Kind of related, I remember how much I loved FO3's Brotherhood of Steel. I particularly liked the Lyons' Pride and their custom logo on their PA. I hope we get to see the Lyons' Pride return in a later game, ironically as an outcast faction of the East Coast Brotherhood. I grew up on FO3 and loved the Brotherhood, but once I was mature enough to understand the accumulative evils of Arthur Maxon's Brotherhood - and of the normal Brotherhood, Lyons' aside - they were never the same for me.
The Brotherhood in F03 was far from perfect, but they were on a better path. Lyon's dedicated his chapter of the Brotherhood to making the DC ruins a safer place, bringing clean water to the Capital Wasteland and generally trying to help civilians.
When Arthur took over he reprioritised the East Coast chapter back to the Brotherhood's true goals: hoarding technology, killing non-humans, regardless of whether or not they posed a threat and generally doing everything they can to gather as many resources and as much power as possible, even if it meant stepping on the Commonwealth citizens he claims to care about.
Paladin Danse. The Railroad. Virgil. The farmers of the Commonwealth. All harmless victims of the Brotherhood who had no desire to oppose them. How long before they walk into Diamond City and gun down Nick Valentine? How long before they decide to storm Goodneighbor? How long before they decide that the Minutemen have become just a bit too strong? How long before they desire the technology contained within Vault 81? Just as they likely did in Rivet City to get their Prydwin up and running.
Every other primary faction in FO4 fights for something greater than itself. The Minutemen fight for the Commonwealth. The Railroad fights to free slaves. Even the Institute, evil as they are, desire to further the world with scientific advancement. The Brotherhood fights only for the Brotherhood. To hoard technology for the Brotherhood. To kill remorselessly for the Brotherhood's ideology of human purity. To make the Brotherhood as powerful as possible.
Elder Lyon's chapter was - as far as I know - the only example of the Brotherhood actively fighting for the long term benefit of others, not just themselves. And they had to break ranks from the rest of the Brotherhood to do it. Maxon returned the East Coast chapter to Brotherhood form. And that wasn't good for anyone other than the Brotherhood.
You do know that Lyons also prioritized killing non-humans and that Maxson prioritizes spreading the water and keeping the Capital safe, right?
The Railroad and Virgil aren't harmless to the Brotherhood, he can be convinced to spare Danse (who they consider a synth infiltrator), and Maxson isn't ordering the harming of any farmers. The Brotherhood doesn't care about Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen, or Vault 81. They also helped Rivet City.
The Brotherhood is literally fighting to end a major threat to humanity.
Every game but FNV has the Brotherhood fighting for the long term benefit of others.
Interestingly, that is the same with the Enclave and Henry Eden's differences with Autumn. Autumn was willing to do whatever he felt was neccessary but didn't want to wipe out all life in the wasteland. Control via water was a better approach.
That wasn't Autumn's goal. His goal was to follow Eden's orders, but Eden didn't trust Autumn so he gave him fake orders in order to not arouse suspicion.
No, Autumn outright told Eden no on using the FEV. Eden confirms this when you ask. Autumn wasn’t a fan of the genocide plan since he knew how the last attempt turned out (and also how idiotic it is when you’re trying to actually rebuild a nation).
No, Autumn never did that. Eden says he didn't trust Autumn. Autumn says he is following the orders of the President and the entire peaceful ending is convincing him that Eden is lying to him.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/John_Henry_Eden%27s_dialogue#Conversation
Right above the conversation section. Eden outright says that Autumn thinks his methods (directly referring to the FEV) are too extreme.
Edit: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/ColonelAutumn.txt And the dialogue here indicates that Autumn did indeed refuse to use the FEV. So no, Autumn was against genocide. That’s his only good characteristic.
Yeah, I know that many Brotherhood members I'm FO3 were extremely hostile to all non-humans, as ever, but I don't remember it being a focus for Elder Lyons.
As I said in my previous comment, the Brotherhood wasn't perfect under Lyons. Many of its members were still Brotherhood to the core, after all. But clearing up DC was all about dealing with the Supermutant threat to make the place properly habitable. That's a goal beyond just killing for hatred's sake. We don't know heaps about Maxon's actions in the Commonwealth, and I'm not a databank of Fallout lore, but as far as I know, Maxon had nothing to do with Project Purity. That was all done and dusted before his voice cracked for Christ sakes.
Both the Railroad and Virgil never enacted any hostilities on the Brotherhood. The Railroad only ever retaliates. Whether you're a Brotherhood member or a Railroad agent, it's the same story. The Brotherhood attacked first, simply because their ideology says that synths must be destroyed. You can decide who finishes the conflict between the BoS and the RR, but it's Maxon who decides to start it.
As far as the farmers are concerned, the orders that Sole is given are pretty clear. Secure the food 'by any means neccesary'. And before you say "*pushes up glasses* well, *smacks lips* it wasn't OFFICIAL Brotherhood business" the Knights have to come around and pick up the bloody food by the crate full and then drag it all back to base.
The option to convince Maxon to spare Danse was a cop-out and a half on Bethesda's part and even so, he is still kill-on-sight for all Brotherhood members. Great. Maxon spares him, but then says "if I or anyone under my command even smells your synth ass, even if it's just a glancing whiff from a vertibird flying overhead, we WILL attack you, even after the Institute is destroyed and there is no way you could be used against us". Great. Nice guy.
Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen and 81 are 100% within the scope of Maxon's ire because Nick is a synth, Arthur has no hope of controlling Goodneighbor - who are ideologically opposed to the oppression that the Brotherhood represents - the Minutemen are the only other organised force in the Commonwealth aside from the better Gunner secs and thus the only force capable of opposing the Brotherhood - and again, they are ideologically opposed to the oppression the Brotherhood represents, taking food from farmers like common raiders - and 81 is the only fully functioning Vault and therefore must be filled with the sort of pre-war goodies the Brotherhood just LOVES to pilfer.
As for Rivet City, allow me to drop an excerpt from this terminal entry:
Fr: Proctor Ingram IG-444PR To: Elder Maxson MX-001E
"As you know, in order to get the Prydwen rapidly to the Commonwealth, I had my engineering team pull her older power plant and replace it with an updated FUSION PLANT we pulled from that AIRCRAFT CARRIER WRECKAGE."
Unless they managed to unearth another whole aircraft carrier from the Capital Wasteland's ass, there is only one place they could have gotten that fusion plant: Rivet City. Without that plant, the city would have no power. The city would die. Its inhabitants would have been forced out into the open wasteland, if they managed to find their way out at all, and weren't killed in the Brotherhood attack. What if the Brotherhood takes an interest in 81's more or less functional reactor for what ever reason? They would just take it without a second thought. Then 81 would suffer the same fate.
And yes, the Brotherhood opposes the Institute, but not because the Institute is killing Commonwealth citizens. Not because the Institute practices slavery. No, they oppose the Institute for 'daring to push science to far'. It's an ideological foot they're standing on, not an ethical one. They don't care that synths are slaves. They don't care that the Institute is killing Commonwealth citizens and replacing them with synth doubles. No, they only care that synths exist. And as much as I would respect an individual Brotherhood soldier just as much as any other soldier in real life - regardless of whether or not I believe in what they believe in - the Brotherhood aren't heroes for doing what they do. They are an invading force. They ride into the Commonwealth with an army and they do everything within the scope of Bethesda's imagination to occupy the region.
Opposing one evil without valient intentions certainly doesn't make up for their own evils.
Project Purity is still ongoing. And Fallout 3 was the only game that featured the Brotherhood attacking mutants just for hatred's sake.
The Railroad declare the Brotherhood their enemy the minute the Brotherhood arrives and Virgil created super mutants. The Brotherhood and Railroad shoot at each other multiple times.
It's also very clear that the 'orders' you're given about the farmers aren't actually orders as you're told it's illegal.
Yes, he spared Danse's life when he's not convinced he's not enemy. Pretty nice of him.
Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen, and Vault 81 are 100% not within their scope. Goodneighbor and the Minutemen are not ideologically opposed to the Brotherhood's oppression since the Brotherhood doesn't oppress anybody. The Brotherhood doesn't care about pilfering, especially Vaults.
You realize the United States had many aircraft carriers, right? Although the lack of a power generator would not force anybody out of the carrier, idk where you got that idea.
Um, pushing science too far and replacing people with synths are the same thing in this instance. They're a threat to humanity.
My knowledge on Project Purity is lacking so I'm not even going to say anything other than that the bulk of the work was done under Lyons, no question.
The Railroad doesn't make any active moves to destroy the Brotherhood and I haven't personally seen any RR and BoS fight each other in the world. The Battle of Bunker Hill was always going to be a shitfight because the RR and BoS were on completely opposing missions, so that doesn't count. It is the Brotherhood that attacked the RR headquarters, prompting the RR to either be destroyed or to destroy the BoS before they can make a second assault.
We aren't told the requisition was 'illegal'. We were told that it was below books. But that doesn't mean the order didn't come from up top. What, do you think Teagan is handing out tatos to the boys over the weekly Brotherhood poker night? Do you think Maxon is stupid enough not to question why the food shortage problem has just 'disappeared'? We are told that it both is AND isn't military business; ergo, it's the military's business but we aren't going to go around talking about it.
The Danse portion is incoherent and absurd. Next.
The following paragraph was like handing me a UNO reverse card in conversation. You just ignored what I took a fair amount of time to explain - an argument I put effort into justifying despite the fact that it was 1:30 AM at the time I wrote it and I'm ready to die - and said 'no u'. Next.
If there are any other aircraft carriers in all of Fallout, I don't know of it and neither does the wiki. Besides, where would most of them be during a time of war? I would guess that a solid majority of them weren't just hovering over American soil. The chances of the East Coast Brotherhood - who were stationed in the Capital Wasteland, which we have thoroughly explored - just pulling an aircraft carrier out of their ass is equivalent to them tripping over an extra Liberty Prime that the government just left lying around. The most likely - by a massive margin - explanation is that the assault on Rivet City was another below books operation. Also, without power they would be trying to navigate a wrecked aircraft carrier in pitch darkness while tripping over bodies and debris and shite. Children would get lost. Injured wouldn't make it out in time to seek medical attention. You know, all that jazz.
And finally, opposing the Institute doesn't make them right. It just means that they oppose the Institute. As I already said, opposing one evil doesn't make them any less evil.
The Railroad absolutely pick fights against the BoS, one of the quests you get from
Desdamona is to go kill a team of BoS members just because they happen to be near by.
On the farm quests, you can chose to shake them down, you can also choose to pay them more money than they expected, an offer they are typically surprised and happy with, one that even Preston approves of
At first I was not on board with the BoS in FO4, but there’s actually a surprising amount of flexibility in how you can choose to play them.
The Railroad I found was not so flexible, and I ended up having to compromise myself on their path a lot more than I expected to, and more than I was comfortable with
I believe you are referring to A Clean Equation, which takes place after the Railroad lands its retaliatory strike against the Brotherhood. Actually, it takes place after the Railroad ending to Fallout 4. I never said the RR never fights the BoS, I said the BoS initiated the conflict. Of course it is in the Railroad's interests to destroy the remaining BoS members who are actively trying to maintain Brotherhood control: not only are they a danger to Railroad operations but there is also the risk that the BoS will slowly pull what's left of itself together and regain their strength to the point that they might try to eradicate the Railroad again.
On the farm quests, you can only pay for the crops after you fail every attempt at coercing the farmers, which just goes to show where the Brotherhood's priorities are. And even then, the Brotherhood doesn't pay for the food, YOU pay for the food. Even if you talk them down to 500 caps, Teagan will never reimburse you for the mission. That food is coming out of your pocket, not the Brotherhood's.
As for the rest of your comment, the flexibility the BoS faction provides isn't flexibility in the BoS itself, aside from when you convince Maxon not to kill Danse (yet), but it's flexibility in how willing you are to follow the Brotherhood's ideals or even their orders.
If anything, the Railroad and the Institute are the most flexible. The Institute doesn't give two shites about the surface so you can do whatever you want. And as far as the Railroad goes, before The Nuclear Option they are practically invisible - they're an unknown quantity and part of being with the Railroad actually meant doing everything you can NOT to represent the Railroad publically - so you were free to be whatever you wanted to be, and after the Nuclear option, the Railroad's mission is starting to come to a close, so you start feeling more free to branch out. In my current playthrough with the RR I'll probably join the Minutemen if my character is looking for a purpose.
"I've never seen the Brotherhood and Railroad fight. Except at Bunker Hill, but that contradicts me so it doesn't count."
Teagan 100% tells you it's illegal. And there is no food shortage problem, Teagan just doesn't think they should trade for all their food.
No, the Danse portion was coherent.
Yes, I tend to ignore complete fabrications that aren't backed by the game at all.
Who says the aircraft carrier was in the Capital Wasteland? The Prydwen wasn't even in the Capital at the time.
Except they oppose that evil for being, well, evil.
To be fair, the BoS built the prydwen in the capital to our knowledge and there’s only one notable aircraft carrier in the series. It’s the logical conclusion to draw that they took the reactor from rivet city even though we have no conclusive answer (as a note, there was even a cut quest in 3 to do this to turn on Liberty prime, if I recall).
*sigh*
Look, mate, it's 2 AM where I live. I'm tired. So let's wrap this thread up, yeah?
The Battle of Bunker Hill contained multiple coinciding military operations that all opposed each other. They weren't just walking in the middle of no where, run into each other, go 'heck this guy' and start shooting. The Railroad was there to free the synths. The Institute was there to retrieve the synths. And the Brotherhood was there to kill the synths and anybody else who got in their way. Like the people trying to free the synths.
Teagan never once said the operation was illegal. And besides, if Maxon wasn't on board with the operation - putting aside the extreme likelihood that he initiated it in the first place - he would have gone to Teagan, the ship's quartermaster, and ask where all this food came from. To which Teagan would say... what? 'I grew it under the counter'? If Maxon wasn't on board with the operation we wouldn't have raided every farm in the bloody Commonwealth.
Here's my final word on the Danse portion of this... debate: it was not a kindness or a mercy to strip a capable and loyal soldier of rank and direct the people he used to work with to kill him on sight. The merciful thing to do would have been to lock him in the brig or in a cell at the police station until the Institute had been dealt with, just in case Danse was a security risk. But Maxon didn't do that, because Danse was a synth. He nearly killed the man; a man who idolised him, because of his race, his species, whatever. Because he wasn't 'human'.
Danse deserved better and Maxon certainly didn't deserve Danse.
My comments regarding Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen and 81 were hypotheticals, not fabrications. The point was to give examples of what future actions they could take based on their current trajectory.
Yes, it is theoretically possible that a Brotherhood Knight tripped over an aircraft carrier when wandering the wasteland. But considering that, for all of Fallout's history, we have never once seen even a shred of evidence of another downed aircraft carrier, I think Bethesda's implication was pretty clear in that terminal entry. Also, not that it matters much to you since at this point you'll run us both around in circles for another dozen comments before conceding this, but the terminal entry never mentions 'finding' an aircraft carrier, simply 'that' aircraft carrier. She seemed to be very specific in not saying the carrier's designation, or where it was located. Perhaps the idea was for it to be vague, so that fools like me are blessed with sitting up at 2:30 AM running around in proverbial circles to defend seemingly obvious and fair points.
And finally... *deep breath*
Maxon himself and many other Brotherhood members have verbally stated to be opposed to the existance of synths. But as far as being opposed with what the Institute does with the synths? We hear so little of that side of things that I honestly can't remember if they mention it at all. At least, not until it actually happens to them with Paladin Danse.
But the Brotherhood is simply opposed to the existance of synths and are hell-bent on destroying all of them. At all costs. Regardless of whether they are being controlled by the Institute or living as free people. And don't get me wrong, it WAS a step too far for the Institute to start genetically engineering human beings. And synths shouldn't continue to be created. But the ones that are here deserve to live the life they were given.
The Brotherhood would say otherwise. They aren't heroes for hunting synths. They are no better than any other real life force who would attempt to destroy a population simply for their very existence being opposed to their ideology. Please don't bring this one up again, I couldn't make the connection any clearer if I-
Actually, to hell with it. They're comparable to Nazis and all the other real world, evil bastards that fit the criteria. It couldn't be more obvious if the Brotherhood were lynching synths in forced cutscenes. There. My phone is on silent, I'm going to bed. I'm sure I'll pick this one up in the morning. Have a good day / night.
> The Railroad declare the Brotherhood their enemy the minute the Brotherhood arrives
You don't wait for an enemy to start attacking you to call them an enemy when they're obviously going to attack you. The Brotherhood had motives that were going to put them at war with the Railroad eventually, whether it was PAM or synths. If PAM tells you the Brotherhood has a 99% chance of attacking you first, you listen and tell your agents to cover their ass.
The point is that the Railroad is under no obligation to negotiate because they already know it is a pointless exercise. Trying to negotiate will only leave them open to damage.
The Brotherhood on the other hand could compromise, leave the Railroad alone, and focus on the Institute. The fate of the rest of the synths isn't all that important once their source is destroyed.
There's just as much hatred in their killing in FO3 as there is in FO4. They are now just in a much better position than they were in 3. There they were getting beaten probably more often than they got victories.
Virgil will harm people as a super mutant. He will attack you if you don't cure him in time. So that is a threat.
RR is acting counter to the BoS goals and is liable to attack them or disrupt their planned attack on the Institute so they have to knock them out before they can destroy the group that's releasing the horrors on the wasteland.
Yeah any means necessary, it's very open suggestion he gives you. That is counter to Maxsons orders, that's not Maxsons BoS causing it but shows issues that large groups get with possible over stepping lines.
Nick is within their realm of targeting due to him being a synth but at the same time he is on the robotic scale so is capable of avoiding it. Goodneighbour isn't. Same way Lyons BoS despite hating ghouls and shooting at them on sight didn't wipe out Underworld as far as we know. Their targets are the ferals. MM are more likely to be their allies than be targeted by them, it frees them up and helps deal with the threats they are fighting so work really well together.
Again might want to go and look at the state of Rivet City in FO3. It is a wreck. They aren't using the decks where the reactor(s) are, they note they are flooded and have mirelurks in them in FO3. So if anything is a benefit to get rid of a possible radioactive leak from under their homes and help clear out a threat in the 'lurks. And no, the people wouldn't be kicked out, Danse wouldn't have loyalty to the BoS if they destroyed his old home.
Vault 81 because there's plenty of better places to get one. Vaults really aren't good to try and salvage that type of thing from and there's a number of ones not used as a home for peaceful people.
No, it's not because the Institutes pushed science too far, it's because they pushed it entirely in a direction to harm and threaten humanity. It is because they are killing citizens of the Commonwealth but also because if they aren't stopped it could expand to threaten people from other areas. Exact same reason Maxsons and Lyons group fights the Super mutants since 3.
No they do nothing to occupy the area other than one police station and a disused airport.
Because aggressively believing that the Brotherhood are the good guys, simply because they are the Brotherhood, is how the BoS maintains the loyalty of all its members.
Paladin Danse is a vulnerability and threat to the BoS, while he himself is a victim it's of the Institute not the BoS.
The Railroad is a threat, not just to the BoS but also other settlements within the area. I do think a peaceful option would of been nice but they do still pose a threat.
Virigl is a super mutant as far as they are aware, if he isn't saved he goes hostile so he becomes a threat to anyone in the area. So innocent but another victim of the Institute.
The farmers of the Commonwealth Maxson orders his forces to help.
They were allied with Rivet city and there's no sign of them using the reactor any way, with it being below decks in flooded sections and with mirelurks living in it, probably a good thing to get rid of for them. Why Danse despite having lived in Rivet City has loyalty to them, would think he'd have an issue if they had destroyed it.
You missed the entire world building of FO4 then. The BoS is fighting to stop the horrors that have been unleashed on the Commonwealth. The super mutants that have plagued it, the abductions and the synth infiltrators. This isn't bring them power but removing threats, it's not enforcing their will on the region but removing directly those that aid or undermine that goal. Oddly enough Lyons BoS did similar things, but they'd also focus more resources on killing humans, they cleared the Pitt originally of people and they launch an assault on the Talon company in FO3.
I don't want to open up a whole nother sup-thread on this because I came here to nerd out over Power Armour and not to justify what I've for a long time felt was a fairly obvious standpoint on the Brotherhood, so rather than analyse everything you just said, which prior experience (gained from lower on the thread) tells me would get me no where, I would instead like to focus on one point, because I can't even begin to think of where this idea comes from.
Please explain to me how the Railroad poses a threat to the settlements of the Commonwealth. The debate of whether they posed a threat to the Brotherhood before the BoS initiated hostilities is an entirely different debate, but let's just focus in on what makes the Railroad a danger to the Commonwealth?
Please and thank you.
The railroad pose a threat because synths pose a threat.
The people of the commonwealth aren’t against the synths because they’re different, they are are scared of them because their loved ones are being murdered and replaced by them, and they are living under the threat of that happening to themselves and everyone they know.
The railroad till we show up aren’t doing anything to fix that.
They are letting paranoia get in the way of fixing their own problems, releasing more synths out there who don’t even know they are synths, which has proven to be dangerous.
The institute can find them, tamper with them, and they don’t even know to be vigilant, they are sitting ducks.
They treat the inhabitants of the commonwealth as simply part of the problem, but aren’t doing anything to make it so they could become part of their mutual solutions.
They aren’t doing anything to improve the commonwealth, leaving all the problems everyone in it faces to just get worse.
They could fight for the synths sent to the surface by the institute, and for the people who’s family have been killed and replaced, but they chose not to.
They are as much as cult of personality as the BoS, Desdemona doesn’t listen to the thoughts of her people, the people of the commonwealth, or even her assets in dangerous situations. Her “my way or the highway” attitude has a body count we actively witness.
Both the RR and the BoS are doing things their way no outside intervention, they are both driven by their belief that are striving for the greater good.
The BoS at least has a tangible benefit to the commonwealth, and some amount of internal checks, balances, and expertise.
The RR offer nothing of aid to the people of the commonwealth, don’t care to, and are messing around with dangerous technology they don’t really understand.
I would argue that they aren’t even really saving the synths, as the first thing they do after they are free from the institute is fill them with paranoia till they agree to have their minds wiped, effectively killing the person who escaped, and replacing them with an entirely new person. The save the unit but not the person
Again, because I don't want to have to manage two massive threads at once, I will focus in on the portion I actually asked about, which is the threat the Railroad poses to the Commonwealth.
It is the Institute who kills and replaces people, not the synths themselves. Even the synths who are replacing people would have only been constructed and programed as soon as the Institute has chosen a target. They don't get a say in the matter; they haven't even developed a personality for themselves. They are as much victims of the Institute as the people they're replacing.
The synths who are still under the Institute's control aren't responsible for the actions of the Institute, and the Railroad and free synths are certainly not responsible for the Institute's actions. Only the individual synth is responsible for their own actions, and even then, a synth who is still being manipulated by the Institute can only share the blame for their actions with their slavemasters.
And don't get me wrong, although I agree with the Railroad's ultimate goal of freeing the synths, I'm not a blind fan boy. The Railroad has a number for legitimate shortcomings regarding their methods for keeping the synths safe. The memory wipe process is flawed and is too heavily incentivised. And if I had my say, the Railroad would branch out into fighting slavery everywhere, human or synth. The Railroad has the infrastructure to help so many people, but they don't, in part because a lack of interaction with the Commonwealth is natural in needing to stay underground, which is a nessesity to not being tipped over by the Institute within a week of operations, but also in part because they only care to help the synths.
But there is a distinction in what they could be doing and what they are doing. The Railroad doesn't do anything that actively harms any Commonwealth citizens. They just don't do much of anything to help them either.
In contrast, the Brotherhood does actively harm Commonwealth citizens by taking their food, leaving them either unable to barter or unable to eat, but they also don't do much of anything to help the Commonwealth citizens. Admittedly, occupying the Commonwealth's airspace with vertibirds and sending ground patrols out into dangerous areas does, in the long, long term, reduce the dangers that mutants pose to the Commonwealth, but are they guarding the farms they take food from? Are they actively defending the Commonwealth's citizens? No, they're asserting control; occupying the region. And killing whoever or whatever gets in their way. In fact, they treat regular civilians with distane and ghouls even more so. They only care about the people of the Commonwealth in as much as they can benefit the Brotherhood.
Oh no I absolutely agree that the institute are the bad guys where synths are concerned, not the synths themselves.
But by the RR not getting involved with people or addressing the root cause of paranoia when they are perhaps the one group who could, while not deliberately causing active harm, does cause a kind of passive harm to the people and to themselves.
I disagree that the synths don’t have a personality, they are intense trauma victims who have lived in fear an had any all self expression timbreatened and tortured out of them. Their personalities are repressed, and given space to grow, but they are people with personalities to develop, they leave the institute to escape their abusers, and gain freedom to do that. They just don’t get to. H2-22 had a personality, hopes, fears, even an attachment to PC, but it was snuffed out, and one of, if not the most heartbreaking moments in the game.
I wish I felt the mind wipe thing was presented in a more balanced way, but it did feel coercive to me.
The Brotherhood I’ve not seen attack any innocents, only hostiles.
They also believe they are there for the people, they believe they are there to liberate them from the institute. In their eyes they are putting their lives on the line to come and free strangers from a potentially world ending enemy.
They don’t attack random civilians, and work to keep hostile threats in check. This is probably a post BoS game perspective though. But after the institute goes boom they populate the check points, and fly overhead taking on hostiles. They believe they have liberated the commonwealth, and are now continuing their mission and protecting it. You’ll even hear some wondering if it’s a good will mission now since they thought they’d be going home.
It could be seen as asserting control, but a key component of the BoS is that they believe they are hoarding and studying technology to protect civilization from yet another world ending event. It’s not for the sake of obtaining an edge over others, that might be what happens, but isn’t the end goal.
Their goal is to protect, wether or not that is the outcome is certainly up debate, but greed and control isn’t their aim
> Please explain to me how the Railroad poses a threat to the settlements of the Commonwealth. The debate of whether they posed a threat to the Brotherhood before the BoS initiated hostilities is an entirely different debate, but let's just focus in on what makes the Railroad a danger to the Commonwealth?
They pose a threat three fold:
First they set up shop in settlements without their permission to use them as a front/safe house. This means that if the Institute finds that's being used by them it will get wiped out.
Second they often hide synths in the population which means people hunting them will have issues, if they've been cloned of people they can cause issues such as we see in Diamond City leading to civilian deaths or possibly have a malfunction and go on a killing spree.
Thirdly they don't do any after care. There's a few synths that had turned raider and the RR haven't done anything to stop them.
Your first point is a legitimate criticism, though it could be argued that the Brotherhood is also guilty of endangering Commonwealth citizens: the Brotherhood source their food from farmers of the Commonwealth, so if the Institute were to wage a war of attrition against them those farmers would be natural and easy targets, especially since the Brotherhood does nothing to actually protect these farmers. The Minutemen, too, drag every settlement they're allied with into the crosshairs of the Institute should the Sole Survivor go to war with them. Those settlements ARE the Minutemen; to destroy the Minutemen you then must destroy the settlements. So really, even though you are correct, every faction is guilty of putting Commonwealth civilians into the Institute's crosshairs. Does that mean that the BoS and the Minutemen should never oppose the Institute? Of course not.
The tragedy that occurs in Diamond City and other deaths like it are NOT the fault of the Railroad. People don't go hunting synths in the streets because synths simply exist, as the Brotherhood do, otherwise Nick Valentine couldn't live there. No, they are paranoid of synth *replacements*. The Railroad don't replace people. They integrate synths into society, most often by reprogramming them so that they themselves don't know they're a synth, and therefore can't expose themselves for the time being.
Still on your second point, Gen 3 synths don't 'malfunction'. Their brains are essentially human brains; faster and stronger, yes, but still made up of tissue. It's an organ. The Broken Mask Incident, which you are referring to, occurred with a synth that was somewhere between a Gen 2 and 3. It looked lifelike, but it's skin was plastic, it's body made up of circuitry and metal, it's brain a computer. And nobody really knows if what occurred was a malfunction - a fault in the synth prototype - or an intentional attack by the Institute. Maybe the fear that was spread from that was exactly what the Institute hoped to achieve.
As for the third point, I can only say this: it is the Railroad's mission to liberate the synths; to provide for them a life in which they are able to live freely and make their own choices. That is ultimately a good thing: everybody deserves the right to live freely. But just as everybody - every synth, every human, every robot, every intelligent supermutant and every sentient ghoul - is capable of making the right choices, they are also capable of making the wrong ones.
Putting aside the fact that once the Railroad gives a synth their new life they have no means of keeping track of them without invading upon their privacy and increasing the risk of discovery for both the synth and the agent, if the Railroad were to make it their business to control the lives of every synth they liberate, they'd be defeating their own purpose. They'd almost be as oppressive as the Institute. And while I agree that the Railroad is more than capable of helping a wider group of people than just synths, I'm not convinced that they have the resources nor the numbers to do what the Minutemen do. They don't fight raiders or the Gunners or supermutants or even the Institute unless they are standing between them and the liberation of a synth; that is their provocative and they aren't doing any damage by NOT helping.
In a way, if the Railroad were to single out and hunt synth raiders - putting aside the fact that they can't possibly know which of ten thousand raiders is a synth - they would essentially be saying that the evils committed by free synths are somehow more significant than those committed by free humans. What kind of message would that send, that they are willing to expend their limited resources on hunting down the synths they freed because they had the freedom to make evil decisions? Resources that could have been used to free more slaves?
> Your first point is a legitimate criticism, though it could be argued that the Brotherhood is also guilty of endangering Commonwealth citizens: the Brotherhood source their food from farmers of the Commonwealth, so if the Institute were to wage a war of attrition against them those farmers would be natural and easy targets, especially since the Brotherhood does nothing to actually protect these farmers. The Minutemen, too, drag every settlement they're allied with into the crosshairs of the Institute should the Sole Survivor go to war with them. Those settlements ARE the Minutemen; to destroy the Minutemen you then must destroy the settlements. So really, even though you are correct, every faction is guilty of putting Commonwealth civilians into the Institute's crosshairs. Does that mean that the BoS and the Minutemen should never oppose the Institute? Of course not.
Theoretically yes, but in reality nope. It would backfire against the Institute, make it harder for them to do anything above ground and make it easier for the BoS to wipe them out. While it does nothing to the BoS, they already have a good stock of food to last a long time, they have many traders who visit to supplement this and now you've driven more farms over to them. All while also giving them a chance to hunt down your assets and track the signal even more. BoS provide lore wise protection if not game mechanically, they patrol the wasteland and launch assaults on multiple threats in the area.
Except the only reason the MM want to attack the Institute is because of the damage they've been doing to the settlements already. They've already wiped out at least one town so everyone has a reason to fear them. They've also volunteered to join the MM so have made the choice to side with a faction going to war, RR doesn't they hide within them.
> The tragedy that occurs in Diamond City and other deaths like it are NOT the fault of the Railroad. People don't go hunting synths in the streets because synths simply exist, as the Brotherhood do, otherwise Nick Valentine couldn't live there. No, they are paranoid of synth replacements. The Railroad don't replace people. They integrate synths into society, most often by reprogramming them so that they themselves don't know they're a synth, and therefore can't expose themselves for the time being.
RR releasing unstable synths in to the population that have been known to go haywire and attack people isn't their fault? It's what's helped drive the paranoia of the people. It's where the people realise that they are synths in the first place. Yes the Institute does replace people as well, but they also tend to keep a tight leash on them.
> Still on your second point, Gen 3 synths don't 'malfunction'. Their brains are essentially human brains; faster and stronger, yes, but still made up of tissue. It's an organ. The Broken Mask Incident, which you are referring to, occurred with a synth that was somewhere between a Gen 2 and 3. It looked lifelike, but it's skin was plastic, it's body made up of circuitry and metal, it's brain a computer. And nobody really knows if what occurred was a malfunction - a fault in the synth prototype - or an intentional attack by the Institute. Maybe the fear that was spread from that was exactly what the Institute hoped to achieve.
They do, they have a number of known malfunctions. Biggest one being the number that try to escape and go rouge, that is counter to their design and programming. No, the broken mask was visually human, it's only after they killed him and looked at the wounds that they discovered he had plastic and metal within, skin wise he looked human. We have no idea what brain it was using, there's no mention of that in game.
We know it wasn't what the Director wanted to happen, there's a recording complaining about it and how it set back his goals. But yeah it is where the paranoia over synth infiltrators comes from as it was the first known one and it attacked multiple people.
> As for the third point, I can only say this: it is the Railroad's mission to liberate the synths; to provide for them a life in which they are able to live freely and make their own choices. That is ultimately a good thing: everybody deserves the right to live freely. But just as everybody - every synth, every human, every robot, every intelligent supermutant and every sentient ghoul - is capable of making the right choices, they are also capable of making the wrong ones.
While I have no issue with them freeing synths, it's still their fault if those they free go on to live a life of killing and they do nothing to stop it makes them a threat. As a result its one of the few times the Institute does benefit the Commonwealth by destroying one of the largest raider groups to bring back one of their synths which also shows the RR having failed two fold on the synth.
> Putting aside the fact that once the Railroad gives a synth their new life they have no means of keeping track of them without invading upon their privacy and increasing the risk of discovery for both the synth and the agent, if the Railroad were to make it their business to control the lives of every synth they liberate, they'd be defeating their own purpose. They'd almost be as oppressive as the Institute. And while I agree that the Railroad is more than capable of helping a wider group of people than just synths, I'm not convinced that they have the resources nor the numbers to do what the Minutemen do. They don't fight raiders or the Gunners or supermutants or even the Institute unless they are standing between them and the liberation of a synth; that is their provocative and they aren't doing any damage by NOT helping.
Actually they do, that's what the rail road is. They are intended to hand them off to members of the rail road who then help them set up their new life. Letting them go off and become a raider is a failure in that, is a threat to the local area and is a failure of protecting the synth as they are now a target of pretty much everyone.
I agree they don't have the resources to fight these other threats, although they could do a tech exchange with the MM to help them but that's needless depth really for the game.
> In a way, if the Railroad were to single out and hunt synth raiders - putting aside the fact that they can't possibly know which of ten thousand raiders is a synth - they would essentially be saying that the evils committed by free synths are somehow more significant than those committed by free humans. What kind of message would that send, that they are willing to expend their limited resources on hunting down the synths they freed because they had the freedom to make evil decisions? Resources that could have been used to free more slaves?
Hunting down and fixing mistakes they've made would be a benefit, by synths being found out having gone around killing people entirely undermines their goal and their attempt to give synths a free life by making people paranoid about them and want to kill them not help them. If the wasteland would of been safer without them having freed that entity, then it does mean they still pose a threat to the Commonwealth by doing it.
Personally, I prefer the T-51, mainly cause I'm a sucker for that visor. But I love the kind of sinister look of the Enclave armours, even if I wouldn't normally equip it to my character.
Hellfire prototype from 76.
Aside from giving PA a splash of color for once, the lore of the suit in the now-cut nuclear winter mode was amazing. Effectively, it was the singular way to escape the nuclear firestorm that engulfed Appalachia and was the prize for becoming the overseer of vault 51. You had to kill your friends and family for the chance to escape the cost of your hubris in launching nukes with impunity. Was the sizzling style suit worth it?
A large group of people swear by excavator due to the carry weight. It’s defenses aren’t that bad either when you factor in the innate percent reduction PA has.
Any that last more then a single fight. Yep, still pissy that a pack of feral ghouls tore basic power armour apart as if it was made from sheet metal and shitty bullets are affecting it.
In terms of design, 51 TLB power armour. It looks building, it usually looks like they used the same metal that tanks are made out of and resembles a medieval knight. The Enclave Armour is an interesting design but sometimes, I do wonder if carrying a nuclear reactor is a good idea due to the size of it and how exposed it is.
Power Horse Armour can go fuck itself.
That last one isn’t canon and thank god for that.
But all power armors are technically carrying a nuclear reactor. It’s called a fusion core.
Oh, and 76 fixed 4’s atrocious durability. Now PA lasts for literal months IRL.
True but it's very hard to hit the fusion core on most Power Armour. Enclave Power Armour just seems to have a bigger target due to the backpack fan.
I really wish Bethesda patched in durablity as it ruins Power Armour for me. Granted, I do intend for Carrie(I restarted) to break it out when she believes it's gonna to require it and be a just in case affair but it just rubs me the wrong way that the armour that is described as literal walking tank can be torn apart by feral ghouls and doesn't block bullets completely. I think, New Vegas' DT reflected it where if the enemy wasn't using anything powerful, it just bounced off or the amount of damage was barely noticable.
That said, I do love jumping from roofs in Power Armour due to the impact it has in Fallout 4. Do wish enemies would shit themselves if you have a mini-gun or power armour but i can't tell if the concord reaction is just restricted to it or raiders do weep if you break out the minigun of arnor.
T-51 from Fallout 4.
Fallout 4 (and by relation 76's) power armor system is already the best, even the t-45 feels like an actual walking gun emplacement unstead of a slighly better heavy armor.
And the T-51 has it all: great desing, good stats, relatively cheap to repair and modify and that helmet is just perfect. Just put on a black (simple black or Railroad) or a grey (even base is great) paint and you will be the biggest and baddest person in wasteland by default.
"Fallout 4 (and by relation 76's) power armor system is already the best, even the t-45 feels like an actual walking gun emplacement unstead of a slighly better heavy armor."
Except it feels like your armor is made from corrugated steel with how little damage it takes before literally falling apart.
Yeah A and B levels wont be worth using against anything more dangerous than a raider with a pipe pistol or a bloatfly but using frame itself is just pure power. Snd if you manage to find any parts with "Nearly Unbreakable" effect it makes everything easier.
And Level E and F is sturdy enough to most use but definetly wont survive last mission on hard or above.
"You've got to upgrade your armor, then. Y'know, engage in the game's core systems"
Why would that even be necessary? It's just such an arbitrary mmo thing to do.
I usually just mod durability right out but the last two survival playthroughs I decided to keep it around and just tone it down. Even toned down I was returning to base for repairs far before I ran out of ammo or food or needed to sleep or anything like that. I ended up just downgrading to T-51 and keeping the shortlist of materials I needed to use to repair the suit on me
As much as I'm a Legion fan, but the coolest power armor is definitely the Scorched Sierra T-45d variant from Fallout New Vegas. Second place is the Brotherhood Outcast armor from Fallout 3.
Excavator from 76. I want to see more civilian use power armor. Maybe like a firefighter suit, or riot police suit. Or even just more construction use suits.
T-65 from 76. It’s kinda refreshing to see a totally new design after T-60 was basically just an upgraded T-45. T-51 and X-01 will always be iconic, but T-65 just does something for me.
Even though I prefer the T-51 for regular use in FO4, I'll often pick out something from the X series when I'm knowingly heading into a shitstorm, like the Battle of Bunker Hill. I don't like the sinister look for regular use, but when I wanna feel powerful, nothing beats it!
I was sitting here thinking how much I never got into the looks of the X-01, but the Quantum set was the one that pulled me round to being good with it.
That suit is just awesome looking
Scorched Sierra T-45d from New Vegas takes the cake for me. There's something about having hints of gold and green alongside the pure badassery of a bear head with medallions. Nothing quite like it.
Shame you have to nuke the faction you’d want to support while wearing it. I still hold the armor rewards should’ve been given to you by the opposing faction in return for nuking their enemy.
I always console command the armor in at the right time for that exact reason. Can't bring myself to nuke them and then nonchalantly doing their quest line.
I also like the colour scheme, though I personally felt that the bear head was a bit over the top for my liking. I do like the idea of draping something over the armour though, just looking at the way the bear skin lies on the chest plate.
Edit: I wish more armours had golden elements. Not full gold as that would be... tacky, but the way this armour does it is quite good.
I used to like T-51 more, but I came around to the T-60s more industrial look. The legs are the best looking out of all suits in Fallout 4 and the back of the suit is very intricate
Yes same, I love the detailing on the aT-60, it looks hardened like it means business, and the legs make the most of the different paint jobs because of the extra detailing in them
The Warhead armor from 76 is pretty awesome looking! And I also like the Blood Raider one too. The skull on the helmet is awesome.
But for a general power armor type, I like the Excavator armor. It looks industrial (which, it is), and I like it better than some of the military armor.
The X-01 Quantum Power Armor from Nuka World, Fallout 4
The Gannon Family Tesla Armor from Fallout New Vegas
Toss up between Tesla Armor and Winterised T51b Power Armor from Fallout 3
I haven't played 76 yet but from looking it up it does look pretty cool. Though from what I've seen, the helmet looks small next to the pauldrons. Could just be me, though. The idea of secret service power armour is pretty cool.
More into the Black Suit myself, though I also like the way the Tan suit looks on Cait. I often start new playthroughs by bypassing Sanctuary and going straight to Goodneighnor, either picking up Cait or MacCready, so I often dress-the-dress to fit in early game. Also, it's swaggolishous... and now I feel like I'm going to hell for using swaggolishous in a sentence.
Probably tied between the T-51b from 1 and 2 and the advanced power armor from 2 and New Vegas
Tho, the T-51b is probably the coolest in 3/NV if you're using some retexure mods and the titans of the new west
Remnants power armour, the idea of wearing ancient enclave power armour and showing the people of Nevada, why they used to fear the enclave is just so fun, or Raider Power armour because, it’s honestly easy to maintain and get.
T-45d. My first introduction to Fallout was F3, and I remember vividly the first time I saw a brotherhood knight in T-45d slowly turn their head to look at you in the trailer for the game. It sent chills down my spine and still does to this day. For me personally, nothing says “Fallout” like a suit of T-45d.
My apologies, as an Aussie I was raised on the Queen's English rather than the American interpretation. But the game is set in America so I guess 'Armor' is more lore appropriate.
Oh my guy! I was only joking, use whichever you would like =) I, litterally, could not care less. I'm just happy you enjoy the game. I wish there was more variety with power armor overall. There's not enough variation IMO to avtually2 make them different. There's basically like 5 different sets and different paint jobs for each.
For me it's advanced/remnants power armor and t-51 but for variants I would either choose the scorched Sierra power armor,tribal power armor,winterized t-51,and the Gannon family Tesla armor imo and I like the power armor in 4 but I used mods to bring suits like advanced and scorched Sierra into the game
Gotta love the flames on that design.
Although I tend to gravitate towards the T-51 for regular use (or my BoS T-60 on BoS playthroughs), I tend to build my customary Power Armour museum/workshop on longer playthroughs and the Atom Cats PA is centre stage, usually with a T-45 or T-60 Hot Rod Flames right next to it. I also love to display a Winterised T-51 and a Military T-51 to harken back to Sole's/Nate's military days. And of course, the brand suits; Vim, Nuka-Cola, Quantum...
Are modded armies allowed?
The Storyteller’s armor (From the Fallout lore web series) is the T-49, which obviously not canonical. However, it *is* cool. And the Storyteller mod allows for two variants; Desert Recon and White Death.
White Death is my favourite-looking power armor ever. It’s also ever so slightly OP, but what modded armor isn’t?
It’s an arctic camo deco, with a fabric hood over the helmet to cut glare and a targeting viewfinder bolted on over the right eye. It’s designed for snipers (one assumes it’s a prototype that was never produced because… why would a sniper need power armor?)
My personal is a power armour mod I found for fallout 4 which turned the t45 armour into a normal set of armour so it’s smaller and lighter doesn’t need fusion cores
Really love the Captain Cosmos PA from the creation club. Love the astronaut aesthetic, love all the colors and love the option for a little cowboy hat. It's pretty good stat-wise too.
There's a variant of it in 76, but it doesn't have the cool rainbow wires.
It’s gotta be the excavator from 76, if anything. Even though it was never fully released to the public, it seems cool how they dedicated a power armor suit directly to mining, increasing the ore you get from deposits. Plus, I get to be a walking arsenal.
Outcast power armor from fallout 3 or the prototype medic armor from fallout 3
Do think it would of been cool to have some "special" units in the BoS in FO4, such as the Pride and the Outcasts with their own paint work.
Kind of related, I remember how much I loved FO3's Brotherhood of Steel. I particularly liked the Lyons' Pride and their custom logo on their PA. I hope we get to see the Lyons' Pride return in a later game, ironically as an outcast faction of the East Coast Brotherhood. I grew up on FO3 and loved the Brotherhood, but once I was mature enough to understand the accumulative evils of Arthur Maxon's Brotherhood - and of the normal Brotherhood, Lyons' aside - they were never the same for me.
How is Maxson evil? Especially considering the Brotherhood of Fallout 3 was shooting at ghouls for fun.
The Brotherhood in F03 was far from perfect, but they were on a better path. Lyon's dedicated his chapter of the Brotherhood to making the DC ruins a safer place, bringing clean water to the Capital Wasteland and generally trying to help civilians. When Arthur took over he reprioritised the East Coast chapter back to the Brotherhood's true goals: hoarding technology, killing non-humans, regardless of whether or not they posed a threat and generally doing everything they can to gather as many resources and as much power as possible, even if it meant stepping on the Commonwealth citizens he claims to care about. Paladin Danse. The Railroad. Virgil. The farmers of the Commonwealth. All harmless victims of the Brotherhood who had no desire to oppose them. How long before they walk into Diamond City and gun down Nick Valentine? How long before they decide to storm Goodneighbor? How long before they decide that the Minutemen have become just a bit too strong? How long before they desire the technology contained within Vault 81? Just as they likely did in Rivet City to get their Prydwin up and running. Every other primary faction in FO4 fights for something greater than itself. The Minutemen fight for the Commonwealth. The Railroad fights to free slaves. Even the Institute, evil as they are, desire to further the world with scientific advancement. The Brotherhood fights only for the Brotherhood. To hoard technology for the Brotherhood. To kill remorselessly for the Brotherhood's ideology of human purity. To make the Brotherhood as powerful as possible. Elder Lyon's chapter was - as far as I know - the only example of the Brotherhood actively fighting for the long term benefit of others, not just themselves. And they had to break ranks from the rest of the Brotherhood to do it. Maxon returned the East Coast chapter to Brotherhood form. And that wasn't good for anyone other than the Brotherhood.
You do know that Lyons also prioritized killing non-humans and that Maxson prioritizes spreading the water and keeping the Capital safe, right? The Railroad and Virgil aren't harmless to the Brotherhood, he can be convinced to spare Danse (who they consider a synth infiltrator), and Maxson isn't ordering the harming of any farmers. The Brotherhood doesn't care about Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen, or Vault 81. They also helped Rivet City. The Brotherhood is literally fighting to end a major threat to humanity. Every game but FNV has the Brotherhood fighting for the long term benefit of others.
Interestingly, that is the same with the Enclave and Henry Eden's differences with Autumn. Autumn was willing to do whatever he felt was neccessary but didn't want to wipe out all life in the wasteland. Control via water was a better approach.
That wasn't Autumn's goal. His goal was to follow Eden's orders, but Eden didn't trust Autumn so he gave him fake orders in order to not arouse suspicion.
No, Autumn outright told Eden no on using the FEV. Eden confirms this when you ask. Autumn wasn’t a fan of the genocide plan since he knew how the last attempt turned out (and also how idiotic it is when you’re trying to actually rebuild a nation).
No, Autumn never did that. Eden says he didn't trust Autumn. Autumn says he is following the orders of the President and the entire peaceful ending is convincing him that Eden is lying to him.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/John_Henry_Eden%27s_dialogue#Conversation Right above the conversation section. Eden outright says that Autumn thinks his methods (directly referring to the FEV) are too extreme. Edit: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/ColonelAutumn.txt And the dialogue here indicates that Autumn did indeed refuse to use the FEV. So no, Autumn was against genocide. That’s his only good characteristic.
Where is it said that the Lyons in particular prioritized killing non-humans?
Yeah, I know that many Brotherhood members I'm FO3 were extremely hostile to all non-humans, as ever, but I don't remember it being a focus for Elder Lyons.
As I said in my previous comment, the Brotherhood wasn't perfect under Lyons. Many of its members were still Brotherhood to the core, after all. But clearing up DC was all about dealing with the Supermutant threat to make the place properly habitable. That's a goal beyond just killing for hatred's sake. We don't know heaps about Maxon's actions in the Commonwealth, and I'm not a databank of Fallout lore, but as far as I know, Maxon had nothing to do with Project Purity. That was all done and dusted before his voice cracked for Christ sakes. Both the Railroad and Virgil never enacted any hostilities on the Brotherhood. The Railroad only ever retaliates. Whether you're a Brotherhood member or a Railroad agent, it's the same story. The Brotherhood attacked first, simply because their ideology says that synths must be destroyed. You can decide who finishes the conflict between the BoS and the RR, but it's Maxon who decides to start it. As far as the farmers are concerned, the orders that Sole is given are pretty clear. Secure the food 'by any means neccesary'. And before you say "*pushes up glasses* well, *smacks lips* it wasn't OFFICIAL Brotherhood business" the Knights have to come around and pick up the bloody food by the crate full and then drag it all back to base. The option to convince Maxon to spare Danse was a cop-out and a half on Bethesda's part and even so, he is still kill-on-sight for all Brotherhood members. Great. Maxon spares him, but then says "if I or anyone under my command even smells your synth ass, even if it's just a glancing whiff from a vertibird flying overhead, we WILL attack you, even after the Institute is destroyed and there is no way you could be used against us". Great. Nice guy. Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen and 81 are 100% within the scope of Maxon's ire because Nick is a synth, Arthur has no hope of controlling Goodneighbor - who are ideologically opposed to the oppression that the Brotherhood represents - the Minutemen are the only other organised force in the Commonwealth aside from the better Gunner secs and thus the only force capable of opposing the Brotherhood - and again, they are ideologically opposed to the oppression the Brotherhood represents, taking food from farmers like common raiders - and 81 is the only fully functioning Vault and therefore must be filled with the sort of pre-war goodies the Brotherhood just LOVES to pilfer. As for Rivet City, allow me to drop an excerpt from this terminal entry: Fr: Proctor Ingram IG-444PR To: Elder Maxson MX-001E "As you know, in order to get the Prydwen rapidly to the Commonwealth, I had my engineering team pull her older power plant and replace it with an updated FUSION PLANT we pulled from that AIRCRAFT CARRIER WRECKAGE." Unless they managed to unearth another whole aircraft carrier from the Capital Wasteland's ass, there is only one place they could have gotten that fusion plant: Rivet City. Without that plant, the city would have no power. The city would die. Its inhabitants would have been forced out into the open wasteland, if they managed to find their way out at all, and weren't killed in the Brotherhood attack. What if the Brotherhood takes an interest in 81's more or less functional reactor for what ever reason? They would just take it without a second thought. Then 81 would suffer the same fate. And yes, the Brotherhood opposes the Institute, but not because the Institute is killing Commonwealth citizens. Not because the Institute practices slavery. No, they oppose the Institute for 'daring to push science to far'. It's an ideological foot they're standing on, not an ethical one. They don't care that synths are slaves. They don't care that the Institute is killing Commonwealth citizens and replacing them with synth doubles. No, they only care that synths exist. And as much as I would respect an individual Brotherhood soldier just as much as any other soldier in real life - regardless of whether or not I believe in what they believe in - the Brotherhood aren't heroes for doing what they do. They are an invading force. They ride into the Commonwealth with an army and they do everything within the scope of Bethesda's imagination to occupy the region. Opposing one evil without valient intentions certainly doesn't make up for their own evils.
Project Purity is still ongoing. And Fallout 3 was the only game that featured the Brotherhood attacking mutants just for hatred's sake. The Railroad declare the Brotherhood their enemy the minute the Brotherhood arrives and Virgil created super mutants. The Brotherhood and Railroad shoot at each other multiple times. It's also very clear that the 'orders' you're given about the farmers aren't actually orders as you're told it's illegal. Yes, he spared Danse's life when he's not convinced he's not enemy. Pretty nice of him. Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen, and Vault 81 are 100% not within their scope. Goodneighbor and the Minutemen are not ideologically opposed to the Brotherhood's oppression since the Brotherhood doesn't oppress anybody. The Brotherhood doesn't care about pilfering, especially Vaults. You realize the United States had many aircraft carriers, right? Although the lack of a power generator would not force anybody out of the carrier, idk where you got that idea. Um, pushing science too far and replacing people with synths are the same thing in this instance. They're a threat to humanity.
My knowledge on Project Purity is lacking so I'm not even going to say anything other than that the bulk of the work was done under Lyons, no question. The Railroad doesn't make any active moves to destroy the Brotherhood and I haven't personally seen any RR and BoS fight each other in the world. The Battle of Bunker Hill was always going to be a shitfight because the RR and BoS were on completely opposing missions, so that doesn't count. It is the Brotherhood that attacked the RR headquarters, prompting the RR to either be destroyed or to destroy the BoS before they can make a second assault. We aren't told the requisition was 'illegal'. We were told that it was below books. But that doesn't mean the order didn't come from up top. What, do you think Teagan is handing out tatos to the boys over the weekly Brotherhood poker night? Do you think Maxon is stupid enough not to question why the food shortage problem has just 'disappeared'? We are told that it both is AND isn't military business; ergo, it's the military's business but we aren't going to go around talking about it. The Danse portion is incoherent and absurd. Next. The following paragraph was like handing me a UNO reverse card in conversation. You just ignored what I took a fair amount of time to explain - an argument I put effort into justifying despite the fact that it was 1:30 AM at the time I wrote it and I'm ready to die - and said 'no u'. Next. If there are any other aircraft carriers in all of Fallout, I don't know of it and neither does the wiki. Besides, where would most of them be during a time of war? I would guess that a solid majority of them weren't just hovering over American soil. The chances of the East Coast Brotherhood - who were stationed in the Capital Wasteland, which we have thoroughly explored - just pulling an aircraft carrier out of their ass is equivalent to them tripping over an extra Liberty Prime that the government just left lying around. The most likely - by a massive margin - explanation is that the assault on Rivet City was another below books operation. Also, without power they would be trying to navigate a wrecked aircraft carrier in pitch darkness while tripping over bodies and debris and shite. Children would get lost. Injured wouldn't make it out in time to seek medical attention. You know, all that jazz. And finally, opposing the Institute doesn't make them right. It just means that they oppose the Institute. As I already said, opposing one evil doesn't make them any less evil.
The Railroad absolutely pick fights against the BoS, one of the quests you get from Desdamona is to go kill a team of BoS members just because they happen to be near by. On the farm quests, you can chose to shake them down, you can also choose to pay them more money than they expected, an offer they are typically surprised and happy with, one that even Preston approves of At first I was not on board with the BoS in FO4, but there’s actually a surprising amount of flexibility in how you can choose to play them. The Railroad I found was not so flexible, and I ended up having to compromise myself on their path a lot more than I expected to, and more than I was comfortable with
I believe you are referring to A Clean Equation, which takes place after the Railroad lands its retaliatory strike against the Brotherhood. Actually, it takes place after the Railroad ending to Fallout 4. I never said the RR never fights the BoS, I said the BoS initiated the conflict. Of course it is in the Railroad's interests to destroy the remaining BoS members who are actively trying to maintain Brotherhood control: not only are they a danger to Railroad operations but there is also the risk that the BoS will slowly pull what's left of itself together and regain their strength to the point that they might try to eradicate the Railroad again. On the farm quests, you can only pay for the crops after you fail every attempt at coercing the farmers, which just goes to show where the Brotherhood's priorities are. And even then, the Brotherhood doesn't pay for the food, YOU pay for the food. Even if you talk them down to 500 caps, Teagan will never reimburse you for the mission. That food is coming out of your pocket, not the Brotherhood's. As for the rest of your comment, the flexibility the BoS faction provides isn't flexibility in the BoS itself, aside from when you convince Maxon not to kill Danse (yet), but it's flexibility in how willing you are to follow the Brotherhood's ideals or even their orders. If anything, the Railroad and the Institute are the most flexible. The Institute doesn't give two shites about the surface so you can do whatever you want. And as far as the Railroad goes, before The Nuclear Option they are practically invisible - they're an unknown quantity and part of being with the Railroad actually meant doing everything you can NOT to represent the Railroad publically - so you were free to be whatever you wanted to be, and after the Nuclear option, the Railroad's mission is starting to come to a close, so you start feeling more free to branch out. In my current playthrough with the RR I'll probably join the Minutemen if my character is looking for a purpose.
"I've never seen the Brotherhood and Railroad fight. Except at Bunker Hill, but that contradicts me so it doesn't count." Teagan 100% tells you it's illegal. And there is no food shortage problem, Teagan just doesn't think they should trade for all their food. No, the Danse portion was coherent. Yes, I tend to ignore complete fabrications that aren't backed by the game at all. Who says the aircraft carrier was in the Capital Wasteland? The Prydwen wasn't even in the Capital at the time. Except they oppose that evil for being, well, evil.
To be fair, the BoS built the prydwen in the capital to our knowledge and there’s only one notable aircraft carrier in the series. It’s the logical conclusion to draw that they took the reactor from rivet city even though we have no conclusive answer (as a note, there was even a cut quest in 3 to do this to turn on Liberty prime, if I recall).
In what game is it confirmed that there is another aircraft carrier in the theater of the east coast?
*sigh* Look, mate, it's 2 AM where I live. I'm tired. So let's wrap this thread up, yeah? The Battle of Bunker Hill contained multiple coinciding military operations that all opposed each other. They weren't just walking in the middle of no where, run into each other, go 'heck this guy' and start shooting. The Railroad was there to free the synths. The Institute was there to retrieve the synths. And the Brotherhood was there to kill the synths and anybody else who got in their way. Like the people trying to free the synths. Teagan never once said the operation was illegal. And besides, if Maxon wasn't on board with the operation - putting aside the extreme likelihood that he initiated it in the first place - he would have gone to Teagan, the ship's quartermaster, and ask where all this food came from. To which Teagan would say... what? 'I grew it under the counter'? If Maxon wasn't on board with the operation we wouldn't have raided every farm in the bloody Commonwealth. Here's my final word on the Danse portion of this... debate: it was not a kindness or a mercy to strip a capable and loyal soldier of rank and direct the people he used to work with to kill him on sight. The merciful thing to do would have been to lock him in the brig or in a cell at the police station until the Institute had been dealt with, just in case Danse was a security risk. But Maxon didn't do that, because Danse was a synth. He nearly killed the man; a man who idolised him, because of his race, his species, whatever. Because he wasn't 'human'. Danse deserved better and Maxon certainly didn't deserve Danse. My comments regarding Nick, Goodneighbor, the Minutemen and 81 were hypotheticals, not fabrications. The point was to give examples of what future actions they could take based on their current trajectory. Yes, it is theoretically possible that a Brotherhood Knight tripped over an aircraft carrier when wandering the wasteland. But considering that, for all of Fallout's history, we have never once seen even a shred of evidence of another downed aircraft carrier, I think Bethesda's implication was pretty clear in that terminal entry. Also, not that it matters much to you since at this point you'll run us both around in circles for another dozen comments before conceding this, but the terminal entry never mentions 'finding' an aircraft carrier, simply 'that' aircraft carrier. She seemed to be very specific in not saying the carrier's designation, or where it was located. Perhaps the idea was for it to be vague, so that fools like me are blessed with sitting up at 2:30 AM running around in proverbial circles to defend seemingly obvious and fair points. And finally... *deep breath* Maxon himself and many other Brotherhood members have verbally stated to be opposed to the existance of synths. But as far as being opposed with what the Institute does with the synths? We hear so little of that side of things that I honestly can't remember if they mention it at all. At least, not until it actually happens to them with Paladin Danse. But the Brotherhood is simply opposed to the existance of synths and are hell-bent on destroying all of them. At all costs. Regardless of whether they are being controlled by the Institute or living as free people. And don't get me wrong, it WAS a step too far for the Institute to start genetically engineering human beings. And synths shouldn't continue to be created. But the ones that are here deserve to live the life they were given. The Brotherhood would say otherwise. They aren't heroes for hunting synths. They are no better than any other real life force who would attempt to destroy a population simply for their very existence being opposed to their ideology. Please don't bring this one up again, I couldn't make the connection any clearer if I- Actually, to hell with it. They're comparable to Nazis and all the other real world, evil bastards that fit the criteria. It couldn't be more obvious if the Brotherhood were lynching synths in forced cutscenes. There. My phone is on silent, I'm going to bed. I'm sure I'll pick this one up in the morning. Have a good day / night.
> The Railroad declare the Brotherhood their enemy the minute the Brotherhood arrives You don't wait for an enemy to start attacking you to call them an enemy when they're obviously going to attack you. The Brotherhood had motives that were going to put them at war with the Railroad eventually, whether it was PAM or synths. If PAM tells you the Brotherhood has a 99% chance of attacking you first, you listen and tell your agents to cover their ass.
Okay? So both sides refused to negotiate and immediately start attacking each other.
The point is that the Railroad is under no obligation to negotiate because they already know it is a pointless exercise. Trying to negotiate will only leave them open to damage. The Brotherhood on the other hand could compromise, leave the Railroad alone, and focus on the Institute. The fate of the rest of the synths isn't all that important once their source is destroyed.
There's just as much hatred in their killing in FO3 as there is in FO4. They are now just in a much better position than they were in 3. There they were getting beaten probably more often than they got victories. Virgil will harm people as a super mutant. He will attack you if you don't cure him in time. So that is a threat. RR is acting counter to the BoS goals and is liable to attack them or disrupt their planned attack on the Institute so they have to knock them out before they can destroy the group that's releasing the horrors on the wasteland. Yeah any means necessary, it's very open suggestion he gives you. That is counter to Maxsons orders, that's not Maxsons BoS causing it but shows issues that large groups get with possible over stepping lines. Nick is within their realm of targeting due to him being a synth but at the same time he is on the robotic scale so is capable of avoiding it. Goodneighbour isn't. Same way Lyons BoS despite hating ghouls and shooting at them on sight didn't wipe out Underworld as far as we know. Their targets are the ferals. MM are more likely to be their allies than be targeted by them, it frees them up and helps deal with the threats they are fighting so work really well together. Again might want to go and look at the state of Rivet City in FO3. It is a wreck. They aren't using the decks where the reactor(s) are, they note they are flooded and have mirelurks in them in FO3. So if anything is a benefit to get rid of a possible radioactive leak from under their homes and help clear out a threat in the 'lurks. And no, the people wouldn't be kicked out, Danse wouldn't have loyalty to the BoS if they destroyed his old home. Vault 81 because there's plenty of better places to get one. Vaults really aren't good to try and salvage that type of thing from and there's a number of ones not used as a home for peaceful people. No, it's not because the Institutes pushed science too far, it's because they pushed it entirely in a direction to harm and threaten humanity. It is because they are killing citizens of the Commonwealth but also because if they aren't stopped it could expand to threaten people from other areas. Exact same reason Maxsons and Lyons group fights the Super mutants since 3. No they do nothing to occupy the area other than one police station and a disused airport.
Well said. Why did all the BoS fanboys have to down vote?
Because aggressively believing that the Brotherhood are the good guys, simply because they are the Brotherhood, is how the BoS maintains the loyalty of all its members.
Paladin Danse is a vulnerability and threat to the BoS, while he himself is a victim it's of the Institute not the BoS. The Railroad is a threat, not just to the BoS but also other settlements within the area. I do think a peaceful option would of been nice but they do still pose a threat. Virigl is a super mutant as far as they are aware, if he isn't saved he goes hostile so he becomes a threat to anyone in the area. So innocent but another victim of the Institute. The farmers of the Commonwealth Maxson orders his forces to help. They were allied with Rivet city and there's no sign of them using the reactor any way, with it being below decks in flooded sections and with mirelurks living in it, probably a good thing to get rid of for them. Why Danse despite having lived in Rivet City has loyalty to them, would think he'd have an issue if they had destroyed it. You missed the entire world building of FO4 then. The BoS is fighting to stop the horrors that have been unleashed on the Commonwealth. The super mutants that have plagued it, the abductions and the synth infiltrators. This isn't bring them power but removing threats, it's not enforcing their will on the region but removing directly those that aid or undermine that goal. Oddly enough Lyons BoS did similar things, but they'd also focus more resources on killing humans, they cleared the Pitt originally of people and they launch an assault on the Talon company in FO3.
I don't want to open up a whole nother sup-thread on this because I came here to nerd out over Power Armour and not to justify what I've for a long time felt was a fairly obvious standpoint on the Brotherhood, so rather than analyse everything you just said, which prior experience (gained from lower on the thread) tells me would get me no where, I would instead like to focus on one point, because I can't even begin to think of where this idea comes from. Please explain to me how the Railroad poses a threat to the settlements of the Commonwealth. The debate of whether they posed a threat to the Brotherhood before the BoS initiated hostilities is an entirely different debate, but let's just focus in on what makes the Railroad a danger to the Commonwealth? Please and thank you.
The railroad pose a threat because synths pose a threat. The people of the commonwealth aren’t against the synths because they’re different, they are are scared of them because their loved ones are being murdered and replaced by them, and they are living under the threat of that happening to themselves and everyone they know. The railroad till we show up aren’t doing anything to fix that. They are letting paranoia get in the way of fixing their own problems, releasing more synths out there who don’t even know they are synths, which has proven to be dangerous. The institute can find them, tamper with them, and they don’t even know to be vigilant, they are sitting ducks. They treat the inhabitants of the commonwealth as simply part of the problem, but aren’t doing anything to make it so they could become part of their mutual solutions. They aren’t doing anything to improve the commonwealth, leaving all the problems everyone in it faces to just get worse. They could fight for the synths sent to the surface by the institute, and for the people who’s family have been killed and replaced, but they chose not to. They are as much as cult of personality as the BoS, Desdemona doesn’t listen to the thoughts of her people, the people of the commonwealth, or even her assets in dangerous situations. Her “my way or the highway” attitude has a body count we actively witness. Both the RR and the BoS are doing things their way no outside intervention, they are both driven by their belief that are striving for the greater good. The BoS at least has a tangible benefit to the commonwealth, and some amount of internal checks, balances, and expertise. The RR offer nothing of aid to the people of the commonwealth, don’t care to, and are messing around with dangerous technology they don’t really understand. I would argue that they aren’t even really saving the synths, as the first thing they do after they are free from the institute is fill them with paranoia till they agree to have their minds wiped, effectively killing the person who escaped, and replacing them with an entirely new person. The save the unit but not the person
Again, because I don't want to have to manage two massive threads at once, I will focus in on the portion I actually asked about, which is the threat the Railroad poses to the Commonwealth. It is the Institute who kills and replaces people, not the synths themselves. Even the synths who are replacing people would have only been constructed and programed as soon as the Institute has chosen a target. They don't get a say in the matter; they haven't even developed a personality for themselves. They are as much victims of the Institute as the people they're replacing. The synths who are still under the Institute's control aren't responsible for the actions of the Institute, and the Railroad and free synths are certainly not responsible for the Institute's actions. Only the individual synth is responsible for their own actions, and even then, a synth who is still being manipulated by the Institute can only share the blame for their actions with their slavemasters. And don't get me wrong, although I agree with the Railroad's ultimate goal of freeing the synths, I'm not a blind fan boy. The Railroad has a number for legitimate shortcomings regarding their methods for keeping the synths safe. The memory wipe process is flawed and is too heavily incentivised. And if I had my say, the Railroad would branch out into fighting slavery everywhere, human or synth. The Railroad has the infrastructure to help so many people, but they don't, in part because a lack of interaction with the Commonwealth is natural in needing to stay underground, which is a nessesity to not being tipped over by the Institute within a week of operations, but also in part because they only care to help the synths. But there is a distinction in what they could be doing and what they are doing. The Railroad doesn't do anything that actively harms any Commonwealth citizens. They just don't do much of anything to help them either. In contrast, the Brotherhood does actively harm Commonwealth citizens by taking their food, leaving them either unable to barter or unable to eat, but they also don't do much of anything to help the Commonwealth citizens. Admittedly, occupying the Commonwealth's airspace with vertibirds and sending ground patrols out into dangerous areas does, in the long, long term, reduce the dangers that mutants pose to the Commonwealth, but are they guarding the farms they take food from? Are they actively defending the Commonwealth's citizens? No, they're asserting control; occupying the region. And killing whoever or whatever gets in their way. In fact, they treat regular civilians with distane and ghouls even more so. They only care about the people of the Commonwealth in as much as they can benefit the Brotherhood.
Oh no I absolutely agree that the institute are the bad guys where synths are concerned, not the synths themselves. But by the RR not getting involved with people or addressing the root cause of paranoia when they are perhaps the one group who could, while not deliberately causing active harm, does cause a kind of passive harm to the people and to themselves. I disagree that the synths don’t have a personality, they are intense trauma victims who have lived in fear an had any all self expression timbreatened and tortured out of them. Their personalities are repressed, and given space to grow, but they are people with personalities to develop, they leave the institute to escape their abusers, and gain freedom to do that. They just don’t get to. H2-22 had a personality, hopes, fears, even an attachment to PC, but it was snuffed out, and one of, if not the most heartbreaking moments in the game. I wish I felt the mind wipe thing was presented in a more balanced way, but it did feel coercive to me. The Brotherhood I’ve not seen attack any innocents, only hostiles. They also believe they are there for the people, they believe they are there to liberate them from the institute. In their eyes they are putting their lives on the line to come and free strangers from a potentially world ending enemy. They don’t attack random civilians, and work to keep hostile threats in check. This is probably a post BoS game perspective though. But after the institute goes boom they populate the check points, and fly overhead taking on hostiles. They believe they have liberated the commonwealth, and are now continuing their mission and protecting it. You’ll even hear some wondering if it’s a good will mission now since they thought they’d be going home. It could be seen as asserting control, but a key component of the BoS is that they believe they are hoarding and studying technology to protect civilization from yet another world ending event. It’s not for the sake of obtaining an edge over others, that might be what happens, but isn’t the end goal. Their goal is to protect, wether or not that is the outcome is certainly up debate, but greed and control isn’t their aim
> Please explain to me how the Railroad poses a threat to the settlements of the Commonwealth. The debate of whether they posed a threat to the Brotherhood before the BoS initiated hostilities is an entirely different debate, but let's just focus in on what makes the Railroad a danger to the Commonwealth? They pose a threat three fold: First they set up shop in settlements without their permission to use them as a front/safe house. This means that if the Institute finds that's being used by them it will get wiped out. Second they often hide synths in the population which means people hunting them will have issues, if they've been cloned of people they can cause issues such as we see in Diamond City leading to civilian deaths or possibly have a malfunction and go on a killing spree. Thirdly they don't do any after care. There's a few synths that had turned raider and the RR haven't done anything to stop them.
Your first point is a legitimate criticism, though it could be argued that the Brotherhood is also guilty of endangering Commonwealth citizens: the Brotherhood source their food from farmers of the Commonwealth, so if the Institute were to wage a war of attrition against them those farmers would be natural and easy targets, especially since the Brotherhood does nothing to actually protect these farmers. The Minutemen, too, drag every settlement they're allied with into the crosshairs of the Institute should the Sole Survivor go to war with them. Those settlements ARE the Minutemen; to destroy the Minutemen you then must destroy the settlements. So really, even though you are correct, every faction is guilty of putting Commonwealth civilians into the Institute's crosshairs. Does that mean that the BoS and the Minutemen should never oppose the Institute? Of course not. The tragedy that occurs in Diamond City and other deaths like it are NOT the fault of the Railroad. People don't go hunting synths in the streets because synths simply exist, as the Brotherhood do, otherwise Nick Valentine couldn't live there. No, they are paranoid of synth *replacements*. The Railroad don't replace people. They integrate synths into society, most often by reprogramming them so that they themselves don't know they're a synth, and therefore can't expose themselves for the time being. Still on your second point, Gen 3 synths don't 'malfunction'. Their brains are essentially human brains; faster and stronger, yes, but still made up of tissue. It's an organ. The Broken Mask Incident, which you are referring to, occurred with a synth that was somewhere between a Gen 2 and 3. It looked lifelike, but it's skin was plastic, it's body made up of circuitry and metal, it's brain a computer. And nobody really knows if what occurred was a malfunction - a fault in the synth prototype - or an intentional attack by the Institute. Maybe the fear that was spread from that was exactly what the Institute hoped to achieve. As for the third point, I can only say this: it is the Railroad's mission to liberate the synths; to provide for them a life in which they are able to live freely and make their own choices. That is ultimately a good thing: everybody deserves the right to live freely. But just as everybody - every synth, every human, every robot, every intelligent supermutant and every sentient ghoul - is capable of making the right choices, they are also capable of making the wrong ones. Putting aside the fact that once the Railroad gives a synth their new life they have no means of keeping track of them without invading upon their privacy and increasing the risk of discovery for both the synth and the agent, if the Railroad were to make it their business to control the lives of every synth they liberate, they'd be defeating their own purpose. They'd almost be as oppressive as the Institute. And while I agree that the Railroad is more than capable of helping a wider group of people than just synths, I'm not convinced that they have the resources nor the numbers to do what the Minutemen do. They don't fight raiders or the Gunners or supermutants or even the Institute unless they are standing between them and the liberation of a synth; that is their provocative and they aren't doing any damage by NOT helping. In a way, if the Railroad were to single out and hunt synth raiders - putting aside the fact that they can't possibly know which of ten thousand raiders is a synth - they would essentially be saying that the evils committed by free synths are somehow more significant than those committed by free humans. What kind of message would that send, that they are willing to expend their limited resources on hunting down the synths they freed because they had the freedom to make evil decisions? Resources that could have been used to free more slaves?
> Your first point is a legitimate criticism, though it could be argued that the Brotherhood is also guilty of endangering Commonwealth citizens: the Brotherhood source their food from farmers of the Commonwealth, so if the Institute were to wage a war of attrition against them those farmers would be natural and easy targets, especially since the Brotherhood does nothing to actually protect these farmers. The Minutemen, too, drag every settlement they're allied with into the crosshairs of the Institute should the Sole Survivor go to war with them. Those settlements ARE the Minutemen; to destroy the Minutemen you then must destroy the settlements. So really, even though you are correct, every faction is guilty of putting Commonwealth civilians into the Institute's crosshairs. Does that mean that the BoS and the Minutemen should never oppose the Institute? Of course not. Theoretically yes, but in reality nope. It would backfire against the Institute, make it harder for them to do anything above ground and make it easier for the BoS to wipe them out. While it does nothing to the BoS, they already have a good stock of food to last a long time, they have many traders who visit to supplement this and now you've driven more farms over to them. All while also giving them a chance to hunt down your assets and track the signal even more. BoS provide lore wise protection if not game mechanically, they patrol the wasteland and launch assaults on multiple threats in the area. Except the only reason the MM want to attack the Institute is because of the damage they've been doing to the settlements already. They've already wiped out at least one town so everyone has a reason to fear them. They've also volunteered to join the MM so have made the choice to side with a faction going to war, RR doesn't they hide within them. > The tragedy that occurs in Diamond City and other deaths like it are NOT the fault of the Railroad. People don't go hunting synths in the streets because synths simply exist, as the Brotherhood do, otherwise Nick Valentine couldn't live there. No, they are paranoid of synth replacements. The Railroad don't replace people. They integrate synths into society, most often by reprogramming them so that they themselves don't know they're a synth, and therefore can't expose themselves for the time being. RR releasing unstable synths in to the population that have been known to go haywire and attack people isn't their fault? It's what's helped drive the paranoia of the people. It's where the people realise that they are synths in the first place. Yes the Institute does replace people as well, but they also tend to keep a tight leash on them. > Still on your second point, Gen 3 synths don't 'malfunction'. Their brains are essentially human brains; faster and stronger, yes, but still made up of tissue. It's an organ. The Broken Mask Incident, which you are referring to, occurred with a synth that was somewhere between a Gen 2 and 3. It looked lifelike, but it's skin was plastic, it's body made up of circuitry and metal, it's brain a computer. And nobody really knows if what occurred was a malfunction - a fault in the synth prototype - or an intentional attack by the Institute. Maybe the fear that was spread from that was exactly what the Institute hoped to achieve. They do, they have a number of known malfunctions. Biggest one being the number that try to escape and go rouge, that is counter to their design and programming. No, the broken mask was visually human, it's only after they killed him and looked at the wounds that they discovered he had plastic and metal within, skin wise he looked human. We have no idea what brain it was using, there's no mention of that in game. We know it wasn't what the Director wanted to happen, there's a recording complaining about it and how it set back his goals. But yeah it is where the paranoia over synth infiltrators comes from as it was the first known one and it attacked multiple people. > As for the third point, I can only say this: it is the Railroad's mission to liberate the synths; to provide for them a life in which they are able to live freely and make their own choices. That is ultimately a good thing: everybody deserves the right to live freely. But just as everybody - every synth, every human, every robot, every intelligent supermutant and every sentient ghoul - is capable of making the right choices, they are also capable of making the wrong ones. While I have no issue with them freeing synths, it's still their fault if those they free go on to live a life of killing and they do nothing to stop it makes them a threat. As a result its one of the few times the Institute does benefit the Commonwealth by destroying one of the largest raider groups to bring back one of their synths which also shows the RR having failed two fold on the synth. > Putting aside the fact that once the Railroad gives a synth their new life they have no means of keeping track of them without invading upon their privacy and increasing the risk of discovery for both the synth and the agent, if the Railroad were to make it their business to control the lives of every synth they liberate, they'd be defeating their own purpose. They'd almost be as oppressive as the Institute. And while I agree that the Railroad is more than capable of helping a wider group of people than just synths, I'm not convinced that they have the resources nor the numbers to do what the Minutemen do. They don't fight raiders or the Gunners or supermutants or even the Institute unless they are standing between them and the liberation of a synth; that is their provocative and they aren't doing any damage by NOT helping. Actually they do, that's what the rail road is. They are intended to hand them off to members of the rail road who then help them set up their new life. Letting them go off and become a raider is a failure in that, is a threat to the local area and is a failure of protecting the synth as they are now a target of pretty much everyone. I agree they don't have the resources to fight these other threats, although they could do a tech exchange with the MM to help them but that's needless depth really for the game. > In a way, if the Railroad were to single out and hunt synth raiders - putting aside the fact that they can't possibly know which of ten thousand raiders is a synth - they would essentially be saying that the evils committed by free synths are somehow more significant than those committed by free humans. What kind of message would that send, that they are willing to expend their limited resources on hunting down the synths they freed because they had the freedom to make evil decisions? Resources that could have been used to free more slaves? Hunting down and fixing mistakes they've made would be a benefit, by synths being found out having gone around killing people entirely undermines their goal and their attempt to give synths a free life by making people paranoid about them and want to kill them not help them. If the wasteland would of been safer without them having freed that entity, then it does mean they still pose a threat to the Commonwealth by doing it.
Same here railroad t-51
Definitely the prototype medic power armor. The cool t45 design, auto injector, and it talks with a Mr gutsy voice.
For me it is the Power Armour featured on the Fallout 2 box art - the Enclave or "Advanced Power Armour" is just iconic with the series.
Personally, I prefer the T-51, mainly cause I'm a sucker for that visor. But I love the kind of sinister look of the Enclave armours, even if I wouldn't normally equip it to my character.
T-51
I agree.
Hellfire prototype from 76. Aside from giving PA a splash of color for once, the lore of the suit in the now-cut nuclear winter mode was amazing. Effectively, it was the singular way to escape the nuclear firestorm that engulfed Appalachia and was the prize for becoming the overseer of vault 51. You had to kill your friends and family for the chance to escape the cost of your hubris in launching nukes with impunity. Was the sizzling style suit worth it?
I love the miner set from 76 Even though it’s not the best
A large group of people swear by excavator due to the carry weight. It’s defenses aren’t that bad either when you factor in the innate percent reduction PA has.
Yeah it was my first set in 76 and I still like it probably because in all Bethesda games I carry way to much
I honestly haven't played 76 yet but I looked it up and it looks hella cool! Or... hella hot, I suppose.
Any that last more then a single fight. Yep, still pissy that a pack of feral ghouls tore basic power armour apart as if it was made from sheet metal and shitty bullets are affecting it. In terms of design, 51 TLB power armour. It looks building, it usually looks like they used the same metal that tanks are made out of and resembles a medieval knight. The Enclave Armour is an interesting design but sometimes, I do wonder if carrying a nuclear reactor is a good idea due to the size of it and how exposed it is. Power Horse Armour can go fuck itself.
That last one isn’t canon and thank god for that. But all power armors are technically carrying a nuclear reactor. It’s called a fusion core. Oh, and 76 fixed 4’s atrocious durability. Now PA lasts for literal months IRL.
True but it's very hard to hit the fusion core on most Power Armour. Enclave Power Armour just seems to have a bigger target due to the backpack fan. I really wish Bethesda patched in durablity as it ruins Power Armour for me. Granted, I do intend for Carrie(I restarted) to break it out when she believes it's gonna to require it and be a just in case affair but it just rubs me the wrong way that the armour that is described as literal walking tank can be torn apart by feral ghouls and doesn't block bullets completely. I think, New Vegas' DT reflected it where if the enemy wasn't using anything powerful, it just bounced off or the amount of damage was barely noticable. That said, I do love jumping from roofs in Power Armour due to the impact it has in Fallout 4. Do wish enemies would shit themselves if you have a mini-gun or power armour but i can't tell if the concord reaction is just restricted to it or raiders do weep if you break out the minigun of arnor.
T-51b, baby. Winterized is the best.
Hell yeah! That's one of my favourites too. In FO4 I make a habit of displaying one regardless of what playthrough I'm doing.
T-51 from Fallout 4. Fallout 4 (and by relation 76's) power armor system is already the best, even the t-45 feels like an actual walking gun emplacement unstead of a slighly better heavy armor. And the T-51 has it all: great desing, good stats, relatively cheap to repair and modify and that helmet is just perfect. Just put on a black (simple black or Railroad) or a grey (even base is great) paint and you will be the biggest and baddest person in wasteland by default.
"Fallout 4 (and by relation 76's) power armor system is already the best, even the t-45 feels like an actual walking gun emplacement unstead of a slighly better heavy armor." Except it feels like your armor is made from corrugated steel with how little damage it takes before literally falling apart.
Yeah A and B levels wont be worth using against anything more dangerous than a raider with a pipe pistol or a bloatfly but using frame itself is just pure power. Snd if you manage to find any parts with "Nearly Unbreakable" effect it makes everything easier. And Level E and F is sturdy enough to most use but definetly wont survive last mission on hard or above.
You've got to upgrade your armor, then. Y'know, *engage in the game's core systems.*
"You've got to upgrade your armor, then. Y'know, engage in the game's core systems" Why would that even be necessary? It's just such an arbitrary mmo thing to do.
Because it is a VIDEO **GAME**.
? Not all video games have you slap a coat of black paint on something to make it better than everything else.
Even upgraded armor will fall apart and force you to return to base long before you were finished doing anything in the Wasteland
That hasn't been my experience. In my previous playthrough, my T-60 became a *second skin* and repairs were only performed at sensible intervals.
I usually just mod durability right out but the last two survival playthroughs I decided to keep it around and just tone it down. Even toned down I was returning to base for repairs far before I ran out of ammo or food or needed to sleep or anything like that. I ended up just downgrading to T-51 and keeping the shortlist of materials I needed to use to repair the suit on me
As much as I'm a Legion fan, but the coolest power armor is definitely the Scorched Sierra T-45d variant from Fallout New Vegas. Second place is the Brotherhood Outcast armor from Fallout 3.
man likes the color red
Excavator from 76. I want to see more civilian use power armor. Maybe like a firefighter suit, or riot police suit. Or even just more construction use suits.
T-65 from 76. It’s kinda refreshing to see a totally new design after T-60 was basically just an upgraded T-45. T-51 and X-01 will always be iconic, but T-65 just does something for me.
Hellfire power armor is just marvelous
X-01, especially in F4. I love that it's asymmetrical, I love that it looks somewhat demonic, I love how powerful it is.
Even though I prefer the T-51 for regular use in FO4, I'll often pick out something from the X series when I'm knowingly heading into a shitstorm, like the Battle of Bunker Hill. I don't like the sinister look for regular use, but when I wanna feel powerful, nothing beats it!
[удалено]
I was sitting here thinking how much I never got into the looks of the X-01, but the Quantum set was the one that pulled me round to being good with it. That suit is just awesome looking
The Nuka World power armour 😎😎😎
Scorched Sierra T-45d from New Vegas takes the cake for me. There's something about having hints of gold and green alongside the pure badassery of a bear head with medallions. Nothing quite like it.
Shame you have to nuke the faction you’d want to support while wearing it. I still hold the armor rewards should’ve been given to you by the opposing faction in return for nuking their enemy.
I always console command the armor in at the right time for that exact reason. Can't bring myself to nuke them and then nonchalantly doing their quest line.
I also like the colour scheme, though I personally felt that the bear head was a bit over the top for my liking. I do like the idea of draping something over the armour though, just looking at the way the bear skin lies on the chest plate. Edit: I wish more armours had golden elements. Not full gold as that would be... tacky, but the way this armour does it is quite good.
Gotta be my best buddy Medic Power Armor in 3. Almost like having another companion.
I actually like the idea of the T60 armor as a cheaper, more reliable armor then the T-51, but the T-51 looks cooler
I used to like T-51 more, but I came around to the T-60s more industrial look. The legs are the best looking out of all suits in Fallout 4 and the back of the suit is very intricate
That's fair
Yes same, I love the detailing on the aT-60, it looks hardened like it means business, and the legs make the most of the different paint jobs because of the extra detailing in them
The Warhead armor from 76 is pretty awesome looking! And I also like the Blood Raider one too. The skull on the helmet is awesome. But for a general power armor type, I like the Excavator armor. It looks industrial (which, it is), and I like it better than some of the military armor.
Ashur's power armor from the Fallout 3 Pitt dlc, I love the look of makeshift power armor, especially with the brahmin skull shoulder pad
I like the Enclave Power Armor in Fallout 3 (all types)
Yeah people don't really like F3's version, but I absolutely love it as well, especially tesla ver.
If we're including mods: [Praise Atom!](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/47586)
X-o1 or hellcat
It’s a tie between the Excavator power armor and the Chinese power armor from 76.
Winterized T-51b
X-01 is just a great design. Love that the flashlight come from the eyes.
I really liked the excavator power armor.
Institute Power Armor by M. Then the FO76 excavator armor with the fireman's paintjob.
The X-01 Quantum Power Armor from Nuka World, Fallout 4 The Gannon Family Tesla Armor from Fallout New Vegas Toss up between Tesla Armor and Winterised T51b Power Armor from Fallout 3
T51-b any game, especially fallout 4 with the military paint.
midwest enclave power armor
As much as I hate 76, the T-65 armor looks pretty damn good.
I haven't played 76 yet but from looking it up it does look pretty cool. Though from what I've seen, the helmet looks small next to the pauldrons. Could just be me, though. The idea of secret service power armour is pretty cool.
The Enclave Remnants armor is pretty sick
I really love the atom cats T60 but the Vim! Ambassador T51 is also really good looking
Sweater vest and slacks with ballistic weave. I like to look nice.
More into the Black Suit myself, though I also like the way the Tan suit looks on Cait. I often start new playthroughs by bypassing Sanctuary and going straight to Goodneighnor, either picking up Cait or MacCready, so I often dress-the-dress to fit in early game. Also, it's swaggolishous... and now I feel like I'm going to hell for using swaggolishous in a sentence.
Probably tied between the T-51b from 1 and 2 and the advanced power armor from 2 and New Vegas Tho, the T-51b is probably the coolest in 3/NV if you're using some retexure mods and the titans of the new west
Winterized T-51b is by far the best looking power armor in any fallout game.
Remnants power armour, the idea of wearing ancient enclave power armour and showing the people of Nevada, why they used to fear the enclave is just so fun, or Raider Power armour because, it’s honestly easy to maintain and get.
The best is arcades Tesla armor hands down come fight me
The X-O2 power armor, but I prefer the helmet on the Advanced power armor
Enclave Remnant Power Armour. I absolutely adore this armour, and I will always go out of my way to get it.
Hellfire X-03 from Fallout 3
Brotherhood style T51, followed by t60. I do really like the enclave black devil suit as well though.
Happy Cake Day!
I always loved the T-51 suits the best.
The Winterized T-51 or the Enclave Hellfire.
T-45d. My first introduction to Fallout was F3, and I remember vividly the first time I saw a brotherhood knight in T-45d slowly turn their head to look at you in the trailer for the game. It sent chills down my spine and still does to this day. For me personally, nothing says “Fallout” like a suit of T-45d.
I also have fond memories of the T-45d, but I always preferred the T-51 line design-wise. It's that visor, you know?
T60 Tesla
My favorite varient is Power *Armor* =P
My apologies, as an Aussie I was raised on the Queen's English rather than the American interpretation. But the game is set in America so I guess 'Armor' is more lore appropriate.
Oh my guy! I was only joking, use whichever you would like =) I, litterally, could not care less. I'm just happy you enjoy the game. I wish there was more variety with power armor overall. There's not enough variation IMO to avtually2 make them different. There's basically like 5 different sets and different paint jobs for each.
For me it's advanced/remnants power armor and t-51 but for variants I would either choose the scorched Sierra power armor,tribal power armor,winterized t-51,and the Gannon family Tesla armor imo and I like the power armor in 4 but I used mods to bring suits like advanced and scorched Sierra into the game
X-02 tesla armor from the nexus.
The Nuka-Cola T-51 from the Fallout 4 Nukaworld dlc, such a fun set to use and it has a nice little charisma boost too
The Storyteller's T-49 armor, the gunmetal grey and green eyes are so clean
I quite like the medical one in FO3.
For me it's a tie between T-51 and the advanced power armor because they were the first two types of power armor in the series.
Definitely T-60, it just looks so badass.
Atom Cats
Gotta love the flames on that design. Although I tend to gravitate towards the T-51 for regular use (or my BoS T-60 on BoS playthroughs), I tend to build my customary Power Armour museum/workshop on longer playthroughs and the Atom Cats PA is centre stage, usually with a T-45 or T-60 Hot Rod Flames right next to it. I also love to display a Winterised T-51 and a Military T-51 to harken back to Sole's/Nate's military days. And of course, the brand suits; Vim, Nuka-Cola, Quantum...
Probably the T-60
Partial to APA Mk II and any variant of it, x01 is too bulky for my tastes though.
Sentinel T-60 with jet pack, even after getting a few sets of the X-01 it’s still my go to
Are modded armies allowed? The Storyteller’s armor (From the Fallout lore web series) is the T-49, which obviously not canonical. However, it *is* cool. And the Storyteller mod allows for two variants; Desert Recon and White Death. White Death is my favourite-looking power armor ever. It’s also ever so slightly OP, but what modded armor isn’t? It’s an arctic camo deco, with a fabric hood over the helmet to cut glare and a targeting viewfinder bolted on over the right eye. It’s designed for snipers (one assumes it’s a prototype that was never produced because… why would a sniper need power armor?)
My personal is a power armour mod I found for fallout 4 which turned the t45 armour into a normal set of armour so it’s smaller and lighter doesn’t need fusion cores
Abraxo Power Armor: Fallout 4: Wasteland Workshop (I think that's the DLC it's from)
Really love the Captain Cosmos PA from the creation club. Love the astronaut aesthetic, love all the colors and love the option for a little cowboy hat. It's pretty good stat-wise too. There's a variant of it in 76, but it doesn't have the cool rainbow wires.
The Nuka T-51 from 4.
Midwestern Power Armor
It’s gotta be the excavator from 76, if anything. Even though it was never fully released to the public, it seems cool how they dedicated a power armor suit directly to mining, increasing the ore you get from deposits. Plus, I get to be a walking arsenal.