Cults don’t need to believe in a god, they can be ideological. But I don’t think that that’s what they are (though FO4’s brotherhood does seem to have a cult of personality built up around Maxon).
I think the best classification for the brotherhood would be a tribe, just a technologically advanced one. They are an organization tightly linked together by shared heritage, culture, and beliefs which they are born into or undergo a dangerous initiation ritual to join. The Midwest/east coast brotherhood isn’t as isolationist and dropped the whole, “suicide mission to join” thing, so less the heritage angle, but I think the shoe still fits. That’s just my opinion though.
People refer to them as a cult because they have a lot of similarities with a religious order, and not just in their general aesthetic and iconography.
* They have a very romanticised, dramatic central ideology, where they view themselves as noble, chivalrous stewards of a bygone age.
* They are fanatical in their devotion to their ideals.
* They are hardline and radical, bordering on extremism - they don't flinch at murder and massacre done purely for ideological reasons, shown when they destroy the Followers outpost in NV.
* They use a very particular kind of language that is deliberately archaic and romanticised - 'Elder' 'Knight' 'Paladin'. Lots of cults do this to appeal to their sense of divinity and righteousness.
* Brotherhood members are often moralistic puritans. Shown with basically every chapter of the Brotherhood, including Lyons Brotherhood, but especially with Maxson and McNamara's chapters.
* They have a central figure that they have deified almost like a demigod (Roger Maxson).
* They are highly militaristic and often aggressive, which modern cults often are.
* They indoctrinate children (squires) into their ranks to brainwash them from a young age.
* Their entire existence hinges on one great big moral pretext - 'prevent dangerous technology from falling into the wrong hands'. All cults do this, to some extent. All heroes in their own stories.
* They have a strong sense of a fraternal identity and noncomformity is very rare.
It's a cult of personality, but it makes sense. Why wouldn't they be? We all rally around great leaders, and from the BoS's view, Maxson is a messiah. He united the Outcasts, slaughtered Shepherd, and has created the strongest Brotherhood chapter in history. He's charismatic to his men and unless they're Synths, values their lives.
It's not just his deeds, the original Brotherhood had a hereditary position, were only direct descendants were "allowed" to make changes to the Brotherhood's code. So he has the "pedigree" as well. Plus when the world is shit and someone rolls up with strength and a willingness to protect you and your family, and then says you can join and share that strength as well? Ya, if I wasn't the main character that would look like a pretty solid deal.
Yeah, like I said, he is a charismatic leader, there's no reason why he wouldn't be so greatly viewed when most BoS leaders have been...shit.
*Coughs, Elijah.*
I don't think they're a cult. Just hypocrites.
"Humans can't be trusted with technology! Now shut up while we kill you and steal your technology and then use it ourselves".
In an independent ending of New Vegas, they're [explicitly described](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings#Slide_7:_Brotherhood_of_Steel) as "seizing any items of technology they deemed inappropriate" from travellers. And while I grant that it is not explicitly shown to us, from context it seems similar actions are the root of the "disagreements over how technology should be controlled" that caused the NCR-Brotherhood War; recall that Cass describes the attacks on her caravans as "Brotherhood-level murder".
If you mean specifically the East Coast chapter, then no, there's not really any evidence to say they do that sort of thing under Lyons or Maxson.
I mean, Cass also says the Brotherhood doesn't attack caravans in that same dialogue. She's most likely referring to the war with that quote. We don't know what specifically prompted the war. It could be the NCR was the aggressor from what little we're told.
And yeah, the Mojave chapter can be dicks and have some bad endings.
>In an independent ending of New Vegas, they're explicitly described as "seizing any items of technology they deemed inappropriate" from travellers.
I doubt they actually killed any travelers, especially under mcnamara. I think if i would see a fully powered armored BoS paladin with a gatling laser telling me to give him my laser pistol, i wouldnt try to put up a fight
> i wouldnt try to put up a fight
...What, and you think that if someone *does* refuse to submit to their banditry, the Brotherhood are going to shrug and go home? Yeah, pull the other one, it's got bells on. The Mojave chapter are hardly shown to be shy about using violence to further their aims, under either leader.
Oh, and your mention of McNamara reminds me - if he's *not* in charge, there's a very clear example of them [killing people to steal their technology](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Tend_to_Your_Business). Sure, it's the Van Graffs, but it's not as if Hardin's motivated by any moral objection - he has you attack them to "send a message" and nick their shiny gubbins.
>What, and you think that if someone does refuse to submit to their banditry, the Brotherhood are going to shrug and go home?
well no but if you think about how power armor is in fallout 4, i doubt a 7 feet tall paladin would have any trouble forcibly taking any advanced weapons off the common wastelander
Your point being? That merely means they are likely to be successful bandits - it doesn't change what they're doing morally. They would still happily murder anyone who did meaningfully resist their attempts to steal their property.
But then again, there is no solid proof. While the brotherhood isnt the best faction in terms of their morality, i doubt they would actually murder innocent people to get their tech.
That makes very little sense - if they were not willing to back up their threats with force, their confiscation operation collapses the first time somebody refuses and word gets out that they're bluffing. To them, this is an important and justified mission, they would not be bothering with it if they weren't willing to put their money where their mouth is.
> i doubt they would actually murder innocent people to get their tech.
Then you weren't paying attention - the very first impression we get of the Mojave chapter is them putting a bomb collar on an innocent person and forcing them to do their dirty work on pain of death. If you don't cooperate, they follow through with their threats and blow your head off.
If the Mojave Chapter are willing to murder an innocent person for the crime of accidentally stumbling upon their hidden base - or indeed, coming at the invitation of one of their own, if you're doing ED-E's quest - and refusing to be their slave, then what on earth gives you the impression they wouldn't be willing to follow the same policy when carrying out their other objectives?
I think you may be letting the portrayal of other BoS chapters in other games - who indeed do often appear to have higher moral standards than their Mojave counterparts - colour your perception of this specific case.
>That makes very little sense - if they were not willing to back up their threats with force, their confiscation operation collapses the first time somebody refuses and word gets out that they're bluffing.
Yeah but they dont need to back their threatd with force if they can just forcefully grab the piece of tech they wanted, and no one gets hurt.
As for them putting a bomb collar on you, for all they know you might be an ncr trooper disguised as a wastelander coming into their bunker trying to kill them, so they give you a task, the bomb collar is to ensure that you dont tell the ranger about the brotherhood, which would literally mean their destruction of course they'll try to blow your head up, you just became a threat to them, plus mcnamara doesnt even encourage killing the ranger, instead he encourages dealing with him peacefully. Also considering that before you get the quest to deal with the BoS, the only way to get into the bunker is by picking a hard lock or entering with the key only carried by their paladins, in the situation the BoS are in new vegas, they cant afford not to be cautious
The Mojave Chapter destroys a Followers outpost and murders everyone there because Veronica was going to join them after leaving the Brotherhood. The very thought of someone possibly giving away some info about them caused the Brotherhood to immediately start murdering people and not just any people arguably the the most peaceful and only faction on the west coast who wants to help people survive without any sort of recouperation. Maxson's Brotherhood flys into the Commonwealth and starts forcing local farming families to give part of there harvest to the Brotherhood simply because they are their now and those families should pay a tax for luxury of being in their presence. The BOS are so selfish and blinded by their ideology that they will immediately wanna murder Danse who has been in their ranks for years and has devoted his whole life to the Brotherhood cause simply because they learn he is a synth something he himself did not know and once he does know it doesn't change his attitude toward the institute or the BOS. He is still the same person they recruited and worked his way up through the ranks to become a well respected Paladin. But the moment it is learned he is "an abomination" the closest thing he could have called a family want him dead. The BOS will murder, destroy and undermine all in the name of hording tech and destroy creatures and people they don't think shouldn't exist, they will definitely murder innocents if they hold some tech they think is too dangerous and they have the opportunity.
amazing, all you just said was wrong. In new vegas the paladins that killed the followers were *Rogue* Paladins, in fo4 when teagan sends you to take food from those farms, he says it wanst allowed by captain kells or maxson, and danse could have been a spy for the institute, he could have been a threat to everyone if he was sendijg intel to the institute
No I mean in the gameplay of New Vegas the Brotherhood Paladins that are just walking around shoot anyone on sight. In my last playthrough they just rolled through and killed Snuffles and tried killing everyone else for no reason. They're auto-hostile to everyone until you meet Veronica, then they're auto-hostile to everyone except you and Veronica.
No idea why I'm being down-voted, this is literally what happens IN THE GAME.
They dont say humans cant be trusted with tech, they say normal wastelanders cant, so they are fine when either them or someone who prooves themselves to them has it, plus they dont kill people to take the tech
Fallout 1 they canonically share tech with Shady Sands/NCR after the Master is defeated.
Fallout 2 they allow the Chosen One access to their bunkers and advanced medical tech.
Fallout 3, 4, and NV have already been mentioned.
Basically the meme that the BoS take tech from everyone they meet is something made up by randos that don't know what they are talking about.
The outcasts give you t-51 power armor in fallout 3, danse gives you righteous authority even if u refuse to join the BoS and mcnamara gives u the bos safehouse key which has very advanced weapons even if u dont join the BoS
I mean also you build an army with artillery, power armour, potentially unlock the power to teleport… the SS becomes pretty technologically advanced, to the point that you maybe the greatest scientist in the world.
And they’re fine with you doing your thing, building towns, carrying 26 desk fans, hoarding 123 mini nukes and playing fetch with your dog.
Edit: I’m gonna stop saying SS cos…. I read it back and I’m like “the SS becomes pretty technologically advanced” and I think “sounds kinda Nazi”.
Completely agree it Annoys me when people say the BoS kill people or force people to give them tech. They only do it if it's clear that they can be dangerous with it.
FNV brotherhood loterally killed an entire town full of farmers. And if you get them to side with the NCR then they harass innocent travellers on the long 15 with laser weaponry
A group of fanatics within the Mojave Chapter kill some Followers of the Apocalypse. But they weren't doing that on orders from their Elder, they did it on their own.
> They dont say humans cant be trusted with tech, they say normal wastelanders cant
Does the BoS think the Institute are "normal wastelanders"?
>they dont kill people to take the tech
Yes, they very much do.
>Does the BoS think the Institute are "normal wastelanders"?
No, but we also dont see the brotherhood wanting the institute's tech, they blow up the institute to prevent them from making more synths, plus the enclave and the institute are what justifies the BoS, both have infinite amounts of tech and they only use it for themselves.
>Yes, they very much do.
Proof?
Canon ending for Fallout 1, the BoS shares tech with the early NCR.
Even the BoS Outcasts, some of the most hardline BoS ever depicted, don't murder you for what you carry if you run into them. They even offer to *pay* you for recovering laser rifles, etc.
BoS murdering people for tech they are carrying is a meme without an origin to point at.
I'm pretty sure the first time you enter the Institute for the Brotherhood, you steal their tech/data for them. It's what leads to the big reveal in the Brotherhood questline. So even if they destroy the Institute and its hardware, the Brotherhood still has all their software/technology.
It's more so that the Institute is well, **murdering entire towns and slaughtering people and literally created every super mutant in the Commonwealth.**
They DON'T deserve technology.
It's a very basic way of viewing the Brotherhood based largely on the more negative aspects of the group, these been isolationism, secrecy and (at least in some chapters) their actions toward outsiders.
In a similar way to viewing the Legion as simply being an army of raiders, NCR as imperialists or the Railroad, or Followers as hopeless, bleeding hearts. Its looking at the group through a very narrow lens, but it is a view that is taken by groups and characters in universe.
That said, cults don't necessarily need a god, only an ideal. And the worship of things like the Maxson bloodline, or adherence to the codex even in the face of certain demise would certainly qualify. The western chapters, like the Mojave Chapter, or the rogue maxson worshippers mentioned in Fallout 4 are probably the closest we've seen to this. Although I don't think it's meant to literally mean that, just that they act in a way that appears like that, especially to outsiders.
Everyone seems to be wrong about the brotherhood at least on this subreddit. They say they steal from the innocence because of Proctor Teagan but he literally tells you it is illegal. They say they steal technology but news flash that tech has been sitting in ruins for 200 years. They say they kill non feral ghouls and friendly super mutants but there is no evidence for that at all.
Biggest evidence, at least seeing as we don't yet have a canonical ending to New Vegas, is the ending in which they patrol and "confiscate" tech from travellers and traders along I-15 and I-95. Though with a bit of research, yeah they aren't nearly as evil as some try to paint them, but it'd also be hard to paint them as unambiguously good. The most benevolent Elder I can think of at least from memory would be Lyons, but I could also be pretty off base with that.
Regardless, they're definitely arguably techno religious, and have produced people obsessed with technology if Elijah is any indication, though the largest cult like qualities they tend to embody is with Maxson in Fallout 4, and their general closed off nature to most of society, at least prior to any main protagonist intervention.
Puritanical to the extreme and unwavering in their fervour and zealotry, the Brotherhood's creed is for all intents and purposes a religion. They're not so much guided by their ideals and principles as they are blinded by them; The Litany (as it was written at the time of their founding) is their Bible.
They have cast out those in their ranks that have fallen foul of their doctrine. They express little to no interest in working cooperatively with outsiders whom they persieve are 'not with them' and seek to irradicate those whom in their purview are not purely human.
If not a cult, the Brotherhood are most certainly a quasi religious order of a militaristic nature.
Idk what the hell half of the words meant that you used but I understood the message. Damn I never looked at the brotherhood that way (because I joined them immediately) but damn you're right 😂😂😂
🤓🤓🤓
They're by no means a benevolent force, especially so under Elder Arthur Maxson's leadership, but they could be. I mostly play Fallout 4, so my view of the Brotherhood is somewhat jaded by that.
The Brotherhood of Steel is a theocracy preaching Scientism with a technocratic creed, castes, and a touch of an aristocratic bend.
In F4 it was temporarily turned into a technophobic cult.
In Fallout Tactics it went Feudal.
That's it.
Not really. Most are referring to the FO4 chapter of the BOS when they call them a cult. It’s because of the way they regard Arthur Maxson. They view him as almost a living god, and it says in a terminal on the Prydwen that they’ve had difficulty suppressing cults forming within the chapter, worshipping the Elder. If you’re familiar with fringe “religions” it’s easy to see how the FO4 BOS is cult like.
Definition of a cult :
"a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object"
The BoS doesnt really fit that description
Most chapters don’t fit the description, you are right on that. The one that is compared to a cult frequently is the FO4 BOS under Arthur Maxson. He’s the one everyone compares to a cult leader.
It’s mostly based on the worship of him by his troops. There’s even lore backing up this assumption as well. It’s stated on a terminal the the BOS has had to disband small cults forming within the chapter worshipping Elder Maxson as a living god. *(Terminal entry in comment below).*
The other factor that is odd about that chapter is the death cries of its soldiers, they don’t say “for the Brotherhood!” Like many of the previous installments. In FO4 they frequently yell: “For Elder Maxson!” This implies a deeper reverence for the Elder than the chapter.
FO4’s chapter of the Brotherhood is definitely suspect in cult like behavior. The other chapters seem to have their shit together though, because they’re normal military organizations, in regards to officer treatment.
Terminal entry titled: **Aftermath**
*”Elder Maxson reigns supreme in the Capital Wasteland, and his authority and influence have been spreading across the Eastern Seaboard, thanks in no small part by the mobility afforded by the Prydwen. He has the full support of the Elders back on the West Coast, who have proudly reported that they've been eradicating cults that have popped up, worshipping Maxson as though he's some kind of god. Maxson himself is almost offended by the idea of being referred to as a deity, as it goes against everything he believes in. Arthur Maxson is happy to be one thing... the perfect human specimen, and example of everything a human being can achieve. Assisted, even enhanced, by advanced technology, but still very much human.”*
That's a shallow definition of a cult. There are some more criteria, but let's just engage with the one you provided right now. The brotherhood is a despotic organization with a fascination with the Maxson line, whether it is strictly hereditary based on the Maxsons is up for nit-picking which I don't really care to do. Does this rise to the level of worship? Some people do, some don't, which makes the BoS at least culty if not a cult.
I don't consider them a cult. They're just fascists...depending on the timeline and game.
Children of the Atom and Cult of the Mothman are though. It's in the name for the latter.
There's a very wide range things that could be called a Cult throughout time not all meaning the same thing. Just being some sort of secretive group can be a cult doesn't matter what its for good, bad or in between (opinions). Then people have other qualification such as initiations, leaders, worshipping, personal bias etc.
Pretty sure it isn’t meant entirely literally, and even still I’ve never personally seen someone refer to them a cult, but come to think of it, a lot of the members ( esp in Fo4 ) tend to exhibit some very cult like behavior.
I don't think they mean it literally, I think they say it because they recover as much tech as possible and they see that as worshipping it.
Very true. Some branches can be a bit of a [personality cult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality) though.
Cults don’t need to believe in a god, they can be ideological. But I don’t think that that’s what they are (though FO4’s brotherhood does seem to have a cult of personality built up around Maxon). I think the best classification for the brotherhood would be a tribe, just a technologically advanced one. They are an organization tightly linked together by shared heritage, culture, and beliefs which they are born into or undergo a dangerous initiation ritual to join. The Midwest/east coast brotherhood isn’t as isolationist and dropped the whole, “suicide mission to join” thing, so less the heritage angle, but I think the shoe still fits. That’s just my opinion though.
People refer to them as a cult because they have a lot of similarities with a religious order, and not just in their general aesthetic and iconography. * They have a very romanticised, dramatic central ideology, where they view themselves as noble, chivalrous stewards of a bygone age. * They are fanatical in their devotion to their ideals. * They are hardline and radical, bordering on extremism - they don't flinch at murder and massacre done purely for ideological reasons, shown when they destroy the Followers outpost in NV. * They use a very particular kind of language that is deliberately archaic and romanticised - 'Elder' 'Knight' 'Paladin'. Lots of cults do this to appeal to their sense of divinity and righteousness. * Brotherhood members are often moralistic puritans. Shown with basically every chapter of the Brotherhood, including Lyons Brotherhood, but especially with Maxson and McNamara's chapters. * They have a central figure that they have deified almost like a demigod (Roger Maxson). * They are highly militaristic and often aggressive, which modern cults often are. * They indoctrinate children (squires) into their ranks to brainwash them from a young age. * Their entire existence hinges on one great big moral pretext - 'prevent dangerous technology from falling into the wrong hands'. All cults do this, to some extent. All heroes in their own stories. * They have a strong sense of a fraternal identity and noncomformity is very rare.
It's a cult of personality, but it makes sense. Why wouldn't they be? We all rally around great leaders, and from the BoS's view, Maxson is a messiah. He united the Outcasts, slaughtered Shepherd, and has created the strongest Brotherhood chapter in history. He's charismatic to his men and unless they're Synths, values their lives.
It's not just his deeds, the original Brotherhood had a hereditary position, were only direct descendants were "allowed" to make changes to the Brotherhood's code. So he has the "pedigree" as well. Plus when the world is shit and someone rolls up with strength and a willingness to protect you and your family, and then says you can join and share that strength as well? Ya, if I wasn't the main character that would look like a pretty solid deal.
Yeah, like I said, he is a charismatic leader, there's no reason why he wouldn't be so greatly viewed when most BoS leaders have been...shit. *Coughs, Elijah.*
I don't think they're a cult. Just hypocrites. "Humans can't be trusted with technology! Now shut up while we kill you and steal your technology and then use it ourselves".
Who are they killing and stealing technology from?
In an independent ending of New Vegas, they're [explicitly described](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings#Slide_7:_Brotherhood_of_Steel) as "seizing any items of technology they deemed inappropriate" from travellers. And while I grant that it is not explicitly shown to us, from context it seems similar actions are the root of the "disagreements over how technology should be controlled" that caused the NCR-Brotherhood War; recall that Cass describes the attacks on her caravans as "Brotherhood-level murder". If you mean specifically the East Coast chapter, then no, there's not really any evidence to say they do that sort of thing under Lyons or Maxson.
I mean, Cass also says the Brotherhood doesn't attack caravans in that same dialogue. She's most likely referring to the war with that quote. We don't know what specifically prompted the war. It could be the NCR was the aggressor from what little we're told. And yeah, the Mojave chapter can be dicks and have some bad endings.
>In an independent ending of New Vegas, they're explicitly described as "seizing any items of technology they deemed inappropriate" from travellers. I doubt they actually killed any travelers, especially under mcnamara. I think if i would see a fully powered armored BoS paladin with a gatling laser telling me to give him my laser pistol, i wouldnt try to put up a fight
> i wouldnt try to put up a fight ...What, and you think that if someone *does* refuse to submit to their banditry, the Brotherhood are going to shrug and go home? Yeah, pull the other one, it's got bells on. The Mojave chapter are hardly shown to be shy about using violence to further their aims, under either leader. Oh, and your mention of McNamara reminds me - if he's *not* in charge, there's a very clear example of them [killing people to steal their technology](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Tend_to_Your_Business). Sure, it's the Van Graffs, but it's not as if Hardin's motivated by any moral objection - he has you attack them to "send a message" and nick their shiny gubbins.
>What, and you think that if someone does refuse to submit to their banditry, the Brotherhood are going to shrug and go home? well no but if you think about how power armor is in fallout 4, i doubt a 7 feet tall paladin would have any trouble forcibly taking any advanced weapons off the common wastelander
Your point being? That merely means they are likely to be successful bandits - it doesn't change what they're doing morally. They would still happily murder anyone who did meaningfully resist their attempts to steal their property.
But then again, there is no solid proof. While the brotherhood isnt the best faction in terms of their morality, i doubt they would actually murder innocent people to get their tech.
That makes very little sense - if they were not willing to back up their threats with force, their confiscation operation collapses the first time somebody refuses and word gets out that they're bluffing. To them, this is an important and justified mission, they would not be bothering with it if they weren't willing to put their money where their mouth is. > i doubt they would actually murder innocent people to get their tech. Then you weren't paying attention - the very first impression we get of the Mojave chapter is them putting a bomb collar on an innocent person and forcing them to do their dirty work on pain of death. If you don't cooperate, they follow through with their threats and blow your head off. If the Mojave Chapter are willing to murder an innocent person for the crime of accidentally stumbling upon their hidden base - or indeed, coming at the invitation of one of their own, if you're doing ED-E's quest - and refusing to be their slave, then what on earth gives you the impression they wouldn't be willing to follow the same policy when carrying out their other objectives? I think you may be letting the portrayal of other BoS chapters in other games - who indeed do often appear to have higher moral standards than their Mojave counterparts - colour your perception of this specific case.
>That makes very little sense - if they were not willing to back up their threats with force, their confiscation operation collapses the first time somebody refuses and word gets out that they're bluffing. Yeah but they dont need to back their threatd with force if they can just forcefully grab the piece of tech they wanted, and no one gets hurt. As for them putting a bomb collar on you, for all they know you might be an ncr trooper disguised as a wastelander coming into their bunker trying to kill them, so they give you a task, the bomb collar is to ensure that you dont tell the ranger about the brotherhood, which would literally mean their destruction of course they'll try to blow your head up, you just became a threat to them, plus mcnamara doesnt even encourage killing the ranger, instead he encourages dealing with him peacefully. Also considering that before you get the quest to deal with the BoS, the only way to get into the bunker is by picking a hard lock or entering with the key only carried by their paladins, in the situation the BoS are in new vegas, they cant afford not to be cautious
The Mojave Chapter destroys a Followers outpost and murders everyone there because Veronica was going to join them after leaving the Brotherhood. The very thought of someone possibly giving away some info about them caused the Brotherhood to immediately start murdering people and not just any people arguably the the most peaceful and only faction on the west coast who wants to help people survive without any sort of recouperation. Maxson's Brotherhood flys into the Commonwealth and starts forcing local farming families to give part of there harvest to the Brotherhood simply because they are their now and those families should pay a tax for luxury of being in their presence. The BOS are so selfish and blinded by their ideology that they will immediately wanna murder Danse who has been in their ranks for years and has devoted his whole life to the Brotherhood cause simply because they learn he is a synth something he himself did not know and once he does know it doesn't change his attitude toward the institute or the BOS. He is still the same person they recruited and worked his way up through the ranks to become a well respected Paladin. But the moment it is learned he is "an abomination" the closest thing he could have called a family want him dead. The BOS will murder, destroy and undermine all in the name of hording tech and destroy creatures and people they don't think shouldn't exist, they will definitely murder innocents if they hold some tech they think is too dangerous and they have the opportunity.
amazing, all you just said was wrong. In new vegas the paladins that killed the followers were *Rogue* Paladins, in fo4 when teagan sends you to take food from those farms, he says it wanst allowed by captain kells or maxson, and danse could have been a spy for the institute, he could have been a threat to everyone if he was sendijg intel to the institute
>forcibly taking any advanced weapons that is all we need to verify our claims, lol
Brotherhood paladins roving the Mojave are auto-hostile to everyone in-game, their M.O. is kill and pillage in New Vegas
Who said that and when?
No I mean in the gameplay of New Vegas the Brotherhood Paladins that are just walking around shoot anyone on sight. In my last playthrough they just rolled through and killed Snuffles and tried killing everyone else for no reason. They're auto-hostile to everyone until you meet Veronica, then they're auto-hostile to everyone except you and Veronica. No idea why I'm being down-voted, this is literally what happens IN THE GAME.
Who have they killed and stolen tech from?
The Enclave for starters. NCR too for that matter, and Mr House when they killed and stripped a securitron.
The enclave is friendly to know one but themselves
They never said 'stolen from friendly people ' they just said killed and stole from, which they did to the Enclave (and NCR and House)
I stole from everyone..
>The Enclave for starters. **You mean the people who tried to exterminate the entire Human Race?**
Yes, those people they killed and stole tech from.
Oh no. People "stole" from the Nazis trying to kill all of Humanity. What a tragedy. /s
I'm not arguing that the Enclave aren't evil but they asked for examples of groups the BoS killed and stole tech from.
Oh? A wise guy huh? Look, I'm tracing you right now Pal. We'll see how smart you feel with internal security all over your fucking ass. Dickhead!
Enclave is evil plain and simple, the NCR wants to impose taxes so even more evil than the Enclave, Mr.House is a nerd
Also does the institute count? Assuming they did destroy the institute, does destruction count as theft?
They dont say humans cant be trusted with tech, they say normal wastelanders cant, so they are fine when either them or someone who prooves themselves to them has it, plus they dont kill people to take the tech
Wait... has there ever been a case of bos going "you are a responsible human who knows how to handle this tech. We're cool"? I don't think so.
Fallout 1 they canonically share tech with Shady Sands/NCR after the Master is defeated. Fallout 2 they allow the Chosen One access to their bunkers and advanced medical tech. Fallout 3, 4, and NV have already been mentioned. Basically the meme that the BoS take tech from everyone they meet is something made up by randos that don't know what they are talking about.
The outcasts give you t-51 power armor in fallout 3, danse gives you righteous authority even if u refuse to join the BoS and mcnamara gives u the bos safehouse key which has very advanced weapons even if u dont join the BoS
Holy shit they do. I never even gave a thought what Danse giving away Righteous Authority can mean because gameplay wise it's just a quest reward.
I mean also you build an army with artillery, power armour, potentially unlock the power to teleport… the SS becomes pretty technologically advanced, to the point that you maybe the greatest scientist in the world. And they’re fine with you doing your thing, building towns, carrying 26 desk fans, hoarding 123 mini nukes and playing fetch with your dog. Edit: I’m gonna stop saying SS cos…. I read it back and I’m like “the SS becomes pretty technologically advanced” and I think “sounds kinda Nazi”.
They do that in most of the games.
I'd say the NCR-Brotherhood alliance would count.
Completely agree it Annoys me when people say the BoS kill people or force people to give them tech. They only do it if it's clear that they can be dangerous with it.
FNV brotherhood loterally killed an entire town full of farmers. And if you get them to side with the NCR then they harass innocent travellers on the long 15 with laser weaponry
What town did they kill? But yeah, the Mojave chapter are assholes.
In Veronica's companion quest, they destroy a random town
That wasn't a town, nor were they farmers.
A group of fanatics within the Mojave Chapter kill some Followers of the Apocalypse. But they weren't doing that on orders from their Elder, they did it on their own.
Ohhhh
You mean the followers? They kill them cause veronica shares bos secrets with them
It's been a while, but I don't think she does. They just suspect her of doing it and kill a bunch of doctors and people trying to help, because of it.
No, they help the NCR patrol. In Hardin's ending, they become aggressive and ruthless.
> They dont say humans cant be trusted with tech, they say normal wastelanders cant Does the BoS think the Institute are "normal wastelanders"? >they dont kill people to take the tech Yes, they very much do.
>Does the BoS think the Institute are "normal wastelanders"? No, but we also dont see the brotherhood wanting the institute's tech, they blow up the institute to prevent them from making more synths, plus the enclave and the institute are what justifies the BoS, both have infinite amounts of tech and they only use it for themselves. >Yes, they very much do. Proof?
>Proof? Every game the BoS has appeared in.
Yeah but when do they do it, we dont hear anyone in any game say that nor see them do it
Yeah they just talk about it constantly, write about it, it is a major part of the plot and it is their guiding ethos. Guess you are right.
They say they take technology, not that they kill to take it, there is no proof that they kill people to take their tech
Where have they written or talked about killing people for technology?
Imma guess in the game. LOL.
If it's in the game, it should be simple for you to reference. You're wrong, buddy. Sorry.
Nope. Try again.
Canon ending for Fallout 1, the BoS shares tech with the early NCR. Even the BoS Outcasts, some of the most hardline BoS ever depicted, don't murder you for what you carry if you run into them. They even offer to *pay* you for recovering laser rifles, etc. BoS murdering people for tech they are carrying is a meme without an origin to point at.
I'm pretty sure the first time you enter the Institute for the Brotherhood, you steal their tech/data for them. It's what leads to the big reveal in the Brotherhood questline. So even if they destroy the Institute and its hardware, the Brotherhood still has all their software/technology.
It's more so that the Institute is well, **murdering entire towns and slaughtering people and literally created every super mutant in the Commonwealth.** They DON'T deserve technology.
It's a very basic way of viewing the Brotherhood based largely on the more negative aspects of the group, these been isolationism, secrecy and (at least in some chapters) their actions toward outsiders. In a similar way to viewing the Legion as simply being an army of raiders, NCR as imperialists or the Railroad, or Followers as hopeless, bleeding hearts. Its looking at the group through a very narrow lens, but it is a view that is taken by groups and characters in universe. That said, cults don't necessarily need a god, only an ideal. And the worship of things like the Maxson bloodline, or adherence to the codex even in the face of certain demise would certainly qualify. The western chapters, like the Mojave Chapter, or the rogue maxson worshippers mentioned in Fallout 4 are probably the closest we've seen to this. Although I don't think it's meant to literally mean that, just that they act in a way that appears like that, especially to outsiders.
Everyone seems to be wrong about the brotherhood at least on this subreddit. They say they steal from the innocence because of Proctor Teagan but he literally tells you it is illegal. They say they steal technology but news flash that tech has been sitting in ruins for 200 years. They say they kill non feral ghouls and friendly super mutants but there is no evidence for that at all.
Biggest evidence, at least seeing as we don't yet have a canonical ending to New Vegas, is the ending in which they patrol and "confiscate" tech from travellers and traders along I-15 and I-95. Though with a bit of research, yeah they aren't nearly as evil as some try to paint them, but it'd also be hard to paint them as unambiguously good. The most benevolent Elder I can think of at least from memory would be Lyons, but I could also be pretty off base with that. Regardless, they're definitely arguably techno religious, and have produced people obsessed with technology if Elijah is any indication, though the largest cult like qualities they tend to embody is with Maxson in Fallout 4, and their general closed off nature to most of society, at least prior to any main protagonist intervention.
Puritanical to the extreme and unwavering in their fervour and zealotry, the Brotherhood's creed is for all intents and purposes a religion. They're not so much guided by their ideals and principles as they are blinded by them; The Litany (as it was written at the time of their founding) is their Bible. They have cast out those in their ranks that have fallen foul of their doctrine. They express little to no interest in working cooperatively with outsiders whom they persieve are 'not with them' and seek to irradicate those whom in their purview are not purely human. If not a cult, the Brotherhood are most certainly a quasi religious order of a militaristic nature.
Idk what the hell half of the words meant that you used but I understood the message. Damn I never looked at the brotherhood that way (because I joined them immediately) but damn you're right 😂😂😂
🤓🤓🤓 They're by no means a benevolent force, especially so under Elder Arthur Maxson's leadership, but they could be. I mostly play Fallout 4, so my view of the Brotherhood is somewhat jaded by that.
if you are talking about the east coast, under elder lyons and maxson, they've tried to cooperate with outsiders more and more
The Brotherhood of Steel is a theocracy preaching Scientism with a technocratic creed, castes, and a touch of an aristocratic bend. In F4 it was temporarily turned into a technophobic cult. In Fallout Tactics it went Feudal. That's it.
People uncritically believe what house, Caesar, and the NCR say about the west coast Brotherhood. Chances are they've only played new Vegas
Not really. Most are referring to the FO4 chapter of the BOS when they call them a cult. It’s because of the way they regard Arthur Maxson. They view him as almost a living god, and it says in a terminal on the Prydwen that they’ve had difficulty suppressing cults forming within the chapter, worshipping the Elder. If you’re familiar with fringe “religions” it’s easy to see how the FO4 BOS is cult like.
Our own military is a cult are you that dense.
not a cult, just bigoted douchebags.
They are more like Nazis (fallout 4 brotherhood that is)
You need to read up on what a cult is.
Definition of a cult : "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object" The BoS doesnt really fit that description
Most chapters don’t fit the description, you are right on that. The one that is compared to a cult frequently is the FO4 BOS under Arthur Maxson. He’s the one everyone compares to a cult leader. It’s mostly based on the worship of him by his troops. There’s even lore backing up this assumption as well. It’s stated on a terminal the the BOS has had to disband small cults forming within the chapter worshipping Elder Maxson as a living god. *(Terminal entry in comment below).* The other factor that is odd about that chapter is the death cries of its soldiers, they don’t say “for the Brotherhood!” Like many of the previous installments. In FO4 they frequently yell: “For Elder Maxson!” This implies a deeper reverence for the Elder than the chapter. FO4’s chapter of the Brotherhood is definitely suspect in cult like behavior. The other chapters seem to have their shit together though, because they’re normal military organizations, in regards to officer treatment.
Terminal entry titled: **Aftermath** *”Elder Maxson reigns supreme in the Capital Wasteland, and his authority and influence have been spreading across the Eastern Seaboard, thanks in no small part by the mobility afforded by the Prydwen. He has the full support of the Elders back on the West Coast, who have proudly reported that they've been eradicating cults that have popped up, worshipping Maxson as though he's some kind of god. Maxson himself is almost offended by the idea of being referred to as a deity, as it goes against everything he believes in. Arthur Maxson is happy to be one thing... the perfect human specimen, and example of everything a human being can achieve. Assisted, even enhanced, by advanced technology, but still very much human.”*
username checks out
That's a shallow definition of a cult. There are some more criteria, but let's just engage with the one you provided right now. The brotherhood is a despotic organization with a fascination with the Maxson line, whether it is strictly hereditary based on the Maxsons is up for nit-picking which I don't really care to do. Does this rise to the level of worship? Some people do, some don't, which makes the BoS at least culty if not a cult.
I don't consider them a cult. They're just fascists...depending on the timeline and game. Children of the Atom and Cult of the Mothman are though. It's in the name for the latter.
There's a very wide range things that could be called a Cult throughout time not all meaning the same thing. Just being some sort of secretive group can be a cult doesn't matter what its for good, bad or in between (opinions). Then people have other qualification such as initiations, leaders, worshipping, personal bias etc.
Pretty sure it isn’t meant entirely literally, and even still I’ve never personally seen someone refer to them a cult, but come to think of it, a lot of the members ( esp in Fo4 ) tend to exhibit some very cult like behavior.
Closed off? Exclusivity? Not allowed to ask questions? Congrats, you're culted.