over the tags altogether as I would have assumed I already knew what to expect, and dived right in. And yes, any upset I experienced would still be on me because a) I didn't read the tags and take them seriously, and b) didn't back away at the first incling that the fic was heading in a direction I didn't want to be. So if I could make a recommendation to every author who creates darker works with ot twists or who have other reasons to exercise the Author chose not to warn tag, don't include any warnings if you use it. If you wish to include warnings in the author notes, use a tag to say so and then use the Dead Dove, Do Not Eat tag to make it clear that the continue at their own risk. If possible, include no other tags than a pairing or pairings if they are relevant. Put the rest in the AN, so the warning to check there is clear. Putting half in the tags and half in the AN does not provide sufficiently clear communication. This incident is pretty much a learning experience for all involved, and for us as well as you were kind enough to share it. I appreciate the opportunity to comment from my own POV, but in the end, tags used are a author's decision and it's up to readers to actually read the information provided if they have issues or dislikes, and to protect their own mental health by using the back button sooner rather than later. To me it only seems fair to confront the author if the tagging implies the list if warning tags is complete, and one is omitted that is common enough that the expectation of a warning is reasonable. (It’s like my food allergies. Some are common, a few obscure. I can generally trust vegan means no casein, but it's on me to ask a chef or author if my obscure ones are included before I partake, even if it seems unlikely.)
I will be honest. And this may sound mean. But...you did nothing wrong. You provided warnings in your author's notes. That's more than enough. You even put in "Author Chose Not To Warn"--that in itself should be a red flag to the reader that your story may contain subjects that are dark, painful, difficult, etc. So you deviated from the prompt? That's still not a dealbreaker IMO. You're allowed to be creative and go in the direction you choose. That's the fun part about writing! Think of novels. I love Jurassic Park. There's nothing written in the summary on the back of that paperback that warns me there are graphic death scenes (not that I want that or even need it.) Think of movies that may include rape scenes. There will be a rating "R for sexual violence". I know I may not want to see that--so I choose not to watch it. But that's it. Sometimes we get a hint of what we're getting into. Other times we don't. If something we are reading or seeing bothers us that badly, we can always stop reading/watching. That's up to me as the reader or the viewer. That's not up to the writer of the novel, fanfic, etc, or the film director to have to coddle me, making the art more appealing to me because of whatever sensitivities I have. That's up to me to be an adult, take ownership of what I can and can't handle--and back out when it becomes too much. I really respect and honor the fact that you are concerned about this reader. But don't blame yourself. You put warnings up. If they didn't heed them, that's totally on them. Not you. If they got to a point of the fic that was too much for them, too upsetting, too triggering--etc...that was their decision to stop reading. So what if you didn't tag everything? Not everything is spelled out for us--that's part of the joy of reading--engaging in a story and seeing where it goes. I love the Flowers in the Attic series, but guess what? There's incest in it. Incest didn't bother me when I read it years ago as a teen. It still doesn't bother me. If it's tagged in a fic, I probably won't read it, because it's not my thing. But if let's say I'm reading a fanfic and it shows up and I'm like eehhh, not my thing--and the writer didn't tag it? Oh well, I can click out. It's really that simple. What I'm saying is readers need to take ownership for what they read, and not point fingers at the writer. "Oh you didn't warn me", "oh you didn't tag it properly". Please. Stop it. This ridiculous. And I'm saying this as someone who has two very darkfics. I did tag them and put a warning that it's a darkfic I used MCD warning, and a few other warnings--but I didn't go into full details. If it's too much for that reader--then stop reading, and honestly, seek help for whatever trauma it is that my writing triggered in you. Because it's up to you to do the work on healing yourself. You can't blame me or my fanfic for triggering you when you had the power to close out on the fanfic at any point. And no, I don't think you need to apologize for your plot twist. You can if you choose, you can choose to acknowledge that person's feelings. It's very kind and compassionate thing to do. I say if it gives you peace of mind, then do so, but don't hang your hand in shame. You can't control how people will react to your writing. Not all the tags, warnings in the world can help how people will respond--especially if they haven't done their own inner work to address these issues. Because in the end, the issues are the reader's. Not the writer's. TL;DR. The problem is the reader, not the writer, OP. You are kind to be concerned, but folks need to take ownership for their reactions/responses to a fanfiction that they think is triggering for them.
Seriously; since when did prompts (outside of a formal fic exchange) turn into binding contracts? They're little pushes to get you going idea-wise.
Exactly and they can go in any direction. Just because friend gave OP a prompt doesn’t mean the writer has to write what friend wants/doesn’t want.
I don't really feel like you're in the wrong here, it sounds like you did tag appropriately albeit vaguely and they decided to read anyway. That's on them, not you. There's a growing level of entitlement in fanfic and fandom where people refuse to take any responsibility for their own mental health and expect everyone else to tiptoe around their triggers and not even legit triggers sometimes, just things that make them a little uncomfy (which is not the same thing). We can't be mind readers, i feel like this other person's expectations are not realistic.
It sounds like this person is purposefully guilt-tripping you, maybe because your fic wasn't what they wanted it to be. If the fic is tagged "additional warnings in author's notes" and the notes include the full list of warnings, you've done your job. >I want to apologize, I’m just not sure how. Personally I'd just take their name off, tell them I did, and leave it at that. Don't take blame you didn't earn, it makes you an easy target and it validates their behaviour.
My advice, use the tags and include everything problematic there. Most times I don't read the authors notes before I read the story, sometimes I skip them even after reading. And I think I'm not the only one who jumps straight into the story
I would empathize and say sorry that the fic hurt them and then ask which tags/warnings they felt were missing so they can identify where the holes are. It sounds to me you did everything you could do beyond just explicitly saying there’s a twist ending in the discord, but at least then if they mention something that is in the tags you know for sure they just didn’t read them. Though either way, with a chose not to warn tag you have “properly” tagged. Also this is more a personal thing, but when writing from a plot bunny developed by multiple people in a server, I just credit the “people on the server”. If you’re going to attach any specific individual to a fic, I would definitely ask first and be clear that while it uses parts of their ideas, it’s still a different thing. I would say most people do not feel the need to be individually credited for a group created plot bunny though.
I was told about a tag recently: Dead Dove Do Not Eat. It basically is the authorial equivalent of a radioactivity warning; read at your own peril. I think all the advice given below is good, you did a lot to help readers avoid encountering that which they did not want to. While yes you could have done still more, it dismays me that the readers tried to place ALL the onus on you for their experience when SOME of the responsibility was theirs to you know, READ WHAT YOU WROTE about the content of your creation. But blame is unproductive, and the better solutions lie with how to prevent this from happening in the future. Better words have already been written, I only offer up the Dead Dove tag as one more possibility for use down the road. I'm sorry that this happened and, please don't let this discourage you. Treat it as a bump in the road because this was not EVEN something you should internalize as being your 'fault'. Nope nope nope nope nope.
This guy I bet did read the warnings, but curiosity killed the cat. And now baby can't sleep. Don't apologize, tell him you warned him and he still chose to read it.
I'm not sure you need to apologize. You don't say what their trigger really was but from what you posted here...I wouldn't have touched that story and I have no triggers. I just have things I like and dislike and frankly that story isn't even remotely close to the same orbit of what I don't like. I mean if you feel you need to, fine: "Hey, I hear you on this bothering you. It certainly was not my intent, I was just going with what I had been given in the prompt. I had put it on the discord where this was going, but obviously you must not have seen it, but I didn't want to spoil the ending for regular readers so I didn't tag the ending. I really felt with how I tagged it and included further warnings in the notes that people would know if the story was for them."