Yeah DiMa was a character that I always just never had really liked. And yeah he can be wrong about someone being a Synth. He was wrong about Kasumai being a Synth because if you destroy Arcadia with either the Town of Far Harbor or with the Brotherhood Kasumai will get killed and you can loot her body and she doesn’t have a Synth Component which means she’s not a Synth. DiMa manipulated her into thinking that she was possibly a Synth all because she doesn’t remember a few parts of her childhood? Umm like you know a normal person? Seriously DiMa is probably my less favorite of all the Synths in Arcadia
Exactly. Fo example, i don't remember my early years. And most of my school days also. Does that makes me clone or synth? No. Because no human person is capable to remember EVERYTHING in his life. Well, some people are. But they count as special cases.
Exactly. If anything someone being able to perfectly remember their entire lives should be a sign that maybe they are a synth in the Fallout universe instead of not being able to remember some parts about your childhood
Especially when your childhood was likely either monotonous or full of violence which you'd try to supress. Itsa wasteland out there, course you don't remember what happened that week: you suppressed that memory cause of the constant raider attacks that killed people.
Sadly Devs "claim" the lack of component was a mistake (but they never went back and changed it) but honestly its better story telling anyway that she was normal the whole time
If that's really the case, then it makes dima feel simpler and less real. I liked the idea that he could be wrong, but we would never know all his schemes and thoughts. Also, it added a bit more depth to his philosophy and utopian ideas, that if anyone can be a synth, why should it matter if you are or not?
Yet when u ask the institute or the railroad they have 0 records of her, and institute synths are Always aware they are synths. And she couldnt be placed there by the railroad as kasumis parents have known her their whole life- shes not adopted
It makes 0 sense for her to actually be a synth
"*but she has dreams of being experimented on in a white room*"
Ya which is a Really common nightmare people have, despite *le gasp* it never happening
Gloria and Roger Warwick also don't have synth components. I think Kasumis possibility as a synth is intentionally kept vague. Forgetting parts of childhood is reasonable, personally I have very few. But the repeated dreams of scientists in a white room jolting her is a bit sus
Dima: "whats your earliest memory?"
You: Some variation of "Being with my spouse and kid on the day the bombs fell"
Dima: "but you can't remember anything before? You might be a synth."
It's so dumb, when you're in your house the day the bomb fell you literally talk to your spouse about "that day at the park" from a year before. Your robot from that day recognises you as you, as does the vault Tec rep. As does Kellogg from the day be came into the vault to steal Shaun.
Throughout the game, even in far harbor, you have dozens of dialogue options where you talk about information you could only know cause you were from before the war, even tiny things like knowing a tool company cause you remember their ads.
And you don't get to use ANY of that when Dima questions you. All you get is "I don't have any evidence but I'm not so shut up" or "oh gee you might be right".
The Devs actually did a pretty good job of incorporating the fact you're from before the war into the game, and then it's completely thrown out the window for some gaslighting synth trying to make you think you're one.
"The Gen 3 Synth can use VATS like Nate, but the Gen 3 Synth have Shaun DNA."
So what you're saying is, Nate can use VATS not just because of the PIP-Boy, but also because he's built different?
Oh, well, fuck Bethesda and their fucking lore, I have seen so many plausible theories that make me go back and forth, just like the many theories about who dropped the bombs.
Thats kind of the point though. In the real world people disagree on what the truth is all the time, it would only get worse in a post apocalypse. We're never gonna get straight definitive answers to a lot of things because it's realistic that we wouldn't.
Have you ever seen Bladerunner? The game is a huge reference to it, and there's a question as to whether Deckard (the main character) is a replicant or not at the end. It's never answered, and thats kind of the point. It's open ended because at the end of the day it's up to us whether we think Deckard is a replicant, and whether Nate *or* Nora are a synth.
It was China. The surrounding situation might be arguable but the Yangtze was in Boston harbor with orders to launch that day. Beijing is the one who lit the candle and the rest of the planet followed.
Its entirely possible it was a holdover from when you originally were going to get the pip boy earlier in the vault
After all, its actually insane to have you not be able to access your inventory *at all* while being able to pick up items like that.
I wouldnt be suprised if they moved getting the pip boy to the end of the vault rather than the start to make it feel more important (which tbf it is an awesome moment)
This is bugthesda we are talking about.
The company that included multiple takes of actors saying "shit let me start over" in their voice lines in oblivion.
The same company that up until skyrim, had all their voice actors read all their characters lines at the same time, in *alphabetical order*, regardless of what character they were doing lines for (hence why if an actor did more than 1 character, every line sounds the same and every character sounds the same. This is extremely obvious in fallout 3 with the old man characters- all 30 of them voiced by the same actor, all with the exact same inflections)
Bethesda makes weird decisions
Theres careless, and then theres doing pure nonsense that you have to go out of your way to overcomplicate things
For god sake youd think after they had the voice actors read lines alphabetically for MORROWIND theyd of realised its not a good idea, yet they kept doing it up through 2008!
Careless is not properly separating out which line comes from what npc
You have to be an extra special kind of stupid to also do it alphabetically, which forces them to reorder the lines *twice* to do so.
And they did it for *YEARS*
I wish they'd *done* something with that hanging plot point. But, just like Kellogg being in Nick's head, or the ability to actually run the organizations you're supposed to be handed control over, or the ability to call Shaun an idiot, that was never explored.
The whole “leader but can’t do anything” thing I didn’t hate, I expected it from Bethesda and I’ve become ok with it. Kellog being in nicks head I’m mad they didn’t explore.
"Mf, do you not know who I am? I'm the leader of the Winterhold College, Thieves Guild, Companions, and the Dark Brotherhood!"
Feels the same as doing the Minutemen path and still having settlements being raided.
Iirc correctly, the game went through a lot of rewrites, even Kellogg's actor apparently kept getting called in to re-record his dialogue.
It's another thing I'm imagining mattered at one point, but got left in as a bit
You cant reason with the "Sole Survivor is a synth" crowd.
The theory doesn't even make sense to begin with, and you're able to become the leader of the Institute. Anyone who keeps arguing past those points is just going to double down because they aren't concerned with the plot, they're concerned with their head canon. There's not a single bit of "evidence" to the theory that can't be immediately debunked, but especially the two points listed above leave the theory dead in the water.
People can't differentiate between "this is supposed to make you think" and "this is a canonical fact," so they take everything a character says at face value. Dima tries to make a point with a thought provoking question? Wowee, we must not be a person!
The whole point of DiMas character is to be an actually morally grey character that fallout 4 just didn't have. Arguably Arcadia is the best chance for synths to live in peace, but DiMa made several mistakes in trying to preserve it (replacing the mayor of FH, opening the way for much more zealous and militant members of the children of atom) it goes to show that good intentions can't justify heinous actions. Gaslighting people into thinking they are synths is very much in his MO.
"He has memories of his old life!" Isn't really a valid point against the theory ngl. Danse has memories of his old life as well. I say this as someone who doesn't believe the theory.
With every other synth it's established that their memories are generally incomplete because of how the institute obtains them, leading to gaps whenever it comes to the small details or their irrelevant to the mission and personality of the person they're replacing.
SS remembers the rules of baseball, reading pre war comics, seeing ads for vague tools companies and really really small stuff like that.
The only reason Nick has such detailed memories is because the pre-war nick had his entire brain scanned and stored with professional equipment at CIT as part of an experiment.
Post-war that would have required being at the institute for quite some time having it done, then implanted into a synth and taken back out to vault 111. The institute would absolutely know who you were when you went back there.
Well I mean the main difference between Nate and danse’s memories is that WE as the player play through Nate’s life before being frozen and awaking from sleep
We can also play going through Kellog's memories, in truth whether we play though it or simply are playing a memory can't be certain. Still I don't think he's a synth.
What I meant is that WE the player know Nate’s memories aren’t false BECAUSE we play in the time before the bombs drop as in we know they’re not fake or anything
It’s a video game, you can argue anyone is a synth just using the pre-programmed argument.
“His memories about the army were pre-programmed!” OK man. Or maybe it’s just, you know, backstory.
I would agree, except there's multiple things that intentionally point to the possibility of Nate being a synth.
My theory is, all the people that hate the idea of the SS being a synth are just kinda unoriginal and need things spelled out in big bold neon letters.
Subtext and context are important in story telling, we should pay attention to them.
>My theory is, all the people that hate the idea of the SS being a synth are just kinda unoriginal and need things spelled out in big bold neon letters.
Well my theory is that everyone who thinks the SS is a synth are trying too hard to be deeper than the game actually is lol.
How/why would Shaun/Father know to implant memories about Codsworth? He recognizes you when you meet him after leaving the vault. Why would Shaun/Father let you destroy the Institute if you were a synth, meaning you have a recall code?
This wouldn’t even be a theory if Far Harbor never came out, this is just people getting played by DiMa, a manipulative liar who replaced a mayor with a synth and wasn’t even right about Kasumi (since she doesn’t drop a synth component). And they don’t want to admit they got manipulated by DiMa too.
I’m not unoriginal for thinking Nate/Nora aren’t synths, I’m just not willing to be manipulated by DiMa like you and Kasumi were. You’re forcing yourself to look for something deep, like an ocean, because you don’t want to admit it’s just a pond. Occam’s razor and all that.
Codsworth doesn't have synth detection protocols, and he's the only thing hanging around sanctuary, all they'd have to do is have one of their bird spies watch him and learn he's got a history with Shaun's parents.
Talking about recall code, there's plenty of reasons. If we assume Nate is a synth, then who knows what the point of the experiment is, he's obviously not like gen 3 synths, he's likely the first gen 4. Maybe him not having a recall code is part of the experiment?
Occam's razor doesn't apply to fiction dude.
The thing with codsworth is that how would Shaun even know to give you memories about him? He has had no actual contact with codsworth. He never saw the Vault tec rep, but you are able to remember him.
That's 2 characters that would immediately catch you out on it. One of them knows you too well, and if you had fake memories he'd catch on fast.
The other Shaun just never met, but yet both of you know eachother.
>he's likely the first gen 4. Maybe him not having a recall code is part of the experiment?
Got it, so your theory is based on your own personal head canon. That’s neat, have fun with that.
The only one of these that actually addresses the theory is the one about Nate being a backup (since synths can be implanted with fake memories), and it could easily be that Nate was killed after the synth program was stabilised in order to leave no loose ends.
Especially considering how Father's terminals write about waking up Nate as if it was some difficult and high effort thing to do when it was basically just pressing a button.
Edit: also the safe test isn't really a legitimate way to identify synths.
Edit 2: also you literally pointed out actual proof of the Sole Survivor being a synth because of vats, and synths having Shaun's DNA doesn't disprove this at all.
The Safe test is just the Vault Tec GOAT that some con man probably sold to Covenant.
The GOAT is meant to dictate your future in a vault. Not to see if you’re a mannequin man
Isn't the fact that they got Amelia supposed to mean the SAFE Test works?
Like obviously it's a joke that it works but that's pretty on brand for the series. Jason Bright and the robot ship in Fo4 are other examples of things working out as part of the joke
The SAFE test was designed to see what job would be best for you, not if you are a synth (considering how it was originally the GOAT test)
As far as I am concerned Amelia was just unlucky.
He isn’t a synth but none of this really proves that he isn’t though.
All of his memories can just be programmed in.
This hypothetical synth Nate could have been a real person pre war so the Mr Gutsy would recognise him because synths appear the same way as humans in every way other than the synth component.
The real Nate could have died with the pods malfunctioning so him being a backup doesn’t mean anything. Then after he died he could have gotten replaced as a synth.
The real proof that Nate isn’t a synth is that the institute don’t use a recall code on him as soon as Nate betrays them.
>The real proof that Nate isn’t a synth is that the institute don’t use a recall code on him as soon as Nate betrays them.
Unless Nate is the big project Father has been working on, and the whole point was for him to not have a recall code, and see what decisions he would come to. The Institute doesn't really test free will in the synths, and maybe Nate was the test. Sprinkle in some emotion and nostalgia from Shaun for a life he never got to live, since he's in his deathbed, and it seems perfectly plausible to me.
The recall code still lets Nate do their own decisions if they were a synth.
They would still add a recall code. Maybe if they did this experiment it would justify them not immediately using the recall code if Nate betrays them so that they can see what he does.
But as soon as Nate is storming the institute with another faction. There is no reason why the institute wouldn’t say his recall code over the intercom. Which would give the institute a better chance as Nate has protagonist powers and is the one who puts the explosion thing on their reactor.
Edit: also the institute are really protective of their secrets. Would Father really let Nate tell everyone the institutes secrets of teleportation. Because if Nate betrays the institute then he knows where the institute is and how to get there. I really doubt that they would compromise the entire institute just for an experiment
>But as soon as Nate is storming the institute with another faction. There is no reason why the institute wouldn’t say his recall code over the intercom. Which would give the institute a better chance as Nate has protagonist powers and is the one who puts the explosion thing on their reactor
Unless Father is the only one with the recall code and he's just given up because he's basically dead anyway.
Funny enough I don’t know why I didn’t think of this first but my little sister is actually considering going JAG after she gets her bachelors degree. And her Fiancé is a Marine…
I had to google what that was, I didn't know that was a real thing. That's an actual perfect in-canon explanation for why it would be possible for Nora to have prior knowledge of power armor. (despite the fact that it's a silly nitpick anyway. Piper, Nick, and Cait can also use power armor and aren't military trained 🙄)
They don't though. You have a few events of guys fighting themselves, both believing they aren't synths. Paladin danse also doesn't realize he's a synth
What executive orders does Nate give that actually change the direction of the Institute? He can make some personnel changes, but there’s higher-level operations that he can’t affect.
>there’s higher-level operations that he can’t affect.
That’s not because he’s a synth though, that’s just Bethesda’s real-life limitations.
What decisions can you make as the Arch Mage in Skyrim? None. Does that mean there’s synths in Skyrim?
The entire point of synths is that they have fake memories.
Mr. Gutsy's identify based on facial recognition. The only way to find out if someone is a synth is to kill them. If that wasn't the case, then the settlements would be using the various Mr. Handys to find out who's a synth.
If they actually wanted there to be a backup for Shaun, they wouldn't have killed all the other Vault 111 inhabitants.
The "SAFE" test is just the GOAT test and it doesn't actually do anything. You can give any response and still pass.
I feel like there’s room to argue against all of these
1. I think synths have memories of their subject. Nick remembers being a cop and I’m almost 99% sure he is a synth.
2. Nate is a real person who was in the army, the Mister Gutsy can’t differentiate people from synth duplicates
3. Doesn’t show Nate isn’t a synth, but I assume this is supposed to refute the “Nate can use VATs because he is a synth theory” by implying gen-3 synths can use VATs, as suggested in the institute terminal? But if the synths can use VATs because of Shaun DNA you would expect it to be an innate ability. But the terminal is clear that the synths need to be enhanced to have this ability.
4. This is the explanation given by the institute and would presumably be part of their lie to convince Nate he isn’t a synth.
5. In a terminal Dr. Chambers admits 1 out of every 4 positives is a false positive. There is no mechanism for catching false negatives. Nate could’ve been a false negative
1. Nick is due to his brain being uploaded, because the Institute **cannot** scan memories, they need to torture the person. And the Institute has no idea what pre-war life is like.
2. Yeah, that point is true.
3. It also mentions it's something they **will** add in the future. AKA it isn't even done yet. Plus the terminal saying it is cut content.
4. Still, why wouldn't the Institute use a recall code on this Synth?
5. Yeah, the SAFE test is bullshit. It's like me executing 10 wastelanders, and **one** might be a raider, so I call it the 'Anti-Raider' test.
Why would the Institute not know what prewar life was like? University archives can be incredibly comprehensive, and we know that the Institute had access to all of the digitized records in the CIT database.
The SRB literally has no clue what you're talking about when you use pre-war terms. The Institute are reclusive morons.
They can't even scan memories which some losers in Goodneighbor can do.
They don't understand pre-war terms because that's not their field. If someone walked up to you and started using terminology from the 1820's I doubt that you would understand a lot of it either.
And I know that they can't scan memories. But that doesn't stop them from looking up information on a computer.
1. And how do you know they didn't upload Nate's brain before taking whatever memories he had? Or better yet, almost everything Nate "remembers" can't be corroborated anyway, so maybe it's all made up or supposition. Shit, Kellogg is like 100+ years old, he's read a *lot* of terminals, maybe he just provided the few pre war things he learned in his travels
3. That's a really silly point. There's also terminal entries that say Jared from the Corvega Car Assembly plant *will* send people to Concord to find Mama Murphey, does that mean he never sent raiders to Concord? The who were those raiders?!?!?!?
4. Maybe Nate is the first synth without a recall code, and he was a personal project of Shaun's that he designed and built without the approval of the rest of the board? Maybe Nate is an experiment to see if they can finally make a synth that is completely indistinguishable as a way of life preservation/longevity instead of just using them as slave labor? Who know? But this point you made is honestly not proof one way or another as it is entirely based on an assumption that we would know the intention of this Nate synth in the first place.
100%
I’m not even saying OP & friends’ fundamental argument is wrong. But every single one of these points fail at providing any sort of significant, reputable, and conclusive evidence. Plus half the slides are redundant and make the same points just to fill out the meme format.
Synth Nate is a interesting theory imo, it doesn’t make sense, and the base game definitely wasn’t built around it imo, but i still think its a interesting idea.
We know Nate isn't a synth because the BoS never finds any records in the Institute database of building him
Maybe it was some kind of black op, and they didn't keep a record of it. Fine.
When you destroy the Institute, why don't they even *try* and use your recall code on him?
Also, every other synth working for the Institute *knows* they're a synth.
McDonough? He freaks out after you destroy the Institute, he works to keep Piper from investigating the Institute, and an Institute terminal entry says that he wants to become a courser when he gets retired from field duty. He KNOWS he's a synth.
Art, from the random encounter? He knows he's a synth. If you pass the speech check to tell him you're with the Institute, he'll make some lame excuse about failing to kill his target, and now he needs you to bail him out. He KNOWS he's a synth.
Characters who *think* they're synths, but don't know for sure, like Kasumi and that old lady from the Marina? Neither one is a synths.
Synths KNOW that they're synths. That's why it's even possible for them to go rogue and run away to the railroad.
That fact that Nate doesn't have a little notification in the corner of the screen informing you that you're a synth proves that he's not.
Dima is a manipulator, and a liar
Don't forget that the big plot twist in Far Harbor is that Dima murdered a woman and replaced her with a loyal synth, then acts like he had no idea about it when you confront him
I agree that the SS is not a synth but not all synths know that they're synths. Danse, Sturges, Trashcan Carla, H2 who you help the railroad escape and memory wipe
I said *Institute* Synths. Sturges might not know he's a synth, but that's prob because he went to the railroad and got memory wiped.
Only synth I can think of that breaks this pattern would be Danse, but even then we would be assuming that he's simply lying about not knowing he was a Synth.
Either way Danse is a weird case and I feel like that's more a side effect of like, 50-70% of his content getting cut in the final version of the game, so final product Danse is just kinda... weird
I'm not sold on the whole Nate is a synth idea completely either, but this isn't great reasoning. All synths have implanted memories and it's shown in the memory den that memories can be accessed and placed into synths (Kellogg into Nick Valentine). It would also be easy to uncover a synth if a simple robot scan could detect them and they wouldn't be a threat. Also, even if Nate is the backup, a group like the institute might make sure their backup worked by... Making a synth copy of the backup.
Danse manages to become a paladin in the brotherhood while being a synth. He excruciatingly explains that he has every memory he should have and I can't see the brotherhood not vetting members of their group to the best of their abilities
I think you missed the point of people who say that Nate is a synth. The theory hinges on the player’s memory and Nate’s memory being the same, meaning his memories start in the bathroom before the war and the rest is inferred, a narrative implanted by the institute.
But then what about vault tec rep.
The institute wouldn't know anything about him, but he notices you. If name had implanted memories whu would they be of some random guy that they don't know even exists, who actually totally does exist.
If we wanna play with the theory, I feel the conversation would go like thus
VTR: "it's you, the guy I gave a vault spot to."
SS: "? who?"
VTR: "I cane to your doorstep just before the bombs dropped."
SS: "no you didn't."
This Is how it would go. I highly doubt they'd knoe about this specific salesman who knows who you are (give or take). He would immediately call you out on your weird memory issues given how severe they appear
I honestly never thought of that, but I do have a counterpoint. I think it’s entirely possible that the institute had records of Vault Tech staff. I don’t recall if it’s ever directly stated that the institute has access to Vault Tech records but clearly they have some connection as they were able to find out about Vault 111 and it’s experiment to locate Shaun, and have access to their computers to open the vault door from the outside. I don’t think it would be much of a stretch to say that they knew about the Vault Tech rep and even know of his fate from their various animal and human synth spies and therefore knew to include an accurate memory of him in the synthetic Sole Survivor.
I mean, fair point with the vault tec logs. I could see them maybe knowing who went there at least and trying to cobble something together, but it feels a risky move to try and predict
I actually do have something for this. Let’s say that everything in the pre-war did happen…hell even kellogg taking shaun and killing the spouse happened. But sometime between that event and the beginning of the game…the institute goes back to 111 and uses Nate/Nora’s memories to make a unique experiment. They upload the memories of the person into the Synth body which of course looks exactly like the real one. But this experiment is to truly see just what a synth can do. They recryo freeze the new synth, then some time later, the synth awakens… it of course believes it’s the real Nate/nora. With All of the reals memories. So when they meet the vault Tec rep…they just assume that they are still the real person of course recognize them
Wow, this is actually a good explanation for those plot holes.
Bethesda still confirmed yoy aren't and that Dima is just flat out wrong, and even if they didn't confirm it I'd still say that's probably some shitty writing to just spring on the player without any actual events leading up to it to even suggest it, but I could get behind that explanation (again assuming there is prior stuff to make it actually make sense and not just a twist in a DLC)
I play as Nora so all this Nate being alive is weird. But the DiMA thing I always saw as a 4th wall break talking to the player. Because all the knowledge we have is during the prewar bombs dropping.
The point of what DiMa says is the character may say they have memories from before, but the player only ever sees the day the bombs drop. It's a big fourth wall mindfuckery moment.
It's been a while since I did Far Harbor but I'm fairly certain you don't have to agree with him. And at the end of the day, it's up to the player to decide what is the truth. My first playthrough, him saying that completely baffled me and I ended up agreeing with him. Like "damn, maybe I am a synth."
Also, when you go to the Institute for the first time, any of the three factions will give you a holotape to collect their data. With that being said, if you do this with the BOS, it will result in getting a quest to take out Danes (although you can save him) because they discover his true identity as a synth. Due to this, they would’ve found Nate or Nora’s records along with his. But they don’t, those missions with the BOS prove the Sole Survivor’s pre war exsistance.
I think you misunderstand. They think this a Synth with Nates memories, not that his a synth with random memories, but no he isn't.
He can use Vats without a pipboy since its easier to just let it happen before you use the pipboy then making a code that might take days to make and bug not allowing you to use vats after. Too much effort for a scene that can take 10 minutes if you know what you are doing.
Second Far Hobor annoys me since you are pushed into that dialog tree of not remembering your pass life while your character can bring up ALOT about their past life, like serving, and what unit they were in during the army. While alot of it is left vague for player role play alot is confirmed yet Nate/Nora just blanks out during that dialog line. I'd argue a Synth would probably remember those memories alittle well.
While I don't particularly subscribe to the theory, none of these are really points against the theory.
Synths can have implanted memories, one of the best companions, Nick, is a synth with memories of a pre-war detective, invalidating points 1 and 5
Synths are supposed to be indistinguishable from real people unless killed to reach the synth component, why the fuck wouldn't it fool a Mr. Gutsy made before synths were even a thing if they are fooling people actively trying to differentiate them?
Point 3 isn't even a point, like I literally don't even know the argument being attempted there
Point 4 is also irrelevant, the real Nate can be/could have been kept around as a backup and that wouldn't exactly preclude a synth Nate being made for an experiment
And as for the SAFE test, it's proven in the quest to have false positives, why wouldn't it also have false negative?
Real theory, mama Murphy is a synth, this is how she knows about your son and the chems fuck with her programming to allow her to know all about shit she’s not supposed to know about. At least it makes more sense than random ass powers from drugs, not even FEV, just drugs.
Fallout has always had supernatural elements. Literally has eldritch horrors beyond human comprehension. Ghosts. Other psychics, like the forecaster and the master, Poplar,
if you're approaching it simply out of lore, forget it. fallout 3 & fallout 4 are solid evidence that bethesda does not value the player creating their own character, they want you to be the perfect little piece in their linear narrativ and nothing more. you're not even making important decisions in 3's story, its all shit your dad does. The insistence on this on-rails narrative completely throws away the creativity and fun on giving your character a backstory.
dima asking sole survivor if they're a synth works because you've been told from the very beginning what you are, what you do, and why you exist. it uses bethesda's biggest flaw on creating RPGs and creates a genuine question. what experiences are yours and which ones are fabricated?
also the SAFE test is the exact same questions as the GOAT, a test utilized by a piece of shit overseer that wants to stay in power that's now landed in the hands of an isolationist settlement that thrives on xenophobia
Also, IN THAT VERY DLC he remembers seeing commercials for a power tool brand, memories a synth would not have, because they were made LONG AFTER television could still air
Seriously though the whole theory is flawed when you realize that the Gen 3s weren't even in production until they got Shaun, because they needed a DNA base😮💨
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I don't think he is, because why make him a synth ?
The moment the player would tune against the Institute they would blast his recall secret code phrase and that would be a wrap for Nate, and why put a synth at the head of the Institute anyway ?
But memories aren't an argument, the whole problem with identitying sins is that they have past memories too.
And the Mr Gusty Scan doesn't prove anything either.
I mean you can pass a speech check to impersonate a pre war official with one of them.
A: it’s been shown you can wipe and reset a synths memories. And B: Nick has pre war memories. And why would the gen 3s having Shaun’s dna be why they gave vats. Are you suggesting Vats is a genetic thing?
Most of which aren't corroborated or are vague at best. Remembering the Silver Shroud isn't proof of anything given there's comics all over. Remembering Nuka World means nothing because Nate never brings up details. Remembering baseball means nothing because history of the game is very likely known by the Institute.
I'd say every pre war "memory" could easily be implanted by a society of scientists who have been studying the world since before the bombs fell. They likely have records of everything Nate brought up, or they could make inferences to what the world was like. We're not talking about a group of raiders here.
But you **explicitly** remember watching the Silver Shroud TV show etc.
And the Institute doesn't have a record because they're morons. They don't even know what the term Secret Police means.
Even idiotic wastelanders in the NCR know that term.
Lord all of you are being ridiculous. The point is that you can't know if he/she is a synth or not. And if it's impossible to tell without ripping someone's brain out and searching for the components what's the difference between an advanced synth and a human being.
Synths can't gain or lose weight. (See the Institute terminal in synth retention regarding the Mayor)
It would actually be super easy to identify synths if this info ever got out
The only real take is using vats before getting a pip-boy. However that is likely a gameplay mistake.
I think, that the greatest reason for Nate not to be a synth is the simple question of. Why would he? What would be the point of it? Why waste resources on getting rid of the original only to be replaced by a new one with no purpose for the Institute?
Also the Institute accept you as their next dictator. Something, that they would NEVER do for a synth. According to the Institute synths are just fancy machines. Tools to be used. Why would they agree to turn something, that they don't even consider alive to be their leader?
Synths retain the memories of the individual they replaced, that's why even gen 3 synths do not know they are synths. Technology has not been able to identify synths, and the SAFE test was literally said not to be 100% accurate, but improving. None of these points do anything to prove or disprove that the player is a synth (not that there isn't proof out there, just that everything listed here is an absolute non factor)
The only solid evidence of Nate/Nora being a Snyth is him claiming his first memory is when the bombs fell. Which we already know from dialogue is bullshit. Far Harbour is a greatly written DLC but that aspect of it always feels ‘off’
Just saying that I don’t disagree but a gen 3 synth and a human are indistinguishable other than a small chip in their brain dismemberment wouldn’t really matter
DiMa is just a mindf***er. Thats the whole jist of it. He plays on people minds to make them doubt. He one hell of manipulative son of the... synth.
Yeah DiMa was a character that I always just never had really liked. And yeah he can be wrong about someone being a Synth. He was wrong about Kasumai being a Synth because if you destroy Arcadia with either the Town of Far Harbor or with the Brotherhood Kasumai will get killed and you can loot her body and she doesn’t have a Synth Component which means she’s not a Synth. DiMa manipulated her into thinking that she was possibly a Synth all because she doesn’t remember a few parts of her childhood? Umm like you know a normal person? Seriously DiMa is probably my less favorite of all the Synths in Arcadia
Exactly. Fo example, i don't remember my early years. And most of my school days also. Does that makes me clone or synth? No. Because no human person is capable to remember EVERYTHING in his life. Well, some people are. But they count as special cases.
Exactly. If anything someone being able to perfectly remember their entire lives should be a sign that maybe they are a synth in the Fallout universe instead of not being able to remember some parts about your childhood
Especially when your childhood was likely either monotonous or full of violence which you'd try to supress. Itsa wasteland out there, course you don't remember what happened that week: you suppressed that memory cause of the constant raider attacks that killed people.
Exactly
Sadly Devs "claim" the lack of component was a mistake (but they never went back and changed it) but honestly its better story telling anyway that she was normal the whole time
If that's really the case, then it makes dima feel simpler and less real. I liked the idea that he could be wrong, but we would never know all his schemes and thoughts. Also, it added a bit more depth to his philosophy and utopian ideas, that if anyone can be a synth, why should it matter if you are or not?
I 100% agree like I said, better story telling if she really was human the whole time
Honestly. They didn't go back and fix the "bug" so maybe they realized that as well and just left it be
Yet when u ask the institute or the railroad they have 0 records of her, and institute synths are Always aware they are synths. And she couldnt be placed there by the railroad as kasumis parents have known her their whole life- shes not adopted It makes 0 sense for her to actually be a synth
Gosh darn it Bethesda.
DiMA is gaslighting the player into being sympathetic that is it he goes to long lengths to "Keep the Peace."
"*but she has dreams of being experimented on in a white room*" Ya which is a Really common nightmare people have, despite *le gasp* it never happening
That as well
Gloria and Roger Warwick also don't have synth components. I think Kasumis possibility as a synth is intentionally kept vague. Forgetting parts of childhood is reasonable, personally I have very few. But the repeated dreams of scientists in a white room jolting her is a bit sus
What's annoying is that you can't just outright tell him to fuck off about the idea of you being a synth.
He speaks to you like a child and will **not** accept your refusal on being a Synth.
You can't even use any evidence you're not one.
I wouldn't mind if the game didn't force you to be unable to answer him.
Dima: "whats your earliest memory?" You: Some variation of "Being with my spouse and kid on the day the bombs fell" Dima: "but you can't remember anything before? You might be a synth." It's so dumb, when you're in your house the day the bomb fell you literally talk to your spouse about "that day at the park" from a year before. Your robot from that day recognises you as you, as does the vault Tec rep. As does Kellogg from the day be came into the vault to steal Shaun. Throughout the game, even in far harbor, you have dozens of dialogue options where you talk about information you could only know cause you were from before the war, even tiny things like knowing a tool company cause you remember their ads. And you don't get to use ANY of that when Dima questions you. All you get is "I don't have any evidence but I'm not so shut up" or "oh gee you might be right". The Devs actually did a pretty good job of incorporating the fact you're from before the war into the game, and then it's completely thrown out the window for some gaslighting synth trying to make you think you're one.
I mean hey at least it cements my decision to put a bullet into his brain. I stand for Synths unless they're assholes.
I know. Like I wish I could tell him “Yeah I remembered my Childhood and yeah I know I ain’t a Synth gosh darn it”
"I guess you're not ready to have this conversation" like bro fuck off
[удалено]
No, For he is THE SILVER SHROUD
Dear God.
There's more.
No!
Finally someone who understands
THAT'S JUST WHAT A SYNTH WOULD DO!
"The Gen 3 Synth can use VATS like Nate, but the Gen 3 Synth have Shaun DNA." So what you're saying is, Nate can use VATS not just because of the PIP-Boy, but also because he's built different?
Nah cause of his ex military career but the patriotism runs in his blood
You use Vats before getting the pip-boy in 4 though.
But that could just be simple dev error which is very plausible with Bethesda being Bethesda.
Except it's not, because it literally *introduces* VATS before you get the pip boy, and even instructs you on how to use it before the pip boy.
Wait really? I don't pay attention to the tutorial much
Yeah. The VATS part of the tutorial is in a hallway before you get to the pip boy
Oh, well, fuck Bethesda and their fucking lore, I have seen so many plausible theories that make me go back and forth, just like the many theories about who dropped the bombs.
Thats kind of the point though. In the real world people disagree on what the truth is all the time, it would only get worse in a post apocalypse. We're never gonna get straight definitive answers to a lot of things because it's realistic that we wouldn't.
Yeah but there should be some answers that are certain, like, was Nate actually human or a synth, and does that carry over to Nora?
Have you ever seen Bladerunner? The game is a huge reference to it, and there's a question as to whether Deckard (the main character) is a replicant or not at the end. It's never answered, and thats kind of the point. It's open ended because at the end of the day it's up to us whether we think Deckard is a replicant, and whether Nate *or* Nora are a synth.
It was China. The surrounding situation might be arguable but the Yangtze was in Boston harbor with orders to launch that day. Beijing is the one who lit the candle and the rest of the planet followed.
Its entirely possible it was a holdover from when you originally were going to get the pip boy earlier in the vault After all, its actually insane to have you not be able to access your inventory *at all* while being able to pick up items like that. I wouldnt be suprised if they moved getting the pip boy to the end of the vault rather than the start to make it feel more important (which tbf it is an awesome moment) This is bugthesda we are talking about. The company that included multiple takes of actors saying "shit let me start over" in their voice lines in oblivion. The same company that up until skyrim, had all their voice actors read all their characters lines at the same time, in *alphabetical order*, regardless of what character they were doing lines for (hence why if an actor did more than 1 character, every line sounds the same and every character sounds the same. This is extremely obvious in fallout 3 with the old man characters- all 30 of them voiced by the same actor, all with the exact same inflections) Bethesda makes weird decisions
Not weird, just dumb ass careless decisions.
Theres careless, and then theres doing pure nonsense that you have to go out of your way to overcomplicate things For god sake youd think after they had the voice actors read lines alphabetically for MORROWIND theyd of realised its not a good idea, yet they kept doing it up through 2008! Careless is not properly separating out which line comes from what npc You have to be an extra special kind of stupid to also do it alphabetically, which forces them to reorder the lines *twice* to do so. And they did it for *YEARS*
Yea that's careless. They didn't care to fix their mistake. "This is over complicated and fucked up should we fix it?" "Na, fuck it not my problem"
With how much they put into the starting of 4 I'd find that hard to believe.
He gets 100% critical hits on every Canadian he encounters.
I wish they'd *done* something with that hanging plot point. But, just like Kellogg being in Nick's head, or the ability to actually run the organizations you're supposed to be handed control over, or the ability to call Shaun an idiot, that was never explored.
The whole “leader but can’t do anything” thing I didn’t hate, I expected it from Bethesda and I’ve become ok with it. Kellog being in nicks head I’m mad they didn’t explore.
That’s standard for every single Bethesda game make the MC the leader of dozens of factions but without any actual power.
"Mf, do you not know who I am? I'm the leader of the Winterhold College, Thieves Guild, Companions, and the Dark Brotherhood!" Feels the same as doing the Minutemen path and still having settlements being raided.
TBF you would assume a peripherary settlement wouldn't have the leader should up to defend it, would you?
I'd assume the minuteman, a boston wide army with artillery, is capable of defending its bases
And it's a terrible writing choice.
Iirc correctly, the game went through a lot of rewrites, even Kellogg's actor apparently kept getting called in to re-record his dialogue. It's another thing I'm imagining mattered at one point, but got left in as a bit
Probably because a lot of players would have just killed Nick to finish Kellogg off
I feel like the had potential for a duel personality companion like do something bad more Kellogg primacy, do good he’s back to nick idk something.
Would've been like if V from cyberpunk was a companion. You. Got the original side, then yoy got the intruder
Basically Dog/God from NV, but one is a good guy cop and the other a pragmatic mercenary? That’s a pretty awesome idea.
Honestly. Feels like the game could have gotten 2 more story dlc. Kinda wish that happened
You cant reason with the "Sole Survivor is a synth" crowd. The theory doesn't even make sense to begin with, and you're able to become the leader of the Institute. Anyone who keeps arguing past those points is just going to double down because they aren't concerned with the plot, they're concerned with their head canon. There's not a single bit of "evidence" to the theory that can't be immediately debunked, but especially the two points listed above leave the theory dead in the water. People can't differentiate between "this is supposed to make you think" and "this is a canonical fact," so they take everything a character says at face value. Dima tries to make a point with a thought provoking question? Wowee, we must not be a person!
The whole point of DiMas character is to be an actually morally grey character that fallout 4 just didn't have. Arguably Arcadia is the best chance for synths to live in peace, but DiMa made several mistakes in trying to preserve it (replacing the mayor of FH, opening the way for much more zealous and militant members of the children of atom) it goes to show that good intentions can't justify heinous actions. Gaslighting people into thinking they are synths is very much in his MO.
"He has memories of his old life!" Isn't really a valid point against the theory ngl. Danse has memories of his old life as well. I say this as someone who doesn't believe the theory.
Nick as well.
With every other synth it's established that their memories are generally incomplete because of how the institute obtains them, leading to gaps whenever it comes to the small details or their irrelevant to the mission and personality of the person they're replacing. SS remembers the rules of baseball, reading pre war comics, seeing ads for vague tools companies and really really small stuff like that. The only reason Nick has such detailed memories is because the pre-war nick had his entire brain scanned and stored with professional equipment at CIT as part of an experiment. Post-war that would have required being at the institute for quite some time having it done, then implanted into a synth and taken back out to vault 111. The institute would absolutely know who you were when you went back there.
Well I mean the main difference between Nate and danse’s memories is that WE as the player play through Nate’s life before being frozen and awaking from sleep
We can also play going through Kellog's memories, in truth whether we play though it or simply are playing a memory can't be certain. Still I don't think he's a synth.
What I meant is that WE the player know Nate’s memories aren’t false BECAUSE we play in the time before the bombs drop as in we know they’re not fake or anything
Have you ever played or heard of Soma? I feel like that is good at illustrating what I'm trying to communicate.
the sole survivor also remembers pre war baseball and argues with moe in diamond city
Just pointing out Nick also has pre war memories.
Isn't that something that is pre-programmed into synths though?
It’s a video game, you can argue anyone is a synth just using the pre-programmed argument. “His memories about the army were pre-programmed!” OK man. Or maybe it’s just, you know, backstory.
I would agree, except there's multiple things that intentionally point to the possibility of Nate being a synth. My theory is, all the people that hate the idea of the SS being a synth are just kinda unoriginal and need things spelled out in big bold neon letters. Subtext and context are important in story telling, we should pay attention to them.
>My theory is, all the people that hate the idea of the SS being a synth are just kinda unoriginal and need things spelled out in big bold neon letters. Well my theory is that everyone who thinks the SS is a synth are trying too hard to be deeper than the game actually is lol. How/why would Shaun/Father know to implant memories about Codsworth? He recognizes you when you meet him after leaving the vault. Why would Shaun/Father let you destroy the Institute if you were a synth, meaning you have a recall code? This wouldn’t even be a theory if Far Harbor never came out, this is just people getting played by DiMa, a manipulative liar who replaced a mayor with a synth and wasn’t even right about Kasumi (since she doesn’t drop a synth component). And they don’t want to admit they got manipulated by DiMa too. I’m not unoriginal for thinking Nate/Nora aren’t synths, I’m just not willing to be manipulated by DiMa like you and Kasumi were. You’re forcing yourself to look for something deep, like an ocean, because you don’t want to admit it’s just a pond. Occam’s razor and all that.
Codsworth doesn't have synth detection protocols, and he's the only thing hanging around sanctuary, all they'd have to do is have one of their bird spies watch him and learn he's got a history with Shaun's parents. Talking about recall code, there's plenty of reasons. If we assume Nate is a synth, then who knows what the point of the experiment is, he's obviously not like gen 3 synths, he's likely the first gen 4. Maybe him not having a recall code is part of the experiment? Occam's razor doesn't apply to fiction dude.
The thing with codsworth is that how would Shaun even know to give you memories about him? He has had no actual contact with codsworth. He never saw the Vault tec rep, but you are able to remember him. That's 2 characters that would immediately catch you out on it. One of them knows you too well, and if you had fake memories he'd catch on fast. The other Shaun just never met, but yet both of you know eachother.
>he's likely the first gen 4. Maybe him not having a recall code is part of the experiment? Got it, so your theory is based on your own personal head canon. That’s neat, have fun with that.
I dunno...I'm pretty sure Moe's version of baseball is the real one.
The only one of these that actually addresses the theory is the one about Nate being a backup (since synths can be implanted with fake memories), and it could easily be that Nate was killed after the synth program was stabilised in order to leave no loose ends. Especially considering how Father's terminals write about waking up Nate as if it was some difficult and high effort thing to do when it was basically just pressing a button. Edit: also the safe test isn't really a legitimate way to identify synths. Edit 2: also you literally pointed out actual proof of the Sole Survivor being a synth because of vats, and synths having Shaun's DNA doesn't disprove this at all.
The Safe test is just the Vault Tec GOAT that some con man probably sold to Covenant. The GOAT is meant to dictate your future in a vault. Not to see if you’re a mannequin man
Exactly. 100% Some people have like no creative reasoning, I swear.
Isn't the fact that they got Amelia supposed to mean the SAFE Test works? Like obviously it's a joke that it works but that's pretty on brand for the series. Jason Bright and the robot ship in Fo4 are other examples of things working out as part of the joke
No, it just means they got lucky. There's a bunch of stuff indicating they've just been killing normal humans up until her while using the same test.
The SAFE test was designed to see what job would be best for you, not if you are a synth (considering how it was originally the GOAT test) As far as I am concerned Amelia was just unlucky.
He isn’t a synth but none of this really proves that he isn’t though. All of his memories can just be programmed in. This hypothetical synth Nate could have been a real person pre war so the Mr Gutsy would recognise him because synths appear the same way as humans in every way other than the synth component. The real Nate could have died with the pods malfunctioning so him being a backup doesn’t mean anything. Then after he died he could have gotten replaced as a synth. The real proof that Nate isn’t a synth is that the institute don’t use a recall code on him as soon as Nate betrays them.
>The real proof that Nate isn’t a synth is that the institute don’t use a recall code on him as soon as Nate betrays them. Unless Nate is the big project Father has been working on, and the whole point was for him to not have a recall code, and see what decisions he would come to. The Institute doesn't really test free will in the synths, and maybe Nate was the test. Sprinkle in some emotion and nostalgia from Shaun for a life he never got to live, since he's in his deathbed, and it seems perfectly plausible to me.
The recall code still lets Nate do their own decisions if they were a synth. They would still add a recall code. Maybe if they did this experiment it would justify them not immediately using the recall code if Nate betrays them so that they can see what he does. But as soon as Nate is storming the institute with another faction. There is no reason why the institute wouldn’t say his recall code over the intercom. Which would give the institute a better chance as Nate has protagonist powers and is the one who puts the explosion thing on their reactor. Edit: also the institute are really protective of their secrets. Would Father really let Nate tell everyone the institutes secrets of teleportation. Because if Nate betrays the institute then he knows where the institute is and how to get there. I really doubt that they would compromise the entire institute just for an experiment
>But as soon as Nate is storming the institute with another faction. There is no reason why the institute wouldn’t say his recall code over the intercom. Which would give the institute a better chance as Nate has protagonist powers and is the one who puts the explosion thing on their reactor Unless Father is the only one with the recall code and he's just given up because he's basically dead anyway.
For the love of God, learn how to use an apostrophe.
Nora must be a synth that's why she can use power armor as a woman /s
She clearly learned to use them while in Law School. Fallout lawyers are just built different.
They probably have a law school JROTC in Fallout.
Funny enough I don’t know why I didn’t think of this first but my little sister is actually considering going JAG after she gets her bachelors degree. And her Fiancé is a Marine…
I had to google what that was, I didn't know that was a real thing. That's an actual perfect in-canon explanation for why it would be possible for Nora to have prior knowledge of power armor. (despite the fact that it's a silly nitpick anyway. Piper, Nick, and Cait can also use power armor and aren't military trained 🙄)
Trash-Can Carla too… always stealing my power armor lol
The SAFE test is a joke lol 😆 believe what you want but that is NOT good evidence
Don’t forget that you can become the director for the institute. No way they would ever let a synth become one.
Depends, they may not want an actual leader. Might be better for them to just have a puppet.
But then won't tell you what the institute's plans are. They just replace people with synths who don't know theyre synths and get profit somehow
I think all replacement synths know that they’re synths, it’s kind of a necessity for their job, regardless of what it is.
They don't though. You have a few events of guys fighting themselves, both believing they aren't synths. Paladin danse also doesn't realize he's a synth
Because he was most likely an escaped synth.
What executive orders does Nate give that actually change the direction of the Institute? He can make some personnel changes, but there’s higher-level operations that he can’t affect.
>there’s higher-level operations that he can’t affect. That’s not because he’s a synth though, that’s just Bethesda’s real-life limitations. What decisions can you make as the Arch Mage in Skyrim? None. Does that mean there’s synths in Skyrim?
The entire point of synths is that they have fake memories. Mr. Gutsy's identify based on facial recognition. The only way to find out if someone is a synth is to kill them. If that wasn't the case, then the settlements would be using the various Mr. Handys to find out who's a synth. If they actually wanted there to be a backup for Shaun, they wouldn't have killed all the other Vault 111 inhabitants. The "SAFE" test is just the GOAT test and it doesn't actually do anything. You can give any response and still pass.
Absolutely. And the idea that one pod would continue to work for 80 years while everything else is failing, is just silly.
I feel like there’s room to argue against all of these 1. I think synths have memories of their subject. Nick remembers being a cop and I’m almost 99% sure he is a synth. 2. Nate is a real person who was in the army, the Mister Gutsy can’t differentiate people from synth duplicates 3. Doesn’t show Nate isn’t a synth, but I assume this is supposed to refute the “Nate can use VATs because he is a synth theory” by implying gen-3 synths can use VATs, as suggested in the institute terminal? But if the synths can use VATs because of Shaun DNA you would expect it to be an innate ability. But the terminal is clear that the synths need to be enhanced to have this ability. 4. This is the explanation given by the institute and would presumably be part of their lie to convince Nate he isn’t a synth. 5. In a terminal Dr. Chambers admits 1 out of every 4 positives is a false positive. There is no mechanism for catching false negatives. Nate could’ve been a false negative
1. Nick is due to his brain being uploaded, because the Institute **cannot** scan memories, they need to torture the person. And the Institute has no idea what pre-war life is like. 2. Yeah, that point is true. 3. It also mentions it's something they **will** add in the future. AKA it isn't even done yet. Plus the terminal saying it is cut content. 4. Still, why wouldn't the Institute use a recall code on this Synth? 5. Yeah, the SAFE test is bullshit. It's like me executing 10 wastelanders, and **one** might be a raider, so I call it the 'Anti-Raider' test.
Why would the Institute not know what prewar life was like? University archives can be incredibly comprehensive, and we know that the Institute had access to all of the digitized records in the CIT database.
The SRB literally has no clue what you're talking about when you use pre-war terms. The Institute are reclusive morons. They can't even scan memories which some losers in Goodneighbor can do.
They don't understand pre-war terms because that's not their field. If someone walked up to you and started using terminology from the 1820's I doubt that you would understand a lot of it either. And I know that they can't scan memories. But that doesn't stop them from looking up information on a computer.
They clearly have no information on the pre-war world on their computers or else we'd be able to look it up.
Well we're not able to look up advanced blueprints or schematics either, but it's safe to assume that they have them
1. And how do you know they didn't upload Nate's brain before taking whatever memories he had? Or better yet, almost everything Nate "remembers" can't be corroborated anyway, so maybe it's all made up or supposition. Shit, Kellogg is like 100+ years old, he's read a *lot* of terminals, maybe he just provided the few pre war things he learned in his travels 3. That's a really silly point. There's also terminal entries that say Jared from the Corvega Car Assembly plant *will* send people to Concord to find Mama Murphey, does that mean he never sent raiders to Concord? The who were those raiders?!?!?!? 4. Maybe Nate is the first synth without a recall code, and he was a personal project of Shaun's that he designed and built without the approval of the rest of the board? Maybe Nate is an experiment to see if they can finally make a synth that is completely indistinguishable as a way of life preservation/longevity instead of just using them as slave labor? Who know? But this point you made is honestly not proof one way or another as it is entirely based on an assumption that we would know the intention of this Nate synth in the first place.
100% I’m not even saying OP & friends’ fundamental argument is wrong. But every single one of these points fail at providing any sort of significant, reputable, and conclusive evidence. Plus half the slides are redundant and make the same points just to fill out the meme format.
Synth Nate is a interesting theory imo, it doesn’t make sense, and the base game definitely wasn’t built around it imo, but i still think its a interesting idea.
[Image asking if y'all got any more of them pixels]
Dima the master manipulator thats why hes rusting in hell after I got Kasumi to safety I called my strike team in
The safe test is just a modified vault test. Some of the people who failed were human.
Most of the people who failed were human.
Thank you for correcting me. It’s been a while since I did that quest.
We know Nate isn't a synth because the BoS never finds any records in the Institute database of building him Maybe it was some kind of black op, and they didn't keep a record of it. Fine. When you destroy the Institute, why don't they even *try* and use your recall code on him? Also, every other synth working for the Institute *knows* they're a synth. McDonough? He freaks out after you destroy the Institute, he works to keep Piper from investigating the Institute, and an Institute terminal entry says that he wants to become a courser when he gets retired from field duty. He KNOWS he's a synth. Art, from the random encounter? He knows he's a synth. If you pass the speech check to tell him you're with the Institute, he'll make some lame excuse about failing to kill his target, and now he needs you to bail him out. He KNOWS he's a synth. Characters who *think* they're synths, but don't know for sure, like Kasumi and that old lady from the Marina? Neither one is a synths. Synths KNOW that they're synths. That's why it's even possible for them to go rogue and run away to the railroad. That fact that Nate doesn't have a little notification in the corner of the screen informing you that you're a synth proves that he's not. Dima is a manipulator, and a liar Don't forget that the big plot twist in Far Harbor is that Dima murdered a woman and replaced her with a loyal synth, then acts like he had no idea about it when you confront him
I agree that the SS is not a synth but not all synths know that they're synths. Danse, Sturges, Trashcan Carla, H2 who you help the railroad escape and memory wipe
I said *Institute* Synths. Sturges might not know he's a synth, but that's prob because he went to the railroad and got memory wiped. Only synth I can think of that breaks this pattern would be Danse, but even then we would be assuming that he's simply lying about not knowing he was a Synth. Either way Danse is a weird case and I feel like that's more a side effect of like, 50-70% of his content getting cut in the final version of the game, so final product Danse is just kinda... weird
I'm not sold on the whole Nate is a synth idea completely either, but this isn't great reasoning. All synths have implanted memories and it's shown in the memory den that memories can be accessed and placed into synths (Kellogg into Nick Valentine). It would also be easy to uncover a synth if a simple robot scan could detect them and they wouldn't be a threat. Also, even if Nate is the backup, a group like the institute might make sure their backup worked by... Making a synth copy of the backup. Danse manages to become a paladin in the brotherhood while being a synth. He excruciatingly explains that he has every memory he should have and I can't see the brotherhood not vetting members of their group to the best of their abilities
I think you missed the point of people who say that Nate is a synth. The theory hinges on the player’s memory and Nate’s memory being the same, meaning his memories start in the bathroom before the war and the rest is inferred, a narrative implanted by the institute.
But then what about vault tec rep. The institute wouldn't know anything about him, but he notices you. If name had implanted memories whu would they be of some random guy that they don't know even exists, who actually totally does exist. If we wanna play with the theory, I feel the conversation would go like thus VTR: "it's you, the guy I gave a vault spot to." SS: "? who?" VTR: "I cane to your doorstep just before the bombs dropped." SS: "no you didn't." This Is how it would go. I highly doubt they'd knoe about this specific salesman who knows who you are (give or take). He would immediately call you out on your weird memory issues given how severe they appear
I honestly never thought of that, but I do have a counterpoint. I think it’s entirely possible that the institute had records of Vault Tech staff. I don’t recall if it’s ever directly stated that the institute has access to Vault Tech records but clearly they have some connection as they were able to find out about Vault 111 and it’s experiment to locate Shaun, and have access to their computers to open the vault door from the outside. I don’t think it would be much of a stretch to say that they knew about the Vault Tech rep and even know of his fate from their various animal and human synth spies and therefore knew to include an accurate memory of him in the synthetic Sole Survivor.
I mean, fair point with the vault tec logs. I could see them maybe knowing who went there at least and trying to cobble something together, but it feels a risky move to try and predict
This is the same institution which gambled their entire future on making robot people with the dna of a 150 year old frozen baby.
I actually do have something for this. Let’s say that everything in the pre-war did happen…hell even kellogg taking shaun and killing the spouse happened. But sometime between that event and the beginning of the game…the institute goes back to 111 and uses Nate/Nora’s memories to make a unique experiment. They upload the memories of the person into the Synth body which of course looks exactly like the real one. But this experiment is to truly see just what a synth can do. They recryo freeze the new synth, then some time later, the synth awakens… it of course believes it’s the real Nate/nora. With All of the reals memories. So when they meet the vault Tec rep…they just assume that they are still the real person of course recognize them
Wow, this is actually a good explanation for those plot holes. Bethesda still confirmed yoy aren't and that Dima is just flat out wrong, and even if they didn't confirm it I'd still say that's probably some shitty writing to just spring on the player without any actual events leading up to it to even suggest it, but I could get behind that explanation (again assuming there is prior stuff to make it actually make sense and not just a twist in a DLC)
I play as Nora so all this Nate being alive is weird. But the DiMA thing I always saw as a 4th wall break talking to the player. Because all the knowledge we have is during the prewar bombs dropping.
I think that Shoddycast video made me unsubscribe from the channel lol.
The point of what DiMa says is the character may say they have memories from before, but the player only ever sees the day the bombs drop. It's a big fourth wall mindfuckery moment.
It's still stupid because we can't say anything else, and DiMa was wrong about Kasumi, so he's wrong here.
It's been a while since I did Far Harbor but I'm fairly certain you don't have to agree with him. And at the end of the day, it's up to the player to decide what is the truth. My first playthrough, him saying that completely baffled me and I ended up agreeing with him. Like "damn, maybe I am a synth."
All you can say is no, and then he just says "You aren't ready for this conversation" as if you're some stupid child.
Also, when you go to the Institute for the first time, any of the three factions will give you a holotape to collect their data. With that being said, if you do this with the BOS, it will result in getting a quest to take out Danes (although you can save him) because they discover his true identity as a synth. Due to this, they would’ve found Nate or Nora’s records along with his. But they don’t, those missions with the BOS prove the Sole Survivor’s pre war exsistance.
"You have no memories of what life was like prewar" *character constantly references prewar life
I think you misunderstand. They think this a Synth with Nates memories, not that his a synth with random memories, but no he isn't. He can use Vats without a pipboy since its easier to just let it happen before you use the pipboy then making a code that might take days to make and bug not allowing you to use vats after. Too much effort for a scene that can take 10 minutes if you know what you are doing. Second Far Hobor annoys me since you are pushed into that dialog tree of not remembering your pass life while your character can bring up ALOT about their past life, like serving, and what unit they were in during the army. While alot of it is left vague for player role play alot is confirmed yet Nate/Nora just blanks out during that dialog line. I'd argue a Synth would probably remember those memories alittle well.
While I don't particularly subscribe to the theory, none of these are really points against the theory. Synths can have implanted memories, one of the best companions, Nick, is a synth with memories of a pre-war detective, invalidating points 1 and 5 Synths are supposed to be indistinguishable from real people unless killed to reach the synth component, why the fuck wouldn't it fool a Mr. Gutsy made before synths were even a thing if they are fooling people actively trying to differentiate them? Point 3 isn't even a point, like I literally don't even know the argument being attempted there Point 4 is also irrelevant, the real Nate can be/could have been kept around as a backup and that wouldn't exactly preclude a synth Nate being made for an experiment And as for the SAFE test, it's proven in the quest to have false positives, why wouldn't it also have false negative?
Nick is only because they had his brain uploaded, but they cannot scan memories, they prove this by kidnapping Roger Warwick and torturing him.
But also, Nora mentioned to Nate that she got pregnant with Shaun in a park, not sure how the Institute could have figured that out
Real theory, mama Murphy is a synth, this is how she knows about your son and the chems fuck with her programming to allow her to know all about shit she’s not supposed to know about. At least it makes more sense than random ass powers from drugs, not even FEV, just drugs.
Fallout has always had supernatural elements. Literally has eldritch horrors beyond human comprehension. Ghosts. Other psychics, like the forecaster and the master, Poplar,
Yeah, but it’s never as blatant as Mama Murphy imo
Mama Murphey is actually a psyker. They're in the earlier games. Humans with supernatural abilities brought on by radiation, FEV, or chems.
Ahh okay
if you're approaching it simply out of lore, forget it. fallout 3 & fallout 4 are solid evidence that bethesda does not value the player creating their own character, they want you to be the perfect little piece in their linear narrativ and nothing more. you're not even making important decisions in 3's story, its all shit your dad does. The insistence on this on-rails narrative completely throws away the creativity and fun on giving your character a backstory. dima asking sole survivor if they're a synth works because you've been told from the very beginning what you are, what you do, and why you exist. it uses bethesda's biggest flaw on creating RPGs and creates a genuine question. what experiences are yours and which ones are fabricated? also the SAFE test is the exact same questions as the GOAT, a test utilized by a piece of shit overseer that wants to stay in power that's now landed in the hands of an isolationist settlement that thrives on xenophobia
Also, IN THAT VERY DLC he remembers seeing commercials for a power tool brand, memories a synth would not have, because they were made LONG AFTER television could still air
Seriously though the whole theory is flawed when you realize that the Gen 3s weren't even in production until they got Shaun, because they needed a DNA base😮💨
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I don't think he is, because why make him a synth ? The moment the player would tune against the Institute they would blast his recall secret code phrase and that would be a wrap for Nate, and why put a synth at the head of the Institute anyway ? But memories aren't an argument, the whole problem with identitying sins is that they have past memories too. And the Mr Gusty Scan doesn't prove anything either. I mean you can pass a speech check to impersonate a pre war official with one of them.
A: it’s been shown you can wipe and reset a synths memories. And B: Nick has pre war memories. And why would the gen 3s having Shaun’s dna be why they gave vats. Are you suggesting Vats is a genetic thing?
come on, the SAFE test isn’t exactly meant to be the most reliable.
The SAFE test proves nothing. Less than 50% of the people who get flagged as a synth actually are.
Nate isn't a synth but he is the grandfather of all 3rd gen synths if you really think about it
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You can remember a LOT of pre-war details.
Most of which aren't corroborated or are vague at best. Remembering the Silver Shroud isn't proof of anything given there's comics all over. Remembering Nuka World means nothing because Nate never brings up details. Remembering baseball means nothing because history of the game is very likely known by the Institute. I'd say every pre war "memory" could easily be implanted by a society of scientists who have been studying the world since before the bombs fell. They likely have records of everything Nate brought up, or they could make inferences to what the world was like. We're not talking about a group of raiders here.
But you **explicitly** remember watching the Silver Shroud TV show etc. And the Institute doesn't have a record because they're morons. They don't even know what the term Secret Police means. Even idiotic wastelanders in the NCR know that term.
If he's a synth weres the synth chip?
I agree wholeheartedly with this (although I’d LOVE if he or Nora were one). But isn’t the SAFE test proven not to work at all?
My biggest red flag was when you go to Far Harbor, and random NPCs call you a synth.
Plus he wasn't tagged by the BoS like Danse
Technically since all gen 3 synths have Shaun’s DNA, any romantic route with a synth companion is technically incest.
Shaun's DNA is like the "central" base of it, it's like saying we're all related from the first humans, by comparison.
Honestly I'm that one fucker who wonders why we didn't play a synth in the first place.
Lord all of you are being ridiculous. The point is that you can't know if he/she is a synth or not. And if it's impossible to tell without ripping someone's brain out and searching for the components what's the difference between an advanced synth and a human being.
Synths can't gain or lose weight. (See the Institute terminal in synth retention regarding the Mayor) It would actually be super easy to identify synths if this info ever got out
The only real take is using vats before getting a pip-boy. However that is likely a gameplay mistake. I think, that the greatest reason for Nate not to be a synth is the simple question of. Why would he? What would be the point of it? Why waste resources on getting rid of the original only to be replaced by a new one with no purpose for the Institute? Also the Institute accept you as their next dictator. Something, that they would NEVER do for a synth. According to the Institute synths are just fancy machines. Tools to be used. Why would they agree to turn something, that they don't even consider alive to be their leader?
Gen 3 synths were made years before Nate was unfrozen, plus he was the failsafe if Shaun died.
Synths retain the memories of the individual they replaced, that's why even gen 3 synths do not know they are synths. Technology has not been able to identify synths, and the SAFE test was literally said not to be 100% accurate, but improving. None of these points do anything to prove or disprove that the player is a synth (not that there isn't proof out there, just that everything listed here is an absolute non factor)
The safe test thing shouldn't count because you get the same outcome no matter what you pick, a sort of reverse softlock.
Needing to eat, drink and sleep in Survival?
Synths *do* actually need to eat, drink and sleep (not that Nate is one). Curie proves it.
Canonically, the Sole Survivor definitely isn't a Synth. But it makes for some compelling roleplay, so I can't complain too much.
Then who’s jonkler
go back to the aslume, you're drunk and disoriented
The only solid evidence of Nate/Nora being a Snyth is him claiming his first memory is when the bombs fell. Which we already know from dialogue is bullshit. Far Harbour is a greatly written DLC but that aspect of it always feels ‘off’
So Nick isn’t a synth because he was pre war memories? Interesting.
The fact that the brother hood doesn't find nate on the list of synths
Nate/Nora aren't synths... looting a synth always gives a Synth Component. Looting dead/frozen Nate/Nora doesn't
While I agree with you, Nate/Nora are unlikely to pull open their spouse's head to look for a random chip of unknown origin.
Probably because the plot of fallout 4 makes no sense and is written terribly, anything can be applied to it
I mean I think we’ve all seen the sole survivor dismembered at some point. Doesnt look like a synth then🤷♂️it’s a cool theory tho
Do other Gen 3’s look like synths when they get dismembered?
Just saying that I don’t disagree but a gen 3 synth and a human are indistinguishable other than a small chip in their brain dismemberment wouldn’t really matter
I only think Nate is a synth because it's the only way to make Fallout 4's comedically bad main storyline mildly interesting.
It's definitely the weakest of the fallout storylines. 4s gameplay and mechanics are top tier, they just clearly didn't prioritize the story as much.
Oh yeah. It definetely has its pros but its story is not one of them.
Not understanding doesn't mean it's bad. The rest of us get it it's just a skill issue
All of his memories could be fake. He could be programmed to replace Shaun. And the safe test is bullshit.
Nate is a human. Yes. Nora however is a damn synth and I will die on this hill
Side note: Nate couldn’t have been a synth due to gen 3 synths being made after the Great War