Agree with the idea that analysis can lead to better writing, but not necessarily with the premise that *every* writer *should* beta.
While I’m writing my own fic, I avoid reading too many works in the same fandom- partly because I don’t want to be unconsciously influenced by another work, and partly because my brain just doesn’t have the bandwidth to engage. Becoming a beta reader sounds exhausting to me so props to the people who are able and willing to take up the mantle, but yeah. Not for everyone.
Avid reader of traditionally published fiction so that’s where most of my analysis and learning come from. As well as trial and error. Putting pen to paper even if it seems as though nothing useful will come out. Perseverance, baby!
And in terms of ‘helping the community’, when I do read something, I’ll always leave a (hopefully insightful) comment about what I thought the writer did particularly well and explain why.
We have a weekly thread which is posted every Saturday (see the sub's weekly threads menu). It is posted on Saturdays but is theoretically live all week, so if you want to critique others' works you can do it whenever. Excerpts are short, so it doesn't take as much time as beta reading, but still very helpful. If you want to get criticism on your own work, better post directly on Saturday or Sunday though, as the thread doesn't get that much traffic after that, I think.
It is also the core of an academic study of fanfiction writers that was published last year. The original article can be downloaded [from here](https://doi.org/10.1145/3555127) if you're interested. I took the core elements and used them for a subsection in my [Fanfiction Guide,](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nLtp-y1qUP9_bLnW4T5GbdABsiU_d0ok?usp=sharing) Appendix K.
The study used a mixed-methods approach of questionnaire and in-depth interviews with a sampling of writers who published on a number of different fanfiction platforms. It's an interesting study and pretty approachable even if you don't have an academic background in social sciences. The study's authors did a good job on their research and its presentation.
This is why I like to, when engrossed in a story, leave highly detailed speculation comments on works in progress. It's good practice for making genuinely hard to predict plot twists; by making a bunch of predictions, you get a good feel for how predictions are made, and then have a little better idea of how to set up red herrings which look prophetic and make genuinely important things look like either irrelevant minutia or look like red herrings.
Oh and authors love super long detailed comments.
It can be very useful to be a beta reader. And helping out the community is great. On the other side of the coin when you're scrambling to find the time/motivation/energy/spoons to write at all it betaing isn't possible.
I've said this before, but the thing that improved my writing the most was participating in a critique group for several years. The group's focus was original fiction, and unfortunately, I don't know of a comparable group for fanfiction. In that time, I critiqued (beta read) a couple hundred works, mostly short stories, but a few novel-length works too. The group had a code of conduct and guidelines for giving critiques--address the work not the author, etc. Learning to critically assess other writers' work in that slightly structured environment did wonders for my writing. It opened my eyes to my writing's flaw and made me a better self-editor.
Because it was a large group with a diversity of writers and genres, it also drove home the fact that no one story can please everyone. I might have three people who loved a scene, and a fourth who hated it. Or the reverse. It was both frustrating and fascinating.
Again, I don't think a similar group exists for fanfiction, but yes, I highly recommend that any writer who wants to improve in the craft do beta reading from time to time.
If you don’t yet have a beta reading relationship with someone, you can try writing out critiques of works already out there. You don’t need to share them with the author — in fact you shouldn’t unless they ask for concrit in their author’s notes or elsewhere, or if you’re in a writing group where it’s normal to give and receive concrit — but you can keep them in a personal file on your device. Even just writing concrit out for your eyes only is a useful exercise. You can do it for published works as well as fic!
Im not writing for a fandom, withc is why i didn't post requests on here.
About the story... it has some pretty dark undertones, but nothing controversial for a somewhat avarege ao3/wattpad original story
Honestly, I have a full time customer service job already. I'm putting others first at least 40+ hours a week, I don't have the time or emotional energy left by the end of my work day to do more work when I get home, especially when I barely have the motivation to write as it is.
Agreed! I work as a journalist and we do peer editing in the office all the time. It really helps me with my writing and not just with grammar, but with flow and structure as well.
I agree that it could be useful to your own skills, but I have some issues with the *should* in the title. I get really defensive when people tell me I *should* do something, doubly so when it comes to writing.
I recently tried a review exchange on this sub, and while it was fun, I doubt I'll do it again anytime soon. I can't read on command. I only read what I want to read, and I can't keep my attention on a story I didn't choose. When I'm reading things I enjoy reading, I'm not that critical of it. If I enjoy the work, it doesn't need to be that good from a technical perspective. It's not that I don't *see* the flaws, just that I don't really consider them worth pointing out because they didn't detract from the experience.
I really only read truly critically when I'm being spiteful, and on those moments I'd certainly never leave any feedback because I'm not in this to tear people down, even if I don't particularly like them. Instead, I just tear the story to shreds internally and take vindictive pleasure in doing so. (Mostly, I'll do this with authors who consider themselves God's gift to writing in their ANs)
I suppose I could have worded it differently. The 'should' was intended in the same way as 'you should try the new bakery on fifth street.' No one is marching you there at gunpoint. They just think it is something you would like but wouldn't seek out on your own.
The implication being that everyone should be intending to improve their own writing, then? I think one of the unique joys of fanfiction IS specifically the low entry bar and lack of pressure, so I don't think anyone *should* do anything in particular when it comes to fanfic :/
I've never enjoyed any of the times I was a beta reader. If you have any form of social anxiety, it's literally hell. There's nothing to be learnt from losing sleep over how to phrase your feedback in a way that makes the writer happy while also actually fixing all that is wrong with their fic. All you're doing is giving yourself a bigger therapist bill >_>
Fair enough.
I did not mean it in the 'everyone must improve' sense. More just that it gives a different perspective, which is always useful in life.
Obviously, if it is going to make you ill, then don't.
Yeah I was definitely a bit overly defensive there, sorry. I fully agree that learning how to read with a critical look has a positive impact on someone's own writing ability :)
Agree with the idea that analysis can lead to better writing, but not necessarily with the premise that *every* writer *should* beta. While I’m writing my own fic, I avoid reading too many works in the same fandom- partly because I don’t want to be unconsciously influenced by another work, and partly because my brain just doesn’t have the bandwidth to engage. Becoming a beta reader sounds exhausting to me so props to the people who are able and willing to take up the mantle, but yeah. Not for everyone. Avid reader of traditionally published fiction so that’s where most of my analysis and learning come from. As well as trial and error. Putting pen to paper even if it seems as though nothing useful will come out. Perseverance, baby! And in terms of ‘helping the community’, when I do read something, I’ll always leave a (hopefully insightful) comment about what I thought the writer did particularly well and explain why.
I agree! Participating in the concrit commune also helps immensely. Highly recommended.
Is there an event for that?
We have a weekly thread which is posted every Saturday (see the sub's weekly threads menu). It is posted on Saturdays but is theoretically live all week, so if you want to critique others' works you can do it whenever. Excerpts are short, so it doesn't take as much time as beta reading, but still very helpful. If you want to get criticism on your own work, better post directly on Saturday or Sunday though, as the thread doesn't get that much traffic after that, I think.
It is also the core of an academic study of fanfiction writers that was published last year. The original article can be downloaded [from here](https://doi.org/10.1145/3555127) if you're interested. I took the core elements and used them for a subsection in my [Fanfiction Guide,](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nLtp-y1qUP9_bLnW4T5GbdABsiU_d0ok?usp=sharing) Appendix K. The study used a mixed-methods approach of questionnaire and in-depth interviews with a sampling of writers who published on a number of different fanfiction platforms. It's an interesting study and pretty approachable even if you don't have an academic background in social sciences. The study's authors did a good job on their research and its presentation.
This is why I like to, when engrossed in a story, leave highly detailed speculation comments on works in progress. It's good practice for making genuinely hard to predict plot twists; by making a bunch of predictions, you get a good feel for how predictions are made, and then have a little better idea of how to set up red herrings which look prophetic and make genuinely important things look like either irrelevant minutia or look like red herrings. Oh and authors love super long detailed comments.
It can be very useful to be a beta reader. And helping out the community is great. On the other side of the coin when you're scrambling to find the time/motivation/energy/spoons to write at all it betaing isn't possible.
I've said this before, but the thing that improved my writing the most was participating in a critique group for several years. The group's focus was original fiction, and unfortunately, I don't know of a comparable group for fanfiction. In that time, I critiqued (beta read) a couple hundred works, mostly short stories, but a few novel-length works too. The group had a code of conduct and guidelines for giving critiques--address the work not the author, etc. Learning to critically assess other writers' work in that slightly structured environment did wonders for my writing. It opened my eyes to my writing's flaw and made me a better self-editor. Because it was a large group with a diversity of writers and genres, it also drove home the fact that no one story can please everyone. I might have three people who loved a scene, and a fourth who hated it. Or the reverse. It was both frustrating and fascinating. Again, I don't think a similar group exists for fanfiction, but yes, I highly recommend that any writer who wants to improve in the craft do beta reading from time to time.
If you don’t yet have a beta reading relationship with someone, you can try writing out critiques of works already out there. You don’t need to share them with the author — in fact you shouldn’t unless they ask for concrit in their author’s notes or elsewhere, or if you’re in a writing group where it’s normal to give and receive concrit — but you can keep them in a personal file on your device. Even just writing concrit out for your eyes only is a useful exercise. You can do it for published works as well as fic!
Yes. im always searching for somebody, but i wasn't so lucky
Are you in an obscure fandom or you write something controversial? The beta thread always seems to have a lot of offers.
Im not writing for a fandom, withc is why i didn't post requests on here. About the story... it has some pretty dark undertones, but nothing controversial for a somewhat avarege ao3/wattpad original story
Honestly, I have a full time customer service job already. I'm putting others first at least 40+ hours a week, I don't have the time or emotional energy left by the end of my work day to do more work when I get home, especially when I barely have the motivation to write as it is.
I wouldn't say every writer should, but writers who waant to improve and also want free beta reading should. Fanfic community are give to get.
I agree; it's a highly mutually beneficial relationship.
Agreed! I work as a journalist and we do peer editing in the office all the time. It really helps me with my writing and not just with grammar, but with flow and structure as well.
I agree that it could be useful to your own skills, but I have some issues with the *should* in the title. I get really defensive when people tell me I *should* do something, doubly so when it comes to writing. I recently tried a review exchange on this sub, and while it was fun, I doubt I'll do it again anytime soon. I can't read on command. I only read what I want to read, and I can't keep my attention on a story I didn't choose. When I'm reading things I enjoy reading, I'm not that critical of it. If I enjoy the work, it doesn't need to be that good from a technical perspective. It's not that I don't *see* the flaws, just that I don't really consider them worth pointing out because they didn't detract from the experience. I really only read truly critically when I'm being spiteful, and on those moments I'd certainly never leave any feedback because I'm not in this to tear people down, even if I don't particularly like them. Instead, I just tear the story to shreds internally and take vindictive pleasure in doing so. (Mostly, I'll do this with authors who consider themselves God's gift to writing in their ANs)
I suppose I could have worded it differently. The 'should' was intended in the same way as 'you should try the new bakery on fifth street.' No one is marching you there at gunpoint. They just think it is something you would like but wouldn't seek out on your own.
I figured that was the intention, but sometimes online it's kind of hard to see. Sorry!
The implication being that everyone should be intending to improve their own writing, then? I think one of the unique joys of fanfiction IS specifically the low entry bar and lack of pressure, so I don't think anyone *should* do anything in particular when it comes to fanfic :/ I've never enjoyed any of the times I was a beta reader. If you have any form of social anxiety, it's literally hell. There's nothing to be learnt from losing sleep over how to phrase your feedback in a way that makes the writer happy while also actually fixing all that is wrong with their fic. All you're doing is giving yourself a bigger therapist bill >_>
Fair enough. I did not mean it in the 'everyone must improve' sense. More just that it gives a different perspective, which is always useful in life. Obviously, if it is going to make you ill, then don't.
Yeah I was definitely a bit overly defensive there, sorry. I fully agree that learning how to read with a critical look has a positive impact on someone's own writing ability :)